Rwandan President Paul Kagame.”The Chinese bring what Africa needs: investment and money for governments and companies, -China is investing in infrastructure and building roads”
The “west” gets short shrift from the Rwandan leader in an article with a German newspaper..
“Western firms have to a large extent polluted Africa and they are still doing it”
and he claims that European and American investment is inextricably linked with aid.
His words come a few days after China won praise for it’s talks with North Korea to bring them back to the negotiating table.
A few weeks before that and China gets kudos for promising more on climate change than anyone else…
While economists suggest we are at the end of a western economic order, with China set to be the next “leader” of the world.
Are China just getting things done while the rest of the world just talks about it ?
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China is unfettered by political/religeous loyaltiesand has no imperialistic ambitions. They also have an outdated view of what matters are internal with the friendly countries they woo and can therefore focus on business and development much more effectively and efficiently than their blinkered Western friends.
Spot on, Nigel. I would add that Western powers long known for their colonial past with all it its attendant evil will always be looked at with suspicion and distrust, and quite justifiably so.
China always takes more than it gives, sometimes clandestinely making away with what doesn’t belong to it. I don’t know, if lately, there’s been a change of heart; that being so, then it certainly is a welcome change which can do a lot of good to the world, and solving problems can, form now on, become much easier and more effective.
THERE’S NO BAD/GOOD COLONIZATION !
I think there are differences features that Africa shares with China especially in area of humanrights & democracy where their performance aren’t that good so far.
I fear to say that Africa as a continent has been left paralyze by Western exploitation to the extends that it will no longer defend it self from a new prey like China who are just greedy for minerals hence rolling their big machineries on “Humanrights & democracy” in the continent.Look now China has signed a new contract with Equatoria-Guinea who have just kills more than 150 peaceful protesters in a recent month,is that what world needs? Darfur too has China connections!
China & mineral has become a new virus in modern Africa since their obligations is only to empower dictators.
I wanna know whether there was any peace initiative ever been conducted by China anywhere in the world to prove that they are solvers?
I believe you are unfortunately right. The chinese and the european and american firms who have ascended them pursue the same targets-namely making profit, often taking into account that the business deals only help and stabillize the position of
often a corrupt regime which does not care about anything than its own well-being.
As their european and american counterparts the chinese firms do not care about the current political state of the country with whose government they have signed a deal with, nore do they care more than european or american firms about reducing pollution to a minimum. A country which neglects the needs of nature within its own borders is not likely to change its behaviour in a foreign country unless it is ordered to do so by the local law.
Despite N. Korea being China’s client, no solution in sight. Same with Burma. China has enabled genocide in Darfur (though Khartoum might think that a ‘solution’). ‘Tibet’? Is Xinjiang already forgotten? China itself remains a despotism whose people, pre- and post-Tianemen, are mainly loyal slaves, though increasingly well-fed and prosperous ones. And wasn’t it China that tried to help solve Zimbabwe’s problems with a massive secret arms shipment?
Or are we talking about the China that exists in a parallel universe as a force for progress, freedom, decency and good, rather than the China the rest of us know?
I am more concern about the sustainability of what China is doing here in Africa, and the fact that they tend to close there eyes on terrible human rights issues here on the African continent. China is after making more money to sustain it’s growth, but not having consideration on people’s right. they say that they are not concern with internal politics of countries with which they are doing buisness, but I am quite aware that they have some very strong influence on governments that are not willing to work in accordance with international rules and standards. another thing is that Africa has become a dumping ground for all kind of outdated product from the chiniese that do not meet any standard. there are no check and balances on all of those, by our local authorities.
Sure. Just look at the way they tried and sentenced 6 people to death today for the riots a few months ago. Yhe very model of effecient problem-solving, wouldn’t you say?
I can hardly wait to see how they solve Africa’s problems…
Seems to me that the 6 were sentenced for involvement in near to 200 murders…..might have got that wrong! Why can’t they just do business with Africa and leave African trouble solving to the Africans?
China itself being a third world country is more coherent with the problems on the ground that nationas in Africa face as opposed to the western world. Their probelms/complications/negotiations/polictics might not be the same but definitely similar.
So their participation in the development of African nations ought to be more effective. Kudos China!!
@Uzondu Esionye October 12, 2009 at 13:43: you’re right to worry about sustainability.
African countries can’t maintain Chinese-created infrastructure. The ‘solution’: China will establish a permanent African presence (eventually including a military component) to keep that infrastructure intact. The Chinese are self-interested & smart enough never to give their African clients the solution to their problems of ‘teaching them to fish’. Instead, Africans have embraced a new form of dependency. How else to explain Kagame’s remarks, an African leader celebrating his country’s impending reversion to semi-colonial status?
But I do prefer the Chinese approach of not concerning themselves about the human rights etc of other countries. In that respect they are wiser and less arrogant than Western governments.
They are talking my three point plan. Much of Africa started doing it on their own. That is what is needed. So the timing is good for China to look better with little or no effort. Now it remains to be seen if this is just talk, if China has a hidden agenda (my guess) or if they just want to help the whole world prosper.
China seems very good at “getting things done”, but “the things” are those in their best interest and that interest is not human rights (as is demonstrated in China itself). In addition, reports I’ve heard from several of the areas being developed in Africa point out that the Chinese use their own workers and that any positive economic effect on the area is very limited. China has a lot of money and needs a lot of resources, which on the surface could look like a good combination for Africans and the development of their countries. I’m skeptical, however, if only because the Chinese are negotiating with entrenched African leaders who have a poor track record of sharing the wealth. Lastly, consider the source of criticism of the West: Paul Kagami. In a recent news report, Mr. Kagami doesn’t think much of free speech or dissenting voices in Ruwanda. Maybe some of the pollution Western nation’s have left behind in Africa is the desire for democracy and the citizens belief that the first duty of their governments is to protect human rights.
sorry Jodie, but china is not only in bed “entrenched African leaders who have a poor track record of sharing the wealth” the US does business with china than any African country……… the point is what they are offering- they come like any other business partners but without the finger pointing of the west – i’m better than u kind- it depends where u view the image from- if u think the US has a good record in terms of human right ask the prisoners in bagdad or guantanamo who have waited for their day in court in vain- but they claim they are God sent-
i think china has come a long way. and my opinion is that while we in africa nigeria especially) – should admire the way china is tackling its numerous problems, we should learn from them. investments are ok…but africans should stop begging for aid and learn from the admirable (yes, they are admirable wether we like to admit it or not) chinese.
I believe China can solve a lot more problems with countries through diplomacy. Even though China is a socialist country, they expect over 8% GDP for 2009. Additionally, it has two policies well known: a. It will not interfere in Sovereign nations internal affairs, and secondly it will not attack any sovereign nation. China has come a long over the past 60 years and continues developing its military service, producing most of all military equipment and I believe it can defend itself if attacked by other countries.
When I last visited Zimbabwe, there were a minute number of Chinese people, and today there are numerous Chinese and many have strong influence not only in commerce but also government. Yes, they do have a human rights problem, but under Pres Hu it is improving. Afterall, the country has over 1.3 billion people, and 75% live at the poverty level and the government now is subsidizing housing for the poor, and still provides funding to villages to insure people have food, place to live etc., in addition to free medical care.
What else do you expect China to do?They have trillions of dollars in foreign resereves. So instead of calling in the U.S. debt (and destroying their economy), it’s good long-term investing.
China has operated in the new Iran for the last twenty years. It hs been active in the upstream oil industry, road construction, commodities market, Metro and railway construction. Contracts are executed on schedule, pays promptly for exports and services rendered. What else could one want?
Bilateral annual Tehran, Beijing trade is worth approximately $15billion and rising. Cultural problems and clash of personlities could arise if Beijing clings to Communist idealogies.
I am not surprised at the positive attitude of China towards Africa. As a country emerging from closed economic system , it has learned a bitter lesson from it. Also, China has been able to wisely x-ray the attitude of west towards under developed economies and cashed in on the yawnings of these economies that have gone through long years of exploitation by west who first came as missionaries, then as traders and finally as imperialists. The interest of China in embracing the investiment opportunities in Africa is a welcome relief.
Remember, the west bequeathed to their colonies exploitation, divide and rule and corruption that has become the bane of African development. It is our hope that china will wipe aways tears in faces of Africans.
Great I am extremely happy China will be taking over for us in Africa now we can stop sending billions in aid to them. If the world looks to China to fix everything does that mean we Americans can just settle in and invest in our own country?
They may be great problem solvers, but, at what cost to the rest of the world and their own country? It seems like China is just the new, up and coming bully on the block. Death sentences were just handed down to a group of protest leaders in Xinjiang, which is a form of problem solving. It is an interesting contrast, to see the blending of communist concept application with capitalist focus. I am sure that many purists in China are rolling over and over in their beds and graves. Ruthless efficiency can be admired by those who do not run afoul of the stated course. Misery seems always to follow such single minded vision and lack of consideration for basic human life in the face of progress.
i don’t think president Paul Kagami was wrong in his observation. in fact i like to consider it a fair comment, but i don’t agree with him because investments alone are not, what Africans need right now. Africans as much, want freedom of speech, effective justice systems, rule of law and respect for human right in everyday living. interestingly, it is quite clear that china itself has not a very attractive record, when it comes to right issues especially human rights. it is therefore, not surprising that in African countries where china has very huge presence human right in those countries are thrown to the dogs. take for instance, Sudan and you will understand my point. so, to answer your question: honestly i doubt if china can help solve the host of human right problems in African countries it has presence, let alone solving the world’s problem.
Hi! 😀
Let me ask you, have they already solved their own issues in terms of human rights education and economic and social equality?
Until they don’t, I’m afraid the only thought left is that they do it due to their own interests, as well as another way of expanding their actios and, therefore, power. This situation is kind of familiar for me: Isn’t it what Venezuela’s president is trying to do here in Latin America, trying to poke his nose everywhere?
Cheers!
Its not fair to compare China with other country except Japan , korea and countries with ethnic Chinese government. The confucious culture alienate them from others. Harmony and order is instilled in their genes. What the west called human rights is called chaos to the Chinese. There are Chinese blogs translated into english. Google or ping to find them. You will be surprise at the free flow of dissenting voices. Only don’t create trouble or associate with outside groups.
I think the President of Rwanda is right about this and there must be concerted effort for Western governments and companies to invest rather than “aid”. How do you eplain a case where 60% of the budget is attached to “monitoring of aid?” What then, will be used for the purpose? This is neo-colonialism and disaster capitalism
The infrastructure that was built by colonial powers was neglected and therefore fell into disrepair ,instead of african rulers plundering their countries finances they should first address the needs of their own people.
Kigale should realise there is no such thing as free,they have to pay for it in one way or another.
It is always oversimplistic to classify anything as good or bad. China is clearly in Africa to do business, as are European and North American companies and governments. I have to say as an African that I do think it appropriate to call into question ethics and human rights abuses perpetrated by african governments, and to not contribute to exacerbating these as part of ‘making money’.
China is not a benign force, it is a force for generating its own wealth by establishing business in Africa. So it is inherently self-interested. The question is, will the businesses created provide ‘living wages’, good work conditions, promote environmentally and socially responsbile goods? Many in Africa may well be poor, but that does not mean that we deserve sub-standard places of employment.
At the moment the streets of Freetown and its beautiful coastline are flooded with Chinese manufactured plastic which does not biodegrade. All the Chinese made spare parts for the house break on a regular basis because they are poor quality. And the CHinese are now taking a source of income away from African women by manufacturing batik and tie-dye cloth with designs that are the intellectual property of African’s ‘artisans’….this is business!
When the blood was still running in the Santiago de Chile streets and democracy swept away by General Pinochet, China stepped right up and made a huge rice deal with the General. Mao is dead and changes made, but that basic approach is not. China takes care of China.
May be it is the turn of he chinese to exploit the resources of africa. china huingry fro resourcers and the world has lost its balancing act with china in their involvement in sudan and sri lanka and china being a super power we are all at their mercy indeed.God help the powerlesss.chinese bring heir man power like the europeans and judging from the retoric of african leaders the ground has already shifted from eurpean dominace to chinese dominance,
A world problem solver? That’s a sham. Give me ten lists or rather one of any problem that China has solved. I don’t seem to remember any in a million years. I believe there is nothing new China is offering; since there is rapid industrialisation in China, naturally its expected that a country colonize to reach this precious stage of development. They are simply obeying the status quo or rather the rule.
I am disappointed the all bloggers today, look at any good from China, which i haven’t. When a country’s time to attain the high level development reaches, exploitation sets in, so neo-colonialism is setting in. You doubt this: look at Europe. What happened to Great Britain, France, Germany, Spain, and others? How did they industrialize and sustain it? If i remember my history lessons well, one reason they scrambled and partitioned Africa, was to feed the insatiable industries they had.
Who doesn’t say he/she hasn’t seen China tinted towards this, since Africa is where you need to go to develop? You don’t need am encyclopedia for this, just look at history pages. I pity Kagame, for i didn’t expect that ignorance from a ‘high calibre’ man like him or is it? I’d like to think of his statement as sarcastic, intended to wound European and the general western powers.
pliz read again what president Kagame said- he said they are here and it is upto us africans to be exploited or fairly trade with them – take example of ma friend from freetown saying china overfloods market with plastic goods- its we african who prefer cheap types- china supply’s the whole world- if we order plastic, we will get plastic!!!!!!!!!! if a minister chooses to ask for KITU KIDO rather than the quality of the road being built, blame the african not china———-if we ask for quality we get quality with no strings attached- i think this is what president Kagame meant………
Saying is not doing.
g
China, like other communist countries, is not a very good innovator. They copy things well. The Soviets basically had to steal all sorts of technology to get to where they got. The infamous AK-47, the most reliable and commonly used assault rifle, is not a Soviet Invention. It’s a copy of the german StG-44 that was invented during WW2. The Russian spaceprogram was very heavily dependent upon german scientists (so was the US). Their early jets were all stolen engine designs. Their claim to fame in the 1950s was reverse engineering B-29s that had landed in Soviet territory during WW2. They had this huge may day Celebration with their version of the B-29 flying over, as it was some accomplishment to copy a US design many years after it was already obsolete. They have stolen all sorts of designs, etc. China has been the same way. They don’t innovate anything, they just take other people’s ideas and maybe add some improvements or make it more cheaply. But if you don’t innovate, you don’t solve problems.
What a remarkable transformation! China has become a potent mediator and is showing its clout as more and more nations turn to it as a problem solver and power broker. China’s trade and investment in Africa show its long-term objectives. It has identified Africa as a continent full of potential. It has learnt the lessons of Japan and is building its power base in a very ambitious ways. China is also trying to tackle climate change in a very positive way e;g. green cars.
China may be seen by some African leaders as a problem solver, but China’s move into Africa represents nothing more than the beginning of its own outsourcing of jobs for Chinese formerly preformed by Chinese people. Will new African employees of Chinese companies face dickensian working conditions? Will African workers churn out more toys full of lead and more powdered milk full of poison while being paid miserable wages that will not pull them out of poverty?
I am worried about China and nuclear power. If China builds all the nuclear power plants it says it is intending to, where and how is it going to deal with the waste? Command economies with limitations on the press have a terrible record for dealing with radioactive waste (look at the Soviet block, and their shorter life-spans and high number of deaths from cancer).
I fear because of systemic corruption that it is only a matter of time till the Chinese nuclear waste gets spread through the oceans and the poorer equally corrupt countries of the world, eventually spreading to the west….
Listening on air. Remember this, China is still ruled by a committee that hand picks it’s successors with the sole intent of keep the status quo of the old ‘Revolutionary’ government in place. It is likely that they are being forced to accept that to dominate in international affairs, you need to play the game the way the others do. They are starting to embrace capitalism, democracy is next, and harder. Will the committee turn their fate over to the people?
anyone thinking china does this for the good of africa must have some very very pink glasses they are looking through. china is a ruthless growing economy and the african leaders who jump into bed with china may rue their descission at one point.
China is obviously not a problem solver. I am particularly upset, how they support the brutal Burmese regime! In case of Burma they make the situation clearly worse. They should really change their policy on Burma!!!
It seems to me China’s ability to take the lead in solving problems stems from its system of central control. When it identifies a solution to a problem, assuming the solution is valid, it can simply issue a mandate to put it into effect
They’re not dumb. They look at the world and what happens to countries that take leadership roles. They see how they become magnets for hatred and blame from other nations and groups. They may well decide that the supposed benefits of leadership are not worth it.
Nevertheless, criticism of the nations that lead must always be studied and taken seriously in case it is true, as it isn’t possible to know what is the right thing to do for all concerned all the time.
Another on air question. Does China realize they are developing cheap labor to compete with them? I think so. So, what are they looking to gain?
Listening to some of your callers it would seem that China is just a benevolent investor. While I do support the model of development in Africa that China has been working under, I do not believe that this is done out of some ideological umbrella, especially when human rights abuses still persist inside China. Let’s be honest in this conversation, how can u begin to call China a ‘problem-solving superpower’ when one of the central issues facing modern China, if not the most central, the issue of Tibetan Independence has not come close to being solved. Until China deals successfully with its own internal human rights issues, it may be seen as very pragmatic abroad but never a true fixer of problems in my opinion.
What about Tibet independence? Like USA and UK hold on its colonies . China will hold on to their Himalayan great wall for their security. At least China developed Tibet and take care of the people. A good gauge of happiness is to see the children smiling and well fed. How much has USA done for Puerto rico. A state outside the United States. Build military bases maybe.
What I would have said if I had gotten one last comment in during the broadcast:
Single-party states are great for early development, or extensive growth (throwing more resources at problems), but they tend to vastly underperform to democracies once you enter the higher-order territory of intensive growth (more innovation-based). Why? More personal freedom equals more ideas equals more competition, and that beats a bunch of guys on top sitting around the table trying to solve complex problems on their own.
So it’s all a matter of the complexity of where you’re at in development: if you’re still all about more more more infrastructure, steel production, manufacturing etc., then a single-party state can do quite well. But it can’t keep up once you move into more complex development. Prime example? USSR.
My point: don’t extrapolate China’s “superior” model beyond its modest roots. China won’t make it to 2035 as a single party state, unless it stays as relatively poor as it is today, with hundreds of millions of its citizens living on less than $2/day. If it develops the rest of its population like it has on the coast, then that’ll be one big, demanding middle-class unlikely to stand for single-party rule–just like what happened in Japan and South Korea and Indonesia and is close to happening in Malaysia.
So, sure, the China model can work for Africa in the near term, but the long term? There you’d have to show me a large rich country with a single party state, and none exist.
Seems most people have forgotten what China has done to Tanzania that has become a chinese satellite.
Most African leaders are despots just like the authoritative and arbitrary communist rulers of China. They are working hand in glove for exploiting further and stealing from the African masses.
African leaders like Kagame will definitely flatter China because the latter will help them stay in power for life like Mugabe before reducing the country to mendicity, threatened by famine reduced to slavery with the help of the Chinese militarycum skilled workers.
If anyone is wondering why China is interested in Africa. African countries played the decisive role in helping China get into the United Nation and ousting taiwan from the United Nation.
Its pay day for Africa.
I think, Africans know what’s best for their nations, this is the 21st Century! Originally, Africans prefer to live and make business with Europeans or Americans, but as these nations still do have prejudice towards Africans, and still think that they could do whatever they want with Africa, the vast majority of Africans see Chinese involvement in a positive spirit. Besides, the West is prefers to engage itself in the Middle East and Central Asia, where it has found fellow Caucasians.
I follow Chinese news media regularly, to tell you the truth, I have never read bad news reported or written about Africa and Africans over there. And this is very important to the current generation of Africans.
Honestly speaking, many Africans are tired of hearing this “Human Rights” talk. They know that nobody cares about Africans, but Africans themselves. How many Africans are treated inhumanely in European and Arab countries? Africa and Africans are changing for the better, now it’s Europeans and other non-Africans who need to change — for their own good.
I support what ayotunde ayoko said in his entry somewhere above. Africa is not poor. Africa has been poorly managed. The western style of assistance for decades has quite obviously failed or at least has not brought any positive results or benefits to africans. Africans have every right (now more then ever before) to de-emphasise america and the west and to look more eastwards, especially to china. Western aids (in the name of humanity – only a fanciful slogan with no real benefits?) creates dependancy and even adiction. In contrast direct investments in africa by chinese enterprises will arm the africans with the means to grow and with time, to prosper. Jobs will be created to say the least and pride of africans can be salvaged. That could provide the africans with a much needed boost to stand up and move on and not just to sit around waiting for the next plane to parachute (I shan’t use the word “drop”) food supply down from the sky.
“Donald” has mentioned his worry about China and nuclear power, particularly in relation to nuclear waste “disposal”
This is a very valid worry indeed.
The world did not seem to pay much attention to this, when one of China’s provinces experienced horrendous earthquakes and landslides. It was a province (Sichuan) which hosts several nuclear facilities.
Apparently, China uses the areas of indigenous peoples, such as in Tibet, to dump their nuclear wastes.
The whole issue is shrouded in secrecy.
Are we supposed to believe that China, with its current murky record of secrecy and of bureaucratic corruption, is a good example of a “responsible” nuclear power?
Is it possible that we should all move back into Africa, in order to assure our own positions in the world, if it were to come to the point where one nation must colonize another to get the resources that are required to run a modern state? I say the “strong” survive and the weak fall by the wayside. Our nations need to step up and do what must be done before China takes all the blocs.
wow
Perhaps China and Africa are yet to become fully acquainted
with each other. It is true that the west has spoiled and often
crippled Africa with aid however, investing for the most part
means doing business with incredibly corrupt and often
brutal leaders and regimes. Is that a good idea? I really
hope that Africa discovers its self and stops whining.
They will find that China is for China in the end.
Definitely. For years West has neglected Africa. It threw some peanuts, thought it did a good job, patted itself on its back & started preaching the world on several issues. Who would listen? The world realized the truth. Slowly the world is slipping away from the West’s grip & China is utilizing this opportunity. West, why don’t you revisit your work, preachings & strategy?
The criticisms against the West’s contributions in developing and improving the quality of life in Africa, imply that all the woes of Africa apparently springs from the West’s involvement in that continent, forgetting the devastating rules of despots like Mugabe, Idi Amin Dada etc.
I worked as a teacher in Zimbabwe and was surprised to admire the extent of development of that country and the improvement in the quality of living of the blacks. They enjoyed a better life, had plenty to eat.
Now the proof of Mugabe’s government is the blatant famine threatening millions of people in a country that once boasted to be the bread basket of Africa, feeding countries like Zambia and Mozambique.
I have written a book entitled ” A Leap into Africa” read it to understand the way Zimbabweans lived before 2000.
Even China has many problems which are learn from other advanced countries(so called “copy”from somebody’ words). But China has no imperialistic ambitions and interferes other countries’ politics. If someone do not know the truth of something, it is better to say nothing, the same to me. About the issue of Xinjiang and Tibet, I only know that because they are minorities in China, their children have more benefits in schooling, university than Han people, their children have much less stress than Han student because they can enroll in a perfect university with a lower score and after they graduate from the university they can get a job easier. It will never happened on Han students…
I am so confused that why there is always something not good happen. Let us advocate peace and harmony.
Give China the benifit of the doubt, at least they have a better idea of the third worlds problems, having gone through poverty, over population and colonialism.
Unlike the Western contries who are only experienced in exploitation.
There is nothing new in this. The Chinese stumped up the investment and know-how for railways in Eastern & Western Central Africa decades ago when the West would do nothing. Watch the they don’t take up the white man’s burden & knock him out of his markets.
Paul
RE “” Rwandan President Paul Kagame.”The Chinese bring what Africa needs: investment and money for governments and companies, “”
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—————- Don’t know the first thing about Mr. Kagame, but I can’t help but note that “the African people” are conveniently excluded as beneficiaries in his little rave about China.
Might be Mr. Kagame has made himself a frontrunner for the next nominal guv’nor of Tibet with those comments.
Chinese are in the middle of a vast experiment that has left their mentors, the Western economic powers running on their own fumes. Can’t help but think the whole thing is going to implode if the economic model is so poor as to leave the world in such a terrible lurch as happened with massive global expansion leading to global warming spikes, global terrorism and global fraud.on unprecedented scale.
Ps on my last, I can think of two western multinational corporations that leave a polluted mess wherever they operate in Africa, so the President is right on that one.
“China, like other communist countries, is not a very good innovator.”
@Steve
Wasn’t communist ideology itself imported from Germany as well? You are saying, dictatorship can’t produce anything on its own. How come, the NAZIS, one of the most brutal dictatorships in history, were able to produce everything and export it to the aforementioned states?
@metusalem
well said. BRAVO