House votes down bail-out package!

What will this mean for the global economy?
This has been discussed on WHYS over the last few weeks and now the lower house of the US Congress votes down a $700bn (£380bn) plan to bail out Wall Street, as global shares fall.

181 Responses to “House votes down bail-out package!”

  1. 1 Scott (M)
    September 29, 2008 at 20:30

    GOOD! Let it all fall apart. It’s not working anyway. We’ve all had a good run. It’s time to rebuild. Lets hit bottom together and look good doing it.

  2. 2 Kelsie in Houston
    September 29, 2008 at 20:32

    Serious consequences–the numbers on MarketWatch indicate a drop of over 710 points on the DJIA.

  3. 3 Jessica in NYC
    September 29, 2008 at 20:35

    The tension in NYC is palpable.

    It’s a good thing congress said it is not going to adjourn.

  4. 4 Steve
    September 29, 2008 at 20:38

    Credit market is frozen, that’s the source that employers get credit from to pay employees. People are panicking about whether they’ll get paid tonight as tomorrow is a a payday.

  5. September 29, 2008 at 20:40


    The pubs voted against because Pelosi had a go at Bush LOL

  6. 8 Daniel in Stillwater, OK
    September 29, 2008 at 20:42

    The most satisfying and all encompassing example of poetic justice Our Planet Earth has seen since the divide and fall of the Roman Empire. Greed has finally come full circle for these men and women. And as my father used to say, “You’ve made your bed. Now, sleep in it.”

    As an American I am taking this opportunity to thank my government. Job well done for the first time in 8 years.

  7. 9 steve
    September 29, 2008 at 20:43

    You people won’t be saying job well done if you’re not getting a pay check!

  8. 10 Kelsie in Houston
    September 29, 2008 at 20:43

    @Steve re link:
    That’s probably the most frightening thing I’ve seen come out of this afternoon so far…

  9. 11 Jennifer
    September 29, 2008 at 20:44

    We are up a creek without a paddle.

  10. 12 Kelsie in Houston
    September 29, 2008 at 20:46

    Marketwatch headline: “Dow free-falls.”

    A very tiny bit of silver lining: numbers are rebounding just slightly.

    A Congressional adjournment would be the absolute height of irresponsibility…

  11. 14 Kelsie in Houston
    September 29, 2008 at 20:47

    Forget recession: according to USA Today, a recent poll says 1/3d of those asked believe the U.S. is in a depression:

  12. 15 Jessica in NYC
    September 29, 2008 at 20:48

    @ Kelsie
    OMG! It is certainly starting to feel that way in NYC!

    OMG! Has it really come to this?

    @ Jennifer
    Up the creek with no paddle and a hole in the boat!

  13. 16 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 20:50

    well, this does not look good for me to get a new job, and with goverment funding down, i will be cooking grass soup.

  14. 17 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 20:55


    well let’s steer the boat with our bare hands to the edge of the creek and hold on to some branches. we might get a wet bum, but we could make a fire and build a wee shack to weather the storm. then we go and find a BUSH and pee on him…….just like he did with us.

    i have some gum with me, maybe we could fill the hole

  15. 18 Kelsie in Houston
    September 29, 2008 at 20:57

    I don’t like the plan, make no mistake, but it was better than the Congress’ typical strength: masterly inaction. World Service had a commentator on who expected the next vote/debate by next Thursday. Has anyone heard what comes next in the House?

  16. 19 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 20:57

    go to cnn.com and look at the picture of bush. i speaks a thousand words…..aren’t his eyes all red. he is either possessed or he is crying that his last attempt of raping the american people has failed

  17. 20 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 21:00

    Deep sigh. The proverbial is going to hit the fan.

  18. 21 Kelsie in Houston
    September 29, 2008 at 21:01

    1600: closing bell.

  19. 22 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 21:01

    while the economy goes to the crapper, palin orders a cheessteak and brabbels like a fool. PLEASE SOMETBODY TELL THIS WOMAN TO GO BACK TO HER HUNTING-SHAKE AND POP-OUT ANOTHER BABY, or do what ever she wants to, BUT do not let her even close to the oval office.

    Palin’s apparent disagreement with McCain’s position on Pakistan came as the Alaska governor was picking up a couple of cheesesteaks at Tony Luke’s in South Philadelphia. She was approached by a man wearing a Temple University t-shirt, who later identified himself as Michael Rovito.
    “How about the Pakistan situation?” Rovito asked. “What’s your thoughts about that.”

    “In Pakistan?” Palin responded.

    “What’s going on over there, like Waziristan?”

    “It’s working with Zardari to make sure that we’re all working together to stop the guys from coming in over the border,” Palin said. “And we’ll go from there.”

    “Waziristan is blowing up,” Rovito replied.

    “Yeah, it is,” Palin said. “And the economy there is blowing up, too.”

    “So we do cross-border, like from Afghanistan to Pakistan, you think?” Rovito asked.

    “If that’s what we have to do stop the terrorists from coming any further in, absolutely, we should,” Palin said.

  20. 23 Jessica in NYC
    September 29, 2008 at 21:07

    The bell closing bell now we wait 30-60 minutes to see [—] happened….

    I went out for a walk during lunch and the street were almost silent in one of the busiest part of Manhattan. It was eerie, no tourist to trip over or ask me for directions.

  21. 25 David in Florda
    September 29, 2008 at 21:13

    Market down over 600 points and to add the tension on Wall Street unemployment data comes this week. If that shows more declines it will cause even further drops.
    I think the real pain is yet to come.

  22. 26 Kelsie in Houston
    September 29, 2008 at 21:14

    – 770…still looking for the bottom.

  23. 28 Kelsie in Houston
    September 29, 2008 at 21:18

    Free (fall) market…

  24. September 29, 2008 at 21:18


    McCain has already said that it’s all Obama’s fault. LOL

  25. 30 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 21:18

    where is my golden parachut?

  26. September 29, 2008 at 21:19


    Thursday will be fun 😀

  27. 32 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 21:20

    come to think of it.

    we should have a collection to buy lot’s of golden parachuts, which we then attch at the bollocks of the failed ceos, before we push them of the empire state building. all thes big wigs hanging in the fetal position gliding down would be priceless…

  28. 33 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 21:20


    I can see Wall St. from where I live.

  29. 34 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 21:22


    i hope, but i am sure the republicans will have a bug in her ear or a hugh telepromter in the room.

    all i can hope for is that she is even to dumb to follow the bug in the ear

  30. 36 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 21:25

    i am watching my 401K disappear……

  31. September 29, 2008 at 21:25

    You must be an unbelievably top notch A+ economist, Julie.

    Or would that just be Palin? 😕

  32. 38 Kelsie in Houston
    September 29, 2008 at 21:26

    It appears to have stopped at 777. Marketwatch lead: “Stocks floored.”

  33. 39 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 21:27

    look on the bright side, oil is only 96.44 a barrel

  34. September 29, 2008 at 21:28

    Marketwatch lead: “Stocks floored.”

    Until tomorrow. 😉

  35. 41 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 21:29


    I’m far sighted.

  36. 42 Jessica in NYC
    September 29, 2008 at 21:29

    Free (fall) market… are we there [at the bottom] yet? -777 phew…

    @ Will
    Yeah, I’m sure McChump did, what else is he good add but scare tactics.

    @ Julie P
    LOL– thanks I needed that. “I can see wall street from where I live.”

  37. 43 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 21:30


    They could be giving oil away at this point, none of the gas made from it will ever reach Atlanta anyway. Gas is for everyone else.

  38. 44 Thomas Murray
    September 29, 2008 at 21:31

    The Republicans are dragging their feet because their phone traffic and e-mail are said to be running 300 to 1 against.

    But too many pensions and retirement funds are at risk in the market. As is typical with any legislation in Congress, it’ll be “send back to committee” and refined.

    This is serious stuff. I just hope the US gets a bargain out of it.

    Atremble in Louisville, Kentucky, US.

  39. 45 Anthony
    September 29, 2008 at 21:32

    My sister works at a French Restaurant where those a lot of wall street traders go, and she said EVERYONE is on blackberry’s and look frantic and upset, with a little bit of sad.

    -Anthony, LA, CA

    P.S. Thanks for the recomendation (that Dawkins book). I’ll have to give it a good read 🙂

  40. 46 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 21:33


    she also see’s the sea, which qualifies julie p to be the commander of the naval forces.

    i do fly regularly, so i claim the airforce. will what do you want? i think we should give you the fda, since you occasionaly take aspirin (probably). steve is definatly going to be the guy running the justice department. jess should get the finace department since she is from NY and brett heck let him have the army he lives close to DC and that is qualification enough. i think we should line-up palin for the forgein minister, and buy her a realy go pair of magnifying glasses, so that she can keep russia in check and let us know when the giant putin head is going to rear it’s head over alaskan air space

  41. 48 Kelsie in Houston
    September 29, 2008 at 21:38

    Wow. Congress just crossed the proverbial Rubicon…

  42. 49 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 21:39


    I’m in! I can’t swim a stroke, but what the hey! Commander of the Navy it is!

  43. September 29, 2008 at 21:43

    FDA, Jens?

    I’ll take that! I won’t allow any new drugs until they are no more than 3 bucks each!

  44. 51 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 21:49

    julie will,

    heck we are up and running, and will has already formulated one of our potential policies. will, i am a scientists and i need funding, i am not sure the 3 buck rule is realy that good, phrma does spend a lot on research, but i am fully supportive of you cutting their advertisment budget, that makes a hugh chunck off and drugs could become cheaper, actually a lot cheaper, nearly 70% of any drug price is due to advertizing money

  45. 52 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 21:55

    had just some crazy wanting my e-mail so he can let me know how i can make hydrogen for my car from my tap water……..say hello to my little friend

  46. September 29, 2008 at 22:01

    Bush ‘disappointed’ at vote on deal

    How else should he have felt? excited? angry? mad?

    It’s fairly normal.

  47. September 29, 2008 at 22:09

    The FDA Spokesman said today that the Chairman of the FDA, Will Rhodes, has banned all advertising of drugs that need to be prescribed by a Dr from all forms of media with effect as of 12 midnight tonight.

    Further to that the FDA chairman went on to say that each prescription drug prescribed by any Dr will have a prescription charge (At the pharmacy) of $6.75 per item.

    20% of that charge will be reallocated to R&D of new drugs in the independent pharmaceutical market. This prescription charge will be reviewed on a yearly basis but cannot, if needed, be increased by more that the rate of inflation of the current year.

    That any better, Jens? 🙂

  48. 55 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 22:13


    the chief of staff of the airforce is happy to see that the head of the FDA has come up with responsible messure in the hopr to reduce the ever increasing medical costs and the exhuberant amount of money spend on cohersing customers to use and demand specific drugs.

    maybe i should be running something different than the airforce, since i really do not want to bomb things

  49. September 29, 2008 at 22:17


    Who is running for Prez and VP?

  50. 57 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 22:20


    Since you’re afraid to bomb things and I’m nearing menopause I’ll do the bombing. Will you be my VP? 😉

  51. 58 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 22:21


    not sure

  52. 59 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 22:23

    julie p,

    i am not afraid of bombing, i just don’t want to. ok i can do the VP job, i will watch putin’s head rear over alska…..

  53. 60 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 22:24

    can i have some really really expensive binoculars, coz i want to see putins head clearly

  54. September 29, 2008 at 22:30


    What about some very fetching Japanese spectacles?

  55. 62 Jessica in NYC
    September 29, 2008 at 22:33

    Excuse me Mr. FDA Spokesman Rhodes, the I as the Finance spokes woman I object to your ban on the grounds that my sector will not be able to make enormous profits to benefit the top few.

    …. Jens, this is soooo not gonna work for me. I quite. I’ll thinks Steve and I should swap. Let him handle this mess since his party messed it up. I’ll take Secretary of Defense. I’m be VERY good at this. 😛 Or Secretary of State, they are use a woman by now.

  56. 63 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 22:37


    yeeeesssssssssss, i want my kawasaki right on my face….sounds almost dirty. and i want a strange hairdo, and my beauty pagent video on youtube. i might need a boob job though. i already have a differentiating accent and i can say “eye-rack”, i have driven a snow machine and have been clay pidgeon-shooting. i even played hockey and do ski. i have never seen russia, but i have been to plenty diffrenet countries, which will actually disqualify me…

    i am actually much more of a suzuki person. check out the suzuki katana 1000 made in 1982, it is one of the most gorgeouse bikes made and i have one……and ride it

  57. 65 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 22:41


    i thought about swapping steve out, he is way over qualified as a lawyer. i thought he is a democrate, but just not like obama. you can be the secretary of defense. jeeze already the first cabinet re-shoveling.

    ok steve can be the minister of finace. that way we can root-out irresponsible behaviour of the masses and companies….

    anyone else want to swap?

  58. 66 Venessa
    September 29, 2008 at 22:43

    Jens ~ I thought we were running for Pres & VP…..We both have salacious histories right? 🙂

  59. 67 Venessa
    September 29, 2008 at 22:45

    Jens ~

    Steve should be finance. He’ll bring everyone’s outrageous spending in check. People will be forced to live within their means! hehehehe!

  60. September 29, 2008 at 22:45


    Is it me or is there a subliminal meaning to “eye-rack”? I mean – women have said for god knows how long that men eye their rack while talking to them -“Look at my face, please” sort of thing.

    I can see why American men are more inclined to like her now! 👿

  61. September 29, 2008 at 22:48


    I cannot agree with you wanting to spend salacious amounts of money to prop up the mega-stupendous-rolling in money rich. The ad ban stays! 😛

  62. 70 Jessica in NYC
    September 29, 2008 at 22:50


    Perfect! By the way, I need a congress to approve a bigger budget, I am going shopping Brown in India (American made ones cost too much) next week we have our eyes on pretty green tankers we’re taking to Georgia.


    Not my problem… Steve has to deal with it now.

  63. 72 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 22:54


    As Secretary of Earmarks I’ll give you what you need. I have my eye on some Belgian chocolate send those pretty tanks there.

  64. 73 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 22:57


    i am not sure about the quality of her rack. all i know it is god’s will that we are in eye-rack. she is too short for me to see her rack…….

    jess has just relinquished her position in finance is now at the helm of the war department.


    i am actually squeeky clean………………i have just made sure that there is not a trail of all the people I had to “let go off”……….

  65. 74 Amy
    September 29, 2008 at 22:58


    If you are now president, I’ll take over as head of the navy. I’m near the Pacific and my daughters can swim. Does that make me qualified?

  66. 75 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 23:03


    i like your initiative of out-sourcing the military. i am sure the forgein troops will be cheaper.

    i cannot allow you to invade Georgia, you must have heared that they are struggling with a gas-shortage and what good are they to us then, or did you mean that forgein country somewhere in europe? if yes , go invade it, or do whatever you like with it. i give it to you as present for having out-sourced the army.


    how many earmarks will you give jess, just so that we know how badly steve will complain about you two being irresponsible.

  67. 76 Robert
    September 29, 2008 at 23:05

    Not sure what this will mean for global economy but I expect that sometime in the next week there will be a flood conspiracy theorist shouting “we told you so” on the internet.

    Many have this theory that a secret group of bankers/industrialist etc have conspired to enlarge the debt of everybody with an endgame plan to engineer a de-stabilization in the market. This would cause lines of credit to disappear after which the surviving banks would foreclose on all property in American and Europe, thereby bringing it all within the hands of the said bankers.

    Whether that’s a believable theory or not they then go off on a tangent and say these bankers are green,child eating, mind controlling lizards from planet whatever. So has anybody seen any funny saucers in the sky recently? Should we be worried? (or is what they want us to think?).

  68. 77 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 23:05


    hell do you think this is the republican party where everybody can just get what ever they want. plus i am the dark prince running the thing, darn it. don’t make me angry or i have to shoot somebody in the face on my next hunting trip…..ok you can have the navy

  69. 78 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 23:08


    Since my parting of the seas skills are a little rusty, by the power invested in me you are hearby declared Commander of the Navy!

  70. 79 Venessa
    September 29, 2008 at 23:10

    Jens ~

    I’m going hunting with the inlaws this weekend, does that qualify me to shoot someone for you?

  71. 80 Amy
    September 29, 2008 at 23:11

    Great. Thanks Julie and Jens, I look great in blue 🙂

  72. 81 Jessica in NYC
    September 29, 2008 at 23:12

    Madam President Julie and Mr. VP Jens,

    I bring good news, President of Nigeria Nelson has agreed to sale us all the oil we need at a cheaper price. I was planning to point my tanker at Russia, but not worries Brown and I can play somewhere else. PS–I need to be reimbursed for a leather whip I bought.

  73. 82 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 23:16


    on a day where our 401k’s, the little we had, was obliterated, or almost obliterated, i was glad we had at least some fun at the end. i shall catch my car and an attend my institute for physical activity, also know as the gym. i hope that upon my return the country is in a better shape.

    yours the dark prince….

  74. 83 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 23:20


    sure, feel free to do so, we shall excuse you later.


    a whip?????? i hope you do not think this job is playtime………julie can we agree to the whip???? i hope it was at least a really expensive one…..we certainly will not pay for your leather costume

  75. 84 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 23:21


    what does nelson want in return?

  76. 85 Colleen
    September 29, 2008 at 23:24

    Can anyone explain to me how exactly the bailout will help even if it ever gets passed??

  77. 86 Venessa
    September 29, 2008 at 23:27

    As long as I get a pardon I’ll be happy.

    Jens ~ the leather costume is really a uniform requirement. Jessica should be reimbursed.

    BTW ~ I just read your last post on forcing people to vote and laughed so hard I nearly tinkled.

  78. 87 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 29, 2008 at 23:32

    Hey! what´s my role here????
    Can I be President of Mexico and suply you with more illegals?

  79. 88 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 23:32


    Ok, who else needs a leather costume. i was thinking of having her deduct it as a work expense.

    glad to make you laugh….

    Julie P,

    i just lifted the cuban cigar embargo, just wanted to let you know.


  80. 89 Jens
    September 29, 2008 at 23:34


    OK, i think we came make a deal……maybe you could become forgein minister, so we have somedoy who can speak to all the people. do you speak latein, i heared you need this so you can talk to the latin american people….

  81. 90 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 23:36

    @Luz Ma,

    I hereby bequeath you as Secretary of Earmarks. Feel free to raid the treasury.

  82. 91 Brett
    September 29, 2008 at 23:38

    Bush = Owned.

  83. 92 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 23:38


    I hereby make you the head of the CIA. Do whatever you like. I think that is part of their job description.

  84. 93 Brett
    September 29, 2008 at 23:39

    Can I get in on that too? Like Vice-Head-Assistant of the CIA?

  85. 94 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 23:41



  86. 95 Brett
    September 29, 2008 at 23:41

    @ Colleen:
    Can anyone explain to me how exactly the bailout will help even if it ever gets passed??

    *shakes head* Details details details. We common folk don’t need to know that, its too complex for our little heads to comprehend. We just need to cheer and support it. Bush says it is the only way and it will work. I mean, what else do you need? 🙂

  87. 96 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 29, 2008 at 23:45

    I want a leather costume too! But I need handcuffs, please!

  88. 97 Brett
    September 29, 2008 at 23:45

    @ Julie:

    Great, first task is going to be to print a $700 billion monopoly bill for Bush and Co. Sort of a consolation, from one department to another. Then I’m going to get a floating cooler and floating lounge chair and sit back in the reflecting pool for a bit and reflect.

    I appreciate you entrusting me with such a high position. I won’t let you down.

  89. 98 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 23:46


    “what does nelson want in return?”

    For you to start answering all of the desperate dignitaries e-mails and just give them your bank account number. You’ll get rich I tell you! Rich!

  90. 99 Brett
    September 29, 2008 at 23:46

    @ Luz…..

    I’m…. wow…..

    *walks away quickly*

  91. 100 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 29, 2008 at 23:47

    I prefer to be Foreign Minister rather than Secretary of Earmarks. I want some stamps in my passport.

  92. 101 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 23:49

    @Luz Ma,

    Done! And I’ll even throw in a set of handcuffs and a riding crop.

  93. 102 Robert
    September 29, 2008 at 23:50


    Would you really need to go the effort of printing the bill, just get them to put in on the old plastic fantastic. Those lines of credit they provide are amazing, will never get anybody into trouble ever. (honest)

  94. 103 Colleen
    September 29, 2008 at 23:51

    @ brett

    oh true — i forgot whatever bush says goes… i’m supposed to be really scared now because of the dire consequences from the bill not passing, right?!?! or maybe i should go out an buy a bunch of cr@p — that will help the economy, right??!! oh what to do!

    i bet if sarah palin was reading this she’d be able to give me a clear answer…. 🙂

  95. 104 Brett
    September 29, 2008 at 23:53

    You know, watching C-Span the other day while sippin’ on gin and juice (true story); I was actually amazed and quite proud of our government as I watched the house and person after person step up to the mic and speak their mind about the bill. Both democrats and republicans alike found it appalling that such a bill were proposed with so much limitation on investigation and control and lack of accountability given to the bailout-bankers. The emails and letters they read, and even the senator or congressman from vermont (I forget which and I forget his name) who was on WHYS, but he was on there too.

    Quite proud, quite proud indeed of my government (well parts of it) during this time.

    My mind was on my money and my money was on my mind.

  96. 105 Pangolin-California
    September 29, 2008 at 23:54

    Today the Dow closed at 10,365.45

    Dow – 10,578.24

    Let me be the first to say HA! HA! (missing picture of kid pointing finger)

    I’m not afraid of this as the US has already thrown me under the bus due to my health problems. I write this with an abscessed tooth that I cannot get treated keeping me in constant pain.

    ONE NATION UNDER GOD? More like one nation under ground. May the greatest be treated with the same respect and consideration the least receive; none.

    Link to my favorite doomer, James. H. Kuntsler. Today’s Post. And in society
    Charles Hugh Smith

    I claim MInistry of the Environment.

  97. 106 Brett
    September 29, 2008 at 23:55

    @ Robert:
    A $700,000,000,000.00 credit card….. GENIUS!
    A must have for this years fashion and high class!

  98. 107 Julie P
    September 29, 2008 at 23:57


    Please make sure you throw a kick butt WHYS Congress meeting for all of us somewhere. I’m thinking an all inclusive retreat in Tahiti for a month.

  99. 108 Brett
    September 29, 2008 at 23:58

    oh true — i forgot whatever bush says goes… i’m supposed to be really scared now because of the dire consequences from the bill not passing, right?!?!

    Well between that and turrists Im going to take my quarters and stash them in a bomb shelter and never come out.

    @ Pangolin:
    Let me be the first to say HA! HA! (missing picture of kid pointing finger)
    Nelson from the Simpsons

  100. 109 Colleen
    September 29, 2008 at 23:58

    @ robert

    can i buy some houses on that credit card?? i hear home-ownership is the key to long-term financial security….

  101. 110 Thedayafter
    September 29, 2008 at 23:58

    Time out! Greetings to our imaginary presidents, secretaries, cia director et al. What happened today can possibly the start of the great depression 2.0. What next for bush? What next for the global economy? What’s the way forward? *cries* tomorrow is pay day!

  102. 111 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 29, 2008 at 23:59

    Don´t be prude! I just want to have some fun as Foreign Minister… 😉

    Deal! If you can find furry handcuffs, it will be better for everybody…

  103. 112 Julie P
    September 30, 2008 at 00:00

    @Luz Ma,

    There’s enough adult toy stores around. We can get you whatever you want.

  104. September 30, 2008 at 00:07

    Has anyone just seen the new Palin interview on CBS wit Katy?

    LOLOL She has McCain along side her to keep her pecker up so she didn’t make a mistake. Do you think he will be stood next to her while she debates Joe Biden?

    You really, really cannot make this stuff up!


  105. 114 Pangolin-California
    September 30, 2008 at 00:09

    @ Colleen~ If Sara Palin was reading this she’d advise you to get a deer rifle, a box of ammo and get paid up on your deer tags. If you’re hungry you can shoot your own dinner can’t you? She does.

    There are voices outside of Wall Street that believe that the high energy prices are putting a crimp on growth that we’ve papered over with increasing reliance on credit. Like any good SimCity game if you keep borrowing you’ll find yourself trapped in a futile cycle where neither frugality nor continued borrowing will get you out of the hole. You have to reset the game and start again.

    Guess where we are today?

  106. 115 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 30, 2008 at 00:16

    Thanks Julie… you are a great Madame President 😉

  107. 116 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 30, 2008 at 00:18

    I think it will be ugly… I am concerned. Not only it will be harsh for Americans, but I am betting it will hit other countries. Mine for sure.

    Like I said before… it is a heck of a reality check!

  108. 117 Tom D Ford
    September 30, 2008 at 00:28

    One of the strategies that the Reagan Conservative Republicans came up with was to put the government so far into debt that any future president and congress would not be able to afford to put socially responsible programs into force. I have to wonder if this time they really shot themselves in both feet and kneecapped themselves to boot. Have they cut off their nose to spite their face?

    So I wonder if two things have collided, the Reagan Conservative Republican strategy and the Grover Norquist strategy to drown our government in debt to take away the power of the American People.

  109. 119 Pangolin-California
    September 30, 2008 at 00:32

    @ Colleen~ The key to long term financial security is where it’s been since the time of the Romans; productive farm land. Knowing what crops to produce and how to get them out of the ground profitably has always been a much harder trick than people think it is.

    All the favorable digits on your plastic don’t do you any good if the power is out, WalMart is closed and the gas station has bags over the pumps. Three acres of garden with some wood in the corner will tide you through a lot of hard times.

    Why do you think Ted Turner owns such a huge chunk of land?

  110. 120 Pangolin-California
    September 30, 2008 at 00:36

    @ Luz~ What is the Mexican government doing to replace the lost income from the Cantarell oil fields? Simply putting thousands of civil servants on the street is going to lead to an ugly fracas.

  111. 121 Brett
    September 30, 2008 at 00:38

    @ Pangolin:
    Maybe Sid Meier should be working for the White House and Treasury kids lol

  112. 122 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 30, 2008 at 00:49

    The President wants to privatize the oil industry… after ripping it off for decades, now they want private investors to make it efficient and do some fat business along the way…

    Not a pretty scenario… indeed.

  113. 123 Tom D Ford
    September 30, 2008 at 00:49

    So are our Conservative Republicans playing the ending of Samson and Delilah, they’re tearing the entire building down?

    Hmm, The Doors “Strange Days”.

  114. 124 Pangolin-California
    September 30, 2008 at 00:54

    @ Brett~ I had to Google Sid Meier; he’s a prominent game designer who dies virtual world simulations. I had to quit playing these things years ago as they are as cocaine to me.

    A good simulation can teach and reinforce concepts such as compound interest in ways that simply doing the math will never get across. I agree with author Neil Stephenson’s premise in The Diamond Age that simulations can teach far more effectively than simple rote memorization.

    I credit much of the current economic failure with the simple refusal to discover and nurture the hidden talents of the majority of the population in the industrial world. The biggest waste of resources is the wasted human potential.

  115. 125 Tom D Ford
    September 30, 2008 at 00:55

    @ Pangolin-California September 29, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    “I’m not afraid of this as the US has already thrown me under the bus due to my health problems. I write this with an abscessed tooth that I cannot get treated keeping me in constant pain.”

    Try rubbing aspirin directly on it, that has worked for me before.

  116. 126 Tom D Ford
    September 30, 2008 at 00:59

    @ Pangolin-California September 30, 2008 at 12:54 am

    “I credit much of the current economic failure with the simple refusal to discover and nurture the hidden talents of the majority of the population in the industrial world. The biggest waste of resources is the wasted human potential.”

    I’m sure with you about that.

  117. 127 Pangolin-California
    September 30, 2008 at 01:01

    @ Luz~ You’re kidding? In what reality forsaken myth does privatization of the oil industry put more oil in the ground when you are pumping less every month? With the recent drop in oil prices and slowdown of US refineries Mexican state income must be in the dank corner of the bodega.

    Get your family out of Mexico city. Encourage your sisters and cousin’s to marry ugly americans; I know one locally 😉

    Those oil revenues FEED the mexican populace. Ouch!

  118. 128 Dennis@OCC
    September 30, 2008 at 01:12

    I knew, the house would vetoed this bill….

  119. 129 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 30, 2008 at 01:16

    I know. Plain dumb…

    Another revenues that feed Mexicans are those sent by their fathers/sons/mothers/daughters/sisters/ brothers working legally or illegaly in the U.S. I bet we will have less this year… And is our second most important revenue, after oil…

    We are working in getting out… don´t worry. Good part: my husband and I don´t have any debts. We have been preparing for a rainy day. The storm is coming.

  120. September 30, 2008 at 01:36

    Speaking for the “Ugly Americans of America Coalition” I would like to say we would welcome the Mexican advances, but that we won’t be taken advantage of. We are not pieces of meat you can use just for a green card. We have needs and feelings too. That we will gladly hide and repress if you are even remotely cute and you shower occasionally.

  121. 131 Jessica in NYC
    September 30, 2008 at 01:41

    @ Julie P, Madam President
    I’m think a leather “uniform” in every color would make for nice international relations. President Nelson wanted jobs, so Sec of Labor PortlandMike has struck a deal that needs your approval. He has a villages in Nigeria making cheap baskets for us, maybe Mexico can supply us with cheap labor?

    @ Venessa, Director of the CIA
    The discovery channel is airing our your secrets called CIA Secret Experiments. You might want to seize the tv networks.

    @ Luz, Foreign Minster
    You should talk to Portland Mike, our Sec of Labor. It’s ok if they speak latin? RE: Re the handcuffs, I have extras.

    @ Pangolin, Minister of the Environment.
    Stop sending me memos about my tankers not being environmentally friendly. We’re at war, sir!

  122. 132 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 30, 2008 at 01:50

    I am taken, but I can say that we Mexicans are clean and some of us very cute (yes, I have high self-steem). We are very family driven, so divorce is still an stigma. Don´t worry for your needs and feelings, we don´t take marriage lightly. And if you are blond with blue/green eyes, that weights more than a green card.

  123. 133 Julie P
    September 30, 2008 at 01:53


    @Uniforms – I like black preferably unfinished leather for myself, everyone else can get whatever they like. Handcuffs with be standard issue.

    @President Nelson and Sec. of Labor Mike will meet in Bermuda tomorrow morning to sign the deal. Foreign Minister Luz Ma will be in attendance with her expertise in Mexican relations.

    @Director of CIA Venessa and Vice Head Asst. of the CIA are to shut down the Discovery Channel immeditely.

    @Secretary of Finance Jessica you to begin purchasing more pretty green tanks for the acquisition of more chocolate from Belgium.

  124. September 30, 2008 at 01:54

    Man I am still not certain how I feel about this bailout. Is it better to keep taking a remedy that will, or at least might, alleviate the uncomfortable feeling right now, or the cure that will defiantly put us out of commission for awhile but pave the way for us to come back stronger and healthier then ever before?

    What people don’t seem to understand about credit collapse is that our whole delusional reality is based upon it. Without credit, people are not going to buy stuff. Remember when you don’t spend money, somebody else is not earning it. If somebody is not earning it, they become unemployed. Unemployed people don’t pay taxes or social security. Without tax money, the government can’t pay its old, sick, and lazy the money they depend on to feed their 6 children and 4 grandchildren. That means that less money is being spent at Wal-Mart. Unemployed people can’t buy cars, pay rent, fill their hot tubs with pudding, or go to football games. The companies that are gainfully employed by these activities will soon find the need to cut their budget.

    As yourself, what do you do for a living? What are the people who buy your goods or services going to do when they have less money to do it with? Has anybody seen my fat cousin?

  125. 135 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 30, 2008 at 01:55

    @Jessica Secretary of Defense
    I am proposing Spanish courses for every public servant in this administration. We are first minority in the U.S. and more are comming to marry members of “Ugly Americans of America Coalition” for green cards and blue eyed babies.

  126. 136 Jessica in NYC
    September 30, 2008 at 01:55

    SORRY, as you can see the WHYS is cracking under the stress of the collapse of our economy. My pension lost a lot of value today, but will seems like nothing if you don’t get paid tomorrow!

    @ Dwight from cleveland, Mr. President of “Ugly Americans of America Coalition”
    My duties as Sec of Defense have me in South American for the rest of the week, are you only partial to Mexicans? If you’re open-minded, I’m sure I could find you some candidates to fill your positions.

  127. 137 Julie P
    September 30, 2008 at 02:02


    For my mental health I am not looking at my 401K and Roth. Should I choose to do that I will be out on a drinking bender that could last for weeks.

  128. September 30, 2008 at 02:03

    Luz Ma,

    LOL, that is good to know. Unfortunately my Mean old wife frowns on me having mistresses. I have green eyes, but most of the time I am so full of stuff you can’t tell. But, I have a few friends that are “nice guys when they aren’t drunk” if you want to send some of your kin this way. It isn’t the “bailout” plan we expected, but it is the best I can offer.

  129. September 30, 2008 at 02:16

    Lol, Jessica

    Already married a Chilean. I am a little leary about going any farther then Central America. She is crazy. Then again she is also 1/2 Croation. Maybe that is the crazy part. I am certain it has nothing to do with me. I mean it isn’t like I go out looking for them to me a little edgey. Right? Right?

    Then again this is off topic. SO no TP tonight?

  130. 140 Jennifer
    September 30, 2008 at 02:22

    @ Dwight from Cleveland

    I think people that were unsure of the benefits of the bailout or didn’t want to support it maybe feel differently now that they get to feel the reality of it not passing. It’s going to hurt. 😦 People won’t be spending if they don’t have the money and they won’t be getting credit. haha to filling a hot tub with pudding! That’s my life’s dream! j/k

  131. 141 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 30, 2008 at 02:29

    Don´t worry, they are used to drunken men. What do you think many guys do here in the weekends??? Drink beer and watch football (soccer for you)!!!

  132. September 30, 2008 at 02:35

    When I was listening to the news on CBS, a correspondant dexcribed the vote against the bailout as a failurre of our government. Seems that some have decided that their opinions should be ours, as well?

    Btw, no TP?

  133. 143 Roberto
    September 30, 2008 at 02:49

    RE “”I write this with an abscessed tooth””

    ——- Oil of clove mixed with aspirin in soaked bit of cotton packed into area.

    Getting it yanked is usually cheaper than having it fixed.

  134. September 30, 2008 at 02:49


    The scary part is that even those of use who did live “responsibly” may find themselves in stressful situations. If you can look back and think, “Wow, at least we lived like kings for awhile” you can ease your tensions. But those who bought into relative modest lifestyle then the people around them, thinking the high rollers were “fools”, are apt to feel spited when they are in the same life raft with the presumed fools.

    There was this guy once that spewed on about stuff like “not getting attached to materialistic items”, “giving it all away”, “helping each other out”, and “learning to depend on family and friends.” He was a real Wako, always talking about this book I think that he wrote. I bet people will soon be reading it though like it is some kind of gospel.

  135. September 30, 2008 at 03:04

    Serious confusion needs clear systems science – The Real Problem

    Thinking the future is an extension of the past causes people to always be living in the past. It points directly to the deep error in human thinking that brings down complex civilizations. It’s the source of that special stubbornness that prevents us from changing direction, even when turning is very clearly signaled. Now the past tells us to plan on limitless growth and make the choices that are causing our world to collapse.

    There actually is new science providing real cures for thinking the world is like a model of the past, but the learning is slow stuff. I actually know much too much about how natural systems develop, and dramatically change, how to steer or dodge them. No one would learn it fast like the discovery we’re making of a bottomless abyss underneath our long false expectations. It would help if people could visualize what’s happening with our large complex whole system change, though.

    Systems with lots of independent parts that grow to their limits produce erupting internal conflict between their parts as the parts collide with each other. At present those erupting conflicts are resulting in both the disappointment of many hard and fast expectations along with massive confusion, and have destabilized our global financial network. We’re not actually responding to that problem, though, since we don’t see it. We’re still making the problem worse by trying to continue treating our world as if it’s in the past. It seems only extraordinary luck will keep us from permanently loosing much of the complex organization of the world economic systems in the next couple years, both their activity and their design.


  136. 146 Roberto
    September 30, 2008 at 03:06

    RE “”Reagan Conservative Republicans””

    ———–Yes, the economy is collapsing to the center of the earth as donkeys are floggin’ dead horses on empty streets.

    Brilliant end of all times documentary for Michael Moore and Larry Flynt to collaborate on.

  137. 147 Bob in Queensland
    September 30, 2008 at 03:13

    Good morning all.

    …or should I say esteemed Presidents and Secretaries.

    I was diligently reading through all the posts until I got to Luz Ma in leather and fluffy handcuffs at which point I had to skim to the end!

    Silly question but…have any American politicians had the decency to look at what’s happened to the Dow and say “Oooops..sorry!”. No? I thought not.

    It occurs to me that through their failure to approve $700 billion yesterday, I suspect the price tag for meaningful action just went up to $1.5 trillion.

    Thanks guys.

  138. 148 Amy
    September 30, 2008 at 03:16

    Just wondering if I get to go shopping for new ships for the navy. I think somewhere on the coast of the Mediterranean or in the Greek Isle there must be some for sale…

  139. 149 Paul Harbin - Waco, Tx.
    September 30, 2008 at 04:09

    This is where you take the 50 grand you had lying around and buy stock. The golden goose companies that took losses from the panic will regain. Rolla-coastah- haaa woo woo woo!

    World wide pressure, and evolution in action. Change is coming, and not by means of our presidential election, but the inner hollows of our humanity. When we start to truly peer into these problems, I hope we pull away from what we see with resolve and diligence … not more ignorance. Hopefully this won’t lead us into WWIII, but if it does … I’ll find a cozy fire some place and read some of my favorite quotes.

    “The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.”
    – Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

    “Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe.”
    – H. G. Wells (1866-1946)

    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
    – Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

  140. 150 Jennifer
    September 30, 2008 at 04:19

    @ Dwight in Cleveland

    I think we are going to have to make some drastic changes for us to be able to rebound from this. No more spending without thinking about it. Even with education, it’s going to be hard to get jobs. I think we will see the crime rate go up too. I also think that we are going to be vulnerable to attacks while we are going through this…..not sure how I would do at being a survivalist. 😦

  141. 151 Dennis@OCC
    September 30, 2008 at 04:26

    Re: Amy comments:

    I would like to have a new ship for the WOW factor….


  142. September 30, 2008 at 04:49

    Here is how one GOP views small business: “I don’t think the American people should have a financial gun put to their head,” said Ted Poe , R- Texas . “If a mom and pop makes a bad financial decision, they go out of business.”

  143. 153 Jens
    September 30, 2008 at 05:15

    dear cabinet,

    i am glad to see you have turned our administartion into a cathouse.

    i knew you would do well in my abscence.

    anyone heard of steve the finance minister. he has been very quite. i guess totaling up all the fury handcuffs, whips and leather outfits, never mind the fluorescent green tanks.

    dennis i grant you your new ship, get whatever you want there will be a bailout and the plebs shall pay for it.

  144. September 30, 2008 at 05:26

    This has been a long time coming. A friend of mine who’s on the inside of the financial markets in the City of London, and made a killing some years ago as a commodities broker, said to me a couple of years ago, first of all there’s a recession on hold and the knock on effects are likely to hit hard. He also foresaw the housing market and mortgages going into free fall unless something was done at the time. But nobody was listening. He is amazed at the catastrophic level of failure though, and total lack of control and accountability that has been allowed to fester until such a situation grabbed hold. As I speak he’s getting out of London, and leaving his mansion and mortgage to tenants and having to start afresh with a new family.
    He’ll survive I’m sure, but in the short term he’ll probably suffer having taken on the lavish lifestyle he had become so accustomed to.
    We disagree on much on how the markets operate full stop, the unregulated, and almost covert operations unseen by so many. The futures markets benefit only one side in the main in the short term, and it is not usually people like coffee farmers, and global food and drink producers that don’t receive a considerable profit or massive bonuses.
    In all of this no one says that criminal and fraudulent market players should have to pay back their ill gotten gains and be fined heavily for their reckless behaviour over the years. And anyone who makes money of the back of this chaos, is given the maximum penalties and fines and goes to jail if found guilty. And you must have entirely independent investigative bodies and organisations that will open up every single can of worms out there.
    If individuals that make 100’s of millions of dollars in salaries, kickbacks and bonuses club together in a sort of financial cabal across the globe then I’m sure if they took on board a philanthropic approach to solving this, by selling their assets, many unnecessary properties and swimming pools, yachts, over subscribed car collections, you name it they appear to have it material excess coming out of their ears etc, etc. Then surely that would not only be an example for all to see. Also, it could potentially contribute to steadying a capitalist system that has spiralled out of all control, and ushering in a new one to take its place that is understood and accountable to us all in the future. And I don’t want to hear these greedy, selfish bastards saying as they continue to say even now, we mustn’t have controls and regulations upon our business dealings. It won’t allow us to operate freely, if stringent controls are introduced. We can keep our house in order thank you very much. You would say that wouldn’t you. And it’s patently obvious for all to see that you bloody well can’t! And you guys don’t understand all the mechanisms that underlie and affect all we do, in your interests of course. It’s high bloody time that you enter into real transparency with US and allow US to understand how you operate at various levels and the element of risks you are taking on a consistent basis, and all the pros and cons in the financial markets that potentially affect US ALL mate!

  145. September 30, 2008 at 05:33

    And why is the Ukraine sending weapons and military equipment to Sudan? Maybe the pirates had the right idea?

  146. September 30, 2008 at 05:35

    My bad: the arms/equipment are said to have been destined for the South Sudan breakaway government. Oops.

  147. September 30, 2008 at 05:40

    Here is the roll call for HR 3997, which displays who voted how on the emergency bailout bill in the U.S. House of Representatives. (@ mod, posting to bailout, belongs there)

  148. 158 Tom (of Melbourne)
    September 30, 2008 at 05:45

    The lifestyle of the American public have been subsidised from cheap foreign goods and foreign credits for the past decade. One would think the bailout, at roughly $2500 per taxpayer, is as much a cover for the public’s consumerism as the excesses of the big banks.

  149. September 30, 2008 at 05:57

    Bailout bill defeat could cause painful recession

    It is strange to me that they chose that title for the aricle. Halfway through the article, they stated,

    Even if the bailout were enacted by Congress and actually worked, many predicted the economy will probably shrink in the final quarter of this year and in the first quarter of next year, meeting the classic definition of a recession. If Congress doesn’t act, analysts, who were scrambling to downgrade their economic forecasts, believe those contractions will be deeper.

    Doomed if we did and doome if we did not?

  150. 160 Pangolin-California
    September 30, 2008 at 06:40

    @ What Phil is saying (I think)

    Is that when one is at the Wile-E-Coyote moment on the far side of the edge of the cliff it is a little to late for insight and critical thinking.

    What I keep trying to get across (and failing with) is that the energy flows that prop our monopoly money games up are no longer as favorable as they have been in the past. It doesn’t matter how much cash you have if the available thermodynamic surplus the global economy can supply you with is shrinking.

    The choices are find more energy, use energy you have more efficiently or toss some of the players off the lifeboat. Guess which plan is most popular right now?

  151. 161 Tom D Ford
    September 30, 2008 at 07:57

    @ Pangolin-California September 30, 2008 at 6:40 am

    “@ What Phil is saying (I think)

    Is that when one is at the Wile-E-Coyote moment on the far side of the edge of the cliff it is a little to late for insight and critical thinking. ”


    You have a gift for incisive, concise, and elegant (elegant in the mathematical way) thinking and writing!

  152. 162 Pangolin-California
    September 30, 2008 at 10:26

    @ Tom~ Thank you.

    Wait until the collective powers that be discover that the 700 billion they spent along with the money that the Fed has been handing out through the special discount window are about as effective at stopping the economic freefall as a t-shirt and some socks in a parachute pack.

    Now we have businesses closing every day and houses sitting empty and rotting. Plus lots of homeless people. Rental properties decay as neither tenants nor landlords are willing to spend money on improvements. People who are now buried by credit and trapped in dead job markets are going to have health problems.

    I think the economy is in a death spiral. A green jobs program might fix it. Might.

  153. 163 Marian
    September 30, 2008 at 10:34

    FINANCIAL BAILOUT: We need fiscal & monetary stabilization not a ‘bailout’ for greedy bankers, brokers & hedge funds. The current Administration cannot be trusted to protect any groups beyond its supporters. I side with Vermont Representative Peter Welch: any plan this expensive should be paid for by the groups who benefited over the past 8 years, not the middle class.
    From Vermont, USA

  154. 164 Pangolin-California
    September 30, 2008 at 10:59

    @ Marian~ Fiscal & monetary stabilization would require that the ‘printing presses’ at the Fed were put under some sort of stable, known and transparent controls.

    As for the various investments made in hedge funds by pension managers. What in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster were they thinking? That when they give other peoples money to investment schemes that can’t be understood it would be OK?

    I like the idea of paying for every penny of this by taxing the wealth of the top 2 percent of their assets. They will hide their money from an income tax but I say we grab assets. To those whom much was given much shall be required.

  155. 165 Jessica in NYC
    September 30, 2008 at 11:21

    @ Mr. VP Jens

    As Sec of Defense: my whip and various colored leather uniforms have been a great sucess. It seems male foreign leaders are very happy to comply with my request when I carry a whip. I have secured oil and cheap goods over seas, expanded our military and am whipping our enemies into order. Mission accomplished, we can evacuate Iraq. President of Nigeria Nelson will sell us all the oil we need. Though he wants nukes, but will allow us to oversee the production and regulate it. He is also giving us land to have a permeant military base. Since Russia and China are in Africa, I think you should take it to the President Julie. Prime Minster Selena of France sends you a few cases of wine. It seems french don’t really hate Americans it’s more of a specify Bush dislike. The Prime Ministers of Belgium Kathi is not returning my calls. Chocolate has not been secured. Madam, Sec Amy, and I are going shopping for ships in Greece, the royal want to do business with us. I am also working with Sec of Labor Mike, in Portland to bring new jobs back to the US.

    Unfortunately, the Sec of Finance Steve has been absent. However, I have been helping out, considering I can see my bank when I walk to the subway in the morning I am more than qualified to assist.

  156. 166 Jessica in NYC
    September 30, 2008 at 11:23

    🙂 thanks for a fun page all… needed some good laughs to bring the stress down.

    @ Will
    Thanks for the links. Did you see McCain retracting his blame to Obama 2 hours after he blamed him for the economy… LOL, McCain should have staff reminding him of what he says at each press conf.

  157. 167 Pangolin-California
    September 30, 2008 at 11:43

    @ Jessica~ I hear The Maltese Falcon is up for sale. If you’re going to have a leather clad cabinet this is the ship on which to have cabinet meetings. It’s also my favorite bit of wretched excess ever.

    It comes with it’s own submarine too.

    It sounds like the BBC World service business announcer is a bit peeved with the bailout not proceeding. I wonder what HIS portfolio did yesterday?

  158. 168 Jessica in NYC
    September 30, 2008 at 12:08

    @ Pangolin-California
    I could use thinking like that in my dept, need a job?

    @ Commander of the Navy, Amy– if the stinkers in congress will not authorize the purchase of the The Maltese Falcon as a National Security necessity, can I sneak in in your budget? As Sec of Defense, I usually get whatever I want if I say, “It’s another tool to fight terrorism”, but in the event they actually read the report, need a back up.

  159. September 30, 2008 at 13:01

    This is an open letter to my politicians and the people of America about the Bail Out. If we were to have any common decency, we would vote out all of the politicians and the status quo. We would replace them with Libertarians and Greens. The Status Quo [including the higher authorities of Wall Street] should be made to pay restitution by being accused of treason, sentenced to life imprisonment, and manual labour. The sentencing should be done by The International Court in The Hague and Local Courts.

  160. 170 Amy
    September 30, 2008 at 14:55

    Sec. Jessica,

    Feel free to hide whatever you want in the Navy’s budget. Just if you get something good, can you get two so I can have one? I understand that there is only on Maltese Falcon but in the future if something comes along……

  161. 171 selena in Canada
    September 30, 2008 at 15:31

    I have been out of touch for most of the time for two days. It has been fun reading some of the posts in the past few minutes. I am disappointed, but not surprised, that I didn’t get a job. 😉

    It’s been fun but also disheartening because many of the posts are reflective of the brainwashing that got us into this mess in the first place.

    There is a lot of talk about greedy ordinary people and not much refutation of such a blanket blame directed at the people who were conned into realizing what they thought was the American Dream. Some people really have it firmly lodged in their minds that poor people deserve nothing from this life.

    Why do we blame people whose only fault is that they want something for their children that the crooked rich take for granted as their god given right?

    Flush out the crooks who sold worthless pieces of paper around the globe and reaped out of mind profits. When you blame the underdog, you are guaranteeing that this mess will never be solved. Another day, another scheme and another bailout for the rich is the future, unless it is nipped in the bud now.

    Wall street represents a tiny fraction of the money that is flowing through the economy each and every day. Ask yourself who is stopping the money from flowing and for what reason?

    Don’t be a follower, please!

  162. 172 Jens
    September 30, 2008 at 16:59


    the weapons were destined for kenya if i am not mistaken…..

  163. 173 Brit in Wyoming
    September 30, 2008 at 17:37

    I am not suprised that this “Bailout” bill is having difficulties getting passed. Here in the U.S. the Bush administration has spent eight years losing all of the credibility given to our president and their cabinet. We as citizens were rushed to a war in Iraq while being fed misinformation. Everyone is now suspicious of any calls from Bush that appear to be using scare tactics. President Bush also initially called for no restrictions on the bailout package, claiming that he would veto any bill with restrictions. Personally I believe that removing some of the restrictions from U.S. banking caused this mess in the first place. Americans should be suspicious, and the Bush administration should not be suprised by a lack of cooperation.

  164. 174 anne
    September 30, 2008 at 18:29

    This is disaster capitalism at its worst. Everyone needs to read Naomi Klein’s book The Shock Doctrine. She describes how rich people benefit from poor people through disasters like the tsunami, Katrina, and now this. Its a rip off and we need a new system.

  165. 175 Christopher Thorpe
    September 30, 2008 at 18:53

    With the threat of global terrorism, the illicit drug trade crisis and the blessing of globalization I think it would be a very unwise decision to allow the USA to take over companies. The USA should not be given so much power, let the markets bring about the re-adjustments. The responsibility of the USA is to ensure that tight financial regulations are in place to prevent a future financial nightmare of this magnitude. I fear the possibility of being held at ‘ransom’ to a super power. This crisis does not necessitate religious intervention it requires common sense financial integrity.

  166. 176 Randall
    September 30, 2008 at 18:56

    As a U.S. citizen, I have asked my elected reps not to support a bailout plan for the banking industry. The overpaid fools who thought it wise to lend to unworthy customers must alone bear the cost of their actions. Let them fail. There will be pain, those who have caused this deserve to have it — not the hard working taxpayer. I am afraid we must be convinced Mr. Bush wants first to protect his cronies, not the people.

    Reward the hard-working taxpayers, without notions of support for this failure caused from the affirmative-action-in-lending lie. We need roads, schools, bridges, and much more. We do not need to protect OVERPAID fools in their glass houses. I am sorry for the real employees and they will find other work like many of us have had to do so often in recent years. Thank you. Respectfully…

  167. September 30, 2008 at 20:43

    I am reading House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s speech from yesterday prior to the failed vote on the emergency economic bailout package as hosted on the Guardian.

    Her speech does not at all seem to be partisan. Instead, I am seeing several statement encouraging immediate action and bipartisan co-operation. Are others having different impressions of this same speech? (Please do not tell me that I am reading the wrong speech?)

  168. 178 Robert Davison
    October 1, 2008 at 03:19

    I ma sick of hearing about what is happening the USA – please give it a rest -is the BBC being paid by the USA government to broadcast this?

  169. 179 Robert Davison
    October 1, 2008 at 03:31

    why do you say the “president” but the “british prime minister? how many mor USA interest programmes (or shouls i write program) or we going to get. UK tax payers money pay fro the BBC world service or is it being subsidised (subsidized) by the USA?

  170. 180 M.Rose
    October 1, 2008 at 13:42

    One commentator on the World Service stated that over the past few years the 400 most wealthy people increased their wealth by $620 billion dollars.

    Eerily close to the bailout amount.

    Maybe they could loan Paulson their excess and spare the rest of us…

    If the plan somehow fails they would still be mere billionaires.

  171. 181 Yoon Huei
    October 1, 2008 at 16:12

    The US govt, being the upholder of capitalism should not interfer to bail out the ailing banks.
    Let the Darwinian principal of survival of the fitest take it’s natural course.

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