Hi, it’s James here. With Ros off to the US, i’m stepping up to the mike to host the discussion today.
Following her speech to the Republican convention, lots of you have been talking about Sarah Palin here on the blog, so today we’re going to run with it on air.
Two weeks ago no-one knew her name, now everyone has an opinion. Many Republicans love her because of her views – she’s Christian, creationist, pro-gun, anti-abortion and against gay marriage.
But she’s come in for lots of stick as well – as well as criticism of those views, she’s been accused of being inexperienced, and of being a bad mother to her five children. She’s been called a “cheerleader from the west” and a “trophy running mate“.
Some people, including Cindy McCain and McCain campaign adviser Carly Fiorina, say that this and other criticism of Sarah Palin is sexist.
Do you think the response to Sarah Palin has been sexist? Is she being judged on her gender or her views? Do you think that her nomination is a good thing for women? What about where you are – are women politicians still treated differently?
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Sexist? No. The reaction is to a politician with extreme views on many topics and a questionable record as a small town mayor and governor of a sparsely populated state….as it should be.
this will be relive for hillary supporters who don’t support obama.this will definately be benifit mccain.plus many may seem to support obama surfacely but racism generally tends to have deeproots in society so now american elections is going mccain way.
Oh wah wah wah. Palin is playing on her gender (see many of her gender related comments, including the call for women to vote for her to finish Hillary’s 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling.)
If you pull the gender card, you can’t expect all feedback to be positive and for your benefit.
I think it’s great that there is a woman on the ticket but she deserves the same scrutiny as any other candidate. She has made it clear she doesn’t need to be handled with kid gloves.
Sexist, partisan, or both is the real question.
Notice how the media did not bother to go digging for “skeletons” in Biden’s closet – liberal bias at its best. But really, it would not be half as bad if she were a man, or a Democrat.
I think the choice of Palin in the first place was sexist. McCain wants disaffected Hillary voters so he picked a woman, any woman, even an unqualified woman, because he feels that Hillary supporters will be drawn to any woman like a zombie is drawn to brains.
Unfortunately this woman he chose, is pro-life (even for rape, incest, or life of the mother,) creationist, NRA, and an abstinence-only advocate whose own daughter got pregnant because of her sexual activity and lack of access to or knowledge of proper contraception. This does not make her a beaming ray of hope for people who support Hillary, who is about the polar opposite of all those positions.
So yeah, cynically choosing a woman because her gender will help your ticket, is sexist.
*Stands up and applauds @ Gretchen*
Could not have said it better myself.
To Nick in MI – Biden has been around long enough for any skeletons to have come out, been scrutinized, and then brought up again when he ran for president this time around. Palin is new to us and much digging is done in a very short amount of time. I don’t know what media your watching but Biden’s had his fare share of scrutiny…it just played out over the last 30 years instead of in the last 6 days.
In some ways, the treatment probably is sexist. Nobody would ask a male candidate if he was doing enough to raise his five children but that question has been asked of her. In other ways, I think she’s been let off easy since she’s a woman – if a man espoused her extremely socially conservative views they would probably get a lot more criticism than she’s received. She’s even against abortion in the case of rape or incest which I think is just abominable.
As far as the inexperience charge, I think it’s entirely fair since she hasn’t been in office for very long – only about twenty months. If they were elected and something happened to John McCain she would not be qualified to lead the country. I think this is especially ironic because that’s one of McCain’s biggest complaints about Barack Obama.
Wait, putting her on the ticket is “sexist” because you don’t like her political views, but if she had liberal views, putting her on the ticket wouldn’t have been “sexist”? Okay.
The left is showing HUGE double standards on Palin. I am hearing them call for her to not run due to having a newborn with special needs. Yet the same lefties would get outraged if you suggested a liberal woman with a newborn not work. Why the double standard?
“So yeah, cynically choosing a woman because her gender will help your ticket, is sexist.”
Lots of people openly admit (both black and white) they are voting for obama because he’s black, becuase they would like to see a black president. By your very logic, then those people must be racist.
Hi my Precious James, and a very warm welcome to you from Baghdad…
Are the responses to Sarah Palin’s speech sexist ?! Wow, in fact, to me, anyone who argues that we all must give her a break and just simply ignore all of her very obvious flaws JUST BECAUSE she’s a woman, to me anyone who comes up with such an argument is actually sexist… In fact I do believe that the bases of her nomination as a VP by Mr McCain were all sexist in the 1st place…
With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…
I think the thing that bugs me the most in this scrutiny of her is the issue that she can’t be VP and mother at the same time. I guess the fact that the issue was even brought up shows that many people are still uncomfortable with a woman in that role because we would not have that discussion if it were a man with 5 kids.
@ Jeff:
She’s even against abortion in the case of rape or incest which I think is just abominable.
Unfortunately, that is exactly what Gods sheep want to hear and will earn her quite a number of votes. And because she herself is a woman, it’s more acceptable for her to preach the anti-abortion agenda.
As for the males who aren’t too keen on a woman VP, she’ll give them guns to shut them up.
Ugh… It’s going to be a sad sad day if this chica makes it anywhere near the White House.
@ Jeff
“If they were elected and something happened to John McCain she would not be qualified to lead the country.”
She still has 1.5 years of executive experience as governor of AK, and also mayoral experience. That is still 100000000000000000% more experience than Obama has. Obama has ZERO executive experience. ZERO. Let me restate that, ZERO. She is running for VP, unlike Obama, the ZERO experience candidate. Any concern you have over Palin, you should have 100x more concern over Obama due to his ZERO experience. Sorry if the truth is a little difficult to take.
@Gretchen
Awesome summary! I couldn’t agree with you more.
No, I don’t think coverage is sexist.
I think McCain was a little sexist in thinking people would vote for her simply because she is a woman.
She certainly gave the home crowd what they wanted!
I’m concerned though that she supports the Bush war, and will probably continue spending hundreds of billions of dollars for death and destruction.
I just don’t see that as “pro-life.” Too bad.
I wonder too, how she would stand up to the tough guys, like Putin, Kim Il Sung, or Ahmadinejad, not to mention Joe Biden!
Opposed to sex ed, and now her daughter is pregnant. How smart is that?
So the republicans are racist because they are against Obama, and the Democrats are sexist because they are against Palin.
Lol, this is better than a reality show! Much more drama and accusations flying around. Now, if we could just get them to go into the confessional things where they sit infront of the camera and spill their thoughts lol.
@ rick in MI
Er, I recall a number of Biden skeletons being unearthed within a day of his announcement. These include the plagiarism allegations that drove him from a previous presidential campaign, mention of his son, a political lobbyist and discussion of some rather questionable campaign donations.
Frankly, anybody moving from relative obscurity into the VP spotlight is going to get this treatment.
@ Brett
I hope you’re being sarcastic when you say “Ugh… It’s going to be a sad sad day if this chica makes it anywhere near the White House.” You, being from DC, knows that the VP doesn’t live at the white house and that the VP has virtually no power other than presiding over the senate and voting if there is a tie. That’s all the VP does.
It’s funny when the left accuses the right of scare tactics, saying “if you vote dems, you will all die!” when the left basicall says “palin will outlaw abortion, force you to buy guns, and make you learn creationism” when the federal government, let alone the VP, doesn’t have such power.
Stop the scare tactics.
@ Steve: Hence the comment “Anywhere near” (as in not being associated)
@Steve
Obama is a United States Senator, author of several books, Harvard graduate and former law school instructor. I’d choose his resume any day over Palin’s.
@ Jeff
“Obama is a United States Senator, author of several books, Harvard graduate and former law school instructor. I’d choose his resume any day over Palin’s.”
None of that is executive experience. She has several years of executive experience. The PRESIDENT is an executive position, not a legislative position, it’s not a book writing position, nor a teaching position. I’ve been to law school, professors do nothing there than merely guide the class and give out assignments and grade your one exam for the semester. Remember, she is running for VP, an unimportant position with no power. Obama is running for the real deal position, with no experience.
@ Brett
“@ Steve: Hence the comment “Anywhere near” (as in not being associated)”
Are you suggesting Mccain is like Bush and will delegate job to the VP like Bush did with Cheney? I find that highly unlikely. Palin is just going to preside over the senate and make foreign trips to go to funerals.
It’s interesting that most of the initial scrutiny has been coming from her own party but attributed to the opposition. I’ve heard very little real sexist criticism except by those pro Palin pundits who are making it a false issue. This woman is clearly strong enough to handle “the old boys network” that exists in Washington. This is politics and not kindergarten and she will be held accountable for her record just like any politician, ….and those that aren’t respectful of her should be openly chastised.
Brett,
In general I find you to be respectful and thoughtful, so please keep it that way and avoid lumping a diverse group of people together with terminology like “God’s Sheep.”
Thanks
@Brett
You’re exactly right – I think it would be a disaster if they’re elected.
Conversation over – Gretchen nailed it!
But, and of course, NOT being sexist – it is a question that should be fired mostly at women, it is they who McCain wants to vote for him, he chose her because she has all the vital parts a woman needs – to be a woman, yet her policy stance stinks.
But I could be wrong.
@ Jeff:
But Palin is a mom / has kids… and likes hockey…. and one of them is mentally handicapped (which she was praise for ‘keeping’? WHAT?!)… and has problems with her teenage daughter…. *audience* “AAAWWWWW
Unfortunately she resembles the ‘common person’ a bit more than a Harvard graduate.
Now before I get jumped on for being not PC and bringing up the handicapped child, keep in mind, the Republicans are using this as a selling point. So the useage needs to be addressed.
I don’t think the response is sexist. She’s on the ticket and is open to criticism just like everyone else is.
@ Brett
“Now before I get jumped on for being not PC and bringing up the handicapped child, keep in mind, the Republicans are using this as a selling point. So the useage needs to be addressed.”
This helps your argument? Oh, if something inconveniences me, I should have it killed? Wow. Some great values. Uh oh! My kid is mentally retarded, thus it should be killed. One day in the future, maybe we’ll abort brown eyed kids if that’s undesirable. Should we abort blind and deaf children too? How is that “empowering” exactly?
She was the BEST CHOICE that McCain could have made. He and the GOP are smart and are gonna get votes any way they can. Obama was stupid and should have done the same thing (I still want Obama to win over McCain), so now were gonna have One republican in the White House and two more in the Supreme Court.
-Anthony, LA, CA
P.S. I think McCain will kick the bucket within the four years, so we’ll have our first woman president.
@ Will
“she has all the vital parts a woman needs – to be a woman, yet her policy stance stinks. ”
Funny, she only counts as a woman if she shares your liberal views? That’s like what liberals said about Clarence Thomas, he doesn’t count as being black due to his political views. I wonder who that makes racist or sexist, that you have to think a certain way to be considered something.
@ Keith:
Sorry if I offended you, “Conservative-Partisan(?)-Christians”?; That is who she is aiming for afterall.
I agree with Riddler, the left is so up in arms about Palin because they are living in fear. Obama really should have picked Hillary, if he really wanted to win, though he would have had to watch over his shoulder constantly. But now Mccain is surely going to win, and the left is absolutely frightened now, and will use the kitchen sink approach to get at her, because they fear her for some reason.
@ Brett
You’re right – that’s what they’re selling but I think her views are a lot more extreme than most people as you’re already pointed out.
Obama, even though he’s a Harvard graduate, did not come from a privileged background. He’s a smart guy who’s taken advantage of the opportunities that he’s been provided and that’s the kind of person I’d like in office, with or without executive experience, Steve.
Hi again gang ! :-)… Yeah, obviously the mentality of our beloved Grandpop John McCain is sexist… He picked up MS Palin as a VP because he thought that all Hillary’s female supporters had voted for her only because she’s a woman, and that’s why surely all of disappointed female Hillary’s supporters will vote this time in the interest of Ms Palin, again only because she’s a woman, and that will surely guarantee lots and lots of votes for Grandpop McCain… Really bravo Ms Palin, because you allowed yourself to be a servant of such a creative and supermarvellous mentality like Grandpop McCain’s mentality… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…
Speaking of sexist did you see the buttons at the convention to the effect of “our VP is hot” or something like that. I saw a bunch of vets wearing them, …….classy….very classy!
Anna/all –
Do you know WHO brought up her inability to be a good mother AND veep?
A right-wing pundit. See Larry Kings Live show from last night.
I find this hilarious, that people think Mccai is sexist for picking her. I suppose Reagan was sexist for appointing Oconnor to the supreme court (the first female justice) as clearly it must have been some form of tokenism? And LBJ must have been racist for appointing Thurgood Marshall (the first black to the supreme court) because clearly, that must have been tokenism.
This helps your argument? Oh, if something inconveniences me, I should have it killed? Wow. Some great values. Uh oh! My kid is mentally retarded, thus it should be killed. One day in the future, maybe we’ll abort brown eyed kids if that’s undesirable. Should we abort blind and deaf children too? How is that “empowering” exactly?
No, she is firmly pro-life. So why is the republican party praising her for keeping a mentally handicapped child over any other child?
You did what you were supposed to do and followed your beliefs, what do you want, a cookie?!
How does that child feel when people are patting her on the back saying, “Gee, that was just so nice of her to keep ‘that child'”
@Gretchen,
daughter got pregnant because of her sexual activity and lack of access to or knowledge of proper contraception
I don’t think that it was her lack of knowledge about contraception or lack of access. Like it or not: teens do have a certain amount of knowledge about contraception, and the fact that Palin’s daughter did not live in a ultra-strict environment probably means that she had both access and knowledge. She just did not plan to use it.
You can’t blame it on lack of knowledge or access: but on pour decision making skills.
@Anna,
The fact is that the children need a parental figure and it usually is the mother. I suppose that I would not have a problem if the hubby would stay at home now and care for the children while she is VP.
The reason that the issue was brought up is because when men are VP, people just assume that the wife is caring for the children: so they are thinking that there is at least one parent caring for the family. This might be a flawed assumption, of course. But, in Palin’s case: with her as VP and her hubby as oil exec, who is caring for the kids???
We can champeon “Women have the right for careers,” all we want and they do.
But, at the expense of their families, I guess.
And, what does that say about Palin’s pro-family stance?
And on the note of the rather ubiquitous snide comments towards followers of Christ on this blog – Selena, I never responded to your last post that began with your remark about the sermon on the mount.
You said:
“This is a discussion so being general seems the only way to go.”
I’m sorry Selena but that is very very poor excuse for innacurate generalities. Maybe you should preface such statements with…I don’t really know much about this but it seems to me that….
“You know, I think the reason people dump on Christianity is because Christianity had so much potential to bring peace to the world.”
You didn’t respond to my list of ways in which it HAS improved the world. I forgot a few….a large percentage of the world’s hospitals and schools were built by Christians. Hospitals! So, we’ve got abolition of things like slavery and human sacrifice in various places, hospitals, schools, millions upon millions of starving people fed, charity in myriad forms, plus contributions to the overall cultural wisdom and ideals…What kind of amnesia do we have that I have to harp on points like that, and continue to get the responses that vaguely gesture towards some general bad vibes that folks have about a faith they know very little about.
“There is nothing to fault in the Sermon. Yet some people still manage to see it in terms of us vs them, as in I will love my neighbor as long as he is a carbon copy of me.”
Selena, I truly don’t wish to be insulting, but are/were you referring to anything remotely specific to the sermon on the mount, or were using it to be emblematic of Christianity? Do you know what passage that is, what it is about? Love your neighbor is not found in that passage. Love your enemy in fact is….which probably includes someone who isn’t a carbon copy of you.
All I’m asking is that as we address issues on here intellectually, no one gets a free pass when it comes to faith. There seems to be this idea that you better come prepared to discuss things carefully and with sound logic…unless of course it is faith, which we all seem to agree is just silly so we won’t bother with specifics. Sorry, not for me.
Steve –
Please don’t put words into my mouth. Read what you will in my posts, but quote me correctly if you wish to do so.
Thanks.
Okay, so McCain wanted a woman to pull voters from the Hilary camp. The fact is that there were better women to choose from.
Why did he choose Palin when there were better female choices?
@ Steve in OR
Well, I do think she’s hot!!! But in a situation like that putting that on buttons is childish.
-Anthony, LA, CA
@original question:
I don’t think Palin’s treatment has been sexist, and I hope we are not going down this road until November. Claims of “sexism” seem like a convenient deflection from Palin’s seeming lack of substance. This is not what Americans want this election to be about. There are some real issues facing the nation and the world; let’s focus on those, not the fringe of personality politics.
It’s not sexist. First of all, any person who aspires to an office in politics better grows very quickly a very thick skin, because the razor blades that are coming flying t you are sharp, no matter what. Second, Obama is critizised for not having enough experience – well, she is even younger, and while she has a little bit of governing experience, it’s really not a lot, so not much to be proud of, either. Lastly, yes, being a bad parent sticks much harder on a mother than it does on a father, but if the same thing had happened to one of Obama’s daughters, the Republicans would run in in 15min intervals on TV.
Brett, no worries. As silly as it may sound I would prefer “conservative partisan Christians.” The reason is, I am not one of those. But I probably would fall under the “God’s Sheep” category. A little extra clarity and respect never hurt anyone eh?
@Christianliberal,
I agree about being pro-life and sending troops. It seems like an oxy-moron, doesn’t it?
@steve,
It’s funny when the left accuses the right of scare tactics, saying “if you vote dems, you will all die!” when the left basicall says “palin will outlaw
abortion, force you to buy guns, and make you learn creationism” when the federal government, let alone the VP, doesn’t have such power.
Well, although I don’t agree with most of your argument, I was thinking the same thing in terms of how much would change.
Realistically, if Palin got in, she is not going to dictate. She, herself is not going to change gun law and not overturn Roe Verses Wade, no matter how much anyone might personally want her to or no matter how much she may want to, herself.
Hi WHYSers,
The remarks about Sarah Palin have not, necessarilly, been sexist, as they reflect the deliberate ignorance of so many of the commentators in their efforts to dismiss her. By not seriously critiquing her record/ politics, they leave open the door for McCain to escape without as rigourous a scrutiny as Obama’s campaign seems to have gotten in these last couple of weeks/ months.
I will have to say this about McCain and the Republicans, they surely know how to make the politics interesting. If nothing else, Sarah Palin was an excellent choice, strategically, after the DNC, Joe Biden and Obama’s knock-out speech, and what appears to be Hillary’s seeming desire to want to campaign for the Presidency still!
You have to give it to the Republicans, they know how to play dirty (?)…My only concern now is, how will the Democrats top the Republicans on possibly having the first woman in the post of President if McCain wins and cannot serve out his term!
@ Gretchen Eldrich September 4, 2008 at 2:58 pm
-Very well put, it amazes me that people can’t see the pick for what it is.
As for the sexiest card, Republicans will use this in the same way that Democrats use the racist card for Obama. Any time someone has an opposing belief in a candidate they are automatically stereotyped in one of these negative categories. All the more fuel to desensitize the American voter. Is it no wonder why voter apathy is growing at an exponential rate?
Don’t care, she’s tough and anyone stupid enough to tangle with her is only going to get their own feelings hurt.
I can’t help but think anyone running for high office in America today really does have to have a military backdrop. The main issues today are all ones of national security. Every issue from universal health care to energy are all linked to our national security.
Since our society breaks down into two specific lines = military service people and their families and the ones who do not step forward to serve or give one of their family member to step forward to risk life and limb.
The Dims have Biden that has a son in the reserves getting ready to put in active duty time. The Rubs have both members of their ticket sending sons into harms way. McCain is the only one who did fight and risk high loss personally, and he has 3 sons stepping forward to stand against those who attack us and pose real threat against us.
The dims had good talkers, and now the rubs have talkers who have actually done stuff.
The Rubs were hilarious last night, joking about how the dims just talk, yet the Rubs talked too, but augmented that talk and funny little jabs with stark, tear jerking accounts of command, attack and doing things not just talking and voting present and refusing to risk taking a chance at getting it wrong by voting yes or no on most all issue that ever come up before a do nothing Congress. It is unbelievable that the dims get any following at all by their leaders standing before the world announcing that our wars are lost and that we should stop endangering our people and just come home. There is no encouragement or attempt to help our troops, just quit and stop annoying really dangerous and bad people……and encouraging them…..pathetic traitors/losers! I’ll go for the old beat up fighter pilot and the iron, pittbull of a lady from the wild frontier. If she is so inexperienced how did she manage to get elected the Governor of the greatest state in all of America. How did she deliver so many laughs and so many reasons to vote for the Rubs.
She is tough and the idiots can waste all their time talking about various theories against guns, gods, drilling for oil……they better not turn their back on her, She’ll steam roll right over them and take a laughing bite out of their backside, as she passes over them on her dog sled.
troop an old Alaskan who could not get used to the cold.
troop
Concerning Palin, the investigation she’s undergoing and the pregnancy of her daughter will continue to be an issue. Gender has nothing to do with attitudes towards her. She was little known even in the US before she was picked up as VP candidate by John McCain. During the campaign she will have to prove that she is the right choice and not in the shadow of John McCain.
Women in many countries can’t have a great political role because they still lack the political connections. Party leadership is still male dominated. In Morocco, there are female ministers. But they don’t yet hold key ministries. The current female ministers hold just the ministries of culture, sport, energy and social affairs.
As long as parties are male dominated, women will continue to be marginalised. They can’t alone conduct campaigns when the experience for that is still in the hands of men.
When women can at least have a fair share of running local affairs, then therte can be hope, they can make it to the top. Now female leading politicians are still very few even in old Western democracies.
Many say that it’s not so important what Sarah Palin stands for because she’ll only be VP. Has anyone of them considered John McCain’s age? He’s already 72 or will be when the election comes around and I read somewhere that he has problems with skin cancer. So the chances are very real that Sarah Palin will have to take over, either completely or for a while if McCain has to go to hospital. And then all the non-worriers will have a bad awakening.
Thank Goodness ! If the duties of Sarah Palin as a future VP were to only go onto foreign trips and attend high-class funnerals, then the Left wing has nothing to be afraid about, but also the Right wing has nothing to be happy or joyful about when it comes to her nomination as a VP eh ?! :-)… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…
@steve
Perhaps it’s not entirely a bad thing that Obama lacks executive experience. Our current so-called “leaders” have executive experience, and our country sure hasn’t been going in the right direction lately because of it. It isn’t experience that matters; it’s common sense, which this administration simply doesn’t have. Without experience, Obama will be starting with a fresh slate.
That said, people are criticizing Obama for his lack of experience just as much as they have been criticizing Sarah Palin, so I can’t possibly see how that part is sexist. As for the criticism on how she has raised her children — how she raised them shouldn’t matter, since I’m sure she has done the best she can at that.
I bet you can find many qualified (or experienced) male republicans with the same views that Palin. In my opinion, McCain only picked her because she is a women and then, he and she, could play the gender card (specially since Obama didn´t pick a woman for VP).
In my opinion, Sarah Palin´s appointment as running mate for McCain is sexist, because she wasn´t picked by her experience and/or qualifications. She expects to be threated differently because of her gender. McCain expects the same. That is the worst that could happen when we talk about the advancement of women in politics. If women want to be included, they have to endure the bad part that comes with the job (in this case scrutiny by the press in every aspect of your life and your moves). If they don´t like it, they should step out or try to change the “rules” (which would take a fair amount of time and effort).
In Jamaica, there is a challenge currently being brought against Portia Simpson-Miller, the former Prime Minister and Jamaica’s first female politician, by her Party for the leadership post. The feeling is that she has not performed creditably and should be sacked; bearing in mind that there are other issues in this challenge other than those which have been stated for the record.
Women politicians do have a comparably harder time insofar as working traditional networks and bases of power/ support. That does not mean they cannot do so but that there is greater need for a critical mass of support for certain issues which define a ‘woman’s agenda’. To achieve this, we have to rise above the question of gender. The challenge, of course, is how to do that as women are, by their very natures (?), symbolic representations of the much dreaded ‘gender question/ issue’.
@Brett
“So the republicans are racist because they are against Obama, and the Democrats are sexist because they are against Palin.”
LOL 🙂 🙂 🙂 Good one!
Roy – right on, well said!
Luz – right on, well said!
“first female politician” should have read “first female Prime Minister” above.
And in the meantime, neither of the parties focus on tackling the major issues confronting the nation–sounds like politics as usual!
@ Keith,
Well said in both instances, indeed.
@ Kelsie in Houston,
Now that is well said!
@ Kelsie in Houston
Politics: Poly from the Latin meaning many. Tics meaning blood sucking creatures.
So right, Kelsie!
OT Aside: The other side I notice is that EVERYONE posting is able to analyse and pronounce on the machiavellian strategies in play that all other voters will fall for. Okay, you should never overestimate the intelligence of the general public but I suspect more will suss out how they’re being groomed that is assumed in this blog.
@ Kelsie
And in the meantime, neither of the parties focus on tackling the major issues confronting the nation–sounds like politics as usual!
Who cares, America just wants to weigh in and find out whos going to get voted off the island and who’s going to be the next Survivor! Lol.
@ Bob in Queensland,
But there is a way that you cannot help but notice the politicking and the ways that each is trying to outdo the other, which is why Kelsie’s point is so spot on! In the effort to tear each other down, even while I am biased in favour of the Democrats, an ideal opportunity to seriously question thier politics/ record is passing us by. This is where the ‘intelligence’ of the voters come in.
However, given that the media have so many axes to grind, it would appear, and even fewer want to tell us the ‘real story’ (whatever that is!), you can imagine this is part of why there seems so much focus on the ‘Machhiavellian’ strategies currently in play.
@Kenny and Brett:
Hilarious! And a fine etymological breakdown of the word “politics.”
Brett, unfortunately I think you are so right. So many Americans are just watching it play out as reality entertainment. I was in Wal Mart the other day (which I try to avoid for the sake of my bleeding liberal global conscience) right after Obama’s speech and they had just put out the paper for the next morning, the headline of which was that he was officially the nominee, etc. So there were two papers there and a couple behind me was confused. I noted that the Obama one must be for tomorrow because it is news that technically happened only an hour earlier. The guy said, oh, so he’s officially president now? I said, no he’s officially the democratic nominee. He said, well when is this thing over? When do we get to find out who the president is going be?
amazing. He then went on to say the only president he cared about was Clinton. Something about him being “cool” because he got pleasured in the oval office.
I don’t about you guys, but I just can’t wait for the American Political Idol results show in November.
@ Rawpoliticsjamaicastyle:
You hit it dead on: the politics of personality (“sexism,” “racism,” accusations of flawed parenting or closet Islamisization) are consuming the airwaves and deflecting attention away from the real policy stances the candidates have (or, in Palin’s case, apparently don’t have).
This is going to favor Palin very strongly because, amidst the flinging of insults and clever one-liners, she will largely escape intense media scrutiny focused on her lack of political acumen or even literacy.
Hi
When I have to vote I look at the policies each party have and I vote for the party who has the sort of policies which I support. I dont really care about the fact that they well be the dullest ever politican. Although if evenyone was like Boris Johnson here in the United Kingdom then I would find that most facination.
I don’t think this subject makes good conversation. We went over this topic a few times when it was based around Hillary Clinton.
-Anthony, LA, CA
@Bob:
It would be very nice…I would hope so. I wonder how the political literacy of the American electorate stacks up against that in other places around the world?
@ Brett
Exactly. We as a country tend to focus on things that aren’t important at all in the grand scheme of things. Who got voted off the island last night falls under this, and I would say that the fact that McCain’s running mate happens to be female also falls under this.
@Keith:
I think you just dashed those hopes! I suppose the fellow in your anecdote is a fine representative of the electorate: “Huh? The process? No clue–but I do like SEX!!!”
@ Kelsie in Houston,
Indeed, and I think it is so unfortunate because this could be the Democrat’s year to win! I hope somewhere in the Obama campaign there is a recognition of the need to stay on message and ask the tough questions of their opponents. Worrying about whether Sarah Palin and her supporters would take offense as a result of that kind of approach would not concern me one bit. As it stands now no one is grilling her as rigourously. I am sure that McCain and his planners saw this opportunity and are capitalising on it.
In the aftermath of the criticisms levelled against Hillary about sexism, most are afraid (?) of pushing on the Sarah issue. What a double standard, indeed!
@Rawpolitics:
I think, though, that the Republicans are counting on sexism–I dare say asking for it, since it underscores perhaps the only noteworthy aspect of their ticket: that Mrs Palin is a female. It also provides a convenient smokescreen under which Gov. Palin can disengage from conversations or debates assailing her lack of political literacy.
That’s because McCain is running Hillary’s campaign over again, Anthony.
The only difference is – she had policies and spoke about them, John McCain doesn’t.
@ steve
wow! it not shocking that only in america that a female with not credible record no legislative experience and the governor of a national wildlife refuge for a state would be put on a ticket to gain votes for an election like that isn’t sexist enough. look you right wingers preach family values but then she has a 17yo pregnant daughter.
@ Denzel
She’s running for VP, not for a legislative position, though she would preside over the senate. Perhaps if she were running for senator, having no legislative experience would be relevant. Kind of like how Obama, with no EXECUTIVE experience is running for an executive position. What does her having a pregnant daughter have to do with her being on the ticket? If she had a son that got a girl pregnant, would you be bringing this up?
@ Will Rhodes,
Good one.
I cannot help but think though, and I say this with a great amount of trepidation, that it may work this time with McCain and Palin. After all the excitement about sexism and the constant (?) cries of racism used against Obama, everybody will just stop saying these things and do a complete 180 (degrees) instead. So, less discussion of policy and less interogating of the candidates and their positions which works to McCain’s advantage. A real pity!
Even while they say the VP does nothing for the ticket, I disagree. I would love to see Palin talk some more about her record and hear what her plans are going forward. And, how her experiences as Alaskan Governor makes her a good choice for VP of the US. There is a real possibility that if the Republicans win she may become President. So, I think the choices for VP matter this time in a way that is very important.
@ Steve,
But isn’t the matter of her daughter’s pregnancy part of what people are forced to discuss given how very little seems to be known about her? Whereas, I cannot speak to whether she had a son the response would be the same, there is need for more rigourous critique of Mrs. Palin’s credentials and politics.
The issue of experience is a valid one, in the wider context of what that does or does not do for the Republicans who in their criticisms of Obama have made that into a real ‘concern’. It is most telling that they, having brought that criticism, are now guilty (?) of a similar ploy? If that is not curious, I am not sure what is.
Is it that the Republicans are expecting to win without actually justifying why they are deserving of the position? We know what Obama is about, for the most part; however, no one seems keen enough to know more about who McCain is now that Sarah Palin and her family issues seem to have taken pole position in news discussions. This is a real tragedy.
I haven’t seen this in written article form, but I’m sure one could easily find it, but I’ve heard on radio shows, that Obama says he has equal to or more EXECUTIVE experience than Palin due to him running his presidential campagin. LOL.
That would make me laugh so hard if it were true. I due pray he doesn’t have a campaign manager, otherwise he really would have owned himself with that one. Comparing running a presidential campaign with running a state?
Gretchen ~
I suspect the pick had ulterior motives but it was smart. She is a strong woman that has been portrayed as the average person like you or I. That appeals to a lot of people. Unfortunately I find it quite ugly when the speakers at the RNC were trying more for a comedy routine and smearing the other candidate. What is going on in this country is not a joke and I want to hear how the problems will be solved. I know the candidates records; I’ve heard it a million times and read it. Tell me how this country is going to get fixed and I want specifics and I expect the same thing of the Obama campaign.
@ Kelsie in Houston in response to Keith,
You are a very bad, girl (?)! I would say woman, but ‘girl’ has a nice ring to it! LOL! Seriously, though, I am not sure how many people actually gives two hoots about real issues in these elections. As Keith says, it is almost American Idol with Armani suits and speech making – for most people! I am eager to know more about Palin and the implications of her as VP in a McCain Presidency, but I suspect that that might not be forthcoming for some time yet.
Denzel,
Seriously, the family values thing? Let’s be honest, her daughter’s pregnancy is 100% irrelevant. It’s fine if you’re not a fan of her (incidentally I’m not either), but lets not stoop to meaningless jabs. That kind of soundbyte is a lowest common denominator personal attack. I appreciate the fact that Obama has stayed above that kind of irrelevant stuff.
@Anthony
I completely agree with you concerning this issue.
I do not agree with her concerning the issues. I think it is good that he selected a female to be his running mate. Only time will tell if it was a good decision. Hopefully he will be able to get some of those women voters that just want to vote for a female, to combat some of the black voters that will only vote for Obama because he is black. Hopefully that will even the divide, somewhat.
Additionally, I personally cannot in good conscience vote for someone who puts political aspirations above her family. I cannot understand how someone will put all of their focus on politics and not on their family. If her husband is the one who is taking care of the family issues I will understand. I think it is funny that many individuals with conservative views regard her in high esteam, but if the tables were turned they woulkd be talking about family values.
The one postitive aspect of this election is that mor epeople are becoming involved. I know who I will vote for but I hope people will vote and get involved whether they support McCain or Obama. People may get involved for the wrong reason, for women and blacks, but at least people are starting to pay attention and realize that they must get involved if they really want change. Sorry for the length.
Would McCain have chosen Palin if Hillary didn’t run in the democratic election and almost win? I think its obvious that McCain chose Palin because she is a woman and he is trying to compete with the historic campaign of the democrats. As a woman, I find it just as insulting to be chosen for a job because I’m a woman as I would if I didn’t get the job for the same reason.
@Steve
He did say that which was one of his mouth slips.
I really think you are just a rightie disguised as a democrat.
Do I really want to answer this question?
Yes, it is.
Men, whether Republican or Democrat bring their families along with them like trophies. Men are not criticized or under pressure to prove they are indeed a “good parent” whereas Sarah Palin has directly been scrutinized about her parenting skills. Many people have chosen to judge her based on that and not her ability to be a good VP.
Venessa,
Thank you! You are so right, and that was exactly my reaction to watching last night as well. I thought the tone of smear and the low-blow jokes and the riotous laughter were so tasteless and unbecoming. I am embarassed as an American honestly. There was so much less of that at the DNC, and you can mock the optimism and hope all you want, but those things are being to easily discounted by detractors. Good God, we need some optimism and hope in addition to good policies!
@ Angela
“Additionally, I personally cannot in good conscience vote for someone who puts political aspirations above her family. I cannot understand how someone will put all of their focus on politics and not on their family. ”
This is why I don’t vote. But can you show me ONE politician that doesn’t do this? Hence, you shouldn’t be voting for anyone. Remember the Mcgreevy guy, had a sham marriage just so he appeared heterosexual so he could get into power. Politicians are sick individuals. They care about NOTHING other than what they want. And we put them into office.
@ STEVE
THE RIGHT WINGERS ALWAYS JUDGE PEOPLE ON MORALITY AND FAMILY VALUES AND RIGHT NOW HER FAMILY IS LACKING ALL THE VALUES THEY TEND TO BEAT PEOPLE OVER THE WITH. THE RELIGEOUS RIGHT CONTRIDICTS THERE OWN BELIEFS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. OH AND DIDN’T BILL o’RIELY BASH jAMIE lyNN for getting pregnant as a teen lets see him talk out the side of his mouth now.
All that matters at this point is that she said Palin: Iraq war ‘a task that is from God’ This is the kind of crazy talk that has landed us in this spot to begin with.
@Steve
I can understand your point but my conscience requires me to vote because if I don’t I can’t complain about the people. I know a lot of people that don’t vote and just complain. Yes, most if not all politicians are narcissitic and only care about themselves but there are some that do care. I am not about to say that I think Obama is a saint but I do beleive he really cares about most American, even people who won’t fatten his pockets. Obama is very liberal and that may hurt him. I don’t think for one second that McCain or Palin care about most Americans. I think they care about fatten their and their friends pockets. However, they all have issues and weaknesses.
Lubna, could you please weigh in on how this war has been a “gift from god”.
@ Denzel
Is Bill O’Reilly running for President or VP? If not, WHO CARES what he says? Jamie Lynn Spears was a kid on a TV show, and was a role model for girls all across the nation, who then got pregnant. You never even heard of Bristol Palin before last week. That’s the difference.
Plus I actually think Obama contributes to his speeches, if he doesn’t write them completely himself. The other two candidates have their speeches written for them.
My only fear is regarding the supreme court judges, I hope and pray that the far right will not win.
World population: which has been discussed here. I believe it is irresponsible for a couple to have more than two children. And fault the Palins for that.
Virginia in Oregon
@ Angela
Doesn’t Obama have two little kids? Don’t they need their dad? The Presidency requires very long hours, I doubt he’ll have much time to spend with his daughters. Mccain has adult children, so it’s not an issue. If you have a problem with Palin being VP (a job that requires no effort or time) becuase she has family needs, then the same MUST apply to Obama. Or are you saying it’s okay for Obama’s wife to handle the kids, but not okay for Palin’s husband to do the same? It seems you might be having a double standard here.
Obama, like all politicians, just says what you want to hear. That’s what they do. If you really believe what they say, then I have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you.
JFK had two very small kids and was president. Nobody thought anything of it. Obama has two small kids, is running for President, nobody has said anything of it. Palin, running for VP, has a few small kids, and people (on the left) are raising holy hell about her being irresponsible for running for VP (not even President) having small kids. Who are the sexists again?
Even rabbi shmuley is discussing the double standard on his show now.
Rawpolitics –
It must have been said here already – but I am writing up another post for my blog, but…
I watched her at the “rally” last night – and, by the grace of God and a cameraman/woman they showed the buttons worn by those who screeched so enthusiastically.
“Sarah Palin is a ‘Hottie'” – “The ‘Hot’ VP” and a multitude of others – now I am a man so I must be seeing those as…no, not really – can’t be can it?
The sexist argument on this is defunct – the RNC made those buttons – and they were willingly worn by those watching her.
@ Virginia:
LOL But 2 things conflict there and justify her baby-having-habits…
1) The god-given ‘right’ to reproduce like bunnies
2) She’s against abortion, so if they were unplanned, eh, she was stuck with them anyhow.
Also, I don’t think she cares about overpopulation. Or not enough to change the way she or Americans live.
before we discuss her pouty smile, her hotness and whatever have a read through this link, and this is only the beginning. do we want another 4 years of lies and distortion? do we need to be laughing stock of the civilized world? do we need somebody else, who listens to god to invade a country? me thinks not.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check
@ steve
Bill is the right sicko fans greatest champ and he is one of cheerleaders for the morality but Palin is needs to get her house inorder so trying to cover up her daughter pregnancy is a sign to show how the exec. is not going to change from the Cheney era
where is my last post?
@ Steve
“This is why I don’t vote.”
Did you really say that – really??? If you’re a US citizen, and you don’t vote, you have no business pontificating on politics, the state of politics, or the candidates, as you’ve chosen to mute yourself at the most important place – the voting booth.
Anyone who espouses political viewpoints, but chooses consciously not to exercise the precious franchise of the right to vote, has immediately cemented for me that their voice need not be heard. You mute yourself at the ballot box, you should be neutered and muted here.
All over the world, in emerging democracies, people risk their very lives to cast their votes – and here you are, telling us why you don’t vote?!?!
Like Professor Charles Kinsgfield in The Paper Chase, I am shrouding you under a black cloth, and you and your comments no longer exist. Once you realize that a mute at the ballot box is a mute in the political ring, and change your ways, I’ll remove the shroud.
isn’t it just lovely, how we have now a second nutjob, who believes the iraq war is due to god’s will.
these christian right wingers are making me sick to my stomach. i always thought god was a benovalent one. sure a couple of hundred thousand deaths later and his benovalence is clear. i just hope that god will these idiots to pull out soon.
@ steve,
Having a small child is one thing. Having a Down Syndrome child that any parent of one will tell you takes “all of my time” is another. Having an unemployed 17 yr old teen mom as well is another thing. Doing it all under the scrutiny of the medias eye, is flat out irresponsible.
JFK’s youngest was 4. Jackie was home with them. Are you saying that all the sudden this commercial fisherman, Ice Machine racer, and Union oil driller is going to stay home and play Mr. Mom now? Look at the results on her family just after being governor for 20 months.
@ Dwight
(1) If Palin were a man, would this be an issue, would you mention that he should say home with the kids rather than run for office?
(2) JFK Jr. was only 3 months old when JFK took office in 1961.
My mom had me in daycare, that’s okay becuase she’s a liberal, but not okay for the VP to do, becuase she’s a conservative?
@Steve
I just think it is funny that a party that respects family values supports someone who put politics first. And you can’t deny if it was the other way around the right would be saying the same thing.
Additionally, I did say that if Palin’s husband is there that is fine.
I am not going to be politically correct but it is a double standard and will always be a double standard. I will always regard a female differently than a man. I am not going to say that it is right but who cares. There are going to be just as many women voting for her because she is a women or more, as there will be women not voting for her because they feel she may be neglecting her family.
I don’t agree with her choice but that is her decision. I think differently. If I shared her views, I would think the same way. Although I might still vote for her because she I care more about this country than someone’s family business.
@ Chris
Yes, people must be silenced if you don’t approve of what they do. I’m proud to not be voting. If you think people who don’t vote need to be silenced, then perhaps you should move to some nation where they jail you for not voting for the one candidate option you have.
@jens
I feel the same way.
@ Jens:
isn’t it just lovely, how we have now a second nutjob, who believes the iraq war is due to god’s will.
When you don’t have good reasonings for war, or respectable and understandable reasonings, pull the religion card.
Well if God says its ok, then, lets go kill us some enemies in the name of God! WOOHOO!!!
Yes, because God encourages killing… What a nice image to project of your God and religion.
Hence the statements “Who would Jesus Bomb” or “Who would Jesus Kill”.
Dragging religion into war or as a reasoning for war is pathetic and against much of what religion stands for in the first place. It’s a prime example of people hijacking religion for personal or national gain.
All I can say is that I hope she gets eaten alive at the debates. Harsh? I don’t care. She is an unqualified person (who happens to be female). Her’s and Rudy’s “performances” last night were embarassments to America. I felt as though I was watching comedy routines. No wonder our country is in shambles if these are the type of people in leadership roles. A sad example for the next generation to say the least.
Reporters were saying Biden should go easy on her in the debates. That is sexist and should be thrown out the window.
Questioning her family commitments? I dont take that as sexist as much as irrelevant. It’s her decision. I do recall people asking John Edwards if he would be able to serve as President even though his wife had recently been diagnosed with cancer. Personal commitments can be discussed, but in the end these factors are irrelevant to the person’s decision to run for the position. Irrelevant discussion about a female is not sexism.
How about people at the convention wearing pins “Hottest Governor, Coldest State” — now THAT is sexist.
The response to her hasn’t been sexist, but as usual, the GOP wants to cloud the issue by making it about that. The issues have nothing to do with her being a mother, a woman or having an unwed pregnant daughter. She fired a librarian for refusing to take certain books off library shelves. She fired an innocent man who refused to take part in her vendetta against her ex-brother-in-law. She hired a city manager to pinch-hit for her on what amounts to part-time responsibilities as Mayor of Wasilla, then left the city in $20 million in debt. And she continues to lie about her role in the “bridge to nowhere.” Yet she was chosen ahead of a dozen other women who have served in an honorable capacity, without the cronyism she’s shown, without the extremism she’s exhibited (e.g. “no abortion, not even in cases of rape of incest”) and who don’t have ties to a secessionist group. What IS sexist is that these women were passed over for a former beauty pageant contestant, and that McCain has cynically assumed that Hillary Clinton supporters cared more about getting a woman in the White House than about McCain bringing his A-game to the Presidency
@Steve
I didn’t say that I beleive everything that politicians say. I do beleive that he cares more about the American public than other politicians. That is my humble belief.
@ Colleen
the VP debates are irrelevant. Mccain is going to win regardless of how she performs. YOu don’t like someone’s politics so they are “embarassments to America”? Isn’t that a little over the top don’t you think? Does Ralph Nader embarass Nader because I don’t like his politics?
You say the country is in Shambles, but Guiliani holds no office, and Palin is the governor of a state you don’t live in, so how could the condition of where YOU live have been any way affected by either of these two people?
This woman has invited sexism.
She has made a point to exemplify it by her participation in a national Beauty contest. She has made mention of Hillary and Gerald Dean as if se were in the same class just because she is a woman. She boast about being a hunter and a fisherman not because she is exemplifying her hard work, but because she knows NRA republicans will find it “sexy”. I have heard that from every solid conservative from the moment she was picked The only question I have is, who was the black guy McCain had on the list to pick if Obama had lost and Hillary didn’t pick him?
@ Angela
If you believe Obama cares about anything other than what he wants…. bridge.. brooklyn…
It’s just like the people who thought they wanted Bush because he seems like a nicer guy. a narcissist is a narcissist is a narcissist. He wants ONLY want he wants, and will say/do anything to get the power he craves. He’s no different than any other politician. That people think he’s different is due to how their charisma affects judgment of the voters.
@ steve,
Yes it would be and issue. Maybe not as profound. But democrats would certainly be targeing it. My bad it was carlin that was older. However, this family has show a need for parental intervention. Is that the “family values” that she is talking about. IT is the typical conservative line “do as I preach not as I do.”
@ Laura:
That is one of the best comparisons and skits I have seen in a long time!
Haha, thanks for sharing!
(referring to the Daily Show link which should be posted on this thread too as it deals directly with the sexism issue and the double standards lol)
steve,
all i hear from you is how this politician is an narccisist and that politician is one and the next and next.
who would you want to president then, since all of them are frigging politions unless you want to vote for me or brett or angela or vanessa or julie, or your neighbor. politics is the business of politicians, even though it is way to seriouse to leave it in there hands.
common tell us whom you want. maccain is certainly not the answer, and i prefer obama by about a million times.
@ steve,
Can you give me the reason a guy who graduates top of his class from harvard, could command 6 figure income, doesn’t need to even be in government, turns it all down to go back and do a low paying community service job in the town he grew up in?
@Steve
I respect the fact that you will not vote and understand your reasoning. I can definitely say that my decision is based on the present conditions in the US. I realize Obama’s plan will be hard to achieve but I don’t want McCain to select any justices. I don’t want extremely liberal candidates but I can’t accept extremely conservative candidates.
I have to go back to training. I know the rest of this debate is going to be good.
@ Jens:
Sweet, vote for me! If you don’t your being sexist!
@Steve
Btw, I never thought W. was a nice guy.
Is the responce sexist? It is time to get past this and look at Sarah Palin’s accoplishments and her stance on the issues. Lets try something new.
This clip shows several high profile republicans defending Sarah Palin, and then shows other clips where they’re completely contradicting themselves… it’s worth taking a look at.
And in the end, Dick Morris talks about this sexism issue- definitely watch the video until that point. I especially like the line “retreats behind the apron strings.”
Yes it’s the daily show, so obviously biased to the left, but it’s their own words!
Laura in Minneapolis
christopher,
i do agree with you. for somebody who is not going to vote “little steven” has an awful lot to spout about how it should be done and why…..maybe we should ignore his opinion since it could not be more irrelevant to the discussion.
@ Dwight
This is getting off topic, this is about Palin, not Obama. Lots of people work lower paying jobs than they could have gotten, it doesn’t qualify them to be President though.
Theres the link Laura 🙂 Thanks!
brett,
i would vote for anyone but a ticket that has caribuo-barbie on it…….
@Steve –
The point is, if you don’t vote, you silence yourself at the most important place, and all of your commenting into the blogosphere is for naught. My father in law always wants to talk politics, always wants to rag and rage on this politician or that decision, but has never cast a vote in his life. To me, this is tantamount to refusing to put your money where your mouth is – and the same goes for you.
Your opinions take up more column space than anyone else’s, yet you don’t trouble yourself enough to bother to cast a vote. You’re screaming into an empty box, fella, and your opinions, absent the simple action of backing those up at the polls, ring empty for these ears.
@Dwight
I had no clue that hunting made a woman appear sexy! hahaha That is far from the truth. Have you ever been hunting? It’s not vanity sport. The fact that Sarah Palin enjoys and appreciates the outdoors, isn’t prissy, and doesn’t think she is too good to enjoy some things that other “regular” people do as well should be a positive instead of a negative. I guess that’s using her feminine wiles to brainwash men and get their votes while they are mesmerized by her beauty! haha 🙂
Jens, please stop the personal attacks.
Sexism . . . or evaluation
Is it sexist to compare a candidate who has a newborn with Down Syndrome and a teenage daughter who is pregnant with a potential candidate whose children are adults and require less parental attention? Or is it an evaluation of the potential for additional stress and distraction added to an already psychologically challenging situation.
Unlike many people, I would ask these questions regardless of the parent-candidate being male or female as parenting is the duty of both parents.
In the case of Governor Palin, I would personally be delighted for her husband to come forth ans say, if she is elected Vice President, he would become a stay at home dad. Or satisfied if Governor Palin would simply admit it is a challenging family situation and that her family might seeking qualified assitance as they get accustomed to the actual needs of their children.
The appropriate response is not to say children are off-limits, but to put forth a response that assures the voters that these very challenging family issues will not be overwhelming stressors or distractions to the proper fulfillment of being Vice President, a role that has been drastically redefined with many more responsibilities and duties by the Bush/Cheney administration.
@Christopher
I’m posting about the topic at hand, not patting other posteres on the back, or talking about “caribuo-barbie ” tickets. Please get back to the Palin issue and nother about me not voting, and how you think that means I have no right to speak anymore if I do that. This is about Sarah Palin and sexism.
steve,
you attck everybody else here on the blog in one or the other way. you may do it indirectly, and i chose to do it directly, which i think is a more honest, but admittingly blunt way.
I think the media has been a little sexist with female politicians. But at the same time, can we not criticize them at all? I don’t think Palin is a good candidate, but that has nothing to do with her being a woman.
Sara
Evanston, IL
Jens, I attack nobody. I state my opinions. Personal attacks violate the rules, and if you make personal attacks, your posts will be erased. Attack someone’s argument, but not them personally.
steve,
common “the hotest VP from the coldest state”. heck caribuo-barie is a comliment compared to that….
what is the next trick the republicans are going to come-up with, a deep cut neckline and a push-up bra. in there own admission they will make this election on personality RATHER than facts, because they would lose on facts, since they do not know what a fact is…..they know lies though pretty well.
@ Steve
I have to agree with you (re: your comment to colleen about Palin being an “embarrassment”). Palin isn’t the embarrassment at all. McCain’s choice of Palin is the embarrassment. It showed the independents that he thinks he can make this about sex instead of about issues.
steve,
all i said is that i agree with christopher. you have strong opinions about these elections but you do not vote. kind of contradictory, right.
still whom would you want in the white house. still no answer, a bit like the republicans then……a lot of opinions but no practical solution. i hope you do not feel this as a personal attck.
Steve,
Sometimes I think you just hang out here reading everything and looking for each and every opportunity to pounce and ridicule people’s opinions. Often you aren’t reading them carefully enough and you assume a great deal that isn’t said.
Colleen I agree with you and as I said I was embarrassed too…and Steve, neither Colleen or I said or suggested we were embarrassed by their political views. I was embarrassed by the low-brow tone, the ugly, grimy, and unhelpful lets-stick-em-where-it-hurts kind of approach. They spent the night like they were a bunch of frat guys in a bar discussing how lame a competing frat is.
By the way for anyone who is interested – Palin is touted as bucking the lobbyists. However – as mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to
Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million.
In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in
special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the
nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge
from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that
opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a “bridge to
nowhere.”
Yes I got that information from a partisan source but either it’s true or it isn’t.
@ Laura in Minneapolis
Re “The Daily Show
I don’t think that show is “left”. I really feel its the most unbiased “news” shows on U.S. television. They make a point to poke at both sides equally.
-Anthony, LA, CA
YES or NO. Sen. Palins is neither sexist nor unsexist but she is just wanting to make a history for herself $ all women in Washingtone DC. So Sen. Palins is also a MCAINEs tactics uses to reverses OBAMA policies in U.S so that he can bringdown our man which just want to make history for himself and all black people in America and abroad.
Colleen~
Good point about John Edwards. Pity about him. I understand that The National Enquirer is going to release a juicy story about Palin having an extramarital affair. McCain tried to enjoin them from doing it. Unfortunately for him , they vet their stories a lot better than he vetted his veep choice.
Anthony ~
I agree. Both sides are subject to being made fun of on the Daily Show.
keith,
here a further one
PALIN: “The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars.”
THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama’s plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain’s plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.
Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.
He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.
@ Steve
Her own party has made this sexist. They had BUTTONS printed out with the slogan “the hottest VP from the coldest state” that they proudly wore during Palin’s speech last night. I’m not criticizing her as a woman I am criticizing her as a VP candidate for the USA. So, keep using fear tactics, but it doesn’t work with me.
Of course there is sexism in politics. But, it is better today than in 1984 when Geraldine Ferrarro was on the Democrat ticket. I personally feel pandered to just because I am a woman does not mean that I identify with Sarah Palin in any way shape or form. The Republican could have nominated a stronger Republican woman for VP such as Kay Bailey Hutchinson of Texas.
Anthony,
I agree with you a hundred percent. I laughed myself silly last week while my girlfriend – a liberal – was LIVID about his jokes on the Dems. This week, we’re both laughing
Jack ~
I could care less if she had an affair except that she preaches “family values” and is complete hypocrisy. I care about what these people plan to do in office. Forget character assassination of the opponent. Let’s get some substance because you clearly don’t have any if the only thing you can do is crack jokes about the competition. Are we in grade school in this country?
@ Jessica
Is it sexist when women call themselves “hot”?
I think the media’s response to Palen is sexist with regard to her family and that sort of thing, but we have to remember that Hillary Clinton was not necessarily treated that way simply for being a woman. I think what is happening is that John McCain’s choice was sexist because he though he could choose ANY woman and use her to gain more votes from disappointed Hillary supporters, and those who see through his scheme are doing all that they can to discredit her because we don’t want McCain to be sucessful in his sexist attempt to win the female vote. I don’t think though that having kids makes a woman incapable of being sucessful in office. I think we ought to be attacking McCain and not Palen, and Remember this is not Obama vs. Palen, it is Obama vs. McCain.
RE: The guy said, oh, so he’s officially president now?
————————————————————————————————
——– Sadly, this sums up the vast majority of Americans, whether they vote or not. That would include the multitude of mistruths and shaky logic I see on these thread.
RE Sexism: Ms Palin doesn’t give a fig who is sexist. She’s got her rights and means to use them.
RE Qualifications: Constitutional qualifications are minimal, and she meets them. What the usual suspects actually mean is code for ranking political insiders, no different than the way crooks rank each other.
steve,
what about ridicule, kind of personal as well isn’t it?
Jennifer,
First thing my security gaurd friend at work said when it came up was , “yu are just worried cause she carries a gun and that makes her HOT.”
I have to admit myself that I think Agelina is pretty homely until you strap a couple of 45’s on her side.
Guess you have not been out hunting with a bunch of dudes when there is a woman present. Guns and testaserone goes hand and hand,
Off to waste tax payers dollars, will be listening to this one.
@ Katharina in Ghent
Exactly, it is absolutely foreseeable that she will have to step into the role of president. She needs to be able to hold up to the scrutiny of the public and with everything we have learned of her, she is an abysmal choice for VP of the US much less President.
If she wasn’t a woman, she would never have been nominated with such little experience. A man with her experience nominated for VP would be a complete joke, just like Sarah Palin.
There has been a variety of responses to Sarah Palin. Some are valid questions regarding her political stance. Some are questions about her as a person.
I feel that it is perfectly acceptable to point out that Sarah Palin’s political stance against sex education in schools failed in her own home. I also think that it is a healthy exercise of politics to look up potentially controversial ties that she may have had with big business or controversial political figures and movements.
I do *not* think it acceptable at all to question Sarah Palin’s ability to balance family and work life. Were Tod Palin to be the VP choice and not Sarah, the question would never have been raised. *That* is sexist.
plus another really interessting point was and is the over-proportional representation of minorities on the RNC floor. jeeze, we white males are just so under-represented in this country…..
No. Sara Palin is a perfect example of the self-subjugating woman. Mrs. Palin and others should realize what is sexist is the divisive nature of her nomination. The Republican Party is clearly hoping that she will attract disenfranchised Hillary supporters based on the fact that she is a woman. This kind of thinking degrades women and is sexist. Fair criticism of her lack of experience and poor judgment is not.
I watched Palin last night. It was surreal, you just don’t expect the face of evil to be pretty. She’s a Grover Norquist, Karl Rove, Jack Abramoff, Bush/Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, Conservative Republican. She studied Poli Sci in college and she has become a professional prevaricating politician.
She advocates all of the policies that over the last seven years have brought us never-ending war, the biggest government in history, the biggest debt in history, the most big government interference in peoples private lives, the largest redistribution of wealth from the lower classes to the already wealthy, on and on.
The brazen dissembling was astounding and amazing. Just amazing.
Chrissy ~
I think people have more concern because she very well could be the President if McCain dies. Life expectancy of men is age 71 and then add to that his health problems. We have already seen the abuse of power Bush has used in his administration based on personal beliefs. Given Palin’s record I have no doubt she would do the same.
Sarah Palin would never have been selected to run for vice president if she were a man, so your supposition is moot.
@jessica,
the loony right wing nutjobs love her…. all i can hope for is that she is a better shoot than chenny……
Yes, I think the scrutiny Ms. Palin has undergone so far is sexist. She would not be asked such questions if she were a man.
BUT, she also would not have been chosen as McCain’s running mate if she were a man. Isn’t that sexist? She chose her because she is a young and charming female— the perfect opposite of himself.
Please…. People have commented on Obamas dress and his looks… aesthetic comments aren’t reserved for male or female only. Those type comments apply to all people. Don’t be so quick to jump on the ‘sexism’ bandwagon, caller.
I watched that speech of Palin’s online Not only did she have to have the big words spelled out for her phonetically, but she stumbled over them. Her pauses were contrived, her expressions were smug, and her use of irony was a disaster. Then there’s her continued use of the “Bridge to Nowhere,” “thanks but no thanks,” bit, which she’s been proven to have lied about (why does she keep bringing this up? Does she think we’ve never heard of GOOGLE?)
@ Steve
I don’t think it’s wrong to state your opinion about things. I do urge you to go and vote because everyone should have their say. Your vote counts. As my mom says, you shouldn’t whine if you don’t vote 😉
@Jens
I think that you have been paying more attention to what Sarah Palin looks like than listening to the words coming out of her mouth. And, comparing her to barbie is sexist. 🙂
——
I believe posting on here should be about posting opinions, talking with people from other places, and maybe getting a different p.o.v. and insight that I hadn’t thought of. Noone is broadening their views by simply discounting everything other people say without looking at the posts with an open mind. At times when I post on here I feel like I am being really hateful which goes against my personality. The reason is because instead of talking and going over the facts, people just want to discount as if they have all the “right” answers. Why not try to just learn from other people’s opinions. If you don’t agree, that’s ok…..but everyone should be allowed to voice their opinions. I don’t enjoy having to spend time defending my opinions when everyone should be allowed to express them here without having to go into defensive mode.
Is the response to Sarah Palin sexist?
Yes, the media in nearly every country is male dominated and pose sexist questions about her family and ability.
People can relate to Sarah Palin BECAUSE she is so ordinary and faces the same kind of problems they themselves face(her Downs syndrome kid and her teenage pregnant daughter will endear her even more to the voters).
Yes her gender is more of an issue than her political views.
Women in politics in South Asia ,tend to come from political families .
Some times women can be a womans worst enemy,there were a lot of “catty” remarks by female bloggers on the WHYS September 4th talking points,it seemed they wanted to undermine Palin due envy or jealousy.
When you enter Federal politics, you must be prepared to have every facet of your life placed under a microscope and attacked: every smoke, drink, one-night-stand, mis-step, mis-cue and drug you have ever, ever done. This is the way Washington politics works.
So how come when Mr. Obama or McCain get their motives, personal life and opinions criticized it’s par for the course, but when Mrs. Palin gets the same treatment it’s sexist?
Sexism aside, Palin has a Bachelors Degree in Journalism from University of Idaho. Vs.
Obama’s Columbia Political Science and Harvard Law? How can that not be relevant in this “qualified” debate.
way to go Gretchen!!
i seem to recall the radical right criticizing Chelsea when she was young for being ugly. why is it okay for them to attack a democrat’s family?
and Hillary, she gets ripped on all the time for her “pants suits” and for being tough and for her tone of voice. when was the last time a man was ridiculed for a bad tie or suit? and i can’t stand Hillary anymore.
please sexism goes around and if i recall mcsame is against fair wages for women. who cares what the token VP thinks she is not the one running the show. actually rove and his buddies are. mcsame is also a puppet like bush.
I that the entire situation is sexist if you think about the idea that if had been a man with similar experience if they would have even been on a shortlist of VP candidates.
I would think the answer would probably be no. If this were true then wouldn’t John McCains selection of Sarah Palin be just as sexist. It seems to me that it is sexist to use a female politician as a tool to try to gain the vote of disenfranchised Clinton supporters.
According to abc.com:
“Palin, in a months-old video interview with Newsweek magazine that has been posted on youTube, once said of Hillary Clinton’s sexism complaints: “I think she does herself a disservice to even mention it, really. I mean, you’ve got to plow through that.” Palin also said in the Newsweek interview “when I hear a statement like that coming from a woman candidate with any kind of perceived whine about that excess criticism or, you know, maybe a sharper microscope put on her, I think ‘Man, that doesn’t do us any good — women in politics, women in general trying to progress this country'”.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Conventions/Story?id=5718292&page=2
Vanessa,
I agree with you. Palin also has shown the same kinds of cronyism, a total disrespect for the first amendment (when she fired the librarian) and the same kinds of vindictive behavior as George Bush (he took us to war to avenge the threats to his father, she fired an innocent man who wouldn’t fire her ex-brother-in-law). People have made some comments about her motherhood and so forth, but that’s really never been the central objection to her as Vice President.
@ Leland
So the school that someone attends should matter the most? Perhaps we should use the US News Rankings of all colleges, and everyone who goes to a “lower” ranking school should be denied employment and political positions due to lack of pedigree. This is America, not the House of Lords. Garbage like that only matters in the legal profession. Am I better than you because I went to NYU? Is this what it’s about?
Jennifer, i love your last paragraph. It should be in the rules of the blog – in fact i thought it was. Nice one, all posters please read and digest.
all best Mark
To bad we can’t have an election like an orchestra tryout, when they do it behind a screen so the gender and race won’t effect it.
If there was a way to do so, I don’t think any of these people (running for pres or V.P.) would be where they are.
-Anthony, LA, CA
@ Gretchen
You said it!
Gender should not be the issue. Experience, where they stand on issues and ethics are what is important. The question that I ask is what does Sarah Palin bring to the table?
@ Jeff in Cleveland Heights, Bret, and Will in Canada
Brovo! Women are as strong as men. Since Palin choose to enter the national arena of politics, then she has to be prepared take as much as she dishes. The public has an obligation to criticize and scrutinize every aspect of their lives and how it will influence decision he or she make that will impact million of people at home and around the world.
Sexism? Hardly. What great progress that the Republicans nominate a totally unqualified women just as readily as they nominated totally unqualified men–Quayle, the current incumbent. Someday they may even nominate a woman as venal as Cheney.
Women are different to men. For whatever reason they are less egotistical and better consensus builders. The current political climate in the US would benefit from these feminine traits.
Leland,
I know something about the University of Idaho. It’s THE party school in the Northwest. If The National Enquirer is already preparing to release a story about Sarah Palin having an extramarital affair in Alaska, I can hardly wait to see what comes out of a cursory investigation into her academic life.
Should terminologies be created to distinguish between different levels of racism, sexism. et cetera? I’m thinking of my former step grandfather who was the head of White Knights of the Christian Crusade in a portion of California, i.e., the KKK. I mean really bad racists HATE others. They don’t want others to move away, they want them dead. It is psychopathic.
@Steve –
If, as you say, you’re only “posting about the topic at hand, not patting other posteres on the back,” and taht you’re just commenting about “Sarah Palin and sexism”, I challenge you to read your posts, excise all commentary that is unrelated to sexism, and see what you have left.
Either that, or just man up, and VOTE this year.
@ Jack
The National Enquirier is a tabloid. They also have stories about alien abductions. Now you want to have her academic record examined? I’m sorry you don’t approve of her choice of school. I’m sure all the alumni of that school would be happy to know you don’t hold the school in any regard.
Steve,
It doesn’t matter which school you go to – I agree with you on that. George W. Bush was, after all, a Yale Business graduate. He had two failed businesses and his political career speaks for itself. But as I told Leland, U of I is a party school. It will be fun to see what turns up over the coming months.
@ Gretchen Eldrich
You’re right! Choosing a woman because of her gender is sexist. If not, McCain would have chosen a women who is qualified for the position and has substantive experience.
Hillary’s supporters will not turn their backs on everything they believe in and have fought for.
Obama picked someone who complimented his candidacy,but was not a political threat.
McCain picked a VP candidate who “completed him “politically and enhanced his candidacy by picking someone who could also become President. @Venessa
Thats right McCain looks frail ,he could step down after a year or two and Palin could become President and still fight a couple more elections to become the longest surving President ever.!!!!
Camille Paglia was right in her comparison with Hillary Clinton.
jennifer,
unlike the vast majority, i do not find her in the least bit attractive. purely visually she does absolutly nothing for me, but that is neiter here or there. i find her political background and the issues she stands for absolutly repolsive and yes i am mockink here with my barbie coments. by the way i find barbie and the likes equaly unattractive. i compare her to barbie, because she represents the same plastic consumerism, faux-motals and happy go-lucky-let’s-bomb-nations-in-the-name-of-god simple disgusting. as an atheist i had the privilage of suffering under a bible-bashing conservative, who started wars in the name of god and believes that the world is 5000 years old. i certainly hope that we will have a change, since this country deserves better than having narrowmind religiouse zealots running it.
@ Anthony and the Daily Show
Haha, i suppose that’s true. I just know that a lot of conservatives i know never watch it because they hate “the constant bias.”
I think it’s hilarious. Last night was a particularly good one.
And, no problem brett- I thought people would find it interesting here.
Laura in Minneapolis
Why do people keep saying she’s in charge of such a big state? size wise, correct, population wise it’s 47th, FACT. And her specialty is oil ? give me a break, I suppose since GW bush controls the entire country everything becomes his specialty …. along with historic blunders.
Conservative values include the nuclear family, the stay at home mom, anti sex education in schools. If she is the represent them then she should be able to defend these policies. This is not sexist.
Who is this woman (on air, the democrat) claiming that everyone is baised towards Palin and her credentials and that credentials wouldn’t be as big of an issue if she were male…
Has she had her head in the sand throughout this entire race? Obama? McCain? Have their credentials not been the third most important thing for Americans? (Behind Race and Age of course lol)
Forget about the sexist angle and look at the woman’s beliefs and political baggage! Put a wig and bra on Cheney and/or Karl Rove, and you’ve got Palin.
i think that women in politics is great. i think they equal to men in every way. however i do think that children need a parent at home with them. especially when they are so young. so what i’d rather hear from palin isn’t how she’s going to handle being a mother and vice president, but whether or not her husband intends to take over the primary parenting role in the home?
Your guest suggests that if Sarah Palin was a man, she would not have to endure such media criticism. I believe that if Sarah Palin was a man, he never would have been nominated with such weak credentials to the position in the first place.
@ Steve,
The Enquirer wasn’t wrong about John Edwards and they haven’t been successfully sued since Carol Burnett nailed them in the eighties. They vet their stories better than McCain vetted his VP pick. Whine about it if you like, but once the story breaks, the mainstream media will investigate it. True or false, it will do damage.
Talk about drinking the Kool-Aide
@ steve
“This is America, not the House of Lords.”
now now, ridiculing an entire country…….
@ Sue B
Put a wig and bra on Obama and you have Hillary Clinton. So?
if she was a man she would have never ever even been on the list… it is very very sexist of the reds to pick her, not us for asking about her qualifications. she most unqualified. someone said she has foreign policy experience because it is close to Russia!! oh my, how scary is that? oh and Alaska is a big state? really since when does land mass vote?
they think we are all brainless twits who will believe their lies. she is a radical right.
@ steve
I’m not saying it should matter most, but I think it does matter. US News & World Report aside, one would expect that Obama’s education will serve him better than Palin’s education would serve her in the White House. This should be something we discuss. I know my current employer was very interested in what my degree was in and where I recieved it and I am not in the legal profession or in the House of Lords.
I think people are missing the point with criticism of Palin’s experience… It’s not just her inexperience, but also the lack of time Mc Cain has given us to evaluate her. Obama may be inexperienced, but we have had 4 years to evaluate him and understand how he thinks. I cannot decide to vote for Palin/McCain after 1 speech.. and 2 months is not enough time either. I have to know how she thinks to vote for her.
Virtually all the accusations hurled by Palin and the McCain camp against Obama on “experience” are fraudulent – isn’t that more important than arguing over whether the media’s response to her is “sexist”? If a candidate says _nothing_ about the actual issues in her acceptance speech, and only bashes the opponent (using falsehoods), what does it matter what sex she is?
As an American we have never had a woman reach this high of an office. Whatever comes up in the media is what our country has to go through to move through the sexism that may arise. If Hillary Clinton had mad the nomination she too would have had critism about being a woman, still.
Where we are at as a country is exactly where we need to be to evolve. How about doing a show about what the world might look like if she is to be president or vice if McCain dies.
You are supporting this issue, instead of the main issues. Exactly what the Republicans want.
Jared B.
San Francisco, CA, USA
This election should not be about gender but, who can best serve the United States. Yes, serve…the President and VP work for the people of the United States. I don’t care if you are a man or woman, white, red, green or puple with spots. What are you going to do and how are going to react? Palin has a reputation for holding a grugde and abusing her power that concerns me more than her personal views on religion and family.
@ Sue:
Haha, yea but they’d loose voters then due to the rights intolerance of cross dressing and homosexuality.
steve,
but a wig, a bra and lipstick on a pig and you have sahra palin….
From Portland, OR
How can the guest claim that Sarah Palin does not cross her politics with her personal life / views. She attempted to fire the librarian who opposed her book censoring, she is for abstinence only education, she supports teaching creationism in public schools, she is against a woman’s right to control her own body… …how many more backward ideas does a politician need to try to integrate into their policies? She has 21 months of governorship and is already under 2 criminal investigations… …ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
@ Sue and steve
She’s not even close to Cheney with all his connections, hidden agendas, and EVIL!!! EVIL I SAY!!!
My fav quote from Cheney is still “SO”. HAHAHAHAHA, LOL!!!!! That guys have some moxy!!!
-Anthony, LA, CA
Who is this Dem feminists defending her qulifications? Is she off her rocker? Hannan is brilliant and hit the nail on the head. The family argument is bogus but Palin is not so well qualified, she does nothing for real wornen’s issues, and there are many legitimate concerns about her behavior while in the executive office. Many of her views make a minority of fundamentalist christians happy but are not in line with mainstream america.
While I agree with a lot of what Hanan Ashwari is stating, she cannot really comment on tokenism until the President chooses the cabinet. Many recent presidents have picked lots of female cabinet members. The current secertary of State is female. As for women in congress, well, you can’t force people to vote for someone, that’s undemocratic, so if the public say only wants 20% female congress, that’s democracy. if People wanted more, they would vote for more. You can’t force people to vote for who they don’t want.
@ Jens
Insulting Sarah palin doesn’t in any way contribute to this discussion.
YES. The speeches Sen. Palins uses in her first appearance in the convention were quites sexist although she never mention them categorically and are very similar to what women in my country do uses, which stated that “WOMEN DIES TOGETHER IN THE TIME OF TROUBLES”.So according to my individual understanding, Fmr Sen. Hillary, Sen.Palins $ women from my country are all sexists if not.
I am thrilled with Gov. Palin….and yes it is very sexist to ask if she should be running given that she has a family………would you ever ask this of a man? I think the Democratic Party has been grasping at straws since she has been announced as the VP pick.
I find it fascinating that, overall the women posting here don’t seem to be buying the sexism angle. So who’s the target of these accusations? Men?
Hi All,
When the question is posed this way- Is the response to Sarah Palin sexist? It suggest that whoever came up with the question has bought into or is in the process of swallowing rightwing propaganda. The fact of the matter is rightwing politicians and their supports and Republicans in particular play dirty, They’re getting a taste of their own medicine because John McCain, McCained (panicked) and chose the WOEFULLY INADEQUATED Sarah Palin in a desperate attempt to win over disaffectioned Hillary voters.
The Hillary voters are not impressed and the Republicans are hopping mad as hell! at the press for not salivating over their picture perfect choice. It is refreshing to see that not all members of the press have lost their integrity. And that they can still muster the courage to call a spade a spade. Choosing Saraha Palin as the person best suited to be a heart beat away from the presidency of the only super power – the USA is a dereliction of duty, gross misconduct and a abuse of authority and power by John McCain and his lackeys and surrogates.
America finally lost it pretense at respectabilty when Bush/Cheney was elected, now it has become the laughingstock of the intelligent world!
What sexism?! Give me a break!
CarlosKing, Kingston- Jamaica.
Would anyone vote for Sarah Palin for President? Her scandals and missteps as mayor and governor would never allow her to make it through the primaries. With McCain being 72 years old and a cancer survivor, Palin would likely become President of the US. This notion is absolutely absurd.
McCain’s choice is the embarrassment here. I supported Hillary and McCain could have had my vote, but his pandering to women and Christian fundamentalists has really energized me to go with Obama.
The left is not quaking with fear–we are laughing at the audacity and hypocrisy of this move. The Republicans are putting on a good show pretending to be behind her but the pass fell short and in the coming weeks we are already seeing the fallout of this blunder. The Republicans are freaking out because they thought the media would fall over themselves because he “picked a woman” and instead they are doing their job and trying to help us understand who Palin is and where she stands.
When someone is trotted out as the show pony for “family values” and “mother of five” then it is perfectly acceptable to scrutinize her family values.
steve,
but you can only vote for who is on the ballot…
Although I do not support Sarah Palin or the GOP, I do believe questioning her ability to be VP because of her maternal obligations is sexist. HOWEVER, one has to raise the issue of how women are automatically assumed to be the default and more capable caregiver in our courts and society. In custody battles, women are frequently given preference, all other factor being equal. Does this not say our society views women as the more important caregiver? Perhaps this perception leads to these kinds of questions that Sarah Palin is being asked.
steve,
insulting barack obama does not contribute either…i am merley shadowing your tacktics
In Iran there are some women politicians in the house of representatives that have the most anti-women rights views. Don’t assume the fact that she is a woman is going to do ANY good for women’s rights and concerns, she seems to be completely oblivious to gender equality, other than the fact that she has to balance work and family!
As far as policy goes, she will make sure to put in policies that will set back women’s movement. What is sad is that feminists like me will still have to defend her when progressive people attack her in sexist ways, just like they did with Hillary. Now feminists are being put in a very difficult position, campaigning for Obama (and Biden) who will be good for women’s movement and at the same time defending Palin who will be a disaster for women all around the world!!
Palin is a good pick for Conservative Republicans but Conservative Republicanism is a bad choice for humanity.
@ original question
No, the response to Sarah Palin is not sexist, the response is unreasonable. Sexism is a powerful word, as well as a harsh accusation, and is not appropriate in this context.
@JACK… yes ROVE and his buddies
You know, for how respectfully Obama himself has handled Palin, she has shown disrespect in this facade that she’s more qualified than he to be president. They are both equally qualified and unqualified. He started on the higher ground with her, and she has rolled up her sleeves and stuck her hands in the mud. I don’t care if she is a woman. I care if she’s honest, and doesn’t abuse her given power … which could be the case, and the fact that her daughters pregnancy and this sexiest issue are overshadowing that, at this time, just proves that we tend to pander to ignorance rather than reason and intellect as a society.
She’s the only one facing adverse conditions in this election? sexism?
If people don’t think Obama is suffering from racism is not equal to or possibly even greater than the sexism she is receiving is absurd. I do think there are sexual biases facing her. It does need to be addressed but, it should NOT overshadow the real issue, the election.
If questioning Sara Palin’s qualification is sexist and would not be done if she were a man, then is she more qualified than Obama or is questioning his qualifications racist?
I am sure that the McCain/Palin campaign expected some scrutiny and took the press’ liberal bias into consideration. I am not sure they expected this much vitriolic response. I do believe sexism is part of it.
Palin is experienced, yes, but limitedly. What we know of her record is very promising overall, (but who knows what would have been given more time in office). Obama, also has very limited experience. I wish both had more.
With what we do know at this time, I am ready to support her as VP candidate. She really does have more concrete experience than Obama. She seems to make decisions based on values and needs rather than party affiliation. That is what I look for in a candidate. The same can not be said about Obama.
@ jens
Please show me where I insulted Barack Obama. You compared Palin to a pig, I said Obama is like a celibrity/rockstar.
Please, back up your assertion, then get back on topic. Not agreeing with someone’s views is not insulting them. calling them a pig IS insulting them.
@ Jens RE: steve
I don’t think he was insulting Obama. He was stating that obama is basically Hillary (politically). The only difference is that he is a black man.
-Anthony, LA, CA
Brett,
Camille Paglia – Is a well-known (at least I thought) intellectual. I have seen her speaking several times. Sometimes, I think she is more controversy then substance. Or at least her views seem more showy or provocative for the sake of being provocative, then she admits. Although, she did insult me once, because of a shirt I was wearing—so perhaps I am not being objective either.
@ Anthony
Oh that’s what Jens was refering to? Yes, exactly. Obama and Hillary clinton are exactly the same politically. there is no difference between the two other than their physical appearance.
I agree that in general, perhaps due to biological nature (women give birth & nurture life), women regard security from different view points (basic & social safety from harm & sickness, future security via education and livelihood) whereas men think security through political and military powers as warriers or hunters.
maybe this affects the different styles between male and female leaders?
Take her sex out of the equation. Palin has proven, by firing the commissioner for not firing her former brother-in-law, proves Plain has abused her position of power. What would happen if something happened to McCain and Palin became President. Who could fathom the amount of abuse she would attempt to get away with if she were President. I don’t trust Palin.
When a politician ‘showboats and touts’ their family, it is only natural for that family and the relationship between family/job/politician be examined by the people. Being the vice president does not carry similar demands as many other occupations. It may strain her ability to parent (for a man or a woman for that matter). The difference here as I see it, is that she is both touting her motherhood, and saying that she can fully commit herself to the job. There will be a sacrifice on one area, she needs to admit that.
@tony and steve,
putting a wig and a bra on a black man is not insulting???
at least i used a commonly used proverb, and the republicans are doing exactly that with Mrs Palin. the choice is absolutly horrible and now they are trying to dress it up as the absolut blessing for this country. give me a break.
It’s not that a woman with five children cannot be VP. That IS sexist. Of course a woman can!
The problem is Sarah Palin has made strong families, as part of her right-wing Christian fundamentalism, one of her political positions. At the same time, she appears to be deserting her own family for her personal ambitions. It is hard to imagine this is good for her family given the current needs of her children. Add to this, her lack of qualifications to be VP and the criticisms of her are justified.
It is sexist to select a token woman because of her gender. McCain has both a trophy wife and now a trophy VP running mate. THAT is sexism.
@ Steve
This is a presidential race and the VP needs to be scrutinized as much as the president, since he/she is a heart beat away. When the GOP use her “hotness” as a qualifier for the position of VP, it is sexist.
@ Jens
Sooooo true!
@ Dwight From Cleveland
“I have to admit myself that I think Angelina is pretty homely until you strap a couple of 45’s on her side. ”
LOL–you have left me speechless. 😛
I may not agree with Sarah Palin’s views but, it is wrong to call her a backwoods barbie or the VP stewardess. Judge her on what she has done and what she stands for not for her gender or how she looks. I am a working mother and I know that I juggle my responsiblities.
The Republican Party and Sarah Palin are using her family to demonstrate her family values. That opens the door for the questions about her family and how that relates to the role of VP.
@ Jens
I was responding to someone else’s comment about wig and a bra. I was just saying that besides whta they look like Obama/Clinton are politically exactly the same. You compared Palin to a farm animal. I compared Obama to another politician, which I suppose, is probably even worse.
Is putting a wig and bra on a white man not as insulting?
@ Jens
Why did you have to add the black part, can’t he just be a man. I think thats insulting 🙂
-Anthony, LA, CA
I am singularly unconcerned with the Palin family’s childcare situation. I’m quite sure they can afford whatever help they need unlike most of the rest of us.
I am highly concerned with the rise of another extremist politician who does not “believe” in global warming.
It’s her policies and philosophies of governance which are the measure of her worth as a candidate.
of course, the remarks may be sexist (or may not be). We live in an imperfect world, and even though there have been much parroting of female right and discrimination, certain facts can never be changed. You may call that being stereotyped, gender biased, etc. For example, a mother breast feed her baby, and only she’s capable of that. Is it gender discrimination then, because a man can never do that, because the burden of breast feeding is down onto the mother? Huh? There’re plenty more of such examples.. Let’s not forget that the world needs both genders, that’s why we’re here.. We each have our own advantages to serve the world. There will inevitably be some discrimination faced by both sexes, whether we’re conscious about it or not.. Of course, extreme gender biasness should be condemned.. But for trivial matters, let’s mind about other major problems like poverty, global warming. Towards better understanding between male and female..
When a politician offers herself up as “a typical hockey Mom” with a family of five (arguably a full time job) it is not sexist to then inquire how it is she would handle those duties along with the enormous responsibility of being VP. I would fully expect the same sort of question of Obama if he was presenting himself as a typical “soccer Dad”.
This isn’t a question of sexism as much a question of opportunistic political posturing and playing the sexism card gratituously because her self portrayal is disingenuous.
Jim from Cleveland Ohio
Palin tried to fire a public librarian because the librarian would not remove or ban certain books Palin did not like.
Palin tried to fire state employees in retribution for a family feud.
This is a terrible record, for a man or a woman, who would be President of United States.
@Steve-
As you said, “You can’t force people to vote for who they don’t want.”
The suggested Steve-corollary: “You can’t force people to vote, but if they don’t, they must have nothing to say worth listening to.”
@ Jennifer
Interesting. I think it would be great if you could have the same open mind that you ask others to have. Like you said “why not try to just learn from other people’s opinions.”
I am horrified that the main response to Sarah Palin is that it’s fantastic that she’s a mother a ‘hockey mom’, with much less focus on her performance in the political jobs she’s held. I heard in the media recently that this is a prerequisite for being a candidate (particularly a Republican one) and that – for example – Condoleeza Rice would never be successful if she ran for president as she is single and not a mother and has never been married. It is appalling that this is true. It seems to me while women in politics are judged on their biology rather than their ideas, intellect and ability to do the job they’re applying for, then we won’t have equality. Shame on Sarah Palin for playing up to this sexism by going on and on about her status as a mother, rather than her skill as a politician.
Two words: Dan Quayle.
“Governor” Sarah Palin is no more qualified to be the the Vice President (and perhaps Commander in Chief) than “Senator” Dan Quayle was in 1988.
Strange how gender was never an issue when George Bush chose Dan Quayle to be his running mate. The media was free to criticize his inexperience quite safely.
I would also like to point out that Barack Obama has EARNED America’s trust as a presidential candidate. He has all but silenced the criticism that he is too inexperienced to lead. Governor Palin, while perhaps capable, has not yet earned such trust. To say that there are parallels between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama is a bit of a stretch.
@ Joe
Interesting! Do you happen to have any links? I’d like to find out more about her “brat” like actions.
-Anthony, LA, CA
@tony and steve,
what the heck is wrong in stating obama’s colour, which is part of his identity, as much as white is part of my identity.
steve, you used the euphanisme and i just responded to it. yes it is equaly insulting to a white male, but you talked about obama……
@JohnP—those decisions she makes are based on HER values and HER needs. Just ask Trooper Wooten, for one.
@ SuperJesus
Thank you for your divine intervention and prospective on this critical issue. I will be a church this Sunday.
@ Chris
“The suggested Steve-corollary: “You can’t force people to vote, but if they don’t, they must have nothing to say worth listening to.”
I suppose that the people who refused to vote for saddam had nothing worth listening to either.
It’s interesting that McCain’s own personal story of his POW experience is brought out again and again to show the depth of his character – but when Palin’s personal story is used to question her own character, it’s considered sexist. If Hillary Clinton had given a speech and taken a 10 hour plane trip after her water broke during a high-risk pregnancy, you can bet that the right-wing pundits would use it as an example of her poor judgment. If she went back to work three days after giving birth to a premature special needs baby, the family values folks would have brought it up at every opportunity. And if Barack Obama had a pregnant 17-year old unmarried daughter, you can be assured that Rush Limbaugh would not leave it alone out of deference to her privacy. This is not a question of sexist double standards, but of political double standards.
I find many of the criticisms of Sarah Palin to be both sexist and elitist. She is from a small town, she is a mother, and she has views that are in line with much of rural America. She has been the governor of a large state, and the mayor of a small town. Nominating Sarah Palin as VP is no more patronizing towards women than nominating Joe Biden was patronizing towards people worried about Obama’s lack of experience. Sarah Palin arguably has more executive leadership experience than Senator Obama.
Sarah Palin is facing so much criticism because her values are conservative, and her roots are rural.
She is not a left wing feminist, she is a right wing feminist. She is proof that both women and men can be both good citizens and good parents. To say that a woman who is anti-abortion is not a feminist is ridiculous and hypocritical. Just because she doesn’t agree with left wing ideas of gender equality doesn’t mean she doesn’t support female rights.
I believe it is a normal reaction for the media to reflect actual public concern and differences in ideology.
So, whether it be fair or not, this is politics, not little league.
I am a mother of two and know how much time it actually takes everyday to care for my children. But, that is because I do not want to pay someone else to do it. (As well as I do not think anyone else could do the job a mother needs to do – the most important job in the world in my book.) I have also breastfeed my children till they were two. A scientifically proven, time tested method of bonding, and keeping children healthier throughout their life. Regular breastfeeding is not possible under stressful job. I am confused about the inconsistencies in the Rebublican party. How do the conservatives practice what they preach? Family values? Creationism? How can an educated person actually believe humans magically appeared on earth 2,000 years ago? Is it true Palin believes Creationism should be taught in public schools?
And is it true the Rebublican party wants to take away the right for a woman to abort under any circumstance?
I understand ideals are not always attainable, but politics are all about “Real Life” circumstances, how we can actually make the world a better place for our children!
We have a lot of global crisis at hand that needs a realistic approach.
Sustainability on this planet is priority. Health and well being cannot continue with mere band aides like drill, drill, drill. The promised $1200. check to every Alaskan will not solve out need to actual sustainable energy.
I see the Rebublicans as a group on a heavy fearful trip with just themselves on board.
@ Jens
Just so you know, some other poster started the euphamism about the wig and the bra…… Now let’s get back on topic
201 Sue B
September 4, 2008 at 6:31 pm Edit
Forget about the sexist angle and look at the woman’s beliefs and political baggage! Put a wig and bra on Cheney and/or Karl Rove, and you’ve got Palin.
Yes I stand by my post way up near the top. McCain coolly calculated that a woman would help lure Hillary voters. He barely knew who Palin was.
Even republicans are scratching their heads about this pick.
She has governing experience, of a tiny town, and lately a State with lower population than the small midwestern burg I live in. So frankly, my mayor has more executive experience than she has.
The reasons Palin was chosen were sexist and cynical. That she is also a right wing religious nutball, makes it even worse.
I don’t care how hard you hold your breath and pinch your nose, if you are a Hillary supporter, you can’t possibly get past the stench to vote for an anti-choice, anti-education, anti-middle class ticket, that promises to overturn abortion rights.
Oh and a homophobe. Forgot that part.
I’m not being sexist, if she was a man, I would still think she was unfit.
@ Jens
It’s just another reverse racist statement that keeps racism alive in America but making a line between black and white. You wouldn’t have put “white man” if referring to McCain.
-Anthony, LA, CA
questions of balancing work/family life have been posed to men. as i mentioned Edwards was questioned regarding his wife’s cancer. Joe Biden wasn’t going to take a position in office because his wife and child had been recently killed in a car accident. Personal lives are up for scrutiny in politics. Palin’s current life situation is very unique and that is why it is getting so much attention.
why dont we talk about the availablity of affordable childcare in the US for parents in poor areas making minimum wage!!?? these are the significant issues facing millions of women and men and children today.
Here’s a personal story that hasn’t gotten much attention…
Has anyone mentioned the fact that McCain cheated on his first wife who had been paralyzed in a car accident?? Thats how he got together with Cindy. So much for caring for people with special needs.
Some may say this is ancient history (and i dont disagree), but if so then let’s stop harping on his POW experience 40 years ago as a testament to his character.
I am a man, I think in this current world state, security comes from technological advance, such as Standford professors Yi Cui’s revolutionary nanowire lithium ion battery which, would increase the range of Tesla motors 100% electric car from 220 miles on one charge to 2200. I also think security comes from NOT invading other countries on false pretence for business opportunity. you should be able to defend yourself military, there should be no need to have invading force numbers. I also believe security comes from restructuring the failing education system prior to college in America. And lastly, I think Americans simply don’t care enough about everyday problems for everyday people.
Hurricanes, we care, we act.
Wars, we care, we act.
A CEO gets a 10 million dollar bonus while the company fails and thousands of employees suffer in numerous ways. We note it, but we don’t care, what can I do?
Bob lost his job, not my problem, I still have my job, that’s unfortunate. Honey, what’s for dinner?
We need to strengthen individuals so we as a whole are stronger.
@ tony,
unfortunatly this race has come down to race and sexisme and not policies….a stated the obviouse and in terms of mccain i would have said “old white man”.
we are definde by origin and race and there is abslolutly nothing wrong with it. what is wrong is to use and abuse this angle, we are all the same and my blood is as red as yours or anybody elses…
i would just bring back many of steve’s comments regarding obama, that he would not have made it if he was not black. now tell me who panders to race. me or him……
Why can’t we talk about the pregnant 17 year old daughter? I don’t understand why it’s off limits? I personally feel it is symptomatic of someone who is self obsessed that she was having baby number 5 when her teen daughter was getting ‘knocked up’. She was basically saying ‘Hey look at me I’m superwoman’ but apparently didn’t know that her own daughter was having inadequately protected sex. In sport, this is called ‘taking your eye off the ball.’ (No dubious pun intended.)
By endorsing her, the Republicans have said that teen pregnancy is just fine. What a message to give the world.
The message I take from this, is that the 20 years I spent putting 150% of myself, my time, energy, strength, emotion, love etc into raising my daughter to age 20 without getting pregnant, arrested, into rehab or a DUI, was a complete waste of my time and energy. Because, after all, teen pregnancy is really no big deal.
And we’re all OK with that?
@ Colleen
That is the double standards of the GOP and they hypocritical stance on “family values”.
Ms AIshrawi is completely correct. She knows that she is an equal.
This is the issue. Women’s confidence. Ms Palin is a breath of fresh air- and a worry for Obama. But THAT is equality. Equal competition. IN a class room being segragated is only the confidence issue- if women were brought up to feel equal – then the view from the US about women only schools would not be necessary. Sweden – well done!
And- why do you have to define yourself as a feminist? A woman/ man is a person who has/ has not abilities.
steve,
and yes you played along with it. take responsibility for your own actions. it’s not an excuse to say she said it first. you made the statment out of your free will….
yeah, let’s get back to the topiv.
and yes gretchen is right, the smell is unbearable.
Palin was not selected to appeal to women. She was selected to appeal to the working class men who are necessary for a win. She is pretty and supports a conservative religious agenda that legitimates male power.
Women who want a different world will not vote for her — but they are not the targets of the McCain ticket.
@ Jens
We are defined by race??? Well I’m hispanic, so after I watch corney T.V. shows in spanish, I’m gonna go eat some tacos after I cross the border on my donkey and listen to Mariachis! Oh wait, I don’t do ANY of that
(except for tacos, of how I love tacos!).
People that think like that are racist and don’t even know it.
-Anthony
Gretchen,
Did you see the YouTube Video with Chuck Todd, Mike Murphy and Peggy Noonan? Jesse Jackson on Fox News emasculating Obama made a fool of Jackson. “Open Mic Night at MSNBC,” as Noonan later called it, showed that the the intellectual talent of the GOP thinks McCain has lost his mind.
@ Steve
Seriously, dude. Your party’s in trouble and needs you hardcore. You should take your opinions to the voting booth – not that I mind reading them on WHYS. Things have just gotten critical for the Grand Old Party
@ Jens,
Your statements that “but a wig, a bra and lipstick on a pig and you have sahra palin…” (sic) and calling Sarah Palin a “caribuo-barbie” (sic) are sexist.
@ Jens
No. Sue B compared a politician with a politician, and so did I. You compared a politician with a farm animal. it’s not the same.
How about the fact that the Republican Party has a mapped out plan for dominance.
That they do not actually believe what they are preaching, but simply play to the under-educated, fearful, and innocent in order to gain power, maintain fear, and hold onto corporate profits.
@ toney,
where the hell are you coming from….we are defind by race, it’s that simple. i am a white guy, who is as likely to eat a taco as you are.
you look at me and see clearly that i am white. i look at you and see you are hispanic. that does not mean i have a preconception of you watching corny spanish tv shows and eat mountains of tacos while listening to mariachhi bands drinking tecate on the 5th of may.
all it does it identifies you as part of a racial group. the fact that could call me racist is absolutly uncalled for.
One may say that the USA has lost wisdom, morality and order – Conservatism – or that the USA has inverted values, or that the USA has perverted values – Wastism. Whichever way it is considered, the USA is a pitiable country in terms of values. The USA should not be a model for the world; it should be helped by the wise and moral – conservative – nations of the world.
Anyone who knows the history of the USA knows that the pitiable situation of the USA developed from the experience of fighting for independence and the sexist-feminist changism that degraded womanhood, begun by Margaret Sanger and advanced by the 1960s “It Girl” and the “torrid love girls”.
There is no doubt that a woman is not a man and that both men and women were intended to carry out different duties in families by God. This is expressed in Onicha-Ugbo, my native Nigerian language, as ka okei shue mili tie ulu ka okposho shue mili tie ulu kai fu onye mili oshu jeko aka. This means literally, let a man urinate into a bottle and let a woman urinate into a bottle, and let us know whose urine would be more.
The man was intended to work outdoor – farm and provide foods for the family or earn income with which to provide care for the whole family, and he is to disciple the children – while the woman is to manage the home: keep the home tidy, clean and orderly, bring the children up to be moral, and moderate the man’s attitudes and materialism. There is no bias against women in this just as there is no bias against men for their hard labour role
The fundamental problem of modernism, progressivism, and changism is that there is no moderation and no morality; there is radical individualism and excessive materialism, romanticism, hedonism and nihilism. Here is where Sarah Palins seventeen years old daughter becoming pregnant and not married clearly comes in. It shows that she is a failure as a mother and there is no sex-bias against her about that.
Prince Awele Odor
Lagos, Nigeria
jacob, indeed they are. but putting lipstick on a pig is also commonly used to disguise a bad project as a good onne. so it is also projectisme….
steve,
who was running the world in orwell’s animal farm………?
This lady Mrs Palin, was sellected because of her Christian Fundamentalist beliefs. Hagee a major Christian Fundamentalist organisation said two weeks ago to his audiance vote acording to the Bible to a church full of thousands of people, after a speech about the rights of a fetus. And now this, church and state should be seperate, this man has regularmeetings with G W Bush, and openly admits to this on his sunday show on Day Star via satalite.
This group is trying to bring on end times according to Revelations, and the Book of Daniels. Very dangerious, we speak of Muslim Fundamentalism, we need to look at religious fundamentalism in America. They get funding from the Republican Party as long as they get their church members to vote for the Republican party. Without them Bush could not have won a second term in office.
Some of theses organisation, advertise on TV radio to encourage poor Americans to send in money they cannot afford to support the life style these Fundamentalist live some with their own private Jets and live in Mansions. I am convinced America is the most dangerious country on earth.
@ Jens
the capitalist pigs, of course.
@ Jens
You have got to be kidding me. Stating that RACE DEFINES A PERSON is racist, plain and simple. My race has NOTHING to do with how I act, talk, walk, interests, etc.
Soooo, the thought of race defining someone is RACIST, or thats what I think.
-Anthony, LA, CA
I agree that America is the most dangerous country on earth!
I am sorry to say that some of my neighbors are so brainwashed by their church, they can no longer think for themselves. Not thinking for one’s self symbolizes death.
Perhaps that is it!
Simply that many have such a strong “Death Instinct” due to fear, anger, and lack of physical, and mental nutrition.
@ tony,
we must be missing the point here.
i think you take my define much further than what i am trying to say.
i ceratinly do not look at a person ans say ahhh this or that race therefore must act like that.
what is rascist in stating this person is black or white or chinese or native american…..why is that rasist? i do not presume anything past that point, since i do not know that person.
so stop calling me racist please, it is not called for and truely hurtfull to somebody who has fought for eqaulity for all for all his live and even gotten into a fight to defend two minority children from the attacks of several neo-faschist thugs.
@ WHYS Team,
Excellent topic for today’s discussion. Would it be possible to give us Sarah Palin in details in one of the other news programmes on the BBC? I ask, because this is the station is listen to the most while I am driving and I drive alot – sorry, I should be promoting green issues and the rest of it, but duty calls! I see where one of the bloggers above started giving us some insights. An in depth look at Palin and Biden would be much appreciated.
Further, thanks for the opportunity to question this charge of sexism. As Will notes above, is it possible that the RNC are pushing this issue with the hope that serious criticisms will not follow Palin to November? Sounds far out, I know, but very likely, I am sure.
@rawpolitics:
Sounds far out, I know…
I had that very same thought–throw up a wall of sexism charges as a smoke screen to deflect reporters/pundits from Mrs Palin’s general lack of political acumen.
@Steve –
Hmmmm….and I thought you stated that this should only be on-topic and about sexism….you’ve gone far, far afield, my friend.
@ Kelsie in Houston,
Could not agree more. To me, the timing of this announcement was designed to capitalise on all the backtracking from that platform (sexism), in a way – in the aftermath of the post-Hillary bid for the DNC nominee.
According to Will, there is a likelihood, based on what he saw of the broadcast that, the Republicans are trying to stir up these charges themselves. For my part, I am not so sure if I could be as confident in making the claim but I would say that, as Jens and Jack have noted above, the notion that a woman will get the Republicans the Presidency simply because she has a uterus is kind of kicking dirt in the face of intelligent, critical members of the American electorate.
The media, I think, have a responsibility to tell the real story, at the very least gesture towards it in some way.
McCain-Palin? Country First!
Obama-Biden? People First!
HI WHYS
Please allow me to withdraw my commendation of the all media for calling a spade a spade re Sarah Palin. Your refusal to post my comments shows that you have in fact swallow the rightwing propaganda.
What sexism?! Give me a break!!!!!!!!!!! The Republicans are getting a taste of their own rotten medicine and not even the BBC can stop that!
May God have mercy on us all if the Republicans retain the White House. All decent, democratically minded people worldwide would be better off living on Mars!
Yeah the response to Palin is sexist because that’s how she frames her candidacy. Read her speech last night and it’s mommy, mommy, mommy and exactly one (1) policy statement and that one a flat lie.
The FACTS are that Palin is a huge welfare queen who sucked over $4,000 per capita in federal funds for her tiny town of Wasilla and still left it $20 million in debt and mired in lawsuits when she left. It’s a fact that she supported a bridge from Ketchikan Alaska that would have cost the federal government over $47,000 for every resident of the tiny town of 8,000.
The entire state of Alaska has 700,000 residents that are subsidized by federal spending far in excess of tax dollars returned to the government as well as unearned oil moneys from the Alaskan permanent fund. lf Alaskan’s had to survive on their individual incomes the state would collapse.
Yeah, the response to Palin is sexist. If she was a man we would be looking at her crappy record. Instead we’re all scanning pictures of her belly and counting months. Then for desert we watch a presidential candidate celebrate teen pregnancy on global television.
@ CarlosK,
Temper! Temper! For what it is worth, I was advised last night that there were problems with the page, as at least two of my comments were deleted from the board. Perhaps this is what happened in this instance?
In the meantime, is there anyone else who agrees that the choice for VP, this year especially, has all sorts of real implications for the American Presidency? Just curious.
As far as her mommy status. As the fourth of five children of a working mother with an executive job I can absolutely say that her primary responsibility is at home at least until her infant is two years old. Then a parent needs to be at home until the youngest child is in secondary school.
Children should not be raised by strangers and mother’s primary responsibility is ensuring the health of an infant. The pretense that she can raise a Down syndrome child with care and be VP or president just flies in the face of facts.
Sara Palin is set up to be a better looking puppet than George Bush but a puppet all the same.
@ Pangolin- California
Ouch, but completely fair and absolutely 100% true. This is one of those “the truth hurts” moments, especially economically. *sigh* I wish more people understood the stakes.
@ rawpoliticsjamaicastyle
“In the meantime, is there anyone else who agrees that the choice for VP, this year especially, has all sorts of real implications for the American Presidency?”
Why do you think we have so ardently been “discussing” our views these past couple of weeks? For fun? Ok, maybe a little of that too. 😀
@263 Jacob September 4, 2008 at 6:58 pm
“Sarah Palin is facing so much criticism because her values are conservative, and her roots are rural.
She is not a left wing feminist, she is a right wing feminist.”
Right-wingers are anti-feminist, they call feminists “Feminazis” And Conservative Evangelical Christians preach against womens rights, they preach that women should be obedient to their husbands and stay at home and raise families.
Palin faces criticism because she is a hypocrite, a “do as I say, not as I do”, professional politician/Christian.
I see many of the views I have were echoed by others, so i won’t include the long version. Sara offered herself as a “good mother”. She has compared herself to Hillary and was clearly put on the ticket to attract female voters. that is a gender biased issue. She has a Down’s baby. You can’t just plop them in daycare.
She invites the low road and on top of that there isn’t a high road. She has no notable positioins on any of the national issues.
Here is what we do know. “The bridge to nowhere” she supported until she didn’t. Then she still kept the money. The anti- gay rights bill she only opposed because her attorney general said it wouldn’t get past the Supreme Court. Never making any decision dealing with her national guard, though she lists being in charge of them on her resume. They are acutally under staffed. Sending a lobbyist to get the largest ever, by far, request for earmarks. Show me a valid decision she has made. 6 months into her new post, and she was already under investigation.
@ Jessica,
No, I actually thought it was ‘for fun’! Can you imagine! Now, I will have to go back and read all the posts, including the Talking Points! How sad for me! LOL!
I have heard some much talk about VPs not having an impact in these elections on CNN and elsewhere I wonder if these candidates, especially McCain are not trying to trump that position? Or, are the media trying not to cover the VPs? Is that simple?
@ Dwight in Cleavland,
Thanks for the information.
all i need to know about Palin is that she’s an evangelical, anti-woman’s rights (ie abortion), conservative. being a creationist isn’t helping either.
as a woman i find her offensive and a hypocrite. and mccain as well for choosing her for simply for being a woman trying to woo woman voters, thinking they are so stupid as to vote against their own interests.
i hope it backfires on him.
Response to Palin sexist? You mean like the Indiana delegation wearing “Hoosiers for the Hot Chick” buttons at the convention sexist? Glass houses, people. Glass houses. Now let us return to issues that really affect the country.
Once again, let’s go logical and non-partisan for a moment.
If lack of experience ought to disqualify Palin then it ought to disqualify Obama. Though Palin was the mayor of a small town and the governor of a less populated state, Barack Obama has absolutely zero executive experience (need I remind you he’s running for an executive office). You can’t deny that. Regardless of party. He’s been a senator, a community organizer, a lawyer, and a lecturer. None of which can be counted executive experience. So let’s get off that ridiculous route for now.
@ Tom D Ford
You’re using phrases you got from Limbaugh and Hannity and are trying to pin those philosophies on all conservatives. Not the most educated way of thinking. Remember that conservative talk radio unanimously agreed that Romney should have been the Republican nominee but, obviously, the majority voted in John McCain regardless of talk radio’s constant McCain bashing. By the way, don’t you think it’s a weak move calling Palin a hypocrite without citing the hypocrisy. If you decide to do so, make sure you really know what that word means before you do it.
On sexism:
If there has been any sexism in this case, it has been restricted to pathetic bloggers and isolated incidents in the mainstream media. Of course, pathetic bloggers are a dime a dozen and it is worth noting that a Rusmussen poll today cited 51% of Americans as believing that the media is deliberately trying to hurt Palin’s image. Is that because of sexism? Such should be assesed on a case by case basis.
The mian criticism about her speech, albeit a fiery one, have been that she did not touch on things that matter to ordinary Americans like health, education, economy about which she said nothing. Is that being sexist? I thought it was politics!
I am with Arlene and Line Walker re their comments above.
In terms of Sam’s comments, I am just curious to know what would be considered ‘valid’ experience for either the job of President or VP, in this case? What I find curious about the criticisms of Obama by the Republicans is Sarah Palin, herself.
If the question of Obama being ‘inexperienced’ disqualifies him for the job then Palin has no more credible claims either. What is more, is that little attention paid to her record, such as it is, in all this discussion about her daughter’s pregnancy etc. This helps McCain, in my view, as it focusses less on the message and more on the messenger.
As I recall, McCain drew Obama over the coals for not having much (any?) foreign policy experience re the question of Iraq. The appeasement debates, in fact, came out of these criticisms. How does Palin enhance McCain’s claim and make his credentials on the war any more credible now? What will that mean in terms of Obama’s claim about tough diplomacy and not war, as the first/ only option?
On a side note, the politics of personality is inescapable and by all appearances the RNC has that to their advantage now, especially as concerns about sexist media coverage escalate and seems to hijack any real discussion about Palin, from what I can see.
There’s a little sexism in the left-wing rant against Sarah Palin. But it’s mostly the fear the Dems have that McCain might just tilt the election.
Though both Democrats and Republicans have been hi-jacked by the radicals on the left and right, the general feeling in the states that the US has turned the wrong corner should have Obama win by a Nixonian landslide.
It’s just that the passions are off the scale about Palin. In an Op-ed in yesterday’s Los Angeles Times, Sam Harris penned what is typical of the paper’s view with this headline:
“Palin: Average isn’t good enough/…in picking her, McCain shows that he has little respect for the presidency.”
To date, he’s received over a thousand comments (1013,), about half for, half against (I haven’t read all of them), to which I contributed:
Geraldine Farraro (the Dems veep choice in ’84) came across like a temperance marcher. Palin seems like someone you could get drunk with. That’s what the Dems fear most.
Forgive me for throwing another log on this pile, but I couldn’t resist.
Regards. Louisville, Kentucky, US.
Never mind sexism, if my daughter (now 20) had gotten pregnant at 17, I would be so ashamed of MYSELF as her inadequate mother, I would barely have set foot outside my house in daylight. I repeat, I’d have been ashamed of myself, as a parent, not of my daughter. I’d consider myself a total failure as a parent.
And here we have a parent (and whether it’s a father or mother is really irrelevant) parading their pregnant teen around like a family heirloom. Move over Jamie Lyn Spears.
My only surprise is that she hasn’t actually proclaimed it a virgin birth. Yet.
They act like this is real cute. Statistically it’s not. People who have babies very young and marry young tend to have low wages most of their lives and low educational achievement and we are saying to America that this is good? This is the way forward? Really?
This is a person who apparently has a slippery grip on parenting. She strikes me as being self obsessed. Possibly Obama is too, I’m not sure. He may be a little over impressed with his own publicity. But at least he seems to have mastered birth control. (There are going to be around nine billion people on planet earth by 2050, which everyone with half a brain cell can see is totally unsustainable, yet here we are seriously thinking of electing a pair who have, what, almost a dozen offspring between them? What an example to give to the world.)
All that will sustain America in the new global world is our brains, science and technology. We can’t compete in manufacturing, in mass production. Where was the commitment to high tech education in that speech? We ‘import’ some 70,000 highly educated experts per year on H1 B visas because this country no longer produces the engineers and scientists it needs. Where was the commitment to the science and technology and engineering that we must invest in to have a future? Will we become like Saudi? Living off our investments and importing the guest workers to keep our economy going, while hiding behind religious fundamentalism? I’m serious.
This person is a religious fundamentalist who believes in the creationist fairy tale. That is anti science. If the USA votes for a leader like that (man or woman) we are doomed to fall ever further behind the rest of the world economically. What we need is someone highly educated, worldly, sage and smart, not Palin, not Mccain. I’m not sure about Obama / Liden but they may be the best of a bad lot. Are these 4 really the best America can produce?
It has nothing to do with male / female. I’d feel just as horrified if Romney were up for VP. His religion has some crack pot ideas too (actually most religions are full of crack pot ideas, and when you look at them closely, most fundamentalists are much the same.)
Get a grip America and take a long hard look out there at the real world. It’s a frightening place but hiding behind the barricades of religion, the military (or sexism) won’t make it go away.
@ Thomas Murray,
Useful insights I am sure! But, is it that people want a VP that they can get drunk with or someone who will exercise calm, rational judgment, often not under the influence, when the critical decisions are to be made? This is especially the case considering that there may be a real possibility that if McCain wins Palin may have to man the operations at some point. So that, if she has those qualities is that the same as saying that she is not serious or qualified for the job?
Essexgirl~
I totally agree with you. I would have taken it as personal failure had my daughter become pregnant in high school.
I also can’t have confidence in adults who believe in creationism, or any fundamentalist beliefs.
I think this first Presidential choice of McCain’s for Palin as his running mate, is cynical and shows us that McCain will do anything to win.
@ Essexgirl,
Some considered opinions. I like your point about science and technology but how many of the voters are thinking that this is critical or are we just speculating at this point in terms of asking these questions? Could it be that people have considered and have decided these guys are the most ideal or is it like American Idol? Who is best able to wow the voters?
As for the pregnant daughter, I am shocked that in the Republican Party there is not much more of an outcry against this obvious stain in the moral fabric of American society. Even more alarming is the sense that audience is being dared to criticise Palin as a parent on this one.
Remember, this is a standard criticsim in the Republican Play Book if the shoe were on the other foot. The muted, sotto-voce like reviews are telling. Is this part of ‘gentlemanly’
campaign approach that these guys agreed to? And is that the same as divorcing your values in the name of political gain?
From where I sit, whether people want to believe in the Creation Story or not, is not the real issue. Of greater importance is whether that will have any meaning for US policy making and, if so, what are its implications? Interesting point though in relation to religious fundamentalism. That is never usually a term associated with the US, for the most part.
@ portlandmike,
Agreed! The minute I saw it, I said these Republicans sure know how to play politics! No doubt!
@all:
Please remember to try and keep your posts compact and succinct.
kelsie,
yes
@Dwight
Hmm..I had never thought about it like that. I have been hunting with my uncle and my cousin. It’s definitely not glamorous or something I do every chance I get 🙂 People have different ideals about what is attractive I suppose. Many people I have talked to here like the fact that Palin is an “outdoorswoman” 🙂
@Mark
I am glad that you liked the last paragraph of my post. 🙂 I have learned to just “let things roll off of my back” as my mom would say and ignore other things that are not within my own control!
Do people really believe politicians when they say they believe in God or creationism? It’s like when I hear a far left politician mention god, I know they don’t believe it, just like I don’t believe when Palin believes in creationism. They just say what they think people want to hear, to get votes.
Sure, Kelsie.
steve~
That is an interesting thought. I do believe that many liberals just pay lip service to Christians, and other faiths also. No one believes that an atheist could be elected President.
On the other hand, over the last quarter century evangelicals have made a political effort to get their religious beliefs into our secular society. Palin is one of them? Does America want a person who professes these religious beliefs to represent us?
@rawpolitics:
Of greater importance is whether that will have any meaning for US policy making and, if so, what are its implications?
That’s the question we as consumers of the media and these conventions need to be asking of the whole system: are the politicians talking about the issues that matter? Is the media reporting that discussion, or are they encouraging the politicos to continue their tap dance away from the important questions?
You will waste a lot of time if you insist on arguing, it is a foolish waste of a true opportunity to communicate with one another. Who cares if it was sexist! There are so many issues that warrant attention, especially at this time in global history. Why focus on such triviality. The world is full of sexism that has much harsher consequences than some bad press and being used as a political tool to achieve higher office!!!! Are you squabbling babies really concerned with anything other than being right?
For the anti Palin people, you do realize that Mccain was going to pick a conservative as his VP. So would you rather he chose a man instead of a woman?
She’s honest, straight forward and real. Deal with it. If you don’t like her don’t vote for her. But she has more experience running government than any of the three men she stands with today: both of her opponents and John McCain.
She is not responsible for her daughter’s pregnancy. She’s just a mother raising kids. If we go with the idea that parent’s are directly responsible then Jeffrey Dahmer’s parents should get the electric chair because they raised him!
She made me want to vote again!
@ Jacqui
I agree with you 100%. Most past presidents haven’t been senators, but this time, one is going to be a senator.
I know people who have had nightmare children (in prostitution, in porn) and while I think their free spirit mentality might have contributed to it, I don’t blame then for the choices their kids made.
I don’t know why Americans are so stunned by a female on the ticket. There have been many women in high positions – Golda Meir, Indira Ghandi, Margaret Thatcher, Sandra Day O’conner to name only a few. I don’t necessarily like what is going on with Sarah Palin – she was chosen last minute in order to make a statement, but she is hardly known, and has not been in office long enough to become president should anything happen to John McCain. The whole thing is overblown in my opinion, and it would be a bad idea to go with this flimsy duo.
People who choose to have children also choose to make a silent contract with them to be there, take care of them, nurture and guide them. Not run for office which takes her away from them and aspire to a job which will take her even further away. So this is ‘family values’? I don’t think so.
Jacqui / Steve
If the daughter were over 18 I might agree. But this child – yes, legally a child still – is under 18. At what point does a parent cease to be responsible for their kids? Eighteen and graduated school seems reasonable to me. I believe the law in the USA regards 18 as the legal age of adulthood too.
There is no escaping the fact that Palin’s daughter is still legally her parents’ responsibility. She’s not old enough to get a tattoo or join up, let alone buy a drink, so I’m afraid I do still regard them as responsible for her. Sure we all know wayward kids. They are often the product of dubious parenting.
I thought the right were all about parents being responsible for their kids? It’s the utter hypocrisy which takes my breath away. How quickly they changed tack on that when one of their own got knocked up.
I repeat, if it were my daughter, I’d be mortified that I had failed her so badly.
“Is the response to Sarah Palin sexist?”
No, but the McCain campaign LOVES trotting that out to keep people from getting actual answers to questions they have about her less-than-stellar background. It’s great for them, because not only does it keep them from having to answer questions, it also fires up people to get mad at the media and then say “Well, I;ll show the media by voting for McCain out of spite!”
This is the same campaign that just backed out of a scheduled appearance on the Larry King show. This was done in retaliation for another reporter on the same network refusing to take mumbo-jumbo talking points from McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds instead of “…just ONE example of a decision Gov. Palin made as commander of the Alaska National Guard…”
If McCain wins in November, just let me apologize in advance to the rest of the world, including the handful of countries he and Palin will happily be launching attacks on.
The choice of Palin may well have be viewed as “sexist”, but by precisely the same argument the choice of Obama is “racist”. Think about it guys.
According to me…YES.
See this picture
http://allainjulesblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/bristol-palin-et-lalcool.html
these criticisms are a misconception of the word democracy….the right to open the democrats mouths(DOMO)
THE LAST DON
uthiru,kenya
What a strong conservative woman. The attacks have been personal and not based upon the policies. If the roles have been reversed, the Republicans would be taken to the woodshed for treating a woman politco like this.
McCain’s Palin VP pick has energized the conservative base for McCain (including me) like I thought impossible just a week ago.
As a conservative Christian living in middle Tennessee, I now have a reason to VOTE FOR MCCAIN, in leau of just VOTING AGAINST OBAMA.
She is truly one of us, the flyover countryman, that the Beltway & media folk, despise and hold in low regard.
I just wish the ticket order was reversed.
@ Truman Bean
Look at the letters to the editor in the wasington post about Palin. The attacks fromt he democrats are basically saying “I’m a democrat, so it’s okay for me to be a working mother, but she should stay at home with her kids!”. It’s hilarious reading things like that, showing the double standards and the anger and bitterness the democrats feel from knowing Obama is going to lose.
If Barack Obama was a white man and Sarah Palin was a white man, their levels of inexperience in politics would be evident and not dissimilar.
But they are not, and therefore those people who identify with them will vote for them!
Lots of voters are black and lots (probably even more) are women.
Both of these groups would like to see more representation in public life at the highest levels.
May the best group win!
The focus on Sarah Palin is sexist because it is focused on her looks and her ability as a mother. IT is focused on whether women will identify with her and whether men will be attracted to her. Not many people are bringing up the issues of her governing ability (her successes AND her failures), her pro-drilling stance, and her possible relationship to Big Oil through her husband.
@ Steve
Palin called herself a dog with lipstick.
So really, if there is any disrespect, she dissed herself.
The response is not sexist I dont believe but the libs are furious that there is a possibility that a woman who is pro-life could actually be Vice President. They never wanted this. Its not supposed to happen. They envisioned a pro-choice feminist.
But the McCain campaign is smart in calling it a sexist response. It rallies more women to the McCain ticket. Libs really dont know how to attack her because they have been calling for more equality for women. But in reality they only want that for women they agree with.
I am ecstatic about Palin!
practicalpolitik.wordpress.com
Tilly,
read about palins track record. unless you like the fact that hospitals, shelters, schools etc are underfunded there is not much to like about her. she is corupt and got more pok barrel money per capity than any other stae, something maccain does not condone. under her steawardship, teen pregencies increased, methlabs quadrupeled and her biggest acchievment is having sold a jet on e-bay. she flip-flop on the bride to nowhere only after alaska became the laughing stock of the union….and there is plenty of othet stuff.
i doubt that many liberal women will support somebody who belives the world is 5000 years old, is a gun-crazed nra member and stauch pro-lifer.
it’s just my personal opinion and i have talked to plenty of women about this. ZERO are impressed with her and some center republicans have told me they will vote for obama because of the vp selection. they are with good reason scared for this country
Palin and McCain camp set up the Press to take the bait that they provided – Palin served up her own children to further her career. They came out with all of the “vicious” stories and handed it to the Press. Then they turned around when the Press asked them about the information they provided, and they now pretend that they are the victims of the Press and those liberals, claiming sexism, etc. Then showcase Palin’s children in PR photo ops, for Palin’s own best interest – not the childrens, for pure political gain?
Remember Bush’s campaign? McCain’s tactics sure seem familiar. Playing the US Press – who falls for it every time. This time it’s using her children as bait.
There is nothing sexist about it, IT IS A STRAW WOMAN they have set up and are knocking down.
@ Brian
What about democrats, gay democrats that get married so they can run for office? Remember Jim McGreevy of NJ? Though It’s pretty clear his wife knew he was gay, he still used someone for political purposes. Do you not think Palin’s kids want her to be VP? I would be so excited and proud if my mom were running for VP when I was young.
Your argument could be used against anyone in the military that is married or has kids. They put their country as a higher priority than their kids. They might never come back, and then the child will have only one parent. What about people who work in the foreign service? Their job makes the kid grow up in a different country, moving every three years. Do you have problems with that?
@ Tilly
No, the “libs” are furious at the possibility of four more years of Conservative Republicans financially raping our country and destroying our childrens futures.
@ Brian O’Cooney
Yep, you nailed it.
Republican operatives did a “false flag attack” to get their their Right-wing religious base to rally around Palin.
Absolutely NOT!!
The allegation is used as a razor sharp knife to neutralize open and candid discussions, regarding her apparent weaknesses. This is very dangerous to free speech. She has made open accusation of Senator Clinton calling her a “Winer”. It is alleged that she was instrumental in the firing of the Security Chief. A total of 25 documented calls were placed. She has suppressed open sex education in schools – Alaska.
This issue is paramount and should involve critical discussions on the issues. This demonstrates a failed policy that should be reviewed. She does not believe in abortion, a fundamental right afforded to women, even in extreme circumstances of rape, or incest. Yet she cries that it is sexist to challenge her weaknesses. This is an assault to all women.
It is okay for her to attack Senator Obama with labels “Elitist – Liberal”. Question, are they aware of true definition? Simply look at Bush spending waste, and addiction, not to mention the blatant theft, and corruption. These issues are all intertwined. She cannot get a free pass here. We are talking about our lives in the US, and the world.
If Obama had made this reckless choice he would have been destroyed in the US Media without question.
Yes, the response to Sarah Palin is definitely sexist. The response to female politicians in general in this country has been severely sexist. Hillary Clinton received aggregious levels of sexist derogotory commentary as a Democratic Presidential candidate, and now Sarah Palin is receiving a different tone of sexist commentary (because it’s coming from Democrats who won’t use the word “bitch” as Republicans did of Hillary). But still it is sexism at play for both candidates. How many male candidates were grilled about their care for their children? None. How many male candidates were called “shrill”?
None. How many were referred to as any masculine correlary of the derogotory word “bitch”? None. The United States is a very patriarchal society that provides plenty of checks and balances against female equality. These differences in language and treatment of female candidates compared to their male counterparts is a clearcut example of the type of stifling treatment women receive when they reach for a leadership position. It’s why women in droves leave the workforce, and don’t seek office in numbers similar to men– even though women now earn more college degrees in this country than men. Unfortunately, the patriarchal, sexist strucure of our society has held firm, and probably will for at least another generation, until the old guard starts to retire from leadership posts throughout out society, and more equal-minded replacements take their places.
mary,
she has a shrill voice, that’s all. this comment is nothing compared to the attcks she came out against obama. she was smug and sarcastic through out her speech. i hope the democrtaes will not pussy-foot around her, because she is a woman. she deservers equal treatment, and i hope she get’s it. a gun-totting moose killer can handel the same attacks she is dishing-out. sorry, she started the war of words.
We need gender balance now in politics. Only men age has gone. Let us promote women and let them take an active part in politics. I wish democrats could have done the same. When we choose only men we promote male domnation society which has left our world with untold violence. We need the famale side of the coin. Bravo Sarah and keep it up.
I don’t think the response to Sarah Palin is sexist. Many women I know said to me that she does not have enough experience. She doesn’t know Washington politics, and even less world politics. WE are all incredulous regarding this choice. We can’t imagine her taking over in case McCain dies or is incapacitated. Oh how we wish for Hillary Clinton.
As to being a Christian, the discussion is about her not having brought up her 17 year old daughter in the right way since she is pregnant. The top leaders of a nation should be good examples to their countrymen morally and in every way.
simeon
sahra believes wars are god given, she is a nra card carrying member. she is everything but a peacful person. she will promote more wars……
@ Livia
Same was said about Truman, and he turned out to be a great President when FDR died in office.
Also, kids rebel against their parents. Parents can’t really force their children to do what the parents want, and the harder they try to the more the children will rebell.
Bill Clinton’s brother was a drug addict. Should that reflect on Bill Clinton?
Tilly September 5, 2008 at 5:30 pm
The response is not sexist I dont believe but the libs are furious that there is a possibility that a woman who is pro-life could actually be Vice President. They never wanted this.
This is an important point. It’s as if Democratic, ‘liberal’ women are saying, “Who the hell does this right wing, Christian, anti-abortion broad think she is, running for VP?” Many of them are here on this blog and from the very beginning they pounced on Palin and disparaged her without even knowing the facts about her alleged misdeeds, or even bothering to do the minimum of research to find out.
I guess a lot of this has to do with the bitter disappointment over Clinton’s defeat. By running for high office, Palin has highjacked those broken dreams, but she’s in the wrong party and she’s the wrong kind of woman. How dare she?!
@ Jens
I’m a card carrying NRA member and I believe that God is a fictional book character. The VP has no power to promote wars or do any of the things people on here have accused her of being able to do. She votes if there is a tie in the senate. She cannot introduce legislation, she makes NO policy, all she does is vote if there is a tie in the senate and goes to funerals of foreign leaders.
@ Brian
Check out these letters to the editor about Palin (especially pg. 2) and see the bitter liberals saying it’s okay for them to be working mothers, but not Sarah Palin. Utter hypocrisy. If someon ehas liberal values, then she should be empowered as w oman, but if she’s conservative, she should stay at home. Such hypocrisy from the left about Palin.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/03/AR2008090303288.html
Sarah Palin used her children for her own political advancement. Who cares if she’s a working woman? Thats an issue the conservative and religious right, both of whom she embraces, has a problem with, not liberals. And if she does pretend to be a part of that ilk, then those morals have to be address. Shouldn’t she be home, barefoot and pregnant serving her man, as the Bible does state? Or doesn’t she follow the Bible like a good Christian mother? Why wouldn’t she go to her son’s soccer games, doesn’t she care? Or is it all about her?
It isn’t easy being the next incarnation of Anita Bryant.
steve,
i know, but she is second in line….that is what is worrying me.
i have nothing against guns and i belive that god is a sky fairy.
the problem of all these debates and congresses is that everybody in politics is a cynic and a lier to a certain extend.
i propbaly would have voted for mccain 8 years ago, but now certainly not. palin is just overall a scary figure and i truely do not care about her personal life and ceratainly not about her daughters. i care about policies etc and she has a worriesome track record of dissing the disenfranchised. yes i am in privilage position, but i realize that my life and standart of living depends on the less well off having a better live. that’s why i support obama. he may not be the best and most sterling candidate, but he has a track record of at least giving two s..ts about it.
Good grief. Further infiltration of the media by right wing partisans posing as impartial intellectuals. Camille Paglia and her good friend Rush LImbaugh are hardly feminists and on the contrary mock feminists. She was supportive of Clarence Thomas against Anita Hill’s report of sexual harrassment. As Thomas is the ultimate example of a token not representing the interests of group he is a token of, obviously she would not acknowledge that her champion Palen is the same thing and promotes an antifemale agenda.
Can’t the BBC screen these guests a bit better? She clearly was promoting a partisan agenda in what was otherwise a nonpolarized discussion.
@ Emily
So the voices you don’t approve of should be silenced? Palin has an anti female agenda solely because she opposes abortion? Um, okay. I didn’t realize being female was 100% connected to whether or not you should kill your child or not..
Clarence Thomas was accused of sexual harassment, it as an allegation only. Kind of like the allegations against clinton by someone that he raped her. Just an allegation.
And Thomas has to be in favor of reparations, affirmative action, etc for him to count as being black, otherwise he’s token?
@ Emily
Also, you said “She clearly was promoting a partisan agenda in what was otherwise a nonpolarized discussion.
”
And the guest you wanted on wouldn’t have promoted a partisan democrat position? You seem to not want people to speak their minds unless they share your views on the issue, so how can you talk about non partisanship when you are so partisan yourself?
Sexist? Absolutely. Consider this: when questioned in Congress by Barbara Boxer (I think it was) Condi Rice was criticized as being someone with no stake in the Iraq war because as an unmarried woman she had no son serving there. Now Palin, as a mother of five, who will soon have a son serving in Iraq is criticized as a possible Vice President BECAUSE she has children. How can she “neglect” them, blah, blah, blah.
Yes. It’s sexism. It’s also a bias against Republican women particularly. These questions are only asked of Republican women. So, it’s “racism” of a sort too. Separate and not equal. Next, maybe Republicans will need their own drinking fountains.
By the way, what are Sarah Palin’s “creationist views” that some find so “extreme”? The “devil is in the details,” you know.
To believe that God created the universe is “creationist” yet it is otherwise a fairly non-specific assertion. I believe that God “created the universe,” but my views are not inconsistent with there being a black hole at the center of most galaxies and other plausible contempory scientific claims(multiple dimensions, and whatnot). Has Bob in Queensland read Stephen Hawkins’s “Brief History in Time”? I have.
Often, GOP critics like to make all kinds of extraordinary and non-specific slanders against candidates in pure ad hominem attack.
If you have so much confidence in “liberal” politicians, why this need to lie? Explore a candidate’s actual views (specifics help rather than harm your case, you know) and skip the spurious claims. Talk about real ideas.
As for me, I’m getting tired of the labels. “Extreme” is the one I find most tiresome. It’s in the “eyes of the beholder,” pal. I think the critics are actually quite worried. Palin is just one example of a GOP figure who is really appealing — and appealing for precisely something the Dems aren’t famous for: BEING REAL.
ann’s new friend
yes, BEING REAL GOOD LIARS……..
I do agree it’s funny people criticizing her creationist beliefs, especially the people on the left who forbid any kind of christinianity in schools, but for “diversity” purposes, teach muslim prayers and teach about islam in public schools, but raise holy hell if that were done with christianity. Let’s not forget that muslims are more devout than most christians, and believe in creationism as well. I remind the people here I’m an arch athiest, and wouldn’t believe there was a god even if it made an appearance in front of me.
@ Jens
“Liars.” About what? “They.” Who? All Republicans? I guess that makes me a “liar” too. (And, maybe you’re a racist?
@ Steve
Thank you. I’m a Christian, but this isn’t the first time the atheist in the house has come to my rescue.
@ Prince of Lagos, Nigeria
Good luck with that. As a female American, I’m happy to do my own yard work, thank you very much, and I’ll keep my freedom.
@ Mrs. Giles
My goodness, have you ever fallen for a set of stereotypes! I especially enjoyed “under-educated, fearful, and innocent” which doesn’t exactly describe David Brooks or Paul Gigot. Name me a few Dem “intellectuals.” I’d love to find ’em. Been searching high and low!
Sign me, Literate, Educated, Not fearful and Normal (mostly)
Using sex to sell bad political ideas is sexist. Last night they dressed Palin up in a skirt above her knees, lots of bare chest and a push-up bra like she was selling cars. So Conservative Republicans are sexist.
I can’t blame them, she still has it and is willing to flaunt it at 44 and since she helps their side by doing it and chooses to use her sexuality to sell Conservative Republican ideas that are otherwise unpalatable and bad for the country, well, being sexist is her choice.
@ Tom
I seem to recall lots of comments from women that Obama is “cute” or “hot”. sexist?
It’s official then? The GOP supports teen pregnancy. Terrific! If that doesn’t help keep women down nothing will. Most teen moms go on to low paid jobs and poor educational achievement, and spend the rest of their lives running to catch up financially. If you want to support women achieving success in science, the law, business or just about anything else that will earn them a decent living, don’t let them get pregnant at 17.
During my life I have been a solitary woman working in the offshore oil industry (before sexual harassment was outlawed so I know a lot first hand about sexism), a stay at home mom, a part time worker running around after my kids, a PTA officer (like Palin), a soccer mom and now, at fifty something, I’m trying to put money away for my retirement – I have seen (and been) just about every aspect of the women’s movement – call it feminism or whatever you will – and I repeat…..
If my daughter had got pregnant at 17 I would feel mortified and I would feel like a fool and I would not parade her around in front of the world. I am just speechless at the hypocrisy of these people. And also, I feel like a total fool for having given up my career for so long to take care of my kids and make sure teen pregnancy didn’t happen. What a waste of my time. After all, it’s official now
Teen Pregnancy Rocks, OK!
@ Essexgirl
because she’s not having an abortion, republicans support teen pregnancy? I’m sure a republican has never had a teenage daughter get pregnant before this very moment before…
@ Steve
Obama didn’t take off his shirt or wear it open halfway down his chest, show off his legs with shorts, or wear tight pants to show off his buns, so I don’t think he is using his sexuality to sell his ideas like Palin did.
Frankly I think they’re both attractive human beings and I can’t fault anyone for calling her beautiful and him cute.
It is just that the Republican complaints of sexist remarks looks like a preemptive strike because they are using her sexuality to sell their ideas and want to get away with it without being questioned about it.
Now if you want a girl fight, Sarah Palin vs Michelle Obama would bring out the toughness in both of them and get real rough real quick.
@ Ann,
Science is the absolute opposite of creationism. There are three stages to become an acceptable truth in science. There is the Hypothesis; a “hypothesis” in the testing phase is called a “theory”. A theory that has showed a tangible, reliable, reproducible result is called a “law”. Each law is built solidly on other laws. Theories can be theories for hundreds of years.
Creationism starts with an unproven hypothesis, accepted as law. That inherently is not science. Asking why they don’t teach creationism in science class is the same as asking why they don’t teach algebra in gym class.
The McCain campaign is trying to have it both ways when it comes to Sarah Palin. They say any examination of her family problems is unfair. Yet this is a woman who presents herself first as a “hockey mom”, and only second as the Governor of Alaska. She wants people to vote for her based on this identity as a working mother, but isn’t willing to let people make judgements based on the identity she presents. To me, this is extremely hypocritical. My opinion is that the people who have the most right to make judgements about Sarah Palin are her fellow working mothers, like me.
I have a 19-year-old son, a 17-year-old daughter, and a very demanding full-time job. I am currently struggling to do my job and help my almost grown children navigate the most dangerous period of their lives. If Sarah Palin is really the devoted mother she claims to be, given that she has three more children than I do, then her job as Governor of Alaska must be a whole lot easier than the one I’m currently trying to do.
Add to that that her less than two years as governor of a state with no money problems, troubling questions about abuse of power, and her extreme right-wing views on most social issues, and I think her choice as John McCain’s running mate shows very questionable judgement on his part as well.
I was sitting on the fence in this presidential campaign, but her mean-spirited speech Wednesday night has galvanized me to whatever action I can manage. She is the last person I want next in line to run my country.
I wonder how many more people have had that experience (epiphany)? Mr McCain has never been especially appealing to me; she tied up what few remaining loose ends that perception had.
When I read that she thinks the war in Iraq is “God’s plan” and that she is a creationist I began to hate her ; then I saw and heard her speech and I had to admit that she is very personable and has an excellent speaking voice, and I thought “Oh no, she might get elected!” And she might get to be President one day : what an absolute nightmare.
I understand she patronises a cause calling itself “Jews For Jesus” which sounds more than a bit suspicious in that it’s title makes no reference to Judaism or Christianity but uses race and an individual who has had his name changed without his permission. The only thing that is relevant for any politician of whatever gender is what that person stands for the rest is trivian for juveniles of all ages.
I have found that the comments have been extremely sexist, both negative and positive ones. I have found the worlds news coverage to be extremely biased in favour of Obama. Obama has no more experience than Palin and at least Palin has governed an area of America. As an English citizen i do not really worry over who gets the vote because i am not fool enough to believe that either McCain or Obama will have sole control over anything. It is big business and people behind the scene who will be in control.
MOTHERHOOD, for the record, is held in exceptionally high regard by most societies, including the United States. Motherhood is almost exclusively associated with women even when a father is the only parent and caring for his children. Although he may be “mothering” his children with the same care as any women he will never be considered with the same esteem as a woman. Fathers are held to different standards, their ability to provide for the physical needs of their family. When a mother engages in activities which may interfer with her ability to care for her children, she is critized. When a father engages in activities which interfer with his ability to provide for the physical needs of his family, he is critized.
Yes, it fair to view Sara Palins as a mother and whether or not her career choices have a detrimental impact on her ability to care for her children. If she were a man this question would not come up because men are not expected (whether just or not) in most socities to be responsible for the care of his children, especially a toddler with speical needs.
Just by the same token a hundred years after the fact, a man who dressed up as a woman in order to get a seat on a life boat as a ship sank in freezing water, is still mocked for not going to his death. The men who “bravely” put women into life boats and went to their deaths are held in high regard. Why is a woman’s life viewed as more important or deserving than a man’s ?
How is it that when many, not all, women enter a process which can be brualizing, such as running for national office, they cling to their womanhood when things get rough. They can always count on a herd of supports to rush to their defense and defend her not on the merits of the criticism, such as her political views, but on the nature of her sex as a woman. Its time for many more women to grow up and give up their male hatred and victim status. If you step on the national stage expect to be closely examined. American voters have a right to know as much about their national leaders as humanly possible as such leaders will be making critical decisions which will affect every aspect of American life. Being a woman does not excuse candidates from this process.
I stand by my assertion at the top of this page that Palin does not need to be handled by kid gloves. Does anyone remember in March 2008 when she mentioned Hillary was “whining” about sexism? I recommend watching this clip. It’s gives you a little history on how the conservatives have changed their standards…in case any of you forgot.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card
Oh the tangled webs we weave…..
@ Vanessa
Actually the accusations from the left were that if you didn’t vote for Hillary, you were asexist, and a racist if you didn’t vote for Obama.
Yes but this clip is talking about the rights views, not the left. Palin said it herself in March; it’s not doing anything to help women.
@ Tom D Ford
When you watched Sarah Palin, did you hear her say anything about bringing back the Republican party as it has been in the past, praising it, or anything like that? I have heard many people say that Republicans are to blame for all of the problems in our country. It’s the people in government that are responsible for the problems not just the Democrats or Republicans. Everyone wants to blame someone else!
I didn’t know that to be VP one had to also be a fashion diva. I think Palin looked professional and her attire was appropriate. It is hard not to notice that she is a woman. What would people have thought if she had worn a tuxedo? Something far out like she was really a man but pretending to be a woman to snatch votes!
@Michael
I liked reading your post. It was very interesting. 🙂 I think both Motherhood and Fatherhood are equally important to a child’s development. There are many women who raise children on their own today and are 100% financially and emotionally responsible for their children. I think it’s important to state that there is more to being a dad than contributing money to the household.
I agree with you that political candidates should be scrutinized. I think Palin expected that much. After all, she is not new to politics. However, in this case, I think it is unfair to ask her questions that do not directly relate to her performance as VP.
@ Jennifer
exiledonline.com/sarah-palins-big-sleazy-safari/
No thanks! No Way! No Palin!
@ Jennifer
I watched and listened to Palin spew her hatred, lies, and divisiveness.
She pushed that old Reagan Conservative agenda that government is the problem. No, the problem is the Malignant Cancer of Conservatism that has taken over our government for decades. Conservatives prevent our government from working like Lincoln described, as a “government of the people, by the people, and for the people”. Conservative government is against the people and for the Corporations and the Corporate State.
No thanks.
Wow, you people are really scared, aren’t you? You might as well get used to her being VP. Remember, the VP has no power to do anything. At least have your fears based upon something that’s possible.
@ Tom
Please don’t believe everything you see posted on the internet. Anyone can post anything online. Look for credible sources 🙂
I am going to go stick my head in the blender now! 😉 🙂
@ Jennifer
But, but the internets told me that Obama is a muslims and that 9/11 was an inside job and all the jews called in sick that day, all 20,000.
@ Steve
and
@ Jennifer
You drank the Kool-Aid, I didn’t. I’ve studied the history of the cons, old world and new, and I see Palin for what she is, not for what the Conservative Republican Party wants her to be seen as by American voters.
On the VP: apparently Steve, you don’t know that Cheney has made himself very powerful, he has drastically changed the way the VP operates and like he bragged, he’s working the “dark side”.
On edit:
Steve and Jennifer:
And by the way, I think that if she got in she would do a very good job for you Conservative Republicans. I have no doubts about her competence, her intelligence, her ability to make decisions, and her ability to inspire her people to get things done.
It’s just that her ideas are wrong, that’s why I oppose her. Her ideas are the current problem in the US and they need to be stopped and discarded in favor of progressive ideas.
Oh and since we’re on this topic, i think that she is very well versed in how to use her feminine power, her sexuality, to her advantage, she’s a marketers dream for using sex to sell Conservative Republican ideas. Any marketer worth her salt knows that sex sells and the people that she is targeting are a prime target for that approach. Just don’t tell me that it is sexist to acknowledge that is what the Conservative Republican party is doing.
And more:
The Conservative Republican political operatives like Karl Rove are very competent and it would be stupid of me or anyone else to underestimate them and their abilities.
@ Steve
The Internet just isn’t credible enough for me. 🙂 So much stuff floating around…I get all my information from the local brainwashing center! It’s much more credible! j/k haha
@ Tom,
I don’t agree with what you stated when you said Palin is using “feminine power” to “sell Republican ideas”. I think many people who believe that way are fanatical democrats who are knit-picking every tiny thing about this lady or they have a serious problem seeing a woman as being anywhere but holed up in a house cooking pancakes and doing laundry.
I don’t think it’s wrong that Palin is scrutinized in the same manner as other candidates, but asking her questions that are stereotypical is inappropriate.
I thought the joke was that Obama voters drink kool-aid? I don’t drink kool-aid but I did when I was little. 🙂
If you feel that Obama is the best candidate vote for him. It’s your choice. I say go for it! 🙂
@ Jennifer
“I don’t agree with what you stated when you said Palin is using “feminine power” to “sell Republican ideas”. I think many people who believe that way are fanatical democrats who are knit-picking every tiny thing about this lady or they have a serious problem seeing a woman as being anywhere but holed up in a house cooking pancakes and doing laundry.”
Of course you don’t, dear, but don’t fret your pretty little head about it, your Conservative Evangelical Republican husband will tell you what to say and how to vote, you do obey your Conservative Evangelical Christian husband like your version of the Bible says, don’t you? God forbid that you would disobey your Bible and actually think for yourself!
Out here in the real world, sex sells, and Governor Palin is well trained in the media that uses sex to sell ideas.
Palin is good for your side and bad for humanity, so, no to Palin.
@ Jennifer
Oh, and Dennis Kucinich was the best candidate and most likely I’ll be writing him in, he has the best ideas of anyone.
@ Tom
I don’t have a conservative evangelical republican husband. I am not married. Even if I were, I am very capable of formulating my own opinions. I do believe in God and I am a religious person. That in NO way makes me unable of thinking for myself. Regarding the concept of “obeying” as related to marriage….maybe you should check out what that word really means. Of course, if I were married I would obey (LISTEN TO) my husband just the same as he would obey (LISTEN TO) me. That is what makes marriages work.
I fail to see anything Sarah Palin has done that could even remotely be considered attempting to attract voters using her sexuality. Give me an example. 🙂 Maybe for those people that do see her in that light, they should get their heads out of the gutter and see women as more than sexual objects.
Congratulations on deciding to vote for that Dennis dude. Write his name in and waste your vote! He’s so great I’ve never even heard of him! 🙂
@ Jennifer
“I fail to see anything Sarah Palin has done that could even remotely be considered attempting to attract voters using her sexuality. Give me an example.”
I gave an example in posts above. But if you “fail to see” what Palin has done I’m not surprised that you failed to see my example.
When a woman hikes her skirts up above her knees, bares a lot of her chest and wears an open top push-up bra like Palin did on Thursday night of the convention she is doing the same thing that pimps have their streetwalking hookers do, using sex to sell their wares.
That’s what feminism is against, women having to use their sex to get to the top, to break through the glass ceilng, so Palin just reinforces the glass ceilng against her fellow women, she is part of the problem instead of part of the solution. Feminists want to be hired and promoted on the basis of their abilities, not on their sex. Palin is obviously no feminist.
My post on “pretty little head” was a satire on the attitude of Conservatives from back in the ’70s, 80s, and 90s. Their idea was that a woman should be kept barefoot, pregnant, and at home in the kitchen instead of using her brains to get educated and choose whatever she wants to do, either stay at home, join the workplace, or some combination of both. Palin has benefited from Feminism but she is no Feminist.
“Congratulations on deciding to vote for that Dennis dude. Write his name in and waste your vote! He’s so great I’ve never even heard of him”
That’s an interesting admission of ignorance on your part; Dennis Kucinich ran for President on the Democratic ticket. He has proposed some interesting new ideas like a Department of Peace. So. Since you don’t know who your opponents are and what their ideas are how can you make a fully informed decision?
@ Tom
A lot of “feminists” allow their teen daughters to dress like complete prostitutes with exposed panties, low rider jeans, bare midriff shirts, etc… I wouldn’t go blaming this phenomenon on Sarah Palin. She dresses very conservatively to most women I see walking around.
@ Steve
There is a standard of modest but stylish frumpiness for women in politics and the Republican operatives who dressed Palin on Convention Thursday are well aware of that standard. Oh, and they also printed up all those buttons about their VP being “hot”.
And Palin, having been in politics and the media for years along with participating in at least one beauty pageant, is well aware of how she is presenting herself.
“A lot of “feminists” allow their teen daughters to dress like complete prostitutes …”
And I suspect that a lot of rebellious Conservative Evangelical Christian daughters dress the same. And/or have unprotected underage sex.
How teen daughters dress is another matter and different from politics.
@ Tom
I have never seen Sarah Palin looking anything other than professional. I think she dresses nicely. Try paying more attention to the words coming out of her mouth instead of her appearance. If you made the same argument to my mom she would ask you what you were doing looking at her chest, legs, anything anyway. Get your mind out of the gutter! Do you have a problem with intelligent women who are also attractive?
I am a registered democrat voter. However, in this instance, I think everything considered I will be making an informed vote. I will never agree with your view but you are welcome to it. Please vote for or fill in whoever you like. I’ll be checking that Dennis dude out though.
tom,
that is because he saw UFO’s and he is talking to aliens 😉
@ Jennifer
If you’re interested:
Dennis Kucinich – http://www.Kucinich.us
“Do you have a problem with intelligent women who are also attractive?”
Not at all. Nor do I have any problem with women who are not the ideal standard of physical beauty and/or of less than the highest intelligence.
“If you made the same argument to my mom she would ask you what you were doing looking at her chest, legs, anything anyway.”
If a woman dresses in a way to attract attention to her chest, legs, anything anyway, she is sending a particular message with her fashion statement.
I listened to her words, watched her facial expressions of emotions, watched her body language, and noticed the fashion statement she conveyed with what she wore.
“I am a registered democrat voter.”
No, no voter registered in the Democratic Party would identify themselves in the way you wrote that. You are not credible.
@ jens
“that is because he saw UFO’s and he is talking to aliens”
What? Explain please. Who, what, when, where, how, and why?
@ Tom
Sure, I am interested. Thank you for the link. I will check it out. I really am a registered democrat. Would you like to see my voter card? 🙂
Everything you have said about Sarah Palin smacks of uncomfortableness (if that’s a word) with an intelligent, attractive woman.
Sarah Palin is a woman. She could have worn a trash bag and we would have known she was a woman. She has ta-tas, she has legs. If you choose to focus on them, that is YOU and it is judging her because she is a woman not on her experience or her intelligence. I understand that for your own reasons you don’t like her and really, that is ok with me. I have said it numerous times……please, vote as you like but don’t expect to change my mind because you will not be able to do that! 🙂
@ Jennifer
“I have said it numerous times……please, vote as you like but don’t expect to change my mind because you will not be able to do that!”
I know better than to try and change anyone’s mind.
I looked at all aspects of how Palin presented herself and her ideas and I have explained to you what I heard and saw. You want to reduce it to accuse me of being against an intelligent and physically beautiful woman and I refuse to do that. You don’t like what I say that I saw, heard, and experienced and you are trying to say that i didn’t see what I saw, hear what I heard, and experience what I experienced and instead you have some personal fantasy that you want to project on me. Own your own “stuff” please.
You’re reading into my posts what you want to see instead of thinking about what I write. Useless efforts on my part, but it’s been somewhat enlightening for me.
This is like the telephone game where one person whispers something to the second, the second repeats it to the third, and when it comes around the circle back to the first person the message is completely different from what was whispered at the start.
Communication between two people requires that the first person ask the second to repeat his message back in order to see if the second understood the message.
“The meaning of your communication is the response you get”. Quote somebody.
It is my experience that we’re not communicating.
Oh well.
@ Tom
I have no issues with you not liking Sarah Palin. You are welcome to read anything into her appearance, facial expressions, clothes, or anything else about her you wish. I honestly believe you make more of that than needs to be but that is your choice.
It is interesting that you say that I am only seeing things from my own view. What about asking me if I was going to “obey my conservative evangelical republican husband”? And, referencing the Bible like only idiots believe in God. I will gladly own my “stuff” if you will own yours.
@ Jennifer
I read your post of 10:32 pm.
@ Jennifer
Here’s a woman whom I totally admire and respect, she is my ideal of a woman:
://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro_Harlem_Brundtland
Gro_Harlem_Brundtland is one of my heroes.
I am fed up with remarks of Liberal, Conservative, Racist, Sexist, Left, and Right. The USA is already divided among racial, ethnic, and sex lines and this will hurt America. At the present time, [in a Veterans Hospital] there is a Head Nurse who is African American discriminating against White Anglo Saxon and Latin Nurses which will affect patient care [which is racism] and there are people criticizing each other for reasons of sex. I am fed up with the discrimination and the division [of all types including racism and sexism] and I will vote Libertarian and Bob Barr.
@ Tom
I am glad you read the post.
I will check out the other link!
@ Jennifer
Another thing bothering me is Palins attacks on people who “organize”.
When she attacks “organizers” she is attacking the women who had to organize in order to fight for their right to vote, she attacks workers who had to organize themselves into Unions to get fair wages and job safety, she attacks black people who had to organize in order to get their right to vote and have their votes counted as a full person, she attacks brown people who had to organize to get basic human rights as farm workers, she attacks anyone who grouped together to demand and fight for human rights. So Palin is anti-women, anti-workers, anti-blacks, anti-browns, anti-elderly, etc.
Conservatives benefit from keeping people Un-organized, divided and conquered.
Remember “United we stand, divided we fall?” Conservatives want to keep us divided!
@ Tom
I believe she was referring to the fact that Obama’s experience includes being a community organizer. He commented about the fact that she was “only” governor of Alaska. That’s more responsibility and experience than he has ever had. I liked the fact that she sat Obama/Biden back regarding the things they were saying about her, her family, and her experience.
I am personally really tired of people making this race about republicans versus democrats. Republicans (conservatives) do believe that people should be more accountable for their circumstances and work to better themselves. We should not have a free ride in life. Democrats (liberals) want everyone to have every freedom possible with our own selves footing the bill because we pay taxes. Our economy can not handle that. We should help people who need it but wouldn’t it be better to help them help themselves as opposed to just bailing them out of every problem? As the saying goes…give a person a fish they eat for a day, teach them to fish and they can eat for a lifetime.
I think health care should be available for all people, but that is NOT possible at this time because of our economy. I am pro-choice in some cases but I believe firmly in personal accountability and the need for people to refrain from having sex unless they are in a monogamous, stable relationship that could endure an “accident” bun in the oven. Why should I foot the bill for those things when I make good choices?
PLEASE, tell me you aren’t pulling out the race card too?
What do you mean by anti-browns?
@ Jennifer
Anti-brown people means anti-latinos.
“Anti-organizers” is the race card and Palin played it.
Boy did you swallow the Rush/Rove Kool-Aid on the rest of that rant.
jennifer,
the republicans make me laugh, but really i should cry. after bush’s plea to support volenteer organizations and community efforts with his ‘1000 lights statement” they now go and rubbish community services as somthing meaningless and only done by socialist lefties. all i can say go screw, you cannot have it both ways and the republicans had it way too long bothways.
@ Tom
Whew, I feel relieved!….I thought Sarah Palin was against Native Americans for a second there! haha j/k Sarah Palin has never played the race card! Get a clue! Obama is so desperate these days and he’s trying to discredit her in any way possible. It’s just desperation though! 😀 And, I knew that many women would be offended when he did that.
I have no problem helping people but I don’t feel that our society should be responsible for things that people are capable of managing on their own. I hold myself to high standards so why shouldn’t other people be able to do the same?
@ Jens
Have you checked out the types of “community service” Barack Obama has done? Honestly, it’s all for the African American community mostly. As a native American/white woman, I don’t think he would be in tune at all with me. I don’t make everything about race and I really don’t want to have a president that shoves it down my throat.
I hope when I added that word that was left out in the post you were not directing that towards me. I don’t curse and I especially do not like being cursed at.
Going to locate my blender.
@ Jennifer
If you’re going to try and take on a persona you really need to learn about how that persona really is. You just don’t come across credibly as what you’re trying to present yourself to be. You are certainly no member of the Democratic Party. You’ve outed yourself several times as a Conservative Republican in the way that you write and the complaints that you make.
See, here’s the deal; I was raised in a Conservative family and Religion, so I know both sides of these arguments very well and I recognize that you don’t.
Interesting that I just got an email this morning about Republican “ringers”.
You’re busted!
@ Tom
How do I come off? I’m a registered democrat, have never voted for a republican in my entire life (though I’m not voting this election cycle) and voted for Kerry and Gore. I have a feeling you might make the same accusations of me. Perhaps people don’t fit perfectly into the molds you place people in?
@ Steve
I’m just gigglin’!
@ Tom
Taking on a persona? Are you kidding me? First, Sarah Palin used her dress to seduce people for their votes and then you stated that she plays the race card and now it’s that I am not credible because of my views? The way I write? PLEASE, tell me you are joking about that!
I am sorry if my views are not what you believe they are or should be. There is no 100% republican or 100% democrat. I think, like everything else, our views with regards to politics are shaped by our life experiences, the way we were raised, and our attitudes.
I offered to show you my voter identification card although I don’t know how that would work on here and I really shouldn’t bother anyway. I am sure you’d find fault with that as well.
For someone who talks about looking at both sides of something and owning one’s one “stuff” you don’t hold yourself to that same standard. I guess it’s easier to just label people and go from there. It doesn’t work that way because things are not always clear cut black or white.
I have even checked out the links you posted. I am not a small minded person, but as I said before, I have my opinions and they will more than likely not change. Your attitude makes me feel even more strongly as I do. It’s plain to me that instead of “seeing both sides of these arguments” you only see things from your[]perspective.
Awful. Winking on TV looking like some hooker waiting to be picked up. My god people where have your senses gone. This woman makes a mockery of females who are trying to be taken serious in the business world. I can’t believe that the press and political pundits would say she did a good job. I hope God here’s my prayers and takes the trance off the American public…YOU NEED HELP AMERICA!
Czieli3309@sbcglobal.net
Ive searched for hrs trying to find out when Palen was a Hockeymom, how many years she did this and for how many kids. also i wanted to know at what leval she had the kids playing at.
My wife and i were what i referred to as hockey parents, we chased out kids around from rink to rink, hockey school to hockey school, and from city to city for 13 years spending allmost all our spare time following their carrers. It was only in high school that the time and cost goes down as most schools pay for most of the cost.
I would have to say that my wife and i spent no less than 5000.00 a year on our two sons each year as they played hockey, probably more on many years, along with several hundred hrs of taking them to practice and games each year along with outside of home tournaments that we spent a lot of money not to consider ou two sons were on different teams one out of every two years because of age differences.
But what leval did Palens kid(s) compete at and for how long? Does anyone know? Was it traveling hockey or just a house league?