It was difficult not to be moved by the stories that we heard on yesterday’s programme. Not just by the situations some of you found yourself in during the attacks in Mumbai, but also the calm and understated way that you explained them to us. I’m sure anyone listening appreciated your coming on the show. Today’s programme will simply carry on where we left off yesterday, hearing your stories and reactions to what’s happening in Mumbai.
We’re hoping to speak to people who’ve been directly affected by the attacks including…
– officials working to make Mumbai safe
– those reflecting on witnessing the attacks
– doctors treating the injured
– Pakistanis reacting to their country being blamed by some
– Kashmiris reacting to one of the militants condemning the number of Muslims killed in their region
– BBC correspondents and local journalists in the city
– and foreigners who’ve left Mumbai in the past 48 hours.
Twitter page being updated by people all over Mumbai.
RSS feed
BBC World Have Your Say 
Hello Everyone,
Well its been almost 50 hours.It took some time but at least its over now.Now is the time to recover.As we know the operations have been through day and night.But one thing is clear after these attacks:India is not yet a safe place.Also this gives an idea of the fact that when we compare the development of India and China,this is the biggest disadvantage for India.Every time we compare the two the factor of security is considered and thats where India loses out.
I do hope India can recover soon from this crisis not just economically but also psychologically.
Thank you
Abhinav Khanal
Why didn’t the Israelis send their special forces to rescue the orthodox Jews held hostage in Mumbai?
Hi Ros/ WHYS Team:
I would like to endorse (again!) the sentiments expressed above. Yesterday’s show was really an example of radio at its best. It was so profound and touching all at once, as well as real. Thanks for that! Looking forward to today’s programme.
Hi James from Kenya, my condolences and thoughts are with those who lost their loved ones in the attack. Lets never forget the peace we have we got to fight to keep it.
India and China,this is the biggest disadvantage for India.
——————————————————————————————
——– Might as well be comparing apples and oranges.
Chinese can pull one of their citizens off the street in put him in front of a firing squad as quickly as an afterthought. Citizens are scared to death to think about criminal transgressions.
India has some due process, and in free countries there are always going to be the miscellaneous violence, criminal activities, and corporate graft.
When push comes to shove, the Chinese could always nationalize western investments like Russia/Venzuela did the oil industry. For now it suits them to make gobs of money selling adulterated junk to the west for profit while absorbing their investment dollars to build infrastructure.
Chinese run a tight tolitarian ship of commerce and India a loosely organized democratic ship of commerce. Much easier for Islamic extremists to attack the latter.
hi ros,
these are some of the scenarios we are surpporting the death penalty for, just look at the innocent lives that have been lost, and will be lost to terrorism, all in the guise of, fighting for their right and liberation. what just is there to unleash terror and trauma on people, for your own foolish course, i just wish the people of mumbai, india and the entire world a peaceful environment. may peace prevail on earth.
The world continues to fail to take the threat of terrorism seriously. This and far worse could happen anywhere in the world. BBC is more than complicit, it actually takes the side of the terrorists. It belittles what efforts are being made such as by derogatorily referring to “President Bush’s so called war on terror.” Unless and until there is a much more serious effort made to stop it even more and greater tragedies will occur. Nor can terrorists be allowed sanctuary anywhere in the world by notions such as national sovereignty that they use to their advantage. What’s more the use of civilians as human shields by terrorists can’t be allowed to interfere either. When civilians die in battles with terrorist, they should be seen as the terrorists victims, not those of the attackers of terrorists. Areas in Pakistan and Afghanistan are primary examples of where terrorists have been allowed to flourish. Gaza and the West Bank of the Jordan River is another. Iran and Pakistan are governments which have aided teorrists. So is Saudi Arabia. The cultural and religious beliefs of those who give terrorists their hospitality and sympathy also cannot be allowed to stand in the way as these are terrorists allies as well. Nothing less than a worldwide war on these people can protect civilization from them. Until we accept and act on that, we are all at risk.
i just stunned after seeing such kind of activities-OMG!its extremely horrible and unbeleiveable.
HOpefully Indian administration can trace out they root of the attack.One think i should mention here-religion is just a sham of the attack or terror activities-They are terrorist its more important rather than what religion they belong.
The way Bharat is avoiding to resolve dispute with Pakistan is not healthy at all for both of them, only benifical for foreign forces, ultimately Bharat will resolve the Kashmir, Hyderabad, Khalistine & Tamal issues in a hard way, as free world may not support & appreciate forcefull occupation on any nation including Kashmir.
If we study the case Bharat is abusing human freedom & UN resolution with a bluff playing attitute in Global Community, which may not be tolrated by UNO & other international lobbies.
Infact Bahart case is very weak in this regard & dont have ability to face Pakistan being a safe guard of MUslims in Bharat, specially Kashmir.
Presance of 800 thousand Bharti Army & socalled election’s in Kashmir are opening doors for foreign conspericies & justification for presance of Foreign forces in the immediate region & there presance will hold the progress & prosperity of both.
Blaming to Pakistan for Bharti political failour is an old tradation, which may not work in Terrorisam case as Pakistan is faceing same kind of challanges & Military operation’s for his own safety & world peace.
No doubt terrorisam have very short life, but enough to breake the foundation of Union style socalled Democracy of India, this is what so called friend’s of both are determind.
Bharat dont delay the peace apportunity to seperate Political movements with terrorisam, dont get involve in religion sectorism, dont provide plain field to foreigner’s for domination.
Unbelieveable Geographical changes in Europe & Central Asia will change the world economic strategies specially oil market. No doubt Afghanistan & Pakistan have Geographical importance to solve the puzzle & will help a lot to India & China too, in this regard China is working with Pakistan by way of building up a tunnell.
Future of Arab oil is under threat, may be ARAMCO will go out of business or atleat world oil prices will come down upto 25 cents per gallon.
Bharat please cooperate with the neighbour’s specially with Pakistan & China, by way of resolving political & border line issues, otherwise you will face uggly kind of Terrorisam all the time, please determin your goals & try to resolve Human desaster kind of issues with in Bharat.
What do you guys think about latest news out regarding some terrorists being british citizens. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7754931.stm ).
This makes this particular terrorism problem very much global.
Mumbai Terrorrist spoke in Urdu and had Pakistani Punjabi accent… thus its no doubt that these bastards came from Pakistan, the root of all evil! this country and its corrupt govt should be removed fromthe face of this planet!
I am disgusted by our government’s warning for Americans to stay away from India. After all the encouragement to continue our regular lives after 911 this is a betrayal of an ally and a victory for the killers.
Hi, World Have Your Say Team,
I hope you won’t focus on eyewitness accounts to the exclusion of the voices of those of us looking from afar on the situation in Mumbai with horror and disgust.
Earlier today I heard the High Commissioner (I think that was his title) of Pakistan in London denying that Pakistan had had anything to do with the attacks. Perhaps the nation of Pakistan did not, and independent Pakistani citizens might have. The Pakistani official suggested that Indian Hindus or Indian or Sri Lankan Tamils might have been the terrorists.
Given that a Jewish center was targeted and a number of Jews were murdered, I would like to know how many incidents of anti-Semitism perpetrated by Hindus or Tamils the Pakistani official can point to.
Anti-Semitism is deeply entrenched in Muslim society. The Pakistani official’s remarks are remarkably disingenuous and smack of a denial that is pervasive in Islam regarding atrocities committed by followers of the Prophet against another great religious tradition..
All the best,
Donnamarie Leemann
Switzerland
RE “” “President Bush’s so called war on terror.” “”
——————————————————————————————————-
——— First there was “The World According to Garp” and then the sequel, “” The World According to Gwjr.”
From “Life is a Box of Chocolates” to “Mission Accomplished, Good Job Brownie .”
Shame a real effort wasn’t made to combat terrorism the past 16 yrs, but when stupid people elect stupid leaders, stupid results lead to power vacuums where these islamic jihadists thrive best.
Way of the World 101.
@Mark: there are currently reports that two of the terrorists were British Muslims.
If this is confirmed, it shouldn’t come as a surprise (except to those congenitally naive Western liberals who are constantly being startled by the political facts of life). It would explain the terrorists’ anti-American, anti-British and anti-semitic motivations. Britain has long been a centre for Islamic terrorism, and the British government actively protects terrorists wanted in other parts of the world (it refuses to deport them to death penalty states; it won’t deport them to any state where they might be ‘mistreated’).
In all likelihood states like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are a lot tougher on terrorists than Britain (a few years ago Jiihadists and Islamists marched in London with placards inciting violence and murder against Britons, Europeans, Americans and the West – the British government’s response was to ensure that they were given a police guard so that they could march and threaten in safety).
If the terrorists turn out to be British (and if so almost certainly of Pakistani origin) it will be interesting to hear what the bloggers here who were happy to excuse terrorism because of the poverty, disease etc of Mumbai will have to say.
@rick : It is very clear from the many media reports that the terrorist attacks in Mumbai are clearly linked to Pakistani terrorist groups like Lashkar E Toiba. Pakistan has provided moral and monetary support to this group in the past but right now it portrays itself to be distant from the group. India has faced numerous attacks in the past from these groups but still has shown caution in retaliating. But India’s patience is seriously running out after having faced numerous attacks from these Pakistan supported terrorist groups on India’s parliament and its people. Something has to be done about this problem. But I disagree with you that the Pakistan has to be taken out or something like that. Terrorists are radical extremists. They are not the mainstream. They just hog the mainstream media. I wish the moderate people of Pakistan raised their voices and went against these radicals. That would go a long long way. The majority of the people in the world seem to be good, but the rotten ones prevail. Something has to be done to deal with these rotten ones only.
Pure and utter bunkum!
The world does take the threat of terrorism seriously – but, and please do this ASAP, look up the word ‘terror’ and then ‘ism’. Your rant is all about the fear that these cowards want!
If we let them scare us like you want then they have won – end of story.
The BBC is complicit in what way? Reporting the news instead of reporting propaganda?
At least, if you are going to attack in such a way – get your facts straight first.
Agreed, Roberto, agreed!
Let us hope that the solidarity this horrible event has brought about will carry over and help unify world sentiment against the continued spread of terrorism………Deepest condolences to all those who have lost loved ones, strength to those who have survived and are still in or around the continued attack……..
I am very distressed by the insensitive media coverage of the horrific events in Mumbai. Even as the siege at the Jewish community center and one of the hotels was ongoing and there was news of an increasing number of casualties, media coverage focused not on the human dimensions of the tragedy but on its geopolitical implications and its possible religious undertones. While there was negligible coverage of the impact of this catastrophe on the citizenry of Mumbai or the valiant efforts of the police to rescue hostages and restore order, B.B.C. engaged in an extensive discussion about grievances among disaffected Indian Muslims that may have led to this terrorist act and interviews with Indian Muslims about how these events might lead to an increase in discrimination.
This focus on a religious angle is most inappropriate at this time, particularly as there were Hindus, Muslims, Christians, and Jews among the innocent victims and the 200 million patriotic Muslims in India are as disgusted with this assault on innocent civilians as its remaining almost 1 billion citizens. The news media could instead have emphasized the dastardly nature of this assault, the incredible resilience of the people of Mumbai (the Bombay Stock Exchange and other offices were open on November 28), the remarkable outpouring of support from the international community, and the courage of the various first responders. International solidarity in confronting this global war on civilized societies waged by terrorists is essential. The media covering such tragedies around the world should always remember that it is local people who are the direct victims of these attacks as also its heroes. The BBC has the highest standards and should adhere to the excellent guidelines which it has developed for the coverage of such events.
This attack is just a symptom. What is the problem? Certainly we need to address the symptoms. But if we don’t go after the problem, it will just grow.
Is it the frustration of oppressed people?
Is it power hungry politicians?
Is it radical sects trying to impose their beliefs onto others?
We need to focus on the root causes.
Hey Ros,
I agree with Rawpoliticsjamaicanstyle’s today and yesterday comments.
I remember when WHYS did some shows in India, and your guys’ experience pays off in some definitly worthwhile listening.
Remarkable events with good news coverage.
Thanks,
Joey
Colorado, USA
Let us remember how many more have been killed and held hostage in Eastern Congo today in a single instance than in Mumbai the last three days. Let those of us who can afford to stay in 5-star hotels in Mumbai and Bangkok consider the plight of hostages, also known as refugees, in non-tourist places like Darfur and Somalia the world over. Let us consider the poverty and desperation that could lead so many attackers to give up their young lives in the Mumbai combat operation. Let us consider what it means to combatants to confront as they understand it British and “American” colonizers and foreign occupiers. Ostentatious displays of wealth and power are hazardous to the security of us all, wealthy and poor alike, something I well understand as a relatively aged criminal justice professor and as a relatively wealthy and privileged white man. Hal Pepinsky, Bloomington, Indiana USA
It’s really very very brutal incident carried out by the terrorist and you can not feel the real fear.
I saw on television that a lady talking to somebody in front of Taj and suddenly broke down and was cring very loud and it was the scene was really very very panic.
I won’t forget to this experience.
I am in mumbai and doing job here but now feel very insecure here.
thanks
Poonma Ram bishnoi
+919987520393
not really shocking but very sad. security was busy resolving the crisis created by some bad politicians to gain political milage . In hindi you have a story where a monkey eats the mango over which two cats fight.
todays era of internationalism instead of viewing ourselves as a planetry society they divide india into north aand south and any direction you can think of.
All around the world people feel sympathy for the people of mumbai
but the Officials of India compeletly neglect that and are ready to start the blame game with Pakistan to redirect attention from their security lapses and attrocities commited by indian authorities against the minorities
Hi world have your say team and readers. It is easy to blame the entire Muslim community for this dastardly act in Mumbai and many explosions earlier this year. I am sorry to hear many such comments on this forum as well that questioned the entire Muslim community. I wonder what will it take for all of us to believe that the majority of the Muslims are as peace loving as you and I are. If there is anyone to blame for these attacks, it is the cynical politics in India. UPA decided to go soft on terror. Any time you thought of the security situation being better, the home ministry thought it would anger the Musllims. They want to go soft on those who have been sufficiently drugged by al qaeda mentality; the politicians have no regard for the common muslims who are shedding tears with many from non-muslim communities. The true Muslim for the politician in India is the Jihadi sort.
@Rajiv: I think you’ll find that the BBC’s broadcast news journalists – not WHYS – will report this story in a way that is calculated to protect Islam from damage.
Of the pundits called on to comment, a disproportionate number will be Muslim.
A ‘context’ will be found that emphasises Muslim grievances, with more than a suggestion that these provoked the attacks.
The ‘T word’ will be avoided at all costs by substitututing references to ‘militants’, ‘attackers’ and ‘gunmen’ (I’ve just been listening to a BBC report).
While the whole world knows that the ‘militants’ are Muslims, the BBC will continue for as long as possible to either avoid mentioning that fact, or will grudgingly describe them as ‘suspected to be Muslim’ or ‘alleged to be Muslim’.
Should evidence turn up that the terrorists were principally or solely motivated by Islamic ideology, this will be downplayed and countered by supposedly objective journalists that the ‘gunmen’ were misguided followers of a ‘perversion’ of Islam.
The Rabbi and his wife will (continue to) be described as having been killed, or we will still be told that their bodies were ‘found’, not that they were murdered.
And so on.
Only the BBC can explain why it always does this, and what greater interest than truth it thinks it’s serving.
Mark, 4:21 pm,
I agree totally about the BBC’s complicity. It is complicit in that it minimises terrorist acts and actively chooses to disguise and distort the nature of terrorism. One of the main methods it uses is to avoid calling terror terror.
Yesterday on the World Service, when the impact of the horror in Bombay was first being felt, the T word was used occasionally and without quoting others in reports:
…terror attacks leave 100 dead…
…20 hours since they brought terror to Mumbai
But by today, the T word had been shelved, replaced by the typical BBC minimising of the impact of terror:
…where Islamic militants have taken hostages…
…these young men came ashore….
…being held by gunmen…
…determined gunmen…
I find that last one absolutely unbelievable. So is the fact that the BBC has a caption to a photo on one of the website articles with the words audacious attack. If the BBC wants to use adjectives, how about murderous or barbaric? How about a term that actually describes the attack?
This is absolutely disgraceful reporting from the BBC. Whose side is the BBC on?
Vijay November 28, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Why didn’t the Israelis send their special forces to rescue the orthodox Jews held hostage in Mumbai?
Israel offered and was ready to send them – and not only for the Jews, but to try to rescue any of the hostages or help in any way possible. India refused the offer.
I was following this in Florida on a news channel from India available on the net. Even though they were telecasting the proceedings live, it was really enlightening to isten to BBC for coverage of this issue. I would like to have 24 hour bbc channel dedicated to India. I am tired of listening to these immatured presenters on CNNIBN. Of course I also have problem for the recklessness with which these 24-7 channels were filling in the terrorists with whatever was being done outside the places in terrorists’ siege. Let us have some discussion on the media coverage of this incident.
Tara Prakash
I’ve been impressed by the restraint shown by all the callers from India, their refusal to turn this disgraceful event into an emotional sideshow and their willingness to look at the blunders of their own government. When asked for his view on whether the Muslim element was to blame, the caller from Bangalore said simply, ‘I agree.’
The security forces have also shown commendable reticence in not allowing any hints for media speculation, and focussing completely on carrying out the task at hand.
It seems that , whatever and whenever we hear from them, we’ll hear the facts rather than a sequence of guesses.
The questions were handled with delicacy and insight, too.
This was very honestly done.
Those who are really responsible for this barbaric act in India are also responsible for the recession in the US and Europe. God is watching. Please stop blaming the politicians ie. governments. They are simply pawns being used by evil people and until we all rise to rescue ourselves and for that matter them(the politicians) froml; the claws of these wicked men, please do not be afraid if democracy is sacrificed on the alter of security which will give credence to communism, etc. Did I read somewhere that the chinese government is able to deal with this issue better than india?
The sooner India can complete its investigations and bring the accused in custody to trial the better it will be to clear the air and end speculation of all sorts. The state of unpreparedness for a vital city like Bombay which has faced recurrent events of this nature in recent years was rather revealing. Long festering problems, like the one in Kashmir, adds to the present crisis manifold.
WHY complain about security? However much security we have, people bent on murdering other people will always find the way to complete their task and go to muslim heaven. Seems that muslims are the biggest culprits in random killings, If my fellow christians started random mass killings in MY name, in name of MY God and my Church leaders did nothing to condemn them over and over again – I would leave this church and tried to do something to disown them. Where are you IMPORTANT PEOPLE of Muslim world? What keeps you quiet? WHy don’t you close Muslim Heaven doors to those murdreres? They kill fellow muslims too!!! And all in the name of peaceloving religion. And they expect to go to heaven immediately as martyrs of course!!!!
Jola (Poland)
It is amaising to me that nobody is asking if there was any rdemands from the gunmen or any kind of negotiation with the indian commandos. such an organised act cannot be undertaken without certain goals to be achieved and if the goal was to kill as many poeple as possible then the gunnmen would have done it in much less time. 48 hours..this just tells me that the indian decision makers did not want to negotiate and that their pride was more important than the 150 innocent lives.
Here we go again. And the blame goes to ALL MUSLIMS OF THE WORLD.they are responsible!!!. From the Opressed palestinians in Gaza,Iraq to the filthy rich and opressive muslims in Saudi arabia, from the secularized muslims of turkey,indonesia and malaysia and the gulf-states to the “conservative” burka wearing women of afghanistan, from the educated muslims in europe,americas and iran to the un-educated in yemen.From the forsaken muslims in Somali,Sudan and chad to the progressive in south-africa,kenya and the rest of the world. They are ALL BAD. India for decades has been having similar ethnic violence,so wats so different witg this attack? But hey why dnt we blame everything on Muslims that way we cannot actually give ourselves a gud luk and ask difficult question, thats just too hard.
yes Saeed Ali. I BLAME YOU too. You did not utter ONE word of condemnation for this attack. You did not protest against muslim violence. You just said that there were many Muslims who are good and innocent and i believe you. However it is time good and innocent muslims marched and protested against using the name their God for murders most horrid. I remember famous cartoons. How united and vigorous your protests were then. Marches, sea of fists and even fires. It means if you want you are capable. Just the bomb here and bomb there doesnt seem worth your effort. Shame on you ALL . Hope you are going to feel well in Muslim Heaven where all mass murderers are as well.
Jola, Poland
I get back from Europe just now, found out all the Jewish hostages were dead. I realize how they oppress muslims from Bombay, Please, give me a break. someone needs to call out the ideology of hate that so many muslims have. Again, no other group on earth does this. stop killing people over your stupid fictional sky fairy. Idiots. Absolute idiots.
@Jola
When the IRA was carrying out attacks in Britain, Catholics around the world never raised their voices in condemnation.
Rather they raised money and kept the IRA well funded.
I really don’t see any people of any major religion speak out as one voice about what people do in the name of their religion.
Perhaps I am missing something. If so, I would be glad to hear about it.
What makes this attack different from all other terrorists attacks around the world? Could you please tell me how you see this as different from all the other atrocities carried out on a daily basis, even in India?
Are we just confused and distraught that the wealthy cannot protect themselves?
BY putting the “so called war on terror” in quotes says the BBC does not believe there is a real war on terror. But if you ask the victims or their surviving relatives, I think they would have no doubt there is a war on terror.
good question
hey they got to japan and got a robot in order to take there places do you all understand? they didn’t slept for 4 days the only thing they want is to stay a live so they dont want to die ( the terrorist). do understand that they want to survive, and if you say they only would be i jail for 6 years they would eccept this!so use psychology manipulating actions! thats the anwser for stopping this terroristing acction. i wanted to go to irak thats why i know how those people are!
M
RE “” Perhaps I am missing something””
——————————————————————————————–
——— Indeed, just the essence.
IRA/British conflict strictly regional, not global. Islamic terrorism is global and includes EVERYONE of any race, religion, or creed.
In short, it’s the difference between a tempest in a teapot to a full blown tempest. The Islamic reformation and civil war has arrived in full force and it won’t be sorted for at least a century.
Time for the rest of the world to adust policies towards Islamic immigration and trade accordingly and learn to live with it.
Diversified Bharat is a practical joke with Democracy, real public leader is really scared to take any position in Govt & dummy Mun Mohan Sigh is holding P.M. office with a reprensation of 0.50% of Indian Community.
I dont know how long this Union kind of Democracy will be united & survive with political blunders of Kashmir, Hyderabad, Khalistan & Tamal nissues.
Infact India need real public leader with a courage to adress core public issues.
Involvement of India in Pakistan Marriot Hotel presant the same picture & killing of hundreds of highly educated people in Pakistan also alloted to Indian state sponsered terrorist agents.
Please India quet with all these consperacies kind of attitute in global community, your blaming over Pakistan will not confuse to International community to understand correct & true picture of your UN resolution violation in regard to Kashmir & IAEA violation to obtain Atomic technology from USA.
Any way Indian rising dreem may not achieved with Ghandhi kind of contiminated, crocket & hipocrate Unionist kind Of So called Democracy with out any ability to resolve national security & political Mistakes of Kashmir, Hyderabad, Khalistan & Tamil.
Please try to understand basic pholospy of Pakistan because they want to live in peace this is why they demanded seperate land for Pakistan, if they believe in troubled life obiously they prefer to live in quesk kind of Indian Human desaster.
I meant to add that Have Your Say has inexplicably chosen not to put up a topic on the Bombay atrocities.
This all seems like another Indian movie directed by Indian Intelligence. only 10 terrorist had destructed the whole Mumbai. This is a clear failure of Indian Intelligence and law enforcement agencies. 10 terrorist can capture the whole Mumbai and engage hundreds of Army men for more then three days than what if the number of terrorist increase to 100 or 200 😉 .
Indians are such fools, cowards and extremist.
Jawwad Asif
Pakistan, Karachi.
life must continue for even after natural disasters,life does goes on.but leaders from either inside india or outside should not be quick to open their mouth and suggest that “these attacks are not by my people””….anyone CAN.
uthiru,tambua,hamisi,kenya.
I don’t think this attack was different than any other around the world. It was just another one to add to the list. Murdering unarmed civilians gets attention and a douzen terrorists were able to hold the world’s attention for 48 hrs. Mission accomplished. There seems to be a disproportionate number of these people with Muslim backgrounds at the moment. I don’t think its about rich vs poor so much as religion. It’s just that killing rich people gets more attention. Mohamed was a warrior who practiced terror and preached intolerance so maybe that has something to do with it.
Its all there in the Koran and the good guys (moderates)cherry pick the bits they like and the bad guys (terrorists)cherry pick the bits they like.
Conclusion.. Islam itself has some serious flaws it need to look at and rectify.
Here in Mumbai I saw crumbling principles of truth and non voilance .People of India have started questioning as to how long we are going tolerate such type of non-sence from across the border.Our missiles are only show-piece or what.People are ready for final show down at what ever cost .At least the future India and world will leave in peace .The British may be repenting for giving unnatural birth to the two headed monster.When Pakistanies talk about Indian Kashmir ,why they do not speak about Kashmir occupied by China why they do not speak about freedom to Pashtun tribes .Pashtuns were never with Pak and till today they are not protected by Paki Punjabis from US drone attacks. Why the Baluch should stay with Punjabi Pakis when their leaders like Bugati were brutally killed in US attacks.India on the other hand has provided all sorts of necessaties and better standard of life to the so called seperatists in Kashmir. Now they are also not inclined to go to the hell named Pakistan.I feel that Baluch and Pashtuns should take cue from Bangladeshis and declare indipendance to live in grace in future.If India gets solid proof of Pakistan’s involvement then all ties with Pak be snapped forthwith.
selena
you are comparing apples and oranges (no pun intended)
The insurgency in Ireland was not about religion. Both sides were christian. It was about the English subduing Ireland and trying to populate it with their own people. So the Irish rose up and tried to get their country back from the English. Quite a different story with the world wide jihad going on at the moment.
I wish someone could explain to what it is that the terrorists think they accomplish besides getting themselves and their religion ever more dispised.
There are lots of “oppressed” people on earth, yet it’s only the muslims that conduct attacks like this basically outside of Sri Lanka. Some other groups occasionally do things, such as ETA, but are few and far between and much more limited. Even the IRA would usually call in bomb warnings. Not all muslims are terrorists, but the vast, vast majority of terrorists are muslims, and if any other group had such a problem within it, the group would speak out and shout “not in my name!”
Clean your house now before we do it for you.
Mr Saeed Ali was talking about killing of Muslims in India. Just to make him aware of few situations:
Gujrat: First some Muslim extremist planted a bomb in a local train in Godhra which killed hundreds of innocent Hindus and obviously some Muslims however their prime target was killing HIndus. The family members of those Hindus who were killed were really angry and they started taking revenge. This resulted in shameful riot which left many poeple killed. Two wrong things do not make a right thing HOWEVER it was Muslims who started the killing first.
Mumbai 1993 Bomb Blast: Some Muslim terrorists planted a bomb near Bombay stock exchange which killed hundreds of people. Each and every Indian knew who were the culprits. This again triggered attacks on Muslims. Two wrong things do not make a right thing HOWEVER it was Muslims who started the killiing first. The culprits of this bomb blast have been living happily in Pakistan and enjoy a good social life. Why do not Pakistani’s speak against such people?
Kashmir: Pakistani army and Intelligence agencies have been supporting and providing arms to Kashmiri militants which have killed thousands of innocent people in Kashmir. Why don’t Pakistani people speak against these people?
Whole world knows about Taliban and the way ISI supported Taliban. This Taliban has been killing hundreds of people of every year. Why don’t Pakistani’s speak against these people?
9/11: It was first Muslims who killed thousands of innocent people, then US started its operation in Afganistan. Why did Muslims not make noise when these many people were killed in NY? Why are they comlaining now when US, UK are trying to flush terrorists in Afganisthan?
Please do not speak about ethnic community in India. They are much much better off as compared to Pakistan or any other Muslim country. Look at our Bollywood, all big stars are Muslims and we all Indians, irrespective of 70% Indians being Hindu, love them. Look at our cricket team, we have so many Muslims. Look at our previous president and current vice president, they are Muslims. We have a mosque, church and temple in each and every city.
How many non muslims presidents Pakistan has had so far? How many temples or church you have in Pakistan? Name any prominent Pakistani which was non muslim?
Countries like India and other western countries are much more tolerant when it comes to religion. Western countries are very rich, India is also developing very fast. Some sick people can not see progress of others.
@Selena – the IRA was not a Catholic movement, it was an Irish nationalist one.
Conttrary to popular opinion the Northern Ireland conflict was not a religious one. The religious labels of ‘Catholic’ and ‘Protestant’ alluded to a much more fundamental difference, which was the actual root of the conflict: indigenous Irish versus Anglo-Scottish settlers. It was a colonial war. Before it became the lazy fashion to refer to the conflict as one between Protestants and Catholics, it was characterised in a previous and better informed era by men like the historian Lord Macaulay as a struggle between the ‘Irishry’ and the ‘Englishry’ (i.e. an ethnic contest between the native and the settler).
The Catholics who supported Irish terrorism were almost entirely those of Irish blood.
The IRA’s ideology, btw, is nationalism crossed with Marxist-socialism, not ‘ultra-montane’ Catholicism.
You should also be aware that Cathoicism and Christianity generally have always been compatible with distinct national and ethnic identities. The problem with Islam is that it’s anti-national (except as far as Arab identity and traditions are concerned) and expects all Muslims to be loyal to the Umma, the world-wide Muslim community. That’s why Somalis, Jamaican converts, and Pakistanis can blow themselves up and plant bombs in London for the sake of Iraqis, Palestinians and Afghans.
@Saeed Ali: who blamed this attack on ‘all Muslims of the world’?
@Victor
the IRA was not a Catholic movement, it was an Irish nationalist one.
Tell that to all the apolitical ordinary people who donated to the cause. To them it was nothing but religion.
Things are never what they seem and, if human nature runs true to form, this global terrorist movement is not what it seems.
Get to the bottom of what is happening in the world today and you will find that at the level the plots are being hatched the philosophy has nothing to do with religion. Religion is a convenient means to distract the attention of the populace and attract crusaders.
My biggest question is: why is it so easy to find pawns on all sides who keep buying into hatred?
@Rick
Both sides were christian.
There is more hatred between the different sects of Christianity than between Christianity and other religions.
This hatred has always been extreme between Catholics and Protestants. But there is also hatred between the different Protestant sects.
You must be a young person brought up since that hatred has been somewhat tempered if you don’t remember that animosity persisted well into the twentieth century. In many families the flame is still flickering, ready to be ignited at any time.
Now is the high time for all of us to think is this what religion is for? Imagine a world without all these terrorist attacks and communal violences caused by hate and narrow mindedness of human beings not to accept the coexistence of other religions. Atheism is the solution.
Sandesh, Kathmandu.
Jawad Asif from pakistan commented that Indians are fools in a way that only 10 terrorists could hold up 100 of security forces for such a long time.
It’s true asif, yes 100’s of security forces were there. The only reason behind that is the Religion of India values the lives of people more than any other religion. We have lots of character and lots of potential in our citizens than the citizens of any other country. We value our people. And we will continue doing it.
In your country people might not have that much value. For your country or religion or society it might not matter whether you are living or not. You might be considered as a vegetable or an animal over there. So you cannot even imagine what is the meaning of a meaningful human life. Thats the reason nothing was done for the bomb blasts in pakistan. Because there it does not matter whether people live or die. It happens all the time there. There is no other job of the people there. There is no value associated with the people in your country.
Now it should be clear to you that who are the fools, cowards and extremists!
If there is need, just as you mentioned about 100 terrorists, each and every citizen of India will take them in their hands and instill terror in the terrorists. believe me we are capable of doing this. just wait for the opportune moment. Its not the security forces, its the caring hand of this great country. But the limit is going to be crossed soon as it seems.
Keep discovering asif. There is more to learn!
Indie
Infact histry of hate & revange started from Ghandhi, as soon as this evil reach to India blend little Hipocracy in his hate & revange theory, simultianiously he want to take revenge from Birtish & Muslims of India. He was worst then any modern terrorist because he was champion of hipocracy, this is what MUslim’s quickly observe & decided to seprate them from desastor kind of Ghandhi pholospy, because they want to live in peace with all dignity.
This is how Pakistan seprated from Indian HUman desaster under Mohammad Ali Jinnah leadership.
Since the first day of independance Pakistan is faceing Ghandhi style Indian Terrorisam, a briefing is available for WHYS perusal:-
– over 200,000 muslims genoside, between 1947 to 1948.
– Forcefull occupation over Kashmir in 1948 by way of landing Indian army.
– Forcefull Occupation over Hyderabad State along with robbery of Muslims by
Indian Army.
– In 1952 attempted to occoupy East Pakistan by way of making a deal with General Officer Commonder of Pakistan & endedup a big mess & POW’s, as
Pakistani General was not available for Sale.
– 1971 along with former USSR create a political vacumme & seprated East
Pakistan from West Paklistan.
– 1984 attacked over innocent Siks Holliest place “Golden Temple” & killed
over 4,000 Siks.
– Attack & demolish Babri Mosque in Gujrat & killed over 100 innocent Muslim’s.
– Numerious attacks over Muslims neighbour hoods for nothing but Ghandhi
style mission.
With all this violent histry what dose Indian Govt expect from minorities of India.
Existance of Pakistan commonly stop Hate, bias & hipocrate Ghandhi type of
practice in the region.
For any kind of verifcation please check Indian Office Library London & UNO resolution’s & Pakistani agetatio’s are also available in UNO record.
I think with all these blunders survival of India is in question. Please eleminate
Contiminated Ghandhi style from your behaviour, please live in peace & let
your neighbour’s live in peace too.
By the way Providing Atomic Scientist’s to Iran & then snitch on Iran in one of the current horribal face of India.
With all my heart I wish India rise with dignity & respect.
I am from South Bombay and I have felt sick to my stomach watching this siege in a neighbourhood where i was born, and where I studied. To all those who insist this is some kind of retribution for the perceived oppression of Muslims in India, I suggest you read a blog post by an Indian Muslim. He writes today that he has had nothing but the best education and a great job, and his name is Mohammed. He interrogates the claim of widespread discrimination of Muslims in India. He talks of the enormous opprotunities he’s had and he also accepts instances of discrimination. India is not perfect, he says, but any protests that have to be made he’ll do it himself, within our great democratic system, and without the help of foreign terrorists who have NO IDEA about the ground reality in India. His last sentence: if you want to blow yourself up , do it in your country, and stay out of mine.
If religions were not available as carriers for political ideologies and agendas, some other philosophical carrier would be found. The surprising thing is not that religious extremism does breed terrorists, but that those who carry out these acts in the name of their religion, or by its tenets (Jihad, for example), are not excommunicated by the highest authorities of that religion. The Roman Catholic Church should have excommunicated IRA terrorists. The same holds good for Islam.
Any solution is final by definition. You and I are not in my view machines. At the same time, it is fundamental to me that you and I and everyone want to belong and have our bodily expressions remembered want to have our bodily material expressions remembered somehow well. It’s a human work in progress:-)
The Mujahidin try to persuade us that Islam knows no humane feelings. Make war, not love. Their Allah still hates Adam’s and Eve’s offspring and their pro-phet is nothing but pro-death. I am sure most Muslims abhore these views. But it is disturbing to realize, that popular sympathy for Al Qaida is widespread in the Muslim World, that Europe’s banner-bearers of modern anti-Semitism are Muslims, that Islam’s way of resisting minorities, e.g. the few Jews of Palestine in the 1830’s or 1920, ’21, ’29 was murder, rape and destruction. Muslims like the Mujahidin and their offshoots target the world’s civilians indiscriminately as their enemies. Without understanding and combating this facet of Islam the world will never be safe.
Someone asked why 10 terrorists could hold off hundreds of commandos.
This is not because we’re ‘incompetent’, as the person suggested, but
1. because the terrorists were armed to their teeth, used hostages as human shields, and had explosives all over the place.
2. because we are a civilized state that does not believe in barging in, guns blazing and thinking ‘to hell with the consequences.’
3. because our superior commandos wanted not only to ensure all guests and hostages were rescued safely (600 were rescued), but also had to make sure the Taj, a historic monument, was not damaged in reckless firing.
India will never forget what they did for the nation.
Syed
Pakistan is a basket case and India is a rising world power. It is a pity for you that Jinnah chose to separate. As far as hate goes, you bring it upon yourself. Pakistan is the epicenter of world terrorism.
What is wrong with you people?
Why do people cling so strongly to religion without recognizing the role of class and caste and the symbolism of colonialism?
ps–oh yes, and cling to nationalism, may nation states come to rest in peace. Suppose we stop worshiping the false gods of country and names for higher forces. I say Mumbai is first and foremost about bread for the brothers and sisters of frontline soldiers like fhose from the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, and those who stormed Mumbai.
Rick:
Those who are defining them terrorist just few years before they define them freedom fighter’s, the message of India is apporchnist & Hipocracy of Unionist Ghandhi style.
Infact India is terrorising Kashmir, Hyderabd, Tamal & Sikhs from uncountable years, beside that crimes against humanity histry will speak out from presance of 800 thousand Indian army in Kashmir & Militry action on holliest Golden temple against Sik minority. No doubt Tamal are real hard for Indian army & Govt.
In other words India is terrorising his own people since the birth, beside that Birtish & Muslim rule dont have any problem because Contiminated Ghandhiism was not in the region.
This is why for the sake of humanity & valueable human lifes This violated corrupt & apportunist Unionist style so called Democracy need to be shut down like former USSR.
Syed
I always thought Ghandhi taught non-violence and tolerence. Iv’e read a biography and seen the movie so I must have missed something.
However, now I think I understand. You are so stuck in percieved past injustices that you cannot work positively for your own future well being. Revenge is going to solve nothing, only start another cycle. Perhaps that is particularly difficult for people of Islamic faith. How can Pakistan move forward toward a brighter future if all they do is look backward at the past?
@Selena: while some non-Irish Catholics may have contributed to the IRA, I think you’ll still find that the bulk of overseas support for them came from people of Irish descent, especially in the US (and we in Britain have not forgotten the complicity of US politicians – now bent on a ‘war on terror’ – from Presidents, Congressmen and the Kennedy family down, in welcoming & celebrating the leaders of the IRA in Washington, New York and Boston. I’m surprised bin Laden hasn’t remarked on this in one of his video rants). There was no general, world-wide Catholic sympathy for the IRA (though as roebert noted, the Irish Church and the Vatican were both remiss in not taking a tougher line on membership of that body. But then, the Catholic Church has never been just about religion).
Rick’s particular interpretation isn’t one that I share, but his general point is sound: the conflict was not about religion but competing ethnic and colonial interests. If the Irish had been black it would have clarified the matter very helpfully (the Protestants were the ‘white minority’ who admittedly usurped the country, but who also civilised it, made it their home, and were largely responsible for what prosperity and culture it could claim. There was also, though, a serious debit side regarding their treatment of the ‘natives’). The Elizabethan, Jacobean and Cromwellian settlers regarded the Irish in the same way that their kin did the native Americans: barbarians encumbering the land.
It’s interesting to observe the trajectory of one of the responses on this thread to Mumbai: sympathise with the terrorists by relating (on no evidence at all) their actions to issues of social justice, economic deprivation, Islamophobia and caste, and attack India relentlessly, to the point of blaming it for the bloodshed because of incompetent handling (again, based on almost no evidence at all of how the Indian security forces conducted themselves) of the crisis.
But just as Islamic terrorism and slaughter of innocents shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, neither should left-liberal apologies for and solidarity with terrorists. The left can be disappointingly predictable: you need only know if a country is Western or pro-Western to know how it will be regarded by them in a crisis like this (with suspicion and hostility).
@Syed: if you are a Pakistani then you should declare your interest as one. Your Indophobia is grotesquely one-sided and only distorts and trivialises the valid criticisms that you might otherwise have to make (and it’s just as hard to take seriously your seeming impression that poor, suffering, pious, peace-loving Pakistan has had nothing to answer for since partition). A subject as deep and intricate as this deserves a more considered response, especially from those whose roots in the region give them the benefit of deeper knowledge of the issues (or so you’d think).
The recent attacks on Mumbai are symbolic of how militant fundamentalists perceive and target Western interests, i.e. bringing mayhem to the financial capital of India, singling out Westerners… The attacks have become more brazen, well coordinated, and difficult to prevent in a society that values “openness.” Our countless attacks on civilians, often excused as “collateral damage” is creating a global atmosphere of hate against Americans. We should exercise more restraint and be more empathetic with causing unnecessary civilian causalities in areas of conflict. The numerous and unyielding air-strikes in places like Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq have caused countless civilian casualties among the local populations, this practice is dangerous and counterproductive.
We should focus on winning the hearts and minds of the local tribal societies, by engaging in dialogue, rebuilding infrastructure and cooperation with the tribal leaders. Our policies should focus on “building communities” and on “winning the support of the local cultures…” What has happened in Mumbai really makes me think of three profound questions; “how many Islamic people and tribal societies from the region that we are engaged in, will continue to hate Americans for generations to come…?” “Could they pull off a similar attack in NYC…?” and finally, “is the world a safer place for Americans, courtesy of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney’s GWOT and there foreign policy actions abroad?”
The recent attacks on Mumbai’s Hotel’s, restaurants and other visible public establishments are symbolic of Westerners and the elite being targeted. The attacks were carried out in an Al Qaida style, choosing multiple targets, capitalizing on global media attention, creating mayhem, fear and chaos. These attacks were designed to cause havoc and to damage tourism and the Indian financial markets, creating renewed tensions between Pakistan and India. “Is the world a safer place since, 9/11…?” I certainly do not think so…
Selena in Canada,
Many points very well made indeed, in all your posts here! I’ve noticed before and should’ve commented then. But I am making a point of doing so now.
I happen to be Catholic by baptism, but am not a strict adherent to the doctrine or elements within the faith, let alone a regular worshipper. But like you I know the history and how far it reaches back and the conflict as you said almost on tenterhooks as to whether it may spark up once again when we’re least expecting it to do so, particularly when our collective mind is so focused on “The Islamic Terrorist” and all that emanates from this and is linked through our media battering us into metaphorical submission and forcing us to accept the “Great Satan in our Midst” and similar emotive terms to keep us on our guard and fear of the unknown and unseen dark and foreboding elements threatening all our daily existences.
What did we all do before Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda became bywords for us to tremble at the very hearing of and site of the evil, snarling bearded one.
Terrorism in all its manifestations has been around for thousands of years and sadly will continue as a terrible means to an end of some sort. It is the most vicious, psychologically damaging and soul penetrating form of armed conflict ever devised. But it is nothing new!!! What a terrorist does is wrong and there’s no two ways about it. What an invading army and occupier of sovereign foreign territory does is equally wrong and you can not separate one from the other, as we are so loathe to do courtesy of the vast misinformation, deliberate misleading and manipulation of more than 80 per cent of western media.
I sympathised with the IRA’s cause at one level but could and can never condone the terrorist/freedom fighter acts they carried out. I was subject to more than one instance of being so close to having been caught up in unpleasant incidences and circumstances in the UK re. IRA attacks. I didn’t enjoy the experience let me tell you. But until 9/11 most US citizens were so divorced and removed from UK citizen’s daily reality and what we all had to live with for more than 30 years.
Equally can I in no way condone Islamic terrorists so called. But for example before the Bali bombs, there was a history of regional conflict going back at least 50 years, well before Osama, Al Qaeda and all the other connected disparate elements and factions. Everybody needs to examine their history a lot more closely, and not that of just the last decade!!!
World is a safer place to live if you are not involve in crime against humanity, injustice & freedom kind of crimes.
Look at the Ghandhi being a victom of hate, double standard & injustice he went out of sences & revive old timer hindoo culture full with the hate & revange with each & every one without having knowledge of good & bad impact over human society.
No doubt Hipocracy have very short life & truth always long lasting, this is what is happening in India. I think india will pay worst price if he never learn from mistakes. I am unable to understand India rising from where & to what, only one thing is noticeable that is histry of crime against humanity, or human desaster to tragedies. May god safe minoritees from majority in India as evil Ghandhi is sitting in each & every heart & mind in India.
Palestinian christians live in the same exact “conditions” as other palestinians, yet they don’t go on mass killing sprees, so I’m curious who exactly the problem lays with? What’s the commonality around the world when there are terrrorist attacks these days? Oh that’s right, it’s not PC to say who actually does it, lets just say it was east germans who did this and continue to ignore who is killing people over the fictional sky friend.
I was very, very disappointed by the reaction of the Indian leaders when this whole thing began. One of the first things the Prime Minister did was start pointing fingers. That was totally not the thing he should have worried about – who was to blame – what he needed to do was make sure everyone knew what HAD TO BE DONE. Pointing fingers OUTSIDE may be convenient and perhaps a viceral response, but leaders are not elected for viceral responses; Leaders are elected to take charge. From what I saw, there was no one taking charge, other than trying to place the blame. First things first – look at what is wrong INSIDE and remedy that and then start looking outside. There is a saying which seems very appropriate – one can be hyper aware of the mustard seeds under someone else’s feet while ignoring the rotting pumpkin under their one feet.
It is time for introspection. An attack of this magnitude does not happen without some complicity and responsibility within. Stop blaming others; start examining yourself.
RE “” singling out Westerners…””
—————————————————————————————————————————–
——— Reports I’m hearing is the vast majority of the dead are Indian as might be expected.
The media generally gets things wrong in the fog of war. Targeting westerners is a fanciful notion put out by western press to justify their personal siege mentality.
Islamic jihadists went in for purpose of consensus murder and mayhem in a high profile economic center. What limited targetting they did was storming the tiny Jewish center as there was but one purpose there.
I was walking to a party at Henry Tham, a bar next to the Taj when I heard firing in the street ahead and encountered a crowd of people running away. Someone told me it was Mumbai gangsters on motorbikes who could drive down the road any minute. So I went back to my guesthouse just next to Nariman house (as it turned out) and watched the news. We kept indoors and tried to sleep with bombs going off again and again around us, and regular machine gun fire. On the third day we paid a man to drive us out of the curfew in Colaba.
We watched the Taj burn from the seaside when the street battles had let up. We were able to walk right up to the Taj outer walls at any time, the police seemed totally incompetent, they didn’t even maintain a perimeter. The army turned up in buses, BUSES! We didn’t hear any helicopters for the first two days. The army commandos trying to climb into the Taj were in scrappy uniforms, looked terrified and completely unfit for purpose! Now safe many miles away! Having tea with the Maharaja of Kolhapur.
Tom
I repeat: Ostentatious displays in the midst of abject poverty make the rich and powerful vulnerable. Maybe, caught as we are in a debt crisis, this should be a lesson to people of means like, I assume, all of us posting here, to think about living within our means, about living simply and gently with mother earth, about empowering the poor to live sustainably and independently. Generally speaking, I consider conspicuous consumption to present our nearest and clearest danger.
@Matthew
Thank you for your kind words.
It is not possible to judge anyone’s motives on the basis of what is being fed to us by others with a particular aim. It is more enlightening to look at history and the roots of the evil which exists, as you so eloquently point out.
Many people died in Mumbai and that is sad and depressing. Yet, while that was happening many people were dying elsewhere from starvation and disease brought about by the history of a world of people who care for nothing but our own selfish ends. Yet people are shocked when we equate the two.
In my opinion, no matter how foreign reading the history of others sounds to people who believe their cause to be the only right one, it needs to be be read.
Compassion is the ingredient that seems lacking in all of us. But I truly believe that at the heart of every human lies compassion. We have simply been taught well to bury and ignore compassion in favor of pushing the agenda of leaders who feed us a steady diet of patriotism and democracy while we thump our chests repeating their mantra “we are the best”.
India is a democracy! But look beneath the surface and what do you find?
Thank you for your kind words Selena. I find them comforting.
@Hal
Thank you, too. 🙂
If enough of us try to forget our own beliefs in favor of getting to the roots of the evil which exists, there may be hope.
You know things can change very fast when ordinary people decide they are not going to play the game anymore.
We must always remember that hate mongers would get nowhere without us to push their agenda.
It’s interesting that none of the international media outlets report about the number of Kashmiri Pundits killed by militants and terrorists in Kashmir. When the Indian army does its job in Kashmir, the international stops short of reporting facts, almost supporting the terrorists in the process.
Why is that international media never bothers to report about how Pakistan has very openly aided and abetted Lashkar-e-Toiba in the past?
I think Pakistan has to get out of the mentality that India and Afghanistan are its foes. That mentality is what is preventing its Army and Ingelligence agency to get rid of these terrorist groups. It thinks that once US is gone from the area Afghans and Indians will probably take Pakistan to task. I think that is not going to happen. India is a vibrant democracy and an upcoming economic power. India has more things to do than to just teach Pakistan any lesson for harboring LET in the past. What Pakistan must do now is it has to gain courage and clean up its Army and its Intelligence agency and put in a lot of effort in wiping out these terrorist groups like Lashkar E Toiba and Jaish E Mohammed from its soil. It is not an easy task. But if that is not done this problem will persist.
It really intresting that beside 800 thousand Indian Army, semi terrorst minded Hindoo Pundit’s are moving in Kashmir just to complecate the peacefull political atmosphier in Kashmir.
Beside Indian Army & Religious Hindoo elements terrorist minded Medical force is also working in Kashmir & are busy in forecefull birth controll of Muslim’s of Infia. No doubt 75% of Kashmiri’s are Muslims & rest of the population consist to Typical Hindoo’s, Christines & others.
The challange to Indian Occupation is from Kashmiri Muslim’s as they dont want to live in Indian Human desaster, infact histry of Indian forcefull occupation over Kashmir started from 1948 in violation of Indian partation agreed rules, on the top of that UNO honour the challange of Kashmiri people & awarded an agreed resolution that India will conduct a refrendam in Kashmir just to know public openion, whether they want to affialate with Pakistan or India.
Sine 1948 India is trying to ignore public refrendam in Kashmir in violation of UN resolution , on the top of that using Indian Army & Extreem Hindoo elements with all sort of abusive attitute to support the unhumanites of Indian Govt.
My gift to you. From Al Jazeera. Posters are commenting about the Mumbai attacks, and they’re blaming it on the “zionists”. I’m just curious, what age to they start teaching muslims to hate jews? This is absolutely disgusting, despicable, yet SO predictable. They are really playing the stereotype VERY well on al jazeera. I guess I know the mentality of the people who read that news source.
http://english.aljazeera.net/your_views/centrals.asia/20081126184752680345.html
Syed, I am personally grateful for your honesty, thank you.
Jeez, Rick, calm down! You’re doing exactly what the terrorists want! Isn’t that the knee-jerk reaction that Bush got sucked into?
It doesn’t matter WHERE they come from or where they trained – they were not sent by some foreign country and represent no particular nation. Pakistan may well have been practical for them in terms of organisation and enclaves of help and sympathy, but don’t go and say the Pakistani nation is behind an attack like this as it would serve them no purpose whatsoever.
Hey Steve. I speak to you as one who by accident of birth is a russian jewish white anglo-saxon protestant, etc. At what age are you taught to start suspecting muslims. As a child I was taught takes one to know one. In 1990 I enjoyed the hospitality of a devout muslim family in dar es salaam, the only “mzungu” in the neighborhood, where a cousin of my host made it known to me that his god was the god of jews and christians. The guy with an office next to mine is Oklahoma Cherokee and calls monotheism “patriarchal desert cults.” A pox on all our houses…or so I’m thinking. What say?
My only point is that all the nationality and religiosity stuff is beside that point. The person who comes across as religiously different probably in this network is of an an elevated class. That’s all I mean to say. These messages are as much a mea culpa from a privileged person as anything. Bottom line for purposes of this discussion: as a retiring criminologist, I feel no moral nor safety claim of superiority over any prisoner I have known. Current events humble this safe white guy.
So after all this the indian public is truely confused!!!There is so much of information going around confusing the masses that one just does’nt know who or what to believe?????????????
We may speculate that its the hindus or the muslims or the jews or the christian crusaders or some evil aliens wanting to take over the world doing this.
We let it rule our own judgement,we believe exactly what the media and the state presents us.
And we continue to be taken for a ride by the shrewd and cunning (though uneducated and illiterate)politician that hold reign of the entire population,making us a mere bunch of puppets in the end.
India can now either let someone else control thier lives and thoughts as they have always have or wake up and take things in thier hand!!!
Flush out the system of totally inept,corrupt and greedy politicians!!!
Btw Mr Turab…as always sounds strange and incomprehendable!!!
More people are thought to have died in the Nigerian city of Jos than in Mumbai, in what the BBC reported as ‘inter-communal’ violence between Christians and Muslims
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7757398.stm
As with Mumbai, one now expects stories involving Muslims and violence to be reported on in a certain way by the BBC (i.e. with a view to protecting Islam). ‘Inter-communal’ violence in a country like Nigeria is code for ‘the violence began when Muslims attacked Christians’ (which is invariably the case over there). This is implicit in the story, if you read between the lines, but the BBC – which would not have a problem reporting that Christians had attacked Muslims – doesn’t and won’t report this. In fact, that the hundreds of deaths in Jos are a result of initial Muslim violence can be divined from the BBC’s very failure to report that Christians had started the bloodletting.
For the sake of its own reputation the BBC really needs to review the standard of its journalism when it comes to reporting on Islam, domestically and internationally. The truth should trump any well-intentioned commitment to promoting ‘community cohesion’ or encouraging inter-faith understanding or dispelling Islamic ‘stereotypes’ (such as the view that Islam is a creed that generates violence).
As usual we get the “Muslims condemn Mumbai attacks, worry about image,”
Of course, there is one thing they could do and that would be they actually begin to make people think better of Islam. And that would be to begin to saturate mosques and madrassas with the message that jihad warfare is never justified, that the imperative to subjugate unbelievers under the rule of Islamic law must be decisively rejected, and that peaceful coexistence as equals with unbelievers is to be maintained indefinitely. If Islamic clerics stopped talking about conquering Europe and America, and began to teach the opposite, things might begin to improve. If Muslim leaders worldwide energetically pronounced takfir upon — that is, declared to be non-Muslim — all those who maintained belief in the Qur’an’s literal words of warfare, and in the traditional Islamic doctrines regarding jihad warfare , and upon anyone who wished to impose Sharia upon unbelievers by whatever means and at whatever speed, and if those leaders demonstrated their sincerity by actions instead of mere words, informed non-Muslims might begin to think better of Islam.
Of course this has never happened and any non-Muslim who points out the ways in which jihadists use Islamic texts and teachings to justify violence and supremacism is a “bigot” or a “racist.”,
Saudi Arabia condems th Mumbai attack, but continues to funnel money to Muslim militants in Kashmir. Typical of the double game and hypocrisy in the Muslim world.
Tabeer wrote, ‘Btw Mr Turab…as always sounds strange and incomprehendable!!!’
I doubt if he’d be published here if that really were the case.
Allowing for the fact that English is not the first language of many people on this forum, I don’t think there’s any reason to dismiss Syed Hasab Turab, or anybody else, for allegedly being incomprehensible simply because his isn’t The Queen’s English.
There’s not a lot that I’d find to agree with Syed about, but that’s only because he does get his meaning across, and without any ‘strangeness’ (one-sidedness is another matter).
It’s always better to address yourself to the message, rather than the messenger.
I think on the whole, people get what they deserve and history plays itself out according to the forces at work. If governments won’t take the war being waged against civilization by “Islamic militants” as BBC calls them seriously and people don’t demand a radical change from their governments such as relentlessly hunting down these people wherever they are and whatever it takes as their number one priority, then the attacks will only continue to increase in frequency and severity. Eventually the world will react…but maybe not until one or more cities or nations are destroyed perhaps by nuclear weapons which fall into their hands. Most people including those who run governments are stupid.
It didn’t take long for US administration to disclose the identities of the 911 culprits. In the latest show down of terror in Mumbai, one asks, what fails Indian administration to follow suite? We hear only allegations from different media sides. That again contributes to nurture myths, as one is used to in this part of the world, rather than disclosing the identities of these murderers to the whole world.
Indian Administration owes it to all those innocent people the world over who perished in this terror attack.
Mark:-
A civilised aspect of India been exposed over the world during 850 Years of Muslim rule, otherwise Indians use to burn alive widow’s & discriminate his own people on the basis of cast & raise system.
Rick:-
How come Ghandhi never think about his nation before being victom of hate & double standard in South Africa.
well i stil wonder how those 10 terrorist with lots and lots of weapon travelled through pakistan to india in a boat and started invasion o_O…then they traveled to train station with these lots of weapons openly…i m wondering why police didnt reacted when some fisherman complained about some stranger on harbour.. then these men traveled whole city by themselves and invaded and invaded..and after some time..they got into most VIP hotels with again lots of weapon and no one saw them entering!!i wonder why they called themself Deccan Mujahidin..an hyderabadi indian group!! i m still wondering why were some text messages from terrorist are reported to be exchanged to indian Lahore!! i saw these on an indian television!! so i m sure i m confirmed or they are spreading false rumours !! it could be stopped in start…but nothing was done until first 40 hour…isnt that too much time!
Rick, Steve, Jack Hughes, Bryan and all who have a myopic one world view,
“Terrorism” in all its most recent manifestations has successfully inculcated itself like a virus within all our daily lives infecting our collective consciousness and our behaviour. If we don’t step out of and beyond these ever so restrictive boundaries that we have knowingly placed upon ourselves, then we will stagger lost and blind to each succeeding awful incident onward into oblivion. We’ll drag all of ourselves down into an unforgiving abyss and the deepest well of discontent and despair. If we do this then no one wins and everybody loses, and humanity takes an even greater regressive step back to the “Dark Ages.”
It’s not about who wins or loses at the end of the day. It’s about co-existence and cooperation at a greater level than we’ve ever conceived of before or witnessed in our lifetime. It’s going to take time, patience and a magnanimous sense of will to overcome all obstacles, and of utmost importance a willing and sometimes painful sacrifice on behalf of all in order to achieve anywhere near a recognised respect and understanding between West and East and any other areas that may rise up to challenge global peace and stability. It’s one of our greatest challenges, but we must embrace the opportunity to endeavour in moving towards a new direction and solution. Cliché it maybe. But – “If you’re not part of the solution then you’re part of the problem!” Simple but true.
India and Pakistan must realize that these horrific attacks were designed to drive a wedge between them, to distract Pakistan from the problems on its western border and divert its troops to the east.
Pakistan should invite India to assist in its battle against terrorism by letting India’s military join them in the Pakistan-Afghanistan borderlands.
India is not a country but continent,it has faced several ups and downs in the past but its culture is still alive and floureshing.These attacks is not going to change its predetermined path,in due course world will have to come behind us.
I would like to see pakistan being tamed and civilized . Today srilankan cricket team has been attacked in lahore . Six players have been injured. How long terrorists hiding in the safe h,eaven will cause havoc and make the nation of pakistan inhab, itable for any civilized person . Before things go out of control , pakistan government has to seriously crack down on the terrorists hide-outs , or else fall prey to the terrorist monster. People all over the globe are worried about pakistan situation , only because the probable use of nuclear bomb and continuous export of the terrorism . Other wise i would wish that may Pakistan be vaished from the map of the world , overnight . Seriously Pakistan has become the migrane for the entire world . India should have taken the chance of defeat of pakistan in 1971 to tame pakistan in a nice manner and civilize this nation born out of hatred.