06
Oct
08

On air: Are women their own worst enemies?

She saw it on a Starbucks cup, and said it at a rally in California. Sarah Palin told a gathered crowd, ‘There’s a place in Hell reserved for women who don’t support other women.’ Now there are 100s of blog posts and news stories about it, and the issues it raises. This fits with discussions we’re been following in many different countries.

But do women have an obligation to support other women? Is their such thing as a sisterhood?

And there are fierce debates the world over about whether some women reinforce the main obstacles to the improvement of women’s lives. Abortion, business, education, body image, wearing a head-scarf, being allowed to drive and so on.

Tanzania: teenage girls disagree over whether leaving school, getting married and having kids is the right thing to do, or is reinforcing a patriarchal society.

Native Americans in New Mexico: Only men can be leaders. Respect for tradition say some women, an attack on women’s rights say others.

America: one woman’s support for a ban on abortion, is another’s attack on women.

UK: New research shows that the number of women having plastic surgery on their genitals is going up rapidly. Taking authority of their own bodies say some, another example of women maintaining to live under unrealistic male expectations is the reply.

Pakistan: Islamic traditions are the correct way to live argue some women, others respond that they prevent stop women getting equality.

Time magazine on women’s feelings towards Palin

BBC’s Peter Day on equality in the workplace


238 Responses to “On air: Are women their own worst enemies?”


  1. October 6, 2008 at 14:53

    Yes I think so. In Nepal we are experiencing it in all sectors from home to office, from village to town and uneducated people to educated people. Really this worse thinking is still deeply rooted on minds of every women and men.

  2. 2 jesse
    October 6, 2008 at 14:59

    yes Ros!basically almost everything about women are delicate to handle.religion,history and science proves that overtime,it,s either women are used or being used,it’s just up to a very few of them who would want to assume the role of the head.but so far none,Sarah palin is just being used by the republicans as a replacement for Hilary to get the vote women who felt Hilary have been mistreated by the democrats.attacks from men to women is only normal but woman to woman is self inflicting injury,and that would not stop it’s only normal.

  3. 3 Meg in Canada
    October 6, 2008 at 15:09

    I think this question is worded strangely “Are women their own worst enemies?”. In what way? In the sense that there isn’t a universal agreement on issues like abortion, body image, etc? I don’t think so. Sarah Palin’s comment about “a place in Hell” is a little ridiculous, I think. If you take that statement on its own, all people – male or female can support whoever they choose for whatever reasons they have, regardless of gender. In countries where women are more or less treated equally to men (USA, Canada, UK for example), I see nothing wrong with a woman making the personal choice to stay home to be with her children, get an abortion, or have plastic surgery.

  4. 4 Benn
    October 6, 2008 at 15:11

    It seems that with most freedoms (across the board) there is a catch-22 at play. What one person thinks is right is considered an attack by another; you mention abortion, one women (or person) thinks banning it is an attack on their rights. I could make the same type of statement on gun ownership, driving restrictions, or countless others.

    Unfortunately for women it seems that most of their fights stem from a rebelling against traditionalism. In that fight there will always be the “stay-at-home wife (I love the 1950’s)” group against the “everything now (I want choice and opportunity)” group.

    Benn
    Oregon USA

  5. 5 Katharina in Ghent
    October 6, 2008 at 15:11

    About five years ago, when I still lived in Toronto, I used to watch the first season of the show “The Apprentice”. For those of you who may not know this show, I’ll quickly outline it: You have 8 male and 8 female candidates who contest to become a Vice President or something like that in one of Donald Trump’s companies and each weak one of them gets fired, until only one is left. In the beginning, the eight men were in one group and the eight women were in the other. For four weeks straight, the women won every single task, so that only four men were left in their group. To shake things up, Donald Trump reorganized the groups to 4 women and 2 men each, and all of a sudden the women didn’t work together anymore within their group but started sabotaging each others work so that for the next eight weeks the women were fired one after the other. I found it very fascinating to watch how these smart women, who were doing so well originally, would get into these fights once there were men in their groups. It would be interesting to figure out the psychology behind this.

    As far as Sarah Palin is concerned, she stands for pretty much everything that I oppose, so even if I were American, I would never vote for her. On the other hand, I would have preferred Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama because I think that she had more defined plans on what she wanted to achieve once she were in power.

    I find it a bit appalling to assume that just because you put a woman up for election, all women automatically have to vote for her out of gender loyalty. There’s still the question of whether the candidate stands for the same things as I do, and if the answer is “not”, then he or she will not get my support, no matter what.

  6. 6 Frank in America
    October 6, 2008 at 15:23

    My experience is limited to American women. However, I have observed that there is some system of denial that prevents many of the women that I know from recognizing a guy who is going to be completely destructive to them. It should not take more than a half hour of conversation with a guy to figure out that he is all about himself and wont put up with any focus of attention other than himself. This is an infantile mentality and leads to some very bad out comes for the people involved with this kind of personality.

    The measure of real love is loving some one more than I love my self, to be willing think of your partner before you think of yourself. It is more of a Biblical standard than just a general standard.

    Frank Drago

  7. 7 Jennifer in New York
    October 6, 2008 at 15:40

    There is absolutely something called a sisterhood, and if Palin were having troubles, and was my friend, I would assist her in any way I could. I would support her the same way I support ANY woman in need. However, she is not in need. She has a roof over her head, and money in the bank, I’m pretty sure her husband doesn’t beat her, as far as I can tell she is not a woman in need. She is asking for me to support her run for the vice-presidency. I will not do so. I will not do so because I do not feel her, or her running mate to be the best people for the job. As a woman of voting age in this country, it is my right to vote for the person or persons I feel represents my beliefs. I would be doing a great disservice to the “sisterhood” if I voted any other way than for the best person to fill the position. It is not a woman thing. It is an American thing.

  8. 8 Steve
    October 6, 2008 at 15:43

    @ Frank

    Perhaps they want the drama that you describe in the situations. That’s pretty common.

  9. 9 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 15:46

    I think perhaps in third world nations there probably would be more of a sense of sisterhood. But in the west, women are very catty and competitive with each other, so much so that I don’t think many women under the age of 35 actually have any real friends of the same sex, becuase they are too busy competing with each other re: jobs, men, clothes, etc. I don’t view my friends as a source of competition, and can maintain a friendship for decades.

  10. October 6, 2008 at 15:50

    Women would always find themselves between a rock and a hard place on certain issues because of societal expectations and certain prejudices. Not living up to these expectations or trying fight these prejudices often put women in a tight spot especially when women differ on issues that they are supposedly to be united about. That makes it easy suggest that they are the own worst enemies which is not necessarily true.

  11. October 6, 2008 at 15:55

    @ Steve, … But in the west, women are very catty … please could you shed some light on that? 😕

  12. October 6, 2008 at 15:56

    Hi WHYSers!

    Sarah Palin appears to be out of her depth on this one and should be properly dragged over the coals for trying to suggest that there is a universal woman of which she is the ultimate embodiment. Talk about an ego trip! She needs to get with the programme and infom herself about what women’s issues are and, indeed, feminism. To suggest that all women should support each other on questions of abortions, body image, etc. is to miss the larger, much more complex point that all women do not come from the same place on these concerns. Will, rightly, asked in a previous post what are Palin’s views on some of these thorny issues, for which an answer needs to be given. At that time, we can all decide whether Palin is the ‘ultimate female candidate’ or just another politician with a questionable set of positions that must be rigourously interogated.

  13. October 6, 2008 at 15:56

    But do women have an obligation to support other women?

    Oh please, reverse that the other way around, any blatant support of men for men when women are involved also is thought of as completely sexist.
    No, women should not have an obligation to support other women solely due to being of the same sex. It’s just as bad as men supporting men for that reason; Or whites supporting whites or blacks supporting blacks for that matter.

    Palin is an ignorant individual and is using sexist remarks as a call for voter support. This is nothing new though, if anyone remembers she called on Hillary supporters to vote for her with the cracks in the glass ceiling analogy.

  14. October 6, 2008 at 15:58

    On America though with the abortion topic, its always interesting and sometimes amusing to watch women go at it (seeing as how men are generally ‘banned’ from this discussion because it has “nothing to do” with them).

  15. October 6, 2008 at 16:03

    @ Jennifer in New York,

    Well put!!!! Very well said!!! The sheer nerve of these political types arrogating unto themselves the position that, because they are public figures and politicians, no less, they are the ultimate definition of a consciousness! This remark is so absolutely insulting, I do hope that the backlash catches her in time for November 4. What is this? Because she is a woman she is a Feminist and, therefore, deserving of that support; that is, if one equates a sort of natural (?) Feminism as an implicit (?) outgrowth of the idea of a sisterhood! This woman is the best! And, by that I mean, worst! LOL! She really does need an education on several things it appears, not just which newspaper(s) she reads and formulates political opinions!

  16. 16 Gary
    October 6, 2008 at 16:08

    The sexes are complimentary. If the answer to your question is “yes” for women in the instance of a particular behavior; it will be “no” for men with regards to the same behavior. The answers will reverse for some other kind of behavior. Neat, isn’t it. Of course, as any husband soon learns, pointing-out instances of wifely silly, self-defeating behavior is itself a kind of silly self-defeating behavior.
    Gary

  17. 17 Dan
    October 6, 2008 at 16:08

    When I look at how women refuse to support one another I think the answer is obvious. Today in Saudi Arabia Muslim women must not leave both eyes uncovered when they leave their houses. Not one woman or group of women has arisen to protest this medieval ruling. As long as women behave in this fashion they will continue to be exploited.

  18. 18 Jonathan
    October 6, 2008 at 16:15

    There’s a place in Hell for candidates who glean their wisdom from coffee cups, and who appeal to primitive, irrational tribal loyalties because they lack the depth to discuss genuine issues and lack the wit to fake it.

    Jonathan
    San Francisco

  19. 19 Moses Magoola
    October 6, 2008 at 16:27

    I suppose Palin is losing focus with what she says. She has made impetuous comments time and time again harming the Republican cause, how dare she utter such a comment and yet we all know that women can rationalize issues in a sober way with any gender biases like Palin dose such as Ugandan women who overwhelmingly power out their support to President Museveni. This happens in other contexts apart from the Ugandan alone but precisely Palin deserves to be advised on calculating words, otherwise she contributing alot to the sinking boat

    Moses

    Kampala- Uganda

  20. October 6, 2008 at 16:28

    @ Dan,

    First off, what you have said is not true in relation to whether women have protested these practises in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. Numerous instances of women in America and elsewhere have protested these conditions under which some Islamic women live, especially in places like Afghanistan. Here is one example, not so much in Saudi Arabia but relatable all the same: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1666139.stm

    That being said, I disagree that there needs to be a protest against cultural differences between women simply on that premise. If, however, these protests are about empowering women and forwarding a women’s agenda by way of it, then, by all means let us protest women’s clothing in that regard. However, bear in mind that for as many people who disagree with wearing the burqa/ hijab, etc. in Islamic countries, there are just as many in these places who protest the comparably skimpy clothing of women worn in other cultures.

  21. October 6, 2008 at 16:30

    @ Jonathan!

    VERY WELL SAID!! Could not agree more!! Palin is the worst!

  22. 22 Whitney from Michigan
    October 6, 2008 at 16:37

    The problem that I have with this issue and in fact any issue regarding the rights of a particular group of people is this. We are all people. We all have quirks and opinions. Often times when we try to defend those opinions we try to use some small group that we belong to as a defense mechanism. Now I know that it is impossible to forget those things which make us a part of that group. I’m just suggesting that making them an excuse defeats the purpose and continues the stereotypes that so many seem to believe. I’m very saddened to hear Steve say the things that he said. Most likely he has had personal experiance with women like that, but remember what stereotypes are. They are generalizations. Unfortunately our society in America glorifies those stereotypes so they are becoming more and more common. I’m a college flute player and I get along with the girls in my studio hows that for putting a stereotype on it’s head. That’s because I made a pact with myself that I would get to know those people and make sure that they knew eachother and because of this we get along. Giving credence to stereotypes simply allows for them to continue. We should challenge the things that we feel are wrong because it allows us to be happy about ourselves. So what if others feel differently. As human beings it’s simply a fact of life. It’s how you handle those people with different opinions that matters and ultimately reflects poorly or well on your person.

  23. October 6, 2008 at 16:37

    Women are practically their own enemies. They ask for equality, but at the same time they refute having a woman at the top to control them. Maybe inside they keep attracted to male power from which they get the pleasure of dominating and being dominated.

    The fact that women in democratic societies make half of the population and yet key elected posts are held by men has significance. If Hilary wasn’t the wife of Clinton, but supposedly his brother, she could have had a chance to be the Democrat presidential candidate instead of Obama. In view of racism and sexism still prevalent in the USA, some had to choose the lesser “evil” by voting for a black candidate instead of a female one.

    Maybe women aspire for admiration and comfortable life, leaving the stress of administration and hard work to men when it comes to decisive action. Women can be educated into believing there must be equality between men and women , but their feminine side itches them to enjoy life and not to have enduring headaches to take decisions. AS such, they don’t seek other women to decide for hem, but men with all prowess and virility that entails.

    These are just mere thoughts which can be refuted by some women who think otherwise.

  24. 24 John in Salem
    October 6, 2008 at 16:38

    The fact that Sarah Palin believes there is a Hell and that she is somehow privy to it’s distinctions and qualifications tells me everything I need to know about her grasp on reality.
    I don’t know about women in general but she is most definitely HER own worst enemy.

  25. 25 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 16:45

    @ John

    All the candidates talk about god, and faith. they are either (1) lying or (2) delusional

    Which one is it? Palin is not the only one who does this.

  26. October 6, 2008 at 16:46

    93% of what we say is emotions based. My mouth opens and the receiver receices the communication based on his or her own emotional belief system. The receiver hears the 7% words and the rest in emotion and then reacts based on past experience, feelings, biases, emotions. People seem to get so insane and immature about what people say . . . why? was it really the words or is it the emotions? Do you really hate her or did the emotions rub you the wrong way.

    It is also true that Women are often more emotions based . . . in this case I think about it this way . . . she said what she said because: 1. she is a candidate and wants to elicit and reaction with women so she uses emotional triggers. 2. she is a women others to agree with her and possibly especially women — why wouldn’t she? 3. She feels that way. Maybe her experience suggests that women stick together . . . maybe she has been lucky enough not to be stabbed in the back by another female person. Perhaps those of you who react, react because of emotional programming. Hey I don’t know everything, I just know that it would be a nicer world if women or any of us stuck together. Unity would be a great thing. I have worked with women in business for the last 7 years and lack of unity is not gender specific. She will say what she will say and you will react how you will react. That exchange does not make either the sender nor the receiver a bad person, just a person communicating 93% emotions. (See Dr. Skinner http://www.myexpertsolution.com for study)

  27. 27 Nikitas
    October 6, 2008 at 16:48

    Let me preface this by saying that I am an advocate for women’s rights.
    However, any Woman who supports Sarah Palin has the IQ of a Playboy bunny!
    The Republicans are really scraping the bottom of the barrel with less than a month left to go. Barack is a terrorist apparently and any woman who doesn’t support Sarah Palin is committing a disservice to her own kind. Come on!

  28. 28 Luz Ma from Mexico
    October 6, 2008 at 16:49

    I don´t believe in the idea that women should automatically support/help/be friends/etc other women because we share the same gender. I don´t believe in the “sisterhood” (in fact I think it only alienate us from men.) I believe in equality and for me that means taking aside gender, race, age, religion, beliefs, etc. an only look at the PERSON when I judge someone.

    I have good male and female friends. I don´t get along with every women on earth, but neither every men.

    I don´t like Palin because I don´t like her beliefs and what she stands for. But if she was a man, I would feel the same.

  29. 29 Nikitas
    October 6, 2008 at 16:50

    Her answer to which newspapers she reads should have been, ‘I exclusively read the side of Starbucks Coffee cups.’ It would have been better than no answer at all :p

  30. 30 Angela in Washington
    October 6, 2008 at 16:52

    Women are not their own worst enemies. However, every woman, just like every man, is not the same and don’t have the same views. I am very pro-choice but I respect someone else’s views, as long as they don’t change the law. I am a woman that doesn’t care about a man’s feelings on abortion. I only care about what a woman thinks. And there is no way I will ever change my opinion on that, unless the person is married.

    There are some women that are very catty, just like their are some men that are very catty. I have worked at places where the men were more two faced than the men.

    Additionally concerning voting for a female, I don’t care if it is a man or a woman. I care about their views on different issues. I am not just going to support someone because they are the same race or the same sex, as me.

  31. 31 Lydia
    October 6, 2008 at 16:54

    Sarah Palin is one of modern women’s worst enemies. Not voting for her ticket to win this election is as supportive as I can imagine being to American womankind. I believe supporting women on the grander scale means not allowing Governor Palin to become Vice President Palin at this point in history. She’s primed to bring back coat-hanger, back-alley abortions, to return young girls to astonishing levels of ignorance about their bodies and their health, and to return women’s rights and autonomy to the dark ages. Supporting women does not mean supporting every female who stands for office, or agreeing with every utterance from someone with a uterus. This woman is the ultimate contradiction in terms, with a national stage to stand on and demonstrate her destructive capabilities. She should heed her own notion: being anti-choice as she clearly is, being against same-gender marriage as she adamantly is, she’s being hugely unsupportive of women in the US.

    Lydia Nayo
    Oakland, CA.

  32. 32 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 16:55

    @ Angela

    What would you say if a man held a view that he only cares what men thinks about the right to vote, and that he doesn’t care about a woman’s feelings on voting? remember, there’s nothing explicit in the constitution about abortion, but there is about voting. Let’s assume away the right to vote for women for a second.

    If you don’t care about a man’s feelings on a particular issue, why should a man care about your feelings on child support, “equal pay for equal work” etc?

  33. October 6, 2008 at 16:59

    @ John in Salem,

    Very well said!

    @ Abdelilah Boukili,

    I am not so sure I agree with some of what you said. Perhaps you can clarify if I misunderstood. From what I read it appears thre is something missing from the point you made about women in democratic societies and the fact that men hold most of the key political positions.

    There is a historical gap between women in leadership and education and men both in the Orient and the Occident worlds. That has real meaning in terms of how this issue is viewed. The social and political realtions of power between the genders as well as the races have been historically lopsided, as a result.

    The Women’s Movement and the Civil Rights Movement in the case of blacks in America, and possibly elsewhere, has only recently come of age. There are many, many rivers to cross as Regge artiste Jimmy Cliff says, before we will get to place where the idea of women as leaders of society, at the highest levels of public and political institutions is considered ‘natural’. That being said, women like Sarah Palin undo alot of the gains of these two Movements, simultaneously, by suggeseting that all women/ people are alike and that because she is a woman politician she must/ should get the ‘woman vote’, such as it is, without doing any other kind of work to win it. Her politics seem to suggest nothing about empowering women at all. Just vote Palin/ McCain if you are a woman! You cannot get more outrageous than this! You just can’t! Can you?

  34. October 6, 2008 at 17:13

    This is a bad question really. Who thinks of these things? Humans are their own worst enemies. We are self-destructive by nature. There are subtle variations of the means of this self destruction between the sexes. Just as there are between the races and the nationality. But we are all hell bent on destroying ourselves. So the answer is yes, and no.

  35. 35 John in Salem
    October 6, 2008 at 17:17

    Steve~
    All are delusional to some degree, but at least Obama isn’t claiming to have any inside knowledge that I’m aware of.

  36. 36 Philippa
    October 6, 2008 at 17:18

    Palin is like a creature out of MAD Magazine. For the rest I’m not very interested in male-female discussions and will definitely skip this show.

    Maybe you could focus one day on what unites male and female, young and old, poor and rich, black and white, etc, rather on what divides us?

  37. 37 Shaun in Halifax
    October 6, 2008 at 17:19

    @ Katharina

    That’s such an interesting phenomenon you’ve observed. I’ve noticed that the exact same things happen to a group of men. I’m a brother of a fraternity, so I have observed this more than once: a group of guys will be hanging out. There’s camaraderie, joking, b-s-ing, a little drinking, good fellowship etc etc. When a woman enters the picture, the entire group dynamic changes. Suddenly she’s a ‘prize’ and like 95% of the men in the room are competing for her attention and affection. I think it’s dumb and is a result of the men following their other brain. I’ve always wondered if a similar thing happens to a group of women when a man enters the picture.

    @ Today’s Topic

    While this should go without saying, I have to caution the people on today’s show to stay away from the rapist’s rationalization: “she had on a tight skirt/low-cut shirt/clingy burka. If she didn’t want it happening, she wouldn’t have dressed like that.” If women ARE their own worst enemy, it’s because the ideals of the earliest suffragists and feminists have been corrupted. For some reason, young women view shaking their naughty bits in bars and acting whorish like Pussycat Dolls as “being empowered.” How did that happen?

  38. October 6, 2008 at 17:26

    @ rawpolitics,
    The point I’d like to make is that capable women are still fighting not to just convince men but also women of their capabilities. In an election, generally, men have the strongest chance to win an election against a women because the male voters prefer a man to represent them because of say their sexism. These male voters are joined by female voters who still find a woman still incapable for hard tasks.

    I don’t mean women can’t be at the top of a position in their own rights but it is the macho world in which they live coupled with the lack of solidarity from other women that makes it difficult for them to have senior positions.

    Palin is an example of the dilemma women have regarding women power. Should she be supported on the basis of her principles or should she be given encouragement to initiate a new page in the history of the US by having the first female VP.

    Women still need more unity among themselves to form a bloc to put an end to male monopoly. This comes with strategy and not with emotional appeals as Sarah Palin seems to convey to some voters.

  39. 39 Kelsie in Houston
    October 6, 2008 at 17:34

    Has anyone heard the recent (current) BBC Business Daily program on the state of sexual harassment in Russia? Despite some polls indicating that 100% of women in Russia claim to have endured sexual harassment at work, only two cases brought to court have ended with a judgment in favor of the woman. A recent Russian ruling also claimed that “sexual harassment is good.”

    How does this compare with the experiences of women around the world? Is sexual harassment something that is acted upon and handled efficiently, or is it too often simply shoved away or ignored?

  40. 40 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 17:35

    @ Shaun

    Because it’s power to them. They get attention from doing that, and get the things they want. Imagine being able to shake your “naughty bits” in a bar and get endless free drinks and free meals. I’ve known women that haven’t paid for food in probably ages due to dating for meals. I guess that’s somehow “empowering” to them, but that’s not any kind of empowerment I would ever want. I think the main thing is what for many women, life is about having fun, whereas in general more men realize they have to make sacrifices. I can’t go out partying all the time because it’s irresponsible, but I also don’t have the luxury on expecting on someone to provide for me, so I have to make wiser choices, knowing I only can rely on myself. Sure, many women are self reliant, but many women aren’t, and rely on men to provide for them or bail them out. you should really look at finances these days. It’s scary stuff how irresponsible many women (and men) are with their finances.

    I used to date some chick, and I noticed it bizarre that she had no credit cards in her wallet thing. I thought, wow, she must be very financially responsible. I later figured out she had horrible credit due to being so financially irresponsible that she simply couldn’t get any credit cards due to her credit.

    Re: Palin, that comment was as disgusting as if Obama had said “blacks should vote for me”, which he would never do, but Obama is getting 90%+ of the black vote, and I’m pretty sure it’s because he’s black. But nobody said it, but Palin was wrong to say that. But you know why she did it, mccain is getting far behind in the polls due to the tanking economy.

  41. 41 Christine in New Jersey
    October 6, 2008 at 17:36

    Sarah Palin is not speaking for me, as a woman. She speaks for herself as a VP candidate that is making every lame attempt to grab headlines by accusing Obama of “palling around with terrorists” one minute, and quoting Starbuck’s cups the next! If her accusations of Obama’s association with the reverend Wright are fairgame, then she should prepare a response as to why she was involved in ceremony to protect her from witchcraft at a pentecostal church where she was a memeber. She has been ill-prepared for the role of VP, but well prepared to peddle “gotcha” headlines (you betcha! Joe Six-pack!) it doesn’t come off as intelligent or informed as to the plight of “Main St. USA”, instead, it comes off as condescending and bullying. I applaud women aspiring and working toward powerful positions, but not if it paints the “sisterhood” with an ignorant brush. Ms. Palin should try speaking to any woman in a battered women’s shelter, or any woman who has endured the Hell of Rape/incest/abuse, and get to the heart of women’s issues without the gloss of religion to pad her responses.

  42. 42 Whitney in Michgan
    October 6, 2008 at 17:36

    @ Nikitas

    This is the opening statement that you made

    “Let me preface this by saying that I am an advocate for women’s rights.
    However, any Woman who supports Sarah Palin has the IQ of a Playboy bunny!”

    Is this not a contradiction? From the sounds of it you think that you are above these other women who you claim to advocate. I sincerly doubt all of these women as unintelligent as you give them credit for. Case in point The Girls Next Door. Two of three of those women are college educated. Holly Madsen only began working at hooters and doing beauty competitions to put herself through college. Bridget Marquardt has her masters in broadcasting and communications from UCLA. These don’t seem like unintelligent women to me. It seems perhaps that you are mistakenly lumping their life choices together with their actual intelligence. There are lots of truly genius level people out there with very little in the way of personal skills and no one looks down on them. If you do not agree with their life choices that is one thing but as a womens advocate you have told the world that it is your lifes goal to defend ALL women. Not just the ones that you look to as equals.

  43. 43 Ann in Cincinnati
    October 6, 2008 at 17:38

    Women (and men), I believe, are obligated to support the advancement of women to the extent that we are all obligated to support equal rights for all humanity, whether in terms of sex, race, economic or social status. These rights, however, entail free thought and speech, which means that I, an American woman, am in no way obligated to support a political candidate just because she is a woman. I had mixed feelings about Sen. McCain before, but once Gov. Palin was added to the ticket my opinion was confirmed – her inexperience and naivete frighten me and I disagree with her on almost all national issues. I would dearly love to see a woman as President or Vice President, but that doesn’t mean just any woman.

  44. October 6, 2008 at 17:41

    Palin is her own worst enemy. She makes no effort to think about what she says before she speaks. She really needs to check herself before she starts talking in public. That she even feels this is a matter on which to joke, in terms of how the media will characterise her statements, suggests how lightly she treats the matter of her pronouncements. She seems to be suffering from a classic case of ‘Foot in Mouth Disease’!…I hope she gets it that she is vying for a very important job for which her utterances increasingly mark her as unprepared and uninformed. Hopefully, more American voters get this!

  45. 45 Kaidala Danappiah
    October 6, 2008 at 17:41

    Kyunki Sans bhi kabhi bahu Thee (LITERALLY, Because, a mother law was once a daughter in law) is the name of a Hindi TV soap running ‘for-ever’ in India.
    I don’t watch it, however, I agree with what the oneliner says to a great extent. We see a predominant, often distorted reltionship between two women in their prime in India.

    In a paternilistic society, a woman remains a foreign ‘entity’ after marriage in her in-laws’ house. I prefer the word entity to person because the latter loses meaning when it comes to a typical mother-in-law and Daughter-in-law relationship.

    A woman becomes the worst enemy of another woman when she treats her like a man. I think, many women think that they are the only ‘woman’ on the planet and deserve all the gentleness around them. This leads to trouble and most often the victim will be another woman.
    You see, men do not bother much about one up-woman-ship!!

  46. October 6, 2008 at 17:55

    The matter is that in this case Palin is speaking to an empty crowd. As there isn’t such a thing as Hell – why would anyone believe her, unless of course, they are of the same religion/faith/denomination as her.

    The comparisons are very large that she makes, and far too complex to really understand. A few would be: Muslim women follow only Muslim women to exclude Muslim men, Christian women of one denomination following only what that denomination says and not another. Black Women because they are black but cannot be Christian or Muslim or Hindu etc, following other Black women, white women who can follow those like Palin as long as Palin is the woman to follow but cannot be questioned because she said this first in a public forum.

    It becomes ridiculous very fast.

    As to the question: Women can be their own worst enemy as can men – but it is a matter of the choice they make. ‘Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants’ was a film – not an instruction manual.

  47. 47 Anthony
    October 6, 2008 at 18:00

    If you have ever worked in a professional enviornment, you’ll have to agree yes. They, and unopened pickle jars are women worse enemies.

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  48. October 6, 2008 at 18:01

    @ Abdelilah,

    I agree with you in terms of Palin’s emotionalism as well as what appears to be the lack of solidarity between women. However, I feel it important to highlight that as Ann in Cincinati has pointed out, women’s issues (whatever these are!) are people issues. Which would, necessarilly, mean that the question of a gendered solidarity has significance only (?) to the extent that all agreed about a sort of ‘gendered consciousness’ which resonates with and or supercedes important concerns. In that regard, I support women’s rights/ issues and concerns. However, I am never sure that gender solidarity necessarilly means that all women and all men share certain uniquely gendered positions that are somehow mutually exclusive. That argument implies that all women and all men are the same and that there is a fundamental distinction between either group which cannot at all be understood by the other. From where I sit, this is neither true nor accurate.

    Men vote for men, I think, in part because they were primarily the only candidates who made themselves available for whatever reasons, historically. That women have come into these races problematises the issue to the extent that it throws up new concerns, never previously considered such as those above.

    Women could perhaps show more support for each other (whatever that means!), however, that would mean that there is agreement as to what we mean by the term ‘woman’ other than the question of biology. That is the part that seems up in the air and, hence, why I am not sure whether this question does any real justice in terms of enlightening us on these matters. It is, however, safe to say that Palin is her own worst enemies, by degrees!

  49. October 6, 2008 at 18:02

    Rawpol

    I completely disagree with you.

    She really needs to check herself before she starts talking in public

    I think she should carry on as she is doing – that way people, women especially, can see her for who she really is and not the made up (no pun intended) person the GOP tries to portray.

    I only hope that the people of Alaska see her for what she really is and vote for someone else come their election. We can all make mistakes – it is how we correct them that matters.

    Adding to my previous post: Palin would not have thought of that herself – it was probably a man who brought it to the table.

  50. 50 Julie P
    October 6, 2008 at 18:03

    Palin is a loose cannon trying to get a free ride on based on her gender. Ex. had a man debated the way she did on Thursday night they would have been taken to the cleaners on a lot of levels. 1) not answering questions. 2) using her sexuality during the debate by winking repeatedly, giving “shout outs”, just to name a few. I don’t support Palin, because I do not believe she represents my interests or will be good for the country.

    Women are not obligated to support another any more than men are obligated to support one another.

    I have had close friendships with other women in all phases of my life, this also applies to men.

  51. 51 Balázs in Budapest
    October 6, 2008 at 18:06

    Sarah Palin deserves just as much positive discrimination for being a woman as Hillary Clinton got. Namely none…
    She is trying to play the woman card because she fails so clearly in every aspect of being a good state person. It’s really ironic how this kind of positive discrimination is so loudly opposed by the christian conservatives (a.k.a Sarah’s base) when it comes to race or ethnicity.

  52. 52 calendulacat
    October 6, 2008 at 18:06

    As usual Palin did a mis-quote. Albright said: THERE’S A PLACE IN HELL FOR WOMEN WHO DON’T HELP OTHER WOMEN.
    That’s what’s on the Starbucks cup. Please correct this.
    Thankyou.

  53. 53 Sauron K.
    October 6, 2008 at 18:07

    I don’t believe women are their own worst enemies, but “a few bad apples spoils the bunch”. A few women with a less than pleasant personality can really make the rest of us look bad. The same could be said of any group.
    I think everybody should support each other, and the greater good.

  54. 54 Charlie Bradley
    October 6, 2008 at 18:09

    There is a huge issue being over looked here. Sarah Palin has basically condemned the whole female population to hell if they don’t vote McCain/Palin.
    Madeline Albright, at least, made it on her own merit! Sarah Palin doesn’t have the intelligence nor the experience to do what women like Albright, Clinton, and others of that ilk have done to further the equality of women.

  55. 55 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 18:10

    the speaker does not know what quoting means. palin actually MIS-quoted albright and completly took it out context.

  56. 56 Lyle Johnson
    October 6, 2008 at 18:10

    She misquoted:

    Actually, Albright didn’t say that. The accurate quote is, “There’s a place in Hell reserved for women who don’t help other women.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/05/palin-misquotes-albright_n_131967.html?view=print

  57. 57 viola
    October 6, 2008 at 18:11

    Are women their own worst enemies? Only when they cannot recognize who their enemies are. Example are abusive spouses and abusive laws.

    Canada

  58. 58 Debra, Austin, TX
    October 6, 2008 at 18:11

    I will never support a woman who does not support other women, especially in the right to choose their lifestyle. If Ms. Palin had supported sex education in Alaska schools, she very well may not have had a pregnant 16 year old daughter. If you are not willing to support giving women information about reproductive issues and you are not willing to support the funding that allows women to have proper reproductive care then as a woman, you are bringing us all down.
    I also find it disgraceful that she keeps referring to supporting “Joe six pack” when in america we have a severe problem with alcoholism. Maybe instead of supporting “Joe Six Pack” she needs to support “Joe Six Pack”‘s wife who is probably being abused either emotionally or physically by her drunken husband.

    I am not supporting a woman who refuses to look out for other women.

  59. 59 Kelly
    October 6, 2008 at 18:12

    Supporting someone does not always mean agreeing with them. I support Sarah Palin in her quest for the Vice Presidentship, but I won’t vote for her ticket.

  60. 60 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 18:12

    Julie P,

    Exactly, palin can wink and probably grop a men’s bottom and it would be all just OK because she is sahra-six-pack. imagine a man acting like that, his carrer would be over or at least in jeopardy.

  61. 61 Monica, Washington, DC
    October 6, 2008 at 18:13

    I can’t believe Palin said that. There are so many examples of how SHE doesn’t support other women (i.e. charging women for their own rape exams). I would never vote for someone based on such reasons as race or gender. That in my opinion is just flat out ignorant.

  62. 62 Steve
    October 6, 2008 at 18:16

    To support the comment of the Pakistani judge about women being jealous of each other, here are some articles:

    http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/relationships/article3386642.ece

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24395334/

  63. 63 viola
    October 6, 2008 at 18:17

    Sarah Palin must rally women to vote for a woman; otherwise the Republican ticket has a snowball’s chance in hell and they know it.

    Canada

  64. 64 Norman
    October 6, 2008 at 18:17

    Any woman or any man still has to earn my vote. It’s not a patrimony or a matrimony.

  65. 65 Paul in Eugene, OR
    October 6, 2008 at 18:17

    I would suggest that women have every right to oppose a woman whose values and policies are essentially anti-feminist.

  66. 66 carrie
    October 6, 2008 at 18:18

    i am looking forward to watching sarah palin burn in that special place in hell as a result of cutting funding to single mothers in alaska. also does this comment from her indicate that she voted for hillary clinton in the alaska primary? if not does that mean that she gets the double burn?

  67. 67 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 18:18

    @ Debra

    So a woman has to think exactly like you do for her to be worthy of your respect? How dare sarah palin think differently!

    ““Joe Six Pack”’s wife who is probably being abused either emotionally or physically by her drunken husband. ”

    I won’t even get into how you jumped to that assumption.

    So if she doesn’t agree with you, she doesn’t support women. interesting, yet so many “feminists” are telling Palin she should be a stay at home mother becuase of her kids. Funny how feminism goes out the window when you don’t agree with a woman’s views.

  68. October 6, 2008 at 18:18

    Women have a greater sense of fairness and integrity than men, especially in regard to politics. A woman voter will put the readiness and character of a candidate before the candidate’s gender. Men, however, will also look at the character and readiness of a candidate when deciding for whom to vote. But, if a man and woman are running for the same office, men will band together to defeat the woman, regardless of the male candidate’s qualifications.

  69. October 6, 2008 at 18:19

    to the lady on the panel.

    First Miss Alaska mis quoted Miss Albrite. Aslo, taken out of context.

    However, I am glad to see Sarah is reading now. I don’t know why shy didn’t list “star bucks coffee cups” as her source of information in the Couric interview.

    Secondly, Should Sarah support Susan Smith, Casy Anthony, Andra Yates, Or Dena Schlosser? How about Cindy Sheehan? Where is Sarah’s support for these women?

  70. 70 Bob in USA
    October 6, 2008 at 18:19

    Anyone who would vote for a woman simply because she’s a women, and for no other reason, is just as much a sexist as those who would vote against a woman for the same reason.

  71. 71 JIMMY
    October 6, 2008 at 18:20

    Sara Palin winks and is cute in front of the camera then requests the support of those that are most likely to abhor these behaviours.

    Women should be critical of those that advance the stereotype

  72. 72 calendulacat
    October 6, 2008 at 18:21

    In America there’s an Ol’ Boys Network – men helping other men in business. I think that’s what Albright was referring to & her quote has been taken out of context. She’s not the first to suggest that women should help each other get a foothold in the business world – break through the glass ceiling, etc.

    Abortion & other personal choices have nothing to do with any of this.

  73. 73 Rosie in Houston
    October 6, 2008 at 18:21

    I take issue with the most recent of Palin’s ridiculous comments not because she is “pretty,” but because she is truly ridiculous. She stands for the extreme right fundamentalism that I oppose with every fiber of my being. I resent the implication that she is somehow entitled to my vote because I am a woman, and I feel insulted that the Republican party seems to believe that if they put a woman on the ticket that women will feel obligated to vote for McCain. I, too, am a soccer mom, and this book-banning, ex brother-in-law removing, make the rape-victim-pay-for-rape-kit pit bull will never get my vote. She does not represent my values in any way and I do not identify with her. It’s as simple as that.

  74. 74 Linsay
    October 6, 2008 at 18:21

    It’s important to note that Sarah Palin misstated Albright’s quote. Palin said “women who don’t SUPPORT other women.” Albright said “women who don’t HELP other women.”

    These two words have very different interpretations and connotations.

    Did Palin do this intentionally to support her cause? That is a question to ask.

    -Linsay
    Berkeley, CA
    USA

  75. 75 Jaime in Portland, OR
    October 6, 2008 at 18:22

    The fact that she sources historic quotes from a Starbucks cup is insulting to women in this country. I am not a Hillary supporter either, but at least she is an American woman worth looking up to and I respect her greatly. Sarah Palin has been a complete disappoint from the beginning and you can count me in as one of her enemies.

  76. 76 carrie
    October 6, 2008 at 18:22

    does this mean we can all look forward to sarah palin burning in hell as a result of cutting funding to single mothers in alaska? also does this comment indicate that she voted for clinton in the alaska primary? if not does that mean that she gets some kind of double burn?

  77. 77 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 18:22

    I knew the pay gap myth would come up in this discussion. It’s an outright lie, based upon the choices that women make, going into lower paying fields or working part time. Your guest said that equal pay is a major issue, when in reality, in big cities, women earn MORE than men.
    Wouldn’t want to confuse your guest with facts.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html

    This show is making sick with the lies. Women earn less on average because they choose to work in lower paying fields, work part time, work less dangerous work. I’m sorry, but a secretary working 15 hours a week isn’t going to earn as much as male lawyer work 100 hour weeks. Your guests would want to force the part time secretary to earn 200,000 a year, causing massive inflation.

  78. 78 Abraham
    October 6, 2008 at 18:23

    Isn’t it ironic that a woman who is running with a man that has always voted against equal pay for women should question a woan’s right of women to support people based on issues and not gender. I do not agree with such notion of a blind support from women either from Palin or Albright because it undermines and insult the independence and intelligence of women in general.

  79. 79 Julie P
    October 6, 2008 at 18:23

    @Jens,

    That is my problem with her. Hillary Clinton got dragged through the mud and did not cry sexism once, but with Palin there would cries all over the place about sexism. Palin’s playing a game, is using her sexuality to do it, and is setting women back a millenia.

  80. 80 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 18:23

    the issue, is a simple one. Palin is disliked by many people, because of her policies and stances, not because she is woman.

  81. 81 kat
    October 6, 2008 at 18:24

    To me feminism means the ability to have a choice, and support/equality in that choice. Before women didn’t have a choice in their life, they had a path and had to follow it. If I want to have a million kids because that makes me happy, well then I want to be supported in that. If I want to continue on my career path, then I want support there too.

  82. October 6, 2008 at 18:24

    Can somebody break down why Sarah would have even brought that quote up in the first place. Who was she talking to and why was she saying it?

    At least what do people feel the answers to these questions are?

  83. 83 Marylee
    October 6, 2008 at 18:24

    To generalize that all American women who will not vote for Sarah Palin is grossly unfair. This is not an issue of undermining a sisterhood. I am a feminist, and believe that we all have the right and responsibility to support the candidates who are most qualified to lead our nation back to prosperity and long-term health. The McCain-Palin ticket is using this call for women to unify and vote for her to get votes! I would not vote for Sarah Palin if she were an old man, young man, disabled, an astronaut or a cleric. The Republican ticket promises prosperity to the rich but leaves the rest of us to the mercy of regressive taxes and no help with health care.

  84. October 6, 2008 at 18:25

    Hello World,

    This type of statement should be put in the “lipstick on a pig Issue ” trash can. As I watch my neighbors loose their houses, it is embarrassing to see a national candidate hiding behind her own skirts to avoid discussing real issues

    It is a technique used by the republican party, aimed at diverting real anger people feel towards Senator McCains’s current handling of the financial crisis..

    The point is to end the discussion on “real issues” such as the financial crisis and its solutions, and get us arguing about women not supporting women

    It is a moot question. The majority of women and men support the person that will do the best job.

    We need to see Sarah Palin, and anyone else who dares to use this method at this time, as the dancing smiley faces we watch on Internet ads, trying endlessly to distract us from the truth.

    Thank you and good luck to all of us,

    Barbara Halliday Crawley
    Morrisville PA USA

  85. 85 Kal in Indiana
    October 6, 2008 at 18:25

    Palin has helped no women – why should I help her? If she’s really such a feminist, why did she support raped women paying for their exams? What does Carol say about that? Isn’t that a “women’s issue”? It’s clear Carol hasn’t worked for money – equal pay for equal work is NOT a reality for many women, even highly educated one.

    I couldn’t support Palin on other issues – her stance on energy, war, you name it.

  86. October 6, 2008 at 18:26

    @ Will,

    I understand the humour in your position especially as a Democrat. However, I am actually concerned and genuinely so, if the RNC wins. This kind of, to use JulieP’s expression – ‘loose cannon’ behaviour, is not the ideal mark of a good leader. Indeed, it is not the mark of any kind of leader of any reputable character. It is in that regard that I advise that she checks what she says before she speaks. She really does come off as an over inflated beauty queen (no dis!) who has been given way too much play. Forget the debates and potentially being the VP, Sarah Palin is really just another pretty face that the media have become facinated with. Hopefully, the facination expires on E-Day!

  87. 87 Tom D Ford
    October 6, 2008 at 18:26

    Sarah Palin is a right wing fundamentalist religious nut-case and only her fellow nut-cases would support her.

    No self respecting woman would support her.

  88. 88 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 18:26

    The “glass ceiling” these days in the west is women realizing that working sucks, so they quit or switch part time, but still feel like they should be the CEO. Been a lawyer for a while, and lots of the females quit, because honestly, it’s a terrible life. But the ones that quit, go to work a lower paying job that they “love” while relying on a man to provide for them. How many men have that option?

  89. 89 David W
    October 6, 2008 at 18:28

    To me the question is, if you are a woman, which do you think will do more to advance the cause of women: electing one woman, Sarah Palin, to the vice presidency who will shut doors behind her for others, or electing a man who will fight for the rights of millions of women across the nation. Not to mention Palin is running for the vice presidency. The presidential candidates should be the deciding factor, and Barack Obama and John McCain are very different.

  90. 90 Roberta in Gig Harbor, WA
    October 6, 2008 at 18:28

    Albright’s quote was “There’s a place in Hell reserved for women who don’t help other women.”

    I think you ought to make the point that Palin got it wrong, and that it changes the meaning. Palin was cynically trying to get the women who supported women to support her, but that’s definitely not what Albright was talking about.

    Good journalism demands that you clarify this.

  91. 91 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 18:28

    Ros,

    but she is save because of her witchdoctor blessing. she has lost the plot completly and wants to now have the cutties i am only a girl defence. i admire strong women, but she is a wet blanket.

  92. 92 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 18:28

    @ Tom
    Way to insult everyone who doesn’t share your views. You as a male know what makes a woman self respecting?

  93. 93 James in Fort Myers, FL
    October 6, 2008 at 18:29

    The quote of “a special place in hell for women who dont support other women” goes both ways.
    What has Sarah Palin done to support other women, or plan to do that supports women?

    And can you please try to be specific when your guest attributes things to “left wing” feminists? Who exactly is saying these things? I’ve never heard these arguments from specific sources always just a generality. It sounds like a straw man argument.

  94. 94 Kim, Heob, OR, USA
    October 6, 2008 at 18:30

    I would not vote for a woman just because of her gender, just as I would not vote for a black person because of their race, or a gay person because of their sexual preference. To vote for a woman just because she is a woman is reverse sexism in my mind. I vote for a person because I believe in their character and their stand on issues.

  95. 95 Tom D Ford
    October 6, 2008 at 18:30

    Frankly, it scares the heck out of me that some right-wing religious Conservative fundamentalist like Sarah Palin, who desires to be Raptured, has a possibility of being in control of our “Football”, that briefcase that is always within the immediate reach of the US President and contains our nuclear launch codes in case of Nuclear War.

    The idea of the Rapture negates any usefulness of the concept of MAD, Mutual Assured Destruction, as a deterrent to Nuclear war, Palin actually wants the destruction to come about, she wants Rapture to happen.

    I have had more than enough of these Conservative religious wackos, putting one in the possibility of becoming President is foolhardy in the extreme.

  96. 96 Mandie
    October 6, 2008 at 18:30

    You cannot vote for women because they are women. Sisterhood is an emotional hood. You cannot vote for emotion. If women do this for Sarah then we also reverse how far women have came in neutral terms.
    Gender norming isn’t tolerated by most women who are confident in their abilities!

  97. 97 David in California
    October 6, 2008 at 18:31

    You’re all missing the key point here. The republican party are once again trying to force individuals to vote by threatening religious repercussions – like Hell – for those who do not. This message from Palin is threatening Hell for women who don’t vote for her and the republican ticket.

  98. 98 Ogola Benard
    October 6, 2008 at 18:31

    one question? how do women look at themselves in this universe.sometimes they are their worst enemies but they are the vulnerable group.

  99. 99 Alexandra in Pascagoula, Mississippi, USA
    October 6, 2008 at 18:32

    Now Sarah Sleaze wants us to believe Barack Obama hangs out with terrorists.
    RIGHT!
    He’s a close, personal friend of Osama bin Laden!

    And I wonder why I’m waxing poetic at 5:32 am about my least favorite V.P. candidate instead of being asleep . . .

    Sarah Sleaze, Sarah Sleaze,
    send her back to the deep freeze!

    Ya sure know how to pick ’em John!

  100. October 6, 2008 at 18:32

    @ Barbara Halliday Crawley,

    Very well said!

    @ Will,

    See, there are others who recognise the Republican ploy of trying to hijack real issues and focus instead on nonsense like who is ‘more patriotic’, who is a terrorist, whether women are fighting against each other, etc.

    Can we get real please! Thousands of people are dying in Afghanistan and Iraq because of an unjust war and countless others are loosing thier homes in the US. People outside of America are (in)directly affected by these issues. We cannot allow the debate to be reduced to these peripheral concerns. If Palin lacks the grit and character for the job, say so and politely step down. The US/ world is demanding real leadership at this time, not the kind that Palin and McCain seems to be offering.

  101. 101 Norman
    October 6, 2008 at 18:32

    Does Palin mean that the women who didn’t vote for Nancy Pelosi are going to Hell?

  102. 102 Jessica
    October 6, 2008 at 18:33

    I wonder, would Sarah Palin have voted for Hillary Clinton if Hillary had been the Democratic nominee instead of Obama? I doubt it.

  103. 103 Cal
    October 6, 2008 at 18:33

    The interesting thing with Palin is that she, thus far, has not been chosen by the citizenry. She was selected by John McCain alone. Does anyone believe she could have made headway as a Republican primary candidate?

  104. 104 Peg Marson
    October 6, 2008 at 18:33

    It’s a POLITICAL election. Of course we should vote on the political issues. Women are enemies of common sense if they forget the context of a situation and just vote gender.

    If we vote a woman in who supports anti-woman policies, how are we helping women’s causes?

    Peg Marson

  105. 105 Shaun in Halifax
    October 6, 2008 at 18:34

    Just another dumb question: does anybody believe in “Actions speak louder than words” anymore?

    I’m tired of hearing a stuffed (pant)suit blowing hot air about how s/he will do this, that, and the other thing and knowing, just KNOWING that they’re wasting oxygen and pandering to the lowest common denominator b/c that happens to (sadly) be the majority of the populace. In ANY country.

    I’m having a helluva time figuring out who to vote for in my own country because I can’t for the life of me get a straight answer out of anybody. Not to mention the campaigning is stupid. “If you want to live in a Canadian version of Harper’s Republican US, vote Harper. If not, vote somebody else.” THAT DOESN’T HELP THINGS!!!! IwishIwishIwishIWISH politicans would give people SOME credit as capable of critical thought and forming their own opinions.

    Anybody ‘member this little ditty?

    Remember remember the fifth of November
    Gunpowder, treason and plot.
    I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
    Should ever be forgot…

    THEY should be afraid of US. NOT the other way around. Effin politicians!!!

    Apologies for being off-topic, and thank you all for listening to me rant. Politics gets me WAY too torqued up.

  106. 106 Mary
    October 6, 2008 at 18:35

    First of all Madeleine Albright reported this morning that what she actually said is that “there is a special place in hell for women who do not HELP other women.” Big difference to me. I will support women who are qualified for the job I will help any woman.

  107. 107 Ted
    October 6, 2008 at 18:38

    Many women in the U.S. seem to have trouble getting past the guns/anti-abortion issues, and perhaps are even afraid of failure; that is, if Sarah fails in her position, it will reflect poorly upon all women. Who knows? Governor Palin may yet rise to the occasion as our V.P., as has been the case with many who are thrust into leadership.

  108. 108 Sharon
    October 6, 2008 at 18:38

    Why would anyone think that all women think alike, anymore than all men think alike? Of course we are not going to support a woman just because she is a woman – we will evaluate her cause and qualifications and vote accordingly. I could not vote for Sarah Palin because she does not espouse my beliefs in any way. I would have loved to have seen Hillary Clinton succeed because she does emulate my beliefs. Likewise, I will not vote for McCain, but will vote for Obama. Gender does not have anything to do with my choice, it is only a plus if it follows my beliefs.

  109. 109 Rachel in Prague
    October 6, 2008 at 18:39

    I dont support Palin because her ideas are bad. Full stop.

  110. 110 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 18:39

    sahar is actually trying to segregate men from women. she runs on the platform so well advertiesed by bush, “if you not for us, the you are against us”. what is wrong with this position ist that only united we are able to tackel the issues. simply if a black lesbian atheist is best for the job, then the job should go to that person. full stop, no if and buts. we can NOT afford to have these walls of segregation raised again.

  111. 111 Enzo1990
    October 6, 2008 at 18:39

    Some women can be “women’s worst enemies”. They do things like push their 17-year-old daughters into marriage for the sake of propriety, or hide behind their gender to avoid questions of their competence. Or show that they, in fact, DO read, by misquoting a coffee cup. Or do that wink. Or claim to have a well-thought-out anti-abortion stance but not understand that the morning-after pill acts pre-conception and is not an abortion pill, or signs a budget in which the local police are authorized to charge for rape kits. With “friends” like that…

  112. 112 Ogola Benard
    October 6, 2008 at 18:40

    There is an article In the newvision.co.ug. A Ugandan woman killed a small girl just because she had differences with her mother? she take a death sentence!!???

  113. 113 Hana Z, Prague
    October 6, 2008 at 18:40

    Any woman should feel obliged to fight for S. Palin’s right to run for the office, but at the same time they should feel free to call her an idiot if that’s what they think.

  114. October 6, 2008 at 18:40

    @ JulieP,

    Agreed. At the end of her campaigning ,the Women’s Movement will be stuck in the Jurassic Age! Sarah Palin is not even trying to pretend to know anything she just talks and talks and even misquotes others in her efforts to undo the foundations of the move towards equal rights, yet there is so much complaint about sexism from the Republicans! How convenient!

    Perhaps Will is right, after all. She needs to continue at this pacce, alienating voters as she goes along. Still, I am aware that a week is a long time in politics and much can happen between then and now. It behooves her to think through and about what she says before she does.

  115. 115 Jonas, Canadian in Texas
    October 6, 2008 at 18:40

    Feminism is more a left leaning social ideology than a carte blanche support of women in politics.

  116. 116 John in Salem
    October 6, 2008 at 18:41

    Now that I think about it, all of MY worst enemies have been women.

  117. 117 Bardly
    October 6, 2008 at 18:41

    If you consider the shape of the candidates’ genitals significant,
    PLEASE do not vote.

    Vote based on a candidate’s record, stated positions, even party affiliation.

  118. 118 Holly
    October 6, 2008 at 18:42

    I b elieve that the idea that women are our own worst enemies comes from the common observation that women in the workplace, for example, can be extremely hard on one another. (I hear this mainly from men, I might add.)

    One explanation for this is to think of the powerlessness inherent in womanhood. We can argue all day about whether women really do make the same money for the same work as men, or whether women have shattered any of variuos glass ceilings. The bottom line is that women are, generally speaking, weaker physicalyl than most men, and men know this. Not only do they know it, but all too many of them use it to their advantage.

    What men see, for instance, when they are managers of large groups of women, is the frustration of the powerless. Women fight for control over one another in the workplace in various ways because, all too often, it is the only way we can have any level of power. Similar things happen in situations where large groups of men are powerless (for example, prisons).

    Those women among you who have not had this experience, you are lucky. Not only have I worked in many situations in which women were generally powerless, but I have also been a victim of domestic abuse at the hands of a male. I am also a PhD student who spends a great deal of time reading about domestic violence and the power struggle of the genders. So this isn’t some random observation based on one or two experiences. This sort of powerlessness is all too real, even in 2008 America.

    Vote for Palin or endure hell… hmm… tough choice there. I guess the hell on earth would be only four years….

  119. 119 Kai from portland oregon
    October 6, 2008 at 18:42

    I think the point is that given two people of equal qualifications I support the one who breaks new ground for underrepresented constituencies.

  120. 120 Beth in the U.S.
    October 6, 2008 at 18:42

    Your guest Carol has it wrong why Feminists don’t like Sarah Palin. Palin’s politics ARE important. The whole basis of Feminism is that women should be able to make their own choices as to how to live their lives, and not be dictated by religion, patriarchy and/or culture. Sarah Palin’s political views want to curtail womens’ choices as to how to education children on sexuality, what books are “correct” to read, what religion is “true,” and how women are able or not able to terminate early pregnancies, even in the case of rape and incest.

  121. 121 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 18:44

    Your guest is using scare tactics now, and she doesn’t seem to care that men are hurting due to the economy. I bet she only cares that women are hurting.

  122. 122 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 18:44

    i am still trying to see how she is HOT and how this should be an argument to be VP.

  123. 123 Warren
    October 6, 2008 at 18:44

    Supporting Sarah Palin is not the same as supporting other women. Some of her ideas are anit-women’s liberation. Also, if she makes it to president and isn’t qualified, she could discredit the idea of another woman for president for a long time to come.

  124. 124 Pangolin-California
    October 6, 2008 at 18:44

    I know one woman is everyones enemy. When Sara Palin opens up and talks the stock markets dive. Get the duct tape already.

  125. 125 Douglas, Canada
    October 6, 2008 at 18:44

    Yes, Palin has likely appointed based upon her gender but that has nothing to do with her lack of popularity. My wife cringes as much as I when Sarah Palin opens her mouth. Remember that she has been appointed by the same party that installed George Bush in the White House. Ability and wisdom does not appear to be a requirement for republican leadership.

  126. October 6, 2008 at 18:45

    I do agree with Mrs. Pallin that “women should support one another” IN THE FIGHT FOR NOBEL CAUSES, SUCH AS FREEDOM, THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS, EQUALITY, ETC.
    There is more at play in Mrs. Pallin’s case, which I will not go into, for it’s evident;
    In summary, this world WOULD BE a better place if women would stand for one another; rid themselves of envy, hatred, insecurities and uplift one another at work, at home, in society, in politics, and everywhere else!

  127. 127 Kelsie in Houston
    October 6, 2008 at 18:45

    “Sarah Palin’s a woman–so what?” — good point.

  128. 128 Cathy (American working in Egypt)
    October 6, 2008 at 18:45

    Women not supporting other women is not the issue. Women, just by the nature of being friends and family members help each other out. The big issue here is that Sarah Palin’s remark has nothing to do with supporting other women.

    Being supportive does not mean that you vote for people who do not represent what you believe is important for the world. I think it is wonderful that we have a choice in this election and either way we have made steps forward for women and for people of color. But, who we vote for should not come down voting for a woman but voting for who represents what we believe.

    We become sexist or racist when we make our choices based on gender or color and not on the CONTENT of what they stand for. I really have to believe that woman in the US are smarter than making a choice based on anything other than the content of the policies.

    I have lived around the world as an expat American. I have seen women hurt the cause of women when they swallow the short statements and incomplete arguments rather than listen to the content of the policy argument. The frustrating thing about the US election process is that the media focus is on the sound bite not the real issues.

  129. 129 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 18:46

    So the right to kill your own child is the main “woman’s right” thing? Wow, I would be absolutely ashamed if that was the most important “value” I had.

  130. 130 Peter
    October 6, 2008 at 18:46

    Peter in Holland would like to say:

    Women are their own greatest critics in terms of self-esteem when it comes to appearance.
    I believe that most women are aware that many men actually prefer a “full-figured” woman, but peer-pressure (from other women) forces an “ideal” of extremely thin women being the “goal” or the “he only true beauty”.
    One only has to look at fashion-catwalks or open a women’s magazine to see how this is propagated to see how impossibly (and perhaps unhealthily) slim figures are lauded, whilst anything “fuller”s immediately scorned and ridiculed.

    Best regards,
    Peter

  131. 131 Maureen in Edinburgh, Scotland
    October 6, 2008 at 18:46

    I find it ridiculous that Sarah Palin used a great quote by Madeline Albright as though it was a stupid thing to say. In my view, Sarah Palin is doing nothing to help the cause of women worldwide. Any vice-presidential candidate who feels the need to wink at the camera during a debate to enhance her standing, just doesn’t get it! Why doesn’t she use her great intellect to impress women and men? Well, it’s because she doesn’t possess the gift of a great intellect, and thinks that winking is ok. It is an insult to women.

    When I was a trade union officer, I represented more people than Sarah Palin had in the town of Wassila. I negotiated policies that enhanced women’s lives, in particular a Sexual Harassment policy which whether we like it or not, affects many more women than men. I also negotiated a Time Off for Sick Dependants Policy, which unfortunately helped more women than men, because of the way this world works. I understand Sarah Palin cut funding to women who were subject to Domestic Abuse in Alaska. She should lay off women who have helped other women.

  132. 132 BrianP Austin, TX
    October 6, 2008 at 18:47

    Hi,
    This is a classic case of feminist schizophrenia. They want full equality and they want special treatment. You can’t have both.

    When Hillary was running, I must have heard a million times how one woman or another wanted to see “a woman in the Whitehouse”. This is blatant discrimination for women. What they don’t seem to understand is that you can’t discriminate for someone without discriminating against somebody else. I would immediately be labeled as a racist and a sexist pig if I were to say I wanted to see a white man in the Whitehouse.

    Making a decision concerning a person based on their gender is something only a sexist pig would do. Sexist pig is as sexist pig does.

    BrianP

  133. 133 Jonelle in Los Angeles
    October 6, 2008 at 18:47

    Women forget how hard those who came before us fought for women to have the rights that we have. As women we need to educate the young women of today of the sacrafices that have been made by those who came before us.

    Sarah Palin being a woman should have nothing to do with voting for her. The issues and what she believes in are what is important. She has a very limited world view and a lack of tolorance for those who are different. That is what sways my vote away from Palin

    Would Sarah Palin have beeen a suffragette?

  134. 134 Tom D Ford
    October 6, 2008 at 18:47

    Humans should look out for each other but Palin is a Conservative and so works to divide humans from each other so she and her wealthy Conservative Republican supporters can continue to oppress the lower classes.

  135. 135 Enzo1990
    October 6, 2008 at 18:48

    The factory where my mom used to work got sued for having so few women in the manufacturing floor (she was then in electronic assembly), and they transfeered a pile of women to the manufacturng part. Big raise, but that’s not the story. She was working a die-cutting machine, and finding it REALLY hard going. Did it for haif a day and was just barely managing her quota. So, thinking that she was willing to go back to her old job, even at the lower salary, she called the boss over. He worked the machine for about a minute, then said “this damn machine is BROKEN. That’s why it’s so hard!”
    She had thought it was hard because it was “men’s work”. When the machine was fixed, it was actually much EASIER than her earlier, lower-paid “women’s” job, and she loved the jobs she had in the manufacturing floor. Never forgot the lesson of that first day, either.

  136. 136 Mary Louise
    October 6, 2008 at 18:48

    Women are women. And we can be our own worst enemies as well as our own best and most loyal friends. Just like men! Duh. John McCain’s choice of an uneducated and unqualified woman as his running mate is simply another example of his well-documented history of doing whatever it takes to get what he wants at the time. Finding an egotistical and overly enthusiastic female pageant contestant to join him in that quest simply shows that THIS pageant contestant is benefiting from the effort and votes of very educated and qualified women office-holders and lawmakers who have preceded her.

  137. 137 Teresa in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
    October 6, 2008 at 18:48

    Palin hasn’t proved herself worthy of office… period.

    If Palin needs to rely on women’s support just because of her gender, she’s got a whole lot of other problems. The main difference between Madeline Albright and Sarah Palin is slightly more of each of the following things: experience, and grey matter. While Albright wasn’t elected, women were more willing to support someone with her substance.

    Supporting Palin because she’s a women is no way to decide who’s best to lead a country.

  138. 138 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 18:49

    steve,

    fetus is the word……………..and yeas awoman should have the right to abortion in many occasions. trust me only the tinniest of tiny minority has frivioulus abortions.

    and how about illigal abortions that can have dire consequences.

    nevermind, palin’s entire quiver of policies are horrible.

  139. 139 Ylva, Swede living in Germany
    October 6, 2008 at 18:49

    Sarah Palin is the last person who should say that women should support each other. Palin opposes freedom for women to decide over their own bodies, she does not accept women who love women… I definetely don’t think that sexist attacks on her are acceptable – she should be judged for her opinions, not her family or looks, but that’s as far as my sisterhood with a misogynist woman goes.

  140. 140 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 18:50

    Funny stuff. The last comments were “just gimme the funding, and don’t you dare even suggest things. GIMME!”

    What entitlement mentalities!

  141. 141 Pavel, Melbourne
    October 6, 2008 at 18:50

    I think me and many people would vote Sarah Palin cos she is the hottest ever.

  142. 142 Bill, UK
    October 6, 2008 at 18:51

    May I remind one of your American contributors – Ms Albright said “500,000” dead Iraqi babies was a ‘price worth paying’ re. sanctions on Iraq.

    Not my idea of liberal.

  143. 143 Dedi in SLC, Utah
    October 6, 2008 at 18:51

    Anybody could say anything. But does that mean they are right? I for one never heard of such a thing in all heavenly religions on earth.

  144. October 6, 2008 at 18:52

    Rawpol

    I’m not too sure what you mean – I bring (or try) levity to the discussion because I find the whole “vote me solely because I am a woman” a bit ridiculous. If a man did that we all know what would happen.

    If the US electorate votes for McCain as president, there is nothing the rest of the world can do about it. They made their choice so they will have to live with it. The consequences of such a vote has been warned about – but it is their way of doing things so it is a matter of so be it.

    Shaun!!!!!!!!

    My point exactly – make the politicians scared of us again.

    And this year the whole village is coming to a Guy Fawkes night party at our house. ‘Tis amazing how few understand what that historical even was about.

  145. 145 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 18:52

    @ Jens

    Yes, if you dehumanize it, it’s a lot easier kill. I would have a easier time killing a fetus vs. a child as well. However you choose to delude yourself, you’re free to do it, except when it affects others. I can’t imagine wanting to kill my child so badly that I would have an illegal back alley abortion. I guess I’m simply not that selfish that I wanted to kill my kid so badly becuase it would inconvenience my life. It’s all about extreme selfishness.

  146. October 6, 2008 at 18:52

    Listening to your program on Fm from Nepal, i want to comment to your program.
    ya, i totally agree with your theme.women’s psyche is toally different from males. Womens never want their race to progress. This is even the problem of my country Nepal.
    And really, i think this is the main problem and also reason why women are not that sucessful as man.

  147. 147 Trent West
    October 6, 2008 at 18:53

    Its our money. Please do not take it if you do not want pre-conditions. Maybe I will have to pay less taxes.

  148. 148 David Boe
    October 6, 2008 at 18:53

    The Conservative American woman on the phone in the first half hour of the show was someone who demonstrates why politics are so polarized in this country. She artfully distorts facts (her reference to Clinton’s “sexual harassment” while in the White House is inflammatory and inaccurate, but it went by so quickly as to be simply passed over in light of the larger topic under discussion) and she is rude in refusing to allow others to speak and talks over others to dominate the discussion. It is frustrating for liberals, who, by the nature of being liberal, are more willing to to give others a chance to air their views, that conservatives, on the other hand, are willing to LIE and cheat and take unfair advantage of the liberal philosophy to accomplish their goals. They justify their actions by a sense of moral rectitude; a literal belief that they are “holier than thou.” Since they believe that God is on their side, ANY action they take, from the extremes of torture and murder as evidenced by the Bush Administration, to the seemingly innocuous distortions of Sarah Palin in misreading a Starbucks cup; they are all symptoms of this conservative ideology, which is at its heart, the SAME KIND of ultra-conservative and misguided viewpoint of Radical Islam, which advocates the destruction of the West. Their respective justifications are THE SAME: that they are right in the service of their God. If they are unwilling to “play fair” and will not hesitate to lie and cheat and steal and behave in ways that most human beings consider contemptible (and which they themselves deny, literally speaking out of both sides of their mouths); in the same way that it impossible to fully defend against suicide bombers, how do you defend or overcome these perverse and ultimately destructive ideologies?

  149. 149 GB
    October 6, 2008 at 18:53

    Steve, are serious???? I am offended in the worst way that you would imply that black people are voting for Obama simply because he’s black. Are you similarly convinced that women who support Palin are doing so on the basis of her gender? Or what about the men or white people voting for McCain…are they doing so because he is a white male? What if I surmised they were? Your comment is beneath contempt.

    As far as the topic, I don’t think women are their own worst enemy. However, Palin’s attempt to misappropriate Albright’s quote for her own ends is…I suppose we should have expected this from the maverick. I’d like to talk about energy…*sighing as I recall Palin’s strategy during the vice-presidential debate.

  150. 150 Shaun in Halifax
    October 6, 2008 at 18:54

    Steve, if you give somebody a gift of money, should you have any say how they spend that money? Or does the fact that it’s no longer in your hands make it none of your business how somebody spends it?

  151. October 6, 2008 at 18:54

    Nonsense. Quality should take priority over gender. As one of the ladies mentioned, yes she would pick her up if she fell….. etc.

    I was most offended by such a simplistic, over the top, irrational, irresponsible, patronizing statement

  152. 152 Diane, Portland Oregon
    October 6, 2008 at 18:54

    All feminist issues aside, I wish today’s question was, “What kind of political candidate, let alone a person running for VP of the US, Quotes publicly something they’ve read from a Starbuck’s coffee cup?”

  153. 153 Shaun in Halifax
    October 6, 2008 at 18:55

    @ Will

    Where’s your place? I already have my mask, cape and barrel of black powder.

  154. 154 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 18:55

    @ Pavel,

    you must be kidding, right…….seriosuly you are joking……..i mean the “hottest ever”…………………i can think of about at least one million women who are “hotter” and infinitly more INTELLIGENT that she is, but then that is only my humble opinion.

  155. 155 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 18:56

    @ Shaun

    Of course, especially when it’s a condition gift. Since people are not entitled to you giving them a gift, you can put conditions on the gift. The major problem with people these days is the absolutle entitlement mentality they have.

    Shaun, I can give you a house with the condition that you get the house, so long as you never drink alcohol. If you drink alcohol, you lose the house. Should they be entitled to drink and not lose the house if they do?

  156. 156 Shaun in Halifax
    October 6, 2008 at 18:56

    @ Steve

    Touche, sir.

  157. 157 Alan In Phoenix
    October 6, 2008 at 18:57

    I haven’t heard her say the statement yet but it sounds like what the darker skinned people I know have been saying about O’Bama here in Phoenix. The blacks at my wife’s school have been working to get the Hispanics to vote for O’Bama since they have darker skin, even though many are women. I’ll probably write myself in since I know I can trust me! Everyone should put their own name down! Send the politicians a message!

  158. 158 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 18:57

    @ steve,

    at least you and your loved one have the choice. nobody forces you to have an abortion……

  159. 159 Helen
    October 6, 2008 at 18:57

    greeing with Hilary Clinton but disagreeing with Sarah Palin smells political to me. Nice of the husky-voiced lawyer to say she’d pick up Sarah Palin if she fell down on the street; her sarcasm smacks of insincerity. I can’t believe she’d actually do that in all circumstances. Nice try though. I do believe,going on the conversation becoming political without becoming political, that there are a huge number of African Americans who would not be voting for Barack Obama if he were white. Ya think?

  160. 160 Glenn, Canada
    October 6, 2008 at 18:58

    Voting for Sarah Palin based upon her gender simply reinforces the notion of female inferiority. It implies Palin needs a hand up just because she’s a woman.

    A true feminist would vote based upon the issues, confident in her ability to stand alongside men in their ability to reason. The gender of a candidate would not even enter into their thoughts…

  161. 161 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 18:59

    @ Jens?

    What choice? I have no say. That’s “equality”. I would argue that extreme selfishness forces one to have an abortion. Imagine killing your child simply because it was inconvenient for you. That’s what happens. Just pure, unadulterated, self absorption.

  162. 162 Iris in Corvallis, Oregon, USA
    October 6, 2008 at 18:59

    Sarah Palin is an embarrassment to America and to women everywhere. She advocates the repression of women with her strong stance against abortion and sex education, and perpetuates sexist stereotypes with her behavior.
    Winking at the camera, trying to act cutesy, not having a clue about the workings of the world make her extremely unqualified and inappropriate for the position of Vice President.
    U.S. Republicans love this image of a woman, while they revile truly strong, smart, independent women like Hillary Clinton, who wears pants and can actually intelligently debate her male political peers.
    Plain acts like nothing more than a sassy barmaid, which is a wholly inappropriate way to behave on the world stage.
    Imagine Hillary Clinton or Condi Rice winking and smiling while giving a speech to the nation or while visiting foreign heads of state. Imagine Margaret Thatcher saying, “Cor blimey, guv” while addressing MPs.
    Women get my respect when they command it and deserve it, not just because they have the same body parts I do.

  163. 163 Laura
    October 6, 2008 at 18:59

    I have been amazed at the attacks on Palin – and those from women are among the worst. What is there to fear in this woman that she should be so savagely attacked by mainstream women in the media? Her quote that she obviously found interesting was just that – a quote from none other than a Starbucks coffee cup! How trivial and how stupid have these attacks become? What insecurity among women! There seems to be one – yes just one issue – which these women seem to highlight as something they have in contention with Palin. As if she was just a one issue candidate. Utterly amazing to me is that she never has stressed it as an issue. It would seem from these women in general they are happy with the status quo. I side with the silent millions of women world-wide who deeply admire this tenacious women and her family. Having witnessed the attacks – really low attacks – on our sister: attacks uncalled for on her children and husband – they only make me admire her that much more. Those who would stoop so low might want to be wary that these very attacks are cementing her as a sister to stand behind with solidarity rather than gain the political ground they hope. They certainly have the reverse affect on me and many, many I have spoken with – both men and women.

  164. 164 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 19:00

    i have a suggstion for palin. maybe she should get the entire series of starbucks coffe cups and pull them at random out of a bag and quote them during her interviews. i am convinced she would make more senses that what she is coming out with right now

  165. 165 Linda W.
    October 6, 2008 at 19:00

    I am just amazed that these “goody-two-shoes” so-called “Christians” are the know-it-alls when it comes to their “God’s” words.

    What happened to the gift that their God gave to man and woman – FREE WILL. This means that we have choices – whether it is to have an abortion or not – it is a CHOICE.

    That means we ALL have the right to CHOOSE what is right. That doesn’t mean that men get to choose what is right and wrong for us.

    Why did McCain pick Palin? She’s one of the fanatics who believes men rule – she will be controlled easily by the party. She’s playing the BS card now.

    What ever happened to the truth? Both sides do it but the Christian right most of all. Somewhere in the corruption of Christianity they seem to believe the end justifies the means and will lie, twist words and do what ever it takes to get THEIR way or their interpretation of what they think God wants.

  166. 166 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 19:01

    steve,

    in a true relationship it is a choice between you and your mate, at least I hope so…..

  167. 167 dave, cleveland, oh
    October 6, 2008 at 19:01

    Hey there,
    I have a 15 year old boy and a 13 year old girl. My son and his friends have occasional disagreements, but they are forgotten quickly and the boys move on. With my daughter and her peers, the level of casual cruelty and toxic meaness is shocking. Young teen girls are so much more vicious than young teen boys that they seem to be wired differently. I’ve discussed this with other parents, and it seems pretty universal. So, where does it come from?

  168. 168 Jonelle in Los Angeles
    October 6, 2008 at 19:02

    My 15 & 13 year old sons and I were watching the VP debate together last week. My 15 year old (a McCain backer) was shocked that Palin did not appear to understand Article 1 of the US Constitution and could not understand how Palin could be the next VP or possibly the next President.

  169. 169 Dan
    October 6, 2008 at 19:02

    @rawpoliticsjamaicastyle.wordpress.com
    I hardly remember any protests supporting Saudi women. In any event the protests of women in the US against Saudi abuses are not heard in Saudi Arabia. Those women keep quiet. They debase themselves.

  170. 170 Warren in Beaverton, OR USA
    October 6, 2008 at 19:03

    Supporting Sarah Palin is not the same as supporting other women. Some of her ideas are anit-women’s liberation. Also, if she makes it to president and isn’t qualified, she could discredit the idea of another woman for president for a long time to come.

  171. 171 dcattorney
    October 6, 2008 at 19:03

    I’m so sick of the rape kit lie. NO women were billed – the insurance company (if there was one) was billed. Victim advocates cannot remember any woman there paying any fee. There is no evidence that this was ever supported by Mayor Palin. Politifact.com

    Women are not our own worst enemies. The patriarchy is our worst enemy in the sense that that is what keeps us second class citizens. The blatant vile sexism we saw in the US Dem primary, in support of the patriarchy, is the enemy; unfortunatley, some women do buy in to it, or at least cannot find the courage to speak out against it. To counter this horrible misogyny – which is every bit as noxious as racism – we need more women in ALL branches of the US government – progressive, moderate and conservative. That is one huge reason to support McCain/Palin.

  172. 172 Julie
    October 6, 2008 at 19:03

    I have observed it so often in my career that women in executive positions will help you only if to the extent that you are not a real threat to them. This behavior comes in the form of not supporting you when you are really in trouble, putting down your ideas except when they take your ideas and claim them as their own instead of giving you credit, etc. This behavior occurs it seems when these executives are feeling threatened, and since many ladder-climbing women are fueled by being perceived as “the best”, it’s not a surprise that they would keep subordinate women in their place. This is commonly understood by women, and actually men, in silicon valley. So sad, but so true.

    Times when I have seen high ranking women help is when they are mentoring someone who is either “not on the same ladder”, or so far down that they are not a threat.

  173. 173 Tim in Portland Oregon,USA
    October 6, 2008 at 19:04

    While this subject is certainly important and merits hours of discussion, I’m afraid Sarah Palin and her handlers fed this quote to the media simply for it’s divisive and distracting nature. Divide and conquer is an age-old tactic; will it work for the Republicans?

  174. 174 Alita
    October 6, 2008 at 19:05

    This women, Sarah Palin, is not qualified to be the Vice President of the United States. Woman or man, the qualifications are what count. I believe it would be a HUGE disaster for the WORLD if she became a part of the ruling team of the United States.

  175. 175 Bob in Bend, Oregon, USA
    October 6, 2008 at 19:05

    I am a long time male feminist advocate. Men, as well as women, should support any woman when it comes to sexist discrimination and equal rights and protection. This does not extend to supporting political views I disagree with. Using the Albright quote is a “red herring.”
    The fundamental issue in this election is regulation vs no regulation; public laws supporting equal rights, equal pay, and heath care for all vs privatization and “free market” desisions.

  176. 176 Lauren in OR
    October 6, 2008 at 19:06

    She’s like “Caribou Barbie” – but she is not that intelligent.

    It’s frustrating when people are popular for high school reasons.

    This is important – nothing is more serious.

  177. 177 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 19:07

    @ Jonelle

    No worries. Biden didn’t understand Article I either. He thought it described the executive powers, when it in fact lays out the legislative branch of the government.

  178. 178 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 19:09

    @ Jens

    Not according to the law it is. Perhaps Brett would like to tell his story again? The law gives all the power the the woman, the man has no say, yet is expected to pay child support if she choses not to abort. That’s having your cake and eating it too.

  179. 179 Sook-yee from Singapore
    October 6, 2008 at 19:10

    We should vote for the one with substance not just cause she’s of your sex.

  180. 180 Richard from Trinidad
    October 6, 2008 at 19:10

    I think that women who are in power they are the ones who you will find not willing to be helpful or supportive. Thank god for mother teresa.

  181. 181 Kelsie in Houston
    October 6, 2008 at 19:11

    @Steve:
    Mr Biden referred to Article I in the context of the vice president’s role in the government, first described in the Constitution in Article I, Section 3: “The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided.” And I missed Mrs Palin’s statement vis-á-vis Article I, apparently.

  182. 182 Kevin, Trinidad
    October 6, 2008 at 19:12

    I hate this question! Women don’t succumb to these provokers who want a “cat fight”. Use this to break the stereotype, show women can work together.

  183. 183 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 19:16

    @ Kelsie

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/index.html

    BIDEN: Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we’ve had probably in American history. The idea he doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.

    Article I lays out the LEGISLATIVE branch of the government.

  184. 184 Dan
    October 6, 2008 at 19:18

    @Alita
    You make such a strong declarative statement but you offer no evidence or facts.
    So is this an opinion and if so based upon what?

  185. 185 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 19:18

    steve,

    it migh be the law, but partners talk to one anothr, usually. this is at least my experiance. why be married when you do not talk togther and make discisions.

    if you get a woman pregnant the that was your “bad discissios”. remember you are an advocate of not making bad discissions.

  186. 186 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 19:19

    @ Jens

    Tell that to Brett. He didn’t get any say.

  187. October 6, 2008 at 19:20

    New Brunswick, Shaun – the day Obama becomes president. Hopefully the day Alaska starts the campaign to get rid of Palin.

  188. 188 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 19:21

    steve,

    that is very sad indeed.

  189. 189 Najib in Kenya
    October 6, 2008 at 19:21

    In my country the tradition is women are activists but cannot be leader.

  190. 190 Tom D Ford
    October 6, 2008 at 19:21

    McCain picked Palin as just “Boobs to attract the Bubbas”.

    Women deserve better representation than that..

  191. 191 Kelsie in Houston
    October 6, 2008 at 19:22

    Steve:
    “Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States”–that is precisely what it does: the Vice President is the President of the Senate. Yes, it details the legislative branch of government–the Vice President’s role is a part of that legislative branch, as President of the Senate.

    Article II, at no point, lays out a statement akin to: “The Vice President shall–“, as Article I, Section 3 does: “The Vice President of the United States shall be the President of the Senate…” I sense that Mr Biden is referring to the perception that Mr Cheney has played an almost co-equal role with Mr Bush in formulating executive policy and action. The point Mr Biden is making is quite simple: the VP’s role, aside from his/her place in the succession, is to preside over the Senate.

  192. 192 Nii Moi, Ghana
    October 6, 2008 at 19:22

    There’s nowhere in the bible the republicans believe in that states that a place is reserved for women who don’t support other women.

  193. 193 Frank in Italy
    October 6, 2008 at 19:23

    Whether women should support women? Analysts say McCain has taken a big gamble in picking Sarah Palin who has no experience in national politics !!

  194. October 6, 2008 at 19:24

    I believe in a woman’s right to control her body, but not the body of another person, including one who might need to occupy her uterus for a while due to risks that the woman herself has chosen to take. Except in cases of rape or sexual abuse, a woman or a girl who has become pregnant has taken a calculated risk in having sex. Were it I (a woman who spends a substantial part of each working week counseling and providing birth control to other women) finding myself pregnant, I would say to myself, “I knew there was a 1% risk of failure with this method; if I find myself pregnant I owe this child some basic rights, too”. Sex without risk is not a birthright.

    I am also appalled that abortion seems to be the litmus test for whether you are pro-woman as a politician. By the way, I tend to vote Democrat, believing that the Republicans’ agenda tends to cost more lives in other arenas, but I hold my nose at my own party’s refusal to consider that the taking of life before birth might in any case be wrong. At least Obama and Clinton have been giving a little lip service to the tragedy abortion can represent. As for Sarah Palin, I simply don’t think she could serve capably as president. To support a woman who can’t do the job just because she’s female insults our sex, says we have no discernment, no hope for the real thing.

  195. 195 Anon
    October 6, 2008 at 19:24

    In Nigeria a female senator was highly castigated by the women folk for introducing a bill to curb indecent dressing of females.

  196. 196 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 19:25

    @ Kelsie read the portion of the transcript I quoted. Yes, the power of the VP is listed in Article I, but article I lays out the LEGISLATIVE branch. Biden said the VP was “executive” based upon basically Article I, article II is the executive branch. He got it wrong, and he’s a lawyer.
    “The idea he doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the Executive Branch.”

    Article I is the legislative branch. Biden was wrong.

  197. 197 Michael from Abuja
    October 6, 2008 at 19:26

    I advocate gender sensitivity. Women, help themselves, need special asistance, protection and orientation. Their psychological needs vary somehow from men’s. Nature imbured into them more delicate functions. The dictate of the male dominated social order often doesn’t help women.

  198. 198 Chijoke in Owerri, Nigeria
    October 6, 2008 at 19:27

    Sarah Palin is too naive for the presìdency. She is absolutely wrong. Merit first!

  199. 199 David in Kampala
    October 6, 2008 at 19:27

    Women need to stand up to be counted behind Sarah Palin, and save America. I don’t trust Obama given his religious background and his Iraq plan.

  200. 200 Kelsie in Houston
    October 6, 2008 at 19:28

    @Steve:
    Point taken–he nuanced his statement wrong; about 1/3d to 1/2 is right, until the word executive starts cropping up–and he’s a lawyer. Aren’t lawyers known for their attention to nuances?

  201. 201 viola
    October 6, 2008 at 19:29

    You know what? Wisdom is where you find it. If Sarah Palin read a saying on a coffee cup and thought it wise enough to bring into the presidential campaign, so what? There are lots of people who wouldn’t even notice because they don’t read much of anything, not even their coffee cups.

    Help? Support? How many people trying to remember a quote by someone gets it exactly right?

    Apparently, a lot of people believe that if they call Sarah Palin stupid often enough, it will make it true. Good luck on that one.

  202. 202 steve
    October 6, 2008 at 19:31

    @ Kelsie

    That’s why I thought it important. Sure, lawyers are humans and can make mistakes, but something like that, I honestly dont know how he could have said it. The reason why I mentioned it now was that some other commentor said that she couldn’t believe Palin didn’t know what Article I really was, when really Biden was the one who made the mistake, especially being a lawyer.

    Biden is pretty sloppy on things. Lots of gaffes, and the FDR/TV thing in 1929 was pretty bad, though the Article I thing, had he been a non lawyer, wouldn’t have been that big of a deal, he was right that the power was contained in the article, but not right about what the article actually was, and that’s really bad when a lawyer does that.

  203. 203 Kelsie in Houston
    October 6, 2008 at 19:35

    @Steve and the original commentor:
    I completely missed Mrs Palin’s reference to Article I, and thought I was watching the debate closely. I suppose he “got away” with it because it was really Mrs Palin’s evening to “prove herself,” so to speak–I do remember jumping up right after he uttered that sentence to grab a copy of the Constitution, but dismissed it out-of-hand after coming to the bit about the VP’s role in the Senate… They both need to tighten up their rhetoric–it’s crunch time, now.

  204. 204 E.Page
    October 6, 2008 at 19:41

    Although I do not agree with Sarah Palin her courage to run is important to feminism. Ironically, after watching the debate bet. Sarah Palin and Joe Biden, my 15 year old daughter said “You know, I think I will run for Governor of California, someday. Why not?” This was out of the mouths of babes or the unconscious. I would bet that many women, of all ages, who watched a woman of Sarah Palin’s “caliber” survive the debate, will now have the guts to enter politics.
    So the glass might be half filled.

  205. 205 Julie
    October 6, 2008 at 19:42

    Julie from the USA here, and I am a former Democrat. If my former party cared so much about women’s issues, they would not have manipulated the primaries to select Barak Obama as their candidate of choice and would have respected the historical process and allowed Hillary Clinton to battle Obama on the convention floor just like every male candidate before her. In addition, 90% of African Americans are voting for Barak Obama because they want to see a black president, so why is that acceptable but not acceptable for women to support Sarah Palin because she is a woman?

  206. 206 Margaret
    October 6, 2008 at 19:43

    Many times Sara Palin simplifies what she meant to say and the statement becomes absurd. That all women should support all women is such a statement. Look at it this way, what if I said “All men should support all men.”

    Rather if women want to be treated with the same respect as men, they need to be discerning and stand for those things they think are important regardless of the sex of anyone.

    Sara is being a cheerleader here, perhaps something she learned as a “Hockey Mom” but politics is not the same kind of game, and cheer leading is somewhat inappropriate.

  207. 207 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 19:44

    steve,

    at least binden is able quote the article, albiet not completly correct, whereas palin does not even know it exists

  208. 208 Gail
    October 6, 2008 at 19:45

    I do not necessarily agree with Gov. Palin’s statement, but I think each women who accomplishes such a feat as being asked to be on the ticket as the running mate for the President of the USA has a unique opportunity to encourage other women to elevate their own expectations for such a high office. I am in the process of making my own decision about who to vote for, and the idea of a women in this office is intriguing and exciting. However, just because Gov. Palin is a women does not seal-up my vote for her. I look at the opposition on the democratic ticket and would not vote for the bi-racial (African American) candidate just because he is black. Neither the gender issue nor the racial issue is legitimate in itself.

  209. 209 Helen
    October 6, 2008 at 19:46

    Abortion allows women to participate in their role of being a worthless sex object for males.It devalues her worth as a person worthy of love and respect.She is a willing victim perpetuating her own victimization.

  210. 210 Anon
    October 6, 2008 at 19:46

    The underlying probem here is; Palin has aroused the Republican and Conservative bases. This attack on Sarah is because of jealosy and that she is a Republican.

  211. 211 Peter, Accra
    October 6, 2008 at 19:47

    She quoted a doctrine she believes in. She needs the women behind her, she should solicit their support.

  212. 212 Jerri
    October 6, 2008 at 19:52

    Assuming that Rose was referring to the fact that this question is REALLY creating a diversion from the real issues, I AGREE!!!!! The thing that annoys me about your program,is the way you phrase a question that paints such a broad stroke about an issue, or totally evades the important substance of an issue at all. You had a lively debate but basically it seemed that you were trying to drive the intelligent women off the subject of the substantive issues that Sara Palin stands for. SO ANNOYING and unfortunately posed from a males perspective, even if a woman on your staff thought it up.

  213. 213 Dan
    October 6, 2008 at 20:01

    @Julie
    You have stated the key questions. Thank You!!!
    I wish politicians would answer them.

  214. 214 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 20:03

    helen,

    even in case of incest and rape?

  215. 215 Jens
    October 6, 2008 at 20:04

    julie in america,

    they manipulated the vote……seriouse unproven allegations here, or are we just another bitter loser.

  216. October 6, 2008 at 20:46

    @ Will,

    Re above, I was suggesting that perhaps you are correct after all, Palin does need to continue this track she is on. That way, she will alienate the voters more, by not stopping to think through what she is actually trying to say. For surely, not alot of thought went into that comment!

    @ Ros,

    Great show! I rather enjoyed the discussion with the panel! Many thanks!

  217. 217 L. Walker
    October 6, 2008 at 21:45

    wait wait wait… so women who get to the top have to be nice and friendly and helpful…. but what about men that get to the top…?? is the same expected of them??

    i think not.

    take the execs of lehman brothers making over 300 million over their careers and taking home millions while the company fell as an example… men are expected to be nasty, greedy, filthy human beings, but there’s this gloss over women that they shouldn’t act the same way.
    humans are humans. there are good and bad people regardless of gender.

    calling women catty and bitches is just another way of removing them from an aggressive stance when it comes to gaining wealth and personal power. they called clinton ‘catty’ when she attacked, but when mccain attacks he’s lauded and called strong.

    i, however agree with the caller (rose?) who listed the other issues that sarah palin is distracting from… there are better things to be talking about.

  218. October 6, 2008 at 22:49

    Women loathe each other with passion for sure.

  219. 219 Jack Hughes
    October 7, 2008 at 00:03

    My wife went for diversity training last year.

    One other delegate on the course nearly brought the whole session to a standstill with his question:

    Does diversity mean we all have to think the same way ?

  220. 220 Roberto
    October 7, 2008 at 00:24

    RE “” McCain picked Palin as just “Boobs to attract the Bubbas”.Women deserve better representation than that. “”
    ———————————————————————————————————-

    ———- Seems like you’ve come face to face with the enemy, and she is boobies.

    It don’t get more representative than that. Got zoom control with the special “softwear” in that setup Tommy?

  221. 221 Kevlaur
    October 7, 2008 at 00:55

    Katharina said:
    “I find it a bit appalling to assume that just because you put a woman up for election, all women automatically have to vote for her out of gender loyalty. There’s still the question of whether the candidate stands for the same things as I do, and if the answer is “not”, then he or she will not get my support, no matter what.”

    Aren’t some people assuming black people will vote for B. Hussein Obama because he is black? Isn’t _he_ counting on it? And, if they don’t, they are house slaves (to use a nicer term). Or if whites, in general, don’t vote for him they are racist?

    I’m not voting for Hussein Obama because he lacks experience. A community organizer and senator with 140-some odd days in the senate does not have the experience to run they country.

    By the way, I’d vote for Thomas Sowell or JC Watts in a HEARTBEAT if they were running.

  222. 222 Pradeepta, Orissa, India
    October 7, 2008 at 03:14

    yea, to a lot extent i subscribe to this view point, because women are not only the cause of their own misery due to being non-sympathetic of the problems faced by their own folks.They rather feel envy to the progress of their sex. In India most of the dowry cases involve the active participation of mother-inlaws and sister-laws in materialisation of the crime.That apart there are quite a few women who really fell the pain of their sexes when they go to a higher social and economic starta. They rather become a pupet in the hands of their male counterparts. so in a situation like this. it really become a ardous task to worl for women emancipation .

  223. 223 parth guragain,nepal
    October 7, 2008 at 05:29

    @pradeepta
    i agree with you to certain extent and disagree to certain extent.i want to give example of nepal.first what i wnt to say is in western part of nepal during girls first menstral cycle when she is at tender age of 12-13,she is forced to stay at place where cattles are kept.during these period she is not allowed to see and talks with males.this ritual is strictly observed by there mothers.but ther is some kind of ignorance attached to it.but what i see must annowing is .south asia have see many females leaders who have become primeminister and president ie in india(indira),pakistan(banijir),bangladesh(hasina),srilanka.these leaders during time of election campaign try to potray themselves as obident daughter,loving wife and devoted housewife.these are image of women loved by males.so until and unless they focus mainly on women issue their problem can’t be solved .so so they should not talk of these problem only they should work forward to solve these problem .if women unite in these issue they are not their own enemy and i think that women are starting to realise these things.

  224. 224 DAVID HIGGS. Ireland
    October 7, 2008 at 09:58

    God help America and the world if Sarah Palin gets into power at the next election. America is reeling from Bushes admin. The analogy of Nero fiddling while Rome burned comes to mind. America needs another chance with the rest of the world.I believe that only Obama can bring this. Americans must realize how unpopular Bush has made America. I know of very few people that now have any good feelings for what was once a great country.
    David Higgs
    Wicklow
    Ireland

  225. October 7, 2008 at 10:10

    God help America and the world if Sarah Palin gets into power at the next election. America is reeling from Bushes admin. The analogy of Nero fiddling while Rome burned comes to mind. America needs another chance with the rest of the world.I believe that only Obama can bring this. Americans must realize how unpopular Bush has made America. I know of very few people that now have any good feelings for what was once a great country.
    David Higgs
    Wicklow
    Ireland

  226. 226 Kevlaur
    October 7, 2008 at 10:49

    Hey David… you say “I know of very few people that now have any good feelings for what was once a great country.” Perhaps it is the crowd you are hanging out with.

  227. 227 Jennifer
    October 7, 2008 at 16:29

    I think women have an obligation to support other women to a certain extent. It goes without saying that every women is not identical but I definitely relate to Sarah Palin more than I do Biden.

    As for Sarah Palin reinforcing the main obstacles that prevent women from improving their lives, it’s in how you look at it. On one hand, she is conservative in her views but it’s by choice. If you look at her accomplishments, you will see that she has achieved many goals that I consider accomplishments for all women. I think that deserves acknowledgment even if someone doesn’t want her elected.

    People will choose who to vote for by their own set of priorities. Some people will like Biden and some will like Palin. There will be people who vote for her because they believe her to be intelligent, genuine, see her as a good mother, mother of a disabled child, hunter, whatever links them to her in a way that they feel she would look out for their best interest.

  228. 228 rawpoliticsjamaicastyle
    October 7, 2008 at 17:04

    @ Jennifer:

    I find your voice a refreshing counter to the largely unpopular review of Palin in this forum, myself included. Your point in relation to choice is insightful, in terms of implicitly addressing one of the unspoken themes in this discussion – the extent to which women are able to choose, whether in terms of the suffrage right at the political level or in their own personal spheres. Of interests to me is what are these accomplishments to which you make reference in relation to Palin’s political career as being in the best interests of women (whoever they are)?

  229. 229 Ayo
    October 7, 2008 at 17:51

    After thinking about Sarah Palin, I keep thinking to myself, perhaps women cant be leaders, because look at this woman, who uses falsehoods and emotion to make her points across, instead of reason and logic. But I have to think again and look at Hillary Clinton and say no, there are intelligent women out there. I totally dislike this woman, Sarah Palin. Initially I sort of liked her, but now I can almost say I hate her. the things she says, the way she behaves, she gives women a bad name. she makes us look like idiot barbies, with playdoh for brains. I am a woman, but I could never support a woman like her. Never. I would prefer another bush term, actually several other bush terms if possible than vote for this sorry excuse for a candidate. ahhh, I feel so disgraced by her.

  230. 230 BrianP Austin, TX
    October 7, 2008 at 17:59

    Female fighters: We won’t stand for male dominance!

    From http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/10/06/iraq.pkk/index.html:

    I just found another case of feminist logic which just doesn’t work:

    “We want a natural life, a society that revolves around women — one where women and men are equal”

    The moon revolving around the Earth shows a master vs. slave relationship; where the Earth goes, the moon follows. The concepts of master/slave and equality are at opposite ends of the spectrum and she wants both.

    Is it any wonder that she didn’t go into Science where logic is a prerequisite?

    BrianP

  231. 231 rawpoliticsjamaicastyle
    October 7, 2008 at 19:11

    @ Ayo,

    I feel your pain. Palin is a very bad example of women leading effectively. She seems to give little, if any thought, to what she says and how such thoughts may be construed. Plus, she resorts to name calling and mud slinging – a class case of what we in Jamaica call “tracing” (cussing!). One could only hope for more in a potential leader of the ‘greatest nation on earth’.

    @ BrianP,

    Could clarify your position above? I seem to have misunderstood your meaning. Are you saying that wanting a ‘natural’ life is at variance with wanting equality? Or that women are not to want this? And, how does that relate to your remarks about the relationship between the Earth and the moon? Just curious.

  232. 232 Jennifer
    October 7, 2008 at 19:16

    @ Rawpolitics

    Many people who are concerned about Sarah Palin’s political affiliation are those who believe that Republicans (conservatives) want to take away the personal rights of people. That is not true.

    Sarah Palin belongs to an organization called Feminists for Life which is pro-life. Some people value the right of a woman to choose to have an abortion if she wants to. I don’t agree with that unless the life of the mother is at risk. I think instead of seeing an unborn baby as a problem to be dealt with there should be focus on what brought the mother to the decision that abortion is the best (only?) option for her. Sarah Palin is pro-contraception and does believe that sex education should be discussed in schools with encouragement of abstinence but also birth control options discussed. If you look at some of the the legislature that has been passed during SP’s time in office you see that she does not just use her position to further her own personal agenda.

    As for goals that SP has achieved-those depend on who you ask because what I consider to be an achievement someone else may not. You can view this website for more information about her….http://www.state.ak.us/ It has lots of different things there including budget info, performance results with regards to specific departments objectives and etc.

  233. 233 rawpoliticsjamaicastyle
    October 7, 2008 at 19:49

    Thanks, Jennifer.

    I agree. Abortions should not be used as a form of birth control. As a Catholic, my faith tells me that all life is sacred and that we should treat with sexuality with a little more care. I am always concerned when the debate is reduced to ‘either or’ options. Either the mother or the child. While these may well be the case in some instances it is not so for all. That kind of reasoning is too reductionist.

    I rarely give my views on the matter, as I feel that a woman should reserve the right. However, these rights should be treated with a great deal of responsibility, which sometimes is not demonstrated in the mainstream conceptualisation of that debate.

    On other matters, however, I feel that Palin does not reflect the public and political savvy that might make her more acceptable to constituents. She says whatever she wants, whenever and, rarely ever, does she seem very informed. The comments about associating with terrorists has not earned her any plusses in my book either.

    In addition, comments about Obama’s lack of experience could reasonably be said about her as well McCain. More would have to be demanded of any leader of the ‘Free World’ than Palin has demonstrated.

    That being said, I will most certainly review the information at the website you suggested. Thanks.

  234. 234 Jennifer
    October 7, 2008 at 21:11

    @ Rawpolitics

    I am glad that you will check out the link I provided. I think discussing experience is very important because at this time when there is alot of uncertainty here we need a president who has as much as possible. I have noticed many times that when I discuss that issue with people I know they pit Obama against Palin with regards to experience. I think that is not appropriate seeing as she is the VP elect; not President elect. Since SP is a Governor, her role is to act as a President but on a state level whereas Obama, being a senator, is one of two people elected to represent the people of his home state and make and vote on laws. As Governor, SP does have executive experience that would be an asset if McCain where elected.

    In my opinion, the media has made a spectacle of SP at every opportunity to the point where I really don’t think they are reporting objectively. I think there are many people who do relate to her as a person. Many people have made comments about her cheerful attitude, winking, accent, etc but these are things that people do like. She, along with the others, are all in a fishbowl and will make mistakes. The media is going to look for them and ensure that everyone knows about them. After SP accepted the nomination many said that she was too passive and controlled by McCain. Now that she is speaking out about certain things, like Obama’s connections with “terrorists” like William Ayers we are hearing that their campaign is trying to sidetrack voters from issues of substance. I think it is important to consider all information. I believe that we are the friend we keep. The difference between the way Obama goes about attacking/discrediting and the way McCain/Palin do is that Obama has his supporters do it whereas McCain/Palin make the statements themselves.

    🙂

  235. 235 BrianP Austin, TX
    October 7, 2008 at 21:36

    rawpoliticsjamaicastyle October 7, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    RPJS,
    You are apparently unfamiliar with the concept of revolving around.

    From dictionary.com
    revolve around
    verb
    1. center upon; “Her entire attention centered on her children”; “Our day revolved around our work” [syn: focus on]
    2. move around in a circular motion; “The Earth revolves around the Sun”

    She wants society to focus on only half of the population which logically implies men would not be focused upon. How can those not being focused on be equal to those whom society is centered upon?

    Doesn’t it just gall you that sexism pervades even the dictionary as it implies that a mother has no other function than to take care of kids?

    Please watch more Star Trek.

    BrianP

    >@ BrianP,
    >Could clarify your position above? I seem to have misunderstood your meaning. >Are you saying that wanting a ‘natural’ life is at variance with wanting equality? Or >that women are not to want this? And, how does that relate to your remarks about >the relationship between the Earth and the moon? Just curious.

  236. 236 rawpoliticsjamaicastyle
    October 7, 2008 at 22:27

    @ Jennifer,

    Thanks for your interventions. Much appreciated.

    Just one note in terms of the criticisms of Palin. You might appreciate that notwitstanding what you have said above that, part of the intensity of the criticisms against her is due to the very real possibility that she might become President should McCain win in November and his health gives out on him. In that regard, it is as if the RNC has two likely candidates for the post of President. More than could be said for the Democrats, no?

    @ BrianP:

    It is less about my not knowing the meaning of the word revolve and more about its connections in terms of this discussion and your own interventions. How is this related to Palin’s remarks about a special place being reserved in Hell for those women who do not support other women, as it relates to her own candidacy for the VP slot on McCain’s ticket?

  237. 237 Jennifer
    October 7, 2008 at 23:31

    @Rawpolitics

    I think that both Democrats and Republicans should consider each VP pick with the possibility that they may become our next President. John McCain has had health issues however, he also has access to medical care and takes precautions with his health I am sure. I think it is good to remember that people pass away every day unexpectedly. It’s just another thing to consider when deciding who to vote for!

  238. 238 Dennis@OCC
    October 12, 2008 at 19:34

    I think that sometimes, the “women” are their own enemies on some cases….

    But in general—a women also has to step up for own rights!

    Dennis


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