The 3rd and final Presidential debate

Barack Obama and John McCain are set to face each other in the final televised debate before the US presidential poll.

With just three weeks to go before the election, Mr McCain badly needs a victory on Wednesday to dent Mr Obama’s growing lead in the opinion polls.


What are your expectations? Will this debate be the non-debate we have seen with the former two debates? Will John McCain get the win he is looking for and, according to some, he needs?

Please add your thoughts to this post….over to you.

128 Responses to “The 3rd and final Presidential debate”

  1. 1 Jennifer
    October 15, 2008 at 22:31

    I am expecting John McCain to pull out everything he had in this debate because he needs to regain some of his ground. I would like to hear him discuss issues such as our economy and stabilization of it, including that we do not need a quick fix. I want him to mention that we need to cut back spending; not create more programs. We need to work with the ones we already have and improve upon them. We need to be secure and I think he needs to bring it home that we are still vulnerable; especially while we are weak financially. I want him to say that Sarah Palin has been insulted by the liberal media and that American women should consider it an insult even if they have different beliefs than she does. I could go on……

    As for Obama……..more hot air? We will see. Maybe he can talk about ACORN, abortion, etc.

  2. October 15, 2008 at 22:35


    Obama has spoken about abortion. As for ACORN, go to my blog and read the post “In defence of ACORN” – even you will be surprised.


  3. 3 Jessica in NYC
    October 15, 2008 at 22:55


    Obama will win just by showing up.

  4. 4 selena in Canada
    October 15, 2008 at 22:58

    What person in their right mind would subject her/himself to the kind of abuse that is hurled at those people?

    Surely they have a screw loose to begin with!!

  5. 5 Jennifer
    October 15, 2008 at 23:00

    @ Will,

    Thanks for pointing me in the direction of your blog for information. I would much rather hear it discussed firsthand though.

    I think at this point, Obama could still very well loose. I will be sending him some unpleasant karma unless by some chance he wins me over this late? I don’t see that happening but……..I will listen to what he has to say. Maybe he will be overconfident and proceed to fall on his face! 😀

  6. 6 Jessica in NYC
    October 15, 2008 at 23:15

    I hope all delusional people who think McCain stock up on tissues for election day. HAHAHAHA

    Selena, Agreed!

  7. 7 Amy
    October 15, 2008 at 23:17

    It will be interesting to see how hard Sen. McCain tries to not look at Sen. Obama. They will be seated together, either facing each other or next to each other. Sen. McCain seems to have made a point of avoiding direct eye contact and to me that is rude. I’m not talking about long, soul searching gazes but when responding or posing a question, you should look at your opponent not point and call him “That one.”

    Still waiting for Mt. McCain to blow it’s top…….

  8. 8 Julie P
    October 15, 2008 at 23:18


    Make that Dr. Phil and antidepressants!

  9. 9 Jessica in NYC
    October 15, 2008 at 23:27

    @ Amy

    Still waiting for Mt. McCain to blow it’s top…….”

    From your key board to God’s email. And I would love to see soul searching gazes from McCain into Obama’s pretty big brow eyes.

    @ Julie P

    LOL! Maybe Canada can adopt the GOP cry baby.

  10. 10 roebert
    October 16, 2008 at 00:11

    While McCain and Obama debate with the sole purpose of trying to say what each hopes most Americans will want them to say, and displaying the body-language tricks that they hope will please most people, most Americans will be privately debating (with great anguish of soul) only this one question: do we want to be led by a confused geriatric who looks about ready to give up the ghost, or, God-help-us, by a person of colour who will send out the unconscious message that White Americans can’t rule themselves? This question, much more than those of Iraq and the financial crisis, will determine the outcome.

    Can McCain contrive to appear younger and less moribund, and can Obama appear more White and elitist?

    Tricky business, politics.

  11. 11 Venessa
    October 16, 2008 at 00:16

    I suspect most of us on this blog have already made up our minds about the candidates. What do you think each candidate would need to say to win the election (getting the undecided votes or changing someone’s mind)?

    I don’t really think there’s anything either candidate could declare in this debate tonight that possibly will influence me in the opposite direction. I have been reading, trying to check facts and listening to debates for weeks now. What could possibly be said tonight that would make a difference?

  12. 12 DENNIS@OCC
    October 16, 2008 at 00:20

    Hi Will and the rest of the friends!

    In less than 2 hours from now….We will be able to
    see the 3rd and final debate…

    My issues are for tonight’s decision:
    1) Economy
    2) Taxes
    3) Entitlements i.e. Social Security
    4)Health Care


  13. 13 DENNIS@OCC
    October 16, 2008 at 00:23

    To answer Jessica in New York
    comments @ October 15, 2008 at 10:55 pm

    i think that Obama will win by showing up and
    looking like a gentleman!


  14. 14 ZK
    October 16, 2008 at 00:44

    Let’s see… Al Gore led George W. Bush by 11 points with a month to go in 2000 and lost. Obama’s lead isn’t much greater than that, so I wouldn’t be writing off McCain yet — but he needs a solid performance today.

  15. 15 Kelsie in Houston
    October 16, 2008 at 00:47

    The game isn’t up for Mr McCain–not by a long shot. A solid, strong performance this evening won’t necessarily tip the balance blatantly in his favour, but it will prove he’s still a viable, energizing candidate. There’s absolutely no reason to walk into or (barring some catastrophic rhetorical disaster on either of the candidates’ parts) out of this debate assuming a foregone conclusion.

    Mr McCain and Mr Obama both shouldn’t and don’t see this as a terminal point–the electorate should not, either.

    Still two weeks and six days to go, folks–the game’s not over yet.

  16. 16 Paul Harbin - Waco, Tx.
    October 16, 2008 at 00:56

    I think tonight’s debate is already over. I’m voting for Obama. I feel he is an intelligent man with the skill of motivating people. I hope he makes good decisions and tries to inspired the uninspired. What ever direction we take this November, the captain of the ship has to plot a better course. When more and more of our scientific minds are trying to get us to listen … we cannot afford to ostracize them any longer. We have been acquiring more knowledge of how things work, giving us a better ability to change the environment we are in. For all our gains … it seems fail where it matters most. We seem to know more about ourselves, but what about non-physical … metaphysical?

    The time has come for us to move confidently, with knowledge but …
    with more wisdom. We have to define the path ahead and not by looking at the past. Absolutely, we learn from our past, but whom has been where we want to go? I hope
    Obama, if elected, will still speak to the people and possibly move them to action.

  17. October 16, 2008 at 00:59


    I don’t think it’s over for him – but looking at the Virginia polls and Obama being 10 points up, well – that does surprise me.

    What’s the odds Obama taking Texas?

  18. 18 Julie P
    October 16, 2008 at 01:06


    According to the American Research Group, Inc. McCain has 57% to Obama’s 38%. The poll is dated October 9th.

  19. 19 Kelsie in Houston
    October 16, 2008 at 01:06

    I hear you on the polls, especially in those states–but with three weeks to go, Mr McCain could conceivably come back. I am particularly interested by the state of Ohio–as an American who has seen the vast majority of the “lower 48,” I personally look upon Ohio as “America in microcosm,” if there is a state of whom that can be said. With metropolitan areas in the southwest and northeast, and a rather pronounced divide between rural regions and the diagonal swath of urban centres, Ohio–along with perhaps Missouri and Pennsylvania–is a good “barometer” of the nation as a whole–but that’s just a personal opinion to take or leave…and I am an avowed Ohiophile 🙂

    The odds of Mr Obama taking Texas? Unlikely. Of the metropolitan areas, only Houston is predominately Democratic–and don’t let the state delegation map fool you; Houston is the bastion of liberalism. Austin, the capital city, is as well, but is surrounded by small-town conservative communities. San Antonio splits–usually it is Democratic on the state level, but Republican when dealing with Washington, D.C.

    Dallas/Fort Worth counterbalances the others combined; one of the largest metropolitan areas in the United States, and is generally considered solidly Republican, with exceptions.

  20. 20 Jennifer
    October 16, 2008 at 01:07

    Re: Considering the election a done deal

    I was reading a newsletter earlier and it said that this is not McCain’s last chance to win over voters but it’s his best chance to win over some. I think this election is definitely not over.

    For people who are definitely decided, I think it would take a major mess up by their pick or the other person doing some heavy duty talking to win them over. As for undecided voters, they may already be leaning towards one candidate over the other. One nudge in either direction could settle it for them.

    After that, the only thing to consider is who will actually show up to vote and how many will change their minds on the way there and at the last minute vote for the other person.

  21. 21 Amy
    October 16, 2008 at 01:10


    The GOP has pulled out of Wisconsin!!! My mom is so happy.

  22. 22 Kelsie in Houston
    October 16, 2008 at 01:14

    I am skeptical of things like this, for example:

  23. 23 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 01:14


    Austin is my favorite place in Texas–also the only place in Texas I’ve ever been to. It’s beautiful but not precious like [ahem] San Francisco tends to be. I like the LBJ museum; looks like a hangar for a giant waffle.

  24. 24 Tom D Ford
    October 16, 2008 at 01:14

    Probably most important is that neither one make any big mistake.

    These are hardly debates in any real sense, they’re just political theater.

    I find it interesting that Palin claims to be a Christian but keeps “bearing false witness” in her speeches and ads. Isn’t there some Buy-Bull Commandment against that?

    Palin is a Deceiver but is she a Great Deceiver?

  25. 25 Paul Harbin - Waco, Tx.
    October 16, 2008 at 01:16


    I know a few “good ole boys” that work at a lube shop. Hard working men. I stopped by, on my way home one day, with my 2 rejected registrations cards. The Harley rider/bar scared barbarian type that works for said,

    “Who are you going to vote for?” Obama

    “What, that ____?” Yes

    “Wait till Danny hears about this.” *Danny, 48 years old with season leather skin, and a ball-cap with a rebel flag on it. Grandpa, respected, still able to teach a young-buck a lesson or two if required … type of guy.
    “Danny, he’s gonna vote for Obama.”
    Danny turned toward me, stuck his hand out to shake -I did- and … he said, “Thank you, we can’t aford to keep doin what we’re doin, I’m votin for him too.”

    He was serious, this is a man that will say what he means, and I fairly taken back … and felt more hopeful about the issue which has been brought up recently in the polls. People try to imply it’s not there, although, everyone knows that it is.

  26. 26 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 01:17


    Huh! Pulled out of Wisconsin you say! I wonder if anyone bothered to tell Palin. Nobody told her about Michigan; she didn’t know until she read it in the paper–some paper or other, lol.

  27. 27 Kelsie in Houston
    October 16, 2008 at 01:18

    Austin is a lovely combination of old and new; despite my intense dislike of the American political system as a whole, I find the Texas State Capitol an inspiring structure, even nestled in a forest of skyscrapers. Austin has also grown up–nearly one million people big in its own right.

  28. 28 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 01:20

    ARGH! My TV in my study blew up, and I can’t make my TV tuner card in the computer work either.

    Y’all may be spared my play-by-play commentary. Or deprived of it, as the case may be. Try to have fun anyway… 🙂

  29. 29 Kelsie in Houston
    October 16, 2008 at 01:22

    CNN, the BBC, and others will stream live via their internet sites…you could try that?

  30. 30 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 01:24


    Oh, sure. I think DC is beautfiul, even if I’m not always happy with what they do in all those lovely buildings. No contradiction. Anyway, Austin is not exactly “America,” right? It’s Texas! Maybe not entirely “Texas” either… A liberal stranger in its own state; no wonder I like it. Even the weather is a bit more moderate.

  31. 31 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 01:27


    Duh, thanks for the streaming suggestion. Panic is a terrible state of mind; one overlooks the obvious. I’m going to go grab some groceries and I’ll probably join in part way through.

  32. 32 Tom D Ford
    October 16, 2008 at 01:58

    The Project Runway Finale is on at the same time and there is some real talent on that show, I wonder what their numbers will be.

  33. 33 Amy
    October 16, 2008 at 02:04


    The great thing about TiVo – you can watch the debate and then Project Runway 🙂

  34. 34 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 02:11

    Drinks on me for whoever can explain why a tax break for every company that hires someone in the US is not corporate welfare, other than that Obama, a Democrat, is proposing it.

  35. 35 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 02:12

    Plumbers net $250K per year? In what fantasy world does that happen?

  36. 36 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 02:20

    I know how to save billions of dollars in defense spending What the hey? Bomb, bomb, Iran wants to save money on defense spending?

  37. 37 Jessica in NYC
    October 16, 2008 at 02:20

    Pangolin, I know where do I get an application?

  38. 38 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 02:21

    We can raise taxes on the “wealthy” because they’re not popular, and not numerous.

    But seriously, why on earth are they talking about cutting spending? In the teeth of a recession? That’s so Herbert Hoover.

  39. 39 Jessica in NYC
    October 16, 2008 at 02:22

    OUCH! McCain just hacked Bush… not going to help him with his base.

    McC if you don’t want to be compared to Bush, you should have have been his side kick for 8 years….

  40. October 16, 2008 at 02:22

    I don’t understand why Obama soesn’t point out that under the Bush tax cuts we have seen unemployment skyrocket.


    The Bush Tax Cuts were passed in ’01

  41. 42 Jessica in NYC
    October 16, 2008 at 02:27

    Oh McCain, you’re coming off as a bitter biter grumpy old man…
    Shut [–] about all your friends, special interest groups are NOT friends….
    Booo hooo you got your feelings hurt….

  42. 43 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 02:28

    A Republican is complaining that the Democrat has more money? Where’s the white rabbit?

  43. 44 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 02:33

    McCain’s GONNA BLOW!!! Duck!!

  44. 45 Paul Harbin - Waco, Tx.
    October 16, 2008 at 02:35

    john maccain does crack, proof is his addressing of the people at his rallies … some of which he stopped … is now saying Obama is attacking veterans at his rallies? lol …. wow.


  45. 46 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 02:37

    The Annenburgs who fund George Bush and John McCain also fund William Ayers educational work. Oops.

  46. 47 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 02:39

    OMG, full meltdown. McCain is whining so pathetically, “You wouldn’t come to my town meetings, you’re collecting more money than me, it’s so unfair.” Wow, what happened to the rought, tough prison camp survivor? He’s traded in his leathers for lace.

  47. 48 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 02:42

    To be fair: Obama needs to quit looking so happy as McCain digs himself deeper into his hole.

  48. October 16, 2008 at 02:44

    So CNN has a group of men who hate Obama and Women who hate McCain and obviously Sarah Palin. The lines never meet. The mens lines drop into the negative before Obama even starts talking. lol.

  49. 50 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 02:44

    I have a special need for a freth–uh, brunch–breash–BREATH of fresh air.

  50. 51 Julie P
    October 16, 2008 at 02:45

    Ethics reform for Palin?! As long as it’s in her favor! Power hungry.

  51. October 16, 2008 at 02:46

    Pangolin, we have been headed for this for years. This all started when the #1 rapper in the US became a white guy and the #1 golfer became a Black guy. We have been in an enviornment of anything goes ever since.

  52. 53 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 02:48

    Of course Palin needs ethics reform. The old ethics were not to her liking. 🙂

  53. October 16, 2008 at 02:49

    Too much time is being spent in the Presidential deabte on issues of character, personality, and who is buddies with whom. There is hardly any interactive format for the debate. Did any laypeople have any say at all about what questions would be posed tonight? Are these two going to talk about real issues that will affect us?

    Will CBS have my CSI?


  54. 55 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 02:51

    Obama: “We invented the automobile.”

    Ooops. I won’t tell Mr. Benz if you won’t.

  55. 56 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 02:53

    Does anybody know of a number of idled offshore oil drilling rigs? My understanding is that we just lost some this hurricane season.

    We absolutely cannot start drilling right away.

  56. 57 Julie P
    October 16, 2008 at 03:01

    McCain keeps bringing up Joe. He must be talking about Joe McCarthy.

  57. 58 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 03:02

    I do hope Obama is being insincere about trade, just saying what the rust belt wants to hear, because that’s just scary. If we require every trading partner to have impeccable labor standards, we’re going to be very lonely, and very poor. And we won’t be helping the workers in other countries, obviously.


    I think they build more rigs as they need them?

  58. 59 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 03:03

    One third of health care expense goes towards the cost of health insurance and claims management. Your doctor hires a person whose sole job is to talk to health insurance companies. The health insurance companies in turn hire a full time person to deny claims that doctor submits.

    One doctor; two people wasting time and money to provide no actual service. People want health CARE not health insurance. The health insurance company is just a parasitic cost.

  59. 60 Paul Harbin - Waco, Tx.
    October 16, 2008 at 03:05

    Well, we didn’t invent chocolate either but, we did invent the industry to bring to many.
    As we did invent the automobile industry. I’m pretty sure that’s what Obama was getting at.

    For myself, “I need a flesh of breath air.”

  60. 61 steve
    October 16, 2008 at 03:06

    If anyone picked “Joe” as one of their drinking terms, I think they’d be passed out by now.

  61. 62 Bob in Queensland
    October 16, 2008 at 03:06

    The average cost of health insurance in America is $5800 because the old and those with chronic conditions have no coverage.

  62. 63 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 03:06


    …health CARE, not health insurance.

    That’s what I’ve been thinking for years now. Ever since the failed Hillarycare, or before it, the two are used interchangeably. Makes me nuts.

  63. 64 Jessica in NYC
    October 16, 2008 at 03:07

    I’m going to change my name with Joe.

    Everyone drink twice, b/c this is such a boring debate!

  64. 65 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 03:07

    Anybody who thinks buying health insurance across state lines is a good idea hasn’t had to try and correct an complaint with a credit card company. The whole point of that plan is to create health insurance in the model of credit cards.

  65. 66 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 03:09

    Darnit Steve, you beat me to it. Joe the plumber, who knew. I could have been happily unconscious by now, and not bothering anybody.

  66. October 16, 2008 at 03:11

    lol, I am pretty messed up. I am drinking everytime a promis has been made that the preident has to get the congress to pass before he can do it. and everytime one of them lies.

  67. 68 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 03:12

    Bob–$5800? Obama keeps saying $12,000. I didn’t look it up because I assumed he wouldn’t lie. LOL.

  68. October 16, 2008 at 03:15

    So Barack is saying that sometimes people introduce bills that have no merit include something that is against your ideologies just so they can use it against you later? conspiracy theories abound.

  69. 70 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 03:16

    Jonathan~ Pandering all around on cars and trade issues.

    America has been bumped down to #29 on infant mortality. Life appears to begin at conception and end at birth.

  70. 71 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 03:21

    Whoo-hoo! Student loans for everybody. Could somebody explain to McCain how well high debt burdens are working in this society?

  71. 72 Jessica in NYC
    October 16, 2008 at 03:26


    Fantastic presidential answer. Remind women you are pro-choice and support up holding Roe v Wade.

  72. 73 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 03:26


    Does that include “partial” birth? (Yuck.) Apparently that’s out of bounds now. Charming to hear McCain snort derisively about medically necessary abortion: “The ‘health’ of the mother–well, you can stretch that to mean anything.” Wow.

    How does voting “Present” equal aligning with extreme interests?

    (Spectacular sunset here just faded to black.)

  73. 74 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 03:28

    Can somebody explain how a student whose parents don’t have a car is going to get to a voucher school? How about a student whose parent is already at work? Vouchers schools are a filter designed to de-fund and destroy community schools.

  74. 75 Kelsie in Houston
    October 16, 2008 at 03:31

    I don’t know who won or lost (it’s technically not over yet), but I would say this to both Mr Obama and Mr McCain:

    Stop using children here and around the world as a political football. At a time when millions upon millions of children around the world are starving; at a time when millions in the United States sleep each night without health care access, your rhetoric is offensively offhand and infuriatingly manipulative.

    Children are not political instruments or “assets.”

    Stop using them that way.

  75. 76 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 03:33

    It’s not gonna be easy, but we’re gonna have to swallow the bitter pill of….. middle class tax cuts.

    OK, Senator Obama, be brutal, we can take it. We’re tough.

  76. October 16, 2008 at 03:40

    Children are not political instruments or “assets.”

    Stop using them that way.

    100% agree!

  77. 78 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 03:45


    Happy to help: You get to a “voucher school” the same ways you get to the horrible public school now. If it’s close, you walk; if it’s not, you take a bus or your folks drive you. Why would it be any different?

    Voucher schools are not designed to destroy anyone, but to educate children, which public schools are not doing, especially for those who need them most, the poor.

  78. 79 steve
    October 16, 2008 at 03:45

    @ Jessica

    Even Justice Ginsburg thinks Roe v. Wade is horrible law. Even my incredibly liberal constitutional law professor, though supporting abortion, says that it’s just a horrible decision, in the line of Dred Scott or the decision that upheld the draft as constitution despite it being in clear violation of the 13th amendment. I bet Obama, after having taken Constitutional Law, and being a lawyer, hate to bite his tongue when he said that, because no person with any understanding of Constutional law could agree with roe v. wade, it’s just the worst decision of the 2nd half of the 20th century other than the draft decision. Absolutely no basis in the constitution. Even a bunch of my classmates, all liberal, all pro abortion, after reading the case and studying the constitution were “ummm, errr. wow. err..” Even me, before taking Constitutional Law was that way, and just seeing justices just wanting a result, despite their duties as justices creating rights out of thin air, really changed me.

  79. 80 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 03:49

    Ha, an NPR commentator just speculated on a “Palin-Plumber” ticket in 2012.

  80. 81 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 03:50

    Kelsie~ children are unfortunately used as political levers by both parties. Even if they don’t mention children directly a child watching a parent degrade due to untreated health problems is a brutal experience. Ask my kids.

    You cannot separate the welfare of children from the welfare of families.

  81. 82 Roberto
    October 16, 2008 at 03:50

    RE final 08 presidential debate:

    ——— Evolved from soccer moms of the 90s to Home Depot dads to hockey mom and finally to Joe Plumber today.

    Advantage McCain. Clearly he was champing at the bit and Obama was in an uncomfortable place. Makes no difference as the next president will not be the future of the country. He’ll be the transition to the coming mega global events that will force a reactive, not a planning, implementing presidency.

    Policy points just bunkem. Ain’t gonna happen.

    McCain has the fire, Obama the talking points. Pick yer poison for now and hope you can make it to 2012 where the real campaign starts in a completely reshaped landscape. Independents will catch fire and rep/dem stranglehold may be drowning.

  82. October 16, 2008 at 03:54

    Obama is exuded and maintained a superior, calm and collected demeanour that spoke volumes of the man and the stature of the debate itself.
    The contest is not over just yet though, and it would be foolish of the Democrats to think they have the election in the bag. Stranger things have happened. During a particular UK election Labour party leader Neil Kinnock was riding high in the polls, and predicted to be the next Labour/Socialist prime minister. He held a huge political rally similar to that of Obama’s Colorado one, in Sheffield. His mood was arrogant and triumphalist and it did him no favours. The predominantly right wing press turned on him and he was thoroughly castigated by the Sun newspaper (best selling right wing paper to this day), particularly for his self-congratulatory behaviour before the actual day of election. The headline “Would the last person to leave Britain please turn out the lights.” Many people changed their mind and vote at the last minute due to the forcefulness of the Sun’s headline and lead news story. Rupert Murdoch is the proprietor of Sky News, Sky Sports, the Sun, News of the World, The Times and Sunday Times, wielding immense influence upon the media in the UK. He owns Fox News, Fox TV, Twentieth Century Fox films, Fox business and corporations etc, etc. including broadcast of The Simpsons that Fox TV had call to complain about one particular episode, and then withdrew that complaint in the full knowledge that they were party to and authorised its transmission. Shooting oneself in the foot comes to mind. The New York Post, The Wall Street Journal US, European and Asian editions, The Dow Jones Newswires, MarketWatch.com are just a small example of Murdoch businesses as a whole, that stretch right across the globe. Cont’d.

  83. October 16, 2008 at 03:55

    During the buildup to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, all 175 Murdoch-owned newspapers worldwide editorialised in favour of the invasion of Iraq the war.[16] Murdoch also served on the board of directors of the libertarian Cato Institute. News Corp-owned Fox News is often criticized for alleged conservative bias, though it denies these allegations.
    If you don’t think that this monopoly of media control isn’t wielding huge influence and really affecting the way people think in the USA primarily and beyond, then you’re sadly deluded and refuse to see cast iron examples of deliberate media manipulation when it’s placed directly in front of your eyes.
    When Lieutenant General Tommy Franks joint commander of the invasion of both Iraq and Afghanistan said in response to a question posed about the number of Iraqi civilian casualties – “We don’t do body counts” and dismissed it in such cavalier fashion. Done primarily to withdraw any association George Bush could have to what was the DOCUMENTED CHAOS and UNMITIGATED DISASTER that was VIETNAM, and so as not to draw any parallels whatsoever between the two conflicts. NOT ONE MAJOR NEWS NETWORK in the US and also NONE in the UK took the commander TO TASK and CHALLENGED HIM ON THIS POINT. WHY ON EARTH NOT!

  84. 85 Count Iblis
    October 16, 2008 at 04:07

    CNN poll: 58% say that Obama won. Also the favorable opinion of Obama has gone up while the favorable opinion for McCainnhas gone down.

    In the small panel they have in Ohio of undecided people, 3 people have now made the decision to vote for Obama, none made the decision to vote for McCain.

    So, by the standards that really matter (i.e. what do US voters think), Obama won.

  85. 86 Pangolin
    October 16, 2008 at 04:08

    Well, at least we can look forward to a Palin-Plumber video. Or something claiming to be a Palin-Plumber video.

  86. 87 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 04:21


    But we don’t have rights only when the Supreme Court “creates rights out of thin air” and bestows them upon us.

    We have rights because we’re free people.

    That’s the purpose of the American endeavor. That’s why people left civilization and crossed an ocean to start all over again, and that’s why they wrote a Declaration of Independence, and a Constitution, and a Bill of Rights, all explicitly designed to proclaim and protect the primacy of the individual above all else. There is no more important principle.

    Obama didn’t just “take” Constitutional law; he taught it at a rather well-regarded university. Is it not even conceivable that his view might be valid?

    I’m sorry about the other day by the way.

  87. 88 craig anglin
    October 16, 2008 at 04:24

    If Americans cant see what is going by now this country is dome. mcCain is going run this counrty into the ground he is evil and we cant trust him, look at his choice for running mate a person who has no idea of what is going on with America and problems face and she dont have a clue how to fix them. Obama proved one more for the third and final time thathe knows what to do to fix the problems that we are in and make a beter future for us. Please vote Obama on nov. 4th for you and yours childrens future.

  88. 89 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 04:26

    I’m thinking Palin-Plumber PORN video. Or something claiming to be a Palin-Plumber porn video. 🙂

  89. 90 Jennifer
    October 16, 2008 at 04:46

    Re: Political Debate

    McCain did great-linked the fact that we don’t need to throw money AT issues, we need to fix them. He was well informed and next to him Obama looked very inexperienced and in way over his head. He skipped right over talking at all about Sarah Palin, didn’t admit all the little hairballs he sends to do his dirty work, and proceeded to flip flop on everything.

    Thank you Mr. McCain for pointing out what Obama did not know~you are not George Bush. We wouldn’t want to elect W to a 4th term! haha

    All in all, McCain gained even more respect from me. He knew that for us to be secure we have to stop spending and work to improve what we already have. I have an even lower opinion of Obama after that crap he pulled.

    I liked Bob’s ending quote. Apparently, he listens to his mom’s advice too! 😀

    My complaint isn’t so much the debate but this topic: bringing up children with special needs is NOT “peddling” for a vote or using them as an asset. CHILDREN WITH SPECIAL NEEDS HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED IN A MUCH DIFFERENT LIGHT THAN “REGULAR” CHILDREN. Many have individualized education plans that are tailored to their development level. This requires more than one person be in the room. Teachers need to have appropriate training to ensure they know what they are doing and are dealing with children appropriately. There needs to be enough staff in the classroom setting to ensure that all children there receive the best education possible. Like “regular” children, children with special needs deserve a quality education.

    It was a good debate and I am in a great mood! 😀

    Definitely shorter now! 🙂

  90. 91 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 04:51

    Um, I guess that was what you already meant, Mr. P., right? [covering my face in shame] Delicious Barbadan rum makes me thinker than I drunk I was…..

  91. 92 Dennis@OCC
    October 16, 2008 at 04:51

    Hi everyone!
    I saw the 3rd and final debate on presidential

    It was OK….


  92. 93 tiff
    October 16, 2008 at 04:52

    There is a Joe the plumber who asked Obama if he was going to tax him as he is a small business, he was to a point he could buy new trucks etc and hire an employee, that is grow his business and realize his American dream . He lives in a neighborhood where the highest house price is 140,000. Obama told him yes he needed to tax him to “spread the wealth” to those not as well off. Like socialism in Europe. That is why McCain was saying that the American people, not the government should be able to spend their own money. Poor Joe was very upset about what Obama was going to do. No new trucks or employees, maybe sell trucks and cut employees. Whoever gets President needs to do what Kennedy and Regan did, cut taxes for all including business. It worked to bring the economy back and create jobs. Raising taxes in a recession, well Hover did it and we had a depression, Carter did it and we had double digit unemployment and he went down as the worst President in history. Obama’s plan is bad for the economy. And yes, he did indeed vote for partial birth abortion and letting the baby die if it survived the abortion, that is no medical attention. Look it up and you will see, although he said he didn’t, oh yes he did.

  93. 94 Dennis@OCC
    October 16, 2008 at 04:54


    Children that have a disability are usually given the I.E.P. programme…

    Interest of full disclosure: I had my I.E.P. Programme and received
    a diploma….


  94. 95 crikeycooperative
    October 16, 2008 at 04:57

    I’m Joe Europe and a thinking man. What the hell does America have over there? Is that really, really democracy? Is seems more like an unholy, unchristrian massive money spend towards spin and presentation without substance leading to benign dictatorship!

    My favourite American benign dictator was Ronald Reagan. There was something believable about his unreal movie-theatre style.

    Have a great day America and when you “vote” I hope it feels good and worthy and that you get something out of it. Oh and yeah, I’ll have a Euro-Peace burger with onions and yellow-belly mustard and FRENCH-fries… just being ironic about Europeans… No, really. You guys enjoy life, you’re original anyway, though I have to confess your country scares the mustard out of my burger!



  95. 96 Dennis@OCC
    October 16, 2008 at 05:00


    I am taking out STUDENT LOANS for my

    And i am receiving state and federal
    grants for my education….

    Plus, I will be getting back money….


  96. 97 parth guragain
    October 16, 2008 at 05:05

    this us election have been very keenly watched event all around the world.what i think that people from all around the world want to see barrack as president.but it doen’t matters .what matters is whom the american want as president.if you talk of support for president outside america it is definately barrack.i live in nepal and thorough my conversation with many people i find most people support barrack and want to see him as next american pesident.before it was equally divided between hillary and barrack but now almost every one support barrack.the psyche behind barrack support outside america is his larger than life image.every one can relate themself to barrack.it is a great success story for a black american to be presidential hopeful.if barrack wins election this will lead to great boost for many marginilised section of community to fight for their rights.if barrack wins it will be of symbolic importance all around world.

  97. 98 Tom D Ford
    October 16, 2008 at 05:18

    Well, I watched it on C-Span and then listened to the callers afterwords and I am just stunned at how effective the smears and lies work, I am amazed at how ignorant the Conservative Republican base is. They work so hard to keep people ignorant and in poverty and they are so successful at it!

    Frank Luntz must have a huge history backing him in re-framing words and arguments into acceptable forms to entice the poor and ignorant into voting against their own self interests.

    And McCain is well versed in those “code” words. “Redistribute Wealth”. Big Government”. “Create jobs by giving tax cuts to the wealthy”.

    What a slimeball!

  98. 99 Jennifer
    October 16, 2008 at 05:36

    @ Tiff

    Thank you for bringing that point up about partial birth abortion. Would Obama lie, distort the truth, or try to snow someone? Oh, no, not NEVER! 😉 He’s perfect and just the leader we need!


    My brother did as well. My mom had to fight tooth and nail for anything at all to be done for him. His teacher has never taught before and she has NO special training at all to deal with children who required special care. It ended up being a point of my brother was in a daycare type of environment; not any type of learning environment at all. It became an issue when my mom walked into the classroom as his teacher was spraying him in the face with a squirt bottle to discipline him.

  99. 100 Tom D Ford
    October 16, 2008 at 05:42

    @ Jennifer October 16, 2008 at 4:46 am

    “Re: Political Debate

    McCain did great-linked the fact that we don’t need to throw money AT issues, we need to fix them. He was well informed and next to him Obama looked very inexperienced and in way over his head. He skipped right over talking at all about Sarah Palin, didn’t admit all the little hairballs he sends to do his dirty work, and proceeded to flip flop on everything.

    Thank you Mr. McCain for pointing out what Obama did not know~you are not George Bush. We wouldn’t want to elect W to a 4th term! haha

    All in all, McCain gained even more respect from me. He knew that for us to be secure we have to stop spending and work to improve what we already have. I have an even lower opinion of Obama after that crap he pulled.”

    Forget a Masters degree, you have not yet earned a Bachelors degree in anything, you have absolutely no Critical Thinking Skills!

    By the way, what “College” did you BUY your alleged undergrad degree from online?

    Hm, what Buy-Bull College?

  100. 101 Louche
    October 16, 2008 at 05:59

    I enjoyed this debate. Found myself tuning it out at times, but the closing on education was great. I’m an Obama supporter, but when McCain gave his argument on education, I thought he was really saying something good. Then Obama agreed with him, and I was like, “Phew!” because I didn’t want a president who doesn’t support charter schools. But I thought vouchers were the same thing. I didn’t understand why Obama didn’t support vouchers and thought they sounded good, but then I looked it up online. They do sound good, but the NEA opposes them because they are designed to aid the wealthy (according to the NEA website). So I guess I still have to agree with Obama after all! That just makes me more confident about voting for him.

    I also researched Roe v Wade during the debate. That’s the first time I’ve researched anything based on what a presidential candidate has said. I feel more educated now. 😀

  101. October 16, 2008 at 06:26

    McCain got his clock cleaned on the Ayers thing. Obama was baiting McCain to ask about Ayers and tried to do a hit-and-run with time running out but Schieffer extended time to let Obama give the response that he was waiting to give.

  102. 103 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 07:53


    Asking the NEA about vouchers is like asking a fox how to secure your hen-house. The wealthy don’t need them, because (1) their public schools are relatively good, and (2) they can afford private schools. It’s the poor who are left out in the cold, who are ill-served by terrible schools to which they can’t afford alternatives, and who would be served by vouchers.

    Bashing rich people is a cheap trick at the best of times. Bashing the rich as a phony argument to hurt poor children is contemptible. And for the NEA to do it is obscene.

  103. 104 Karin from the UK
    October 16, 2008 at 10:20

    Not wanting to go into all the finer points of the differences between the two presidential candidates I am having a distinct deja-vu about this election.

    I witnessed a young, charismatic Tony Blair being elected on a ticket of ‘Whiter than white politics’ (we are not as corrupt as the other party), ‘We will change Britain’ and ‘Things can only get better’

    It was a landslide victory. Tony Blair was hailed the new Messiah of british politics. The whole election process looked like an american presidential election. I now lived in ‘Cool Brittania’

    And I don’t deny that he has done well in some areas. However a lot of people expected more change or maybe a different kind of change, and a whole lot of other people, who believed that everything would change were left very cynical. Anyway he left and it looks as if people might be looking for another change – back to the conservatives…

    I find myself listening to people talk about Barack Obama in the same way they talked about Tony Blair.

    Hello….. he is one man, a politician, with a party to placate and a whole lot of people who gave him a whole lot of money for this election campaign. Not much change so far. Maybe when politicians talk about change… they want to change you and me, but not themselves?

  104. October 16, 2008 at 11:02

    And one of the most infuriating things about presidential elections in the US is that presidents have less power than prime ministers in fact. It is Congress – in a separate branch of government – that makes the laws that presidents are required to live with and implement at the federal level. There should be much more focus on administrative character than party leadership – with some kind of lead spokesperson or another party leader talking about partisan policy differences (ok, yes – something like a parliamentary system). Presidential candidates should focus entirely on areas within their Constitutionally assigned powers. Candidates for Congress should be held to issues within the Constitutional areas assigned to the federal government. State issues should be left to state elections. And there should be special citizen representatives who call all politicians to task for driving over civil rights while pushing for more government power.

  105. October 16, 2008 at 11:33

    I have two short post that past week on cutting taxes and the assertion that republicans do it and democrats don’t. Taxing Cuts For Jobs And Borrowing To Pay Salaries and Raising Taxes vs. Reducing wealth

    The short of first one is this. The current administration cut taxes for business. It was the second biggest in history and the biggest in 20 years. Two things are factual. 1) immediately after the cuts were passed, unemployment that had held steady at about 4% during the Clinton years, jumped to over 6%. I posted the link to ht Bureau of Labor Statistics earlier. There was a planning of period and eventual drop that was caused by people who had been laid off coming to an end of their benefits. (There for they must no longer be unemployed.) 2) we have seen a mass exodus of jobs to China, India, and South America. (So I guess you can say that it did create jobs.) We have seen our trade deficit grow at exponentially ever since. I think I’ll pay more taxes over being unemployed. I mean is you are already borrowing to pay salaries, what is the chances a tax cut is going to make you think, “I should keep borrowing”?

  106. October 16, 2008 at 12:10

    The second “common sense” assertion is that republicans don’t raise taxes as often as democrats. On paper this is accurate. However they are the biggest sponsors of, “just printing more money.” US wealth is finite, like a pie. If you cut it into smaller pieces, you still have the same amount of pie. The only difference is that it will take more pieces to fill you up. The question goes like this. Would you rather send the government $30 more a month out of your check, or spend $30 more in your gas tank. With McCain’s plan the money ends up in the same spot I guess.

    You would never hire somebody just because you get a tax break. That is silly. taxes change like the wind. Great the federal government gives you a 2% break but the state and local combined raise them 3%. When an employer decides to higher a new employee, it is because his business has a need. There are more people buying his product or service then the current staff can handle. Then you have to consider is that can be sustained. Hiring a new employee full time means paying insurance, medical, and vacations and yes taxes. At the small business level, taxes are even on the radar as a reason to hire somebody.

    As far as “Joe Plumber” goes, I worked for him. The bastage didn’t want to pay the aforementioned benefits. So I worked in the 1099 environment instead. So if you want “Joe” to hire a new employees find a way to reduce the cost of his insurance liabilities.

    Oh, also, don’t feel too bad for Joe. Under Bush he has been able to go out and buy a Hummer to drive and then get the government to pay for it under the Tax Code 179 “the rapid depreciation break” Of course, he can only use it as a “business vehicle.”

  107. 108 mohammed bin ali gaber
    October 16, 2008 at 12:29

    the third debate was concetrate on economy problems but what think obama has won this debate i hope from him to change the life of amricans

  108. 109 Brett
    October 16, 2008 at 13:27

    Oh I saw about half of it and boy was it a good one!

    They didn’t blink nearly as much as in the first debate where they each were blinking every second.

    McCain’s comment “Mr. Obama, if you wanted to run against George Bush, you should have done so four years ago.” Wow, I nearly fell out of my chair laughing. McCain was on point with the comebacks!

    Who is Joe the Plumber? Was Joe Six Pack not PC or something? He changed his name?

  109. 110 Pangolin-California
    October 16, 2008 at 14:11

    “Joe the Plumber” in all likelihood is a construction contracting plumber who gets contracts to install plumbing in new residential developments. If you were on a development site in the US in the last ten years you would find a guy like Joe sitting in a truck while his ten man, illegal-immigrant-crew did all the actual work at one-fourth the cost of a citizen worker.

    Joe can go pound salt for all I care. Whining because he has to pay a fraction more taxes on $250K of income that he nets on other peoples labor.

    The people who purchase houses guy like “Joe” build move in to find the plumbing has leaks, blockages and bad joints. It happens all the time.

  110. 111 Hamza Bendani
    October 16, 2008 at 14:21

    In my view, Senator Obama has clearly won this final debate. I will give objective opinions on why I think that this is totally true.
    First of all, as soon as we raeched the part of negative campaigning, Senator McCain became much more comfortable than he was when they both took up economic, education and health care issues. Senator McCain seems to know that his area of weakness is “What we will do tomorrow”. As soon as they keep pointing fingers, McCain seems to love doing that.

    As for Senator Obama, he has been clearly stating his plans. For example, Obama clearly says that he will provide tax CUTS for 95% of working families in America, Senator McCain immediately says that Senator Obama will raise taxes on working families. This has happened in all three debates. Why does McCain keep doing that?

    Senator Obama is a more straightforward person, who lists methodically his plans as President and Senator McCain keeps dwelling on emotions, love, intangible issues. Its like a love affair with the American public.

  111. 112 Roberto
    October 16, 2008 at 15:22

    My favourite American benign dictator was Ronald Reagan. There was something believable about his unreal movie-theatre style.

    ——— It’s the cowboy image modern American presidents crave.

    Think Teddy Roosevelt, Lyndon Johnson, Regan. GW Sr an Eastern socialite relocated to Texas at least had the history of being a WW2 decorated hero combat pilot, the rough equivilent to a modern day cowboy. GW Jr just a wanna be fighter pilot/cowboy/boy mountainbike racer.

    Here’s Barak the cowboy: http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=2842

    Not bad, looks ready for High Noon down at the OK corral. His supporters not too sophisticated though as usually the guys in black hats were the rustlers, bushwhackers, and badland outlaws. Guess they wanted to put an edge on his goody two shoes image.

    McCain don’t have to wear the cowboy hat as he is the essence of fighter pilot and wears the American west on his sleeve, in his heart, and in the fire in his eyes.

    A bit unsettling to highbrow, sushi gnoshin’, free range chicken shoppin’ wine sippin’, well shaved and coiffed modern sophistilytes, but it is what it is.

  112. 113 crikeycooperative
    October 16, 2008 at 16:33

    October 16, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    McCain don’t have to wear the cowboy hat as he is the essence of fighter pilot and wears the American west on his sleeve, in his heart, and in the fire in his eyes.

    … But would he make a good American benign dictator if he was given the swishing stick of power?



  113. 114 Tom D Ford
    October 16, 2008 at 16:35

    Tom D Ford October 16, 2008 at 5:42 am

    “@ Jennifer October 16, 2008 at 4:46 am

    “Re: Political Debate”

    I apologize for that post of mine, I know it is rude to point out someones ignorance, and faith-based indoctrination instead of education, so I’m sorry.

  114. 115 Pangolin-California
    October 16, 2008 at 16:52

    McCain don’t have to wear the cowboy hat as he is the essence of fighter pilot and wears the American west on his sleeve, in his heart, and in the fire in his eyes.

    Dude’s an Ace! He splashed five planes. Of course he was flying all of them at the time so that just made him an ace for North Vietnam. It’s no wonder they tried to give him back to the US early. They were trying to get him back in the cockpit.

  115. 116 Jennifer
    October 16, 2008 at 17:35

    Re: “McCain don’t have to wear the cowboy hat as he is the essence of fighter pilot and wears the American west on his sleeve, in his heart, and in the fire in his eyes.”

    Taking all the bitterness and ignorance out of that statement, it’s very true.

  116. 117 Jonathan
    October 16, 2008 at 19:35


    I don’t eat sushi, but after the last eight years, yeah, the thought of another fighter pilot as president is a bit unsettling, like ya said.

    It’s not a disqualification for office, but it isn’t a qualification either.

  117. October 17, 2008 at 13:06

    Karin re. comment on Oct 16th, 10.20am

    Like you, I’m from the UK. I believe you’re wrong and that we’ve become so accustomed to becoming so cynical about all politics and politicians in general, particularly in the UK. As we know only too well the so little they’ve fundamentally affected or changed within the political landscape. Be they Conservative, Socialist Labour or New Labour, any policy that has been implemented to good effect, has usually been undone when there has been a political change over. The Liberal party philosophy has been so marginalised by the overwhelming control of the other two, that an alternative has never got beyond the starting line, with the exception of the short lived inside the political fast lane of that oh so fleeting moment of Lord David Owen and Sir David Steel (the two Davids) forming the SDP and then SDP Liberal Alliance. It eventually fell apart so spectacularly due to disagreements about leadership issues, basic policy direction allying itself to socialist and liberal ideas within a one party framework. The one time media support for a fresh and dynamic approach to UK politics, and then the inevitable sniping and calculated disassembling by the press, being relentless in their criticism and seeking its fast and rapid demise was apparent once the media barons realised that they weren’t entirely happy with political propositions being tabled to challenge the ethos, principle, structure and whole approach of UK politics at the time.
    Blair made pretence of offering similar to the people in 1997 and that he would be everything to all men.
    Maybe, for a short time we all fell for the dream on a plate scenario, that we could all have a slice of the pie as a nation in harmony with itself, after 18 years of Conservative power and policies. America, you think 8 years of Bush was unbearable, and then just add another 10 of the same and think where you might be then, probably on the brink of Armageddon. We began to see through the mist and fog of political obfuscation of “Blair’s Vision Thing”. The spin, double speak and half-truths began to be emerge into the light of day. Iraq brought it all home with his utter contempt, conceit, arrogance and wholly misplaced religious zeal in total conflict to what was supposed to have been the passage of a just and forthright political process. More importantly he totally ignored the sentiment and protest of millions in Britain. This was just more of the same (Conservatism) but worse and wrapped up in a different name that made it seem more appealing as a political force, namely “New Labour” not old Labour but nice, shiny and new with a real glossy cover. He was a great admirer of Thatcher. We should’ve seen it coming! He rode roughshod over the wishes of the people, and who elected him in the first place. Just wanting to secure his place in political history (his Thatcher moment) was all that concerned him, and he’d stop at nothing in trying to achieve it for his self-serving purpose. Just for the record Education, Education, Education mantra a lie. Kids are more poorly educated than ever before. The NHS of which I can speak from personal experience is an unmitigated disaster. Think of all the perceived problems and disasters s highlighted by the media, and more than triple them in reality. It’s only half the story. The NHS “Safe in our Hands.” DO ME A FAVOUR! It’s UTTER & ABSOLUTE CHAOS! Every policy change New Labour has presided over is a carefully hidden LIE, another LIE and even more LIES! Add to that the war in Iraq primarily and Afghanistan plus the “War on Terror” is a carefully packaged enigma within a conundrum within an enigma scenario! How best to confuse the people so as they don’t ask too many questions, and don’t understand what’s really going on, become so bored with and therefore just leave everything to so called good governance. THANK GOD MOST OF THE ELECTORATE ARE SO ILL INFORMED AND JUST CAN’T BE BOTHERED WITH THE ISSUES. ISN’T LACK OF EDUCATION A WONDERFUL THING IN THE HANDS OF A CALCULATING AND DEVIOUS GOVERNMENT WORKING TO ITS OWN ENDS. Political leaders must thank their LUCKY STARS that most of the nation are SO THICK, because they SURE AS HELL WOULDN’T GET AWAY WITH THE THINGS THAT THEY SO EASILY DO, ON SO MANY OCCASIONS! Cont’d.

  118. October 17, 2008 at 14:21

    Karin re. your comment, Oct 16th at 10.20am,

    Obama is different I believe. Only time will tell. But it is clear that if he can handle himself with such consummate ease around a real seasoned contender like McCain, then he can handle himself with anyone. His very demeanour in the debates reveals a calm and inner strength, and for all the challenging and last chance attacks from McCain, he has coped admirably and deflected the entire terrorist nonsense story. By not setting preconditions for a meeting with world leaders, the discussions, negotiations and anything that will emanate from them is a positive step forward. What has the former achieved? Dictating and bullying for the sake of dictating and bullying and to what ends? Resentment, mistrust, anger, frustration leading to antagonism, hate and worse, all because WE’RE BIGGER & BETTER than you being forced upon them!
    He appears to be seeking a new way that is not closing us from examining and putting government truly under the microscope. Also, not forgetting he is history in the making being the first black president of the USA, (lets not argue over the semantics of this) and a long time coming. Can he afford to fail to any great extent? He has a duty to his voters, energizing a new electorate and garnering together a vast national vote from the political wilderness of the disenfranchised. All those who have placed their faith in him from right across the voter spectrum want to be rewarded, desperately, by his election to office. If he fails, then he fails in most spectacular fashion and will disincentivise all non white voters into offering their support in such a concerted fashion ever again. The alternative to Neo-Con agenda will have been have been trampled upon once more, and two enemies of the people hate and fear, but the welcome allies of Republicans and the like will re-emerge, and America will happily isolate itself once more from discussion, negotiation and all necessary compromise upon the international stage, and another light will go out. Readily replaced by deception, intrigue, lies, and total dishonesty and mistrust on both sides of the nation and the government.
    It’s going to be really tough to inherit such an enduring economic and policy destructive Republican failure. Anybody who says any different is being disingenuous with themselves and the nation.
    He stands on the brink of history for all the right reasons to set a path and course for America that will leave behind a positive and everlasting legacy for the USA. It is high time for America to join the world in cooperation and communication at every level.
    Time to forge new alliances with countries whereby the US can trade and establish a mutual respect, all the time keeping a careful eye upon a minority of subversives in reality. Time to sit down with Palestine and Israel in particular, as well as Iran, Russia, China, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Cuba, Syria, Saudi Arabia, African nations etc, and find the things that tie us together as nations and establish common ground with one another.

    Yes, seeing the world through ROSE TINTED SPECTACLES you can say, but GODDAMIT are we just going to carry on in the same way as before creating the same problems, making the same tiresome mistakes, fostering enmity and hatred on both sides that will lead to inevitable conflict! ARE WE?

  119. October 17, 2008 at 23:06

    A new world order is what seems needed most. Watching the debate it seems clear that if fresh thinking backed by clear objective analysis are needed in scearch of the new frontiers then it probably has to be Barack Obama. In democratic elections the combined voter strength wins no matter what the candidates say or are perceived. That is the strangest irony.

  120. 121 Jennifer
    October 18, 2008 at 00:05

    Re: Our new world order when Obama is elected!

    The US will sink if Obama is elected. It will consist of 10X the recession we would have with McCain in office because the solution to our economic problems does not lie in creating tons of new programs when we are not able to do so, giving free college educations to those who could get off their butts and work for them like I did, and get over the fact that you think CONSERVATIVE is a dirty word. GET OVER IT!

    Apparently some people were not watching the same debates I did because Obama clearly lied on several issues including his budget, abortion, and etc.
    I’d suggest some people re-watch it and they’ll catch what they apparently didn’t catch the first time around! Some highlights: stating that he’d cut benefits for the elderly who are a high risk of needing assistance, lying about partial birth abortion, and also saying that he’d give every young adult a free ride to college. That makes me mad-I worked my butt off for my degree. I shouldn’t have to pay for some lazy brat’s goof off free ride!

    When are people going to put experience, leadership, and what really matters before the fact that the media has peddled Obama as a saint?

  121. October 18, 2008 at 00:15

    @ Jennifer

    You say that Senator Obama “…clearly lied on several issues including his budget, abortion, and etc.”

    It makes sense though that someone as corrupt and evil as Senator Obama would stoop so low as to lie about “etc.” That really makes me mad! Why are people so blind?

  122. 123 Jennifer
    October 18, 2008 at 05:30

    @ Portlandmike

    Yes, his budget, abortion, and etc……..I could say lots of other things. Do you listen and go check or do you just listen to what he says and take it as truth because he’s not “conservative”? I mean, really, have you thought about what makes sense for our current economic situation?

    Get this:
    We are in debt right? Is this a good time to be creating programs that will make us even further in debt? It’s either we go even more into a recession as we try to do that or he is lying and won’t create any programs. It’s like going out and spending all of your money; overspending because there was a sale. You know you are in debt after that but you can’t resist so you go out on another huge shopping spree just for kicks? Shouldn’t you suck it in and make do with what you have; cut back until you are in the green again? Take what you do have, change it around, and improve upon it? Wouldn’t that make things much more efficient in addition to cutting down some of the debt thus freeing money? I mean, maybe that’s just my logic and I am WAY off but that makes pretty good sense to me.

    Of course noone wants to give big companies more of a break then they should have but without them where would we be? We will SINK if they are not protected and kept safe. If they don’t thrive we will not either. Money has to come in for money to be spent. It works both ways……we as consumers have to stimulate the economy for us to be stable but before that companies have to be stable. Again, maybe I am way off but I think this should be so clear and easy to see.

    Also for your perusal:

    Just a few for starters click on channel for more…….not sure I picked the very best ones to post.

  123. October 18, 2008 at 06:07

    @ Jennifer

    If someone said to you, “That person is a liar about etcetera.” What would you think?

    Usually when someone accuses someone of being a liar, they go ahead and tell you why they think they are a liar. But then I’ve never heard someone being accused of lying about “etcetera.”

  124. October 18, 2008 at 06:30


    Long time no wrestle with the issues,
    A couple of points re. certain exchanges in the fairly recent past. You appeared to be running to the defence of Hilary Clinton as the candidate you supported for presidential nomination first time round, when I clearly pointed out some of her past political shortcomings in the former Yugoslavia. When she lost the candidacy you then switched your allegiance to McCain & Palin. Hilary a dyed in the wool Democrat and McCain an equally dyed in the wool Republican. How can you change over to support radically different political philosophies in such a snap fashion? Of course you’re entitled to if you so wish. But I’m just curious as to why you would and why you did. I know I could never do that, you either subscribe to a certain political ideology and philosophy or you’re acting rather like a charlatan by chopping and changing. And just because Hilary is out of the running and you don’t have a particular liking for Barack Obama, the policies are the same if not very similar. Why not abstain in this election, if you truly feel that way. “Lest by your actions they betray you and therefore will be judged by all those around you.”

    I am a little perplexed as to why you didn’t wish to offer up any defence for Hilary at the time. Or did you realise that the defenceless is purely that, defenceless in the extreme as well in this instance, and a blatant LIE on her behalf, when wanting to recount her version of events to the world’s press and media at the time, contrary to what actually happened there.
    Also, for the record leading Republican supporter, John LeBoutillier, a former member of the House of Representatives has said of this evening, on a live radio broadcast from America to London, that the Bush years have been a disaster, and that the relentless and mindless ill thought out character assassinations by Palin and unwittingly by McCain on occasion upon Obama have completely backfired upon the Republicans. Plus the joke that is “Joe the Plumber”, who HASN’T PAID HIS BACK TAXES and is not REGISTERED TO VOTE IN OHIO, and being on $40,000 DOLLARS A YEAR IN REALITY would be BETTER OFF UNDER OBAMA’S TAX PLAN TO THE TUNE OF $500.00 DOLLARS than that of McCain.
    The latest rumour from inside the Republicans is that Jeb Bush will be on the next ticket to run as a prime candidate for presidential nomination in 2012. Looking firmly to the future then and not the past is their obvious motto, wouldn’t you say!

  125. 126 Jennifer
    October 18, 2008 at 11:18

    The only thing I will discuss further is what infuriates me more than anything! I think it’s a pretty simple concept:

    Obama said he wanted to “spread the wealth” around right? But who determines wealth? Why should someone like Joe the plumber, who’s worked hard to be able to buy a business be punished for succeeding? It’s like you are saying great job Joe, hitting him on the head, and running away with his money to give to someone else if he does work hard to earn more money. Why would we want to put Joe in a position where he can’t hire workers? Wouldn’t his ability to expand his business be helping our economy? Obama’s notion of “spreading wealth” is fundamentally wrong and will end up hurting EVERYONE.

    People have this notion that someone who is well off sits around all day eating bon bons doing nothing. I am sure that is not the case in most situations. Obama’s plan would stifle Joe’s dream of owning his own business and creating new jobs! I know the media has made this about Joe being a troll, yada yada yada. I don’t give a care if Joe is a guy with green hair that dances around in his yard in a tutu for fun. The facts are those I listed above and they are obviously holes in Obama’s “plans” that people are overlooking because they are too busy digging up dirt on poor Joe that will not matter one bit after election day. Stay focused on the facts; not hype.

  126. 127 Emile Barre
    October 18, 2008 at 13:53

    Obama has already won this election. Next subject please.

  127. 128 Jennifer
    October 18, 2008 at 17:25

    @ Emile

    Are you a clairvoyant? It’s not election day yet! 😀 If he does win, we can all be happy that’s he’s encouraging a life of living off the system and punishing people for actually succeeding while simultaneously ensuring that HE will control how stable our economy is. Shame on me, I think WAY too much!

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