Ahmadinejad again

Whether you support him or not, few world leaders can kick start a global debate like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

He’s called Israel a ‘racist government’ at an anti-racism conference, some of the audience walked out and France has called it ‘hate speech’. I’ll let you take it from here.

71 Responses to “Ahmadinejad again”

  1. 1 Anthony
    April 20, 2009 at 16:52

    I would have MUCH more sympathy for him and Iran if he were to just keep his mouth shut. I don’t think he’s helping his people when he says things like this.

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  2. 2 Ibrahim in UK
    April 20, 2009 at 16:58

    As we have seen time and time again, any criticism of the Zionist state of Israel is still taboo and met with cries of anti-semetism. The whole premise of Israel’s creation in place of Palestine is based on the ideology that Jews are Gods chosen people who have been promised the Holy Land. Israel’s existence as a Jewish majority state came about by removing the indigenous Arab-majority population and replacing them with Jewish immigrants. It’s continued existence as a Jewish state depends on reducing the Arab population inside Israel, something which the current government suggests could be done by forcefully transferring the Israeli Arabs to another country. The illegal settlements that are being built on occupied land are for Jews only, the infrastructure, investment, courts etc are all documented to favour Jews and be biased against Arabs.
    Of course, Israel is only one of the nations in the region, and many are guilty of racism. If Ahmadinejad had accused Syria or Sudan or even his own country of racism, would the delegates have departed in protest? Highly unlikely.
    The delegates are about as united against racism today as they were united against racism in apartheid South Africa.

    • 3 Liz
      April 23, 2009 at 15:47

      I strongly agree with this comment and I would just add that though I am not generally a fan, in this case Ahmadinejad was telling it like it is. The injustices done to the Palestinian people in the last fifty years is somehow a political blindspot.to Western governments.

  3. 4 deryck/trinidad
    April 20, 2009 at 17:10

    At the end of the day even if there is some shread of truth to what Ahmadinejad might of said you have to recognise that there are racists everywhere you go. So in stating his point he might also be tacitly portraying himself and his people as being racist as well.

  4. 5 Dennis Junior
    April 20, 2009 at 17:28

    I am glad that Western countries boycotted this summit before and during the opening remarks of Iran’s President…..

    In most cases, this is what would be classify as “hate” speech, which is unacceptable….

    -Dennis Junior-

    • 6 Dennis Junior
      April 27, 2009 at 03:24

      The President of Iran, wants to spew anti-Israeli and other stuff, since otherwise he can’t make an fair argument for the problems in his country!

      ~Dennis Junior~

  5. 7 steve
    April 20, 2009 at 17:30

    who supports him other than antisemites and holocaust deniars?

  6. 8 Tony from Singapura
    April 20, 2009 at 18:02

    I watched this on BBC and CNN (the CNN coverage was better because they had the translation feed already sorted out).

    His first significant statement pointed out that the security council and the conscept of veto were useless mechanisms in todays context. His oppinion is well founded.

    That walkout was nothing more than preplaned theatrics because it happened at a point where Ahmadinejad was simply stating some historic facts regarding the circumstances of Israel’s creation. Perhaps the facts were too hard to swallow. I am sure they all scurried for the television set and tuned into the CNN feed anyway.

    Those that are the greatest proponents of free speach and democracy in this world can’t take their own medicine. A few words of shameful truth and they behave like little children.

    Shame Shame Shame.

    • 9 Lauren
      December 10, 2009 at 03:05

      I agree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, particularly in settings like this. Walking out on during Ahmadinejad’s speech was a prearranged action that would have occurred no matter what he said. The fact is, the creation of the Israel state in the manner it was created is a controversial issue. I’m not saying I agree with Ahmadinejad and his view, however, I can see the argument made by many (not all) pro-Palestine proponents. I think this action was wrong of Western countries and in no way helps to better the relations between Iran and the West. This was very disrespectful. How likely is this disrespect going to encourage Iran to work, negotiate with us? Not likely. Ahmadinejad needs to have his statements acknowledged and then move on.

  7. 10 saad , Jaffrabad Pakistan
    April 20, 2009 at 18:06

    Ahmedinejad has done heroic act. He is hero indeed. Isreal has committed barbaric acts in Gaza it does clearly shows she has learned nothing from history. Israel has lost the spirit of diplomacy and know it just talks with bullets.

  8. 11 Tom K in Mpls
    April 20, 2009 at 18:11

    While I feel most of his rant is generally true, this was a childish and unproductive display. As long as his people allow him to stay in power, they will never become a significant part of the world. And as long as both, or either, parts of this issue maintain this attitude, the other countries are wasting their time pursuing this ‘peace’.

  9. 12 gary
    April 20, 2009 at 18:12

    It is just these sorts of occurrences that lead me to believe diplomacy is too important to be left to diplomats. Did anyone present imagine President Ahmadinejad was going to deliver a series of Henny Youngman one-liners? Diplomats from countries advocating freedom of speech certainly ought to be able to listen to it without then embarrassing themselves.

  10. 13 Jennifer
    April 20, 2009 at 18:20

    Wow, my post! hmmm

  11. 14 steve
    April 20, 2009 at 18:34

    did anyone else need any further evidence of what a joke the UN is? Only at a UN conference on racism can you have racist antiwestern antisemitic rants. I cannot believe my tax dollars is funding this garbage. What a joke! Turn the UN HQ into apartments so it can have some useful purpose.

  12. 15 Anthony
    April 20, 2009 at 18:38

    It’s funny, so it’s a racist state that has 20% Arabs…I wonder how many Jews are in somewhere like Iran.

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  13. April 20, 2009 at 18:41

    to Ibrahim in UK ,
    ” If Ahmadinejad had accused Syria or Sudan or even his own country of racism, would the delegates have departed in protest? Highly unlikely.

    By bringing up Syria and Sudan is not an equal comparision because Ahmadinejad has not promised to wipe Syria or Sudan off the face of the planet. Stating that a govenment is racist is not anti-semetic in itself but combined with Ahmadinejad’s other statements (dening the holocaust and seeking to destroy the Jews) it is clear that this was ment as anti-semetic hate speech.

    Anthony (Reno, NV)

  14. 17 VictorK
    April 20, 2009 at 18:49

    Let’s see: a racist delivers a racist speech to a conference on racism and is applauded by racists.

    Where exactly is the ‘global debate’ here? Is racism more acceptable when directed against a Western country?

    Darfur is the world’s most abject racist scenario: the Muslims, Arabs and Africans who applauded Ahmadinejad have either been silent about that years-long bout of genocidal racism or, in the case of the Arab League and the African Union, have stepped in to protect its perpetrators, the Sudanese regime.

    The UN conference will be dominated by the whining of the racist thugs of the third world, just like Durban in 2001, whose racist resentment and hatred of Western whites will never be plainly reported for what it is. The only appropriate response is for Western governments to permanently end their aid programmes to the third world and leave these ungrateful hypocrites to choke on their own racist bile.

  15. 18 VictorK
    April 20, 2009 at 19:10

    @Ibrahim: Israel was created by the great powers out of the remnants of the Ottoman Empire. If its creation was illegitimate than so was that of Iraq, Lebanon, Syria & Jordan, states similarly created a generation earlier. Accept their existence & you must also accept Israel’s. Anything else is anti-semitic.

    @Tony: Ahmadinejad has called for a final solution for Israel. That’s what his obsession with that country is all about, and that’s what the delegates of the civilised world (a term we need to revive) objected to.

    @Jennifer: yes – I know the feeling. Sometimes you wish people really believed in a debate that included non-PC views.

    @Steve: Western nations, who pay for the nest of vipers called the UN, need to call time on it. A truly worthless, anti-Western, institutionally leftist body.

    Can’t help noticing: the UN Conference on Racism has split into white and non-white camps. Sweet irony.

  16. April 20, 2009 at 19:12

    Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is an unsavory character, and is a hypocrite, but it pains me to say that he is telling the truth. Israel’s treatment of Palestine is racist and it does reiterate events that have occurred during WWII. One cannot deny the fact that a mass expulsion of 600,000 Palestinians did occur, and that it was perpetrated by the Israeli government. It is also a fact that the Israeli government is rounding up Palestinians and placing them into camps. This sounds very familiar. It seems like a whole nation is experiencing the stockholm syndrome.

  17. April 20, 2009 at 19:21

    No mass links to other sites we haven’t got time to read..

    No screeds from the Koran , Bible, or any other book- religous or otherwise- people i believe have the intelligence to read those somewhere else…

    and no going off topic…..

    then by all means be as “un-pc” as you like.

    Quite straightforward i think….

  18. 21 VictorK
    April 20, 2009 at 19:38

    @Mark: would it be off-topic for people to point out the connection between anti-semitism in the Muslim world and Koranic tradition?

    Is it really plausible to allege a tradition of racist violence by Muslims towards non-Muslims & not point to the Koranic and hadithic teachings that underpin it?,

    The fact is that most people, regardless of their intelligence, don’t read these books and have little idea of their content or relevance (BBC journalists, too).

    Your position is a PC one because what it effectively means is muted or no criticism of Islam (the only religion that’s a political force in the world today).

  19. April 20, 2009 at 19:41

    Here we go again, how dare ahmedinajad speak the truth about the racist genocide of the palestinians by the israel govt!!! Even though the israeli foreign,defence and prime ministers dont believe that the palestinians deserve a state of their own, even though most israelis consider palestinians as second class human beings,even though almost three-quater of the israeli population are (white) imigrants from europe and U.S while the occupied palestinians are (coloured) native arabs. This is exactly apartheid but funny enough nobody in the west is outraged!!!

  20. April 20, 2009 at 20:10

    I don’t like what Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said, but the reaction, the “clown protesters” made look this scenary not profesional. What kind of people is representing the countries in a so important matter? No diplomacy at all?

  21. 24 Benedict Wachira
    April 20, 2009 at 20:21

    I find the walk out very backward. They should have let him give us the history of Isreal(The way he understands it) and continue with the forum,Democracy they call it!
    If walking out is the solution,then i can imaging a situation where, Ahamadinejad speaks, followed by Chavez and then finally Mugabe!!

  22. 25 Jennifer
    April 20, 2009 at 20:23

    I’ll just say again that I am proud of those who left. Ahmadinejad showed his true intentions well in this display; it’ll only be the destruction of Israel by any means for him! He is racist and what what he said was hate speech.

    No bible verses!

  23. 26 sal
    April 20, 2009 at 21:32

    the Iranian leader thinks Israel is racist,well i say Iran is a sexist,homophobic country.to him and all those who support him the day a woman and a gay man or woman can have EQUAL rights in that country i will take Iran seriously and not just full of mouth

  24. 27 sal
    April 20, 2009 at 21:40

    …i dont get how he or anyone can pat themselves on the back when his iranian sisters face violence simply for not “dressing appropriately” and where gay men are killed or are forced to undergo surgery to change gender even though they do identify themselves as transgendered …

  25. 28 Dankane Dillali
    April 20, 2009 at 21:49

    Why the walkout? they only did that to divert attention from the real issue of israel being a monster on racism so that the world would end up discussing the walk out

  26. April 20, 2009 at 22:26

    was the walk out by western diplomat spontaneous and unanimous, or preplanned?.this action is truly a racist,childish and a distraction of the western media from Ahmadinejad speech.The speech was real facts! only those who do
    not follow bbc,cnn,aljazeera dw news would not agree to the facts stated by
    Ahmadinejad.Why the western leaders are so paranoid when anyone say
    anything about Israel?

  27. 30 Fred
    April 20, 2009 at 22:28

    Just look at which countries convened this meeting and who invited this guy to

    speak – and who set the agenda .

    I dont think there is one fully functioning democratic state amongst them .

    So what about Darfur , Sharia law in Pakistan , the Caste System in India ,

    the Gypsies in Easternn Europe .– do they not matter ?

    Should this meeting not adress these racist matters ?

  28. 31 Joy Wolfe
    April 20, 2009 at 22:50

    No Sam it certainly CAN be denied that there was a mass expulsion of 600,000 Palestinians by the Israeli government. That simply is not true.
    Many Palestinians followed advice to get out while the Arab armies finished off the Jews, but many stayed and have taken up their Israeli citizenship and live far better than Arabs and Palestinians in many other parts of the world, particularly the women.
    Why did so many Israeli Arabs rush to confirm their Israeli citizenship when they heard they might be going back under Palestinian rule? Have you visited Arab parts of Israel recently, Seen the extensive high qualitty building that is going on.
    As for Ibrahim in the UK, no-one other than you have cried “antisemitism”
    this is about blatant likes being spouted in an international conference by one of the people who poses the biggest threat to world peace. And there is no question of forceful transfer “to another country” All that might happen to create the Palestinian state the Palestinians pretend they want is for some Israeli Arab areas to go back under Palestinin rule.
    Tony from Singapura, you seem to have a strange concept of what qualifiesas truth.
    Gary Free speech is not a licence to incite hate and perpetrate lies. there have to be some red lines.
    Good posts Victor K

  29. 32 Fred
    April 20, 2009 at 23:07

    I just came across this BBC report about the

    ” non Racist ” Regime run by Hamas in Gaza which I am

    sure the President of Iran appoves of ;

    “The widespread practice of maiming people by shooting them in the legs is of particular concern. ………

    Between the start of the conflict, on 27 December, and the end of January, 49 people were shot in the legs and 73 Gazan men had their legs and arms broken”.


  30. April 20, 2009 at 23:46

    @Anthony, About 25,000 jews live in Iran. It is home to the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East outside Israel. At the Iranian revolution the Imam Khomeini declared jews to be a protected minority in Iran by virtue of the fact that they’ve always been there (unlike say people who convert to Christianity who get into a lot of trouble). Ahmendinajad seems to try not to conflate Judaism with Zionism. He may hate Zionism but, according to one BBC report I’ve read, has donated money to the Jewish Hospital in Tehran.

    As for his speech, Ahmedinajad needs to take some courses in communications, public relations and media management. Whatever truth and sense he has to say gets lost in provocative tone he always adopts. At least among western/westernised audiences.

    He may gain fans in the Arab world though. Arabs are traditionally opposed to Iran and Iranians. However many will see Ahmedinajad as saying the sort of things they wished their own leaders would say, gaining him some level of public support in the wider region.

  31. 34 Luci Smith
    April 21, 2009 at 01:15

    I am totally against Bejamin Netanyahoo’s Gated and walled Israel, and I find that they treat all Arabs like second-class citizens. If that isn’t racism, what is?

    I grew up in Dallas in the 1960’s when black people were treated like they treat Arabs and Palestinians in Israel today. It was and is abhorrent.

    I cannot figure out what can be done with Israel, but I personally cannot support zionists either, since I lived there for 5 months once and was very, very happy to leave. There were a lot of damaged jewish people in Israel and the place was run by Fundamentalists. I do not like religious Fundamentalists of any kind. Period.
    Any country where a sick child cannot be treated at a hospital because it is Saturday is a very sick country.

  32. 35 Stan
    April 21, 2009 at 03:11

    Ahmadinejad says European racism is behind the holocaust. Not true, or is it that white people are mortally offended when they are called racist? Ahmadinejad says Europeans, instead of trying to correct their own problems, sent the remaining Jews to Palestine. They then conspired to kick the Palestinians off their land. Not true? They then use Israel to serve their interests to help control Middle East oil. Not true? Ahmadinejad simply speaks truth to power, something those who have colonialized the world for the last 500 years can’t stand.

  33. April 21, 2009 at 07:26

    mebbe we could trade him for Bush…..

  34. 37 Jim Newman
    April 21, 2009 at 08:24

    Hello again
    I think PC has something to do with ‘political conformity’ probably a mode expression picked up from the media.
    To ViktorK. I’m probably letting myself in for another ‘putting right’ but here goes. In my understanding of the division of the Middle East by the great powers after the Ottoman Empire there was no country called Isreal and Palestine enjoyed the same legitimacy as all the rest. The people who lived in Palestine at the time were considered as Palestinians whatever their religion or race.
    As far as the ‘conference against racism and injustice’ goes the only person who spoke was Ahmadinejad the rest couldn’t think of anything to say and walked out. Not exactly what I would call a conference.

  35. 38 Durre in Kismayo Somalia
    April 21, 2009 at 08:47

    yeah i personally support Ahmedinejad for his bold speech that he always criticises the racist administration of Israil,the pitiless occupiers of the holy land of Muslims.
    we really support him because of the truth that he is the only one that is against what Israil and the US respect as a right.
    I suppose that one day Israil will one day meet punishmennt from Iran if it does not stop the brutal killings it does to the innocent palistinians.

  36. 39 Ibrahim in UK
    April 21, 2009 at 10:47

    “Accept their existence & you must also accept Israel’s. Anything else is anti-semitic.”

    Is that like saying “If you disagree with my opinion on Israel you are anti-semetic?”
    Notwithstanding that no one here has so far mentioned the illegitimacy of Israel, there is no comparison between the creation of other arab states and the creation of the state of Israel.
    Arab states were created on Arab land, for the indigenous Arab population.
    Israel was created on Arab land, for a foreign population based on their race, by displacing the majority indigenous Arab population. The question of how legitimate this is should be a topic for another debate.

    The question which was brought up in the anti-racism summit is: Is Israel a racist state. From it’s ideological inception, and it’s policies and laws which discriminate against Israeli-Arabs and in favour of Jews, the answer is yes.
    The fact that someone like Ahmadinejad is saying it doesn’t make it any less true, although, as Anthony (reno, NV) pointed out, the history of the Iranian leaders’ comments leads people to assume his motives are anti-semetic.

  37. 40 steve
    April 21, 2009 at 13:03

    @ Durre

    Hate to break the news to you, but Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years before Islam existed. Also, does “truth” include holocaust denial, as well as the denial that there are homosexuals in Iran? What does truth exactly mean to you?

  38. 41 kmccready
    April 21, 2009 at 13:42

    Walkout was stupid theatrics. He had some good points to make. Even UNHCR Chief said better to listen then reply rather than walkout. Obama will obviously continue with the Bush policy in the Middle East. Disappointing.

  39. 42 VictorK
    April 21, 2009 at 13:57

    It’s strange how Africans like Durre & Dankane get excited over supposedly racist Israel, while rarely having a word to say about the genuinely racist extermination of Africans by the Arab, Islamic fundamentalist government of Sudan. As Mr Amaechi told a Nigerian bigot on your programme: get your priorities right.

    @Ibrahim: simple question – do you accept that the Western powers were entitled to create Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq? If yes, do you accept that they were just as entitled, working through the UN, to create Israel and Palestine?

    How is Israel, as an explicitly Jewish state, any more discriminatory than the explicitly Islamic states of the Muslim world, almost all of which discriminate against non-Muslims? Malaysia, another Muslim state, systematically discriminates against its Indian and Chinese citizens. In some Gulf states the majority of the population are ‘guest workers’ with absolutely no rights. But only Israel is singled out for criticism? No. Israel is symbolic. It’s Western and European, and that’s why it’s hated by Muslims, Africans, etc. It’s a lightning-rod for Third World racism.

  40. 43 Timothy T.
    April 21, 2009 at 14:19

    Dear VictorK, Africans don’t applaud Ahmadinejad. I think the mud guy has been invited by the Western government which is Switzerland. This guy had a chance to speak before an American University. Africans are less sympathatic to Ahmadinejad than Western communities. What Africans are trying do is to give the Caucasian world another chance for an open discussion to eradicate this primitive epidemic called Racism — and they are doing it in a peacful, and rather quite manner. So, please do not try to put Africans in the same pot with the aggressive Muslim communities.

  41. 44 Aero
    April 21, 2009 at 16:26

    What does Mr. Ahmadinejad base his claim of racism against Israel on? Iranians are themselves not innocent from the claim of racism when Mr. Ahmadinejad himself said that Israel should be wiped off the map. This sounded like a call for ethnic cleansing. Israel, no doubt would like the same thing to happen, but today ethnic cleansing is intolerable.

    The Iranian President seems to be inciting the Palestinian people to have racist views against Israel but this would not end the conflict but only escalate it to open violence between the two nations. What is needed to help end the conflict is a clear line of over which neither nations can occupy or settle. Something like the boarder line between Mexico and USA.

    It also seems odd that Mr. Ahmadinejad made this speech at the same time an American independent news reporter has been detained in Iran as an alleged spy. Is this coincidence or a calculated move to put pressure on America, the UN and Israel? We all know the influence and support the US has for Israel and the UN.

  42. 45 Aero
    April 21, 2009 at 16:33

    Iran has a right to nuclear energy, true; however, it’s heated and tumultuous relationship – more like hatred for Israel and the US and the controversial view of its leader leaves too many unanswered questions about its intention for the development of nuclear capabilities.

    What are the other energy options for Iran? Is nuclear the only energy option for Iran?

  43. 46 Tony from Singapura
    April 21, 2009 at 17:03

    Hi Victor , Steve & all who have blogged on this subject. I wish to draw your attention to the actual content of Ahmedinejad’s speach.

    and sorry for late posting – my time zone is such.

    Q: Did he call for the destruction of Israel in the speach ?
    A: No

    Was there denial of the holocaust in the speach ?.
    A: No

    Certainly those that are offended by prior calls by this leader for destruction of Israel and denial of holocaust actually didnt attend inthe first place – a slap in the face for the UN however I do not disagree with these states reason for not attenting.

    Now for those that walked out: they were in attendnace at the start of the speach and only made their move when Ahmedinejad started to discuss the historical facts of Israels creation. By doing so, they show themselves to be either hypocrites or nancy boys – proponents of free speach who cannot take some straight talking and hard to swallow facts deplivered in a public forum… hmmm that sounds like free speach to me.

    They did not walk out because Ahmedinejad denied the holocaust and they did not walk out due to calls for destruction of Israel. If those past statements of this leader were a problem for them, they should have just stayed away, e.g. USA, Australia and others.

    I am tired of reading and hearing accusations of holocaust denier and anti-semitist being labeled against people who question the circumstances of Israel’s creation and behavior as a sovereign state. Such labeling is illogical and emotional and irrelevent.

    Lets all actually READ the transcript carefully (I also need to do so since I have only had time to scan it quickly) and then we can analyse it together rationally and objectivley.

  44. 47 Tony from Singapura
    April 21, 2009 at 17:25

    I think that Ahmedinejad had agood point on the effectivness of the security council and the veto feature that renders it a useless institution.

    Even if you dont like him – you have to admit that he has a good point there.

  45. 48 Fred
    April 21, 2009 at 17:29

    Ibrahim in U K -if as you libelously write Israel is illegitmate -where does that leave PAKISTAN , AFGANISTAN or INDONESIA all states run on racist ISLAMIST grounds -surely they are bastard states .

    What is so upsetting is the way the U N the great hope of the World after WW2 is going –is it to prove as ineffective as the old League of Nations which dithered and allowed the Germans to pursue W W 2 .
    Is the U N to allow Iran to emulate Germany ?

    Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s appearance in Geneva on Monday at the UN’s so-called anti-racism conference, Durban II, made the point better than anyone else.
    he did not tell the Worls or the UN how he treats the Bahais did he ?

    The UN’s idea of combating racism and xenophobia is to encourage more of it. Ahmadinejad was the very first speaker as the substantive session opened. Handed a global megaphone by the UN, out flowed unadulterated hate speech.

    The phenomenon was astonishing.
    The UN provided a platform for a virulent antisemite on the anniversary of the birth of Adolf Hitler. and on the eve of Holocaust Memorial Day in Israel – the Holocaust he says did not happen .
    In the name of fighting intolerance, the U N translated his words into six languages and broadcast them around the world.
    As he entered the grand room at the UN’s Palais Wilson, he was met by a round of applause.
    And he then preached HATE pure and simple
    How illegitimate the U N has become ? -and we know who has done this .

  46. 49 Fred
    April 21, 2009 at 17:48

    This is how lies are perpetuated
    re Luci Smith – I have just seen her contribution –
    some of us have to work in between surfing the internet .
    It is a pity she had a bad sojourn in Israel but she got a few things badly wrong .

    Firstly Israel is NOT run by Fundamentalists as evidenced by the facilities it gives to Homosexuals and Lesbians , Christians , Muslims Bahais and Africans of all shades and beliefs .
    [ Compare that with Iran ,Iraq Pakistan etc ]

    It is just NOT TRUE that medical treatment is not available in Israel on Saturday -try the UK at weekends !
    There is a concept practiced in all medical facilities in Israel called “Pikuach Nefesh ” which means saving a soul [ from pain ] and it transends any prohibition about “work ” on Sabbath .
    Very religious Jews even run an organisation called Hatzola which is a supplementary emergency service on Sabbath and 365 days a year
    which sometimes arrives before an ambulance and gives first aid ..

  47. April 21, 2009 at 17:58

    T from New Zealand waxes lyrical about the Jewish community of Iran. O ye of little understanding. I suggest he read Eliz Sanasarian’s outstanding study, Religious Minorities in Iran. All the minorities are so much under pressure that their numbers are shrinking. Iran’s largest religious minority, the Baha’is, have been severely persecuted since the revolution and has recently seen a further clampdown. Baha’is have seen over 200 members executed because of their membership, they are forbidden to hold worship services, young Baha’i are forbidden to enter university, their leadership has recently been arrested and is held without access to relatives or lawyers, their most sacred shrines have been demolished, possession of their scriptures is a crime, their property has been confiscated, pensions have been taken by the state, they cannot work in jobs such as teaching.

    Perhaps T or other defenders of Ahmadinejad will explain to me why they think Iran a bastion of human rights, freedom and democracy. Perhaps they will explain why Israel, where the Baha’is have full rights and where they have built their magnificent world centre, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, is condemned as a country in breach of human rights. In Israel, the Christian, Baha’i, Muslim, Druze and other religious communities have grown while their counterparts in Iran have dwindled. What perversion of the obvious truth is it to condemn the one genuine democracy in the Middle East, where all religions, women, gays, Jews, and Arabs have exactly the same rights as citizens, while lauding the achievements of a country (and one that I love, where I have lived, and whose language I speak) where religions are persecuted, under-age gay boys are hanged by the neck from cranes till they strangle to death, where women are flogged and stoned to death? Those who play this little game and claim to support human rights should be ashamed of themselves.

  48. April 21, 2009 at 18:34

    Ahmadinenjad anti Israel speeches are dispicable and not acceptable by democratic countries the world over. He basically derives his power from the huge income from the sale of oil which Iran has in reserve. He hopes to lead the Islamic world by attacking Israel in any way he can. The excuse he has for developing nuclear power for peaceful purposes as a source of energy is rediculas, considering Iran has a vast supply of oil, it means simply to produce weapons of mass distruction which he intends to use against Israel as he stated that he intends to destroy Israel. He forgets Israel already has nuclear weapons and are capable of delivering them effectably. He should be aware that the road from Teheran to Tel Aviv is also the road from Tel Aviv to Teheran.
    His condemnation of israel is a pack of lies but he being a meglomaniac actually believes he is speaking what he considers to be the truth.
    If and when the time comes for Iran’s testing of a nuclear weapon, all the development installations under and above ground must and will surely be destroyed.
    The spread of nuclear developments should be the main agenda of the Security Council and ways must be found to stop it once and for all, otherwise countries like Iran that support terrorism will use it for their evil purposes.
    There are many arabs living in Israel as Israeli citizens and by law enjoy the same rights as jewish citizens of Israel, so his point of Israel being a racist country is nonsense, stupid and rediculas.

  49. 52 Ibrahim in UK
    April 21, 2009 at 18:45

    VictorK, hello again! 🙂 No one has brought up an issue of a state called Israel existing. But to answer your question, what foreign powers do while they occupy and control someone else’s land is only de-facto legitimate as long as they occupy the land. Once the occupation ends, and the people are free, they can decide whether to keep those foreign-drawn borders and rules or choose their own fate on their own land. The issue with Israel is that this state was created for foreign Jewish settlers through ethnically cleansing the majority indigenous Arab population. Israel only exists as a Jewish state because of this ethnic cleansing and by defending the fruits of it.
    As you point out, islamic countries have racism and have discrimination, and plenty of it, but none of them depend on discrimination and racism and ethnic cleansing in order to exist as Islamic states. If/when Islamic countries progress and fix their problems of racism and discrimination, they will continue to exist as Islamic countries. Israel is unique in that if it fixes the problem of racism and discrimination, and either allows the indigenous Arabs to return home or allows the Israeli Arabs equal rights, it will no longer be a Jewish state purely because of demographic reasons. Israel’s existence as a Jewish majority state was artificially created through a policy of ethnic cleansing and is unsustainable without a continuation of this policy. That is not a symbol of today’s West or Europe.

  50. 53 Alan
    April 21, 2009 at 23:11

    In Israel they teach examples of Arabic poetry to their kids in school, while in Turkey you can’t recite Kurdish poems even in your wedding party.

  51. 54 globalcomedy
    April 22, 2009 at 04:04

    Say what you want about Ahmadinejad. But you can’t deny that he had some valid points in his speech. One being that Israel continues a racist apartheid approach to the Palestinians.

    The Israeli Foreign Ministry, AIPAC in the States and various Zionist organizations in the U.K. have a right to their opinion. But also, what good are the same talking points all the time? Wouldn’t you gain credibility if you actually listened to the progressive side and then had an intelligent debate? Frankly it’s really boring when it’s the same people saying the same stuff. And the MSM saying THIS IS GREAT! No it’s not.

  52. 55 Albert
    April 22, 2009 at 09:41

    The whole EU should have totally boyocotted this joke of an conference and let the tin pot dictators carry on by themselves

    “Ibrahim in UK: Arab states were created on Arab land, for the indigenous Arab population.”

    I am sure you would agree that European countries were created on European land for indigenous European population, so shouldn’t be a question “Why don’t you go wherever you came from” aimed at Arab/Muslim immigrants to Europe a legitimate one?

  53. 56 David Murton
    April 22, 2009 at 09:58


    Why are there “Arab parts of Israel”?

    Is it perhaps because Arabs don’t like Israelis? In which case they should leave.

    But that rather negates Joy Wolfes claim that “many Israeli Arabs rushed to confirm their Israeli citizenship when they heard they might be going back to Palestinian rule”, under proposlas to “transfer” Palestinians out of Israel.

    Or do “Arab parts of Israel” exist because Jews are not entirely happy about having Palestinians among them? Indeed, that is what the somewhat facist policy of “transfer” advocated by some prominent Israelis aims to address.

  54. 57 VictorK
    April 22, 2009 at 13:38

    @Tony: Ahmadinejad’s history is barmy (Jews being ‘sent’ from Europe? What nonsense).

    Muslim Indonesia invaded, annexed and is today ruthlessly exploiting the mineral resources of Western Guinea, renaming the territory ‘Irian Jaya’. Not a word of protest then or now from any Muslim anywhere in the world. Why: because the people of Guinea aren’t Muslims. A consistent pattern: Muslims connive at or openly support Muslim aggression, sometimes racist in character – as with the Black victims in Western Guinea – against non-Muslims.

    Muslim rage against Israel has nothing to do with ‘justice’, which is merely a word to Muslims, the thing itself being unknown to them practice. It has everything to do with their racism towards a non-Muslim people who have had the impudence to defend themselves against repeated aggression from their Muslim neighbours. The UN gave the Palestinians their own state in 1947. Unsuccessful Arab racism and aggression at the time is the reason why, more than half-a-century later, the Palestinians are in their present condition.

  55. 58 VictorK
    April 22, 2009 at 14:00

    @Ibrahim: Arabs are indigenous to the Arabian peninsula. They live in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt and North Africa as a result of invasion and conquest of other people’s land. But as a Muslim I don’t suppose you have a problem with that.

    @ globalcomedy: ‘Israel continues a racist apartheid approach to the Palestinians.’ . This claim is often made but hardly ever supported: please give examples, if you can.

    Alan & Denis gave two good examples of Muslim racism, Turks against Kurds and Iranians against Baha’is. But it’s a near-certainty that neither will be addressed by the UN conference, whose true character is a gathering of anti-Western racists who will rave about colonialism, the slave trade and Israel.

    @David Murton: I suppose there are ‘Arab parts’ of Israel for the same reason that there are Black districts in American cities or Muslim districts in British/Dutch/French cities. People self-segregate even in the absence of legally mandated segregation. You can’t read too much into that fact about human behaviour.

  56. 59 Jim Newman
    April 22, 2009 at 17:30

    Hello again
    If the Iranian President said what it is reported that he said then I am afraid he is right. Zionism is a cruel racist ideology without humanity without soul.

  57. 60 viola
    April 22, 2009 at 17:46

    I’m curious about why the mullahs like this guy so much that they accept his election while disallowing the installment of the man who actually won the election.

    Seems like he’s been nothing but trouble with a big mouth.

  58. April 22, 2009 at 18:50

    “With the Arabs we shall not achieve our aim of being an independent people in this country. The only solution is Eretz-Israel, at least the west part of Eretz-Israel, without Arabs… And there is no other way but to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries. Transfer all of them, not one village or tribe should remain…”

    – Joseph Weitz, entry in his diary for 1940 (Quoted in his article: “A solution to the Refugee Problem: An Israeli State with a small Arab Minority”, published in Davar, 29 September, 1967.

  59. 62 Fred
    April 22, 2009 at 23:32

    Its a pity no one goes to Sunday School any more and reads the Bible

    [eg David Murton ]

    and a pity that Muslims [eg Ibrahim in UK ] do not read the Quran properly .

    If they did they would know that the Jewish people are not “foreign ”

    and that they have had a long standing link with the LAND OF ISRAEL

    going back over 4,000 years as mentioned in the Bible and Quran .

    The plan of transer by the way was because the Arabs want NO JEWS in the WEST BANK or GAZA so some Israelis thought the ARABS in Israel close to the West Bank border line might “want ” to live under Arab rule .
    The Arabs in Israel know what is best for them and what they like
    -they prefer to live in Israel and they do not not suffer racism or Apartheid

    • 63 david murton
      April 24, 2009 at 07:40

      So Fred…are you being serious about using the Bible as justification for Israel’s existence? Or perhaps you are ironic?

      The Bible has been totally discredited and shown to be false as an historical document.

      It’s just myth my boy, the kind of stuff that is ideal for Sunday school!

      And if people don’t quite see your point of view…you transfer them!

      I truly think you are being ironic and are in fact an anti-zionist in disguise. Well done.

    • 64 L
      April 24, 2009 at 17:55

      Fred, the bible did promise the land to the Jews, but they disobeyed God one time too many and God had then kicked out for disobedience (a countless event in the OT).The Jews rejected Jesus and so cannot receive the land.Also, God never said the land was just for them alone, they could have moved to Palestine after WW2 peaceably with the Muslims without stealing land.

  60. 65 Jeff Minter
    April 23, 2009 at 19:48

    Leaders of white countries walking out of a anti-racism conference. If anything, the image of them as fair, just and upholders of the right to free speech were far more damaged than what the Iranian President could ever say.

  61. 66 Anon
    April 24, 2009 at 12:46

    Ahmadinejad has a very valid point. While I do not agree with everything he stands for, it doesn’t make his point about Israel being racist any less true.

    There needs to be an honest and frank critique about the state of Israel without the constant and divertionary screams of ‘anti semitism’ and ‘Holocaust denial’.

    The walk out during Ahmadinejad’s speech did not help to further the discussions – racism cannot be solved without some painful issues being faced – refusing to listen only furthers divide and antagonism.

  62. 67 Simon Bayliss
    April 24, 2009 at 16:27

    Listening to the BBC (radio 4 news) about this story, waitin waitin waiting to hear what he actually said, which they didn’t air but told us it was bad bad bad , and had no place at a forum like this, I smelt a rat and could hear they were telling me what to think not reporting the news(thats not what the BBC is there for, FOX yes but not the BBC…….
    After reading the transcript, I agree with alot of what his speech had to say…….
    shame on the broadcasters for manipulating news and shame on Milliband for his comments too..
    Please people seek out what is true and what is not……
    Humanity above all else…..end poverty to find peace…….

  63. 68 Syed Hasan Turab
    April 24, 2009 at 18:06

    Iranian leader is asking Justice & peace, sooner or later walkouter’s will start dialogue’s with victom’s of Justice & Peace.
    Any way these walk outer.s will lost there influence over Justice & Peace at there own terms & conditions.
    Please reviw the theory of Justice & peace will be rewarded to you, living in the fearness may be understand sence of guilt, walk out will delay the peace & you will be isolated.

  64. 69 VictorK
    April 24, 2009 at 18:53

    People walking out on Ahmadinejad doesn’t impair his right to, or exercise of, free speech. Others also have a right to show their disdain for what he says.

    Isn’t the issue of Israeli racism (and there is an issue, though it’s not as great as Israel’s critics make it out to be) distinct from that of Ahmadinejad’s much more significant call for genocide? And isn’t it in this context, the call for a second holocaust, that all his references to Israel are to be understood? There are certainly discriminatory aspects to Israel’s treatment of Palestinians (e.g. the state’s marriage laws). But since these are no more, and are often in fact considerably less, than the racism towards Jews, non-Arabs and non-Muslims of Israel’s Arab neighbours, I’d still like to know why Israel is so furiously singled out for ‘racism’ by states that are infinitely more racist than her.

    Since, at the time of Israel’s creation, there were just as many Jewish refugees and expellees from Muslim states as there were Palestinian refugees it’s not credible to scream racism on behalf of those Palestinians while remaining silent about the racism that created Jewish refugees. There’s a motive at work here other than a disinterested love of justice.

    • 70 Jim Newman
      April 25, 2009 at 10:57

      Hello again
      And hello again VictorK. I think that Ahmadinejad spoke of wiping Isreal off the face of the map but not the squatters off the face of the earth. I know that the propaganda machine is out to demonise Iran and it’s leaders but it doesn’t mean to say we should believe everything we’re told.
      About Iranian antisemitism. I’ve read a few comments by people, who say they know Iran, who say that the Jews of Iran are treated like any other Iranians, not discriminated against.
      The only time I’ve heard the threat of the holocaust against a people in the context zionist/ Palestinians was when Gissin said that they would visit the holocaust on them. Them being the Palestinians.

  65. 71 giddi
    April 26, 2009 at 05:49

    like it or not, ahmadinijad’s speech is full of ignorance and lies, like always.
    Israel was created in spite of the holocaust and not as a result of it. The world recognized the jewish people, displaced from their homeland as REFUGEES for a long time, but still always living there in some numbers, way back after WW1, not WW2. Napoleon btw already recognized this right in 1799. Jews kept immigrating to Israel all through the centuries. Mind you, there was Jewish autonomy during Bytzantine and Persian times in Israel and Jews even fought the crusaders. So Jews were never absent from their homeland, they just were refugees and needed to restore their rightful claim for a homel Some Arabs WERE displaced following the WAR which ARABS started and LOST. That’s what happens in wars. Just a quick history lesson for Ahmadinijad then.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: