“All I want is the same chance to enjoy my prom night like any other student. But my school would rather hurt all the students than treat everyone fairly”. I know a lot of you have seen the story about Constance McMillen. She’s 19 and has been stopped from going to her school prom in Mississippi, USA. The reason is that she wants to go with her girlfriend, something her school was not prepared to allow. As you can see, she’s got plenty of supporters on Facebook. Even Ellen DeGeneres has got involved. Now while the specifics of the case are being played out in the courts, a broader discussion has started about the right and wrongs of gay teenagers expressing their feelings at school.
Now just to bring you up to date with this story, the latest is the prom is off and a court has now ruled the ban violates Constance’s constitutional rights.
This all came after she challenged the school’s ban on same-sex prom dates.
In case you’re wondering, the school defended cancelling the whole thing on the grounds that the whole row had become a “distraction to the learning process”.
And this isn’t the first time the issues have come up. Have a look at this article about a row in Alabama.
So should gay teenagers be able to express their sexuality freely at school? Wherever you live, we’d like to hear from you.
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It depends on how you define expressing sexuality. I think you should be able to express your sexual orientation without harrassment, but school isn’t really a place where kids should be having sex, or any variant of it. A lot of girls that aren’t gay dance with each other at school dances and nobody says a word, so what would be the difference? I find the booty/bump and grind dancing they do at school dances more shocking than homosexuality, but maybe I’m just getting old. I find the school’s strategy very interesting, by cancelling the dance, they can say that was the most impartial choice, and they can make Ms. McMillen the villain at the same time.
Are there really any secrets at school? With facebook and twitter, etc., most students know a lot of detail about each other, sexual and otherwise, without ever saying a word at school.
She has every right to bring a female date to the prom. Most of the students at her school probably already know that she is gay. Would it be better that she “pretend” for one night and show up with a male date?
Being gay is not against the law in the United States…so she has every right to be herself at school.
School administrators would do better to crack down on the number of 17 year old girls who bring a 25 year old MAN (or older) to the prom. Now that is disturbing and happens far too often.
of course they should be allowed to. are teenagers not people too? is it alright to discriminate against teens because they are not of legal age to vote or fight? does that mean that they are not actual people to be provided with civil liberties and rights? Its BS in my opinion and we need to grow up. while i am not homosexual i am intelligent enough to know that they exist as people just like myself and anyone else – its not a disease its nature. get over it and allow them to be normal in society; which is the only thing that makes them any different
I am deeply involved in the worldwide fight for equality for the LGBT community, and a senior administrator for 2 very large international gay rights groups. I first would like to express that the very phrasing of this question is beyond offensive. If a boy is dating a girl, that is an expression of sexual orientation, so by this question, should they be “allowed” to date, or to talk about it? The answer: YES! She is not asking for legal recognition of marriage here,. but she is asking for the exact same treatment that her heterosexual classmates get. She is not asking to have sexual relations in front of her classmates, but to simply be allowed to act in the same manner of her classmates. My group has many many teenagers, many of whom are suicidal because of this exact type of treatment. I had a teen that I have been personally counseling for 6 months kill himself about a month ago because of this type of attitude, and this type of question.
If you wish to go directly to one of two gay rights groups who deal directly with this issue daily, please see:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=102522415430&ref=ts
and
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=101791263193605&ref=ts
The school is really reaching here. They’re worried about a distraction being caused, but they’re canceling the whole event rather than just denying the date a ticket? (If they only canceled the prom after the court ruling, then they need to suck it up and let her come.)
This has an easy workaround, though. She should have a dateless male friend of hers ask her date to the prom as his. Problem solved.
No and neither should straight students.
I’m in favor of mandatory uniforms at all public schools, which have consistently improved overall grade averages and reduced behavior problems wherever they have been used.
I’m with John. We should be asking the similar question should straight students be allowed to express their sexuality at school. Why does any student need to express their sexuality at school. Shouldn’t they be concentrating on, oh say, school. From what I hear from my co-workers even 6th grade dances now look like clothed orgies.
Schools (kindergarten, primary, secondary and territiary) are institutions for academic and some physical learning. They are not instituions for the promotoin of sexuality. Schools should be asexual as in apolotical. Sexuality and sexual orientation should be left up to the home and the church.
If what I am suggesting was carried out a graduate could take along any gender guest including his or her mother or grandmother. The problem with our modern society is that we are too highly sexualized- sex to sell care, cigars, alcohol, shoes, underwear, even food, etc. Modern man has sown to the wind and we are reaping the world wind! Hold unto your seats because even more bizarre confusion is on the way.
Carbo,
Kingston-Jamaica
The school’s ill-considered ban is the only thing causing a “distraction from the learning process”.
According to the story linked, Constance McMillen had “come out” some years ago so her attendance wouldn’t have surprised or shocked anyone in her school–and certainly wouldn’t have received this sort of global publicity.
Silly move, conservative powers that be!
I don’t think ANY teenagers should be expresing their sexuality at school.
Regardless, they will.
If the definition of “expressing one’s sexuality” is so broad as to include simply having a boyfriend or girlfriend, I wouldn’t see the sense in restricting it, even if we could.
thats a bit naive steve .. there teenagers what do u expect .. there becoming adults
No,teenagers should first know the reason as to why they are in high school,their priorities should be studies,thereafter once they go to college they can indulge in all those things they want to without bounds.
YES, all children should be allowed to feel free to express themselves.That does not mean dress improperly or be disruptive. You learn as early as possible that it takes everyone in society to work together and move forward. Repression is wrong,weither it be sexual,religious,political or economic.
Rob z in florida.
Never knew dis sexuality has gotten to 18 year-olds. May God help us.
Hi Ros. I am a regular listener of WHYS and every time the topic of ‘GAY RIGHTS’ comes up, it feels disgusting. On this case, no teenager or adult should express their so called feelings in the public, i believe this is sickness. It is a no brainer. My question to the girl mentioned any every other gay is: would they be on this earth if there Dad or Mum was gay?! Whether Gay issues deserve the air time is something i would like the WHYS team to consider.
Hi Ahmed – My ex-husband is gay and still struggling to come to terms with what you call “his illness.” I wish he had been more honest with himself and me, he would have been a happier man, but in any case, we had two beautiful children together and are the best of friends. My daughter is an adult and understands about her father’s situation and loves him very much. So where would my daughter be if her father was gay? Well she is right here, making the world a better place, and the sunshine of my family’s life. Where would my son be? He is here in the world, making both me and his father proud. Do gay issues deserve airtime? At least as much as your “disgusting” point of view of them.
Yes.
Yes, of course!
uhhhhhh, yes.
I wonder if schools in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia or Iran allow same sex couples to attend dances. Oh wait, sometihng tells me they wouldn’t have dances period, and then same sex couples would probably be executed. But let’s focus on how horrible Alabama is!
@Steve, you completely miss the point! Alabama is NOT Iran, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, but the USA and such a comparison is apples to cars frankly. In the United States of America, which I am not sure you are familiar with, high school children have boyfriends and girlfriends, it is par for the course. In the cited countries as well as many others, dating of any sort is not allowed, and yes they are being killed over there. A member of my international gay rights organization in Iran has disappeared, as of four weeks ago, because her sexuality was found out, and yes we fear the worst for her. However, if America is the beacon of freedom that is claims to be, then tell me exactly, sir, how the school was right, and the girl was doing anything other than trying to be treated in the exact same manner as her classmates? I am sure that you will have no logical reply as there isn’t one!
May be we’re focusing on the US because no one at all is claiming that Saudi Arabia or Pakistan is a country where all sorts individual freedoms are guaranteed… On the other hand the US is a country where all individual freedoms are guaranteed, that’s our perception of it, and that’s why those kinds of stories are interesting… With my love… Yours sincerely, Lubna N in Baghdad
Salam Lubna! You would be correct, the world presumption is that the USA is where personal freedoms are guaranteed, yet LGBT (gays) are still not given even half of the rights and protections as heterosexuals. We are maligned by national politicians, hunted, beaten and killed by hate filled individuals, and yet America pretends to be accepting. We are not yet the beacon of democracy that most Americans pretend to be.
It’s not like they’re having sex in the classroom, unlike the heterosexual teenage couple did in a high school in Atlanta.
What a lot of fuss about nothing….Proms have always been about nuanced and not so nuanced sexuality, so please stop harping on about how the school environment should sexually neutral. Teens are teens and more and more teens are very exposed to sexuality. Second, i dont think this couple were planning on getting it on in the corner. I suspect, given their approach to the whole situation, that they would be the best advertisement for same sex relationships.
Get over your self school board
Is the school the place for anyone to express sexuality?
Sometimes it seems the social discussion is merely framed to stimulate controversy where there should be none. Schools are for learning, and lets keep them that way.
No they should not, sextuality has no place in schools, the importance in attending school is for learning, not a place for personal sextual indulgences.
Yes! Absolutely yes.
The student – ?
must have know what her school is like and is partially to blame for the ruckus this has caused… maybe she want’s the attention? (especially if it’s on Facebook and Twitter ??)
The school – ?
sounds a bit childish, insecure and needs to grow up a bit and get with the 21st Centuary.. it can’t win on a human rights issue like this and the harder it comes down will only make itself look foolish in the end.
Cabe – The student “wants attention”? Really? So, wanting to have the same thing that her classmates have is “wanting attention”? So, when Rosa Parks sat in the front of the bus I suppose that she, too, just “wanted attention” because she knew how the people would react. Seriously, this is 2010, not 1910, please try to remember that!
Children generally don’t have any control over their sexuality or place of school attendance.
No way
People should be allowed to espress their religious, sexual, familiar orientation or background where they want and when they want.
But my perplex here is about the word gay.
In Africa some politicians and university students have become gay because of spiritual or money interest.
In europe people are today gay, tomorrow they are not. They fall in love today with a man tomorrow with a woman. So why declare a sex today when from your look people can determine who your are, or when you’ll change tomorrow!
Yes, Teens should be able to express themselves.
I don’t understand what problem the school has with it ? Straight kids also go there with their boyfriend /girlfriend. Right soo,,,,,,,,,what is the problem again ?
I think today’s question as a no-brainier.
Why? Well, for me it’s like asking if ugly people has the right to live? -and I’m not gay, but I’m not Adonis-.
So, I don’t know why should we discriminate them for being homosexuals, more over, when we laugh at Iranian President when he says there’s no gays in Iran…
I’m with Steve (see above). NO one should be “expressing affection and displaying their sexuality” at school. I’m old fashioned I guess, but it is better for all concerned if affectionate displays are saved for outside the schools AND the workplaces. That means for gay, straight, teens, adults and seniors! Do like everyone else used to do: go to the parking lot and climb in a car!
Absolutely. There shouldn’t be a problem with it.
Well, to say that sexuality should not be expressed AT ALL in schools is just the same as saying that personality should not be expressed. Sexuality is a component of personality; to suppress this in all students would be a suppression of the whole student body.
Now, on the issue of letting her take her date to prom, the obvious answer is yes. 20 or 30 years from now, people will look back at all of this ridiculousness in disbelief, much in the same manner we now perceive the racism of the past to be absurd. That they canceled the prom really pisses me off.
Students at school should be encouraged to develop healthy friendships. Their sexual orientation should not come into the picture until they are fully mature and have left college. In this way they are able to take adult decisions based on their true feelings and are then able to cope with them. School and college are excellent training grounds where students realise their full potential and orientation. Adolescence is such a critical period when the boy or girl develops from a child into an adult. Adolescence is the budding stage where the true characteristics should be allowed to blossom whether straight or gay!
Why should homosexual teens be relegated to an asexual status while the heterosexual teens are allowed to be, well, teens? What good comes out of this discriminatory double standard?
In terms of in the same way as a heterosexual teenager? Of course you should.
It seems depsite politcal correctness going mad most of the time in schools certain things have slipped through the net. Homophobia is considered okay by staff or students.
As worrying is the fact school assemblies are still required BY LAW to have a christian theme.
While this law is ignored in most secondaries in primary schools you will still hear the children singing things like the following:-
‘thank god for making me me’
sickening indoctrination and abuse of children and its government sanctioned too.
Affectionate displays should never be a problem as long as it’s appropriate for a persons surroundings. If someone has a problem with love and it’s expression, that person needs to stay home or grow up and join the modern world.
Constance McMillen is 19, above the age of consent, and she should be treated like any other adult.
As for people under the age of consent, they should be treated the same with regards to religion, race, sexual orientation–full stop,
To Mikehowardwsfi: THANK YOU! Consciousness and fierce love for the rights of the young shine through your words.
The question is loaded and unfair to the vulnerable gay teen who might read it. Phrased as “Should gay teens have the same social rights as straight teens in school?” it still leaves the idea that there might be something wrong with a child’s natural sexual orientation, but it is more to the point.
The US gay rights movement is still young in the USA. Stonewall was in 1969. Before that, my brother was a gay teen in the closet. I am so lucky to have been born in a time and place where social change was possible and my brother could live as an openly gay man. He gave me the strength to get up and change law for pedophile victims, which could only have happened if I came out of the closet.
The school is backward, ignorant and offensive. Constance is a new hero in the gay rights struggle. Go girl!
I say let them be a couple as any other couple on the Prom dance floor. Last time I checked we still had an intact Constitution in this country.
I don’t even feel that any teenagers should be expressing their sexuality period. Not the place for it, whether you are straight, gay or from Mars.
I see enough uniformed (school aged) teenagers mauling each other at transport stops and train stations to feel that they should put as much energy into educating themselves than proving something.
If this girl feels she needs to make a stand on such an issue than school is not the place for it, school should not be the place for this type of social activism.
As Patti has already said, school, at least during lesson time, should not be the place for anyone expressing their sexuality but sexual orientation is quite another thing and since even the most redneck states in the US haven’t succeeded in banning homosexuality, there should be no problem.
That ghastly invention and exercise in social exclusion the school prom, which I hear to my horror has invaded the UK these days, is a social, and presumably a “sexual” occasion so the “distraction to learning” argument is completely irrelevant in this context, it’s just plain old-fashioned prejudice.
The word teenagers is also rather misleading, originally it was use for people between the ages of 13 and 19, but now is more normally used of under 16s. The people in this case are 18/19 years old and legally adults, so it is none of the school’s business what they do with their sex lives, and if, as in most of Europe the age of consent is actually 16, even less reason for the school to impose its own diktats.
Personal freedom is guaranteed only to a certain extent. The US is largely a pretty conservative society compared to Europe. That is why we still have things like the don’t ask don’t tell policy, proposition 8 and so on. May be schools should just concentrate on imparting education and ban these proms altogether and let the couples straight or gay to express their sexuality elsewhere.
The bigger question we need to ask is “Isnt it a child’s right to assert his/her sexuality”? why are we so disturbed by the whole idea of children expressing their sexuality. At least it makes them responsible and not become complexed individuals. Right to sexual identity is inherent and dogmas and social ascriptions have no authority to take that away!
remember children grow up and make the society. Lets make them responsible individuals and help them realise their rights
If you allow for expression of sexuality at all in schools, then it’s quite discriminatory to pick and choose which sexuality is allowed to be expressed (as long as it’s legal).
Whether any expression of sexuality should be allowed in a school is a different matter.
To all those people insisting that school is a place for learning.
What does “learning” mean to you? Are just talking about blindly ingesting facts, names, dates, rules and formulae etc., ready to regurgitate them at exams which require no critical thinking skills, only a good memory? Unfortunately the situation here in Italy.
To me, learning at home, at school and in wider social circles should include learning about life, human nature in all its variations, and learning how to live happily, successfully and responsibly in whichever communities you belong to.
Once schools open up to extra-curricula activities, be they sports teams, drama groups, orchestras, chess clubs etc. then extend these to purely social events they can equally be a learning experience in coping with diversity, be it sexual orientation, religion, politics or taste in music.
Any school that considers it provides “education in the round” is failing in its duty to teach that most vital of lessons in tolerance: “it takes all sorts”.
She should have been able to bring her date. I think it’s frickin’ stupid that in the year 2010 two girls can’t go to prom together. I know at my prom there were gay couples and it didn’t disrupt things at all. I even went to a small high school in the south just like Constance.
If a straight couple can show signs of affection towards each other at school so should gay couples.
Ditto. In my prom, there was at least seven gay couples. The biggest ‘incident’ was during some speeches, one of the gay guys made a somewhat tasteless gay joke…. whoop-de-doo people! Why are we still in the grips of fear? Are you afraid they might (stereotypically) decorate your house? Perhaps you’re afraid they’ll give one of your kids (stereotypically) aids? Can’t you see that all these fears are stereotypical?!
Yes, gay students should be allowed to express their sexuality at school or anywhere else in the world. Heterosexual students have the right to express their sexuality at school. There should be equality. Also, by not allowing the gays the same rights as the heterosexuals, we are perpetuating the hate that causes the crimes against gay people. It’s 2010 and past time for us to EVOLVE as a “Human Race”.
Schools aren’t about having proms, they are about learning. Prom is irrelevant. The point of school is learning stuff for a job or college. I support the young woman dating whom she wishes, but school is school.
its not school its the prom ..
its a celebration of the end of school ..
she is not ditching school to go to some random dance ..
let them be its 2010 ..
the prom is not irrelevant ..
obviously you missed yours
There is no reason why a gay couple cannot attend prom. There is no requirement that two people that arrive together should be different sexs. So often girls go together as not dates.
I find it quite sad that we are forcing children to not express themselves when then the visuals on heterosexuality are quite sad these days. As with gay marriage, people think marriage is sacred. Try cutting on the tv and catch “Who wants to marry a millonare” Nothing sacred about that.
Its just plain homophobia. Plain and simple. There is no excuse.
BAd question. Sounds like “Should they have sex in public?” They just wanted to go to the prom together, not have sex on the dance floor. Of course high school is ALL about awakening emotions and sexuality. To be shunned is the worst thing that can happen to a teen.When a shunning is started by school administrators, it is doubly harmful.
Perhaps you can give us statistics on gay teen suicide. Many of these tragic deaths are specifically because of situations like this prom. Gladly, this young woman has the strength of will and character not to have folded under the pressures of the school and its very wrong decision.
Oh! I think its now becoming troublesome living in America even for most Americans. Everything has to be bent down – school and politics in order to accommodate the whims of egocentrics. This girl is demanding that the prom should go under her terms and it has to be that way – Is that clear to everyone? – And it has to be dictated to every Dick and Harry about those terms – hers! She has borrowed heavily from that attitude of dominating the barbarians can’t you see?
Its a bit obnoxious when a country is subjected to millions of private minimalist rights.
A college too is a registered entity with its own rights and rules. America is arguing with itself too much within one single national mind. Somebody should define where to stop – ironically an increasing number of Americans don’t want to be told anything.
The logical stopping point is when the actions of other have no negative effect on those outside of their actions. Since going to the prom together as a gay couple cannot negatively effect on anyone else but themselves, anyone who is trying to stop it cannot claim any injury in fact. So I say lets fight the actions of others that actually harm other people, this energy is best spent elsewhere, on something worthy of a fight.
Gay kids in school already get harrassed and are under pressures…but no where near what adult gay people have to deal with in other “grown up” situations.
the fact is…the adults who work in the schools are of course under pressure from parents and the public to make sure the kids under their charge are being taken care of the same way the parents would…but kids themselves will do what kids want…if a kid still in school has embraced and accepted their own sexuality they should be supported…cancelling a prom ..what will that solve?
kids arent as homophobic as parents may think.. if a str8 kids’ parents have an issue with gay kids in school..it’s their issue…why should the school “give-in” to the older generations homophobia.
Although I disagree with an abstinence-only approach on a personal level, I do respect it as long as all people, of all sexual orientations, are treated equally. Constance and her girlfriend were treated very unfairly. There is a lot of homophobia in high schools, but that will not change as long as gay students are forced to hide who they are.
I am a 30 year old lesbian, who came out at age 15. I had a girlfriend in high school that I went to prom with. We each went with male friends who agreed to go with us so that we could be together at prom. We didn’t get to have our pictures taken as a couple, dance with each other, or even hold hands where someone could see us. I spent much of that night longing to be able to be close and share that night with her as her girlfriend, but we couldn’t.
Today my partner and I have children and live in a very welcoming city to queer culture. I feel lucky now, but during my coming of age years, life was a constant negotiation.
Should an African-American woman be allowed to bring a Caucasian-American date to the prom? Yes. Should a girl be allowed to bring another girl to prom, whether or not they are romantically involved? Yes. End of argument.
I went to public high school in the 1980s (note: in the US, “public” school means the free, government-funded schools available to all), in the state of Oregon. No one kicked two of my female friends out of the Senior Prom when they showed up together, one in a tuxedo, neither of them lesbians incidentally.
But an openly gay friend was routinely beaten up by the various conservative social factions at school, such as macho jocks and tobacco chew-spitting cowboys. Friends visiting our school from a less conservative high school were called “fags” because they wore fashionable rather than countrified clothes; they were beaten up. A mob of kids took a gigantic garbage can full of school lunch leftovers, including food, and dumped it over one very nice visitor, smothering him beneath the can. Our school administration did nothing about the perpetrators of these incidents.
Closeted gay and lesbian friends grew up believing adult authorities from their parents to school officials to religious leaders — they internalized the message that they, just because they happened to end up gay through no actions of their own, were evil, bad, degraded, immoral, and inferior people—just like racial minorities have been made to feel. The long-term psychological effects can be extreme and heartbreaking. Any compassionate, halfway decent person who has observed this level of pain, bewilderment, and self loathing in gay people should recognize that it is unnecessary and cruel.
If the school is concerned about a “distraction from the learning process”, they should cancel the football program. Yes, it keeps some kids in school who would otherwise not be there, but how many of these “students” are allowed to “graduate” because of their athletic prowess regardless of their ability to read and perform simple mathematical computations. Prom is also a distraction every year, and perhaps more so in this situation, but not to the point that ill-prepared students are allowed to pass so they can help the team make it to state next year.
The actions of the gay teenagers have not tangible effect on anyone else, therefore no one else should have any say as to what they do.
I love what your caller Margaret just said, that people are different and some people “belong to eachother”…that being said, what business is it of anyone else’s who we choose to fall in love with (as long as it’s consensual).
Anyone who wants to supress homosexuality needs wake up; you’re on the wrong side of history. The future of this civilization includes open, married homosexuals, in all parts of society. You’re standing in the way of equality and you will be forgotten.
Well, I don´t see why she has been stopped from going to her school. Does the school has that right?
I was an openly gay teen in high school in the 80’s, regularly beaten up and the teachers looked the other way. Literally, some even watched. This type of thing, not only denying a gay prom date, but saying that the person looking to be treated the same as their classmates is just looking for attention, making in this case the young lady, the “bad one” is exactly what leads to so much suicide. We (gays) are far more likely to commit suicide than any other teen. I battle this every day with many teens that I counsel.
Appropriate? The only thing IN-appropriate about this topic is the glaring inequality in our soceity.
Wait, who believes that teens are confused about their sexuality? I know that when I hit that magical age I was pretty certain who I was interested in. 😉
The only confusion I see happening is when personal feelings conflict with the views of society.
I went to an all male high school in the 90’s where being called a “fag” was the ultimate insult. From what I hear that is still the case in high schools.
I’m not gay but it was beaten into my head that even showing any gender discrepancy would be punished.
to the people who are saying school isn’t a place to express sexuality, that is silly. Teenagers are extremely sexual beings as are all humans. As it is now there is just a serious heterosexist bias in how sexuality is allowed to be expressed – tacitly or not.
Isn’t the problem that the biggoted slant of ‘gay’ was put on the question?
Granted the follow on problem is that instead of letting teenagers learn not everyone is the same and that there are everyday opportunites to practice christian love and tolerance we put them in a bubble.
Kudos to the young lady from NJ for sticking to your beliefs! and not judging others, thank you for being loving and Christ-like!
It seems to me that the “Prom” is a part of the schools education about teaching teenagers how to get along with people socially.
And just as heterosexual kids ought to learn how to appropriately dance and talk and behave in a public celebration, a “Promenade”, all the other kids ought to learn the same.
I think that gay kids rights ought to be supported the same as any others.
I think that it is ridiculous to say that kids should not be expressing their sexuality in high school. While it would, of course, be best, it’s impractical to think that way due to the sheer volume of hormones rushing through their bodies!!! I think that gay students should be able to express themselves just the same as straight ones. If we stop making it such a taboo, eventually it WILL become more and more accepted. I’m just sorry for all the gay teens that will have to experience the harassment and discrimination in the interim.
I’m in favor of proms being hosted privately. There is a tradition and expectation in America of prom night being a night of underage drinking, drug use, and irresponsible sexual activity. The responsible thing would have been for schools to give up hosting proms a long time ago.
It might save our school districts some money, which most of them desperately need right now.
You do understand that the main reason people host private proms is so that they can segregate the proms based on race, right?
I understand the merits of your point about having schools focus on school, and that’s a fine point, but I think you idea would have consequences that you didn’t intend.
Why is abstinence such a part of this conversation? I would like Taylor to answer why abstinence, whether her own, or others, is relevant to this topic. Sexuality is not the physical act of sex.
I think that you may be missing a good point. This is a cultural issue. I lived in Mississippi for 8 years and attended high school and prom. I can tell you from personal experience that the culture in Mississippi is extremely conservative, racist, and quite backwards. Homosexuality was not even acknowledged at our school and discrimination according to sex or race was rampant.
Gay teenagers today are gay adults in the future. Gay relationships start with sexual maturity which starts in adolescence. If gay relationship is accepted in a society, why should there be a limit on it in relation to the age of sexual consent?
Societies needn’t be hypocritical about facts. Beside, if teachers in a school are allowed to be openly gays, the same should apply to their students. What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander, unless it is dictated that gay sex conduct should be secret and an outward of being straight should be displayed for convenience.
In 80’s Los Angeles, the gay teen suicide rate was so bad that a special gay high school continuation program was set up. Group discussions were available on many topics. I was one of the community members who worked through the Triangle Project to get some of the kids after school jobs in safe, gay-friendly environments. Between AIDS killing many of their elders and homophobic behaviors all around them. They were so vulnerable under their black eye liner and purple hair.
There’s a huge difference between just taking a date of the same sex to prom or any other school social event and behaving inappropriately. Straight kids are just as capable of making out inappropriately as homosexual kids. So shutting down a prom just because a gay couple were going to attend? That’s wong. And, has anyone thought of how the poor girl will be made to feel by her classmates? Unintentionally, her actions let to them missing prom. The school administrators were clearly acting out of homophobia and have done much more harm than good.
Addie from Ft. Myers, FL
These problems are leftovers from many years, even many centuries, of Conservatives picking out minority groups to bully and demonize to keep The People divided against each other and it is time for Conservatives to grow up and act like adults and stop their obnoxious behaviors.
We have fought for womens’ rights, black peoples rights, and now it is time to fight for LBGT peoples rights, so that we bring our Founders Declaration of Independence to life; “We believe that all people are created equal”.
Let’s get real here. Sex is happening in high school and there is plenty of heterosexual PDA’s with little consequence; this is what teenagers do. If there are consequences for homosexual PDA’s than there needs to be the same consequences for heterosexual PDA’s. And both need to be enforced the same way.
This is completely ridiculous! Choose to be gay? When are we all going to go to the next quantum leap and understand that being gay is a perfectly acceptable state of being. There is an underlying homophobic mentality where people are thinking that if you are gay, you can’t help it. This is ridiculous. People need to understand that being gay regardless of it being a choice or not, is as good as any other way of being. Everyone is equal, everyone deserves to live there life with love, dignity and without judgments of others. If people actually choose to be gay that should be acceptable because being gay is perfectly fine. A new generation will change this. The older generations just need to let it all go.
The question was about whether or not gay teens should be able to take their date to the prom, not whether or not they could kiss and hold hands in the learning environment, such as the class room. I don’t condone PDA at school but come on people, it happens! And most certainly it happens at Prom! When some people have rights that others do not, we are teaching hate and intolerance and this must stop! Again, EVOLVE PEOPLE!
It’s interesting how people keep saying that “schools are for learning” and not for proms or for building relationships. Are social skills, interpersonal relationships, and respect and dignity for all peoples not the most important things a youth can learn? We should be teaching appropriate ways of expressing our sexualities and even more importantly appropriate responses to expressions. Banning and suppressing behaviors is never an appropriate response.
Being homosexual is a choice, just like being heterosexual is a choice. I do not want my kids seeing homosexual PDA and thinking that this choice is an option or acceptable. Mind you I don’t like extreme PDA from heterosexual couples either.
Let me qualify that statement a bit further. Hundreds of studies have been undertaken to prove that being homosexual is either genetic or compulsory. None of these have succeded. They have however shown that environment (ie physical resources, family, socioeconomic status) plays a factor and biology plays a factor (ie high/low testosterone or estrogen). They have also shown that Heterosexuality is also a choice.
Evan, darling, put down the Fox News channel or church sponsored farces calling themselves studies. I can and will be happy to provide you with case after case to prove that your very uneducated statement is just that. Please understand that I am not calling you uneducated, but that wherever your supposed “facts” have come from is from an agenda and has nothing to do with science, which has, indeed proven the very thing that you are asserting to be 100% false.
The school should not be making so much fuss about a gay date – that is out of question, but encouraging gay relationship by recognizing it as healthy as heterosexual one is wrong. If all people were divided into gays and straights, and the gays were minority, there wouldn’t be such problem. But in reality the most of people are bisexual, and can go either way depending on the circumstances (think prison, army, catholic institutions, and so on). So encouraging gay relations might skew the whole social/demographic situation in the society towards unhealthy (think Rome, Sparta, Florentine republic).
Once again we see that Conservatism is the politics of hate and divisiveness!
Why did she announce to the school that she was bringing a lesbian as her date?
You don’t announce who you bring to the school dance. you buy tickets and you show up. You don’t seek the approval of the school. If the school created a fuss about you showing up with someone of the same sex, THEN you complain. But it’s like she sought out this to happen.
steve, are you saying that the southern womens rights movement should not come to the prom? That rights warriors should not come to the prom?
My youngest child asked me when she got her first crush on a boy if I was disappointed that all my kids were straight. I asked her why she would ask, and she told me that it was obvious I was closer to my gay brother than my straight brother. Until all families are more like mine, gay kids will be put on the spot over equality.
I taught in the public schools for several years, here in the United States. The schools exist not just to provide a formal education, but also to teach human beings how to exist and interact with one another. To deny homosexuals–or any segment of society–to attend prom, to date, or even to merely BE THEMSELVES is to deny normal socialization. I know because I lived it. Besides having been a teacher while in my 20s, I am also a gay male, now in his 30s. I grew up in a time, in a society, and in a school system where homosexuals were denied normal socialization, as a matter of routine.
Tim in Ohio, United States
I had a teacher such as yourself. He likely put in more effort and worked harder, just because he knew his peers judged him daily. In the end, he was the best teacher because he did more than teach. He overcame boundaries, and inspired his students. All of the prejudice teachers never made any real advancement as people, while he sped past them in every aspect of human development.
Coming from Kenya, I wish I had the opportunity to even come out in high school, let alone express my sexuality. It was four years of hell. I think expression of sexuality is a beautiful thing , and schools should protect those kids that choose to do the same.
i think its fantastic that this girl will fight for her right to live her life ….you go girl!
@ Tim
The schools are designed to teach students about education, only that’s why schooling is compulsory for all kids. it’s not a place for people to brainwash kids beyond the bare basics of being law abiding citizens and learning study skills. It’s not for socializing kids, setting particular agendas, etc.. You can “be yourself” while not having whatever. I was the only Jewish kid in my school and I wasn’t denied anything, despite I was the only one of my kind, I felt different, sometimes isolated. I believe some places in the US, the public shcool systems are actually trying to segregate gay students willingly into all gay schools. So is self segregation a good thing?
Alas! teenagers now want their “gay rights” in a public school.I completely disagree with couples showing affection in public premises, whether they are homosexual or heterosexuals.well, well im just shocked with this.
People aren’t homophobic. They are feminine phobic. The only reason they won’t let her is because they are afraid the male students may come to the prom expressing their feminine side. It is the male gay which recieve the horrors of discrimination. In the 1960s when women were fighting for equal rights people fought the bill because they were afraid it would give gay people rights. No one really cares if female gay people express themselves. This is just another way to descriminate against the feminine side of society.
..heck if Constance can do it in Mississippi,why cant we do it in the caribbean?luv it
Why did the school need to know her sexual orientation? That’s a private matter. She wanted the publicity and attention as do a lot of gays. What makes them so special? I cannot agree with any form of homosexuality its just un-natural. The survival of our species depend on heterosexual unions. Any day two men or two women on their own can produce children I will accept homosexuality.
@Taylor…
Sorry, but I DO NOT want to live in a world where your dogmatic view is the order of the day.
I admire people who can comfortably express their love for each other in public and it’s really REALLY sad that you can’t even see the beauty in that. Especially since I once had similarly staunch views about abstinence and homosexuality. After happily breaking away from such nonsensical views, life is so much richer. People should not be stifled in any way from relating to each other as they feel.
This incident about the prom is embarrassing to say the least, and makes me wonder why these school authorities don’t have anything better to focus on… like whether their students are educated enough to get into college or be contributing member of society, gay or straight.
Within limits. Sexual expression has always been a mainstay of high schools’ teenage years. But teenagers should be admonished from same-sex canoodling on school property — much the same way people are forbidden the elective of sex-change surgery till they’re 21 — lest the consequences of rash teenage judgements pursue and wreck their lives well into adulthood.
There’s even one high school here in the states that has banned hugging “for being too disruptive.” Kids will do what they want on their own, but a school must maintain discipline. The gays must understand that.
–Louisviile, Kentucky, US.
@ Nora
All I’m saying is that nobody announces to the school who they bring to the prom. She wanted to create this situation, as it would have been less dramatic and newsworthy had they looked at her weirdly when showing up with a girl. But I highly doubt they would have denied them entrance once they had arrived. But since she announced it, which nobody does unless they’re trying to create a situation.. As another person said, no straight couple announces or asks the school who they are bringing. This girl did. Why?
steve:
When my school had a prom (which I did not attend because I threw an anti-prom in the old abandoned zoo in Los Angeles) there was a form that clearly demanded the identity of your date two months in advance.
sex shifts the focus from intellectual activity to carnal activity. a child who has experienced sex willingly or unwillingly, is sometimes said to have lost his/her innocence. what do we mean? it is a pity that a child grows up too fast. children are far happier, far easier to learn, and more besutiful than children who seek sensual pleasures.
It is foolish to try and control people’s nature. Why would these people subject themselves to multitudes of harassment, prejudice and anger? It is their nature, they are gay. If somebody came up to you (presumably a straight person) and said you could not hold your husband/wife’s hand because it was unbecoming, and people were afraid… do you really think you would take it? Would you just hide in the shadows? No. Absolutely not. All homosexuality has become to the vast majority of straight people is a way of controlling people. This is an outright violation of human rights, we all have the right to freely express ourselves. Lovers kiss, hold hands, and spend time together.
The world of straights (yes I’m among you) has to sit down, shut the hell up, and get over themselves. Homosexuality is not going away, it’s been with us forever. It is in nature (all mammals are believed to exhibit this somewhat unusual trait from time to time), and it is everywhere.
Wrong! I grew up in the southern USA and knew many openly gay couples in and out of school. He should not generalize an entire region, it’s very close-minded of him!
Expressing their sexuality? It seems all these young ladies wanted to do was the same as the other students – show up arm in arm and have a dance or two together. It’s a high school prom, not an orgy.
As to the comments on what happens in Saudi Arabia: the fact that massive human rights abuses occur in other lands doesn’t make smaller discriminations acceptable by some inane magic, and I refuse to accept that I am “lucky” that I’ve only had abuse screamed at me (so far…) instead of suffering physical violence. Luck has nothing to do with it. Ill-treatment is ill-treatment and it’s all wrong. The blinkered culture that encourages ALL these hateful acts and words is the same the world over, and being attacked in the name of the Christian god is no more fun than being attacked in the name of the Islamic one.
There is no reason to deny gay people rights that everyone seems natural for heterosexuals.
I for one find public display of religion far worse than public display of affection., because religion with it’s morals and double standards has been opressing and hurting people for millenia, a thing which gays never did.
The only thing I will disagree with is Gay Parades. I know there’s a surprising number of gays who oppose it, because they feel (as I) that it is slapping the issue in people’s face that doesn’t convey a positive message… Rather, it looks like a bunch of idiots who only want to party. Gay Pride is key, but the parades should change a little in my opinion.
@Michelle from Jamaica
There’s several ways two men and two women can reproduce, an obvoius one being just to have sex outside their relationships for the means of reproduction and then giving one child to the women and one to the men.
Modern science allows for pregnancy without sexual intercourse, so you would not even need to have sex.
But there’s no need for this, because there’s so many heterosexuals in the world that we have no fear of becoming extinct from a lack of children.
Being gay is not contagious, do you really think if we treated gay people just like heterosexuals everyone would turn gay?
Well I am in Africa and Being gay is a shame to a family and i dont support it at all. why be proud of immorality? Those spoiled kids should never be given a chance to put their rotten manners into public..
Gay couples should be able to do the same thing any other couples do at school.
Why are we having this conversation in 2010?
“The only thing I will disagree with is Gay Parades.”
I actually agree, Bob. People being people, they will always stereotype according to the worst behaviours they see at such events. It’s important to remember that most gay people don’t parade around the streets half naked (just as it is to remember that most college students don’t behave like those on “Girls Gone Wild”….) but some will always assume both to be true.
To be honest this opens up a topic that America and the UK as well as many other countries have failed to address.
Young adults talking about their sexuality isn’t going to harm anyone at all, in fact maybe the earlier people get accustomed to facts like ‘Some people like their friends a little more than normal’, then maybe stigmas and stupid ancient pedjudices that are pervaded by bible-bashing mongs would be washed away.
But why is a school trying to ban same-sex relationships anyway? Isn’t that going somewhat beyond loco parentis? Surely as long as the kids aren’t actually engaging in activities of that sort at school then its no biggie?
Hi WHYSers!
A school should be supportive of children’s rights and, in this case, the right to express themselves as they are. So, I can see no challenge with them going to the dance together, so long as their safety can be gauranteed. After all, the other students are allowed to do the same, just with opposite genders. If security is going to be an issue, provide security for all! Do not cancel the entire event on account of one couple.
Of course, I say all this with the full understanding that the Jamaican situation is lots different. However, I am fully cognizant that not all of us are at the same points in our levels of acceptance. Perhaps this is another American moment of leadership that the school in Alabama should not shy away from.
I must confess i have not followed this story very closely.
For me it comes down to a single question.
Is this school a private school or a public school?
If it is private then it should be up to the school and the parents who’s children attend it.
It is public then it should follow the same law’s and policy of the state and local community.
The bottom line is that a private school is chosen by parents for specific values and teaching. LIke a Catholic school, Muslim School etc.
A public school is open to all and usually your only option if living in that area and should follow local law’s.
Andrew in NY
I have nothing against homosexuality, except I don’t want to see it, hear it, or know about it. In that it is not natural, it should not be flouted openly. As to what such people wish to do in their own homes, let them do what they want by all means. Why should normal people have to endure with it, just like why should normal people have to see hopheads shooting themselves up with drugs ?
I agree with Bob’s comments about the parades being pushed down peoples throats. I don’t like Homosexual behavior at all but I do think many gays are born that way. I also think people can be changed into thinking they are gay by their envioronment – and many poor child being subject to sexual abuse when very young – plus the attitude of many people saying being gay is alright and nothing wrong with gay behavior can confuse and make teenagers experiment. I don’t think homosexual behavior is normal – but they are here to stay, and I think they should be allowed to the prom. I don’t agree with any teenager in school flaunting sexual behavior.
@Evan Davis
If homosexuality is a choice “just like being heterosexual is a choice,” try a little experiment and choose to be gay for a minute. And then you can just choose to be straight again… … … … How did that work out for you?
In my opinion, no need to express. It is more than enough to be a Gay. Thanks.
People’s sexual orientation should be respected and i see no reason why students should not be allowed to express their sexuality openly be it gay or straight. The wind of change is blowing even in Africa here which initially was so much opposed to people of diffrent sexual orientation. I have always said peoples sexual orientation should not only infring on other people’s right. If straight people can express and romanc in public and get away with it then whats the problem with gays doing the same?
Schools exist to propagate views deemed to be coorrect by the majority of society in which they exist. Since schools are set up to serve the interests of the majority members of their host societies, then the Misisipi school authorities were right to stop the female student from bringing along her girlfreind.
U.G. i concur with you. What next? persons under 18 years purchasing and consuming alcoholic beverages, initiate civil proceedings without a guardian, to make a will, and to consent to and receive medical treatment without parental consent, driving an automobile, etc. What is this world turning into.
The girl should be allowed to take her girlfriend with her to the prom, as there is no good argument against it and good arguments for it. For me this shows that authority and tradition sometimes need to be challenged. We have the same nonsense over here in the UK, about gay people, euthanasia, etc.
The words sexuality and school shouldn’t even be in the same statement. You should go to school to learn not to have sex or be sexual.
Much of this initial article centered around biblical values. A living faith must ask:
What would Jesus do? Can anyone say that a same sex relationship that has stayed together for over 30 years does not have the love of God within?
The wisdom gleaned from the law of Moses emphasizes that the stability of the relationship is important for individuals, the family and society. However, I believe that the “law” as described in the bible should not alienate same sex relationships. The important point is that there is a bond between couples which should be cherished and celebrated.
The bible is indeed challenging. It challenges the authorities who try to impose dead rules on a living society. It challenges those who say, “we are a loving couple and want to celebrate this love, not hide it away.”
I was reading a book (sorry can’t remember the book) where a nun in America was tending to a man dying of AIDS. His partner for 25 years was at his side. This nun said something like, ” We say that God is love. How can you deny that God is in this relationship!”
If marriage has been the pracice in asia at the age of 13 during colonial times , sexuality is narturally supressed in school to focus on learning. But children develop relations like gay in single sex schools either while livng in hostels and it should not be taken seriously as they are oriented towards gay and make them a lfelong gays.it is the immatuarity of teaching community to think that way.studnets will get out of it and have a luagh when the get married later in life like normal adults do.grew up. a gay at school should not be classed as life long gays. Simply ignore and give th benefit of doubt to the students.
“I have nothing against homosexuality, except I don’t want to see it, hear it, or know about it.”
Fine. I don’t want to see you, hear you or know about you, so kindly remain housebound to spare my delicate sensibilities.