On air: Welcome to Truth or Consequences

Hi there from the BBC bus. T&C, as the people here call it, is a small New Mexico town and it’s fair to say people here are excited to talk with you. (A local newspaper ran a front-page headline last week saying ‘The British are coming’). We’re hosting a breakfast and WHYS will follow and I’m hoping everyone coming along will help us get a feel for life in a small American town. Your questions to the people of T&C are welcome…

I’m curious to find out what people’s concerns are. What are the pressing matters that affect life here? What will decide how they vote? And how do they see their country fitting into the world?

As I talk with our guests before the show, I’ll get them to post here on the blog if there’s a specific issue they want to talk about with you.

I’ll leave this brief as I need to get some sleep ahead of an early start.

197 Responses to “On air: Welcome to Truth or Consequences”

  1. 1 Michael
    September 16, 2008 at 07:23

    To the people of Truth and Consequences:

    I looked through the T&C website and T&T Chamber of Commerce website and it seems you have a great little city.

    It does seems that the T&C economy is mostly based upon tourism, recreation and personal services. I am wondering if and how the national and global economic downturns are affecting your local economy. I am also wondering about the current status of diminishing water resources and its effects upon recreational tourism and future development.

    • 2 Bethany
      October 13, 2009 at 02:28

      T or C is doing alright. We also have a variety of hot springs and specialty herbs for the visitors and a vast retirement community. The veteran’s home and the home health center for other seniors are always in business, and it is stationed close enough to Elephant Butte Lake that any excess of fishermen, golfers, or general boaters can come on by T or C for restaurants and hotels.

  2. 3 Pangolin- California
    September 16, 2008 at 08:38

    New Mexico is a curious place with vast distances of desert waste between the islands that are towns and cities. I’m curious as to how they are managing with the steep rise in gas prices that happened this summer.

    Do they think there is any political solution or is this something that they will have to ride out on their own steam?

    Also the most important question: red or green?

  3. 5 Katharina in Ghent
    September 16, 2008 at 10:18

    Hi there,

    I know very little about New Mexico, but I imagine that there should be lots of sun, given the deserts you have there. So my question is about alternative energies: do you have lots of solar panels and wind turbines? Are there alternative ways being explored to keep your homes cooler in summer without setting the airconditioner on overdrive? What are you doing to conserve water?

  4. 6 James
    September 16, 2008 at 10:20

    Dear Ros,

    I would like to ask your interviewees what they thought of former Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul’s suggestion to support third party candidates in the upcoming election because there is really difference between Obama and McCain as Dr. Paul mentions in the following youtube video:

    Ron Paul: Evil is Evil:

  5. September 16, 2008 at 10:22

    Meant to write (in the post above!) there Dr. Paul mentioned in the youtube linked above that there is no difference between Obama and McCain!

  6. 8 James
    September 16, 2008 at 10:37

    Dear Ros,

    I also would like to ask your interviewees if they would agree with a nuclear strike on Iran as former CIA operative Philip Giraldi is warning against in the following piece for the American Conservative magazine:

    Deep Background:

    In Case of Emergeny, Nuke Iran; Give Tenet Another Medal; Iraq’s Police Brutality


  7. 9 Bob in Queensland
    September 16, 2008 at 11:52

    On another site I visit, somebody linked to THIS PHOTOGRAPH of a sign calling Obama a “half breed muslin”.

    Is this sort of racist attack taken seriously by anyone in the USA? I’d like to hope not, but I’ve heard a bit too much of it.

  8. 10 Brett
    September 16, 2008 at 12:17

    Is this sort of racist attack taken seriously by anyone in the USA?

    Unfortunately I have heard it and similar race attacks on him from plenty ignorant rednecks around the Richmond, Va. area. I suppose even closet-bigots slip up from time to time and expose their true colors.

  9. 11 Brett
    September 16, 2008 at 12:19


    I’m tempted to hop on a train and meet you guys somewhere up north lol.

  10. 12 selena in Canada
    September 16, 2008 at 12:49


    I really do not think that there is a whit of difference between Obama and McCain. The tactics used to discredit the candidates are no different either.

    What’s needed is a different approach to politic and that’s pie in the sky. So, we have to play the hand we are dealt.

    I have always said that in America if a woman ever got to be president she would have to come from the right. Too many people, even liberals, are still scared of feminists for women like Hillary to break through.

    The way this election is going is like Forrest Gump’s box of chocolates. You never know what you will get.

    I was frightened of the messiah factor with Obama. Now I am worried about the God factor with Palin. She clearly walks with the OT God.

    Stephen Harper is beginning to look good. And that is scary!

  11. 13 selena in Canada
    September 16, 2008 at 13:00

    Some of you might find this interesting in view of our obsession with the Nazis.


  12. 14 selena in Canada
    September 16, 2008 at 13:14

    In view of what is at stake in the election, it would be good to ask their views about left and right wing politics.



  13. 15 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 13:17

    @ Selena

    Palin is running for VP, not for President, like Obama is.

  14. 16 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 13:20

    @ Brett

    I’m sure you know, that not only white “rednecks” are racist. If you recall, there was some person who was shown on some kind of city council meeting that said that white people need to be exterminated. My point being, is that racism isn’t limited to whites.

  15. 17 Brett
    September 16, 2008 at 13:27

    I’m sure you know, that not only white “rednecks” are racist.

    I completely agree with you, Steve. I never claimed that whites are the only racists (as blacks, yellows, purples, oranges, greens are every bit as racist as whites). My comment was a response to Bob, asking if other Americans share the same racist sentiment towards Obama.

    And strangely enough, ‘white people’ have been the only ones I have heard (in person, with my own ears) make racist remarks about Obama… And every one of them could be classified as a ‘redneck’, and ignorant ones in my book.

    I’m well aware that everyone can be racist, and have stated my position with regards to that numerous times on this blog.

  16. 18 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 13:30

    @ Brett

    On Saturday, at at wedding, I heard hispanic people saying racist things about Obama.

  17. 19 Angela in Washington
    September 16, 2008 at 13:36


    I just wanted to ask a question. “Why does it matter who says racist things about Obama?” I was just talking to some people here at work and they stated that most people are racist. In fact they said most people from their area, western PA, are afraid of black people and can’t stand them.

    I wonder when people can get over the race thing. I know blacks that are just as racist or even more racist than some of the white people I know. Some of these people are very intelligent and well off.

  18. 20 Brett
    September 16, 2008 at 13:37

    @ Steve:

    Then I guess theres a multitude of racist americans who share similar sentiment for Obama, answering Bob’s origional question.

  19. 21 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 13:38

    @ Angela

    If everyone is racist, then it must be in human nature, but then again:


  20. 22 Angela in Washington
    September 16, 2008 at 13:40


    I am more wary of a right winged female candidate than a left wing candidate, mostly because I am more liberal leaning.

    I think the main thing people should decide in this particular race is the direction the country wants to go in. I personally think some people would like Obama’s policy because the income gap in this country is increasing, which may cause uprisings. However, some people are extremely afraid of change and those people should vote for a candidate that wants to keep the status quo.

  21. 23 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 13:44

    @ Brett

    Some of the most racist whiles you’ll ever meet, and no offense to liberals, but are Boston liberals. Anyone ever been to Boston or met people from Boston? Pretty much the universal trait is that they cannot stand blacks, and Boston is one of the most liberal cities in the US.

    Look up the Boston bussing riots.

  22. 24 Angela in Washington
    September 16, 2008 at 13:47


    I don’t beleive everyone is racist but I understand that some people are more accepting of differences than others. I am not saying this to judge or put down anyone but most right wing people don’t like change and have problems/ issues with people unlike them. Depending on how one was raised, they might have adopted racist feeling. I am from a very racist area but there are a huge amount of interracial couples. It is funny because a lot of the people I graduated with are married to someone of another race, being that most of my classmates are married or divorced now. (from high school)

    I have hope that one day we will not be as concerned about race, as we are now. Hopefully, people will start to address the issues. Plus we are all more alike, than different.

  23. 25 Angela in Washington
    September 16, 2008 at 13:49


    I will agree. Boston is a very racist town. I wanted to move there for a while but my mother would not have it. However, I like visiting the town.

  24. 26 Alby
    September 16, 2008 at 13:57

    I would like to ask the People of T&C about this big big divide and conflict between the Coastal cities and the interior of the country. Because their economy is travel and recreation, do they really buy into this ‘rugged individualist’ American myth thing, or do they believe they can or indeed must co-exist with urban city types?

    It seems like it all comes down to this today. People in the interior don’t see the need for civil social society, but rather believe ‘rugged individualism’ is the stuff that built the country. This is the same argument between Callicles and Socrates, way back at the beginning of Western civilization.

    Being from the East coast, I know that our great achievements like WWII, space program, technology innovation are not the solitary reserve of individualists but rather collaborative social human beings and the result of significant education. And that labor, civil rights, and women’s movements, universities and press are not some oppressive yoke for ‘rugged individualists’ that hamper society.

    This Western anti-human mentality really scares me, and I understand it is a strong strong part of the culture out West (and in Alaska).

    It is the root of the warfare of the Conservatives against the Urban so called Liberals (although Obama is Progressive not Liberal in that he does understand where, when, and how to apply the ‘free-market’, not blindly and only to benefit a few which is the Conservative way).

    So, given that T&C are dependent on wealthy tourists from somewhere else, what do they think about this divide?

  25. 27 amod
    September 16, 2008 at 14:00

    if one has to describe the most important sites of mexico,what would it be?

  26. 28 1430a
    September 16, 2008 at 14:37

    Hello everyone,
    well i would certainly want to know the reactions of people there after the disaterous economic condition in America.Do they feel safe there with their jobs?
    I would also want to know their choice for the presidential elections.


  27. 29 jamily5
    September 16, 2008 at 14:40

    I have known liberal and conservative racists.
    The difference, sometimes is that some of the conservative racists are more willing to admit it and the liberal ones hide it a bit better. In this case, I don’t think that party affiliation has much to do with it.
    and, just for the record, I also know people who interracially date, yet still hold racist views.
    Their date or significant other, is the exception to the rule, so of course, their spouse or sig/other does not count.
    But, just because they have a child of another race, work with those of other races, have a different race lover, does not mean that they are “not racist.” While personal communications and connections with other races does seem to curb racism, unfortunately, change (especially the kind that happens introspectively) always takes longer than we would like to admit.

  28. 30 Brian Larson
    September 16, 2008 at 15:37

    Racists in the US, of course, a few odd balls. But racism is seen as unamerican largely the result of WWII and the civil rights movement in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s.
    Overt racism is fast become history. A lot less overt racism west of the rockies and north of the great lakes. But there are many rich or pseudo-rich that treat domestic workers and physical laborers with contempt which has a racial tone to it.

  29. 31 Brian Larson
    September 16, 2008 at 15:50

    @1430a The crises is actually good for my business, I’m a real estate appraiser or valuer as most know of it. When the banks mess up, I make money valuing their mistakes. Are they stupid or what.
    My wife is a civil engineer at Caltrans. She is on minimum wage due to the California budget impass. She supervises 14 composed primarily of male engineers. Shoe is on the other foot.
    We will probably both vote for McCain. I know my wife will. Although, I may write in Nader, which I have done a few times. I’ve voted for a Republcan for President three times. Nixon once, Dole and Bush once. I’ve voted Democrat three times, Dukakis, Mondale and Carter once. The rest of the time I’ve voted third party.

  30. 32 1430a
    September 16, 2008 at 16:00

    well i guess some situations always have a good affects alongside the bad effects.I should say enjoy the earnings as much as you can because soon the situations will be better(at least i hope it does).
    On voting for McCain,
    I would certainly be curious to know why do you want to vote for McCain?Do you think he can reduce the economic problems happening currently in America?

  31. 33 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 16:01

    Honestly, given the mess the US is, why would anyone want to be President?

    I won’t go into my mental illness stuff, but seriously, who in their right mind would want that job?

  32. 34 Brian Larson
    September 16, 2008 at 16:02

    @amod New Mexican sites or great places to go, Taos for the upscale, but my favorites are Bandelier National Monument; Chaco Culture National Historical Park; Native American rodeo at Gallup on 4th of July is excellent; and most of all Acoma the Sky City. Many of the Pueblos are neat too.

  33. 35 Anthony
    September 16, 2008 at 16:11

    I like racists that don’t even know they are racist. I have been in situations where people start talking extra slow and clearly because I’m hispanic and they assume I know crappy English. It’s pretty funny!!!

    -Anthony, LA, CA

    p.s., What is this, a blank page!!! Haha!!!

  34. 36 Alby
    September 16, 2008 at 16:17

    @1430A @ Brian et al

    from my perspective, real estate appraisal and valuation is a service business, not a value creation or producer business. The only reason people need housing is because there is some viable business somewhere that actually produces something that people need and that is based on real know how, skill and technology.

    Speculative investment in housing as a proxy to value creation is a root cause of this crisis. So, yeah I am sure you busy with the bottom fishers, who have no other skills to offer.

    So, I don’t know how you can vote for McCain, with what his policies will continue to do to the middle class and their ability to educate themselves and their children, and from whom come all drive, talent, innovation for self-improvement and a better life for their children.

    It doesn’t come from the people at the top contrary to all the myths. They are blocking innovation, not supporting it.

  35. 37 Brian Larson
    September 16, 2008 at 16:26

    @1430a The argument for McCain are the bills McCain Feingold campaign finance reform, McCain Kennedy immigration reform, years being a political maverick and offing his own party, opposition to the Bush tax cuts without spending cuts, and military competence. McCain has the guts to stand up to the powerful and corrupt. He sees himself as a radical Republican in the mode of Teddy Roosevelt. I want radical change.
    Obama has a weak resume. No business experience, no work experience, no military experience, couple of years in Congress. Hey, this is the most important job in the world, will this guy be able to withstand the pressures of the powerful and discern the manipulation? Who knows?
    The Democratic and Republican Parties are two ends of the same dog. I want someone to shoot the dog.

  36. 38 Anthony
    September 16, 2008 at 16:26

    @ steve Re: “Who in there right mind would want to be President of the U.S.”

    a) A narcissistic megalomaniac
    b) A hero

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  37. 39 Bob in Queensland
    September 16, 2008 at 16:27

    @ Steve (Your 4:01 PM)

    For once we agree.

    The British comedy series “Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy” had a section where they suggested a system where anybody who aspired to high office should immediately be disqualified from running.

    Makes sense to me!

  38. 40 Brian Larson
    September 16, 2008 at 16:39

    @Anthony yeah, what a bunch of dopes. I love it when they say there are too many Mexicans coming into California! A third of California IS IN Mexico … LOL. I’ve been in places where they count the change to my cousin, who is Hispanic, Uno, dos, tres … jeez … the guy went to UCLA. This is why you had the LA riots.
    @Alby I don’t speculate in real estate, only own my own place, and am an honest appraiser. Mortgage brokers, developers, hate me because I expose their chicanery. Many bankers are idiots.

  39. 41 1430a
    September 16, 2008 at 16:42

    @ Steve,
    But do not forget the President who will find a solution to this mess will surely be a ‘Hero”.So not too sure if the candidates are scared by this problem.
    But i think having McCain will not be a solution because he is going to follow Bush(which means keeping the troops in America for a long time).This means that the government expenditure increases.So i suppose having McCain is not such a good idea.

  40. 42 Jessica in NYC
    September 16, 2008 at 17:03

    I think everyone here should see the Broadway Musical Avenue Q:

    For Youtube video of song from the cast of Avenue Q:

    Everyone’s A Little Bit Racist Lyrics

  41. 43 Dennis@OCC
    September 16, 2008 at 17:14

    @ Ros:

    It is nice for you to visit T&C….


  42. 44 Jessica in NYC
    September 16, 2008 at 17:21

    I have said this before, I do think we all have our prejudices, but those are not necessarily racist. Our social environments along with our up-bring definitely influence our views toward other racial groups, but are not bound by them. We have the ability to develop independent thought.


    According to wikipedia C&T is made up of 85% white people. I’d like to hear how C&T residents feel race is playing a role in this election? Would they vote or not for potential President based on race?

  43. 45 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 17:22

    That would be interesting if the Bus went to detroit, how the audience felt race’s role in the election. Would they vote or not for potential President based on race?

  44. September 16, 2008 at 17:43

    Ros, I was wondering if you could ask if the people in New Mexico if they would go with the idea of farming Algae to produce fuel?

    I have read somewhere that they are developing this idea in that state. Would the people who live there back the idea, even if it didn’t bring a lot of economic upturn in the short term?

    Do they think that Obama should invest a lot of his promised investment in renewable’s there to capture their obvious natural resources like that Sun?

    And how will the State itself help out while this change into a green economy is conducted – how do the people think the State should help?

  45. 47 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 17:44

    what a bummer…. i live in new mexico and did not know that the beeb was comming.

  46. 48 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 17:51


    the idea of farmin algea is a neat one, BUT still in it’s infancy. there are plety of issues that have not been resolved. one is the sheer size of brackish water one needs. the estimate is about 1/3 of new mexico, then we have the issue temperature, since NM is a high desert state and get’s pretty cold over winter. another issue is strain selection, ie which one will grow best with the highest oil yield. once we have that issue sorted comes the probelm, that we are growing in effect a mono-culture and that predators, like bacteri and parasists might find a perfect feast. Harvesting such a vast expanse is also an issue, and we have not effen addressed the extraction of the oil, which either requiers large amounts of energy (centrifugation) or rather nasty chemicals that are polar enough to extract the oil by disolving it.

    nevertheless, i do spend sometime of my working life thinking about all these issues and how to adress them. there are some pons in souther NM.

  47. 49 James Hovis
    September 16, 2008 at 17:54

    The person from California talking about New Mexico is obvious in that the person has never been to NM. The price of gasoline is $3.38 (Sept. 17th 2008). We don’t pay anywhere near the State Taxes that California imposes on its citizens. New Mexico does not have vast desert wasteland between small towns and the 3 major cities. We have Pondersa Pines, forests and 10,000 foot mountains. It is high desert, with lots of vegetation and flowers if one would look for them. Yes, we have sand too and very low humidity and overall rainfall comapred to Seattle, WA.

  48. 50 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 17:58

    funny 85% white in T&C, NM. my guess would be that it is an even split overall in NM between hispanic and whites, with other groups being in the vaste minority. very little black and asian people here, but quite a few native americans.

  49. 51 Brian Larson
    September 16, 2008 at 17:58

    @1430a and Alby In my humble opinion, the people at the top, either Democrat or Republican, are for themselves. Both will support the military as a means to protect their wealth. This is all wrapped up in a package that says “for the betterment of humanity”. Flags, nations, socialism, capitalism are all a façade, a cartoon. It is not a conspiracy. It doesn’t need to be. Just simple self interest that occurs from the nature of people.
    But if the rich suffer it is the poor and middle that suffer first and worst. To have competent political and business leadership is important. There will always be meat at the table in a rich house but not a poor one. To think “leaders” beholden to the rich are ever going to do anything against the interests of the rich is an illusion. So, I vote for whoever will screw “us” the least. Hoping to pit on corruption against another.
    As for what to do, my advice to my children invest in your education and skills. You only have your labor to sell, make it as valuable as possible. Strengthen your family, no messing around, no vices, the family is the key. See how some in America are crumbling from their vices and lack of solid morals. Save what money you can and diversify your “investments”, different countries, different stock business, different forms of money including basic commodities and land. Love God, thanks daily and try to do this while treating your neighbors respectfully and honestly. Expecting the rich and government programs to bail out the commoners, yeah right, … only if they can profit from it.

  50. 52 Fae Marie
    September 16, 2008 at 17:58

    Can’t ya’ll come down to Houston!?

    Come on!! PLEASE?!?

    I will call in sick to see you guys! =0)

    PLEASE!! I hate to play the pity card but we got hit by Hurricane Ike this past weekend…it’ll be a great way to vent!! PLEASE COME TO HOUSTON!!

  51. 53 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 18:02

    If the US were to have an NHS, then I think it’s fair for the government to force people to lose weight, tell them what they can and cannot eat or drink (including alcohol) and that they cannot smoke. Otherwise, my tax dollars will be used to pay for other people’s poor choices. Is that fair to the other taxpayer?

  52. 54 Thea Winter - Indianapolis IN, USA
    September 16, 2008 at 18:02

    @ Alby
    What do you see as Western anti-human mentality? I was born in New York, moved to San Francisco at 5 years old. Then I moved to Indianapolis in November of 1999. I have lived all over and don’t fully understand your statment.

  53. 55 Jessica in NYC
    September 16, 2008 at 18:06

    Historically, racial politics have always been a major issue in the US. People are entitled to their prejudice and racist views, the legal point is that racist cannot legally discriminate against others based on their beliefs.

    To get a glimpse of how deep racism is rooted in the south I highly recommend:
    Two Towns of Jasper (2002)

    It’s a documentary of the aftermath of a vicious hate crime in a southern small town. Jasper is completely integrated town of almost 50/50 black and white population. A Black man named James Byrd was severally beaten and tried to a truck then dragged through town to his death by three young white men.
    The two directors (one is black one is white) went to Jasper to film how each side (black people live one side of the railroad tracks and whites on the other side) of Jasper felt about this death of Mr. Byrd. The white director interviewed the white folks and the black director interviewed the African-Americans.

  54. 56 Vijay
    September 16, 2008 at 18:06

    What do people in Truth or Cosequences think of religious groups like 3HO(Healthy ,Happy ,Holy)coming to small communities in New Mexico(like Espanola)?

  55. 57 Jessica in NYC
    September 16, 2008 at 18:08

    @ Fae Marie

    LOL— I’d second your idea. WHYS go to Houston.

  56. 58 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:08

    @James Hovis,

    where do you get the average rainfall of seattle. we had a great rain season this year but boy a couple of years back we had nothing and the local national forest was closed for the general population….

    plus could you let me into the secret where you pay only 3.38 a gallon??? i pay about 3.58 in ABQ.

    as you said the distances are not that bad ABQ and SF are only about 50 miles apart. the worst trips for distance are in the winter to go skiing in pajarito or taos

  57. September 16, 2008 at 18:10

    Yes, America needs universal health care. The only reason it hasn’t gone through prior to this is because of the money generate from private health care. The insurance companies are getting right off our backs. Yes, I have experienced managed health care as well as private. The main difference I have found is that the caregivers are more interested in my health than in money generated. I would vote for it without blinking.

    Karen in Oregon

  58. 60 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:12


    as long as they bring meth they will be welcome in espanola. now here we are talking about a rasist town, where white peoples homes have been burnt down. i don’t like stoping at the trrafic light there for fear of having my wheels removed while waiting….

  59. 61 Jessica in NYC
    September 16, 2008 at 18:14

    Me too! *Clap, clap, clap at the lady with the Obama t-shirt*


  60. 62 Miriam
    September 16, 2008 at 18:18

    Welcome to the BBC~
    When are you coming to Albuquerque??? we listen to Beeb all the time!
    its great to know that little old New Mexico not only is considered a “swing state” in this latest (s)election but that BBC is interested in putting us on the map…(to help so many Americans who still dont realize that we’re in the United States and one doesn’t need a passport to visit New Mexico). What is actually even more astounding is that our 5 electoral votes could tilt the balance of this absurd presidential campaign…That there is even a HESITATION to vote for Obama, particularly since this state is largely native American /hispanic population and quite poor per capita…the real question is why ANYONE who struggles to make a living as so many do here in NM would vote AGAINST THEIR OWN INTERESTS and vote for the GOP candidates…how insane is that? Perhaps due to the fact that the US MSM (mainstream media) FAILS miserably to educate on current events with historical background, maps, etc that allow people to understand what LIES our sons and daughters are being sacrificed for in the lands which are rich with resources like oil…Bush’s PRE EMPTIVE DOCTRINE is not only UNAmerican but ILLEGAL and against EVERYTHING THIS COUNTRY HAS ALLEGEDLY STOOD for..
    He has shredded the Constitution, civil and human rights here and abroad along with the SLAUGHTER of hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT people ! Guilty of war crimes to the extent that if the US doesn’t elect the only candidate familiar with CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, and the needs of the working poor, Barak Obama,
    then perhaps we should apologize to the families of German Nazis who were imprisoned or executed after World War 2’s NUREMBERG TRIALS for war crimes
    because our own regime needs change and we all need to relearn what the GENEVA CONVENTIONS are and how they came about. We also need to change this government’s genuflection to aipac/The Lobby/ and those who have an agenda which is driving the Preemptive war ‘policy’ & leading to even more disgust and hatred against this government…with perpetual aerial bombing to create perpetual enemies…

  61. 63 Vijay
    September 16, 2008 at 18:19

    What is the appeal to small town America of Barack HUSSAIN Obama ?
    What is he going to do for you?

  62. 64 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 18:19

    Comparing the US poor to the poor around the world is a little unfair. The poor in the US still live like kings compared to the poor in the third world.

  63. 65 Kenny In Florida
    September 16, 2008 at 18:21

    @ guest on show

    Yes there is two Americas, just like there are two of any country – the rich and the poor. This always was and always will be.

  64. 66 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:21


    i never heared about the fact that americans begrudge helping New Orleans……

    i hate my money going to iraq, though

  65. 67 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 18:21

    Oh gee, the US is “murdering” people in Iraq. Right. Ignore that suicide bombing tha tkilled 35 people. Well, I guess there are socialists in New Mexico after all.

  66. 68 Vijay
    September 16, 2008 at 18:23

    How is the border fence coming along in New Mexico, do you think there should be a bounty on illegal immigrants,I mean if you know someone is illegal and you report them do you think you deserve a reward.

  67. 69 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:24


    no we in NM are all communists…hehehehehehe.

    seriously it is a swing state, though

  68. 70 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:26

    well, in albuquerque many people get actually free treatment at the university of new mexico hospital.

  69. 71 Jessica in NYC
    September 16, 2008 at 18:26


    Not all of us felt that way. I agree with that older gentlemen, Chet (?). Whenever FEMA gives a person in disaster areas money they require they get insurance against whatever disaster they had.

    Re: Car
    As a New Yorker, we don’t have same car issues as others big cities. I would not live in a city small or large that was dependent on cars.

    Small towns vs large cities:
    I can appreciate both. For my work, it requires me to live in a city. When I need to escape NY, small town are just what the doctor ordered.

  70. 72 Lydia
    September 16, 2008 at 18:27

    Please take the bus to another location for more views in America. I am so glad life in Truth or Cosequences is perfect. It isn’t the way in much of the states. I
    think the audience is not a cross section of the town either. The participants sound elitist and self-righteous. No wonder the rest of the world hates us. Take the bus somewhere else.

  71. 73 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 18:28

    If you have a problem with the compensation of Executives, buy some shares in the corporation, otherwise you have no say in how much they get paid.

    And if people are so poor, how are the CEOs getting rich off people’s money if they have no money to buy the product?

    If anything, major pharma companies have programs to provide low costs medicine to poor people. Also, states provide free healthcare to poor people through the MEDICAID program. It’s the MIDDLE CLASS that pays up the wazzu.

  72. 74 1430a
    September 16, 2008 at 18:28

    well i guess i could not put forward my question properly.
    Anyways i have another question:
    1)Do you think the future job seekers will be disappointed in America?
    2)Which of the two presidential candidates do you think can help in solving this problem?-Obama or McMcain
    Thank you

  73. 75 Desiree in Portland Oregon
    September 16, 2008 at 18:28

    After spending many years online chatting with folks around the globe, I have found that our government has done a mighty fine job of covering up how many impoverished folks their are in the US. I my self live in a one bedroom apartment with my 2 kids. People from other countries are often shocked to find this out.
    I do agree that Americans have this throw away, buy more, buy bigger arrogance that needs to change. Most folks seem unwilling to change unless they have been through or are in a crisis.

  74. 76 Jessica in NYC
    September 16, 2008 at 18:29

    @ Jens,

    You’re in NM? You should have been there!

    @ T&C people,

    You sold me, next time I’m in NM I’m def spending some of my tourist dollars in your town.

  75. 77 Brian Larson
    September 16, 2008 at 18:30

    @Alby As a rural westerner, I agree with you, the “western myth” is a ridiculous, out moded, dangerous way of thinking. It has led to poor decision making, for example Bush’s military actions, Clinton and Bush’s loosing of banking regulations in the name of laizze faire caitalism, and untrained arbitrary gun ownership as a human right. Rugged individualism, while a good, has its place. But it has gone way overboard and become an ideological cartoon and cure all for the Republican Party.

  76. 78 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:30

    actually, switzerland has a health care system that is mandatory but privately run. if one cannot afford it the goverment will help pay for it, so every one is covered. overall the health care stystem is better than in the usa, BUT equally expensive

  77. September 16, 2008 at 18:31

    My name is Greg, and I am an American economics student studying abroad in Switzerland. The problem in the US can be blamed on policy and global markets, but the fact is that Americans have been living beyond their means for many years, and spending more than they earn.

  78. September 16, 2008 at 18:32

    Jenn from philly. The us does not do enough to help its people. At least the people who do not makes ton of money. People need to stop spending so much.

  79. 81 Thea Winter - Indianapolis IN, USA
    September 16, 2008 at 18:33

    universal health care?
    My friend Leatrice has relations in Canada and they have universal health care. Well, they waited for a long time and once they got the care it was BAD! The DR. did not give her enough pain killer. When she screamed out in pain the DR. just continued with the care. I don’t think I want that!

  80. September 16, 2008 at 18:34

    It’s well and good to have all these people in a cute little spa town speak ill of life in the city. There are many, many good people living modest lives in America’s cities and many more that are struggling to have any life at all. It’s completely unfair to for those personally dissatisfied with city life to say the city people of America are the the most wasteful.

    Cleveland, OH

  81. 83 Jessica in NYC
    September 16, 2008 at 18:34

    @ Steve

    “If you have a problem with the compensation of Executives, buy some shares in the corporation, otherwise you have no say in how much they get paid.”

    I see, they have cannot have say about this, but you who claim not to vote (or voting in this election) can preach about politics on WHYS. Thankfully, double standards aren’t a prerequisite free speech. Nice, isn’t it?

  82. September 16, 2008 at 18:34

    America’s Government is run by multinational corporations. There are few institutions today that are more inept and and un-responsive to their citizens.
    How many countries bath in drinking water? We are a country that is run by the Bush doctrine which not only will attack unprovoked ,but will do what it can to hog any and all resources the world over. Non sequitors that are not un-related.

    Blackie Ray

  83. September 16, 2008 at 18:34

    You know I am hearing a lot of people there saying the right things! I am positively shocked. I don’t think people in the US begrudge helping other Americans. I believe one quest hit it right on the head. 10 billion a month in a place 10 K miles away is ridiculous.


  84. 86 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:35

    @ jessica,

    i would have considered it if i knew about it, but T&C is quite a trip from albuquerque. it is very beautiful down there though.

    have you ever tried hatch chillis…..they are the best chillis in the world

  85. September 16, 2008 at 18:35

    I’ve been listening to the show this morning, and I’ve simply got to say: Yes, the Wall Street crash is a big deal. Whether you live in a big city or a little town, or in a cave, the economy will affect you at some point in the future. Turning a blind eye, or saying “it doesn’t affect me because I don’t own a SUV or have credit card debt” is completely ignorant. Good for you TRC, but who cares? Your attitudes are completely egotistical, just in a different way from the “big city” people. Look at the history of the US economy. The Depression can and will come again, and turning a blind eye won’t keep you from being homeless and starving. We ALL have to be vigilant, and urge our government to fix the situation. If you don’t like the government, run for office and do more that complaining.

    West Linn, Oregon

  86. 88 Tom D Ford
    September 16, 2008 at 18:35

    That Air Force vet complained that the US government always fails at running anything.

    Well it fails because Conservative Republicans sabotage every attempt by the American people to make our country work better for all of our people instead of just working for a few very wealthy Conservative Republicans.

    Let’s throw those wealthy Conservative Republican bums out of office and let’s make President Lincolns idea into reality, a government of the People, by the People, and for the People!

  87. September 16, 2008 at 18:35

    I’m wondering what the people in Truth or Consequences make of the fact that the US spends the same proportion of GDP (give or take a couple of %) on public healthcare, as the UK does, to serve its whole population?


  88. 90 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 18:36

    @ Jessica

    This is how a corporation works, only what the shareholders want is what matters, so long as the corporation is fufilling its charter, and isn’t breaking state/federal law, what you want it to do doesn’t matter. The shareholders are what matters to a corporation. Want proof? Try to sue a company over an internal business practice while not being a shareholder. You’ll get laughed out of court, because you have no standing to sue. If you want a say in how a company is run, you have to own shares in it, otherwise you have no say.

  89. September 16, 2008 at 18:36

    People would be LESS responsible for their health than they are now.Most diseases like diabetes,heart,obesity are Choice related and preventable.Bad Dietary Choices cause these diseases.Even most cancer is probably caused by our BAD diets,because we destroy our natural biochemistry with sugar and chlestdrol and uric acid.The safetynet of free insuramce makes being irresponsible too easy.

    Helen Salka listening on WCPN.

  90. September 16, 2008 at 18:36

    The us has two different kinds of people. The wealthy 10% who have no major worries and the 90% who have to wonder if they’re going to be able to eat or have medicine. As a country we’ve been over spending for years and we need to stop and focus on the little things. Like saving money and providing health care to all and and education.

    Jenn from philadelphia.

  91. September 16, 2008 at 18:37

    Americans say they don’t want “the State” involved in their health care making decisions.

    BUT as an Brit who’se lived in the USA 11 years and has seen health care from both sides of the fence, private here and state in the UK, I can tell you with certainty that OFTEN in the USA health care decisions are made not by doctors or by the state but by poorly trained insurance clerks who are the ‘gate keepers’ of the insurance companies and are paid to fight every claim. You have to learn how to work the system to get what your policy says that in theory that you are entitled to.

    At least in the UK no one asks to see you check book.

    Here the ER rooms are full of people who should be with a primary care physician but can’t because they have no insurance. Those of us with insurance pay for those without by increased charges.

    I have much personal experience of this. I could go on at length…………..


  92. 94 Trent West
    September 16, 2008 at 18:38

    Universal health is a great idea as long as it stays out of my check book. I DO NOT WANT TO PAY MORE TAXES, PERIOD! If someone can come up with a way to do it with out increasing my taxes I am all for it. I believe in Capitalism and I want to keep as much of my money as possible.

    I am sick and tired of paying for stuff for other people, and yes I drive a 2008 Chevy Tahoe. I hear people say health care is a right, maybe as long as we all pay in the pot.

  93. 95 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:39

    health care does not need to be expensive if it is not run for profit…the issue is that often one does not need the most expensive scan for a broken leg. x-ray is just fine. however, here in the usa litigation is a big issue so the best and most expensive tests have become routine for even the smallest problem.

  94. 96 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 18:40

    Seriously, if my taxes are going to pay for other people’s healthcare, then I have a right to make people lose weight and stop smoking and to eat more healthy food. If you can’t deal with that, then it shouldn’t be paid with public funds. Otherwise you’ll just enable people to behave even worse, and then get bailed out by the taxpayer until they die from it.

  95. 97 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 18:42

    Actually we do blame some people with aids for getting aids. Some people refuse to use condoms. We don’t blame the child of someone with aids, we don’t blame people with blood transfusions, but we do blame people who were irresponsible. Doesn’t mean we don’t treat them, but their irresponsibility led to their infection.

  96. 98 Julie
    September 16, 2008 at 18:44

    I barely pay for my family’s health coverage each month… I pay it though. I often wonder why since I still have medical bills piling up due to the deductibles that I need in able to afford any coverage! I feel I would be better off not having coverage at all and just filing bankrupcy if a catastrophe occurs. Won’t we get the care even if we don’t have coverage? To me… it’s pay my health coverage costs and go bankrupt now, or keep my money and go bankrupt later.

  97. 99 David Williams
    September 16, 2008 at 18:44

    Dear World have you say,

    I think that the USA, is stuck in the dark ages. Its the only developed western country that does not have free health care. One of the basic rights I believe of any free person in the western world is free health care. If Europe can do it why cant the USA which is the largest econony in the World. Of course no system is perfect, but much worse is letting poor people die because they can not afford basic medice.



  98. 100 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:44


    the issue how far will you go in telling who is living healthy. ok somking, obesity etc are things we can define. what abouut dangerouse sports like soccer??? what about infectiouse diseases, everybody needs to wipe down door knobs…..how far will we go.

    one needs to remember that i paid more in tax contributions in the UK for my health care that i do here, even if i factor in my employers contribution

  99. September 16, 2008 at 18:45

    You don’t need to increase taxes for socialized health care, the US just needs to stop empire-building. I also would disagree with the woman who wanted personal responsibility. I agree that that is an extremely important virtue, but my mother is the most healthy woman I know, and yet she got cancer. So responsibility has nothing to do with it.

    Greg from the US

  100. September 16, 2008 at 18:45

    @ healthcare,

    When people stop asking their government to give them better insurance and start asking them why we can’t afford to pay the doctor when we are ill, movement towards correcting the problem will begin. Insurance companies help to keep prices artificially high. If more people couldn’t afford to pay the cost of medicine, the medical practices would have to charge a market price.

  101. 103 Paul Harbin - Waco, tx.
    September 16, 2008 at 18:45

    I heard someone say, we have to try harder to make people with wealth look better.

    Just be better, and your well deserved accolades will follow.

    Do people with money not like to address the fact that right now in this economy, the “little-man” is taking the brunt of the blunders caused from high-powered greed? Would it be so wrong if the people at the top of the economic food chain bare the weight of the burden for a given amount of time?

    People talk about government getting involved is bad, when government stepped further away from banking … look at what happened.

    Remember, government is …. for the people by the people …
    so, if we don’t have faith in our government we don’t have faith in our selves.
    if we want it to work, we need to make it work. It’s that simple.

    And should doctors offices whom give out prescriptions be allowed to hold shares in pharma. companies of drugs the prescribe? or should they be allowed to write prescriptions from that company?

    I think the simple problem isn’t all the mechanisms in question, it’s the state of the people who are forming them, regulating them, getting involved with them, or not getting involved with them.

    We the people need to change more so then all the mechanisms we like to point the finger at. If we do so, the mechanisms will have no choice to change for the better, but again first we have to change for the better.

    that seem like a very borderline conflict of interest issue to me.

  102. September 16, 2008 at 18:46

    In order to compete in the globalized world (where most manual/blue collar jobs are being out-sourced), the education system needs to be revamped in the developed countries. We need a more highly skilled work force in the developed world. This was a point recently put across by the Intel boos too. We need to train teachers better to educate kids. I feel most kids are missing out on developing their true potential because of many incompetent teachers.

    Although the USA has more universities than any other countries, I am not convinced that it has the best education sys (I am a Singaporean wh has been here since 1995; currently working on my phd). In fact I am not at all happy with the system In S’pore too. Furthermore, there are many problems in the junior schools and high schools here (as I spelled out above).

    Do you feel more needs to be done in the USA? Is it because there is too much government control on the sys resulting in lack of competition (in coming up with a better education sys and, thus, better teachers)?

    Palo Alto, CA

  103. 105 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 18:46

    Just people know, even in nationalized health care systems, dental usually isn’t covered by it. Ask a canadian.

  104. September 16, 2008 at 18:46

    1. 80 degrees is just comfortable…wait ’til you’re in a place in NM that has 90 degrees!!!
    2. If you’re getting this live, ask the residents if they have a grocery store that serves meat and veggies as well as canned stuff. Our town over over 9000 has NO grocery store and many houses.

    Mary Crofts, Monmouth, Oregon

    PS We used to have all the stores anyone ever needed, but then our city council decided to go the route of being a bedroom community.

  105. September 16, 2008 at 18:47

    Access to healthcare must be improved for the poor in America.


  106. September 16, 2008 at 18:48

    My question to the people in New Mexico is why cry about health care without coming up with a solution. If you believe the government’s involvement is not a solution and the private health care system is not working, then please tell the world what yuor proposed solution should be. Stop the whinning.

    British Columbia , Canada

  107. 109 Paul Harbin - Waco, tx.
    September 16, 2008 at 18:49

    And should doctors offices whom give out prescriptions be allowed to hold shares in pharma. companies of drugs the prescribe? or should they be allowed to write prescriptions from that company?

    **that seems like a very borderline conflict of interest issue to me.**

  108. September 16, 2008 at 18:49

    Many people stay on in jobs they would rather leave because they need their health benefits. This is not an efficient way to run an economy, linking jobs to health insurance.

    Isabelle in California

  109. 111 Kenny In Florida
    September 16, 2008 at 18:49

    People in the states are afraid of the word “socialized” as in socialized heath care. It just plain frightens them, though they have no problem using the local library, sending their kids to public schools, or calling the police when their house in broken into. Aren’t these socialistic systems, being that they are for the people and yet payed by the government?

  110. 112 Jessica in NYC
    September 16, 2008 at 18:49

    @ Steve,

    “And if people are so poor, how are the CEOs getting rich off people’s money if they have no money to buy the product?”

    Seriously? You went to law school surely you had an economics 101 in undergrad. Your being sarcastic and not serious.

    Some of these CEOs are not getting rich off the people who cannot afford their products, but they are exploiting or taking advantage of poor people by hiring them at minimum wage or less to make products they can never afford to buy that are sold to the rich.

  111. September 16, 2008 at 18:49

    Medicare is a joke. Many people don’t get care because doctors refuse Medicare patients.

    Kevin in the US

  112. 114 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 18:50

    “Public” Housing would mean that it’s subsidized rented. People wanted to BUY homes, that’s why the subprime was such an issue. People who couldn’t afford to buy were buying. People need to give up the idea they are entitled to own a home.

  113. September 16, 2008 at 18:50

    American’s own greed under the auspicious of capitalism keeps us from having universal health care.

    Vanessa in Portland, Oregon

  114. 116 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:50

    the housing issue was caused by well off middle class people who bought to big house houses and then went bust

  115. September 16, 2008 at 18:50

    In response to the lady on your program who says Medicare works ‘pretty well’ she is correct. Unfortunately according to economists the money for Medicare – with the Baby Boomers coming into retirement age – is not there! Medicare is going to further bankrupt our country because we have no way to fund it.

    Bob in Northern California, USA

  116. 118 Mike in Portland
    September 16, 2008 at 18:50

    I’m a bedside nurse here in Oregon – 25 years. We need a National Health Care System. It needs to include free health promotion (i.e. vouchers for health clubs) free disease prevention annual health exams, cheap generic meds), and reasonably priced (regulated) acute and catastrophic care packages. And let’s get rid of this ridiculous “rugged individualism.” That’s one of the reasons Americans don’t connect as well as Europeans.

  117. September 16, 2008 at 18:51

    I agree with the gentleman who said that people in the U.S. who own five huge houses, suv’s etc. are a small percentage of our population however as an American I hope and pray that our citizens pay close attention to the upcoming election and the issues that are vitally important to the health of our nation as well as the health of the world and how it perceives us.

    I find it ironic that many of us are struggling to keep our heads – – – some of us literally – – – above water while there is a candidate running for the highest position in this country and he doesn’t even know how many houses he owns! I listen to the speeches of both candidates and when I heard one say we should, “stay the course” the hair stood up on the back of my neck. Four more years of this? No thank you!

    We need a health care system that works for everyone. We need to educate our children. How do we pay for this? If I’m not mistaken, wouldn’t one or two days of this war pay for making sure all of our children get an education?

    West Linn, Oregon

  118. 120 Lauren
    September 16, 2008 at 18:51

    Does the personal responisiblity apply to people who are able to get health insurance through work? Should we require everyone to lose weight, stop smoking, cut back on drinking and eat healthy, or is it just the ones who can’t afford coverage?

  119. 121 Jane
    September 16, 2008 at 18:51

    I AM and AMERICAN, as well.
    I lived in the US until my 25th year and then moved to the Czech Republic. My sister’s family had to declare bankruptcy three years ago due to inability to pay for the remainder of medical costs left over AFTER their insurance paid. They owed only 10,000 dollars.
    I live with nationalized health care and can tell you that the peace of mind I have is invaluable. If I fall over in the street (for whatever reason) I will be taken care of.
    Of course, I pay taxes for it. I do so GLADLY.
    And of course the bureaucracy takes a large portion of it. I still pay it GLADLY.
    I am not threatened by sudden bankruptcy and would therefore be able to concentrate on recovering my health.
    I pay these taxes and I do so GLADLY.

    By the by, the folks in ToC sound fantastic. These have to be the most politically aware and intelligent folks you’ve talked to yet.
    They’ve renewed my faith in the my fellow voters.
    May this find you happy and healthy.

  120. 122 Brian Larson
    September 16, 2008 at 18:52

    To the gentleman who went bankrupt on health care. The state and your creditors paid since you weren’t able to pay your bill.
    Yes, homeownership is leading folks to invest too much of their assets in a home.

  121. September 16, 2008 at 18:52

    If you think Capitalism is “wrong”, what you are then proposing is Socialism. Do your research on Socialist societies before you make these comments.

    Those who believe America deserves (come uppins) its financial demise are cutting their noses to spite their face.

    Why do people in TorC believe all people, in the cities, the suburbs, and the rural towns should all be in the same financial situation? Why are they so prejudiced toward people who choose to live in the city? Why are they prejudiced against those who worked hard to achieve a wealthy lifestyle?

    I work in a large hospital in downtown Portland, Oregon. I can’t live out in the rural country, not unless I want to spend almost 4 hours commuting to work.

    What do the people of TorC believe is the maximum percentage of taxes we should pay for government controlled business and programs? We are already at 35%, so how about almost 70%? Like those in some European countries.

    If the government takes over healthcare, paid with taxes, the nursing and medical staff shortage will increase. How will R&D be paid for? What about the cost of medical supplies and equipment? Is the government going to regulate all the various medical supply companies as well? How much will that cost the tax payers?

    Karen in the US

  122. 124 Liz Sobczak
    September 16, 2008 at 18:52

    The pastor who is all about personal responsibility claimed bankruptcy. That put his burden on the rest of us. It would be less expensive to pay for everyone up front!

  123. September 16, 2008 at 18:52

    Despite what you guest say about themselves, their comments are that of typical Americans
    who can’t look themselves in the mirror and say, “this lifestyle is NOT sustainable”. They live in
    a bubble, in their small town and therefore have too small a world view point despite living in a country
    with 300 million other people -which justifies what the rest of the world thinks in a sense about being
    self centered & ignorant. Like the Bay Area (Oakland, CA) where I live, it’s really easy to hide
    our heads in the sand concerning the rest of Americans and the piss poor values & attitudes me first,
    pulling up my own bootstraps: If if doesn’t effect me directly, it doesn’t exist:
    the real reason why America has no Universal Health care system.

    Oakland, CA

  124. September 16, 2008 at 18:53

    We, in Canada, do not have a perfect health care system, but it is miles better than anything you have in the USA. Get the fatcats out of your Health care system and learn to share your wealth with others, with your fellow Americans and with the rest of the World.


  125. 127 Chuck
    September 16, 2008 at 18:53

    The man who said he was against socialized medicine because no one else was responsible for the health care of him and his wife. He went on to say he had to file bankruptcy against the medical bills. Doesn’t he REALIZE that by filing bankruptcy that the rest of his ended up having to pay for the health care that went unpaid in the bankruptcy through higher prices for OUR health care. We ended up paying for his wife’s medical bills anyway.

    Portland, Oregon USA

  126. 128 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 18:53

    @ jessica:

    “but they are exploiting or taking advantage of poor people by hiring them at minimum wage or less to make products they can never afford to buy that are sold to the rich.”

    I was referring to pharma, and pharma doesn’t pay minimum wage to any of it’s employees.

    I assure you, not only the rich use medications produced by pharma.

    You’ve completely changed the subject from somethinga bout socialized medicine/healthcare/ to just being against capitalism period. Stay on topic please.

  127. September 16, 2008 at 18:53

    Did I just hear a Christian clergyman say it’s not our responsibility to take care of each other? What happened to being our brother’s keeper, and charity and community?

    Cleveland, Ohio, US

  128. September 16, 2008 at 18:56

    I feel so sorry for all of the people in America who do not have basic health care coverage. Although our health care system in Canada is not perfect, ( yes, we do have to wait for some services and we do have an aging population), it does serve the majority of our populace quite well.

    We are never on the hook for any type of medical emergency even if it stems from a pre-existing condition. It is quite funny for us to hear our system so maligned by U.S. Republican politicians every time there is a Presidential election.

    It might be true that “God helps those who help themselves” but up here in Canada, we all help each other and it works fine… And in response to one of your speakers… we are not all the same and neither are our houses.

    Michael in Vancouver

  129. September 16, 2008 at 18:56

    I am from Spain, according WHO (World Health Organization) the 7th in the world. As a American resident it was a big surprise for me the first year to listen so many stories about horrow health care crisis just in my 6 first months here. I promise I have never hear this stories in my country and also my big surprise was that even people here paying private insuarances they have at least the same waiting lists for medical attention. In my country nobody waits for thoughs problems, just for minor problems and for my experience is mostly the same here.

    I am not Anti-american, I love this country for many things but this problem is a KAOS. Last week one of my friends, a college professor had to go to Singapour to have a colonoscopy because here the insuarance only convered a part and the total amount was around $20,000. In Singapour just 3000$ and the big surprise, my father, the same week on Spain had the same medical test, for zero cost.

    Greetings from Texas,


  130. 132 Thea Winter - Indianapolis IN, USA
    September 16, 2008 at 18:56

    People need to live in a budget and not have more home then they can pay for!!
    And more peopel need to feed the PIG (save money) Not just in 401K’s.

  131. September 16, 2008 at 18:56

    Ok, here is something that I don’t understand. The so called leaders in Washington are talking about the financial problems this nation is facing, but where are the wonderful legislators, Barney Frank and Chuck Schumer in relation to Freddie Mac & Fannie May. There is an unbelievable corruption in Washington, a corruption that surpasses all the corrupted leaders in Latin America.

    Where are the hearings? Wait, the liberals are involved and no hearing are needed.

    In 2004 and 2006 Senator McCain was the only person that sent the warning about the financial institutions and the corruption of the people in the financial market.

  132. September 16, 2008 at 18:57

    There is too much greed in the U.S., even when there is more than plenty for everyone here in the U.S. When I travel abroad and return to my modest home of 3 bedrooms and indoor plumbing, clean water– I feel so lucky to have what I have. Only when I watch on t.v. or
    magazines, do I begin to wonder if what I have is adequate or not. There are shows that display lives of the “rich and famous” and movie stars lives. I am tired of it all. I long for a more simple attitude. When is enough, enough?

    And also, the bankers may be unethical, but ultimately the consumers make their own choice. No one is forcing them to buy.

    Morelia from Portland Oregon

  133. September 16, 2008 at 18:57

    The USA does not have preventative medicine. Health is a social issue, we need to be responsible for our community health. The insurance companies are the ones telling us what we can do. My 3 year old cannot have a well child check because the insurance won’t pay for it. It will pay only if he is already sick. The isurance is setting the time when he can have checks. Not the Doctor.
    Also I do not like to use alot of pharmaceutical drugs and the medicare and most isurance companies do not cover natural supplements that keep my health. Also they do not cover alot of functional lab tests that will check suboptimal problems that will prevent health issues latter in life.

  134. 136 Martha
    September 16, 2008 at 18:57

    Dear T&C,
    Insurance companies? How do y’all feel about their role in the current health care debate.
    Also, where do the huge agribusiness fit in with respect to “lifestyle choices”?

  135. September 16, 2008 at 18:57

    Anyone who doesn’t believe that money doesn’t solve anything is ignoring the plethera of advances in healthcare. It cost money to pay the tens of thousands of researchers and their equipment to find cures and medicines to treat cancer, HIV-AIDS, hearing loss, and countless other conditions. Wise use of money does bring about solutions.

    Dan in The US

  136. September 16, 2008 at 18:57

    American government should influence citizens to go for insurance or government of America should provide insurance and give subsidies for insurance instead of investing on HEALTH CARE. By providing Subsidies insurance it will also help American citizens for future.

    Shuvo in Bangladesh

  137. 139 Adam
    September 16, 2008 at 18:58

    For all the complaint I have heard about the inefficiency and bueracracy of healthcare run by the government, I never hear anyone talk about what a sorry state our cities police and firefighting forces are in as a result of being run by governments. If we are going to be really libertarian about this issue shouldn’t we also insist on various murder and assault insurances in order to obtain help from law enforcement agents.

  138. 140 Roy
    September 16, 2008 at 18:58

    Americans need to understand that a government run health insurance plan will be optional. You can still buy additional insurance from a private insurer.

  139. 141 Lauren
    September 16, 2008 at 18:58

    @ Kenny in FL

    Well said! People have a knee-jerk reaction to the word “socialism” and assume that a socialized system will prevent capitalism. What people don’t seem to get is that we are already paying for healthcare for the unisured! When someone who had no access to preventative care winds up in the hospital, tax payers are flipping the bill! An ER visit costs way more than a trip to the doctors, so where would you rather have your money go?

  140. 142 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 18:58

    It’s not a “personal decision” when your tax dollars are affected by someone else’s decision. The more people who make poor health decisions, such as being overweight or smokers, means more healthcare costs, meaning YOUR tax dollars will be spent to pay for their “decision”. That’s why it’s your business as a taxpayer in a socialized health system.

  141. September 16, 2008 at 18:58

    People keep saying “throwing money at a problem won’t fix it”. That is meaningless.

    I’m tired of my car breaking down all the time as well as having lots of flat tires. I can fix this with money. Get car repaired and get new tires. That cost money, but it fixed the problem.

    People say that the education system is a mess thus government programs don’t work. Would we be better off with the government completely stepping out of education?


  142. 144 ben
    September 16, 2008 at 18:58

    Answer to question about who makes the decisions? They’re called actuaries and they make it their job decided who’s decisions will cost less than others.

  143. 145 Rob
    September 16, 2008 at 18:58

    I’m a UK citizen & been living in San Francisco USA for 5 years now. Interesting conversation about healthcare. I’m a type 1 diabetic, so very reliant on my health insurance. I’ve lived in the UK, France, and Holland before the US. The care I receive here is marginally better than in Europe, although I do have to deal with insurance companies which is very annoying… Moreover, unfortunately many people do not have the coverage I have… What’s the best system? Well, America has a choice to make… do people want to live in a more equitable society? If so, it will have to pay for it and invest in its citizenry… This means national healthcare, social security, good public schools, etc. Government can work with proper oversight. Sadly, few Americans see this.

  144. September 16, 2008 at 18:59

    It amazes me that so many Americans vilify the government’s inefficiency, while Big Pharma is quite efficiently fleecing us blind. I don’t get it. The highway system, much of the power grid, Medicare, the Post Office, Amtrack …. even if not paragons of “efficiency” some things require all of us, and historically we’ve done pretty well. The government is Us. If we let them screw us over, it’s our own fault. Corporate America is another matter.

    Listening on OPB.

  145. 147 Paul Harbin - Waco, tx.
    September 16, 2008 at 18:59

    I beg to differ with that woman that called herself a welfare-pig.
    FAR from.

    a welfare-pig is the people on welfare who have gold teeth, big gold rings, beer, and 6 packs.

  146. 148 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:59

    where in albuquerque are you going????????

  147. 149 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 18:59

    and what time???

  148. September 16, 2008 at 18:59

    I have been a single mother, and I am currently married with two children. No one should postpone seeing the doctor because they have no money. And I would be willing to pay more taxes if necessary for better healthcare — for everyone — even those making poor choices with their health (i.e. smoking, overeating, not exercising, etc.) We can’t predict or know who will be healthy or not, but I think in the long run, we would ALL benefit if our society is healthier on the whole. I think many problems could be taken care of early before they develop into worse and more expensive problems if people aren’t afraid to get help.

    Morelia in Portland, Oregon

  149. 151 Jessica in NYC
    September 16, 2008 at 19:00


    Excellent show. Thanks to the people of T&C.

  150. 152 Miriam
    September 16, 2008 at 19:00

    For those of you who believe that America’s impoverished are SOOO much better off than the poor elsewhere…well, lets say that they’ve never seen the kinds of deprivation that AMERICANS in many areas of the country live wiht…even Mother Theresa stated that there is an impoverishment of the spirit here that she NEVER found even in Calcutta…an isolative, punitive sort of treatment…As an example let me share this short example..several years ago a member of our community served as a guardian for an international student exchange, housing a smart and sweet young man of 16 from Gaza for his senior year of high school here in Albuquerque. As a parting gift for him the guardian drove him thru the Southwest on the way to Disneyland in Southern Calif. They went thru Navajo/Dineh Reservation and she stated that he was STUNNED to see the poverty that they lived with. He called him Mother back in Gaza and said something like this: “Mom mom! you would not believe how poor these people are here in the Navajo reservation!! they dont have anyting here, not electricity, not running water, roads, NOTHING MOM! they look as poor as our people if not sadder!”…. There are many other places around the US where people may have a bit more or a bit less than this but MOST Americans are completly ignorant and blind to this reality. So completely do folks believe that “WE” are so wealthy …but the only stories we really always hear are about the ultra wealthy..the celebs, the corporate CEOs who earn more in one year than many countries have as GNP. OPEN YOUR EYES AMERICA!! WAKE UP AMERICA!! Starve and bomb a few more thousands of INNOCENT PEOPLE..

  151. September 16, 2008 at 19:00

    Ok, here is something that I don’t understand. The so called leaders in Washington are talking about the financial problems this nation is facing, but where are the wonderful legislators, Barney Frank and Chuck Schumer in relation to Freddie Mac & Fannie May. There is an unbelievable corruption in Washington, a corruption that surpasses all the corrupted leaders in Latin America.

    Where are the hearings? Wait, the liberals are involved and no hearing are needed.

    In 2004 and 2006 Senator McCain was the only person that sent the warning about the financial institutions and the corruption of the people in the financial market.

    Salt Lake City, Utah

  152. 154 John Eichenlaub
    September 16, 2008 at 19:02

    It seem to me that a rational health care system would:

    2) protect the powerless: INITIATE A MEANS TESTED HEALTH CARE SYSTEM

    John L Eichenlaub
    Akron OH

  153. 155 Michael
    September 16, 2008 at 19:06

    re: personal responsibility and healthcare

    The focus of “health care” could shift from disease management and crisis intervention by engaging all people’s personal responsibility to improve their health and move toward wellness.

    Everyone could start out at the same premium and premium increases would not be based so much upon each individual’s vices, but on their effort to overcome them. Annual physicals and evaluations would be required for all persons. The result of which would be recommendations for ALL people to improve their health, whether they are above or below average.

    If a smoker refuses to try to quit, the premium goes up . . . if the obese person refuses to try to make necessary lifestyle changes, the premium goes up . . . if the reasonably average seemingly healthy person refuses to exercise regularly or eat more balanced meals to prevent future problems, the premium goes up . . . such recalcitrant individuals could also be required to get counseling to help them make the changes, but refusals to seek or follow-up with the counseling would raise their rates.

  154. 156 Paul Harbin - Waco, tx.
    September 16, 2008 at 19:07

    Actually, withing the next 20 years the American infrastructure will be in dire condition if action doesn’t begin soon. Dams, road and bridges all over the country are in high degrade. The average life expectancy of most roads, bridges and damns is 50 years. The bulk of damns in the us were built in the 50’s-70’s. I think the numbers is something like .. 85% inside of 20 years (dams) with be past their life expectancy.

    Yet instead of taking care of that, here, we are off in another country that we are not wanted in, trying to build roads and bridges. and throwing money into an infrastructure that get blown up here and there.

  155. 157 Lauren
    September 16, 2008 at 19:07

    @ john

    That sounds pretty rational to me– you should be in politics! All we’ll have to do is find a why to prioritize funding so that billions aren’t going towards starting wars, bailing out corporations etc

  156. September 16, 2008 at 19:07

    There are two ways to generate revenue from your product. One way is to sell a few of them at a large profit margin. A brand new BMW for instance is not a staple of the projects. It is a product that falls in the “status symbol” or “wants” category of the wealthy. The BMW Company and its CEO are eating well.

    The other way is to get very large number of people to buy your low priced products. These are often products that fall in the “needs” category. Let us say that BMW sells 1000 cars at a $20,000 profit. Then consider that Wal-Mart sells 20 million pieces of Chinese ehhm “goods” at $1 profit. The end result is a $20 million profit

    You don’t need to be rich to buy a $2 stick of underarm deodorant, but you do need it. The store down the street charges $3 for it. When you only bring home 5 dollars an hour, that extra $1 cost you 20 min. of work.

  157. 159 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 19:14

    @ Dwight

    Just so you know, I see luxury cars, including BMWs and Mercedes’ in public housing parking lots all the time.

    And actually, to lease a BMW isn’t that expensive given their resale value. The status people tend to do that, so people can think they are important because they drive a BMW.

    The funniest is VW, the “pre-rich” mentality car. major warning sign.

  158. 160 Essexgirl
    September 16, 2008 at 19:20

    Americans say they don’t want “the State” involved in their health care making decisions. BUT as an Brit who has lived in the USA 11 years and has seen health care from both sides of the fence – private here and state in the UK – I can tell you with certainty that OFTEN in the USA health care decisions are made not by doctors or by the state but by poorly trained insurance clerks who are the ‘gate keepers’ of the insurance companies and are paid to fight every claim.

    One brief example – I spent seven months fighting my insurance company after a clerk over-ruled the decision of an orthopedic surgeon as to what type of cast my son should have on his broken wrist. It took many letters and phone calls and even a few tears of frustration but I won at arbitration. How much did that cost the insurance company? Quite ridiculous.

    You have to learn how to work the system to get what your policy says that in theory that you are entitled to. It has been a sharp learning curve, and, on occasion, a full time job.

    At least in the UK no one asks to see you check book when you take an injured child to the ER.

    Here the ER rooms are full of people with children who should be with a primary care physician but can’t, because they have no insurance. Those of us with insurance pay for those without by increased charges. And many many people stay on in jobs they should leave, because they don’t want to lose their benefits. Businesses put off firing people it no longer has real use for, because they know they will lose health care (I’ve seen this.)

    It’s a really inefficient way to run an economy, linking health care to people’s jobs.

    I could go on at length…

  159. 161 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 19:21


    VW, especially diesel, have great gas milage……AND are not that expensive

  160. 162 John Foster
    September 16, 2008 at 19:24

    Dear Ros,

    What I heard that I wish someone would challenge is the idea that Government can not do anything good, and the corrallary, the private sector does everything much better and more efficiently, etc. It has become almost religious orthodoxy in this country. There is some truth in each statement, but living in the Bay Area I see everyday examples of work taken on and accomplished by various levels of government, and some partnerships with the private sector: the Golden Gate Bridge, The University of California, the whole highway system, I use the internet everyday and the semiconductor, and I breath cleaner air…not to mention the Eerie Canal, the space program, Hoover dam, the VA, Social Security. Maybe these have downsides, but they have brought about huge public good as well, not to mention some private good too.
    So if we do not recognize that the expression of our collective will, the government, can perform, then we limit our energy and innovation to a sector that will only perform if they can profit off it. And the private sector has not taken on some projects (like the national highway system) because they could not profit off it. I think our innovation and energy can be harnessed by government. We should expect government to work better and it is our responsibility as citizens to make it work better, if it really is a government for the people and by the people.

  161. 163 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 19:28

    @ Jens

    VWs other than the diesels get terrible gas mileage. The new jetta has 2.5 liter 5 cylinder and only gets 32 mpg hwy. The rabbit is even smaller and still only gets 30 mpg. The honda/toyota equivalents get 35-36 mpg. My car has 200 hp and gets 31 mpg, better than the 150 hp jetta.

  162. 164 Realist
    September 16, 2008 at 19:32

    Statistically, there is no doubt that people with a healthy lifestyle have fewer health problems than couch potatoes who eat junk food, swill alcohol, and smoke.

    Individually, it seems a foolish way to decide who gets health care. Two of my friends illustrate.

    Some years ago, my bicycling friend (25 years my junior) died of ovarian cancer when only about 40, despite being physically fit, exercising regularly, enjoying an even healthier diet than I (and I’m a borderline fanatic on proper nutrition). We often took 30-mile after-work bicycle rides — but when we took off our shoes to cool our feet in a river, I watched in awe as she swam across and back.

    The other day I spent six hours with a 92-year-old friend, whom I met in a water aerobics class when she was only 86 (she still attends the class several times a week). During the six hours I spent with her, she repaired a table lamp, regaled me with reminisences of her teaching days, prepared dinner for the two of us, and smoked 7 or 8 cigarettes,

    Life style works for statistics, it’s not much of a predictor when it comes to individuals.

  163. 165 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 19:33


    the problem is that the us versions are not the same as the european ones.

    heck, i have a 16 year old le baron that gets 28 mpg on a 3.6 liter engine……………

  164. 166 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 19:34


    will you have a program in albuquerque tomorrow?

  165. 167 Kenny In Florida
    September 16, 2008 at 19:34

    @ Lauren

    I don’t know where I would rather want my money to go anymore, it seems I don’t have much of it any more, between flipping the bill for the uninsured and covering the backs of our mortgage companies.

  166. 168 steve
    September 16, 2008 at 20:02

    @ Jens

    the 6.2L Corvette gets 26mpg. That’s better than 90% of SUVs out there, even the 4 cylinder ones.

  167. 169 Alby
    September 16, 2008 at 20:02

    @dan in the US

    drug research in this country is one of the most INEFFICIENT businesses supported by govt and private money.

    That example you give is not a good one.

    It would cost a lot less if the industry would implement just part of the Food and Drug Administration’s Critical Path initiative which identifies many ways in which the current ‘free market’ system in inefficient and burning through lots of scarce medicare, medicaid and also private insurance premium money paying for over-iinflated pharmaceuticals. Not to mention the huge marketing and physician ‘outreach’ costs that are unique to the US pharma industry, which also waste lots of taxpayer and businesses’ money.

  168. September 16, 2008 at 20:04

    I knew you were going to bring up the “BMW in the projects” factor. since these status symbols are a sign of prosperity, many people who can’t actually attain it, are marketed these symbols as an illusion. Kind of like plastic surgery for the “beauty challenged.” As you noted though, to make it possible for them to own the BMW, they had to find a way to make it cheaper. So they made the payment period longer.
    First question every car dealer will ask you is “what is the monthly payment you are looking for?” They can adjust interest rates, payment periods, and trade in values to get you to that payment figure.

    I was just trying to use the BMW to generalize. But you bring up an excellent point. If you are a Wealthy CEO making $2 million dollars a year. If you walk into a BMW dealer, pick out your $40,000 BMW you plop the money down in cash on the table (or write a check, cut me some slack.). Tax, title, out the door you pay your $44 grand. If you are poor making about $44 grand a year, you have to finance that car for 6 years. The same car that the “rich guy” paid $44,000 out the door, the poor guy is paying and extra $3000 to $4000 dollars for depending on the interest rate. Continuing on to one more depth in that point. The guy making $44,000 a year is going to have to work an extra 150 hours just to pay for the interest on his new ride.

    The people who have found ways to market and offer people materials that they can’t afford are making money on the backs of the poor. Let us face it poorness breeds ignorance. Ignorance is more susceptible to marketing and bad decision making. Which leads to more poor. The circle is complete.

  169. 171 Alby
    September 16, 2008 at 20:08

    @ john foster
    cool POV and questions

    you are so right. Just look at what happened in Michigan the last few years as a case in point. 600K+ jobs lost because Big Auto lost its way in the world auto marketplace. The management fired all those people and lost $Bs for shareholders, at a moment in history when Tata in India announced the biggest innovation in autos since like the Model T.

    Now, Chinese automakers are hiring US engineers in Michigan because “they have great skills for the world market”. But, why were they let go in the first place?

    Because Big Auto management cannot execute in the world market! It was too much for them to figure out a way to compete in BRIC countries which is where all the growth is going to be for decades.

    So, yeah, I agree with you. And with Lehman, Merrill, Indy Mac, Wamu, Bear Stearns, it is clear that business managers are not any different than anyone running a govt.

    And, the shareholders are clearly not showing up at annual meetings and hammering their management employees about anything. So much for the myths for the contributions to innovation of the management and shareholding class!

  170. 172 Essexgirl
    September 16, 2008 at 20:34

    I have an eight year old VW which gives good mileage (about 35) but I know someone with a BMW which does better. ……. The truth is that most (but not all) European and Japanese cars give much better mileage than most (but not all) American cars, because Europeans have paid realistic gas prices for years and many Americans have bought SUVs that now dealers can’t give away. Very few people actually need a huge SUV and 4 wheel drive and I’m really fed up with people who can’t park taking up 2 spaces in the parking lot with them (like this morning at work.)

    And on health care, no matter how healthily you live (and I do) you can’t ensure an accident free life unfortunately.

    But we are straying from the point which is mostly about the issues under discussion for the USA election and the USA’s future: Here’s a thought on American industry…………..As people more and more buy gas sippers rather than gas guzzlers, the American auto industry has been left in the starting gates because they have failed to plan ahead and invest wisely. They are now running to catch up. I hope they can because I really don’t want to see that many people out of work and all the jobs overseas.

    The future of most consumer products – not just autos – is for vastly increased energy efficiency, less pollution and as much recycling as possible because everyone everywhere is finally getting the message that non renewable resources are finite. The USA is struggling to catch up in many areas of manufacturing

    We need people with technical training, brains and foresight who can invent and be creative. We need to be thinking about what will put food on the table (metaphorically speaking) in 10 or 20 years time. We need people who can think long term, who are dynamic and forward thinking. We must invest in our brains and our intellect, in our infrastructure and our R & D. Otherwise we will go backwards not forwards. There are things the US is great at – how about software, drug research, agriculture, oil exploration? All rely on our brains and training and long term investment not short term interests.

  171. 173 Jens
    September 16, 2008 at 20:48


    i was in vegas over the weekend and came to the sad realization that green issues, like fuel efficent cars, enviromental protection, like not throwing your trash on the ground or recycling is still only considered by few people. the vast majority just do not give two s..ts about this, as it was evident for me this weekend. unless everybody takes part we are fighting a war we cannot win…….seriously we were disgusted by how people behaved.

  172. September 16, 2008 at 21:59

    Hi WHYSErs,

    I am curious to know the extent to which issues of gender matter very seriously in these elections? I heard a report on the BBC that Obama was ‘Palinised’ last week, when he said that the Republicans are trying to hijack the discussion by claiming his remarks about ‘lipstick on a pig’ was sexist and specifically targetted at Sarah Palin.

    It is my view that, discussions like those seem to miss the larger point of whether the question of the novelty of a woman as VP is sufficient to supplant critical issues of energy, the environment and the war? Are they mutually exclusive; that is, the focus on gender and the focus on ‘other’ (more?) important issues?

  173. September 16, 2008 at 22:01

    is it possible to define the concerns of the American Presidential Elections as strictly ‘gender issues’? And, if we can/not, how does that affect the ‘Palin Factor’ in these elections, in your view? I am curious.

  174. September 16, 2008 at 23:20

    Thankfully, AP is now reporting that the economy and the failure of the Lehman and, possibly now, AIG warrant more meaningful attentions for the candidates! The BBC, of course, discussed portions of this yesterday in the live programme on air…Finally! We are passed Pailin!

  175. 177 Brian Larson
    September 16, 2008 at 23:32

    My wife, who is a civil and agricultural engineer, watched for an hour about Sarah Palin on the Fox Channel. I think she idenified with the work, children, outdoor woman, career sucess image. Very effective, a lot of women want what Sarah Palin has. My wife participated in a program offered here by Fish and Game called “Outdoor Woman” where you learn to fish, shoot and prepare food fresh off the hoof. She has had to put up with alot of … in male dominated fields. Stuff that she didn’t tell me about until many years afterwords. She knew how outraged I would be. To her, Palin is a sucessful, assertive woman.
    Disclosure, I disagree almost completely with Palin’s religion and some of her political positions as does my wife, I suspect.

  176. 178 John Foster
    September 17, 2008 at 00:23

    @ Alby

    Thanks. And your earlier point about pharmaceutical research is very good.

    I think in America we have more myths working regarding the ‘separation’ of government and private sectors. In all the examples I site, none of these were actually constructed by government workers. Privately owned (or publicly traded) companies execute all of these, and so it is a real transfer of public money to private hands. But we all get something for it (at least hopefully). In our current problems it is hard to see what we get exactly for all the money pumped into the financial sector. Holding up the house of cards a little longer, perhaps?

  177. 179 Essexgirl
    September 17, 2008 at 00:34

    Sorry Brian….

    But I’m just the opposite of your wife as far as Palin goes, despite working in a male world. I’ve worked in the very macho world of geology and geophysics most of my life, more than 8 years of that offshore, back in the 80s, long before there were any anti-harassment laws so I’ve put up with the same sexist b/s, up to a (mild) physical assault, but I can’t stand Palin or what she stands for. Five kids in this over crowded world?? (I had 2 and got ‘fixed’.) A pregnant teen? Creationism in schools? Mocking intellectuals? I think Palin is an insult to every intelligent, educated woman out there.

    She has little proven experience on the national stage and has been picked purely on her gender and her religion. Utter tokenism of the worst kind. She’s probably put us back 50 years because if she messes up that’s how long it will be before another woman gets a chance.

    I never liked Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher’s politics much at the time, but she was tough as leather, didn’t ask for any special consideration for her gender (British politics is pretty rough as anyone who has ever listened to Prime Minister’s Question Time will know), had a science degree from Oxford University (chemistry), also an MA, worked as a research scientist and then qualified as a barrister (high ranking British lawyer). She was a proven high achiever with a great intellect who had been in the national government at ministerial level (Minister of Education and Science 1970 – 1974) before aiming for the highest office. Didn’t ram religion down our throats either, although she was a practising Methodist. I don’t recall Thatcher ever complaining of sexism. Had the GOP put someone of that calibre up there, I’d be astounded and I’d support her.

    Being able to field dress a moose may not be that much use when discussing nuclear reprocessing with the Iranians or prime interest rates with the Federal Reserve. Some proven intellectual ability just might be. I really can’t believe that this lot (McCain, Palin, or Obama and Biden) are the best this nation can produce to lead the free world at a time of such international tension and need. Nor can I quite believe that women will vote for Palin simply because she can hold down a job and raise kids. We all do that every day.

    This country is begiining to reward mediocrity, and that depresses me.

  178. 180 Jennifer
    September 17, 2008 at 01:03

    @ Brian

    I agree with your wife. I don’t hunt and I don’t fish but I find Sarah Palin to be very refreshing. She is not from Washington, she has experience, and she also has a family. Of course Obama supporters are going to try to pick out her faults because they desperately need to win back some of their popularity. I am not sure they can at this point.

  179. 181 steve
    September 17, 2008 at 01:07

    @ Jennifer

    Though Palin is only running for VP and not President, Bush ran under the “I’m not from Washington” thing to. And once they get here, they are Washington.

    It’s kind of weird hearing “washington” as an insult for people, as it’s my home, but I understand why they say it, and especially “inside the beltway” and I live inside the beltway as well..

    She’s still a politician, still has aspirations that are for her, not for the people, like all other politicians, and that’s why I don’t care about this election, or any one, though I might be concerned about local elections.

  180. 182 Jennifer
    September 17, 2008 at 02:18

    @ Steve

    I know that politicians have their own motives but I still think she’s not as bad as Biden or even Obama. When I say that she’s not from Washington I mean that she’s different and will bring change that maybe other people who are already there can not because of their connections.

    As my mom says, if you don’t vote you can’t complain. You should vote anyway. All elections are important.

  181. 183 steve
    September 17, 2008 at 02:29

    @ Jennifer

    I respect your views, just like everyone here, but she’s stil a politician with political aspirations, which really scares me. Everyone is different, and everyone is a change. Everyone though Truman was “the same” with FDR, and Truman desegregated the military. Nobody is ever the same as their predecessor. The democrat claim that Mccain is the same as Bush is bunk, and the claim the mccain and Palin are outside of DC is also bunk.

  182. September 17, 2008 at 03:30


    I worked in NM all summer at Philmont Scout Ranch in Cimarron, NM. Although I didn’t have many opportunities to drive long distances, nor did I have a car, I did carpool to and fro my home in Oklahoma at the beginning and end of the summer. I don’t think most people regularly drive from Taos in the NE corner to Albuquerque three hours south. If anything, people are traveling less. Wal-Mart probably has lost the business of distant small towns, as small towns have lost the business of tourists/vacationers who are staying closer to home. I stopped at a small-town gas station in near the NM/Okla. boarder on the way back home that had temporarily closed because it could not keep up with the more stable corporate-owned gas station down the street that could afford to buy truckloads of gas and thus compete for gas sales. One girl, who had worked there for many years and knew all the regular customers, was laid-off.

    -Pap 🙂

  183. 185 pat
    September 17, 2008 at 09:11

    I generally tune in to the BBC rather than any US media outlets because I think your coverage of actual issues is quite good. The World, The Environment, The Economy, Technology, and now Truth or Consequences? Are you going to do a regular America Bashing segment? You know, roll into some small town and get all chummy with the locals and then sandbag them with some shite about well maybe you deserve a financial setback or two because we think you have been living better than us? And of course the good people of the Village, who have retired after a life of playing by the rules, a life of believing in the system are all a little flabergasted and taken aback by what was basicly another cheap shot taken by someone else they had put their faith in and welcomed to their community.
    Real hard driving journalism there. Do you think the victims of 9-11 deserved what they got on account of America’s Mideast bumblings?
    I think you’ll find that America has all the same problems you will find at home. There is a different scale here, to be sure, but luckily that extends to opportunity as well. From the look of your correspondent’s fancy bus it seems that he has figured that out….

  184. 186 Jennifer
    September 17, 2008 at 14:22


    I agree about politicians having their own motives. In my opinion, McCain/Palin are the lesser of the two evils. They scare me much less than Obama/Biden, well, Obama really….Biden doesn’t count. 🙂

  185. 187 Albert Beach
    September 17, 2008 at 15:58

    Dear B B C News
    This morning I heard the last portion of a short wave broadcast having to do with the crisis on Wall Street in America. Your choice spokesman, the mayor of Truth or Consequences, New Mexico, seemed to me to highlight American stupidity. Surely you could have found a more intelligent representative of small town America than a conservative ideologue whose proposed solution to the current crashes was less government interference — perhaps one who could form logical sentences! Maybe you were “tipping your hand” of anti-Americanism with your choice; clearly it was a lack of government oversight of investment banks and brokerages that caused many of the problems.
    Albert Beach
    Los Angeles, California

  186. September 17, 2008 at 16:52

    To Jennifer and others,

    You really need to wake and smell the coffee in America!

    So many people outside your country’s hallowed borders live in the real world.

    Your man Bush and the Dark Lord Cheney are people the rest of the world have been living in fear of for the past 8 years, and suffering terribly as a consequence.

    Talk about the lesser of two evils, in relation to McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden. You have got to be joking! Bush lied and lied and then lied again in order to prosecute his dad’s unfinished business in Iraq. Iraq was not responsible for 9/11. Anybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that. The US government created terrorism where before there was none whatsoever. By the way one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.
    “Weapons of Mass Destruction” did not exist, and the US and the UK collaborated in the lie so as to invade Iraq.
    To date it is estimated that anything from 600,000 to 1.5 million Iraqi civilians have died between 2003-2008. From 2003-2006 of 655,000 civilian deaths, 601,027 died as a consequence of violence as opposed to natural causes. This equates to 2.5% of the Iraqi population or 500 plus civilian deaths a week since the invasion and occupation of Iraq. This survey information was instantly dismissed by Bush and Blair as being wholly innacurate. A Chief Scientific Adviser to the Ministry of Defence in the UK said the survey was “as close to best practice” and in addition said “the study design is robust.” The British government was warned to be “cautious” about criticising the survey findings. So it is quite realistic to say that the figure of Iraqi civilian deaths could easily be approaching a million or more dead to date, being directly related to the invasion.

    Terrible though it was the 2,700 who died in the Twin Towers pales into insignificance.

    If I were you I’d be very afraid of the aforementioned facts. Even if half the number or less died because of American and Coalition military action, that is truly abhorrent, and completely unacceptable in todays world. The US lost more than 55,000 soldiers in Vietnam. Even that doesn’t come anywhere near the daily suffering the Iraqi people are going through because of Bush and Blair. Liberating the Iraqi people? I suggest you ask them directly if it feels like a liberation or an abomination, of how callous and evil your dear president is. And you think McCain/Palin would be any different? Palin is already on record as saying that “Iraq is part of God’s plan.” That truly scares me as does Rumsfeld’s comments that “it is not our fault that God chose to put our oil underneath other people’s countries.” Get real will you!

    And please don’t kid yourself that the USA is at war.
    You’ve been attacked by terrorists so called, as has the UK by the IRA for many years. Not once did we use the emotive term and phrase “a nation at war.”
    You’ve upset sectors and people of the world for far too long now, and it was payback time. And I get no satisfaction from saying this at all. Sometimes you just have to accept the harsh truth and stop blindly allowing yourselves to be led towards and I hate to say it a potential Armageddon, unless you rein in your ways, that is the way it is heading. Surely nobody wants that.

    America has done untold harm to countries and people round the world for decades now. No wonder so many people hate you and have no respect for you. What else can they think.
    At the very least Obama says he will meet, sit down and discuss with the so called “Axis of Evil” countries and their leaders on an equal footing, with no preconditions. That is a step forward of some kind.

    I know America is going through a torrid time domestically and things need to be fixed. If you don’t fix things on the outside as well as the inside then America will become more and more isolated and reviled around the world. If you truly desire this and want to live with complacency and your shallow insularity, then carry on, go straight ahead with McCain/Palin and see where you end up. Don’t blame anybody but yourselves if America reaps the whirlwind of the worlds further discontent, and another terrible event visits your shores once again, more horrendous and far reaching than the last. Step back America!

  187. 189 Roberto
    September 18, 2008 at 04:21

    RE “”To date it is estimated that anything from 600,000 to 1.5 million Iraqi civilians have died between 2003-2008. From 2003-2006 of 655,000 civilian deaths, 601,027 died as a consequence of violence as opposed to natural causes.””

    ——— Far be it for me to get caught up in any sniping between reps and dems, heh, heh, heh, but…….

    From the start of post Gulf War sanctions to 2003, the usual dreary suspects were blaming the US for enforcing UN sanctions that they reckoned killed 500,000 to 1 mil Iraqis, mostly children.

    Yes, I know reps and dems like to eat their cake and have it too, but sure sounds like a wash to me.

    From my point of view, it would greatly help the world and this country if reps and dems could do more than think on one side of their noggins, but such are their limitations.

  188. September 18, 2008 at 10:26

    Say Matthew….Get thee to Truth or Consequences, New Mexico. The people in that segment might help you with your America phobia. They seemed nice enough despite the cheap shots from your BBC correspondent. Many of the people there who welcomed him to their town probably didn’t understand why he was badgering them the way he did. Your post is instructive in that it shows the kind of person he was catering to.

    Bush Inc. was chosen by 51 percent of the voters in both elections because they wanted someone to step up, not back. The other 49 percent of the voters have their own whirlwind of discontent to deal with.

    It must be nice to deal with absolutes and so many cool adjectives. Flogging the US with them is like attacking a blue whale with a Q-tip. Todays financial difficulties crossing the Atlantic only serve to illustrate that how the US fares, so fares the world. That might be hard to swallow but keep in mind that when Rome imploded they called the next 500 years, The Dark Ages. Unless you are really good at growing wheat you might want to cut the people who have been living and working and getting along despite their differences, despite the inefficiencies, the injustices, and all the things that get towed along in the wake of a big whale…Well you might want to look at them like human beings, neighbors even. That might go over better than dire predictions and peckerwood rants. Scapegoating isn’t going to go away, but you might want to deal with the fact that the US is very Real and they can smell coffee just fine. Eventually the wheels will turn and the troops will come home, energy choices will be made, politicians will be chosen, and the whale will lumber past. Now wave your Q-tip as we go by…

  189. 191 Jennifer
    September 18, 2008 at 15:07

    @ Matthew

    As far as I am concerned McCain and Palin are the lesser of the two evils. Do you really think that either set is going to fix all of our problems overnight? We have WAY too many for that to ever happen! Obama is so very good at many all of these grand promises which he will have NO WAY of keeping. Where will the money for all of his tax breaks come from? Why didn’t he choose Hillary as his running mate? Because she was 1. a woman and would have stolen his thunder 2. had more experience than he did along with strings. He would have been overshadowed and how dare that happen! Has Obama ever worked across party lines for the betterment of ALL people instead of just democrats? No. I don’t like his arrogance and I don’t like his inability to answer a question directly. I feel like he has alot to hide and does a pretty good job hiding it with people who are so enthralled by our for black presidential candidate to look at the issues.

    Many people want to blame Bush for everything. He was elected twice. It’s important to remember that he was not the only one in control of what happened. After the 9/11 attacks there was pressure from everyone to act and collectively, we did. I am happy for that. I don’t want to live in a world where people use their religion as validation for killing innocent people.

    As for our economy, it is bad. However, I wouldn’t be so quick to be happy about that if I were you. The fact of the matter is that when the U.S. hurts other countries do too. It’s interesting to hear all of the negative things you say about the U.S. but when most countries have a problem…they expect the good old USA to come along and help. Maybe we shouldn’t do that anymore. Maybe we should just work on “reining in our ways”. But then again, that would make us all the more horrible wouldn’t it? Either way the USA could never please everyone!

    I have to say I agree with Pat about the phobia thing……please don’t stand too close to an American-we don’t know if American cooties are contagious yet!

  190. 192 Essexgirl
    September 18, 2008 at 21:25

    Personally I feel the current melt down in the financial markets has left all the candidates looking less than glorious. They all seem totally wrong footed by the severity of the situation

    McCain seems to dither from day to day (the fundamentals are strong, the fundamentals are in trouble….). No one doubts the man’s bravery or patriotism, but he is totally out of his depth on the economy, he’s floundering and personally, I think he’s just too old. Sorry. Obama has been too vague and lacking dynamism, and didn’t make himself look too good by turning up at a Hollywood fundraiser – we all know that both sides get their money from rich backers , and the Democrats’ backers are just more easily recognisable than the GOP’s, but this election is all about appearances unfortunately, and dining with the stars while Wall Street crumbles just looks silly and trivial. Biden ….Biden?? He probably has more actual experience than the others, but I’m not sure what he thinks. And Palin? I guess she understands high finance because she can see the bank building from where she lives, right??

    I am so disillusioned that these 4 are all this country can produce to fill a leadership role that, like it or not, affects every living person on this earth. I’m not an American (permanent resident) but I’ve lived here over a decade and I pay just as much tax as a citizen (who can vote of course…) so I’ve got just as much interest in the outcome as anyone. I’ve made my life here, for better or worse. And I see a slide towards mediocrity in many aspects of life which is worrying -, including in the leadership.

    When Bush announced this morning that he had canceled travel plans to stay in DC and oversee the turmoil, my husband and I just turned to each other and said “Are we really supposed to find that comforting?” The current leader looks like a child who has lost his security blanket. “Where did all my friends take all the money…?” There’s a certain irony that some of your financial institutions appear about to be taken over by British banks (Barclays, HSBC). Revenge for the Revolution perhaps?

    Does it really not worry Americans how they are percieved in the world? If the USA was doing brilliantly, (industry thriving, great balance of payments, dynamic economy, full employment etc.), then there would be some justification in sticking 2 fingers up to the rest of the world. But the country is up to its eyes in debt, the government is in debt to China to the tune of quadrillions, you’re embroiled in 2 nasty wars, fore-closures are rampant, unemployment is worsening and half the south has just been laid waste by a hurricane which will have knock on effects in the insurance industry for years to come.

    Wake up guys! It might be a really good idea to elect someone the rest of the world actually likes, if only so you can get some co-operation to get back on track. Please please don’t elect yet another person that the rest of the world thinks is a joke.

    (I never thought I’d hear myself say this, but I miss Margaret Thatcher. She couldn’t field dress a moose, but she understood economics, science, technology and engineering. Like any world leader should.)

  191. September 19, 2008 at 02:27

    I doubt Saddam and the troops who stood with him think Bush is a joke. How long have you been here? Your litany of things wrong with the US only underscores how brilliantly the majority of America is doing despite all that. When you turned to your husband how much of that did you see? How much of it was relevant to your daily life? Did the people who dream of coming here like yourself even consider one of those unbrilliant things? No, but some of them are risking there lives to get here all the same.
    There are some very shrewd people making crazy amounts of money off all of those things you list and the average American is willing to pay not to have to deal with it. Maybe you should have read the fine print? The part about the unalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness? The majority of people in this country aren’t even registered to vote. Less than half the people who are, are likely to. Wake up? Step back? Why doesn’t America just hand it all over? Believe me some things are better off left sleeping. The United States is a superpower without even trying. What do you think, that anybody here planned it or even wants it? What makes America great is the majority of the people in the world who look up to it, who thrill to the idea of freedom, who thrill to the idea of a 40 hour work week and a 55 inch gut and a 56 inch HDTV and a SUV.
    This is a big country of a lot of people and all the problems you wail about are signs of change. Hundreds of millions of people are all beginning to think about all getting together and moving in a different direction. In all likelihood they will take the rest of the world along with them. I believe that everything the Federal Government touches turns to shit and that any change will happen despite whoever is at the podium waving his arms. And I’m willing to take that over just about anywhere else in the world.
    And now I leave Truth or Consequences to it’s fate and ride off to spend ten days in the redwoods of northern California. I hope the world can get along without me.

  192. September 19, 2008 at 18:50

    Hi Pat, Jennifer, Roberto and all the never say die, defend America at all costs and all levels brigade,

    At what human cost to innocent Iraqis! When the soldiers go home and the politicians all but disappear, apart from the puppets installed by Bush et al, and the news networks no longer find any interest in the day to day business of Iraq, who’s going to pick up the pieces and help the country establish itself once more? Who? The oil companies, engineering, security companies, business and property development companies, the caring and sharing Republicans, the Pentagon etc, etc? If you guys can’t even fix the electric over there, arrange daily running water, decent human sanitation and give the average Iraqi a sense of identity, well being and without having to live in daily fear throughout the length and breadth of Iraq, then what the hell have you achieved, apart from a living hell itself, and once again ignited Sunni against Shia Muslims in your own self-interests.

    They love you and feel liberated by you – but still attack American soldiers and bases where possible. They are under occupation and don’t take too kindly to it. Would you? In Afghanistan the Taliban are winning while all the time killing young American and British men with no knowledge of the real world. For every Taliban killed hundreds and thousands more join the cause. You can’t win against that mentality of those willing to sacrifice their lives, no matter what! The British Empire, the Soviet Union, nobody can win in Afghanistan, so what makes you think the USA can win there? What feeling of good will towards Americans and legacy will you leave behind, now and for future generations in both countries and in the region as a whole?

    Now, if you can’t stomach any more bleeding heart liberal diatribe, then try this on for size, a situation that I have direct personal experience of. Before the invasion UNICEF asked permission to go in and immunise as many Iraqi babies and children (process known as Days of Tranquility – when all parties to conflict cease hostilities so as to allow babies and children access to immunization, in this case prior to actual conflict) possible for tuberculosis, polio, tetanus, pertussis, diphtheria and measles, before the attack deadline. You and I all received this as a matter of course when children. But the first people to suffer in any conflict are the very young because their immune system can’t cope with the inevitable consequences of when the infrastructure of communities and a country fall down so fast and so dramatically. Without it or not having immediate access to vaccination and necessary medicines, then they will surely die or become so ill, that the likelihood is that they will die sooner or later in their multitudes. Malnutrition and rampant disease are the inevitable results. So 14,000 volunteers and doctors over 2 weeks managed to inoculate 4.2 million babies and children. Now that size and type of operation had never been undertaken or carried out before, and hopefully never will again. Was it publicised by western media, did it reach any newspaper in the US or UK. The answer is an emphatic no! Why though would such a good news story not be of interest to news media in general? What a fantastic achievement! What a sense of good will by the West to an Arab nation. Yes, but could Bush and Blair afford for this information to come into the public arena at all. I think the average American or Brit who had that information may begin to ask other questions as to why so many innocents were potentially in the line of fire and would inevitably suffer, come the invasion. I was directly involved in promoting the campaign at UNICEF head office’s in London, at the time. Now the press department made efforts to release this to the media, but nobody was taking up the story, again why? Could it be that certain pressure was applied by certain individuals as to counter any adverse media interest that might upset the plans for invasion? Coalition troops on the ground and in preparation for weeks and months before, with military hardware primed and enormous firepower all at the ready. Is it just possible that it was in certain people’s interests for this information never to materialise, for their ulterior motives? Call me a cynic if you like, but can you give me a reasonable answer otherwise as to what may be the reason for something as historic and such momentous good news is not made available for public consumption? This is not hearsay, I was there, and I don’t understand it to this day. All other positive news stories about UNICEF have reached certain correspondents over the years. Why not this particular one, Pat? I don’t say for one moment that your country can’t do some good in the world. But in recent decades it has patently failed to do so, and is responsible much misery and suffering past and present unbeknown to most Americans, who live in “Ivory Towers.” Please contend if you think you can. More disturbing FACTS to follow this post. So watch this space.

  193. 195 Jennifer
    September 19, 2008 at 21:45

    Dear Matthew,

    I completely understand where you are coming from regarding loss of life. All human life is valuable. However, I would NEVER expect a soldier to put himself or the rest of his team at risk. If you want to discuss the taking of innocent lives, please talk to those who choose to hide among women and children. As far as I am concerned; they are to blame.

    Regarding vaccinations for Iraqi babies and children-I would be very interested in learning more about this. In the Native American culture, it is very common for children (and adults) to not receive vaccinations for spiritual reasons. Is it recommended, no but it is a choice. I know adults personally who have never had a vaccination in their lives. FYI, there are children here in the U.S. who have not received all of their vaccinations. The reason for that is because parents do not know that they need them and some do not have access to a doctor’s care. Maybe there was a “conspiracy” to keep quiet about the vaccinations. I don’t know, but what I do know is that I am sure if it were talked about today people would find something “wrong” with it. Maybe it’s coming out now to imply as much.

    I am not an uncaring person, but I do not want to live in a world where people use their religion as a way to validate killing other innocent people. I don’t care what religion it is, what dippy promises are made, or anything else. For me, the scariest thing is thinking that one day, we will see firsthand the way our lives can change-for the worse. As it is, women have fought very hard for rights equal to those of men but women are still susceptible to horrible things like abuse.

  194. 196 Shakhoor Rehman
    September 20, 2008 at 12:20

    I think the search for truth and its consequences is akin to the proverbial oasis in the desert with many mirages on the journey.

  195. September 22, 2008 at 17:33

    Dear Jennifer,

    All those people mentioned with regards to vaccination, if you don’t mind me saying so, is utterly irrelevant. They are not subject to endless conflict, subjugation and at the same time under military occupation in America are they? They haven’t had their cities, towns, citizens and babies and children endlessly killed, bombed and bombarded, with their daily existence hanging by a thread for the last 5 years. You can’t begin to equate the two wholly different situations. By the way with reference to the Insurgency reported as doing all the killing and damage in Iraq, the ratio of Coalition fire casualties to that of Insurgent ones on average is 4 to 1 as inspected and supplied by respected independent surveys and information, but instantly refuted by Bush and Blair. Funny that. I wonder why they may not be very happy with the real estimate of casualties in Iraq, due to military action there. Do you know why? I believe I do.

    What you have to seriously understand though is that the powers that be that lie behind Bush and Blair’s complicity in such a manner as to convince the American people that someone must be held accountable no matter who, for whether it be 9/11, “Weapons of Mass Destruction”, so on and so forth must not be allowed to continue in hoodwinking your nation in such a presumptive way. Yours and my governments are being disingenuous upon each occasion. It simply isn’t good enough to use spurious evidence time and time again in order to prosecute illegal wars, whereby the innocent suffer horrendously and repeatedly on such an incalculable scale. For a start the supposed identity of the perpetrators of 9/11 was Saudi Arabian, not one Iraqi amongst them. Saddam Hussein not a very nice man, but unless someone and rather late in the day, can prove that the Iraqis had anything to do with that event, then what does that say about the ease in which a government can mislead its people into believing the unbelievable. The government carry along and instigate the so called wishes for revenge of the people on a huge wave of anger, that leads to a fog of information deliberately being thrust at them via the media, whereby an anywhere nearby honest investigation as to what truly happened on September 12th, 2001 is forever lost and the mindset of a people is quite literally and deliberately obfuscated from the real truths. You have to entertain the idea that you and the whole nation are possibly being duped into believing something you really shouldn’t by the powers that be. I can cite you evidence where this has endlessly been carried out on a lesser scale. But in these instances your administrations didn’t hold favour with DEMOCRATICALLY elected governments. The Sandinistas in Nicaragua for example, they were labelled as Socialist/Communist outposts that threatened the welfare and backyard of the Christian and conservative USA. So the CIA funded Contras hit back on behalf of the “Land of the Free.” Independent observers reported that Nicaragua had one of the best healthcare systems in the world at the time. But Reagan and his accomplices didn’t care for that too much, so they became embroiled in the whole Iran/Contra scandal, instigated by Colonel Oliver North and his posse of ragged recruits, supported, funded and equipped by the US government. Reagan got off, and came up smelling of roses as they normally always do.

    You should read the Bright Shining Lie, by Neil Sheehan, about Vietnam. On that basis, your intervention was wholly ill conceived and the US was never going to win there, not in a million years, such was the pound them into the ground carpet bombing mentality and attitude by the military. And by the time it was deemed appropriate to deploy another tactic, it was far too late to do so. Despite the fact that the US shouldn’t have been there in the first place, anyway. The US entered these conflicts to stem the communist tide and stop the western nations becoming enveloped in its so called political web. It was said at the time for America to have lost Vietnam, those who had their own agenda yet again, would prove catastrophic and would change the whole political map and further enhance the communist threat upon the USA. None of this materialized, yet another example where your government has been less than honest with the American people, and to the families of soldiers who lost thousands of loved ones, a terrible legacy to live with, to this very day. Watch this space.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: