Blank Page No.19

For this weekend’s blank page we have a moderator debut from Dennis, [i made it to the moderators table, thanks Chloe] with a few old hands (!) also helping out. Thanks to Dwight, Katharina, Bob and Brett. Take it away………

477 Responses to “Blank Page No.19”

  1. 1 Brett
    August 8, 2008 at 19:39

    DENNNNNIIIIISSSSSSSSS with the long time coming! welcome to the moderators table! (Always wanted to say that back) 😛

  2. 2 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 19:40

    Hello every one,

    Hi Dennis, Welcome to the moderators table
    ( I have always wanted to tell you that)
    For the first time you will not have any one to welcome except yourself have fun. 🙂

    Georgia Vs Russia/South Ossetia

  3. 3 Will Rhodes
    August 8, 2008 at 19:58

    Welcome to the table, Dennis – have a good one – you have some great help there, too!

  4. August 8, 2008 at 20:08

    Hi Dennis,

    Welcome aboard. I will be checking the cue when I can.

  5. 6 selena
    August 8, 2008 at 20:13

    Hi Dennis,


    If you need a break, let me know.

    It is SO good to have you moderate.

  6. 7 steve
    August 8, 2008 at 20:15

    Gee, another lying, narcissistic politician. Didn’t see this coming!


  7. 8 Anthony
    August 8, 2008 at 20:29

    So, Operation Brimstone, anyone heard of it, and is it legit??? WWIII anyone???

    I guess it’s saying that the US, France, and the UK are prepairing and practicing to attack Iran.



    -Anthony, LA, CA

  8. August 8, 2008 at 20:31

    DENNIS !!!! :-):-)… Our most beloved college boy !!! :-):-)… Thanks a million for being our moderator over the weekend… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad… PS, Chloe my love, isn’t it Blank Page No. 19 ?!!

  9. 10 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 20:33

    @ Steve

    Don’t worry, others will soon follow suit

    One Man, 86 wives, 170 Children: Order from “God”

    I just check out the BBC Link….i would agree, not to have the many

  10. 11 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 20:39

    @ Lubna, PS, Chloe my love, isn’t it Blank Page No. 19 ?!!

    Thanks for the correction.
    Kindly refresh the page.

  11. August 8, 2008 at 20:52

    @ Steve,

    Do you know what I find more appalling is that this is a major national issue. Every news stations is running it right now. You would think that a bomb exploded somewhere. Every news outlet is “breaking” this story.

    He is not the democratic candidate, he isn’t even the VP. He is a democrat. I think it is understood that they lie about who they have sex with. It is as natural as breathing. They are not out there trying to make laws baring people from having sex out of wed lock.

    This is a non-issue that the over dramatic US rag media will play out instead of concentrating on the real issues of the day. That is because it is hard to understand the substantive issues. They understand “affairs”.

  12. August 8, 2008 at 20:59

    I was happy to see for a minute that CNN did run a story about the weakening of the other major world economies causing a rebound of the US dollar. This has been reflected in the decrease in the price oil. No drilling required. Heck congress left town leaving any hope of opening new reserves to rot until the fall. It seems improving our economy relative to the rest of the world is a better way to combat prices.


  13. 14 Venessa
    August 8, 2008 at 21:01

    Well said Dwight!

  14. August 8, 2008 at 21:04

    Dennis the great welcomer, welcome. @nelsoni, i talked about this man who marry 86 women and have at least 170 children today. I don’t know the rational behind this but this man clearly defy logic. The question i asked today is can this man sexually satisfy all those women?

  15. 16 steve
    August 8, 2008 at 21:05

    @ Dwight

    I’m glad they’re making news of it. The more they expose politicians for being hypocritical, attention seeking, dishonest, narcissists, the sooner people will tire of voting for these fools. ALL politicians are narcissists. You wouldn’t want a narcissist to clean up after your dog let alone lead your nation. Expose these creeps and end their careers.

    Edwards tried to portray himself as some loving, caring husband, dropping out because of his wife’s cancer. Instead, he drops out likely because he got busted cheating on his wife with cancer.

    Scumbag. One politician down, many more to go.

  16. 17 selena
    August 8, 2008 at 21:08

    @ Steve

    Why is this even newsworthy?

    In my opinion; and I said it at the time, what’s appalling is that he used his wife’s cancer to get the sympathy vote. If he had really cared for his wife, he would never have expected, nor let, her campaign for him.

  17. 18 Jens
    August 8, 2008 at 21:08

    Oh dear,

    here go some more god delusional folks…….

    what else can be done in the name of god. i mean we are already on the best way of fugging his aleged creation completly up.

    heck, as long as god told us so……

    Don’t worry, others will soon follow suit

    One Man, 86 wives, 170 Children: Order from “God”

    11 nelsoni

  18. 19 Jens
    August 8, 2008 at 21:11


    how can you sat edwards is not compationate. he helped so many people in malparctice lawsuits, just like so many scumbag lawyers. soon docters will stop treating patients because of fear of being sewed…

  19. 20 steve
    August 8, 2008 at 21:13

    @ Selena

    He’s a narcissist, do you think he cared or even thought to care about anything other than he wants? However with his wife, she probably very well knew what she was getting into when she decided to marry someone with political aspirations (HUGE red flag).

    Great guy, cheats on his sick with cancer wife, thinks he should be president. We need scum like that as President? Too bad he’s not the only one. Politicians are the LAST people we need to run the nation. THis is newsworthy, because now there is one less of them. he’s history. I just hope more of these scumbags get nailed.

  20. 21 Julie P
    August 8, 2008 at 21:13


    Don’t forget, he gets all of us strength from God so he can “control” all of his wives. A man of “enlightenment”.

  21. August 8, 2008 at 21:13

    @Jens, this man has a god that will give him all the mad instructions on earth.

  22. 23 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 21:18

    @ Mohammed Ali.

    That is just pure insanity. Obviously he is not gainfully employed so how can he effectively take care of them? most of them will just grow up to be menace to society. To make every thing more annoying, he says it’s an order from God.

    @ Jens 11 nelsoni? 😯

  23. August 8, 2008 at 21:27

    @steve, have you read about the guy in nigeria who married 86 women and have over 170 children? Edwards had only one affair and has denied the child. What’s wrong with that since he’s not the one vying for the presidency?

  24. 25 Virginia Davis
    August 8, 2008 at 21:30

    My goodness gracious: now it is time to hate all politicians. Insult them individually – John Edwards – insult them as a class of people with a number of nefarious adjectives. Get some knee jerk reactions. Brings to mind the Bard’s condemnation of all lawyers. Ah. Maybe the answer is there. Or maybe it is “Alice in Wonderland?” “Off with their heads! Off with their heads!”

    What about the Clinton’s? They are both lawyers and politicians and from the latest news spins seem intent on producing a weird Democratic Convention. But that’s OK because they are politicians, this isn’t out country, and oh yes they began as lawyers.

    Does the blog enable people with bad livers and upset stomachs to vent on particular groups of people? Is it such a gross world that we just have to dump on some individual or group of people and go “Tsk. Tsk.” “Did you see….?”

    I don’t know. I am going to go have a glass of milk and some cookies and see if my TV will allow me to watch any of the Olympics or see any more security-crazed Chinese men (has anyone seen any women?) marching around.

    Fat/Obese Virginia in Oregon

  25. August 8, 2008 at 21:33

    We all supported Korsovo to gain independent from Serbia against the will of the Serbian people and the Russians. Why can’t we support South Ossetia in her bid to gain independence from Georgia. Are we continuing our double standards on this issue again?

  26. 27 steve
    August 8, 2008 at 21:40

    @ Virginia

    Do you honestly think the politicians of today would be running for power if rules forbad their photograph from being taken or given ANY attention by the media? They would go insane. That’s what narcissists do. Politics today is like a Homecoming King/Queen competition. It’s a popularity contest for adults. ALL politicians are naricissists. To want to be in politics makes one narcissistic. Ever notice that politicians always make promises they fail to deliver on, they constantly lie? That’s what narcissists due, they lack a conscience. Look at them, they’re all scumbags.

  27. 28 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 21:43

    @ Mohammed Ali

    As a student of International relations and all that is related with it, I can boldly say with out contradiction the International system, community or what ever we choose to call it, is riddled with double standards. If it does not affect your interests, you look the other way.

  28. August 8, 2008 at 21:48

    I’m disappointed in John Edwards. Will we see him at the convention? Will we see his brave wife?

    Then we have Billary who won’t let go. Did the U.S. want to see Bill the Philanderer back strolling the halls of the White House? I don’t! I find that notion absurd.

    My hope is that the U.S. will turn the page on all of these pampered narcissists.

  29. August 8, 2008 at 21:49

    A preacher wanted a girl and the girl refused. After a week or so while preaching, he said that the holy spirit revealed to him that the girl should accept his luv cuz they were destined to be future partners. That was amusing to me. Holy spirit now revealing who should become partner to the other.

  30. 31 Bryan
    August 8, 2008 at 21:51

    A leader should be a cut above the rest – stronger, more confident, more able to handle heavy pressure. But it’s as least as important that he/she should be principled, and thus able to command respect.

    Is Bill Clinton, for example, worthy of respect for having affairs with young women, when he should have been dealing with the weighty affairs of state, and then lying about them?

    Well, I guess we get the leaders we deserve. Millions of Americans are currently approaching a state of euphoria at the idea of Obama becoming president. But this is a man who’s wife was apparently never proud to be an American, even though the country gave her every opportunity she could possibly want, and a man who had a deep friendship for decades with a violently racist preacher and regularly attended his sermons. Frankly, I wouldn’t trust Obama to manage a hot dog stand on a New York street corner, let alone the greatest country on earth.

    Anyone know any real political leaders out there? People with principles, strength of character and the courage of their convictions? People who are not exclusively out for themselves? There used to be, but I’m battling to think of any currently in positions of power. Actually, Angela Merkel comes to mind, but she is a woman. What about the men?

  31. 32 Venessa
    August 8, 2008 at 21:54

    portlandmike ~

    Highly unlikely to get rid of these narcisstic messes unless more people care.

  32. August 8, 2008 at 21:55

    @nelsoni, at times double standards can be costly. That’s why there is always problem. I think Georgia should allow South Ossetia to gain independent.

  33. August 8, 2008 at 22:05

    Again, did anybody see the price of oil is down, the value or the dollar is up, They are near signing an agreement to pull out troops from Iraq, Russia and Georgia (the country not the state) are at war, and Paris Hilton made a political commercial.

  34. August 8, 2008 at 22:06

    @Bryan, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf of Liberia is a great leader. I think Obama will make a good leader for your country. If you are looking for a pure politician, then you’ll have to get some angels from the outer space.

  35. 36 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 8, 2008 at 22:08

    Good afternoon from Monterrey, Mexico!

    About John Edwards

    I personally despise any person that cheats on his/her partner in any circumstance. I think it is the ultimate form of betrayal in a love relationship.

    But what I despise more is the “double standard”…

    You said: “ALL politicians are naricissists. To want to be in politics makes one narcissistic.”

    I think you are right, although the word ALL is a little bit strong. Maybe it is more appropiate to use THE MAJORITY or ALMOST ALL.

    And don´t get me wrong… I don´t usually like politicians. I work for one, he is nice, but has a big ego.

    About politicians´ wives… they usually know what they are getting into and really don´t care about it… many of them are trophy wives.

  36. August 8, 2008 at 22:16

    Hi Bryan,

    I think if you ask most black Americans if they are “proud to be an American?” Most will give you a raised eyebrow, because as a group they have suffered at the hands of government of the whites for many centuries. And even now when they have been called everything from slurs in my lifetime, to Negro, to Blacks, and now they are called African Americans as some pc stretch of the language.

    I forgive Michelle. I believe she meant to say that, “I have never been so proud to be an American.” I don’t blame her because I haven’t either.

  37. 38 Bryan
    August 8, 2008 at 22:18

    Mohammed Ali August 8, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    Another great leader who is a woman? Benazi Bhutto could also probably be considered one of the greats. What about the men?

    I’m not American.

  38. 39 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 22:19

    @ Mohammed Ali.

    Double standards are always costly. That’s one major cause of conflicts World wide

  39. 40 dennisjr30
    August 8, 2008 at 22:31

    Hi Everyone, my name is Dennis and I am very sorry for not being around, when the BLOG for this weekend started!

    Friday, was my last night for the Summer Semester in the Residence Hall @ Onondaga Community College, in Syracuse, New York… I will be returning on 31 August 2008 for the fall semester…

    I am from Madrid, St. Lawrence County in New York…

    I will be studying for a POLITICAL SCIENCE degree…

  40. August 8, 2008 at 22:31

    @ Venessa,

    I just want to be done with Billary… I kind think Sharpton and Jessie Jackson will lose big time also if Obama win. That will be a blessing!

  41. 42 Bryan
    August 8, 2008 at 22:32

    portlandmike August 8, 2008 at 10:16 pm,

    America has come a long way since the days of Martin Luther King with his dream now practically realised. (I agree that “African American” is PC.) Blacks now have nothing at all standing in their way except themselves. For how much longer can people look back at past injustices?

    I don’t agree about Michelle Obama. Her statement was very clear and everyone knew exactly what she meant. It was as if the only way white America could atone for the past was to nominate a black man for president. This playing on white guilt is ridiculous and it really is high time it stopped.

    Race aside, Obama is likely to get in because people want change and he’s much younger and more dynamic than McCain. Image is important in politics and people are fooled by it. Sad, but true.

  42. 43 Dennis
    August 8, 2008 at 22:34

    Hi, everyone…
    I am here @ approxiametly 5.30pm eastern standard time !

    Sorry for the lastness, i was unpacking.

  43. August 8, 2008 at 22:37

    @Bryan, i’m a man who frankly have learned to beleive in the ability of women to lead than that of men. Yes Ellen is a great woman leader who is helping Liberia to recover from 14yrs of civil war.

  44. 45 Bryan
    August 8, 2008 at 22:43

    Mohammed Ali August 8, 2008 at 10:37 pm,

    Well, that is good news.

  45. August 8, 2008 at 22:45

    @ Bryan,

    I too believe that most racist impediments for blacks in America have been removed. However, you need to be Obama’s age or younger to reap that reward, and many can’t get it because of the “bad karma” from the parenting they received from parents that were held back during their best years.

  46. 47 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 22:45

    @ Mohammed Ali.

    Women could be good leaders but they could also screw up big time

  47. 49 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 8, 2008 at 22:59

    Welcome Dennis!!! Enjoy moderating… it is really fun!

  48. August 8, 2008 at 22:59

    @nelsoni, yes women leader can screw up big times in instances. Men leaders often screw up big, big time. I’ve not heard of a woman dictator, has anyone heard of that?

  49. August 8, 2008 at 23:07

    @nelsoni, Dr. Dora has great courage and strength. I’m sure she’ll not be tempted by corruption but the men will try undermining her.

  50. 52 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 8, 2008 at 23:08

    Well, women have not had many chances to screw up big time! We have been grossly underrepresented in politics around the world.

    I could not accert that women are better leaders (or less worse) than men. I have met women in power that are mean and selfish. The worst boss that I have had in my life is a woman. However, there are great women leaders. It is not a gender issue, but rather a personality issue.

  51. August 8, 2008 at 23:08

    Blank page No.19, i expect a plethora of comments this weekend; a splendid and wonderful ceremony in Beijing. The Olympic has began. The American Elections: Obama’s changes vs McCain’s experiences and many other thought provoking issues. Mods over to you.

  52. 54 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 8, 2008 at 23:08

    I will check out what BLANK PAGE we are currently on..

    To everyone concerned: Chloe is correct we are currently on
    BLANK PAGE 19.

  53. 55 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 23:16

    @ Dennis, Chloe made an error. She initially posted Blank page number 18 until Lubna pointed it out so I made the correction. cheers

  54. August 8, 2008 at 23:17

    @ Luz Ma, i must say that your personality premise is very salient. Be a man or woman leader, it depends to a larger extent on the character and idiosyncrasy of who is leading.

  55. 57 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 8, 2008 at 23:22

    Thanks Nelsoni,

    I was concerned and wanted to inquire!

    Thanks again!

  56. 58 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 23:24

    @ dennis

    you are welcome.

    enjoy moderating

  57. August 8, 2008 at 23:32

    Many leaders have screwed up because of the chemistry people around: opportunists, sycophants, saboteurs, all seeking to push their own agenda.

  58. 60 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 23:34

    @ Sheikh Kafumba Dukuly

    Actually it’s over to you. you can suggest topics for discussion while the mods keep an eye on the conversations.

  59. 61 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 8, 2008 at 23:42

    It is sad that John Edwards, had an extra-martial affair…But he should be more TRUTHFUL and HONEST during his time in the campaign trail.

  60. 62 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 23:48

    @ Shiekh, Any Leader who sets with an agenda of good governance will not be distracted unless he allows himself to be.

  61. 63 Venessa
    August 8, 2008 at 23:52

    portlandmike ~

    It certainly will be a blessing if Sharpton and Jessie Jackson are finally gone.

    Bryan ~

    I think you’re right about Obama vs. McCain. I think one of my husbands comments last night when they were showing some coverage of him was… “what a tool.” It seems McCain at this point is trying too hard to be cool and his humor has not been well received.

  62. August 8, 2008 at 23:52

    Sure had this inner thought that nelsoni was watching me with his ubiquitous eyes. Nelsoni, is there a hereafter or a day of judgment? Without burying our heads into the scriptures. Is there any physical evidence or logic backdrop to support the end of time?

  63. 65 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 8, 2008 at 23:55

    I know, i have NO ONE else to welcome…

    But here is a try! and please comment on!

    Welcome Dennis, following a long HOT summer in
    Syracuse, I have a VACATION.

  64. August 8, 2008 at 23:55

    Hey our beloved Dennis ! :-)… So you’re studying to get a degree of political sciences eh ?! All the very best my good friend ! :-)… Hi my dearest Bryan… So you’re not American… Well, that sounds quite interesting… You do have an American style in writing… Are you British ?! No I guess, because your writing style isn’t British… Anyway, there’s one thing that I’d love to ask all of you guys about : AUTISM… Does any of you guys have or know a friend or a relative who has an autistic child ?! If yes then could you kindly describe to us how the experience is really like ?! How are autistic children treated in your country by their families, the government, and the civil society ?! What kind of health care and education are being offered to them where you live ?! I’d really love to hear the topic of “autism” being discussed on air on WHYS or even making the core of a documentary on the BBC WS Radio at some point in the near future Inshallah, and why not ?! What do you guys think ?! With my love… Yours forever, Lubna…

  65. 67 Rick
    August 8, 2008 at 23:58

    It has taken less than 24 hours for Russia to claim that ethnic cleansing is going on in Georgia. Seems to be the new catch all excuse for invasion. That and Hitler’s excuse that their own nationals must be protected.

  66. 68 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 8, 2008 at 23:58

    Hi, my beloved friend…Lubna…

    i loved international politics and current affairs and i am trying to my international affairs degree.

  67. August 8, 2008 at 23:58

    @ Dennis,

    Do you think John Edwards will be at the convention, or is he shamed off the stage? I sure don’t care what he has to say any longer.

  68. August 9, 2008 at 00:00

    @ Nelsoni, an agenda is a blue print that is usually deliberated and finalized. Technocrats and advisers to leaders are asked to advance a way forward for these agenda issues to be achieved. At this point and at times, ill-fated advisement may be offered.

  69. 71 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 00:00

    portlandmike ~

    “However, you need to be Obama’s age or younger to reap that reward, and many can’t get it because of the “bad karma” from the parenting they received from parents that were held back during their best years.”

    I don’t disagree totally with this assertion but then you can say that the generation with the bad parenting are just going to carry it on as well regardless if they have been afforded the more opportunities. I have black friends that say it’s blacks standing in their own way.

  70. 72 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 00:01

    To answer PortlandMike question:

    I honestly think, John Edwards, “MAYBE” at the Convention…But i think following the recent “hours”….

    He may take some FRIENDLY advice and not talk at the convention.

  71. 73 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 00:05

    @ Sheikh Kafumba Dukuly:

    I just found one of your post in the “SPAM” folder…

    I am VERY SORRY for not getting it …

    Please accept my apologies.


  72. August 9, 2008 at 00:05

    Nelsoni, please check for my posts. I guess they being picked up as spams. Thanks

  73. 75 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 00:08

    @ Sheik. Thats why its important to have versatile leaders. In between. I told you posts loves the spam filter. Our Mod for the night just confirmed it again. 🙂

  74. 76 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 00:10


    If Edwards has any shred of decency left, he would remove himself from the speakers list, if he is a speaker.

  75. August 9, 2008 at 00:13

    OK Dennis. A guy raised two issues with me the other day: The Justice of God and Whether end time has an empirical bearing. He spoke of GOD CHOSEN PEOPLE and scorned predestination as an injustice.

  76. 78 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 00:13

    Hi Lubna ~

    I know several people with children or siblings that have Autism. All are very different cases. 2 of them will never live on their own. Both are in their 20’s and very dependent on their families much like a toddler. Also each of their family situations is very different, but all of them do live with their parents. As far as I know there hasn’t been trouble with healthcare and they all are enrolled in programs that help them cope or learn.

    It takes a toll on these families but they are all very dedicated to their children/siblings. I couldn’t imagine having a child dependent for the rest of my life and have to worry what will happen to them when I pass on. One of the girls that has autism has a friend that is also autistic and his family has agreed to take her when her mother passes away.

  77. 79 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 00:14

    @ Sheikh. About the hereafter or day of judgement, I will answer this way. A natural man will not understand spiritual things because they would sound foolish since they may not always be explained by physical events. Man tends to subject every thing to science (which is good away) but there are things even science can not reveal.

  78. 80 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 00:16

    Sheikh ~

    I just pulled 2 comments by you out of the spam folder….Who did you irritate at WHYS? 😉

  79. 81 Virginia Davis
    August 9, 2008 at 00:19


    I’m sorry but I just can’t accept your blanket statements. I don’t really hold “group”
    opinions of individuals. You obviously do. Perhaps it makes your life easier.


    I had the pleasure of being a 4 hour weekly counselor to a young autistic boy in the late 70’s. He lived at St. George Homes in Berkeley, California. His only verbalization was to sing snatches of “Dominique, the Singing Nun” which is a lovely old pop tune. We got along well.

    Virginia in Oregon

  80. August 9, 2008 at 00:26

    Venessa, my PC is in disrepair. Most of my posts is done via my 5310 Nokia. I guess it is infected. Please keep an eye in that spam folder for me. Anyway, gracias senorita.

  81. 83 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 00:27

    John Edwards
    He admitted his wrondgoing to his wife and apologised. She forgave him. they moved on. Why don’t we move on, as well? Stupid useless sex-obsessed media; stupid sex-obsessed numb-skulls who buy it. What do you think killed Diana? Who next?

  82. 84 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 00:32

    @ Vannesa ” Who did you irritate at WHYS” Good question. Because Sheikh’s posts all end up in spam. Since I started moderating, I doubt if any of his comments has made it directly to the moderation queue. Don’t worry Sheikh, nothing, not even the spam filter will prevent you from having your say

  83. August 9, 2008 at 00:33

    Nelsoni, in your view, who do you consider GOD CHOSEN PEOPLE?

  84. August 9, 2008 at 00:39

    @ Venessa,

    I hold this idea that bad parenting passes from generation to generation, and that it often takes a lucky break to free oneself from passing on to your kids all of your own bad habits. Trying to enlighten others about what I think is good parenting is almost impossible. It’s like everyone believes that they know how to parent a priori. “My parents spanked me, and I turned out fine!” “I grew up with out a father. Heck, I never met the guy, and I turned out fine.” “None of us are perfect!” “Children are so resilient!” “Children need to know who is boss.” And my favorite… “Spare the rod, spoil the child.”

  85. 87 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 00:40

    @ Sheik. I dont think its your Phone’s fault, it may have to do with the url on your profile. I am not exactly used to sitting down in front of a PC for long periods, so I blog and moderate with my PDA most times, I have no problems with spam. I think Mohammed Ali also blogs from his mobile he too has no problems with spam. So maybe you should do something about the website link. About God’s chosen people, I really do not have a straight answer at this time.

  86. 88 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 00:45

    portlandmike ~

    I couldn’t agree with you more about that. I find myself doing some of the things I absolutely despised about my own mother. Unless you’re self aware or somehow enlightened it’s very hard to overcome.

  87. 89 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 00:45

    @ Sheikh Kafumba Dukuly:

    As being the moderator on duty, this weekend–i will keep an eye
    out for your messages.

    @ Autism story:

    This past few weeks at OCC [where i am currently, minus the vacation]….They are hosting persons with many forms of disabilities.

    I think that they NEED help, and given the resources to deal with this issue.

  88. 90 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 00:46

    Sheikh ~

    Happy to help keep an eye out for your posts.

  89. 91 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 00:47

    As i am representing the WORLD HAVE YOUR SAY programme, this weekend!

    i am not upset with anything that Sheikh Kafumba Dukuly has said in any of his posting…



  90. 92 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 00:47

    Sure Dennis….Sure…..

  91. 93 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 00:48

    @ Portland Mike *applause* If parents world wide don’t spare the rod, far more kids would turn out to be responsible people in future but hey we live in a hi tech world. One guy in my neighbourhood sued his Dad for assault after he refused to spare the rod regarding a few indiscretions.

  92. 94 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 00:50


    Welcome to the world of moderating. I know you will do great.

    @ Russia invading Georgia,

    It isn’t that South Ossetia is trying to become an independent state. Apparently most of the people that live there feel that they are really Russian, not Georgian. They have had problems there for a long time and the Russian government decided they wanted to “liberate” those being oppressed. I do find it odd that the current U.S. administration is concerned that a country has invaded another sovereign nation…..

    Amy in Beaverton

  93. 95 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 00:52

    portlandmike & nelsoni ~

    I can tell you some doozies about children calling the police on their parents because they weren’t allowed to go out with their friends. It’s unbelievable what parents let their children get away with. Any friends of mine that have bratty children that don’t listen will not see me unless it’s a child free outing. However, the friends I have with well behaved children are always invited over and when I visit their parents I typically spend a little time playing with them.

  94. 96 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 00:52

    I would like to THANK very much the moderators, who were kind enough to fill in for me, when i was coming home..

  95. 97 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 00:52


    How was your vacation?

  96. 98 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 00:57

    @ Vanessa,

    Thanks for asking 🙂 We had fun during our trip to my mother’s and in Canada. But it is nice to be home. I am finally seeing the end of laundry and can take on cleaning the house. I hope my girls behaved fairly well when we met up. I know they enjoyed meeting you (you gave them treats!! Always a plus) as did I.

    I would encourage any WHYS family member to meet up with each other whenever the opportunity arises. I know that I look forward to someday meeting all of you.


  97. 99 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 01:05

    Amy ~

    We’ll have to get portlandmike on board and I know there are a few others around here….

    I’m glad your vacation went well. Were you able to listen to any WHYS programs? And yes, your girls are very nice. I liked them both!

  98. 100 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 01:07


    it is nice that you had a nice vacation….i will have my
    vacation…for 3 weeks.

    The WHYS Family: i think that it is a VERY good idea!


  99. 101 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 01:09

    About the AUTISM story:

    I did a little research:

    I found this link:



  100. 102 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 01:19

    @ Vanessa. Nice point. Poor parenting forms the core of anti-social behavior in the UK and probably else where. Most of these kids come from broken homes or homes where their parents can not enforce basic discipline.

  101. 103 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 01:22

    @ Amy, WHYS family, cool. How about convening a WHYS congress some time in the near future? That should be a great meeting point for the WHYS family.

  102. 104 Robert Evans
    August 9, 2008 at 01:28

    Nelsoni I happily agree because when young kids are wandering outside unsupervised.

    Question: Where are the parents

    Answer: In the pub

  103. 105 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 01:30


    If a WHYS congress/convention is organized, I am there! I think the perfect place would be at Bush House in London.

  104. 106 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 01:34

    Dennis ~

    Thanks. One of my friends daughters has high functioning autism. She was 2 1/2 before she even spoke and that was only after they got a dog. It seemed to bring her out of her shell. She can’t handle changes in routine and has extreme anxiety if she is separated from her mother and shuts down completely around strangers. She is an extremely beautiful, amazingly smart and precosious little 4 year old. I spent a week helping her mom out with child care for her and her older sister. Fortunately I’m on the top of her list of cool people along with her mom and dad.

  105. 107 jamily5
    August 9, 2008 at 01:34

    There are many characteristics that all autistic children may share.
    But, autism is a wide spectrum.
    There are some who are autistic who are academically sound.
    Their autism, for the most part, effects their emotional and social development.
    There are those who have mental deficiencies along with their autism.
    when one has mental challenges along with their autism, they fair a bit worse… … as always.
    Some think that autism is a genetic mutation and some think that it has to do with high levels of lead or other chemicals in the blood which might be caused by some immunizations.
    People don’t really understand autism and there are a few different theories on how to handle this disability.
    Autism is not mental retardation.
    Many think that it is.
    There are so many sites that I could point you to.
    But, I will tell you this, also.
    it is difficult to diagnose autism and should not be diagnosed before the child has turned five or six.
    Some therapists are quick to label a child autistic and this is not at all the correct diagnosis.
    I don’t want to overwhelm you with sites.
    Maybe I will find your blog and try to send you a private message.
    If this is a personal issue, maybe we could speak privately.
    Oh, the BBC has done some reports on autism.
    They also had a couple of autistic children and their parents on a show.
    One woman was from France.
    I can’t remember the show’s name, though.
    Are you or someone close to you personally looking for resources?
    or, are you just genuinely interested in the topic?

  106. 108 jamily5
    August 9, 2008 at 01:36

    Now I know who to blame if my message does not make it on the blog!!!
    Congrats and Good luck.

  107. 109 jamily5
    August 9, 2008 at 01:42

    And, that is my point, Vanessa.
    Not speaking much and being rather shy around others and a bit socially inept is a characteristic of autism.
    But, some therapists are quick to find that particularly characteristic and name it “autism,” without ruling out such things as “selective mutism.”
    Some autistic people… … many of them, have some sensory integration issues.
    But, you can have the latter without being the former.
    We all have to be careful about labels, especially when labeling a small child.
    Labels, whether we like to admit it or not, have a profound effect on people, especially children.

  108. 110 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 01:46

    @ Amy. Lets keep our fingers crossed and hope a WHYS convention/congress sees the light of the day

  109. 111 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 01:49

    @ Robert Evans. Former British prime minister Tony Blair proposed some thing like parenting classes for deficient parents. I don’t know what became of that proposal. Because some parents would really need some of those classes.

  110. 112 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 01:50

    Jamily5 ~

    Yes I agree about my friend’s younger child. She and I have talked about it and she’s not convinced yet and I can see why. She’s had a few doctors that have said it but I think I’m on the fence too. She has an advanced vocabulary and play skills; you wouldn’t even think she is 4. Most of the children she likes to play with are a few years older and she doesn’t lose patience with them.

  111. 113 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 01:52


    Perhaps, we could have the WHYS meet at Parliament Square. The last time I was there, which was in May with perfect weather, there are the flags of many nations flying around the square.

  112. 114 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 01:53

    nelsoni ~

    As a CASA volunteer and getting an intimate knowledge of how foster children are taken care of; many times parents don’t care if they get their children back. The court often orders services to be taken and if the parents don’t take them their only punishment is not getting their children back.

  113. 115 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 01:58

    @ Vanessa. Such attitudes by “parents” lends credence to the fact that such people stumbled in to parenthood and don’t deserve to be called parents.

  114. 116 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 02:03

    @ Julie P. That would be great. A WHYS congress in Parliament Square. Let’s just hope that there no essays this weekend or else the WHYS team would just skim through this page without taking note of important points like this; similar to what happened to last weekend’s blank page.

  115. August 9, 2008 at 02:08

    long post but it has to be, so i will split up.

    @ Racism and black opportunities.

    I just had a very long conversation with a co-worker about this topic this AM. To explain my position I had to explain two indisputable facts.

    1) the country was founded by two totally separate cultures of people. the first was a group of ambitious and hearty soles that took a chance to cross a great distance on the oceans with very bad odds of dying on the way. They did this because they were not content with the life and opportunities they had in their home land. they had e belief that on the other side there was a better life if they were willing to work for it. The second culture was plucked from their native land where even to this day many of their descendants are quite happy living in mud huts and trading dog’s teeth for wives. They were not cut from the same cloth as the more dominate majority culture. This is a trait programmed in them through the generations. That is what is meant when they say, “you don’t understand the black culture.”

  116. 118 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 02:09

    Maybe we can repeatedly mention a WHYS congress so that it gets noticed on Monday morning. I know it will never happen, but wouldn’t it be great if the BBC could pick up our plane tickets 🙂

  117. 119 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 02:09


    Let’s do it! I’m putting in for May. I had the BEST weather last May. It was picture perfect. Sigh. It should be like that year round all over the world. 🙂

  118. August 9, 2008 at 02:10

    @ Racism and black opportunities. -continued

    2) the second truth is that a little over 120 years ago 12.5% of the population were slaves. On the day they were freed, 12.5% of the population became unemployed. They were not only unemployed, uneducated, but destitute poor, unwanted, and considered something less then human by the majority. There were unable and not allowed to even gain wealth in most cases. So their only comfort was to group together in places where they were allowed to , and they only learned what little they could teach each other. They had developed a huge distrust for their white oppressors. Many felt injustices that had to be resolved before they could forgive them. They openly felt this oppression until 1965 when the last of the Jim Crow Laws were struck down. To this day I know people who openly ask realtors if there are “any black people living in a neighborhood” before they will consider buying a house.

    One last fact. There is two ways to make a bad choice. One is to consciously make it. The other is to not know you have any other choice. Kids that living the projects never see an “unsucessful drug dealer.” They are either dead or in jail. Kids from poor neighborhoods never see sucessful people that make it out, because they leave. They see their parents working their hard to still be behind in bills, and they see the people who are selfish and just taking what they want living much hapier lives. They don’t easlly see the choice of staying in school and getting educated as an option. There are no tangible roll models for them.

    That is as short as one could make that description of the situation. lots was left out to the point it might be misinterpreted.

  119. 121 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 02:10

    nelsoni ~

    Indeed! It’s just one more reason I get frustrated with people against abortion. There are THOUSANDS of kids that are unwanted, without homes, parents or families that love them. Until they are all adopted then I think people need to get over themselves (or superior religious beliefs), mind their own business and quit adding to the problem by trying to force people into having an unwanted child.

  120. 122 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 02:13

    @ WHYS congress in Parliament Square

    I’m on board….What’s the agenda since we get to set it? 🙂

  121. 123 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 02:18

    @WHYS Congress Agenda,

    On the agenda will be environmental issues, like the Brazilian rain forest, the Everglades, the Great Lakes, and other places of importance.

  122. 124 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 02:21

    @ Amy,Julie P, & Vanessa, I am fairly optimistic it could become reality. If the WHYS community speak with one voice regarding a congress, there is no way we would be ignored. At best, an excuse could come for not it being able to take place. But I think now is a good time to start pushing for it so they can include it in next year’s budget 😉 and plans. Then from there, we can set the agenda.

  123. 125 Shaun in Halifax
    August 9, 2008 at 02:25

    Here’s a thought that occurred to me while I was watching the opening ceremonies:

    Have the Beijing Olympics just set a precedent? It seems to me that the Chinese Gov’t has proven to the world what a sham the IOC really is. They agreed to all sorts of concessions to actually get awarded the game, but have followed through with… let me count…. NONE.

    I suppose the lesson here is you can lie like a politician and never be called to account.

  124. 126 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 02:27

    @ Venessa, about abortion/unwanted kids/ bad parenting, I think the root causes of unwanted pregnancies should be addressed. People should be taught that if they are not ready for kids then they should takes steps to avoid pregnancy in the first place.

  125. 127 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 02:35

    @ WHYS Forum:


    If we start and send message to Ros and the WHYS team
    in London…

  126. 128 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 02:38

    Dwight ~

    I think your point was concise and to the point and I don’t think I misinterpret it.

    My frustration with growing up in less than ideal conditions is that I did too and too often people use it as an excuse to remain in squalor. In my opinion there is something innate in an individual that may allow them to emerge as a prosperous person. I also think it’s a matter of a positive influence getting a hold of that person in time to nurture whatever it is that will give them motivation to rise up before they have gone too far down a path that they don’t know how to return from.

    I am born white trailer trash with all the cliché trimmings that go with it. I have seen several people pull themselves up out of the rubbish that their life began in and do something worthwhile. Of course these people aren’t saints or without problems but they are definitely functioning and contributing members of society and not adding to the social issues that our society is plagued with.

  127. 129 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 02:39

    I know, i am going off the track a little bit….let me indulge myself!

    the below text: is from Chloe to me [7 August 2008]
    Good luck and thanks again. If you hit 200 comments I’ll be seriously impressed.

  128. 130 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 02:42


    We’re well on our way. We’re already at 129 comments, plus mine. Let’s go for 300 non essay comments this weekend! 😉

  129. 131 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 02:44

    nelsoni ~

    You make a great point. Education is always key but everyone is afraid to just be straight. It’s religion, personal bias, fear that knowing about it will make someone do it, etc. It just spirals down from there.

  130. 132 Virginia Davis
    August 9, 2008 at 02:48

    Dwight in Cleveland:

    re education and racism – Perhaps you did not see the Oprah show this week illustrating the terrible state of high schools in the US. For about 20 minutes a
    comparison of an inner city Chicago school and a counterpart in a (white) suburb.
    It was disturbing to say the least. The black kids were nice and said: it’s good you all have a nice school and good classes – we wish we had the same. The statistics were disturbing in comparison. It all went with a TIME magazine poll with a cover story titled: DropOut Nation. Bill and Melinda Gates were there, as well, going Tsk Tsk we have to do something and a website: http://www.standup.org to get concerned people organized. For all three: the poor quality of US education for ALL children is the problem, after global warming.

    Virginia in Oregon

  131. 133 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 02:49

    Julie P:

    Made a beautiful point and something that Ros and the WHYS staff, have said several times recently and, i am going to say it!

    About ESSAYS comments, with all due respect…i plan on my for college….not for WHYS.

  132. 134 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 02:50


    I read your comment about your background and then your latest concerning being straight. Twice in the latter comment you mentioned fear. I think you hit the nail on the head, changing your circumstances; the courage to change, having walked through it yourself, you know it can be done, but then there is that element of fear. That’s a big one. You’ve done, I know I’ve done it, but there are those who have not. That’s a big one. Finding that certain something, reaching down, grabbing it, and then doing it takes courage.

  133. 135 Bob in Queensland
    August 9, 2008 at 02:51

    Good morning All!

    I’m still reading in and consuming tea, but just wanted to mention THIS STORY which I first heard yesterday on the World Service but forgot to mention!

    It seems Shimon Peres has written some pro-peace song lyrics, posted them on a site for composers, and one of the ones to write music for him was an Iranian. I’m not naive enough to read any lasting peace into this, but I thought it was fun!

    Oh, and welcome to the moderators’ table, Dennis. Make sure you use a coaster…Chloe hates rings on the wood!

  134. 136 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 02:52


    I save my soliloquies for my blog.

  135. August 9, 2008 at 02:54

    Amy sez, .. It isn’t that South Ossetia is trying to become an independent state. Apparently most of the people that live there feel that they are really Russian, not Georgian.

    South Ossetia does not really want independence, any more than Kosovo is, or Texas did in 1835. Just as Texas became part of the US just 10 years later, Kosovo would become part of Albania, and South Ossetia would be joined to North Ossetia.

    It’s true, the Ossetians considers themselves more Russian than Georgian, but it’s not like they just moved there 50 years ago during Soviet rule. They have been there since the 13th century, and if they want to be a Russian republic, it’s their decision (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/3797729.stm).

    Speaking of Georgia, Abkhazia does not want to be part of Georgia either, and it was only made part of Georgia by Stalin in 1931.

  136. 138 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 02:57

    JulieP ~

    You’re absolutely right that it’s scary for these people. I am so worried about my kiddos that I volunteer for and all I want to do is shake them like mad and tell them they have a real chance but they’ve only got one life and better get going! Grrrrr!

    husband went to his brothers for the weekend….I get to glue myself to the computer. What an exciting Friday eh!?! 🙂

  137. 139 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 02:57

    @ Bob in Queensland, Thanks for the kind words! And yes, i will be using a Coaster [Chloe hates rings on the wood]

  138. 140 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 03:14


    My Friday isn’t any better. I worked late tonight and was the last person in the office. I had half my shrimp fried rice from lunch at my desk and decided to eat it. I started choking, literally. There was not a soul around to help me. While I sit had my faculties together, I ran out of the office and started looking for someone, anyone, to help me. Eventually the situation corrected itself, but I do not feel well tonight. So, like you, I’m at home in front of the computer.

  139. August 9, 2008 at 03:15

    @ nelsoni,

    You may have misinterpreted my comments about parenting… I am completly opposed to ever hitting, spanking, smaking, jerking (or shaking), yelling at, or humilianting a child… EVER. I’m from the A.S. Neil, Alice Miller school of parenting.



  140. 142 Bob in Queensland
    August 9, 2008 at 03:19

    Re: Politicians and Sleeze

    Let me start by saying that I too dislike most current politicians and am sceptical of the rest.

    However, that said, I sometimes wonder if it is a mistake to put too much emphasis on their private morals and not enough on their management skills. If politicians were judged on their results and not on their private lives would we get better people in charge? How many potentially good people are scared off politics because they know they have skeletons in their collective closets. Similarly, how much worse do the affairs look because of the perceived-as-necessary coverups? Why can’t a politician say “yeah I had an affair and my wife tore me off a strip….but the economy is doing well and the budget deficit is down” instead of sneaking around for fear of his job?

    Politicians are human (well some of them, anyway). Maybe it’s time we judged them on results and ignored human foibles.

  141. 143 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 03:26

    Bob ~

    You make a good point about politicians and I agree. Unless it interferes with their job their personal life is exactly that. I certainly wouldn’t want something as embarrassing and private as an extra marital affair being broadcast to the world for them to judge. In addition I’m sure the people doing the judging may have colorful pasts of their own. Humans are not perfect and I know plenty of people that are amazingly successful in their careers and disasters in their personal lives.

  142. 144 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 03:30


    Your position is a good one. It’s just bad timing for Edwards and the convention. People being what they are, will look very poorly at this and will apply guilt by association.

  143. 145 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 03:32

    Good Night!

    I am tired, and i am going to bed for the night…i have a
    favour to ask; could one of the moderators–who is up! take
    over for me!

    When i leave: 144 comments have been on the BLANK PAGE….
    What will the number will be…200?

    Dennis 🙂

  144. August 9, 2008 at 03:37

    @ Bob in Queensland,

    I agree with you about it being time to judge our politicians on their results and ignore their private lives… but, the U.S. since the rise of the “moral majority,” has been obsessed with dragging out the personal foibles of any person with power or influence to discredit their policies or popularity. So look who we get for our President, Rayguns, Bushes, Carters… and a crippled Clinton.

    Wouldn’t it be a riot if Hillary won the Presidency, and then she had an affair with some guy in the Oval Office?

  145. 147 Bob in Queensland
    August 9, 2008 at 03:38

    Sleep well, Dennis!

  146. 148 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 03:39

    @ Chayim,

    The point I was trying to make was that it isn’t like South Ossetia wants to be it’s own independent country. It seems like a lot of people are under that assumption. I know that in that part of the world, the former Soviet Union (Stalin in particular), “incorporated” many autonomous regions. The problem arises now with the former states of the Soviet Union keeping their borders but not looking at actual cultural ties.


  147. 149 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 04:02

    portlandmike ~

    It’s always easy to judge one’s morals from the comfort of your own home when your life is not scruitnized.

  148. August 9, 2008 at 04:38


    About judging other’s morals. I agree.

  149. 151 jamily5
    August 9, 2008 at 07:48

    racism etc:
    I am not knocking education, but I know many who are well educated, yet can’t get employment.
    They end up taking jobs that require no education to do.
    It is easy to say that education is the key, but it is more difficult than this.

  150. 152 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 08:03

    Hi Bob,

    Yes of course we should judge on results, not private behavior. (This was the topic of a WHYS program a month or two ago.) The philandering Bill Clinton was a thousand times better president than the (apparently) faithful Bush. Herbert von Karajan’s Nazi past didn’t diminish his conducting skills. We may be getting more tolerant though.

    When the arrogant, abusive, sanctimonious prig Eliot Spitzer resigned as governor of New York because of a prostitute scandal, his replacement announced at his first press conference that he’d had affairs. After a day or two of public giggles, the matter sank without a trace.

    Sen. Obama disclosed that he had taken drugs in his youth, and the only discussion I’ve seen was an article in Slate.com casting doubt on his story. They couldn’t find a classmate who’d confirm his drug use; by all acounts he was a serious student, not a known stoner. The article practically called Obama a liar. Hilarious!

  151. 153 Bob in Queensland
    August 9, 2008 at 08:20

    Is it true that, when talking about drugs, Obama was asked “whether he inhaled” and his response was to laugh and say “isn’t that the point?”. Seriously, drawing a stereotypical distinction between “stoner” and “serious student” is probably a mistake. I’ve known a number of normally “serious” people who enjoyed inhaling occasionally.

    On the main topic, one of the things I’ve found refreshing about Australia is the rather less judgemental way they treat their (hmmm…when will I start saying “we”?) politicians. There have been a number of “caught in the nightclub” scandals lately (one with Rudd himself) and they haven’t ended any careers. In the UK some of the stunts seen here would have resulted in the press hounding people out of office. Here there tends to be a good laugh at the politician’s expense then the matter is forgotten if the person involved is otherwise doing their job.

  152. 154 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 08:30

    portlandmike August 8, 2008 at 10:45 pm

    I’m not so sure about the “bad karma.” Take South Africa as an example. It has now had a black government for 18 years and many years before 1994 the apartheid system with its prejudice against blacks was already being dismantled. Yet still, a generation later, when it is now difficult for a young WHITE South African to get a job, blacks too quickly use the excuse of “the legacy of apartheid” for anything that is going wrong. This is seriously damaging because it allows blacks to eternally point the finger at others for their own failings and it is holding blacks back as much as apartheid ever did. What is a reasonable amount of time that should elapse before this excuse is no longer regarded as valid? 30, 50,100 years?

    Venessa August 8, 2008 at 11:52 pm,

    I have trouble watching the mind-boggling pre-election hype, when politicians and their advisers and campaign managers and ad people and hangers on behave like spoilt brats trying to grab the other brats’ toys. They should do away with the whole motley crew of them and just have straight debate between the contestants every month or so. It would just involve the cost of travel and salaries for a few assistants and security and renting a hall and sound system. It would save hundreds of millions of dollars. TV and radio should be obliged to report impartially on the contest. Maybe I’m being naive, but it’s amazing to me that victory in such a serious contest should be partly dependent on how much money either side can raise to discredit the other side as widely as possible. And I always question the quality of candidates who are apparently willing to subject themselves to this farce.

    And, as mentioned before, there is the small matter of image. McCain could well lose simply because he is much older and not as good looking as Obama. What a world. Well, I guess that’s politics.

  153. 155 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 08:39

    I cannot reember where I saw it, but I thought that someone commented that the opening ceremony seemed devoid of emotion. I did not see it that way. The symbology that was used throughout the ceremony had deep meaning in Chinese culture, and I saw and heard the audience react to it as it was presented. I also don’t see how it could be emotionally empty to walk a tiny national hero around the stadium with possibly the tallest Chinese man alive today. The story of the little boy freeing himself from the earthquake’s rubble and then going back to rescue hi classmates was a tear-jerker.

    Perhaps we Westerners are expecting very open displays of emotion – I don’t think that such is a reasonable expectation of Chinese people. What I saw seemed emotional in the context of how I am accustomed to Chinese and Asian people in general expressing themselves.

  154. 156 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 08:47

    Scandals vs Politicians
    Bob, there has apparently been some sort of scandal that is threatening the job ofthe major of Detroit, Michigan. While I don’t doubt the veracity of the reports, it justseems to me that we are all of us too willing to jump down the throats of our politicians (or run a CSI examination of their boxers) over issues that are moral rather than related to their skills as leaders and politicians. Did we inherit more from our Puritan fore-runers than we are willing to admit? Is our obsession with sex even healthy? What impact is this having on our shildren? Is this why our teenagers are getting pregnant? And are those same teenagers even comfortable enough with us to tell us when they have messed up?

    I do not think that we are very healthy society.

  155. 157 Bob in Queensland
    August 9, 2008 at 08:49

    @ Bryan

    And, as mentioned before, there is the small matter of image. McCain could well lose simply because he is much older and not as good looking as Obama.

    That’s the second time in quick succession you mention you think Obama might win. I’m calling it a bit more closely than you appear to be–I’d hate to predict the results yet.

    However, if McCain loses I doubt it’s because he’s “older and not as good looking”. I think it’ll have rather more to with with the legacy of one of the worst presidents that America has had in my 50+ year memory.

  156. 158 Bob in Queensland
    August 9, 2008 at 08:54

    @ Shirley

    I didn’t find the Olympic opening in any way devoid of emotion. I don’t usually enjoy the big set-piece “let’s show our heritage” events but actually quite enjoyed last night.

    As for the emotion, I felt quite the opposite. What struck me was the way, despite the stereotype of the inscrutable Chinese, was that every cutaway showed people actively enjoying themselves. And, yeah, the tiny earthquake hero with the tall athlete (who was clearly getting on well with the lad) couldn’t help but cause a misty eye.

    (And the technician in me was most impressed with that side of things. Yeah. I’m a nerd.)

  157. 159 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 09:21

    Bob in Queensland August 9, 2008 at 8:49 am,

    Goodness, I’m sorry about the repetition. I’m not predicting the result, simply making a few observations. I think at this stage it’s wide open.

    “I think it’ll have rather more to with with the legacy of one of the worst presidents that America has had in my 50+ year memory.”

    Well let’s say the “perception” a large percentage of Americans have that he was the worst. George W. made some really serious errors. One of them was actively encouraging the illegal Mexican invasion of America. Another was perpetuating the cosy relationship with Saudi leaders, who are indisputably among the worst enemies of the mostly-Christian West. A third was, of course, Iraq – though I think the mistake there was not in toppling Saddam but in radically misjudging the consequences. But this is not only a deficiency in George Bush. America has often been less than clued up in foreign affairs, under Democratic presidents as well. Look at Bill Clinton’s limp-wristed response to Islamic terror.

    However, George W. certainly got it right in his response to that terror. The terrorists were emboldened by Clinton and figured that the US was a paper tiger. Now they know better and they are on the run. Woe betide the civilised world if they are not kept on the run. It concerns me that Obama may prefer friendly chats with them rather than decisive action.

    God bless George W. Bush for the vital things he did get right. (Yes, there is a God.)

  158. 160 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 09:29

    Bob, how did they lift things like the Olympic circles and the “painted screen” off the floor? If they used wires, then I was not able to see such wires.

    The re-broadcast is just as captivating, I think.

  159. 161 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 09:33

    Bob, I vaguely remember something like the exchange you describe with Obama, but I couldn’t say for sure. I consume so much news, and so much satire that it could have been either. (Difficult times for satire lately.) Sure sounds like his style though. He’s so cool.

    Oh, I’d never think or say that stoners couldn’t be serious. I was just conveying what the Slate story said the classmates had said. Not so much serious vs. stoner as what social circle he was in. I’m just amazed that the usual suspects haven’t taken up the cudgel against him, and hugely amused that the Slate story would suggest a reverse coverup, a fabrication, as if admitting drug use were a clever career move for a presidential hopeful. Just as well. The incumbent has given cocaine a bad name.

    So are Australians more sophisticated, or just more party people? Either way, it sounds healthier. Does “nightclub” imply extramarital whoopie, or pay-for-play, or both?

  160. August 9, 2008 at 09:40

    Good morning our beloved Dennis ! ;-)… And thanks a million to you and to everyone else who has replied to my questions about Autism ( Vanessa, Virginia, Jamily, and you again Dennis )… Actually I intend to become a pediatrician after graduation Inshallah, and that’s why I’m generally interested in everything which is related to children and their lives… I have heard a report on the Iraqi TV yesterday which said that our government is gonna send fifty Iraqi doctors to the US and the UK for medical training… As much as I am thankful for such a generous initiative, as much as I am really very upset because it came very very late and on a very small scale… Our health care system, like every aspect of daily life in our today Iraq, is limping… And we are suffering of a severe lack of both professional medical staff and advanced medical facilities, although we Iraqis have been lucky enough to be occupied by two of the most advanced countries in this planet when it comes to medicine ( the US and the UK ), BUT unfortunately we haven’t seen at all any of these medical and technological advances so far… All we ordinary Iraqis have seen from the US so far is young, impolite, and arrogant American soldiers who block our streets whenever they want, shoot randomly and irrationally whenever they want, spit on the ground most of the time, and keep shouting at and even swear at Iraqi drivers who happen to drive their cars behind their armed vehicles thinking that Iraqis don’t speak English, or may be they do know that many Iraqis do speak English, and in that case the insult is on purpose ! Anyway, I’m so sure that not all Americans are like that… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna…

  161. 163 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 09:59

    Browsing the wire stories on Yahoo News, I founda piece describing American frustration at having to wait half a day to watch the opening ceremony. Were people around the world able to watch it live? For me, the delay was somewhat convenient: it guaranteed that all of the fmaiy would be home to watch it togetehr; and it gave me time to cook up some celebratory snacks.

  162. 164 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 10:05

    Lubna August 8, 2008 at 11:55 pm,

    No, I’m not American. The clue to that is in my spelling of the Queen’s English. But I prefer to remain silent about my identity for now, being concerned that you and many others here will concentrate on that rather than on the substance of my argument. I also think that there is way too much personal chat on this site. It discourages newcomers because they feel sometimes as if they are intruding on a closed circle of friends. Weird indeed for a blog named “World Have Your Say.”

  163. 165 Bob in Queensland
    August 9, 2008 at 10:08

    @ Shirley

    Re: the Olympic circles and the painting, it was just black-painted cables…but on a very sophisticated computer-controlled hoist/flying system.

    (Speaking of that, one of my favourite aspects was that painting with the “rainbow” of athletes’ footprints.)

  164. 166 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 10:14

    @WHYS Convention,
    It is actually a good idea but I’m left wondering how we from Africa will attend such conference at Bush House given that we find it difficult in getting British visa. Second is the money to make such a trip?

  165. 167 Bob in Queensland
    August 9, 2008 at 10:17

    @ Jonathan

    Re: “nightclub” there have been a couple if incidents lately.

    Just before the election, it was “revealed” that, on a visit to NYC, Kevin Rudd and another chap whose name I forget got drunk and visited a “gentlemen’s club”. One report had him being warned for trying to touch the hostesses, but that part was denied.

    The other story was a female cabinet minister who was in the papers for getting a bit “drunk and abusive” in a nightclub. She kept her job but was encouraged to take anger management lessons.

  166. 168 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 10:19

    Salam, hyati. An American activist and mother of an autistic child has claimd that her son has recovered from autism.

    Some autism websites:

    Inshallah this helps.

  167. 169 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 10:19
    Russian jets attack Georgian city
  168. 170 Serina in Singapore
    August 9, 2008 at 10:21

    I can be happy with the pride Chinese must be feeling in their nation. However, riding on the back of that the Chinese communist party is taking a bow and world adulation for the hard work that many barefoot workers put in to construct the great dream of an Olympic games, the countless volunteers who will contribute or the many performers who worked tirelessly to entertain the world.

    Sadly as much as it was visually interesting, the whole performance left me feeling empty. It was a emotinally void performance typical of communist precision drills, there was no feeling associated with it. Did it uplift and inspire? Not really, it was just there, it was done, it highlighted the glorious motherland and the accomplishments of its leadership…. sigh.

    I wish it would have truly left me with a sense of awe and wonder but other than mild interest, it should have been better though not many will complain. The hypocrisy of it all was that the public, those countless many who make up China were excluded from venues and displays, kept back by sombre and robotic soldiers. Looking at various media reports, supposedly half the spectators occupying seats in the main stadium were plain clothes police or security officials from their ID tags. But this should not be a surprise to anyone. This coming from the people’s party who as we know, routinely turn the guns of the People’s Army onto their own people.

  169. 171 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 10:23

    Russian jets have carried out a series of strikes on military targets in the central Georgian city of Gori, close to the breakaway region of South Ossetia.


  170. 172 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 10:28

    @Bryan– Yeah, or Obama could win because he’s smart and honest and principled, qualities little in evidence in McCain, and of course entirely absent from Bush.

    @Shirley~~ Some people seem simply determined to oppose and deny the idea that these olympics could be a success in any way. Also, I quite agree about the Puritan legacy in American attitudes about sex, and its consequences. We’re being pulled one diirection by the Puritan instinct and the opposite by the libertine imperative of modernity and commerce. The Puritan sensibility is oppressive, destructive, hypocritical, and tedious. As you suggest, it doesn’t even serve its own ends, as when enforced ignorance yields teenage pregnancy and AIDS, etc.

    @Bob–The public polls all have Obama leading. Two caveats: it’s too early (they advise us to wait until the first debate for the first meaningful polls), and some people who won’t vote for a black candidate pretend otherwise to pollsters. Nobody knows how many. I fear they’re numerous, and that they disproportionately refuse to respond to polls at all, as well as lying when they do, which makes them a double wild card.

  171. 173 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 10:30

    Bob, nothing van trump the tall athlete accompanying the tiny hero, but I did enjoy the shpere that alternated between planet earth and other artistic visions. Sarah Brightman sang a duet with a national pop star at the top, and suspended people “walked” around the globe at various cockeyed angles that somehow managed to look very artful.

    The young female singer was adorable; and the young flying girl was cute as a button. If anything defies the “boring” ceremony theory, it would be the look on her face. She was having the time of her life.

    Word has it that Chinese press is being to rough on Chinese athletes: a Czech woman took the gold in the first event, the cHinese competitor got fifth, and she was crying and inconsolable. Why ruin what could be a very enjoyable week of competition, sportsmanship, and international comradery with competitive pressure?

  172. August 9, 2008 at 10:40


    We all come from different beginnings. What was left out was the different avenues many of us arrive at the same stations in life. Some Americans of slave decent end up prosperous, ambitious, and wealthy. Many of us WASPs find ourselves the projects strung out, lazy, and poor. While “white trash” and “ghetto thugs” may look the same on the surface, they came from very different backgrounds. 2+2=4 and so does 3+1. If you just look at 4 you are missing some crucial information. The best policies are made by politicians who understand the most input to a problem.

  173. 175 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 10:44


    Oh, “gentlemen’s club,” tied with “adult entertainment” for the “least appropriate euphemism” prize. That’d be a strip club, right? In Texan, titty bar.

    Anger management is one of those new postindustrial tortures, like “diversity training” and “embracing change” (said change invariably being for the worse, and usually meaning loss of one’s job). I’d rather be boiled in oil, burned at the stake, drawn and quartered, or some other good, clean, honest medieval treatment. At least it would be quicker and more definitive.

  174. August 9, 2008 at 10:47


    LOL, um no I didn’t see Oprah. 1) because if I believed in “God” I am pretty sure she would be the Anti-Christ. 2) Because her brand of pseudo armchair sociology is more dangerous to our public then al-Qaeda. I am glad she is there to highlight some of these major issues. The problem I have had with her in the past is that she offers “fish” and not “fishing poles.” Another thing left out of the original post is the sense that while I believe that is how minority races arrived at this point, it doesn’t condone staying in that “oppressed” mindset. “Now you are here, it is today, this is your situation.” It is the responsibility of “the system” to acknowledge its past and present faults and correct them, but it is the responsibility of the individual not to be a statistic.

    For example, I think that welfare is the epitome of “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” It is a program that promotes growth of the least educated and advantaged sector of our culture. It actually caters to that natural sense of minimalism that I was talking about in the African descendant community. It does it while rewording them for family growth. The government needs to accept this as a bad policy, the people need to accept that the free handouts are doing their culture no good.

    One thing though about schools. Here in Cleveland during the industrial boom, it grew in people from all over the world. We all settled in communities with like minded and similar descended people. Where I grew up was about 5 miles from the local center of the urban Mecca on the west side of Cleveland. We had one brown kid on our school in the 80’s and 90’s. I had a computer in my classroom in 1983. we had about 11 students per teach in elementary school. The inner city school only 5 miles down the road was a complete negative of my school. These are the things that have not changed.

  175. 177 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 10:52

    Serina, for me, the Olympics serve as an opportunity for the world tocome together and share in the spirit of athleticism and cultural exchange together. I do agree with you about the political overtones. I am also enthusiastic about the protests that are being staged around the world to conden China’s imperialist human rights abuses. Howover, because of my belief in the spirit of the Olympics, the politics did not emotionally taint the opening ceremonies for me. I felt inspired; and I sensed the same awe and wonder from the crowd and the participants as I watched on TV.

  176. August 9, 2008 at 10:54

    Julie P,

    You struck the nail hard on the head I think. Not only is it scary, but many of the family members that should support you often try to talk you out of advancing. They feel that you are trying to make them look bad. There are two ways to remain on top of the pile in this world. Either climb above the people in front of you, or drag the people in front of you down. It is often way easier to drag people down then to climb. The guilt game is a common one throughout humanity.

  177. 179 Rick
    August 9, 2008 at 10:59

    after ww2 they tried all the movers and shakers of the Third Richte. After Iraq, they tried all the movers and shakers of Sadam’s regime. After Afghanistan, they tried a chauffeur. Does anyone else see a problem here?
    Be embarrassed gitmo supporters.

  178. August 9, 2008 at 11:10

    My dearest Bryan : Hi again… Ah, there’s no need for this extreme hypersensitivity my good friend (if I may call you that)… I have been a loyal listener and contributor to the WHYS programme since October 2006… At that time there were no Brett, no Bob, no Amy, no Nelsoni, no Kathi, no Mike, no Vanessa, no Julie P, no Shirley, no Will, no Hannah, and no Bryan… But just take a look at them right now and see how effective and dynamic the role they and their contributions are playing in the development and the viablity of the WHYS Programme and the WHYS Blog… Nelsoni himself is relatively a new comer, so are Melani, Asad Babyl, Tino, you, and many others which unfortunately I can’t recall their names into my mind at the moment… In fact the WHYS’ John McCains are relatively few in number : Steve, Abdelilah, me, ZK, Virginia, Abdi, Ken, and few others (any help here guys ?!)… So to say that we are a special bunch of people or we are hostile or unfriendly to new comers is, with all due respect, totally absurd… As for your mysterious origin, if you were British then that’s absolutely a terrific thing, and if you were Israeli then that’s even more terrific… As I always say it, Israel will be just fine if its fanatic non Israeli supporters and allies leave it alone… Cursed is the ally who encourages me to go on doing wrongful acts… Anyway, I have to go… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad… PS, Mohammed Ali, are you a WHYS John McCain too ?! ;-)…

  179. 181 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 11:26

    US tourist is ‘killed in Beijing’

    A US tourist has been killed in central Beijing after being attacked by a Chinese man, officials have said.


  180. 182 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 11:27

    38 dead after being bitten by vampire bats

    At least 38 Warao Indians have died in remote villages in Venezuela, and medical experts suspect an outbreak of rabies spread by bites from vampire bats.

  181. 184 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 11:31


    The joys of dysfunctional families! Of course, mine would never be like that. 😉

    Speaking for myself I moved to another state far enough away, and in a climate that my father hates, meaning they RARELY visit, made it easy to break the cycle of “college is only for rich people”. Once that goal to improve myself and circumstances was well under way, instead of rubbing my family’s nose in it, I encouraged them that they could do the same. At least my nieces and nephews are reaping the benefits. (I injured both of my wrists doing hair, so I had to switch careers.)

    I think moving away from the guilt trap helped.

  182. 185 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 11:34

    Jonathan August 9, 2008 at 10:28 am

    “@Bryan– Yeah, or Obama could win because he’s smart and honest and principled.”

    Smart, debatable, but honest and principled? You’re pulling my leg. What is honest and principled about befriending a racist preacher and drinking in his sermons for twenty years and then trying to bluff and wriggle his way out of it when confronted by it? By contrast, do you really imagine that a white man with proven intimate racist connections would make it as the janitor at a Democratic convention centre leave alone nominee for president?

    If Obama does get in, it will be for many reasons, a major one being liberal white guilt and the accompanying desire to elect a black president to prove that whites are not racist. But it certainly wont be for his honesty and integrity.

  183. 186 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 11:34

    Dennis and other mods, please keep checking the spam box

  184. 187 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 11:46

    Lubna August 9, 2008 at 11:10 am,

    I’m not hypersensitive. If I were, I wouldn’t be crossing swords with left-wingers and other assorted anti-Israel fanatics who have a solid presence on this blog.

    I sometimes ask people who have nothing but criticism for Israel what they would do to stop terror against their people. I have never received an answer.

    (Before anyone says, “Withdraw from the territories,” been there, done that, didn’t work – see Gaza.)

  185. 188 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 11:49

    My debut on WHYS both on air and online was in January, 2007. Unfortunately I may not continue to be a regular contributor because I will off to China by the 28th of August to study Chinese and Clinical Medicine. Howbeit, I will keep sending my comments through the email.

    My hope is that Chloe, Ros and others including WHYSers will keep me updated on the debates through my email.

  186. August 9, 2008 at 11:56

    Great, I just got the latest “Obama is not patriotic” email. It gives a link to Snopes.com. The website confirms that Obama’s design team removed the American Airlines “trademark” American flag and replaced it with the Obama design. It also shows John McCain’s plane. It too has no American flag on it.

    Again, I could care less if the guy is a racist, philandering, alcoholic, bastage, that likes making love to farm animals. If he pulls the troops out of Iraq, signs any bills he gets to sends the economy back in the right direction, reestablishes world respect, and reduces cost of family basic needs I am all for him. I am not looking for a role model, I am looking for somebody to fix the system.

    In 2000 I said, “Morals should be a staple of a valid candidate. What could possibly be worse for our country then the Bill Clinton sex scandal?” Turns out that was a dumb question. I didn’t like the answer I got at all.

    It came out in July, Expect to see this one floating around soon if you already haven’t.

  187. 190 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 11:58

    who are the left-wingers and other assorted anti-Israel fanatics who have a solid presence on this blog?

    How do we determine a left-winger and anti-Israel fanatics?

  188. 191 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 11:59

    who are the left-wingers and other assorted anti-Israel fanatics who have a solid presence on this blog?

    How do we determine a left-winger and anti-Israel fanatics?

    Again to those who are moderating, some of my postings are not appearing. Pls check.

  189. 192 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 12:04

    Bryan August 9, 2008 at 10:05 am

    Lubna August 8, 2008 at 11:55 pm,

    “No, I’m not American. The clue to that is in my spelling of the Queen’s English. But I prefer to remain silent about my identity for now, being concerned that you and many others here will concentrate on that rather than on the substance of my argument. I also think that there is way too much personal chat on this site. It discourages newcomers because they feel sometimes as if they are intruding on a closed circle of friends. Weird indeed for a blog named “World Have Your Say.”

    I can’t agree with you more. I think the conversations on this site should be such that everyone will be able to contribute.

  190. 193 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 12:05

    Mohammed Ali August 9, 2008 at 10:19 am,

    If you want to create bold text or italics, use the format I’ll demonstrate below, but use the keys (‘less than’ and ‘greater than’ symbols) instead of the square brackets I’m using:

    [b]bold text[/b]


    The forward slash before the ‘b’ and ‘i’ closes the italics and bold text off, otherwise everything you type next will be in italics and bold

    I’m going to try it now.

    If it didn’t work, ignore this comment and find out from someone who knows what they’re doing!

  191. 194 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 12:06

    @ Bryan August 9, 2008 at 10:05 am

    If you see the world have your blog as a circle of friends, I respect your comments but you are being economical with the truth. When I started blogging, I made up my mind to be relevant here and so far so Good. If you have listened to one of the promo for WHYS, it says join the global conversation. I have posted topics for discussion and no one responded, has it discouraged me from blogging? a resounding no. Other times topics I bring up are discussed . I wonder how we can have a global conversation if we do not interact with each other.

    I’m not hypersensitive. If I were, I wouldn’t be crossing swords with left-wingers and other assorted anti-Israel fanatics who have a solid presence on this blog.
    You should respect other people’s opinion even if it differs with yours.

  192. 195 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 12:08

    Obama Irish roots include wigmaker

    Barack Obama’s Irish roots have been strengthened, with the discovery that a distant ancestor was a Dublin wigmaker.

    Obama’s mixture of background represents the melting pot of the American Society. This my personal view.

  193. 196 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 12:10

    Ah, I see. The programme wouldn’t print the ‘less than’ and ‘greater than’ symbols that I typed in after ‘keys’. Anyway, on my keyboard they are on the comma and full stop keys.

  194. 197 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 12:11

    [b]Georgia’s president declares state of war and calls for cease-fire with Russian forces over breakaway territory of South Ossetia.
    This is a breaking news from CNN.

  195. 198 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 12:26

    Mohammed Ali. That text would have come up in bold if you had used the ‘less than’ and ‘greater than’ symbols I mentioned in place of the brackets. Don’t you have them on whatever you’re using to blog? The ‘less than’ is an arrow pointing to the left and the ‘greater than’ is the same pointing to the right. Good luck.

  196. August 9, 2008 at 12:27


    Israel is only 60 years old. From the 5th century until the lat3 19th century, (longer then the US has been around) Jews were as frequent in the Middle East as Indian Pow wows are in the US. Then they moved back into an area they hadn’t lived in for 1400 year and wanted to act like they had just went away on vacation. They moved in waves called “Aliyahs”. The Muslims didn’t control their Illegal immigration problem.

    The problem is like that of being “pregnant”. The dirty deed has already been done, and now right there in the Middle East is this growing entity. Since I doubt Israelis will accept being “aborted” the situation is one that is going to require a lot of pain before it is resolved. Complaining about terrorist attacks in Israel is like complaining about Hurricanes along the Gulf coast. If you choose to live there, you have to accept the consequences. The Muslims didn’t like you there 1400 years ago, and they are not going to be happy about it now.

    I don’t know what the Israelis should do about it, but what I do know is that the US and the rest of the west should stay out of it. It is the affairs that belong to that region. The creation and support of Israel has caused us more grief then benefit.

    These conversation never end up well so that is all I have to say about Israel and terrorist attacks.

  197. 200 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 12:29

    You mean something like this?

  198. 201 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 12:32

    I’m trying to figure it out. I have it on my PC.

  199. 202 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 12:37

    The Israelis have their right to exist. Even if the land is not for them, but they have been there for 60 years now. Their neighbors should accept them so they can live in peace. What I think should stop is the further absorption of land that was not originally part of the 1948 border.

  200. 203 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 12:42

    @Bryan– You could satisfy the demand for briefer posts by listing the things Bush has done right:.Cutting tax rates. Re Iraq, if the “consequences” of an act are disastrous, then the act by definition was “mistaken.” Good acts have good outcomes.

    It was not Clinton but Bush who ignored months of daily warnings of imminent terrorist attack. The 9/11 attack happened on Bush’s “watch.” The people warning him were Clinton appointees. You’d more credibly blame President Taft for Bush’s negligence than Clinton.

    If “on the run” means vastly increased in number, ferocity, and relative moral authority, then, yup, the terrorists are on the run. Invading and occupying an irrelevant country was “decisive action,” but because that decision was wrong, the consequences are catastrophic. Being decisive is only good if you make good decisions. Taking strategic and tactical instruction from Jesus rather than expert advisors seems not to be a consistently successful course, even with God’s blessing.

    You’re repeating this class because you failed it last time, opting instead to scuttle away and sulk, then complain that I’d been mean. I know you can do better.

  201. 204 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 12:43

    Georgian leader: State of war with Russia
    Georgia’s president says he has asked his country’s parliament to announce a state of war as fierce battles with Russia military over the breakaway region of South Ossetia entered their second day.


    I wonder what the international community is doing? If nothing is done, we might just see another failure of the international community’s ability to stop crises from the inception.

  202. 205 steve
    August 9, 2008 at 12:44

    I think the Russia/George S. Ossettia thing reveals a bit he double standard in the media. It’s getting decent press coverage, but in two days, 1600 people have been killed, and there’s no holy hell being raised. Israel killed about the same in the Lebanon war, but over a course of a month. Russia is bombing Georgian Cities, the Georgian leader is about to declare war.. Interesting how if Israel had done 1/3rd of that stuff there would have been holy hell raised.

  203. 206 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 12:51

    The Georgian leader has already asked the parliament to declare full scale war with Russia.


    The thing is that Georgia can’t force S. Ossetia to be a part of it. Remember Serbia could not force Korsova to remain a part of it? They declared independent with the backing of the US and the EU. Why should Georgia try to force South Ossetia to be a part of them when they don’t want to?

  204. 207 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 12:57

    The Georgian invaded S. Ossetia and there are over 20,000 Russian pass port holders there. Russia says she’s defending her citizens and her peace keepers. Why should we have problem with them defending their citizens?

  205. 208 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 12:59


    Your turn now to educate me. Specificially:

    1) What IS the “substance of your argument,” and why do you not share it with us instead of just repeating the same unsubstantiated assertions and shrinking from argument?

    2) How do you purport to know that “personal chat” is “discouraging newcomers?” Are you aware of this actually happening, or are you just again presuming to speak for others, projecting your own opinions onto others for imagined effect? Lacking both clairvoiance and official standing, you aren’t positioned to instruct us. Suggest, request, but not instruct.

  206. 209 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 13:08

    nelsoni August 9, 2008 at 12:06 pm,

    I try not to be “economical with the truth.” Yes, certainly there is no single circle of friends here but at the same time you see cliques and groups forming and chatting about personal stuff that is of little or no interest in a global context. How “global” is conversation about private life like diet, ailments, recipes and so on? Is this really of international interest?

    I’ve also seen the phenomenon of a regular directing a gross personal insult at a newcomer whose opinion he disagrees with and that insult allowed to stand while the natural response to it is at first deleted. Is this not a case of the community closing ranks against the newcomer whose opinion they (mostly) disagree with? That insulting comment is still cheerfully displayed on the thread, breaking WHYS rules, in spite of the fact that I let a few moderators know about it and even coaxed a reluctant apology from the guilty party.

    “You should respect other people’s opinion even if it differs with yours.”

    Respect works both ways. What ‘respect’ was I shown for the opinion I presented?

  207. 210 Bob in Queensland
    August 9, 2008 at 13:11

    @ Mohammed Ali

    I wonder what the international community is doing? If nothing is done, we might just see another failure of the international community’s ability to stop crises from the inception.

    Putting on my cynics hat here, is there really such an entity as “the international community” as opposed to a collection of disparate and bickering sovereign nations?

    I fear that there is no mechanism–least of all the UN–capable consistantly intervening in this sort of domestic or bilateral crisis. Is there really any sort of intervention that can be made, short of a few countries deciding to violate international law and take military action?

    Don’t take this as me being sanguine about events in Georgia–I’m just at a loss to know what could have been or can be done.

  208. 211 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 13:15

    Breaking News

    Georgian parliament approves President Mikhail Saakashvili’s request for a state of war officials say.

    Follow this on CNN

  209. 212 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 13:21

    This will actually prove the argument that the UN is inept right. If the UN is to salvage its reputation, then it must do something now to stop the blood shed.

  210. 213 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 13:23

    Jonathan August 9, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    “You’re repeating this class because you failed it last time, opting instead to scuttle away and sulk, then complain that I’d been mean. I know you can do better.”

    You illustrate the point I just made in the last comment. Is it so difficult to resist insulting others? Come on, you can do it, try a bit harder. What on earth are you talking about? And what about Afghanistan? I suppose you are now going to claim that it was wrong to go after bin Laden.

    Yes, the chief terrorists are on the run. Hiding underground like rats where they belong and terrified to come out into daylight. Actually there is no way to prove that there would not have been far more terror if we had just turned away and pretended there was no reality of terrorism.

  211. 214 steve
    August 9, 2008 at 13:23

    @ Mohammed

    Nobody, including Russia, recognizes S. Osetia as an independent state.

  212. 215 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 13:32

    Mohammed Ali August 9, 2008 at 12:29 pm,

    Have another look my comment at 12:05 pm. If your keyboard is the same as mine you just use the shift key to get the ‘less than’ symbol (arrow pointing to the left) above the comma and the ‘more than’ symbol (arrow pointing to the right) above the full stop. Use the left arrow instead of the left hand bracket I used at 12:05 pm and the right arrow instead of the right hand bracket. Everything else stays the same. That’ll do it.

  213. 216 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 13:34

    steve August 9, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    “@ Mohammed

    Nobody, including Russia, recognizes S. Osetia as an independent state.”

    Russia says it has its citizens in S. Ossetia. I did not say S. Ossetia independence is recognized, but they want independence. They don’t want to be under Georgian rule.
    Does Russia have the right to protect its citizens from aggression from another country?

  214. 217 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 13:40

    @ @ Byran August 9, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    You are here for a global conversation. If you see people as you claim involved in private chats, why not ignore them and continue with your main objective of being here. You are not obliged to notice them or contribute to their chat. there are multiple conversations on the blog , take your pick or start your own.

    About regulars attacking newcomers, I would appreciate it if you can send me page links so i can read through by my self. As a moderator, Insult or personal attacks don’t fly under my
    my beat.

  215. 218 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 13:43

    Should I do the typing before doing that or do that before typing?

  216. 219 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 13:44

    @ @ Mohammed Ali August 9, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    Then Russia should evacuate it’s nationals from S. Osetia

  217. 220 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 13:47

    To encourage new comers, we need to at times discuss their topics no matter how silly it may be.

  218. 221 Mohammed Ali
    August 9, 2008 at 13:49

    Georgia has no right to invade S. Ossetia. Do they?

  219. 222 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 13:52

    Thanks to the other moderators, who were kind to me and help me out, so i can get a good night of sleep…

    I saw we were talking about Georgia and Russia, fighting in South Ossetia : This situation needs to be dealt with, by moderation from the Governments of Georgia and Russia, with assistance and guidance from the International Community [United Nations, European Union and the United States & everyone else]..

    the following is from bbc’s kevin connolly in washington….

  220. 223 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 14:00

    Time to be a little bit of Ros Atkins, Chloe Tilley and the World Have Your Say team!

    They have written to us about, personal attacks and being rude & unkind to each other, This is a GLOBAL FORUM that represents a diverse set of views on a variety of subjects….

    Chloe, when approach me to be the weekend moderator–sent me the charter:

    I want to have a diverse set of views on the stories of the day—and other topics for the World Have Your Say show.

  221. 224 nelsoni
    August 9, 2008 at 14:02

    @ Mohammed,

    S.osetia is a break away region of Georgia.

    About New Comers and topics,

    Topics are discussed based on importance not sentiments
    you will agree with me that you have raised topics that every one ignored and you have also raised a topic (teenage pregnancy) that made the show. Any one is free to raise any topic.

  222. 225 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 14:09

    Mohammed Ali August 9, 2008 at 1:43 pm,

    Ah, I think I see where you are going wrong. There is no before or after. It must be done at the same time. Have a look at your text at 12:11 pm. If you have found the arrows, just delete the square brackets and replace them with the arrows. Press ‘submit’ and you’ll have your text in bold.

    nelsoni August 9, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    “@ @ Byran August 9, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    You are here for a global conversation. If you see people as you claim involved in private chats, why not ignore them and continue with your main objective of being here.”

    Fair enough. And where would you like me to send the links?

    Dwight from Cleveland August 9, 2008 at 12:27 pm,

    Again, study the history. Jews have always lived there, since ancient times. In fact there were thriving communities in places like, believe it or not, Gaza, hundreds of years ago. And Jews fought alongside Muslims in Jerusalem against the Crusaders about a thousand years ago. So you are starting your argument from a false premise – that this is somehow Muslim land and the Jews are intruders. I’m amazed that you really believe this nonsense about a 1400-year gap with no Jews in Palestine and that you think Israelis should accept terror attacks from the Arabs as a normal consequence of the establishment of Israel.

  223. 226 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 14:29

    Moving on to lighter topics…I saw this little tidbit on a haunted high school in North Carolina. I guess some never grow up and move!


  224. August 9, 2008 at 14:50

    Hi again my dearest Bryan… Yes my good friend, you’re being too sensitive here, and I’ll tell you how I came to this conclusion : In my previous comment which was also directed at you, I said that Israel will be just fine if only its fanatic non Israeli supporters and allies leave it alone… I was talking about the fanatic, limitedless, and conditionless support offered to Israel by almighty countries, organisations, and pressure groups… I was even trying to say something nice to you when I said, also in my previous comment that if you were Israeli, then that’s absolutely a terrific thing, because we do really need to hear from ordinary Israelis here on this blog who can give us real life accounts and experiences instead of giving us blog posts which are full of links and historical lessons… BUT your extreme hypersensitivity made you turn the conversation from “fanatic non Israeli Israel supporters and allies” to ” left wingers and other assorted anti-Israel fanatics who do have a solid presence here on this blog !!”… ”CROSSING SWORDS” ??!! Please forgive me here, but I thought that we’re here on this blog inorder to converse with each other, inorder to have a civilised dialogue with each other… BUT to cross swords with each other ??! Nobody has ever mentioned any of that to me ! With my love… Yours forever, Lubna…

  225. August 9, 2008 at 15:01

    Bernie Mac was just announced as dying. He was a funny dude.

    @ Bryan, They “existed” in thriving communities along the same line as Native Americans exist in thriving communities here in the States. Of course that was according to a Jewish Schollar I studied under. Maybe you are privy to more information then he was. To be honest he was kind of boring and I spent alot of time trying to make the cute chick sitting next to me laugh.

    I would love to know what your discription of the “Aliyahs” is. in a place and time where those were signifigant numbers of the population.

    1st Aliyah = 40,000
    2nd Aliyah = 40,000
    3rd Aliyah = 35,000
    4th Aliyah = 80,000
    5th Aliyah = 250,000

    Could you imagine if that many people showing up over the course of 10 years (250,000 from 1929 to 1939) in an area the size of New Hampshire. (ref. NH has 8,968 Sq. Miles. Israel has 8,500 Sq. Miles.)Imagine the US reaction if that many residents with native American heritage (we’ll call them Mexicans) showed up in New Hampshire at that rate. I think the residents would get a little upset. Then imagine the Mexican government demanding that they be given their own space. Then imagine that the Venezuelans gave then nuclear weapons so they could protect their new found land. How do figure that is going to sit with the surrounding territories?

  226. 229 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 15:06

    About TOPICS, I want to discuss anything that YOU find interesting…

    Did anyone saw the SHOCKING VIOLENCE in BEIJING….1 tourist killed and 1 was injured….

    i want to send my condolences to the family of the victim killed.

  227. 230 Bob in Queensland
    August 9, 2008 at 15:06

    Lines on maps. That’s the problem with the world today. Lines on maps. South Ossetia (by the way, does anyone know if there’s a north Ossetia? I don’t.) is just the latest problem caused because countries are split up with arbitrary lines on maps rather than with regard for community and culture. All over Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East there are conflicts caused by lines on maps.

    So, if lines on maps are the problem, let’s save a few billion dollars by disbanding the UN and buying an eraser.

    As for the UN, whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation in Georgia/South Ossetia, the security council will be powerless as long as Russia and the US are permanent members with a veto. So, here’s a question…is it time to do away with the veto? (Assuming you don’t buy my eraser idea.)

  228. August 9, 2008 at 15:11

    Our beloved Dennis : Your requests are our commands my good friend ! ;-)… May I suggest something for all of you guys to read and give me your opinions about ?! dijla.instablogs.com/entry/my-baghdad-diaries-a-life-which-is-barely-tolerable. With my love… Yours forever, Lubna…

  229. 232 steve
    August 9, 2008 at 15:13

    @ Mohammed Ali

    Apparently every nation but the US and Israel has that right. However this is mostly about Russia punishing Georgia for being pro-west, pro NATO, etc. This is what they to do former members of the USSR that don’t do as Moscow wants.

  230. 233 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 15:18


    While reading through the comments this morning, including yours, I was reminded of an old Billy Joel song called “We Didn’t Start the Fire” released in 1989. I think it still rings true.

    We didn’t start the fire
    It was always burning
    Since the world’s been turning
    We didn’t start the fire
    No we didn’t light it
    But we tried to fight it

    Billy Joel

  231. 234 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 15:25

    To my lovely and dear friend, Lubna: I feel for your pain for having 50 Degree celsius heat in Baghdad in this time of the year! With having only LIMITED amount of power…

    In January 1998, Ice Storm that affected eastern Ontario, southwest Quebec, New Brunswick, and parts of New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine.

    –we had ICE STORM! Which meant for many days, weeks…people didn’t have any ELECTRIC SERVICE provided the power company. Except for those who were in shelters and/or had generators…
    For the interest of full disclosure, My family, had to purchase 2 generators, because of the water system.


  232. 235 Virginia Davis
    August 9, 2008 at 15:26


    You are quite right about Oprah and the fish and fishing. Which is why I don’t usually tune to Channel 8 (NBC) at 4 in the afternoon. However, having “predicted” the situation in American high schools some time ago – “their children out from school and unlearned” – it was an interesting topic. Including the struggling valedictorian from a county high school in the South who was barely making it academically in a small college in pre-med. eg she didn’t know how to use a microscope. Etc. (Go Vanessa, myself from a dysfunctional family and the get away from the home for college strategy.) I never know quite what I am going to learn where.

    It’s part of being a generalist and a poet.

    As for “chat” I enjoy the variety on the blog. Part of the way I process is by stories, sometimes my own. Sometimes relayed. One of the more brilliant thinkers of the last century, Herman Kahn, only spoke in “stories” partly because he was a Jewish war theorist and used to being misunderstood.

    As someone pointed out, I am y’all’s elderly auntie who can be quite off the wall.
    For instance, I have a series of “letters” – numbered 1-4 – from “Eldest Niece” to “Honorable Uncle” with an inner character named “Shapechanger.” They now exist in a calligraphed set by a local Chinese artist who deliberately changed a tense to indicate his involvement in this creation. They were written on scraps of paper in pencil as I pushed a vacuum cleaner around the Multnomah County Elections Building in the early 80’s. (My final training post by Goodwill in becoming a janitor.)

    And why do I tell you all this: dysfunction runs in families as so many women know. My father’s sister, became the “wife” of their family’s Chinese house boy before the turn of the last century. My Grandmother sent the young man away; my two aunts became Victorian maiden ladies, my aunt’s molestation became part of my life when she spoke to me about it for the first time some 60 years after it had happened and my Grandmother established kindergartens in San Francisco so she, my aunt, could have a new set of children each school year. So in my own way: I have established a relationship with “Honorable Uncle.”

    Bryan, you can call me “Honorable Auntie.” If you’ve read this far.

    As for myself, I enjoyed what I saw of the opening ceremonies. I know it will come out in DVD and I’ll be able to see the young fairies/spirits/muses floating to the top again and celebrate the history of China as China saw fit to present themselves to the world. Along the line someone commented that westerners don’t understand the relationship in China between the group and the individual.

    Mohammed Ali, I envy you your “new beginnings.”

    I know this is long. Sorry, folks.

    I’ve decided to have dim sum lunch at Fong Chong’s in Chinatown and visit
    ‘my family” this afternoon.

    Virginia in Oregon

  233. 236 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 9, 2008 at 15:38

    Wow! 227 short comments and counting… I think we will easily pass the 300 mark. Congratulation at Dennis in his moderation debut 😉


    I know it is far back in the queue, but I like to share my experience with you. I have a little brother -I am 15 years older than him- that was diagnosed with Asperger syndrome when he was 9 years old (now he is 15). Asperger syndrome is one of several autism spectrum disorders (ASD) characterized by difficulties in social interaction and by restricted, stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities.

    Asperger syndrome is not well know here so it took a long time to nail what condition he had (the doctors tought he had ADHD).

    I help my mother taking care of my brother until he was 5 years old (I got married then and moved to Canada. I noticed things that struck me as “not normal”: when he was three years old he couldn´t speak properly, then later, when he acquired the ability and started preschool, he couldn´t make friends easily because he had “odd” interests and patterns of behaviour. It was very hard for him because my parents didn´t know his condition and they didn´t handle well the situation.

    After he was diagnosed, he started going to theraphy and he is much better now. He is very sweet and funny. Small children get him. He is quite good with my daughters, they like to be around him because he is always inventing games and making funny comments.

    I love him very much, he is like a son to me. In fact, he looks for my advise when he has problems, and my husband and he get along quite well. I am prepared to take the “burden” (I don´t see it that way) of looking for him and guide him for the rest of his life (if he needs it). My goal now is help him to be independent and happy.

  234. 237 Virginia Davis
    August 9, 2008 at 15:40


    Went back to see what came on while I was entering. Love the Billy Joel quote:
    my own quote is “I used to live in lyric land.”

    North Ossetia is part of Russia. The prez of Georgia is also upset about another
    province, up to the north and east. Made keeping them part of his campaign,

    A read on S. Ossetia is that its close to autonomy – almost no services from the Georgian government – it is a haven for illegals and smuggling and corruption flowing into Georgia. Which prez has addressed well in Georgia. Only about 70,000 people, many of whom hold Russian passports.

    A commentator on OPB’s News Hour said US is quite in Russia’s (Putin’s) face about Georgia. Russia likes Georgia upset because it hampers them becoming a NATO state. Whole thing is a farce (a real farce – see body count) now because George W can’t do anything. Also check out an oil line map which starts in S Ossetia, goes through Georgia and then down across Turkey.

    Virginia in Oregon

  235. 238 Tom
    August 9, 2008 at 15:41

    @ Olympic opening

    It was a spectacular display last night. When it comes to the opening ceremony, each Olympics is sparing no efforts in outdoing the one before. This increasing cost and extravagance in organising the games leaves me wonder whether a developing country will ever have any hope of being chosen to host an Olympic.

    Regarding the opening ceremony being an emotional void, given the overwhelming sense of pure joy and pride clearly visible on the faces of the locals, I’d beg to differ.

  236. 239 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 15:54

    @Luz Ma,

    I had a friend in elementary and high school who was one of six children. She has one brother who is twenty years older than her and was autistic, at the time he had been diagnosed as “mentally retarded”. It was what they did back in the day. All of her siblings had left the nest when her mother died, which left her and her alcoholic father to take care of him, which neither knew how to do. In fact, even when the mother was living she did not know how to take care of him. After a particularly bad episode when the the adult autistic brother was found roaming the neighborhood, the eldest brother intervened, and with family approval, removed the autistic brother from the home. Once he was living with eldest brother and his wife, he was given proper treatment and went on to function on a level where he was able to at least communicate with those around him. Given the level of his autism, he will always need someone to care for him, but at least he is getting the treatment he was not able to get and is a much happier person.

  237. 240 Bob in Queensland
    August 9, 2008 at 15:55

    @ Tom

    Realistically? It’s been many many years since a developing country had any hope of having the infrastructure to host the Olympics. Whatever is said about it being the “games for the athletes”, the Olympics are a media and political event of the first order. The only hope would be if a developing country could come up with some “co-hosting” arrangement with a developed country to provide the infrastructure–though how that might work I don’t know.

    That said, I can tell you that I’ve already seen some “how can we hope to compete with that” type comments from people in the production industry in the UK. Even a “developed” country like Britain would have trouble affording the level of manpower that China threw at the opening ceremony.

  238. 241 Virginia Davis
    August 9, 2008 at 15:59

    @ Lubna: thanks so much for your diary address. My next stop.

    @ Dennis: You are doing a good job. Appreciate your comment about the length of my “story.” Will keep in mind.

    Virginia in Oregon

  239. 242 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 16:02

    I have a topic that is very close to my heart! Mental Health…..Since Saturday, 9 August 2008, is my first time in 2 months…i have been able to see what my local newspaper is writing about!

    The New York State government is announcing CUTS in funding in MENTAL HEALTH services which will be HARD on the people that need, the help…..

    Here is the link to the story:

    i know that several of the BBC WHYS bloggers, have opinions
    on Mental Health….i would like to heard what they are.

  240. 243 Virginia Davis
    August 9, 2008 at 16:11

    @Luz Ma:

    You are quite wonderful!

    @Dennis: re mental health. going to check out ny times. re here in Multnomah County in recent history. Whole bunch of good and not so good entities got gobbled up into one big inefficient, uncaring monolith with a woman ex director with a big salary and then ran out of money. rescued (payroll for all the cogs) by county and state and is now starting over. same old same old. it’s an industry, mainly for the good, average and bad providers to make a living. It is SO nice to feel “taken care of!”

  241. 244 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 16:11

    Wow! 50 year old comedian Bernie Mac died today due to pneumonia. That is way too young to go. My deepest sympathies.


  242. 245 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 9, 2008 at 16:13

    I find the WHYS community very welcoming. I think my first time here was two months ago. I am interested in knowing about the life, opinions, experiences, etc. of people around the world. I have found this on WHYS. I have found that we have more in common than we thought. And I love that most of the time our conversations are respectful and open.

    I think I am the only latin american in this blog (correct me if I am wrong) and I like to be asked about my life, my country, my herithage, my opinion on certain matters, etc.

    You are welcome here!

  243. 246 roebert
    August 9, 2008 at 16:15

    Re: South Ossetia; No organization or nation has the moral authority to intervene, even if they could or wanted to. No reason why Ossetia should not declare independence as Kosovo has done, and no reason why Russia should not act to protect fellow Russians.

    Re: The UN veto: Yes, it should be thrown out. The UN is supposed to be an international body which upholds democratic principles and equality before the law ( in this case, international law), and the veto principle flies in the face of both.

    Re: Untouchable Israel and the touchable Arab states. Violence will not solve this problem. It has solved nothing in 50 years of hatred and bloodshed, and it never will solve anything. Once the Palestinians come to accept this, they will finally accept a fundamentally unfair deal because there really is no other choice.

    Re: Being nice on the blog: No one enjoys being sniped at by some smart-ass safely hidden in cyberspace. The issues are important, not the egos. I, for one, cannot admire cleverness coated in malice. Moderators should draw a stricter line here. I’d be happy to end up in the spam whenever I got ad hominemish.

  244. 247 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 9, 2008 at 16:18


    I couldn´t watch the opening ceremony 😦 I had a terrible day at work and I was very tired to watch them last night in the repetition broadcast. I will browse to the TV channels in hope of seeing a repetition today.

    Do you know if there are good video posts of the ceremony in the Internet? I look for them, but if you come across one, please send the link 😉

  245. 248 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 16:22

    I don’t know the Osettia story, or whether the people in that corner of Georgia really want to be part of Russia instead of Georgia. The map lines in that neighborhood are in great flux lately. Just a few years ago, all of Georgia was part of Russia, or rather the Russian empire, USSR.

    I raise an eyebrow when I hear a claim that people somewhere “ask” a huge country to “help” by invading and annexing the region. That was Hitler’s excuse to invade his neighbors to the east. A few years later, Russia absorbed those states, saying they were “invited” to assist. Recently that was the pretext of the bloody sadistic butchers of Serbia as they slaughtered Bosnians and Kosovars. Few things are more obnoxious than unrequested “help.” The claim deserves close scrutiny wherever it’s cited.

    As a general principle: When someone leaps up to “defend” others conveniently in the service of his own interest, check the story out. Too often it’s a transparent manuever. Make sure the people have actually asked for help–be skeptical of those who speak for others and profess tender concern as they break the rules.

  246. 249 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 16:24

    Luz Ma from Mexico August 9, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    Thank you, Luz Ma.

  247. 250 selena
    August 9, 2008 at 16:47


    I do hope that you feel welcome here. To me, you are one of the family. It wouldn’t be the same without you.


    Marvelous, wonderful job! I am very busy but I keep checking to see how its going and I am impressed.

  248. 251 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 17:01

    Is there any guide available online regarding common phrases that we might hear in Chinese at the Olympics?

  249. 252 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 17:19

    Lubna August 9, 2008 at 2:50 pm,

    “Crossing swords” in terms of communication is not a rough concept. It just means vigorous debate.

    Israel will be fine without its “fanatical” supporters from outside of Israel? I’m not so sure about that one. Israel will be extremely vulnerable without any support at all from the outside world. And I’m sure you have noticed that Israel is under continual attack.

    And when you think about it the Palestinians have far more support than the Israelis. Look at the endless anti-Israel resolutions in the UN General Assembly. Look at UNRWA – created and designed specifically to assist Palestinian “refugees”, even if they were born long after the establishment of Israel. And how about the endless boycotts organised in Western capitals against Israel? What about almost the entire Arab and Muslim world mobilising its energies against Israel? What about the hundreds of millions of dollars that have flowed into the PLO’s hands and more recently those of the Palestinian Authority? Arafat had enough money when he died to buy a small country. (OK, I’m exaggerating a bit). Palestinians are armed, financed and trained by Iranian terrorists and are fully backed by powers such as Russia. The list goes on and on and we have to keep the comments short.

    Yes, Israel has the qualified support of the US and a few other countries and the support of some Jews abroad, perhaps not even a majority since many Jews are indifferent to Israel and many actively oppose the country. That’s about it.

    I’m sorry, but I don’t think this is the right forum for chat, but I agreed with Nelsoni that if I’m not into it I can skip it.

  250. 253 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 17:23

    selena August 9, 2008 at 4:47 pm,

    Well, thanks for that, selena.

  251. 254 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 17:30

    Mr Saakashvili said he had decided to declare that Georgia was in a state of war because it was “under a state of total [Russian] military aggression”. …

    The President of Georgia, Mikhail Saakashvili was on CNN, about 11.00AM hours eastern time on Saturday and was talking to CNN anchor about the situation in his country.

    I am reading this also: Abhazia, [Georgia] the troubles are happening there also….

    What will the International Community will do about this continuing crisis.

  252. 255 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 17:35

    I don’t recall seeing in articles on the Georgia/Russa war prior to the strikes a couple days ago. Was it not covered before?

  253. 256 roebert
    August 9, 2008 at 17:36

    Re: Ossetia: I’m told (haven’t listened in on the news myself, though), that the Russian majority (secessionist in tendency) which lives there, is under attack by the Georgian military. That’s what has prompted the Russian intervention.

    Re; Serbia; It’s pretty clear that Serbia under Milosevich et al. was the closest thing to revived Nazism that we’ve seen in recent history, and the Bosnia-Croatia invasions were strikingly similar in motive and action to Hitler’s pre-war invasions of the Sudetenland and Czechoslovakia. Kosovo, however, was not, properly speaking, invaded, as it had always been part of Serbia. In this case, the Serb military was acting to prevent secession by an Albanian majority on Serbian soil. And this, of course, involved hideous atrocities on both sides.

    But this does not justify the illegal declaration of independence by Kosovar Albanians in territory which, since the Byzantine era, has been an integral part of Serbia. The same does not hold good for Bosnia and Croatia, which never belonged to Serbia, but were ‘ad hocked’ together to create the multicultural Yugoslav state.

    A good parallel to the Kosovar outcome would be the partitioning of Germany after the 2nd war. While that action may have seemed just punishment at the time, it remained an historical injustice which had eventually to be reversed.

    Unjust and unlawful settlements don’t resolve conflicts. They cause further festering of resentments, as with the Treaty of Versailles etc. The right thing to do in Kosovo would have been to set in motion and sustain a process of multicultural reconciliation, such as happened in South Africa after the apartheid era. Failing that (because that sort of socio-political manoeuvre usually doesn’t work out anyway), there might have been a negotiated partitioning of Kosovar territory, leaving Serb heartland intact, yet granting a secure homeland to the Albanian group.

  254. 257 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 17:37

    @Whither WHYS–

    The occasional discussion of diet, ailments, or recipes is absolutely legitimate and of course it holds global, international interest. People everywhere have meals, bodies, and families. Why shouldn’t we have a friendly human face, a refreshing chance to share what we have in common.

    A few would have us always mired in hostile gratuitous arguments that drive us apart, persuade nobody, and leave us with a bitter taste, because that’s their style. After a recent strenuous effort by Ros, we’re finally (almost) free of those overlong, self-indulgent, contentious essays. Good! That’s not what I come here for, and it can’t be attractive to new visitors.

  255. 258 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 17:37

    About the death of Bernie Mac!

    I have watch his Television show….

    i am sending his friends, colleagues and his family, my deepest
    sympathy and condolences.

  256. 259 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 9, 2008 at 17:37

    Probably it was not covered. I have not been able to watch news as often as before starting working again, but for sure that kind of story I wouldn´t miss it.

    Another war… very sad 😦

  257. 260 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 17:41

    Luz Ma ~

    Very sad indeed, another war destroying lives. I am very thankful that I don’t live in a country or region that everyday life is riddled with death and war.

  258. 261 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 17:42

    It’s definitely a shame about Bernie Mac. He was hilarious and I always enjoyed watching him. 50 is still very young to die.

  259. 262 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 9, 2008 at 17:54

    You commented: “Why shouldn’t we have a friendly human face, a refreshing chance to share what we have in common.”

    I love that kind of conversation, the one that let us know about other people lives, beliefs, customs, background, experiences, etc. I like to read the daily activities/experiences that whys´s users post in this forum. They are refreshing, interesting and very important indeed (small things of life are the ones that define us as human beings).

    I find myself talking about “my WHYS friends” around the world with my friends and family here. I like to feel part of the world, and definitely this kind of effort by the WHYS team and the BBC is making it possible.

  260. 263 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 9, 2008 at 18:07

    I finally could watch the lighting of the Olympic cauldron!

    Wow!!! that was amazing.

  261. 264 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 18:07

    @ Virginia,

    I have been to Fong Chong’s for dim sum. Enjoy!!

    @ Bryan,

    Sorry for the personal “chatter.” I like to see what people are doing and don’t always want to talk politics or delve into mental health issues. Hearing that Mohammed is going to China soon (for 8 YEARS!!) or what is going on with Luz Ma’s new job happens to interest me. I do enjoy reading your posts and I do believe we have “crossed swords” before. I respect your opinions just as I respect those of all who post. I consider you all part of my family, and as I put in a few times in my very first posts (a long time ago) you all are welcome in my little part of the world (Beaverton, Oregon).


  262. 265 Andrew
    August 9, 2008 at 18:07

    Now here is an interesting story.


    A lean meat, tends to be a little tough and dry if overcooked more so than comparable meats, but as far as red meat goes is quite delicious.

    Surprisingly it is not so widely available and you need to search for a supplier or travel to obtain it.

  263. 266 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 18:10

    @Luz Ma,

    Here is my position on global conversation. The personal is political. What happens in our daily lives is relevant, many are many daily concerns that get brought here either through debate or conversation that often become the subject of a more formal debate, or on air show. Earlier a man with 86 wives and 170 children was talked about. A debate on polygamy could be introduced. Another person brought up their garden: associated debate: organic vs. commercially raised produce. Any number of debates could be brought up over casual exchanges, because the personal is political. There hasn’t been a debate yet where I have not seen one person give a personal account of how that subject has touched their life.

  264. 267 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 18:18


    Enjoy your vacation and I hope your grades reflect your hard work.


  265. 268 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 18:27

    I agree with everyone, sometimes….we all have a thing to go into a personal conversations….

    i always want to know, what my friends on WORLD HAVE YOUR SAY are doing with in there lives…..

  266. 269 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 9, 2008 at 18:35

    Thanks for your interst in my job. It is great, but very demanding. I am learning a lot about the “real life” of politicians 😉

    For sure one day I´ll visit you in Oregon. I haven´t had the opportunity to travel to the U.S. west coast. It is on my list of the many places I want to go 🙂

  267. 270 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 9, 2008 at 18:36

    @Julie P.
    You are right… the personal is political.

  268. 271 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 18:44


    I love our eraser idea. In so many parts of the world borders are arbitrary. Cultural ties are not considered.


  269. 272 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 18:50

    China has disappeared one of its activists, Zeng Jinyan, whose husband is already in jail. They are active with AIDS campaigns and for the cause of Tibet.

  270. 273 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 18:50

    Amy August 9, 2008 at 6:07 pm,

    Thanks for that explanation. Yes, I remember us crossing swords and that it was a very brief clash. It was about a rather critical post I wrote on Iran.

    Julie P August 9, 2008 at 6:10 pm,

    Dunno if the personal is political. But I guess it can become political.

  271. 274 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 19:00

    To the other moderators, who have some more experience…I have not approved one of the posts!

    It looks like a NEWS STORY!

    Dennis Young, Jr.
    Weekend Moderator
    Blank Page # 19

  272. 275 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 19:15


    Sure the personal is political examples of debates that are personal would be “Should Women Stay Home After All?” There was another debate about a woman from Turkey concerning her “flimsy” clothing. Other debates: abortion, discrimination, should all births be natural, and does fame come with responsibility? On some level someone’s life is directly affected by this. Yes, the personal is very political.

  273. 276 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 19:17

    Andrew August 9, 2008 at 6:07 pm,

    The BBC will publish any crackpot idea as long as it supports the great global warming swindle. So the belching and breaking wind of cows and sheep is going to help destroy our planet? Yes, I’ve heard that before, but now we are supposed to believe that switching to kangaroo meat because they belch and break wind less is going to help save our planet?

    Where does the BBC find these people?

  274. 277 Robert
    August 9, 2008 at 19:24


    Perhaps its part of the great global warming swindle but its probably more to do with silly season in British politics. Without GB or AD to prompt another u turn on something all that air time, server space and reporters need to be used for something.

  275. 278 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 19:24

    About my grades:

    I got a PASSING GRADE in my READING 093 course…..i will update everyone.

    that was my course in July 2008!

  276. 279 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 19:32


    Are they making you take “developmental studies” classes? I know when I was in college anything with a course number that started with a zero was a developmental class. Now for those of who had been out school a while they had their benefits, like the developmental algebra classes I took. Frankly, I didn’t remember any of the algebra I took in high school., as if anyone would after ten years. What I found disturbing were the number of recent high school students who were taking the developmental algebra classes. I told me a lot about the state of education we are currently experiencing.

  277. 280 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 19:38

    Julie P August 9, 2008 at 7:15 pm,

    What I’m saying is that the personal can become political, but it doesn’t necessarily have to happen. A good example would be Bill Clinton’s personal lack of sexual control having powerful political repercussions, once it got into the public sphere. But if something remains personal and private, I don’t see where politics comes in.

    As you point out, the political can impinge on the personal life, but that’s the other way around. Also, I don’t think growing vegetables, for example, is a political act, even if you have a WHYS on it – though I guess it could become political once someone’s veggie growing is interfered with by the authorities.

    But don’t worry about me folks. Nelsoni is 100% correct when he indicates that I can simply scroll past conversation that doesn’t interest me. And I certainly don’t expect WHYS to cater to my needs. If a topic interests me I’ll partake in it. If not, not. I guess I just had different expectations of what this blog would be about.

  278. 281 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 19:38

    I have to take 3 “development studies” classes….

    I took my courses at Onondaga Community College, in Syracuse, New York

    i know, developmental courses, are ZERO credits towards my degree, but they count, when the financial aid office at the college–figures what FA

    Reading done with the “development course” and i can take higher levels if i want to…last day of the “Development Course was on 7 August 2008…

    And i would like to take a minute to thank my instructor, Mrs. Ellen Hale, and Sheila Elmer [tutor] for the help…

    Math in the fall, i will be going to be taking a “1 of the 2 developmental courses” before i can get into higher math..

    Writing i will take the developmental course in the fall semester.

  279. 282 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 19:52

    Robert August 9, 2008 at 7:24 pm,

    Well, maybe as the BBC tries to work out what to report on it might like to refund the public part of the licence fee for the gap in its mandate to “entertain, educate and inform” – if that’s how it goes.

  280. 283 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 19:53


    That is where the personal does become political. Your example of Bill Clinton is a perfect example that could go many ways: At the time “family values” was a Republican mantra, which would cover sexual indiscretions like that. Of course, they overlook their own, but… In other cultures what took place is so trivial it was found laughable and of no consequence. I was in a sociology class at the time with a professor from Paraguay. In one class said subject went up for debate; she laughed at us and got us talking about cultural differences of it around the world. I agreed with her and you about it, but something personal like that is hugely political. If the social conservatives of the right in the US had their way I am confident we would see some drastic changes on our personal choices on things I don’t see as any of their business.

    When I come to these forums I live by one rule: I take what I want and leave the rest.

  281. 284 Andrew
    August 9, 2008 at 20:02


    Is it a crackpot idea simply because you believe it is? You often challenge posters and demand to see proof of comments.

    Please let me know why this idea is from the ‘crackpot’ files.

    Even to this day in local daily papers here so many people just dismiss matters such as climate change as dubious science without any shred of evidence that those qualified and long standing work in these fields seem to have better access to data to make their assertions, backed up by empirical evidence.

    Considering not just methane emissions, but the heavy use of land, water, etc for standard meat production I wouldn’t consider it such a crackpot idea.

  282. 285 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 20:04


    i think the story, you posted is very worthwhile story!

  283. 286 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 20:08


    The Flag bearer for the United States was Lomong Lopez,
    he was a lost boy from The Sudan in Africa…

    He was adopted by Robert and Barbara Rogers in Tully, Onondaga County, New York…Friday night, the people in the Tully area, held a fund-raiser for the Rogers’ to go to Beijing….to be there for Lomong!

    i am giving everyone a link to see!

  284. 287 Andrew
    August 9, 2008 at 20:17

    Cheers Dennis, I thought so too.

    Here in Australia there are routine culls of kangaroos when they are considered pests and dare to do the unthinkable and eat grass on golf courses….!

    Can’t be 100% sure, but the carcasses are taken away for pet food. So hopefully the animals are at least not wasted and died for nothing.

    But why not make use of a resource if it is there (not that I like to think of animals as a resource) but you can see what I mean.

  285. 288 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 20:18

    Julie P August 9, 2008 at 7:53 pm,

    Interesting, especially this bit:

    “If the social conservatives of the right in the US had their way I am confident we would see some drastic changes on our personal choices on things I don’t see as any of their business.”

    This is exactly what many see as the ideology of the socialist nanny state the Labour government has created in the UK.

  286. 289 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 20:20


    I think we all know your feelings on the BBC and their content. You would like a refund obviously because you feel they are not living up to their mandate to “entertain, educate and inform”. I would guess that lots of people are being entertained, educated and informed but what would you propose the programming be? As WHYS is a listener directed show, I’d love to hear your ideas for new BBC shows. I’m not trying to be sarcastic or anything, I would truly like to hear what you would like. Another thought that has crossed my mind too about your apparent dislike for the BBC is why do you watch/listen? I know that I personally chose not to watch Fox News here in the states because I feel they are extremely biased and never “fair and balanced.” I just don’t watch. If the BBC displeases you so much, move on. I for one though, would miss seeing you on the blog.


  287. 290 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 20:23


    Have you ever eaten kangaroo meat? It looks as though you may have given your first comment. During the 70’s in the US I recall a time when red meat became very expensive and in some cases horse meat was used as a substitute. Eating horse meat never caught on. (I’m not an authority on the subject, as I grew up in the 70’s) Is it possible to have kangaroo ranches in Australia, like cattle ranches, to produce meat?

  288. 291 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 20:24


    Regarding the Olympics, I am currently watching and waiting for the women’s fencing to come on. We here in Beaverton already know the results but our very own Mariel Zagunis (who won the first gold medal for the US in women’s fencing in Athens) repeats as Olympic champion. She is actually a graduate of the school my oldest daughter attends now so we have extra reasons for cheering.

    Amy in Beaverton (home of an Olympic champion!!)

  289. 292 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 20:38

    Andrew August 9, 2008 at 8:02 pm,

    “You often challenge posters and demand to see proof of comments.”

    Challenge, yes, but I thought I was the one providing the proof most of the time, not the other way around, especially when people with little knowledge of Israel blast the Jewish state for imagined wrongs.

    Me and millions of others believe man made global warming is a crackpot idea. I’m just having a dig at BBC journos here because they refuse, out of narrow ideological considerations, to represent the other side of the debate, thereby going against their mandate to be impartial. They even maintain that the debate is closed. Well, a few minutes Googling will prove that it is anything but closed. In fact, the MMGW believers are currently taking a heavy beating.

    As I pointed out a while back, the BBC’s very own Jeremy Paxman acknowledged the BBC’s bias in this matter.

    Still, I take your point that reduction in the numbers of cattle and sheep would free up grazing land and water for crop cultivation. But what perhaps as yet unknown repercussions would there be as a result of farming kangaroos on a massive scale?

    I’m not a great meat eater and I hope the kangaroos fight back.

    Now if you are moderating, feel free to delete this comment.

  290. 293 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 20:39

    Middle East
    Dwight: The Muslims didn’t control their Illegal immigration problem.

    My understanding had been that the first few waves of Euro-Russian Jews to Palestine consisted of refugees fleeing pogroms in their countries of origin. If refugees kept coming to my country, I’d shrug and try to make life better for them. Of course, the Palestinians might have stopped at the shrug. Zionist conferences and papers starting agitating nerves in the 1920s and inspiring people to thoughts of nationalism, though; and things went downhill from there. I’m not so sure that there was as much animosity 1000-odd years ago as some would have us think.

    As much as I would much prefer a retun to the 1947 map of the UNGA Res 181 Partition Plan, I wold accept a Green Line solution. However, the nonsense of the settlements and the takeover of Jerusalem is unacceptable to me. It should not be so difficult to return Israelis to Israel and internationalise Jerusalem by placing it under U.N. control. Dismantling the huge wall and reconstructing a proper border along the Green Line would be similarly challenging, but also achievable.

    Number of words: 187

  291. 294 Venessa
    August 9, 2008 at 20:44

    Bob ~

    My eraser is ready to go!

  292. 295 Shirley
    August 9, 2008 at 20:50

    Middle East
    Donovan?, it is the Israelis – both military and illegal settlers – who are much more violent than the Palestinians. In one month, Israeli troops and settlers injure dozens of Palestinians and kill around ten. More yet are abductted and languish in prisons without charges filed against them or access to proper legal representation. Israelis destroy Palestinian houses, tear up infrastructure, slash and burn orchards and crops, and raid civic and public institutions, even government buildings. In the same time period, one Palestinian might infiltrate Israel and go on a rampage. However, several months usually pass between these kinds of attacks. We don’t see Palestinian security forces sniping at Israeli settlers or pro-zionist activists. They don’t invade Israeli cities or settlements with tanks and armoured jeeps armed to the teeth and abduct people while shooting about randomly. They don’t destroy Israeli agriculture. They don’t raid Israeli schools and government offices and walk off with computers and equipment. They don’t do any of these things on a government level. Israel does. Seems to me that Israel is the one with a problem of violence that is endemic at the level of the government. No-one is innocent here, but I certainly see one party as having more responsibility for the constant flare-ups in the region.

    Number of words: 215

  293. 296 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 21:04

    @Luz~~ Sounds like you found the Olympics opening ceremony after all–I was going to suggest youtube; is that where you saw it? I have yet to watch it myself.. Yes, the consensus is almost unanimous for a free-wheeling, friendly, fun, respectful interchange here. It’s a testament to your big heart that you conspicuously invite even those commited to different approaches. Now that you mention it, you do seem to be the only voice here from the whole stretch of land between the southern border of the US and the South Pole! How can that be possible? What a heavy responsibility. If I may say so, though, you bear the load most gracefully. Be careful, or you could end up in politics yourself… “)

  294. 297 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 21:06

    @Bob and Venessa–

    Erasers at the ready then? Very good. Are you compiling lists of erasees?

    And are you taking requests? ‘)

  295. 298 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 21:15

    hi….i am going to sign off!

    to the other moderators, i am going to take a quick break
    for dinner and a nap!…


  296. 299 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 21:17

    Amy August 9, 2008 at 8:20 pm,

    To answer your last question first, I listen to/watch the BBC because I am appalled by the bias displayed by its staff and I feel compelled to challenge and correct the worst manifestations of that bias, particularly in relation to America, Christianity and Israel. I’ll give you one example: at the time of Samir Kuntar’s release, the BBC World Service reported that he was a “guerrilla” who infiltrated into Israel. If you don’t know what he did, don’t Google him because it is not the kind of thing you want to be looking at on what is, I hope, a pleasant weekend, but trust me when I tell you that the World Service was bringing us pure Hezbollah propaganda. A guerrilla is someone who fights a vastly superior military force, generally for noble objectives. Kuntar is a terrorist. I can’t let this sort of thing go unchallenged and I have brought it to a number of people’s attention on a number of forums.

    What would I like to see on the BBC? I don’t watch TV, but by all accounts BBC entertainment like Bonekickers has degenerated into left wing and Muslim propaganda, so that needs to change. It’s also high time the BBC employed right wing comedians. They can’t possibly be worse than this Marcus Brigstoke character. He was on the World Service and he must be the unfunniest ‘comedian’ I’ve ever heard. Why is he on the BBC? He’s left wing and bashes George Bush, so he qualifies.

    But most importantly, I would like to see some balance in the BBC’s political reporting. There seldom is.

  297. 300 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 21:41

    Here is something lighter: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/olympics/2008/08/which_sports_would_you_add_to.html

    I think I would enjoy seeing tug-o-war, only we would definitely need to test for steroids in that event. Another idea could be musical chairs, but that could become subjective but instant replay could take care of any questionable calls.

  298. 301 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 21:43

    Wow, I was the 300th post for this weekend. Who knows, we may hit 400! Way to go WHYS bloggers.

  299. 302 jamily5
    August 9, 2008 at 21:57

    Now, when I am on, the blog dwindles to a turttle’s pace, then, I go away and check in just before going out and see 100+ more messages.
    I guess that this is just the way things go.

    I, too, enjoy the debates and points brought up from different sides of an argument.
    But, more than that, I like to know about people’s lives, their families, etc.
    there aren’t too many blind people on here, either — maybe one or two others.
    That is that wonderful thing: people from different places, with different beliefs, with different family structures, with different experiences.
    And, the conversation is intelligent, (sometimes more familiar than others) but always more stimulating than most regular list serve or email groups.
    So, it has the intellect of a newsgroup discussion, yet has the breadth of a familiar email group: but with none of those crazy immodicon-one-liners.
    “:), :(, 8o, ;), ;(, etc”
    I only know “:).”
    That is the only one I will use.
    I like the familiarity, as long as it is civil.
    I would understand their objection to familiarity, if their responses were not responded to and they felt as if their contributions were not appreciated.

  300. 303 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 21:59


    If they can have curling as a “sport”, then let’s add tug of war to the list.

  301. 304 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 22:12

    Shirley August 9, 2008 at 8:39 pm,

    “If refugees kept coming to my country, I’d shrug and try to make life better for them.”

    Palestine was never a country. And as I keep saying (and people keep ignoring) there were always Jewish communities in Palestine since ancient Israel – sometimes thriving, sometimes almost obliterated, but there all the same. So there were also Jews in Palestine welcoming those early refugees from Europe. Why deny history?

    As for your borders, no border can be drawn that will satisfy Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad and the rest of the crew, simply because they see the entire State of Israel as illegitimate.

    Shirley August 9, 2008 at 8:50 pm,

    You have it back to front. The Israeli actions are a response to Palestinian terror. During the Second Intifada (2000-2004) terrorists from Hamas and Islamic Jihad and Al Aksa Martyrs brigades and others murdered close to one thousand Israelis, around seven hundred of them civilians, including women, children and the elderly. They were slaughtered in restaurants, clubs and on buses and in drive-by shootings.

    Something had to be done and part of the solution was the security barrier. That and the excellent Israeli intelligence and presence on the ground drastically reduced the infiltration and subsequently the terror. Unfortunately Palestinian terrorists cannot stop themselves from trying to kill Jews so they increased the rocket attacks from Gaza to compensate for the frustrated attempts to kill Jews from the West Bank side. But they still try to get through the barrier. This happens on a daily basis. Hence the Israeli actions. And the Israelis are not killing “Palestinians,” they are killing Palestinian terrorists, unfortunately along with civilians at times since the terrorists use civilians as human shields. If Palestinian terror attacks on Israeli civilians have dwindled, it is certainly not for want of trying.

    I hope that clears things up for you.

  302. 305 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 22:16

    @Bryan, a lot of people don’t think evolution exists, but they aren’t biologists. It’s not properly characterized as a “debate” when 99.999% of people in a position to know are on one side, and an uninformed mob is on the other, no matter how big or loud the mob. The BBC need not follow every story about biology with one of equal length where a creationist says “God made it.” We’re all free to have opinions, about God, or the meaning of life, but it’s silly to have an opinion about an issue of fact that’s contrary to those facts.

    By the same token, global warming is the overwhelming consensus among informed scientists, the only people whose opinion matters. Here too, the ignorant mob is immaterial. And it isn’t an “ideological” dispute. Equal time after every story about climate change for someone to say “no it isn’t!” is not required for “balance.” I’m a fair, open-minded guy. If you know of any evidence demonstrating that the earth is not warming, please adduce it for us. I’ll be the first to concede to you. Ditto for flat earth, by the way, or the sun orbiting the earth, moon made of green cheese, etc.

  303. 306 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 22:24

    Bryan, a completely non-contentious friendly question: Can you even name three funny right wing comedians? I’m NOT a leftist, but I can’t think of any. I’m assuming you don’t credit Dennis Miller as a comedian just because he claims to be one, and Rush Limbaugh doesn’t count because he doesn’t.

    (I only write to you because I respect you, I hope ya know.)

  304. 307 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 22:26


    I have to admit it, but I do enjoy curling. It was something my father sort of followed (just to annoy my mother and I, I think) but during the 2002 Winter Games, we got sucked in. My husband and I have looked into the local curling club (yes, we have one here in the Portland area. More than one I believe) and set up our TiVo to record any curling that comes on. Not quite sure why or how we got sucked in, but we did.

    When my girls and I were on our trip to my mom’s, we waded in Lake Michigan. We met a woman that was there testing the water and she gave it a big thumbs up – clean and good to go. It was cold though. My daughters didn’t care.

  305. 308 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 22:34


    Then it’s decided, tug of war will be added to the list!

    It used to be that each Olympics would be able to add a sport to the Games, if memory serves me right. I know Billy Payne of the 1996 Games wanted to add golf. He got nixed for that contribution.

    I’ve always like the biathlon. A little different, but a sport I am able to interest my male friends in.

  306. 309 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 22:40

    Goodness Jonathan, don’t tell me you are a 9/11 conspiracy theorist as well. What do they put in the water in San Francisco? There is no “overwhelming consensus” among scientists re MMGW, and that is what we’re debating. The BBC will only talk to the scientists who support MMGW because it is on a mission to save the planet. If man is not responsible for global warming then man cannot save the planet and this would be a huge disappointment for the BBC. The BBC should not be on any missions and it should not have an agenda. It should be reporting. That’s all.

    I gotta go.

  307. 310 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 22:42

    Guys, put me down for girl jello wrestling. And, again, a retrun to the authentic Greek tradition regarding clothing in all events, i.e., none.

  308. 311 Bryan
    August 9, 2008 at 22:45

    Jackie Mason is hilarious. He’s American but even if he were British the BBC would not touch him with a very long pole. A right wing Jew who used to be a rabbi and talks frankly about politics? Please!

    (Now I really hope nobody comes up with an old clip of Jackie Mason on the BBC.)

  309. 312 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 22:46


    Jonathan beat me to the punch. I can’t think of any “right wing” comedians. That’s not to say that some current comedians aren’t right wing. My feeling about most comedians is that they poke fun at whomever is in charge at the time. When Bill Clinton was in office there were plenty of jokes being told by everyone. My fear is that someone considered “right wing” (I really detest labels like that) would use their prejudices (i.e. racism) as comedy instead of looking at the absurdities that most would find funny.

  310. 313 Robert
    August 9, 2008 at 22:53

    I think what is missing from the modern Olympics is the three legged and the egg and spoon race. Maybe the modern games just couldn’t deal with bad PR that may come with the use of illegal knots or a scandal over the use of battery eggs.

  311. 314 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 22:57

    Any elementary climate model will yield a greenhouse effect from the inputs of ~100 years of emissions from burning what we’ve been burning. That’s dead easy. But never mind that; the man-made aspect is a moot point, because whether it’s made by man or cow or volcano or mischievous elves, the result is the same (planet’s heating with all manner of ill effects), and the policy prescription is the same (cool it down). Surely you acknowledge that if we reduce emissions of greenhouse gases, we will reduce the rate of warming henceforth, and there’s no need to play the blame game for the past.

    “If man is not responsible for global warming then man cannot save the planet” is just fallacious reasoning. I can think of a thousand things man can fix that he didn’t break. So can you.

    You always “go” when you’re cornered; funny thing about that.

  312. 315 viola
    August 9, 2008 at 23:02

    I just read “The Translator: A Tribesman’s Memoir of Darfur” by Daoud Hari, so this caught my eye in the news: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/world/africa/10sudan.html?_=1&oref=slogin

    It tells how the government of Sudan, instead of feeding its own, is selling its bumper crops internationally, primarily to Arab countries.

    From the article: “Smallholder food procuction goes down, commercial food production goes up, and food relief serves as a subsidy to this transformation, keeping the displaced alive” said Alex de Waal, a Sudan scholar at the Social Science Research Council in New York.

    So my question is this: Is Sudan and the Arab world very ably “playing” the rest of the world through the food relief agencies to accomplish its goals?


  313. 316 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 23:22


    I totally agree about the three legged race. There would most certainly be illegal knots. I considered the potato sack races as well but then, what material would be used. I am sure Nike would come up with something to give their chosen athletes an advantage. However, if only burlap could be used, that would be interesting.

  314. 317 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 23:23

    Thanks to the moderators, who took over during my nap!!!!

  315. 318 Amy
    August 9, 2008 at 23:24


    It is now my mission to try and find a clip of Jackie Mason on the BBC 🙂

    I don’t know if I would consider him “right wing” however. Have a great weekend. I’ll let you know if I am successful in my quest.

  316. 320 Jonathan
    August 9, 2008 at 23:44

    @Amy, My bad. I really thought the call was for FUNNY right wing comedians. Since that’s not a requirement, he gets Dennis Miller. Two more to go.

    “Right wing” is a respectable label, and doesn’t include racism. Right and left wing are fairly well defined. Liberal and conservative are beaten-up though. Republocrat and demublican have long outlived their usefulness or meaning.

    Every thinking person should derive a philosophy from principles, without regard to squeezing it into any one of those straitjackets, or Procrustean beds. Me, I’m a fiscal conservative, social liberal. Seems coherent to me: essentially it’s “leave me alone,” as the founding fathers intended and expected. Don’t take my money and squander it on shiny war toys and bridges to nowhere and corporate welfare, and don’t tell me how to live or who to love.

    Turns out there’s a label for that, “libertarian.” Unfortunately it’s public spokesmen/women invariably trumpet their most extreme, scary, awful-sounding positions, instead of the reasonable, attractive ones. The mass media cheerfully play the barker for this gruesome freakshow, rather than responsibly describing or explaining it. Our own WHYS did so just a few days ago; you may have heard it and/or read my rant about it.

    Oh dear, is this an essay? sorry!

  317. 321 Julie P
    August 9, 2008 at 23:46

    If you wonder what the police are doing while you’re waiting for them to respond to a 911 (emergency call) for an hour here it is:


    Our tax dollars hard at work!

  318. 322 Robert
    August 9, 2008 at 23:53


    Who are the biggest criminals, Sudan for selling its crops on the world market at a higher prices than it would get locally or the international community for allow it to happen?

    You can understand Sudan’s actions, and any body who believes in free trade can’t complain, producers sell to the highest bidder. Why they are allowed to get away with it is the thing which I’m confused about.

  319. 323 viola
    August 9, 2008 at 23:54

    Do apes have human rights? Spain may soon give rights to great apes.


    From the Monitor editorial: “Are rights independent of human thinking? Do they bestow human responsibility toward all living creatures?”

    I find myself agreeing with the Monitor that human rights is a human concept, that it should remain in the human realm, and that in our relations with animals, kindness should be our goal.

    For me, that brings up the question that if human rights are accorded to all of us humans, are we then absolved of the need for kindness to our fellow humans? Or, to put it another way, do human rights express the highest kindness we can do for one another?


  320. 324 Robert
    August 10, 2008 at 00:08


    I agree with the notion of not trying to fit everybody into one or two boxes. My own political beliefs span both the Tory and Labour. Each have better ideas in certain areas (although this new age of politics makes it difficult to tell what they stand for anymore)

    Unfortunately the reason we like boxes is simply. It easy to dismiss somebodies entire platform because you can compare them to somebody else in the box. As an extreme example of the point Stalin’s leadership lead to the ultimate destruction of Russia’s productivity therefore all policies of the left are bad by association. No debate about the details of policy, just blanket statements about left and right. Politics for the brain dead or lazy politician.

    Even the notion of left and right makes conversion across countries difficult. The right wing of British politics is still leftist by US standard, our left wing is right compared with Germany and France.

  321. 325 viola
    August 10, 2008 at 00:14

    An animal rights group tried to run an ad comparing the beheading of the Greyhound bus passenger to the slaughter of animals used for food by humans. I wonder if members of PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) have given thought to the implications of extending human rights to animals?


  322. 326 viola
    August 10, 2008 at 00:33


    I don’t believe the issue is who is the biggest criminal. The issue is that Bashir and his government have unlawfully and brutally chased people from their farms and murdered and raped and encouraged murder and rape by the Janjaweed militia to accomplish it, simultaneously clearing the way for the exploitation of oil and water rights. That the int’l community steps up for the people is commendable, but one of the results is that the Sudanese gov’t’ is rewarded financially.

    The U.N. either has or intends to bring charges of genocide against Bashir and has told the world that the U.N. is expected to save the millions while not given the mandate and the resources to do so.

    Maybe it is useless to get indignant but I can’t help it when when I read such things.


  323. 327 Amy
    August 10, 2008 at 00:38

    Well everyone, I am off to a barn dance. It is something I got at a school auction. Wish me luck. I’ll fill you all in on it later if you want me to. The girls are very excited. I can’t wait to catch up when I get back. Who knows, maybe we will have surpassed 400 posts by then.

  324. 328 Jonathan
    August 10, 2008 at 01:05

    Hey, have a ball, Amy, and yes of course tell us about it afterward! With a link to your flickr page.

    (Can one technically have a “ball” at a barn dance? Oh, sure, they’re only words….)

  325. 329 Jonathan
    August 10, 2008 at 01:18

    Viola, pay close attention to that “useless” indignant feeling. Get to know it intimately. Treasure it. If the day ever comes when you read such a thing and you DON’T get that feeling, you’ll know something has gone very wrong.

  326. 330 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 01:28


    Those are public servants who are sworn to uphold the rule of law and sworn to protect us. While they are on the taxpayers’ dime they can do their job and not surf the ‘net to look at their ‘fetishes’.

  327. 331 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 01:31

    Thanks Julie!!!!

    I agreed with the point totally!

    Using the “company” computer to look at “smut” is not SMART idea, and ‘you’ will get in severe trouble..

    Weekend Moderator
    Blank Page 19

  328. 332 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 01:43

    Thanks Dennis!

    At my job we have a very liberal internet policy, far more than any company that I know of. It is extremely rare for me to come across websites that are forbidden. At the time of hire I was informed that there is one type of website that if visited would lead to immediate termination. I completely agree. Really, save your sexual fantasies for somewhere else. It is one thing to feed intellectual curiosity and another to view porn on the job.

  329. 333 Jonathan
    August 10, 2008 at 02:01

    [Squirming just a little bit about all that hating on the fetishes…]

  330. 334 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 02:08

    Jonathon, buddy, before I make dinner. I’m not a prude, however, if you want to view porn, please do not do it on the job. That is all that I ask.

  331. 335 Venessa
    August 10, 2008 at 02:17

    Jonathan ~

    No need to squirm! It’s not hate….(I think) Just people pointing out it’s not a good idea to fulfill fantasies on the clock! 🙂

  332. 336 Venessa
    August 10, 2008 at 02:19

    Dennis ~

    Considering it’s Saturday (in my part of the world) perhaps we will get to 450ish. The WHYS team will have a lot to catch up on Monday.

  333. 337 Venessa
    August 10, 2008 at 02:23

    I found the last paragraph of this article quite interesting…


    “Correspondents say China has spoken in the past of what it calls a terrorist threat from Muslim militants in Xinjiang, but it has provided little evidence to back up its claims.”

  334. 338 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 02:24

    To update everyone, i am from New York State in the United States!!!!

    So i have many more hours, before Monday morning, when my moderating rights will be expired…

    so, my number of posts will grow!!!

  335. 339 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 02:26

    Vladimir Putin accuses Georgia of Genocide….

    What is your comments!

    Look at the Numbers of resources each side has

  336. 340 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 02:30

    @ Venessa

    i saw the same article!

    when someone can make an statement and can don’t give
    evidence of its validity….usually, can be disregard as non-sense.

    August 10, 2008 at 2:23 am

  337. 341 Jonathan
    August 10, 2008 at 03:25

    Aww, thanks for your concern friends. I was juuuust joking around. I used to do network admin and I know all about the legalities and technicalities and stuff. At least in the US, employees should just presume they’re being monitored always for everything. There’s been (of course) litigation holding employers liable for NOT monitoring (I forget the details), and costing them big bucks…. so now even employers who don’t want to monitor are monitoring.

    I’d be curious to know what the situation is in other countries, especially in Europe with its privacy laws.

  338. 342 Rick
    August 10, 2008 at 03:31

    Russia’s ambassador to the UN claimed ethnic cleansing happening inside Georgia within 24hrs of the start of the conflict. I can feel a full scale soviet style invasion coming on.

  339. 343 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 03:40

    Regarding the ETHNIC CLEANSING claim by Russia’s Ambassador…

    The problem, sorry for not knowing how this current situation happend first.

    My problem with this story, is that Russia, the country under the current administration is going to have many problems with the United States government George W. Bush and, because of the election season in the U.S., with the future president of the country, Barack Obama and/or John McCain…

    I think that the United Nations, should hold an emergency Security Council meeting on this crisis and write an VERY strongly worded MOTION on the continuing violence and trouble in Georgia.

    i think that the international community needs to immediately place all kinds of sanctions against, Russia. Maybe the country will end its violence tendencies against Georgia, immediately.

    I am looking for anyone else point of VIEW on this story.

  340. 344 Jonathan
    August 10, 2008 at 03:48


    You don’t ask the easy ones today, do you. I think only humans should get human rights, and animals get animal rights, if only to keep it from getting confusing. What animals should have what rights is of course the harder question. I sort of imagine a continuum of propriety, or decency (“rights” makes me think of going to jail if I get one wrong, so I’m avoiding the word for now) that animals should be accorded, ranging from an ant to a gorilla, in some kind of rough parity with what we think their level of sentient thinking is, modified for expedience.. As in:
    Ants > no brain to speak of > squish at will
    Rats > smart but yucky > kill but try to avoid prolonged pain
    Pigs > seriously smart but delicious > kill humanely, cook well

    Here’s one for you: Which is the higher value–“human rights” or “kindness?”

  341. 345 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 03:57

    Good Night!

    Can one of the moderators, who is in a different time zone…take over for me…

    I am getting ready to go to bed.

    Currently we have 344 comments [excluding this one]….can we make over 400, by the time i come back online.


  342. 346 Shirley
    August 10, 2008 at 04:22

    Sorry, Jonathan. I haven’t any creative ways to make you blush over it rather than squirm. Do you actually play with fetishes? Or is the 5th your best buddy?

  343. 347 Bob in Queensland
    August 10, 2008 at 04:25

    Sleep well, Dennis! I’m around, so it’ll all go quiet now anyway!

  344. 348 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 04:28


    Are you nursing a small resentment? I recall you writing something either earlier in this BP, or in a TP that started out: Typical. I turn up and everyone is in bed. I’m paraphrasing.

  345. 349 Bob in Queensland
    August 10, 2008 at 04:36

    @ Julie P.

    LOL, no resentment…so far the advantages of living in Australia have way out-balanced the time-zone related drawbacks!

  346. 350 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 04:39


    I did look at Google earth thing you brought up the other day about being able to see streets and such from the convenience of your computer. I checked out Brisbane. I looks a lot like like San Diego, quite pleasant. I couldn’t make out car tags, or people though.

  347. 351 Tom
    August 10, 2008 at 04:51

    @ Bob,

    The Football World Cup style co-hosting system may be the only hope for the countries of Africa and South America to host an Olympic. Also, the Olympics has to rid itself of the expensive show-bizzism that is becoming the norm, or even the prerequisite, of recent games. Hopefully the British will be wise enough to not attempting to outdo Beijing, but to return the games back to its purer form.

  348. 352 Bob in Queensland
    August 10, 2008 at 05:05

    @ Julie P

    I’ve actually found my house on the Google “Street View” and, so far, don’t see a problem. (The pic was obviously taken before we moved in in June because it’s a different car in the drive). Google claim they’ve used software to obscure people and car number plates and, on the quick play I had, this seems to have been effective. I imagine that, as the spot the odd lapse, any people in the pics will be blurred out.

    I think I agree with whoever said that those who want to use it will far outnumber those who have the privacy issue.

  349. 353 Tom
    August 10, 2008 at 05:05

    @ Friendly chit-chat on WHYS,

    A casual friendly break from the bitter debates is always welcomed. I may not be able to contribute to these topics, but they provide windows to the real world and most of the time I find them to be interesting readings. 🙂

  350. August 10, 2008 at 05:55


    Google street view is a lot of fun. For sure it wont be long until when you walk out of your front door, your image will be noted, and stored on a hardrive.

    I get into a BlowupStop Time frame of mind, when Im in Street View on Google.

  351. 355 Amy
    August 10, 2008 at 06:02

    Well everyone, I survived the barn dance. With the help of wine, I was able to teach some 3rd graders (8 year olds) the electric slide, the limbo and some other dances. I have many blisters on my feet from my ill fitting cowboy boots but I will make it. We had a hay ride, BBQ ribs with corn on the cob, potato salad and cole slaw – a real hoe down. My girls had a ton of fun even though the oldest one got lost in the corn maze looking for her little sister (who apparently has a wonderful sense of direction). Once I get the pictures unloaded from the camera, I’ll provide a link for anyone who wants to view them. Sorry though, no pictures of me dancing. Have a great morning/afternoon/night. I’m off to bed to rest my weary feet.


  352. 356 Katharina in Ghent
    August 10, 2008 at 07:35

    Good morning, everyone!

    Wow, it’s Sunday morning and we already have 355 posts! You guys’ve been busy! Well, my parents left and my life can return to normal. I’ll be around for quite a while now and catch up with what’s been written so far, so if somebody needs some sleep, please do so.

  353. 357 Bryan
    August 10, 2008 at 09:34

    Amy August 9, 2008 at 11:40 pm,

    Funnily enough, soon after I made that comment and shut down the compt. I realised that I’d heard a Jackie Mason interview on the World Service. It’s probably the one you linked to. Be interesting to see whether there are any more. Jonathan you should get hold of a tape and listen to him, before trying to impress everyone with your snap judgement that he’s not funny. That’d only be fair.

    Jonathan August 9, 2008 at 10:57 pm,

    I see you neatly dodged the point I was making about MMGW. I was responding to your earlier point which had misinterpreted my earlier point to mean global warming rather than man made global warming. If man is not causing it – and there is a whole body of impressive evidence to support this view, the BBC’s agenda notwithstanding – then it is part of a natural cycle over which man has no control and therefore cannot do anything about.

    But seriously, I see no point in debating with you if you can’t refrain from putting people down:

    “You always “go” when you’re cornered; funny thing about that.”

    That’s precisely what I don’t do. And if I’ve got it wrong, I’ll concede the point, as I believe I did with the debate on Al Gore and security. I conceded another point when Bob pointed out that the BBC had hardly been supportive of Labour with the whole Gilligan thing.

    So now it’s over to you to provide examples of me avoiding the debate.

  354. 358 Katharina in Ghent
    August 10, 2008 at 09:50

    All right,

    Now, over an hour later and having read all the comments (really!), I’m ready to comment:

    @ politicians:

    What will always surprise me is that our expectation for the moral values of a politician are so extremely high, while nobody seems to care about the private life of a CEO, who makes x-times more money than the politician and leads a huge company with several thousand employees, who are more or less depending on the wise decisions the CEO will take. We judge CEO’s on their performance, and only when that is criminal (as in ENRON), will we go against them. A politician can be smart and do the best for his country, but beware if he has the tiniest spot on his “private life jacket”.

  355. 359 Katharina in Ghent
    August 10, 2008 at 09:57

    @ South Ossetia:

    I wouldn’t look at the EU to do anything, because we are waaaaaay to dependent on their gas. The strongest you can expect is a call to “solve the issue immediately”, whatever that means.

  356. 360 Katharina in Ghent
    August 10, 2008 at 10:02

    @ Global Warming:

    I’ve lost count at how many times I’ve said that 1) it doesn’t really matter whether it’s man made or not, fact is, it’s happening, and we should do all we can to either reduce it or learn to live with it; and 2) given all the other environmental pollution that’s out there, and not being reported on anymore because it’s not as spectacular, global warming may turn out to be our smallest problem. It reminds me a little bit of the AIDS discussion we had this week.

  357. 361 Katharina in Ghent
    August 10, 2008 at 10:06

    @ behaviour on the blog:

    Jonathan (and others) has a way of sometimes playing with the borders of rudeness, and I’m not surprised when other people feel offended by him. When that happens we (the offended ones) should just immediately quote the rudeness (like Bryan did) and demand a more civilized behaviour.

  358. 362 Bob in Queensland
    August 10, 2008 at 10:10

    If nothing else, the weekend’s Blank Page has taught me one thing:

    Global Warming and G.W. Bush share a set of initials. I didn’t realise it until I saw the abbreviation “MMGW” above.

    Significant? We should be told.

  359. 363 Bryan
    August 10, 2008 at 10:46

    Katharina in Ghent August 10, 2008 at 10:06 am,

    Thanks for that, Katharina. Problem is, insult is very prevalent on the internet, with many people having it down to a fine art, saying things to others that they would never say to their face. It’s really unpleasant to have to wade through all this self-indulgent nonsense to get to the point the person is making.

  360. 364 Jack Hughes
    August 10, 2008 at 11:05


    Bush will be gone by early next year. Who are people going to blame for every single thing that ever happens after that ?

    Nick Cohen covers this theme in the UK’s left-leaning Guardian…

    PS: there was someone on here last week blaming Mrs Thatcher for everything that has ever gone wrong in his life

  361. 365 Andrew
    August 10, 2008 at 12:30


    Perhaps people feel moved enough to criticise Bush because there is a reason to?

  362. 366 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 12:39

    Good morning!!!!

    Thanks to the other moderators, who took over, when i was sleeping!

  363. 367 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 12:42

    Thanks to Katharina in Ghent!

    Welcome to the Dennis’s first moderator debut

    Now, i have been very nice and patient–about personal attacks! Now it is OVER

    Georgia’s Pulls out of South Ossetia

  364. 368 Robert
    August 10, 2008 at 12:47


    Checking on employees web behavior in Europe is not a big problem. As part of you employment contract most firms of any significant size will put a clause in saying that all web, email and telephone communication may be monitered. As we’ve been told it not a private service and signed a paper agreeing that it is no longer covered by the privarcy laws. However any data they get is subjected to data protection laws which controls who will see the infromation and for what reasons.

  365. 369 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 12:56

    I know where i go to Community College….in the Computer Centre—YOU are not ALLOWED to do anything ILLEGAL ranging from “chain letters thru looking at pornographic material].

  366. 370 Robert
    August 10, 2008 at 13:03


    I believe that MMGW is what we are seeing. I don’t follow the logic of the natural GW theory. They say natural CO2 emissions are 100 times bigger than man made ones therefore MMGW isn’t the problem. But the greenhouse effect is made from the accumulated CO2 in the atmosphere not the CO2 emitted.

    Natural sources might make up a high percentage of CO2 but the world became final tuned at that level, what comes in goes out. It might only be a very small extra amount of CO2 from human activities but that is more than the natural sources can capture. Add to that the destruction of the natural carbon sinks (deforestation and the warming of the oceans) just accelerates the problem. Over the years that small flow of MM CO2 accumulates and a lot of CO2 builds up in the atmosphere.

    Although the emitted MM CO2 is small compared to natural sources, since the accumulated CO2 in the atmosphere from natural sources is small over any given given period, the percentage of accumulated man made CO2 of the total is 10 even a 100 times bigger. It is the MM CO2 that dominates in the CO2 in the air.

  367. 371 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 13:18


    Now that I’ve had my eight hour nap…

    Cool that you found yourself on Street View. (‘ll have to look mine up.)

    There was a time when a person could go to weather.com and zoom in anywhere live with their weather satellite. Not anymore!

  368. 372 jamily5
    August 10, 2008 at 13:54

    While you were at a barn dance, I was at an open house… log cabin, corn hull game, cards, campfire, cheese, chocolate and wine… … etc.
    I indulged in everything but the wine… … not a drinker, (even though my friends lament because I could never be the designated driver, either — they cry, what’s the point of not drinking). (smile).
    Hope you enjoyed your barn dance and are resting your feet.
    Yep, those boots can sure do damage, if you are not use to them!

    Someone posted the book:
    “The Translator: A Tribesman’s Memoir of Darfur” by Daoud Hari,
    I have not read it, and might try and find it in an accessible format.
    Since I enjoy biographies and memoirs, as well as intellectual reads, I am taking all suggestions.
    Dennis, Any pearls of wisdom from your reading class?

  369. 373 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 14:00

    @ Jamily5:

    Regarding pearls of wisdom from my reading class:

    Learn to take an kin interest in what you are reading, even though you are not interested in it.

  370. 374 jamily5
    August 10, 2008 at 14:03

    Another thing that is easier said than done.
    I find taking notes helps, but is quite time consuming.

  371. 375 Brett
    August 10, 2008 at 14:04

    @ Andrew:
    Perhaps people feel moved enough to criticise Bush because there is a reason to?

    Well said! lol

  372. 376 selena
    August 10, 2008 at 14:05

    Interesting story about how quickly the innocent can have their lives torn apart.


  373. 377 selena
    August 10, 2008 at 14:09

    WOW, Dennis! You are one popular guy. You will be in great demand after this weekend. 🙂

  374. 378 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 14:20

    @ Selena :

    I hope i will be in GREAT DEMAND 🙂

  375. 379 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 14:53

    Perhaps people feel moved enough to criticise Bush because there is a reason to?

    Reasons for starts:
    *The Civil War in Iraq
    *His refusal at first to recognise the need for a GLOBAL WARMING TREATY
    *The problems in the Economy
    *His “stubborness” with international affairs
    *His problems with the English language…
    *among other reasons*

  376. 380 selena
    August 10, 2008 at 14:55

    Google Earth…

    A long time ago I could look at my house in Canada really close up. But then the function disappeared.

    I must try to find it again.

  377. 381 selena
    August 10, 2008 at 15:01

    I have been reading some articles sent by reporters from China. There was one who said that there were cameras everywhere watching every move.

    That made me laugh. It is not only China that has cameras everywhere!!

    In Canada, the poor crooks can’t get away with a thing. 🙂

  378. 382 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 15:02

    Question for anyone…

    This morning during my morning read I saw that the Wall Arch collapsed in Arches National Park, Utah:


    A real shame.

    It made me recall Ansel Adams famous photograph of Half Dome in Yosemite. I think I remember a few years back that there was a partial collapse of Half Dome in the Adams photograph. Does anyone remember when that happened?

  379. 383 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 15:14

    Time to summarize couple of things so far:

    1)Jamily5: Try to take Bullet Notes [summarize in your own words, what the text book author is talking about]….

    2)John Edwards: May not be attending the Democratic National Convention this month, following the past weekend’s breaking news.

  380. August 10, 2008 at 16:21

    Hi our beloved Dennis… And hi to all of you guys, all of you with no exceptions at all from a girl who’s struggling to get things right in a place where nothing at all goes right… Today tears fell down from my eyes as I heard this very sad news : The legendary PALESTINIAN poet MAHMOUD DARWISH has died in Houstin, Texas at the age of 67… Ah Ya Mahmoud Darwish, you immortal pure spirit… To us you have never died… You’ll stay alive forever as long as there’re white pigeons flying over Al Aqsa Mosque… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna…

  381. August 10, 2008 at 16:23

    Morning all,

    A quick geometry questions? How close is Georgia to Iraq. How many countries separate the two? How many countries separate Afghanistan from Georgia?

    Is anybody else worried about this region becoming the spark for the next world wide conflict?

  382. 386 Robert
    August 10, 2008 at 16:28

    I’ve yet to see the ceremony but appears as though part of it was faked for the world TV. In this instance I think it was the right decision, given the smog and the difficulty in filming such a display, to preserve the effect for those not at the event. But it makes you think in future what is real or not really in live broadcasts.


  383. 387 steve
    August 10, 2008 at 16:47

    Wow, didn’t expect the USA to beat China so badly in basketball. Bring on Angola!

  384. 388 steve
    August 10, 2008 at 16:53

    This story isn’t new, but is so outrageous I thought I would share it. Notice how the legal system is rewarding fraud. This is also not rare. Stats show that 20% of husbands are not the fathers of children of the marriage.


  385. 389 Robert
    August 10, 2008 at 16:54


    Possibly but there are many unresolved issues in the region and only by coincidence it happens to be near the middle east. Georgia issues is separate from that of Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.

    Georgia is not about US thirst for oil, US imperialism or what ever the latest theory is. Ossetia is further evidence of Russia retaking some of its former power and glory. The back ground suggests that happy stalemate had been reached by Russia and Georgia over the issue.

    Then Georgia makes a move west wards (NATO membership, routing of Caspian sea oil pipelines to avoid Russian territory etc) and Russia then tries to bully the small state. Georgia then calls it bluff and conflict blows up.

    The key to this conflict is getting Moscow on side with the rest of the world, and ironically little to do with Tbilisi.

    It is unfortunate that nobody learns the lessons from the previous centuries, wars amongst the super powers can easily start by the small underlings they nature (Bosnia for WWI and the Cuban Missile Crisis being the most obvious examples.)

  386. 390 Robert
    August 10, 2008 at 17:00


    In Angola I was told a few weeks ago that the ‘farther’ figure to young boys is generally the uncle on the maternal side not the partner of the mother. The theory goes they can guarantee that uncle/nephew are blood relatives and worth the investment that the family unit needs, but who your farther is always slightly questionable.

  387. 391 selena
    August 10, 2008 at 17:07


    Don’t get your knickers in a twist. If you had sex with the woman it is just the luck of the draw that you are not the father…

  388. 392 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 17:19

    i am sorry for not being around for about 90 minutes or
    so, we had internet problems..

    thanks to the other moderators!

    This is the HIGH chance of getting over 400 posts on BLANK

  389. 393 Katharina in Ghent
    August 10, 2008 at 17:42

    @ Georgia:

    My husband made a very valid point today: Imagine if the country were already in NATO, then this would mean the beginning of a Third World War! Surely the other NATO members could not stand by idly while a country attacks a NATO member state?

  390. 394 Katharina in Ghent
    August 10, 2008 at 17:48

    @ Dennis:

    You’re doing a great job! Good to see that your internet access is working again, I had similar problems two weeks ago when I was moderating… Alas, it can happen to the best of us 🙂

  391. 395 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 17:50

    I have to second the motion of Katharina in Ghent [husband]….

    If Georgia, was in NATO already–Russia, would not have INVADED, the soverign nation of Georgia. And it could led towards a World War III…..

  392. 396 Robert
    August 10, 2008 at 18:00

    Georgia and NATO

    But surely that has prompted a lot of these troubles. If it had been left any later then Russia would be powerless because Moscow wouldn’t want to risk open conflict with NATO.

    At the moment though it knows that NATO are tied up with in other theaters and have no stamina to enter yet another conflict unless forced too. As Georgia is not yet a member of NATO they can stand by and watch it happen. This all plays into the hands of those in Georgia who want a move towards Russia and also the Kremlin itself. They can now argue that NATO is not a supporter of Georgia and raise questions about the entry into the pact which may stall it happening.

  393. 397 Venessa
    August 10, 2008 at 18:13

    JulieP ~

    I just went through my pictures from a couple years ago when my husband and I went camping in Utah and spent a couple days in Moab. I happen to have a photo of it…unbroken.


  394. 398 selena
    August 10, 2008 at 18:16


    Your husband is probably right. And who knows? It may still lead to that, unless men begin to see common sense.

    What is the likelihood of that happening? 🙂

  395. August 10, 2008 at 18:17

    @ robert

    I just am looking at the “Chess Pieces” and see that there are too many ripe possibilities. First, it is about oil in Georgia. Not US imperialism, but Russia’s quest for a return to glory. Georgia has considerable oil fields and is host to a major Pipeline.

    Russia also has nuclear knowledge, and a considerable nuclear arsenal. They have seen an economic rebound with the rising cost of oil. We have also seen a rekindling of tension between the US and Russia in the last 6 years.

    Now on the other side of little Georgia is Iran. They would like to speed up their nuclear technology and equipment acquisition. While they currently are not fully pursuing a nuclear weapons program, but with the US knocking on their door in Iraq, and the world presence in the region growing fast, I wouldn’t count them as “not interested” in a leg up.

    The money and the logistics that the two could mutually agree upon is too appealing. In the end it is a win-win situation for Russia and Iran to join forces. The least that could happen is Georgia Oil infrastructure could be damaged. That would cause a price increase in the cost of oil for a time being. Since both economies make more money off high oil prices and their competitors in the west suffer when oil prices rise, they would gain global economic strength.

    Now the players in the west. The US and Briton are strained from the last 6 years of conflict. Their people’s support for the governments are at an all time low. The lesser players in Germany and France are also suffering from economic woes. They have also shown in recent years a strong desire to stay out of conflicts in the Middle East.

    I still am not sure what their open explanations are for their conflict this time. The only thing I hear is accusations about who started it.

  396. 400 Andrew
    August 10, 2008 at 18:18

    If Georgia were in NATO the two sides, western bloc and Russia would not go into an all out war over Georgia.

    If one side were at an overwhelming advantage then there would be conflict but you have to put some stock in the fact that Europe is not so stupid to get into a huge conflict on its own doorstep, we had two over them in the past century and we do not forget what it cost us.

    An aside, it is nice timing that Putin and Co have buried this under Olympics coverage, but then Russia does want its resource corridor access – look at Chechnya and Dagestan.

  397. 401 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 18:18


    Cherish that photo. It’s a real shame that happened to the Wall Arch, but there is no stopping time, erosion, and gravity. Let’s be grateful that we have national parks to go to.

  398. 402 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 18:19

    HI, everyone…

    I have to take a Ros [our fearless leader] and to make an statement!

    Please stop writing EXTREMELY LONG essays….If i want to do an essay, i will go to the college and do it…

    Weekend Moderator
    Blank Page 19

  399. 403 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 18:22

    I have to celebrated and please allow me the freedom and,
    we have made it over 400 posts on BLANK PAGE 19….and probably outdoing the other BLANK PAGE {1 thru 18}….

    Moderator, Weekend [on duty: temporary]
    BBC World Have Your Say

  400. August 10, 2008 at 18:22

    @ NATO,

    Yeah, I too would wonder if Russia invading NATO supported Georgia would cause a global conflict, or would NATO be weakened by not being able to respond to its obligation? We have seen a weakening of the UN in recent years for not responding to human rights violations and not being able to stop its members from non-sponsored “regime changes”. What if Russia invaded a NATO supported country at the moment that NATO had a reduced capacity to react?

  401. 405 Andrew
    August 10, 2008 at 18:22

    Good incentive to do a DNA test once ‘your’ child is born, nip it in the bud and save on complications later. After all what man would not want to be certain that his child is his own. I don’t recall the link, but not that long ago a report on the BBC stated a nationwide survey in the UK where about 40% of women surveyed believed their children were not by their husband. The words of TV police come to mind… if you have nothing to hide and you’re innocent then you will provide a sample! In this day and age it is not about trust anymore but practicality.

  402. 406 Venessa
    August 10, 2008 at 18:23

    JulieP ~

    Indeed I will just like the photos of my hike to the top of Mt. St. Helens. I had climbed it a couple years ago before they shut it down again. It was a phenomenal experience.

  403. 407 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 18:26


    I like going to the Pisgah Forest in western North Carlina and I have hiked Looking Glass Mountain. Truly an amazing experience. This fall I plan going to Cold Mountain. I would love to see the mountain that inspired the novel and the movie.

  404. 408 Venessa
    August 10, 2008 at 18:27

    Yup, I know a guy that dated a girl that got pregnant and she told her family and him it was his. It’s hard to pro-create though if you haven’t had sex with the person. Some women are reprehensible.

  405. 409 Andrew
    August 10, 2008 at 18:29


    Russia would probably just turn off the gas to NATO nations during a cold snap and then feel it could do what it pleased in ‘its’ former sphere of influence. They have done it before and got their way.

    But I don’t see that the US who have cultivated the region would want to give up so easily as fuel is the dominant issue there. It might even be a chance for the west to put Russia down for good and stop them flexing their atrophied muscles. Once the missile interceptors are put in then the Russians wil certainly think twice about starting anything.

  406. 410 Katharina in Ghent
    August 10, 2008 at 18:30

    @ testing your child:

    I recall the story where a father of four suspected, after divorce, that the youngest one might not be his because it looked different from the other three. Turned out that the youngest one was the only one that was his… Life can play nasty tricks on you.

    I wonder, with genetic profiling of the general population just a matter of years in the coming, how many “cuckoos” are waiting to be found…

  407. 411 Venessa
    August 10, 2008 at 18:35

    JulieP ~

    I’ve been invited to do some hiking in the slot canyons next with my friends that live in SLC. They were jusin in Nepal in April for a month of climbing. There is nothing like standing on the top of a mountain. It sounds cliche but it truly took my breath away (and not because I was winded from the climb). 🙂

  408. 412 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 18:40


    I love mountains, especially growing up next to Lake Michigan. There really weren’t many around other than the Blue Hills. Maybe for our WHYS congress meeting we can take a hike in the mountains in Wales. I’m sure we could a way to get there.

  409. August 10, 2008 at 18:43

    @ Andrew,

    Do you think that maybe the US intention to put these interceptors in might also be sparking an urgency to act upon this opportunity? The US has repeatedly said that the defense system is not there as a threat to Russia. A conflict with the US would allow them to say, “See, what would have happened if we had let the US put its missile in where they wanted.” They would seemingly have a valid point, at least out of context.

  410. 414 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 18:44

    About people who have children and never tell the TRUTH, about who is the father…

    I have several stories of this kind of behaviour.

    It is totally DISGUSTING…..

  411. 415 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 18:46

    Do you think that maybe the US intention to put these interceptors in might also be sparking an urgency to act upon this opportunity?

    The U.S. had some IDEA that this kind of trouble was going to happend!

    Dwight in Cleveland, i am not Andrew…But Andrew can insert his comments as well

  412. 416 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 18:54

    Could one of the MODERATOR take over for a few hours!

    I am going to get some groceries in town….

    yes, we went over the 400 mark


  413. 417 selena
    August 10, 2008 at 18:56

    I am here Dennis and can hold the fort for you.


  414. 418 Amy
    August 10, 2008 at 18:59

    Time to put out the reminder to Ros and everyone that we would like a BBC sponsored WHYS congress, preferable next May. And while I am not sure I could handle hiking mountains in Wales (bad knees and a terrible fear of heights), I’d love to come with you all to visit the country.

    Way to go to Dennis in leading us to over 400 posts!

  415. 419 Andrew
    August 10, 2008 at 19:11


    Just goes to show that the threat is undoubtedly the Russians.

    But there will always be some justification for what they do. The Russians have a history of misinformation and downright lies, they do get found out eventually, but it never stopped them doing what they will. They no doubt go under the premise of might is right.

  416. August 10, 2008 at 19:12


    The missile defense system was supposed to be to thwart Iran’s non existent nuclear weapons. The US promised Russia that it would not use them on Russia.

    CNN gave 15 seconds to Georgia and 22 seconds to Edward’s affair. Oh but wait!! They are going back to the Edward’s affair after the break!

  417. 421 Andrew
    August 10, 2008 at 19:30

    Have the Beijing authorities given up on clearing the air over the city? Judging by the vistas they have!

  418. August 10, 2008 at 19:37


    Playing the game of, “what would you do if you were in their shoes?” I can’t wholly blame the Russian. In Russia shoes, I would see the US only 2 states away. The US wants to include both Georgia and Turkey in NATO. They want to put a weapons system in Poland. Russia is now surrounded by pro western countries. I am not certain what I would do in Russia’s shoes. Just sitting there has gotten them into a closing net.

    But I do think that if they want to continue to exist, they will have to take some evasive actions. Then again, with what we have at hand, I am not sure what I would do if I were in the US leadership shoes.

  419. 423 Shirley
    August 10, 2008 at 19:38

    Something popped out at me while I was reading an AP article about the men’s volleyball team and their comeback victory over Venezuela: Just before the match, the players briefly linked arms and bowed their heads. “We wanted to have a moment of silence where we could gather our thoughts before starting this journey,” [team captain Tom] Hoff said. “It was a moment of silence to honor the Bachman family.”

    I am rather certain that if they had wanted to, they could have prayed and could even have said as much in the interview. But Hoff chose to describe it as a moment of silence. Has anyone heard more about that moment?

  420. 424 steve
    August 10, 2008 at 19:43

    @ Katharina:

    “I recall the story where a father of four suspected, after divorce, that the youngest one might not be his because it looked different from the other three. Turned out that the youngest one was the only one that was his… Life can play nasty tricks on you.”

    Using the passive voice makes that sound like it was an accident. That husband was cheated on and lied to by his wife. She perpetrated a fraud on him. Life doesn’t play nasty tricks on you, dishonest people do.

  421. August 10, 2008 at 19:50


    I’d like to think that in the final analysis that Europe would be the moderating influence and a rational one at that. After all this is happening on their doorstep and as I noted earlier they really don’t want to see what they have be destroyed.

    The Russians suffer from a sense of paranoid insecurity and poor man complex when it comes to dealing with other major powers and the motivations they might have. Add to that their large chip on their shoulder since their universe imploded. Though I can’t see why they should feel that former eastern bloc countries belonged to them with their separate histories – but I wont get into that. They want to be seen to be tough, they also want to maintain their hold on regional resources.

    The Americans have an equally debilitating view of world politics with an almost John Wayne shoot em up diplomacy not too far under the surface. Perhaps if they had suffered as the European nations had during their wars of last century they would not be so much into sabre rattling and feeling isolated over there across the waters.

    Europe would not let either side lose sight of the bigger picture. Well let’s hope they wouldn’t as they have the most to lose of the 3 parties. The main problem to overcome is the intractability of Russian perspective on such matters.

  422. 426 Robert
    August 10, 2008 at 20:22


    I agree there are plenty of chess pieces on the board, but I think there are more than two players which is what makes this situation so dangerous. I can’t see a common theme that runs through all the conflicts in the area. It strikes me as more a large number of isolated problems in a small geographical region. Once one goes though as you imply the rest will just ignite as well.

    The current tension seems to have many parallels with the first world war which started almost by accident after a long series of saber rattling exercises by the various European empires at the time.

  423. 427 Shirley
    August 10, 2008 at 20:27

    another Chinese activist detained A question, out of curiosity: has Bush ever criticised Saudi Arabi for its repression of all sects and rleigions not Salafist?

    Mahmoud Darwish
    His poetry had been held up at one time by Israeli politicians as an example of the myhical Palestinian call for Israelis to be shoved into the sea. There was a time when one politician suggested including some of his poetry in Israeli school textbooks, but the idea was dismissed under the premise that Israel just wasn’t ready for such steps. By the way, tunnels lead to Gaza’s zoo. Weird.

    400+ posts:
    I wonder if the idea of splitting the Blank page into two sections might be worth considering? If 300+ posts are becoming the norm, it would validate such a move in my eyes.

  424. 428 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 21:34


    The Lake District isn’t that far from Wales; I’m sure you could be accommodated. Stonehenge isn’t that far either. In fact, Stonehenge is only 90 miles west of London. (I was just there. The picture you see of me was taken at Stonehenge last May.) We’ll get you taken of.

  425. 429 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 10, 2008 at 21:44

    Thanks to the moderators who sit in for me, when i went out to get
    some food! This is my first time home, on Friday–since 1 June 2008..

    @ the Congress in Wales! I think it needs to be
    on EVEN LEVEL…No heights i.e. hiking!

    @ Selena: Thanks for being the “sub” moderator when
    i was out!


  426. 430 jamily5
    August 10, 2008 at 22:09

    kids that aren’t your own:
    After that long, don’t you think that there would be some signs or a couple of red flags?
    If a person is that deceitful, don’t you think that they would not be able to hide that characteristic for too long?
    I would be personally offended if someone asked me if the children were “really his.”
    If someone mistrusts me, don’t lay with me.
    Similarly, if I can’t trust you, I won’t lay with you.

  427. 431 jamily5
    August 10, 2008 at 22:12

    Why Wales, as opposed to any other part of the UK?
    I am not opposed to it, just asking.

  428. 432 viola
    August 10, 2008 at 22:15


    Life is unfair, Steve. It’s unfair for men to have to financially support other men’s children who were conceived illicitly outside the marriage. It’s unfair for women to bear most of the burden of carrying children to term, giving birth, and caring for the child until it can stand on its own. It’s unfair for children to bear the cost of deceitful parents, stupid parents, childish parents, and laws that enrage either the husband or the wife and inevitably create terrible stresses on those children

    Family law is always difficult.


  429. 433 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 22:17


    Some of us were discussing a WHYS congress over the weekend, which some of us agreed that holding it in Parliament Square would be a good idea. As conversations do it wondered, with two of us discussing the fallen arch (no pun intended) in Arches National Park, Utah, that developed into…while we’re there how about hiking in the mountains of Wales. It’s nearby.

  430. 434 selena
    August 10, 2008 at 22:25


    Thanks for a great weekend!

    Tomorrow I leave for the South of France for 8 days. I think I will be out of touch. But who knows?

    Have fun everyone!

  431. 435 steve
    August 10, 2008 at 22:29

    @ Viola

    That’s why I think people should be licensed to have children. If you need a license to drive a car, there’s no reason why they can’t license parents. There’s also a HUGE difference about a natural bodily duty, and lying about something. Saying that carrying a child to term is unfair is like saying that having blood flowing all over your body is unfair. It’s what happens. Or sneezing. It happens naturally, where as a lie, and making someone pay for a lie, is quite different.

  432. 436 steve
    August 10, 2008 at 22:31

    RE: WHYS “congress”

    Oh boy, that would be funny. I’ll be in Germany in the end of november if you want to have it there!

  433. 437 Julie P
    August 10, 2008 at 22:37


    No can do. That’s my busy season at my job and a black out period for vacations that begins in October and ends in April. For me, it is April, May, or June.

  434. 438 jamily5
    August 10, 2008 at 22:38

    Wales, it is.
    And, I am up for hiking… … myself and the dog.
    I have a guide dog.

    I have always wanted to visit Marsailles, France.
    (bad spelling, sorry)
    The BBC did a documentary on its cultural diversity and the harmony between those cultures and religions. It would be interesting to check it out for myself.

  435. 439 nelsoni
    August 10, 2008 at 22:39

    About WHYS congress,

    . time line

    August 9, 2008 at 12:57 am amy mentions WHYS family members to meet when they can

    August 9, 2008 at 1:07 am Dennis says it is a good idea

    August 9, 2008 at 1:22 am nelsoni suggests a WHYS congress

    August 9, 2008 at 1:30 am Amy suggests Bush house as venue

    August 9, 2008 at 1:52 am Julie P suggest parliament square in london

    August 9, 2008 at 2:09 am amy says Maybe we can repeatedly mention a WHYS congress so that it gets noticed on Monday morning.

    August 9, 2008 at 2:09 am Julie P says Let’s do it! I’m putting in for May.

    August 9, 2008 at 2:13 am Venessa says I’m on board….What’s the agenda since we get to set it? 🙂

    August 9, 2008 at 2:18 am Julie P suggests an agenda

    August 9, 2008 at 2:21 am nelsoni mentions early planning

    August 9, 2008 at 2:35 am
    Dennis suggests an agenda

    August 10, 2008 at 6:59 pm Amy writes a reminder for the WHYS team

    what do you think?

  436. 440 selena
    August 10, 2008 at 22:55


    Do you realize how anti woman you sound? Really Steve, women are not the anti-Christ. LOL

    Did a woman take you to the cleaners?

    Life is not black and white. Sometimes the woman is the culprit but in our patriarchal society more often than not it is the man.

    Just look at the latest sex scandal. John Edwards, “I am not the baby’s father!”

    Well, glory be Mr. Edwards, do you really think that matters? You still had an affair with the woman when your wife was struggling with cancer! Whether the baby is yours or not is a moot point. But you are still trying to make yourself out to be better than you are. You surely don’t think much of the women who slept with you, either your wife or your mistress.

    You are a great person, Steve. Can you read some history and try to find the balance?


  437. 441 jamily5
    August 10, 2008 at 22:55

    About the WHYS conference:
    some of our agenda topics should be web conferenced, so those who are not able to come will at least be able to see what goes on.
    May does give us time to plan, save for plane tickets, etc.

  438. 442 Amy
    August 10, 2008 at 23:20

    @ WHYS conference,

    May sounds good to me, but mid to late June would be better. That way my girls are out of school. But the more I think of it, escaping them for a week or however long it might be does sound appealing 🙂 I know that if it ever came to be, I’d do my darnedest to get there. I hope our good friends Lubna and Zainab could find a way from Baghdad too.

  439. 443 selena
    August 10, 2008 at 23:21


    Perhaps we could pay more attention to this maneuver.

    Has it anything to do with Georgia, perchance?

  440. 444 Bryan
    August 10, 2008 at 23:32

    Robert August 10, 2008 at 1:03 pm,

    Thanks for that, though it’s a bit over my head.

    There’s been much debate on the internet over the methods used to determine global warming. What concerns me is that we don’t seem to see this debate on the BBC. Anyone who wants to learn more about the different arguments and approaches has to go elsewhere. Why does the BBC find it appropriate to make its collective mind up on this matter?

    If the oceans are warming I hope that affects Clifton beach in Cape Town. The water is so cold there you go numb a minute after you’re in. Strangely enough, it’s just that one beach. Water at nearby beaches is fine.

    Shirley August 10, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    “His poetry had been held up at one time by Israeli politicians as an example of the myhical Palestinian call for Israelis to be shoved into the sea.”

    Ain’t nothing mythical about that. Happened in ’48, been documented, recorded, evidence is there, just needs looking at. Arab armies, about to invade, called on the Arabs in Israel to leave so they could drive the Jews into the sea and then the Arabs (they were not calling themselves Palestinians then) could return and claim all the land. And ever since then the Arabs have been continuing to try to push the Israelis into the sea. That is proof that neither the Palestinians nor the Arab world will be satisfied even if Israel withdraws to the Tel Aviv beach front. Still too far from the sea.

  441. 445 steve b - uk
    August 10, 2008 at 23:37

    I think we should have a WHYS Congress.

    It could take place every year.

    Imagine, hundreds of us in one place for, say, two weeks.


    Ros, Mark and Choe are probably too busy so we would need to organize it ourselves.

    I propose this idea and London as the first location.

  442. 446 nelsoni
    August 10, 2008 at 23:53

    @ steve b – uk August 10, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    how about Monday to Friday

    lets make the first WHYS congress a reality.

    possible topics: serious issues affecting the areas of the delegates

  443. 447 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 11, 2008 at 01:45

    @ Mohammed Ali
    August 8, 2008 at 9:04 pm


    The question i asked today is can this man sexually satisfy all those women?
    that is a VERY question, i would not asked, this guy!

  444. 448 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 11, 2008 at 02:19

    My show ideas for Monday’s Edition of WORLD HAVE YOUR SAY

    The continuing “war” in Georgia..

    here is my points:
    a]What is the International Community, solution for the situation in the country?
    b]What is the United States going to punish the Russian Government?
    c]Akhazia, is this going to be the next war?
    d]Will the United Nations, going to do next?
    e]Is Russia, wants to change governments in Georgia?
    f]Will there be a CEASEFIRE? And when?
    g]About the refugees on both sides? Who is going to help them?

  445. August 11, 2008 at 02:25

    Science close to unveiling invisible man

    “INVISIBILITY devices, long the realm of science fiction and fantasy, have moved closer after scientists engineered a material that can bend visible light around objects.”


  446. 450 Tom
    August 11, 2008 at 03:42

    @ Google Map Street View,

    An interesting article concerning privacy breach by the new Street View feature.


    In it, it says that Google Map’s Street View has “already exposed a cheating spouse, uncovered a lying neighbour and snapped a man sleeping on the job.”

    My opinion is that since these people are in open public domain, they are ultimately responsible for their own public actions. This is no different from a newspaper photo capturing me jaywalking in a city street, for example.

  447. 451 Tom
    August 11, 2008 at 03:47

    @ Invisibility devices

    The military has surely came a long way from marching stiffly in bright red coats and blaring drums. 🙂

  448. 452 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 11, 2008 at 03:49

    Thanks for the Great Weekend!!!!!

    i am very thankful and happy, that the bbc world have your
    say team [i.e. chloe tilley in particular, because she invited me]….

    i am going to be around, to put my opinions and other ideas on world have your say blogs….

    I am very greatful to the visitors, who submitted there stories to the WHYS Blank Page….

    I am very happy that we made over the 400 posts!

    I am going to bed!

    Thanks for the GREAT weekend

  449. 453 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 11, 2008 at 04:01


    I am now getting ready for bed…..

    Could one of the Moderators, step in and moderating
    any of the comments–that will come in, until the Team in London
    comes in….

    Again, I want to THANK everyone for giving me a very special gift, following my time in Community College for the Summer Semester on my return home to my home county in Upstate New York…..

    Signing off,
    Blank Page 19 Moderator
    BBC World Have Your Say

  450. 454 Count Iblis
    August 11, 2008 at 04:02

    Fromtheworldofdennis, I agree that these are topics that should be discussed. Another thing is that
    the US reaction has caused outrage in Russia which may have consequences for the future of the UN and
    the international system in general.

    According to Russia, the US has completely ignored the fact that the
    initial Georgian attack killed more than 1000 civilians in the capital of South Ossetia.
    According to the people whho fled from South Ossetia to Russia, Georgian soldiers committed massacres
    among civilians there.

    The Russian view is that this justifies their military response and that the US objections over it,
    demanding that Georgian territorial integrity be respected is ridiculous. Especially given the US
    attitude toward military interventions. Compare e.g. the Lebanon war of 2006. That started when
    Hezbollah captured 2 Israeli soldiers, not because Hezbollah occupied Israeli towns, killing 1000
    civilians. Yet that was enough for the US to reject calls for a cease fire at the UN.

    I didn’t recall the US demanding that Israel respect Lebanon’s territorial integrity then.
    Bombing Lebanon back 30 years was a “proportionate response”? If you ask the US it was!

    And now the US is accusing Russia of wanting to change the regime in Georgia! Wasn’t that
    the goal of the US invasion of Iraq, the WMD case being blowed up out of all proportions? Also,
    one can ask the same questions about proportionality of the military response in this case as well.

    You have Saddam who doesn’t stick to some small print of some UN resolutions, which is not exacly
    the same as Saddam being responsible for killing 1000 US civilians. Yet the US position is that this justified
    the military response against Iraq which was on a far different scale than the current Russian
    operations in Georgia.

    The lack of support Russia get’s from the US and other Western governments will probably
    lead to permanent damage in the relations between Russia and the West. But the West needs Russia
    more than Russia needs the West. Russia has cooporated with the West on issues like Iran’s nuclear program.
    Despite the fact that Russia does not believe that Iran’s nuclear program is a threat, they did vite for sanctions against Iran.
    In return, the West allows Russia and also China some flexibility on other issues, e.g. Darfur.

    But this understanding may have evaporated now. So, perhaps Russia will feel less constrained
    when dealing with issues the West cares a lot about, e.g. Iran and Kosovo. In case of Iran,
    Russia could no longer recognize the validity of previous UN resolutions and help Iran to bypass them.

    In case of Kosovo, Russia can discuss with Serbia to implement some form of permanent solution,
    like partition, regardless of what the West thinks about that

  451. 455 Amy
    August 11, 2008 at 04:09

    @ Becoming Invisible,

    I want something soon so I can steal a few moments to myself!

  452. 456 Shirley
    August 11, 2008 at 04:44

    More hijabs at Olympics, but still no prayer room that accommodates women at Olypmic village: the women pray in their dorms.

  453. 457 Shirley
    August 11, 2008 at 04:49

    Tom, or anyone who knows, where might I find pronunciations and translations of Chinese phrases often heard at the Olympics? i.e. “ladies & gentlemen,” “national anthem,” the various sports names, and various numbers?

  454. 458 Tom
    August 11, 2008 at 06:00

    @ Shirley,

    The most often heard phrase we’ll hear at the Olympics will be “zung guo, jia yao!” –> “Go China!” which literally means: “middle kingdom, add oil!”

    The USA is “mei guo”. The first word came from the 2nd syllable of “America”, and in chinese literally means the “beautiful country”!

    England – “ying guo”

    National anthem is “guo ge” (both g’s are pronounced hard)

    Olympics is “Ao yun”.

    Welcome is “kuan ying”

    1 – yi
    2 – er
    3 – san
    4 – xi
    5 – wu
    6 – liu
    7 – qi (chi)
    8 – ba
    9 – jiu
    10 – xu

    Medals – “pai”
    Gold – “jin”
    Silver – “yen”
    Bronze – “tung”

    I don’t think there is an equivalent phrase for “ladies & gentleman”. It’s more common for the PA to address everyone as “every spectator” -> “ge wei guan jung”.

  455. 459 Shirley
    August 11, 2008 at 07:11

    xie xie, Tom

  456. August 11, 2008 at 07:52


    your comment to Steve..

    “Did a woman take you to the cleaners?

    Life is not black and white. Sometimes the woman is the culprit but in our patriarchal society more often than not it is the man.”

    Sweeping statements like that really don’t do any side justice. Such generalisations also show a bias on your side I fear. In counselling over the past decade apart from drugs and depression the main reason people come to see a therapist is relationship problems. The men blame the women and the women blame the men – sometimes this is true and sometimes they just can’t see themselves what harm they did to their partner. I can’t rely on my stats for who did what to whom, but I would not say that men are any worse than women. perhaps women highlight relationship problems while men bite their lips and don’t want look like whimps.. who knows.

    In my experience, men and women can be as bad as each other. Let’s not start pointing fingers and say one is worse than the other, but say that people can be cruel. Regardless of gender it comes down to the person and people can be bad or good depends on who they are and where you find them.

    But if I have to make a definitive observation, I would say that it is always the fault of

  457. 461 Bryan
    August 11, 2008 at 07:59

    Count Iblis August 11, 2008 at 4:02 am

    “Especially given the US
    attitude toward military interventions. Compare e.g. the Lebanon war of 2006. That started when
    Hezbollah captured 2 Israeli soldiers, not because Hezbollah occupied Israeli towns, killing 1000

    You must have been watching BBC and CNN at the time and reading anti-Israel rags like the ‘Independent’ if you really believe that. Hezbollah also killed three Israeli soldiers and a further five who entered Lebanon to try to rescue their comrades. As cover for the capture of the soldiers, Hezbollah fired a barrage of Katyushas at Israeli towns along the border. If that is not an act of war, I don’t know what is.

    This was the last, and most serious, in a series of Hezbollah provocations since the complete Israel withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000.

    A few weeks into the war a BBC reporter made one honest attempt to ascertain the Hezbollah death toll from a spokesman, got the absurd answer of “thirteen,” and questioned that figure in disbelief. After that initial attempt to uncover the truth, the BBC, along with many other Western news organisations, accepted that it was just not done to deviate from Hezbollah propaganda and they dutifully echoed it. Hezbollah doesn’t want its death toll revealed? OK, we’ll just keep quiet about it then, and not even speculate. 1000 Lebanese civilians were killed? That was the total Lebanese death toll and it would mean no Hezbollah were killed. According to the IDF, which was obviously next-best placed to know the facts, around 600 Hezbollah died. That would leave 400 civilians killed. Much too many, obviously, but how do you fight a war when your opponents fire rockets at you from civilian cover?

    Bombing Lebanon back 30 years was a “proportionate response”?

    “Proportionate response” is one of the most ridiculous concepts ever dreamed up. You fight a war to win. Besides, if you really want a proportionate response in the Arab-Israeli conflict, then I guess you’d want Israel to be training “guerrillas” to go into Lebanon to bash little girls to death with rifle butts and blow up Lebanese children in schools and on buses. The IDF pinpointed Katyusha launching sites, Hezbollah headquarters in South Beirut and infrastructure like bridges. The Israelis also dropped leaflets to warn civilians of impending attacks.

    Try not to blur reality with omission and distortion of facts.

  458. 462 Tom
    August 11, 2008 at 08:04

    No worries Shirley. If I could find a page with the Chinese wordings for the sporting events I’ll post a link for you.

  459. 463 selena
    August 11, 2008 at 08:18


    I believe you missed my point. Whether we like to admit it or not, we have always lived, and continue to live, in a patriarchal society.

    On the ground and in specific cases, we are each as bad as each other. There is no black and white!

    But society (and dear Steve) still judges a woman much more harshly than it judges a man.

    No one can escape bias… not even me! 🙂

  460. 464 selena
    August 11, 2008 at 08:24


    I visited Marseilles only once. It is a great historic place to visit.

  461. 465 Bryan
    August 11, 2008 at 08:33

    Count Iblis,

    I meant to add that there are a couple of lumps of truth in that mess of anti-Israel porridge you served up at 4:02 am. You should have fished them out and made another comment out of them. That way your porridge would at least have been smooth and consistent.

  462. August 11, 2008 at 09:43

    @war in S.Ossetia,
    Istarted this topic over the weekend and asked about the ability of the UN to intervene and stop conflicts that involve military powers.
    We saw in the case of Iraq that the UN could do nothing to stop the Americans from violating the sovereign intergraty of Iraq.

    Russia now has follow suit maybe for a more justifiable reason, the invasion of S. Ossetia by Georgia. We are aware of the facts that Georgia shelled and killed innocent civilians in S. Ossetia, destroyed the city. Russia has her citizens there, so they went there defend their citizens and are now extending it into Georgia proper.

  463. 467 Katharina in Ghent
    August 11, 2008 at 09:57

    @ WHYS congres:

    IMO, two weeks will definitely too long. I could imagine something that starts on Thursday and ends Friday night (in the pub, of course). This way, left-behind partners with children won’t have too much to complain about…

  464. August 11, 2008 at 10:12

    Bravo, Bravo! You hit the JACKPOT. Almost 500 comments, what a great debutant you are.

    I think two topics deserve to make the Talking point for Monday:
    First like Dennis said, the war in South osstia.
    1. Was Russia intention only to drive out the Georgian forces out of South Ossetia or to prove its military might and show to other former Soviet states that it is still a military power in the world?.
    2. Does Russia want to prove to America and her allies that in as much as they can violate other countries’ soveriegnty and go with impunity, it can do the same too?
    3. Is Russia simply defending the right of S. Ossetia to cecede from Georgia as Kosovo did to Serbia?

    The second topic in my mind is the Nigerian man marrying 86 wives and having more than 170 children. This could be transform in to some sort of discussion on polygamysm. What threat does it pose to society especially for this man who does not allow his family to go to hospital because of “Healing power for God’?
    What become of the children of such homes where the father who is not working cannot afford to educate them? Who takes their responsibilities?

  465. August 11, 2008 at 10:18

    Hi Chayim
    Akbar here in Tehran
    Do you think Ossetia is a sample of what we should expect from Russia in the future?
    Is Russia justified in thwarting NATO’s thrust into Caucasus?
    Is the US Missile Shield justified in view of bitter opposition in the region?
    The lightening Russian strike on Ossetia, at a time of indecision in US, and bickering in Europe over Iran’s nuclear program has stunned the world.
    Moscow seems to be saying that it must be an integral part of any negotiated deal with any of its former territories. Doesn’t that stand to reason?

  466. 470 Mohammed Ali
    August 11, 2008 at 11:01

    @WHYS Congress,
    I asked, ‘How will regular WHYSers from Africa attend such conference being that we find it difficult to obtain British visa and may not easily afford to and fro tickets?’

    @mods, again please check the spam box.

  467. 471 Mohammed Ali
    August 11, 2008 at 11:47

    @Robert, Dwight and Andrew,

    I must confess that I’m actually enjoying your debate and analyses on the Russia-Georgia conflict since I brought about it over the weekend. I have spent almost all of my morning hours not working but reading your debates.

    The question that comes to my mind on this issue is that ‘Does the US and allies have the moral authority to ask Russia not to violate the territorial integrity of Georgia?’

    What’s about the US backing of Israel for bombing Syria, invading Lebanon, what reasons the US had for entering Vietnam, invading Panama?
    What’s about the invasion and occupation of Iraq by the US and her allies for non-existent reason?

    Should the US and her allies risk Russia’s corporation on key issues like Iran’s “Nuclear program” for Georgia’s senseless invasion of S.Ossetia?

  468. 472 Rick
    August 11, 2008 at 11:49

    Maybe the question should be – How stupid are the Georgian leaders?

  469. August 11, 2008 at 13:39

    Mohammed Ali,

    It is scary in this country how many politicians, and by extension voters, do not consider the “opportunity costs” of their actions? The problem with addressing US morality is that it is all over the place and subjective. Every 4 to 8 years we go through a personality change.

    Because of many of its decisions, this administration has become a threat to many in the world. The question is what will have a new president in January. Will the new face of the US cause our enemies to take their hands off their holsters or will they leave them their, or will they see weakness in our position and choose a more aggressive posture? After “doing it again” will the world ever trust the US?

    Back to the opportunity costs. If the US had not gotten involved in Iraq, would Russia be doing what it is doing now? If the US had not threatened North Korea and Iran, then followed it with an attack on Iraq, would these two countries so aggressively be seeking nuclear technology? If we had taken out Osama Bin Laden “discreetly” with no mention of al Qaeda, would that organization have such world recognition? What if we had never given the support to Saddam Hussein to begin with? Then there are the economic questions that in this globalize world can give more strength to a country then all the military might.

    All of the questions you ask can be considered “morally just” in some perspective, and unjust in others. What is not subjective is the “opportunity cost” of making the decisions that the US made. Your chess pieces can not be in two squares at once.

  470. 474 jamily5
    August 11, 2008 at 13:54

    Whys conference:
    Well, Katharina, I could not see spending that type of money for one or two nights.
    I say about four nights/five days or five nights/six days.
    And, Mohammed brings up a good point,
    some ppl in African and Asian countries would have to get visas and plane tickets might be quite expensive… … don’t know.
    It is worth looking into, though.

  471. 475 steve b - uk
    August 11, 2008 at 16:07

    Re WHYS congress

    thd word ‘congress’ has many bad associations. How about ‘meetings’?

    and how about local meetings rather than a large union?

    lots of individual things – you know, talks, ending in the local bar?

  472. 476 steve b - uk
    August 11, 2008 at 21:32

    re WHYS congress

    Thanks nelsoni

    you and me only aparently.

    Ahh! Back to the drawing board.

  473. 477 Jonathan
    August 11, 2008 at 21:34


    Calling someone’s comments a “lumpy mess of porridge” is arrogant and offensive. Your comments are often coherent, relevant, or accurate in parts, and you might get a better reception if you weren’t so insulting and antagonistic. I know I always look forward to hearing from you, but you’re an acquired taste, and you don’t always make it easy! ‘)

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