Talking Points for Oct. 23

Hello, it’s Helen here.

At what age should children start getting sex education? In African countries, children aren’t getting the knowledge necessary to protect themselves against HIV/Aids, according to a report by the charity Save The Children. And in the UK, the government has just announced that sex education will become compulsory at state school for children aged five to sixteen. At the same time, the Scout Association will start handing out condoms and teaching about sex as part of its scouting programme. So how young is too young? This author thinks Americans are too divided on sex education for the idea to take hold with the Boy Scouts in the US. And an act is currently going through Congress to promote more comprehensive sex education, something which Sarah Palin is against, despite the pregnancy of her teenage daughter.

Other stories

Do clothes make the woman? Since Sarah Palin’s vice-presidential nomination, $150,000 has been spent on her clothing, hair and make-up. Should the decision, who to entrust with the running of the country, depend on appearances? In the final run-up, surely it makes sense for candidates to look their very best.

Is inequality a greater problem than poverty? In the United States, inequality could lead to widespread social unrest and increased mortality, according to a UN report. And Archbishop Desmond Tutu has said that poverty in South Africa is creating a state of emergency, while huge amounts of money are being poured into preparations for the Football World Cup in 2010.

In Zimbabwe there’s increased frustration over the deadlocked power-share agreement. Morgan Tvangirai is being applauded for remaining steadfast in face of Robert Mugabe’s attempts to control all of the key ministries, but at the same time the country has reached a standstill while everyone is anxiously awaiting the outcome of the powersharing negotiations.

136 Responses to “Talking Points for Oct. 23”

  1. 1 Jessica in NYC
    October 22, 2008 at 19:23

    @ Everyone

    Please be patient, several moderators are keeping an eye on the blog and may be slow to approve comments. Thank you.

    AFP: Riding high in polls, Obama swats away McCain assaults Yay! Anyone want to dance with me?

    NYT: Bush Invites World Leaders to Economic Talks Will this make a difference in the economy around the world? What can be done to minimize the recession?

  2. 2 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 19:25

    Recently there was a posting asking why we do not talk about violence against Muslims. This is laughable on its face.
    In today’s news from Mosul, Iraq Christians are running for their lives as Muslims are rampaging after them. The Catholic Bishop of Mosul was slaughtered last year in a slaying that was so brutal the Pope called it inhuman.
    Christians in Gaza are fleeing and Saudi Arabia will allow no other religion openly in the country while demanding rights for Muslims in Western Countries. The only Jews in Afghanistan are in he US Military as it looks like the only Jews left in Iraq may very well be in the US Military as well.
    Speaking up against Muslims gets one murdered or shouted down by Muslim “brown shirts”.
    Even the most liberal bleeding hearts are starting to see the infection within Islam in the Middle East. That infection does not seem to exist outside of the Middle East.
    Indonesia, Malaysia and other Islamic countries outside of the Middle East seem immune. Why is that? What are those progressive Islamic countries doing right? Have they recognized that we are in the 21St Century?

  3. 3 Julie P
    October 22, 2008 at 19:26

    Miss LA Teen USA crown is revoked after she left a restaurant without paying, and leaving her purse behind that contained marijuana.


    Ahh, the innocence of youth!

  4. 4 Vijay
    October 22, 2008 at 19:38

    @Jessica In NYC
    Don’t start gloating as yet,unless Obama has double digit opinion poll leads ,he will lose,why,because he is Black.

  5. 6 Vijay
    October 22, 2008 at 19:41

    I wonder how much a reseacher,producer,editor ,junior presenter and senior presenter earn at the BBC World Service say for instance on a programme like WHYS.

  6. 7 Jessica in NYC
    October 22, 2008 at 19:42

    @ Dan

    “Iraq Christians are running for their lives as Muslims are rampaging after them.”

    That is horrible. Ignorance is not limited to any singular religion. However, be reasonable, I have given examples of Muslims (who are non-Arab) who were at the end of hate crimes in the US. I find myself very uncomfortably agreeing with Steve, it seems that all killings over religion are unjustifiable and ridiculous.

  7. 8 steve
    October 22, 2008 at 19:52

    @ Julie P

    LOL thanks for that link. I bet she’ll get rewarded with a playboy or hustler spread.

  8. 9 Roberto
    October 22, 2008 at 19:56

    RE religious genocide in Iraq:

    ——- Not only the Christian faiths being run out of Iraq and the rest of the middle east on the heels of previous Jewish generations, but the Mandaeans in Iraq as well.

    Approx 60,000 in the world, they developed parallel with the Jews and Christians and share some beliefs. Most all used to be in Iraq, but most all have had to flee for their lives. They are the few remaining Aramaic speakers left in the world, the language of Christ.

    The outrages of humanity never cease.

  9. 10 Vijay
    October 22, 2008 at 19:58

    @Julie P
    That is so American teenager ,Miss Teen USA should have grounded here for a month or something.
    The other stories you didn’t comment on were ,what happened to the Brady Bunch stars and San Francisco decriminalising the sex trade.

  10. 11 Julie P
    October 22, 2008 at 19:58


    If memory serves me right she is 18 or close enough. I wonder how much she’ll get paid?

  11. 12 Jessica in NYC
    October 22, 2008 at 19:59

    @ Vijay

    Don’t rain on my parade. 😦 I’m thinking positive. President Obama!
    Do you ever watch any of the comedians, like Chris Rock? Chris Rock: “Bush Has Made It Hard for a White Guy to Be Elected President
    @Julie P

    Ah, I feel so bad for her. NOT!

  12. 14 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 20:16

    @Jessica in NYC October 22, 2008 at 7:42 pm
    I agree with you but what I am looking at is the irrationality of Islam in the Middle East that does not exist elsewhere in Islamic countries in other areas.
    Maybe Middle Eastern Muslims are upset that they are being dragged into modern times and are afraid that populations kept in ignorance and poverty will see that the outside world is not that bad.
    Lee Kwan Yu in one generation brought Singapore into modernity but it was not easy. Now they enjoy a much better lifestyle and have a future for their children.
    Why would Arab Muslims deny their children a future?

  13. 15 Vijay
    October 22, 2008 at 20:16

    @Jessica in NYC
    Even if Obama gets elected he’ll be dodging bullets ,let me paint you a picture, the US economy is in the tank,a recently unemployed neo nazi bobby joe billy ,picks up his rifle and decides he is goin’ huntin’, uppity negra of course he has a laser guided sight and puts the little red dot on Obama high fore head and drops him with one shot.

  14. 16 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 20:22

    @Roberto October 22, 2008 at 7:56 pm
    I did not know that but likewise it is more than a crime. Imagine, the language of Christ banned from the Birthplace of Christ by Muslims. By eliminating other religions and beliefs Islam become incestuous and that road leads to a genetic dead end.
    Israel has a thriving Jewish civilization as there are Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and other religions worshiping there. Each contributes to them other.
    Arab countries cannot make that claim.

  15. 17 Julie P
    October 22, 2008 at 20:27

    @Lies parents tell their children,

    My parents never told me this one

    “A quarter of parents have told their little ones that their private parts will drop off if they play with them too much.”

    But having gone to a Catholic grade school I heard similar versions from a nun.

  16. 18 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 20:27

    @Vijay October 22, 2008 at 8:16 pm
    Good God ……I hope not.

  17. 19 Tom D Ford
    October 22, 2008 at 20:30

    @ Jessica in NYC October 22, 2008 at 7:23 pm

    From: “AFP: Riding high in polls, Obama swats away McCain assaults Yay! Anyone want to dance with me?”

    “”McCain’s running mate Sarah Palin meanwhile courted more controversy, after the Politico newspaper and website reported that Republicans spent 150,000 dollars to outfit her for the campaign trail.

    The McCain-Palin campaign rejected the report as a distraction from the top issues in the election, but the episode appeared to undercut Palin’s claim to represent hard pressed working class Americans.

    “With all of the important issues facing the country right now, it’s remarkable that we’re spending time talking about pantsuits and blouses,” said spokeswoman Tracey Schmitt. “”

    Just a regular hockey mom … .

    Well, it turns out I was correct about who was dressing her. Henh.

  18. 20 Vijay
    October 22, 2008 at 20:31

    @Jessica in NYC

    Ralph Nader?

    Young people and blacks have historically disproportionate lower voter turnout .

    Hispanics are going to vote for McCain.

    All McCain has to do is mobilse the Republicans and he wins.
    George W. Bush did it twice.

  19. 21 Vijay
    October 22, 2008 at 20:36

    JFK,MalcomX , Martin Luther King ,George Wallace,John Lennon and Ronald Reagan.

  20. October 22, 2008 at 20:40

    Hi my Precious Dan in the US… I have taken a look at your response to my comments on the last night’s TP page… You have described me as a ‘decent Muslim’, and with all due respect it’s not up to you to decide whether I am ‘decent Muslim’ or not… Only my Creator can decide that, depending upon my day to-day intentions and actions towards myself, my family members, my close relatives and good friends, my future patients, and most importantly towards my IRAQ… Everyday I try my best to honour my Creator and my most beloved Mohammed in everything I say or most importantly do, and it’s mainly because of my faith (Islam) and my deep obligation towards my Creator and my most beloved Mohammed that I also have chosen to honour my Iraqiness in everything I say or do on daily bases…. My loyalty to my Iraq originates from deep religious and moral roots, in addition of course to this “Iraqi national pride” thing that’s circulating in my blood and infiltrating all of my internal organs !!! It’s because of all of that that I’ve made my choice to stay in there, fight from the inside till the last breath, go through HELL day by day and endure stuff that a guy like you cannot even imagine, but still, I am proudly keeping the faith in EVERYTHING that I do strongly believe in… Anyway, have to go now… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…

  21. 23 Tom D Ford
    October 22, 2008 at 20:40

    @ Dan October 22, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    “Recently there was a posting asking why we do not talk about violence against Muslims. This is laughable on its face.
    In today’s news from Mosul, Iraq Christians are running for their lives as Muslims are rampaging after them. The Catholic Bishop of Mosul was slaughtered last year in a slaying that was so brutal the Pope called it inhuman.”

    Yeah, Bush made that all possible, didn’t he, he broke Iraq. Those Iraqi Christians were better off under Saddam Hussein, how ironic is that?

  22. 24 steve
    October 22, 2008 at 20:47

    @ Tom

    Not a good argument to make. That suggests that in a muslim majority nation, it requires a dicatator to keep people from killing each other. the only thing the Bush decision to invade Iraq did was take away the authoritarian control, allowing what was repressed to come out. If you noticed, Yugoslavia was peaceful under Tito, but that was because it was controlled by a stongman, and not too long after he left the picture, Yugoslavia fell apart, with all sorts of conflicts between different peoples who were held together.

  23. 25 Tom D Ford
    October 22, 2008 at 20:52

    @ Robert October 22, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    “So what was the worst lie that you were told growing up?”

    That “God” existed. That is the First Great Lie for most people on earth.

    And that is the basic training for making them susceptible to political propaganda later in life. That is an assertion by an authority figure that something is true, without any evidence at all, and it trains children to accept lies from authority figures without question.

    Religion is child abuse!

  24. 26 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 20:57

    @Lubna October 22, 2008 at 8:40 pm
    How would you rather I describe you? As a miserable disgusting woman? Naahhh…I cannot do that as I do not even know you.
    I disagree with you and I take large issue with your positions but until I know better I have to believe that you are a decent person and if you cannot take that compliment there is something very wrong that you need to address.
    Additionally I honor that you love your country. I love my country as well. I want nothing less than you to have a functional Government with a secure functioning country. There are impediments to that goal that I rail against. I rail against how those forces are inflicting themselves upon innocents in the West and Israel. Had the Arab Islamic states bonded with Israel you would be as close to the “garden” as was Adam & Eve. Arabs chose another and self-destructive path.
    I hope that clarifies.

  25. 27 Tom D Ford
    October 22, 2008 at 20:57

    @ Dan October 22, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    “Why would Arab Muslims deny their children a future?”

    Because Global Oil Corporations pick, install, and support right-wing strongman leaders to rule those countries.

  26. 28 Anthony
    October 22, 2008 at 20:58

    @ Robert

    Weither “God” exists or not, I’m glad I was told about him, and I’m a better person for it, and much much happier for it :).

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  27. 29 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 21:00

    Tom…how can you be so very sure that you would condemn others along with yourself? Who made you Grand PooBah to tell people if God exists or not?
    That is an individual decision and choice.
    You can have your prejudiced political views but leave people to their God.

  28. 30 Luz Ma from Mexico
    October 22, 2008 at 21:05

    @Julie P
    I also attended a Catholic school and a nun told us the same lie. I knew it was not true, since my mom told us beforehand that kind of statements were untrue, but many friends believed it.

    The worst lie that I was told as a little child came from my grandmother. She told me that if something fell in the floor the Devil kissed it, so I was forbiden to eat or put in my mouth anything that was in the floor. She could told me that stuff that fell in the floor get dirty and therefore, it was bad for my health to eat it or put in my mouth, but anyways… I suppose the Devil was a better deterrent, LOL

  29. 31 steve
    October 22, 2008 at 21:05

    @ Dan

    That’s like saying who are you tell people if Harry Potter exists or not. Is that an individual decision and choice? There’s no more proof that God exists than there is proof that Harry Potter exists.

    There’s probably even more evidence of the toothfairy. I in fact went to sleep as a child, with a tooth under my pillow, and when I woke up, there was money. I’m sure in all likelihood it was my mother or father, but my tooth changed into money. Yet I don’t think anyone has seen any proof of there being a God. If God has a problem with this conclusion, he’s free to join in on the discussion, but I have a feeling like Harry Potter, since he’s not real, he cannot.

  30. 32 Jens
    October 22, 2008 at 21:11


    but can you prove that he exists……..because if god does not exist then it is a lie…

  31. 33 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 21:13

    You may think that God does not exist but you are not the final word nor do you offer solid proof
    That God exists is a measure of faith. The Tooth fairy comparison is ridiculous as is your asking God to descend to your level to join in an argument with you.
    Isn’t enough to know that most people on Earth have had an experience enough to know for themselves that God exists?

  32. 34 Robert
    October 22, 2008 at 21:13


    Being overly pedantic here, nobody can ‘decide’ if God exists or not. How important does somebody think they are if they think that by deciding if somebody exists they exist.

    You can decide if you believe in him or not. But along with that choice and the right of Christians and others to spread the word of God’s love, atheists are allowed to point out inconsistencies and issues they see with a theory in a god.

  33. 35 Anthony
    October 22, 2008 at 21:16

    No, but then again your can’t PROVE the evolutionary theory. A lot of it is assumption, but I’ll get assasinated if I question the theory (BTW, thats why they call it a theory, and not a fact).

    Saying that there is absolutly no God is just as silly as saying there is absolutly a God. Bill Mayhr touchs on this in his interviews and in his movie “Religulous”

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  34. 36 Robert
    October 22, 2008 at 21:17

    The tooth fairy.

    Less of lie, and more of a fable about capitalism for young kids. During the decade that me and my siblings lost our baby teeth we saw the income go from 20p to £1. What an easy way to demonstrate the principle of inflation.

  35. 37 steve
    October 22, 2008 at 21:18

    @ Dan

    How? How have most people on Earth had an experience enough to know that God exists for themselves?

    I’ve had an experience to the contrary. Ever been in cardiac arrest? There’s no God. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there was no bright lights, no hand reaching down from the clouds like in Torah Tunes..

    My dad used to be in a carpool with this guy who was a member of a religious sect, and before they all moved to Montana to avoid the upcoming nuclear holocaust (in the 1980s), he said that he joined because he had a vision that he stumbled and an angel helped him to his feet. He later said that the “vision” probably had more to do with the LSD he had taken…

    If God demands that I worship him, he can at least prove his existance. But since he doesn’t exist, that would be difficult for him to do. Actually impossible.

  36. 38 Jens
    October 22, 2008 at 21:18


    nobody can know if god exists. there simply no proof for his existance. as science advances the existance of god becomes more and more unlikely.

    just think about it if there is only one god then why do we have all these different religions.

    god only exists in minds who need his crutch to get through daily life.

  37. 39 steve
    October 22, 2008 at 21:20

    @ Jens

    And apparently God can’t make up his mind. The Torah apparently wasn’t enough, so Jesus had to come by, then mohammed. For being all mighty and all knowing, he sure changes his mind a lot. But then again, flakiness is a human quality we gave God when we created him.

  38. 40 Jens
    October 22, 2008 at 21:22

    there is a damm side more prove for evolution that there is for god, let me tell you that one.

    you are the product of evolution and the therory is actually very well proven. only clowns like supporters of intelligent design do not want to accept it.

    tell me which part of evolution is not proven.

  39. 41 Jens
    October 22, 2008 at 21:26


    that is exactly the point. the entire bible is just full of horse manour. just think about the chosen people and egypt. i mean how can god choose one set of people and not the others, since he apparently made man. also inbetween he had to press the reset button

  40. 42 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 21:27

    I cannot speak to your personal experience other than to say “Glad you made it” but I will tell you that I too came to the that ultimate moment and my experience was totally different from yours.
    Does that mean because you had no experience I have to accept God does not exist? I maintain it is up to each individuals and it is such a personal choice that we have to accept each person’s decision.

  41. 43 steve
    October 22, 2008 at 21:28

    @ Jens that’s funny when people deny evolution, but see evidence of it every day. Why are there so many similar species on other continents? Why do humans have vestigal organs and that tail bone sort of thing?

    The only reason why evolution isn’t “proven” is that you cannot observe it happening, it takes its course slowly.

    But I mean, when you have proof, sitting right in your skin, I mean, UV light causes skin cells to evolve, and could possibly lead to cancer as well, it’s hard to deny it.

    We can breed animals to give them certain characteristics. We know wew can do that, but can you pray to create those characteristics?

  42. 44 Anthony
    October 22, 2008 at 21:31

    Ummmm, the feather (which has a real bad explaination) and other parts of animals, many animals (Angler Fish, Wood Pecker, Bombardment Bettle, which all have horrible explainations) and when you ask for proof of “missing links” then you always get B.S. answers, that along with…ummmm…when did life begin??? Now, just now, they have a new theory that it was a volcano erruption. All that being proof is just as naive as people making up gods to explain the sun, it’s just people today are more intellegent, so they come up with more intellegent answers.

    And before Mr. steve says anything, no I’m not going to provide links for anything. It’s stuff I have researched before, so if you wanna prove me wrong, go ahead, I would actually really love that.

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  43. 45 steve
    October 22, 2008 at 21:31

    @ Dan

    Christians think you and I will go to hell because we don’t accept jesus. Just say if they are right. Would you want to worship a god that has said many contrary things? Say if I saw no afterlife because I was raised a Jew? Is that a God you’d really want to worship, one that confuses people, and then sends all the wrong ones to hell? Does that sound like someone you would want to worship, or perhaps is it the result of people wanting to claim “i’m right, you’re wrong”!

  44. 46 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 21:33

    You cannot see skin cells evolve. UV Light causes melanin to be produced. Not everyone who is exposed gets cancer.
    I believe in evolution BUT……when the first human arrived whom did he have sex with to produce more humans. Additionally given the very few numbers of humans there must have been Incest but certainly inbreeding. Why are we not all mongoloid idiots?

  45. 47 Anthony
    October 22, 2008 at 21:33

    @ steve and Jens

    Once again, No one is talking about Jesus, the Bible, the Torah, Mohammed, the Koran, or anything like that. God, thats what we are talking about. I will be the first one to say the Bible is a bunch of B.S., but stop confusing the existance of a “God” and the Bible/Koran/etc.

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  46. 48 Robert
    October 22, 2008 at 21:37


    By your definitions, gravity is only a theory, not a fact, because it can never be truly proved, but would you ever bet against it?

    The difference between a scientific theory and a theory in god is that in science the theory is writern, a prediction made and then tested. If it passes the theory goes onto another test. The more successful tests that occur the more solid the prove. If the theory fails it is updated with the new observations or discarded completely. The theory of god however works by assuming the theory is correct, and then interpreting events to find what mood god happened to be in at the time.

    Scientists debate opposing theories integrate them. Religions seem to be out to show how the opposing theory must be wrong and destroyed.

  47. 49 steve
    October 22, 2008 at 21:37

    @ Dan

    we are not all mongoloid idiots because only the strongest would survive. I’m sure what you described happened, but they also didn’t survive, and only the strongest reproduced and had offspring that would reproduce. That’s how the world worked until modern times. Now we have the privilege of being killed by idiots driving the wrong way down a highway at 100 mph becuase they wanted to make the evening news.

  48. 50 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 21:41

    If I want to go to hell I will go eat my Mother’s cooking.
    Faith…Belief… is a personal thing. If people ask Ii tell them but otherwise it is personal to and for me.
    If Christians want to believe I will go to hell so be it…..I’ll meet all my friends there.

  49. 51 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 21:48

    Steve There were not enough humans initially for only the strong to survive. In any event there had to be inbreeding and the race should have died out given the very few initial numbers.
    Something else was at work.

  50. October 22, 2008 at 21:49

    Ah, here we go again guys… Those horrific crimes against our Iraqi Christians brothers were strongly condemned by all sects of the Iraqi civil society and also by the Iraqi religious authorities whether Islamic Sunni or Islamic Shia… Two days ago the Supreme Islamic Shia cleric in Iraq Sayed Ali Al Sistani received representatives of the Christian leadership in Iraq, and during that meeting His Holiness made it clear that those horrific crimes can never be tolerated and are strongly condemned… Also the Sadri movement has taken a similar step inorder to show support and solidarity with our Iraqi Christian brothers… My best girlfriend at college Maryam is practicing Christian, and her aunt lives in Musil, unfortunately her aunt and her family were forced to leave their house by “THEM”… We’re all trying to make Maryam feel that she’s not alone in this, and that we’re all there for her and standing by her side… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…

  51. 53 Anthony
    October 22, 2008 at 21:49

    @ Robert

    Hmmmm, ever heard of Newtons Law? Wow, for a “person of science” you really don’t look into the basics.

    So, you can’t test God, well you really can’t test the evolutionary theory unless we can record millions of years of info. It works both ways bub. You’re being as closed minded as those Christians that you laugh at, haha ;).

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  52. 54 Robert
    October 22, 2008 at 22:02


    Interesting that you bring up Newtonian physics as it demonstrates how science knowledge, theories and laws . All of Newtons laws (his three of motion and the one of gravity) have fundamental flaws in them. They assume a universal coordinate system and an an ability to measure variables precisely neither of which are correct.

    But when encountered with these issues science updates the laws and the theories accordingly, That why we have the theory of relativity for dealing with motion and gravity of the really big and really fast and quantum mechanics for the motion of the really small. Newton’s ‘laws’ are only applicable under certain circumstances.

  53. 55 Jens
    October 22, 2008 at 22:05


    just because you have not found the missing link, it does not mean it does not exist. what about all the instances where you have all the links?

    that argument is very weak. the reason why we are still researching is because we are searching for answers, cures etc.

  54. 56 Anthony
    October 22, 2008 at 22:09

    @ Robert

    Hold on, let me look at my prior stuff….hmmmm….yup, thanks for just bringing up something random. What does that have to do with stating that you can’t test God or the Evolutionary theory.
    Hey, Did you know that the “lighter” was invented before the “strikable matches”. There, I can bring up randomness too 🙂

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  55. 57 Robert
    October 22, 2008 at 22:09

    you really can’t test the evolutionary theory unless we can record millions of years of info

    So what are those fossils if not a record of millions of years of life?

  56. October 22, 2008 at 22:11

    Oh Dan, you keep insulting my faith in an extremely generalised and sometimes clearly rude attitude all the time on this blog but still you’re describing me as a ‘decent Muslim’ !!! Wow, I should then feel very proud of myself, shouldn’t I ?! :-)… I do have some very serious problems with Israelis as invadors and occupiers, but I never consider the whole Jewish people to be evil, indecent or bad just because the occupiers in the Palestinian case happen to be Jews, do I ?! Anyway, not all human beings can afford to be like me eh ?! :-):-)… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…

  57. 59 Anthony
    October 22, 2008 at 22:13

    @ Robert

    I didn’t know that dead dinosaurs meant evolution exists, Hahaha, lol, Evolution should be a religion, because you think the same way as Christians, “intellegent design means God exists”, lol.

    @ Jens

    No, there is BARLEY proof (as in fossils) of missing links. You look at EVERY living thing in the world, and they have closer to nothing than “all”. Scientists do draw pretty pictures based on assumptions.

    Lol, I think a lot of this thinking is more Dogmatic than Catholosim, Hahaha, lol 🙂

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  58. 60 gary
    October 22, 2008 at 22:14

    Before I forget it in the midst of all this interesting conversation:

    Regarding to your upcoming TV debut; “Break a leg!”

  59. 61 DENNIS@OCC
    October 22, 2008 at 22:21


    Re: Ros and the TV
    i hope you are gogin to enjoy yourself….

    i understand it takes time….

    Re: Bush Invites World Leaders to Economic Talks
    i hope something is talk about, at this economics

    Re: About the post Julie P, October 22, 2008 at 7:26 pm
    it is so nice to a youth!


  60. 62 DENNIS@OCC
    October 22, 2008 at 22:22

    Re: LYING
    i have so many lies!

    [and none i will be disclosing on the BBC]


  61. 63 DENNIS@OCC
    October 22, 2008 at 22:27

    Re: Lubna,
    i know that you are a good Muslim in your country…and in the future, you will be a great doctor…until then, you are a great person….

    Re: AFP: Riding high in polls, Obama swats away McCain assaults Yay! Anyone want to dance with me?

    I know, it is nice that Obama is getting high in the polls…And the dance, Yes–I would…


  62. 64 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 22:44

    My, My how one parses words.
    Perhaps English is unfamiliar to you or perhaps you enjoy baiting people. Either way it is transparent.
    Not one Arab gave a damn about the Palestinians. That is FACT. For 60 years they have been imprisoned in “refugee camps” inprisoned by Muslim masters.
    Another fact is that the Palestinians were under Jordanian rule prior to them waging war and losing. That too is FACT. But after they lost they want their land back? Why? Would they do the same to the Jews?
    How many Palestinian refugees did Iraq take in? How about Saudi Arabia or any other Islamic country?
    Palestine never existed and the Palestinians never built anything on the land.
    I cannot understand how you can say that the Jews invaded as Islam is born of Judaism and Christianity and in each faith it is recognized as FACT that God gave the land to Israel. To deny Israel is to deny Islam!!
    In any event if the Palestinians threw off the yoke of their Muslim taskmasters and joined in serious talks with Israel all people of the area would prosper.
    Lastly, if you have difficulty with my calling you a decent person then either you do not understand the definition of the word, do not think that you are a decent person or have difficulties that we are not qualified to solve here on WHYS, I think you understand the word well. My question is that if you take offense at being called decent what is it when one is called dear & love? Are those disingenuous words?

  63. 65 Luz Ma from Mexico
    October 22, 2008 at 22:47


    but stop confusing the existance of a “God” and the Bible/Koran/etc.

    Well said! 😉

    I believe in God, but I don’t force/encourage/tell other people to believe in him, not even my kids. I think is matter of personal choice.

  64. 66 Vera in SF
    October 22, 2008 at 22:47

    What is a “Real American”?
    Is a non-denominational person not a Real American?
    If one says he or she is a “real American”, do we automatically assume that he or she is White, and is NOT a Muslim, Buddhist or atheist?
    Does Real America only consist of communities with conservative, traditional Christian values?
    Is it acceptable that an American president may not be a REAL American?
    Is it acceptable that an American president may have a Muslim middle name?

    McCain and Palin have been saying that small towns in the states with conservative Christian values are “the real America.”
    Many people from such “Real America” towns believe that Obama is a Muslim; some even believe that it is “unconstitutional and unbiblical” to support a non-Christian candidate.

    Last Sunday, when interviewed by Tom Brokaw during Meet The Press, Colin Powell said that he was troubled by some comments: “Well, you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim.” And he replied: “Well, the correct answer is, he is not a Muslim. He’s a Christian. He’s always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer’s no. Is there anything wrong with some 7-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president?”

    Colin Powell also mentioned that he decided to speak out when he saw in the New Yorker magazine a picture of a mother pressing her head against the gravestone of her son, a 20-year-old soldier who had been killed in Iraq. On the headstone were engraved his name, Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan. He said: “Who could debate that this kid lying in Arlington with Christian and Jewish and non-denominational buddies was not a fine American?”

    From history, we learn that many great civilizations were diminished by religious intolerance. Muslims, like other people from different religions – Catholics, Christians, Buddhist, Hindu etc. – are here in America, and they are Americans by every political, social and economic definition. There is no denying the reality that the best among all Americans exists in every denomination.

  65. 67 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 23:00

    Lubna…I hope you will carefully read the comment from Vera in SF.
    Read the part in which she says
    “Colin Powell also mentioned that he decided to speak out when he saw in the New Yorker magazine a picture of a mother pressing her head against the gravestone of her son, a 20-year-old soldier who had been killed in Iraq. On the headstone were engraved his name, Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan. He said: “Who could debate that this kid lying in Arlington with Christian and Jewish and non-denominational buddies was not a fine American?”
    From history, we learn that many great civilizations were diminished by religious intolerance. Muslims, like other people from different religions – Catholics, Christians, Buddhist, Hindu etc. – are here in America, and they are Americans by every political, social and economic definition. There is no denying the reality that the best among all Americans exists in every denomination.”

    This is what makes America great and not the intolerance, prejudice and exclusion we see in Arab countries. That is what I have been talking about but Vera said it best.

  66. 68 Roberto
    October 22, 2008 at 23:20

    RE “” only the strongest would survive. “”

    ——- A myth. Darwin never promoted such an idea. T

    Those most adept at living within their environment are most likely to survive and propagate. T-Rex and Brontosauras were infinitely stronger than us, yet didn’t survive environmental changes.

    A lesson lost to modern civilization as we feather the nest of our own doom.

  67. 69 Anthony
    October 22, 2008 at 23:24

    @ Roberto

    Yes, but intellegence can make you stronger. If you try flip over a rock, you could be super buff and not be able to flip it, yet if you were “weaker” but smart and used leverage, you could be able to do it. You can’t always look at bulk as strenght. I got in a fight with this guy WAY bigger and buffer than me, yet I knew where to grab and lock and I took him down, so who was really stronger???

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  68. 70 Jens
    October 22, 2008 at 23:26

    @ DAN,

    “I believe in evolution BUT……when the first human arrived whom did he have sex with to produce more humans.”

    Humans did not arrive, they evolved into humans and during that time they had sex with the very same evolving humans. THAT IS WHY IT IS CALLED EVOLOUTION. nothing on this planet just arrived, everything evolved over time and some creatures did not make it. that does not mean thy did not evolve.

  69. 71 Jens
    October 22, 2008 at 23:32


    it all depends how you define “the strongest’ or “the fittest”. what if the one with the loudest colored feathers survives, the prettiest song etc etc, because he attracts more mates that way.

  70. 72 selena in Canada
    October 22, 2008 at 23:32


    My question is that if you take offense at being called decent what is it when one is called dear & love?

    Lubna can speak for herself, as she has so amply demonstrated. But I would like to say a word to support her, if you don’t mind.

    Lubna has already explained the significance of the words dear and love. Maybe someone with more experienced can find the post for you. A number of us had wondered about her use of the words.

    From what I understood from her post, I got the impression that Lubna does not want to the only one being called decent. She seemed to be saying that she would rather be categorized with her people than be singled out as the one who is decent.

    It can’t be very easy for Lubna being on this blog when so many people write so much derogatory material about Muslims and the people of Iraq, without having been there and quite possibly not having any understanding of the country and its people.

  71. 73 selena in Canada
    October 22, 2008 at 23:34

    If all Americans are fine Americans, why is there so much opposition to Obama’s being labeled a Muslim?

  72. 74 Anthony
    October 22, 2008 at 23:35

    @ Jens and Dan

    Here’s a good one, and I haven’t really looked into it, so I’ll have to, but at what point in the Evolutionary Theory does a creature NEED the opposite sex in order to reproduce??? If we were all self producing cells, at what point did life create a sexual organ, that needed another life with a sexual organ that “fit” together. You think the odds of THAT happening would be INSANE. Like 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to the millionth power to one or something, and I’m not trying to be funny, I’m trying to be seriouse. Did a female and male part suddenly appear???

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  73. 75 Jens
    October 22, 2008 at 23:38


    the problem with self-replication is high genetic instability, since you do not mix genes. the probabilities for many things in evolution is incredably small, BUT the one thing in favour of evolution is time……….

  74. 76 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 23:44

    @Selena in Canada
    Anyone who thinks Obama is a Muslim is a fool….but what if he was? He is an American.
    I have no idea about Lubna’s previous posts but to call someone decent is a compliment. I have serious differences with her but I do not know her so how can I call her anything else? The reference to her being decent takes noting away from any or all other Iraqi’s.
    Does that make my point of view clearer?

  75. 77 Venessa
    October 22, 2008 at 23:46

    Selena ~

    “If all Americans are fine Americans, why is there so much opposition to Obama’s being labeled a Muslim?”

    From day 1 that I heard it I still don’t get why anyone would care. Personally I never thought twice about it. What would people be saying if he was Atheist?

  76. 78 Jens
    October 22, 2008 at 23:49

    @ venessa,

    you have the slimmest chance of being elected president if you are an atheist. I am sure even a muslim would do better, since he/she is at least not godless, unlike freaks like me.

  77. 79 Anthony
    October 22, 2008 at 23:51

    @ Jens

    I understand that, but that doesn’t amnswer my question as to at what point do we need a male and female counter part in order to reproduce. I understand why it is better, but how did this come about? thats my question.

    So all of a sudden 2 cells next to eachother happened to be different than the others and happened to spawn one group being one gender, and the other being another gender, that just happened to need eachother to now reproduce instead of the origional way??? I think the Tooth Fairy is more realistic than that, haha, lol :). I think there are things in the theory, in which scientists are grasping at straws, yet they “know” that they are true. I dunno, what do you think???

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  78. 80 Julie P
    October 22, 2008 at 23:54


    Here is the reality. We are at war (some of us are against it as you already know). The people are we at with claim to be Muslim. That is the problem.

    During WWII when we were at war with the Japanese we had internment camps for the Japanese fearing they would aid the enemy. Also, German Americans were not liked either. My father, son of Polish immigrants, did not marry a nice Polish girl like his parents wanted him to. He married the granddaughter of German immigrants in the late 1950’s. My father’s parents did not speak to my mother until she became pregnant with their first child because she was one of “those Germans”.

    It’s an us vs. them thing. Like it or not.

  79. 81 Dan
    October 23, 2008 at 00:11

    It is only small minded bigoted people that would care if a candidate was a Muslim.
    You know that I rail about the bad acts of Muslims around the world but in America we assimilate people so well that being an American is what we look at and not their religion…..I hope.

  80. 82 selena in Canada
    October 23, 2008 at 00:28


    Does that make my point of view clearer?

    Your posts seem confrontational. Perhaps you do not mean them to be so. 🙂

  81. 83 selena in Canada
    October 23, 2008 at 00:30

    @Julie P

    It’s an us vs. them thing. Like it or not.

    Not that is an honest statement, not sugar coated to please people who are taking the high moral ground.

    Thank you.

  82. 84 Dan
    October 23, 2008 at 00:39

    @selena in Canada October 23, 2008 at 12:28 am
    Of course I am confrontational I cannot help myself as I am a native New Yorker.
    I like to challenge peoples ideas and of course they can challenge mine as well. After all fair is fair. Surprisingly enough some WHYS people have been persuasive enough to either help me formulate an opinion or modify my opinions.

  83. 85 Julie P
    October 23, 2008 at 00:44


    I listened to both of my parents tell their story and what they went through when they dated and got married. My Polish grandparents and other relatives hated Germans for a lot of reasons, all relating to WWII. They took it out my mother who has a lot recent German blood in her. (Her, my family also dates back to colonialism.)

    My parents knew it for what it was, us vs. them, but chose to live their lives as they wanted and to leave WWII behind.

  84. 87 Julie P
    October 23, 2008 at 01:54


    I love the first comment on that blog!

  85. 89 Pangolin-California
    October 23, 2008 at 02:27

    Anthony~ If you bothered to Google instead of yanking talking points off creationist web sites the answer would be obvious. At the single cell critter level some critters are in the habit of engulfing other critters and using them as internal factories.

    At some point instead of swallowing other critters they accidently passed along genetic packages instead of full replicas. A virus is one kind of genetic package that passes from host to host. A spore is another. Pollen is a third.

    Here Parasitic invasion credited with evolution of sex in New Scientist. Perhaps the best general science magazine; smart enough for the scientifically literate, easy on the general public.

  86. October 23, 2008 at 02:31

    Alright, more things I don’t understand. Republican conservative thought streams says, “Taxes are bad, taking money from the wealthy to give to the poor is bad.” However, economic stimulus packages and mortgage relief ideals are designed to do just that. If you are going to give these people money, it has to come from somewhere! The problem has been identified as the middle class on down don’t have any money to buy goods and services with. So the legislators have taken money from the top and given it to people at the bottom in hopes of getting them working and then spending again. It is funny how this mentality resembles somebody eating a burrito from taco bell then trying to find out what that awful smell is a few hours later. How do you not connect the dots?

  87. 91 Julie P
    October 23, 2008 at 02:44

    The Queen’s on hard times. She’s feeling the credit crunch and wearing “recycled” gowns.



  88. 92 Bob in Queensland
    October 23, 2008 at 03:01

    Good Morning!

    It’s a rare enough occurrence to find myself in agreement with Steve that I may as well celebrate the event. I too find it inconceivable that an all-powerful God could create life, the universe and everything then be so petty as to play mind games by keeping his/her existence hidden as a test of faith. As the (almost) all-powerful Judge Judy says: “If it doesn’t make sense, it probabaly isn’t true”. (Hmmm…could that be a corollary to Occam’s Razor? I’ll have to ponder this.)

    As for evolution: Between the old and new testaments, you can find a verse in the bible to prove pretty much any point of view you want, from loving your neighbour and turning the other cheek to “any eye for an eye” and stoning just about anyone you disagree with. I’ve never worked out why creationists are so hell-bent on taking THOSE verses literally in the face of so much evidence to the contrary. Frankly, if I believed in a god, I’d find it much more impressive to set off a plan with a big bang and have it evolve into life billions of years later! Now THAT would be “Intelligent Design”!

  89. 93 Bob in Queensland
    October 23, 2008 at 03:12

    Re: Climate Change

    I know that some regular posters are still arguing about whether man-made climate change is real or not. The same posters tend to frame the argument as “economic wealth vs. saving the climate”.

    For that reason, I was interested this morning to see the Australian government is buying full page magazine ads on the them “Climate change: Can we afford to ignore it?”. The ads go on to point out the economic costs to a hot, arid country like Australia (with a dependence on tourism) if climate change isn’t arrested.

    The tag line for the ad is “Think Climate. Think Change. We can’t afford not to”.

    This isn’t Green Peace or Friends of the Earth….this is government policy. I’ve seen other anti-climate change campaigns in the UK and Europe before but this is the first I’ve seen to argue the economic case for policies on climate change.

    The climate change nay-sayers are getting farther and farther out of step with the main stream.

  90. 94 Bob in Queensland
    October 23, 2008 at 03:22

    @ Vijay

    Re: BBC Salaries

    At least the broad brush strokes of the BBC pay scales are in the public domain HERE.. You have to scroll down a bit to get to the pay section….the first PDF gives the salary bands and then, a bit farther down, is a breakdown of how many people at the World Service are in each band.

  91. 95 DENNIS
    October 23, 2008 at 03:34

    Re: BBC Salaries
    i think i may have to changed my degree [lol] 🙂

    unless, i am offered a job at the BEEB….


  92. October 23, 2008 at 03:56


    Oddly enough, that is one of the few things about religions that makes sense to me. I go into great detail here.

    That basic idea is this. If we are going to live life in complete peace and harmony, we have to prove that we can despite our “free will”. We also know that everything that we know we eventually “out grow”. If there is a god, it would just make sense that he wants to know that every soul he lets into his paradise has the ability to have faith in him and his judgment in the face of the most intense scrutiny and circumstances.

    Let us face it, if god was here everyday, somebody in the media would dig up some dirt on him and make you question his credibility.

  93. October 23, 2008 at 04:01

    This post will be positively ignored so I don’t know why I am writing it but here goes.

    The Bible should not be read as a literal book, least of all the ones that have been translated FROM The Original Text and INTO modern English and [place your language here].

    In TOT it mentions many things that are unexplainable to man’s knowledge [at the time of writing] and that, with time, man will understand. It does NOT mention “hell” it DOES mention the resting place of sleep until the final judgement when ‘all’ can be absolved of ‘sin’. Your [so called] punishment for ‘sin’ is that you have to live with that ‘sin’ as a conscience – which is a greater ‘punishment’ that can be meted out by others.

    The Bible was [KJV] a political translation that was picked up by the vast Church and used to control the population – it has been used that way since!

    People insist on blaming religion – I disagree, it is man’s interpretation of The Book and how they have used that which is wrong.

  94. October 23, 2008 at 04:03

    Bob –

    I believe that Climate Change is both – man-helped and natural. I posted a blog post a while ago about Climate Change on Mars, now, as far as I know, we haven’t colonised Mars just yet.

  95. October 23, 2008 at 04:15


    I have a few friends down in the Antarctic. Well I did. Season is over for them right now. Anyway, I asked him about the man, vs. nature thing awhile back ago. He said, we have seen 1000 years of change occur over the past 50. They can tell by coring the ice what has occurred and the rate in which it has occurred. Kind of like examining the rings on a tree.

  96. 100 Roberto
    October 23, 2008 at 04:38

    RE “” I too find it inconceivable that an all-powerful God could create life, the universe and everything then be so petty as to play mind games by keeping his/her existence hidden as a test of faith. “”

    ** You’re handicapped by limits of what you can conceive.

    If God could create all that, you could never make much headway trying to understand him save what he reveals. Besides, aren’t secrets of physics, science, nature, mathematics locked away until someone stumbles upon the key?

    They’ve only been there for eons. What else are we to stumble upon?

    One can see without perceiving. Was vacationing with inlaws in Nantucket and we visited a wildlife sanctury. Birders had set up nets to catch and tag small migrating songbirds, but hadn’t any luck. My French Aunt and I took a stroll and discovered a trove of the birds only 20 yds away.

    Finally talked one of the doubtful ladies to come and see, and damned if she couldn’t pick out a single one in spite of dozens only a few yards away. She was incredibly dull and slow of reflex and ill equipped to catch sight of the darting clever birds who seemed to enjoy toying with her.

    Well, it was good for some laughs. Guess you’d have to be there, eh?

  97. 101 Bob in Queensland
    October 23, 2008 at 04:56

    @ Will

    Absolutely there is cyclical climate change here on earth. As Dwight mentions, things like ice core samples prove this.

    However, also as Dwight says, I don’t think there is any longer much doubt that the actions of man have converted the gentle cycle into a juggernaut careering out of control.

  98. October 23, 2008 at 04:57

    Dwight –

    I don’t deny that the Earth is getting warmer. I never have – but I do say that the probability of global warming or climate change is a matter that it’s both a natural phenomenon and helped by man’s pumping out of carbon.

    All you have to do is look at the ice age – and before that. Those same Antarctic scientists found that that place was once covered in forest, a lot of things have happened over the past 3.5/4 billion years that we just don’t know about yet.

  99. 103 Nikitas
    October 23, 2008 at 05:04

    Enough politics, enough bank talk and enough religion! Can we please take a different approach to the next chat. I’d like to focus on the state of other necessary industries. Air travel for example. Why are our governments not doing anything to support the commercial air industry such as they have in the recent while with the banks. Many airlines are suffering and a single failure in any major airline would wreak havoc on any single economy. Should we do for the airlines what we’re doing for the banking sector?

    A few brief notes on recent airline activity:

    Lufthansa has rapidly engulfed regional carriers into it’s corporation, ie. Swiss…

    Air France/KLM merge and are looking to take over further airlines to be incorporated into their brand.

    Spanish airline LTE suspends operations.

    QANTAS reports of major falls in passenger demand.

    SAS takes over Spainair.

    NWA and Delta airlines merge to form the the World’s single largest commercial aviation operator.

    Airlines around the World race to join alliances to promote inter-airline co-operations.

    The governments of Greece and Italy struggle to prevent the failure of their nation’s national carriers.

    Most airlines continue to post losses.

    Is enough being done?

    I believe that governments should supply much needed financial support to airlines who would be willing to re-scale their operations. Providing them with funds to invest in more efficient, higher capacity, faster and more environmentally sound aircraft. Both airlines and investors/governments should work to cap air travel to promote a more economically sound industry.

    Who knows, maybe with the right plan we could see the return of full service on board economic flights! I sure miss the days when a pillow, blanket, meal and headphones were all part of the cost and not extra!

  100. 104 Nikitas
    October 23, 2008 at 05:14

    While the Queen is wearing clothes made from previous outfits of hers, Sen. Sarah Palin is receiving a hugely expensive makeover by the US’ GOP.
    For all the Women out there who claim how sexism is flaunted all over this particular campaign let me say this…

    “They would have NEVER EVER made such lavish efforts with a male candidate and NEVER EVER have!”

    If sexism is being promoted during this campaign, it’s only because the Republicans are asking for it. The Queen of England and the Commonwealth is setting a remarkable example at a much needed time given the World’s economic state. While Sen. Palin is strutting around in unnecessary and (new) expensive threads.

    KUDOS 2 HRH!

  101. 105 Pangolin-California
    October 23, 2008 at 05:14

    Bob~ Re: Australian views on climate change

    Australia is totally schizophrenic on climate change. At the same time they export a brazillian tons of coal yearly they are the country most likely to benefit from an early transition to zero-carbon energy sources. Oz is also the country most likely to benefit from using biochar as a soil amendment and carbon capture due to its’ depleted soils.

    Do the people in Oz recognize this strange behavior?

    Will~ The climate change on Mars thing has been totally discredited. Check realclimate.org for details. The coal we burn was laid down over hundreds of thousands to millions of years. We are burning it in hundreds of years. Time scale matters.

  102. 106 Bob in Queensland
    October 23, 2008 at 05:45

    @ Pangolin

    The dichotomy between Australia’s “green policies” and it’s reliance on coal as an industry and export product is well recognised down here and a major topic for debate. An example of this is THIS TANSCRIPT of an item that appeared on ABC television last year. (There are lots of others but this example also provides lots of useful statistics.)

    I think the main thing is that the Australia attitude is very much one of “do what we can, right away” rather than wait to be able to solve every problem instantly. Yes, there are big centralised projects…but there is also a lot more emphasis on little things everyone can do, ranging from simply switching to low energy light bulbs (conventional tungsten bulbs are getting harder to find in shops) through many personal solar panel and wind turbine projects. Yes, a good part of this is also that the country is perfectly suited for these things…but at least it’s good to see it happening.

    I’ll refrain from making jokes about “Brazillian tons of coal” being shipments with the unsightly hair bits waxed off!

  103. 107 Zainab from Iraq
    October 23, 2008 at 05:58

    @Dan October 22, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    An Iraqi priest asked an American soldier: “If my house has stolen and there was a gaurd in it.. who should i blame???”

  104. October 23, 2008 at 06:24

    Ugh – I ALWAYS hate getting into this argument.

    Pango – I read that site quite often, I like it, I like the guest posts, I like that many people are involved. It’s really cush to me that they are.

    What I am saying, while looking at that site and a few more, Discover Mag and others, there is both argument for and against global ‘planet’ warming throughout the Solar system.

    I really don’t know how to put it in clearer English – I agree that the Earth is going through a certain climate change. I am not a geologist so I can only speak my opinion after reading what I have read. And after reading what I have I came to the conclusion that, at the moment we do not know enough to state that it is all man or a combination of both natural and man-made, I believe it is a combination of both.

    We live in our heated world – and so many of us look at the last 50 years. The industrial revolution took place a lot longer ago than that – and I AGREE that the carbon we kick out must have some effect, how much I will leave to more eminent people than I.

  105. October 23, 2008 at 06:27

    Bob – Aus Sheila’s are intelligent, read the post on my blog ‘Three to Zero’ and the replies by PP – she’s cool! 😀

    PS Pango – I sent you a mail, did you get it or don’t you reply to email?

  106. 110 Tom D Ford
    October 23, 2008 at 06:57

    @ Dan October 22, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    My, My how one parses words.
    Perhaps English is unfamiliar to you or perhaps you enjoy baiting people. Either way it is transparent.
    Not one Arab gave a damn about the Palestinians. That is FACT. For 60 years they have been imprisoned in “refugee camps” inprisoned by Muslim masters.” …


    It has only been some sixty years since Christians gassed Jews in showers, burned their dead bodies in crematoriums and then picked out the gold that remained from their teeth.

    Dan, you have absolutely no moral ground to stand upon!

    Just say no to Religion!

  107. 111 Pangolin-California
    October 23, 2008 at 07:03

    So president Bush is sitting in the oval office when an aide sticks his head in the door and says “3 Brazilian soldiers just got killed in Iraq.”

    George puts his head in his hands and says “remind me again; how many is a brazilian?”

    Thus the internet proclivity for counting things in brazilians.

    Will~ nothing in my inbox. Checking your blog I noticed you got banned from Digg. Do tell, how does one do that?

  108. 112 Bob in Queensland
    October 23, 2008 at 07:05

    @ Tom D. Ford

    Just say no to Religion!

    Amen to that!

    Oh. Er. Oops!

  109. October 23, 2008 at 07:26

    Ardent Digger of Obama submissions and ardent un-digger of lies propagated of McCain propaganda on Digg. Digg even shows “Diggers have said this story may be inaccurate” [sic] whether it BBC, ABC, NBC, NYT, LAT, or any other legitimate source. If you get reported enough by wing-nuts, Digg ban’s you – happened to thousands of Obama Diggers, they have all, or most, gone to Reddit or Mixx.

    I had 10k (ish) Diggs and 250(ish) submissions, plus my own blog.

    I don’t know how you have your mail set up, Pango – but I sent it a few days ago, I sent it to the mail you use here. In junk? If not, if you go to ‘Contact me’ on my blog I will resend it.

  110. 114 Pangolin-California
    October 23, 2008 at 07:46

    Will~ There it was in my spam filter. How odd since you didn’t promise to make anything larger, thinner or more attractive to the mate I don’t have.

    A trip to the spam filter does make one wonder if the US has problems that go well beyond mere financial implosion and impending ecocide. Things must not be working right on some very basic levels. I often think this watching the local college students desperately trying to kill some pain of memory with ethanol. I’ve never found “drunk” to be a desirable state so I just don’t get what they’re after.

  111. 115 Zainab from Iraq
    October 23, 2008 at 09:55

    Why we helped our son die
    THE grieving parents of paralysed rugby player Danny James last night told of their decision to help their beloved son die — at the heartbreakingly young age of 23.
    Danny had told parents Mark and Julie that his broken body had become “a prison” and he could not bear the thought of spending the rest of his life in a wheelchair after a training accident… His parents eventually made the agonising decision to travel with him to Switzerland, where he took his life in an assisted suicide clinic…

    Published: 18 Oct 2008

    Please is there no choice but death? How could they help in killing their son??

  112. October 23, 2008 at 10:51

    US Looking for Trouble in Iraq!
    TEHRAN – US Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen is an honourable man. He said it was urgent that Iraq signed the Status of Forces Agreement on Tuesday, and complained that Iran was scuttling the agreement. He is right.
    US President George W. Bush says that his friend Prince Bandar wants him to stay. Also true, but that was a long time ago, when he was entrenched in his position in Washington. Kings and princes are whimsical. And the times are a-changing.
    Iraq has gone through thick and thin since the murder of King Faisal in 1958. We have seen it all: General Abdul Karim Qassim up to General Hassan al-Bakr and Saddam Hossein, we have lived through it. Kurds, Turkemans, Shias, Sunnis, Christians, and Jews have learnt to live side by side, but they are fiercely nationalistic.
    Iran has had its squabbles with Iraq but that’s over now!
    An independent Iraq can withstand any insurgency but not with US troops stationed in the country. Masoud Barzani President of the Kurdistan Region voiced support for US Coalition Forces in Tehran yesterday. Washington was instrumental in his rise to power. He was sincere, a man of his word.
    The KDP leader can muster 20,000 troops and probably more but that’s beside the point. The military solution has been exhausted in Iraq, Baghdad wants peace, stability and security for all its citizens which is impossible if Coalition Forces remain.

  113. 117 Zainab from Iraq
    October 23, 2008 at 12:19

    Iraqi-American agreement

    Admiral Michael Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Iraq risked significant security consequences if it did not consent to an agreement that would set the conditions of a U.S. troop presence in Iraq after the end of this year. U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates echoed Adm. Mullen’s comments, saying time was running out and the door was nearly closed on reopening negotiations.

    For God sake what risks is he talking about?!! are there more risks than what we’ve been through?? how does he know about the danger that might happen if Iraq does not sign??? Unless he will create that danger 😉

    It’ seems that Adm. Mullen has lost his patience and the play has over.. Now Iraq you don’t have other choice.. you must sign or elsa..

  114. 118 Dan
    October 23, 2008 at 12:33

    @Tom D Ford October 23, 2008 at 6:57 am
    Your argument makes no sense. In any event there is no perfection anywhere in history or the world. This may not be an issue for you as judgments are leveled seemingly by your standards of that perfection.
    You have been brutal toward all Republicans and Conservatives. How can one condemn an entire class of people? Did they poison your cornflakes?
    Jews, Christians, Buddhists etc…etc all have done bad things in the past but they reformed themselves but you seem to indicate that in your view that matters not.
    The truth of the Palestinians is that they have been imprisoned in refugee camps by lies and force for 60 years while their leaders steal their aid money and enrich themselves. Arafat died a Billionaire.

  115. 119 Vijay
    October 23, 2008 at 12:36

    @ Bob in Queensland

    Thank you for the information,just curious ,someone asked me about the pay.

  116. 120 Zainab from Iraq
    October 23, 2008 at 12:39

    Iraqi-American agreement

    Admiral Michael Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Iraq risked significant security consequences if it did not consent to an agreement that would set the conditions of a U.S. troop presence in Iraq after the end of this year. U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates echoed Adm. Mullen’s comments, saying time was running out and the door was nearly closed on reopening negotiations.

    For God sake what “significant security consequences” is he talking about?!! are there more risks than what we’ve been through?? how does he know about the danger that might happen if Iraq does not sign??? Unless he will create that danger 😉

    I’m sorry but is this the freedom that Bush is saying that he has given to Iraq.. Imposing an order on it!!!!.. Wooow what a FREEDOM!!

    It’ seems that Adm. Mullen has lost his patience and the play has over.. Now Iraq YOU don’t have other choice.. you must sign or else..

  117. 121 roebert
    October 23, 2008 at 12:51

    Does God exist? What is undeniable is that mere EXITENZ exists, as apart from existent phenomena. The fact of existence exists. This fact becomes awe-inspiring the moment you stop taking it for granted. You live and move and have your being in this fact. Whether you want to call it God, or not, is your choice. If you feel you can simply take it for granted, you must be extremely shallow and ignorant.

    Should religions be done away with? Yes, if every other human institution capable of both good and bad is done away with too.

    Sex education: as much as possible, as tastefully as possible, as soon as possible, focussing not only on STD’s and HIVaids, but also on the global dangers of overpopulation etc.

  118. October 23, 2008 at 13:07


    The earth does “wobble” on its access. This causes a cyclical Ice age ever 23,000. The last one was 11,000 years ago. Really we should have 13,000 years to go before we reach maximum summer. So is there a natural occurrence, yes. should we be able to feel, see, or recoginize the effects? No.

    Also, Antarctica has not had vegetation on it for at least 70 million years. Also, “Greenland” was not green when it was discovered or in the recent history. IT was a marketing ploy to try to get people to settle there. Who would go to “crusty frozen land with hard ground and ugly women land?” Besides that name being too long, it also wasn’t going to convince anyone to go spread the European influence.

    The danger in people believing the global warming is a natural occurrence is that the human race in general are lazy. They would sooner throw up their hands and say, “there is nothing we can do about it.” then to actually make behavioral changes.

  119. 123 Bob in Queensland
    October 23, 2008 at 13:13

    Re: Sex Education

    Speaking as a parent, sex education should start from the first time a child asks a question about sex–which in my experience is somewhere between 18 months and 2 years old. So long as parents answer such questions simply and honestly you’re off to a good start.

    On the other hand, if you assume sex education is the responsibility of others with arbitrary ages to “start”, then you have problems.

  120. 124 Roberto
    October 23, 2008 at 13:37

    RE “hidden God” and hidden X-rays:

    ——- Turns out pulled scotch tape creates substantial X-rays in a vacuum, enough to take pictures.

    Per Nature: http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081022/full/news.2008.1185.html

    No doubt the physics/chemistry boys will huddle to come up with a handy-dandy formula to explain it away so we can sleep well at night, but the point being we are constantly dumbfounded by the depth and breadth of new discoveries and have little context to understand what many of these things mean to the larger picture which is infinitely larger than we will know in this lifetime.

  121. October 23, 2008 at 13:43

    Hi Zainab from Iraq
    Reyr October 23, 2008 at 12:39 pm posting
    Washington wants assurances from Baghdad that the peace process is in place and will remain, but Iraq is an integral part of that peace process, and must be allowed to excercise its judgement.
    Everything depends on a balance of power in the Mideast. It is important to respect that fragile pact, US included.
    Future US Administration must be permitted to decide on the future of Coalition Forces in Iraq, that is only fair.
    Washington could obviously harm Iraq in the short term: Sanctions on oil majors, limiting technology transfer, cutting down on Iraqi visas to US etc…, but that would be short sighted; look what happened in Iran!
    Al-Dabagh and Jaffari have said it, Iraq will not tolerate an ultimatum from Washington, that stands.

  122. 126 Meg in Canada
    October 23, 2008 at 13:56

    I suppose we are all biased by our own experience, but here is my two-cents worth:

    I learned about sex when I was ten years old. Looking back, I don’t think there is a need for children to learn about sexual education. In most cases children don’t start to reach sexual maturity (mainly girls) until they are 12 or 13 at the youngest (there are some earlier cases) so I think it was helpful for me to learn what was going to change in my body before it happened so I wasn’t afraid of it.

    Re: abstienence-only. I think this is silly, personally. Withholding education about something that happens naturally (and I can assume here that most people will have sexual intercourse at some point in their lives) doesn’t mean it won’t happen. At the end of the day, it is left to the judgment of the person, so isn’t it more desirable for that person to make an informed decision armed with knowledge about consequences, etc than to make that kind of decision without knowing? Chances are, even if children do not hear about sex in school, they WILL hear about it from another source. So why not make sure that source is giving correct information – instead of myths like “You can’t get a girl pregnant if she’s on top”… we need to stop misconceptions like this from spreading.

  123. 127 selena in Canada
    October 23, 2008 at 14:27

    There is just as much, or more, of a need for attitude education as there is a need for sex education. 🙂

  124. October 23, 2008 at 14:37

    One is never too young to be taught about sex education.I was taught never to steal when young well i didnt become a crook though I had a choice.So when a kid begins to grasp understanding teach him/her about sex.After all its not good to say blame it on the hormones when things happen. Rather say blame it on lack of sex education knowledge.

  125. 129 Dan
    October 23, 2008 at 15:01

    The news from Zimbabwe today is bleak. Once the breadbasket of Africa there is now no food in Zimbabwe.
    Grocery stores have bare shelves and farmers have no crops. Inflation is over 10 MILLION percent.
    While international aid agencies are gearing up to prevent a cataclysmic disaster, why is Robert Mugabe not been arrested by the UN World Court and charged with “Crimes against Humanity”? Perhaps the UN is too busy drafting another anti-Israel resolution.
    When Zimbabwe was Rhodesia under British rule food was plentiful. Rhodesia was a true paradise. Mugabe made it a living hell. Where is the UN? I guess they must appoint a High Commissioner who has to first figure out how much money they can skim to enrich themselves.
    Is re-colonization by Great Britain the answer?

  126. October 23, 2008 at 15:24

    Perhaps it is irresponsible and disgraceful for the parents to teaches their kids about sexs activities/edecuations, because sexs is the an agreement between male and female of the same kind,therefore should remains an individual opts.Now if they parents teaches their kids about sex educuations then what will be the different between prostitute educuations and parents teaching about sexs?, i will not be party neither will i join that group.

  127. 131 Savane, Nairobi
    October 23, 2008 at 15:33

    Growing up in my middle-class neighbourhood in Nairobi, my Mum was responsible for sex-ed. I think it was because she was the only midwife in the neighbourhood.

    I started sex-ed with my daughters when they started asking “What’s that?” and “Where do babies come from?” as toddlers.

    They are now 7 and 11. The depth of my diiscussions with my Z-year old depend on how soon her eyes glaze over! She’s at the biological-definitions stage. My 11-year old is maturing physically faster than I’d like her to (my baby’s growing up!) and we are open with each other (as tongue-tied as I sometimes get). Her emotions are topsy-turvy as she’s caught between tween and teen years.

    My daughters’ school has a Lifeskills programme. It’s not endorsed by our Education Ministry – the Churches, sadly, are very powerful in Kenya, and equate sex-ed with teaching kids to have sex, as opposed to educating them on the ‘what’s’ and ‘why’s’ about their changing bodies and emotions. (I’m a practising Catholic). I volunteer to speak to female students at their school as well (ONLY with parental consent) because they’re too uncomfortable with the subject matter. We talk about their biological and emotional changes and making the right choices, as opposed to the popular ones.

    Equally unfortunate, I’ve been trying to get Ministerial approval for the last 3 years for a license to carry out safety training against sexual abuse for children between 2 and 12 years in upper- and middle-income groups! NGOs that cover the same have approval because rape is considered a rural and low-income ‘issue’, but its reach (the education) is also limited!

    No Ministerial approval yet, but I’m not giving up!! I hear stuff from these girls that makes me so angry that we have a ‘sweep-it-under-the-carpet-and maybe it’ll-go-away” culture. I’m a survivor of childhood rape. Information is power!!!

    I’m not done yet! 😉

  128. October 23, 2008 at 15:54

    Fortunately,when Zimbabwe was under Rhodesia government there was aplenty of food.It was atrue paradise. “Dan” that food was big enough for the British gvt to feeds her WHITES people during Rhodesia era but it was not for BLACKS. Now the big problems for Africa as a whole is a bad governances and people are not well a ware of population control as well as people still beliefs in polygamy which was African traditionals practices as best systems of marriage hence overpopulation which leads to “taking one meal or even sleeping with empty stomach a day”.

  129. 133 Pangolin-California
    October 23, 2008 at 16:04

    Refusing sex education is like handing kids a gun and not explaining what happens when you shift the little lever. Anybody who thinks that abstinence works should just look what happened to Sarah Palin’s daughter Bristol.

    Kids, especially girls, need to be taught about sex, about the why’s and wherefores of physical intimacy, about alternatives to copulation and finally they need practical lessons in the application of barrier methods of birth control and STD prevention.

    Yep, that means they need the “apply the condom to the latex banana” lesson. Pretending that most of them aren’t going to have sex is a sad lie.

  130. 134 Anthony
    October 23, 2008 at 17:13

    @ Pangolin

    Fisrt off, I didn’t site any Christian web sites, nor did I get that info from them, it was all from my curious noggin’ and I was asking for help via an explaination.

    Second, if you bothered to read the first paragraph of your link, it says how that is a “controversial idea” and the rest tells how there are different theories and how different scientists think they are right. Wow, that sure is proof, scientists shooting eachothers ideas down, lol!!!

    I mean, are you really gonna believe Bazinet when HE CALLS HIS OWN WORK “highly speculative”

    Lol, the truth is you believe in that just like Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God “Because the bible says so.” 🙂

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  131. October 23, 2008 at 17:19

    Dressing is about been look pretty but good dresser is not always been a good politician because of your dressing/decorations, in some case Africans chiefs in the past were dressless but the maintain to gives their people a basics services and better leadership even democracy was played in open-voting.

  132. 136 Jens
    October 23, 2008 at 17:23


    after years of education, I just barly made it into pay scale 2 of BBC……i always thought that a PhD and all the work will pay off at one point, I guess not.

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