Talking Points 11th September

Thanks for all your suggestions and to Ahmad in Pakistan for moderating. If you’d like to host a page just let me know. One thing we’re thinking of talking about today is, seven years on from the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, is the world a safer place?

This has certainly got you talking on the blog. Michael in the US says
I feel that many Americans believe in a mythological sense of security and seem to think we can somehow make the myth a reality with a few tweaks to the outside world and then go back to living like nothing changed.

This poll in America suggests that fear of a terrorist attack is at its lowest point since 1997. So has the multi-billion dollar battle against terrorism made where you live more secure? Or is a perception of security equally important?

This article in Indonesia expresses worries that post-9/11 security has infringing too much on human rights to free speech and movement. Is this an acceptable price to pay for greater security?

Do you think this 9/11 anniversary is even significant? This article describes ‘9/11 fatigue’ among the survivors and here psychologists suggest that it’s not always helpful to remember. So when should we stop marking anniversaries of tragic events?


Carrying on from Karnie’s debate about grand-parents, a judge in America has ruled that these grandparents were too old at 50 to be the primary carers for their grandchildren. There is also a new term, “helicopter parents”, for parents who continue to be heavily involved in their children’s lives when they grow up – even negotiating salaries for them. So when should parenting responsibilities stop?

151 Responses to “Talking Points 11th September”

  1. 1 Jens
    September 10, 2008 at 19:03

    posted that one earlier, but i still cannot believe it, especially when i look at the clintiel…


  2. 3 Jens
    September 10, 2008 at 19:10

    hurray, the world did not come to an end as we know it, even with circulating protons, but uhhhh they have be circulating for a long time….

  3. 4 steve
    September 10, 2008 at 19:15

    7th Anniversary of 9/11

  4. 5 iamhammad
    September 10, 2008 at 19:27

    Hi guys:
    This is Ahmad Hammad from Lahore, Pakistan. I hosted the page back in June this year. It was really a great experience for me. Kate is very right in quoting that it was a “wonderful” experience altogether. I learnt a lot. I heard different voices, read diversified words and came across varietyful ideas. It was as if I were riding a merry-go-round that you ride and enjoy a frame-to-frame vision of the objective world around you.

    In Pakistan, we are having a new but democratic president. A democratic set-up has been established after a long dark night of tyrannical dictatorship. Though Pakistanis don’t like Zardar in general, yet they would accept him taking as the price paid for democracy.

    We could discuss Pakistani Democracy’s pitfalls… Or, Is there any other socio/political system better than Democracy?

    In France/Switzerland, a big band experiment has been carried out. We have read and heard the views of Stephen Hawking as well.

    What could be the possible reaction from around the world. How would this experiment be taken by the scientists/clericks/social scientist etc…

  5. 7 Jonathan
    September 10, 2008 at 19:39

    @Reaction to the CERN experiment

    Be sure to check out Google’s tribute to the subatomic physics experiment: the whimsical artwork adorning their logo on the google.com home page today.

  6. 8 iamhammad
    September 10, 2008 at 19:47

    It’s fascinating!
    Thanks Jonathan.

    I wonder if you could explain in your words to us as to what exactly the image at the google homepage is depicting about the CERN experiment.

    Thanks again!

  7. 9 Shirley
    September 10, 2008 at 19:52

    Ahmad, assalam-o-alaykum, Ramadan mubarak! Aap kaysay hain?
    (vid “Hello Around the world”)

    Democracy? (help, I’m a Wikipedia addict!)
    I really should read up in the various forms of government out there, but aside from my religious preferences, my vote so far is with Democracy. For me, the question would be what is democracy defined, and how best to implement democracy.

    But I suppose that I should perhaps hit some ecyclopedia articles about the various forms of government? Be back after Wikipedia.

  8. 10 Shirley
    September 10, 2008 at 19:55

    Jonathan (September 10, 2008 at 7:39 pm) – What, no mini black hole drawing? :s

  9. September 10, 2008 at 19:57

    8 comments and Dennis hasn’t posted yet?
    Where is he? lol

    @ Jonathan and Google:
    I saw it this morning and giggled to myself… you know in a nervous end-of-the-world sort of way 😉 hahaha


  10. 12 Dennis @ OCC
    September 10, 2008 at 20:05

    @ Brett:
    Class until 2.55pm eastern…Just got out….Here I AM…

    Syracuse, New York

  11. 13 iamhammad
    September 10, 2008 at 20:10

    So, is it about the Big Crunch, Dennis?

  12. 14 iamhammad
    September 10, 2008 at 20:20

    Wa’alaikum Asslam dear. (Aap ko bhe Ramadhan ki khushyaan mubarak hon)

    Honestly, It was a pleasant surprise to read Urdu at the BBC WHYS. 🙂

    As far as Democracy as a system is concerned, you are right. There’s no certain form around the world which could be called as true democracy.
    Every democratic system needs improvements to be called as a Democracy. However, what we could do is to be nearer to the spirit of Democracy and that is, to run the state affairs with the consent of the citizens. Be it the presidential or the parliamentary system of government, democracy should be there.

    I count the Caliphate as a democracy too, for it used to know about the consent of the people around and then decide…

    Wikipedia is, however, not that authentic and dependable, they say. 🙂
    You should consult Encyclo Britainnica or any other authentic one of your choice…

  13. 15 Dennis @ OCC
    September 10, 2008 at 20:34

    Yes! Ahmed…it is a big crunch, right now i am in my res hall…..


  14. 16 Robert
    September 10, 2008 at 20:35

    The various systems we call democracy are probably the most efficient and fair way of governing countries. Sure all systems in the US and Europe have their problems but nobody has come up with a country wide system that is perfect.

    True democracy however is the worst form of government we could possible have, being little more than mob rule.

  15. 17 Lauren
    September 10, 2008 at 20:40

    Forget about the Big Crunch– what about the Big Freeze? Take THAT Global Warming!

    @ jens
    Forget diet and exercise- just shop @ Wal-Mart! 😉

  16. 18 Dennis @ OCC
    September 10, 2008 at 20:43

    Here is a special gift for all of you…since i was not around for the first portion of the TP….

    And this what i learned in History Western Civilization II class with Dr. McLain….
    this is the website address:


  17. 19 Jens
    September 10, 2008 at 20:46

    well churchill said it very aptly.

    “if you want to have a case against democracy, take to the average voter for 5 min”

  18. 20 selena in Canada
    September 10, 2008 at 20:49

    @ Robert

    I ask a serious question:

    What is wrong with the mob?

  19. September 10, 2008 at 20:56

    To infinity and beyond: A sparkling survival story

    “After a rip current swept the boy and his father out to sea Saturday, darkness fell, and the sound of rescue helicopters and boats grew faint until they were nonexistent.”

  20. 22 Katharina in Ghent
    September 10, 2008 at 20:57

    @ Jens / Wal Mart diet:

    I don’t know if we want to go down the obesity – breastfeeding lane again, but last weeks discussion got me thinking (it does happen, really 😉 ) about whether there might be a link between the rise in obesity over the last 30 – 40 years and breastfeeding, and it turns out that there is:

    Click to access bf_paper1.pdf

    Many mothers now feed their babies formula instead of breast milk, and these babies initially grow a bit faster and gain weight faster, but I believe that it builds the wrong foundation for the bodies for later life and that’s why many bottle-fed people have later such a real struggle to keep their weight down. This may also explain why obesity is a somewhat smaller problem in Europe than in the US, because in Europe generally mothers can stay at home longer after giving birth and may therefore be more likely to breastfeed than mothers who have to return to work five weeks after birth.

    And if we now put into consideration that formula got popular in the sixties, if I’m not completely mistaken, than this does make perfect sense to me and exercise / eating right can only do so much to keep you in shape.

  21. 23 Lauren
    September 10, 2008 at 20:59

    @ Robert

    Are you talking about pure democracy with no representatives involved?

  22. 24 Dennis @ OCC
    September 10, 2008 at 21:02


    this is a great story….

  23. 25 steve
    September 10, 2008 at 21:03

    @ Katharina

    For 99% of people, eating right and exercise makes all of the difference. Thermodynamics state that if you burn more calories than you take in, you lose weight.

  24. 26 Julie P
    September 10, 2008 at 21:11

    Man eats 23,000 in 36 years! That’s two a day. 😦


  25. 27 Jens
    September 10, 2008 at 21:16


    it is a simple balance of input versus output. you have a basal consumtion of energy you use just lying in bed. you then have a level of energy you use moving around thinking etc. tht is your specific daily calorie intake to stay the same weight, wnything mor you gain, anything less you lose. i know it from myself. i came to america and gained 30 kilograms, by just eating way too large portions, plus getting lazy consuming more processed food, because y job took over. now i ditched all crap and only it “natural” foods (unprocessed and not fortified and my weight is dropping off like crazy., plus i feel much better.

    the baby formulas are probably a tiny tiny part responsible, by the way i support breast feeding over processed crap. i think what is worse is that babys are kept quite qith bottles of juice and sugary crap. the problem we are all falling slaves to stress, but we could so easily escape it. too me cooking high quality food at the end of a days work and gym is so relaxing. i talk to my wife, help her with home work etc without TV. just think how much more one could be productive without TV. we waste hours on that box or playing computer games and writing on blogs. take that time and cook with your loved ones.

    food is like sex, it’s better when it’s done slowly and with feeling. nothing too wrong with the occasional $1 burger but it is hardly nutriouse and fullfilling.

  26. 28 Robert
    September 10, 2008 at 21:21


    Yep, pure democracy, no representatives, no voting blocks or parties, everybody votes on every issue.

    Nice in principle I agree, and possible even able to function in small groups, say 100, where everbody is interested in the outcomes, but the full scale reality would be a nightmare to organize to start with, before you even have to deal with the inconsistent laws that such a system would quickly generate (think at least 50% of people would want lower taxes, and at least 50% more spending, who is right as both have been democratically voted on??). Too many problems for work in a real world.

  27. 29 Jens
    September 10, 2008 at 21:30


    it is a bit like exercise, i have to “hike and jump” around all the fat people in their electric shopping carts. i am actually planing to release a video game entitle ‘your shopping experience at wal-mart”. trust me iit’s like an arcade game and the crap they sell there is unbelievable.

    in four years i will be running for senate on the platform of defeating crap fortified food.

  28. 30 Shirley
    September 10, 2008 at 21:30

    Communism was mentioned as a form of government. To date, I had thought of it mostly as an economic system. Does this mean that socialism can be a form of government? Or is it only an economic system?

    Some questions that I want to look into:
    How does federalism work in a democracy? Does it strengthen democratic values or weaken them?

  29. 31 Jens
    September 10, 2008 at 21:34


    what is the flavor, dammit

  30. 32 iamhammad
    September 10, 2008 at 21:40

    Well, to me, Federations and Confederations get strengthened if democracy is exercised with its true spirit.

  31. 33 iamhammad
    September 10, 2008 at 21:42

    Shirley: May I know your name please?

  32. 34 Jens
    September 10, 2008 at 21:45


    look at switzerland democracy works pretty well there and it is a confederation. in fact the reality that each canton counts as an individual entity strengthens the federation. at least i think so, since you maye have the majority of population, but for certain changes you also need the majority of cantons. that way small cantons cannot be bullied by cantons with large populations.

  33. 35 Jens
    September 10, 2008 at 21:47

    @ julie p

    did you read my statment about food in the other blog????? makes me chuckle a little bit, though

  34. 36 Robert
    September 10, 2008 at 21:48


    Depends how the federal system is set up. The US was a federal system between the states. The voting power of each state (though either senators or electoral college votes etc) is nearly always roughly in proportion with the population of each state. This system seems to work in general.

    The federal side of Europe is a bit of a mess though. The decisions sometimes are equal shared between all member states regardless of the size of that country . Others are based on size of the countries involved and others by the size of the economy. All the confusion leads to a lack of respect for what the EU can do.

    So there is nothing fundamentally for or against federal systems and democracy working together, it all depends on how good the constitution is at defining how the different parts work together. The US have nearly got it right the EU has a long way to go.

  35. 37 Lauren
    September 10, 2008 at 21:53

    @ robert

    totally agree with you on the pure democracy point– it would be mob rule.

  36. 38 Thea Winter - Indianapolis IN, USA
    September 10, 2008 at 21:57

    7 years after 911.
    Question: Is the world any safer? Will the current politicians or governments make it better? Is it up to us the ordinary people?

  37. 39 Lauren
    September 10, 2008 at 21:57


    “hike and jump” hum? I think I’ll stick to my original routine- avoid Wal-Mart @ all costs. Every time I walk by one, I feel like I lose a piece of my soul 🙂

  38. 40 Shirley
    September 10, 2008 at 22:01

    Robert, why do you feel that political parties are a deviation from from pure democracy?

    Also, wouldn’t it be possible to present choices to the voters that are exclusive f each other so that whichever choice gains the most votes takes effect while the others fall to the wayside?

    In a pure democracy, do you think that legislation is formed by a legislative branch that represents the people, or through grassroots debate and voting?

  39. 41 Julie P
    September 10, 2008 at 22:04


    I didn’t see your comment about food in the other blog, but I was following what was being written in this one. I thought the article fit.

  40. 42 Robert
    September 10, 2008 at 22:05


    The problem with the mob is that the mob is unable to take a step back and think through complex issues. It follows it’s gut reactions too quickly and then later complains about the consequences of its actions. Look at modern politics with its focus on headline grabbing policies.

    Over here we are bouncing from one policy to another. Last year Gorden Brown stopped the 10p tax rate because it made the tax system complex, fair enough, a reasonable claim. Then when it came into effect the papers managed to first force Alistair Darling to start rethinking the change, and then within 2 weeks emergency measures costing billions were brought in to temporarily solve the PR problem for this year. No thought as to what they’ll do next year given. Absolute mess. Then there is the stamp duty holiday, again legislation for the mob that is not thought out and will cost keep costing us taxpayers.

  41. 43 iamhammad
    September 10, 2008 at 22:06

    Well, I’d dare to differ. What we have exercised in Pakistan during the election 2002 could be a good example of not calling democracy a mob’s rule.

    What we did in Pakistan was a merit put to be qualified for the candidates contesting the elections. This is still debatable, depending upon the social structure of the state, as to what kind of merit/qualification must be put forth to the candidates.

    For example, there could be an entry test for the candidates to enter the parliament in order to represent the mob. Be mob the illiterate or literate, this check will balance the effect. See, if the nation is illiterate, they are destined to be ruled by the illiterate, this is what democracy demands.

    I believe in educating the people and educating what Rossue called for. I mean, educate the people to become good citizens. Only then, they can serve better and of course, only then they would choose better candidates to represent themselves in the Legislating house. And this is how, the above mentioned dark aspect of democracy could be either eliminated or brightened a bit….

  42. 44 Robert
    September 10, 2008 at 22:20


    I pure\true democracy is one where every single voter votes on every single issue. Although I might support party A on 90% of the issues facing my country, my vote on the other 10% is not represented by party A and so my voice on those issues is not heard. Therefore a representative system and party politics is a deviation of the true democracy model (although a good working compromise).

  43. 45 Shirley
    September 10, 2008 at 22:29

    Wouldn’t anarchy be something like the ultimate mob rule? Perhaps decisions would be made purely at the individual and local level? They say that Spain was anarchistic when Franco declared war on the Spanish government. I wonder, though, whether it might have been considered a series of localised socialist governments, because trade unions were the mobilising force behind resistance to Franco?

    Jens, what kinds of decisions are made using a proportional representation; and what kinds are made with a majority of cantons? For which issues does it make sense to use proprtional representation; and for which ones would it be better to use a majority of cantons?

  44. 46 Robert
    September 10, 2008 at 22:38


    Anarchy is not ultimate mob rule. Anarchy is everybody doing what they like and whoever is strongest or richest individual will win. In a Pure/True democracy the largest gang (i.e. mob) will win.

  45. September 10, 2008 at 22:46

    ….. , er I think democracy is the best we got but needs refining, as it is flawed, cheap to run but flawed. First off you need to be talented a genius and born leader, rich, influencial, the best communicator, able to influence the media machine, however, on a bad day you may find yourself controling the media, and country. The problem is the regular man or woman, is not mr leader, so where is the democracy, there isn’t, it only looks like there is democracy, what we have in england is still a ruling class, that most people I mean regular people, pay little attention to. An alternative is to start from factors of 10 adults and work your way up to your leader etc. There should not be leaders already in situ, successful candidates then vote for a leader out of a local 10 candidates, who in turn vote for a leader out of another group of 10 candidates, this continues until you end up with a leader for england and wales, not too sure if we can include wales. There is the problem of funding and well competance to do the job, but what I’m saying is, you are essentially starting from a basis of voting, nominating, people you know, the rounds could be monthly, so 10 x 10 ( month two you have a leader out of 100 adults ) times 10 again you have a leader out of 1000 adults, eventually by month 8 you have leader out of 100 million. Amazing what you think of when running on dole money for 8 years. Keep the faith bloggers 🙂

  46. 48 Dennis @ OCC
    September 10, 2008 at 23:05

    @ Brett:

    My dear friend! I had HIST WEST CIV II—on Monday and Wednesday, when we go LIVE here……

    That class doesn’t get out until 2.55pm eastern….

    and Tuesday and Thursday, i have Pre-Algebra with Mr. Carter from 2.00 to 3.20pm eastern standard time…

    and that is not including the time it takes me to walk from the building to the res. hall on the other side of the campus…


  47. 49 Shirley
    September 10, 2008 at 23:06

    36 Robert September 10, 2008 at 9:48 pm
    The voting power of each [U.S.] state (though either senators or electoral college votes etc) is nearly always roughly in proportion with the population of each state. This system seems to work in general.

    Actually, I do not agree with the electoral college system. I think that it is a useless vaestige of an elitest form of government like an aristochracy or an oligarchy. I feel that the way that the votes are compartmentalised into the states removes the representational value of the vote: simple majorities usually throw all of the state’s electoral college votes in one direction, which results in an unrepresentational distribution of the votes. I really think that we should count votes on a one-man, one-vote basis. In terms of voting for the President, I don’t think that we should bother boxing votes by State, either. I would really like to see the popular vote being used for the Presidential elections.

    What distinguishes the U.S. from an oligarchy, anyway? Doesn’t it seem as if only a certain few elite run the country?

  48. 50 Shirley
    September 10, 2008 at 23:07

    42 Robert September 10, 2008 at 10:05 pm
    mob rule: Look at modern politics with its focus on headline grabbing policies.

    Wouldn’t that more more a result of the role that the media plays in promoting a sensationalist view of politics? Their bottom line is the effort to sell a product – they are so tied to the entertainment industry that they market the news in the same way that they market their entertainment. Sensationalism sells, so they make it look juicy in order to sell it all to the public.

    44 Robert September 10, 2008 at 10:20 pm
    Although I might support party A on 90% of the issues facing my country, my vote on the other 10% is not represented by party A

    I remeber having posted something to this effect either yesterday or the day before. It is interesting to see that I am not alone in this thinking.

  49. 51 jamily5
    September 10, 2008 at 23:10

    Jens, you said it best in your 9:16 post.

    So, Ahmed, you are pleased with the proceedings in Pakistan and have a good hope that things are to get better soon???

  50. 52 Count Iblis
    September 10, 2008 at 23:11

    About obesity, there is now more evidence pointing to lack of sleep as the cause. I think I wrote about this some time ago here. It was known for a long time that people who suffer from sleep disorders have larger body weight than average. But now there is more direct evidence that shows that people who sleep less on average weigh more.

    The precise mechanism is not well understood. It is presumably all regulated by hormones which we may not even have been identified. But you can also look at the human body as a solution to a problem obtained by natural selection. So, whatever the mechanism is, it implements some algorithm on weight regulation.

    I think we can understand how this algorithm works without knowing how it is implemented, simply by considering the problem of weight regulation in an organism whose calory intake fluctuates, who needs to have energy reserves and yet should not fluctuate too much in weight.

    Suppose that someone eats 2500 kcal per day and has a constant body weight. If that person were to eat 100 Kcal per day less and keeps his activities exactly the same, then will he continue to lose weight and starve to death? Of course not! His metabolic rate will simply adjust to his new diet. He’ll only lose some fixed amount of weight, there is no long term downward trend in his weight. The same is true if he were to eat 100 Kcal per day more. He’ll gain a bit of weight, but then the weight should stabilize.

    Without such feedback mechanisms regulating the metabolic rate, animals in the wild would not last long. But changing the metabolic rate from day to day during daytime would make you feel different each day. So, it seems logical to assume that the body makes the metabolic rate during sleep dependent on the difference between energy intake and energy use during the day. Changing the metabolic rate during sleep has less impact on your daytime functioning.

    Now, if you don’t sleep enough, this fine tuning mechanism won’t work well and your weight would tend to fluctuate. But, since it would be a bad idea for a biological system to allow for large downward fluctuations of the weight, lack of sleep should trigger your overall metabolic rate to go down a bit so that the system will be biased in favor of weight gain.

  51. 53 Jens
    September 10, 2008 at 23:17


    well some are so voluptiouse you have to hike around them.

    seriously i avoid that place as much as i can, since 995 of the stuff is cheap crap produced in china, which is real good for our economy.

    the food they sell is not cheap at all. in fact my source of products is mainly the internet or the local dillards, maybe eddie bauer (since they both are one of the few that carry XL long). in any case i try to buy american as much as i can and if not then european. for my food i stay local with farmers markets or organic shops like sunflower market etc.

  52. 54 iamhammad
    September 10, 2008 at 23:21

    @ J Amily:

    Yeah, I’m literally happy that at last our country is back on the track of democracy. It’s true that most of the people never wanted Asif Ali Zardari to become the president of Pakistan but we had no other choice.

    See, we have accepted him and taken him as an outcome of the deterministic result of the maths of democracy.

    We think that we are paying the price of democracy by having a president like Zardari upon us.

    We know that after the night, it takes a considerable amount of time before the sun rises. After the night ends and before the sun rises, there are too many phases a day passes through. And the day of democracy in Pakistan is passing through the very phases….

    We are waiting for the moment when the sun of pure democracy will rise. And that’s not far away now….

    Therefore, I must say, Yes, I have a reason to smile because the starless night of dictatorship is finally over………

  53. September 10, 2008 at 23:44

    Please discuss the fact that the 9/11 Commission did not do its job. This video shows exactly what I am talking about: 9/11 and Wrong Policy, what the 9/11 Commission Report did to us. http://tinyurl.com/911WrongPolicy

    In their book, “Without Precedent” top 9/11 Commission admit to the game the played. Commissioners REJECTED mentioning the Israeli-Palestinian dispute. And you can see this this video the testimony they excluded from the 9/11 Report.

  54. 56 Shirley
    September 10, 2008 at 23:45

    47 Michael Barnett September 10, 2008 at 10:46 pm
    you need to be talented a genius and born leader, rich, influencial, the best communicator, able to influence the media machine

    Are you ttying to say that this is what has become the reality, or that this is a reflection of an ideal democracy? It sounds like a slppery slope into elitest forms of government.

  55. 57 Robert
    September 10, 2008 at 23:47


    Electoral colleges
    I know that it affects some close elections (like 2000) and is an oddity which should be sorted but I think there are a few more pressing issues within our democratic systems (like spin) which have more powerful effects and need to be sorted.

    Media Basis
    The problem with democracy is that the media are an integral party of the system. They feed information to the electorate from the parties and from the electorate to the parties. It is a proverbial chicken and egg situation sometime the media influence the politics, sometimes the politicians influences the media, there are just different cogs of the same machine.

    Political Elites
    First, I agree that there is a ruling class that is too restricted. Second though I think there should be a slight elite as to those who should be allowed to govern. This comes from the fact that we deserve to have those representing us to be the best of what ever field they chose to be (whether that is a lawyer or a trade union leader makes no difference). The representative should not be a below average joe plucked off the street corner because he had nothing better to do. This will slightly restrict the pool of candidate I know and create an elite of the able or competent. But again I again the current elitism has gone too far and is more of and old boys club than anything else.

  56. 58 Jens
    September 10, 2008 at 23:49

    count iblis,

    yeah lack of sleep, genetics blablablabla. the simplest diet of all AND the only way of loosing weight is to put less calories in your mouth than you burn. everything else is just humbug.

    you know there is also the mantr that too much sleep makes for fat people, since they do not move enough.

    of course hormones do play an important role, but all of that is over-written by the amount of energy you take-up versus the amount of energy you use. it makes no sense to fool once self about this. write a food diary and record everything you eat and wou will be surprised where calories do come from. a pint of beer is more that 10% of your calorie allowance……a can of coke even worse etc

  57. 59 Jennifer
    September 10, 2008 at 23:51

    @ Thea

    Sept. 11th

    The world isn’t any safer. I think we are at a greater risk for further attacks than before especially bioterrorism. People should learn what do to in those situations for their own safety. Politicians and governments should do their part but like with hurricane Katrina, they learn right along with the rest what is needed and what works and what doesn’t.

  58. 60 selena in Canada
    September 10, 2008 at 23:51


    Well said!

  59. 61 Jens
    September 10, 2008 at 23:54


    thank you

  60. September 11, 2008 at 00:10

    Dear Tom,
    I think 9 / 11 was the result of a big object attracting smaller objects, the sheer size and power of the US attracts others including the psycho’s who carried out 9 / 11. Empires come and go, When the US is no longer no 1, we should see a reduction in attracted terrorism. Do I think the US should disarm so it is no longer no 1, mmmmm well, ideally yes, however because of the Unknown, we have to accept, the US could be attacked if it did so, therefore the US will remain no 1, until another non US economic genius comes along, this could take up to 10 generations, maybe more. K T F.

  61. 63 Ahmad Hammad
    September 11, 2008 at 00:10

    The Americans, after a suspicious terrorists’ attack on the 9/11 in which about 3000 people were killed, are still planning to deploy the military to kill as many innocent people as they could until they capture the oil resources of Afghanistan, Balochistan and Iran.

    The war on terror begun on the 9/11 was in fact a well-thought-over war on oil, time has proved. And the merciless oil merchants have killed about 20 times the people killed in a suspicious terrorists’ attack at the WTC.

    It’s true that the world is not safer. Along with it, it is also true that the world is not safer because the Americans and the Israelities don’t want to make it safer.

    In the name of Islamic Militancy, they are fighting with their own previous allies. It may seem to be ridiculous at the moment but the time will prove that it’s not the Islamic militancy that is making the world unsafe. It is the greed for oil that has made the world a hell….

  62. 64 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 00:15

    @ ahmad

    There is oil in afghanistan and the US is out to seek to deliberately kill as many civilians as possible? I guess they are really bad at it!

  63. 65 Shirley
    September 11, 2008 at 00:23

    58 Jens September 10, 2008 at 11:49 pm
    yeah lack of sleep, genetics blablablabla. the simplest diet of all AND the only way of loosing weight is to put less calories in your mouth than you burn. everything else is just humbug.

    Jens, in most cases, it is the amount of activity that needs to be tweaked. We humans do need to change what we eat. However, if one eats normal (not processed) food, it does take a bit more than the enriched processed stuff to take in the necessary nutrients, including those not listed in those nutrition guides on our cereals. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with that amount of food; but I do think that we humans in general simply are not as active as we should be to burn off the calories that said food provides.

    There is some merit in the argument that lack of sleep can lead to bad eating habits. I have heard that men who do not get enough sleep gravitate towards foods that have more of the simple carbohydrates; and that, in general, people who do not get enough sleep gain weight more than average. When one does not have enough sleep at night, one sometimes feels that eating more of that unhealthy stuff boots the immediate energy levels. Healthy sleep – the right amount, the right quality, the right time – is very important in maintaining a healthy lifestyle.

  64. 66 iamhammad
    September 11, 2008 at 00:23

    Your Guess is quite PERFECT 🙂
    See, how their intelligence is working in Waziristan, Damma Dola, Mohmand and Angoor Adda. Why are they doing so?
    Can’t any sane person infer some meaningful from the fact that with the state-of-the-art technology, the US is still failed to find where Osama is. And the story is 7 years old now. People in the US must be thinking what kind of a super-man Osma is, that the US even after using its poweful technology is failed to find him.
    Come on! This all is ridiculous…

  65. 68 Kelsie in Houston
    September 11, 2008 at 00:35

    With regards to the question of “are we safer?” the answer is surely, like 9/11, complicated: on the one hand, proponents of the current administration’s policies can point to a lack of major terrorist events (on our own soil) since 9/11; detractors will argue that this lack is perhaps not due to the White House’s actions so much as a seeming lack of cohesion among the terror cells. Also, London and Madrid serve as vivid reminders that terrorism continued well after September 11th…if ours is a global “war on terror,” the attacks in these two cities–although smaller in scope–are surely just as important to the administration’s overall goals.

    “Safety” has also come at a certain cost in civil liberties, arguably some of the very things that set us apart from those the “war on terror” is combating. That in itself may represent a very different threat to safety in the wake of 9/11…

  66. 69 Kelsie in Houston
    September 11, 2008 at 00:36

    Whoops! I like Sen. Bill Nelson’s (D-FL) comment–appropriate word choice…

  67. 70 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 11, 2008 at 00:42

    @Google artwork
    Classy!!! I love the google banner designs 😉

    You hit the nail with the “food and sex” remark, lol. I was drinking crappy Coke, and felt guilty after reading the posts related to diet. The Coke now is down the drain and I drank insted a glass of water… thanks guys, I really need to stop eating and drinking junk while working.

    Democracy is an utopia. We can only wish to achieve it.

  68. 71 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 11, 2008 at 00:42

    Now, I have a question for you…

    First the background….
    I was offered a better job. I accepted it and I am going trough the process of hiring (medical tests, psycological tests, legal requirements, etc.). Probably I´ll be signing the contract in two weeks and starting on October. I have to quit my current job. I haven´t told my boss (well… he out of the country, so I cannot do it by phone). I was planning to tell him in person on Friday, but now I decided to wait until the 19th. The reasoning behind all of this is because he will be very busy on Friday and frankly I want to have everything “tied” in the other job before quiting here. I am happy with the opportunity that it is handed to me, but I know my boss won´t take my decision with a smile. It will be a BIG step for me (profesionally speaking) since I have to fight my inner conscience telling me “do not dissapoint the father figure”…. You can figure that I was raised in a very patriarchal environment, so for me it is hard to say NO to men (specially older men). I learned to do it, but still I feel a little bit guilty.

    My question (finally) is… how can I stop the “guilty feeling”? I hate it… I want to overcome it, but still I am feeling it.

    Maybe this is question for a shrink, but if someone wants to give his/her opinion/advice, I will be very grateful 😉

  69. 72 iamhammad
    September 11, 2008 at 00:49

    Luz Ma:
    You’ve phrased and drafted your case very well. I think Steve and Shirley would be interested to talk about it.
    Others are also welcome…

  70. 73 Count Iblis
    September 11, 2008 at 00:50

    Jens, of course, if you eat way too much you will gain weight. And if you don’t get any exercise then that’s no good either. But sleep is important too and sleep is not valued a lot in modern society. I’ve read that everyone needs at least 8 hours of sleep per day, including the people who say that 6 hours is enough for them.

    If you get enough exercise (the recommended amount is running for half an hour every day), then you won’t have much difficulties sleeping 8 hours. A century ago people used to sleep 9 hours per day and obese people were rare.

    I think that if you exercise enough and sleep enough, your body can keep your weight constant more easily.

  71. 74 selena in Canada
    September 11, 2008 at 00:51


    Congratulations on the new job!

    I can’t offer advice on how not to feel guilty. However, I can say that for me guilt is a selfish emotion.

    If I feel guilty, I know that it is just me feeling that way. Others will move on without me.

    So, I try to get my head around the fact that no one is indispensable. It usually works.

  72. September 11, 2008 at 00:56

    Shirley September 10, 2008 at 11:45 pm
    Dear shirley, I couldn’t have put it better myself, I believe england has gone down this slippery ” democratic ” slope and what we appear to have well in the UK is a govening elite, which does work, but needs a top to bottom over haul. If I were plied with £100 K a year and a dozen or so red hot advisors, I might come up with a better model, but in the last local elections, I had a choice of voting for 4 or so parties with already nominated leaders, this is flawed, we should start from scratch no one in situ as leader for the next term. and in multiples of say 10 essentially 10 neighbours, un related, vote for a leadership candidate, 10 successful candidates in turn vote for one candidate in another round say in a months time. In 8 months / 8 rounds you would have identified a leader that would have involved a voting structure of 100 million people, in theory. However in reality our voting system doesn’t appear to change. K T F.

  73. September 11, 2008 at 00:58

    Luz Ma from Mexico~


    Capitalism often makes everyone except the lowest workers feel disloyal sometimes.

    Thank your old boss. Even praise him for the things you have learned on the job. And if it is reasonable for you, then suggest that you would like to stay in touch for mentoring, or friendship.

  74. September 11, 2008 at 01:16

    @ Luz,
    Congratulations on your new job.
    Your choice must be a personal decision, not based on what your current boss will think of it. You’re employed not owned by him. As long as the working contract doesn’t stipulate how long you should be employed by him, you’re free to choose what’s fit for you.

    Follow your instinct and don’t leave patriarchal notions overwhelm you.

    What also matters to your friends on the blog is that you can still find time to keep in touch with the blog. It’s hard to lose friends as you know.

  75. 78 Uzra Casuri- Balouch
    September 11, 2008 at 01:28

    The multi billion dollar war is a complete failure and so will the Afghan military surge be.
    The Bush presidency is in its death throes and the Republican party is looking to give its departing Commander in chief a befitting legacy of a trophy war by launching a new offensive in Pakistan.
    Let me categorically state : This will fail, it is not only going to waste huge amounts of money and resources for all concerned but there will a large number of casualties both military and civilian. Pakistan is not like Afghanistan where the social fabric of the society had disintegrated by ten years of war and neither is it like Iraq where Saddam was in charge. The new puppet president who has been elected with the the tacit support of the Americans enjoys no moral authority and yet the Americans complain of Gordon Brown endorsing Obama when they themselves endlessly interfere in the internal politics of all middle eastern and asian countries but who can blame them when the Pakistani politicos are willing to sell their souls to stay in power and and a chance to get their “swiss frozen dollars” back.
    The present tactics employed by the Bush Administration, for there seems to be no long term strategy WILL FAIL AND WILL MAKE THE WORLD LESS SECURE.
    The conservative American think tank the Rand Corporation has said that in the last 40 years only 4% anti – terrorism campaigns have been won by military action the rest were all solved by intelligence gathering, policing and negotiations.
    Seven years on , we know the war on terror has been a failure, the American government must learn from its mistakes and change its policy before its too late and citizens in the West must urge their Governments not to support the killing of innocents and also not support dictators and corrupt puppet politicians. Western military raised on video games and instant gratification must learn about ground combat and get good old fahioned commando training- for the ultimate duty of the soldier is saving innocent lives at all costs and not shooting from thousands of meters in the sky and lumping everyone who dies into the category of collateral damage.
    This only creates more militants out of moderates.
    Please let true leaders emerge and not stooges bent on destroying our country.
    To me the safety of America where all my extended family lives is as important as Pakistans. It makes my heart cry at whats happening in Pakistan – a land of unadultered beauty which was renouned for its legendary hospitality.

  76. 79 Roberto
    September 11, 2008 at 01:37

    RE “”In their book, “Without Precedent” top 9/11 Commission admit to the game the played. Commissioners REJECTED mentioning the Israeli-Palestinian dispute. “”

    ——— 9/11 commish also rejected mentioning the dispute between Georgia and Russia, Turkey and Kurds/Armenians, India/Pakistan, Rep of China and People’s Rep of China and millions of disputes between husbands and wives, and on ad finitum.

  77. 80 Roberto
    September 11, 2008 at 01:58

    a pint of beer is more that 10% of your calorie allowance

    ———– Ain’t the beer. Modern culture promotes obesity and pychological problems.

    Modern culture is not healthy, not even the exercise/health food proponents. I’ve seen people who have no business running because of poor biomechanics destroy their joints, the modern phenomena of PEDs, risky alternative sports, and the sickly looking people at the local health stores not to mention the plethora of much maligned overweight folks.

    Urban moderns have lost contact with working the land in nature’s elements, thus losing the abiltiy to regulate themselves, but marketers know how to market suspect supplements from China and other 3rd world countries that may contain lead, arsenic, and heavy metals and foods containing a witch’s brew of chemical compounds.

    It’s modern drugs and surgery that have extended lifespans, not modern lifestyle.

  78. 82 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 11, 2008 at 02:40

    Selena, portlandmike and Abdelilah 😉

    Thank you very much for your words! It is great to have feedback from people around the globe. Here I have to “fight” everyday against the patriarchal idiosincracy. So, I don´t usually get positive feedback regarding my career.

    I feel better now. I have to be smart about this. Since my actual boss is a high ranking politician, and I only have been working for him for a month, I have to handle this carefully.

    Nevertheless… I am quite happy!!!

  79. 83 Dennis @ OCC
    September 11, 2008 at 02:43

    Congrats Luz on your new job…Sorry for not saying it earlier….

    *I am currently depressed, here at OCC and currently having very
    few friends…..


  80. 84 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 11, 2008 at 02:48

    Smile, there will be better times… 😉

  81. 85 Dennis @ OCC
    September 11, 2008 at 02:51

    Where is Bob in Queensland….?

  82. 86 Dennis @ OCC
    September 11, 2008 at 02:51

    @ Luz Ma:
    thanks for the add on FACEBOOK

    I hope so…


  83. 87 Shirley
    September 11, 2008 at 03:30

    War in Afghanistan: We’re Doing It Wrong
    Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, testifying together one day after President Bush announced that one Marine battalion and one Army brigade would be shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan this fall and winter, both stressed the futility of relying too much on military power in Afghanistan. "We cannot kill our way to victory,&#34 Mullen said.

  84. 88 Shirley
    September 11, 2008 at 03:32

    War in Afghanistan: Pakistani Sovereignty
    Pakistan’s military chief on Wednesday lashed out at the United States over cross-border raids by American troops from Afghanistan and said his country’s sovereignty will be defended “at all cost.”

  85. 89 Michael
    September 11, 2008 at 03:32

    I don’t feel the world is a safer place. I don’t feel my home in Indiana is more secure. Terrorist attacks on US soil and the USA response with the “war on terror” have changed how many things happen in the USA, but there really doesn’t seem to be more security than before.

    I don’t and haven’t ever really lived in fear, but in general, I feel that many Americans believe in a mythological sense of security and seem to think we can somehow make the myth a reality with a few tweaks to the outside world and then go back to living like nothing changed.

  86. 90 Shirley
    September 11, 2008 at 03:34

    In the Name of Oil

    At least 598 workers died on the job between 2002 and 2007, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. During that period, the number of deaths per year rose by around 70 percent, from 72 victims in 2002 to 125 in 2006 and a preliminary count of 120 in 2007. The fatality rate — that is, the number killed relative to the number of workers — also climbed during the first half of the decade.

  87. 91 Shirley
    September 11, 2008 at 03:44

    No End of World Yet 🙂

    It is likely to be several weeks before the first significant collisions. James Gillies, chief spokesman for CERN, said the only risk would be if a beam at full power were to go out of control, and that would only damage the accelerator itself and burrow into the rock around the tunnel.

    Well, ladies, we have some weeks yet for doing laundry and dishes. Sorry.

  88. 92 Luz Ma from Mexico
    September 11, 2008 at 04:02

    Dennis 😉

  89. 93 jamily5
    September 11, 2008 at 05:04

    Hi Ahmed,
    So, what do you think that Zardari will do while in office?
    What can you expect in tangible terms?

    Interesting articles that make you think and I hope that others who are more politically savvy than I will respond..
    I understand that you don’t want to let your boss down: especially if he has been a good friend and mentor.
    And, I remember you talking about your boss, a couple of times.
    He seems like the kind of guy that might initially fly off the handle.
    You don’t want to disappoint him.
    You don’t want to confront him on such a matter. You don’t like people to be angry with you.
    But, these emotions of his (even if they are the worst) will pass in time, also.
    What is the worst thing that could happen?
    Now, I am not trying to send you into panic.
    But, it is good to imagine the worst and then think of ways to combat it, if it happens.
    For example:
    He could yell and say that you let him down. He could say that you are irresponsible and that you didn’t appreciate him in the first place.
    To this, you might ask him if he would not do the same thing, if he was in your shoes. Remind him that it is purely a career choice and he need not be offended by it. Remind him of how much you had appreciated his guideance in the past. Let him know that you will still work hard for him until the day that you leave, because that is the responsible thing to do.
    And, afterall, his guideance and training has helped you achieve even more great things. You won’t forget his guideance…. etc.
    He could beg you to stay: reminding you of his need for you.
    To this, you might comfort him by reminding him who trained you and giving some possible replacements. You might even suggest that you use the rest of your time to help train the replacement.
    I understand that he is busy, but the quicker that you tell him, (although the work time might be awkward) the longer you will give him to find a suitable replacement.
    He could get angry and tell you that if you are going to leave, then, you should do it now.
    Are you prepared for this? I mean, economically?
    But, you could still retort that you know that he is angry, but you should really stay and help the transition. That is the more responsible thing to do.
    He could offer you more money.
    Then, your choice.
    If you are intent on going, don’t get into an argument with him or try and convince him of your position.
    He might not be ready to listen to reason.
    And, an argument, might mean to him that he can convince you to stay.
    Good luck!!!

    Jus keep your calm. Maybe you want to have some responses already written out. I know that whenever I am in pressure situations, I seem to not be able to think fast on my feet.

  90. 94 jamily5
    September 11, 2008 at 05:20

    how to deal with the guilt.
    Sometimes, we have to take our emotions apart and decide if there is any real reason to feel them.
    A. do you feel that you did anything wrong? Let’s see, you accepted a new job and informed your boss at his earliest convenience. Unless you have pledged your life to this boss and his job, or you have a contract that says that you will not quit until a certain date or timeframe, then, you did not do anything wrong. It is just a job and not a marriage! (Wait, people do that with marriages, also — but they usually feel no guilt whatsoever — smile),
    b. accept the fact that he might be angry. That is his emotion. He will soon understand that it was not personal — hopefully. And, if he harbors anger, that is his fault. You have done everything to make this an ammicable split. And, he controls his anger, not you. He could choose to be happy for your career. But, if he is choosing to wallow in his anger, then, that is his choice.
    His feelings and emotions should not control your actions.
    Whenever you start to feel the pangs of guilt then remind yourself that it is not necessary for you to feel this way and that it is not serving a good purpose.
    You can control your emotions and remind yourself that there is no good reason to feel this way. Set your mind on things that bring you joy and the perks of this new job.
    Remind yourself that you can’t please everyone all the time.
    Also, feeling guilt does not serve a good purpose.
    At least, not in this situation.
    How would you feel if you stayed because you did not want to feel guilty?
    That feeling would even be more overwhelming and it might not be good for your mental health or your family.
    I am not saying that we should never feel guilty.
    Guilt is an appropriate emotion if you have done something wrong and it compels you to make amends. But, in this situation, you have no need for guilt because you’ve done nothing wrong and needn’t appologize.
    If your boss tries to make you feel this guilt, it is out of a desire to make you feel like you “did” do something wrong.
    Stand firm, stay calm and speak clearly.

    Hope that this helps.

  91. September 11, 2008 at 06:03

    Knee Surgery Useless, Study Shows

    “Bad news for creaky Baby Boomers: There’s strong new evidence out that arthroscopic surgery is useless for arthritis of the knee.”

    I’ve had this arthroscopic surgery twice… twenty five years ago and two weeks ago I was in the orthopods office struggling. This surgury has been done millions of times. Perhaps one of the most often performed surguries.

  92. 96 Pangolin- California
    September 11, 2008 at 06:13

    I have to say that since Sept. 11th 2001 I feel much less safe and that feeling comes due to threats from my own government. The Bush administration has made it very clear that they consider active environmentalists and peace activists to be “terrorists.”

    They have Quaker pastors and Catholic Nuns on the no-fly lists. We have citizens sleeping in the streets as we destroy abandoned houses to protect “capitalism.” Yet the government rushes to the aid of imprudent investors in corrupt banks.

    The US government is no longer the friend of the people. Any people. It has become a system to reward the rich and fleece everybody else.

  93. 97 Tom D Ford
    September 11, 2008 at 06:24

    “…seven years on from the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, is the world a safer place? Has the multi-billion dollar battle against terrorism made where you live more secure?”

    The question reminds me of castles with moats, an idea that was defeated militarily.

    I’d suggest that the real battle is one of ideas.

    When one side wants to “dominate” the other, the “other’ will come up with ideas of how to defeat that “Dominator”. Bush is spending American Soldiers lives like water and spending Iraqi lives like piss-water. You just have to ask what the real cost of “Blood Oil” really is and who is paying that cost.

    So. How can you take OIL out of the energy equation and replace it with alternatives? How can you reduce OIL to an option instead of a necessity?

    I suppose it gets down to how can you take back control of energy from Big OIL?

  94. 98 Nofal Elias
    September 11, 2008 at 07:29


    Why would you feel guilty about leaving your current employer. Your employer will make you redundant in no time and for any reason without thinking about it.
    It works both ways

  95. 99 Nofal Elias
    September 11, 2008 at 07:42

    Use to hear “War on drugs” for years, why the US army does not destroy Poppy fields in Afghan. I would say destroy it at source and give the farmer the money we spend on fighting drugs at home.
    Now we get “War on Terror”, terriorst are just stupid means to serve their masters, who ever their master is.
    Also, I watched the other night “War on democracy”, very interesting documentary. It is not conspiracy 🙂

  96. 100 Katharina in Ghent
    September 11, 2008 at 08:12

    @ Luz Ma

    Congratulations to your new job! Is it the UN assignment? If so, then your current boss should be proud that somebody from his “stable” made it there. If he is such a fatherly figure, then, even if he is mad at you at first, he later most likely will tell everyone that “if you work for him, you can make it to the UN”… 🙂

  97. September 11, 2008 at 08:43

    UK Children’s Physical Activity Levels Hugely Overestimated

    “UK children’s physical activity levels have been greatly overestimated, with true levels likely to be around six times lower than national data suggest, finds research published ahead of print in the Archives of Disease in Childhood.”

  98. September 11, 2008 at 09:30

    Hi Ahmad in Pakistan
    BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7601748.stm
    The article clearly outlines the issues on Pakistan, Afghan border.
    What has been evident to most political analysts is that Pakistan is deeply involved in the terror attacks across the world.
    No offense meant, but Pakistan ferments extremism, radicalism, friction and confrontation across the world.
    I have a soft spot for Pakistan, but you simply don’t blend with the indigenous folks in Britain or anywhere else. You have enjoyed immense toleration and favour from host countries, but when will you give some credence to the other side?
    There are bright businessmen in Pakistan. They can advance the cause of the layman in that country, but look what they are up against! What are we going to do with 170 million Pakistanis, the majority of whom simply can’t make ends meet!
    All the Arabs have to do in Pakistan is to throw in a couple of bob, give the locals a good dose of fundamentalism and access to arms and they are rearing to go. The next war will be in Pakistan. You are an obvious target but you don’t see it coming or fail to do anything about it.

  99. September 11, 2008 at 09:33

    Hi Ahmad in Pakistan
    Akbar here in Tehran
    I left you a message but I can’t see it anywhere.
    Akbar Javadi

  100. 104 Vernon
    September 11, 2008 at 10:53

    As to the CERN experiment, I’m a sucker for adventure and discovery and besides there are probable spin-offs to this too. If we ignored this kind of thing and become locked into world problems there’d be no time for anything else. A practical strategy needs to be formulated to address such problems effectively though.

  101. 105 Roberto
    September 11, 2008 at 10:59

    The next war will be in Pakistan.

    ————– Low level civil insurgencies have been going on in Pakistan since it’s inception. Any peace has been brief and the exception.

    Since Musharraf paid lip service to the war on terrorism, the US has largely respected Pakistan border integrity as they waited for progress that never really came. These tribal areas are too tribal, too feudal, too medieval to respond well to modern military forces from the urbanized areas of Pakistan.

    I doubt they even consider themselves Pakistanis. Bin Laden’s genius has been inculturating himself with these people, earning their trust, which gives these terrorists what amounts to the world’s last great fortress to hide.

  102. 106 Bryan
    September 11, 2008 at 11:17

    Ain’t no 9/11 conspiracy.

    Funny, I attended a lecture about ten years before 9/11 by a well-known astrologer. He prophesied that there would be an major missile attack on Washington from the East around the year 2000. OK, he didn’t know they would be planes and he didn’t know about New York and his timing was a bit out. Still, I thought it was quite impressive. Most fascinating thing was, he thought the attack would come from Iran or Iraq.

    Well, I guess the conspiracy theorists would claim this guy was in on the “conspiracy.” It would add grist to their mill to know he is Jewish.

  103. 107 Bob in Queensland
    September 11, 2008 at 11:29

    @ Bryan

    Hah! You call THAT a conspiracy? I’ve met people who claim Nostradamus predicted 9/11 back in the 16th century.

    Nostradamus was, of course, Catholic but his grandfather converted to that religion from Judaism–clearly just to throw us off the track and cover up the conspiracy.

  104. 108 Dennis @ OCC
    September 11, 2008 at 12:37

    9/11/2001 and today is 9/11/2008:

    is a sad day that will be in our memories for all of our lifetimes….


  105. September 11, 2008 at 12:44

    Hi Bryan and Roberto
    Cassandra was never popular but we are talking facts and figures not fiction.
    The military are usually career dedicated individuals with little time to dabble in politics.
    Here you have Admiral Mike Mullen spelling it out loud and clear: Pakistan is the target of future military operations in the region. He doesn’t say anything about murky dealings inside and outside Pakistan.
    Why is this? Has Pakistan over-stepped the mark? Has the magic of the North West Frontier suddenly evaporated? Five years of fighting in Iraq and eight in Afghanistan have finally led to the conclusion that it’s all happening in Pakistan.
    Didn’t we know that all along!
    Will the US work closely with Pakistan as Admiral Mullen puts it or, as President George Bush would wish: “Allow US Special Operations forces to carry out ground assaults inside Pakistan without Pakistani approval.”

  106. 110 Robert Evans
    September 11, 2008 at 13:10

    Dennis you are right. Now most of you know that I live in the UK and that means that I was several thousand miles away New York and Washington. I can remember when I first heard of what happened. It was in the afternoon and I was on my way home school.

    Although if I was George Bush I would have probily done the same that he did although I would not have invaded Iraq in 2003.


  107. 111 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 14:07

    There’s an issue that has been overlooked by people on here. At the MTV Music Video Awards, Russell Brand gave a speech type thing, telling Americans they should vote for Obama. Should foreigners go to other countries to tell people how they should be voting?

    He also did other things such as criticize republicans, the Palins (especially Bristol) and insulted virgins. But that’s not the real issue. Should people from other countries be telling people who they should vote for?

  108. 112 roebert
    September 11, 2008 at 14:11

    The world is a much more dangerous place than it was before 2003. Mindsets have hardened, and various forms of neo-fascism, neo-imperialism, and neo-fundamentalism have become the accepted norm in social and political life. Warfare has descended to depths of barbarism that were last seen in the time of Genghis Khan, except that many more lives are thrown to the dogs with an apologetic shrug. Ad hoc terrorism awaits us at every corner. Political leaders lie and connive bare-facedly, and the public just accepts it. As if all this weren’t self-destructive and miserable enough, we are daily making more and more holes in our one and only little boat: planet earth. At most, we have fifty years to fix things. This is like neglecting your home for twenty years, and then trying half-heartedly to clean it up in the ten minutes left before your guests arrive. It’s more than just the most dangerous period in human history…it’s the period before the end of life as we know it. A crying shame.

  109. 113 robert1987
    September 11, 2008 at 14:17

    robert what happened in 2003

  110. 114 Nofal Elias
    September 11, 2008 at 14:21

    I have funny feelings that McCain is going to win November Election by 500 votes.

  111. 115 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 14:22

    @ Nofal

    That’s not really relevant, it’s the electoral vote count that counts,and all he needs is 270 to win.

  112. September 11, 2008 at 14:30

    i think world sould not be safer because the terror is becoming common in some Countries like what happen in Afaghanistan main prisons attacked last month, the al qaeda group become proud when they kill people like Osama Bin Ladden quotes during an attacked on Sept 11 who said if that one happen in America, then ,,it will be a lesson that America will never forget,, so let world join hands to fight on terror to defeat satan that grow in our soceity.

    Nelson Makoi, Sudan

  113. 117 Bob in Queensland
    September 11, 2008 at 14:32

    @ Steve

    An endorsement of Obama by Russell Brand can only help the McCain cause.

  114. 118 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 14:33

    @ Bob

    I agree, but the question stands, should foreigners be telling people how to vote? What does that have to do with music videos?

  115. 119 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 14:42

    Lots of rumors going around that Biden might withdraw so that Hillary can take his spot.

  116. 120 Bob in Queensland
    September 11, 2008 at 14:42

    @ Steve

    Being serious, nobody–foreign or otherwise–can force somebody to vote in one way or another. Like it or not, the US Presidential election is big news world wide and it’s only natural that everyone has a point of view.

    I daresay you’d venture an opinion on a UK or Australian election if you felt strongly about one candidate above another.

  117. 121 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 14:47

    I understand that Bob, but should a foreigner come to another country and tell people how to vote? Imagine if an American came to Australia or Canada and told people to vote for a conservative candidate? There’s a huge difference between having an opinion, and pleading for people to vote for a particular candidate.

    This is it. Please watch. I apologize for the commentary in it, it’s the only footage I could find that was rated PG.

  118. 122 Dennis @ OCC
    September 11, 2008 at 15:02

    interest of full disclosure:

    i did not lose any of my relatives on that day…. i remember that day, because, i had kidney stones in the summer of that year and couple days earlier…i was trying to eat real food for the first time in nearly 4 months…[i was on my way over to my grandmother’s house for breakfast that morning]. when i saw the story breaking on CNN….


  119. 123 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 15:14

    Joe Biden admitted yesterday that Hillary Clinton would have been a better pick for VP than he would be. Does anyone think that he is going to step down as VP candidate?

  120. 124 selena in Canada
    September 11, 2008 at 15:21

    What kind of message would Joe Biden’s stepping down send to the already struggling people?

  121. 125 Amy
    September 11, 2008 at 15:25


    Doesn’t America (by that I mean the government) send people to other countries all the time to try and sway voters? I don’t think your average citizen does it (or even celebrities really) but the current administration does it all the time. Remember the elections in Iraq and Palestine? We (the Bush administration) stuck our noses in those and they didn’t turn out quite the way we wanted them.

  122. 126 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 15:28

    @ Amy

    Do you have proof of this? I’ve never heard of this. The US never tells people who to vote for, but the US isn’t obligated to provide aid to nations who vote for governments hostile to the US.

    The US never said Palestinians cannot elect Hamas. But if Palestinians vote for Hamas, they cant expect to get aid. they’re still free to vote for whomever they want.

  123. 127 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 15:29

    @ selena

    Mccain got a bounce by picking Palin. If Obama wants to win, his chance would be improved by having Hillary, though it would also motivate more republicans to vote for Mccain because they really hate Hillary Clinton.

  124. 128 selena in Canada
    September 11, 2008 at 15:29


    Goodness Steve, where is your sense of humor? Wouldn’t you be laughing if the content were about Obama and Biden?

  125. 129 Jennifer
    September 11, 2008 at 15:47

    @ Steve

    Of course foreign people will have opinions, but unless they live here, I don’t think they should be trying to influence people’s decisions. I am not sure how credible people will think Russell Brand is… He was sort of funny but I really just wanted to help him brush his hair. I was pleased with Jordin Sparks and her comment to him regarding virgins/purity rings because his comments were uncalled for.

    I wish Biden would step down as VP candidate. Even if he did I am not sure I would change my vote now.

  126. 130 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 15:48

    @ Jennifer

    Biden would be in a bind if he stepped down. He couldn’t use a medical reason, as he wants his Senate seat. But admitting that Hillary would be a better choice would say that Obama has bad judgment.

  127. 131 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 15:49

    @ Selena

    No I wouldn’t. I dont’ think foreigners should be telling people who to vote for.

    Would you want an American to come to Canada and plead with them to vote for Harper and the conservatives?

  128. 132 Nofal Elias
    September 11, 2008 at 15:53


    Sometime you make me laugh, 70% of the Palestinians voted for hamas, yet Israel & US would not recognize hamas as the ligitmate goverment and label them as terriorst organization, to others are freedom fighters.
    Why is so difficuilt to give the Palestinians their own country and recognize them as an independant state, they have been talking about it since 1991 what is the big deal.
    How can you call any election in Iraq as real election where the country is under occupation, is just a joke.
    US adminstration will try to change the goverment in any state that they don’t agree with their policies – just watch “War on democracy” documentary.
    We all agree that Bush is the worst prisedant that US ever had, actually is worst prisendant “full stop”, yet the american people elected him twice. I am not saying anymore about this

  129. 133 steve
    September 11, 2008 at 15:56

    @ Nofal

    The Us and Americans don’t feel entitled to foreign aid despite who we elect. The Palestinians are upset that they don’t get as many handouts due to electing a terrorist group to power. they can vote for whomever they want, but aren’t entitled to foreign aid when they pick terrorists to lead them.

    Germany is occupied still. Do they not have real elections there?

  130. 134 Nofal Elias
    September 11, 2008 at 16:06

    How can you compare the US army basis in Germany with that one of Iraq and Palastine. Sometime I think you are missing the point.
    You call Hamas terriorst, I call them freedom fighters. Same the Iraqies freedom fighters to you they are insurgents, I don’t know who invented this word, lucky you don’t call them terriorst.

  131. 135 Jens
    September 11, 2008 at 17:04

    @ count iblis,

    “A century ago people used to sleep 9 hours per day and obese people were rare.”

    a century ago we did not have high fructose syrup, tons of preservatives in our food, high sugar drinks, preprepared microwavable dinners, fast food at every corner, a tousand different candy bars and sweets, seadatry jobs in fron of computers, 24 hrs TV with over 400 channels, computer games, cities organized around the car etc.

    fact is we eat too much and don not excersie enough. trust you tell somebody from that time that we have a stairmaster to simulate walking stairs, or running machines to simulate walking they would fall over laughing. we actually sepnd energy to do the most fundametal things we should be doing ourselves, but heck i go to the gym myself……nevermind the contribution of sleep to obesity is minumal compared to the overal impact of too much food and no excersise.

  132. 136 Nofal Elias
    September 11, 2008 at 18:30


    The Palestinians were not after any handout from Israel or US. Isral & Us refused to carry out any peace talk with Hamas. Still were talking to Abu Mazen, although he lost the election by a big margin and not just 500 votes(????).

  133. September 11, 2008 at 18:48

    We did well clipping back the tail feathers of the jihadists. We have proven to most Islamics that Allah hates the real bad ones who mostly kill fellow Muslims.

    My only suggestion would be America and the rest of the non Muslim world need to intensify the special ops efforts to identify, find, close with and destroy Allah’s enemies………which the jihadists really are.


  134. 138 ahm
    September 11, 2008 at 20:50

    lets not believe what we listen and watch from news media. they are b.s.
    check this and find out you yourself the game.

    find out .

  135. 139 ahm
    September 11, 2008 at 21:14

    here is another one 9/11 find out

    the pentagon is the most guarded building on earth.

    yet the US GOVERNMENT or Bush regime won’t release any videos showing a Boeing 757 hitting the pentagon on 9/11. check also part 4.part 3, part 2.


  136. 140 Roberto
    September 11, 2008 at 21:15

    Why is so difficuilt to give the Palestinians their own country and recognize them as an independant state,

    ———— Everyone who actually follows the conflict knows Palestinians under Arafat not only turned down the internationally recognized state of Palestine in 2000, but also tore up the peace treaties by rioting and launching a wave of hundreds of suicide bombers at Israelis, which forced them to build the wall.

    Of course 99.9% of the people in the world don’t know Palestine from Gertrude Stein, but it don’t always stop them from proffering an opinion..

  137. 141 jamily5
    September 11, 2008 at 21:16

    I understand that Bob, but should a foreigner come to another country and tell people how to vote? Imagine if an American came to Australia or Canada and
    told people to vote for a conservative candidate? There’s a huge difference between having an opinion, and pleading for people to vote for a particular

    When rica, do as the Americans do!
    Freedom of speech is a funny thing, isn’t it?

  138. 142 jamily5
    September 11, 2008 at 21:17

    Who says that Hilary would take Biden’s place, anyway?

  139. 143 Roberto
    September 11, 2008 at 21:23

    RE foreigners in the US trying to influence elections:

    ——-Big Newsflash:

    Foreigners have always influenced US elections, but only recently has it been magnified to unprecedented scale with global investments and the rise of Pacs. Saudis or the Russians can hire some folks and produce there own adds as long as they follow the law. The Russian government can invade Georgia and the Saudi king can squeeze oil supply. A corporation in Timbuktu can come to my town and support council members and mayoral candidates that grease the desired development.

    If a foreigner comes to the US to visit Disney World and wants to give a speech at the mall to passerbys, as long as he’s obeying the laws, he’s entitled to as much free speech as any citizen.

  140. September 11, 2008 at 21:48

    On right view
    Who is most responsibility for 911 event (September 11, 2001) ?
    Who strengthen the terrorist power and courage to hatch the 911 plot.?
    Current US history is written by Democratic president Clinton and he the most responsibility person for 911 event and current US economic downturns. If Americans have great political knowledge and high philosophy it’s easy to find out.
    It was Democratic President Clinton’s tenure of White House. I n 1993 World Trade Center has been attacked by terrorists. In 1996 Khobar Towers was bombing, again 1998 bomb explosions at US embassy in East Africa capital cities of Dar e salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. The attacks linked to local members of the Al-Qaeda terrorist network headed by Osama Bin Laden. But there were no proper actions was taken on Osama Bin Laden that would be strengthened terrorist power and courage and again in 2000 attacked on USS Cole in Yemen port, also there was no proper action was taken by democratic President Clinton. Since 1996 democratic president Clinton found that Osama Bin Laden’s wide range terrorist training center location was in Afghanistan but President Clinton didn’t take any proper action on Osama Bin Laden and Afghanistan.
    Actually in 1998 terrorists attacking on US Embassy in Africa is same level as terrorists attack on United States and since that time Democratic President Clinton must take military action on Afghanistan and must destroy the terrorist training center and Osama Bin Laden. But Democratic president ignored.
    So that condition had provided the strength, power and courage for Osama Bin Laden to successfully hatch the September 11, 2001 plot.
    So undeniable Democratic President Clinton is the most responsibility person for September 11, 2001 event and current US history.

  141. September 11, 2008 at 21:50

    Not to make light of Pakistan and US confrontations, but the situation of america persuing the enemy on pakistan soil reminds me of the game Civilization III, where your often attacked by a country while they are using another country your not at war with to harbour in and protect it. A very irritating situation, when I’m powerful enough I usually attack the harbouring country, I do hope america doesn’t persue the same tactics, to be fighting in two countries is stretching it, to be fighting in 3, I’d be very surprised if america wants this but I can see how it can get sucked in fighting in a 3rd country. I don’t think this is a wise escalation, the more killing the happier the terrorist, we need a genius maybe 2 genius’s to stop this getting even more out of hand. K T F.

  142. 146 Bryan
    September 11, 2008 at 21:55

    Bob in Queensland September 11, 2008 at 11:29 am

    @ Bryan

    Hah! You call THAT a conspiracy? I’ve met people who claim Nostradamus predicted 9/11 back in the 16th century.

    I can trump your Nostradamus with my Isaiah 34 – which seems to have prophesied the First Gulf War with talk of a great slaughter in the land of Idumea, mention of Basra and the pitch (oil) burning for generations.

    (OK they got the timing a bit out on that. That guy Red whatshisname from the US put the Kuwaiti oil well fires Saddam started out in a few weeks.)

  143. 147 Bryan
    September 11, 2008 at 22:26

    Nofal Elias September 11, 2008 at 3:53 pm,

    Roberto on September 11, 2008 at 9:15 pm said it for me. The Palestinians have had plenty of opportunities to have their own state, as everyone knows. They don’t want a Palestinian state alongside Israel. They want a Palestinian state to replace Israel.

    As for Hamas being “freedom fighters” they are in fact among the world’s worst terrorists. Unless you think deliberately slaughtering Israeli women and children by bombing buses and restaurants is somehow courageous guerrilla activity.

  144. September 11, 2008 at 23:49

    Bryan, the pop. of Israel is 7 million a small country, but having lost 6 million in the holocaust, Israel, isn’t going anywhere, no matter whatPpalistine hits Israel with Israel is not goin anywhere, it may even be growing. However people who fight based on religious ideology, which ever side, are the stupidest of the human race because the being they propose to worship is largely unknown, therefore no religion is right or ahead of any other religion as the being they all worship they essentially no nothing about, apart from the Unknown exists. If they don’t kill each other first, this religion based killing should die out or we should eventually evolve to be not so supid as to fight over religion. Keep the Faith

  145. 149 Bryan
    September 12, 2008 at 11:25

    Michael Barnett September 11, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    Bryan, the pop. of Israel is 7 million a small country, but having lost 6 million in the holocaust, Israel, isn’t going anywhere…


  146. September 13, 2008 at 16:01

    I know I am joining the debate a little late but I had to turn the radio off on Thursday when that ignorant American b$#ch was on. The English bloke speaking about thinking twice before going on the tube was funny. He was soooo restrained but she had no logical explination why they invaded Iraq. “Something had to be done” was her answer to everything. Yes, something had to be done but not any old random thing had to be done. I am still amazed that such ignorant people are let on the radio. Something has now got to be done about all the innocent children that are dying and forgotten about by the American people just because “something had to be done”. I´m afraid that something will be done right back on to us for it, and we will deserve it.
    Bush and Blair are war criminals……worse even, because they started a war for no reason and kept digging our graves. Good job!

  147. 151 Jennifer
    September 14, 2008 at 00:41

    @ Snorri

    Did you listen to the entire show? If you had, you would have heard some dude say that Iraq was on a list of risks and that was the reason Iraq was invaded. I agree with the ignorant American witch something had to be done! I don’t think we are ever safe from all things, but if we act passively and do nothing we are much worse off. What would talking accomplish? How can you reason with a people who have a completely different worldview? People who have that much hatred are NOT going to stop after a pleasant chit chat.

    Many innocent lives have been lost here in the name of fanatical people who came here and imposed their stupid fanatical religious beliefs onto innocent people who had done nothing to them. I have no problem with Muslim people or their beliefs. However, no matter which way you cut it, killing people and using your religion for validation is WRONG.

    As for finding it funny about the “English bloke” who thought twice about taking the tube, I don’t find that funny at all. When I was in my first semester of college, I took a class……with a man who looked like the “terrorists” I saw in news clips on TV. He never had a textbook and only came to class like 5 times during the whole semester. Every time he did though he would sit next to me and I would wiggle around nervously in my seat thinking that at any moment he’d probably blow us all up with the bomb in his shoe. That was ridiculous of me but that fear was put there by actual events that were planned and acted out methodically. I am sure that in addition to the loss of lives on Sept. 11th, the terrorists would be please to know that they did create fear. Maybe that’ll get them them into “paradise”!

    You should check out Youtube for some videos. I would recommend ones about women and children particularly. As for Bush and Blair being war criminals; that’s bullcrap. Please see all of my comments above for the “reasons”.

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