She’s half of Hollywood’s most famous couple , but Angelina Jolie doesn’t believe fidelity is “absolutely essential” for a relationship.
She’s not talking about dishonesty, she says open romances can work just as well as monogamous relationships – if both partners agree to it.
Is she right ? Do we set too much store by being faithful ?
Or isn’t being loyal a fundamental part of any relationship – or why bother to have a relationship at all ?
And what defines fidelity anyway ?
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I guess the essential ingredient is both parties have to agree for open relationships to work, and I don’t mean relucantly agree, I mean truly believe that this is the way for them. Personally, it wouldn’t work for me and my husband. I have never been able to understand people who agree to open relationships, but if it works for them, who am I to say what’s what?
I’m loving this host!
Uhhmmmmm is this WHYS or TMZ?
Why are we not talking about Tiger Woods?
Re: Is fidelity overrated?
Fidelity is not overrated. However, I bet many people will say that it is. There is a lack of people who believe that way.
Everything listed on the blog link I would define as infidelity. My guess would be that if someone things that it would upset their significant other; it is cheating.
As far as I’m concerned ‘cheating’ is defined by your partner(s).
– If your partner think viewing pornography is cheating, it is. If not, it isn’t.
– If your partner thinks hiring prostitutes every now and then is cheating, it is. If not, it isn’t.
– If your partner thinks having sex with a mutual friend is cheating, it is. If not, it isn’t.
– If you partner thinks having sex with a someone only known to you is cheating, it is. If not, it isn’t.
Honesty is paramount.
I don’t particularly like telling people that their emotions are somehow ‘wrong’. If both/all partners are happy with an open relationship, good for them. If one isn’t, then they aren’t wrong for feeling that way and their feelings should be respected. Fidelity may logically be over-rated, but human romantic and sexual relationships are about logic.
..oops! That last line should read:
“Fidelity may logically be over-rated, but human romantic and sexual relationships are seldom about logic.”
I don’t think fidelity is over rated. In Africa, that is all we have.
An important comment about infidelity is about sexual diseases. My ex-husband brought diseases home to me. Even using the best precautions it is still possible to contract sexual diseases. A huge percentage of women have contracted aids from their unfaithful husbands. Please sometime have a huge discussion about this with doctors involved.
I agree – there should be a proper discussion about this in the wider media, not just on BBC world.
I think that fidelity, honesty and faithfulness in all our relationships are underrated.
Jolie and Pitt needn’t depend on somebody else’s rating to conduct their relationship.
Infidelity only occurs when there is love.
Lying is an automatic response designed to protect the self from harm.
Most deception occurs with little awareness or thought.
People overestimate how honest they are and they underestimate their use of deception.
People repeat the same lies so often; they actually begin to believe what they are saying.
This is certainly a new dimension to an old an old problem. So, did Jolly think about jealousy when she made her assertions? They say one thing leads to another. What might start as open romance as she claims, will end up as a fully fledged relationship and that means one party wins and another loses. Suppose she’s on that unfortunate side? She’d better think twice before affirming these claims. In an emotional world of love there’s nothing like agreeing on open romances.
This is very monogamists thinking, there is absolutly no reason for her to loose anthing if brad falls in love with another. There is no reason brad can’t love them both.
Salaam gang,
If fidelity is over rated, then there’s absolutely no need for marriage eh ?! Because to me marriage equals fidelity… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…
Further evidence of how society is decaying, and in a downfall. We have these “celebrities” stating things things, then people emulating them. We have so many people wanting to be famous, that they sneak into the Whitehouse, or createa hoax such as going to the media about their child being in a balloon, just to get attention..
It’s so sad when Tila Tequila is more famous than the person who invented the polio vaccine. Gee look, she’s in the news again, wants more attention, in a more outrageous way than ever.
Society is going downhill.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/21/tila.tequila.surrogate.mom/index.html
This has been happening since the beginning of time. It just so happens that now we have the internet to see it all in one place.
It is marriage and partnerships that are overrated. Man as most animals is not a monogamous creature. The basis for marriage was economical. Who will pay for the children’s upkeep etc. Besides it is cheaper and more convenient for a family to live together.
Of course fidelity is important. What is overrated is sex!
Fidelity is the corner stone of a loving relationship. A relationship that is where the love is between two people and not love as in encompassing more than 1 person. That too is love but has different augmentations and parameters. People are not a species to be labeled but to be observed as they evolve.
Marc
Brad Pitt was recently quoted as saying, “we’re in uncharted terrority in this relationship.”
Very few people can handle open relationships. One potential problem? Constantly comparing others to your partner. Could YOU handle that stress :)? I’m not sure I could.
That is the thing, though. DON’T compare your partner to others in your life. They are their own individuals, and are complete and wonderful in themselves. Any additional people in your life are also complete and wonderful unto themselves, and there are no comparisons to be made. There is no BETTER. It isn’t about REPLACING someone. It is about Augmenting and making lives richer and fuller.
Grass is always greener on the other side?
Love is an irrational thought in itself, so how could one prevent oneself from feeling this with the other person? Following on from this, who wants to be the bit on the side? Usually, people’s egos mean they want to be at the centre of the other person’s world. Imagine the carefree existence of the other person, compared to the inevitable mundane reality (bills, chores, irritating personal habits) of the partner.
I think Jolie is guilty of hypocrisy. If this was the case, why wasn’t she happy to be the bit on the side when Pitt was still with Aniston? Wasn’t her mother’s marraige broken up because of an extra-marital affair (the whole reason she rejected her father)? This ‘news story’ smells of PR to me.
I can’t agree with Angelina on her fidelity rating, which is essential between the two partners in monogamy or whatever it is.
People should be free to lead their lives with or without a partner as long that freedom doesn’t transcend the bond that should exist between them. Fidelity means fidelity and nothing else. It also complete trust and sincerity. If partners do things behind each others’ back, this means they have just a fake relationship. When it’s OK for them to be mutually or unilaterally unfaithful, this means they are just using one another to have the illusion of having a relationship that actually remains incomplete or just in the form of a casual one without any depth.
A relationship is meant for harmony and mutual self-fulfillment. If partners become promiscuous, there can be no emotional depth in what they share. As the law is still rigorous about marital infidelity and as sex is still a deadly weapon against unfaithful politicians or any other public figures or stars, it seems fidelity still has a high value in society.
People, after all, when it comes to relations aren’t animals. They can’t do all they want without reactions from their partners.
Semper Fidelis,has to be a corner stone of any relationship.It encompasses truth and honesty in word and deed.If a couple,in all truth,honesty and full agreement,want what is termed,”an open relationsip” I cannot see how that negates fidelity.They both agree,and so are not being unfaithful to each other.Infact,they are being faitful to their agreement.I could see it raising quite a few problems though.
Of course it’s up to the two people in a relationship to set the boundaries, or lack of them, as they wish. However, if the “open relationships” is agreed upon, what about the other lovers the first two have? I would think that in many cases even the first two partners may not actually be in wholehearted agreement, often one might be going along with the more enthusiastic other just to please her/him and not risk losing him/her. Add to that the fact that the other lovers/romances would also have to buy into the whole game, and accept their role as mistress/toy boy or whatever because presumably the honesty has to extend all the way.
Historically, the concept of marital fidelity was never an issue with European aristocracies, something that had nearly disastrous consequences for the Brit Royal Family very recently. And in some Mediterranean cultures (male) infidelity is still more or less taken as read, but not vice versa of course.
On the other hand I don’t think infidelity always has to spell the end of a relationship, things just aren’t that black and white in human relationships, which come in all sorts of interesting shades of grey.
david. 54 years married .both of us only relationship ! as close today as in 1955Great!!! everything depends on your love and values.
My wife and I have enjoyed it for fifty years now. We think it’s great; but I can see how people who don’t have it might think it overrated. I mean, wishing for something you can’t do or don’t have isn’t any fun.
v
I don’t think open relationships work in the long run. As “t” said in the comment above, there is much stress about them.
I think people that are in open relationships don’t like commitment. Being monogamous is not for everyone, so my opinion is that we should be true to ourselves. It does not mean that monogamous people are better than those who aren’t, the bad part is pretending being monogamous, when in reality you don’t like that.. for me that is the part that really can hurt the other.
Comitment? I look at it the oposit way. Being comited to more than one, or comited to someone who is also comited to another is much more comitment than what monogamy requires
We are not animals. A female dog does not care if her stud impregnates her sister. They don’t save for the future, they are not able to engage in complex reasoning or express complex emotions. Why should we follow their example when it comes to relationships? Putting all religious arguments aside: not only is there a jealousy comparing issue, but one of stability and commitment. The couples that I have heard of who engage in “open marriages,” usually do it because one partner desires it and the other partner complies. The compliant partner regrets it later when they are left alone and their lover has moved on. — if not physically, at least emotionally. And, how can you give yourself emotionally to a variety of ppl. This is just not about physical pleasure.
What is the topic of dicussion here? If we are talking about infidelity, then why are we dicussing Jolie’s views about swinging. Infidelity is adultery, cheating behind your partners back.
So let’s be clear about the topic first.
Maybe it is over-rated – for some – but not the vast majority, and I wouldn’t make any assumptions about overall trends in society based on surveys or on what Angelina says. The sexual revolution was 90% media hype because the fact is that jealousy is a natural emotion that you can’t intellectualize away.
And maybe I’m just being cynical, but wouldn’t Angelina IMPLYING that she MAY still be available to SOME men have some positive effect on the male ticket-buying audience?
If you can handle an open relationship, then why not? As anyone who has had “sex buddies”, you can have someone to go to the movies with, cuddle with on the couch, go to dinner or Disney land with, have sex, and if someone else comes along that you’re sexually attracted to, you can follow your natural urges honestly.
What’s the difference between that and having a few one night stands?
-Anthony, LA, CA
Fidelity, is just another thing in this country! It has about as much truth and purpose as Christ birthday, G. Washington choping down a tree, Lincoln not telling a lie, Besty Ross sewed our flag, etc. When your truth and values are based in lies. Look at us we have trouble telling a truth about the very small things. Fidelity is one of life very large things!
Fidelity is necessary in a relationship.
I can identify whit Angelina Jolie’s statement that not talking badly about someone after the relationship is important. Because I think that in today’s world Unity is the most fundamental virtue and concept for society. But I still disagree that fidelity is not a necessity for the well-being of society.
If you think of the children then it is much better that a child knows exactly who his parents and educators are even if they are fighting – even though this is not desirable rather than being confused. Consistency is of utmost importance for the development of a child.
I think that infidelity is tempting because it seems an easy way out of a failing relationship. I attribute this to today’s questioning of the traditional values. I believe that time will show that the traditional family upbringing is more successful and better for society. Infidelity might be more tempting than ever before in society but different times have different challenges. And fidelity might be one of these big challenges of today’s age.
Fidelity, we like to talk about it. 99.9% of us never put forward the tinest bit of fidelity! It takes a very special person to embrace it and live by it. To give it and not be turned from it when not getting it back!
Maybe we should be clear about the topic first.
If we are talking about people who have “open relationships” I 100% agree with Jamily5. Open relationships most often boil down to one person wanting to go outside of the relationship with the other partner agreeing to appease that person. If you think of “love” according to Sternberg’s theory of love, then there will inevitably be problems because you are talking about commitment: one of the cornerstones of relationships.
Many years ago I participated in an open relationship. I can say, at least for me, it did not work. We all tried…but emotions, jealousy, etc enters the scene, even if one tries to prevent this from happening.
As to fidelity……that depends on a lot…I have seen it keep a marriage together and seen it destroy one. In my present case it would destroy a great relationship I have had for over 22 years. OH yes, I am 74 and yes, a smiling face, a laugh and a great shape, still turn my head.
From Wikipedia: Fidelity is the quality of being faithful or loyal. Its original meaning regarded duty to a lord or a king, in a broader sense than the related concept of fealty. Both derive from the Latin word fidēlis (A III adjective), meaning “faithful or loyal”
fidelity is absolutely overrated. From personal experiance, though I love my partner with all my heart that doesn’t mean i don’t want to have sex with other women. This is because we are not designed to be monagamous. Fidelity is essentially another control mechanism. (notice the referance to being loyal to a king or lord.)
I have to say that if we as a society could accept this idea we would be better off and much more liberated.
Is it really necessary for fidelity to be “rated” at all. To some, fidelity seems the end all be all of life itself. Others could care less. Neither choice has anything to do with love, in fact, fidelity, seems more, a creation of the jealous mind, a semantical covenant which is supposed to ensure that partners will not take other lovers. Love dictates fidelity, (ie. if you truly love your partner, you will not do things to hurt them and will be forthcoming with all emotions and feelings, long before fidelity comes into play. If not, then love has nothing to do with it).
If it is real, no. If it is an act, yes.
Further proof there should be gay marriage, since heterosexuals have done an excellent job of taking any sanctity there is out of marriage. Open marriages, 50% divorce rate, infidelity rates are sky high…
She is wrong!
It may sound offensive but the likes of Ms. Jolie generally exist at a very ‘superficial’ level in life. This is OK IF society can sustain itself with peace and happiness for all concerned when ALL of society begins to live in a ‘superficial’ way.
However, if you look deeper at the emotional stresses on the two adults involved, their children etc. and also look at disturbances in finances, education of the children, time & efficiency lost in work & pleasure, question of murders of passion etc. then you realise that fidelity is important for the majority of society. It is with this deeper understanding of the psychology of humans, the factors affecting long term stability of society that the Bible says:
“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife”!
As a Hindu we are taught the same thing maybe in different words. Similarly for other religions.
If you get into the aspects of polygamy & polyandry then if there was a way to check historical population records accurately; my bet would be that in the case of polygamy, say, the number of women in society was 2, 3, 4, or more times the number of men (Due to a major war, say). So polygamy became ‘accepted’ probably for the ultimate objective of stability of society. It would be better for a woman to have 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 of a husband rather than none at all! As; if she had no husband then she would try to satisfy her sexual, romantic and emotional needs by ensnaring the husband of another woman! The need for a husband was very important in the past when women’s rights, employment opportunities etc. were minimal or zero. Polyandry can be similarly analysed.
Anyway! I could go on forever!
Fidelity, honesty, faithfulness… these are all words that are connotative in meaning.
For my family (which consists of 3 adults who share their lives and love), the definitions of fidelity, honesty and faithfulness all have nothing to do with our sexual behaviours and everything to do with our emotional behaviours. As long as we are aware of how our sexual behaviours will effect each other, the physical aspects of our relationships are pretty much a moot point. Complete honesty with each other about our lives and remaining faithful to each other and the family (Faithful meaning steadfast in affection or allegiance and firm in adherence to promises) determines the fidelitousness of our relationship.
We are going on 10 years together, and hope to be able to continue to expand our family and the love and faithfulness it represents.
Well, I don’t take actors and actresses as role models. Their lifestyles aren’t worth emulating to me in any way. I consider them to be “entertainers” and thus all. Whether they be millonairs or billonairs, to me, they are as junky as the lifestyles they portray or as prudents as they may be in their own world. I’m considering whatever Mrs Pitt says to belong to just the Hollywood world alone because that is where she lives. She and her family donnot live in my kind of world. Their exhibitions have derailed and crashed down their moral walls. People of high moral values are my role models. To hell with whatever fidelity means to her.
Fidelity is not critical in a relationship, but both kindness and full commitment are.
Maybe fidelty is overrated…
BUT.. if you stand up in front of your friends.. the legal representatives of your state and more importantly – your partner – and make a vow to be faithful to them, yes a vow/promise/contract.. then you must stick to it regardless. Or end that union before you go on your wunderlust. But not during, in secret or otherwise as you promised them you would forsake all others.
So yeah, if you break that sacred promise to someone you supposeldy love and support.. then doing that you should be pillaried, held up to scrutiny and held to account. You are not just stealing or lieing to them, but you are betraying a personal trust presumably the greatest one you have(not) earned from them.
Hi, as far as I’m concerned I disagree with the so called “open relationships” I think it doesn’t work just because when somebody is being unfaithful with the other, the basic principle of love within a relationship colapses, I wouldn’t accept an infedility under any circumstances and I think is sad for people who does..it would be like living a lie and a fake relationship.
Re: Meren,
December 23, 2009 at 18:21
Taking the lead from many of today’s leaders i.e. ‘do as I say and don’t do as I do’
and
Keeping in mind the ‘naughty’ aspect of everyone’s personality
and
In direct opposition to the comment I just posted at 18:19 hrs
I would like to ask:
Could you educate us further on how to set up such a family (as it sounds quite interesting to me and might well perhaps appeal to others)? 8)
@Max Mahajan, Singapore
There is no “set up” for such a family. Time, circumstance and fate itself brought this family together. I met Richard in 2001 and we were married in 2003. In 2004 his job transferred him 3 hours away from our home and we decided at the time that I would stay at our home and continue to work at my job while he moved 3 hours away and took the promotion. In 2005 I met Robert and developed a relationship with him that Richard knew about from the beginning and supported. We all are committed to our family relationship, and while there have been some bumps (we have had to work with jealousy) we are all “on the same page” when it comes to our emotional lives. We all have a home together now, and Richard is with us approximately every 3 weeks for a long weekend, and until he retires that is the way things are going to have to be. He has had several girlfriends over the past 6 years, but no one that wanted to fit with our family, but Robert and I both know that eventually we’ll have more people in our lives.
If you would like information on polyamory (many loves), I would recommend the following links: http://xeromag.com/fvpoly.html , http://www.lovemore.com/faq.php , or simply search “polyamory” in your favorite browser.
Jealousy is a green-eyed monster. While a couple might agree to be open-minded about relationships, the mind could play tricks and once the imagination goes riot, hell could be let loose. Suspicion breeds further suspicion and the relationship could be under severe strain. Fidelity is a healthy rule if you want your marriage to survive the test of time. Of course true love is fantastic but there are too many twists and turns inreal life.
“Oh, what a tangled web we weave,
When first we start in to deceive!”
Isn’t it deception that is infidelity’s most hurtful and demeaning element? There are both polygamous and polyandrous societies where everyone seems to get along famously, but these are strong family or tribal units.
The stability and security of children is thus protected, which is the point of it all after all.
I can’t see many children enjoying their parents having an “open” marriage.
I am in a relationship with a man who discussed having an open relationship with his wife. Years ago she got MS, they have struggled but stayed together. THey decided together that he could have a relationship outside of marriage as thier level of intimacy was so diminished due to her physical condition. My best friend objects my family does not
Also, when I was in my 20’s I had a 4 year love triangle but the two men eventually started hating each other previously they thought they could cope They knew each other
Fidelity to monogamy is overrated. There are several groups here in Portland Oregon that are polyamorous. They work out just fine because everyone knows about each other’s extended relationships. The problem with infidelity is the secrecy and the violation of trust. In a truly open, honest polyamorous relationship everyone knows and shares their love with the whole community. What could be healthier?
Keith
Fidelity has religious routes. Loyalty also has religious routes. Love also has its routes in religion. But today, religion is getting unfashionable. Its associated values are also becoming old-fashioned. Brad and Angie are atheists. What else can you expect from them? Angie is only sticking to her values. So so sad.
In my personal experience, partners who claimed that fidelity was critically important were MORE, not less, likely to cheat on me. As the old folk saying goes: “the guilty dog barks first”.
My current relationship works precisely because neither partner has expected absolute fidelity from the beginning. The only requirement is honest communication. We have found that by lowering the expectation of fidelity, the thrill of temptation is also lowered; and to our surprise, fidelity has remained intact.
being attracted to other people from the distance is one thing now actively getting involved in a sexual relationship with another is another matter all together. The very thing that seperates humans from animals is control!
Dynamite was originally conceived for controlled explosions in mines, to enable innovation.
i’ve been in love, and being sexually attracted to other people does not contradict love. believe me, married people around my office are the ones who flirt the most, and i’m sure a lot of them are in love.
That is a bit dramatic Andrew. I think that the person who violates trust will suffer at the hands of his/her own conscience much more effectively and inescapably than any guilt or scrutiny could ever exact, it just may not be as instant as those betrayed would like.
Infidelity is the ultimate slap in the face to your partner. Definitely not over-rated but it is mandatory for a loving relationship.
I spent many years in and out of long and short-term relationships and had lots of fun with many consenting partners. When I finally got married (something I never imagined for myself), it was because I was ready to give up that lifestyle. What’s the point of a marriage if you want to continue being with other people and sleeping around? I still desire other women, but I know, for me, that if I acted on those impulses it would likely be catastrophic for my marriage. It may work for some, but I believe most of those people are fooling themselves if they believe it won’t affect their marriage. It will.
The fundamental question of this discussion is flawed. It depends upon your definition of a “relationship”. Are you talking about a lifelong committed relationship or simply dating/casual sex relationship? Is this just a discussion about sex?
I keep hearing “I, I, I, me, me ,me”. That’s fine for YOU, but not for everyone.
-Anthony, LA, CA
Most people think they’re more open-minded than they actually are. I’ve seen it happen; someone who thinks they’re okay with an open relationship finds that jealousy rears its head after all. When they address their partner about it, the response is always the same: “Hey, you said you were okay with it. *shrug* So the problem’s yours, not mine.”
Ultimately, the partner who wants an open marriage is mentally placing his or her desires above those of the spouse. “Marriage without restrictions?” God-of-your-choice forbid your behavior should have any boundaries! How last-millennium!
Consider having an show on the subject “Are Mega-Celebrity Opionions Overrated?” This will be my first occasion of turning off a BBC World broadcast because of its shallowness. Enjoy the large number of repspondents without me.
@archiblad: Really? You really think everyone who hurts someone else ultimately feels guilty about it?
Open relationships can be loving, supportive, and liberating if the people involved are mature and honest. It is folly to look for all of your needs to be fulfilled by just one person. That puts too much pressure on the primary relationship. While open relationships may not be for everyone, they are a viable and legitimate option for people to choose.
@Tamara: “looking for your needs to be fulfilled” – again, “me me me.” Love is about considering the needs of the other person to be equal to, or greater than, your own.
Oh, and about the people being “mature and honest” – haven’t you watched House? Everybody lies.
Uh, house is a tv show… tv, even “reality tv” isn’t REALITY!
What people don’t realize, is that the reason why a lot of couples overcome difficulties in their realtionships is because of the physical aspect. To be able to be with your parther emotionally and physically, you have to be able to overcome your problems and disagreements.
Once you start having relations outside of your committed realtionship, your partnership is doomed!!.
That is because the physical and emotional connection of the relationship is now broken. Once it is broken it will never be the same.
Swingers have been known to have MUCH lower divorce rates in the U.S. than non-swingers. In the last report I read, it was about 5%.
-Anthony, LA, CA
Ivana from 19.25 is not from Siberia, but from Serbia!
Kind regards,
Tihana
I think fidelity is a wonderful thing, but it just seems to be too much of an effort for some people. It feels effortless to me, I simply love my husband and don’t want anyone else, even though I tend to be a little flirtatious by nature, and I admire a good-looking guy as much as anyone else. I know I have a good thing, and I would never risk something that means everything to me for something that means much less. I think for relationships to work, the people in them have to be capable of separating emotion from the act of sex. Now that it what I find to be too much of an effort, love and sex are inextricably linked for me.
Self-interest isn’t the heart of committed love. Commitment is.
As a person who has had only one sexual partner, my wife of 14 years, I can say that my marriage is above par because sexuality, although a significant part of the marriage–is not the focus.
Marriage for us gets better every year, and our understanding of each other grows with each day. This makes us better physical and social partners.
Promiscuity is really the issue here. If people submit themselves to their physical desires they will be ruled by them.
Chesterton was right, “There are two ways to get enough. One is to desire more and more, and the other is to desire less.” I choose the peace and joy of monogamy with a life-partner and fight militantly to maintain romance between us. That’s the most amazing sort of love to share.
To quote Steve Martin ” That’s okay for you but not for me”. Personally I am not strong enough to endure an open relationship.
Is this the same woman who wore a vial of blood around her neck when she was married to Billy Bob Thornton?
Why do we even care what she thinks?
This is another example of Hollywood trying to define cultural norms. Your life as a reality show. And when one of the big stars makes a comment, we are supposed to accept it as Verbum Dei.
Ooops, I meant “I think for OPEN relationships to work, the people in them have to be capable of seaprating emotion from the act of sex.
Anyone who thinks sex is underrated, has never had an all day sex day, where all you do is stay in and have sex alllll day long. SEX is DEFINITELY not underrated.
-Anthony, LA, CA
My parents have had an open relationship for over 30 years, and it has always been comfortable for us kids as long as there was communication. Some of us have open relationships ourselves, some of us don’t. Everyone is different, and everyone loves in different ways. Trust and honesty are the key.
-Mallie, San Francisco, CA
A little ”jealousy” is essential to form the definition of a relationship. If the idea of someone else being sexually intimate with your partner doesn’t bother you that’s not a relationship. You’re probably in it for some other reason. I guess so long as you both know what that reason is then an ”open relationship” is a logical conclusion.
No, fidelity is important. I have been in an open relationship before and one thing am sure is that it was as a result of selfishness for I proposed it from fear that one of us might cheat and i dint want to imagine the amount of hurt that would result. But once trust was established, we discarded the open relationship
I am okay with it as long as there is HONESTY! Because of the diseases that can be transmitted it is important that the parties are honest with each other.
Fidelity is not essential to a successful relationship. But HONESTY IS essential to a successful relationship. Infedelity implies dishonesty, but an honest open relationship is a different matter, and can be quite successful.
My partner and I have been in a loving committed relationship for 11 years. We have been sexually open since day one, but we are also emotionally monogamous. My partner’s needs and my commitment to him always come first, and vice versa. We have a great active sex life together, and we both also have sex outside our relationship regularly. The sex we have outside our relationship is just that: sex. We don’t go out on romantic dates or spend the night with other people. Each of us likes to do some things sexually that the other does not, and we are able to satisfy those desires outside the relationship without forcing each other to do things we don’t enjoy.
And we routinely hear from our friends and family that we are the happiest couple they know. And I wholeheartedly agree.
Nice to hear this discussed! Only the two people in a marriage/relationship can know how it is. If both agree, then it can be wonderful to add other intimate relationships. I have an open marriage. I love my husband, and he loves me. We occasionally like to add a lover, usually for me because it is easier to find a man willing to be an open lover. But we’ve had a woman also. We’d love to find a couple for this also, but hard to find chemistry for all. We’ve had 3-somes, but most often we’ve been alone with our outside lover.
Marriage/relationship can include all the traditional activities (raising children, business partners, etc.) and also include the excitement of having others. When I return to my husband we’re both revved up!
Fidelity and monogamy are not the same thing. Fidelity is defined as ‘faithfulness to obligations’ and monogamy is the act of having only one partner and being loyal to the one you have. One can still maintain relational fidelity while having an open relationship. It is certainly not everyone’s cup of tea, but if both parties are legitimately on the same page about the ideals of this relationship, then it can be an asset to the marriage or relationship.
I was wondering whether David’s website is for people in open relationships only or for those looking to cheat as well. I think it’s an important distinction. When Brad Pitt cheated on Jenifer Aniston, I doubt she had the same feelings that Angelina Jolie is expressing now. What’s important is that all parties involved are in agreement. If everyone in the relationship is okay with it, what does it matter what anyone else thinks?
Anthony LA, CA
why so much skepticism towards ‘happily ever after’ mentality
Having an “open” relationship does not equate to infidelity. Many people claim to be maintaining fidelity, but they are actually lying and having secret affairs. The real question should be, is monogamy over rated – then perhaps we can be honest. Let’s discuss that, please.
Well, I think now we know why Brad dumped Jennifer Anniston for Angelina.
Actually, I know plenty of people who are incapable of being faithful that went ahead and got married anyways.
I have only had polyamorous relationships and I have lived 33 years. I believe that if one loves someone fully they want them to by happy, sometimes that happiness involves intimate actions with others. Sometimes I want to have intimate encounters with others as well, but that does not mean I love my partner any less. In fact I appreciate my partner more for being open to me being my true self. For me this is true love and real love. I always come home to my partner and my partner always comes home to me. And we have a healthy active sexual relationship too. I think it depends on the person as well, some folks are more into closed relationships and if that works for them that is wonderful! As long as there is open compassionate communication any relationship, open or closed, can be amazing.
-Shane
Portland, OR
Thank you duckpocket for speaking alot of sense
who is Nuala Mc Gowern?
She is great!
great show!
Every relationship is unique. Only the couple involved in their own relationship can comment on their relationship. Defining “relationship” is great for discussion. Trust is vital in a relationship. Secrets, no matter how big or small they are, will eventually lead to some sort of strain. My experience is current and very difficult. I’ve been told I can have sex with other people because my partner can not have as much sex as she wants due to health reasons – She feels guilty that she is robbing me of an essential human form of connection. I feel guilty because I want to have sex but know she can’t – we love each-other deeply. We’ve been together for 12 years and I feel attracted to sex (like most humans) but haven’t been able to take her up on her incredibly open offer… having sex with other people because you are bored with your partner is kind of odd as I feel those who do that are not only lying to their partners, they are lying to themselves… Dishonesty only leads to problems – Sex isn’t the only form of love – it’s a huge part but not the only part…
You are conflating fidelity and monogamy. Faithfulness and loyalty are not necessarily the same as having only one partner.
Honesty with oneself and with one’s partner + open communication is key. If both parties in the relationship are open to an “open relationship” it’s no one else’s business what they do and with whom.
Great new host – hope you’ll have Nuala on again!
@ Robi
I defiantly believe in “happily ever after”. My “happily ever after” involves a monogamous relationship. I’m just saying a lot of these people are being ignorant.
-Anthony, LA, CA
I am the manager of a Swinger’s Club in London and our members are couples who are in an open relationship.
They attend the club as we provide a safe and secure environment for them to have an open sexual relationships with other couples.
In our experience, swinging enhances a loving relationship as long as both partners are open minded and trust their partners.
However, it does not repair a damaged relationship and an open relationship in this situation is a recipe for disaster.
Dan
@ Jennifer
Then the relationship with your girlfriend is JUST ABOUT SEX.
-Anthony, LA, CA
Excuse me? Hopefully you mean some other Jennifer.
If u are the key player in ua life u will never agree with a decision u arent up to
In the Cameroonian society we lament now the effects of infidelity. We can remember when marriage couples and even lovers were faithful to each other and what values were in society. We now lament much of the infidelity in our society now and the desires they engender with the degenerate behaviors in most levels of society and yearn for the old times. Definitely fidelity is not over rated. It is very important and a good mold for society.
Fidelity is fidelity, black and white no gray area. There is no such things as the two partners agree. Relationship between a man and a woman has to be monogomous only. If you see someone else, that is cheating, infidelity.
Kim, please do a quick search on the definition of those two terms you are confusing, fidelity does not equal monogamy, they are not the same thing. In most relationships, they are treated as equal, though they are not fundamentally the same ideal.
Why are we (the public) taking relationship advice from Angelina Jolie? This woman was reared in Hollywood (where reality is completely different than for the rest of us), does not speak to her father, has had repeated affairs with married men, has destroyed two marriages, walked around with a vial of Billy Bob Thornton’s blood in it to show her committment to him, etc., etc. How far “left of center” does someone have to be to be considered a poor choice as the authority on any given topic? Morality and ethics don’t apply to people such as her; she lives a priviliged and artificial life which has nothing to do with the lives of others.
Considering Nature, I wonder if fidelity is the lie. If fidelity is such an artificial construct that is just goes against nature. Most animals are not monogamous, and it seems that most humans are not either.
I wonder if fidelity was created by monarchs and religions for the purpose of controlling people by guilt-tripping, threats, and other dysfunctional mental types and behaviors.
So many religions practiced bigamy and or polyandry, and what about the Saudis with their many wives and children?
It seems to be a pretty wide and fairly ambiguous range of sexual behaviors among humans.
It just is not clear to me.
“Committed relationship” does not necessarily mean “sexual fidelity”. To argue such requires elevating the base act of procreation above all other aspects of human life.
And to be entirely logical, having many partners inevitably leads to more mixing of the gene pool, which benefits the entire species.
@anthony
so is sex according to you under or overrated
Now the guest is being hypocritical. If it’s fine to have an open relationship, then it’s fine to get a prostitute. Now HE’S the one being ignorant.
-Anthony, LA, CA
Fidelity can work if that’s how the relationship is set up but we are conditioned to think it’s the only way. It is important to know upfront what you want and need in a relationship. It’s more important to have love and commitment in a relationship and to be out about what you desire and negotiate upfront what works for you as a couple. Cheating is so prevalent in this world and if we are up front about loving each other and staying together opening a relationship can work. Negotiation and communication and love is the way to happiness in all parts of a relationship. We humans have a much larger capacity to love and receive love.
Your guests are talking about commitment and loyalty, which can be present in an open or polyamorous relationship. World Have Your Say as not done its job in getting a balanced view.
My girlfriend and I have been in an open relationship for a number of years. It adds an extra special dynamic to our relationship that has only made my love for her deeper. We have specific rules that we live and play by that keeps our relationship a success.
Your Dr., the author of 829 telltale signs is a narrow-minded sexist. She has obviously confused love with sex, and fidelity with monogamy. This is a nation of institutionalized beings. Marriage is not natural, monogamy is not natural, sex is. Besides, where is the book 829 ways to know SHE is cheating?
@ Trenton
repeat what you just said in layman’s language if you don mind
If 1 person in the relationship doesn’t want to have sex anymore it’s not fair to the other person. Some arrangement needs to made for the one who still wants/needs it. On the other hand, it’s not cool to have sex outside the relationship w/o telling your partner/spouse – and potentially exposing them to disease when you do have sex.
A relationship is a shared bond between two people whether it be physical, mental, emotional, etc. That said, in some way we all share open relationships with other people.
I would not be comfortable with my wife wanting to have an open relationship based on sex. But she has both male and female friends that she chats with and they share different non-physical bonds that I cannot provide her.
Actresses or rather celebrities have divided royalty between the boss, promoters and the spouse. This kind of relationships suit them very well. It is easy to be liberal and overlook the fact that most us underate our lack of strength when faced with disloyalty.
Infidelity means that you are not yet where you want to be in the end. You are just exploring the world of relationships.
An open relationship worked just fine for Vita Sackville-West and her husband Sir Nicolson and that was in the 1930’s-40’s+. Perhaps those interested in being in a marriage that includes extra-marital affairs ought to look into what they did to make it work – and so publicly!
I wish they would harsh with the story of the train derailed in kenya
Sexual incompatability is a major cause of breakdown of marriage usually discovered too late especially in more rigid societies. However that does not automatically mean that two people who love each other and are otherwise well matched cannot reconcile their different sexual needs. And if that means one partner, with the acceptance of the other, avails him/herself with sex outside the marriage. That seems to me a perfectly civilised solution. But the sexual incompatability has to be recognised and accepted by both partners.
Sexuality spans the whole spectrum from alpha male to earth mother. I find it very difficult to understand how arranged marriages can work when, under those circumstances, neither partner can be aware of the sexualilty of the other until too late.
depends on what your values are.personally I don’t know how you can call yourself a Christian if you are in an open relationship. If am not mistaken Muslims have fidelity as a core aspect as their religion too.This all just goes to show how this world is becoming more and more immoral .To justify infidelity is just ludicrous!!!!!
in the show, a gentalman from Jamaca made a financial argument against non-monogamy. His asertion was that it was bad because of resulting fatherless children he has witnessed In Jamaca.
But these cases are clearly an example of irisponsability, having unplanned, unwanted, children one does not take responsability for is irisponsible, no matter the relationship structure being practiced.
In fact, responsible non- monogamy can be economicaly and socialy benificial. Here in the US it now takes 2 incomes to raise a child, and that leaves the child without a full time parent. By having families with more than 2 adults allows non-monogamists to better care for their children.
While struggling to keep an open mind on the open-relationship
concept, I must say I sense a level of deception in the motivation for
this concept.
Without sounding judgemental I suspect the parties are merely trying
to create a label that might become an acceptable norm to quiet the
guilt associated with infidelity.
Human instincts and spiritual convictions point us to a single-partner
dream from early childhood while our inherent desires for personal
gratification drive us toward infidelity.
Where we muster the will and resolve to stay true to our instinctive values, we achieve true happiness and a well balanced quality of life…
You say you are strugeling ro keep an open mind, but supposing deception is not open minded at all.
You use the term “infadelity” but the use of that term is judgmental becouse it is a term for non-monogamy with negative conotation.
You supose that some want to quiet ‘guilt’. But it is not guilt, but the very stigma you perpitrate by supposing that they should feal guilt.
Your spiritual convictions may point you to a life of monogamy, but for a socity to be free, ans for one to not be bigoted, one must be open to what is right for others, even when that lifestyle diffrs from one’s own.
To continue our last post. The decision to open our relationship was mutual; not something one wanted and the other agreed to. To have a succesful open relationship, it must be mutual and both parties establish and follow the rules that govern sexual activities with others. In our relationship fidelity in how we define it is key to the success of our relationship and it has nothing to do with whether we have sex with others or not.
If two people in a relationship love and respect each other find that something is not working after time goes by, they should try to determine what the problem is and work on a solution. However, after careful consideration and effort by both parties, they cannot determine what is wrong– or they decide to have an open relationship, then they have concluded that the original relationship has failed and therefore decided to create a new relationship with additional people.
Your lifestyle has drastically changed and the arrangement of your finances and time that you spend together will also be affected–and if you have children, well…that could complicate things even further.
Since the relationship is no longer monogamous, the energy that you put into this relationship may not be of equal value to both parties, which could result in hostilty and resentment, which can often lead to dissolution.
The original commitment to the relationship that made this a union, seems to be gone. Societal norms play a part in the reason why people get married, but love, trust and respect are key factors required to keep you together.
To all the people above who say that open relationships cannot work – I’ve been polyamorous for my whole life and in multiple relationships for the last seven years, one of which has lasted all seven. So it does work fine – just maybe not for you.
I suspect that Angelina was actually saying that she and Brad have something like an open relationship, rather than that they consider cheating okay. Which makes it a bit odd that this entire conversation seems to center on cheating. I think people automatically assume open relationships are the same as cheating, which is wrong. I cannot cheat in fact, because I have license (from my three girlfriends) to have sex with or date whomever I want.
All the folks here who think open relationships are impossible or distrust what Angelina is saying, I recommend that you google “polyamory” and start educating yourselves.
I would like to have an open relationship with Angelina Jolie. Maybe Brad Pitt too..
I want my husband to desire and want me only. Call me selfish. He can look, he can fantasize, but only touch me. We made a commitment to each other to forsake all others. Why get married, if you still want to sleep with other people? Don’t turn the sactity of marriage into a facade.
Fidelity is absolutely fundamental in a marriage. Infidelity will ruin any trust a partner has for the other one. Just look at the divorce rate.
Eat too much, you will get fat. Sex too much, will make you ugly, dirty and sick.
I wouldn’t have a so-called relationship with Jolie for any reason. She is a spoiled brat and her opinion is hardly worth listening to. Maligning a friend behind his back is simply a form of infidelity. If the media continues to encourage such people in the name of entertainment I shall continue to avoid such publications whether they be print, TV (which I don’t have), or radio. I suspect that next big thing (bubble, that is) will be the blossoming of the news media, but perhaps I am just annoyed by the way I get the BBC via Boston, MA NPR stations: its the same stuff, over and over again. For example, Peter Day’s recent report on micro-lending was broadcast on three successive nights. Do the American stations simply buy a copy and use it whenever they want? I appreciated his talk the first time I heard it, just as I appreciated his take on micro-lending when, some time ago, he first interviewed the Indian guy who got the Nobel Prize for it.
Thanks for letting me blow of steam about what annoys me,
NealN
Romantic and sexual attachments, at their best, are deep, complex and involve the self-image of both parties in profound ways. Infidelity plays with fire that can irreversibly burn the one you love. While such adventures can have little meaning for the faithless, they gamble recklessly with the trust, security and self-image of the other person with consequences that can be impossible to anticipate. Even when openly agreed-upon, these actions are not without consequences and can be hazardous.
Having experienced a non-married, open-relationship before, I can say that this type of relationship is not for just everybody. In fact, I think more people than not would have difficulty making an open relationship work. In my situation, I found this type of relationship to be too much work in unpleasant ways. The two people initially in the relationship must be both equally on the same page about bringing others into their lives, and I rarely think this is the case. Perhaps this type of relationship could work if both individuals tend to live far apart on a regular basis and do not have children, or their children have grown up. As for me, I will never again explore an open relationship, and I welcome the ‘potential’ challenge of monogamy with my ONE person I have made a commitment with.
Sharing your spouse with someone else = PROSTITUTION
It appears these days that any morals are over-rated. Whatever feels good then it’s right. I am not religious, but feel that the 10 commandments are a good set of rules to live by. However, these days the it appears the further morals are from christian values the better.
Hollywood stars are hardly the people to talk about fidelity.
Firt of all Jolie is not even married and has 9+ children? (I read she is pregnant again)
Most of the hollywood people are not the people to talk about what is moral.
When married, we are making a vow before God and witnesses. The vow is made to the person we are marrying.
Jolie is living according to her standards, which are immoral. She took someone elses husband. She is living with him as married, but is not married. She has how many children from this man? The relationship will probably end, she will move on to someone else. Meanwhile, her children will wonder where their ‘father’ is.
Once married, fidelity is a must. Two people are committed to each other and their children. Unfortunatley, this country, and Europe, has lost every fiber of morality.
Listening to this discussion, I hear two main questions emerge:
1. Are open relationships morally right?
2. Do open relationships work?
Most respondents are really trying to answer the first question. To answer the second question, you need to either be in close proximity to some open relationships or be in one yourself. In spite of their concerns or interestes, most respondents are not in a position to really answer the second question.
– I am.-
Because I have been in an open relationship for the last 6 years and it works beautifully. My 8 year old marriage was on the rocks and we tried everything – conselling, therapy, mediation, the works. As a last resort, we decided to open up the relationship. Since then it has brought us only joy, freedom, intimacy and growth (emotional & spiritual). People participating in this debate should really listen to several people like me who are in successful open relationships before pontificating on whether it works or not.
My friend, it is because they are too deeply brain-washed by social institutions like religion. ‘Marriages are made in heaven!’ One wonders why the Catholic clergy who advocate it, don’t marry. In recent years what the church has been accused of, I suppose tells us why.
Can someone give Angelina Jolie my phone number?? LOL
If K. Newton from USA asked “Is longevity overrated?”, would it appear on WHYS? Angelina Jolie is not a famous philosopher; she’s an actress. WHY should anyone really care what she says about cultural values as opposed to any other schmuck’s shtick?
I am opinion that ONE FOR ONE is man made law. Prior to so called civilization began relationship between man and women was not confined One for one. But with the passage of time when greed and selfishness raised its head men and women began to to say my wife, my husband my house, my money etc etc. But we could not say my child, because we need two to make a child. even the children cannot claim the parents are his/her parents. Invariably parents may have more than one child and there fore children have to say OUR Parents. However only in the case of husband and wife it is said MY husband ,MY wife. This is the only instant where jealousy is distinctly displayed and one is unable to find reason. Perhaps this is a case of mind over matter i.e if you do not mind, it does not matter and when it does not matter you don’t mind.
I also would like to ask a question on a practical situation: e.g Due to war or some other reason there are more men than women in the world, say Ten Men to one women ,only one child could be produced every year, but on the other hand if the word is left with One man And Ten women you will be able to produce almost ten children simultaneously subject to fertility.
At this point jealousy may vanish and the man will be LUCKY as long as he could cope up?
You cannot justify everything, including immoral or unethical acts, just because both the partners agree to them.
Angelina Jolie, is wrong, wrong wrong.
But having said that if Brad’s out next thursday night, I’m available for a quickie.
IIt is both ludicrous and insulting to advance comments on serious moral issues from any Hollywood type .In an industry where horizontal is the normal casting posture marital fidelity let alone commitment is not the fashion.Not having seen this paragon of wisdom ,I can merely suspect that her active physical elements may not be between her ears.
In the game of life the score is, Love All and not Love One!
Marriage and partnerships are only attachments due to insecurity, the need for possession, responsibility and ownership. Such institutions were created by society to solve problems of conflict and economy. In a progressive society other ways have to be found by conscious individuals rather than sticking to old indoctrinations.
wow, amazing world views on this, some scary!!! i think everything has to come down to some sort of foundation, whether its religion, culture, or the more liberal and modern notion of free thinking, at the end of the day to have a believe or a principle is about playing it against, some sort of foundation otherwise sense goes out the window and there is no reason for anything.
The Value of anything is in the Person, im for fidelity and found someone who is for it, we super happy, there is a special feeling in being reserved for someone, and knowing wherever they are they are reserved for you. it makes me feel better than a house flies, i guess. Anything can shag whatever, the human difference for me is that its personal its about the person, that particular gravitation, to the same spirit, same mental, same values person.
*Hollywood gets bored quickly, because it sells fake, the thing with fake is we lose feeling for it even quicker, so they try too hard to come up with new fakes and levels of entertainment, if you get paid to pretend all the time, you at some point start pretending to think .
He who creates makes the rules, so i guess whoever created man, and the notion of relationships, is best to box things and place the value tag on there!
Her opinion and practice as to her marriage is bound to fail sometime in the future. Simply, she cant have it both ways.
Yeah but she takes it both ways.
I wonder if the so called English speaker just thru their desire defines words as it seems pleasing to them without checking out the real meaning (perhaps the origin) of such word(s). This why Kim Johnson equates fidelity to monogamy, a big thanks to JB-Lehigh Acres for your reply.
Fidelity is not the important issue but the cause of infidelity, going by it meaning of being loyal to someone (especially is sexual relationship). If someone in one time or the other is sexually loyal/faithful to his/her sex partner (NOT IN MARRIAGE) at a time but along the line they break up engaged with another an observed the same on and on again. Will this be termed as in infidelity? Certainly not, and NOTHING BUT ADULTEROUS BEHAVIOURS
People term to condoled adultery and fornication but frowned at polygamy (the likes of Kim Johnson). I recently read a research (published on Yahoo Canada about Canadian sex life) which suggested that an average Canadian has 23 sex partners and 10 more than most American and Europeans. Yet a Hollywood star with a history as painted by Lucy suggesting Fidelity is “absolutely essential for relationship” I wonder what morality such posses that she is preaching.
wrong wrong wrong
Every thing in this world is in flux. Change is the only reality. Even an individual changes from moment to moment. Nothing remains the same, so why relationships and promises? For heartbreak and misery?
Good morning
It’s nice to visit for the first time to your site. Introduce me from Indonesia.
if you do not mind so good as a visit behind
Happy Nice day….
Thanks…
To answer the question, though, I don’t think fidelity is over-rated. I don’t think it’s just about sex. We all could stand to be more faithful. I could, at least.
I thank God for my family, especially, and friends. I’m not-so-graceful sometimes…that’s definitely a type of fidelity which needs some work…patience and understanding.
I don’t see any point of any man giving all he can give only to one woman or vice versa, when there are so many of the opposite sex on the face of the earth?
I believe in living life to the full. Not curtailing or constricting oneself, just because other ignoramuses do or say so.
> …her marriage is bound to fail sometime in the
> future. Simply, she cant have it both ways.
Oh pooh! Why not? Lots of people do, in happy marriages that last a lifetime.
Especially now that, in the last generation or so, the polyamory world has accumulated much hard-won experience about what is likely to work and what isn’t, and how people can best pull it off. This is still pioneer country — but it’s not the uncharted wilderness it was 25 or 30 years ago.
Alan in the USA
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http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.com/
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Fidelity is the language of true love. As I approach my seventies I thank the Lord for a life blessed by a truly happy marriage. No doubts. No grief. Just peace, fidelity, love, security. Who could want more than that?
I guess its a little more complicated because it depends on how we view Marriage as an institution.
For those who believes in Marriage:
Is Sex and Love truly separate? Once we can answer that then we can talk about Infidelity and Marriage. They seem to share the same ambiguities. Is Sex really just an act or does it have certain components of Love in it? Can you find another person sexy enough to bed, yet separate that emotion from love? Can you say infidelity is purely an act, and not something more?
For those who don’t believe in Marriage (in this case, Brangelina):
Sexual attraction/ activity is important to some in their relationships, but not to others… Do we have the right to tell those individuals in society who have more libido than others, that they haven’t the right to determine for themselves, the role that sexuality plays in their relationships, if their life partners are fully consenting adults? In this model, fidelity – along with marriage, is certainly overrated.