Talking points 12 December

Auto Ailings
“It’s over with,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said of failed efforts to extend up to $14 billion to the car industry’s big three. The proposed bailout of U.S. automakers ,General Motors, Ford and Chrysler, failed in the Senate on Thursday night, raising fears of an industry collapse, job losses and market tumblings. Was this the right thing to do?

 This blogger thinks so. Another blogger whose grandfather is a retired auto worker says that last night the government failed her grandfather and people like him. They failed to reach a plan that will save his pension and others’ jobs.

What do you think? Should the US have bailed out the Big Three?

South Africa has announced it’s border with Zimbabwe a disaster zone as more cholera sufferers flood to get treatment. A couple of hours later Robert Mugabe announces that Cholera has been contained he said “Because of cholera, Brown, Sarkozy and Bush want military intervention. Now that there is no cholera, there’s no need for war.”

There are also growing worries in the UK of mass migration of Zimbabweans to the to flee the Cholera epidemic. Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has warned that some people were obtaining fake passports from neighbouring countries where citizens do not need UK entry visas.

Meanwhile as calls grow for intervention in the DRC, The UK and Germany resist any military involvement. These are only two examples of problems Africa is hoping the world will solve. But why should it? Why should we still care about Africa? If Africa can’t solve it’s own problems, should the rest of the world still care?

In this blog Peter Goodspeed writes how Africa is waiting for a miracle. His name is Barack Obama. But even before that has Africa always ben waiting for a miracle? Goodspeed says,
Once described by then-British Prime Minister Tony Blair as “a scar on the conscience of the world,” the continent has been promised help for generations, but still suffers from civil wars, tribal conflicts, epidemic diseases, malnutrition, poverty, a lack of opportunity, crime and corruption.
The phrase ‘promised help for generations’ grabbed me. Is the world then making promises it can’t keep?

Speaking of promises. EU leaders meeting to reach climate change strategies are closer to securing teh 20-20-20 deal, meaning;
– 20% cut in greenhouse gas emissions by 2020
– 20% increase in use of renewable energy by 2020
– 20% cut in energy consumption through improved energy efficiency by 2020. An attainable target or yet another promise?

And, is there anything we wouldn’t sell on ebay? A grandmother has auctioned the best TV seat in her living room to stop rows in her family over Christmas. The lucky daughter in law and her son have secured the comfy seat with the best TV view for only £13.50. Not a bad deal!

33 Responses to “Talking points 12 December”

  1. 1 roebert
    December 12, 2008 at 11:45

    I find it bizarre that the UK resists military intervention in Zimbabwe, whereas it was so keen to rush into Iraq with the US. Rather than washing its hands of the Zimbabwean problem, the UK should wake up to the fact that Mugabe is the end result of British interference and intervention in White ruled Rhodesia. In this interference and mistranslation and misrepresentation of the Zim situation, the BBC was more than merely helpful, it was complicit, right up to the skewed reporting on White owned farms and the so-called land reforms.

    Military intervention is justifiable in this case because the people of Zimbabwe are too worn out and dispirited to act in their own behalf, and because military action in Zim need not amount to much more than a show of force to get the lunatic Mugabe out. 100 SAS and two tanks will do it.

  2. 2 VictorK
    December 12, 2008 at 12:51

    The bail-out would have been futile without serious reform of uncompetitive working practices within the auto industry. The unions refused to accept those reforms. Many of the banks that were bailed-out should have been allowed to fail; the only bail-out should have been for some deposit-holders.

    Brown and Sarkozy should shut up about Zimbabwe, which is no concern of theirs. South Africa and Zimbabwe’s other neighbours are the only countries with any standing regarding this. They allowed this situation to develop and they should be the ones to bear the burden of their collective failures, from cholera to refugees. The West must learn to mind its own business.

    ‘The world’ doesn’t care about Africa. Saudis, Pakistanis, Indonesians, Brazilians, Malaysians, etc have their own problems to deal with, besides lacking any tradition of international humanitarianism. What’s meant by ‘the world’ is philanthropic, officious, self-righteous, imperialist-minded Western liberals. But Africa isn’t their responsibility and shouldn’t be made a burden on Western tax-payers. Africans demanded independence; let them enjoy it. Otherwise they can apologise for having been wrong and ask to be re-colonised and governed properly again. A continent as rich in minerals as Africa shouldn’t be the permanent nightmare of disease and poverty that it is.

  3. 3 VictorK
    December 12, 2008 at 13:46

    @roebert: as despotic as he is, Robert Mugabe is always described as an ‘intelligent’ man, and he’s certainly that compared to the general run of African leaders. I’ve always wondered at his hostility to successive British governments (he’s always been intelligent enough to make clear that he has no problem with the British people and has the greatest respect for the Queen!). I used to dismiss it as mere rant, until I read the following article:


    Mugabe perhaps does, after all, have reason to resent the British government. The article has more than the ring of truth, since there’s no way that Mrs Thatcher would simply have paved the way for a Marxist, even a popularly elected one, to come to power. The British government had the intention, but lacked the will, to fix the election that brought Mugabe to power.

    In fairness, the rush into Iraq on the heels of the US was more by New Labour than by the UK. As to the reason for it: politically-motivated humanitarianism, as you’d expect from our corrupt New Labour regime. Blair & Co. were naive enough, I believe, to think that if they used British blood and treasure to help Muslims (and to a rational mind liberation from Saddam and the Taliban are both benefits) he would permanently secure the Muslim vote to his party. Experience (the master of fools) has taught them that Muslim loyalty is to other Muslims, even if they happen to be Saddam or the Taliban, and never, under any circumstances, to non-Muslims.

  4. 4 Roberto
    December 12, 2008 at 13:53

    RE “” Should the US have bailed out the Big Three? “”

    ———– Reps/Dems/Congress/Feds/State/Munys don’t seem to understand that “”The Bell Tolls for Thee.””

    All their healthcare, pensions, police protection in their gated communities, all going up in smoke as we speak. They’ve authored in the biggest fraud ever perpetuated on the world, the final stroke of which was Credit Default Swap bill passed by Slick and the Rep congress in 99.

    If Wall Street is nothing but a Ponzi scheme as the latest charge against Wall Street insider, Bernard Madoff, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28183375/ , and politics is nothing but the Illinois Guv’nr being charged with bribery.

    Lest anyone need a reminder, this is the hometown base of support that propels Obama to the whitehouse in Jan 20, 2009.

    Chickens coming home to roost as the a self styled modern Roman Empire seemingly impaled on it’s own hubris and hypocrisy. I’ve stated before that even if Obama turns out to be the of the stature of FDR/Truman/Eisenhower rolled into one, it’s asking too much to expect him to single handedly lead the US and the world out of the growing economic implosion and anarchy.

    Where O where are the matching great leaders to negotiate with? Where O where are the informed, civic minded voters going to come from to run an equitable democracy?

  5. December 12, 2008 at 13:56

    It is almost farcical to notice Western leaders foaming in the mouth at the death of some few hundred Zimbabweans. I agree, it is totally unacceptable that a human being should die of preventable and easily curable disease. But this is not just happening in Zimbabwe, thousands die daily all over Africa from malaria, Aids and tuberculosis. I have not heard anyone talk of war till now.

    Mugabe is no saint, if he was the least bit decent he would have resigned by now, but the troubles bedeviling our brothers in Zimbabwe are not his alone. The British sabotaged the Land Reform programme before Mugabe took to the violent takeovers. Nobody talks about the British complicity in the tragedy that is today’s Zimbabwe.

    I was bemused as well to notice my own Prime Minister, Raila Odinga call for armies to save the cholera stricken Zimbabweans. Mr. Odinga has my utmost respect, but since he entered a clearly lopsided power sharing deal with Kibaki, he has been trying – sometimes too hard; to appear the perfect African statesman. I am only afraid that in his own Lang’ata constituency, where arguably the biggest slum in Africa is located, a cholera outbreak is more likely than not. I would hate to see him having to eat his own words.

  6. 6 Jennifer
    December 12, 2008 at 14:08

    Re: Auto bailout

    My opinion is that the bailout would not have been helpful anyway without cooperation from everyone all around.

    Awhile ago I met this really nice lady when I was shopping in her store. She lived through the great depression and her father worked for GM. She said that he would be very upset at the way that things are happening nowdays in the auto industry. She said that once when he was at work one of his bosses was giving some Chinese leaders a walk-through of their plant.

    Re: Climate Change

    I understand the concern for our environment. However, what good does it do to have a nice environment when people are otherwise unsafe. Would be low on my to fix list.

    Re: And, is there anything we wouldn’t sell on ebay? A grandmother has auctioned the best TV seat in her living room to stop rows in her family over Christmas.

    People try to sell all types of things on eBay!


    You can find some pretty good deals on ebay as well as rare items! I admit I love ebay. 😀

  7. 7 John in Salem
    December 12, 2008 at 14:13

    The bailout is money down a rat hole. Had the CEO’s not been called out on using corporate jets to go to the first hearing they would have continued to use them without a second thought. They don’t get it and never have. It’s too bad that the people who work for them chose to hook their futures to a dying industry but that was their choice. Everyone has known that this day might come but they were willing to gamble that it wouldn’t and they were wrong.

    The nations of Africa have more than enough of everything they need except the will to get their act together and that’s something that no one can give them.

  8. 8 VictorK
    December 12, 2008 at 14:16

    The jury in the coroner’s inquest on Jean Charles de Menezes (the man shot dead by police who mistook him for a terrorist) have just given their ruling: an open verdict and not, as the police would have liked, a verdict of lawful killing. The coroner had prevented the jury from bringing in a verdict of unlawful killing.

    This is an important decision for the UK. The instincts of the New Labour regime naturally turn towards setting up the apparatus of a police state in Britain (ID cards, holding people without charge, laws invading the private sphere and obliterating traditional liberties, etc). The police have been politicised and corrupted by New Labour. Police Chiefs have openly lobbied the government and supported government policy. They have on several occasions prosecuted the innocent and left unprosecuted the guilty, in the knowledge that the government would welcome the political advantage of particular prosecutions or failures to prosecute. They have acted as the security arm of the government in harassing and arresting an opposition MP (the British government has the impudence to rave at Robert Mugabe).The de Menezes inquest has exposed the police as liars and incompetents, who it was revealed acted collusively after they murdered an innocent man to get their stories straight (shamelessly, they defended this as routine practice).

    We in Britain need to forget the police state in Zimbabwe and build on this verdict to roll back New Labour’s incipient police state right here.

  9. December 12, 2008 at 14:18

    Will US Autoworkers Take Their Medicine?
    TEHRAN – End of the old crate but will US carmakers swallow it? The 1959 American automobile was designed like a ship with a luxury cabin for body, but the age of petrol guzzlers and road hoggers is over.
    People want a compact car, complete with maintenance kit and a bit of road attached to it for easy parking.
    Former British prime minister Lady Margaret Thatcher literally destroyed Labour trade unions within ten years, starting in 1970. She may have saved British industry, but over did it. Will American trade unions and autoworkers swallow their medicine? The carmakers’ bailout is tool little, too late! The industry is worth far more than that; but the world wants smaller, fuel-efficient cars, better technology, less toxic emissions! Will it happen?
    US lawmakers have taken a hint from their European counterparts, but does it end here?

  10. 10 Brett
    December 12, 2008 at 14:42


    No no no, the US should not have bailed out the big 3. And I’m glad they didnt. BYE!

  11. 11 gary
    December 12, 2008 at 14:45

    While the US auto industry has been in worsening health for 35 years, I find great humor in comments that ascribe its imminent demise as due to the evils of unionism, idiocy in upper management, superiority of foreign technology, or any other such narrow view. The facts are, that while all these views are reasonable, they are incorrect.
    US autos have become big and fat in lock step with their owners. As they have done so, their fundamental purpose has been effectively submerged. Convenience has become necessity. The entire US economy is geared (intended pun, though not a very good one) to ad libitum transportation. Indeed, the automobile has become the very image of freedom cast in steel. It represents the second greatest expenditure, after housing, for the average US family, and almost everything about it is based upon lies!
    The truth is almost too simple to say! Cars are metal boxes equipped with wheels and a motor. They move people form place to place in modest comfort pretty much at the whim of the driver. Any additional characteristics are merely marketing flummery. A simple analysis of any US citizen’s daily travel would indicate living closer to work, school, or shopping constitutes the best solution; but a really good second choice would be mass transportation of some sort!
    Have you discovered the answer yet? We Americans are looking at it square on!
    We can afford transportation, but we can’t afford the hype that comes along with it!
    In final analysis, the fashion of automobiles makes about as much sense as did the fashions of codpieces, ostrich plumes, or as did my favorite Doug Adams objects of idiocy; digital wrist watches!
    Sorry, for the inconvenient length of this rant!

  12. December 12, 2008 at 15:40

    It seems we meet again. I read your reply to my comment the other day. I am sorry my comment implied you were on the side of liberals fighting terrorists. This notwithstanding, I still retain my stand that your outlook and language are way too prejudiced and the same applies to your comments on today’s topic. I am indignant and even ashamed that black Africa is bedeviled with the problems it has and that it remains at the bottom of the ladder in economic development. But to see things in the same light as you do is both insulting and hypocritical. How could you call colonialism “proper governance”? Let me teach you a thing or two about what colonialism was about.

    In the late 18th and early 19th century, European powers that had exhausted all their natural resources in the rush to industrialise, discovered a continent lush with natural splendor and a vibrant culture. What a boon! Over the next century, they pulverized the continent; carting away the able bodied to serve as slaves in their estates and factories, whilst shipping away our natural wealth free of charge. They justified their injustice by claiming that we were no more than a bunch of savages. When Africa did get independence, things were not helped by the crop of leaders that took power from the colonialists. They were the worst of dictators who pandered to the whims of the former colonialists who let them cling to power and commit atrocities as long as they did not upset their trading interests or lean too closely to the Soviets.

    The losers, of course, were poor ignorant black citizenry. But it is no use bemoaning what was. Africa can only rise to the level of the rest of the world at her own initiative. No amount of “humanitarianism” by “Western Liberals” will solve our problems,I agree with you on this.

    But let me correct you, Africa is not awash with minerals as you suggest. My own country Kenya has, at present, very little of them. Our economy mainly depends on agriculture and tourism. Today is our National Day ; “Jamhuri Day” and we are celebrating 45 years of self governance . Whether it galls you or not, what Kenya has achieved over the last 6 years in terms of human and economic development, is way beyond the achievements of a century of colonialism. Best of all, Kenya is the only black African country that makes its annual budget without factoring donor support. And last year, that budget was close to 10 billion US Dollars. Maybe not much by your standards but am proud and will continue to be in the future. And pray, don’t count yourself a burdened western taxpayer on my behalf. I would rather that your western government would remove its unfair trade barriers and subsidies so that my father, who raises a couple of dairy cattle in his retirement at the foot of the scenic Nyandarua ranges, can have a hope of selling his produce in the same market as your farmers.

  13. 13 Jennifer
    December 12, 2008 at 15:44

    Hey, what was wrong with the link I posted? It was an interesting link! 😦

  14. 14 bbcfletch
    December 12, 2008 at 15:52

    @ Jennifer

    Sorry – I couldn’t open your link in my browser – we have to check them to make sure the content is ok, and as I couldn’t do that I had to remove it from the post. Not sure why it wouldn’t open, maybe check that the link was right. If you send it again and I can open and check it, then I can approve it.

    Cheers, James

  15. December 12, 2008 at 15:52

    Hi Victor
    Reyr December 12, 2008 at 1:46 pm post
    Anglo-American cooperation was at top of Labour policy from the very start. It paid off in terms of trade and foreign policy.
    Going into Iraq was the right thing to do at the time. Europe acquiesced and the rest of the world followed. Perhaps staying in Iraq for five years and more may not have been a good thing.
    Labour gave direction to Europe and the world and Britain has since maintained that lead.

  16. December 12, 2008 at 16:14

    RE: Auto Industry bailout.

    I didn’t hear of a government bailout when England’s MG Rover was in trouble a few years ago. The Chinese bought out the company. If Americans car makers can’t learn to make cars that suit new tastes, let them stop asking for government handouts and sell out to the Japanese who certainly know the business!

  17. 17 bbcfletch
    December 12, 2008 at 16:22

    @ Jennifer

    Thanks for resending, the link worked this time, so i’ve put it back in your post. Cheers, James

  18. 18 Jennifer
    December 12, 2008 at 16:29

    @ James

    I am glad it worked! Thank you 🙂

  19. 19 VictorK
    December 12, 2008 at 16:38

    @Jake: many Africans have a fantasy-driven sense of history.

    Slavery was (and is) an indigenous African institution. The slave trade was a joint enterprise involving Africans and Europeans, and couldn’t have existed but for African participation. Japan and South Korea have no mineral resources at all, yet compare them to black Africa which, taken collectively, is bursting at the seams with minerals. Africans should be ashamed that whites in Rhodesia and South Africa showed what could be done with Africa’s resources. Compare equally well-endowed countries like the DR of the Congo and Angola. There was a point when a favourite claim of critics of Africa was that Belgium’s GDP was greater than that of the entire African continent. A competent people will, in the space of 50 years, lay the foundations of a modern industrial society. Many south east Asian nations – also former colonies – have managed to, but not black Africans. With the exceptions of Algeria and the Belgian Congo (when the latter was, literally, owned by King Leopold), colonialism was a period of good governance for Africa. Africans have benefited immensely from the introduction of Western medicine, the introduction of Western education (and not least the introduction of writing), the introduction of modern technology, the introduction of a basic transport infra-structure, the suppression of tribal warfare, the introduction of Western legal and and judicial systems, the introduction of modern agricultural techniques, etc. Yes, there were also costs to colonialism, but these are heavily outweighed by the benefits. Apart from Germany, no colonial power ever slaughtered Africans on the genocidal scale that Africans have been slaughtering each other post-independence.

    If Africans are independent then they have no right to hand-outs from hard-working Western tax-payers. It’s as simple as that.

  20. 20 Luci Smith
    December 12, 2008 at 16:43

    A so-called Modest Proposal

    I sure would like to see Michael Moore appointed as “Car Czar”. He started out with “Roger and Me”, his film on General Motors.

    Michael Moore knows about the problems of the people who work for the car manufacturers.

    An American friend and I were talking about this today. I don’t worry about GM, but I worry about about all of the employees who are selling off their health care and pensions in order to make ends meet. People who are going to be laid off. People who have worked in the same job for 30 – 40 years.

    Maybe somebody could suggest the idea to Mr. President Elect Obama? In Denmark, criminals sometimes get community service as a part of their sentence. Michael Moore sure could do some community service in Michigan. I am not comparing him to criminals, but he is one of Bush 2’s biggest critics and an astute critic of the problems of the Auto Industry.

  21. 21 roebert
    December 12, 2008 at 16:59

    Victork: Yes, Steele’s article is a nice bit of the old leftist cant. But I was not referring to Soames’ attempts to tweak the election results, which was a meaningless (and rather stupid) endeavour. Too late for that. I was speaking about the years of heavy British pressure put on the Smith government until it finally collapsed. I can’t help smiling (wanly) when I see Steele’s gratuitous ‘racist’ dig at Ian Smith. What Smiths ‘racism’ foresaw, is exactly what is taking place in Zimbabwe today. It was a ‘racist’ foresight identical to that of the White government of South Africa, which foresaw what is about to happen in South Africa in the next decade, with Jacob Zuma as the starting point.

    At the time, both the Rhodesian and South African ‘racist’ governments were urgently seeking ways to end injustice and create forms of inclusive government that would prevent the ruin of their countries. What the vociferous ‘world’ (as you define it; the leftist ideologues) insisted on by means of sanctions, isolation and other threats, was simple majoritarianism. Well, now they have it.

    As for Mugabe’s ‘intelligence’, it calls to mind nothing so much as the composite triune criminal mind of Conrad’s “Victory”, a mind made up of ‘evil intelligence, animal cunning, and brute force’. And I may as well add that the only ‘victory’ Whites in these countries can hope for, is that achieved by Axel Heist.

    Read J.M Coetzee’s “Disgrace”, and understand what is happening here.

  22. 22 Adrian Hilton
    December 12, 2008 at 17:18

    If I was in work, and I am not at the momement, I would rather take a pay cut than a redundancy cheque.
    Recently the workers at JCB voted to take a £50 per week cut in their wages and to me it is far better to do that than end up signing on at the Job Centre.

  23. 23 VictorK
    December 12, 2008 at 17:49

    @Jake: an interesting parallel.

    Finland was a Swedish colony for centuries (over 500 years). It has a population of 5.2 million. Its GDP was $188 billion in 2007. Its per capita GDP was $36,000. Finland has never had colonies or had anything to do with African colonialism.

    Kenya was a protectorate or colony for just under 80 years (prior to which it never actually existed). It has a population of 38 million. Its GDP in 2007 was $61 billion. Its per capita GDP was $1,700. Kenya was never part of the trans-Atlantic slave trade.

    With an eighth of Kenya’s population, Finland produces three times more.

    It’s facts like these that make some of us impatient with African complaints about the West and present-day African failures.

  24. 24 VictorK
    December 12, 2008 at 18:07

    @roebert: thanks for the clarification.

    I agree with you re the pressure put on Rhodesia, and take the same view of South Africa.

    I don’t believe in intervention except in the rarest of circumstances – physical or cultural genocide, neither of which were the case in southern Africa. The genocides that were actually happening in other parts of Africa, of course, went unnoticed and uncriticised by the West and the left (and in some cases were, on the technical side, facilitated by Western governments), who have the racist habit of holding whites to completely different standards to blacks (which is why there will never be intervention in Zimbabwe).

    I’ve made a note of the Coetzee title you mention.

    The Iraq lesson is that if intervention is to work it requires a spirit of change and capacity for practical reform in the people on whose behalf you are intervening. The fact that 15 million Iraqis have never been able to produce a single good idea about securing their political future should have been a warning. Similarly, Zimbabweans appear to have no political ideas, beyond getting rid of Mugabe, that will go towards securing their country against despotism. Where are the equivalents to America’s ‘Founding Fathers’ in these countries? Inaction is the wisest course with such people.

  25. 25 John LaGrua/New York
    December 12, 2008 at 18:45

    No bail out ,the companies should file for bankruptcy aNd rEorganize to restore some possibility of a competetive auto industry.Aid should begiven to workers who are in need .The US government in its mindless policies gives billions of dollars in foreign aid to countries who either waste it ,steal it or misuse it.Egypt anfd Isreal receive at least 5 billion dollars a year ,aid to Isreal over the 20 years has amounted to 150 billion dollars,despite the fact that it has a per capita income equel to france.The US congress is irresponsible and its profligacy is a way to buy votes from various lobbying groups. Add to this 10 billion to Pakistan and 10 billion dollars a mionth in Iraq. We must make a clean break with the folly of the past if we are to save our economy and freedom.CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.!

  26. December 12, 2008 at 18:45

    Help, Please Help
    Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni says: “I am willing to give up a part of the country over which I believe we have rights so that Israel will remain a Jewish and democratic state in which citizens have equal rights, whatever their religion.”
    In the next breath she says: “There is no question of carrying out a transfer or forcing them [Israeli Arabs] to leave.”
    Surely this is a contradiction in terms, or, at best, a fallacy. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7779087.stm

  27. 27 Katja Biesanz
    December 12, 2008 at 19:17

    It is interesting that multi-millionaire senators want to grind down working people.

    The difference in incomes between upper management and assembly workers has gotten exponentially bigger and bigger. I think the line workers have continued to do a good job. This has not been so for the executive decisions.

    This seems like pay-back — the unions usually campaign against Republicans, who often seem to help the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle class sliding down in adjusted income.

    Unions have already made a lot of concessions to keep jobs in the country.

    Has anyone talked about the US economy crashing because so many jobs have been taken overseas to underpaid workers, while the corporations continue to enjoy tax-cuts and even subsidies?

  28. 28 Liz - San Jose, CA, USA
    December 12, 2008 at 20:19

    Re: Auto Bailout

    I have had mixed feelings about the Auto bailout – I have very little sympathy for the senior management of the Big 3 – however, I am concerned about the knock on effect of potential bankruptcy will have with many other companies dependent on automakers for their businesses to survive.

    Senior management have been truly asleep at the wheel, more focused on trying to fiddle mileage and emissions measurements and the demise of the electric car. It is outrageous that the automakers say they need funding for innovation – which really begs the question of their competency to run their companies.

    This incompetence is not just limited to the auto industry. We have been inundated with stories over the last months about Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, Citigroup, and the list goes on. Corporate America is a mess – run by people earning enough money that they have little grip on reality, paying themselves stock options, bonuses – but it is always the rank and file who take the hits. What these executives AND the company boards have done is egregious – they should be paying the price for their ineptitude, but it won’t be them – it will be the people who can ill afford to take a pay cut or lose their job in the first place.

    These executives should be ashamed.

  29. December 12, 2008 at 21:38

    Give each American Federal Tax filer a $100,000.00 stimulous check. Let them decide on which homes to buy out there in the market place, and what autos to buy.

    The banks willing to make good 4% fixed, 30 year loans can end up with good down payments and do fairly well in a changed world.

    The remaining 700 billion should be called back. Financial institutions who made really corrupt, below prime, variable loans need to simply return the paper they hold………on up the line to all the crooks who formed weak securities on assets, and a deck of cards, that they knew were not going to be honored. They can try to recover some of the bonuses they paid to corrupt CEOs.

    The game of musical chairs ends with loss being incurred at the top of the food chain……..as Capitolism makes an adjustment, and cleans itself out of stupid people who tried to take advantage of customers who they well intended to profit on in a totally criminal way.

    Have the FBI track and follow the money and strip it from those who caused the problem in order to start paying back the treasury …….. the 700 billion. It is called Justice and the free market place making an adjustment to crooks who did not police themselves very well.

    I’m a retire-ee. I make $1,000 a month and did everything I could working for the Government. Went to their wars, served honorably, and worked hard for the Federal Government for 28 years. Cannot afford to sacrafice any of my retirement money. In fact I need more in order to make it. I’m 65 and want a job.

    Volunteer to go to Afghanistan to fight the evil ones to end this thing over there in order to let the society get on with spending things for Americans so the kids do not have such a burden and can afford health insurance, and a quality life.

    troop on the coast of Oregon

  30. 30 apexjd
    December 13, 2008 at 13:00

    There are so many option on the table,
    through which automakers can be saved and stand,
    but on the otherhand, if other side have to pay greater good is also better.

  31. 31 DENNIS
    December 15, 2008 at 00:08

    I think that it is not a good idea to gave: the big 3 companies any money!

  32. 32 Steve
    December 15, 2008 at 15:51

    @ Akbar

    The arabs have no qualms about making sure Palestinian territories are jew free. Why the double standard?

  33. 33 ~Dennis Junior~
    January 14, 2009 at 06:29

    [And, is there anything we wouldn’t sell on ebay? A grandmother has auctioned the best TV seat in her living room to stop rows in her family over Christmas. The lucky daughter in law and her son have secured the comfy seat with the best TV view for only £13.50. Not a bad deal!]

    How much is that in U.S. Currency…And, congrats for her ability to make a business decision…..

    ~Dennis Junior~

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