U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates acknowledged over the weekend that the US have little or no recent intelligence on the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden.
So is it time to stop looking for him?
Or do you agree with General McChrystal who yesterday said “I don’t think that we can finally defeat al Qaeda until he’s captured or killed” ? Is Osama bin Laden too iconic to give up on?
Here’s our post on this from last week:
The hunt for the world’s most wanted man has got a new lead.
Osama bin Laden is still alive and in Afghanistan… that’s according to information provided by a Taliban detainee in Pakistan. He had not met bin Laden himself, but met a man who had.
Leading US expert, former CIA analyst Bruce Riedel, says this is an important breakthrough.
These claims cannot be verified and they have been rejected by an independent authorities of the Ghazni province – the area where Bin Laden is said to be undercover.
The Al Qaida ringleader has been on the run now for eight years. The fact that he’s been difficult to pin down is legendary, inspiring films and books.
However, he is still at large and escaped from the Tora Bora mountains under the nose of George W. Bush’s military commaders, according to a US Senate report released last Sunday. His escape was down to a lack of trust and coordination between Washington and Islamabad.
It this source is correct, however, Pakistan can breathe a sigh of relief; they don’t have Bin Laden on their soil.
So tell us what you think…Is this the breakthrough in finding Bin Laden? Why has the west been unable to find him so far? Should we be focussing on finding Bin Laden or on quelling the counter insurgency militants?
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BBC World Have Your Say 
I honestly don’t think that the West has done enough in the recently years—in finding Osama Bin Laden….
=Dennis Junior=
The West has been unable to find him so far because they fight like soldiers, with all the latest military hardware. If they masqueraded as tribal Taliban, they would find him, lay some mines outside his lair, or gas into his cave (oh – that is a no-no according to the UN convention on how to fight a war) Publicly behead some of his
gang, like they do, instead of being noble warriors. Perhaps just restrict his Western medicine that he is probably using to keep himself alive.
the west announced a pack of cards years ago about the guys they wanted and announced the top three of the most wanted.getting one would have led to the other two and when they got one since he got arrested in Pakistan territory they had to deal with him but as likely they let him escape
**** Warning – Friday comment****
Ah the Elusive White Wizard Saruman from the Lord of the Rings, releasing a pop video now and then like a celebrity desperate for the spotlight. Where art thou oh tall bearded one. Perhaps in hiding with Salman Rushdie and Bigfoot.
Back here in conspiracy land, we all know he’s at a holiday ranch in the Bahamas with the CIA, plotting for his sudden capture and display, thus ending the war on terror (all within the 18 months Obama promised …awww bless).
**** End warning ****
Prisoners will tell you anything to stay alive and stop being tortured.
If he had been living in a Western, Russian, or Indian city, he would’ve been found years ago. But he lives in Pakistan, in the tribal areas, and Pakistan doesn’t seem to be too concerned about this. Although there are only a limited number of places where he can hide (well-guarded walled-estates in the tribal areas) it would be suicide for even the best Western special forces to comb out Peshawar and the surrounding cities. Especially since this would have to be done without the support of the Pakistani authorities who continue to refuse the deployment of foreign troops on their soil.
In a way Pakistan is protecting Bin Laden because the government is more interested in hanging on to power than in making the potentially very unpopular move (yes, we’re told that radical Muslims are only a small minority, but in Pakistan and the Middle East vast portions of the population admire Bin Laden) to go after Bin Laden.
They shoudn’t be focussing on searching Osama because it’s not verified yet.
indeed it’s an important case to keep civilian people innocent, not make them as victims of both parties again.
Foreign troops perhaps scaring Pakistani people (who dont have any relation to Osama), and the government doesn’t like those foreign troops either.
It shouldnt be exaggerated for public to know every movement they do, just to not let the enemy knows everything.
I don’t know that killing this one man would make that much of a difference tAl Qaida. They would continue to exist, wouldn’t they?
It is essential not to look for this man. The time so spent is a waste. His isolation is symbolic. He’s the “cleverest child” who hijacks the game of hide and seek, until the other children are having no fun. His portrayal as the omnipotent spider at the center of the web plucking the strings that detonate distant bombs gives that web substance and purpose. We’ve all seen modern cinematic technical effects. His inflammatory videos, cryptic communications, and the words of captive supporters are no more evidence of his residence in a Waziristan cave than they are of his occupation of a Yemeni luxury townhouse. You should remember from your childhood days, the clever child was never found actually “hiding.”
g
I don’t think we are really trying at all. I mean if we caught him wouldn’t that weeken our excuse for being over there? I find it hard to believe that we haven’t been able to locate him.
Hey let me ask this, why did we support the Taliban against Russia, train them, give them arms and all that? Why was what Russia was doing wrong and what we are doing right. I really don’t know and really don’t have time to research all the ins and outs of it all, could some please just tell me and save me some time.
Suggesting that we supported the Taliban is somewhat of an anachronism. Shah Massoud had been supported by US involvment along with those that would become Taliban, but he would not become Taliban. USSR was seeking to impose an authoritarian form of government. US has encouraged traditional organizations to exert their influence in a national democratic goverment.
That said, the enshrinement of sharia in the Constituion of Afghanistan does make one wonder if liberal reforms can last over time. Eventually, that must be addressed by Afghanis that have yet only had a taste of freedom. Freedom of conscience is still not honored by a democratic government that we helped create.
When would West ever understand that democracy is a western concept and it is repugnant to Islam? When a democratically elected body makes laws it challenges Allah’s powers as the Sole Law-Maker. A true Muslim would fight to death in saving his religion and his way of life as ordained by Allah.
Why do we sent our troops to die in vain in trying to enforce our way of life on another culture?
We were using the Afghans and the Islamists to fight against the Soviets (the Cold War enemy), to give them their own Vietnam. Another fine example of the “Ends justifies the means” and all that…
Basically, Reagan saw that the Soviet Union was close to bankcrupcy and needed a nudge to push it over the edge. The extreemly costly war in Afghanistan was just such a nudge. Also there is the intention that if we (the west) doesn’t have control over that quite important strategic area, then we should not allow anybody else to have. Anyway thats my take in a nutshell.
Because America didn’t want Russia taking over Afghanistan, and further strengthing themselves. To help ensure this didn’t happen, the CIA ran a black op to train, fund and arm the Taliban to be better able to resist the Russians.
My enemies emeny is my friend.
I think that he has no significance on what goes on in the world though now he would be required to score political both propaganda and political goals. That is all.
It would be foolhardy to think that he was the author of all these terrorist acts and naturally if you are in his position you wouldn’t mind getting unwarranted credibility as long as the world remains ignorant. The intelligence community was swift to come up with his name in less than a week after 911 and yet in more than 8 years they have almost no knowledge most of the time whether he was alive or dead. When finally found, he will be just another Denyanyuk; too much of a skeleton with no meat at all for all our tweeter.
I think we forget that Task Force Ranger’s mission in Mogadishu was actually a sucess. All targeted personalities were captured. Shall we celebrate a costly, but sucessful capture, of an insidious but geographically isolated villian? He was only ever figure head and a bag man. Operational capability of islamic terrorists will be more directly affected by enabling an enduring and renewable enemy of them. And that to be accomplished by helping to consolidate the incomplete reforms of Afghanistan’s goverment.
Forget finding him, nobody has even proved his guilt in the affairs he is being accused of. The western governments and their media have found in him a scape- goat for their own shortcomings for having caused the incident blamed on him. It was individuals tired of seeing the world being manipulated by the imperialistic west and who alone were responsible for the incident. How can anyone blame anyone else for the actions of individuals who were willing to loose their own lives and did so for their beliefs? They believed that the West needed to be taught a lesson for their pushing around and exploitation of the rest of the world.
The Americans haven’t been able to find him because there are a lot of people who are sympathetic to his cause and wouldn’t help his enemies find him.
Why is he wanted? What evidence is there linking him to the 9/11 attacks?
The FBI dont link him to the attacks and as far as anybody knows the only connections are a few badly translated videos where he appears to be gloating over the attacks.
I thought the Americans had found the “mastermind” – some guy nobody has ever heard of admitted to everything after being tortured for a few years. President Obama has assured the people of New York, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed would be convicted and executed. So there you have it, guilty before a trial.
I am still waiting to see evidence of a plane hitting the Pentagon – wheres the boing?
@ Wintergreen – My sister works 2 blocks away from the Pentagon at the post office and saw this happen. Of course you don’t know me or my sister, so maybe to you this is anecdotal evidence at best or not really evidence at all.
@ Patti, there are plenty of people on record who claim they saw a missile – some of them were ex millitary and know what such missiles look like.
A missile would explain the lack of debris. The oficial line of “the plane vapourised on impact” doesnt stand up, neither does the the explanationsaying the plane was supposed to have been able to fit through a 16′ hole.
A two prong strategy is very important. Bin Laden master-minded the biggest outrage against one of the most important countries in the world. He has to be hunted-down and be charged for the blatant attacks. The audacity of the attacks on the twin towers in New York showed the thoroughcontempt for life and for legal norms. Afghanistan is a quagmire in part due to the terrorist activities of al Qaeda and the Taliban. Bin Laden is the undisputed leader. He has to be apprehended as soon as possible to prevent the whole region becoming a safe haven for terrorists. Capturing Bin Laden and restricting the movement of terrorists are sure ways to save Afghanistan from the brink!
What evidence does anybody have that Osman Bin Laden had anything to do with the attack? To whom is the U.S. the most important of countries? To those who have left their poor countries to lick the boots of rich countries who exploit them?
Taking out Bin Laden would be much more important than some people think. It would certainly mean a noticeable drop in the number of recruits and donations.
Yes, Al Qaida can survive without him, but they would lose an important symbol as well as many contacts who were able to supply the organisation. There’s also the possibility of a leadership struggle that would weaken Al Qaida and reduce its image among radical Muslims as a pure and incorruptable organisation.
He is important as a source of finance. His value here was mostly in his ability to get money from people in industrialized nations. For the most part, this has been stopped by other means. Now, most funding comes secretly from ‘moderate’ Muslims that would never directly fight from countries that feel the same way. Much like what was popular in the US with the IRA during The Troubles.
As the US has yet to learn in it’s ‘drug war’, focusing on the head leaves strong roots. A new head will always replace the occasional cut one. You need to take away the roots. Empowering the people to resist is the only lasting solution.
No, we were preoccupied with the oil. How is the Bush administration not in prison?
-Anthony, LA, CA
It has been credibly suggested that the civilian commanders of the US military deliberately allowed Osama bin Laden to escape imminent capture in Tora Bora because his apprehension or death would have been “mission accomplished” and would have undermined their pretenses for invading Iraq. Remember, Bush, Cheney et al were loudly and energetically insisting that Saddam Hussein was in cahoots with al Qaueda and that Iraq was the epicenter of the Islamic terrorist threat. The pursuit of bin Laden is primarily symbolic; what other image would fit, simplistically, on a “Wanted: Dead or Alive” poster? Pakistan is desperate for us to believe that he is not in their country because their government’s domestic credibility (such as it is) is threatened by the US’s use of drones and other incursions and the inevitable (oh well, whatever) collateral damage.
What is the real reason for President Obama’s escalation of the war in Afghanistan?
If we lined-up and evenly-spaced our, soon to be, 100,000 troops across the width of Afghanistan, there would be less than 1 kilometer between any 2. Start on a line oriented SW to NE and passing through the Kentucky Fried Chicken in Kabul and, with air-support, walk toward the Pakistan border 200 km to the South East. At 20 km/day, in 10 days we’d have a pretty good idea of where bin Laden is, or, at least, isn’t and could then tell Pakistan “Oh no he isn’t!” This scheme is no sillier than everything that is already being done.
On any military deployment of any size or duration, only 1/3 or less is the fighting force. The rest are support. Supplies, food, maintenance and such. That would be one to every 3 miles by your account.
In a sense this is old news. Here in the States, over a year ago one of the major TV networks had proof that Bin Laden was in Pakistan. What happened? Their management killed the story.
What’s Bin Laden now? The punchline to jokes. And he got Morgan Spurlock a long term deal with Fox Films. which proves what? Crime really DOES pay?
100,000 “Sir! Yes Sir” troops armed to the teeth with the leading edge of combat technology and supported by awesome air power cannot beat 1,000 Taliban militarily. How on earth can we expect them find Bin Laden who may not even be alive??
Keep in mind that he’s not just hiding from us, he’s hiding from his own people as well. If we really wanted to we could get him at any time – all we need to do is raise the price on his head from $25 million to $100 million and let greed do the work for us.
For now it makes more sense to keeping thinning the ranks. If there’s still a lot them he’ll be more dangerous as a martyr – when there’s only a few left then getting someone to take the bait and betray him will discredit the rest.
Bin Laden moves about like a snake in the grass, often changing his locations,
to catch a snake you have to set a trap. Only hope is for someone to come forward to inform on his whereabouts.
I’m not sure what we would do with him if we did find him, if we torture/interogate him he becomes a martyr and galvonises the will of his followers, if we put him on trial then we have to accept our hand in assisting him back in the 1980’s and have to actually make a case for his guilt with evidence, if we kill him he becomes a martyr, the best we can hope for really is that he fades into obscurity and falls to ill health.
@Will
Killing him will make him a martyr (but it will also make Al Qaida seem weak), detaining him would be seen as a sign of Western weakness.
I think the latter of those effects is the most dangerous, so I hope they won’t capture him alive.
“If we lined-up and evenly-spaced our, soon to be, 100,000 troops across the width of Afghanistan, there would be less than 1 kilometer between any 2. Start on a line oriented SW to NE and passing through the Kentucky Fried Chicken in Kabul and, with air-support, walk toward the Pakistan border…”
That’s where you hit the core of the problem. To do what you propose would require sweeping powers, violating a lot of human rights and causing lots of collatoral damage. So obviously it’s not an option and these kind of restrictions to which the Taliban are not bound, are THE reason the Taliban are still operational.
Osama Bin Laden is a myth now. He has been killedin the tora bora cave years back by those heat searching bombs. Had he been alive he would not have sent only recorded messages. Voice of a person may be easily imitated.
While the “endgame” is easy: shoot him dead and claim her resisted with a weapon; finding him could have never been easy. Having lived for 30 years in a certain part of the Eastern Townships of Quebec (not unlike photos I have seen of Afghanistan), I know for certain that my chances of hiding there for years would be very good! I do not believe that “city” people truly understand this fact. For if one is able to become “one of us” in one’s time spent living in a relatively small place (vis a vis the number of people who live there), one is almost immune from “:outsiders” searching for oneself. Particularly if they are perceived as representing a hated government! This is universal, I’d say.
Assume for a second that he was found and captured alive.
Where would he be held?
Where would he be tried?
Several countries lost citizens in 9/11. Who would have jurisdiction over him?
Does he deserve a fair trial? Keep mind what happened to Sadaam Hussein.
Where would he be tried? Would it be in a civilian court or a military tribuneral?
Would this be televised live worldwide (ala the Simposon trial)? Or, would the govt. say sorry, but this involves “classified” information?
One sais in the east of Afghanistan.
One sais, noooo, in Pakistan
how come everyone knows exactly where Osama is is but no one can catch him?
I think it does not matter. It is possible that he is no longer alive, but even if he were, Bin Laden as an individual doesn’t matter so much. With or without him, Al Qaeda will continue to exist, as long as the conditions prevail that make this sort of organization attractive to people in the Middle East.
I did not agree with much of what George W. Bush did after Afghanistan, but I did agree with him when he made comments to this effect after the Tora Bora operation. It’s not all about ONE PERSON.
The soaring frequency of bombings in North and Northwest region in the past several months could only mean one thing – the focus of the militants has now been gradually shifted from Afghanistan into Pakistan and directed at strategic places in the cities.
Islamabad denies that Osama is in Pakistan. But with the blur border between the two nations in the remote terrains, he might be in one during the day and the other at night. One wonders if he still continues to play a crucial role in all the heinous killings. Nabbing him might not be the top priority.
Would Pakistan become the next Afghanistan? Hope not.
Um… Have you seen The Hunting Party movie. Watch this. It clearly depicts the West’s attitude!
The existance of Osama Bin Laden in the the world is true becuause of the Alkaida activities the middle east and Europe at large.
the US Goverment should monitor serously to eliminate its activities to bring peace.
The West Has done alot to find out Bin-laden but they need to strive very hard to succeed in their missoin because they have not yet accomplished it.
‘Pakistan can breathe a sigh of relief; they don’t have Bin Laden on their soil’.
Really??? I wont have you people make such comments so easily yet… you think you can find usama and all this wave of terrorism (which by the way, only MY country is experiencing) will end??? do you really think its that simple??? I lost friends in the suicide attack on parade line mosque yesterday!!! Do you think we, Pakistanis, like to live in these hellish conditions??? Where one’s children go to the mosque to say their prayers and are blown apart; or where one’s daughter goes to university and never comes back??? Has ANY of you ever known what it feels like to live your life in such conditions??? My country is bleeding, my people are dying all at the hands of these terrorists, and people so conveniently conjecture that we support these animals!!!
I am so sick of trying to tell the world that this is not what Pakistan is about… But I am losing my patience here, with these terrorists as well as the international community…
God Bless you all…
Catching him and putting him on trial would only be symbolic: he’s already in prison, albeit one with no visible walls and bars. He can’t enjoy his wealth, cannot travel, has to live hiding in caves, can’t visit relatives, can’t even enjoy a hot bath and warm shelter. He isn’t having much of a life. It’s not like he’s some James Bond villain living in a secret luxury hideout: prison would probably be the equivalent of a 5 star hotel compared to how he’s living now.
But the US can’t keep the situation going forever: the financial cost is too great. It would be better if he was killed. He should be tried ‘in absentia’, and the evidence for his absolute guilt established: this would go a long way in convincing people to betray him.
The west has done enough to keep the myth alive, I do not think that they ever intended to capture him as he is a useful tool in continuing to justify the fight against “terrorism”. Thank you Bush administration.
Just two weeks ago there were claims from the US that Bin Laden is in the border areas of Pakisan. Now Pakistan has found some so called detainee who claims Binladen is Afghanistan. There is a widespread theory, though, held in Afghanistan that there has not been any real effort to apprehend Bin Laden. He symbolizes a threat, poiting northward towards Central Asia and the Russian backdoor, and he is a big justification for continued military presence of the West in the region. This theory plays into the continuation of the Great Game and the geopolitical rivalries in the region, Afghanistan being a link. With this theory the capturing or announcing the death of the Arab militant will be a very major turning point, such as the demise of the Soviet Union. It is quite easy to understand that with his capture or kill the terrorist acts will not end. Probably much of the terrorist acts do not originate from him and maynot have anything to do with Al Qaida, though much of such acts may invoke the same justifications that Al Qaida does, the issue of Israel and Palestinians being the central part of it.
In actual practice, it is very difficult, and almost impossible, to operate from Afghanistan agains the International forces or Afghan government and its supporters, especially if that person is very high profile. Therefore, I believe it will be extremely difficult for Bin Laden, if he is really at odds with US policies, will not be able to live and move around in Afghanistan. If he is in the region, then he is in Pakistan.
Fighting Bin Laden is the wrong war for the cultures worldwide.
Bin Laden is a product of an educational system running several generations.
Many more graduated this education system and many more are attending currently such schools.
What the world cultures and Muslims peace loving should do?
***Change peoples mindset***
Winning battles without changing the local peoples mind set is meaningless.
As long as the Islamist ideas will be peoples core mindset either the Taliban or similar organizations, on the long run, will challenge the world .Continuing to be a treat to non Islamic cultures.
Find and help alternative Islamic doctrines in the Muslim world preaching for peaceful coexistence between Islam and the other worldwide cultures to gain Muslims harts
Denying this challenge is like denying that the earth is revolving the sun.
WITHOUT AN ISLAMIC ALTERNATIVE TO THE MILITANT ISLAMIST DOCTRINE –
UP AND DOWNS OF THE STRUGGLE WILL CONTINUE FOR GENARATIONS TO COME
why on earth anyone should be looking for bin Laden is beyond me. He was only responsible for the deaths of circa 3000 innocent people. Bush and Blaire are responsible for at least 100 times that amount of innocent people.
They are not looking for him at all. It’s just a ruse to project to the rest of the world for all the rubbish the West is employed in outside their own territories..
If Morgan Spurlock comes out with a sequel to his first film about Bin Laden, I’m going to be really angry……
Though the west has done alot to find out Osama Bin Laden, they should also watch out that, it is not Him who is carrying out the terror attacks but these are his comrades. Especially the west should intervene in the issues like the violation of human rights in Darfur, Congo, Northern uganda by the LRAs and many other activities associated with Aqaida attacks in the whole world for peace to prevail.
I know of this man as mystical and can not be found..what amazes me is how the west has kept mum of this guy
Maxine (6th Dec) is absolutely right. We fought with kid gloves in Iraq and we are doing the same in Afghanistan. The West always fights the current with the previous war’s tactics. The generals never learn anything from the past and they never study the enemy.
As for the CIA – they are just a bag of wind. God help the US president. Just what do those idiots, running alongside his car pretending to be bodyguards, think they are doing?
By now what Bin Laden stands for is greater than the man himself and will not go away. In fact if he is killed, both his stature as a martyr and the cause he built will receive a huge boost. However, we can’t expect a military man who considers body count to be a strategic military indicator to understand this.
We take it for granted the Bin-Laden and Al-Qaeda were responsible for 9/11, because our leaders told us so and we believe they wouldn’t lie to us. Others don’t have to believe Western governments. Do the Afghan people believe that Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11, or do they still remember him as the hero who fought alongside them to oust the Soviet occupiers? It might be a big factor in getting any intelligence and cooperation in finding him.
west has not infact done any thing to find this man…..capture of osama means a full stop to american intervention in asia specailly in pakistan and afghanistan…
Killing him would only make him a martyr. If you think Islamic militants idolize him now, killing Osama would make them worship him. I remember seeing an interview with such a militant; when asked how he viewed Bin Laden, he compared it with how Americans view Abraham Lincoln.
As for capturing him, not having him in the field to provide leadership obviously wouldn’t be a bad thing, but even then, his capture would provide a rallying point for militants. The real problem here is Islamic militancy (NOT Islam itself), and that stretches far beyond the reach of just this one person.
We can’t afford to make the US drug war mistake and only go for the thorn. They grow back too quickly. Go for the root. If you encounter a thorn on the way, that helps.
They can not will not kill or capture Bin Laden because that would make him a martyr to all the muslims of the world .Simple fact
the reality is that we are doing too much. We have tried to do brains surgery with a chain saw. Every hunter or naturalist knows that if you want to get close to the wildlife, you need to set up your stands, then sit down and go to sleep for awhile. eventually, they will assume the danger is gone, and start coming out into the open.
At that point I highly recommend that he is relieved of his earthly obligations without fanfare. The US should deny we had anything to do about it. Keep monitoring tools in place. If any other threats arise, make them go away as well. If possible, make it look like Pakistan was responsible for it. If they are occupied fighting amongst themselves, they will be too busy to unite against the west.
There is evidence against US and western wrong doing against other countries all over the world. Criminalizing Bin Laden is just to take away the attention that the reasons for the war against the ex-partners( the Taliban, Bin Laden, and Sadam and others.. ) is a poor attempt to say the “democracy” fights for justice and the good of mankind.
Maybe I’m wrong, but the world is going through a crisis because terrorism? how many of the financial terrorist have been arrested tortured and deprived of the basic human rights? If it’s justice that the US is looking for, they should start at home. Financing terrorist to work for them and when they are no longer needed accusing them of terrorism is immoral, and anti democratic.
Dwight from Cleveland is so right – track him quietly – bump him off silently – say and do nothing – keep watching out for any resurgence without a word.
Never let the quarry know that you are out there.
This means penetrating the Taliban by forming a fifth column.