Today is one of those days in history. Many people can remember exactly what they were doing as the two planes struck the twin towers of the World Trade Centre seven years ago. Memorial services are being held across the world to mark the anniversary. But since 2001, what has changed for you?
The death of almost 3 thousand people when four planes were hijacked and flown into New York’s World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania at the very least changed America’s foreign policy, other people say it changed the world forever.
The attacks of 9/11 by 19 suspected al-Qaeda members launched President Bush’s War on Terror. Just six weeks later the US launched attacks on Afghanistan, from where Osama Bin Laden had been operating under the protection of the ruling Taleban. After the war, hundreds of suspected al-Qaeda fighters were sent to the US military base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where many are still detained.
London and Madrid are just two cities that have also been targeted by groups linked to or inspired by al-Qaeda. On the 7th July 2005 52 died and 700 were injured after suicide attacks on three tube trains and a bus in central London.
On the 11th March 2004 ten bombs exploded on four packed early-morning commuter trains in Madrid, killing 191 people and leaving at least 1800 injured.
That’s the history, but how has your life changed? Do you feel the terror threat is less now because of the war on terror, or do you feel in greater danger? On a day to day level is security tighter – is it more hassle to get on a plane? Do you look at who sits next to you on a train? If you are a Muslim, are you treated differently by your peers? Or has this event actually meant people have learnt more about your religion? Or has your world remained untouched by terrorism?
Can Al-Qaeda ever be combated? Or is this organisation a symbol of inspiration, that’s cast it’s net too wide?
RSS feed
BBC World Have Your Say 
130 DAYS 14 Hrs 38 Min 00.9 Sec – Then it will be a safer place.
One thing that really angers me, is that the government says there have been no terrorist attacks in the US since 9/11, when there have been. There was the LAX attack on the El Al counter. A driver came in and started shooting passengers until a security officer killed him.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/04/12/airport.shooting/
There was an attack on a Jewish center in Seattle, where the gunman targetted women and killed a pregnant woman.
There was also an attack on a Jewish Center I believe in LA as well.
@ Brett
I wouldn’t be so sure, it all depends…
hello everyone,
hahaha nice topic!!!
you mean Earth is safer???it actually vice-verca.
i havent read what you have written above but the initial thought in my mind is no-NEVER.
Today i fell more dangered by my surroundings.
Right now as I am writing this i might just be blasted,you never know!
Therefore i would really not think that my world is safe.
thankyou
Abhinav
Are we safer? I will speak as an American, that is, are Americans safer. No! How could we be. We have taken down two governments, still waging two wars in Afganistan and Iraq, have threatened Iran and North Korea, we periodically rattle sabers and words with Russia, Venezuela, and China, we have not changed our foreign policy of interventionism at all… Again, are Americans safer? No! Our own actions have made it worse.
@ Katharina:
I mean, even if Ebenezer and Barbie scheme their way into office at least more thought may go into international screwups… Less thought into national ones, maybe.
The only thing that changed on 9/11/01 was the perception of vulnerability of people living in the continental USA. They were neither more nor less secure than they had been before, simply more aware of the type of danger that, sadly, people all over the world face on a daily basis. Many were shocked; I was ashamed that we could be so naive. Many people around the world revere the ideal of the USA – and many revile it. Too many Americans live in a bubble, and unfortunately, THAT hasn’t changed in 7 years either.
Hey (the other) Chloe! I met your namesake Tuesday night and yesterday during the shows. She’s a sweetie. 🙂
There’s no question our lives in the U.S. have been irrevocably changed in a number of ways. But the most frightening thing for me remains that my countrymen our so filled with fear that they elected Bush twice in a row, believing that a Democratic president wouldn’t keep them safe. Look what a shambles the country is in today! And we could very well do it again this November — again in the name of “safety.” At the RNC, they took the frightful images of this day of tragedy, and used them to whip up the members into a nationalistic frenzy. (Watch carefully what they do today. They’ll surely use it for campaigning purposes.) The government continues to instill fear in us rather than assuring us. I’m now just as afraid of what my countrymen are doing in the name of 9/11 as I am what could still potentially come.
And on my world being a safer place:
No, I don’t believe it is.
I think that since less emphasis is being placed on the fear and control index (Threat Color coding), the American public has calmed down and feels a bit safer. We seem to be upsetting more and more people every day with our actions. The current bear we are poking sticks at and tossing rocks towards is Russia. I wonder who it will be tomorrow.
No, I don’t feel safer at all.
@ Brett
Can you think of names that I could call Obama and Biden like you have for Mccain and Palin?
I can’t think of one for Obama, but how about Pluggy for biden?
@ Brett
Um, russia is attacking foreign countries, is having strategic bomber flights over europe again (think of all the greenhouse gasses the TU-95 releases? It has 4 15,000 hp turboprops) and engaging in naval exercises in S. America and threatens countries like Poland and the Ukraine, yet you blame the US?? Care to explain why?
@ Steve:
I dunno, we need to come up with some though to even out the lefty vs righty battle for Mordor. What could be a nickname for a youngster since he’s so young? Whippersnapper perhaps? lol
seven years on, I face more real risk from my own government than any random risk from someone in a cave in Afghanistan.
I risk my phone being tapped. I risk my house being searched without a warrant because someone saw me buy fertilizer for my lawn. I risk my emails being read. I risk my laptop being siezed and its contents copied for scrutiny at any airport. I risk humiliation going through airport security. I risk arrest if I choose to protest a political function. I risk being teargassed for political speech and free assembly. I risk being randomly tossed into prison on a whim or whisked off to Egypt to be tortured to death if my name gets on some list by accident. I and any descendants I produce are at risk of facing huge debt for wars of choice for oil and regime change, while terrorists remain unmolested. I risk my descendants suffering worldwide crises because of this administration’s biblical dislike for real science and luddite resistance to new ideas. We are all at risk of Bush turning Blackwater loose on this country’s own citizens, of Halliburton becoming the dominant force in defense, and of the secret service outshining the gestapo in terms of random arrests and questionable use of power. Who do local officials point to when questioned about some breach of civil liberties around the current election cycle? Homeland Security and the secret service.
I wish I was speaking about China or North Korea. Unfortunately, I’m not.
Welcome to USA 2008.
I was 16 in 2001; that seems like a long time ago. I don’t think I realized the huge impact that the attacks had here. I watched the news and saw clips but wasn’t there.
I feel that the threat for terror still exists and it is greater; especially bioterrorism. I am guilty of looking at who sits next to me and wondering about them.
We can thank God for President George W. Bush, it is because of thim that we are safer today. It is because of his policies and his very successful war on terror that we have not had an attack in the US since 9-11-01. In spite of you Brett, George W. Bush is a great President, people will be asking for someone like him like they are asking for Regan. History will be kind to him. Thanks God for President Bush, he will be missed dearly.
@ Steve:
and threatens countries like Poland
Funny you mention that… Would the US threaten Mexico if a foreign nation wanted to put missile ‘defense’ systems in their country…. Cuba perhaps? Oh, wonder what that answer would be 😉
and engaging in naval exercises in S. America
Kind of like the Warship being sent to Georgia for aid? Oh, except a little further away, right?
russia is attacking foreign countries
Oh goodness… This argument is a lose-lose one with a downward spiral similar to Israel / Palestine. Neither side is going to agree, we’ve demonstrated that time and time again for weeks.
7 years ago today, @ 9AM, I was taking a mid class break from my wills trusts and estates course, which was 20 miles from manhattan. Went into the hallway where there were TVs on, it showed one of the WTC on fire. Then either the second plane hit, or they showed footage of the second plane hitting, and people at first thought itw as some kind of accident, then when we saw the second plane hit (didn’t know the cause of the fire in the 1st building at the time) we all knew it was terrorism. One of my classmates starting crying hysterically because her boyfriend worked in the WTC (he survived). We went back to class, I told the professor what had happened, but he continued class for a few minutes, then realized he should cancel it. Classes for the rest of the day were cancelled, there were rumors of terrorist attacks all across the country, and a rumor of a car bombing at the State Department, where my father worked at the time. The phone lines were all jammed, so I couldn’t contact my parents to see if they were fine. Really bad day. We could see the smoke from school on higher floors in some buildings.
The world becomes more dangerous every day. We simply do not seem to learn. Here in the states we choose leaders in a whimsical way. We care about silly things or grand wispy things like global warming. Passionate about global warming? Want to go up in space? But what about the other half of the world living in misery?
We fight a war on terror but use ‘shock and awe’ in battle as we kill civilians by the thousands in the process.
We will be at greater and greater risk unless and until we start to learn from our world and our mistakes.
If interested please see my blog entry today on the same subject:
http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/
@ Hiam
We have had terrorism since 9/11. Please see my link from CNN.
@ Brett
Would we threaten Mexico with a nuclear attack?
Also, you know as well as I do that these is an anti ballistic missile system. It’s used to destroy missiles.
Russia doesn’t have the technology, so they are really pissed off now, and are making threats to get their way.
@ Brett and Steve
I get the feeling that even if Mr. Obama gets elected, in the eyes of the media he will do no right (or whatever the opposite of “he can do no wrong” happens to be). So how ’bout Rudy? Or Newblood? Or Cheshire Cat? (cuz of the grin)
@ WHYS
World a safer place? Nope. Is it more confusing and arbitrary? You betcha.
It seems like ‘security’ has been focused on superficial, knee-jerk measures to passify the masses instead of actually doing things. Case in point: airport security and customs. How come some guy with a double-digit IQ and a triple-digit income has to go rooting around through my stuff? The last time I flew (early August) they took away my bic razor and travel bottle of shampoo… but let me carry a full set of guitar strings (steel!) in my carry-on.
Cuz, y’know, I can’t think of any way I can possibly harm someone with six steel wires.
And customs: travellers beware! If you have an mp3 that *gasp* you downloaded illegaly, you WILL have your ipod/laptop confiscated at customs. Because I remember the last time the CIA tracked down a potential terrorist by hearing the secret messages in his ‘slow jamz for bedtime’ playlist. Maybe they should be searching through the emails, or doing a hard drive search for “blueprints” instead. If you want to find fire, follow the smoke. Not the river.
The CIA has been on a pretty tight leash since the end of the Cold War. Maybe it’s time the gov’t let them do their job – which happens to be intelligence gathering.
I neither feel safe nor unsafe. It is as it is!
However, I will say that George Bush has done everything in his power to terrify people globally.
I don’t see that changing any time soon.
Also, you know as well as I do that these is an anti ballistic missile system. It’s used to destroy missiles.
Rendering Russias offensive missiles and/or defensive missiles useless should anyone operating said missile defense stations chose to target Russia. They have every right to be upset. We would be too. No one can deny that.
Oh and if you think these missile defense systems will be strictly ‘defensive’ stations, you are poorly mistaken. They will be heavily defended with offensive as well as defensive equipment and personel. Especially with the dirt this is all kicking up.
Would we threaten Mexico with a nuclear attack?
Nope, we don’t need to. We would simply push our way into the country, or bomb them until they submitted…. Either way its wrong, nuclear or not.
And @ Shaun:
I rather like Cheshire or Youngblood lol
@ Gretchen
Have any of those things happened to you?
If not, why are you so much more worried about those things than people willing to kill you over their fictional God?
You should be more afraid of getting hit by a car than either of your fears or terrorism. I’ve been hit by a car twice in the past year. Only one of the people even stopped to see if I was okay.
@ Brett
I think you’re confusing the US with Russia. That’s what russia just did.
the only change is that we are now more afraid of arabs than before 9/11.
@ Steve Re: Ballistic Missile Shield
If I remember correctly, in Iraq: Part 2, the Army made use of the Patriot missile-defense system. And it only had like an ~80% success rate (and that may be generous). If you’re talking full-scale, multiple warhead, multiple-missile attack, I don’t think ~80% cuts it. Methinks 20 warheads out of 100 can still do a lot of harm. I could be wrong though. My information is coming from a book called “The War Against Truth” by Paul William Roberts so I may be misquoting.
Sadly, the USA has managed to squander much of the global good will it received after the 9/11 attacks. We have taken an overly aggressive stance towards foreign policy, and I fear this has done far more harm than good.
As for whether or not we are safer within our own borders, I wouldn’t say that has changed much. We have a plethora of extra security measures, but in the end, none of them really make a difference. A perfect example of this is the Transportation Security Administration; you can’t possibly convince me that all of their inane rules (such as banning liquids) improve safety. They’re a feel-good measure, nothing more.
What it comes down to is that we have gotten paranoid, and rather than take measures that actually improve safety, we’re responding to whatever happens with a series of knee-jerk reactions.
@ Steve:
I think you’re confusing the US with Russia. That’s what russia just did.
No sir, no confusion. I was responding to the italicized quote from you regarding what the US would do if Mexico put in a missile ‘defense’ system on behalf of another country.
When did Russia respond this way to Mexico, let alone bomb them into submission?
@ Shaun
These aren’t patriot missiles they are deploying.
These aren’t patriot missiles they are deploying.
We should call them “Freedom Missiles”
[/sarcasm]
@ Brett
That doesn’t really help the discussion much. My point was that Patriot Missiles are a missiles system developed in the 1980s. The new missile system is brand new. remember the gulf war was in 1991. 17 years ago. technology has improved.
Was your computer 17 years ago as powerful as it is today? Don’t think so.
Yes, they can be combated and weakened, but, No,they can never be defeated.Let’s remember that these people are driven by what they believe and so don’t “fear” anything in their quest to harm their perceived enemy.
Not even death scares them.
Bush just don’t get it.This is not all about using force but trying to explore the diplomatic option(s) that will bring all the actors to the table so that their grieviances can be addressed.
This is going to require a whole lot of patience.The unconventional nature of this fight makes it unique and thus require patience and tact.
@ Joy
I don’t care about their grievances or what they want. They are insane, absolutely INSANE religious fanatics. You cannot reason with the unreasonable. You kill them. No talking is going to get anything accomplished. Like you couldn’t talk with Hitler, you cannot talk with insane religious fanatics and tihnk you can get the result you want.
@ Steve:
I’m sorry you feel that way.
Your points are well received about the improvements in technology. However, how does running around and flaunting such technology in the face of a country which already (and rightfully so) distrusts us, then making plans to install it in their backyard, make the world a safer place?
As if missiles are the only means to deliver bombs, explosives, and other tools of death.
Terrorism was never a real threat. Sure, terrorists have killed may people, but the probability of a person dying as a result of terrorism was always negligible. You can compare that with e.g. dying as a result of a plane crash.
When a plane crash happens we investigate and take reasonable measures. But the only way to erradicate it, is to stop operating planes. In case of terrorism, it seems that we have taken such a ridiculously radical measure by invading Iraq merely because we couldn’t rule out the theoretical possiblity that Saddam would make WMD and give them to terrorists.
Fighting terrorism this way at a cost of $0.3 billion per day comes at the expense of many things that could have benefited all of us such as new treatments for cancer and heart diseases.
The world is not a safer place. It is a more aware world. Who knew before 9/11 anyone could hate so much?
Canada
@ Brett
Russia is the one making the argument that the system is aimed at them, when it’s aimed at preventing attacks from Iran and NK.
Look what NK is doing as we speak:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7609718.stm
Russia just doesn’t want the US having technology Russia cannot produce itself, so they are going into making threat mode like the thug nation russia is.
Russia is the one making the argument that the system is aimed at them, when it’s aimed at preventing attacks from Iran and NK.
Because the missiles can’t be redirected with a few keystrokes?
Please confirm.
@ Viola
The WTC was also attacked in 1993. People hated that much back then as well.
Our world is not a safer place since First and Second World War to our today’s time, and it is going to the worst from: western polices to words weaker Countries, terrorist attacks, and from natural crises. This world will never experience peace till Judgment day
I have to admit, I do feel safer. I won’t say totally safe, but safer. Now ask me in a few months after the elections my story may change.
@ Joy
I concur. People seem to equate a “terrorist” with “someone who wants to kill me no matter what”. While this may be true in many cases, we have lost sight of the fact that there are policies of ours (such as our unconditional, unwavering support of Israel) that they find rather aggravating. This of course does not excuse their use of violence, but we should at least take a look at why they are angry with us.
When all the evidence points to a set up job by the USA administration, that is Bush and his cronies, I cannot believe we are talking about this.
The planes did not bring down the Trade Towers.
The USA administration brought down the towers.
The world has been turned into a quivering frightened mess because of the greed of a few individuals.
The world will be a safer place when these maniacs, these evil and ugly people, are in prison or dead.
It really is about time people start looking at the truth instead of the propaganda.
Malc
@ Amy:
Maybe Steve’s right. We just overthrow (or at least try to or assist in overthrowing) those leaders and governments which we don’t like. Swaying voters takes too long.
@ Malc Dow
Thanks for the laugh. I suppose all the Jews called in sick on 9/11?
Steve, the US doesn’t want Syria and Iran to get modern Russian air defense either.
Steve, yes, a lot of them did.
And Brett, they weren’t even voted in anyway.
Malc.
@ Malc Dow
How many jews called in sick on 9/11 vs other religions? Did only jews call in sick?
And Brett, they weren’t even voted in anyway.
Guess that makes it ok since the US is the world authority, right?
Immediately following the 9/11 attack the world appeared to finally be pulling together against a common enemy. Alas, the so-called “war against terrorism” was so badly handled that the world today is far more divided and far more dangerous than ever.
To the American who say they haven’t had an attack on the mainland since 2001, don’t forget that the terrorists only have to succeed once. Your security services have to be right 100% of the time.
Safer? The US still has around 6,000 nuclear warheads, Russia has close to 16,000 and countries like Pakistan and Iran are building more all the time.
We didn’t get bin-Laden, our presence in Iraq is continuing to fuel anti-American feelings and our borders are still mostly virtual.
Safer? You can’t be serious…
@Malc Dow
Sounds like your a little disillusioned not to mention a slap in the face to those poor victims families. You have been watching to many Michael Moore films.
@ Susan
I doubt Michael Moore thinks the Jews were behind 9/11.
hey chole,
marking a day doesn’t really change anything at all except bring floods of memories.
world is in a dangerous situation where peception( created by the loudest of them all) is all that matters, not the truth.
so yea, today america marks 7 years….10 years on they still would mark the day, but will the world be any safer than it is today? I DON’T THINK SO!
People from around the whole have different view in this regards to this matter, this is my prospective as one New Yorker and only speaking for myself.
So I feel safer?
Not really, but this DEFINITELY does not stop me from going about my day and living life. The city officials often keep high risk threat details from us until after the fact, in many of these instances I wish I knew more on why the alert levels are raised from yellow to orange. I have to trust the government is doing its job to keep us safe; even though we are reminded daily to be on the look out for “usual and suspect” things and us to keep a “Go Bag” at work in the event of attack that is equipped with: a map, water, firstaid kit, running shoes, among other things.
As a New Yorker, I know we’re targets for various forms of terrorism. The horrific events 7 years ago scared us and in this moment of grief, the government exploited us by dismantling part of the foundation this county was built on violating our Bill of Rights. New Yorkers were among the most vocal and protested the controversial USA PATRIOT Act that violated our civil liberties. I have heard these years described as one that will mark the dark age of American History… Only time will tell, but we have paid the ultimate and highest price for security, that is not guaranteed.
[This is only thing I will say about this topic. Keep in mind, I am sharing MY thoughts and in no way trying to speak as an “authority” (because I am a new yorker) on this event that effected the whole country and in some aspects the world.]
mark the day with a heart stoping spech by McCain and Obama, but it really does’t change anything at all, cx when you really think about it, the peopl who suffered befor are still suffring.
nothing has changed
@ Steve (Your 3:19 PM Post)
You’re partially right. At the core of Al Qaeda are people so fanatic in their views that negotiation is unlikely to achieve anything.
However, the terrorist threat would be largely neutralised if the fanatics didn’t have the tacit support of millions (or billions) of more moderate people who let them get away with it because of genuine grievances and resentments against the USA, the UK and other western countries. If these grievances were addressed a huge part of the Al Qaeda power base–not to mention people like the London bombers–would not exist.
@ Bob
I agree, but there’s no excuse for targetting civilians. I don’t care about whatever grievance someone has. I hate the policies of Iran and Saudi Arabia, but I would never tolerate deliberate attacks on their civilians (such as subway bombings, suicide bombings, hijacking airplanes) because I don’t like their policies.
Ask yourself, if I conducted a terrorist act in Teheran, I conduct a suicide bombing. Would you care why I did it? Would you say “Steve did a horrible criminal act, but you must understand why he did it”???
@ Steve
Re: names for candidates
Well, since the Republicans are constantly plugging away at how Obama is Muslim and/or won’t fight terrorism, how about:
Obama bin Biden.
My bill is in the post.
(Seriously, I don’t believe in this at all…I just took it as a writing challenge!)
The world is not a safer place. I think Americans now know how unsafe the world can be. Before 9/11 Americans thought that they were invincible and no attack could be made on our soil, at least in the continental US.
As Steve stated earlier, there has always been hate against America. After 9/11 there was some world sympathy. After the invasion into Iraq, we lost a lot of sympathy. There are many reasons America is hated but on this particular day we should think about some of the positive attributes about our country.
There are several individuals that think that the US and Isreal were behind the attacks. Mainly because so many people decided to fear and hate all muslims than the extremists. Although I think these conspiracy theories are dumbfounded, I realized that most Americans cannot differentiate between extremist terrorist and muslims.
Thoudsands of people were affected that day and they included American muslims and jews. The animosity towards different ethnicities does not help our cause.
@ Bob
I like that!
Of course we feel safer. Keeping filled babies bottles off of the planes! Holding 3 year old kids off of planes because of the “No-fly list”. Dub-ya listening to my phone conversations. Of course we’re safer!!!
@ Bob and steve
“Terrorism is war of the poor, war is terrorism of the rich.” I forgot who said that.
-Anthony, LA, CA
Buck-O-Five….freedom costs a Buck-
O-Fiiiive!!!
@ Steve
Negotiating to end a terrorist threat is unpalatable and sticks in my craw.
Unfortunately, it’s the only pragmatic solution. Can you name a single instance when conventional forces have defeated a terrorist or guerilla threat? I can’t. A few determined people can always find a way even in the face of overwhelming numbers.
It wasn’t easy for the UK government to sit down with Sinn Fein…but it worked and the IRA isn’t bombing anymore.
@ Anthony
Can you provide factual support for your claims?
There are exceptions to the no liquid rules for baby formula/breast milk.
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm (Baby formula, breast milk, and juice for infants and toddlers.
All prescription and over-the-counter medications (liquids, gels, and aerosols) including petroleum jelly, eye drops, and saline solution for medical purposes;
Liquids including water, juice, or liquid nutrition or gels for passengers with a disability or medical condition;
Life-support and life-sustaining liquids such as bone marrow, blood products, and transplant organs;
)
Can you show that a 3 year old has been on a no fly list?
Do you really think Bush personally listens to you ordering a pizza?
I actually feel less safe now than I did after the attacks. I realize the US is doing a lot more now than before to prevent another attack of its kind but so many people dislike this country. We do not have as many allies as we should, who knows what other extremist group may try to come here. The terrorists are not just in the middle east and europe.
As Hiam stated earlier, Bush has been a great president in certain areas especially dealing with national defense. We now have more cooperation with foreign intelligence agencies. We will see how history regards him.
@ Bob
Yes, the British defeated the Thuggis in India
I don’t believe the world is a safer place, but nor do I believe it is any more dangerous. There is always danger in world, it just comes from different directions and has different faces.
40 years ago it was the Soviets. 30 years ago it was the IRA. 20 years ago there was a fear about former soviet republics going bad and selling nukes to the highest bidder. The last decade its been Al Qeeda et al. The events of the last month suggest next it may be a resurgent Russia for the next decade.
@ steve
http://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2008/07/a_new_argument_for_the_no_fly.html (breast milk)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10725741 (4 year old, I’d find the 3 year old one, but that would require time)
And my point is he CAN listen to anything for any reason.
@ Bob and steve
Did you see all those weird long postings aimed at you guys in the spam filter. WEIRD AND CRAZY!!!
-Anthony, LA, CA
@ Steve
Re: the “No Fly List”
How about THIS LINK
Or, while we’re on the topic, how about this professionalism in the TSA while they protect your safety: LINKY.
Just for reference, had the damage not been spotted, those planes would have been very dangerous to fly and people would very likely have died.
The British did that using methods that even Saddam would have found too brutal.
@ Steve
I’ll have to Google “the Thuggis” as this is a new one on me.
However, it’s worth noting the British were eventually driven out of India by terrorism/guerilla warfare.
@Steve
Can you show that a 3 year old has been on a no fly list?
Maybe not a three year old but…
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=518d11ec-3a2b-4314-965a-94810b39ef4e&k=83713
Canada uses the US no fly list.
With Osama Bin laden and his many Al Qaeda children still running around, how safe you are is dependent on you being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Susan USA September 11, 2008 at 3:52 pm
@Malc Dow
Sounds like your a little disillusioned not to mention a slap in the face to those poor victims families. You have been watching to many Michael Moore films.
—
Actually I feel very sorry for the dead and maimed, not only as a result of “bringing down the towers” but the subsequent Iraq fiasco, that looks like it’s going to move to Iran.
It is an engineering fact that the planes did not bring down the towers. Take it from there.
Malc
@ steve
I was referring to the conspiracy theory. I also doubt Mr. Moore blaims the jews.:)
@ Selena
The claim was in the US, and a 3 year old. Your example is a 15 year old, in Canada. George Bush doesn’t run Canada, yet stuff like that happens without the evil Bush??? Canada may use the US no fly list, but Canada is an independent nation that chose to use the list.
He also claimed that you cant bring a baby bottle ona flight, when you are allowed to.
So if you base your fears of some overbearing government based on claims that are not in fact, real, it’s not a rational fear of the government, right?
@ Susan
I don’t remember anything in Fahrenheit 9/11 being about conspiracies. He admits that muslim fanatics brought down the towers, but showed how the Bush family is in bed with the saudis, and allowed Bin Ladin’s relatives to leave the US.
Steve,
Check my links. I can’t claim a 3 year old, but I found an 8 year old American who has been on the TSA watch list since he was 5.
Oh…and an American airline pilot too…
@ steve
I posted the wrong link, but put one up about a 4 year old. I’d search for the 3 year old one, but I don’t feel like searching.
-Anthony, LA, CA
@ steve
Do a Google search for “year old no fly list”. The first two results cover a four year old and a five year old who were both hassled because their names matched someone on the list. Granted, they weren’t on the lists themselves, but this just proves how nonsensical our airport “security” is.
LOL Goodness Steve, don’t you know when to quit?
Although I don’t beleive in the theory that Malc stated, this article states that several people really believe in that theory.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/world/africa/09cairo.html?scp=2&sq=cairo&st=cse
@ Anthony
Then please don’t make claims you aren’t willing to back up. You were wrong about the baby bottle as well.
I can make lots of claims as well. We need to base these dicussion on fact.
@Steve
Now here is one for you:
Define a fact for me please?
To answer the question originally posed:
As an American, I am not safer because of the wars my government is engaged in. Those wars breed terrorists, along with suffering, deaths, grief, fear, and anger, at home and abroad.
The suffering of those who died in the attacks seven years ago, and the grief and loss of their families, has been enormous.
Such suffering cries out for justice, not vengeance, not more suffering. Justice may bring some healing, though it will not bring back those who died. Those who planned and committed the crime need to be brought to justice. Our wars have not targetted the perpetrators and have not brought them to justice.
As I was taught from childhood, two wrongs do not make a right. Vengeance–waging wars that kill the innocent along with the combatants, in revenge for the innocents who died– perpetuates a cycle of violence and suffering.
Heres the funny part. The mother of the 3 year old (now 5), has figured out how to get around the list. All she does is uses his first 2 initials instead of his first and last name.
i.e.
Instead of using my name:
Anthony Estrada
I could put:
A.C. Estrada
and get away with it!!! It’s a B.S. system, that anyone can get around. They should have more people monitoring and get rid of that stupid No-Fly list system.
-Anthony, LA, CA
selena, there’s no point to this is there? How does this contribute to the discussion. an example of a fact is the link I provided, saying that parents are not forbidden from bringing baby formula or breast milk onto a flight like the person claimed. The link is fact, making it truth. The claim wasn’t accurate.
The fact is that baby formula is allowed into flights when the claim was that it isn’t allowed.
No the world is not a safer place and the USA has become a Fascist Police State, daring the citizen to say anything other than what the government want the people to think.
The worlds citizens have no idea how a governments society functions. The very foundation of civilization is built upon disinformation created and used by nations to cultivate and facilitate a controlled orchestrated society.
Stooge presidents and theatric political incursions are the carrot before the horse pulling the carriage. Politics depicts the idea of freedom and democracy when the actual government is ran by a bureaucracy of specialized agencies with no choice given anyone actually at all. The violent actions of their military upon other countries and undue hardships on their citizen is a burden that all must endue to bring about a futuristic better world and all must do their part. Then you are told what you are to think and what you are to do.
The media is controlled and we are pelted with so many thoughts that reach into our very lives and it steals away our own thought and places it’s self in it’s place. The military is expanding to three times it’s size and the work force of the people is created to only support war and police control of what was once a democracy with liberty and the freedom to enjoy it.
@Steve
True. There have always been haters.
What we saw when the towers went down was the exercise of military power using human beings as missiles to deliver the payload. The question is what was the motivating force that allowed those human missiles to override their natural desire to live?
In my opinion, hate was. People who hate are very easy to manipulate. If you couple hate with a cultural belief that personal bravery is the most important characteristic of manhood, you have a weapon.
Canada
Steve
Don’t shy away from the argument.
I was talking about no fly lists and you have been given evidence that children have been hassled at airports because their names are on a no fly list.
You didn’t accept my 10 year old as proof of this “fact” because he was a Canadian.
You don’t accept a 4 year-old because the original statement was about a 3 year-old.
I ask again, ” What do you accept as fact, Steve?”
No the world is not a safer place and the USA has become a Fascist Police State, daring the citizen to say anything other than what the government want the people to think.
The worlds citizens have no idea how a governments society functions. The very foundation of civilization is built upon disinformation created and used by nations to cultivate and facilitate a controlled orchestrated society.
Stooge presidents and theactric political incursions are the carrot before the horse pulling the carriage. Politics depicts the idea of freedom and democracy when the actual government is ran by a bureaucracy of specialized agencies with no choice given anyone actually at all. The violent actions of their military upon other countries and undue hardships on their citizen is a burden that all must endue to bring about a futuristic better world and all must do their part. Then you are told what you are to think and what you are to do.
The media is controlled and we are pelted with so many thoughts that reach into our very lives and it steals away our own thought and places it’s self in it’s place. The military is expanding to three times it’s size and the work force of the people is created to only support war and police control of what was once a democracy with liberty and the freedom to enjoy it.
@ Lee Roy
Can you provide a single shred of evidence of this police state and how it as affected you?
Do you think the US government is telling people what to think, then oppressing them if they dont?Let’s have a test?
I think George Bush is one of the worst presidents in modern history. It’s a toss up between him and Carter. I think he makes horrible decisions.
Uh oh, there’s no secret police coming to arrest me now. Uh oh. Why haven’t I been arrested for thinking against the way you say the government wants us to think?
Any chess players out there?
Question: What piece on the board could represent suicide bombers?
I think the knight.
What say you?
Canada
@ steve
Read my post. Did I say it was a rule and regulation about breast milk. No, its proof of it happening at least once. You’re assuming like always. Why don’t you read what I write, instead of reading what you want to read, like always :).
-Anthony, LA, CA
@ Steve
If you Google a bit farther back you will find that baby formula WAS originally included in the blanket ban on liquids but this rule was later relaxed in the face of massive complaint and protest.
I note you haven’t yet commented on my links about children and professional pilots caught up on the over-zealous “no-fly” list. You’ve also not commented on my link to a story about TSA officers damaging 14 planes in Chicago in such a way that they would have been dangerous to fly if the error had not been spotted.
All this IS relevant to this discussion about whether we are safer from terrorism or not. Many of us believe, I think with justification, that the “war on terrorism” is more about bluster and being seen to do something than it is about actual security.
Iraq is a big example of this; children on no-fly lists are a small example but it’s all symptomatic of the same issues.
The fact is that baby formula is allowed into flights when the claim was that it isn’t allowed.
I couldn’t take my mouthwash and my hair glue when I went to FL…. It sure did make me feel alot safer though. Way more safer than 7 years ago.
Hi Chloe
The world was shattered by 9/11 and mourns the demise of so many innocent men and women today.
Talking America from LA yesterday showed that the reaction in California was muted on the anniversary of the incident, partly because Washington has pursued the wrong path since.
Ben Laden hasn’t been located and the world is no safer. The divide between Christian, Jew and Muslim is more strained and Americans, quite rightly, resent the vast sums wasted in Iraq.
Is there more hope on the horizon in the wake of the upcoming US presidentials? Unlikely.
The lesson of the last decade is that Iran must solve its own problems and look to its own. It is up to us to show the world that we can pursue peace and eliminate the threat of nuclear proliferation in our region.
Can Europe help? Definitely, so also the United States but through diplomacy and peaceful channels. The notion of arming Saudi Arabia to the teeth or installing nuclear power stations in the region is mistaken and will invite similar inteventions by Russia as we witnessed in Georgia .
@ Selena
The claim was made about a 3 year old. I already disproved the claim about baby bottles. You haven’t even admitted that was an incorrect claim, but expect me to admit to something that nobody has proven on here.
9/11 remains a turning point in modern history. It has put on alert the rest of the world, especially countries with close ties with the USA. Terrorism has struck all the corners of the world, mainly in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa.
For Morocco, the terrorist attacks on May 16th , 2003 in Casablanca was a wakeup call to have a stand against all forms of terrorism. Terrorism was viewed as something happening just in troubled parts of the world like Iraq and Afghanistan.
It’s evident that the consequences of these attacks made the authorities revise their security policies and arrest those suspected of involvement in future planned attacks.
However, Morocco is safer now as it has pre-emptive security operations to surround suspected terrorist cells. But it has also to remain vigilant as the threat can come from its borders with Algeria where the Al Qaeda is successful in mounting deadly terrorist attacks at least once a year.
Morocco is lucky, in that it doesn’t have armed groups as it is the case in Algeria, ready to mount battles even with the army. The Moroccans in their majorities have no sympathy for radical Islam that will do nothing but fetter their personal freedom.
In general, as long as governments all over the world don’t cooperate, despite their political differences, terrorism will find a safe haven, especially in areas known for their political instability like Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia.
What can eradicate support for terrorist groups in Muslim countries is the eradication of poverty and ignornace about the real message of Islam. If not, support for Al Qaeda and the like will be used as a means to express protest and hope for the “best”.
@ Brett
Shampoo and mouthwash isn’t baby formula, which the claim was about. If you get small bottles, of less than 3 oz, you can bring them on board. I have done this many times.
Yes Steve, the claim was about a three-year-old. Read my post about that!
As to the baby bottle stuff, why on earth would I admit to an incorrect claim? I have not been a part of that particular discussion. I have made no claim, one way or the other.
Think Steve! What have I contributed to that discussion?
@ steve
Wait, how did you disprove the baby bottle fact? You didn’t. Did you even read Bobs post or my post? Nope, you only read things that support your views, and ignore and won’t answer those that don’t. Geez, for not liking politicians, you sure work like one! 🙂
-Anthony, LA, CA
@ Selena
I’m saying that the baby bottle was a false claim, one of the several claims that I was responding to. That was a false claim, so is it unreasonable for me to eblieve other claims are false as well?
Can you admit that the baby bottle claim was false? I have found a link from the TSA which says that an exception to the 3 oz rule is for baby formula and breast milk.
@ Anthony
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm
Please read the link. It says that formula and breast milk is allowed. Are you going to suggest that it doesn’t say “bottles”? Please. You can bring an empty 2 liter bottle of soda on a flight. Of course you can bring a baby bottle on a flight, and with these rules, it can be filled with liquid as well.
Sitting here in the WHYS studio.. yes I am showing off.. what a buzz looking at the voices coming from the actual person and not just from speakers! Having just come from Paris to London, apart from increased security measures there doesn’t seem to be a discernable shift in life on the streets. There are the inevitable security upgrades and presence of security personnel out and about, but it seems that people here are not overly concerned. perhaps it is an artifact of living in the west with no recent serious incidents having happened. That may change were something to happen but perhaps complacancy, remoteness or a feeling of security has lowered people’s anxiety about terror across the world.
Shaun –
Couldn’t say it better myself!
The world safer? Nope – American fear is wide-spread, it has travelled around the world and has infected countries like Britain, and Britain dealt with the IRA etc.
@ Will/Shaun
Is it necessary to insult those people? They are doing their jobs, as mandating by congress/parliament.
Please don’t hold the actions of Britain etc on the US. They are adults as well and are responsible for their own choices. Blaming everything on the US isn’t going to cut it anymore.
Evanescent is the thought of our World Been a Safer Place. As long as
the key players of deadly attacks and those that incite these
terrorists (that’s how “THEY” called them) are around, are we or our
world really safe?
@ steve
Well, then with your logic, since it’s illegal for cops to pull people over because of race, then it never happens. Wow, you really should be a politician, hehe.
Once again, all I was showing was an instance of it happening.
-Anthony, LA, CA
steve,
do you think that the 3oz rule makes us safer?
@ Jens
If in fact people were trying to make bombs from liquids, which they were convicted of this week, then yes. we are safer. Sure, it’s an inconvenience, but if you would really rather be killed than check your bag, that’s your decision, but don’t expect everyone to die so you can have a gallon jug of mouthwash in your carryon.
@ Anthony
You’re changing the subject. I was right. the claim about baby bottles/formula was false.
@Roy
“Sadly the United States managed to squander much of the good will…after 9/11.”
One of my pet peeves is people who think like that. As if being attacked and killed can make people like you.
The more dead Americans there are, the better people will like Americans? As in, “The only good Indian is a dead Indian”?
Why not just have a lottery to pick people for sacrifice so the rest of the world will like you?
Who needs that kind of good will?
Canada
@ Steve
Have you seen the documentary Fahrenheit 9/11 of Michael Moore?
will,
would you want to deal all day long with obstruse and idiotic passangers with IQ’s in the double digits. i fly failrly frequently and all but the rarest of rare occasions have i encountered an unfriendly or rude tsa agent. however, in ever line there is an idiot, who has not graspped the basic rule of how to behave, what to do and do it in a timely and friendly fashion. i personnaly admire the tsa guys for their patients and friendly behavious in light of the stupidity they have to deal with. it’s not them, who came up with the rules, they merely do what they have been told to do, pretty much like every other employee, with the extra burden of not being allowed to screw up. so a wee bit more respect would be in place, since i would not want to deal with all the crap they are getting handed to.
“Impossible conspiracies, I disagree with more than deductive reasoning that the USA and other nations use individuals to create and continue conflicts.
Communication systems are the new weapon of war. They are microfilm sized whole duplex devices that are easily placed under the skin, embedded in the skull and hidden under the cartilage of the ear. These transducers conduct vibrations just enough to be heard and used subliminally to introduce thought, action and influence judgement.
Concerning Sept the 11th., everyone of those known involved were in Arabia before coming to North America.
Arabia imports the majority of it’s technical workforce. A country in doing so falls prey to the governments that those expert professional service personnel are imported from. A whole country can stealthily be manipulated and controlled in this fashion. That is where those individuals that flew those planes into New York’s Twin Towers were brought together and the plot schemed was orchestrated.
The reasons why is simple, to create a reason for the military to initiate controls and changes over the US Government.
911 was not the first of it’s kind. Information about the crimes and insertion of military agents within the federal government has been going on a long time. Information amassed concerning this treason and betrayal of the US Military against the American People has been destroyed through such horrific destructions of federal buildings and human lives.
steve,
they actually did not make the bombes they had a concept of making the bombs. it’s not as trivial as it seems, plus if they would use thes concoctions two guys with seperate mixtures in several 3oz bottles and an empty nalgen bottle would still be able to do so………at least this would be my guess
@ steve:
“Keeping filled baby’s bottles off of the planes!”
Read. Did I say this was a rule and regulation? No. Did I provide an example of this happening? Yes, and there are many more. You’ve proved nothing. Your logic is flawed.
-Anthony, LA, CA
No. George Buh’s aggressive policies against so many countries and peoples of the world has made more enemies for us. Even alliances that we had established in the past are being strained by his roguish lack of consideration for the rule of international law and multinational understanding.
On the domestic level, I feel that old, cold fear experienced by those whose governments intrude on every level of their lives.
We are not the KGB. We are not McCarthyists. We are not imperialistic China, which invades and occupies any sovereign nation that it pleases. We should stop acting like them and start being America again.
@ steve
He also posed the theory in the movie that the White House purposely tried to scare Americans into believing there was a terror threat after 9/11 so they could pass the Patriot Act, which they had already dreamed up before these 9/11 attacks even occurred.
steve,
i travel light and get my tooth paste etc from the hotel. a gallon of mouthwash is a classic steve-isme, slightly, but only slightly over the top.
i think it would be a good idea to actually standerdize the size of aftershave etc vessels, to let’s say 3oz and then whatever size, since even a halfull 3.2oz vessel is too large to be taken on board…
@ Jens
Go to your local drugstore, the trial section has lots of carryon friendly stuff. Target carries lots of carry on friendly stuff as well.
For a while, all liquids/pastes were banned. You couldn’t even brush your teeth on an international flight unless you had a time machine to get tooth powder!
lee roy,
lay off the scify channel []. the devices you describe do not exist. there is no way that a wee vibrating microfilm duplex device can affect thinking……we do not understand even remotly how the neuronal network call brain works and now you want to manipulate it with some duplex vibrating device. uhmmmmmmm conspiracy is such a wonderful thing.
Bush doesn’t run the government. He is a stooge, the alter ego and whipping boy of the government. The media does influence the public and the people are forced to comform as it’s peers.
Brett:
Do not count your eggs before they hatch…..
Dennis
@ Baby bottles on planes
What threat could baby bottles and formula possibly be during a flight? It’d just mean there would be fussy hungry babies.
you can purchased small bottles of personal hygiene products at any stores….not only at target….
@ Jens
I encountered very rude treatment by TSA agents about a year ago because I had the nerve to have a tube of toothpaste in my carryon. I was relying on common sense, rather than having to look every little thing up to see if it was allowed or not. Needless to say, they didn’t like that. And, I have heard plenty of stories from other people of rude treatment by the TSA.
@ viola
The US received an outpouring of sympathy after 9/11. That’s what I was referring to. The world community recognized that we had had a tragedy, and it responded in kind.
steve,
i know, but guess what? good hotels have tooth paste, deoderants, cream, shampoo etc. i only travel with aftershave and my allergy eyedrops, which i usually do not need where i go to, since it is not the high desert with juniper pollen.
@ Original question
Are we supposed to feel safer when we have been told for the last 7 years that we could get hit anywhere, at any time? I mean, “We’re at orange, where not sure by who, or when, or how, but something might happen for some reason.”. They WANT us to feel scared!!! I feel the same.
What do people think if would be like if Gore had won, like he really did???
-Anthony, LA, CA
@ Jens
I’ve only been to a couple of hotels that supplied shaving foam. IN japan, they have the coolest little cans of shaving foam. I still have some of them that I use when I travel. Sure, you can buy stuff at your destination as well, but not being able to brush your teeth on a flight really sucked. In europe, as of last year, you still cannot bring water on flights. Or this year, I forgot i was in Europe earlier this year. You can buy water in the airport and they wont let you bring it on the airplane.
@ Roy
If you have any liquids or paste, you’re supposed to put in in a clear ziplock bag, and take that bag out of your carryon. They say this to you as you enter the line. They ask i fyou have any liquids or paste in your bag. You probably said no, then when they found it, they got mad at you.
It’s like if a cop pulls you over and asks if you have any drugs in the car, and you say no, then when he finds some, he’s angrier with you than he was before.
roy,
it is common knoweladge that all liquids have to be in a quater gallon zip-loc bag, seperated from all the other luggage when being put through the screenin process. it is very visably display at every airport and the people who check your credentials advise you of this fact as well. so if you cannot read or are not willing to listen to the advise or you choose to simpoly ignore the rules i can understand why the tsa officials can get miffed off. you know they enouter nummpties like that at a rate of two to the dozend, which brings me back to the two digit IQ of certain travellers. there should be separate lanes for people who understand the rules and people who don’t or do not care about the rules. to make it easy “take your shoes off, remove all articles that contain metal from your body, take the laptop out of the bag and put your articles that contain fluids in a 1/4 gallon plastic bag seperate from your other possessions and hold on to your boarding pass, while you go through the metal detector”. that is it, nothing more nothing less, do it with a smile and thank the tsa official for protecting you, because that is what he does for his living. it works 100% of the time and nobody gets grummpy or rude….
steve,
yeah but europe is still about 10 years behind on the idea that drinking water is good for you. i hardly see anyone carrying a nalgen bottle (i prefere sigg of switzerland) with water, sipping from it. i actually travel with an electric shaver, that way i just throw it into my carryon, although i prefer a wet shave because we have only 20% humidity if that here in the SW.
“,,, at the very least changed America’s foreign policy, other people say it changed the world forever.”
US Foreign policy change was planned before 911 and 911 was just used as the excuse to put the changes into operation.
The group, The Project For The New American Century, or PNAC, wrote up their plans to Dominate the world back in the 1990s. In about 1992 Richard Perle wrote an essay saying that they, the PNAC needed a big event type attack on the US to use as an excuse to take the kind of special powers they wanted, War President, and to begin putting their plans into operation.
So, no, our world is not a safer place with the PNAC having taken over the US Foreign Policy as being implemented by Bush/Cheney. Nobody wants to be Dominated by the likes of Bush/Cheney and the apparently Neo-Fascist PNAC and we’re seeing Nations like Russia reacting by fighting back.
Steve,
wonder if you can get them in then usa, i have 1.5 oz cans but they are still a wee bit bulky.
Regarding flight safety the thing I fear on a plane isn’t terrorists; its the other passengers that give me the most worry. I’m a frequent flier and have encountered in just the last four years one instance of a drunk passenger causing so much hassle they nearly diverted to Turkey, two separate instances of irate passengers causing a delayed take off and airport security being called and one case of a passenger who decided that their hand luggage must go in the over head locker at the expense of everybody elses. When one bag was thrown out it ended up on my head causing dizziness ( I wouldn’t want to call it full blown concussion). These are just the highlights, there are plenty of other minor instances as well.
Are we safer? No! I think we are going be hit again but not in the same way. It could be with a bomb but al Qaeda may look at other ways.
A year or so ago we had bad dog food in the states. I still think that was a test to see how quickly the USDA would find the tented food. Lets remember that there is a lot of areas that al-Qaeda could hit with out a bomb. One area that would close the West down would be a massive attack on the World Wide Web. I think that is a really good possibility. With the hi-tech jobs going overseas what would it take for one employee to take a big sum of money to hack in and disrupt the system? All the security would be compromised and then a conventional attack could take place.
Jens,
I have never seen shaving foam cans that small outside of Japan. I can take a picture of one tonight if you like.
How are we safer when there are about 2 million more illegal immigrants in the U.S. so far this year. So we’re keeping the air clear, but the borders are like comdoms with holes poked in them, they’re just not safe!!!
-Anthony, LA, CA
@ Athony
Both the left and the right want illegal immigrants, but for different reasons. Right wants cheap labor, but not passing on the cost savings to consumers, and the left wants democrat for life votes.
We are in the Calm before the Storm, although we have not seen more attacks at home, we have shaken up the middle East and have given reason for others to want to attack the USA. (Civilian Casualties) In the United States we live life with underling fear, and are reminded of that fear each time we take our shoes off before going through Airport Security, or avoid crowds and large gatherings. When I see a major catastrophe, such as the bridge collapse in Minnesota, my initial reaction is, was this an act of terrorism? Prior to 9/11 I would have never thought or feared such events.
Are we Safer YES, do we live more Fearful? YES
@ steve & Jens
Banning toothpaste does not improve security, nor does setting an arbitrary 3 oz limit on size, nor does the magical ziploc bag. I was unaware that the rule specifically applied to toothpaste — again, because I had the nerve to use common sense. Even if someone did manage to sneak enough dangerous material onto an airplane, they would receive a very quick beatdown from their fellow passengers if they tried anything (see the Richard Reid case).
As I said earlier, the TSA is a feel-good measure that does NOT make us any safer.
@ steve
Are illegal immigrants allowed to vote??? All the lefties I know cry about human rights, and how everyone has the right to come to America for a better chance in life.
-Anthony, LA, CA
@ Roy
They outright ask you if you have liquids or pastes or gels. Toothpaste is a paste. You didn’t say you did, and when tehy found it, they were rightfully mad at you. Toothpaste isn’t banned, more than 3 ozs of it is banned from carry on. YOu can still put a huge tube in your checked bag if you want.
I feel there is more security in the US since 9/11, espeically in airports, but I don’t feel any safer. The actions of the US have done nothing more than to inflame terrorism, not contain it. I feel fortunate to be an American, but I do not feel proud. I am embarrassed to be an American in the global community.
@ Anthony
There are many allegations that illegal immigrants vote in national elections. All you have to do is reside to vote in local elections. Giving amnesty to illegal immigrants would make lifetime voters for democrats of 12,000,000 or so million people..
@ Roy
I agree. If I did have explosives that fit in a toothpaste tube (and was crazy and wanted to do something crazy), it’s going up my “you know what”, not in my carry-on.
-Anthony, LA, CA
@ Also
Lots of people on the left are opposed to being required to show photo ID at pooling booths to confirm the idenity of the voter. They think for some reason such requirements are racist. Only God knows why.
Some states give drivers licenses to illegal immigrants, so in some cases, certain states’ DLs can’t be used going through airport security.
All the changes that the American government have made in the years since 9-11 have not made me feel safer or more secure, rather, deeply saddened that I have watched my constitutional rights and everything the founding fathers stood for wiped away in the name of the modern Republican party’s agenda.
@ Kenny
Care to provide a single example of your constitutional rights having been eroded and affecting you or anyone you know?
roy,
to a certain degree i agree with you, but rules are still rules and if everybody works around them the operation works smoothly. i am more irrate at passengers that are not capapble of following the basic and simple ruels and instructions. you said it yourself, you were unaware and i guess you voiced your opinion as well……the problem is that commen sense is not something that prevails in a climate of fear
if they mix their stuff in the rest room and blow it up in there there will be no beatdown. you got to think about all possiblities and the toilet is a place where one can mix whatever.
the tsa actually accomplishes what it is set out to do. you can never ever achieve 100% security, but you can make it more difficult.
steve,
that would be neat if you could. we could open an import business of bringing them to the usa.
@ Steve
The Patriot Act – old news buddy
@ steve
Can you find any proof that illegal’s are voting. All the articles online that I’ve found are right wing conspiracy theorists, or instances where there are a few, which don’t really make a difference.
-Anthony, LA, CA
@ Will
I’d love to take credit for that quote, but I’d be doing a disservice to the late, great George Carlin.
But, as usual, I don’t just complain – I have a proposed solution. If airports are going to make the security their main defence, do it right and hire the right people. How? Increase the wages to attract qualified candidates. Ex law enforcement people come to mind. Then stop doing the knee-jerk response every time some whack-a-loon invents a new way to terrorize a plane.
Watch this: I bet that some time in the near future we’ll hear about a hijacker who stole the plane using a plastic fork, dental floss, shoelaces and a paperclip. Osama bin-MacGuyver. The day after that happens, we’ll all just have to travel naked, won’t be allowed to bring any bags onboard, and will probably be shackled into our seats like we’re riding a roller coaster. It’s ridiculous.
I am usually not a believer in conspiracy theories, but after watching Zeitgeist I must ask questions. I need to do much more research before I can believe any of it’s claims, but my confidence in the world economy has been slightly shaken.
I do not feel any safer than a felt before. In fact, because of the constant news about terror and terrorists I feel less safe than ever.
@ kenny
Please to provide an example of how the patriot act has personally affected you? Let’s not forget that Obama voted for it, as well as most democrats.
http://obama.senate.gov/podcast/051216-the_patriot_act/index.php
steve,
all you have to do is reside to vote in local elections?????
which state is that. green card holders are not allowed to vote….anywhere.
shawn,
i hope that when it is mandated that people have to travel naked, that we have different airports for good looking and ugly people…….just the image of hamburger munching naked folks puts me off lunch….
@ Anthony
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/sep/23/20040923-104542-8488r/
I’m sure there’s more, don’t have the time. Even if there isn’t much, that liberals are putting up a stink about photo IDs (claiming it’s racist) makes me think that they don’t want any hindrance to illegals voting in elections. How could you oppose showing photo ID for voting unless you have an agenda? How are photo IDs racist?
Its truely reveiling how so many of the participants in this blog associate international safety with a political party. The reality is that the “war on terrorism” has been fought on fronts all over the world for decades under both political administrations. Are we safer ?…I don’t think we will ever be truely safer. But we can certainly say that we are not less safe than we were seven years ago. As long as there are those who which to force their beliefs on others with ever increasing access to resources to accomplish their ends, our safety will always be at increasing risk. Therefore, we will need to pour greater resources into maintaining our safety as it is today. If we let our guard down, another 9/11 will certainly occur.
Here’s something funny!!!
I was playing my Xbox 360 online, and started to talk to people about the election, and your average 16-30 year old from the “red” states really, truly believe, in their hearts, that Obama is a Muslim with a terrorist background, and will “let all his friends in” to the U.S. to take over. I was amazed at the dumbness of these average corn fed young Americans.
-Anthony, LA, CA
I don’t feel safer. I now feel afraid of my own government. The US started off fine chasing bin Laden into Afghanistan, but then chose willy-nilly to attack Sadam. We wandered into the weeds squandering billions and killing thousands of innocents. Now we have lost the respect of the world, and the US citizens are under more and more surveillance.
Communication systems are implanted in many individuals all over the Earth. They are used anyway a government choses to use them.
Horrific events are created to create a situation that will give the government power over the thoughts and actions of the public, justifying their sanctions to ensure the safety of the people, creating a passive nature in their citizens. All the while a diluted individual is used to commit some crime to the loss of their life and innocent passers by.
Discourage are any thoughts of a violent demonic enslaving mind controlling government existing. Dialog exist nulling yet giving the pretence of freedom because it never can be used. Displeasure is formed by design, any notion that the events formed were done with any ulterior motive.
Some people would rather live in the dark about what evil things unscrupulous individuals do, condoning lies and murder, allowing their government to do anything they say their enemy does. They believe it is safer that way, never protecting their self any other way, at the senseless demise of too many innocent others.
@ Anthony
That’s a rather big generalization to make. All Americans are “dumb” especially “corn fed” which I presume refers to red states because a few on Xbox were dumb? I’ve met Germans in Germany who thought Toronto was in the United States. Are they stupid and are all Germans stupid because of that?
@ Heidi
I feel there is more security in the US since 9/11, espeically in airports,
I hope you don’t feel too safe at airports. There is more security but that does not equal safety. Take if from an ex-airline employee. Anyway, any new attacks will not take place with airplanes.
I feel that we have less security because the National Guard units are fighting a war and there is no body here to secure our country. We need to secure our borders, food supply, and water supply. Anyone can go up and place a biological contaminates in our food or water because there is no protection. We have to stop the war and bring the troops home to keep us safe here.
.
@ Steve
How about phone tapping – not that I have been tapped but really, how would we know, it requires no warrant now?
This is not a matter if it affecting me personally, it’s a matter of affecting the American people as a whole, though maybe asking you to think outside of “your self” may be hard.
The Patriot act striped many civil liberties, I don’t need to prove this to you. Maybe you should read it sometime.
@ Anthony:
I’ve noticed the same sentiments in Battlefield 2, online, and various other chats.
*sigh*
@ Shane
I saw zeitgeist too. I can’t answer all of the points, but my blacksmith roommate calmed my fears about one thing: the claim that hydrocarbon fires don’t burn hot enough to melt steel. It doesn’t need to. Steel just needs to be glowing red to fail (it’s apparently butter soft once you get a good cherry going) and a jet fuel fire burns hot enough for that. That is, of course, according to our 15 minute research in his metallurgy book and my internetting.
@ steve
“Likely to” and “very few” aren’t proof. There is actually no proof on that link that it happened, not one instance, just assumptions.
-Anthony, LA, CA
The basic thing is that, as long as one group of people hate another group of people, the world will be dangerous. Hate drives people to do unthinkable things and no one can predict that kind of irrational behavior.
Again, the guest is blaming US policy for the terrorism rather than expecting all humans to behave in a civilized manner. There’s nothing that excuses targetting innocent civilians. I don’t care what someone’s gripe is, if they blow up a bus, or hijack planes, who give’s a rat’s behind about their grievance? Their cause is illegitimate. People need to act like human beings, not monsters. There’s simply no excuse. If I had a problem with Iran’s policy and killed Iranians, nobody on here would say “but if you look to why steve did it, or if Iran didn’t have it’s foreign policy, then…”
Stop excusing terrorism! I assure you, you’re not immune from bomb blasts.
Communication systems are implanted in many individuals all over the Earth. They are used anyway a government choses to use them.
Horrific events are created to create a situation that will give the government power over the thoughts and actions of the public, justifying their sanctions to ensure the safety of the people, creating a passive nature in their citizens. All the while a diluted individual is used to commit some crime to the loss of their life and innocent passers by.
Discourage are any thoughts of a violent demonic enslaving mind controlling government existing. Dialog exist nulling yet giving the pretence of freedom because it never can be used. Displeasure is formed by design, any notion that the events formed were done with any ulterior motive.
Some people would rather live in the dark about what evil things unscrupulous individuals do, condoning lies and murder, allowing their government to do anything they say their enemy does. They believe it is safer that way, never protecting their self any other way, at the demise of too many innocent others.
anthony,
what do you eat? i think that corn will crop up, no pun intened, more often than not in your diet.
don’t you think it would be important for the obama campaign to actually address this once and for all?
Many more Muslims like him? They are mostly like him- disgusted by the perversion to their religion. That Mr. Perle believes other wise is very telling of the type of people who pushed us in to the wars -impatient and ill informed. How much of Mr. Perle’s speaking engagement money, salary etc are going to paying down the debt incurred by fighting the war that he and his buddies got us in to?
Has nobody seen The Power of Nightmares – Rise of the politics of Fear? It’s a BBC production which thoroughly debunks the idea of Al Qaida as the fearsome global network of terrorist the media has portrayed since 9/11 and paints a very different picture of what is really going on. In it the 9/11 hijackers are described as only having idealogical links to Bin Laden and not really a part of his network which wasn’t really a network to begin with.
Case in point would be that nobody is talking about sleeper cells, dirty bombs, high-tech cave lairs from which they are supposed to operate or any of that nonsense. Also to date I’ve not heard of a single person been put on trial for being a member of Al Qaida which must say something about the overblown fear and hype that has ruled the day since the start of this “war on terror”.
If anything the actions since 9/11 have created more terrorist who are happy to use the name Al Qaida given to them by the americans and the media because that gives them power in the form of irrational fear from the us in the west.
@ Anthony
I don’t know, but why are democrats so afraid of photo ID requirements for voting? Why is a photo ID racist? If they want rules that encourage illegal immigrants to vote, then they are doing a good job by opposing photo IDs.
Steve- 19 people. 19. The ‘vast majority’ of people, when unencumbered by a lying government (pick either side), behave wonderfully.
For the United States (“my” world, if you will), perhaps, a “safer” world may be the reality, but at what cost to the rest of the world? Do Iraqis visiting the local bazaar feel “safe”? Are Londoners riding the Underground “more secure?”
An anonymous texter says:
The US government’s response to 9/11 has left US citizens with fewer rights, a government with no checks on its power, and a world that had its sympathy for us.
Why are we even talking about Saddam when we are talking about 911?
Saddam had no relation to 911 attacks. US greed for oil was the only reason to justify the war in Iraq.
Iraq has gone from bad (under Saddam) to worse.
@ steve
Once again, you’re reading what you want to read, and missing what you want. See, once again, you should be a politician 🙂 Notice I used the word THESE, refering those the specific one’s playing online. If you’d like look up the definition of “THESE”, go here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary
-Anthony, LA, CA
Why are you having Richard Pearl or anyone from the American Enterprise Institute on this program? These neocons like Mr. Pearl will never admit they made a horrible mistake by invading Iraq. They conveniently refer to the 400,000 killed by Sadam, but they never mention how many have died as a result of the invasion. I can’t say if we here in the U.S. are safer or not. But I can tell you we have been lead into a hell hole and I can only hope that people like Mr. Pearl and others are held accountable for this horrible policy that I hope we repeal with the election of Senator Obama as our next president.
steve,
one can understand the reason for an action, but one does not have to condone it.
i for one will be fighting with my life against radical islam and it’s desire to conquer the world and tell me, my wife, friends etc how to behave what to do.
we have accepted the unacceptable for way too long. i have still issues with the larger muslim community, which has to the date not come out and stronly condemed the actions of these radicals. their statemnets were more like lip-service than anything. it almost feels as if deep in the hearts the wider muslim community accepts and almost secretly condones these actions.
I don’t know if we are really safer; maybe, just more aware. The attacks of 9/11 were a horrible and heartbreaking. The terrorist’s impact has not only been the loss of lives but, they have been the catalyst for losses of freedom here in the US.
The only strategy Richard Perle should be pushing is a broom.
lee roy,
stop this nonsense. you cannot manipulate what you do not understand. where are your sources about this technology, i just want to have a real good laugh while reading this fi9ctional account of mind control
Amazing that NPR/BBC would invite one of the PNAC neocons who lied America into war on Iraq to discuss whether the world is better off 7 years after 9-11-01!! Richard Perle is a liar and a war criminal!
Of course he will obfuscate and refer to how evil Saddam was, and say that the violence is much less now than when he was in power.
Perle should be tried at the Hague with Feith, Wolfowitz, Bush, Cheney, Hadley, Rice, Fleischer, Brimmer, Rumsfeld, Ledeen and the list goes on.
I have to think that it was wrong of Bush to declare a “New Crusades” early in his 1st term, that declaration certainly did not make me feel any safer and I can’t imagine that any Muslim anywhere felt any safer either.
@ steve
please refer to:
Anonymous September 11, 2008 at 6:28 pm
An anonymous texter says:
The US government’s response to 9/11 has left US citizens with fewer rights, a government with no checks on its power, and a world that had its sympathy for us.
now, why would more than one person bring up such a point?
I don’t think it’ll ever stop. There will always be terrorists…
we just have to make sure it doesn’t happen every year…
@ Brett
Yeah, it’s pretty sad. Here was the most heard reasons why Obama shouldn’t win:
1) He’s a ni@*er
2) He’s a Muslim
3) He’s a terrorist
I was AMAZED how those people think in the South!!!
And when I asked why McCain should win, those same people almost all said “because he’s white”
-Anthony, LA, CA
@ Kenny
I asked you to provide am example of how you have personally been affected, and you provide me an anonymous text which supports your opinion. Provide an example. Just one, of how the evil boosh government has taken away your rights and has oppressed you.
As listening to your programme about the 9/11-attac and the results seven years after. The world is not been save and will never be save, but that is life.
Giving up any civil liberty for the war on terrorism is not the answer. It would be better to show others how to live in freedom and with civil liberties and to be a free person, than fighting a non existing enemy.
Therefor the world is not a saver but a more violent place than seven years ago. Before 9/11 I felt save and free, now I feel save and prisoned as I had to give up some of my liberties. Thanks for the possibility to have our own program about the news.
Daniel from Germany but living in Sweden
No not at all. The 9/11 attacks were a good excuse for countries especially the US to tighten and remove many personal liberties and crack down on freedom of speech. These days you have to watch what you say to not appear “unpatriotic”.
The other very neglected and forgotten is what did Iraq have to do with 9/11 it certainly was a good excuse to invade a sovereign country. To say it was done for anything that altruistic motives is “unpatriotic
Moni
The middle-east has legitimate grievances with the west. The blind support for Israel and propping up illegitimate governments is indefensible. One cannot condone the actions of extremists, but if we do not at least acknowledge that actions of the west have some blame then the whole mess will continue. Perle seems to think that the terrorist attack was not political!!. If it was just criminal then why did they go through all the trouble and choose such a symbolic target.
I hope to see him in The Hague some time soon
@Steve
They have wire tapped my calls with no warrant.
Sending forces to Afghanistan made some sense from all I can gather, but certainly the Bush Administration (and Mr. Pearl knows this) used 9/11 as an excuse to go into Iraq, something they had been planning long before the attacks in New York and Washington, D.C. Check out Frontline’s “The Dark Side” to get more of the facts.
To hear Richard Perle talk with concern about the Iraqis is obscene. When he was challenged on a TV interview that the terrorists we were killing in Iraq hadn’t even been there until we invaded, he said he didn’t think that was a bad thing. “We’d rather fight them over there than over here.” Because off Perle and his kind the US has lost all credibility in tthe world.
Michael in Cleveland
How sad it is that dropping bombs from 30,000 feet is not an act of terror but when folks with no chance for survival do anything to retaliate for the hatred spewed by my country, U.S.A., it is always terror. You managed to find the two most hated right wingnuts on the planet to support their pov. When do you bring someone who is willing to provide an honest view of how many of us “americans” feel?
How “Fox” like for the BBC to have Richard Pearl – one of the architects of this misguided tragedy of permanent war as someone who’s opinion will be “fair & balanced”
As always the question is “Who Benefits”? answer – defense contractors and oil companies who seem to be doing quite well thank you very much. I’m sure Mr. Pearl’s portfolio has done fantastic.
Daniel,
how do you feel imprisoned.
i can move around freely, talk to whom i want to do, follow my hobbies etc etc.
like steve said can anyone here tell me how they have been imprisoned. yes certain aspects of the patriot act went too far, but one has to understand that these were re-actions following a terrible and devastating action.
i don’t feel as if my freedom has been taken from me. yes survailance is up, but who has visited london and how many security cameras have you encountered. now that is much more surveilance than having to carry an id card or give finger prints
Saver from who or from what ? Muslims countries are the richest countries in the world with natural resources to exploit by the dividends lovers of this New World Order. Muslims countries have been exploited for their natural resources, the ordinary Muslims is poorer today than ten years ago. Must Muslims countries that are friendly to the West are monarchy and yet This New World Order talks about democracy. There is more proxy wars around the world rage around the world by this New World Order than during WWII.
As a citizen of Western so call civilized world societies have more intrusion from my government than ever, I am been exploited more than ever but the utopians, been deceived by the elected in office.
They talk about freedom and yet westernized societies have created a police & spy state, they talk about prosperity & yet more & more citizens see the cost of goods & living rise as their power of purchase is in demises. They talk about peace and yet more & more children live in broken homes.
The United is States ‘dreams & way of life is not adapted & built to face XXI centuries problems. Capitalist ideologies is built to exploit human weakness it does not foster cooperation but confrontation. The 9/11 is a tragedy but wars are not only fight guns & bombs was can also be fight economically (embargos is an example of tools of war) , exploitation is another form of oppressions , the Twin Towels were the emblems of Capitalism & people working in those Twin Towels were involved in one form or another is exploitation & speeding utopians ideologies they were part & tools of war of spreading utopians ideologies of capitalism, Africa comes in mind the richest continent in the world where oil, natural gas, gold & all sort of minerals can be found with the right environment to have a thriving farming systems yet the continent is plaque with poverty.
Wake up the king has not clothes the true tyrants of this New World Order are the dividend lovers…
May God Bless this New World Order and its economics systems
In only God I trust
Why would Israelites be in Georgia when Russia invaded, why would a small countries like Israel mangle in Asia…
And I really don’t feel any safer because of the way our Conservative Republicans promote and exploit this victim mentality; Rudy “911” Guiliani being just one of the worst of of the bunch. They obviously use 911 to keep their political base in a state of cowering fear and willingness to give up our rights and liberties as American citizens. They use the threat of a very few radicals to keep Americans hostage in a perpetual state of War.
steve, you’re having just an inkling of what many of our present crop of political leaders have been turned into, which is nothing but LAIRS who are doing the biddings of their masters. How can bush look all you americans in the face ant tell you that there hasn’t been any terrorist attack in the US since 9/11? I think to them when the attacker, whether the person is a suicide bomber or lone range gun firing and trigger happy person, is not a muslim their atrocious doings are not acts of terror. The US has more home bred terrorists than any country in this world that I know of.
@kpelly
I provided a link saying that there has been terrorist attacks since 9/11.
@ Robert Thair
“Terrorism is war of the poor, war is terrorism of the rich.” I heard that quote somewhere, but I forgot. I like it though.
-Anthony, LA, CA
As an American, I am quite frankly appalled by Mr. Pearle’s and the Bush administration’s beliefs about the situation in Iraq and the policies that have brought us there. There is a no fly zone of truth that these people refuse to allow the discourse to enter. Each time someone brings up a valid point or assessment about the situation, they bounce the argument out of this zone by changing it or bringing in extraneous points that are not applicable. In this zone lies the objective truth: The invasion of Iraq was illegal and has done more harm to the Iraqi people than the reign of Saddam Hussein and U.S. foreign policy has done ABSOLUTELY nothing to make the world a safer place. As Hicham from France pointed out, U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East is directly responsible for the creation of Al Quaeda and the anti-American sentiment throughout the world. We cannot continue to support despotic leaders in the Middle East while claiming we are trying to foster democracy in this area. This is a nuanced problem that requires a serious analysis, not some black and white argument of good guy and bad guys
Don Portolese
Brooklyn New York
If we’re going to discuss the treatment of muslims in the west, especially after 9/11, what about the treatment of nonmuslims in the muslim world? Anyone tried to bring a bible into saudi arabia recently?
marco,
could you tell me what you are trying to say in about a tenth of the words. i know it is english, but i just do not get the sequence of your words and what you are trying to say.
An artist’s rendition of why events like 9-11 recur. I will only feel safer when the influence of the Neocons (including Perle, and other AIPAC Zionists) is reduced.
9-11 was used as a pretext for their war on Muslims.
———————-
September 11th, Andrew Horabin
September 11th, Andrew Horabin
Where were you on September 11th,
did you find a television and sit yourself down?
Did it look like America was a victim,
of terrorism of the worst kind?
Where were you on September 11th,
back in the year 1973,
when the CIA sponsored the
bombing of Pinochet’s Palace in Chile??
Where were you in 1954,
when the US Government sponsored a coup,
and the 120,000 Guatemalan peasants,
lost their lives at the hands of the dictators the US installed?
But all the stars send the hat around,
millions of dollars were raised and found,
but when people die across the sea,
you know it has nothing to do with you and me…
…and 1965 in Indonesia,
800,000 people lost their lives,
when the US sponsored coups against democracies,
Timor lost a quarter of a million more in ’75…
…and we’re in Hollywood,
we all know who’s good,
the Red, White and Blue,
they’re with me and you,
cause you are either with the States,
or with the terrorists,
but it’s the same thing,
the US is just the best at it…
ooh, ooh, ooh, oooh…
What do we know about places like Panama,
why do the bells ring for El Salvador,
Iraq, Somalia, Viet Nam, Nicaraagua…?
Did you know there are still people,
dyin’ in the Gulf War?
How did we get to be blinded by media?
Why are we sick from the things they are feeding us?
This George Bush Jr. is more than a terrorist,
breeding and training, he’s clearly the best at it!
Where were you on September 11th?
Were you sickened and terrified and praying for peace?
Did your fear only grow when the US Government,
went to war again and invited us all to take a piece?
Cause we’re in Hollywood,
we all know who’s good,
the Red, White and Blue,
they’re with me and you!
You are either with the States,
or with the terrorists,
but it’s the same thing,
the US is just the best at it…
ooh, ooh, ooh, oooh…
From James B. Tinsley, B.A.
Fort Smith,
arkansas-USA
Christian Orthodoxy and Judaism are much more terroristic and dangerous than Islam. They pre-date Islam and all three religions arise from the same Mosiac Code. They are three poisonous flowers on from the same superstitious seed.
As long as any of these religious frauds are permitted to be considered in any part of a government no one is safe.
James B. Tinsley, B.A.
Fort Smith, Arkansas-USA
david,
who is they and how can you be so certain??????
Policy creating terrorists- yes. It’s obvious that the non-diplomatic approach has increased the number of terrorists. It is somewhat less obvious that on the other side (here) they have also succeeded in creating fundamentalist anti-terrorists.
These two elements are what we see pitted against one another in the news. The 99% of us that aren’t that, who get little to no pundit/media attention are left to wonder and wait.
It appears we are engaged in many war like actions- not just with missiles and bullets.
@ Martha in Florida
Sure, something had to be done, but that doesn’t automatically mean launching attacks on any country we deem to be part of an “axis of evil”. I accept that there is probably a large bit of non-public knowledge about this, but the fact that so many other countries favored a less aggressive stance towards Iraq should have told us something. Diplomacy could have been put to better use in that situation, even with the likes of Saddam Hussein. If that doesn’t work, and if military action is justified, then and only then do we use force.
Steve seems to think that the U.S.A. is comparable to other authoritarian regimes but isn’t willing to admit that we once had a Constitution and a Fourth Amendment. I’m talking about citizens that have been tortured, sent overseas and murdered so that people like you can defend acts of terrorism by our once free country.
james B.
come again….
i have not seen many orthodox christians and jews buring down embassys and killing nuns because of a bunch of cartoos. you must be kidding, right?
@ Robert
Can you provide an example of US citizens being tortured, sent overseas and murdered?
@ steve
I guess your right, I’m just ignorant and bias because I feel unwarranted tapps on phone call, acquisitions of local library records, and extended detention without charge periods is a change in our rights.
No, I cannot say any of any of these has happened to me, the first two because these are now allowed with out warrent and I and you would never know- as mentioned, the later because I have no reason to be detained – I follow the law.
Again, this is about America as a whole. Please stop trying force your concept of the “I” to me. If you feel that there have not been people affected by the changes brought on by this act then you are just confirming you know nothing about it. Perhaps you were younger when it passed and don’t really remember the number of amendments in which it blatantly changed to suite the needs of the party.
Jens, “they” would be all the major phone companies and suspension of FISA and the government. Read a paper once in a while.
Steve, read a paper and learn about “extraordinary rendition” or Guantanomo. Have you never heard of Jose Padilla?
robert,
are you sure about citizens???? they may have been citizens but not citizen of the usa…….
i do not agree with the iraq war, but boy i would have unleashed hell upon afghanistan and stay until we were finished there. in fact i would have gone after the taliban, before they destroyed one of the world heritages, which was months before 9/11. these people understand only the reason that falls from great highet or comes out of the end of a barrel
@ Kenny
I would be most distressed if the US government every found out which DVDs i rented from the library. Has this power ever been even used a single time? Why did Obama vote for the Patriot Act?
America is safer, yes. The Jihadists are good in that having them allows the American system to continue to develop methods that work against this sort of organization. We make mistakes and learn a lot.
Invading Iraq was a super good move. That was a major horrible nest for destruction of a lot innocent nations and people. A good experiment in an attempt to offer an alternative to dictatorships that had only the promise to be ever worse. Iraq was a threat. Had to be dealt with.
North Korea, Iran also have to be dealt with.
Bushes only real mistake was he was too soft and did not demand the vast numbers of Americans to sacrafice toward the war effort and we should have used more diplomacy with India and Pakistan to get flat with it. and deal with the lawless jihadist areas in their remote areas.
troop
robert,
no they did not. read any of the news as well. how do you think “they’ would be listening to everybody? ever thought about the storage capacity required? probaly not.
jose padilla was not send overseas and is as far as i am aware still alive…..
@ Steve
If probable cause (of course opinion is in the eye of the beholder) is found, than yes, your record of rentals (from the local county library at least, I do not believe a private company like Joe Blow’s Movie Rentals follows same stipulations) can be acquisitioned and reviewed.
This from another anonymous texter:
If US actions after 9/11 do not make the world safer, US inaction will certainly make it worse.
Putting aside the war on Terror, does anyone feel safer as a result of the policies implemented in the US in the name of National security? Has the Patriot Act, Protect America Act, Guantanamo Bay, wireless tapping, the extradition of suspects, etc made anyone feel safer? What about the fuzzy lines that have been created between torture and interrogation in order to get information: has that given anyone any comfort?
More importantly, has the lovely color coded terror chart made anyone feel safer? It’s been stuck on orange for years which means what? Plus its ugly as hell- we should have used smiley faces
@ Robert
Extraordinary rendition refers to non US citizens caught in 3rd nations, taking to countries where they torture people. Someone suggested that US citizens get tortured, then removed, then murdered.
troop,
10 billion a week, while our contries goes to the dogs?? not sure it was that a great idea.
@ Steve
I do believe the major concern is the the literature read, though many libraries these days do have movie, music, etc rentals.
What I find incredible, and and rather sad, is the self deprecation that we in the West indulge ourselves in. I was just listening to American callers accusing their own country of being to blame for Islamic terrorism. This pathetic contrition only plays into the hands of those who wish to damage our Western cultures.
The West isn’t to blame for the catastrophe of 9/11. That was a dreadful attack and anyone who defends it, or tries to excuse it, is not in possession of the facts. More likely not in possession of their faculties.
Terrorist attacks pre-dated Iraq. Iraq has, unfortunately, become an icon for the liberal left, anti-war groups and those with anti-American attitudes, and has become a divergence. Islamic fanatics, and maybe all Muslims, are intent on creating the UMA. A world that is based on the 7th century Islamic culture and beliefs. Does anyone with a degree of intelligence want that kind of future?
We have to defend ourselves and our cultures, and force is a legitimate tool along with discussion. However, if recent history has taught us anything it is that talking is never enough, and talking is something that the Islamic terrorists are not interested in. There seems to be no halfway with such people.
I am a Brit’, and I can see that our culture and traditions are being attacked by Islam. If I were to make the same demands on an Islamic government, as Muslims do on mine, I would at best be imprisoned, at worst decapitated.
kenny,
the internet has much more explicit literature (covering any topic) than any library……
I listened in astonishment as one of your guests opined that the U.S.
HAD to attack Afghanistan, and he couldn’t imagine anything else we might have done!
9/11 was a crime! Terror is a tactic! One cannot fight a “war”
against a tactic! Who would surrender? When would the “war” be over?
Following the crime of 9/11, the U.S. SHOULD have activated our own FBI and CIA and initiated contact with other intelligence and police forces around the world. 9/11 initially inspired worldwide outrage and sympathy. All of that was squandered by the Bush administration with its ill-considered decision to respond with military action, which invariably kills innocent and uninvolved men, women and children. We could have offered rewards for information. We could have involved most of the world’s nations and peoples in resistance to violence as a means of resolving problems.
The best we can say about the U.S. attack on Afghanistan – including inhumane cluster bombs whose bomblets looked very much like the food packets we were also dropping – is that it’s been unsuccessful. The Taliban have regained strength, women are back in their burqas, opium continues to flow westward to devastate people’s lives, and violence continues with no end in sight. The proposition that weary U.S. forces will be redeployed from Iraq to “fight the Taliban” is another recipe for disaster. There’s already friction with Pakistan, whose mountains provide shelter for the Taliban.
Louisa
San Rafael California
@ Kenny
Has that library power ever been used? Has the government ever requested this information be turned over?
I heard a guest speak on “Democracy Now” out of New York whose brother was in one of the Twin Towers. She joined a peace group after she heard George Bush USE her brothers name as one of the excuses to wage war. She said for the first time she understood collateral damage. She said, no war, not in my brothers name. She went to Afghanistan and met with families who lost members due to US bombing in retaliation. The original idea was to win the hearts and minds of Iraqi’s. How can that be done through killings?
Vanessa
It’s crystal clear that the war on Iraq was a misadventure and we are now stuck there.
The world is not safer and perhaps more unstable because of the foolish actions of my government.
My government has irreprebly damaged many lives by their military actions. We Americans are much poorer, having spent 800 billion dollars that could have been used to improve the standard of living for people throughout the world.
Scott
Alameda, California
I am from Portland, Oregon. I do not feel safe having Government with such power as wiretapping, waterboarding, secret courts, sneak-and-peek searches, arrests without charge. The reason for being unsafe in the world is largely due to Government intervention in other countries. It’s dangerous to travel in South and Central America due to our CIA overthrowing Governments there (See Allende). It’s dangerous to travel in the Middle East because of our intervention in those countries.
I do not think that Al Qaida exists. The only people that have been accused of being in the Terrorist organization are Richard Reed (Looks like a Reed College dropout), and Jose Padilla. If you look at other organizations like Hamas, they have actual members in Israeli prisons who can give you an accurate message as to their drive. Ask one of the accused Al Qaida members what their message is – there is none.
People believe in this 9-11 bunk story. 200 people on a plane, 3 people get on with box cutters and no one does a thing? Now, I can’t have a pocket knife or toe-nail clippers on a plane. Also, the buildings in NY collapsed without pillars being exposed, which does not occur with the structure of the buildings in NY. It is structurally impossible for this to occur without assistance of explosives.
If people want their government to spy on them, they should move to a country like China which already spies on its citizens.
Lowell
Frank in Italy sent this text message:
Whether the world is safer seven years on? That’s the greatest responsibility coming down to the next US president and commander in chief!?
America is fighting the shadow of it’s own foreign policy. It is has been radical Islam’s greatest recruiting master before but mainly since 9/11. it’s proposed bombing of pakistan border regions will be more of the same and worse to come.
Kevin in New Zealand
But I do believe a lot of people think the world is as safe as they thought it was September 10th 2001.I am not one of them.But the overall tone of their arguments seems to be isolationism,ignorance or self-deluded fantasy.It is scary how little realistic thought some people give to the possibility of another devastating attack.
Helen
Hi.the events of the last 7 year have shaped the world,thats definate.certainly they were never the first.they were never in anyway to be the last.AL Queda can be combated.but not with bombs,but ideas,positive action and soft power.here in kenya,life too has changed since the August 98 bombings.it’d be easy to demonise the perpetrators.but i personally believe the de-humanised people of palestine need a voice.sadly its a voice never loud enough.
Maina
Richard Perle sure flogged his Conservative Christian Republican base with the whip of fear of Muslims didn’t he?
He is a professional extreme right wing propagandist and he’s good at it, Goebbels would have been proud!
@steve..get a life!
no the world is not a safer place and the US govt is very largely to blame.
Good for you, WHYS, for having Richard Perl on. He has a good understanding of events and their genesis in the world and what to do about them and clearly expresses that understanding.
So many in the world seem to believe that the only problem in the world is American aggression. That attitude is naive at best and terribly dangerous at worst. The world is simply more complicated than “We good, you bad.”
@ happy “red”
You don’t have to insult me to make an argument. You state an opinion without saying I have “no life”. You are perfectly free to blame the US for whatever you want. More power to you.
lowell,
your comment is an insult to all the people who have died and have suffered the loss of loved ones.
the mantra was not to attack any hijackers, that is how they managed to get the planes. however this has changed in part due to the heroic attempt of the people of flight 93. i can tell you one thing for sure, if i see some arab swining a box cutter knife in a plane i will be going after him and stick it where the sun don’t shine
@ jens
I would think that the wording defining what constitutes phone tapping would alow for review of your internet history, well thinking further probably not. If you were a suspect in a terrorist case the acquisition of your computer by the government would reveal anything that you had used your computer for.
@ Steve
I can not tell you if it’s ever been used, I don’t know if the government has to release this information.
I know that you may feel that I am being extreme and drawling conclusions (or at least contorting the facts) but if it helps my creditability I am the son of a retired Lt. Colonel of the USAF whose position was an agent for the Office of Special Investigations. That basically means intelligence work. Even he finds things to be in opposition of what he views to be Republican Values.
From James B. Tinsley Arkansas-USA
As a matter of fact I believe the entire Old Testament of the Bible which is in effect the foundation of the Torah or Jewish Bible is mostly the retelling of Jehovah’s commands to kill, ravish and plunder many other people and nations. It is, and has always been the justification for the Jews contemporary holocost being committed upon the Palestiians.
As for Christian orthodoxy, have you forgotten, or are you unaware of the thousand years that is known in human history as the “Dark Ages?” The Catholic Church killed, burned, and tortured for a thousand years. The current war on terrorism being perpetrated by the United States, and in fact our foriegn policy torward the middle east and Arabs since before the end of world war 2 has been, on the surface about oil, but in reality is the resumption of the Crusades. And if you will remeber the Musilm “imposters” whipped the Christians butt and ran them out of the so-called “Holy land.”
And furthermore, lest we forget, how many African slaves and Native Americans were mamed, burned, tortured and slaughtered by the mandate of “Manifest Destiny” so that Christian capitalists could take what did not belong to them because America was “God’s country.”
Come now, can you deny any of this?
James B. Tinsley, B.A.
Fort Smith, Arkansas-USA
Abdulah Kosiah in Monrovia, Liberia, sent this text message:
Since 9/11, the world has become more unsafe than before because the enemy of Islam attributed Islam with terrorism. Shame on you president Bush.
@ james
The jews are conducting a holocaust on the palestinians? LOL
Kill two birds with one stone, deny the holocaust and accuse the Jews of doing to the Palestinians what you likely deny was done to the jews!
Come on James, admit it, do you think the holocaust was made up, but you think there is one happening against Palestinians despite their population growing exponentially? W
kenny,
it would but then i am not a terrorist and do not engadge in illegel activities. they would find that i read the news papar, book vacations, buy calida underpants on sierratradingpost, have bought furniture at overstook.com, contribute to whys, check my work e-mail and yahoo. account and that is it pretty much it.
Max Ajanga in Kampala, Uganda, sent this text message:
By the time terrorists waged their attack they were ready and nobody who is pro-Bush is safe. Until Osama is dead or captured.
On this 911 I will tell you the truth about 911. There were military exercises being conducted that morning for defense against hijackers taking over planes and flying planes into buildings. The planes that hit world trade center were remote controlled and flown from controls located in pentagon. They got real airline pilots to fly what the pilots thought were simulators.However the pilots were flying the real planes in real time. Then they had to hit pentagon to cover up the plot. They did this with a cruise missle Goto 911 truth.com or pilots for 911truth.com The plane that crashed in Pennsylvania it is reported by first responders had no blood on it whatsoever. If there was no one on plane how was plane flying?
Elwin in Malawi sent this text message:
We are safer because the terrorists are now always on the run.
@ Abdulah
“Since 9/11, the world has become more unsafe than before because the enemy of Islam attributed Islam with terrorism. Shame on you president Bush.”
So Bush is the enemy of Islam? Bush attributes Islam with terrorism?
That kind of sounds like the muslim outrage at the Mohammed cartoons. They would say it’s a religion of peace, and then demand the head of the artist of the cartoon. And then threatening with death those who suggest islam isn’t a peaceful religion?
Welcome to the world of realpolitik. Your “apples/oranges” discussion was most annoying. The U.S. took out Saddam because he egregiously exceeded the parameters of the control allocated to him by the U.S. in breaching Kuwait’s border (note that had he invaded Iran or Yemen, the U.S. would have had a “ho-hum” attitude. At that point in time, Saddam became “unamageable”; ergo, he had to go. Problem: what then? No obviously popular successor loomed on Iraq’s horizon. Problem2: what now? We’ll create a democratic state. Ergo, where Iraq is now, and why the lives so many, many young American men and women have been sacrificed. God rest their souls (excuse me atheistic humanists for having invoked the “G” word; noto bene: al quaeda has just opened a radical atheist wing (open to membership for westerners).
The media’s profits have been (NPR, most respectfully excepted from this criticism) greatly expanded from programming that juxtaposes moral principles with the reality of world politics. It is a never-ending font of palaver since the two can never be reconciled. As a result, thinking people are chronically assaulted with this flotsum.
Please forgo the political moralizing (IT IS AN OXYMORON) and dissect the political ramifications of this issue.
james,
how many people got killed in the name of communisme? the world has always been a place of war. how do you think mankind evolved, not because we are a bunch of peace loving hippies that eat berryies and make love in the bushes.
hell war and conquest has driven development since the stne age.
in fact i will deny the lot. look at islam it is the most violent religion requiring it’s followers to wipe out or convert all non belivers. kind of missed that section in the bible.
and buddy, in case you are not aware of it i am an ATHEIST and i am proud of it, since there is no god in my life telling me kill anybod in his name.
ray aid,
and you have prove of this. obviously……
stop insulting the poeple who have died and lost loved ones. you are a disgrace to spread such obviouse lies.
conspiracy theories are spread and drummed-up by seriously mentaly disturebed people who have an overriding aim to be recoginzed as something.
there are treatments available for such psycological disorders
George from mozambique texts:
Everything is up since September 11 especially the fuel. Thus the world has changed.
No, definitely not a safer place, in fact, a truly scary nation on the brink of a serious breakdown (see Rome circa 100 ad., the aftemath of Nero and the burning of a large part of the city, waging wars with multiple enemies, economy slipping, chaotic leaders and a grossly mismanaged government. The empire fell in 492 ad., officially.), add the advance of technology and we have about 50 years left, on our current misguided course. Everyone is afraid, especially those who vehemently defend this administration and its 8 years of creating a hell on earth for millions of people at home and abroad. All the hyper hairsplitting about fact versus fiction. What happened to your gut instincts screaming at you and you listening because you trust yourself and what you know, instead of cowering behind these endless discussions. If anyone feels safe in the current world, they are deluding themselves. Prosperity and peace can be wrought with a gun, but it will crumble because guns were not created to be silent, ever……
The US Mid-East policy for 50 years has spawned a rabid anti -US reaction in the Muslim world and created a volatile environment with the world threatened .The Bush administrations 41 and 43 lied to the American people and continued an anti-Arab policy which started with Truman’s controversial recognition of Isreal in 1948.We are reaping the whirlwind and the greatest damage has been to the American Republic ,its Constitution and the basic freedoms it guarantees.America has become a garrison state with an increasingly intrusive government and a loss of personal freedom.Iraq is the apogee of arrogance and the result has been a pernicious undermining of democracy in the US.The neo-cons who promoted the war agenda as part of the Isreal Lobby have a common root with the left which destroyed the Weimar Republic in Germany in the early 1930’s and brought Hitler to power .The increasingly authoritarian government here could end democracy by fiat were a nuclear attack to occur and as in the past a reign of terror could result . The lights of freedom would go out all over the world.The world is on the brink of an abyss and we ignore at our great peril
As an naturalized American Citizen who have fought in both Iraq and Afghanistan I want to believe the World is a better place. However I think we are still susceptible to terrorist attacks from many different angles. None the less, we are now more prepared to deal with threats, we are now aware of the capabilities of our enemies and are more on the alert for suspicious activities.
Eric in San Jose
I do not know about the rest of the worl; my country is safe due to the resilience of our President. We did not have another attack after 9/11. Al Qaida is on the run or hiding in a hole.
Mathew
USA
I would like to ask Mr Pearl if he had the choice would he live with his wife and children in the Baghdad of before the invasion or after.
Javad in London
The Bush Camp response to 9/11 has been nothing but misguided and wrong from its misled war on Iraq to its continued unlawful presence there and now its atrocious airstrikes on Afghan villages involving the deaths of civilians.
It seems to me to properly solve the problems of terrorism we should know why people attacked us on 9/11 instead of going out and bomb- ing other innocent people. This has been the great failure of the Bush Camp’s 9/11 response and it has cost us and others dearly.
Now we have thrown billions of dollars into military buildup and actions which has placed us all at greater risk for terror acts and it has left over 5,000 US soldiers dead, plus the 3,000 people who lost their lives at the trade centres, and God only knows how many Iraqis from the daily blood-baths (over one million victims and growing ) and Afghanistans.
Not to mention how the Bush Camp has squandered the US surplus left by the Clinton Adminstration and place the US in a terrible financial hole that will take decades to pay off and square away.
Outraged in Massachusetts, Mary
As a young American student at a University, I deal with the reprocussions of terrorism everyday via travel and other events. I believe that my country has become safer (domestically) with the steps that my government has taken post 9/11, however I don’t think that the U.S. governments international steps against terrorism (the war in the middle east) has been as successful. I am happy and feel more secure with the tighter domestic laws and regulations that the United States has taken as a precaution against terrorism, but I believe that the war has taken it too far and I also believe that it has done nothing but create a global agnst and conflict, when really the United States should be working with the international community to ensure and help provide safety to all instead of selfishly doing what they think is best, which has turned out to be, in my opinion, almost a complete failure. Basically, while I feel safer at home, I feel that the international community has become less safe as a result of my government’s actions.
Brandi
Eugene,Oregon
I feel less safe in the United States and a whole lot poorer. Richard Perle is a tremendously funny man(abeit a dark and perverse humor) and should be encouraged to take his neo-conservative comedy act on the road.
James
Arkansas-USA
@ Jens,
Great, then you have nothing to worry about, along with most law abiding, decent Americans. This does not be-little the fact that It has striped us of ever feeling we have a right to privacy. I trust that you would never provide a reason to be under investigation, especially to the point where they felt they would investigate what you have used your computer for, but believe me it happens. I’ve personally met agents in which that is exactly their job – to find registry values, browser history’s, file uploads, etc. All of which the average computer user has no knowledge of how to maintain, erase or even view – a lot of information remains on your computer for pretty much the life of it.
As a Muslim I actually feel more threatened by my govt. Especially that my freedom of speech is restricted.
Dave USA
How can one declare a war, on something that is not win-able!? ‘We had to do something’… yes, but the question is what and how. As an American living abroad in Europe, it deeply angers and sadens me, how the Bush government has lied to the country, not taken care of the country he claims to love and led the U.S. on a road to bankruptsy to boot. And the next poor sod in the white house will have to dig the country out. All I have to say is… Let’s pray it ain’t McCain and Palin.
Glenn Gibson, Switzerland
What a dum question. What does it matter safer before/after 9/11? Asking if the government(s) RESPONSES to 9/11 is important, but with thousands of different actions, each one has a different answer.
What would be a better questions IS THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE?
What did 9/11 accomplish? Before 9/11, Islamic extremists had an operating government in Afghanistan, Americans didn’t “hate” them, etc. Now, EVERY ONE is worse off. Christians, Jews, Muslims, even Osama Bin Laden. The U.S. is now occupying Afghanistan and Irag. How did the terrorist acts help anyone, even those who sympathize for Bin Laden? That would be a good question.
Bob in Oregon
The entire premise of thie program is focused on how safe Americans feel in particular since 9//11. Most of the developing world lived in fear for decades. Truth be told, some of the fear and suffering was brought on by the poliices of the USA and European allies. As for whether I feel safe, I feel no change personally. I would imagine that that is not the case for Iraqis, Iranians, and others in the Arab world.
Thea in the US
I thank you for allowing what post you can. Sorry the world is the way it is. Telling a world about it isn’t easy to do. The taboos and fears of a lifetime are dealt with. In many it is used as a driving force against the truth. The controlled media has influenced and created a public that never thought on their own. They can be used very violently and think anyone giving explanations other than what their media says is a enemy and a traitor when they are not. My lifetime is the reason I think as I do. The continuation of cognitive thought from the first few moment of birth has a individuals mental process existing above the creation of time and the formation of each moment. There is not one thing that exist in the world as how it came and can come to be that is not fore known.
Lee Roy in the US
@ Steve
“Stop excusing terrorism! I assure you, you’re not immune from bomb blasts.”
Bush did Shock and Awe against Iraq from 30,000 feet with the purpose of terrorizing the Iraqis into immediate surrender.
Like someone said:
“A terrorist is a bomber without an airplane!”
@ jens
Computer acquisition can happen at a local level as well, this is why you hear, sadly often, about pedophiles and all the “porno on their computers.”
@ Kenny
Have you found an instance of the library power ever used? I’m waiting!
The US government has lots of powers it doesn’t use. If they want to build an interstate through your house, they can force you to sell to them, so long as they pay market value, they can force you out of your home due to the power of emininent domain. It can happen, but is pretty rare.
I’d be more afraid of more realistic things, such as car accidents than the government seeing which harry potter books you rented if they ever actually used the power, which they haven’t.
@ Steve
I do not deny the holocost, nor do I believe it was justified in any way. I do however, believe that it is old news and there have been several holocost since that are just as horrible. Such as in Ruwanda, the Sudan and, yes, in Palestine. And these holocost are just as abhorrent as the one against the Jews. But my point is that it is the logical and natural result of religion. And what are the three major religions in the world?- Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Practcally every conflict since the mid-1980’s has been directly or indirectly related to one of these religions. Even the nearly half-cenury of conflict between the IRA and Great Britain. Again, my point is that religion is the underlying and fundamental “cause” of conflict. It does not make my world, your world or anyone’s world safer, but in fact endangers us all.
James-USA
@ James
How is what is happening in palestine a holocaust, to use that word in comparison to the holocaust and Rwanda? Israel has killed fewere Palestinians in 40 years than Jordan has killed in a couple weeks during 1970.
Yes, I agree, religion has done more harm than good, I would love a world free of religion, or at least the extremism that follows it. To think that people have been killed over a fictional book character.
@ Ray,
I am so sorry you took a look at that sight.
The plane that crashed in Pennsylvania it is reported by first responders had no blood on it whatsoever.
One of the Managers in my hanger went to PA as part of the first responders. He was there within hours (he was in Indianapolis at the time). You may not know how an airplane full of fuel – going into the ground at over 300 MPH+ will react. First, an airplane is made of mostly aluminum, which vaporized on impact. The jet engines, which are 8 feet long, were just inches thick at the crash sight. You see, nothing can withstand the heat that was created with the fire that would have been created. Any blood would have been burned up. Everything would have been burned up. There is no way the government would have done this.
Tom D Ford
September 11, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Like someone said:
“A terrorist is a bomber without an airplane!”
how can you come out with such a stupid comment on a day like this?
Don’t you get it?? Bush is a traitor to the American people and our way of life. The republican party has allways worked against the poor, taxes, government and they are all money grubbing elite. They hate the us and would like nothing better to see us go down in flames while the rich folk pocket their money.
The world is still not safe now after seven years, we still have the Christians who call themselves Conservatives and the Moslems who call themselves Alquada. These people, I mean both the christians and the moslems are are all extremist. I am a christian and I believe in the all the christian values but I also know that many people do not believe in what I believe in but I respect them in order to bring them to my side.
If the Christian extremists in America and the Islamic extremist do not think they we I think, by respecting other peoples’ views, the world would never be safe.
Remember, it is very difficult to score a goal from extreme right or left wings.
Eunice – Accra – Ghana
@ Steve
Why do you insists on me providing examples of it happening, it only needs to be proven that they have the right to do it, which can be done if you just read the act. I can not provide you with any example of it happening, again, because it does not have to be released to the public that it has happened, only adding to the fact the it is unfair and unconstitutional.
If you insist on some kind of media coverage, which seems to be the only you believe, here you go:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/26/politics/26patriot.html
You people make me chuckle
Ray Aid,
sure….how would clean their toilets then or make the things they use etc.
a wee bit to simplistic of a world view. if that is the case i suggest THEY should use nuclear weapons against us. much quicker, tha one high rise after the other.
i do hope you consider treatment, though.
@ Steve
obviously I went looking for that article in the middle of writing my last comment just to appease you.
As the world sadly commemorates the 7th anniversary after 9/11, the world is the more dangerous especially for countries allied to the US and i think it’ll be worse if McCain is elected.
Tony in Nairobi
@Jens
There are only two responses I can make to you that might be taken as encouragement and not as insult.
First, take some time and really investigate human history. Yes there has been war and destruction since the stone age and nealry all of it was committed in the name of some superstition or religion.
Second, in his famous pamphlet Common Sense, Thomas Paine wrote, “That to argue with someone who has renounced reason is like giving medicine to a dead man.”
Finally, just so that you know and are clear on this, all progress in human history has been made in spite of creed, in spite of religion. Religion has opposed every advance in engineering, science, and civilization.
James-USA
The word war on terror is not as it is said but it is war against islam.since 11sept attack bush launched a major offencive toafganistan,iraq and Somalia and failed. Now american citizens are using other travel documents rather than using american passports. So I can say that Americans are living in single room with fear and bush was behind this problem. Therefore stop war against islam. You can sleep snoring in peace.
Abdikadir som
Being an American, I find I fear my own government more than terrorists. The Bush Administration has created a culture of fear and secrecy, while stomping on time honored civil rights and assuming Presidential powers without checks and balances.
Debbie, Washington State
@ Steve
more to chew on..
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=16468
james,
just one for you to ponder, not all religion have been opposed to science etc……
plus as far as i am aware, the catholic church did very much support civilization when one considers art. the cistine chaple is a very elegant exapmple of this. well and let us not forget torture, they were very creative there as well, and in terms of technology and science the development of different war-machines was very much supported by variouse churches……..
@Steve
We have found common ground. Now I will ask you to do what you insited that someone earlier do. Back up your statement that Palestinians have killed more than the Jews. During the most recent conflict between Israel and Lebenon-which is an extension of the Ireali/Palestinian conflict the Jews killed more people by almost three to one. Even in the absolute most recent times in Israel when the Palestinians were lobbing rockets from Gaza, two or three Jews were killed several were injured, but more than twoo hundred Palestinians, including a number of children were outright slaughtered.
James-USA
Dear Debbie, One might ask theirself what would Bush Cheney Have to gain by 911? Try control ,wire tapping, war against islam ,oil crisis and the weakening of our economy all softening us up for the “coup de tah” Then they skip away and move to Dubai.
@Jens
Every religion looks back, every orthodox religion opposes scince and technology that advances human development and human civilization. You are absolutely correct that the Catholic Church and many denominations of protestant Christianity have been very prolific and ardent supporters of science and technology when it was done to inflict pain and suffering. Thank you for making my point.
As for art, if you will also take some time to look into art history I believe that works of art throughout human history that are considered to be truly timeless and beneficial to humankind are those that are not associated with or created by religious artists. You will discover that the Cistene Chapel and other so-called great “Christian” works of art do not rank very highly against the whole of human artistic expression.
James-USA
Safer from who or from what ? Muslims countries are the richest countries in the world with natural resources to exploit by the dividends lovers of this New World Order. Muslims countries have been exploited for their natural resources for centuries, the ordinary Muslims is poorer today than ten years ago. Must Muslims countries that are friendly to the West are monarchy and yet this New World Order talks about democracy. There are more proxy wars rage around the world by this New World Order than during WWII.
As a citizen of Western ,so call civilized world societies, I have more intrusion from my government than ever into my private life, I am been exploited more than ever but the utopians who have no respect for labor laws & I have been deceived by the elected in office.
They talk about freedom and yet westernized societies have created a police & spy state, they talk about prosperity & yet more & more citizens see the cost of goods & living rise as their power of purchase is in demises. They talk about peace and yet more & more children live in broken homes.
The United is States ‘dreams & way of life is not adapted & built to face XXI century’s problems. Capitalist ideologies are built to exploit human weakness. It does not foster cooperation but confrontation. The 9/11 is a tragedy but wars are not only fight with guns & bombs, wars can also be fight economically (embargos is an example of tools of war) , exploitation is another form of oppressions , the Twin Towels were the emblems of Capitalism & people working in those Twin Towels were involved in one form or another in exploitation & spreading utopians ideologies. They were part & tools of war of spreading utopians ideologies of capitalism. Africa comes in mind to exemplify this capitalist view of this New World Order. Africa is the richest continent in the world where oil, natural gas and all sort of minerals can be found, with the right environment to Africa could have thriving farming systems and a leader in the World Farming & yet the continent is plaque with poverty as dividend lovers exploit their natural resources.
Wake up New World Order Citizens, the capitalistic kings have not clothes and the true tyrants of this New World Order are the dividend lovers…
May God Bless this New World Order and its economics systems
In only God I trust
@ Steve
well..
@ Kenny In Florida
Steve keeps insisting that you provide examples of The USA Patriot Act violating peoples rights but the Patriot Act makes it illegal to provide any such information and so that info is not openly available to the public. And of course you would be violating the law by providing examples.
You can’t win this one.
sorry steve, my question really is why do you think your government came out with that lie?
Tom, you blame the republicans for the Patriot Act. Obama proudly voted for it. I provided a link from his own senate webpage.
@Kpelly
I guess they are parsing language. The FBI has said there have been terrorirst attacks in the US since 9/11. I guess to mak epeople feel safer, but anyone nwatching news knows these events have happened. I guess by terrorist attack, they want it to sound like some major, 9/11 type event, whereas terrorism could be sending someone a pipe bomb.
@ Tom D. Ford
Did you get a chance to read the articles that I was able to find? It was very surprising to me the media had that much info about, what I guess we can only say is “possible inquires.”
@ Steve
No, I blame the Conservative Republicans and their PNAC for the Patriot Act and for their masterful use of the state of fear in the US citizens and Congress to get it ramrodded through the legislative process without thorough reading and discussion and public debate about it. They did not even schedule or leave time for anyone to read it in full before they scheduled the vote on it. If I recall correctly I believe they only released it to the Congress the night before the vote on it.
It was a breathtakingly masterful use of propaganda and legislative thuggery to get that passed.
They even ran over moderate Republicans, they eat their own!
@ Kenny In Florida
No, I didn’t read your links. I have read other links, leaks, and talk about it though, and I am aware of ACLU challenges and other general objections to it.
Our Declaration of Independence lists the reasons the colonists revolted against England and some of those reasons are violated by the USA Patriot Act. But Our Declaration is not the law of our land, just an astounding document revered and held in the highest of esteem by Americans and people around the world who admire us for our ideals stated in it.. I believe that it ought to be grandfathered in as part of our Constitution.
@ Tom D Ford
Interesting, I have never really viewed it as defiance against our Deceleration of Independence, rather, just defiance in our original constitution. Interesting perspective, thank you. 🙂
@ Kenny In Florida
Over on the right is a list of our Founding Documents:
thomas.loc.gov/home/thomas.html
Here is The Great Charter of 1215, the root of our Habeas Corpus:
constitution.org/eng/magnacar.htm
Principles of The Nuremberg Tribunal 1950, note in particular Principle VI:
deoxy.org/wc/wc-nurem.htm
@ Tom D Ford
Habeas Corpus…whats that? LOL
@ Kenny In Florida
Just something I found thrown out in the trash. Looks pretty old and tattered and well used but still usable, maybe we ought to bring it back inside.
james,
whatever, you are obviously on a planet of your own.
i personaly rate picasso higher than michalangelo etc. all i am saying you come along with sweeping statements you cannot support and take mke counter argument as if you have just thought of it. clever way of argueing but not very intelligent, though.
Seven Years on ,is your world a safer place?
Yes,because there is more awareness of problems facing the world and a greater willingness to act against upon them.
vijay,
hello, where is your personal info. i gave you mine and you are still holding out…….funny you acuse me of hidding and you are the master of hidding. come on tell me
We are no safer at all. And the risk is because of the denial of what motivates the terrorists. This video shows exactly what I am talking about: 9/11 and Wrong Policy, what the 9/11 Commission Report did to us.
Pass this URL on to others:
http://tinyurl.com/911WrongPolicy
Bob in Queensland September 11, 2008 at 4:02 pm
@ Steve
Re: names for candidates
Well, since the Republicans are constantly plugging away at how Obama is Muslim and/or won’t fight terrorism, how about:
Obama bin Biden.
Hey, no fair, Bob! You plagiarised that from me. (But I can’t complain too much since I got it from someone else.)
viola September 11, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Any chess players out there?
Question: What piece on the board could represent suicide bombers?
I think the knight.
Nope, no way. Knights are noble. Suicide bombers are pawns.
viola September 11, 2008 at 5:12 pm
I took the liberty of reproducing your comment in full because it is one of the best I have seen on this bog:
@Roy
“Sadly the United States managed to squander much of the good will…after 9/11.”
One of my pet peeves is people who think like that. As if being attacked and killed can make people like you.
The more dead Americans there are, the better people will like Americans? As in, “The only good Indian is a dead Indian”?
Why not just have a lottery to pick people for sacrifice so the rest of the world will like you?
Who needs that kind of good will?
Canada
Viola, I love it when political correctness is punctured, as you have just done. I can almost hear the hiss of escaping air.
7 years on I believe the world is more dangerous now and the increased risk of terrorism all revolves around American’s failure to engage the rest of the world as equal partners in human race. Now is an opportunity for real change (not LIPSTICK change) if Americans can cleverly put their diferences aside and vote Obama to heal the wound or wars and bad foreign policies of the US that have compromised an otherwise safe world.
Aha, every blog and forum there’s one lurking to deflect, a Zionist to spread their sanctimonious BS around and put other points of views down like it’s nothing. They are always right and we are always wrong deal. Zionism is NOT Americanism – never will be.
We aren’t any safer in America, I don’t believe the official Bush story on 911 because everything just doesn’t add up. We aren’t safe from our own government, they can come anytime in the night and jerk us out of bed, take our property, everything we own.
The Power of Nightmares: Baby It’s Cold Outside
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3755686.stm
A safer world? I have no idea what you are talking about.
There is nothing new under the sun.
No, the world has never been a safe place.
What if the Bible were The Prince? Maybe we should bring them Harry Potter. Or deploy attack sluts.
I guess the question takes me back to 4th grade reading Bradbury’s All Summer and a Day or 11th grade reading Arthur Miller’s Crucible or 12th grade reading Shirley Jackson’s Lottery. Or to Hobbes who said “Life is brutish, nasty and short.”
Maybe we’ll end up like Planet of the Apes. If we annihlate ourselves will something less aggressive or greedy develop a larynx and a brain and create a peaceful world? No, we all fight for our own survival. Maybe a few would be self-sacrificing.
Nutrasweet could be used to make fermaldehyde. We drink detoiletized water with pharmaceuticals in it . There is a disease in India driving people out of the country. Families are ripped apart in Africa by madmen. The air we breathe may not be safe. There is human trafficking and sex slavery. Once in a while you hear about women stealing babies out of a pregnant woman’s body or people keeping dead people in the trunk of their car if not provoked to road rage.
If we realized that all suffering is our suffering ….maybe as a species we’d evolve and put an end to the suffering.
Greg Doyle September 11, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Why are you having Richard Pearl or anyone from the American Enterprise Institute on this program?
How about:
*Freedom of speech
*The need to present at least some opposition to the standard BBC point of view
*The fact that the programme is World Have Your Say.
Agreed; my post was too long. I’ll try again, selectively deleting: Hope that doing so is OK. Thank you! Please feel free to edit, and delete this first paragraph.
Hillarion of Sudbury September 12, 2008 at 8:43 am
We are not safer, seven years later. A number of people have given reasons — essentially that the Bush League, early on, squandered worldwide goodwill to an appalling degree. Its actions and policies have made our government despised and feared worldwide. Such widespread hatred does not make us more secure, particularly in the long run.
I keep forgetting whether it was Goebbels or Goering who was interviewed in jail during the Nuremberg trials, and stated that if you keep the populace constantly afraid, you can do anything you want with them. The Bush League has used this tactic quite well enough to demonstrate its validity.
I lost my fear of terrorist attack about four days after Sept. 11th, 2001; some would say I was being extremely unpatriotic in doing so. I am much more likely to be killed in a car accident than to die from a lightning strike, and, very likely, much more likely to die from a lightning strike than from a terrorist attack. I’m not totally without fear of terrorism, but it’s far in the background.
What I do fear, as Jerry Pournelle said some good time ago (very likely before 11 Sept.), is not what [the terrorists] do to us, it’s what they make us do to ourselves. Since the Big Event, what he said has proven to be true.
Learn about what Bruce Schneier says about security theater — a very useful concept, important to know about and recognize. It’s in evidence all the time at airline check-in, among other places. Imho, Bruce is wise about security; I almost never say that someone in current public life is wise.
As well, see what Prof. Juan Cole has to say about current events; his blog, Informed Comment, is a very worthy continuing document.
I don’t scare easily, but the prospect of a McCain –> Palin presidency is frightening. It’s exaggerating to say I’m terrified, thereby implying that the candidates are terrorists, but that thought was what made me find this blog, read all of it, and post an extended comment. (Many thanks, BBC!)
One whopping number of us fail to learn all about Sen. McCain (including his temper — would he, say, order Tehran to be nuked immediately in a fit of temper?).
When I hear of Americans choosing Presidents and V. P.s according to whether they are like ordinary folk, I do think they are stupid sheep who just can’t understand that our Presidency requires an awesome degree of extraordinary ability, knowledge, human decency, and wisdom. Such people apparently haven’t learned by the horrid example of the Bush presidency.
The prospect of a McCain–> Palin presidency makes this citizen feel one heck of a lot less secure.
Science, as it would be taught by Sarah Palin (exaggerated, for fun:)
Q.: Why does the water of the Oceans not fall off the edge of the Earth?
A: Because it is God’s will that it not do so.
Q: After the Flood, where did the water go?
A: God let most of it fall off the edge.
Hillarion of Sudbury
(A pseudonym; I’m somewhat paranoid, trusting the BBC to maintain privacy)
Robb September 11, 2008 at 7:08 pm
What I find incredible, and and rather sad, is the self deprecation that we in the West indulge ourselves in. I was just listening to American callers accusing their own country of being to blame for Islamic terrorism. This pathetic contrition only plays into the hands of those who wish to damage our Western cultures.
Well, exactly. I have no doubt that Islamic terrorists roll in helpless mirth on the ground of their terror training camps as they listen to BBC broadcasts of limp-wristed Western “liberals” bleating that terrorism is all the fault of the West.
The “human rights” crew need to wake up fast and stop furthering the Islamist ideal to dominate the entire planet and impose Islam on us all by oppressing or killing those who will not submit.
And what about “ordinary” Muslims? Throughout Europe no-go areas are being created for non-Muslims, including the police. And we keep hearing that ordinary Muslims are happy to live alongside non-Muslims in harmony and peace? Please.
Jens September 11, 2008 at 7:51 pm
“A terrorist is a bomber without an airplane!”
how can you come out with such a stupid comment on a day like this?
Thorough indoctrination leading to tunnel vision?
John LaGrua/New York September 11, 2008 at 7:34 pm,
If you insists on comparing “Isreal” to Nazi Germany, you should at least learn how to spell it. That way people might think you know what you are talking about.
Rose September 12, 2008 at 2:02 am
Aha, every blog and forum there’s one lurking to deflect, a Zionist to spread their sanctimonious BS around and put other points of views down like it’s nothing.
Well I guess you are the same Rose of the excessive links to push your anti-“Zionist” campaign. Now that you have proved that you can actually string a sentence or two together rather than just copying and pasting links to suspect websites, perhaps you would like to explain, without links, exactly what you have against Zionism.
Good heavens, NO. 2500+ people perished unbelievably in the twin towers on 9/11 before the world’s eyes.The chief architect of that plot (a previous ally of US!) is yet at large despite 1,000,000 civilians killed in Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11 in what is widely believed to be an illegal war, and now the ‘War on Terror’ is on against the ‘Taliban’ in Afghanistan where some 900 civilians are said to have perished. President Sarkozy says it is to help the downtrodden women of Afghanistan to gain their human rights or something to that effect. There have been terror attacks in various capitals of europe. And even the pockets are empty. How can anybody anywhere feel safe or secure? It has become a nightmare. It is unfortunate that the accused in Guantanamo are being tried in secret and not in public trials so the public can also know exactly what was behind 9/11 and who were the masterminds. Even Nuremburg Trial was held in public.
I will leave the UK this Sunday for Florida, and I will be in New York on Thursday. Although I am in the USA for business meetings, I will go and pay my respects to those innocent people who lost their lives on 9/11. I don’t think they, or their loved ones, would be so interested in apportioning blame, or making silly remarks, which appears to be the theme on this web site right now.
The war between Islam and the West is not new, its just viewed differently due to modern communications. Wars of the past, particularly between my country, UK, and Islam were reported to people here at home, but sometimes a year after the event. Its difficult to throw a petulant ‘PC’ fit, a year later, although some of us on this site seem to be adept at it.
Due to rampant political correctness that screams whenever the truth passes by, we have lost our understanding of what is happening in this conflict. This is a war of cultures, of religions, and of concepts and perceptions. It may well be that only a small percentage of the populations of both sides are engaged in it, but I believe that the vast populations behind them are supportive, and that is as it should be I suppose. In the West we are plagued with fifth-columnists, and the politically ignorant. Islam does not appear to suffer this problem. Maybe we should pay attention to that.
When will this war end? Possibly not in my lifetime. There can only be moments of peace because neither side is going to allow itself to be subsumed by an alien culture/religion/belief-set. At least it seems that way.
I am not a politically correct liberal. I support the war against Islam, because that is what it is no matter how tough it is to say it. We are at war, and have been for centuries. We can argue amongst ourselves about this and that, but the war will go on.
One question I would ask of you is this, would you prefer to live under Sharia law, in conditions such as are prevalent in Islamic cultures, or would you prefer to have the Western advantages for yourself and your loved ones?
Islamic terrorism is the current threat to Western civilisation. Terrorism is a tactic or stratagem used to advance a goal. It is the goal of Islamic terrorism that we must come to understand, and this logically requires an understanding of Islam (how many of our leaders have this understanding?)
Islam is less a personal faith than a political ideology that exists in a fundamental and permanent state of war with non-Islamic civilizations, cultures, and individuals. The Islamic holy texts outline a social, governmental, and economic system for all mankind. Those cultures and individuals who do not submit to Islamic governance exist in an ipso facto state of rebellion with Allah and must be forcibly brought into submission.
The unhappy fact is that Islam today is what it has been for fourteen centuries: violent, intolerant, and expansionary. It is folly to think that we, in the course of a few years or decades, are going to be able to change the basic world outlook of a foreign civilization. Islam’s violent nature must be accepted as given; only then will we be able to come up with appropriate policy responses that can improve our chances of survival.
Bush & the Government doesn’t seem to care what this New World Order citizens say about the elected elites, Pakistan is next the US is planning to send their military into a sovereign country regardless of international laws by using unilateral decisions making & yet they talk about democracy hmmm???
The New World Order at its best, go shopping , go & spend your dividends lovers returns as we fight for freedump & bring our peace (chaos) to nations. The US government has been highjack by the bourgoies, dividend lovers, in order to spread their capitalistic utopian ideologies of happinest in a box.
May God Bless this New World Order & its economic systems,
Hearing Richard Perle spewing his hate filled anti-Muslim rants reminded me of the late 1950s in the US with Joseph McCarthy ranting similarly but the fear-mongers theory of the 1950s was the Domino Theory, the theory that if Vietnam fell, all of Asia would fall like dominoes to “Communism”.
Fear-mongering is the favored propaganda tool of Conservative Republicans to keep their political base in line and easily herded into cowering exploitable compliance.
Brett: Ill tempered rudeness does not make you any more convincing .A typo does not invalidate my thesis that the Neo-cons in their zeal to support Zioniat genocide in Palestine are quite willing to undermine the democracy in the US by a vicious campaign of intimidation of Congress and unrelenting pressure on successive Adminstration.If you turn your attention to historical records of the demise of the fledgeling democracy ,Weimar Republic in 1920’s Germany rather than petty sniping you could benefit and see parallels .After Hitler came to power the left was given priority no return tickets to the camps and oblivion .Only fools walk where angels fear to tread ! Correction : ” to tread “
Tom D Ford September 12, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Hearing Richard Perle spewing his hate filled anti-Muslim rants….
That’s the point where I stopped taking your comment seriously. Perle was in fact even-tempered and restrained.
John LaGrua/New York September 12, 2008 at 9:49 pm,
I suppose you are responding to my comment posted yesterday at 10:11, though in your confusion you seem to think I’m Brett. My rudeness was not “ill-tempered” but quite cheerful. I was happy to point out that you don’t even know how to spell the object of your venom. I note that it’s curious that you made the same “typo” twice in one comment. In any event, my rudeness pales into insignificance compared to your venomous slur on an entire nation. Look up ‘genocide’ in a good dictionary.
I consider the phrase “putting out a fire with gasoline” appropriate.
No place on earth is safer than the other is either for this or that reason. However, for anyone born in a particular place and living there forever is the safest for him or her despite all possible obstacles of life and living.
Homo sapiens, the latest species to appear on earth, is the most misbehaved in the animal kingdom and seeking its own end in record time despite having the highest brain to body mass ratio! Even the Dinosaurs lasted 160 million years!
when a society govern by politician’s every thing is possible.
Our politicians have ability to contemenate the whole plannet.
Its too dark, though surrounding’s are claiming brightness.
If you suceed to openup your brain, lightup a candle of love,
Dont be shamed on past, plant a nursery of love for future,
Conveyance youself with principal’s and stood with them,
Dont always be avalable as hostage of media and politician’s,
Take your command in your own hands with dignity and pride,
Oh boy you look greate, greeted, thousistic and realistic man,
Make a wish of unimmegable depth of love to live like a man.
My most beloved place to live is Pakistan, my lovely homeland. Come what may I would love to live and let live and die too here.
The Isreal Lobby poses a threat to the US and the world so serious because itl acts to undermine democracy to further its’agenda Abraham Lincoln wisely foretold of such a threat when he warned that the nation had more to fear from within than from foreign elements.The 9/11 attack was a direct result of US financial and military support of Isreal in the destruction of the Palestinians The leader now on trial in Guantanamo has named it as his #1 motive for revenge.The people were lied to and Bush showed his cluelessness when he ask “Why do they hate us”Iraq was a neo con driven attempt to destroy a threat to Isreal since the WMD issue was a trumpted up lie.by Pearl Wolforwitz ,Aipac et al The US reputation has been damaged and its honor irrevocably stained by those who put their loyalty to a foreign state above their obligation to the US and its’ Constitution and the security of all Americans. the risk to peace have been raised enormously and a nuclear war could bring a frightened US people to seek an authoritarian leader Those who promote war almost never put themselves in harms way but seek power which often elludes them with dire results.