Talking Points 22nd October

Will in Canada is your host for your ideas after the show.

Good evening, Morning, Night.

I’d like to see if this would fly and if it would be a good subject for the show. The space race. Not the US Vs the Soviets, but the new nations who are planning on going to the moon. Here are a few links for you to read if you wish:

India readies first moon mission

India was set to launch its first lunar mission Wednesday, putting the country in an elite group of nations with the scientific know-how to reach the moon, while heating up a burgeoning Asian space race. The Chandrayaan-1 will join Japanese and Chinese crafts in orbit around the moon for a two-year mission designed to map out the whole lunar surface. Chandrayaan means “Moon Craft” in ancient Sanskrit.

China Vs the US

China on the moon

Over to you….

101 Responses to “Talking Points 22nd October”

  1. 1 Tom D Ford
    October 21, 2008 at 19:13

    One. #1

  2. 2 Lubna
    October 21, 2008 at 19:22

    Hi my Precious Will in Canada… Here’s an article for all of you guys to read :
    With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…

  3. 3 Robert
    October 21, 2008 at 19:48

    Re The Space Race

    I think the true space race will be in the private sector. It is a symbol of national pride to send a man to the moon, but once done, where do you go from there? This is the challenge NASA has had for the last 20 or so years.

    Once corporations are involved and space becomes profitable then space will truly start opening up. The projects and missions will be larger scale, longer duration, and more frequent.

  4. 4 Jessica in NYC
    October 21, 2008 at 21:14

    @ Will and Tom

    I in fanatically support option 4! Wait, whose wearing the Nikes or Addidas? 😉

    I think it’s important for the new generation of kids to grow up with space explorations. It certainly captivated my interested in science and math growing up.

  5. 5 steve
    October 21, 2008 at 21:19

    @ Robert

    I doubt many private corporations could fund trips to Mars.

    NASA had large ambitions for space in the 1970s, but budget cutbacks reduced that. The Space Shuttle was orginally designed to service space stations that were never built. Some of these space stations were much more ambitious than the current ISS.

    The US will not have a manned space program for at least 5 years from 2010-2015 until the Ares program comes into service, assuming no delays.

  6. 6 Jessica in NYC
    October 21, 2008 at 21:23

    @ Dan
    From yesterday’s talking points: “You are way too cynical.”

    When it comes to political who are paid a salary with tax payer dollars, “ya betcha I am”. Especially when those hypocrites hold up the bible and preach high morals like Sen. Stevens… “It doesn’t belong to me”…give me a break. Another corruption case from the AP: Former Thai leader found guilty of corruption

    “At least McCain had the decency & integrity to marry his fortune.”

    LOL! If by “decency” you mean abandoning his first wife who was handicapped to marry his rich mistress. Watch your step getting off that high horse.

  7. 7 Dan
    October 21, 2008 at 21:26

    I was being humorous agreeing with you. These elected officials are out of control. They suck up to the lobbyists. In a public meeting I admonished my Congressman that if he is no longer in congress no lobbyist will remember his name much less call him.

    P.S. Are you in NYC? Can you send pizza???? PLEASE!!!!

  8. 8 Jessica in NYC
    October 21, 2008 at 21:37

    Don’t look now GOP and Rush Limbaugh, but here is another high post Republican supporting Obama and pssst, he’s not black.

    From the Moderate Voice: Ken Adelman, Conservative Republican for Obama

  9. 9 steve
    October 21, 2008 at 21:43

    I think it’s logical for people from the opposite party to want to support the other. The country is going down the tubes, and whomever is elected won’t be able to do a thing about it, so the other party, the one that gets elected, will take the blame. So 4 years from now, whomever doesn’t win this year, will win, because things are going to be so much worse.

    Also, secretly, or not, talk show hosts want the people they disagree with to win, because it gives them talking points and something to complain about for 4 years.

  10. 10 Jennifer
    October 21, 2008 at 21:44

    Dear Moderator selectively posting comments,

    Please contact me regarding my last post!

    Thank you:)

  11. 11 Robert
    October 21, 2008 at 21:56


    Agreed Mars is obviously out the question for now, but I think manned space flight could take a lot from the way satellites have been developed.

    Do NASA get involved with earth orbit satellites any more (Hubble being an exception off course) No, they and the Russian did the original leg work but now the private sector covers the satellites and rockets are effectively a commercialized wing of European, Russia and American space program. Since the private sector found an application, they found the money they needed and the number of satellites in orbit has exploded.

    NASA has done almost all the leg work needed for the technology for Earth orbit and Lunar facilities, all that they need to find now is the killer application. Once they find the first one or two they need to patent it and license it. Then allow the private sector to take over and it will figure out the rest. Focus government money (and the profits from the licenses) and resources on the next frontier Mars. Once they’ve figured out the kill app and technology for Mars, turn it over to the private sector again and focus on the next frontier, the Asteroid belt etc etc.

  12. October 21, 2008 at 22:00


    We are volunteers and do have to get on with our lives while moderating. I know we normally get to posts with in a minute, we are the quickest moderated blog because you do have such volunteers.

    Sometime real life gets in the way, I do apologise.

  13. 13 Roberto
    October 21, 2008 at 22:02

    RE “” LOL! If by “decency” you mean abandoning his first wife who was handicapped to marry his rich mistress. “”

    ——– Now dearie, there you go again.

    Don’t know the particulars of whether Cindy was ever John’s “mistress” and I suspect you don’t either. Otherwise you would note that he did not abandon his first wife who in fact has worked in his campaigns to get him elected. Not exactly the actions of a woman spurned and abandoned.

    Now, it’s easy to make stuff up, like Obama becoming a Muslim whilst in Indonesia or McCain pistol whipping a lower ranking officer in a rage, but that’s the modus operandi of others, not me. May be some whispers out there, but until proven they are up there with Elvis alive and retired to a Siberian dacha or Ronald Reagan having a heart attack with caused a massive sell off by Wall Street back in the day.

    Perhaps you can pray tell us why folks make up rumours. Me suspects nefarious purpose, so what sayeth you?

  14. 14 Jessica in NYC
    October 21, 2008 at 22:03

    @ Dan

    As another person said to me, I have pie on my face. 😦 I appreciate good sarcasm and that just passed over my head. My sincerest apologies, the least I can do is buy you some pizza.

    My favorite is Ray’s Pizza. The calzones are excellent, too.

  15. 15 Kelsie in Houston
    October 21, 2008 at 22:03

    Easy, Jennifer–delays happen; try not to take it personally…sheesh.

  16. 16 Kelsie in Houston
    October 21, 2008 at 22:05

    “At least McCain had the decency & integrity to marry his fortune.”

    Maybe I’m missing something: exactly how is that “decency” or “integrity?” It’s not “sleazy” or anything else unpleasant, I don’t think–but not really a demonstration of decency or integrity; especially in a nation that takes great pride in “self-made” individualism…

  17. 17 Anthony
    October 21, 2008 at 22:06

    Robert and Steve

    You never know, what if they were to find something like very potent Uranium deposits or something like that, do you think corpotations would be willing to go up there then???

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  18. 18 Julie P
    October 21, 2008 at 22:16


    Are you messing with the commentators comments again?! You bad, bad, boy! I’m telling on you! 😉

  19. 19 Jessica in NYC
    October 21, 2008 at 22:17

    @ Jennifer

    LOL! You have some chip on that shoulder. Relax. Will is not selective, several people’s comments were in queue. Some people’s post do not require approval, since they are moderators, this is why ours are post go through immediately.

  20. 20 Robert
    October 21, 2008 at 22:17


    We all know there’s no Uranium up there. It’s all made of cheese, the earthly cows need to be careful, or they may soon be redundant.


  21. 21 steve
    October 21, 2008 at 22:20

    Wow, I’m finally important! I got the “Obsession” DVD in the mail today, which I read that was being sent out to voters in various places. I might play ultimate frisbee with it.

  22. 22 Jessica in NYC
    October 21, 2008 at 22:27

    @ Roberto

    HAHAHAhahahaha. Somethings are true whether you want to believe them or not: L.A. ‘Times’ Questions McCain’s Divorce Timeline

    @ Kelsie

    I misinterpreted Dan’s comment. He was being sarcastic.

  23. 23 Roberto
    October 21, 2008 at 22:28

    RE: “” The space race. “”

    ——- Not many know that the astounding success of the US part in the space race was because of the efforts of then VP, Lyndon Johnson.

    He set up everthing and, boom, it took off and has flown to the corners of the universe. Not bad for an crude provincial red neck Texan.

    So, what does this 2008 election mean? Well, one could only imagine the evisceration of Lyndon if he was veep candidate.

    Obama not only has raised almost double the money this month what McCain has to spend for the entire campaign, but he has all his hair. The only balding presidents ever elected are John Quincy Adam, John Garfield, who was assassinated, and Dwight Eisenhower. No wonder he’s so feisty, being one of the shorter candidates in history to boot.

    Biden has released his medical records indicating he’s had some severe problems in the past including brain surgery for aneurysms, but this blog seems preoccupied with the health of McCain’s skin cancer. Yet Obama’s parents both died early, father age 46, mother age 53 approx and Obama is 47. Apparently both of Palin’s parents are still living, probably right at their 70s.

    Anywhoo, it’s something to consider that I don’t see being addressed.

  24. 24 Julie P
    October 21, 2008 at 22:36


    I see you’ve been diving into one of those anti-American pockets and reading their socialist rag sheets! Shame! Deep shame! 😉

  25. 25 Jonathan
    October 21, 2008 at 22:42


    Excellent point about the private sector in space, and satellites are an excellent example. I’m not sure that government involvement is reqlly required at the start though; I don’t think bureaucrats are inherently more visoinary than entrepreneurs. If it is involved, I think it’s reasonable to require that if no profitable “killer application” (no productive endeavor) is found or figured out, at some point the government should stop pouring money in. This may already be the case for manned space travel of any sort; advances in robotics make unmanned space ever more capable and less expensive, while the requirements of human biology are a fixed and enormous cost with small and shrinking return. NASA seems committed to it just for PR purposes and from inertia. I don’t think any serious scientist agrees.

  26. 26 Dennis@OCC
    October 21, 2008 at 22:44

    Hi Will and the of my friends!

    i prefer the space race than an arms race!

    i have to agreed with everyone else…when i did my weekend, i
    was doing a thousand things at once..!


  27. 27 Kelsie in Houston
    October 21, 2008 at 22:50

    Aw crud–kudos to Dan: two birds with one pie.

  28. 28 Jonathan
    October 21, 2008 at 22:53

    If there’s delicious cheese out there, forget everything I said. Or, I’ll revise and extend to make sure that cheese mining counts as a “productive endeavor.”

  29. 29 Robert
    October 21, 2008 at 22:58


    The private sector needs to see that there is some sort of goal to start with. Not the details, but it needs something that it can sell its business plans on and get the investment. The government does have more freedom in terms of true blue sky research.

    I don’t think much government work is needed to kick it off. For instance, NASA wouldn’t need to build a working mine on the Moon, they would just need to find a deposit of some ore and the private sector will do the rest. Or perhaps a couple of experiments which show a new form of super conducting semiconducting whatever can be made on a space station with wide ranging uses and then a company would become involved with commercial development and manufacture.

  30. 30 Dan
    October 21, 2008 at 23:00

    @Jessica in NYC October 21, 2008 at 10:03 pm
    NY Pizza Mmmmm I am getting on a plane now!!!

    One day when I am in New York again and that will be soon, I will take you up on that offer!!

  31. 31 Roberto
    October 21, 2008 at 23:00

    RE “” HAHAHAhahahaha. Somethings are true “”

    ——– That reminds me that you previously posted a couple of links to bogus news stories.

    Your link is long on interpretive code words and short of confessional detail, yet chock full of plenty of “gotcha, wink, wink, aren’t we so smarmy and clever” insinuations that pass as news.

    McCain has never made himself out to be a sainted figure of reverence, confessing to a host of sins, so it’s completely irrelevant if he says he was divorced in Feb when he filed as opposed to March when it was granted, streamlined like 95% of all divorces where timelines merge in memory.

    It’s much more informative that his ex has always supported his campaign efforts and seems to have an amicable relationship with his new family. Of course that tepid news don’t sell the tabloid media that stimulate your imagination beyond your day to day existence.

  32. 32 Dan
    October 21, 2008 at 23:02

    You’ll get to know my strange sense of humor…no worrries.

  33. 33 Dan
    October 21, 2008 at 23:12

    Please watch the DVD you received. It will not bite you.
    You may be surprised or not but as an attorney you know that the more data you have the better picture you can produce to support or modify ones views.

  34. October 21, 2008 at 23:13


    I do know about McCains first wife. Pick your favorite fact finding site and plug in the questions that haunt you. Here are the quick one you can find out. McCain was still married to his wife.

    Cindy McCain, 18 years John’s Jr., started dating in April of 1979. 1 year later John stopped living with his then wife, Carol and got a divorce. A former swim suit model, Carol was in an accident in 1969 while on her way to her parents house that left her bound to a wheel chair. John McCain would later say, “My marriage’s collapse was attributable to my own selfishness and immaturity more than it was to Vietnam, and I cannot escape blame by pointing a finger at the war. The blame was entirely mine.” Great guy, huh?

    More info can be found here Cindy McCain

  35. October 21, 2008 at 23:23

    I know women that keep going back to guys that beat the crap out of them. That doesn’t make the guy a great guy. I don’t know. The conservatives have sure made a big deal about morals in this race. They claim that they are not accusing Obama of being a terrorist by bringing up Ayers, but they want the American people to know what kind of person he is. With McCain’s ability to lie, cheat, and fraud added to his (palling around with) current wife’s ability to steal from a children’s charity, I would say we have a great team of moralistic ideal on the GOP ticket.

  36. 36 Pangolin-California
    October 21, 2008 at 23:43

    Re: Space Race~ Lifelong science fiction geeks like me think the best mission to advance humanity in space would be an asteroid capture. If we could get a large enough asteroid in earth orbit that would provide raw materials for a substantial space station or colony.

    An asteroid that could be diverted to an earth to mars orbit could serve as a ferry. Capture of a small comet would provide water needed to make air and possibly carbon.

    Going to the moon is relatively easy and cheap but ultimately not very useful. It you want to go these guys want to take you there.

  37. 37 Robert Evans
    October 22, 2008 at 00:00

    @ Pangolin

    The cost in money is something like $50m.

  38. October 22, 2008 at 00:12

    Well guys, this is little bit interesting, isn’t it ?!
    With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad… PS, I am truely amazed that till now on this page there’s no comment making generalised attacks against Islam and Muslims… Come on guys, the TP page is losing its flavour, so please, can anyone of you guys head forwards and indiscriminately insult Islam and Muslims ??! On previous WHYS blog pages, Muslims were compared to paedophiles and rapists, can anyone of you guys come up with something new ??!

  39. 39 Jonathan
    October 22, 2008 at 00:34


    As long as the manufacturing, cheese mining, etc. doesn’t involve people, I’m on board, so to speak.

    For blue-sky research, I’d much rather see DARPA than NASA doing it though. Way better track record. Not much useful came from the space program that I can think of, and what purportedly did (Teflon, Tang) could surely have come from terrestrial research.


    Oh, is that why it’s in Houston, and why it’s called the “Johnson Space Center?” You’re right; not many people could know. That’s the problem of being so shy and retiring as LBJ was. But he was smart and experienced; why would he be “eviscerated” today?

  40. October 22, 2008 at 01:04

    Kels –

    I heard it – and it was just a bunch of incoherent drivel!

  41. 44 Kelsie in Houston
    October 22, 2008 at 01:13

    A few of those ‘things’–you know the ones, they’re “just a fancy way of systematically predicting what’s gonna happen”…

    the BBC
    Real Clear Politics

  42. 45 Kelsie in Houston
    October 22, 2008 at 01:13

    They’re reprising it….what a snore! She’s good at back-pedaling, though…

  43. 46 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 01:17

    @Lubna October 22, 2008 at 12:12 am
    The answer to your question is so simple to be a no brainer.
    There have not been the horrific attacks aginst Muslims as the Muslims have against innocents.
    Muslim terror attacks on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being absolutely horrific are about 9.7.
    Attacked by others against Muslims are 1.085.
    I am astonished that you would ask this question as you have steadfastly refused to answer questions about Muslim violence.
    Muslims are v what they made themselves and it is something that hangs like a millstone around the necks of decent Muslims like yourself as you have not stood up and reclaimed your religion.

  44. October 22, 2008 at 01:21

    @WIll and Kel,

    She clearly stated that, “oh well you knw when I am vice president I am going to do those vice presidential things. I can’t wait to get into those energy things and make them change.” CNN: “But you will have a democratic legislator. How are you going to get things done? “oh well, I am gonna got both sides together and we are going to , you betch ha.”

    Some say we are moving towards socialism with the bailout. “oh well we can’t do that.”
    CNN: But was it a mistake to allow him to use the governor’s office to that extent?
    Palin: Not when you look at other governors’ track records when they had their spouse as for instance [former Alaska Gov. Frank Murkowski] had his spouse as his top adviser, and she was in meetings, she was in the office so, you know, kinda, of a double standard here. But what Todd was what any reasonable husband and father would do.

    What ius not clear about that?

  45. 48 Kelsie in Houston
    October 22, 2008 at 01:29

    Bahaha! It’s probably because I’m a member of the Liberal Academic Elite and thus don’t speak the same form of American English as Joe the Plumber…as someone else here pointed out, I do love my long words! 😀

    @Mrs Palin’s interview:
    You know, that’s a good point about that experience and we don’t like to toot our own horn so we don’t, I don’t talk about my experience that much in terms of years in office or in positions that have been executive experience

    Not to be pedantic but…

    …until one has been in the governor’s chair at least two whole years, one probably shouldn’t discuss “years” in office–unless Mrs Palin is equating the mayoral post in Wasilla with the governorship of Alaska (and the potential Presidency of the United States)…

  46. 49 Julie P
    October 22, 2008 at 01:33


    Sarah Palin is another Dan Quayle.

  47. October 22, 2008 at 01:36

    Kels –

    Get the video from the Daily Show last night and see what the mayor of Wasilla actually does! LOL

  48. 51 DENNIS@OCC
    October 22, 2008 at 01:47


    PS: this is the text from Lubna:

    On previous WHYS blog pages, Muslims were compared to paedophiles and rapists, can anyone of you guys come up with something new ??!

    How does Muslims compare to Paedophiles and rapists: Muslims are usually hard-working and the other parts of a normal society that they are involved with..Paedophiles and rapists on the other hand, are the moral decay of the society!

    Being a child molester or a rapist: is a NASTY and evil lifestyle….

    Being a Muslim, is being a good person and does the respected things in society…


  49. 52 DENNIS@OCC
    October 22, 2008 at 01:49

    Did anyone catch Mrs Palin’s interview on CNN today?

    I did see the interview on CNN…It was very entertaining….



  50. 53 Kelsie in Houston
    October 22, 2008 at 01:50

    1. It wasn’t that exact comparison; and
    2. I and others were quick to point out the significant differences: Islam is a religious choice whose moral gradient differs between individuals. Paedophilia is possibly “hard-wired” into an individual and is wrong. Period. There is no “wiggle room” on the morality of paedophilia/child molestation (technically not interchangeable…..being pedantic again)…

  51. 54 Kelsie in Houston
    October 22, 2008 at 01:51

    Mrs Palin on a visit to your state: “It’s wonderful to be here in the great state of Atlanta!”

    Shall do!

  52. 55 Julie P
    October 22, 2008 at 01:54


    That’s not going to happen it’s not a pro American pocket; therefore it’s not the real America. We have 5.1 million people here and no sheep.

  53. 56 DENNIS@OCC
    October 22, 2008 at 02:00

    Thanks Kelsie:

    For the clarify information…Could you or the moderator delete the comment at
    October 22, 2008 at 1:47 am….


  54. 57 DENNIS@OCC
    October 22, 2008 at 02:09

    To everyone:

    From Julie P Comments:

    Sarah Palin is another Dan Quayle.

    but, the problem is–that one cost, his boss the election and
    sarah palin, we don’t know the outcome….


  55. 58 Julie P
    October 22, 2008 at 02:22


    It was a joke.

  56. 59 DENNIS@OCC
    October 22, 2008 at 02:26

    @ Julie P:

    i know you were telling a joke…


  57. 60 Bob in Queensland
    October 22, 2008 at 02:46

    Morning All!

    I like “the future of space exploration” as a topic. You can count me as another who believes the future of the space race will likely be private enterprise.

    THIS WIKI ARTICLE talks about a book by Robert Zubrin putting forward the case for manned colonisation of Mars and how it could work technically in a private enterprise scenario. It’s recommended reading if you have an interest in the topic. Also, there’s a work of Science Fiction called “The Mars Race” by Gregory Benford which sketches a highly plausible and scientifically accurate scheme for a private trip to Mars.

    The fact is that NASA often over-complicate things and spend far too much. My favourite example of this was NASA spending hundreds of thousands developing a pressurised ball point pen that would work in zero gravity. The Russian solution was to have cosmonauts use a pencil!

  58. 62 Jennifer
    October 22, 2008 at 02:49

    @ Will

    Thanks for informing me that you are a volunteer. I know that. I am also well aware that my post had been setting there while others after it were posted. As seen from both this side and when I logged in to WordPress to work on my own blog via the dashboard. It was an interesting thing to see. So, yes, my post was left and not published. I understand that oversights occur and I’ve emailed Kate about it! 🙂 Thank you for your prompt response.

  59. 63 Kelsie in Houston
    October 22, 2008 at 02:55

    Bad news for Mrs Palin (sorry, Bob! I know we’re trying to get off into space…)

  60. October 22, 2008 at 02:59

    Jennifer –

    As you had logged in and ‘had a look at the dashboard’, which dashboard? You mean yours or here?

    If you had looked at this one why on earth didn’t you do me a favour and moderate those posts waiting?

    If you were unable to do that why not sign in to MSN – as we all do, and mention that your posts were backed up?

    Why didn’t you mail me directly – or one of the other mods?

    Many options for you to utilise, but alas…

  61. October 22, 2008 at 03:01

    AP broke it, too, Kels! :O

    Maybe they don’t want McCain to win after all?

  62. 66 Kelsie in Houston
    October 22, 2008 at 03:05

    The Liberal Regular Media strike again! We’ll have to wait on the Liberal Elite Media–the BBC, shockingly, is dealing with something important–India’s Moon launch…what’s the world coming to? 😀

  63. October 22, 2008 at 03:07

    Kels –

    I think the show should be about the Indian moon landing – but Palin is so important…if you get what I mean lol

  64. 68 Kelsie in Houston
    October 22, 2008 at 03:17

    Chill out.

    I seem to recall you lecturing me about how this is “only a blog.” You posted a chain of complaints about your comment’s lack of appearance when it was obvious no comments from non-moderators were going through–what is the old adage? “Patience is a virtue”? We’re only human here…on my nights, some posts have gone nearly 25 minutes without being posted because I got sidetracked or had to step away from the computer…be considerate of the moderators: we are certainly considerate of you.

  65. 69 Jessica in NYC
    October 22, 2008 at 03:17

    @ Roberto
    “insinuations that pass as news”.

    Is that what they were? 😛 I learned to play the games republicans do.*ha, ha*

  66. 70 DENNIS
    October 22, 2008 at 03:20

    I have to agreed with Will Rhodes about the show’s topic…Palin has so much to offered to the audience and viewers!



  67. 71 Jessica in NYC
    October 22, 2008 at 03:20

    @ Dwight & Julie P 😉

    Can’t help it, it just too much fun. It’s as easy as taking candy from a baby.

  68. 72 Roberto
    October 22, 2008 at 03:22

    RE “” Bad news for Mrs Palin””

    ——- Looks suspiciously like good news for all the Palin critics wishing to trash everything she does.

    I imagine Ms. Palin understood fully what she was doing, choosing to involve her children in some of her official duties. She was fortunate in being in a position of power to do so. Most children are shunted aside by high profile, heavily traveled businessmen and politicians.

    As someone who worked part of the very lucrative (for the fatcats, not me)mortgage financing services industry, I certainly couldn’t bring my own kids to the office for any reason really. The culture was post drunken collegiate years/pre child bearing/rearing years and was too rehensible to use to introduce children to the workforce in a friendly way as I was done with my father.

    Times were different when I was a child and in spite of all these so called miracle advances. Children are more at risk for a host of problems then they’ve been in many decades. Overall the world is as mean as it ever has been.

    It just floors me that with trillions of dollars of global savings eaten up by American financial fraud primarily, some have got nothing better to do with their political activities than focus on a politician least responsible for current fraud and global warming.

    That infantile mentality is why the world is in it’s current mess. Give me a benign dictator any day and save me from these voters.

  69. 73 DENNIS
    October 22, 2008 at 03:22

    Maybe they don’t want McCain to win after all?

    Dah! The media has pretty much predicted the
    outcome of the elections already…

    Dennis @ OCC 🙂

  70. 74 DENNIS
    October 22, 2008 at 03:28

    Remember Lockerbie:

    The suspect who was charged and convicted with the crime, has been diagnosed with cancer….


    [I have to write a full disclosure statement: That I am currently attending Community College here in Syracuse, New York, many people on that flight was attending Syracuse University]


  71. 75 Kelsie in Houston
    October 22, 2008 at 03:29

    It’s the principle: she has run on a platform of anti-corruption and anti-government spending. I think the electorate deserves an explanation if there are improprieties, such as thus: $21,012 for 76 flights taken by her daughters.

    Some have got nothing better to do with their political activities than focus on a politician least responsible for current fraud and global warming.

    It’s the issue of her platform–if she’s running on an anti-government spending platform, her record deserves scrutiny. No one’s assigning blame for larger fraud or global warming–she’s wanted us to take her on her record: let’s do that.

    Give me a benign dictator any day and save me from these voters.

    . 😀

  72. October 22, 2008 at 03:48

    You have to realise that John McCain was helping out Captain Kirk during the Cuba missile crisis!

  73. 77 Pangolin-California
    October 22, 2008 at 04:15

    You have to realise that John McCain was helping out Captain Kirk during the Cuba missile crisis!

    That explains only one plane crash. The one where John McCain got beamed back into the cockpit of his fighter. How do you explain the other four planes he wrecked?

  74. 78 Bob in Queensland
    October 22, 2008 at 04:18

    @ Pangolin

    Let’s just say nobody should ever park next to him at Walmart….

  75. October 22, 2008 at 05:17

    Pango –

    I believe one of them was looking to see if he could go below the power lines in Spain – the power lines won.

  76. 80 Pangolin-California
    October 22, 2008 at 07:44

    The power lines always win. We lost a great producer of music here in California, Bill Graham, to the power lines a long ways back. Power lines just hate them low-flying aircraft.

    As long as we are mentioning obscure space exploration themes The Big Lifters by Dean Ing details a combination maglev/scramjet booster an awful lot like Burt Rutan’s SpaceShipOne. The fictional operation included a very large lighter -than-air craft capable of acting as a large air freighter as well as a recovery vehicle for stray shuttlecraft.

    Life doesn’t just imitate fiction; it uses it as a blueprint.

  77. 81 Roberto
    October 22, 2008 at 11:31

    RE “” her record deserves scrutiny. “”

    ——— The only record that could ever pass scrutiny was the virgin birth and even that not believed by the unholier than thou.

    It’s a fact that Obama/Biden and McCain have more grevious transgressions, particulary the older fellas. Politics is a con game & majic show where the operators direct the audience attentions to carry out the sleight of hand.

    American voters have been poorly served by the past 16 yrs of presidential and congressional selections. One does not go from being the strongest, wealthiest, most highly regarded nation in the history of the world to become an indebted war mongering imperialist financed by 3rd world communist capital countries overnight without a massive scam being pulled.

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch, all the hands gathered cackling about troopergate, and kiddygate whilst the ranch is being sold off piecemeal for peanuts.

  78. October 22, 2008 at 12:32

    London, Washington Diverging Views!
    TEHRAN – British Defence Secretary John Hutton was in Iraq on Monday. He welcomed developments in the country and was full of hope that Baghdad would soon take control of operations across the whole country. This is a far cry from the US attitude to Iraq.
    There have been several reports that US Defense Secretary Robert Gates is pressuring Baghdad into signing a Security Pact with Washington. Iraqi government spokesman Ali al-Dabagh on Monday reverberated the same theme. Local tabloid in Tehran today also referred to the proposed accord as anti-Iran.
    Washington has constantly opposed Iranian, Syrian influence in Iraq, but Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maleki and his predecessor Ebrahim Jaffari are frequent visitors to Tehran and keen to consolidate ties between the two nations. Iraqi Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds have been shuttling back and forth between Tehran, Baghdad since the ouster of Saddam Hossein in 2003. Isn’t it natural to bolster ties with Iraq if it contributes to peace and prosperity! Why this insistence on the American side to get things over and done with before Tuesday November 4, 2008!

  79. 83 Zainab from Iraq
    October 22, 2008 at 13:06

    hi all these issues just to think about:

    -Racist marches in Acre demanding for killing Arabs.

    -Israel is burying nuclear waste in the Palestinian territories, near Ghaza.

  80. 84 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 13:36

    @Zainab from Iraq
    How can any rational person believe that Israel would bury nuclear waste in any Arab territory knowing full well that the Arabs would attach that nuclear waste to make a dirty bomb?
    Why after all should common sense prevail in any foolish charge against Jews?
    This is precisely why people look down on Arabs.
    Furthermore it was proven that an Arab trying to kill Jews on the Jews holiest day, Yom Kippur, with his car started what happened in Acre. He was arrested and released O.R. and immediately fled to an Arab country where he is hailed as a hero.
    The first casualty in any attack is TRUTH and happily your assertion has no legs.

  81. 85 Julie P
    October 22, 2008 at 13:52

    The Republican National Committee has spent more than $150,000 to clothe and accessorize vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin and her family since her surprise pick by John McCain in late August.


  82. October 22, 2008 at 13:56

    @ Space Exploration.
    Space expeditions by other countries will open new horizons and leads into the understanding of our universe.

  83. 87 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 14:01

    @Julie P
    …..and Hillary spent $150,000 on donuts.
    What difference does it make?

  84. October 22, 2008 at 14:01

    The Republican National Committee has spent more than $150,000 to clothe and accessorize vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin and her family since her surprise pick by John McCain in late August.

    “Medallion iced up, Rolex bezelled up
    And my pinky ring is platinum plus
    Earrings be trillion cut
    And my grill be slugged up
    Bling bling
    Everytime I come around yo city
    Bling bling
    Pinky ring worth about fifty
    Bling bling
    ” – BG, Bird Man, Lil Weezy

    Conservatives are ballin outta control!

  85. 89 Julie P
    October 22, 2008 at 14:33


    Read the article.

  86. 90 Dan
    October 22, 2008 at 14:51

    It is irrelevant. I want to understand their policies and programs of the candidates.
    If they spend on Palins clothes or on Hilliary’s donuts it matters not.
    Healthcare, Economy, Iraq, World Events, Jobs, America’s position in the world, Israel, Islamic Terror, Russia, Venezuela, Social Security,Medicare etc…etc… are important issues to me. I could not care less if Republicans want to spend/waste money from donors.
    Maybe I am missing something but I cannot understand why this is important.,

  87. 91 Julie P
    October 22, 2008 at 14:57


    First, try having a sense of humor. That’s how I read the article. Second, this is someone is running as an ethical person, yet she has been proven not be, so yes it is relevant; especially the way they are running their campaign.

  88. 92 Jennifer
    October 22, 2008 at 15:04

    @ Dan

    Don’t you know it’s Sarah Palin? All women are supposed to be enraged that a woman would be able to spend that much money on her clothing! We shouldn’t talk about how Michelle Obama dressed herself down for her DNC speech………haha It’s the way it goes!

    I wonder why they haven’t asked the Obama brand to donate some $$$ to our failing economy?

  89. 93 Julie P
    October 22, 2008 at 15:13

    Federal campaign finance law prohibits the use of campaign funds for personal use, but it defines personal use as any expense “that would exist irrespective of the candidate’s campaign or duties as a federal officeholder.”

  90. 94 Amy
    October 22, 2008 at 15:15


    Do you know if the DNC paid for Michelle Obama’s clothes? I think the point that Julie was making is that the RNC paid for the clothes and it didn’t come out of Sarah Palin’s pocket. And yes I am enraged that some women (and men) pay outrageous amounts of money on clothes when that money could be better spent. It isn’t just politicians but “celebrities” and others that think spending $300 on a pair of jeans is just fine. You can get a pair of Levi’s at Kohl’s on sale for $29.99. I’d be upset if it came out that the DNC paid for Mrs. Obama’s clothes too. Somehow though, I don’t think this is going to be the case. She wasn’t prancing around in Denver in Michael Kors’ gowns. She was wearing the same type of clothes she has the entire campaign. Some have even come from that very elitist store – the Gap.

  91. October 22, 2008 at 17:28

    OK that is enough FOX for the day. YOu don’t think they are bias, watch the other stations right now and watch FOX.

  92. October 22, 2008 at 18:03


    With regard to Obama’s parents dieing at an early age and the fact that Palin’s are still alive. One could infer that you’re rather happy at the prospect of a potential medical blip or banana skin befalling Obama in the near future. Yes, it’s all very well you passing it off as just an observation, but it’s not that difficult to read into it that you might not be much bothered by the prospect of him being struck down by something out of the blue. Why not be honest and nail your colours to the mast and say explicitly where your political sympathies lie in this election. Don’t faff around as you’re prone to do as far as I can see. If you’re going to abstain then be upfront about it. I’ll tell you right now that if I was American I’d vote for Obama with no hesitation. If I’m proved wrong for any reason, then so be it. At least I have the courage of my own convictions. Sarah Palin is a lose canon and as a VP let alone a President, a real danger to your country. Intuition tells me this, something people are loathe to trust these days.
    Ken Adelman in an interview with UK TV last night: The former adviser to Ronald Reagan – and renowned right-winger – has described Obama as a “wondrous man” and slated the Republican campaign.
    The 62-year-old told Channel 4 News: “This is not easy for me because I have never voted for a Democrat for president during my whole life; I have never even considered it; I have never even come close to it.
    “When I saw McCain in the first week of the economic meltdown I felt that he was bouncing off the walls. That’s not how a president should act during a crisis.
    “Obama tilted his position a bit, but it was a lot better than McCain.”
    Adelman said McCain’s choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate was doomed.
    He said: “All McCain’s talk about going for experience was blown out of the water when Palin was appointed.
    “He [McCain] didn’t put country first, he didn’t value experience. If experience counts, he didn’t make it count in his judgement.”
    “A lot of people said Ronald Reagan didn’t know issues that well, but he spent much of his adult life doing columns and radio interviews – he cared about issues. He was serious in that sense. You don’t have any of that with Sarah Palin.”
    Adelman said he was not concerned about Obama’s military credentials.
    He said: “I don’t consider Obama to be a peacenik; number one he will immediately restore some of the lost American prestige overseas, it has killed me in recent years to hear that people in Britain and Europe think poorly of the United States. We are a much better country now than our ratings suggest.
    “There is a lot of anti-Americanism that will be evaporated when we have Obama as the face of America. Number two – when he speaks – I just don’t see a pacifistic commander in chief.
    “John McCain just wasn’t the right person for the time. I think he [Obama] is a wondrous person.” Go ahead and debunk him now!

    I notice re. Dwight from Cleveland’s post, Oct 21st, 11.13pm re. Talking Points, you haven’t countered with any response. Unlike you once again. But as far as I can tell you haven’t come back at me at all with regard to 5 postings that I sent in response to your simplistic dismissal of my arguments on certain debates. Yours is a stance that comes across as the all seeing and knowing Roberto, added with your vast and unlimited general and more importantly geographical knowledge to boot. Well now you’ve got a 6th to respond to, if you can possibly bring yourself and in fact deign to do so. Please check on Talking Points Oct 7th, 8.44pm, Are Modern Wars Unwinnable? Oct 8th 4.13, 4.15am, Talking Points Oct 8th, 2.57pm & On Air An open programme on the financial crisis (Oct 10th) Oct 11th, 9.25am
    I wait with bated breath!

  93. 97 HARRISON
    October 22, 2008 at 19:16

    I think the space exploration right now with these financial crisis is irrelevant. We need funds to solve world problems like the credit cruche, getting food to the deprived areas of the world and more especailly for God seek the are millions of people in India who are living below two dollars a day

  94. 98 Roberto
    October 22, 2008 at 19:40

    RE “” One could infer that you’re rather happy at the prospect of a potential medical blip or banana skin befalling Obama in the near future. “”

    ——– I could infer that you’ve eaten too many bananas today, but I won’t.

    Voters will vote their prejudices, for or against Obama because he’s black, for or against McCain because he’s older.

    If I was a betting man, I’d bet on Palin outlivin’ the bunch by a substantial margin. Moreover, Obama may have advantage of youth, but he is a chain smoker from a shortlived family, so whatever age advantage he has is negated by his family history and habits.

    Get an actuary to simplify it for you matty.

  95. October 23, 2008 at 11:59

    Matthew October 23, 2008 at 10:53 am

    I could resort to calling you Robertty or Roberta. But I won’t stoop to your level, because quite frankly I don’t see the point in it. What makes you presume upon yourself that it’s OK to respond to me in a derogatory way of some kind, I don’t know. You quite obviously do get some sort of inexplicable kick out of repeating this in relation to me. But you don’t just reserve this for me I’ve noticed. You’re condescending to most people who make contributions on the blog. Your imperious manner is one that belongs to the intransigency of certain politicians and dubious businessman. Did you miss the boat somewhere along those lines, and are trying to make up for it now?
    It displays a certain contempt on your behalf which you seem incapable of keeping to yourself about others who seriously try and challenge your “dyed in the wool” opinions. And whether they succeed you don’t have the humility to converse at a certain level. Does your conceit know no bounds? Sorry, I should say your overwhelming powers of intellect and intelligence that can so easily diminish and dissipate all examples of other’s commentary, with some cursory quip at their expense. You’ve picked up on one point and one point only re. my post, just maybe because that’s all you could respond to. I highlighted die hard Republican, Ken Adelman, going over to the Democrats for the first time as interviewed on UK TV. I’d love to see the FOX News version, if indeed there was one at all.
    It still appears that you haven’t responded to Dwight’s post re. McCain. Just wondering why that might be? When I’m challenged upon that which I post, I always respond to either accept the counter point being made at the time, or if I think I can, I will come back at them. You’ve failed to do that with those posts I’ve brought to your attention once more, this now being the third occasion.
    Surely, a man of your stature and character can do much better than that!

  96. October 23, 2008 at 12:41

    Dwight in Cleveland,

    Right on! Fox News has an exact equivalent in the UK, called Sky News, both organisations being owned by Rupert Murdoch. And is it just a coincidence that both stations adopt the exact same editorial policy? I think not. But what could be easier than duping a considerable audience in the US, UK, Canada, Europe, Asia, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, South America, (not much else left of the world is there) as to what they want you to believe is happening in the world, particularly with regard to Iraq and Afghanistan. So many people except these version of events day in day out, without bothering to ask any questions as to the true nature of their main news gathering and information services. I can speak to many people here in the UK who say did you see on Sky the other day about Baghdad, Fallujah, Kabul, the Helmand Province etc,etc, and all our brave boys (soldiers) doing their bit in the face of the enemy. I always say take what they report with a pinch of salt. Sometimes they look at me in amazement and call me a leftie or similar. In practically every case they accept what the media hands them on a plate.
    Murdoch owns 20th Century Fox Film, all associated Fox corporations, The Wall Street Journal as well as European and Asian editions of the Journal, New York Post, Dow Jones News Wires, Marketwatch.com, and surprisingly My Space.com. The largest circulating tabloid in the UK, The Sun and sister paper News of the World, The Times and Sunday Times, a major share and influence upon the UK press, are also his.
    All 175 MURDOCH-OWNED NEWSPAPERS EDITORIALISED IN FAVOUR OF THE IRAQ WAR! He owns Star TV a major influence throughout the Asian continent, as well as Phoenix TV, one of the most popular and profitable channels in China and with Chinese around the world. Too much me thinks. Cont’d.

  97. October 23, 2008 at 12:42

    Dwight in Cleveland,

    He has his feelers in every aspect of world news, media and entertainment, whereby he wields massive influence upon the way millions of people receive and interpret the news on a daily basis, and for that matter how they are saturated with entertainment channels to immerse their minds in and concentrate their attention upon, to an enormous extent. He despises the BBC and would have no hesitation in shutting it down or alternatively take it over and put his own slant on it. How bloody convenient that would be! A certain area of opposition to his one world view would be wiped out without a second thought!
    I’m a considerable critic of the BBC in the way it reports some of its news and have some justification in being so, for when having had the opportunity to examine several aspects of the other side of the coin when in a particular country they’re reporting from, and I view the slant they’ve put on it which I catch up on upon my return. This I find worrying to a certain extent. But give me the BBC and what it is capable of any day of the week in opposition to the media fodder thrust at us via all directions from Murdoch media. His is an agenda which we should all be very wary of, indeed deeply concerned. He is a businessman end of story, and an entrepreneur who knows no bounds when it comes to trying to swallow up all areas of media in his own self-interests, and create a global monopoly of gargantuan media excess and a sphere of influence and control never before seen. And he is passing on the mantle to his sons and daughters who are neatly enmeshed within News Corp as is his current wife.
    I watched an interview on the BBC some years ago with Murdoch, where he freely expressed the view that he didn’t see much point in earthquakes, human disaster areas and the like, being reported beyond their internal news agencies and to their own people.
    The interviewer couldn’t quite believe what he was hearing, nor could this viewer what he was watching. He didn’t really see the point in bothering us with it because it was unpleasant to see and better for people to watch something they enjoy and makes them happy. What a nice and caring guy he is. Don’t you just want to take him home to meet the family! I’m not sure he has moderated those views much, because he rarely gives interviews, deliberately keeping a low profile, but seems to have joined in challenging the other networks news reporting through all News Corp businesses. Prime example – FOX NEWS! By the way it is very difficult to find a copy of that interview. Why I don’t know. When I get hold of a copy I’ll post the link, if I find it that is.

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