FROM ROS:
Welcome to new Daily Email recruits Jon in Portland, Angela in New York, Patrick in Georgia and Samson in London. I hope you settle in quickly. Ones to watch on the blog are Viktor, Mark, Carlos and ZK. Keep them happy and you’ll be doing better than me.
This is our last day in our temporary office before we move downstairs into the swanky new one they’ve been putting together. I’ll stick a photo up on the blog next week to see if you’re impressed. I know they are two computer screens per desk, so it’s difficult to think that you won’t be.
One subject for you today….
HOW MUCH POPULARITY AND INFLUENCE DOES CHRISTIANITY HAVE IN YOUR COUNTRY?
Guests so far include: Cristina Odone, former editor of the Catholic Herald in the UK, Professor David Domke, author of “God Willing? Political Fundamentalism in the White House”, Terry Waite, Anglican Bishop Cyril Okoracha in Nigeria.
Why are we asking? Here are four stories for you to consider from this week:
AMERICA
Mitt Romney wants to be next US President. He’s a Mormon. This is part of what he said yesterday: ‘(Some) seek to remove from the public domain any acknowledgement of God. Religion is seen as merely a private affair with no place in public life. It is as if they are intent on establishing a new religion in America – the religion of secularism. They are wrong.’
We’re hoping to have a Romney supporter to explain why his faith is vital to his candidacy. That he’s calculated he can say this and win (when Tony Blair said he couldn’t fully express his faith for fear of being labelled a ‘nutter’), suggests Christianity retains huge sway in the States.
THE UK
In the UK, a group of Christian evangelicals this week lost their bid to sue the head of the BBC over its broadcast of Jerry Springer the opera. In his judgement, the judge said broadcasters in the UK can’t face prosecution for blasphemy. Some says the ruling highlights the lack of influence that Christianity has. Certainly church attendances have plummeted over the past 50 years.
IRAQ
We’re going to hear the story of one Iraqi doctor in Kirkuk who tells us why thousands of Christians are fleeing his country, and how his faith affects his life every day.
SOUTH KOREA
This website is suggesting the surge in the popularity and influence of evangelical Christians has caused to government to amend legislation on gay rights this week.
Is this a religion whose popularity and influence is in decline around the world?
SPECIAL DEBATES FOR OUR 75TH BIRTHDAY
The 19th December is the big day for the BBC World Service. There are lots of programmes scheduled to mark this, and three of them are falling in WHYS’ time slot. So on Tuesday and Thursday next week, and then Tuesday the week after, rather than us you’ll hear three special debates from New York, Cairo and Delhi. They have already been recorded so you won’t be able to contribute live, but you’re more than welcome to respond to them on the blog.
There’s also going to be a special two hour edition of WHYS on 19th – but more of that next week.
A weekend on the M1 (one of the UK’s busiest and least interesting motorways) beckons for me. Hopefully yours won’t involve as much time staring at the back of the car in front.
Speak to you later.
RSS feed
BBC World Have Your Say 
Too much obviously, when your president says he spoke with God and God advised to invade Iraq I think that says it all, no?
Greg in the US
The last gasp for religion as a political force in Canada ended the late 20th century during the Quiet Revolution in Quebec. This is when the Catholic Church rapidly lost its influence in public affairs.
Since then religion in in public life is not a big issue in Canada and this is one of the things that makes this country such a great place to live. Mosts people immigrate to Canada so they don’t have to wear their religious beliefs on their sleeves.
I still find it amazing that USA politicians have to be seen as “Christian” in order to be legitimate candidates to public office; and when in office engage in such “non Christian” activities like waging war and promoting a global economic regime that generates extreme poverty on 80% of its population.
Christianity plays a vital role in American culture ~ it keeps the rest of us from getting complacent about the power of reason and logic.
John in Salem
Mitt Romney pretty much sums up the insanity and the hypocrisy of the Christian stranglehold in America. Here’s a guy who can only get ahead if he claims to put aside his own religion to defend the rights of “all faiths.” All faiths, that is, except the lack off faith, which is clear from the quote about “the religion of secularism.” However, a Christian candidate like Mike Huckabee gets ahead by announcing he will actively vote according to his faith and apparently not support anyone else’s faith. The Mormon has to capitulate to everyone else’s crazy beliefs while the Baptist can unabashedly pursue his own agenda and get support? Nice.
I’m so sick of the fact that my country insists on the religiosity of a candidate to make him or her fit for the presidency. It’s insane! I have atheist friends who are every bit as moral, every bit — if not more so — concerned with the welfare of the poor and other social issues. Why must we labor under this lie? Because the evangelical vote is so strong and they are so sure they are right. They can’t even prove that Jesus existed…but that’s another debate.
Hi Ros! I write to contribute to the Christianity story. I live in a country where religion is taken very seriously. You have to belong to a particular religion or else…….
Benedict from Nigeria
Hello All,
You know, I had a good friend who, when hearing any question or comment about religion, would make a quick sign of the cross and recite; “my god can beat your god at dominoes.” I think this sums up much of what is terribly amiss with, not the religions per se; but peoples’ practice of them.
later,
g
The fact of intolerance in Jewish, Christian and Muslim world is patently obvious.
Religious slaughter has been going on for millenia.
The Iranians contributed mightily to this. We speak of Zarathrustra (Zoroaster)as the prophet of this intolerant, jealous, capricious god of vengence and legalistic scripture.
The idealization of a god is the projection of a social norm.
The competing idea came from further east and was suppressed by organized religion: each person has within himself the vision of deity and his relation to the universe and it is for each individual to discover it within himself.
Can this be understood, or are we too immersed in our tribal ideologies?
____________________________________-
Morocco is a country where 99% of the population is considered as Muslim. The number of Jews has fallen to less than 5,000 due to their major exodus after Morocco’s independence and the set of Israel. Now there are more than 800,000 Israelis of Moroccan origins.
The Christians who have established churches in its different Moroccan cities, mainly Casablanca, Rabat and Marrakesh were the French. This essentially happened after French colonialism of Morocco which lasted essentially from 1912 to 1956, a short period in comparison with other African countries like Algeria which was colonised for 130 years (1832 – 1962). France attempted to Christianise the Berbers in Morocco, which it considered of non-Arab origin. But its attempt failed. In Rabat, there is still the outstanding Catholic St Paul’s Cathedral in the city centre. Other churches have closed down after the departure of the French. Very few of them remained operational for a shrinking congregation.
In Morocco, preaching Christianity or for a Moroccan to openly convert to it is punishable by law. There were cases of Moroccan being arrested and imprisoned for propagating this religion. The Bible isn’t on sale or available in libraries although there are books that talk about Christianity or that compares Christianity to Islam. Many Europeans are coming to settle in Morocco, especially in big cities like Marrakesh. But the majority of them don’t practice any religion at all. They lead a secular life. But they are free to practice their faith as long as they don’t ask Moroccan Muslims to convert to Christianity. In a video tape, Al Zawahiri of Al Qaeda asked the Moroccans to attack the Europeans settling in Morocco as he saw them as crusaders. This hasn’t been heeded. The Europeans feel more secure in Morocco as the Moroccans in general have religious tolerance. In Marrakesh old city, the Europeans live side by side with the local inhabitants without any feeling of harassment.
In the Arab world, the category of Christians that suffer most are those in Egypt as they are still viewed as second class citizens. Many feel obliged to hide their religion to get a good job.
In Iraq, it is evident that the Christians can’t feel secure. Under Saddam, they enjoyed full protection. Now with the infiltration of extremists like Al Qaeda, they are easy targets as for them the “Islamisation” of Iraq starts with eradicating the “infidels”.
As long as Christians keep to their religion without interfering in the faith of the others, they shouldn’t be harassed. They have the right to enjoy religious freedom. What makes relations between people of different faiths sour are political influences and ideologies. Christians in Iraq can feel better at home when the political problems are settled. If not, they will continue being a scapegoat for those who seek to attribute to them all the ills they suffer from.
Man wants to know how he fits in with the universe. His brain is so structured. The ordinary person invokes myths and anthropomorphic spirits to explain his universe. Religious specialists organize religion to satisfy organizational goals and the desires of the believers.
The Jews adopted from Zoroaster the ideas of a jealous, intolerant, vengeful deity and of legalistic scripture. Judaism, Islam and much Christianity have responded with violence toward the “other” ever since.
The foregoing is a simple statement of historical fact. However, the WHYS “moderators” have been so intimidated by the strident screaming of intolerant tribalists that they have not published it. If there is some factual objection, perhaps we can address the question and document the response.
I think politicians will say anything to get elected. In the USA now, you have to say you are christians, and have a “relationship with god” to get elected, but I doubt any of these educated people who run for office actually really believe. Sure, they are dishonest for saying something they don’t believe, and I think it’s fair to hold that against them. But seriously, what adult, educated person believes in such fairy tales? If they really did, then they wouldn’t fear death, wouldn’t take medications, etc because they get to go to heaven, and heaven is wonderful, and earth sucks. The reality is, we all fear death because we know it just leads to an eternity of nothingness. You will never feel joy, sadness, lust, passion, because you are GONE, dead. If someone truly believed, they would have absolutely no fear of death and would welcome it. If you had a child die, you would be happy because they are in heaven. All rational people know this is just a fairy tale. So when I hear people talking about their faith and politics, they are either (1) crazy, or (2) dishonest. Either way, I wouldn’t want to vote for them.
To the “religious” readers on here. If Jesus or mohammed came today, reather than 2000 or 1400 years ago, and said they were messengers of God, what do you think people would do? That’s right, lock them up in an insane asylum. so why do you believe without hesitation the writigns of people from 2000 years ago without doubt? If Jesus came today, he’d be locked up.
Hi Ros,
Congratulations on the new office. I hope you’ll put as many pictures as possible of the office from all the angles and why not a video on Youtube.
Regards,
Abdelilah Boukili,
Marrakesh, Morocco
Christianity (along with many other faiths) has been in a decline for many years now. Evidence of this in UK is born out by the increasing number of churches that close, are sold or fall into disrepair. Formal worship in general has reduced, due in part, to educational systems that have largely discouraged formal worship, by promoting the theory of evolution over and above it.
However, people have to want formal worship – it is not something that can be forced upon any people. In shot, there is no compulsion in matters of faith.
When believing societies of the past are compared to the same, more recent societies – the results are clear for all to see.
It is my belief that faith is a positive, regulating and moral component of human community development (whatever the faith may be).
Kind regards
Christianity is not on the wane. What a ridiculous question and what is it about these four stories that you think insinuate that it might be? These are four stories about Christianity and that’s all that they have in common. Certainly the story about S. Korea shows Christianity or Christian values in ascendancy.
And the fact that Romney has to address his Mormonism is evidence of how seriously religion is taken as part of American politics. Candidates in the US are constantly asked about their religious views.
As for Christians fleeing persecution in Iraq—the very fact that there are Christians in Iraq is amazing. Also, since 9/11, the number of Christians has grown in this country and this is due to Muslims converting. I have friends who work there and they’ve told me about an increase in the numbers of people becoming Christian. Perhaps that’s why the muslims are angry? Anyone who converts from Islam to Christianity in Muslim countries or even here in the UK (per a recent Times story about a woman in hiding for years because she converted to Christianity) are subject to death by families, friends and relatives. It is considered a sin punishable by death and yet people still convert. So that doesn’t strike me as a faith that is on the wane.
And your story about evangelicals losing the court battle here in the UK with respect to Jerry Springer does not mean Christianity is on the wane at all. Christians here in the UK are divided amongst themselves as to whether or not to contest the Jerry Springer thing. Many Christians, many evangelical Christians included, recognize that freedom of speech is more important than political correctness.
You wouldn’t even dare to ask a question like this about Islam. Would you ask the question, because Sudan backed down on teddy bear gate that Islam is on the retreat? I dare you to ask that question. No, you all would probably be too afraid because you might start a wave of violent protests around the world and you’d be too terrified of inciting religious hatred.
This is what irritates me about journalists when it comes to any religion. because you all are mostly secular and some are even secularists, you really don’t know how to ask the right questions. A better question would be, given your four exemplars, what role does religion still play in public life? How much influence does it have to shape politics? What does religion have to say to politics? Etc.
For decades secularists have thought religion would die out in light of modern enlightenment thinking. Peter Berger, a pre-eminent sociologist of religion, has documented that religion, far from going a way is on the increase around the world. Materialism has not solved the world’s problems. Science hasn’t provided all the answers. People just use science and technology to figure out better ways to destroy people. The 20th century was one of the worst in human history in terms of genoicide, which points to a failure in the faith of progress and science for humanity to improve itself.
What people are in search of is a spirituality and some sort of sense of belonging and meaning and purpose to something greater than themselves. This has been true of the human condition since the year dot and isn’t likely to change. This quest for spirituality has led to the founding of religions and various expressions of this quest. But it will never go away.
Well here in Britain most people identify themselves as Christian (courtesy of the last census) though they are not especially demonstrative about it (an undemonstrativeness that extends to not attending church very often). But church-going is not the essence of Christianity, or even essential to it – n.b. the Quakers – and Christianity’s standing in the UK ought not to be judged solely on that account.
Christianity – Roman, Anglican and ‘dissenting’ – is an integral part of Britain’s moral, historical, spiritual and cultural heritage. It has been the single greatest shaper of British identity, and continues to shape the attitudes of many people who do not identify themselves as Christian or who even call themselves atheists (Bertrand Russell, a staunch Voltairean atheist, confessed, in his autobiography as I recall, that what he stood for were, at bottom, certain basic Christian values). Christian influence is pervasive in our culture, though Christianity is not at the present time popular.
Outside of Western Europe, from the accounts I hear of and read about, Christianity is very popular indeed. But as any Christian will tell you, the truth of the religion has absolutely no connection with the numbers who believe it, and popularity is nothing unless it translates into Christian conduct and leads to a society suffused with the spirit of Chris . No particular judgement is to be drawn from the mere popularity of Christianity in some parts of the world, anymore than from its lack of popularity in Britain and Europe.
I for one think that Christian influence has and continues to be a benefit to British society, and to every other society with a Christian tradition. One only has to spend a few weeks in most non-Christian countries to come away with a renewed appreciation of the kinder, gentler, and more humane society that one has left behind, a society whose moral virtues are nothing more than secularised expressions of Christ’s teaching. Christianity has been an overwhelming and continuing force for civilisation and goodness in a way that no other faith can claim. It has raised men from barbarism where some other religions have reduced them to savagery. If it is in retreat anywhere in the world that should be a matter for regret.
Re Mr Romney: the statement you quote from him is fine. The Americans are largely a Christian people who continue to live by their Christian traditions. There is no reason why Christian values should not find expression in American politics. Mr Romney’s problem is that he belongs to a sect that many doubt can be classified as orthodox Christians. The Mormons have great achievements to their credit, but they still strike many as belonging in the same category as Moonies. I don’t know enough about Mormonism to say whether this is unfair. The parallels with JFK are misleading, since with him the issue – for some – was whether a Roman Catholic could also be a loyal American, or whether obedience to the Vatican would count for more than duty to the American republic. Of course, there was no conflict in reality since JFK was not a man of deep religious conviction.
Blair’s problem wasn’t that he was a man of faith but that he was a crypto-Catholic who, while in office, let people believe – as long as he could – that he was an Anglican, for tactical reasons. From his point of view he was right to do so. For most British people Anglicanism is as much Christianity as any reasonable person could need. To convert, or wish to convert, to Catholicism naturally causes people to think that here’s a man who takes his religion far too seriously, a fanatic, or – even – a ‘nutter’. This is a healthy instinct and at least discourages the kind of sentimental and hypocritical piety that obliges American politicians to parade their faith in nauseatingly self-conscious ways. What Blair has publicly said about this faith hasn’t reflected very well on him, at least for those who compare it with his conduct. To live according to Christian values and keep quiet about it would have been wiser. Now he comes across as a pious hypocrite (‘God would have wanted me to take away Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction… if they’d ever existed.’)
Re the BBC’s triumphant defence of blasphemy. The influence of Christianity is such that Christians will not seek to attack BBC executives in their homes, murder them on the streets, harass them at every opportunity etc. That’s why the BBC will always happily insult Christianity while taking especial care to treat Islam with deference and exaggerated respect (i.e. with fear). Though Christians deplored what the BBC had done, very few were moved to make an issue of it after the event. The people who brought the legal action were unrepresentative in that respect. They were also a little naive in thinking that blasphemy laws are anything but a dead letter nowadays (not that you’d ever know that from the way bigoted atheists and fantaical rationalists rave on about such laws placing intolerable fetters on freedom of thought, being a relic of the middle ages, etc ).
Re the Iraqi Christians fleeing for their lives: hasn’t this been included under the wrong WHYS debate? Surely it belongs under the heading ‘Is Islam in Advance? And What Does it Mean for Non-Muslims.’
Chriatianity is highly influential in the Libarian society to the extent that church leaders bring the president to book for visiting other religious sites. But what is puzzling is that most of those who claimed to be christians are the wicked ones in the society.
Ros and WHYS,
In the US Christianity and religion are synonymous. However, everybody wheres their “Christianity on their sleeve” ready to whip out when they need to bolster a point or patriotism. They are ready to follow the beliefs of their prophet Jesus Christ when it come to celebrating holidays off from work, spending money. They are willing to cite the country’s Christian roots. But when it comes to actually practicing the beliefs, understanding the teachings, and following the doctrine they drop all relation to it. The ideas of tolerance, forgiveness, and self sacrifice are hard to find in the US policy or in a US shopping mall parking lot at Christmas time.
If you poled the young children of this “Christian Nation” I am willing to bet nearly 100% of them know who Santa clause is and why he comes, but not one of them know who Jesus Christ is and why He came.
Dwight in Detroit
While it has no proper place in the functioning of government, religion seems to be a pre-requisite for serious political support. One simply must be Christian and support Israel in the US to get elected. If you do not support Israel politically (and nearly unconditionally) you are falsely labelled as anti-semitic, and if you do not at least passingly profess your faith you are seen as having no moral compass by those that do have popular guidelines to refer to.
Both of these “flaws” will likely cost significantly in various voting blocs, and most political races are so close (ie Gore v Buch) these days that they would be significantly affected by disaffection of any voters. I fear it will be some time before we mature enough to disregard religion in the voting booth.
Kelly in Oregon
I’m the U.S., yes it does influence. The only reason that George W. Bush won both elections is that there are so many dogmatic Christians in the “Red States” (where the majority of people are republican). I would play Xbox Live online gaming and start discussions with average southern republicans all over the U.S. who said they were voting for Bush because of his religious views. “The bible says abortion and gay marriage is illegal, and Bush is against that, so I’m voting for him.” was the BIGGEST response to my surprise. I would bring up the fact that he authorized an attack that would end up killing a huge amount of innocent Iraqi women and children, which I think is MUCH WORSE than abortion, but the slaughter of these “pro-terrorists” didn’t matter. So yes, when you look at America as a whole, the quiet and simple non-suburban/non-city “folk”, Christianity still packs a HUGE punch.
-Anthony, Los Angeles, California
Hi evereybody,
Where I live christianity in general has been declining rapidly in evereyday live. Churches are mostly visited by people of older age. Since catholic education has been reformed to the example of state schools young people, my generation for instance, has not much knowledge of the bible or is actually in any way intrested in these things. At the other hand I know some people whoms parents have educated them in such a way religion has become something ‘real’ in the way they are certain they will be sent to hell if they have sex before marriage, etc. When they age and are lucky they stop believing in fairy tales.
The influence of christianity in politics only reveals itself in ethical debates such as abortion of pregnency or euthanasia. The christian democratic party has more conservative views in this matter.
Personally I’m happy I live in these circumstances that allow me to form my own mind without being held back by some religious dogma as it was in the past when catholic church still had influence in great scale. The problem of religions, to me, is that they claim and probably belief they have the only truth wich I simply can’t believe. Religion (I’m not saying christianity) has no credibility to me. Personally I think it is a dangerous thing when used by the wrong people. Look at the way we link Islam (wich means peace) to terrorism, christiannity with crusades…
At the other hand with christianity/religion disappearing in our lives there is left a gap concerning moral values and a danger to become decadent in some ways.
Grtz JC, Belgium
PS: Is the Anglican religion still state religion in Brittain?
I’m always amused to see that whenever religion is debated on WHYS the most intolerant and intentionally offensive opinions usually come from the atheists and self-styled ‘rationalists.’ The fact is that many Western atheists are less motivated by disbelief in God than by a hatred (sometimes fanatical) of Christianity, and we know from the views of men like Dawkins that they are second to none in their wish to control, dominate and persecute those who differ from their opinions.
A suggestion for a WHYS debate: ‘Is Atheism The New Intolerance?’
Xie_Ming: eh? So it’s all Zoroaster’s fault? If only you knew how harping on about this character sounds.
Abdelilah Boukili wrote ‘In Morocco, preaching Christianity or for a Moroccan to openly convert to it is punishable by law. There were cases of Moroccan being arrested and imprisoned for propagating this religion. The Bible isn’t on sale or available in libraries…’. He also wrote
‘…the Moroccans in general have religious tolerance.’ You don’t need the power of rational thought claimed by atheists to detect a contradiction between these two statements. The first statement is almost universally true of the muslim world. The second statment, I fear, is an agreeable fiction, disproved by the first.
Another WHYS debate: the extent of religious intolerance in the muslim world (and, for that matter, religious intolerance amongst muslim migrants settled in the West). Something tells me that, unlike their Western counterparts, atheists in the muslim world will have much less to say for themselves in this debate.
Kelly, get over yourself. The jews…. did you froth at the mouth? Kelly, can you provide ONE example of your claim of someone running for president who wasn’t 100% pro israel who was then “falsely labelled anti-semitic”???? That’s right, you can’t, because you lied and hate to make up BS to make an argument because you have no argument.
PS: Kelly in Oregon, you and Xie Ming would make a great couple! He’s in British Columbia, that’s not that far from you! You can both froth at the mouth about Israel all day long.
There is really no scope for discussion about freedom of religion in Israel, is there? Fundamentalist madness controls there even more than in the United States.
I suspect that the degree of tolerance varies greatly in the Muslim world, depending on the locale. Muslim Cordoba was a very tolerant centre of Western civilization when Christians were behaving as intolerant, murdering, fanatics. It had the greatest library in the World. A Muslim fanatic came over from the Megreb and changed all that.
When the Hebrews brought back from Babylon the Iranian ideas (which we attribute to Zoroaster or Zarathrustra), intolerance, vengence, tribalism and scriptural legalism came to characterize Judaism. Most of it then spread to Islam and Christianity.
In the Hellenistic era, the ferment of religious ideologies included a large component of Eastern thought reflected in the congregationalism of different groups, including those called Gnostics. The fundamental idea was the essentially Quaker one- that the divine spirit exists within the individual. The reliqious search being to discover that divine spirit within oneself.
Traces of this can be found in some of the suppressed Gnostic Gospels and in Luke 17:21.
Constantine and the First Council of Nicaea in 325 changed Christians from congregationalists and individuals to obedient sheep who were to accept the Bishop of the Apostolic Succession as the representive of God on Earth. Book burning and death penalties for banned religious literature or other independent thought soon followed. Zoroaster’s message won and we have suffered for it ever since.
Simple folk must believe in anthropomorphic spirits and myths. As Pope Boniface VIII explained: “We must think as educated folk and speak as the common peeople do”. That was his summary after he explicitly denied most of the Apostlic Creed.
Organized religion is a system of symbols. The symbols are easily shifted, combined and redefined to form different ideologies. If one could ease off and realize this, it would be a great step forward for tolerant civilization.
To VicorK, comment #20,
There is no contradiction in what I said about religious tolerance in Morocco. It’s true converting to another religion by a Muslim is punishable by law. But with the Moroccans in their interactions with people of other faiths, especially Christians, there is no sign of religious discrimination. They accept one another. You should know about the highest protections Jews enjoy in Morocco. There were Jewish ministers in the Moroccan government. One of the advisers to the Moroccan King is André Azoulay, a Jew. In Marrakesh there is a big 500 years old Jewish cemetery in a popular neighborhood. Jews of Moroccan origins who migrated to Israel or another part of the world still hold their Moroccan nationality. they can come back at any time. many notable Israeli politicians are of Moroccan origin. The wife of the Israeli president Simon Peres is a Moroccan Jew. Just search for yourself.
Christians are free to practice their religion. This is to show you that in Morocco there is no animosity between Christians and Muslims. The first visit by a Pope to a Muslim country was by John Paul to Morocco. The former French president Jacques Chirac has settled in Morocco at the end of his presidency. Winston Churchill was one of the great admirers of Marrakesh. In the hotel (Mamounia) where he used to stay there is still Winston Churchill suite, one of the most expensive ones.
I want to convey to you that you have erroneous views of Islam and Muslims. You may develop your views of them from news reports like the teddy bear teacher in Sudan or the Saudi girls sentenced to 200 lashes. In Morocco, there are no such insolent cases. Nobody has ever been beheaded, had his hand cut off or lashed as it is the case in Saudi Arabia. Geographically, Morocco is closer to Europe than to other Muslim countries geographically and culturally. In Morocco, Christians are on best terms with Muslims. There aren’t special districts for them. In Morocco, there is no obligation to show faith in public to be accepted.
Are you convinced that in Morocco, people of different faiths aren’t persecuted or discriminated against. They can live side by side although Moroccan Muslims can’t shift their faith for another?
Christianity is the second largest religion (behind Buddhism/Taoism and just ahead of Islam) in Singapore and it is a significant majority. However, religion has very little place in Singapore politics – or even out in the open for the most part. People just observe their religions, go to their churches, mosques, and temples, but it’s never made a big deal of. It’s not a common topic to talk about, either.
As for the U.S., it’s already so hard to elect a Catholic to be President (only President Kennedy to date!) – I can’t ever imagine a time the ‘leader of the free world’ will be non-Christian.
Abdelilah: Shimon Peres is not Moroccan. You meant Amir Peretz who used to be the Labor Leader and Defense Minister.
Ross,
Congrats on the new office.
Defintely NOT! on the contrary, Christianities’ influence is getting stonger by the day. More and more people are going to church these days in most parts of the world. In Kenya where I come from, 80% of the population is Christian according to statistics and going by the number of churches being established it goes to show the extent of it influnce.
We are 20 days to elections and every other sunday the presidential candindates are attending church since they know that presenting an image of a God-fearing man will augur well with the electorate majority of whom are Chrsitians. Recently Kenya’s president called for a national day of prayer and thanksgiving, so in my opinion Christianities’ influence is as strong as ever if not increasing, at least in my part of the world.
Hilum, in Nairobi, Kenya.
Wikipedia is in fact very reliable for people who already know the basics about a subject. Let’s e.g. look at this table This table
and compare it to
An earlier version
A lay person would not be able to tell which version is correct. But then, that lay person would not use the information in the table anyway. If you know something about the subject (and all you need to do for that is read the rest of the article), you would be able to tell that the former version is correct (the table displays critical T values corresponding to the listed probabilities, but if the probablity is 50% then because of the symmetry of the probability distribution the critical values must be zero. To insiders it is clear that the editor who edited the table this way confused one sided with two sided critical values).
So, if I’m at a place where I need this information and I don’t have access to a computer with statistic software, I could still log on to the internet and read this webpage. If it displays the version that shows the 50% on the first entry of the first row, then I know that that is the incorrect version, and I will click on the history link and go to the correct version.
The fact that everyone can edit wikipedia actually makes wikipedia more reliable than most other sources. Unlike other sources, errors can be easily corrected like in the above case. An example:
Formula 14 on this mathworld page contains an erroneous minus sign in front of the summation
However, this wikipedia page gives the correct formula.
Mathworld does correct information if you email them, but this is a very slow process. In this case they did not correct the information, presumably because the error is contained in the cited source and they won’t check the computations in published sources. The editors of wiki articles, on the other hand, are more likely to spot such errors themselves and correct them promptly.
This is getting tiresome. Characterizing all non-believers as people who hate Christianity or all Christians as Bible-thumping zealots or all Muslims as fanatics gets us nowhere. My previous comment about reason and logic was a gentle poke at religion and is taken as such by my Christian friends who don’t preach to me about their faith. We agree to disagree and humor is essential to intelligent discussion.
Like I’ve said before ~ World Have Your Insult is on a different network.
John in Salem
To VictorK and anyone else who touts atheism as the “new intolerance”:
You have got to be kidding me. Are you so completely unaware of the affect Christianity has had on nonbelievers that you would begrudge them their anger over centuries of consistent abuse? They might not be burning crosses on the lawns of atheists but they sure as hell are discriminating against atheists more than any other minority in this country. The prejudice is unbearable. Do you honestly think that a person who has suffered this long isn’t going to eventually let you know exactly how angry he or she is? It’s justified anger. There has been zero kindness or consideration to people who choose a rational life. NONE. Rationalists and humanists have had to listen to the irrational crap of Christians and demi-believers for ages, suffering insults upon injuries for their skepticism. Most of the atheists I know don’t even tell people they’re atheist because of the terrible prejudice. They’ve learned that Christians — and others, too — are often judgmental jerks who will accuse them of baby eating and car burning simply because they are honest about their experiences and true to their good sense.
Get over your indignation. Open your eyes and see that maybe you and others have been discriminatory and hateful yourselves, projecting that hatefulness onto atheists who are merely now speaking up for themselves because they see the world is in danger and the terrible places where religious belief is taking us.
Well, as it seems some of the recent posts are getting a bit off track, can I suggest that we look at WHY religion needs to be an issue at all? Someone earlier made a point about religions being fairy tales, and I have often used the example of what would people say if, today, in 2007, someone came along saying they were the magically conceived son of a divine, omnipotent, omniscient being. That person would be psychologically evaluated and treated for the psychosis they are demonstrating. Or would they?
Could it be that a certain large subset of humans will ALWAYS need some sort of “greater power” in their lives? These may be people who are living lives of “quiet desperation”, or they may be those who cannot fathom the complexities of the world around them and therefore need a safe, simple answer to “everything.” There have been studies of the human brain that show that about 95% of people have brains that are ‘hard-wired’ to believe in the mystical stuff. (Here’s a link to a Newsweek article that summarized a lot of the research at the time: https://notes.utk.edu/bio/greenberg.nsf/0/e938e40271ec394c85256a4a00626175?OpenDocument) That means that most of humanity has some evolutionary basis for believing in little green men, or Santa Claus, or Buddha or Allah or God. The bigger question is – WHY? What evolutionary purpose does it serve to believe in things that are clearly irrational and not supported by any evidence whatsoever? (In fact, as I often argue with believers, there’s more proof of Santa Claus than there is of God.) Arguments have been made by sharper minds than mine, that religions served to bond groups of people, to provide a sense of community and shared purpose, at a time in our past when we (humans) were at great risk of being eaten, or starving, or not getting shelter, etc. So it made sense to have a group of people with whom you shared a bunch of “insider’s stories.” But it doesn’t make any of those stories and beliefs true. They are just what we tell each other to get us through the hard times.
But now, at least here in America, we are living the life of plenty (in fact, the life of excess). The vast majority of people do not have to worry about food, or shelter, or beign eaten by a predator. And yet mythical beliefs continue. WHY? Why do people still feel a need to seek comfort from their psychological “blankie”? If we could answer that question, we might be able to get people to address their needs and fears from a rational basis, and we could finally rid the world of the deleterious effects of religion. We should keep the stories around, for amusement and for the limited instructional benefits they offer, just like we retell Greek myths and the Santa Claus story. But to take them literally, and to actually fight over them and kill “others” because of them, is surely the greatest flaw in our species at this point.
Oh well, it does occasionally get lonely out here, as one of the “5%”. Anyone care to join me? All you need to do is turn on the light…
Mike
Also, if I might add that there seems to be a need in America for politicians to seem “like the common-folk”. Since it’s generally perceived that “liberal elites” are non-religious, and Americans don’t want to view themselves as “elite”, or as ruled by “elites”, then politicos must seem like the commoners, not better than them. This is also, I believe, a large part of the reason why Bush got “elected” (by the Supreme Court) in 2000 – he was consistently viewed as “someone I could have a beer with.” Never mind that no average American will ever share a drink with a president. What was important was that he was viewed as a “regular guy” – despite his silver-spoon upbringing and life of privilege – while Al Gore was constantly disparaged for being “too smart.” Can there be such a thing? Can someone be “too smart?” What does that say about a country who does not want someone “too smart” to lead them?
Sorry for the extended rant, but religion is just a bit of a hot-topic to me.
From George in the States:
1. “Is Christianity in retreat?”
When did you stop beating your wife?
You may have chosen the wrong phrasing for the question which presumes something then asks a question of the presumption.
Is Christianity under attack? may be a better question.
Under attack, yes, in retreat no.
Last week a poll found that 75% of Americans believe in God and that Jesus is the Son of God/or God.
Revival is sweeping parts of the world outside of the UK.
2. How much influence does Christianity have in my country?
The intense anti-christian media time and anti-Christian groups loud voices aside the USA population overwhelmingly profess faith in God and Christ.
If you do not believe this review all elections for president in US history including the last and the one up-coming.
Anti-Christian organizations, cults, and thinly vieled religions of worship of self, anything goes, ad nauseum rant and pontificate but the vast majority of Americans hold Christian beliefs and Christian principals dear.
3. Romney-
He wisely spoke the points of agreement with Christianity in America but did not touch explaining or attempting to defend the Mormon religion.
It is extremely doubtful he can win because Christians hold Mormons to be a cult-like divergence from the central doctrines of Christianity.
He did not defend the Mormon faith because the doctrine would only pour gasoline on this difference.
4. UK Christianity-
When the British Empire was expanding and the sun never set on it not only was Britain a robustly Christian nation but sent out devout missionaries to the ends of the earth to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Christian nation ruling the world vs the UK today with moderate at best Christian belief and practices?
USA rock solid Christian and primere world power vs public mockery of Christianity and in decline as if someone pulled the plug.
You decide.
There are fundamental Spiritual Laws with automatic effects exactly as there are physical laws.
Violate God’s Spiritual laws- blessings are automatically cut off.
Embrace God’s Spiritual laws- blessings flow.
Blessed vs zero blessings.
This is no different from shouting gravity does not exist and stepping off a building top. The result is inevitable.
Iraq-
Christians go through cycles of persecution.
It is promised by Christ.
Korea-
When a nation reaches critial mass of faith in Christ, they are going to prosper and be blessed as a nation and as a people.
God’s ways and thoughts are God’s.
You can fight them or not.
It does not change what God states in the Bible at all.
We are only men.
Romney, like virtually every politician, is a narcissist. By nature, these people crave attention and love power, and will say and do anything to be in power. When Romney was the governor of Massachusetts, a very liberal state, he was pro abortion, because that’s how you get elected there. Now that the’s running for President, on the republican ticket, you have to be anti abortion, so voila, he’s suddenly against abortion. Anything to get votes. Politicians will say and do ANYTHING to get elected. Don’t focus on his religion, don’t focus on any candidate’s religion, but rather focus on their personality disorders that make them say and do anything to get elected. Read up on narcissistic personality disorder and histrionic personality disorders, and you’ll recognize how politicians fit the bill really well for these mental maladies.
Steve
USA
as the rate of attendance falls in europe and america the attendance in africa, the caribbean and south america has grown unimaginably. christianity is becoming secular in a more liberal world. the world connot accept the religious laws and regulations laid out for them so they quickly chose not to be with christianity. religion will never die!!!! christianity will never die and also catholics will live on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Leon
If Hitler was allowed to come to a trade conference, would the other countries run to treat him with the respect of sitting at the table with him so that they would not loose money in trade?
Aescott
mitt romney is a joke.
he calls secularism a religion then says it’s wrong… in a speech about religious freedom.
he also stated that to have freedom you must have religion, and we are all equal because we are children under god. in his speech he connected human rights and human dignity to having an immortal soul and having religion…
so what about atheists and agnostics, and polytheists?
they don’t deserve freedom? because they fail to believe in the invisible man in the sky? there’s a religious test to be considered human?!? RIDICULOUS!
he is nothing but a pathetic panderer trying to hide his mormon spots so he can be palatable to the evangelical vote.
humans have both dignity and rights regardless of what fairy story they believe in or choose not to!
religion in retreat!? i can only WISH.
WHYS listeners,
Christianity is in decline, in a massive way in the US. I’ve got a soul or a spirit or whatever, why would I want to have someone in control of that other than me?
The media explains that Christianity is strong, people are heavily attending some religious organization, that is pretend.
Joey
All over the USA
I think Mitt Romney’s speech has been mischaracterized. Romney’s speech was to assuage the concerns of Christians who don’t consider a Mormanism a Christian religion. Romney was very careful not to call himself a “Christian”, but did say Christ was a his savior. I’m not a Christian, so it’s all minutiae to me.
If you look at current government activities and popular culture in the US, you can see that it barely resembles the output of a Christian nation. The steadfast majority of Americans will cling to what they believe is a Christian heritage when in actuality they are practicing morally ambiguous materialism at best. Christianity has simply become another insubstantial consumer product in the US and everyone seems to have their favorite name brand. If there truly was influence from Christ’s teachings, we would be living in a Socialist state.
Thanks,
Ken in Cleveland
Any literate adult who still ascribes to a belief system is suffering from some kind of cognitive disorder or emotional dysfunction. The fact that this collective delusion still holds any weight in society says much about the sorry state of mob rule that we are regrettably still burdened with. Nothing is slowing our progress as a civilised species more than religion, since religion is the inevitable rallying point and justification for violence.
Mark
Christianity, like all religions, is a crutch for certain members of society. Mankind is finally realizing that, like a person with a crutch, our progress is slowed by religion!
What? Christianity in decline? If anyone thinks that Christianity is in decline he only needs to look at the power of Evangelical Christians in the current White House. They shape the political debate on the so-called Culture Wars.
If you see the influence of Fundamentalist Christians in my native Nigeria, then you’ll see that while Christianity may be in decline in Western Europe, it has morphed into a powerful social force in Africa.
Do we need a religion to be ethical, most politicians claim themselves to be christian yet they go ahead and start wars, I’m an atheist, I’m far more ethical thatn there people.
I beliece we don’t need religion to merge with the state, many people fought for this, we have many brilliant thinkers like Hobbes on which we base the Western political systems, we shouldn’t go back should we?
So what if Christianity is mocked? Freedom of speech and freedom to poke fun at our follies-religion included-is a sacrosanct right in a democracy. We cannot limit the rights of men and women to freedom of expression because of fear of insulting and unseen Deity.
In the Name of God , the Beneficient, The Merciful.
***************************************************
In the Name of God , the Beneficient, The Merciful.
In Islam Merciful and Forgiveness is important
Love In Islam :
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=love&size=First+100
Forgiveness :
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=forgive&size=First+100
Search further here :
http://www.al-islam.org
Listen Here :
http://www.radiofatima.com
Thanks
Your guest states Christianity is a religion of love…….. I deeply beg to differ. It is a religion of fear. Fear is used to control each Xtian’s life so they remain in the religion. A religion of Love? Just try being NOT being a member of an Abrahamic faith and see how much love they spread. They will love you as long as you are willing to give your immortal soul to their god.
As a former indoctrinated member of the cult of Christianity I can now proudly say I have escaped – soul intact and a life of peace is now mine. I do not live in fear anymore. Sadly, their push to control the US according to their religious beliefs has created in me true bigotry – I take nothing a Xtian says seriously. Actions speak and what Xtians are saying in their actions is Hate.
The rise of religion in Africa and developing makes sense, Dogmatic religion is one of the tools of state building. It has the effect of uniting people from different tribes and ethnic grops.
As we move beyond the nation state, religion has no more social and political purpose. People can beleive in whatever, but it should not be the basis for public policy in a world already divided by religious belief systems.
Christianity may look in decline if congregation attendance is the barometer. But it still inherent even in Western societies. Christmas is still celebrated although it has become for many a shopping and a party occasion. Its messages are still conveyed through the media.
There are preachers who convey their messages through different means. Christian values are still dominant, especially in many African countries. Poor people find their solace in religion. In the West, Christianity is in decline because of the material pursuits. Sunday or the weekend is no longer a time to get near to God but to enjoy the pleasures of the mundane world. In view of the different choices material pursuits offer, Christianity is marginalised. People fall asleep watching TV instead of reading the Bible.
Religion isn’t falling just in Christian countries but in different countries because new lifestyles. While religion is an escape for some, for others it is a set of fetters from which they want to liberate themselves. For those who don’t like “dos” and don’ts” find their comfort in no practising any religion at all. Not to forget those who like to get the best of all religions. The fact that there are new types of religions like Scientology shows many people aren’t against religion but they’re seeking a religion that suits them even if it isn’t revealed to them like Christianity it is the creation of their own spiritual leaning.
When Romney says he will lead for people of all faiths, does this mean muslims and athiests as well? Oh, I guess not – we dont count here in the US.
AZ, my fictional deity is better than your fictional deity!
I get depressed when I hear people arguing about respective religions: they are all primitive superstitious escapist attempts to try and understand what is beyond our comprehension and seem to be no more than something to nervously cling to.
Gerry Watts, Tasmania, Australia
One of the problems with Christianity is that it is becoming the forbiden religion in America. If you are a Christian you have to put your child in a Christian school and speak to only Christians, or people will put you down for not being open minded when you live by your Christian values and speak of Christ. I am fortunate to work in a place where I can listen to Christian music, but in other places of business you can listen to rap and music that talks of immoral things however you can not listen to music that praises God. It makes it difficult to live by and practice Christian ways.
Annicca Jones
Portland, Oregon
One of you caller’s said “Faith makes us who we are, faith is what drives us.” This is not true. Faith is a reason to be a good person, but not having faith does not mean you are a bad person. You can be a good person and not have a religious faith.
It is a fallacious assumption, that many religious persons hold, that one without a religious faith is amoral, and that assumption will keep an agnostic/atheist holding the office of the president for a long time.
Justin
Portland, OR
Religion has always been used to control the masses.
And still does to this day.
The weak needing to believe in something beyond themselves.
Be it, Islam and terrorism
or Bush’s Holy War on terrorism.
The hypocracy of every religion in the world should forbid religious existence in world politics, and we can only hope all the worlds religions begin to recede.
Benjamin
Speaking as a committed Christian, I think Christianity has far too much iinfluence in the United States today. We have a President who claims Jesus Christ as his favorite philosopher (while remaining woefully ignorant of his actual teachings, but that’s another story), a “Christian Embassy” in the Pentagon featuring general officers in uniform proselytizing on video, clergy openly telling their congregations who to vote for, and the government directly supporting religious institutions. Despite what some people say, the United States is not a Christian nation; it is, and has been from its inception, an areligious society.
Hello All,
Christianity in retreat? Depends on where you are. Certainly it is not in retreat in the US. If you prowl the nooks and crannies of the Bible belt, you may find folks who while claiming to be Christian, would if they could, practice it with all the ecumenism of the Taliban.
later,
g
Dear Sir/Madam
Religion is declining because there is enough evidence to show that non-religious people are happier and help fellow humans far more than religious people. This shows that the big boss does not bless religious people but those who have humanity.
Thank you.
Regards
Yogesh Raja from Bolton in U.K.
Christians in the US have gained power by looking like they are victims. They constantly state that they are persecuted when really they persecute anyone who asks questions. The outbreak of Christianity in the US is due to the culture of fear. As the government and media make the population more afraid they cling closer to their faith. The media makes everyday sound like it’s the end of days and no one wants to be left behind.
Christianity is fading because people are discovering that it is a curable mental disease.
Hello
I think that the traditional christianity is really in retreat, because it doesn’t fit our actual stile of living anymore nor dose it fit the actual world. The catholic church has to reform and modernise its selfe. And politics mixed with a fundamental faith doesn’t work, it only brings up new problems and often religion gets missused py politicians.
Nadia from Switzerland
I agree with all the Bishops points and I agree with the speaker who says that Christianity is about a personal relationship with God and not about being dictated to by some other human being.
Can I make a point. Everyone keeps saying that Christianity is a close relationship with God, but thats untrue. If that were the case you could consider Jews and Muslims Christians. Christianity is stating that you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, who died and rose from the dead for the worlds sin. If you haven’t accepted him, Christianity states your going to hell, which is what most non-Christians (and I) have a problem with. Just wanted to make that clear.
-Anthony, Los Angeles, California
How can we hope to say that christianity is growing, with all these cases of pederasty, if this incidents are new that means there is a serious problem within the church if they aren’t that means the church is losing their power to cover up this things.
On the other hand many of you say people are discriminated because of having a faith, while at leat over here it’s quite the opposite, most people will call themselves christian go to church then go ahead and cheat on their wives etc. Ask yourselve this question, would an atheist win an election in any counrty in America??
It’s not an issue whether someone believes in “the basics” from the
Bible, it’s an issue when someone believes in a LITERAL INTERPRETATION
of the words of the Bible.
I have a very personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It’s the same
relationship I have with the Buddha, with Dionysus, with Apollo and
any other figure from myth, legend and history. It’s a relationship
that I have based on my own experiences and what I have learned about
how the world works.
In my opinion, Fundamental religions and fundamentalist churches are
dangerous for the future growth of humanity. They are the ones
holding us back, and I reject their message.
Chad Lupkes
Seattle, Washington, USA
The radio earlier today discussed the level of outrage Christians felt at the release of the new movie today The Golden Compass. I think it’s unfortunate that you can have a release such as a The Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe (a favourite of mine) which is so blatantly the story of Christ and the resurrection without anyone complaining while a movie such as The Golden Compass which causes such a stir simply because of it’s relatively honest depiction of the Catholic Church (at least in a historic context). Christianity is not in retreat today, I simply think that more people are letting go of the Church and associated dogma. People think and react freely and with continuing exposure to rapidly changing cultures I find it hard to believe that such clear delineations will still exist between different religions aside from a few marginal fundamentalist groups in a few decades.
The United States was founded on Christian principles, not on Christianity itself. And I think that most people have forgotten that. They used Christianity as a basis for the types of rules the founders wished to instill in the populous. If the country was founded on the religion, then there would be no need for creating a Constitution or any other set of laws, since we’d have the Bible. I am an Atheist, and yet I see these “Christian principles” as ones I follow myself, don’t kill, steal etc. In today’s United States though, people have gotten this idea that the religion comes before the country. If Christianity all of the sudden stated that the 10 Commandments are to no longer be followed, then there would be an issue. Our politicians (especially our President) have been basing their decisions on the religion and not principles.
The whole gay/lesbian marriage issue comes up a lot. Most people who are against it claim it will cause the “destruction of the fabric of our society.” This destruction that they are talking about is the fact that their world would be turned upside down. Instead of the religion coming before the country, people’s actual ideals come first. The only issue that would occur is that THEY (conservative, religious right wing) would have an issue with it.
Christianity’s popularity in my native Nigeria is not because people are somehow attracted to the “good news” it is because of all hope of social advancement in Nigeria has all but vanished. The Evangelical Churches promise quick wealth and prosperity to people who have no other form of advancement.
ps: secularism, or at least the acceptance of pure secularism (which I don’t think exists strongly today) is I think by definition the only way to have a pure democracy…
Oh, now come on! “Post Christianity” is not, or at least should not be, “Anti-Christianity”. That’s drawing lines and dividing the world even further, and it says that modern Christians are not willing to live in a world where people believe differently than they do. Welcome to World War III, for real?
I hope not.
America is a close to a theocracy of any place in the world?? WHAT??????? That guest lost all of her credibility with that comment. You cannot even say a prayer in public schools in the USA, and that’s just a theocratic like Saudi Arabia where women get whipped for being in public with an unrelated man because of religious (sharia law)??? There are NO religious based laws here. Even in the UK, your head of state is the head of the Church of England. For that reason alone, the UK is far more theocratic than the US.
I don’t think Christianity is “in retreat” but it is “in evolution.” The power of church authority is waning, the strength of faith and practice among current practitioners is increasing. It is a religion that is maturing, growing with the times, and adapting to new circumstances. I see that as a good thing from all perspectives.
“America is as close to a theocracy as you can have in the West.” How can a Briton, having a state church, call America, built on the state not declaring a religion, a theocracy?
I live hapily in country where officialy is 65% of population infidel (denominated under no religion). Nobody suffers by that and miss it. I personaly envy Estonians as there 75% of population is infidel. I wish it would be new Europe.
Quite a few people has mentioned already that god is dead and no wonder that religions are in denial of that fact. It is still very good business. Dying, but very good.
Josef Svenda
Czech Republic
There are two different ways to proselytize. One way is is to actively go out and try to recruit people to a religion directly. The other way, potentially more sensible, and more likely to be successful, is by doing good, such as feeding, teaching and caring for ones neighbors and others who need it. As a Muslim, who has grown up in the middle east, I believe that would be the best way to practice any religion and promote its values without causing potential conflict in areas which are at this time very insular, tribal and dogmatic.
The idea that Christianity is on the wane, I think, can mostly be attributed to Secularisim in Western Europe which is a product years of war and oppression done, supposedly in the name of religion. Whether being politically and socially secular is the same as not beliving in a religion or in God, based on Judo, Christian values is another issue. I have met many French of Muslim background who are as secular as French Christians.
Mohamed, law student, University of Edinburgh.
I dont have issues with how people choose to dedicate their faith, however, I do take issue with the idea that if you dont have faith in a religious doctrine, then you are unable to be a goodly (or godly) person. Why do people of faith seem to think that all people need to have what is good and bad dictated to them and they never question the validity of that dictation? Anyone who is not listening to the message could never be able to figure out how to be happy or kind?
Kelly Siegle
Vancouver, WA
It’s because Christians do not forcefully and violently defend their religion like other religions do, for example, Islam
Other religions are protected even when they preach violence openly, it is said that there are only a few rogue elements hijacking that religion
Christianity preaches peaceful resolution of issues and that’s why it is a sitting duck of anyone who would like to bash religion.
In History it is only Christians who have been persecuted, burnt at the stake, and accused of all manner of ills .
Is true that ignorant people have used Christianity to advance their own agendas, but this is not the religion that was preached by Jesus Christ and Christianity should
Not be blamed for the actions of a few people.
The Bible does not urge violent defense of the religion, on the other hand Islam does. Unfortunately people in the Media like to present a slanted view which is through their own unbelieving eyes.
You can not discuss Christianity if you are faith illiterate! It’s like trying to teach a subject of which you are not an authority.
Christians do not react violently if another religion tries to woo its believers, its only those who are afraid of losing believers because they know that what they preach is not true who become violent.
James
I respect others beliefs and feel that it is a private choice, but christians and other major religions do not the millenia of bloodshed in the name of “god”, I wish the United States was less religious and hope that christianity and all religion is on the decline. It is time that humans realize that WE created god, not the other way around, and that WE are in charge of our own destiny, WE have the ability to prevent our own destruction as we have the ability to bring it about.
Mason, Park City, Utah, USA
When people compare the religious to the non-religious they talk about the argument like it is apples and apples, when it is entirely apples and orange. This huge disctintion needs to be made. The religious have made up there mind on fundamental questions of life and morals, they believe the have all the answers to all the important questions. The simply can’t be objective and there is no place for these subjective views in a democratic government. You could compare it to someone who is a poodle lover judging a dog show of multiple breeds and being asked to be objective, it is unlikely to happen.
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Scott Millar
Portland, Oregon, US
Tough I’ve been only four months in Norway,but I have come to meet and admire some of the most lovely and ardent Christians I’ve ever met.There is a gradual revival going on here in Norway as more & more people are embracing Christianity and coming to the true knowledge & love of Jesus Christ.
Raymond
Religion is only cognitive comfort for the weak, the poor and the desperate. Where better to spread such comfort then in Africa, with vague quotes from a book that contradicts itself. Any form of organised religion is a disease that stunts the growth of society. Kindness is my religion.
Noah
America is without a doubt very close to being a theocracy and centered around the Christian faith. I am a Humanities Major with a focus in world religion. I enjoy studying religion, and through the academic study of religions have lost any desire to be religious. This stance against being religious has only been amplified by living in America. A country where religion is more vanity and social practices, rather then true belief and participation in a doctrine. For some Americans, such as myself, living in the “United States of ‘Christian’ America” is excruciating and upsetting. America has some beautiful qualities, but politics are tainted by Christianity and the majority of Americans are too naive to separate church and state. Christianity is on a rise. The numbers may not be there, as I have seen some statistics suggesting an overall decline of Americans who participate in Christianity, but the current Christians are becoming louder.
Best,
Jeremy Robillard
Portland, Oregon.
christianity is definately not on the decline in Ghana.
you are almost likened to the devil if you do not go to church on sunday.
moreover churches have started springing up and spreading like fire.
i know one particular church that has church planting as its main goal and they are all over, not just in Ghana but all over the world as far as papua new guinea. I have seen medical doctors give up their scopes and go out to plant a church for jesus from that church.
i am a business consultant and have just planted my first church. i hope to plant one in the US soon.
kwaku
Ghana
World have your say,
Thank you for the opportunity to speak again on the BBC. Even though it did not work out very well it was still exciting to do it again. I am very thankful you would think of me.
I think that Christianty is not on the retreat and is going to the whole earth. I plan on going on a LDS mission in a year and I hope I get sent to the UK so we can speak again in person!
Aaron Kirkham
Idaho
Mike in Corvallis~
As a fellow 5-percenter I gotta tell ya ~ it is incumbent upon us to practice tolerance more than anyone else. We still have to fight the tide in our courts, but when they knock on the door we have to politely say “no thank you”. Anything else will just feed the fortress mentality that so many thrive on.
John in Salem
As a non-Mormon living in Utah, I am very hesitant to beleive that Mitt Romney will be able to prevent the Mormon Church from influencing his presidency. Here in Utah they dominate the poltical scene, and if Mitt is a “good” Mormon he will not be able to separate his faith from his policy. That being said, Romney’s Mormanism is the least of my concerns about him.
Mason, Park City, Utah
Why would Christians want to seek prosecution to anyone commiting blasphemy? Won’t their god send the blasphemers to hell or do they doubt his power?
Ken in Cleveland
It is extremely disappointing to see Presidential Candidates talk about faith and religion in their political debates instead of discussing solid public policies and what they would do to unite the country instead of divide it.
Growing up religion was very personal and was your own. We were not expected to influence others with our own faith but lead a good life by setting good examples. To me, religion was meant to be a part of your life’s basic foundation based on which one could progress in life and moved forward. However, some people seem to be using religion to pull themselves down and move backward.
LB.
leonet reid.
it is wrong to belive that goerge bush is the second most popular christian. HE IS NOT CHRISTIAN. CHRISTIANITY DOESNT TEACH INVASION ON COUNTRIES, AND MANY AUTROCITIES. the pope stand reflects christianity as a peace maker not one that reverts to wat. america is more secualr than any other country possible.
At University, it was extremely unfashionable to be a Christian, as students learned of many of the atrocities committed by Christians throughout history. Returning to my hometown of Portland, Oregon after graduating, I discovered those sentiments were growing rapidly. In the last couple of years I’ve become involved with a Christian community that is extremely focused on Poverty, Hunger and Social Justice Issues. I see these communities growing in numbers as passive worship numbers decline. These communities have a more progressive agenda, and you’ll find them having more and more influence on the left side of the political spectrum.
—
Justin Timmons
Portland, OR
Hi BBC,
Justin here from San Francisco. When Christianity is too involved in government you have stunts like the Governer of Georia praying for rain in front of the capital building in Atlanta. He should have been solving the problem instead of asking the almighty for assistance. When politicians do stunts like that you have to wonder if they are pandering or actually a little bit crazy.
Justin
San Francisco, CA
Christianity in Uganda is a multi-million shilling business for the Church leaders (owners), for polititicians is a tool to win support and cement their grip on power. Politicians percieve it as a rock to social order, they use the scripture to their own advantage. Ugandans like most Africans are addicted to the religion in that any incompitent politician comes in the name of Christianity is wholeheartedly endorse them. Politics and religion are inseperable in this country.
Ogenrwoth David
Nebbi, Uganda
I found the mention in Mitt Romney’s speech that, you cannot be free unless you are religious, very offensive and frightening. Fundamentalist Christianity is as scary as fundamentalism in any other religion.
Pat G.
Ohio
USA
I truly believe that Christianity is on the rise. If we look at some countries and cultures, we might easily conclude that Christianity has limited influence, but this outwardly might be difficult to determine. Local government rulings may try to squelch Christian testimony or outward demonstrations of faith. But the true faith of those who believe is growing by leaps and bounds in many oppressive parts of the world. The believers in Afghanistan or Niger, for instance, have tremendous social pressure on them by the Muslim majority and culture to not openly speak of their growing faith. If they do, they may well lose the ties to their families and social support of the community, and become social outcasts–literally losing their family members. But in these places where people have no where else to turn for help, they are turning to the Lord Jesus in droves.
The media does have a definit bias toward the Christian faith in the western countries. I have personally known of a man who was clinically brain dead, no pulse, no breathing for 40 minutes. He came back to life on the morgue table, and he became a believer in Jesus while dead. His old, crusty, foul mouth, logger personality changed as he revived in the morgue, and he lived another 10 years as a tender, and loving man. Did this get any press coverage? Of course not, because it is not culturally newsworthy in our very liberal, morally degenerative, California coastal culture. But there are many, many people who do honstly seek–and they do find.
jk
Dearest Ros: Hi, how are you my good friend?! In my district, Al-Karradah, there’re six churches, the head of the department of anatomy in my college is Christian, my senior surgeon is Christian, and my best friend is Christian, also many of my colleagues and teachers at college are Christians! Christians’ suffering in Iraq is a part of the suffering of the Iraqi society as a whole! With my love! Lubna in Baghdad!
A person has to be at least 35 years old to be President of the US, isn’t that old enough to have stopped believing in supernatural imaginary friends? Isn’t it time for mature adults to lead our nations?
I suggest that religion is the biggest problem in the world today.
Tom D Ford
Bend, OR
I am from Nigeria and Christianity is not in retreat in Nigeria, but at the same time as a point of correction to Ross, People have a choice as to what religion to join even in Nigeria. In America, Christianity is on the retreat among Anglo Americans but not amongst African Americans, Africans in America, and even now Asian people in America. The complexion of Christianity is changing/retreating, but not the religion itself per se. there are more Pentecostal churches springing up and the traditional ones where there is to be seen a more Anglo presence, are not fully attended.
Ayo
Hello,
Your question is beside the point. The question is does Jesus care about His church? Yes; He gave His life for her.
Real Christians will stand up for their faith. God will judge those who deny and mock Him. Christianity is not a popularity contest.
In Zambia, Christianity, at the moment, is on the rise.
Revivals will occur where God purposes. Declines will happen from time to time. If Jesus tarries, a hundred years from now, Universe Have-Your-Say will be asking the same question and, with the same lack of understanding, people will call in and show that they know nothing of a personal conversion to Christianity. yet every day, people who die in the true faith shall go to be with Jesus in heaven. God help the rest.
Sikamena Siyumbwa
Lusaka, Zambia
Christianity (and all religions) have been in retreat since Copernicus. Science and reason has forced the ‘God of the gaps’ into smaller and smaller holes. All for the better in my opinion. To quote Arthur C Clark ‘religion is the greatest mind virus of man. We will never advance as a species until it is iradicated.’
Bart Mitchell
on OPB in Oregon,USA
christianity in jamaica is not on the decline. Jamaica is very conservative in there views and laws that reflect the biblical laws. jamaica is untouched by the disease called “liberalism” and ‘secularism’. we have set order and also we have a set biblical law that everyone Must follow. contrast to that, i am now studying in america where secularity strives. here, i am forced to accept secular views. one of which is of secular societies.homosexuality and many other sinful acts.
Leonaet
While in most cases I do my best to respect religion, many Christians make that a very hard thing to do. Further more, I don’t need religion to dictate my behavior – I have a conscience and that conscience has let me down the right path so far!
Kim Olson
Portland, Oregon
Ros,
How can anybody seriously believe that a supernatural King of the Universe would be so insecure as to feel insulted and slighted by people poking fun at Him.
How infantile!
steven
berlin
Mormons are still considered looney people in the United States. They are extra Jesus not regular Jesus.
A Mormon in the white house would be like Bush on crack. What a country I live in. Hey Ros would you sponsor me for a working visa in the UK?
Eliel
RE: Noahs comment on “Religion is only cognitive comfort for the weak, the poor and the desperate.”. That is quite a generalization. Were the Spaniards so weak and poor, is that how a handfield of Spaniards were able to kill thousands upon thousands of Indians in the name of God. Is that how the Jews were able to create their own country, because they were weak, or was it their belief that God would help them (against all odds by the way). Isn’t the Vatican one of the richest entities in the world? That really was a comment that hadn’t had much thought put into it. I mean, because of religion you have that name of yours. Poor weak and poor George Bush, talking about his faith in God left and right.
i am leonet reid who is writing from jamaica. i am here to saw that yes christianity has declined but it will never lose its role in society. it is said in the bible that people will go astry and they are. they are distracted by the internet, secularity, the misconceived word called “freedom”. Also sadly people want to explore and major religions doesnt allow peope question their faith.
Leonet Reid, in Jamaica
BBC: You didn’t give the full story on why Romney did what he did. He made his speech to alleviate fears of other christians about his Mormon Faith. Many people in the US don’t believe Mormons are “real christians”. Mormons have an interesting past, and have different holy texts than protestants and catholics, and they had a past of racism and polygamy, which no longer exists. So he didn’t make his speech to be “I’m a christian and I’m proud” he did it so that “I’m a Mormon, I am proud of my faith, but have no fear, it will not impact my duties as President. I will answer to the people, not to Salt Lake City”. It had nothing to do with general christianity, he was trying to save his chances, as his Mormonism is a serious concern for many Americans. I listened to talk shows in the US earlier today and people would say “I could never vote for a mormon, they aren’t real christians” So that mentality exists here. For me personally, I would love for an athiest to come out and say they don’t’ believe in God, but still live by a moral code and at least aren’t hypocrites like people claiming to be christians, but then go out and do terrible things.
Steve
USA
I truly believe that faith in Jesus is on the rise. It is not religion, with rules, but a relationship with a living Creator. If we look at some countries and cultures, we might easily conclude that Christianity has limited influence, but this outwardly might be difficult to determine. Local government rulings may try to squelch Christian testimony or outward demonstrations of faith. But the true faith of those who believe is growing by leaps and bounds in many oppressive parts of the world. The believers in Afghanistan or Niger, for instance, have tremendous social pressure on them by the Muslim majority and culture to not openly speak of their growing faith. If they do, they may well lose the ties to their families and social support of the community, and become social outcasts–literally losing their family members. But in these places where people have no where else to turn for true,spiritual help, they are turning to the Lord Jesus in droves.
The media does have a definit bias toward the Christian faith in the western countries. Example: I have personally known of a man who was clinically brain dead, no pulse, no breathing for 40 minutes. He came back to life on the morgue table, and he became a believer in Jesus while dead. His old, crusty, foul mouth, logger personality changed as he revived in the morgue, and he lived another 10 years as a tender, and loving man with a great love for Christ Jesus. Did this get any press coverage? Of course not, because it is not culturally newsworthy in our very liberal, morally degenerative, California coastal culture. But there are many, many people who do honstly seek–and they do find.
Kim
Arcata, CA. USA
Good evening all.
The town I lived in up until recently, in Dorset, has about 9 churches in it. Each is filled every Sunday. The one that I attended has about 600 in it’s congregation.
My new church, in a small village, is full to the seams.
From what I see, Christianity is NOT on the wane.
The word ‘fundamental’ has been totally torn apart and now represents(to many) a band of mad people! We, within my church, are on the whole ‘fundamentalist’. We are all peace loving folk.
There are many who call themselves a Christian when in fact they have no idea as to whom the Lord Jesus is! There are many who have fought, or who fight, under the banner of Christianity. Yet they are not Christians. Many would like to think themselves a Christian due to their good works etc. Sadly, that does not constitute being a Christian. Taking the Lord Jesus as one’s personal Saviour is what it is all about. It happens in the heart, not in the head.
I thoroughly enjoyed tonight’s programme.
As an american Christian the anti-religious outpouring above is understandable, but some of the comments go a little far. For example: the influence of the Christian faith on US politics can be characterized in many ways, but to suggest that Bush is waging a war against terrorism as a means of promoting Christianity around the globe is laughable. The president may have had many reasons for going to war with Iraq that we may never understand, but to imply that this is being driven by religious elements in the US is unfounded. The second point I find interesting is that there is a great assumption being made that somehow, if a society could rid itself of religion, moral unity would be a natural outcome of its absence. The conflict over the limits and bounds of ethical reason is a human debate, not strictly a religious one. To assume that religion is the source of all moral conflict in the world is a gross simplification that turns the debate into one of competing passions rather than competing reasons.
Also, the notion that free-thinking (in this context, thinking that is uninfluenced by religion) somehow creates better global outcomes turns a blind eye to the millions of lives ended at the hands of anti-religious movements like the Khmer Rouge, Mao’s China and Stalin’s Russia. Each of these instances represent cases where the intellectual basis for the movements was developed in isolation from direct religious influence. The point is simply that a society or movement that is uninfluenced by religion can be just as bloody, if not more bloody than one that is.
The key is not so much where a country derives its moral imperative so long as its moral imperative reinforces the fundamentals of human respect and freedom. To exclude religious elements from expressing moral concerns is bigotry in the same way that religious institutions trying to impose moral standards on an unreceptive society is bigotry. In essence, what everyone desires is a moral unity that every human being can buy into. Humanity’s record on this account is dismal but simply believing that religion is the only obstacle to achieving moral unity is nonsense.
The “World Have Your Say” segment on Christianity, today, was too one sided. The world view of the producers and the host are very clear. They are anti-Christian.
American Protestant Christianity has been the greatest influence for good the world has ever seen. Separation of church and state, is a early New Testament church distinctive. Christ said “render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” This revolutionary principle influenced America’s founding fathers and corrected the mistakes of their European ancestors.
Love your neighbor as yourself is revolutionary as well. The animosity and hatred directed toward Christianity is alarming! What the anti-Christian cult does not take into account is that, historically, Christianity has flourished when persecuted. They are fueling the fire. Turning to Christ as your personal savior is now the rebellious thing to do in Europe and increasingly so in America. Keep it up. You are doing the cause of Christ a favor.
Protestant Christianity understands that faith comes by a personal choice. It can’t be forced. This is what separates conservative Christians form radical Muslims. Please don’t stand idly by, as the host, when your guest attempts to lump them together. It is intellectually dishonest, and it is your responsibility as a journalist to counter that kind of treachery. Your guest on the show who perpetrated that, was stereotyping Christians. Stereotyping is the hallmark of a bigot!
I would also encourage everyone to read “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis. A convincing intellectual case for Christ.
Christianity is not declining. God’s peace, His forgiveness, His power, His love and His blessing is as accessible today as it always has been. God is the one constant in a world in turmoil. As the hymn goes, “yesterday, today, forever Jesus is the same. all may change but Jesus never, glory to His name.” Although people may not as readily accept Christian teaching, it is wrong to suggest that Christianity is declining.
If, in a maths test the majority of students decided that 2 + 2 = 5; the mathematical fact would remain that 2 + 2 still equals 4, despite what the majority of people might think.
It is perceived as being less sociably acceptable in the UK these days to have a lot to do with God or to be seen as a born again Christian. In the UK, society’s moral standards have dropped. It could be said that as the people have moved away from God’s teaching, the high moral standards God expects from His people have dropped away accordingly. It could also be that people don’t want to hear the teaching of the Bible if it pricks their conscience and highlights the areas of the way they live their lives which are wrong – sinful in the eyes of God.
The happiest people are people with clear consciences, people who have made their peace with God and with their fellow men (and women) and accepted Jesus Christ into their lives as Lord and Saviour.
Oh, and for the people who actually have the nerve to call America a theocracy, especially Brits and Canadians: you both have the word “God” in your national anthems. “God keep our land, glorious and free” “God save the Queen”… And in Ontario public schools have crosses on them. You’d never be able to do that in the US.
Let’s talk about judgement & being polite…
I keep hearing Christians whining about ‘Political Correctness’ and how terrible it is that someone won’t wish them a Merry Christmas. Well guess what… Years ago I was working at a retail store during the holidays and I wished a couple, ‘Happy Holidays’ and the woman said, “Oh, I know you’re not allowed to say Merry Christmas, so I’ll say it for you… Merry Christmas!” Now mind you, I WAS allowed to say Merry Christmas, I chose not to – To be polite. I didn’t want to judge this woman like she judged me. She looked at me saw I was white and assumed I was just like her. I should have let it go, but I didn’t. “Ma’am, I wished you ‘Happy Holidays’ because I’m not a Christian.” Boy, did she looked scared. I love that!
‘Political Correctness’, as I like to refer to as “The Act of Being Polite”, is a really handy tool to keep people from making fools out of themselves.
Another example… An older caucasian guy came up to me a few months ago and started prattling on to me about those pesky ‘N-Words’. I let him have his say for about 30 seconds and I said, “Sir, I am not like you. My neices and nephews are of black, white and korean decent and I am in a band with an African American and an Indian American. I also work in a very diverse workplace.” He then fumbles around saying oh, well you know there are good ones and bad ones. You can be white and be an ‘N-Word’.” I scoffed at him and walked away. I mean really… Was this guy so stupid and arrogant to think that I would jump on the Hate Wagon and ride it to Racistville? Did he think we were going to have a good time together talking nonsense about skin color? This was SMALLTALK for this guy!
So use these two examples as politeness guidelines. Political correctness isn’t designed to hurt your feelings, it’s designed to spare everyones feelings from the majority of STUPID people in this world. It’s also designed to keep the stupid ones from getting their a$$e$ beaten by those with less restraint than me.
Remember that this holiday season. Christmas is a Holiday, and New Years is right around the corner. We know most Christians make a mockery of Kwanzaa and think nothing of Jewish, Mulsim & Pagan holidays, so just say Happy Holidays! It even has alliteration! It feels good to say! It’s all inclusive! And it’s rude to assume everyone in this world thinks just like you.
So to all of you not-so-bright-whites out there… Don’t assume everyone is like you just because they look like you. That’s just stupid.
Lastly a bit of trivia for you…
You’d be more likely to get a ‘Merry Mithras’ or ‘Happy Saturnalia’ from me this time of year. Christ was born in the spring.
Ken in Cleveland
If God was to return as one of us humans he/she would be an atheist.For one reason:the practice of all the religions since they were invented has been hypocrisy.The starting point for any serious religious discussion is theology.That is the science of religion where differentiations can be made in a rational way. There are no theological debates today aired in the media.And that is why there is so much friction between religions because they are not discussed in the way they were when they first appeared.Religion can be traced back to the earliest cave-drawings and the emergence of the Goddess.How many people know that before God there was the Goddess? Yet it has been archaeologically proven by excavations in Turkey in the 1960’s. Christianity is an invention based, but a twist, on the teachings of Yahoshua ben Joseph (the real name of Jesus Christ).Saint Paul never met Yahoshua ben Joseph and led the stoning of the first Christian Martyr Stephen,yet this is the man who has redefined YBJ’s teachings to suit his own purposes and is readily believed by millions.Constantine died with Pagan and Christian sacraments.Today’s Pope calls himself Benedict after Benedict of Nursia one of the founders of Christian Monasticism.Bendedict of Nursia spent 3 years in a cave outside Rome to found the rules which governed his monastic beliefs.The present Pope has done nothing which remotely resembles that 3 year act of piety and asceticism and yet still has the audacity to say he wants to return to the original beliefs of Catholicism.Bush and Romney are both classic hypocrites.When Peter rebuked YBJ because he was afraid that if Rome turned on their followers he would not get to sit on one of the 12 thrones of the tribes of Israel, YBJ said “Get thee behind me Satan” (the same thing he told the Devil in The Wilderness).In a wide sense I recommend a reading of Isaiah 45:7 as a source of enlightenment.As long as the reading is the original translation not the ones filtered by Greek, Latin and modern languages.My own religion is one of many colours.The main thing I like about Islam for example is the title which means ‘submission’ (to God alone).I am convinced that the arrival of God on Earth will be achieved by everyone on Earth,of whatever spiritual belief, believing and praying simultaneously.
While debating the role of religion, is it really necessary for the non-religious to speak so disparagingly of Christians?
They have a strange habit of lambasting believers for their intolerance and ignorance. It is they who consistently demonstrate both.
in NEPAL, predominantly a Hindu, Buddhist, & Muslim country, the missionaries have been able convert the ‘religion-less’ indigenous ‘Chepangs’ as faithful Christians!
🙂
Thanks for having me on the programme again, Ros. I wasn’t expecting to get on this time and was about to walk out the door when you all called. My broadband crashed and so I wasn’t able to listen to the comments before I was put on the air just as the programme was finishing up, so I apologize. And when I first responded, I had misread the question, so again apologies. I still would love to see you do a show on Islam and is Islam on the wane or on retreat? That would make for some fascinating discussions as well and is every bit of a valid question as the one you asked.
I just wanted to say that I was refering to the UK as post-Christian and not the US. Although, Christine is wrong. The US, as religious as it is, is considered by many in the US as post-Christian. And I disagree with Christine that the US is a theocracy. That just isn’t true.
There is what is termed the ‘culture wars’ in the US between a religious right and a secular left and it seems at the moment the right has been in the ascendancy. But although most Americans would say they were Christian or religious, it really doesn’t mean the US is close to a theocracy. I think people give Bush’s Christianity too much weight and influence in US policy making. I used to live and work in Washington, D.C. during the rise of the religious right in the 1980’s and beyond, and they have a much more complex relationship with American politics than your listeners or your expert Christine gives credence to.
The left feels embattled in the US because of Bush’s government and want to blame it on his Christianity at times. That is just too simplistic. As is a clear division between right and left, secular and religious. Many Christians are rallying around Jim Wallis and others who are liberal, progressive Christians interested in social justice and they just don’t focus on issues like abortion or homosexuality, but focus on poverty. They would be the first to say God doesn’t have a particular brand of politics. These would be more ‘leftie’. And there are righties who aren’t religious at all.
Anyway, just want to say I appreciate all that you do by putting on this programme. It is a place where people have a voice which is all too rare in today’s society. So thanks!
Ah, I have a little news here that might upset the lefties who think only whites are racist.
http://www.examiner.com/a-1091786~MTA_investigates_attack_as_hate_crime.html
a bunch of 13 year old black kids beat the crap out of a white woman in baltimore. Didn’t make international headlines. Interesting.. Apparently they injured another passenger and the bus driver too. Has this been heard outside of the USA?
The book called “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis is a must read for anyone who considers themselves well read.
One of the many brilliant observations Lewis makes is that everyone needs to answer a simple question. Do you think Christ was a lunatic, a liar or who he claimed to be? From Christ’s teachings, he shows himself to be one of the most clear thinkers in history. Far from insane. If he was lying, wouldn’t his disciples have known? Why would Christ and his disciples have gone to their deaths for a lie? It was not a lie. Since Christ claimed to be the Son of God, you must choose. He didn’t leave any other choice. He was either Lord, liar or lunatic. C.S. Lewis and billions of other well educated people, look at the evidence and come to the conclusion that Christ was Lord.
In a world that preaches tolerance, I am amazed at the intolerance shown by those who have animosity toward Christians.
Leave us alone, we don’t want a Theocracy because Christ thought separation of church and state when he said, “Give unto Cesar what is Cesar’s and unto God what is God’s.”
American Protestantism has been the greatest influence for good the World has ever seen. Separation of church and state was a New Testament church tenant taught my Christ. The world is a better place for it. He also taught us to love your neighbor as yourself. This was, in still is revolutionary. The world is a better place because of this teaching.
Why are there so many haters out there?
Gentlemen:
I am a retired Professor Emeritus of Theoretical Physics, and I see the scientific community becoming MORE religious, as people feel that finding absolutes is a Pyhrric venture! It may just be my perception, but I see the whole world becoming more religious too..
As a scientist, I find the idea of an omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient “sky Fairy” patently absurd!
We have just had a Federal Election here in Australia, but prior to voting day both the incumbent John Howard and the challenger, Kevin Rudd, tried to establish their Christian credentials to try and win the ‘right-wing’ christian vote. Sadly, because this election turned into something of a US style ‘Presidential’ style campaign, it left most Australians with the very uncomfortable feeling that regardless of our personal thoughts on religion, we were being asked to vote for our favourite christian. This is really an unacceptable position in such a multicultural society as ours. I am personally very concerned that anyone irrational enough to believe that ‘God’ had ‘spoken’ to them and told them to go fight in Iraq continues to hold the office of US President, or that irrational people who ‘pray’ to a figure as real as Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy can become the Prime Minister or President of ANY country. However, having said all that the ‘C’ word has not been mentioned at all since the election, and in fact the religious right’s vote was less than it has been in many years. As for Christian groups gaining a hold in Australia, that does seem to have been the case during the Howard Government’s time in office, but I suspect that we Aussies are not as naive as the Americans, and have seen through all the rhetoric and consider the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as a means to an end, (that end apparently being for Oil Companies in the US connected to their Vice-President being able to obtain and transport through a pipeling crossing Afghanistan as much oil as they can get their hands on, rather than some righteous religious crusade). In fact our former Defense Minister and current Opposition Leader, Dr. Brendan Nelson said that oil was, in fact, the reason for Australia’s involvement in Iraq. So much for religious righteousness eh!!
God, “the People”, Eretz Israel, etc., are symbols for goals and values. When the goals are tribal, exclusive and intolerant, and evangelical, then civilization suffers.
Technological capacity for destruction far exceeds the capacity of the hunter-gatherer brain to control it. The media should aid in presenting tolerant beings (like Dawkins) and their capacity to the public.
Supra-national bodies that can control inter-tribal warfare offer a hope for civilization.
to me the obvious answer is yes! We ,ie the world have been praying for peace & whatever, to ‘someone up there’ for over 2000yrs.& we don’t seem to have recognised that s/he has done nothing much about it yet. Maybe @ last we can devote our energies to something more constructive, use the ‘places of worship’ as community centres, homes for the homeless, hospitals, places to show our art, instead of the dead spaces they are, full of useless hope & prayer.!. Shame the greedy. I heard a scientist speaking the other night about all the wonderful things that the astronomical world can do for?us in the future. I love astronomy, but @ the end of his lecture he suddenly rmembered ‘the rest of us!’ . You could tell he had been reminded that he must speak to us’ the plebs’. also & ended rather lamely that ‘oh yes, those of you who cannot come with us will benefit too, you will live much better than you do now!!!.
Inge, by email.
In the way that babies have an instinctual attraction to the persons who will make them happy and comfortable and an aversion to those who will hurt them even if this pain is good for them it is the same way that early man had an instinctual attraction to the ideas of God and the institution of religion. Natural Selection may explain the biological things of this world adequately and inorganic sciences have plausible answers to many of the world’s questions. However science does not have as many answers about the actual origin of life, the world and the Universe as does a theory based upon intelligent design.
To the lady from France, I endorse the view of Billy Graham that we should think Christ, not Christians. One ought not to blame a religion for the actions of a relative few persons who claim to be adherents of that religion.
-Olivene
Kingston Jamaica, by email.
To all the hater’s of Christ.
You might wish to rethink your decision there.
Every single sentence of the Constitution and Bill of Rights is drawn from sermon’s published prior to it’s writting.
To the exact degree the Bible is adheared to the Nation lives, breaths and prospers as founded.
That is just the practical survival of Western Civilization which is Judeo-Christian, period.
On a personal level-
You only get one chance at life and then eternity.
Jesus? Don’t leave this life without Him.
This nation was founded on Christianity. I know most of you will roll your eyes when I say this, but when this nation has turned it’s back of Christ, we are in trouble. There are scriptures that deal with our future and its all bad. Wait and see, you will remember I said this….