Talking Points: 6th May

radio-djA US radio DJ says he’s going to sue the British government because they’ve banned him from the UK. He says he’s being compared “with mass murderers who killed Jews on buses”. He also says the Koran is a book of hate but doesn’t think he promotes violence.

In the US there’s even a campaign to keep a Free Speech Tunnel which had graffiti saying Barack Obama should be shot.

Where is the line between free speech versus hate speech? Is better to let people speak but ignore them?

A UN report is blaming Israel for killing people in UN buildings in Gaza

Israel’s Defense Minister says they “have the most moral army in the world.”

But this man is not so sure. Is Israel’s army the most moral in the world? Can any army be moral?

The Turkish President said the attack that killed 44 people at a wedding party was primitive and the Prime Minister says no traditions can justify it.

And honour killings have reached record levels in turkey

Honour means different things to different people… Is the idea of ‘honour’ over-rated?

18 Responses to “Talking Points: 6th May”

  1. 1 John in Salem
    May 6, 2009 at 13:14

    In the U.S. we have freedom of speech which includes the right to make a total ass of ourselves and everyone else has the freedom to ignore us. Most of the time it works pretty good.

    A moral army is an oxymoron.

    Honor is an aspect of character and killing someone to defend it shows you have neither character nor honor.

  2. 2 Albert Kirui
    May 6, 2009 at 13:28

    Hi world have your say My name is Albert Kirui, in Kericho Western Kenya, East Africa. I totally disagree with the decision of the British government to blacklist Mr. Michael Savage for his opinions. I do not agree with him in many of his opinions just like not so many of us do not agree with so many far right politicians but in as much as we do not accept these peoples’ opinions I do believe that everyone should be given a right to express what they believe in. At the end of the day we reserve the right to either choose to give him our ears or not. I do believe that free speech becomes hate speech as soon as those expressing them show an intent to carry out violence or to use force to enforce their ideas. Just a mere opinion about Islam, or autism should not warrant anyone to be blacklisted. I do believe that the British government should be sued for deformation because in my opinion those whose names ought to have been released as blacklisted were not like two leaders of a violent Russian skinhead gang. Thank you.

  3. May 6, 2009 at 14:19

    Koran and Torah, it’s all about compassion, mercy and patience. Arabs, Jews, Persians, Afghans, Pakistanis, let’s get down to brass tacks because we must learn to live side by side.

  4. 4 VictorK
    May 6, 2009 at 14:35

    In 1596 Robert Devereux, at the head of an English army, captured and occupied the Spanish city of Cadiz. He did not tolerate excesses of any kind by his soldiers to civilians or to property. Catholic churches were not desecrated. Priests were unmolested. Devereux even arranged for several thousand nuns to receive safe transport from the peninsula to the Spanish mainland. His Spanish adversaries were amazed by the chivalry of this Protestant ‘heretic’. As well they might be: only a few years earlier the same Spaniards had attempted to invade, conquer, and forcibly re-Catholicise England.

    Four hundred years later another army conducted itself very differently. The Serbs – themselves the aggressors – would routinely capture civilians, bind their hands behind their backs, line them up alongside trenches they’d often been forced to dig, and then put a bullet in each of their skulls. In addition, mosques were targeted for destruction, while the pride of Serb manhood vaunted their prowess in special camps in which thousands of Bosnian women and girls were systematically raped.

    ‘Can any army be moral?’ The question’s not worth asking, unless you really believe that the idea of honour is ‘over-rated.’

  5. 5 Jen
    May 6, 2009 at 15:30

    Where is the line between free speech versus hate speech? Is better to let people speak but ignore them?

    People should have a right to state their opinions. What’s wrong is when someone decides to act on violence. In times when I disagree with people, I just let it go in one ear and out the other; as they are usually basing their statements on misinformation…

    I think the free speech tunnel should be left alone! It’s like the postsecret project. It gives people the opportunity to say what they really want to. People should be able to moderate their own thoughts. Anything else would be dictatorship.

    Re: Is Israel’s army an honorable one?

    They offer aid and medical care to Palestinians at the same time they are trying to take up for themselves………I think that is pretty honorable. As for being responsible for civilian killings. Those fighting for a cause need to stand on their own; not take innocent people as shields; especially women and children!

    That’s why they went into the UN buildings; so that Israel would seem like the bad guy!

    • 6 Jim Newman
      May 17, 2009 at 18:09

      Hello again
      And hello Jen. I wrote an answer to both of your points but I think what I wrote to illustrate the effect of hate speeches was a bit too crude to print so I’ll leave that part out.
      First of all I said that in my opinion most of the speeches given by Bush, Cheney and Candoleeza Rice were hate speeches because they offended my own personal moral values and they provoked massive violence and suffering.
      Speech is speech and how you feel about any particular speech depends on your own situation and your moral values.
      My point in all that is to say that if people say things that are threatening to you or your group it is not wise to ignore them.
      Many people listened to Hitler and understood what he was about and escaped – others perished.
      I’m afraid I have to differ with you about the honorability of the zionist army. I followed the massacre in Gaza through reports by Aljazeera, the only news agency on the spot, and some of the reports were harrowing. One report described how the zionists asked some Palestinians to shelter in a house which they subsequently shelled and then prevented any aid from arriving for four days. In another incident a zionist sniper shot a woman and her child when asked whether they were in fact carrying explosives the zionist spokesperson answered that they didn’t check.
      I find it very difficult to see anything honorable in such behaviour.

  6. 7 Morf
    May 6, 2009 at 16:23

    I heard Mr Savage for the first time yesterday. I was amazed by his hostility, name calling and his refusal to adhere to even the basics of civil conversation – in fact he was so self-absorbed that, when the conversation didn’t go his way, he literally hung up on the person interviewing him.

    I would never want him in my home.

    I marvel that, supposedly, he is the third most popular radio talk show host in America. He is shrill and hateful and profits from his manipulation of the worst of human nature.

    Personally I’d like to see him banned from the airwaves entirely.

  7. 8 Dennis Junior
    May 6, 2009 at 17:23

    Re: Michael Savage….Good Luck on suing Jacqui Smith and the United Kingdom government regarding the banishment from the country for your bigotted remarks and evil comments against…..gays in particular.

    ~Dennis Junior~

  8. 9 Ken
    May 6, 2009 at 18:25

    Mr. Savage’s commentary is unsurpassed for its venomous hatred and bigotry. He seems unable or unwilling to distinguish between vicious acts of violence and those who deliberately incite rage in others who may commit such acts.

    I host a weekly commentary program on a radio station that also carries Mr. Savage’s show, and I am frequently embarrassed to be associated with him even indirectly. Despite my wholesale rejection of his views, prospective interview guests routinely refuse to return phone calls to me just because of that association.

    Dear Cousins, it is your country and I do not blame you one bit for banning him. His purported outrage is utterly inconsistent with his invective against immigrants to the US.

    Ken Clark

  9. 10 Luci Smith
    May 6, 2009 at 19:29

    Since I live in Denmark, I have this idea about free speech: I grew up in Texas and I think that free speech ought to be moderated. I do not believe that the Danish cartoons did any good to anyone, because they were a deliberate provocation by a small-town newspaper that wanted to put itself on the map.
    Blatantly disrespecting other people, including their religion is not in my opinion a good thing to do in public, unless you want to get called up for it. I am not a member of a church, but I am brought up to try to not step on other people’s toes – including those who are believers.
    I only wish that the Danish politician who is spewing out hate to minorities and immigrants, Pia Kjaersgaard, would be denied entry to Denmark! She wants to invite the Dutch filmmaker who was refused entry to the U.K. to some kind of congress in Denmark.

    I wish that people would quit confusing free speech with hate mongering. I think that the U.K. is very civilized in refusing people the right to enter the country, since I always find people in Great Britain to be very polite and I prefer being in polite places to places where people behave rudely.

  10. 11 Luci Smith
    May 6, 2009 at 19:35

    Please do not call those killlings of women honor killings, since they have nothing to do with honor, but are more some misguided person’s idea that they own a woman and can kill her or force her to commit suicide. NO person owns another person!

  11. 12 Ken
    May 6, 2009 at 20:56

    All nations with constitutionally protected free speech also draw limits around it. For example, one may not falsely cry “Fire!” in a crowded theatre. In no case does a right to free speech entitle an individual to incite hostile action against any person or group, nor does it impart a right of entry to any other nation.

  12. 13 globalcomedy
    May 7, 2009 at 01:32

    I work in various aspects of media (radio, TV, newspapers, blogs, etc.). So I know a little bit about libel and slander laws. And, corporate media politics.

    Talk radio in the States is controlled by the neocon corporate media. The ONLY reason that these idiots are on the air is because hate speech makes millions of dollars. If Savage really believes in “free speech”, how come Code Pink anti-war protesters are censored by the same MSM that pays him extremely well? Why doesn’t he criticize Israel for their apartheild treatment of Palestinians? Because (a), he’s Jewish. And (b), he would be blackballed by the MSM and never work again.

    Do you realize that if I wrote and posted this from my office, I could be sacked? So much for “free speech.”

  13. 14 globalcomedy
    May 7, 2009 at 01:40

    Clear Channel (Savage’s employer) is one of the biggest media corporations in the States. And recently, they’ve been cutting a HUGE number of staff nationally.

    But in all of thes redundancies, are ANY right-wing hate speech presenters being sacked? No. What does that say about Stateside MSM? If you’re a progressive host, you’re severly limited in what you can say and do. If you’re a neocon, you have complete freedom to trash anything considered “liberal.”

    And, since there’s no Fairness Doctrine (equal time for both sides), nobody will touch you. In addition, you can make megamillions of dollars a year. How much does Jonathan Ross make (6 million quid a year)? Limbaugh makes 80 million quid.

  14. 15 Jennifer
    May 7, 2009 at 14:26

    RE: But in all of thes redundancies, are ANY right-wing hate speech presenters being sacked? No. What does that say about Stateside MSM? If you’re a progressive host, you’re severly limited in what you can say and do. If you’re a neocon, you have complete freedom to trash anything considered “liberal.”

    Two words about this:

    Carrie Prejean

    Something so simple as stating your belief is that marriage should be between a man and a woman is considered hate speech. No, that’s not; that’s trying to dictate to the majority a belief.

    No, anyone with right-wing seeming ideas or beliefs are made to be ignorant, racist, religious freaks, anything derogatory you can think of. I think liberals get mad because they don’t have anyone cool on their side!

    The media has a political affiliation and they are liberal! 🙂

  15. 16 Banky
    May 8, 2009 at 03:34

    Savage is simply spewing savagery and aggression from his reptilian brain , and this brings him big bucks because it resonates with many humans. Most social relations are carried on from very old survival programmes in the reptile brain that we still share with crocs, lizards and other reptiles. The difference between us and them is that we have mammalian neural programmes and also neocortex which can , if pressed, reason things in an unprogrammed way. many cultivated, civilised people opt for social protocol that somewhat inhibits the influence of the reptile within us, that keeps us preoccupied with aggression and sex. Savage may believe it is cute to do what he does , and I even doubt he has the faintest idea twhere his motivation comes from. I was tempted to “flame” on him from my own lower brain , but do i want to roll in that mess with him??? Naw. Don’t think so. Thank god for the generally great British manners and social intelligence.

  16. May 9, 2009 at 12:22

    This man is an idiot. Nevertheless, the wise and the idiot should be allowed in all circumstances to speak freely.

  17. May 13, 2009 at 18:51

    In the US, freedom of speech ends when someone shouts “FIRE” in a crowded Theatre. It is in the U.S constitution.
    Michael Savage should be be put away because of what he is preaching -Hate. When someone in a powerful position, in the media in this case, preaches and incites hate, all he/she is doing is shouting f’fire’ in a crowded Theatre.

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