28
Feb
08

Stories for Thursday 28 February

Good morning everyone, sorry for the unexciting headline, but in order to make the processes of the programme clearer, and to help you tell us what you want to talk about, we’ll be using this format every morning from now on.

So what’s on our radar today? Something we’ve been talking about in the office for a day or two is Turkey’s re-examination of the Hadith – a collection of sayings attributed to the Prophet Muhammad and the second most sacred text in Islam.

Here’s something Rabiya spotted yesterday: Racist university video causes outrage in South Africa. On the other hand, there’s a bit of a media storm over the Forum of Black Journalists excluding white colleagues from a briefing with new ANC president Jacob Zuma. A grave injustice to be protested or a sensible decision that’s been hijacked?

And some suggestions from you:

Greg in Orgeon:
“Should the UK be forced to answer charges that the War in Iraq was illegal? I have heard about this on the BBC. It would seem that there is some interest in it. Related to this should government spokesman be forced to respond to mothers who have lost their sons?”

Also on Iraq, from Lubna:
“The peer of Iraqi journalists Shihab Al Tamimi has gone. He was seriously injured on Friday the 23rd of Feb. when ‘THEY’ shot him in Al Waziriya district in Baghdad. And on Wednesday he died at the age of 75 years. So this is another victory for ‘THEM’. Today ‘THEY’ have succeeded in shutting up another free Iraqi voice. Mr Al Tamimi isn’t the 1st, and won’t be the last. 250 Iraqi journalists were murdered since 2003 and till now. I stand and shout outloud : ENOUGH silence ! I’d say to journalists all over the World : Your Iraqi colleagues are being murdered in Iraq. We want your reactions. We want your condemnations. I’m asking from any journalist who receives this message to write a post for my blog about the assassination of the peer of the Iraqi journalists Shihab Al Tamimi.
With my love. Yours forever, Lubna.

Steve (who will be familar to many regular readers):
“Lefties really lose it. men lose gym rights at Harvard University at certain times to accomodate Muslims. Can you imagine being told you cannot go to the gym when you want to accomodate someone else’s (a tiny minority) religious views? Really sad how far the far left will bend over. Orthodox jews don’t mix genders either and I don’t see Harvard having done this before. So you lose your rights for a tiny minority. How nice. What next?”

And from Kwabena in Ghana:
“I was listening to the declaration of independence of my country Ghana by our first president kwame nkruma, and in his speak he said and i quote “we want to show the whiteman that afterall the blackman is capable of managing his own affair” Ghana has moved on 50 years and a chunk of our budget is funded by donors who happen to be white and this is so with most of not all african states. Without food aid from the west most africans wil starve. The african union force that was in darfur was largely ineffective because african states could not fund the operation and we repeatedly called on the west for funding. Mugabe is oppresing his people and it takes britain to pile up the pressure and not the AU. Ghana actually brought in norwegians to manage the states telecom company, were there no ghanaians who could do that?
“Considering these and many examples time wil not let me mention, is the blackman capable of managing his own affairs?”


15 Responses to “Stories for Thursday 28 February”


  1. February 28, 2008 at 10:43

    I can’t believe the Video I’ve just watched about racism in South Africa is real, I had gathered my thoughts and recalled those early 1990 days.This is a real shame towards the white community in south Africa.I even can’t imagine a normal human being feeding some one on “Urine stew…”.The students in the video should be punished accordingly.The international human rights organ should intervene .Am real disappointed…by the white community in RSA.

    Regards

  2. February 28, 2008 at 10:55

    OK, slight omission from the post there – the BBC story has a link to some of the video: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7267027.stm

  3. 3 Brett
    February 28, 2008 at 12:33

    ““Should the UK be forced to answer charges that the War in Iraq was illegal? I have heard about this on the BBC. It would seem that there is some interest in it. Related to this should government spokesman be forced to respond to mothers who have lost their sons?””

    “Should the UK?!” “SHOULD THE US?!” needs to be the question!

    Steve (who will be familar to many regular readers):
    “Lefties really lose it. men lose gym rights at Harvard University at certain times to accomodate Muslims. Can you imagine being told you cannot go to the gym when you want to accomodate someone else’s (a tiny minority) religious views? Really sad how far the far left will bend over. Orthodox jews don’t mix genders either and I don’t see Harvard having done this before. So you lose your rights for a tiny minority. How nice. What next?”

    A tiny minority? It’s for all women who do not want to workout with men, not JUST Muslims. Does it benefit Muslims? Sure, but whats wrong with women-only workout time?… So Victory Lady Fitness, and every other gym which caters only towards females now needs to be under scrutiny now too? Maybe Harvard hasn’t done this for Orthodox Jews before because the Orthodox Jews never pursued it. Any men who feel discriminated against need to stop whining, put some gloves and a hat on and go for a run or something. You don’t need to be pampered in a climate controlled gym to get excercise.
    Another excuse for a majority-rule, minority-exclusion circumstance. Because minorities and their wishes don’t matter, right?

    ———-

    In any case, I’d love to hear about the legality of the war in Iraq on todays show!

    Brett ~ Richmond, Va.

  4. 4 steve
    February 28, 2008 at 12:35

    Here is your typical Harvard student opinion on the Quadrangle Recreation Center’s new policy of certain women only hours:

    http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=521900

    http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=521977

    I ask you, would we in society allow other forms of discrimination? Say if some people feel uncomfortable around other races? Should we have black only exercise hours? White only exercise hours? Asian only exercise hours? No, that would be called, and properly so, “racist.” So why should Harvard allow gender based discrimination? It is. In fact, women will have MORE rights, because not only can they exercise in that center at women only hours, but also at all other opening hours. This is wrong, and should not be tolerlated. Of course Harvard is a private institution, but it is secular in nature. I don’t see why they are basically making a majority of students pay the price for a small minority. You are either equal or you are not. Getting special rights means you aren’t equal.

    There are private gyms in the US, one in particular called “Curves”, where it is largely older, overweight women who are too insecure to go to co-ed gyms. That is due to their insecurities. They think they are being judged. Nobody cares what you look like in a gym. If anything, if you are overweight, people are thinking “good for you, you are making an effort to lose weight”. But a university should not be playing to role of making segregated gym hours. It’s just wrong and should not be tolerated because of the slippery slope it creates. And given that such concepts of discrimination for religious purposes predominately these days comes from the far left, I would like to know how Harvard would handle the situation if a male crossdresser, or transsexual decided they think they are women, and wanted to go to the gym at these assigned women only hours. That would create a dilemma. Who is the bigger darling of the far left? Gender confused people or religious minorities? Would they forbid the entry of a cross dresser at such hours?

  5. 5 steve
    February 28, 2008 at 13:44

    Brett:

    “A tiny minority? It’s for all women who do not want to workout with men, not JUST Muslims. Does it benefit Muslims? Sure, but whats wrong with women-only workout time?… So Victory Lady Fitness, and every other gym which caters only towards females now needs to be under scrutiny now too? Maybe Harvard hasn’t done this for Orthodox Jews before because the Orthodox Jews never pursued it. Any men who feel discriminated against need to stop whining, put some gloves and a hat on and go for a run or something. You don’t need to be pampered in a climate controlled gym to get excercise.
    Another excuse for a majority-rule, minority-exclusion circumstance. Because minorities and their wishes don’t matter, right?”

    You are wrong on many levels. Lets take this to the next step. You say it’s not just muslim women uncomfortable working out around men. Fine. So Say if whites and blacks are uncomfortable working out around each other? Should we have one race only workout times? What’s the difference? There is no difference. You cannot justify gender discrimination without justifying racial discrimination if the underlying reason for the segregation is being “uncomfortable”. After all, segregation in the US south was because whites felt uncomfortable around blacks. Do we want to go down this path again? Think about it. I cannot believe you are suggesting that the majority should have to lose out because of a minority. The minority still can go to the gym! Nobody is stopping them but themselves! So should they stop offering Pork at harvard because a minority of students don’t eat pork?

    You asked what’s wrong with women only workout time? I ask you, what’s wrong with black only workout time or white only workout time?

  6. 6 steve
    February 28, 2008 at 13:50

    Brett: Given that males are being discriminated against, and you think that’s fine, should they receive partial refunds for their recreational center fees since they cannot use the gym as freely as women can given male hours are restricted at that one recreation center? Or they should pay the full fee, but not have full access?

    “Any men who feel discriminated against need to stop whining, put some gloves and a hat on and go for a run or something. You don’t need to be pampered in a climate controlled gym to get excercise.”

    But women need to be pampered in a climate controlled gym to get exercise? Do you notice your double standard here? Isn’t that a little patronizing? I would be insulted if I were female.

  7. 7 carlos King
    February 28, 2008 at 14:09

    Hi Ros,

    I am again for the third time pleading with you and the BBC to launch a series on the negative effects of racism on the white-skin people. It is generally accepted that slavery devastated black skin people economically, socially, educationally, psychologically but what about white-skin people?

    Are you telling me that a group who for centuries oppressed another merely because of the veneer of their skin have not been mentally affected negatively? What explains the actions of the people who flung racist chanting at Lews Hamilton, those who regularly abuse black football players and most recently the students in South Africa who forced blacks to eat contaminated food?
    Is this evidence of good or bad mental heath?

    By refusing to discuss the subject of the dehumanising effect of racism on white people won’t solve the problem of racism in the world. It will only make the surgery more acute when the time comes when their is no option but to operate.

    I hope this third request won’t be ignored like the previous too. Please share my article- Debunking white skin is superior propaganda with your readers.

    Thank you.

    Carlos

  8. 8 John in Salem
    February 28, 2008 at 14:12

    Gee, Steve, that sounds pretty bad – and especially since the Harvard gym is only open 113 hours a week. What a sacrifice!

  9. 9 Brett
    February 28, 2008 at 14:21

    “they think they are women”

    The key to that statement is right there, they know they are not women… They may act like women, they may wish they were women, they may be glad they are male and just like to dress up (plenty in my city do so), this does not mean that they believe they are women. This is confirmed everytime they take a look down. I have known plenty of people who crossdress and their mindset ranged from it was a fun thing to do, to pretend; All the way to they feel they were born a female or male in the other genders body. All of them knew what their physical gender actually was, none of them were deluded enough not to.

    But now, of course the argument is: “Well what if there was a crossdresser who got an operation and attended Harvard and just so happened to want to workout with only women, though not born a female, they may qualify as one after all of their operations, and what if they take offense to not being able to do so, even though genetically they are not a woman, but they look like one?
    A likely scenerio, right?

    Well what if green little aliens came down from space and attended Harvard and were not able to workout with the women? THAT WOULD BE DISCRIMINATING TOO!!!!

    The clear-cut solution to appease both sides would be to build a separate gym which had all sorts of crazy hours for all sorts of ‘minority’ groups. But then you’d find fault in that the money was not spent elsewhere. Its a no-win situation. Certain genders/religions don’t feel comfortable in certain environments, and certain majorites cry bloody murder because they cannot use the gym for a few hours. Christ, you could even set the women only hours from 3am-5am and someone would cry that if they WANTED to use the gym then, they wouldn’t be able to.
    Just playing devils advocate; You make alot of good points, and they are well taken.

    In reality, they should just scrap the plans and make it free gym for all at any time. Thats the right thing to do of course if absolute equality is to be kept in mind. Make anyone who doesn’t like it go run in the cold; afterall it is their problem that they don’t want to workout with everyone else.
    I know I would be pissed if I had a gap between classes or between work and classes and it just so happened to fall during the ‘no men in the gym’ hours.

    I think attributing this to ‘the far left’ and simply as a result of religion (and not gender) was an interesting way to place it into your neverending BBC quest against the lefties / communists / socialists / stalinists / narcissists.

    Either way, both side has points and flaws. Being that I do not attend Harvard, nor go to a gym (just walk / run), I do not really care. But it will be interesting to see what happens.

    Brett ~ Richmond, Va.

  10. 10 steve
    February 28, 2008 at 15:38

    John: Does that make it any less discriminatory? Perhaps males have classes during other hours? Everyone has their own schedule, say if those were the best times for you and you were told you cannot enter because you were born with male genitalia? It’s funny how people on here will justify discrimination. Even if it were 5 minutes a week, it’s still wrong. This is 21st century America, not the 1950s south, nor 8th century Saudi Arabia. We don’t segregate.

  11. 11 Will Rhodes
    February 28, 2008 at 16:39

    I never have understood why it’s “OK” to discriminate against men but no one else. Baffles me no end.

    Britain and the US should do some serious explaining as to why they went into Iraq – it really isn’t that hard. The war was and still is illegal – 90% of the populations of both countries know it and want those troops home. How does Iraq get fixed after all this – diplomacy and addressing those who are involved, and firstly by getting them all to sit around a table and bash out a deal to stop the bloodshed – and that will not be the easy part.

    Finally; racism should not be accepted anywhere and at any time – ever!

  12. 12 steve
    February 28, 2008 at 18:03

    Will Rhodes: I’m even starting to hear conservative talk shows admit that George Bush can lie, but only in certain contexts. Example, Today, Bush said the US doesn’t have the technology to build a border fence with Mexico. This is the same nation that sent a man to the moon, but we cannot build a fence? So of course he’s lying. But that’s what politicians do. Because we elect sociopaths to office.

    I don’t know why it’s okay to discriminate against men, but the same people who do that are the same people who think only whites can be racist too.

  13. 13 Will Rhodes
    February 28, 2008 at 18:39

    Steve:

    What I find is that governments across the world have tried, and failed miserably, is to put human beings in pigeon holes. Human beings are very complex things, and yet very simple.

    Complex because each and every one of us are different. Simple because we need very few things. Is that pigeon-holing, maybe? – but what you find is that governments will datafy a certain group and expect that group to act in a way that quantifies the data.

    If you want a longer explanation I will be blogging about this soon. By all means feel free to drop by on my blog:

    willrhodes1961.wordpress.com

  14. 14 steve
    February 29, 2008 at 01:24

    Will. I took a look at your blog and I saw the story about the OLF in Quebec and the Mckibbins Pub, my favorite bar in Montreal…. That story is wrong on so many levels. I followed it up and they apprenently settled it, but wow. Can you imagine something like that happening in the uS, where the government says you cannot have spanish language signs up??? These are antique guinness advertisements used for decoration! The funny thing is how protectionist french speakers are over their language, but given that 40% of english vocabulary is French, and we don’t complain, why do they? Look at that word I used earlier, “advertisement” I think if i put an extra “s” in it it would be the exact french spelling because it’s a french word, and do we throw hissy fits! Either way, I think a rival probably filed that complaint. At least political correctness isn’t alive in Quebec.

  15. 15 John in Germany
    February 29, 2008 at 11:45

    Hi Ros.

    Where do we go from here? once again a religious writing is being interpreted to suit politics. No wonder no one knows- where were gong. Everyone can interpret their religious writings as they wish. Just grab a few learned, tell them what you want and away we go. And everyone lower down has to believe, agree, do, and not say anything against or you might be punished according to the religion, this could result in death, or the promise of not going to heaven,,Ect.
    Once again a change at the top, results in the demise of them down there. Ask the people, the Swiss have been doing it for centuries, and it works perfectly. Its time to stop those that think they have the right to dictate to everyone without a care. May i diverse? in Hessen after the election we have a fifty-fifty result. Now a fight is on for a coalition, but 50% of the people will not be correctly represented. In this situation referendum’s should be the daily bread.

    Greetings
    John in Germany


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