John McCain has picked Sarah Palin as his running mate. It’s fair to say people didn’t see that one coming. What do you think?
29
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08
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BBC World Have Your Say 
Given that many have stated and will continue to state that all over the VP pick really does not make any difference; it’s the same here.
i hope that she is going to enjoy her time in the spotlight…
dennis
i think john mccain at least made a decision to get a woman involved in the process….
Dennis
Wrong Julie. While the VP’s position doesn’t matter, it does influence voters. Ie, Palin is more conservative than Mccain is, so the convervative base will be happy. Plus there are many upset Hillary supporters that see this is a win-win. They get a female VP, and get a chance for Hillary to run again in 2012 rather than 2016. So Palin will appeal to female voters and to conservatives, and it took the headlinesn away from Obama.
Great move on Mccain’s part.
@Steve,
I have the right to my belief as much as anyone else. That said, just yesterday the Republican base was writing into the FOX website that planned on staying home and not voting because they do not like him and his VP really didn’t make a difference.
As much as you as come in here and write about how much you hate liberals and Obama; I can’t take anything you say seriously anyway.
Now, I’m entitled to my position and I’m sticking with it. Have a nice day.
Hilarious, McCain picked Sarah Palin as VP. Palin has only a year and half experience as Governor of Alaska and she is under state investigation. Shows how desperate McCain is to gain voters. I thought, having a women on the ticket would have made it harder for me.
Wrong Steve,
He has pick a right wing nut that will never appeal to the majority of Clinton supporters. I’m so glad he picked someone who is an ardent anti-choice and not progressive on any women’s rights issues.
@ Julie
Who suggested you that you didn’t have a right to your opinion?
I agree Julie,
VP makes little difference in the long hall. There will be more media coverage around these two, because it’s an intense election.
You have to admit that Sarah Palin is pretty hot (remember she was in the Ms. Alaska Pageant) and MUCH BETTER on the eyes than Joe Biden. Oh and wait until you see the bikini pics!!! NOT BAD for a mother of 5.
http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=5055328
Oh gee, McCain chose a candidate because of her gender in order to gain votes…. That and she is conservative.
Guess McCain kills 2 birds with one stone there.
It’s kind of playing dirty, but it was a good move if all he cares about is to get into office lol.
this will not have any influence on hard-core Hillary supporters.
I think a good question for Dems to start asking is:
What if something happened to McCain — is Palin ready to be President???
I think any person would say no. Liberal or Conservative, most people would prefer Biden as a back-up to the president.
@ Jessica
“He has pick a right wing nut that will never appeal to the majority of Clinton supporters.”
So were the “i’m voting for mccain” threats of hillary supporters just empty threats, despite mccain being pro-life as well? She’s a woman, Hillary will run again in 2012. Many of them will vote for Mccain now. That you like it doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Just watch and see, never underetsimate how bitter and angry the hillary supporters are. Now they have a female option and a chance for hillary again in 2012.
Are you suggesting women don’t care about “women’s rights” issues? Last I checked, Palin was a woman, but she has to agree with your personal beliefs for her to believe in women’s rights?
@ Jessica
She’s under investigation!? Well that improves my mood a bit. I know actually very little about her other than some frightening speech I heard her make about drilling in the “wasteland” of the Arctic Wildlife Refuge. Yikes! I just really, really hope that the pissed off Hillary supporters can look past gender and see the issues. Regarding FOX news…I trust absolutely nothing out of their mouths.
I’ve read that the next president will likely appoint 3 new Supreme Court justices. I have difficulties imagining hard core Hillary supporters wanting to let McCain and her very conservative VP deciding on that issue.
@Jessica,
Agreed. Seriously yesterday I kept reading over and over on the FOX website under the Veep pick section how many do not trust or like McCain and planned on staying home in November. Today with this “hot” pick they are even bothering to comment. The VP choice isn’t going to make one jot of difference.
Usually the VP choice wouldnt make a different, but McCain is 72 yrs old!!! What’s the life expectancy in the US? What on earth has McCain done!!!!? Does anybody else worry about the possibility of Palin becoming president if the worst does happen to McCain – remember he is 72 today. Remeber that 3am advert…..I am terrified to think that Palin would be the one who had to answer the telephone in bad times. This is a very worrying time for the world. Is McCain seriously thinking that Palin can lead the world against terrorism and world issues!!!! I am still in shock at what he has done…..this could be very very damaging not just for the united states, but also for the world. I thought one could look to the united states as a country for leadership, but Sarah Palin!!? Surely this has to be a joke….a publicity stunt. These are indeed very worrying times!! I think McCains choice of VP surpasses stupidity and is bordering on being dangerous!!
@Jessica,
I meant to say the Republican base is NOT bothering to comment.
@ AEF
What makes you think Obama can do what you think Palin wont be able to do? At least Palin has executive experience (she is the governor of Alaska). What executive experience does obama have. that’s right ABSOLUTELY NONE. So all your concerns about Palin, you should really worry about with on Obama.
@ Shannon
Copied from news:
Gov. Sarah Palin’s own legislature launched a $100,000 investigation earlier this month, as the Associated Press reported, “to determine if Palin dismissed Alaska’s public safety commissioner because he would not fire (a state) trooper, Mike Wooten. Wooten went through a messy divorce from Palin’s sister. Palin has denied the commissioner’s dismissal had anything to do with her former brother-in-law. And she denied orchestrating the dozens of telephone calls made by her husband and members of her administration to Wooten’s bosses.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gWi6yTVfPyJeiTBsQ33SSUiobt8wD92I9NIO0
@ Sarah Palin
The more I read, the more I love McCain’s desperate choice in VP…Palin’s husband works for BP oil.
McCain just did a 360 and slammed on Obama.
This might cause the heaviest defeat in US Presidential Election history.
However McCain and Palin come across as pretty ordinary,while H.Clinton and B.Obama are something a bit special.
@ Jessica
Wow, you wasted no effort to try to dig up dirt. It guess it really pains you to realize Obama is going to lose, and it will be partly due to Palin getting Hillary voters. So now we hold against a candidate the spouse’s job?
@ Bobby Ewing
wow — the Miss Wasilla pageant?? I’m sorry but i do not see pagentry as a respectable experience background for Vice President!!
And Alaska is a very unique part of the US… would this women really be in touch with the issues facing urban areas (poverty, crime, gun control, economics, etc, etc, etc, etc) even suburban areas in the mainland US have larger populations than all of Alaska…. Completely ridiculous.
If we’re attacking the VP candidates in this topic, let’s not forget that Biden had to withdraw from the 1988 race due to plagiarizing a speech he stole from a british politician. He also got caught lying about his standing in his law school class. Those are things that could get you disbarred as an attorney.
@ Steve, you started the dirt digging first on previous threads. So what Jess in NYC has done is nothing new.
steve,
this choice has just lost the republicans election.
the one argument of experiance is out the window. the pandering to the none existend puma’s is not going to work, since women do think and not just vote because for that ticket because a woman is on it. she is so far righ that it is unfunny, plus she is under investigation for what i call is croonies, having the husband of your sister sacked because the divorced and did no like him. plus she has an irritating voice.
i am looking forward to biden ripping het a new one. it’s like throwing a puddel into the ring with a lion.
Great that McCain picks a woman!
Pity she is under investigation in Alaska.
@ Jens
Did Bentsen ripping Quayle a new one get dukakis elected in 1988? It’s okay to cry. Say hello to President Mccain.
@ Steve
You forget McCain has been pro-choice and “liked” by many women rights orgs. This is why man conservatives dislike McCain. He flip-flops on these issues. Now that he has picked an ultra conservative VP so is not friendly on any women’s issues, this will drive the women who considered McCain right back to Obama.
Like you said, never underestimate how angry Hillary supporters are, because now that everything they were fighting for is threaten they will not only support Obama but campaigning for him.
I’m listening to CSPAN. A female caller, who said she’s a republican but voted for Hillary, said she will probably vote for Mccain now due to Palin.
Another caller who is an Obama supporter, called up to say while it was okay to vote for Hillary because she’s a woman, it’s not okay to vote for Palin because she’s a woman. She’s obviously worried about the hillary supporters.
well,
i think the fact that bush is so popular will obviously help the republicans.
just wee side notice. the republicans could barley fill a hall of 7000 and as far as i rembmer yesterday they had to turn away thousands in denver.
and by the obama will ripp mccain a new one as well. grandpa is just not mentaly agail enough.
i hope every american listen to obamas speech and finally realizes that he is the clear choice based on the fact that he will be fighting for the average person in terms of taxes and health care and energy. plus ending this useless war.
mccain will be good for the top 5%, the rest will be flusheds down the toilet just like bush flushed them.
@ Jessica
George HW Bush was pro choice until he joined reagan’s ticket. Politicians change their “views” to get them elected.
Don’t you think Hillary supporters thought of the Supreme court when they said off the bat they would vote for Mccain now that Obama won out? They will, if they want her to be president that badly, they WILL vote for Mccain. Because honestly, if Obama wins, hillary will be a bit too old in 2016 to run again. It’s NOW or never for HIllary supports. now meaning in 4 years or never. MANY will vote for Mccain because they feel Hillary is entitled to be president.
@ steve,
yeh executive power over a land mass with 700,000 citizens… she was mayor of a town with 5,000 citizens! she holds an undergrad degree in journalism. where is her economic and social issues background?? do you really think this would be a viable potential president of the US? or even a viable advisor?
@ Colleen.
Abraham Lincoln was a self taught attorney, no formal education. I’m sure Illinois had less people then than Alaska does today. Are you suggesting that Lincoln wouldn’t be qualified to be president, let alone VP?
lol, CSPAN call in, Could you hear the drool sloshing in the background.
Can somebody list her credentials. I mean really, with McCains age and health, you have to consider she might get “called to duty”. So what has she done in Washington?
steve,
you know people do have morals, why would a democrate vote for a lying party, so that hillary has another chance. don’t you think we had enough of neo-cons lying to us. and who gives the garantee that she would win the nomination in 12???? all these disgrunteled hillary supportyers are made up by karl rove and fox news. yes they were sad and bitter they lost, BUT NO they will not vote republican. plus do not forget the youth. they have cell phones and are not polled regularly. they certainly will not vote for grandpa.
@ steve
that was 150 years ago…. i could be wrong but i think a couple things have changed since then. 🙂
additionally you often raise the argument of obama not having experience… so why not rephrase your question with Obamam instead of Palin? in the case of either candidate, that aregument has no meaning/logic behind it.
@ Jens
Ever hear of a “reagan democrat” before? Many democrats voted for Ronald Reagan.But you think this is impossible to contemplate for Mccain? Time for you to accept the truth, you will be very upset on November 5th. Better get used to it and begin the process of accepting that Obama has almost no chance of winning.
shows how desperate the Rep. camp is, going after the 18m. votes. how about substance?
@ Colleen
last I checked, Obama is running for President, not VP, so I think logically it would make more sense to worry about his experience than hers. All she’s going to do is sit in the Senate and vote if there’s a tie. She has more executive experience than he does. Sorry if you can’t handle the truth.
steve,
they voted for reagan, because carter was a dushbag. look at who has ruined this great nation…….we cannot afford another 4-8 years of this, even bitter democrates see this. taking part in a poll and voting in the booth is different. you stand there and realize that another 4 years of bush is truely going to wreck this country.
i will send you a box of tissues so you can wipe your eyes on the 5th of nov.
@ Jens
You just need to grasp just how shrewd McCain is versus an inexperienced Obama.
Palin is a great choice and ready to become VP.
This certainly throws Obama off track as you can tell by the stunned silence from them.
@ Steve
LOL– I didn’t have to dig up anything, all major networks and media outlets have the investigation of Palin on their front page. That’s politics.
It pains you to see that McCain-Palin have nothing on Obama-Biden.
PS–McCain’s own camp issued a bio on her, which included info on her husband. I read both sides of the issues. It seems you do selective reading on issues that suit your agenda.
Mrs. Palin seems like a good choice. But, I wonder if it might have the opposite effect of pushing Mrs. Clinton’s supporters away from McCain, because they might feel like Mrs. Palin took the fast track—-similar to views on Mr. Obama, that he doesn’t have the substance and hasn’t done-the-time to deserve the job.
If you can make a case that Mrs. Palin was chosen because of her gender, you can make a similar case about Mr. Obama based on race. It will be hard for Democrats to argue against her on those grounds.
Mr. Obama also contradicted his message by picking the ‘insider’ Mr. Biden. If you can call Mrs. Palin not ‘experineced,’ you can call also call Mr. Biden not ‘change.’
It does a disservice to women to assume that they will vote for a pro-life Rebublican who is in favour of drilling in ANWAR, for example, interchangeably with a pro-choice, pro-environment Democrat. They are not interchangeable. If this is all the “women vote” boils down to, disregarding issues in favour of the tenuous idea of “identity”, maybe we should give it back.
Sorry Jessica, try again:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE3DB143FF93BA2575AC0A961948260
What he did should have gotten him expelled from law school, prevented from even taking the bar, or being a member of the bar.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2607505/Joe-Biden-plagiarised-Neil-Kinnock-speech.html
If I had to pick someone, someone who does something unsavory to help one’s sibling vs. a compulsive liar, I would pick the one who helped a family member in an unsavory way.
@ steve,
well in your argument you were talking about Lincoln, who was a president, and one of the most influential and successful presidents in the history of the US at that. so in your argument you are saying that questioning a candidate’s specific experience, whether it be a presidential candidate or a vice presidential candidate, is not necessarily an indicator of his/her potential success.
however, you constantly questioning obama’s experience.
dan,
you cannot have it both ways, critize obama for lack of experience and laud palin’s lack of experience.
what do you expect obama to do. she literally just gave her speech 5 minutes ago. mccain might have been just a litlle to shrewed for his own good. i would have voted for him 8 years ago, but he is past the experation date and i am frankly not convinced that palin is the right choice.
When one looks at the crazies, radicals, socialists, one-worlders and other fringe groups that make up the Democrats people will stop to ask if they want those people in the Whitehouse.
Do you want the “911 was an inside job” whack jobs controlling America? Of course not.
McCain made a very shrewd choice.
dan,
obamma just congratulated her and was stating that this choice is further evidence that politics are changing. prteey gracefull, me thinks.
@ Jens
“i will send you a box of tissues so you can wipe your eyes on the 5th of nov”
You act like I care about who wins. I have stated many times, that I will not vote. I will make no effort or take a second out of my day to support any of these narcissists. I just am pissed off that the Democrats (who I am a member of) picked another unelectable candidate.
dan,
are you suggesting that the leadership of the democrates has accused this administartion of 9/11. i think you are stepping on to very thin ice.
As a former supporter of Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin has NO draw for those of us who campaigned for Hillary. We supported Hillary not because she was a WOMAN, but because she advocated FOR women. Get a clue! Sarah Palin has done NOTHING to advance women’s rights. How desperate and irresponsible for McCain to pick someone who is unexperienced and NOT READY to be assume the responsibilities of President. Give me a break! A beauty queen! But, I guess she’ll be standing next to McCain when Cindy cannot be there. Just shows us what bad judgment McCain has.
@ Dan
That’s only the most extreme part of the left, the Berkely types that said 9/11 was an inside job and all the jews called in sick that day. Obama is not one of those, though he is a socialist.
@ Count Iblis
Exactly!
@ Steve
Women feel entitled to be equal to men all cases. Hillary’s supports have priorities, the issues are more important that the person. Hillary will be out and campaigning for Obama, her supporters will absolutely follow.
Ridiculous! McCain said Obama was inexperienced, has he read his running mates record? Do Republicans think that women will support a woman just because she is a woman regardless of credentials, experience, knowledge and character? Please, the idea of this ticket makes me nauseous.
setve,
so you would be happy with 4 more years of war mongering???? take the time out and give the chance of some changes at least a chance…..
plus, i am not saying that palin is bad person. in fact she has done some compelling things like stopping the bridge to nowhere.
McCain has grossly underestimated the cynicism of the American voter who only will see Palin as a tactical choice to win votes. At 72, the focus on his running mate will be on her qualifications to be commander in chief should he die in office.
He just guaranteed Obama the White House.
Jens, did you listen to Obama or Biden speak? They didn’t exactly sound like peaceniks. Biden said he will hold “russia accountable” and “support the people of Georgia” That sounds like fighting words. Obama in his speech said he wants to step up the fighting against al qaeida and the Taliban (which will surely anger muslims worldwide). Yet only Mccain is a warmonger?
@Jens
Palin is a Governor with TONS of administrative experience compared to Obama’s 143 days of being in the Senate, sponsoring no bill, producing no works of scholarship. Add to that Obama has the Rev. Wright millstone around his neck leave one to only one conclusion. McCain did the right thing.
@ Jessica
You are very wrong, I would guess at least 20% of Hillary supporters who desperately want her to be president will vote for Mccain. Do you watch the news? They even admit this.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/26/clinton.backers/
http://www.gallup.com/poll/105691/McCain-vs-Obama-28-Clinton-Backers-McCain.aspx
It’s okay to cry.
@Jens
We gave a chance to Jimmy Carter and will be forever sorry that the killer rabbit missed its mark.
Carter, the father of modern day Islamic Terrorism, is the absolutely worst President this country ever had and since leaving office has showed that he sides with the Islamic extremists. We cannot take that chance again with Obama….not in a nuclear world.
Apparently, the Republican party thinks that all women are created equal. It seems that they’re trying to win over Hillary Clinton’s supporters by putting a woman on the ticket even though Governor Palin is diametrically opposed to Sentor Clinton on just about every issue. I think that most voters are smarter than to be fooled like that.
Its going to tear feminists apart…. Which do they do, support their fellow woman, or fight for ‘womens rights’ in the form of abortion?
*Sits back and grabs some popcorn*
@ Jens
Absolutely!
@ Steve
“You act like I care about who wins. I have stated many times, that I will not vote.”
Sure, I believe you… Especially as toy spend your time trashing anything Obama or Hillary related and proclaim how brilliant you feel McCain is, so at the very least you do care or else would not “waste” your time on this.
Is Anybody Suspicious that McCain picked Palin just to pick up a younger wife? He has done it before. I think I remember a “news Radio” episode where the station owner ran for president just to meet women. lol. Watch out Cindy. Once a cheater …
@ Jessica
I’m not voting unless it’s at gunpoint. I will not enable any of these mentally ill candidates. If you want to waste your time by standing in line and voting for a self serving narcissist, then more power to you. But don’t accuse me of doing something I have no intention of doing. I defend Mccain because he’s electable. The Democrats, AGAIN, picked someone who isn’t electable.
how to show that the commander-in-chief can handle 3am phonecalls without mentioning current affairs that involves defence matters? would political, rather than military, resolution be sufficiently convincing?
Brett
many women will vote for Mccain now just to get the VP and to get a shot at hillary in 4 years.
That the posters on here are so mad and insulting towards palin is because they know I speak the truth.
As it stands,, 28% of clinton supports say they will vote for mccain. Will Palin mean more will?
@ Brett,
feminists will not support palin just because she is female — she does not seem to be a progressive woman at all.
I do not support the Bush administration at all, but i wouldve rather McCain pick Condi Rice.
Lets face it, when it comes time to vote, conservative, republican men do not think women can hold office. They are gender-bias and it is no secret that the conservative male vote clinches important swing states like Florida. McCain has just conceded the presidency.
The first 2 years of Bill Clinton’s administration and the last 2 years of Bill Clinton’s administration were disasters for the world.
Jimmy Carter was an unmitigated disaster and it can be successfully argued he wanted the destruction of America.
The point is that Democrats have lost the ability to lead the country from the office of the Presidency.
It is one thing to see the world as you want it to be and quite another to deal with it that way.
This is our made-for-TV election pushing a new cast member.
What we are going to see is all image, personality and attitude.
We don’t even get to learn much about the issues that the two official parties want to argue about and we will not get any real push from our infotainment press on issues both parties want to ignore.
Expect many superficial sound bites between now and when we vote one off the island in November. Expect only mild changes in direction in foreign and domestic affairs in 2009.
Don in Oakland California
@ Dwight in Cleveland
opting for a younger, married politician over an heiress? what a thought! though, does make one wonder why a soldier would pick a female running mate.
in this era of expanding world population and decreasing world resources, gov palin should have started her reform in her own home by having only 2 children: “think globally, act locally” as we used to say in the 1960’s. not only did she ignore this imperative, at age 43 she chose to get pregnant and deliver a down’s syndrome child without respect for or consideration of the pain and distress that this syndrome can cause the child so afflicted. just more human arrogance in general and in specific as it affects persons in power, whether left or right, liberal or tory, democrat or republican. her speech today was terrific, but her actions drown out any words she could utter.
ALL of us, 1st, 2nd, 3rd world alike, MUST bring consumption and preservation of resources into balance.
that said, i have no confidence that humans are able to put their selfish interests aside in favor or the greater good. we’ve not evolved at all since the fall of the Rioman Empire.
steve,
please do not insult the intelligence of women. women will not just vote for a women, because she is a woman. she makes the ticket virtually unelectable for any democrate male or femal, who was thinking of supporting mccain. she is so far right it is scary. just think of mccain coping it and she is going to select suprem court judges.
lol, She was recently quoted as saying, “I don’t even know what the Vice President does.” This in light of the most powerful VP in American history.
Well Palin, Turns out he conducts secret metings with big oil companies on tax payer dollars that end in a trippleing of gas prices. He goes hunting the weekend before his big case in front of the supreme court. He has secret intelligence agents outed when their husband doesn’t agree with their policies. (We already know you know how to do that.) He shoots his friends in the face. He gets his best friends and personal secretaries pardoned for their crimes. He claims executive privilege when it suites him and then he claims he is part of the legislative branch when that better suites him. He gets his friends and stock interest “no-bid” contracts before invading a sovern nation on forced bad intelligence. It would be helpful if you made statements 180 degrees out of sync with your actions. For example you might call the invasion of Iraq “a mistake that would lead to a quagmire.” Then be the biggest promoter for its invasion. (since you have only been in office a little over a year and a half, it might be hard to find that stuff.)
@ Jens
I’m sorry if you didn’t like my links. I guess you can’t handle the truth. Are the women polled in them or featured in them insulting the intelligence of women as well? I’m not making it up, I’m just the messenger. You don’t like the truth. Time to accept that Mccain is going to win this election and no whining, foot stomping or anything will change that.
Kenny in florida.
You have to wonder who the conservative, republican thinker hates more,
black people or women. We can only judge by the fact that the lowest paid demographic in the US is the black man. Pay wise it is even better to be a black woman.
@ Steve,
RE Biden vs Palin
LOL— Now, you expect politicians to be perfect youth?
I prefer Biden who made an error as a kid in school as apposed to Palin who abused her power while on a tax payer salaries. Now thousands of tax payer dollars are being wasted because of her unethical behavior which she swore an oat to uphold as a governor. I’m sure you condemned George Bush for his academic record at Yale and his illegal drug activity.
Save your tissues, you’ll need them when Obama-Biden win.
@ Jeff
While I agree people shouldn’t have many children (in fact, I think people should be licensed in order to have kids), you suggesting that a child is better off dead than live with down’s syndrome is heartless. I’ve volunteered with many people with Down’s syndrome, and while they need a lot of help, they are happy as a clam, it’s those that take care of them that have the problems. So Palin made the choice to take extra responsibility for her child, rather than kill it.
@ Jessica
You seem to think that you are a “kid in school” while in LAW SCHOOL. He did this in law school, not in third grade. was I a “kid” in law school. You do realize, that in the US, the minimum age for law students realistically is 22, presuming you went right after college. That’s an adult. not a “kid”. He was 26 when he graduated law school. If that’s a “kid” to you, I guess there’s no point in discussing this anymore.
@ Steve,
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there will be McCain supporters jumping ship, I do, believe we just heard one such person as a speaker on WHYS…. So naturally, some Clinton supporters will do the same.
@ Dwight in Cleveland
Good question. I guess I can only say McCain has succeeded the presidency with absolute certainty if the running mate was a black woman.
I think Steve and Jessica should get married!
steve,
some of these people are bitter, fine they will vote mccain, but it is not 28%. they will clam down and smell the coffee, that 4 or 8 years more of bush will kill this country.
McCain’s VP pic will NOT snag him many of the Hillary supporters. My husband was a deligate at the DNC in Denver, and he spoke to many disappointed Hillary supporters. Their upset is on an emotional level, and most of them are now open to Barack Obama. Let’s be clear about this; most of Hillary’s supporters are intelligent and thoughtful people. When they’ve had time to think it through, they’ll stay with the Democratic party. They are smart enough to see through this ploy, and they will NOT vote for a female who is pro-guns and pro-life. As all good feminists know, not all women are going to support women’s causes. Some women do more to protect patriarchy in a week than an army of men could hope to accomplish in a lifetime.
will,
that is a bad idea, since they certainly will produce a scizophrenic child 😉
@ Will Rhodes
Yes, they should. It would be a typical modern marriage, Two people who were never meant to be together, getting married just to later get divorced.
@ Will
Good a WHYS wedding!
I concur with your points on Winston Churchill. He has been remembered well.
My point was it must have hurt him badly to be thrashed at the time.
More global warming denial.
More science denial.
More anti-abortion.
More nepotism.
More of the same – McCain/Bush/Palin
kenny,
then obama would have had to select a handicapped, gay, obese, hispanic.
@Steve,
Converning the poll on women you quoted, you cannot discount that some people are slaves and don’t know it.
Selena
It did – his memoirs state as much, but the very Statesman that he was he understood and that the power is with the voters and the people.
A truly great man of which there are so many lacking these days.
Jaki
I still cannot understand how anyone can claim to be pro-life and pro-guns, guns kill people.
She probably is full on death penalty, too. Pro-life? Oh.
Pro-life should really state what it really is: Pro-anti-choice for women, because ‘pro-life’ doesn’t include anything of the male gender. Pro-life is to be against women’s choice.
Obama said that the abortion rate has to come down, but that doesn’t simply mean overturning Roe Vs Wade.
I love winstons quote on the average voter.
sad but true.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Winston Churchill
Oh! I love weddings! 😉
@ Steve
I was refurring to his maturity, at 22 he was still very much in his youth.
in 1965, yes 1965, he made an error in misunderstood the rules of citation and footnoting. Dean and the Law School Review Board to determined Biden’s merits and AGREED it was a mistake in citation.
Nothing to say about Palin wasting the precious tax payer dollars?
If die-hard Hillary supporters vote for McCain (a) for some addle-headed idea that it will cement a Hillary victory in 2012, or (b) out of some knee-jerk reaction to the VP’s gender, all I can feel is a wonderment at such dazzling ignorance.
Oh, I almost forgot: contempt and embarrassment, as well.
Sue in Ohio
@ Will and Selena
You’re not funny! 😛
I would end up dead or in jail and Steve would be the other.
@ steve.
not all down’s syndrome individuals are alike. as the label ‘syndrome’ implies, there are varying degrees of severity and it is not possible to know in utero how severely the child will be affected. some down’s children have severe, irreparable congenital heart anomalies; others develop a form of acute leukemia that’s difficult to treat. i believe your experience with down’s children and adults is biased. you haven’t witnessed nor provided medical care for the worst end of the syndrome’s spectrum. they’re not all happy campers.
i wouldn’t fault gov palin for deciding to rear a down’s child. she is at fault, however, in choosing to become pregnant after the age of 39, when the incidence of down’s syndrome rises dramatically. face it: the decision to have a 5th (or any) child after the age of 39 is just plain selfish and irresponsible. those considering such a decision must remember such behaviour puts the individual to be conceived at great risk.
@ Steve
If I don’t reply to another one of your fictitious points, it doesn’t mean I concede, it means I’m in a meeting. I’ll respond later.
@Will on ABORTION,
(Just so we get this out of the way—I am pro-choice.)
If people are indeed ‘anti-abortion,’ and they believe the not-yet-a-life-growth is indeed a life, then they would or should have the moral authority to take a gun or bomb and kill the people they consider to be murdering babies. But of course the soon-to-be-aborted are not really the equivalent of a life in the common sense way that we think of one. If they did believe entirely what they preach—they would have no moral choice but to resort to violence.
I think Obama ought to call up McCain now and thank him.
Seriously – McCain’s people are arguing that Obama’s “just a celebrity” and they pick a former beauty queen? They’re saying he has no experience and their VP candidate has less than two years on the job?
Even more seriously – McCain just changed the course of the election, and not in a good way for him. One of the reaons people were talking about electing Obama – not Obama saying this, mind you – was the historic nature of electing the first African-American President. By picking a woman, that argument is gone – it’s historic either way. This means a straight comparison of the four candidates and Obama/Biden comes out ahead.
Palin was a Union member, her husband is still a United Steelworkers union member, and of course Palin is a woman, that is why McCain picked her, to try and get union and womens votes..
But Republicans are anti-Union and have always fought against womens rights, it was Republicans who defeated the ERA, Equal Rights Amendment for women and is is Republicans who have always been anti-worker.
Any woman and /or union member who votes for a Republican is voting against their own self interests, they are a traitor to themselves.
Incredible.
Colleen August 29, 2008 at 6:40 pm,
What’s “progressive” about being pro-abortion? I would think the progressive stance is the pro-life one since that allows life to progress.
So is the motto of the left “better off dead”? Who else should we decide who shouldn’t live? Sounds a lot like the nazis to me.
Wow. I listen to the BBC. First time here. STEVE must be the most popular person here.
Palins qualification as an executive leadership experience surpasses that of McCain and Obama. It does not mean she has been or will be successful.
Benson destroyed “You are no John Kennedy” Quayle. The debate will be a non-factor. Hillary will be their proxy and Palin will be so dis-credited that Biden will just need to smile and swing at softball questions in the debate.
Palin is qualified to be Commander in Chief because she is commander of the National Guard and her son is going to Iraq. My son is going to primary school, that does not make me qualified to be a principal. I wonder if the Alaskan National Guard is comparable to the largest military force in the world?
McCain should have picked Lieberman, yes the right wing would have eaten him up. Those are the same people that vote a party line not a person or belief, they would have voted for McCain. A moderate like Lieberman would have pulled more Hillary supporters than a token female pick ever would.
Last night Obama gave Americans hope that we will return to a position of respect in the view of the world. History will mark today as the day after America and Obama started down the path of change, not the day that Palin was selected as a VP. She will be a footnote in the history books and the end of McCain’s long distinguished career.
As I mentioned before the extreme right will vote a party line. They parrot what they are fed by extremists such as Rush and power greedy men like Rove.
Go ahead Steve we’ve heard it before
steve August 29, 2008 at 6:51 pm,
I agree 100% with that. Yes, that was pretty heartless, Jeff.
@ Jessica
“Mistake in citation” right. I’ve been to law school. I was on law review. I know how much emphasis they give in law school for you to properly cite. Very improbably excuse, what he did would get anyone today expelled from law school. We had someone on law review who plagiarized their Note, we confronted that person, he insisted he wrote it, then he got expelled when we found the source he copied from. That’s what happens.
Also, Jessica, for being a kid at 22-23 when he was a 1L, I got PUBLISHED at that age. Do many “kids” get published and have their work in every law library in the nation? He was an ADULT, and he cheated, and they gave him a pass.
What about him plagiarizing a speech and withdrawing from an election? Was he still a kid then?
the entire abotion debates is especially hypcritical if it is lead by men. does anyone think that such a discion is made lightly…. and i know what i am talking about.
steve,
this is 40 years back, and has no bearing on today.
Jens is so right. It’s easy to be anti-abortion when you can’t get pregnant, mister!
Really Jens, so if I cheated in law school 40 years ago, DESPITE being subject to ABA rules, just the passage of time will heal that wound? I would get disbarred for it. What about him plagiarizing a speech in 1988? He WITHDREW from the election because of it. I guess he was a kid then too.
@ Jens
“the entire abotion debates is especially hypcritical if it is lead by men. does anyone think that such a discion is made lightly…. and i know what i am talking about.”
Then logically, any discussion about childsupport would be hypocritical if it were lead by women, right?
steve,
it apparently has not damaged his political carreer, has it now. bring-up the same old same old that has not damaged him is not going to help the rep.
@ Chad
“As I mentioned before the extreme right will vote a party line. They parrot what they are fed by extremists such as Rush and power greedy men like Rove.
Go ahead Steve we’ve heard it before”
So I take it all the “change” and “no more of the same” slogans isn’t parrotting for some reason? Did you hear those 5 “regular people” speak at the convention last night? All they did was parrot the “change” “no more of the same” stuff.
Steve,
apparently biden did qute kinnock.
from the huffington post
The Los Angeles Times reported that when Sen. Joe Biden ran for president in 1987, he “was accused of plagiarism when he did not credit Neil Kinnock, then leader of the British Labor Party, for much of his stump speech.” The New York Times and the Associated Press made similar reports. But they did not note that Biden reportedly had credited Kinnock, as The Washington Post reported at the time: “John Quinlan, a reporter for the Sioux City Journal, said his notes showed Biden said he was quoting Kinnock when he used the same passage in a speech Aug. 14. Stories in The [New York] Times, The Boston Globe and other newspapers also said Biden had used the rhetoric and credited Kinnock for it.”
Read the whole story here.
@ Will
“I still cannot understand how anyone can claim to be pro-life and pro-guns, guns kill people. ”
I own guns and I’ve never killed people, nor will I ever kill people. Ted Kennedy killed his girlfriend though.
“Then logically, any discussion about childsupport would be hypocritical if it were lead by women, right?”
No you are loosing me. where is the logic in this?
Re Sarah Palin:
———————————————————————————————————-
———– Like I stated before, when Obama picked Biden, McCain picked up the mantle of the candidate for change.
Don’t know much about Palin, which is why McCain picked her. Less to pick apart, and now McCain is running with as the ball as Obama has to find a new identity.
Palin’s husband is a blue collar type worker in some rugged professions which makes her quite a bit more than some isolated politician. She’s young for this level of politics, hot enough to go against Obama Girl, and she’s fresh off a series of major reforms resulting in the bringing down of the Old Alaskan Guard.
Brilliant of McCain to pluck her from the coming backlash of the Alaskan status quo. Of course with reform and change comes changes many don’t like. Drilling for oil off Cali/Floriduh, and possibly Anwar eventually.
I’m guessin’ Obama was forced into a compromised position by having to deal with the Mr. and Ms. Slick dynasty.
Well, it was good while it lasted, but yet it still ain’t over until it’s over, so Obama best tinker with his superchargers. The old warhorse has out manuvered him near his moment of triumph and pulled an Ace from the bottom of the deck on him to boot.
Remember, it’s the independent vote that they need to be elected, and other than being black, Obama is now the status quo for them, whereas McCain the rebel, the fighter, the reformer.
We shall see how it comes down.
@Jens
LOL It is Steve logic. The same logic he used when he said he owns guns but will never kill anyone, yet Ted Kennedy did.
Wow, Palin actually talked about Hillary blasting through the glass ceiling in her speech. You can throw real world economic and military strategies out of this race folks, this president is going to be elected on pure emotion. This race will be a complete mockery, I can see it already.
@ Jens
http://law.richmond.edu/jolt/v12i3/article10.pdf (see pg. 15)
steve,
i would call it paraphrasing and using similar imagary. plus he quoted that neil kinnock gave a similar speech.
KINNOCK: Why am I the first Kinnock in a thousand generations to be able to get to university? Why is Glenys the first woman in her family in a thousand generations to be able to get to university? Was it because our predecessors were thick? Does anybody really think that they didn’t get what we had because they didn’t have the talent or the strength or the endurance or the commitment? Of course not. It was because there was no platform upon which they could stand.
BIDEN: Why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go to a university? My ancestors, who worked in the coal mines in northeast Pennsylvania and who would come up after twelve hours and play football for four hours? It’s not because they weren’t as smart. It’s not because they didn’t work as hard. It was because there was no platform on which they could stand.
@ Jens
I’m focusing on his law school experience. He plagiarized there, and he did it again when he was older. He FAILED his course and had to retake, whereas today, he would have been expelled from school.
Why is the BBC always so sombre when discussing the Republicans? I heard Kim Ghattas (sp?) reporting a few hours ago on the World Service on the Palin choice and she sounded like she was at a funeral. Yet when BBC reporters concentrate on the Democrats (which is most of the time, of course) they are as excited as groupies at a rock concert.
Maybe someone from the BBC is reading this blog and will take note of the complaints and make sure that they at least try to do justice to the Republican Convention.
Oh, hang on, this is the BBC.
@ Steve
He was in school, and he made a mistake. Nobody is perfect. If the only problem people can find with Biden are petty little things he did 20 years ago, then I have no problems with him.
steve,
yes it quotes that he did commit plagerism, but but the article is on cyberplagarisme, hardly a problem in 1965……
@Steve,
You are beginning to sound like a regular pickananny!
steve,
so what. he was not kicked-out, he admitted to it and rettook the class. what is the big deal?????? it was over 40 years ago when he was in his early twentys. steve hand on heart and tell me you did not one or the other incorrect thing in your life.
@ Bryan
“Why is the BBC always so sombre when discussing the Republicans?”
It’s tough to fake a good mood when you walk onto the Deathstar too. Bush Vader and Rove Sydius just don’t inspire light heartedness in most people. I don’t think it’s intentional.
@ Nick
he was in law school, not in 8th grade. He was subject to ABA rules of ethical conduct. People in my law school got expelled for the very thing he did, especially when you rely on one source. I find it shocking he even got admitted to the bar after that happened.
@ Jens
I didn’t break ABA rules when I was in law school. Did you know that you are forbidden even from working your 1L year in law school if you are a full time student, and you could be denied bar membership if you work at the bar finds out? He was a law student, subject to very specific rules. He wasn’t learning philosophy, he was learning law, where there are governing rules of conduct both as an attorney, and as a law student. He committed the worst act possible other than cheating on an exam. In a writing course, which he cheated on, you don’t even have exams. You are graded solely by the papers you write. So that’s the equivalent of having cheated on an exam. Remember, law school, not 8th grade.
Please read this:
http://indianalawblog.com/archives/2005/12/law_plagiarism.html
steve,
this is an articel writen in 2005, again about cyberplagarism, which is a hugh issue. his case is in 1965 and they just might have had a different rule. apparently the board decided in his favour, and not because he came from a rich background……just let it lie, you seem to be the only one who is up in arms about it. and no i did not accuse you of any major misdeeds, we all are fallable.
@ Steve
Nobody is saying he didn’t screw up, but even the law let’s you out of prison after you’ve had time to think about what you did. He’s had over 20 years, and plagiarism isn’t exactly shooting a friend in the face.
@ Jens
The article I asked you to read quoted another thing about Plagiarism in law school, not about cyberplagiarism. And what’s the difference? Plagiarism is Plagiarism despite the medium one uses. It’s taking someone else’s words and portraying them as your own without giving proper credit to the source.
I kind’a saw it coming.
One commentator on an NPR call-in show said that since McCain doesn’t stand much chance against Obama, he has nothing to lose by “throwing the dice” and try to attract disaffected Hillary supporters.
The only thing that bothers me about Sarah Palin, though, is how casually she entered politics. After she gave a short auto-bio on TV this afternoon, it was like she tripped over the carpet and, Oops, she fell into the governor’s office.
I like a little premeditation in my presidential candidates. Great projects like bridges, levees and dams take so long to complete that the prime mover is often in the old folks’ home before the project is finished. Eisenhower didn’t live long enough to see his Interstate Highway system completed. But he knew he wouldn’t. That’s why leaders need to be visionaries, not “Accidental Tourists.”
Barack Obama, on the other hand, probably decided to be president when he was 5.
But, all in all, I was very pleased to see John McCain pick a woman to be vice-president. Call-ins on a right-wing radio program (Laura Ingraham) were ecstatic, even the men, and our right-wingers tend to be a chauvinistic bunch.
I was only disappointed that McCain didn’t pick Condoleeza Rice for veep. I console myself that McCain’s trying to distance himself form the Bush administration, and Condee would only be the elephant in the room, a role Bill Clinton has apparently taken on that role for the Democrats.
–Unsurprised in Louisville, Kentucky, US.
@ Jens
Consequences of Plagiarism in Law School.
Law schools take plagiarism extremely seriously. An investigation of student plagiarism is one of the few things that professors feel they are morally required to pursue, even though it means a lot of time, effort, and, if proven, sorrow. Depending on the particular law school and gravity of the conduct, plagiarism might lead to minor punishments, such as failure of the particular course, to severe castigation, such as expulsion or dismissal from law school.(19)
Investigations for plagiarism in law school often reappear when candidates seek bar admission. Cases illustrate that students who have committed plagiarism in law school have been prohibited from taking the bar exam and from practicing law. For example, a Delaware Supreme Court decision (20) stemmed from a petitioner’s desire to avoid disclosure of the extraordinary facts surrounding his failed attempt to cover up a charge of plagiarism in law school. Trying to hide his plagiarism, the student apparently forged statements and fabricated testimony. His false materials included the signature of a District of Columbia notary public, several letters from nonexistent U.S. Army officers, and letters that forged the seal and name of the C.I.A. The court upheld the Board of Examiners’ determination that the petitioner failed to show that he was a person of good moral character and fit to practice law.
On one occasion, a single act of plagiarism was not sufficient to bar a candidate from admission forever. In 1988, a divided Minnesota Supreme Court (21) admitted a petitioner who confessed to plagiarizing substantial portions of a research paper on products liability. The Minnesota court was swayed by the petitioner’s remorse and recounted a painful scrutiny of the petitioner’s work this way:
At the hearing, counsel for the Board dissected the paper line by line and phrase by phrase. Again and again, petitioner admitted responsibility as he initialled each plagiarized passage. Petitioner also attempted to explain the incident to the Board at the hearing. He cited his wife’s health, computer problems, stress in his family.(22)
Even though the petitioner was admitted to the bar, all would agree that it is best to avoid any possibility of plagiarism while in law school. Furthermore, problems associated with plagiarism do not disappear once you leave law school. As long as you are communicating with others in writing, something attorneys do all the time, you must be concerned with plagiarism. Thus, plagiarism after one passes the bar is also a possibility.*
steve,
you better be carefull then…………
sure you are using only your own words in the unique combination???? is that why you edited your post?
i do understand the reason why plagerism has to be viewed as crime. you know i have writen and contributed over 20 scientific publications and correct students work. i know the problem tooo well.
all i am saying the board in case of biden has let him retatke it. over and done with. if that is all he has ever done wrong so be it.
@ Jens
Plagiarism isn’t a crime, though I suppose it would be if you did it in something that earned you money. It just violates school rules and ethical rules. You don’t go to jail for plagiarizing a law school paper. However, ethical conduct violations in law school are VERY VERY VERY serious. When I wrote my Law Review note, every single assertion of fact or law, I had to put in support for, being a footnote. I had to properly cite the source, in proper bluebook format. I had to do this for my legal writing classes, and my appellate advocacy brief also. It’s common in law to copy a bunch of what other people write. That’s pretty much what a case decision or a brief looks like, but you cite to your source. Look up any caselaw, and you’ll see that most if not all of it is citations to other cases. The arguments you make in a brief usually are based upon arguments made in other cases. But it’s in your benefit to cite to the source, so the judge knows is the source is mandatory or not.
It’s a VERY serious thing and I don’t know how he wasn’t expelled for that. There’s no more serious offense he could have committed other than attacking people.
Nick in USA August 29, 2008 at 8:43 pm,
Thanks for the laugh, but you gotta admit it proves the BBC’s bias. I followed the BBC’s reporting closely when Labour got the worst beating in a few generations by the Tories in the local elections and then, to add insult to injury, had their blue-eyed boy toppled from the mayorship of London by a Tory. The BBC alternately rained on the Tory parade and huddled around Labour as you do when you commiserate with a dear friend who has suffered a grievous loss.
And people on this blog try to tell me with a straight face that the BBC is not biased in favour of Labour and the Democrats.
steve,
i used crime for lack of a better word…..
they did let him through and case is over…… you cannot retry him on this matter.
if it was that bad the republicans would have rolled that one out by now.
so she’s a corrupt ultraconservative… how does he think she can rally women supporters? isn’t that in itself a slap in the face to the female demographic, assuming that women vote on gender alone and not issues or experience?
as much as it would be nice to see women break the glass ceiling, it should not be at the expense of flushing america down the toilet for the next four years and beyond. My vote is still democratic, regardless of the gender of Mccain’s VP pick.
Obama fought through tooth and nail through a tough primary he was not expected to win. He had grass roots support and won against a seasoned and well funded rival.
Palin fell over the line because she is pretty.
However, for VP maybe that is all that is required
@Bryan
Im sure the BBC won’t be biased because they know you are watching.
This has been an interesting afternoon as the buzz in the media is all Sarah Palin. Obama who???
Obama must now be aware that he is a child playing with the big boys and he isn’t even a ranked amateur.
Another issue with Joe Biden, since he’s from Delaware, he’s in the credit card companies’ pockets, hence his support for the bankruptcy reform laws, which was a gift to the credit card industry. Think that will win him support with young voters?
http://www.pacificviews.org/weblog/archives/000966.html
@ Rick
Isn’t that a little patronizing? She was selected because she was pretty? I suppose Obama should have picked Mary Landrieu as his VP? Maybe Obama did well because he is so charismatic? I seem to recall certain voters swooning over Obama becuse he is “cute”
@ steve
why did she get picked then?
@Rick
If you read politico’s article about how Obama won you will see him for the ruthless conniving person he is. They executed a strategy to win and stayed on plan.
He did not win because he is “cute”.
Sarah Palin was picked beacuse she is QUALIFIED….gee how is that for something different.
Wow ~ I haven’t even finished reading but one thing got my attention. On a blog a month or two ago I mentioned that I would be concerned who McCain picked as VP because he very well might die during the presidency if he was elected. The funny thing is I got ripped apart for discriminating against him based on his age.
I have to say this is not discrimination this is reality. I believe the life expectancy of a man in the US is 71. Given his ripeness and background / injuries I think it is quite valid to discuss concern over his age and who the VP would be to replace him should he pass. I don’t know very much about Palin except what I find a bit incongruous is McCain jousting Obama for being too inexperienced and then picks a VP with less experience than his opponent. Double standards?
@Vanessa
There are no good choices. Obama could not handle Hillary . He is weak and indecisive. That makes Pelosi & Reid the de-facto Presidents.
If McCain dies Palin has no Washington experience.
On balance though McCain/Palin wins.
Obama lies and I do not want the Pelosi radical whack jobs running the country. Reid is worse than the French and wants to surrender to anybody. At least the French knew who they were surrendering to.
If McCain dies Palin has good instincts and I believe she will handle the DC sharks better than Obama.
@ Rick
Why was she elected governor of Alaska? Are you suggesting the the requirements in Alaska is to be pretty to be governor?
@ Dan,
But that is exactly WHY Obama is qualified to be president. That is, he ran a marvelous winning race against the Billary machine and won.
@ steve
Are you suggesting that if she was fat and ugly she still would have won? Don’t know much about Alaska but my guess would be that she spent the most money and is well connected in addition to her good looks.
@Dan
wouldn’t have to look far to find someone better qualified. she is the right gender and the right look.
this is America we’re talking about.
I think Mcain stole the moment from Obama but made the wrong choice for long hall.
We have one of the most interesting elections in US history on our hands and I’m going to enjoy it.
@Portlandmike
He just cannot stand up to Pelosi & Reid.
@ Dan
Of course he can. He would not have gotten this far without them.
Political maneuvering par excellence…it’s as clear as a very lovely day in July what Mr McCain is up to right here. However, I think it safe to assume the Republican Party realizes their chances of winning this election are largely poor, thus making the sacrifice of a political nobody in the name of gendered expediency a worthy exchange. I’m disappointed in such blatant politicking–not even the usual thin, chipped veneer of justifications for this choice.
Dan ~
I don’t think that’s stunned silence. It’s what you call not running a full on smear campaign to avoid talking about issues. BTW didn’t Obama graciously congratulate her?
An example of the bitterness of Hillary supporters
Reid is worse than the French and wants to surrender to anybody
————————————————————————————————————
——— My dearest Dan, Harry Reid was a boxer who came up the hard way in the Jack Dempsey mold in a western mining town.
Maybe you don’t understand the soft country club politicians that run this country these days, but I’m here to help you understand that they have largely cut and run from holelistic national patriotism to self-serving servitude for corporatate America.
Sen. Reid is forced to pay tribute to said corporate powers as we all do, including John McCain, another boxer and scrapper, both of whom are well beyond your understanding. Deep down these two men understand and respect each other at a much higher level than the average supersized 10 sec soundbite American can.
Cheers now for 2008.
hello everyone,
Well,john Mccain has shocked the world.who is this Lady?I havent got a chance to know about her but it certainly seems lots of Hilary votes will divert for Palin.
Must say great thinking Mccain!!!:)
Thankyou
Abhinav:)
People of America we are really in a serious state of collapse…When a potential President makes a decision of VP (a heart beat from President) just to gain woman votes is a very scary state of affairs. As an underside voter I have to tell you– now I worry about “the call in the midnight hour and a call at the midnight hour who will answer this call” ;(
rick August 29, 2008 at 11:21 pm
@Bryan
Im sure the BBC won’t be biased because they know you are watching.
Well, you obviously missed the irony in my comment with your sarcastic response.
But you have inadvertently stumbled on a truth. Journalists are sensitive about their reputation for getting it right and producing quality reporting. And they are obviously uncomfortable with accusations of bias through distortion and omission of fact, especially when overwhelming evidence is produced to support these accusations. You will find complaints about BBC bias throughout the internet and in the UK press. Yes, people are watching and it must have some impact on the BBC.
I sometimes wonder what the BBC would be like if it were not restrained by watchful eyes. Actually, I don’t think I’d like to know.
Question:
Are American voters, especially the dis-affected Hillary Clinton supports, so shallow that they would really vote for Palin just because she’s a woman, totally ignoring the fact that she’s a hard-core conservative pro-lifer? Clearly, in policy terms, she’s about as different from Hillary as possible.
If the answer to the above is “yes” then I despair of the lack of common sense in American voters. However, I tend to think that, despite the machinations assumed by steve, voters will make their choices for rather more sensible reasons.
Final comment: everyone posting here seems to assume that they’re the only ones to see the political games being played by the parties, with every other voter being completely taken in the these strategies. I doubt it.
What do I think?
Haven’t we learned from Sen. McCain? Thinking is overated! Let’s just act spontaneously, come what may. Let’s go! Let’s go! Let’s go!
Bob in Queensland August 30, 2008 at 7:00 am
You are so funny sometimes, Bob:
Hard-core conservative pro-lifer indeed. You make this seem like a crime. And you object to my perception of you (and so many others connected to the BBC) as solidly anchored on the left.
Tell me something. Is it wrong to nurture new life or to destroy it?
@ Bryan,
You ask, “Tell me something. Is it wrong to nurture new life or to destroy it?”
Either is fine with me if the decision to abort is made in the first trimester.
@ Bryan
I first heard of Sara Palin when steve posted her name yesterday–I know nothing about her other than what I’ve read here and heard on the radio. Those descriptions are how she’s been discussed here and in the Australian media.
However, I’m somewhat amused at you taking exception to my “making them seem like a crime”. Since I became involved in the WHYS community I’ve had to get used to a small group of posters who–on a daily basis–use the word “liberal” as an insult. The people who post this way consider anyone even slightly to the left of their views to be part of the “lunatic left” (another quote from yesterday–ironically, my own views on many topics are actually pretty conservative). Not that it’s anyone’s business but, in the UK, I never voted Labour in my life! I guess I’m just not conservative enough–and have a fatal tendency to see shades of grey in any argument.
Finally, I’m not sure if your phrase about “and others connected to the BBC” indicates that you think I used to work there but, for the avoidance of doubt, I’ve never in my life worked for the Beeb. I have some friends there (in the field, opposing broadcasters often pool resources) but I’m not a BBC person.
In my astounded and joyful haste to get in on this thread, I was disappointed, on closer reading, to find that, after all, it was not Michael Palin who’d been chosen as VP. Michael would have been great at sorting out and expounding the mysteries of US strategy, and very honest too, I don’t doubt. What a disappointment to find that he’s been upstaged by some remote relative. Better luck next time, Michael!
It’s the desperate tactic of a loser. Forget it.
steve August 30, 2008 at 2:47 am,
Great link. Especially since it contained ten minutes of a speech by Palin. Lady seems genuine and down to earth. Quite emotional as well, but there’s nothing wrong with that. I think McCain has won the election with this move.
Bob in Queensland August 30, 2008 at 8:04 am,
I tend to put ‘liberal’ in quotes because the allegedly liberal policies of the social engineers of the left have done tremendous damage to society. We need less, not more, government, and when government starts to encroach on every single aspect of our lives including laying down the law on how we should behave in day to day interaction with others, that’s absolutely unacceptable.
Shakhoor Rehman August 30, 2008 at 11:12 am
Dunno about that. Ain’t no loser lost nothing yet.
@ Bryan
I’d say the USA (can’t comment on where you are because I don’t know but this is a thread about American candidates) needs better government, not less.
In my opinion (and my job used to take me to the USA roughly one week in six for around 20 years) America suffers from far to much niggling interference in lives–but it also suffers from the government not being effective enough in the areas that matter.
I used to categorise New York City as a place where a pedestrian could get a jaywalking ticket for crossing at a red light even if there’s no traffic–but can legally carry a lethal concealed handgun. The government can find billions to invade Iraq but it can’t provide adequate education or healthcare. And so on.
The biggest example of government failure I can think of was the anarchy in New Orleans after Katrina. How can disaster relief be left to market forces–that has to be a government initiative yet the squabbling between local, state and federal agencies meant that aid from other continents arrived before the richest country in the world did anything. Appalling–yet America had the gall to criticise Burma.
Yup, better government, not more or less.
Palin claims she wants to break the glass ceiling? Hello! She is a Conservative, the people who built and maintain that glass ceiling against women, She is her own worst enemy!
Well–I guess if the Democrats can nominate someone with very little experience for president, the Republicans can nominate someone with very little experience for vice-president.
I think McCain made a very good move. It’s a slam dunk. Choosing Palin squashed all of Obama’s claims about McCain. Palin is from Alaska and not in the Washington circle and she has more executive experience than Obama/Biden. She is also a reformer. Palin is conservative but if you look at her record you can see that she is not hardcore. My initial opinion is that I like her ALOT.
I am looking forward to hearing Palin speak at the republican convention next week.
Jennifer –
Are you really serious? If so then you scare me. As you are an intelligent person I will give you the benefit of the doubt – but have you really looked into who Sarah Palin is?
She is a part-time governor of a state that has 700k people. She was a mayor of a village ffs! She is under judicial investigation and she…oh never mind, looks for wall to bang head on.
@ On Sara Palin,
What a brilliant move by McCain. I like her. She is new, has managed to get herself elected as a Governor of a very influential State. She immediately called bull crap on the old Republican Guard type politicians. She runs on the clear vision of what is right and wrong and what is best for the mass. She told them, the U.S. Congress, to take all their money for the crooked bridge to nowhere and shove it. She called out the Old U.S. Congressman Don Young and Senator Ted Stevens to account for their transgressions before the people of Alaska. She is an old fashioned…..get things done and chew butt type leader.
I can’t wait for the Demo whinney Vice Presidential running mate and her debate. I think he’ll be up against a tough cookie. I can just she her challenging Catholic Biden and asking why he is for a woman’s right to choose murder. In terms of pure genocide it ranks up there near Mao’s 66 million put to death. They say since Rowe vs Wade there have been some 40 million abortions. The big difference is abortion is the worst sort of genocide in that the lives not able to fight for themselves get snuffed out. They spread the blame throughout the society so it does not settle on any one leader.
She is tough. She runs a big state and Biden has never really done much except talk. He is not ready to be President nor is Obama. She is, and she would have a whole lot of supporters advising her on all the particulars. Amazing that McCain could pick out her solid qualities of leadership and believe that she could help him win support simply on the back to basics, tight budgets, following the constitution and bringing real change to the American people.
Obama and Biden are old world chicago style politicians.
What this country needs is a good moose hunter, who is down to earth, honest, and a kick butt, take no nonsense…..leader.
troop on the coast of Oregon, but an old Alaskan
I get a big laugh out of the idea of a Conservative being a reformer.
Conservatism is the problem and always has been.
Conservative “reformers” just redirect your attention to minor crooks while they financially rape the public and the future of the children. They are Con-men in the worst sense of the word.
what this country is a good moose hunter…
troop, you’ve made my day
should have been a needs in there,
Interesting how so many people are concentrating on the fact that she was mayor of a small town, as if it is so important to dwell on a lower rung of the ladder on her climb to Governor of Alaska. And the BBC is particularly guilty of this. In their eagerness to trash Sarah Palin, the propaganists have forgotten, or never knew, that this is precisely what the American Dream is all about – from small beginnings to greatness.
Maybe the BBC thinks this can only happen on the Democratic side.
I wake up every morning expecting to see the Harriet Myers Headlines. In a town of 6,700 you are not even a “full time mayor.” In a town secluded and detached from the rest of the US you are barely a citizen. She failed twice to get the mayor. Not every member of the community are voting members. She failed twice to become governor.
She was essentially a “hockey mom” until two years ago. McCain would be the oldest person ever elected to office. A woman who doesn’t even know what the VP does from day to day (said it in her own words last week.) is going to be that close to being leader of the free world? The people supporting this are either sold or not right in the head.
What is comforting is I have 20 conservative friends that I debate with through email that were McCain supporters or on the fence. 12 of them have flat out said they will not vote for McCain after this. One said it best, “You just can’t reason all the arguments being made against Obama with the pick of Palin who has never even been in a state where it is warm, let alone out of the country.”
The only thing I fear is that this so “locks up” White House for the democrats that I am afraid too many might assume and not vote.
Here is something to think about. I heard that she has an approval rating of 80 percent by all 700,000 Alaskans.
She’s been a Governor actually governing for longer than Obama has been a Senator and running for President.
Too bad she cannot be the House Majority Leader, so she could shake up those pig ear mark funders and ridicule then either out of the House or to actually start doing something to help the average American trying to survive out here.
Experience counts a little, but it is the ability to get things done….important and good things done for the masses.
Obama has spent his entire career positioning himself to be the President. Sarah, stepped forward to cut the bandidos and paracites out of high office and do what was right according to common sense needs of the masses.
Talk about Change, a politician who actually does things besides plot and plan to be the President for who knows what cause…..Jeramiah Wright to be Secretary of State? and convert Muslims into militant black sufferage folks?
What has Obama actually done in Congress……………no one steps forward from any isle to explain how hard he worked on any issue for the people. Only making the right move to talk his way into being supported.
If only both camps had a good intent and goal to give the American people at least a fair national health care program for all the taxes they pay….they should get some personal security at least,,,the very least in that part of their lives. Then there is freedom to have those Bill of Rights on into the future.
Let us hope that the party who has the most sincere ability to help the most Americans get what they need……becomes the true colors obvious pick. Right now neither seems to be a serious, obvious answer.
troop
If John McCain becomes president after this blunder it proves that the american electorate is nuttier than an almond farm. This Palin lady hasn’t been heard of outside of Alaska and short of being mayor for a tiny little town and governor for a year and a half has no experience to draw on.
She’s the mother of five kids and as a fourth of five kids I can say without prejudice that her priority list should be spelled M-O-M. Don’t even try that B.S. about how mothers should be able to work and have kids too. My mother was an executive at a hospital larger than the town she was mayor of and I can tell you the kids suffered.
Oh, and she’s on tape trying to get a state trooper fired for divorcing her sister.
The GOP is insane to support this.
@Will
Yes, I am very serious! I have looked into who she is. I am sorry I scare you! haha
Here is what I like about Palin:
*She is not from Washington so she’d be someone new with no ties.
*She has executive experience as the Governor of Alaska. (Obama has none)
*She is the commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard so she has military experience. (Obama has none)
*Think about this: Alaska is America’s oil and natural gas capital. We could actually have our own and not depend on other countries. I think that would be great.
*She is a woman. Republican or democrat; it would break the glass ceiling. I think she’s sincere,intelligent, and would work to do what would benefit our country, especially women.
Personally, I think we as a society have become way to accepting in some regards. We want everyone to feel safe and comfortable. In doing so, it’s like the saying…give an inch take a mile to the point where anything goes now. I believe people should have the right to affordable health care, education, and I am in some ways pro-life but I am also a believer that we should take personal responsibility for our own choices.
People are going to have a hard time finding any candidate they agree with 100% on all issues. Palin is Republican, but her political positions with regards to certain things are liberal at times. She veto’d a bill that would have banned health and retiree benefits for same sex couples and they did receive those benefits as they should have. She’s done many other things. A reformer is a person who wishes to change something for the better of it. A mom with 5 kids doesn’t want to make the world better for them? You bet she does.
Palin is under investigation for an ethics violation against her ex-brother in law. She stated that she did nothing wrong and I am taking that as truth until I see tangible proof to the contrary instead of just political mudslinging.
And, yeah, she hunts with her dad. Both men and women hunt in the south; it’s accepted and I am sure many people will vote for her here because they admire that.
I think Obama and Biden will have to worry about statements like Rick and Pangolin’s above when speaking about Palin. Women today do many things: they are not just a M-O-M and a W-I-F-E. Many women will be offended if they try to insinuate that a woman is not able and entitled to be those AND professional or whatever else she wants to be.
When it comes down to it. Obama still lacks experience no matter which way you cut it. He makes promises that are not even realistic. I have no idea where he thinks the money for universal health care, tax breaks, and all that will come from.
@Jennifer
I hope that when any position becomes available, the best qualified person gets the job regardless of gender.
Hiring a woman for reasons other than that is not breaking any glass cielings. Is Palin the best qualified Republican in America to be president after Mcain or are you just thrilled because he picked a woman?
I think being president of America is a pretty big job and you have sold yourself short.
Michael Palin of Montey Python fame would have been a lot more fun and more credible .One can only spculate on the motive behind the choice.A small potatoes sop to Cinton feminists ,a nod to the NRA and anti-choice groups .as McCain is probably a one term candidate Sarah Palin may be a way to prepare a successor outside of the executive branch ,perhaps a future cabinet member .Lierberman may in fact be the 2012 candidate in waiting while seving as secretary of state insuring a solid support of Jews and their neocons Isreal shock troops The choice of MS Palin is too absurd to be taken at face value.
@Rick
I am registered democrat, however it doesn’t bother me to vote accordingly if I think it’s in the best interest. Just having a woman in the VP position will break glass ceilings. I believe that Palin is the best candidate to be VP (Democrat or Republican).
About the Republican Vice President Choice against Choice?
“If you’re against womens rights, Sarah Palin is your ma’am”.
Ladies and Gentalmen,
Nice debating/ranting with you. I am off for the evening, but leave you in good hands with he other mods.
Jess
@ Dwight — PS, Great, now Palin’s teen daughter pregnant is dominating the news. Nothing about Gustav. And Tucker (One of McCain’s top camp. officials) just said Palin is qualified to be VP, because she’s on the ticket with McCain. OMG, so now “substantive experience” means just standing next to someone who does. I’m going to laugh about this until tomorrow.
“Sarah Palin represents the Last Choice for Women!”
Republicans are saying that since Palin is in charge of the Alaska State National Guard as governor, she has “military” experience?
And I suppose Cheney can claim the same since he’s a draft dodger?
Who is going to tell the Republicans what actual “Military” experience is? It sure as hell isn’t just pretty words and titles.
Palin is a member of the NRA and for some, this means she has military experience. Ha ha ha ha.
What about her foreign policy experience? I guess she has one; since she is governor of Alaska which seems to be very close to Russia. Ha ha ha ha.
McCain just handed a huge victory to the Democratic ticket. No one in his right mind would pick Palin as VP which is a heartbeat away from the presidency. McCain is going for one term, that’s it.
The republican are desperate. Just listen to Palin’s speech. She went straight to the “18M Clinton’s voters”.
Now, the conservative Palin has a pregnant teenage daughter. McCain must be embarrassed.
Moreover, McCain disrespected the American people. How can a serious presidential candidate, add someone he met only once to his ticket? McCain met Palin once since January 08. This tells us how important America is to the republicans. A serious Vice President choice needs to be interviewed many times, or at least observed for some period of time.
Leadind a city of 9000 is not a good training ground for a VP choice. If that were the case, then even Robinson Crusoe could be a good VP pick.
Just my 2 cents.
shameless pandering to Hillary supporters. I mean, it’s like he said to his staffers, “I need a woman. A conservative woman. Anyone will do, just pick someone, by tonight!”
Surely there were better qualified conservative women than Palin, who was leading a town of 6500 a couple years ago, now is in the running to be VP of an aged, ailing, cancer-battling President.
OK ask yourself, she was mayor of a small town, then 2 years of governor of a remote and non-typical state, and now if bad things happen, she may be the person we have to rely on to take strategic steps up against people like Putin, or bin Ladin, or Chavez, or Raul Castro? Stand up against a belligerant North Korea?
A small town mayor is ready for that? And they couldn’t find anyone better?
Plus, it shows that McCain thinks that Hillary supporters just want a woman, any woman, and it wasn’t at all about what Hillary stood for or her positions on issues or anything. Palin is a pro-life NRA creationist, she’s the anti-Hillary.
Give Republicans a Real Maverick.
If you’re not going to buy into the McCain gimmicks, Vote Republican Ron Paul.
If you’re really concerned about National Security and know Palin’s not the best Republican VP choice we have. You have a better alternative.
Unlike McCain who’s been in the Senate 25 years and agrees with Bush 95% of the time. Republican Ron Paul
holds true the soul of the Republican Party.
Republican’s know, if you don’t like the public school system, there’s Private or Group homeschooling options. None of this school welfare.
Republican’s shouldn’t have to pay for someone who chooses to overeat junk foods, sugar and alcohol then gets diabetes and heart disease. Why should they pay for other peoples’ special needs children or adults. They choose it, they should stop whining and get another job to accommodate their choice.
Don’t have health insurance or a good job. Find another one this is America! Don’t make Republicans pay for your Special needs.
Independents, Republicans, I urge you, for our country. Ron Paul doesn’t have the McCain/Palin baggage. Vote Republican Ron Paul, check him out at least! Then get the word out to all Republicans who don’t want the same Bush 4th term, who don’t want McCain/Palin sarcasm, although funny, hasn’t offered any solutions.
Please copy this post everywhere, Ron Paul the Real Maverick.