Talking Points for 28th August

Hello, it’s Kate with you today. Thanks to Nelson for moderating, if you’d like to try moderating just let me know.
Ex-US President Bill Clinton publicly gave his full support to presidential-hopeful Barack Obama yesterday…

Obama’s campaign hope this public support will be accompanied by more votes for Obama from those who still pay close attention to what the former President says. Russia’s current President Medvedev has been close to former-President Putin throughout the Georgian crisis and Thailand’s current PM is facing unrest linked to accusations that he is a “puppet” .

So how much influence should a former leader have? If you’re no longer the elected leader, should you no longer have political power?
Obama is making his most important speech yet at the US Democratic convention tonight but should he be worried about being too good at making speeches? The Times thinks so.

Nelson pointed out this article on the blog which, along adds to the recent bad press for air travel. So how dangerous is air travel? Do any of these incidents actually put you off flying?
Food has been a popular topic on this Talking Points page but the main opposition party in the UK have their own opinions on the link between food and health. So is there “no excuse” for being overweight? Do you think your genetics or your environment play a significant part? Or is it about making healthy choices?

And last but not least… the World Health Organisation thinks social injustice is the biggest factor in the gaps in healthcare and life expectancies (even within countries) around the world. What’s the best way to close the gaps?

187 Responses to “Talking Points for 28th August”

  1. 1 Sheikh Kafumba Dukuly
    August 27, 2008 at 19:23

    @ Nelsoni. Welcome to the overnight desk. Trust your stewardship and know that nto night with be interesting. Am monitoring the on air dialogue. Will join you soon.

  2. 2 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 19:35

    Hello every one, Nelson here. I came across this article which suggests that Airlines may be Compromising Air safety by telling pilots to fly on minimum fuel load because of the credit crunch. You can read the article here

  3. 3 Dennis
    August 27, 2008 at 19:41

    Hi Nelson!!!

    Welcome to the overnight flight on TP!!!


  4. 4 Amy
    August 27, 2008 at 19:43


    I’ll be out this afternoon, Pacific Time, US but should be around to help out this evening so you can get your 4 hours sleep 🙂

  5. 5 Nick in USA
    August 27, 2008 at 19:44

    @ Nelsoni

    Please, don’t scare me like that. My wife is a flight attendant.

  6. 6 Jens
    August 27, 2008 at 19:50

    as if thet tiny island is not already bursting…..where will they live? the highlands?


  7. 7 steve
    August 27, 2008 at 19:50

    Why isn’t Obama even ahead in the polls? If you think about it, Obama is the “messiah”. Mccain is an old man, he’s “McSame”, and Bush is incredibly unpopular, and Mccain according to the left would be more of the same. Yet, the polls are dead even? Why?

    I think it’s time for the left to accept that once again, the democrats messed up with their candidate and picked someone who is unelectable. Obama should be double digits ahead of Mccain now. He’s not. Mccain’s going to win. Perhaps in 2012, when Hillary runs again, the Democrats will do it correctly. It’s like they seek out to lose elections.

  8. 8 Nick in USA
    August 27, 2008 at 19:51

    Jamie Oliver

    Abdelilah brought this story up yesterday, and I thought it should be retouched upon. It is my opinion that food variety has all but dissappeared in the states. I’m reminded of this fact every time I travel. We don’t take pride in our food anymore. Everything is just eat quick and go. The stuff we are eating is not nutritious and we are paying the price. What has to be done for this to stop? Why doesn’t anyone care about eating delicious healthy food anymore?

  9. 9 Robert Evans
    August 27, 2008 at 19:52

    Well in the last 7 to 14 day I have heard of 3 aircraft related incidents

  10. 10 Sheikh Kafumba Dukuly
    August 27, 2008 at 20:03

    @ Nelsoni.
    Thanks for the link but i appears to me that FAA and other Aviation regulations institutions are involved in the conspiracy. This is actually scaring that our lives are continuously being placed in jeopardy by corrupt aviation regulators. This is purely cruel.

  11. 11 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 20:05

    @ Amy thanks for the offer.

    Accepted 🙂

  12. 12 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 20:08

    @ Nick in USA

    I did not mean to. The credit crunch still affects what goes on in the sky.

  13. 13 Scott (M)
    August 27, 2008 at 20:09


    Was there a time when people ate “delicious healthy food,” at least in the USA? Maybe, a time when the food was generally healthier. I am not so sure that food has become less delicious.

    We should focus on the health factor. Isn’t this just a confluence of events, like most things. Perhaps, we attach too much significance to this food issue. With many food ‘radicals’ acting like zealots and using this as an alleged symptom of a general disease in the culture. There may be a cultural disease, but I don’t think lack of healthy food is enough proof.

  14. 14 Nick in USA
    August 27, 2008 at 20:11

    Oops, my hyperlink didn’t work. How do I hyperlink here?

  15. 15 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 20:13

    @ Dennis , Thanks on the overnight flight on TP!!!, we don’t compromise on quality and we fly with maximum load plus an excellent safety record. So you are all in safe hands

  16. 16 Lubna
    August 27, 2008 at 20:15

    Hi gang ! ;-)… Today I saw this very unfortunate news on TV : The rates of hungry people all around the world rise up by 50% due to the rise in food prices… Mission No.1 for the WHYS global family : What can be done to tackle the world’s hunger ?! With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…

  17. 17 Anthony
    August 27, 2008 at 20:15

    @ steve

    I know what you mean. The Dem’s really know how to lose elections. It’s like John Kerry all over again!!! If you run in 2012, I’ll be your V.P.!!! Hehe. So what does everyone think about “DARTH NADAR” running again???

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  18. 18 steve
    August 27, 2008 at 20:17

    @ Anthony

    I’m curious, if the Republicans put up a guy in a coma, I think he’d have better odds of winning than the democratic candidate. The democrats never learn. You need a centerist, southern democrat to get elected nationwide. That people think Barack is going to win, actually scares me. He’s actually losing in the polls now, despite he SHOULD be far, far ahead if people really hated Bush’s policies, thought Mccain was too old, etc… The democrats did it again.

  19. 19 Nick in USA
    August 27, 2008 at 20:18

    @ Scott

    Everytime I go home for the holidays and eat dishes that were prepared with love, I’m reminded of how food used to taste. Before mothers could bring home happy meals for dinner. Or give their children lunchables (Seriously, have you checked the nutrition facts on these things?) in their lunchbox. Before high fructose corn syrup and trans fats. Check out the school lunches these days. Simply dreadful.

    A lack of healthy food causes a cultural disease. Try eating McDonalds for 30 days like Morgan Spurlock. It changes every aspect of your life. Digestion, personality, physical appearance, and overall health.

  20. 20 Dennis
    August 27, 2008 at 20:23

    @ Republicans putting a guy in a coma…..i think they would have same amount of chance!

    @ Nelson: I know, we don’t cheap our guests on airservices! :), We may have some unruly guests on the airplanes!


  21. 21 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 20:26

    Nelson ~

    The idea of flying on low fuel is deplorable at best. As noted in the article weather patterns and time in the queue to land certainly make differences in the amount of fuel needed. It is sad that the FAA sees no major issue with it. It’s nice to know that all of our lives are expendable for the airline companies bottom line and even go so far to threaten their employees with less profit sharing and reduced pensions. Ridiculous!

  22. 22 Dennis
    August 27, 2008 at 20:27


    Here is an example:

    This story is about a guy in The United Kingdom and a password on his account!!!


  23. 23 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 20:30

    @ Venessa

    That makes such aircrafts Flying Caskets

  24. 24 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 20:34

    re: Food

    I think there are a combination of factors that contribute to the poor eating habits and the laziness to prepare good meals. More women are in the workforce, fast food is very popular for it’s quick instant gratification and I think in general there is a lack of knowledge around proper nutrition. Even thinking back to highschool although nutrition was taught there was not a lot of emphasis on it.

    Personally I enjoy cooking but I’m in a rut. I only have so many recipes and it is quite difficult to cook for 2 with most of them. If anyone has any great chili, soups or other healthy foods that are fairly easy to prepare please pass along. I tend to cook the same things over and it’s tough not to get sick of it.

  25. 25 Anthony
    August 27, 2008 at 20:36

    HAHAHA Check this out, Ralph Nadars site says:

    “37 states down, only 8 to go, lets get it done”


    LOL, WHAT A SHMUCK!!! With people like Jello Biafra (who I actually like), Sean Penn, and Val Kilmer on his side, he’s sure to win…right…..ummmmmm.

    And check out his “issue” page.


    It’s good for a laugh!!!

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  26. 26 steve
    August 27, 2008 at 20:39

    Oh yeah, good point. Nader will take away more Obama votes. I doubt Bob Barr will take away many mccain votes though.

  27. 27 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 20:41

    @ Dennis,

    We expect courtsey from our guests but the rules are very clear on unruly guests should be taken care of.

  28. 28 Dennis
    August 27, 2008 at 20:42

    About receipes:
    Since i will be returning to Onondaga Community College on Sunday, 31 August 2008….Cooking is a necessity than a luxury for me!!!

    Fast food:
    I only it when i have to go out, to do the shopping for the week….


  29. 29 Nick in USA
    August 27, 2008 at 20:43

    @ Food

    Another culprit contributing to our poor health is portion size. When I go to the supermarket to buy beef, I can’t get less than a pound. I end up cooking it all (I despise frozen meats) and then having to choke down leftovers for two days.

    @ Dennis

    My question was, how do I actually tag hyperlinks, so they work on this blog.

  30. 30 Dennis
    August 27, 2008 at 20:44

    Thanks, Nelson:

    I wish i had this on the weekend, when i was the moderator….

    [I will be copied it for my next time at the anchor chair]…..


  31. 31 Dennis
    August 27, 2008 at 20:45


    Put the address into the REPLY, Your are typing…

    Have Will Rhodes and or the others moderators can give you a better technique!


  32. 32 Scott (M)
    August 27, 2008 at 20:47

    Nick in USA – FOOD:

    It is hard to debate the aesthetics of food, not to mention the arbitrary ‘before’—quite a long period of time! In my life I feel like the ‘deliciousness’ of food has improved. I have to love the Gardenburger! The Yogurt Parfait at Target! The Truffle Mac N Cheese at The Four Seasons (Vancouver)! In many cities food has recently gotten healthier, No Trans Fat. Overall, the majority of food is probably unhealthy. But besides the health implications, already discovered, and yet to be discovered by science—-I am not sure what else there is to say about it.

  33. 33 Anthony
    August 27, 2008 at 20:47

    We should make a list of things that are going to help McCain win:

    1)CNN and Faux news.
    4)Conflict with Russia/Iran/North Korea


    -Anthony, LA, CA

  34. 34 Nick in USA
    August 27, 2008 at 20:49

    I’m very dissappointed in the democrats pushing the mccain age issue. Unfortunately, I just received an email that started out with this to say:

    “While Ted Kennedy and Michelle Obama were rocking the Democratic convention in Denver, John McCain made his 13th appearance with Jay Leno to joke about his age.

    But McCain’s age is no joke. He will turn 72 on Friday and would be halfway to 73 if elected and sworn in on January 20. That would make him the oldest first-term President ever, two years older than Ronald Reagan. He has survived four skin cancers (melanomas), including one in 2000 that was classified as Stage IIa. ”

    It continues to say that there is a risk of dementia, and whatever else goes along with old age. Can you say “low road”? I really want to see the campaign managers on both sides flogged.

  35. 35 selena in Paris
    August 27, 2008 at 20:50


    Thanks for posting the password link. I am still laughing.

  36. 36 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 20:53

    Nick ~

    Portions are one of my BIGGEST pet peeves! Even knowing what proper portions are sometimes I find myself eating more than I should and I wonder if it’s because that’s they way it’s always been.

  37. 37 Dennis
    August 27, 2008 at 20:55

    @ Selena in Paris:

    You are Welcome..i try to find these kind of stories for us to have a lite laugh on
    the TP and or BLANK PAGES on World Have Your Say


  38. 38 Julie P
    August 27, 2008 at 20:57


    To control portion sizes I bought smaller size plates and when I eat out I have no problem with taking leftover food home.

  39. 39 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 20:59

    Julie ~

    My problem is I like to eat which is the reason I must go to the gym often! 😉 It’s easy to control portions at home and I’m also able to graze all day which also controls hunger. It’s when I go out to eat that I struggle. Usually I do 1/2 orders or something like that. Rarely I go home without left overs but sometimes the pasta or steak is too good to stop. Then of course I am faced with the uncomfortable stomach and a need to lay down and moan about my stupidity.

  40. 40 Anthony
    August 27, 2008 at 21:05

    @ Julie and Venessa

    Just don’t eat after 6. Its that easy. I eat so much stuff, and started to gain weight rapidly a few years back. I just stick to that, and I barley gain a thing. You can work out as much as you want, but if you’re not eating correctly, you wont change one bit.

    I remember the portions, and I remember the points (my mom, family, and co workers) and they don’t work.

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  41. 41 Nick in USA
    August 27, 2008 at 21:08

    @ Julie P

    Good idea on the small plates. My wife and I always split an entree when we go out. It really works well. For some reason, a lot of people seem to feel cheated if they don’t get 5 lbs of food on their plate when they go out. Like Venessa, I can’t stop myself when there is good food on the plate. Then, I always feel uncomfortable after I eat too much. Splitting an entree eliminates this problem for us.

  42. 42 Julie P
    August 27, 2008 at 21:10


    I’m hypoglycemic, so not eating after six is not an option. That’s too much time between my last meal and breakfast. I monitor what I eat, including portion sizes. so far, I’m able to keep my blood sugar under control along with my weight. Put too much food on a plate at a restaurant and I’ll take the extra food home with me.

  43. 43 Nick in USA
    August 27, 2008 at 21:15

    @ Anthony

    Not eating after 6 is also an excellent tip. It really works well. My dad lost 50 lbs. of the course of a couple years, just by doing this. It’s true, you can workout like crazy, but a bad diet leads to poor health. I’m sure, even Michael Phelps will eventually have to answer to his diet.

  44. 44 Jessica in NYC
    August 27, 2008 at 21:17

    @ nelsoni

    Your post was horrible! In protest, I’m walking or swimming to my destinations. I hear global warming has made the ocean warmer. That will teach these penny pinching airliners.

  45. 45 Anthony
    August 27, 2008 at 21:17

    Awww. That sucks. But you gotta pay to look good!!! Hehe, J/K. Well for the other people…PUT DOWN THE FORK!!! I hate when you see huge obese people eating pizza with chunks of hamburger on top, yet sipping down a Diet Coke. Just stop eating!!! And then they try to blame it on their genes. Yeah, maybe 10% of the times its genes, the other 90 % its self control!!!

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  46. 46 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 21:20

    Anthony ~

    In general I don’t eat after 6pm but if I do get hungry I go for a handful of almonds or something small. My biggest downfall is wanting a beer or a cocktail in the evenings which I usually go for after 6ish. It’s also difficult to avoid food at night because my husband is a garbage can, he eats constantly and doesn’t gain a pound. Men are much luckier than women in that regard.

  47. 47 Lubna
    August 27, 2008 at 21:20

    Hi again gang ! :-)… Hi Precious Nelsoni… Any suggestions on how to go on successfully with Mission NO.1 for the WHYS Global Family “How To Stop the world’s hunger ?!” ?! Please guys, I want suggestions and solutions, not a debate, only in case you guys were interested… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…

  48. 48 Jessica in NYC
    August 27, 2008 at 21:21

    @ Nick in USA

    LOL– I’d throw in some campaign PR firms and staffers into your flogging.

  49. 49 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 21:23

    Anthony ~

    Self control is hard for a lot of people and I agree it’s frustrating to see someone get a high calorie & fat dish and drink diet soda. At least they are cutting back on something…. 😉

  50. 50 Julie P
    August 27, 2008 at 21:24


    “It’s also difficult to avoid food at night because my husband is a garbage can, he eats constantly and doesn’t gain a pound. Men are much luckier than women in that regard.”

    Then I guess you’ll hate me! I can eat whatever I want and maintain that bikini figure. 🙂

  51. 51 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 21:25

    Julie ~

    I can maintain the bikini figure too…the bikini just starts to look smaller. hehehehehe!

  52. 52 Anthony
    August 27, 2008 at 21:26

    @ Jessica

    I don’t really think that about .15 degree increase in 20 years is a huge difference. The predictions were much larger than this. And as far as the Ocean, whether the gases stayed at the same levels now than 20 years ago, it would change no matter what.

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  53. 53 Julie P
    August 27, 2008 at 21:26


    That may not be a bad thing!

  54. 54 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 21:29

    Nick ~

    Food choices are indeed a huge problem. I think that’s why people can be heavy and still healthier than the skinnier peeps. I admit since being with my husband my very proper eating habits have suffered but for the most part I stay on track. My big concern are health related issue later in life by not paying attention now. My brother is only 32 and already deals with blood pressure and cholesterol issues. The difference is I watch what I eat, didn’t gain weight like he did and remain active.

  55. 55 Jessica in NYC
    August 27, 2008 at 21:30

    @ Nick in USA

    However, McCain’s age is a concern just as Obama’s inexperience in foreign relations. Death is always a concern when electing a president. In McCain case it is a legitimate higher risk concern, because of the health factors. Imagine if Bush had had all these high risk health concerns and Cheney, became…urgg I can’t even say it. So democrats are just doing what republicans are masters at and do every single election–they hit hard and low and attack the candidates strengths.

  56. 56 Anthony
    August 27, 2008 at 21:33

    I’m amazed at what some Americans eat. I have this HUGE friend (like 300+), and we went to In and Out where he got a 4X4 (a hamburger with 4 patties and 4 peices of cheese), fries, and a soda. Later on, while I was still digesting, he ordered pizza. That and the doritos and cookies and popsicles got me thinking, “HOW???”. How can people be like this and allow themselves to be that big. I told him I was worried once and he got mad and thought I was teasing him.

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  57. 57 Nick in USA
    August 27, 2008 at 21:36

    @ Venessa

    Yes, the term “skinny fat” comes to mind. You can live off of vodka and cigarettes and be a size 2, but that’s not healthy. I just wonder, is the problem that restaurants don’t offer healthy smaller portion dishes in the USA and UK, or that people won’t buy them?

  58. 58 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 21:38

    Anthony ~

    OMG! I don’t understand how people can’t eat that much. It pains me to even consider eating a burger like that. I struggle eating a fast food meal as it is. Not only is it barely palatable but it’s so rich. I generally feel nauseous when I’m finished. If your friend feels like he needs to eat that much perhaps he should substitute some items out for a salad or fruit or a chicken breast. Good lord, NO ONE needs to eat that much in one sitting, let alone in one day!

  59. 59 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 21:41

    @ Jessica in NYC

    I hope you dont swim in shark infested waters. 😉

    and as for walking that would be interesting,

    how about cycling?

  60. 60 Julie P
    August 27, 2008 at 21:42


    I think restaraunts don’t offer healthy portion sizes. There have been times when I have seen food that I have ordered come out of the kitchen that are so ladened with food that the first thing the springs to mind is I’ll never be able to eat all of that. It really disgusts me. I started going to places where I don’t have to ask for a doggie bag, or leave it on a plate only to have it thrown away.

  61. 61 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 21:48

    Nick ~

    I think part of the problem could be restaurants. More people do eat out. Recently I have found there are more “healthy” selections on menus but they are still not that great. The portions are still too large or the sides etc. offered with them kind of negate the entire point of getting a healthier meal. Typically when I go out I concede to the fact that I need to not eat as much and it will be one of my cheat meals for the week.

  62. 62 Jessica in NYC
    August 27, 2008 at 21:49

    @ Anthony
    So I should rethink, swimming the Atlantic?

    RE: Your other post
    We cannot afford another 4 years of Bush. List of things on why Obama NEEDS win:
    1) The economy 2) Iraq 3) Health Care 4) Education 5) Jobs 6) oh and our international credibility

    Reasons why he will win:
    1) People will vote for him
    2) The one that applies to you directly as a former Hillary supporter–Hillary told you to vote for Obama.

    What’s your address? I’m sending the Hillary camp, I mean Obama-Biden camp, to talk some sense into you.

  63. 63 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 21:49

    Julie or anyone else ~

    Gross portion sizes come to mind when I think of the restaurant Claim Jumpers. I have only been there twice and the amount of food for one plate is enough to feed a family of 4! It’s a ridiculous amount of food.

  64. 64 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 21:52

    Lubna ~

    I truly believe there is enough food in this world to feed everyone. I don’t know how it can be resolved because the problems facing those that go hungry are different for each region.

    Obviously in the US we waste a lot more than we probably eat.

  65. 65 Julie P
    August 27, 2008 at 21:53


    I’ve started eating a specific restaraunts most of the time when I eat out, that do not over serve food. There is a French restaraunt that I frequent when I dine out. Anu never puts too much food on the plate and when I look down at the food I see excellent food. Not once in Anu’s restaraunt have looked at his portion sizes and thought heart attack on plate. Or oh, puke, I’ll never be able to eat all of that!

  66. 66 Scott (M)
    August 27, 2008 at 21:55

    This food, switch the
    subject to fat thing.
    Is out of control!

    Yes, in the majority of cases people are overweight because of what they eat, and how much of it. But that is obvious and beside the point—EXCEPT it is the point everyone focuses on!

    We need to find out why people do this. What are the reasons. All we ever seem to propose, is that they are lazy, irresponsible and/or greedy. You think people do this because it is fun?

    The overweight are an easy target! They are a visible target! They cannot hide their problems from view! Many of us walk around, or write on this blog, who even if we aren’t overweight, have hidden issues. Issues that stem from the same places that causes someone to become overweight. But these problems aren’t visible, so we go unnoticed.

    Find a target that isn’t so easy.

  67. 67 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 21:56

    Julie ~

    Sushi is my friend. Very easy to control portions and know exactly what you are getting!

  68. 68 Virginia Davis
    August 27, 2008 at 21:56

    Lubna: google Frances Moore Lappe. http://www.smallplanetmedia.org as well.
    A place to start….. Virginia in Oregon

  69. 69 Nick in USA
    August 27, 2008 at 21:56

    @ Venessa and Julie P

    I have never eaten fast food, and not felt nauseous afterwards. I agree that resaurants just aren’t offering healthy, nutritious, properly proportioned meals, but how did we come to this state? Without people buying the garbage in the first place, these places would have been closed down. I’m worried that there are actually only a few of us who care, and our poor economies of scale have made us a niche market. Kind of like the hybrid car. People were screaming and begging for them, but the big automakers just wouldn’t make them because there didn’t seem to be enough people screaming. This worries me.

  70. 70 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 22:02

    Scott ~

    You make a very valid point. I think the majority of people are not happy about overeating etc. Perhaps someone who has a hard time with their weight would be willing to anonomously share their reasons. I have struggled with food issues most of my life but have found ways to control it. I wonder how other people have dealt with it.

  71. 71 Julie P
    August 27, 2008 at 22:02


    You bring up a good question about changing portion sizes at restaurants. When I get home I’ll do some research on the CDC website.

  72. 72 Nick in USA
    August 27, 2008 at 22:05

    @ Lubna

    I apologize for not getting to your post earlier. I too, would love to talk about practical ways to feed the starving. On the other hand, I am a bit torn on the subject. If a country has populated itself to the point that it can’t sustain it’s current population, then what would they do with more food? Would they just have more children, and again, end up in the same situation, only now there would be more people to go starving. I know this sounds terrible, but I that the support of starving third world countries, should come with the stipulation that those countries make an effort to control their populations.

  73. 73 Scott (M)
    August 27, 2008 at 22:05

    Nick in USA,

    I think if anything you should feel encouraged, because I have never seen so many healthy food options available in stores. Not to mention the success of stores like Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods.

  74. 74 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 22:08

    Nick ~

    It worries me as well. Look at everything though; we are a society of convenience with 10 second attention spans. Also contributing to this is the fact that processed foods with lots of additives are cheaper to make, have longer shelf lives and in general are easier to prepare. Adults now are a generation raised on junk food.

    If it is going to change it will not happen over night. The only way I see that a difference can be made right now is with your dollar.

  75. 75 Jessica in NYC
    August 27, 2008 at 22:12

    @ Dennis

    Jamie Oliver’s article in in the Guardian Roasting the masses.

  76. 76 Venessa
    August 27, 2008 at 22:12

    Scott ~

    Trader Joes and Whole Foods are great stores with wonderful options but there are a lot of people with small incomes that can’t afford to shop these places. They are a bit pricier than the other chain stores.

  77. 77 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 22:14

    @ Lubna

    Sorry for my late reply,

    the most practical way to solve food problem would be for governments to embark on a deliberate agricultural expansion policy.

  78. 78 Anthony
    August 27, 2008 at 22:17

    @ nelsoni and Lubna

    No, just set up McDonalds all over the world where people are starving 🙂 That should end world hunger!!!

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  79. 79 Scott (M)
    August 27, 2008 at 22:18


    This might sound a little half-baked to some, but I think part of the problem arose in the same way we started buying goods from China, because they were cheaper. This cheapness allowed us to perceive them as of greater value and a good deal. Americans like a good deal, as I think does anyone. But because of America’s economic prowess and strength, we were able to get too many good deals, that weren’t commensurate with what may be good for us or them.

    I think large portions were seen as a good economic deal and restaurants offered them because Americans responded to the good deal! The trouble began when the good deal was all over the place. It wasn’t just because Americans got hungrier, it was because that good deal never stopped. And maintain economic growth and success each time the good deal had to be replaced with an even better ‘good deal.’ Which meant: larger and larger and larger portions.

  80. 80 Paul Coletti
    August 27, 2008 at 22:18

    If Nick or anyone is interested then doing a link using the WordPress edit box (the standard input box) used on this site) is pretty simple..

    Here’s a link:
    To hear great radio click here . . .

    To create that link I just typed:

    To hear great radio click <a href=”http://bbcworldservice.com”>here</a> . . .

    The a in angle brackets is an anchor tag . . the thing you are linking to comes in double quotes after the href= bit. Then finally you close off your a tag with the forward slash.

    Sorry if this is patronising…

    Of course if you’re using fancy HTML editors then you will have your own way of doing it.


  81. 81 Jessica in NYC
    August 27, 2008 at 22:19

    @ Dennis

    I can’t type the example, HTML recognizes it as a command. Google basic html and that should give you what you’re looking for or just post the web address

  82. 82 Julie P
    August 27, 2008 at 22:20

    @portion sizes

    Here is what I found on the CDC website concerning portion sizes.


  83. 83 Anthony
    August 27, 2008 at 22:22

    I dont care what anyone says, I think Nancy Pelosi is HOT. She’s looking good right now at the DNC!!!

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  84. 84 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 22:30

    @ Paul Colleti

    Thanks for your help. Explaining html on these pages can be a little difficult.

    are you a supervisory mod’ paul?

  85. 85 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 22:33

    @ Anthony

    Do that and you end up asking for billions of dollars in aid to deal with arising health issues

  86. 86 Shirley
    August 27, 2008 at 22:39

    Middle East
    Do you recall that Israel disengaged from Gaza?

    Hello, Bryan. I would maintain that Gaza remains occupied based on information that I found in The Israeli “Disengagement” Plan: Gaza Still Occupied:
    In The Hostages Case, the Nuremburg Tribunal set out a definition for occupation: “[t]he test for application of the legal regime of occupation is…whether it has the ability to exercise such power [to exercise effective control over the territory].” Israel will retain ultimate authority over Gaza and to a much greater degree than did Germany over Turkey and Greece in The Hostages Case. Under the Disengagement Plan, Gazans will still be subjected to the effective control of the Israeli military. Israeli forces will retain the ability and right to enter the Gaza Strip at will. Israel will retain control over Gaza’s airspace, sea shore, borders, overall security, and international relations. Israel will also prevent Gazans from engaging in international relations. See Israel, “Cabinet Resolution,” add. A3.

    Number of words: 161

  87. 87 Roberto
    August 27, 2008 at 22:41

    However, McCain’s age is a concern just as Obama’s inexperience in foreign relations. Death is always a concern when electing a president.

    ——- Stuff like this is only a concern because the media has made it a concern as part of their own marketing strategies.

    Some folks will aways buy what the TV says, and at the very least the media has created a topic and controversy that allows them to fill space, attract viewers, and thus more advertiser$$$.

    McCain is in no danger of dying anymore than the average 40-50 yr old. The old warhorse has been put through more paces and vetted by more docs than a stable of Kentucky Derby thoroughbreds. He also maintains a schedule that would leave most people in the world in the dust.

    Obama is much more likely to die via assassination by the usual suspects. Some of the dumber ones found dead of cyanide poisoning in a Denver hotel near the convention last week, and found driving while drunk on the way to the convention just a few days ago.

    As far as experience, nobody was more unqualified than Harry Truman, and he is generally accorded as one of our better presidents under the most difficult of times, certainly much better than the much ballyhooed JFK who was the most recklessly stupid president the US ever had until the Slick/Jughaid twin draft dodgers were appointed.

    Which beggers the question of the veracity of the average American voter. Look no further than Floriduh.

  88. 88 Shirley
    August 27, 2008 at 22:41

    Middle East Peace
    Based on what I found at two different pages at Electronic Intifada, it seemed rather clear that Israel exercised that same kind of authority that was specified in the definition of occupation above. Israel conducted military aircraft flyovers of the Gaza Strip and caused several sonic booms that damaged the hearing of several Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. Israeli aircraft also conducted several extrajudicial assassinations in the Gaza Strip. Israel has fired upon Palestinian fishermen and has blocked the reconstruction of Yasser Arafat International Airport. Israel has maintained control over the Gazan borders. Israel and the international community sanctioned Palestine after Hamas won the elections, withholding Palestinian tax money and halting IMF and World Bank aid, grants, and loans. The US and the Quartet have also maintained an economic boycott in response to Palestine’s democratic elections. In June 2006, the Israeli undercover units abducted two Palestinian brothers inside the Palestinian borders in Rafah city. When [Hamas?] retaliated by entering Israeli territory and abducting two Israeli soldiers, Israel launched Operation Summer Rain. This all constitutes an occupation of the Gaza Strip as per the afore-mentioned definition.

    Number of Words: 182

  89. 89 Jens
    August 27, 2008 at 22:46

    the problem is that we humans are geneticaly programned to go for the cheapest and highest calorie content. HOWEVER, we are not hunter and gatherers anymor, we office chair monkeys with the brain of caveman.

    portion size is a major issue. i put on 50 pounds when i moved to the usa, because everything has to be bigger, more cheese, more high fructose syrup etc etc. since having change my diet to whole grains and non fortified and processed crap, i have drop 20 pounds without major efforts. just read the labels and make an informed descision. you will not believe how much chemicals etc are found in vertually all foods. reduce red meat intake, switch to hole grains, eat vegetables and fruits and presto you lose weight.

  90. 90 Jens
    August 27, 2008 at 22:53


    the poorer people can afford to shop in supermarkets and buy fresh vegetables, rather than the process crap. the issue is that with poverty comes also a lower level of education usually and with that less informed choices. in addition, obisity is a problem of the poor mainly. instead of gourging yourself on cheap food, pay a little more and eat less. that is easyier said than done, because guess what??????? yes the basic understanding on how bad choices affect you is not as well developed or even understood.

    i propose a ban on all advertising of all the fast food chains and any products that use processed ingredients. the issue of obesity has to be tackeled like the smoking issue. just look at all the horrible crap that is advertised for, especially during kids TV. have proper food education at school and show kids that one can make a great dinner with fresh food.

  91. August 27, 2008 at 23:04


    In the U.S. the fast food companies started treating hunger as if it were a disease back in the 70’s. Just lately one fast food mega food server is selling their late night menu as “fourth meal.”

    In the third world countries Ive been to, few people are overweight. Mostly the people eat one meal a day. Something in the mornings. A few bites in midday, and then a meal in the evening. Here in America I believe that every day we throw away enough food to feed another 300 million people.

    I think that another reason we have gained so much weight, along with all of the reasons you all have posted, is because we don’t burn off the calories we consume with our daily routines. By chance I got into bicycle racing in the 80’s, and we all noticed that it was impossible to gain weight if you rode a bike 25 miles a day (trying always to go faster).

    Neighborhood gyms are very popular these days with people trying to be fit and svelte, but it is difficult to maintain a good routine for years there, but riding a bicycle a little further, a little faster every day, will produce noticeable changes in six weeks. In three months on this routine, you will be shopping for a new wardrobe… and you will love your bike, but be wanting a new one!

  92. 92 Anthony
    August 27, 2008 at 23:10

    Wow, if this DNC (the first one I’ve watched) isn’t the biggest load of B.S. Just a hollywood firework show. Blah blah blah, we all know who won, get over it already.

    (Also, i thought it was funny that California and Illinois passed on all their votes)

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  93. 93 steve
    August 27, 2008 at 23:23

    @ Anothony

    It might be worth it if some of the Hillary supporters throw televised tantrums.

  94. 94 Bryan
    August 27, 2008 at 23:44

    Victims of terror in Israel are suing the Bank of China because they Knowingly assisted Hamas and the Islamic Jihad to carry out terrorist attacks:


    Here’s how the World Service reported this today, the fact that it was almost a week late being the least of its sins:

    Israeli victims of militants filed a lawsuit against the Bank of China. They accuse it of knowingly assisting militant groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad…

    This is appalling reporting.The BBC has no right to be changing the designation that a group gives itself. If they call themselves Victims of terror that’s what should be reported, especially since this is how they are being represented in a lawsuit. Equally important is the fact that the US regards Hamas and Islamic Jihad as terrorist groups, and the suit was filed in New York.

    The BBC might want to believe that terror against Israelis or tourists visiting Israel does not exist, but it should not be forcing its views on everyone else and misleading the public with false reporting.

  95. 96 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 23:49

    @ Bryan

    Honestly speaking, You would make a good spokesman. I may not always agree with what you say all the time, but I admire the way you present and articulate your facts.

  96. 97 Bryan
    August 27, 2008 at 23:53

    nelsoni August 27, 2008 at 11:49 pm,

    Well, thanks for that nelsoni. I appreciate it.

    I’m not so good with the computer though. Just posted a busted link, then had to repost the correct one.

  97. 98 nelsoni
    August 27, 2008 at 23:55

    @ Bryan
    I will correct the first link for you

  98. 99 Shirley
    August 27, 2008 at 23:55

    Middle East Peace
    Now Israel is talking about withdrawing from some ridiculous percentage of the West Bank, like 93 or something.

    The 93% figure seems very large. However, it is a large proportion of a small area. In addition, my understanding that what has been taken by Israel is very rich agricultural land. AFP has reported that Israel plans to swap that with desert. Palestinian officials have been rejecting Israel’s offer – not because they want 100% and not 93% or because they want an equal trade of agriculturally rich land for agriculturally rich land, but because the deal itself undermines Palestinian sovereignty.

    Number of words: 99

  99. 100 Shirley
    August 27, 2008 at 23:57

    The same AFP article
    The deal does not provide for a contiguous Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital
    Palestinian officials are calling for territorial continuity
    The final Palestinian state would be demilitarized.
    Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat said, “We want a complete Israeli withdrawal from the territories it occupied in 1967, including [Occupied] Jerusalem, and agreement on all the final status questions.”

    One of the online factsheets about Palestine has noted that the Partition Plan allocated 55% of Palestine to Israel. By the end of the 1948 war, the Jewish state had taken 78% of Palestine. A site at The Jerusalem Fund states that Palestine’s share of land dropped from 9% in 1948 to less than 3% today. Not counted among those figures is the fact that 40% of West Bank land is consumed by Israeli settlements and related infrastructure.

    If all that is left for Palestine are a few crumbs, I think that Palestinians should have the right to demand the best of those crumbs.

    Number of words: 158

  100. 101 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 00:09

    @ steve,

    are you watching the DNC?

    so much for the hillary vs obama split

  101. 102 Bryan
    August 28, 2008 at 00:17

    nelsoni August 27, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    @ Bryan
    I will correct the first link for you

    Great, well that tidied things up, thanks.

  102. 103 Bryan
    August 28, 2008 at 00:31

    Shirley, you’ve had me reeling and against the ropes in those last four rounds.

    (Just kidding.) But that’s a tremendous amount of propaganda to deal with in one sitting, and don’t have much time so you’ll have to excuse me if I take it bit by bit and some other time. Meanwhile you might like to ponder the fact that the Palestinians have been the cause of most of their own problems simply because they cannot rid themselves of their obsessive desire to destroy Israel. It’s still written into their Charters and they have never renounced it.

    If you keep on ignoring the grim fact of Palestinian terror you will never come to an understanding of the conflict.

  103. 104 Dan
    August 28, 2008 at 00:31

    The Palestinians will NEVER get Jerusalem as their capitol. They never earned it, do not deserve it and before Jerusalem was liberated by Israel Arabs used Jewish shrines as toilets.
    That is NEVER going to happen again. Jerusalem is the undivided Capitol of Israel.
    The Palestinians could have had a fully functioning state by now but as the saying goes, “The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity”.
    For 60 years they have waged war on Israel and progressively have gone backwards. Perhaps if they waged peace they would find a wonderful partner in Israel and a true contiguous Palestinian state would emerge with economic ties to countries that will help the Palestinians belong to the 21st Century.

  104. 105 Shirley
    August 28, 2008 at 00:36

    107 Amy August 26, 2008 at 5:02 am (yesterday)
    Would the IUD be impermissible because it is left inside the woman’s body? What about implants placed in the arm? And, are there differences between a man using birth control and a woman using it? I am curious about what you said that a woman can use it without consulting her husband.

    Here are some excerpts from the book that I mentioned.

    Marriage and Morals in Islam
    by Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi
    Since all such pills inhibit ovulation, there is absolutely no problem in using them. The pills like the ‘morning-after’ and RU486 may be taken after the intercourse BUT not after feeling or knowing that pregnancy has already occurred. Depo-provera and other similar contraceptive methods by injection are also permissible. IUD: Shari’ pregnancy begins at implantation. [Shirley: My understanding is that IUDs can cause the loss of an impanted embryo. If this is even possible, then the IUD would be haram.] There is absolutely no problem in using barrier devices either. The permissibility of sterilization depends on whether or not it is reversible. The wife has full right to the use of contraceptives even without the approval of her husband. (Minhaj as-Salihin, Vol. 2, p. 276) This was the legal aspect of the shari’ah. But on a practical level, such decisions are best made with mutual consultation between the husband and the wife.

    The actual chapter was much longer, with a brief explanation of each and some more in=depth details on other related issues. I know that I was late in answering this; if you want to drop me an email, just mention it to the mods and they can help to make the connection inshallah.

  105. 106 Bryan
    August 28, 2008 at 00:39

    Good points Dan. The Palestinians are the author of their own misfortunes.

  106. 107 Venessa
    August 28, 2008 at 00:45

    portlandmike ~

    I used to be a big time mountain bike rider. It’s not so safe to do alone and most of my friends I used to ride with have moved away. I have done some road riding but I’m not a huge fan unless I get out of town. Breathing exhaust kinda sucks. However I do like it for the excercise but don’t have the money right now to afford a road bike.

  107. 108 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 00:55

    Is a password not supposed to be confidential?

    Man’s ‘pants’ password is changed

  108. 109 Dennis
    August 28, 2008 at 00:55

    regarding to the story, i posted earlier about passwords! i hope it is confidential!

    because i have several emails and college programmes that required a passwords.


  109. 110 Dennis
    August 28, 2008 at 01:00

    @ Exercise:
    in october 2008, in my next 7 week class at onondaga community college, my counsellor and my favourite secretary encouraged me to take the weight lifting course, because it will meet the physical education requirements for my degree curriculum….


  110. 111 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 01:01

    @ Dennis

    Confidential Passwords: That a 50:50 guess

  111. 112 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 01:10

    @ BBC radio,

    Out of curiosity decided to listen to some of the BBC’s online radio stations and i must say i am impressed by 5live and the streaming of all BBC’s Online Radio on real media is excellent.

  112. 113 Venessa
    August 28, 2008 at 01:30

    Dennis ~

    For my physical education requirement I took wilderness survival. It was sooo much fun and incidently the only class I’ve ever taken that is okay to bring dogs and knives to… 🙂

  113. 114 Roberto
    August 28, 2008 at 02:24

    Re: One of the online factsheets about Palestine has noted that the Partition Plan allocated 55% of Palestine to Israel.

    ——– It seems like anyone can whisper sweet nothings into your ear for favorable results.

    The bulk of the original Palestinian Mandate administered by the Brits was allocated to Jordan which has something like a 90% “Palestinian” population.

    That’s about 65-70% of the original mandate, leaving 30-35% remaining. Go to wiki with Palestinian Mandate search and see for yourself. The so called UN partion plan you mention can also be seen. Three blind men throwing darts could have done a better job than the UN drawing up those boundaries, however these were extremely contentious issues that have somewhat been resolved with subsequent wars.

    What is left today for Pals is maybe a quarter of that original 30-35% that remained, and they turned that down as well as burned their peace treaties with Israel in 2000.

    There will be no Palestinian state in our lifetimes. They don’t have the leadership, and surrounding Arab Islamic states are working against them, using them as cannon fodder in their proxy war against Israel.

    It’s a chronic lose/lose condition for the Pals.

  114. 115 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 02:28

    Democratic National Conference

    I am listening to Bill Clinton on 5live, That man is a born public speaker. Bill Clinton gives Obama backing

  115. 116 Julie P
    August 28, 2008 at 02:30


    I watched Bill’s speech. It was a good one.

  116. 117 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 02:36

    @ Julie P

    I totally agree with you. My curiously to try out 5live today paid off. Bill Clinton is one of the best public speakers in the world. I hope I can get a podcast of the speech. When he spoke at the last AIDS conference in Mexico, it had the same impact

  117. 118 Venessa
    August 28, 2008 at 02:37

    I saw the speech too. It was good.

  118. 119 Julie P
    August 28, 2008 at 02:38


    Before I head off to bed. Bill has always been a great orator.

  119. 120 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 02:43

    @ Julie P/ Venessa

    Any one doubting the Clinton’s commitment to Obama has a tough case.

    Good night Julie P

    I am still watching over things here

  120. 121 Venessa
    August 28, 2008 at 02:49

    I can’t help but think of all the great laughs we get for years to come from our current president’s speaking prowess!

  121. 122 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 03:02

    @ Venessa

    Bush jnr and clinton are light years apart in terms of speaking prowess

  122. 124 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 03:14

    it’s so quiet in WHYS land

  123. 125 Venessa
    August 28, 2008 at 03:17

    I think everyone is watching the DNC. I have it on but I’m just listening.

  124. 126 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 03:23

    @ Venessa
    I am listening to it online, BBC bias campaigners would have another weapon in their Arsenal if they don’t give the same coverage to the Republican Convention.

  125. 127 Anthony
    August 28, 2008 at 03:24

    I’m not listening or watching. I don’t care now that he chose Biden. I’ll just have to sit and pray that the “blue” wins while I play Call of Duty 4 on the Xbox 360.

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  126. 128 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 03:28

    @ Anthony

    Let not your heart be troubled

    I just hope a lot of people would not run way from the WHYS blog after November 4, 2008, because it’s going to be real fun.

  127. 129 Jessica in NYC
    August 28, 2008 at 03:38

    @ Nelsoni

    Bill Clinton is an amazing speaker. He made so many great points. One of my favorite endorsements was when he said, “I was too too young and too inexperienced to be Commander-in-Chief, sound familiar?… Obama is ready for THIS job.”

    RE Clinton’s speech in Mexico on AIDS: Yes it’s available, I have it on podcast.

    @ Anthony
    If you think the DNC is a pony show, wait until the RNC starts next week in the twin cities with bothers Bush and McCain.

  128. 130 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 03:48

    @ Jess in NYC

    I have the podcast of Clinton’s address at the AIDS conference.

    @ The Republican Convention: You just voiced my thoughts, I think it’s going to be boring …

    When Clinton said : “I was too young and too inexperienced to be Commander-in-Chief, sound familiar?… Obama is ready for THIS job.”

    That was definitely a high point of his endorsement.

  129. 131 Bob in Queensland
    August 28, 2008 at 03:49

    G’day all!

    I’m reading in gradually but have to be out on business most of this afternoon so may not contribute much. However, I thought I should comment on nesloni’s post about airline safety and fuel loads.

    The “minimum fuel load” referred to does NOT mean planes are arriving at their destination flying on fumes. The legal minimum requires that the plane be able to reach the primary destination, hold for X minutes, be able to attempt two landings, then fly to a designated alternate airport, have reserves to fly the pattern and land–AND STILL HAVE 45 MINUTES FUEL AS THEY LAND. If they believe they might drop below the 45 minute reserve, by law they have to declare this to air traffic–and if they actually hit the 45 minute mark they have to declare a full emergency.

    Having said all that, traditionally pilots have had the authority to add even more reserves if they believe conditions warrant it. Things that justify extra fuel are expected head winds or flights to busy airports where long holds are expected. By law the pilots are still the final authority on this–but now they are coming under real and/or implied pressure not to do this. Some airlines are demanding written justifications for example. Personally, I don’t think even this should happen–but I don’t see a conspiracy and I’m not scared off flying.

  130. 132 Shirley
    August 28, 2008 at 03:51

    I did the same thing – broke down your osts into one-liners to which I replied. Feel free. It might drag out over a while and perhaps even die off as one or the other or both become bored and turn to other things (you guys are discussing food: awesome!), which is also fine. I just felt like tkaing on something of a challenge as a way to launch myself into some more reading material.

    And you never know, we might find some common ground somewhere.

  131. 133 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 03:52

    @ Jess in NYC

    It’s almost 4am here,
    Staying up to listen to the DNC has definitely being worth it

  132. August 28, 2008 at 04:01

    @ DNC

    Ah… Barak has shown up! I wonder if Billary will come down for hugs?

  133. 135 Jessica in NYC
    August 28, 2008 at 04:06

    @ Nelsoni

    I’d would have stayed up all night too!

    Did you hear Biden speak? I liked the intro from his son, Bo Biden who is getting ready to be deployed to Iraq. Bill Clinton is a tuff act to follow, but instead of trying to out charm the master of charm, he tugged at American’s heart stings with “Remember when the world used to trust us?” Home run!

  134. 136 Jessica in NYC
    August 28, 2008 at 04:11

    @ Portlandmike

    Billary can’t come down for hugs… too much sport light sharing. The focus needs to be on Obama-Biden. I think Ms. Biden should have moved out of the camera shot and allowed Obama-Biden to hug. Someone needs to teach Michelle to lower her clap. She frequently has her hands in front of her face.

  135. 137 Amy
    August 28, 2008 at 04:16


    Thanks for getting back to me about contraceptives and Islam. I did read the link you supplied about fertility treatments. Very interesting. I’m curious about it because we almost needed it and I know what my Catholic teachings on those things are. I don’t agree with those teachings so I am always to see what other religions say about the matter.

  136. 138 Amy
    August 28, 2008 at 04:20

    Nelson – Get some sleep!!! As a mom, you are worrying me. I want to make sure you are getting enough sleep (even if you claim that 4 hours are enough) 🙂

  137. 139 Jessica in NYC
    August 28, 2008 at 04:25

    @ To the woman on McCain’s new TV ad with a Hillary supporter now backing McCain…

    PSST McCain thinks you’re too dumb to make choices about your health, life and future. It’s not going to be ok.

    *LOL, maverick. HAHA, he’s no Maverick, he’s Bush’s side kick.*

  138. 140 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 04:29

    @ Amy

    Wow!!! Thanks for your concern fortunately for me I don’t have lectures today, so once I go to bed, I will definitely exceed four hours. Apart from moderating, I have being doing some research on a future term paper. And listening to the DNC.

  139. 141 Julie P
    August 28, 2008 at 04:37


    What are you studying in college and what is your term paper about?

  140. 142 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 04:46

    @ Julie P

    I am currently studying chemical engineering (in my final year)

    but I intend to go back to study International Relations/Journalism

    so the “future ” term paper I am working on has to do with Double Standards In the International system, and I am trying to develop several case studies.

  141. 143 Amy
    August 28, 2008 at 04:56


    I have a degree in Broadcast Journalism. Good luck in your studies! I’m still going to worry that you aren’t getting enough sleep 🙂 Sorry, but it is the mom in me. I’m worried about Mohammed and him being away from his family for 8 years while he studies in China. I believe that today (the 28th) is his big moving day.

  142. 144 Julie P
    August 28, 2008 at 04:57


    Good luck with that. It sounds like a lot of work.

  143. 145 nelsoni
    August 28, 2008 at 05:02

    @ Julie P, Thanks

    @ Amy, Thanks. Yeah. Mohammed is moving today, I really admire his courage to choose china. I can’t stand the internet censorship, If I were there, I will always look for a way to bypass the great fire wall of china. Shame he would not be able to blog from there because wordpress is effectively blocked.

  144. 146 Julie P
    August 28, 2008 at 05:03


    While I was in college studying strategies the worst strategy to use is the follow the leader strategy. That’s what McCain is doing.

  145. 147 Amy
    August 28, 2008 at 05:08


    How is your friend holding up. These are going to be the most trying of days – those leading up to the funeral. I’ll keep her in my thoughts and prayers.

  146. 148 Julie P
    August 28, 2008 at 05:24


    We haven’t heard anything from her and I do not expect to hear anything from her for a while given that her fiance was burned beyond recogintion. When I posted that announcement the news of his death was extremely recent, so recent the burning car was still playing on the local news. I believe the president of the company was putting up airfare to bring her mother and grandmother here, since this was so unexpected and tragic.

  147. 149 Amy
    August 28, 2008 at 05:24

    Goodnight everyone!! I’m off to bed.

  148. 150 Roberto
    August 28, 2008 at 05:35

    Bush jnr and clinton are light years apart in terms of speaking prowess

    ——– Oh my gorsch. That’s like saying a barking dog sounds better than a howling cat.

    Please, former speaks in a.childish illiterate fashion, and the other speaks like fingernails writing a fancy script on a chalkboard.

    At any rate, when they come on, radio goes OFF Give them a D- for speechifyin’ and thank goodness they will enter the ashcan of history cojoined in incompetency.

    Last great speechifyer was Ronald Reagan. Obama shows some promise, but these days it’s all about marketing and not the product, so speeches don’t matter as much as a carefully crafted package.

  149. 151 Jessica in NYC
    August 28, 2008 at 05:57

    @ Julie

    RE your co-worker/friend, for now give her space. Remind yourself of the seven stages of grief. When she irrationally snaps at people, remember it’s not personal and has nothing to do with who forgot to make more coffee or refill the copier. Don’t try to talk to her about it, she’ll talk if she wants. Remember, she will be able to see the pity in someone’s face when they ask her anything and it will reminder her why they’re looking at her that way.

  150. August 28, 2008 at 06:00

    @ Jess in Nyc/ Moderators

    i am off for a while please

    can you help me moderate for a little bit?

  151. August 28, 2008 at 06:20

    BBC’s World Have Your Say: (IE. Not The Peoples’ Word.)

    I write the truth you fear publishing. This site is one that serves the corruption of allied governments. This sites serves to pick the truth clean and propagates only the skeleton of the truth, so that it can not be embodied. You aid to propagate the degeneration of sanity and are paid for it.. You are very afraid of the reality of the truth. You are told and trained to not allow yourself or the world to see it.

    Communication systems are implanted in individuals in every country and the number being used is frightening. The Earths major populous are mind controlled zombies. Subversion and exploitation keeps a bit in their mouth. The truth is being used one moment and in the next breath as a lie. A ascending censoring conscious bombarding controlled mass media exist formed from the very foundation of what is being called human civilization.

    You have done me a great disservice and I will forever hold it against you.. I will not aid you to my own demise.

  152. 154 Jessica in NYC
    August 28, 2008 at 06:34

    @ nelsoni
    Sure, I’m up for a bit longer. Good night.

  153. August 28, 2008 at 06:36

    @ Jess in NYC


    it’s actually

    6.35 am thursday here LOL

    i’m off to bed

  154. 156 Jamily5
    August 28, 2008 at 08:01

    I find the subject of Islam and BC quite interesting and will se eif I can find that book in an accessible format.

    We get what we pay for and that is unfortunate, because fresh fruit is more than canned, good meat is more than fatty meat, and prepared (even if it says weight control) has so many chems.
    It is not just about cost, though. It is about time.
    It takes more time to prepare fresh than frozen or box.
    And, if you buy fresh fruit,m unlike canned fruit, you have to worry about it going bad and then, going to the store again.
    It is all about priorities and habit and comfort.
    when I started eating fresh instead of canned or box or (in some cases) frozen, I had to get use to it.
    now, it is a habit.
    A nutricianist friend of mine counsels people and tell them change one thing at a time.

    And, we don’t want people telling us how much we should eat.
    Yes, the market has driven us to expect more and more food.
    Imagine a restaurant charging same prices for smaller portions.
    It would not work, here.

  155. 157 Tom
    August 28, 2008 at 08:23

    @ Jen,

    portion size is a major issue … because everything has to be bigger, more cheese, more high fructose syrup etc etc.

    I wonder why this has to be the case. I’m from Melbourne, Australia, where obesity is fast becoming a serious health issue. A burger that I ordered at a restaurant was served on a 40cm plate with the burger occupying half the plate and the remaining half was completely filled with potato chips and salads. The burger itself was too thick to be eaten in bites. There is no way that anyone would be able to finish the whole lot without seriously damanging his/her health. It was just a blatant waste of food and an encouragement to over-eating. I’d rather them charging half the price and halving the portion size.

  156. 158 Jonathan
    August 28, 2008 at 09:08

    @Steve, you’ve announced about 112 times your prediction that McCain will win. Would you care to enlighten us about exactly what leads you to think that?

  157. 159 Jonathan
    August 28, 2008 at 10:22

    @Good Food — @Nick et alia–

    Funny you should mention this just now. I’ve been reading and hearing all about good, delicious, healthy food for days now, because on Monday my city of San Francisco will be consumed with an event called “Slow Food Nation.” There’s a whole consciousness, here anyway, about the importance of food, from the farm through the kitchen to the plate. Organically grown, fresh ingredients, chosen with care, prepared with love and expertise, enjoyed at leisure and at a slow pace, food is a sensual delight.

    This would be the Italian way, versus the American way, which seems to be stuffing down vast amounts of bland, chemically treated, overcooked, fatty, awful “food,” as fast as possible, often with hardly any apparent chewing, and ideally without leaving the car.

    Take a look at the (awful) web page of slowfoodnation.org, or just google “slow food nation,” for information on the philosophy and the practices and processes.

    Nick, you asked a couple of other things I can’t think of just now, but I wanted to get this up before the page is history. You can see the anatomy of links by viewing the source code of this page from your browser. Then just copy their tags.

  158. 160 Jonathan
    August 28, 2008 at 10:41

    @Lubna ~

    There’s no mystery at all about how to solve world hunger; its been clear for decades. Capitalist countries all produce more food than they consume. Socialist countries always have food shortages. So capitalism and free markets are the solution to hunger everywhere they exist, and the solution to world hunger if they’re adopted by the world.

    That was easy! More good news:

    For Nick (I think?) and others who hold the remarkably cruel, but fortunately deluded, opinion that if people have enough food, they will reproduce faster than the food supply, I’ll point out for easily the 20th time that (a) that hasn’t happened, isn’t happening, and won’t happen, and (b) when people adopt capitalism and enjoy the higher standard of living that results, they have fewer children. Everywhere, every time, always. Europe is already well into negative population growth, with some unpleasant results.

  159. 161 Jonathan
    August 28, 2008 at 10:55


    The time to prepare for circumventing the great firewall of China is while you’re still in a free country. It’s not that hard to do. I posted some useful info a couple of months ago, but anyone can google “great firewall of china” and learn all kinds of ways to get wordpress ad everything else.

    Just google it from a free country. Once you’re in China, it’s harder to get the information. You need to hang out with a 14 year old nerd you can trust.

  160. 162 Jonathan
    August 28, 2008 at 11:11

    @ clouding the issue with facts–

    This page is a great example of why it’s such a great idea to learn the facts and know what we’re talking about before we go off inventing wacky conspiracies and huffy outrage and other nonsense.

    There w as a post with a link to a story about fuel in airliners. Suddenly the air was thick with noise about corruption in the FAA, the “greed” (of course) of airlines, and endless huffin’ and puffin’ and yadda yadda.

    Finally Bob joined us and calmly supplied the real facts. Case closed, game over. Until next time, sigh. Does anyone even care about getting the story straight, or are we all so amused with the froth from the top of our heads that it’s just as satisfying as reality? What a dismal end to thousands of years of civilizatiion and snlightenment: a return to the dark ages of ignorance, superstition, and mumbo jumbo.

  161. 163 Jonathan
    August 28, 2008 at 11:15

    Um, that would be “enlightenment,” not “snlightenment,” in my post of a minute ago.

  162. 164 Bryan
    August 28, 2008 at 11:16

    Dunno what happened there. Maybe if I include a link to Justin Webb’s blog the comment automatically joins the big blog in the sky? Well, I’ll try it again without the link:


    Justin Webb, the BBC’s North America ‘editor’ is once again shamelessly demonstrating his political bias in favour of the Democrats:

    It was stunning – a moment of brilliantly produced political theatre and a moment to cherish forever. Television conveys something but to be there, to see a death and a birth; that was something else.

    Now if Webb says anything remotely similar at the Republican Convention, provided he actually bothers to attend it, I’ll eat my monitor.

    This last bit is also quite instructive, if one wants to understand where Webb, and so many of his fellow-travellers of the BBC are coming from:

    As people cried and hugged each other and the music blared, I thought of the little black children stolen from their parents, the daily cruelty and humiliation suffered by black people in this country for so long in what one historian calls “America’s Original Sin” and to a lesser extent, the daily miseries they still endure. [My emphasis.] From slavery to the nomination of a black man as the leader of a major party.

    So here we have a senior journalist from the ‘impartial’ BBC bearing the banner aloft for a political party with emotion-laden prose: Barack Obama will be the hero, the black Superman who will fly in, cape billowing behind him, to right the wrongs still endured by black America. This is actually insulting to the memory of Martin Luther King. If King were alive, I have no doubt he would explain to Webb that the dream has long been realised, that blacks have full equality and rights in America and to keep on blaming the white man for their problems is the mother of all cop outs.

    Webb is not simply biased here, he is actively campaigning for the Democrats – and revealing his own ‘liberal’ left orientation along the way.

  163. 165 selena in Paris
    August 28, 2008 at 11:45


    For once, I totally agree with you. (cut the beam!) 😉

    And I remind everyone of my first assessment of Obama. People ran to his bandwagon simply because of his ability to give a good speech. He was not experienced; he had a wishy-washy track record; he was literally unknown. But he was a natural charismatic speaker. Not the reasoned natural speaker of the Bill
    Clinton variety but the kind of speaker who says nothing, yet can persuade people to drink the cool aid.

    This is not good coming from Justin Webb. It clearly demonstrates how people can get caught up in charismatic events.

    That is why I fear the Obama type politics. Not because of Obama, who may be innocent enough, but because of the potential of many people to follow blindly.

    Here is an example of the blind leading the blind.


  164. 166 Dan
    August 28, 2008 at 12:00

    Obama is a lightweight doomed to fail because he has no programs and stands for nothing he only has good speeches.
    Last night Michelle Obama was staring daggers of hate at Bill Clinton until someone told her she was on camera.
    The sad part is that this morning people are starting “Chelsea 2016” how disgusting.

  165. 167 Tom
    August 28, 2008 at 12:16

    @ Dan,

    Do you think the American voters are in general immune from the influence of a candidate’s good speeches, or popular politics, when casting their votes?

  166. 168 Bob in Queensland
    August 28, 2008 at 12:18

    @ Jonathan

    I was thinking of posting a rumour that there’s a CIA conspiracy to end conspiracy theories….

  167. 169 Katharina in Ghent
    August 28, 2008 at 12:22

    Hi Kate,

    I expected nothing but the fullest support from Hillary and Bill Clinton, after all, Obama helped Hillary pay for the debts she ran into during her campaign:


    Personally, I think that the political weight of a former leader should be more limited than it seems to be, Putin should not have been allowed to become Prime Minister, and Bill Clinton should retire with honours. His time is over, and it would be grand if he (and the people who still look up to him) could finally realize that. I don’t know whether Obama will become president, my gut feeling says “no” but I may be (hopefully) wrong.

  168. 170 Bob in Queensland
    August 28, 2008 at 12:26

    Re: Food

    Inspired in large part by today’s talking points, Caer and I created an artificial challenge of seeing how cheaply we can create good and healthy main meals for the next three days. (We limited it to our main evening meal because brunch tends to just be a sandwich anyway and we already have everything in the house.)

    Anyway, after our shop today, the answer is that we’re doing 3 evening meals for a family of 3 for a bit under Aus$10. That’s about US$9.50 or £4.50.

    The menu includes a nice hearty vegetable beef soup one night, a Thai noodle and vegetable stirfry another night and devilled sausages with mashed potato on the third. Actually, I suspect we’ll get a fourth meal out of the money because I’m the soup maker and I don’t know how to make a small batch of soup.

    Fruit and veg came from a local greengrocer and is all pretty local–maybe 150 miles range at most but mainly from very nearby. Meat is also local and from a traditional butcher who was willing to sell a large back of soup bones and small quantities of the other stuff we need.

    None of the meals will take more than 15 or 20 minutes to prepare–except the soup which only needs a few minutes of prep but then simmers for a couple of hours.

    So, it can be done!

  169. 171 Bob in Queensland
    August 28, 2008 at 12:31

    Re: American Politics

    I know US politics tends to be pretty cut-throat but, is it just me or is McCain running one of the most negative campaigns I’ve seen in a long time. I’ve heard very little about what his policies are, mainly just that Obama is an unready lightweight.

    I’m not impressed but then I’m not an American voter.

    Closing aside: is anyone ever “ready” to be POTUS? I don’t see a term as a state governor being much use, nor would several terms in Congress or the Senate really help all that much. I see it as much more a “step up to the plate and do your best” kind of job. Mind you, time in politics does give you a good load of political baggage to carry with you…

  170. 172 Dan
    August 28, 2008 at 12:36

    @ Tom
    I never underestimate the American electorates stupidity. However I think that we only get politicians from the bottom of the barrel as the media gives a candidate a public anal exam. Who wants to go thru that?

  171. 173 Katharina in Ghent
    August 28, 2008 at 12:37

    @ Bob

    I would only fear those who claim they are “ready!”. Ever met a parent-to-be five days before their first baby was born saying “they were ready for the new challenge”? Remember seeing them five days after that baby was born? Two very different sets of people, really! The only people “ready” are those who feel that they’re not, because they won’t stop preparing until they start the new challenge for real.

  172. 174 Julie P
    August 28, 2008 at 12:38


    McCain has nothing to offer, so all he has is negative campaigning.

  173. August 28, 2008 at 12:39

    Hi Kate
    Another ageing plane from Asseman Airways of Iran crashed on Sunday in Kirghizistan killing 68 of the 90 passengers and crew on board. The ordeal of Iranian air passengers will continue so long as sanctions are in force which prohibit sale of aeroplane parts to Iran.
    In spite of reassurances that international sanctions are aimed at the Administration and not the people of Iran, air travel is a threat to passenger safety and planes fall out of the skies each month if not every week.
    Topolev aircrafts leased from the Ukraine and others leased from Russia are simply not fit to fly in Iran. These crafts are outdated and their foreign crews simply can’t cope with conditions here.
    The price of air travel is far too cheap and airline companies can not afford proper maintenance and service of their fleet.
    Iran Air cancelled some ten flights recently due to faulty parts on its planes. Is there not some international body which can regulate, supervise and enforce safety measures for air travel in Iran? What’s more, rail links are weak or non-existant and roads are probably more hazardous than air travel.

  174. 176 Dan
    August 28, 2008 at 14:05

    @ Akbar Javadi
    Could it be that the root cause of the airliner crash may be that Iran has shut itself off from the world and aligned with the Russians. What do you think?
    The world buys the American & European aircraft as they have proven reliability and performance.
    I noticed that Ahmenidijad has been denounced by a major Ayatollah. is change in the air?

  175. August 28, 2008 at 16:04

    Hi Dan
    Pls refer:
    The airline industry is a fiasco in Iran. part of the problem is sanctions. lack of efficient management is another issue. Few routes will tolerate Iranian airlines.
    This hs been going on for the last thirty years.
    The world abandoned Iran long before Tehran isolated itself.
    Change is on the way here since the chaos, inflation, public discontent, unemployment and strong-arm tactics by the government have failed to quell riots across the country. It is a matter of time before the whole nation rises against tyranny.
    Prelates are the scourge of the region, whether in Iraq, Afghanistan or Lebanon. Finally the US presidential campaign and Russia, Georgia incident may have postponed further developments in Iran for the time being.

  176. 178 Dennis
    August 28, 2008 at 16:38

    John McCain: Has nothing to offered than a NEGATIVE outlook with “threats” of another Cold War With the Russians….He is also, advocating like Bush did following 9-11-2001, That if a Democrat would win, that Al-Qaeda would be attack the United States…


  177. 179 Virginia Davis
    August 28, 2008 at 17:08

    Dear me! Today’s question is a delight for all those who mistrust the American political process; for all those who are critical of politicians (you just direct your points against Obama); for all those who like or dislike the Clintons; for all those who are convinced that Americans are led around by the media. Which gets us back to: Did the Democrats pick the wrong person?

    The point of a primary is to pick a person. In this primary, almost a woman. Which has some very resentful people – women and men organizing to support McCain. Did they ever have an idea of what is involved in being a member of the Democratic party and what ideas are associated with Democrats compared with the Republicans? And what the histories of the two major parties are? I don’t think so.

    If the Democrats have an involved process to pick a person as their candidate, and they follow it -more or less (Florida & Michigan) – how could they not pick the right person?

    Or if the Democrats “pick the wrong person” is that to say that if Obama/Biden don’t win the election, therefore he/they will be (were) the wrong person(s)?

    Does it really matter who “the right person (Democrat) is,” because the only (historically accurate?) function of a democracy is to periodically “throw the bums out” and if the Americans can’t get rid of the Republicans, that is to say they elect McCain, the Americans have failed?

    My gracious. I picked Obama in 2004 just listening to him. I like good rhetoric.
    Ted Koppel interviewed him at that time and decided he was “a rising star.”
    Now Obama’s problem seems to be to be more than “just a good speaker.”

    I assume that people who are articulate actually know how to think. So my answer is, and has been throughout most of the primary, I believe we (Democrats) picked the right person and that Obama made a good choice in Joe Biden for his VP.

    As for his decision to put the Clintons center stage in the second and third days of the convention, it worked. It was setting up good theater and it worked. Even though Oregon didn’t get its words in before Senator Clinton asked for acclamation. (I find Billary offensive to both parties; as if they were of one mind/person which obviously they are not!)

    And Amy is right, Michelle Obama needs to let us see her face when she is clapping. She is also definitely “the right person.”

    Virginia in Oregon

  178. 180 steve
    August 28, 2008 at 19:52

    @ Dennis


    Putin is the one blaming the US for the Georgian war. That Russian thug needs to go.

  179. 181 Bryan
    August 28, 2008 at 22:48

    selena in Paris August 28, 2008 at 11:45 am,

    I’m glad we agree. A couple of people commenting on Webb’s blog regard him as the new Alistair Cooke.


    Anyone who listened to the late, great Cooke’s ‘Letter from America’ will know that he was a superb, immensely knowledgeable journalist and a born story-teller with a fine turn of phrase. It was also difficult to tell where he stood politically, which is how it should be. There is nobody currently at the BBC who comes anywhere close to Cooke and to compare Justin Webb to him is absurd.

    Bob in Queensland August 28, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    I know US politics tends to be pretty cut-throat but, is it just me or is McCain running one of the most negative campaigns I’ve seen in a long time.

    Agreed. Actually I’m not sure I would trust either him or Obama to manage their way out of a paper bag let alone manage a country.

  180. 182 Bryan
    August 28, 2008 at 22:53

    selena in Paris August 28, 2008 at 11:45 am,

    I’m glad we agree. A couple of people commenting on Webb’s blog regard him as the new Alistair Cooke.

    Anyone who listened to the late, great Cooke’s ‘Letter from America’ will know that he was a superb, immensely knowledgeable journalist and a born story-teller with a fine turn of phrase. It was also difficult to tell where he stood politically, which is how it should be. There is nobody currently at the BBC who comes anywhere close to Cooke and to compare Justin Webb to him is absurd.

    Bob in Queensland August 28, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    I know US politics tends to be pretty cut-throat but, is it just me or is McCain running one of the most negative campaigns I’ve seen in a long time.

    Agreed. I wish we could hear more about his policies rather than all this clever, self-congratulatory crap and putting the other guy down.

    Problem is, if Obama gets in it will be really bad for America.

  181. 183 Jonathan
    August 28, 2008 at 23:13

    @ Bryan–

    Your quotation from a BBC story describing the reaction to a speech contained no factual errors. (Your fantasy that black people do not endure insults, etc. does not change the fact that they do.) It was what’s known as a “sights and sounds” piece, a perfectly legitimate, well-accepted, long-practiced type of story. If you want to be taken seriously as the journalism critic you persistently pretend to be, you should start by actually learning something about the principles and practices of journalism.

    Your bitter complaint about unfair coverage of an event that hasn’t happenned yet is baffling. You can’t credibly complain about something before it occurs. Write your outraged review now, save it as a text file, and then post it after the event and its coverage have actually taken place. Of course, by having published your opinion in advance, you’ve lost any hope of credibility.

    By the same token, you can’t reasonably stuff words into the mouth of a dead person and describe your expectation that he would say them. There is no reason whatever to think that Martin Luther King, if he were alive, would say that black people enjoy full equality in the US. If you believe that ridiculous, demonstrably false notion, then just assert it yourself honestly and openly under your own name (or, if you prefer, that of a convenient visitor), and back it up. Then put on your running shoes for the moment when I demolish it and you suddenly remember a pressing engagement you need to go to.

    It’s not that your fantasies aren’t interesting, but that they should be labeled as such. It’s inellectually honest, it’s normal practice, and it would reassure that you comprehend and recognize the bright line between reality and fantasy.

  182. 184 Jonathan
    August 28, 2008 at 23:14

    @WHYS–Sorry post so long but at least it’s on a dead page.

  183. 185 Dennis
    August 29, 2008 at 03:04

    @ Steve:
    i know, russia is guilty of the problems in georgia!

    @ my future education goals: i will be staying in syracuse, new york at onondaga community college and then transferring into a four-year suny college [state university of new york] college/university, closer to my home in st. lawrence county.

    @ my post: my favourite secretary at occ: ann marie antonio help me with the schedule i will be having on tuesday [next].


  184. 186 Dennis
    August 29, 2008 at 03:28

    About Iranian airplanes:
    i hope that the international community, will help the airlines in the country on basic ground of humanity and not lift the sanctions of the government.


  185. 187 John in Germany
    August 30, 2008 at 14:03

    Has any one thought of this.

    One gold medal, 100.000dollars in a suite case. not bad for a country that has an inflation rate better that the Reichmark. Thousand dying from hunger. Sickness prevalent,and no one has the money to help. And the sportly person took the dollars from Mugabe, unless i am not properly informed. She should be ashamed of herself for not taking them and giving them to a good cause in Zimbabwe.. And Mugabe what can one say, nothing that has not been said before. and any thing else is blasphemy.

    The worlds ice is melting, the political situation is getting very cold, and UNO, nor the EU are able to deal. Just scratching their heads, and hoping to see the light, what light?. Both big organisations on the move, but with all of those steering wheels, no chance of getting there. Listening to the reporter from the UNO in the night, and suddenly really awake, the girl was not afraid to say the truth is UNO affective—-No.
    Get rid of the Veto rights, and a better picture would appear. or may be not?.

    A fresh breeze is in the air, Obama. i pray for that man everyday, and ask Luther King to look after him. All of our leaders are on my list.

    Greetings all.

    John in Germany.

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