These are the bushes where some of the migrants are hiding, in hope of latching onto the next lorry to England.
24
Sep
09
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BBC World Have Your Say 
Kind of interesting how the US gets criticized for how it handles illegal immigrants, where they can work, they get free healthcare, etc, meanwhile in “liberal” europe they keep them in camps.
For the 1st time in my life Steve, I happen to agree with you ! ;)…
Yes, you are very much correct with your remarks…….
~Dennis Junior~
I could not have said it better Steve. It’s quite a double standard isn’t it?
Steve, the migrants weren’t “kept” in a camp, they were literally camping out until they could find a way to illegally enter Great Britain. Illegal immigrants work and receive health care in many places in Europe, though there is growing resentment about their growing numbers, and about the immigrants’ failure to adapt to life in Europe (as in recent “honor” killings by Muslim immigrants in Italy.)
How bad does life have to be in your own country that someone is willing to live this way somewhere else? It’s just too horrible.
Not everyone who makes the claim is actually seeking refuge and not everyone turning him or her away is cruelly motivated. However, when people must act like animals to survive, it isn’t ttheirs, but everyone else’s humanity that is diminished.
g
What?? Steve and Lubna agreeing – what is the world coming too…. another lovely success story from World Have Your Say….. 🙂 🙂
Steve and Lubna agreeing about something? There’s hope for world peace!
To be fair, every nation must find ways to deal with illegal immigration. The world as a whole must find a vision that will help solve the problems in the world that lead to illegal immigration in the first place.
California is home to the world, but each one of us came one at a time. My mother came because all her boyfriends were blown away in WWII and Scotland was too painful. In Los Angeles, women from every part of the world have their stories of pain and starting over. For the hardhearted, perhaps this isn’t a good enough reason to open your borders. Each war has refugees, each rape a reason to leave and start over. Hunger strikes every day. People move. Such is our human life. Borders are leftovers from each old war. Culture is dynamic.
Free health care for the recently arrived would stop epidemics at the border, but we do not have it here. Illegal immigrants are not eligible for most programs, particularly higher education.
Free health care will attract illegal immigrants. It is the problem, not the solution. The solution is to help them at home if their country is willing. Also, what epidemic? I have never heard of any epidemic that was not spread by legitimate trade. If I am wrong, please let me know.
They’re not difficult to find. So why do the French authorities allow them to ‘hide’ in the open?
@Steve: unless specific European governments have criticised US immigration policy (which I think is highly improbable given how European diplomacy works, unlike the way US Presidents keep exhorting the EU to admit Turkey as a member) and unless the same governments are keeping illegals in camps (which is not the case in this instance, as Donnamarie pointed out) I don’t think you have anything to complain about. And Europe is not ‘liberal’: it’s political establishment is; it’s people (with a few exceptions, like the Dutch)aren’t.
24. 09. 09
Dear Ros,
In my opinion the chances of success is fifty fifty. As long as the USA retains its ranking as a super power many a programme will find success. The day the U S becomes one of the two or three equally powerful nothing will workout. Each such power will forge separate alliances with the countries they can get in their camp and attempts for domination over the other(s) will commence and chances for a bigger and more cataclysmic THIRD WORLD WAR will increase manifold. The U S superiority in arms and ammunition is a must for the world as whole. As long as it is in leadership its present allies in Europe and Asia will continue to be with it as a deterrent for hegemony seeking rising stars in Asia. How long can the U S maintain its current status as the leader will depend on its military superiority. I’m an Indian and the only country where I can live and lead a life is my motherland but to avoid a catastrophe of arms race and concomitant war and destruction the U S being a true democracy should remain as the superpower.
In response to Steve’s comment, I guess I fail to see his point. Is the U.S. government somehow not supposed to be criticized for the way it handles immigration? The way we handle immigration is absurd, and it most certainly should be criticized. The Bush administration sat on its hands for 8 years and essentially passed the problem on to Obama. And now, the only reason the issue of immigration has fallen off the radar screen is the recession in the U.S. With unemployment so high, the influx of immigrants has fallen off, if not reversed itself. Many people have left to go back to their country of origin.
with due respect I would like to say that most of those who introduce themselves as Afghanies are Pakistanies who takes advantage of the situation in Afghanistan and uses it as an excuse to get an asylum to other countries such as England. you can tell by the accent when they speak english. I am an Afghan who lived in pakistan most of my life and have seen pakistanies going to the UN and saying that they are Afghanies to get to another western country. I can 100% tell the difference in the accent difference.
I feel a deep sympathy for these migrants although I admit that it must be difficult for nations like France & Britain to deal with this situation with so many people seeking asylum.The threat to internal security is a serious concern for them.
I am so thrilled to hear from these young gentlemen. You are so well spoken after such trauma. Welcome to the WHYS conversation. Your voices are like water in a desert to me.
So how have the so called developed countries become developed? Years of colonization and plundering from the third world countries.
I wish there was a more human approach to dealing with this. Amnesty is the least thing these countries could do.
Barry from UK… asked why is it only men who leave their families and try to coem to UK?
Like seriously, does he think they are coming there for the Fish n chips and Chicken tikka…
Wake up BARRY… the world is falling apart.. and those who can help should do all they can…
I second that emotion, Nora.
Yeah, US and UK’s military budget is probably several multiples than that needed to accommodate the ‘illegal’ immigrants!
Men, women and children have fled dangerous conditions, and sought better lives all over Europe. They are many of the doctors, nurses and social workers – providing, not taking – precious human resources.
Poor, war-torn countries lose millions of professionals to rich countries every year.
Spoiled right-wing complainers should appreciate what immigrants bring to Europe – while asking for so little in return.
I am sorry, I am at work so I will write here and there. English citizens are worried that these Afghan boys will go to their country and take advantage of their resources such as health care, housing and other benifits such as welfare. Don’t worry, they are not trying to go there to steal from you. they will do your dirty jobs that you wont do for cheaper price. immigrants like them work like dogs to make a living. they work double shifts and work over night when you are sleeping like a baby. Please dont call them cowards because Afghanistan is where it is because of the foreign countries like Russia, England, USA and the Evil one Osama. Have sympathy and please dont talk trash to them. thank you
Men, women and children have fled dangerous conditions, and sought better lives all over Europe. They are many of the doctors, nurses and social workers – providing, not taking – precious human resources.
Poor, war-torn countries lose millions of professionals to rich countries every year.
Spoiled right-wing complainers should appreciate what immigrants bring to Europe – while asking for so little in return.
from Kyle Brown in Toronto, Canada.
(I USED TO LIVE IN LONDON, UK. I was appalled at the right-wing jingoism, which ignores the benefits of immigration.)
capitalism works for companies when they compete with each other. why shouldn’t we welcome the immigrants and have them compete with other workers so that businesses get the best workers? it is like capitalism of the workers.
I’m from Berlin, Germany, and must admit that the treatment of refugees here is at least as bad as in France and the UK. I would like to express my excuses to the young people from Afghanistan and Iran who took the distress of such a long and exhausting travel and leaving their families behind just to find that the people in the wealthier so called ‘liberal’ coutries don’t treat them with the hospitality and respect they deserve. I am deeply sorry for that and think it is the responsibility of wealthier people to help out people who need it. I have been in Afghanistan recently and experienced a hospitality by people who were way poorer by material means than we in western Europe. I wish we were able to show the same hospitality – especially since we have the material means. I wish you all the best for your travel, your future and your families!!! Good luck!
Galeano put it best:
“Christopher Columbus couldn’t discover America, because he didn’t have a visa or even a passport.
“Pedro Alvares Cabral couldn’t get off the boat in Brazil, because he might have been carrying smallpox, measles, the flu or other foreign plagues.
“Hernan Cortes and Francisco Pizarro never even began the conquest of Mexico and Peru, because they didn’t have working papers.
“Pedro de Alvarado was turned away from Guatemala, and Pedro de Valdivia couldn’t even enter Chile, because they didn’t bring proof of a clean record.
“And the Mayflower pilgrims were sent back to sea from the coast of Massachusetts: the immigration quotas were full.”
There was no welfare state back then
I think that is a historical problem caused by the the great powers over the two last centuries so its a delicated situation, but i believe that those peoples needs help and understanding coz they are homeless of the world.
If countries like the US, UK & France want to feel free to invade, occupy & colonize other countries then the US, UK, France have the obligation to take these people/refuges in, who’s lives have been left in shambles as a result of Western policies.
Vladi
California, USA
Why aren’t women taking this trip?
I heard people ask why women are not making this trip. The answer is obvious to anyone who thinks about it: women have a high chance of being raped or sold into prostitution. Men can relocate, get jobs that let them send money back to their families and are at a lower risk of being raped and sold into prostitution.
If you were going to have yourself smuggled into another country by underworld criminals you would be taking a chance that the smugglers might just kill you and keep your money. Would you want your wife or daughter in the hands of those kinds of people?
– Joel
California, USA
@ Adam – I can’t speak for Afghanis, but they may have the same problems as migrants from other areas. Women and seeking to migrate illegally through the Mexico border sometimes get raped or kidnapped, or sometimes the traffikers will demand more money, and if they don’t have it they are sold into prostitution. It’s not that much more safe for men, either.
Hello to all of you in the car park there in France. I’m a teacher who is out of work for the moment due to budget cuts in schools. I’ve had many students from Somalia and Liberia who’ve fled to the US. We have plenty of resources here, the problem is twofold a) we spend over half our national budget on war and defense, and the debt used to pay for that machine b) using our military we create instability in other countries, thus causing people to migrate here
The solution is three fold, a) spend less on military b) create stability by ending our occupations c) welcome what migrants come to us, we have been proud of our melting pot in the past, the hard working migrants are what built the foundation of America, and our attention to law means that labor was not exploited.
The lives of migrants are heartbreaking, thank you for the compassion to talk about this, and give them voices, even if they struggle with english, their message is clear.
It was touching to hear that migrants from Aghanistan who had the opportunity to settle in the prosperous Gulf countries preferred instead to aim for Europe because humans rights are respected here and not there. Let us just hope once they do make it to the land of human rights they resist the urge to carry out honor killings when their daughters or sisters want to be free to choose their own husbands !
Today’s show clearly illustrates the need to do something about the illegal migration problem globally; YES, globally because it has been a global issue for a long time. There has to be a way for nations to come up with a solution that benefits them, such as taking as many of these people and putting them to work in some low-level jobs to start off with. Fill some sector that is in need and maybe plug some holes in various nations social economy. Just a quick thought.
i mean what is going on in France and europe is awful i’m sure that it is getting cold now or soon enough, at least put up temperary housing shelters for these men mostly children, don’t just let them camp out like that….
Excellent radio. Brave.
So many heartless people. How can someone question the motives of the helpless and homeless is beyond me.
You are right Steve. Why no one is criticizing Europe? Oh, if it was our country (the U.S.) every one would be up in arms against us. We do not ill-treat them like this. We would at least feed them, clothe and shelter them.
Middle Eastern countries? Forget it. They brand us as “Satan.” But they allow their own races to come to “Satan’s country.” They don’t give asylum to these people from arab countries. Isn’t amazing?
Human nature. If you’re desperate enough, you will do and say anything to survive. I’ve been homeless twice. So I know from first hand experience.
I can only agree with one thing, which is we can only be progressive if we can find people that can help us achieve it.
Migrants should not be classified as second class citizens, most migrants are deserving migrants. Like for example Skill experts and scholars and other experts in a given field are more likely a good set of migrants that can be selected.
Countries must understand that some countries has been successful to this kind of process, that is why I really appreciate the Equal Employment Opportunity process because it gives everyone the chance to compete, what is important is how you can show your skills and how it can help the company sustain the business.
Most in the UK would agree that aid should be given to those fleeing persecution, however the problem is that we can no longer afford to take in people without first vetting their situation.
This comes down to the harsh fact that we are a small island with an aging population and an ailing economy. Our housing stock is in short supply, the NHS is suffering terminal decline and according to the Times we now have more money going out in benefits that coming in, in income tax.
All of this gives support to far right organisations who exploit the situation by feeding off the resentment of our work class communities.
I think personally all the developing countries could do a lot more for third world countries, but trying to stuff people into small countries that are already bulging at the seams is not the answer.
Suggest a giant airlift. America and Russia use their giant aircraft fleets to drop all illegal immgrents from Europe, and the U.S. by parachute into Iran.
In this manner Iran will be so “in over their heads” with immagrants all wanting food water and a place to fight for freedom, that they will not have the time to devote to building nukes.
They can fill their good hearts with sincere efforts to convert all the Mexicans to become true believers in Allah.
This would all seem a far worrthier goal than building nukes.
troop Oregon Coast
People who have already destroyed their own country by actions or by inactivity have no right to go to another country. asylum ?? They travel over 10-20 safe countries to get to the UK. My understanding of this is they do NOT seek asylum but want the facilities that the UK will provide. True asylum seekers would be happy with one of the other countries. Sorry but i have no sympathy for them. They lost all my sympathy while passing through all the safe countries to get to Calais then the UK.
I hope France deports them – it will not happen. Like in the US i think that armed border guards are useful. A shoot to kill policy is reasonable for people trying to enter illegally.
Shoot to kill? Wow.
I’m fed up with reading this toffee about migrants. When my ancestors arrived in this benighted island in the 11th Century,they came in ships and armed to the teeth and it was all legal. If they had not, I would not be here and neither would millions of others. I rest my case.
Living in these conditions are really deplorable. The major issue that the broadcast hasn’t tackled is the issue of illegal human trafficking. There are global regimes that are being paid thousands of dollars to be dumped to bring people to the UK. Where is the debate on this issue?
If I can’t get health care in the States because of stupid “pre-existing” conditions, can I come to the U.K. as a refugee? The U.N. Declaration of Human Rights say that healh care is a fundamental human right. What is millions of Americans emigrated? What would happen then?