Blank Page No. 21

Jessica’s taking charge of the Blank Page from New York City. If you’d like to follow suit next weekend, let me know.

Greetings Everyone:

I’d like to welcome everyone to the WHYS weekend blog. It’s my first weekend as the moderator/editor, so if I miss something feel free to give me a shout-out. I am very excited to spend the weekend with you and look forward to a lively discussion.

Topics ideas for discussions:

1) Science: Stem cell research has been very controversial over the years with new developments in recent reports, will the heath benefits finally overcome the religious objections? The story from the BBC: Stem cells Created from teeth

2) Politics: Obama said yesterday that he has selected a VP, but declined to give any details saying, “I won’t comment on anything else until I introduce our running mate to the world.” Any guess on who the VP will be or comments on who was chosen, since it is very likely Senator Obama will make the announcement this Saturday? The person(s) who guesses accurately will win a prize. Maybe not an Olympic gold medal, but bragging rights can be just as fun.

3) Just for a laugh: I got big laugh out of two articles in recent weeks from Newsweek that I’d like to share. Do you agree with the back lash from readers against the author or teaching his child to be “intolerant”?

1st Newsweek article: Make. It. Stop. The case for ending our long national nightmare

2nd Newsweek article in response to the backlash: A Croc of … Wit, Readers lash a rant against the popular rubber clog


592 Responses to “Blank Page No. 21”

  1. 1 Dennis
    August 22, 2008 at 19:32

    hi, jessica

    welcome to the moderators table…

    i hope we can outbeat my weekend and the last weekend numbers!


  2. 2 Dennis
    August 22, 2008 at 19:33

    the suspense of barrack obama, decision of a vp is getting to become a story!

    please tell the final of this chapter…..

    i am waiting…


  3. 3 steve
    August 22, 2008 at 19:36

    In DC public schools, it’s being proposed to pay students to behave.


    Good or bad idea?

  4. 4 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 19:38

    Thanks Dennis, I hope to keep up with you from last weekend.

    RE the suspense of the Obama vp choice is getting silly…. but then again, I am one of those silly people registers to get a text message from the Obama campaign when the announcement goes out. My mobile phone and charger go with me everywhere.

  5. 5 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 19:44

    Hi Jess welcome to interesting world of moderating the WHYS blog.

  6. 6 Angela in Washington
    August 22, 2008 at 19:47


    Horrible idea

  7. 7 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 19:48

    @ steve. Interesting, so what happens to their behaviour outside the four walls of the school? I think the district has surplus on it’s budget.

  8. 8 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 19:50

    @ Steve, one more thing, what happens when the plug is pulled on the cash incentives?

  9. 9 Katharina in Ghent
    August 22, 2008 at 19:55

    Hi Jess,

    Welcome to the moderating table. If you need help, just shout, either I or somebody else with moderation rights will almost certainly be online and able to help…

    Re. stem cells:

    This sounds almost too good to be true. Of course, wisdom teeth are the last to emerge in your mouth, so the potential to find stem cells there seems to be quite big. The question though is whether scientists will be able to reprogram these cells so that they are able to behave like embryonic stem cells. If not, I’d still be happy to grow a few teeth back 😦

  10. 10 steve
    August 22, 2008 at 19:56

    @ nelsoni

    I suppose they will pay the students to stop rioting after the program gets the plug pulled.

  11. 11 Dennis
    August 22, 2008 at 19:56

    I just checking the Blank Page calendar, we should be at Blank Page 21 not at 22….

    Could someone check the information for me! And update the friends.


  12. 12 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 19:58

    @ Kathi ~ Yeah, there is always moderator online. Especially those of us who have sold part of our sleeping rights …

  13. 13 Katharina in Ghent
    August 22, 2008 at 19:59

    Re. Crocs:

    In Austrian hospitals they have been outlawed recently. Doctors and nurses really liked to wear them, but they’re not anti-static, so the surgeon could give some really sensitive equipment a shock and kill the patient right on the table. Personally, I don’t own them and I really can’t see the appeal in them, but they’re quite popular here, too.

  14. 14 Julie P
    August 22, 2008 at 20:00


    I thought you were an insomniac or even a vampire?! You mean you like to sleep?! I’m shocked! 😉

  15. 15 Dennis
    August 22, 2008 at 20:00

    About the school paying money to behave: Good idea until the money runs out….
    Then trouble is coming fast.


  16. 16 Venessa
    August 22, 2008 at 20:00

    Monetary compensation for good behavior is crap and won’t work. They need to find a different method. Something is seriously wrong with the people proposing this.

  17. 17 Katharina in Ghent
    August 22, 2008 at 20:01

    @ Nelson

    I just don’t know how you do that! Even if I decided that “I can do with less sleep, I’m a strong person”… I just know (from experience) that at the latest after two short nights I can apply for the Zombie-part in the Simpsons. 😉

  18. 18 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:02

    @ Steve. On the flip side, a small percentage who may have drug habits, more money for their habit. May be I am wrong but handing out to cash to students to behave properly shows a massive failure of the school authorities to enforce discipline in the school.

  19. 19 Katharina in Ghent
    August 22, 2008 at 20:03

    @ Nelson again:

    I have a suspicion: either you have a sleepless baby at home or you’re already training to become the best father in the world! LOL!

  20. 20 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:06

    @ Kathi ~ and Julie P. In my early teens, I calculated that if I sleep for 8 hours a day, by the time I am 60, I would have spent one third of my life sleeping. That did the trick. Fours hours will suffice for me. The rest twenty hours are spent on productive ventures, blogging/moderating @ WHYS inclusive.

  21. 21 Venessa
    August 22, 2008 at 20:08

    Crocs ~ they are hideous and seem to be a phenomenon around here too. Another shameful shoe fashion that became popular….Reminds me of jellies.

  22. 22 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:08

    @ Kathi~ lol. . I’m still in University, fatherhood not on the agenda yet.

  23. 23 steve
    August 22, 2008 at 20:08

    @ Vanessa

    Maybe it’s a last resort for the school system, which is failing? I think they realize they can’t rely on the parents to discipline and encourage diligent school work, so what can they do with students that don’t want to be there?

    If these were kids coming from traditional nuclear families, then this policy would be insane, as you sohuldn’t need to be paid to behave in school. The motivation of succeeding in school and in life would be enough. But these are inner city DC schools, with single parents families, probably no discipline, kids are in gangs, will likely wind up in jail one day..

  24. 24 Venessa
    August 22, 2008 at 20:10

    nelsoni ~

    I can’t agree with you more about the failure of discipline. I guess the best solution for any problem is to just throw money at it. We’ve all seen how well that works.

  25. 25 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:11

    @ Kathi, hope this can make a WHYS topic someday. How many hours of sleep do you need to be productive? Or does our sleeping patterns affect our productivity?

  26. 26 Venessa
    August 22, 2008 at 20:11

    Steve ~

    I highly doubt paying them will give these “educators” the outcome they seek. Talk to some child behavior specialists and see what they have to say.

  27. 27 Dennis
    August 22, 2008 at 20:12

    @ sleep:

    if i don’t get at least 8 hours a night! i am not going to be very nice the next day–pretty much…


  28. 28 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 20:12

    @ nelsoni– Thanks for the welcome.

    @ Katharina in Ghent– Thanks for the welcome and the offer. Can I take you up on it in 2 hours? I’ll be leaving work and could use the help, until I get home.

    @ Dennis– I blame Ros for the error in counting. 🙂 I’ll change it shortly. I’m just excited that I mange to make my hyperlinks work. Thanks for the heads up.

  29. 29 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:15

    @ Venessa, Imagine those kind of kids getting home and demanding for payment to behave properly … As steve said if the motivation to succeeding in school and life is not enough to behave properly, then money of all things is introduced as incentive, then we got a big problem.

  30. 30 Venessa
    August 22, 2008 at 20:15

    Welcome Jessica! Looking forward to some more interesting discussions this weekend.

  31. 31 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 22, 2008 at 20:15

    Paying students to behave at school…

    it is a bad idea for what it means: parents are not doing their job regarding their children education. It is not the children fault, but those who raise them.

  32. 32 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 22, 2008 at 20:16

    Welcome Jessica! Have a blast 😉

  33. 33 Venessa
    August 22, 2008 at 20:17

    nelsoni ~

    Exactly! I actually emailed the story to a couple friends of mine that specialize in child behavioral problems to see what they think. I’ll be curious what they have to say.

  34. 34 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:17

    @ Dennis, that means by the time you are 60 years, you would have spent approximately 20 years sleeping.

  35. 35 Katharina in Ghent
    August 22, 2008 at 20:19

    @ Dennis and Nelson:

    I also need eight hours of rest. If I slept only four hours every night, I wouldn’t even be able to get the car out of the driveway! Apart from that, I really like lying in bed, it’s a great place to be! Soft pillow, warm blanket… gotta go!

  36. August 22, 2008 at 20:20

    @ Dennis,
    you are right. This is blank page 21, not 22. I corrected it. Thanks for the alert.

  37. 37 steve
    August 22, 2008 at 20:21

    @ Luz Ma

    I have a feeling if we wait for parents to parent, hell will freeze over first, or pigs will fly. Whichever is less likely to happen. truth be told, my parents never once told me to do my homework. I knew on my own to do it, because I feared doing poorly in school, becuase I realized it would impact my life. You really, all of you, need to see Hard Times at Douglas High, about a school in Baltimore, MD.

  38. 38 Venessa
    August 22, 2008 at 20:22

    Katharina ~

    I’m with you. I don’t necessarily need 8 hours of sleep but I sure do enjoy lying in bed snuggled up and cozy.

  39. 39 Katharina in Ghent
    August 22, 2008 at 20:24

    @ Schools:

    My son starts first grade this September and I just read the rule book – about 16 pages in Dutch 😦 Unless I missed it, they didn’t mention anything about paying the kids to behave, but they mentioned something about “yellow card” and “red cards”, apart from notifications to the parents and parent-teacher meetings in case of problems. Oh yes, and they want money for various activities… Me thinks they got it all wrong!

  40. 40 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 20:24

    @ Venessa– LOL! Personally, I agree and think crocs are a hideous plastic abomination to all feet.

    @ Luz– Gracias.

  41. 41 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:24

    @ Kathi ~, I think it has to do with conditioning of the body. I made that calculation in my early teens, that influenced my sleep pattern. I think the medical guys say you need at least eight hours of sleep but several people are an exception to that rule.

  42. 42 Sheikh Kafumba Dukuly
    August 22, 2008 at 20:25

    @ Jessica. Steering the BP page is a huge responsibility but i bet Jess is up to the task. I hope the weekend discussion will be interesting.

  43. 43 Katharina in Ghent
    August 22, 2008 at 20:26

    @ Jess:

    I’ll try to be around in two hours from now, but that will be almost midnight here (see: need eight hours of sleep); but I see that Venessa, Julie, Steve, Luz Ma and Nelson are also online (did I miss a moderator?), so don’t worry. I’ll definitely be around (my) tomorrow morning, while you’ll probably be asleep.

  44. 44 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:27

    @ Steve/Luz Ma, when the parents are busy working hard to make ends meet to pay the bills, they have less time for the children so the school now has to offer them money to behave properly. That’s a serious indictment on all the concerned parties.

  45. 45 roebert
    August 22, 2008 at 20:28

    We pay our politicians a fortune to behave and they can’t do it; so why would the kids succeed?

    Most people seem to be saying that kids are getting worse all the time, but I think it’s the education system that’s to blame. Kids are put under too much strain to prepare themselves for a stressful career in a godawful world-economic-system. This means that education itself becomes a stressful business instead of what it ought to be: an interesting and enlightening process of discovering what it means to be human. In other words: Get the humanities back on the agenda. Teach our kids to be complete human beings before clinically preparing them for their role as system functionaries.

    My own experience, having raised and educated four kids: good schools with good curricula seldom turn out bad kids.

    As for the ‘I’ll pay ya to be good’ philosophy; my response would be: as long as you pay them out of your own salary, teacher.

  46. 46 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 22, 2008 at 20:30

    @Sleeping patterns
    I have always been a sleeping beauty…LOL. I love sleeping, I am good at it…haha!!! When I was a newborn, my mom had to wake me up to feed me (which she should be grateful for, since I was not a demanding baby). It was difficult for me when I had my own babies, since I had to wake up every three hours at night.

    My best time was when I was pregnant with my first daughter. I slept 12 hours per day. It was great.

    Thank God is Friday… tomorrow I don´t have to wake up early 😉

  47. 47 Anthony
    August 22, 2008 at 20:30

    Hamlet 2. Anyone heard about this movie? With Jesus doing naughty things then saying “If my dad knew what I was doing he would crusify me” and a song called “rock me sexy Jesus”. I just think it’s funny that no on e would ever THINK about making something like that about Mohammad!!!

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  48. 48 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:32

    @ Kathi~ & Venessa, I know this may not readily come to mind but one third of the day sleeping, is quite a lot. Like I said, over 60 years, that’s 20 years just alone on sleep. That’s quite a lot.

  49. 49 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 20:32

    @ Katharina in Ghent

    No worries, I’ll bribe one one of the others. Good night and thanks for helping tomorrow.

    @ Sheikh Kafumba Dukuly

    Thanks and I’ll try to make it interesting.

  50. 50 steve
    August 22, 2008 at 20:32

    @ Nelsoni

    “@ Steve/Luz Ma, when the parents are busy working hard to make ends meet to pay the bills, they have less time for the children so the school now has to offer them money to behave properly. That’s a serious indictment on all the concerned parties.”

    I’m not saying in all cases, but this is DC. It could be very well that the parent(s) could be on welfare, not work, have tons of free time, but still don’t parent. I’m sure in many cases, the parents are simply too busy. But both of my parents worked. In fact, just about all of my friends from high school and middle school had both parents work. I think only two of my friends had stay at home moms, and they got worse grades than those of us who had both parents work.

  51. 51 Julie P
    August 22, 2008 at 20:35

    @Luz Ma,

    I was the same way as a child and my parents loved it, especially after two others who were the type to get up at the crack of dawn. I used to sleep until 11 in the morning. I still need plenty of sleep and I love it. In fact, I was just wishing for a twenty minute power nap. Somehow I think the VP would object, so I’ll take my nap over the weekend! 🙂

  52. 52 Roberto
    August 22, 2008 at 20:36

    Re Obama Veep:

    If he wants change, he’s gonna have to have a veep that reflects this.

    I haven’t heard much of Bill Richardson being on anyone’s short list, but he represents big changes in the country. Has a George Bush Sr kind of man of all seasons political resume and was a candidate for the 2008 primaries.

    Very well respected across party and racial lines, very well spoken and just the kind of go to experienced guy for the specialized assignments Obama claims to want his veep to take on.

    Does a good funeral urology also as the late great Archie Bunker used to say.

  53. 53 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:37

    @ Luz ma, 12 hours, should be a record !!

  54. 54 Katharina in Ghent
    August 22, 2008 at 20:41

    @ Nelson

    After my son was born, I didn’t get a good nights sleep for over 18 months… and when he was 20 months, we moved to Gent which screwed up his sleeping pattern once again! That was certainly one of the hardest times of my life, It is one thing to decide “from now on I will sleep only four hours per night” and another “Hell knows in how many minutes he will wake up again…and again… and again” Sometimes he made me get up every hour on the hour, and not go back to sleep for at least half an hour. So for the rest of my life I have to catch up with the sleep that I lost during that time.

  55. 55 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 22, 2008 at 20:43

    My problem here is that they are throwing money to the problem, but not doing anything to address the root of it. Parents should be held responsible for their underage children bad behaviour (when that behaviour rose in criminal behaviour). Sorry to say this, but measures should be done to create responsible parenthood. Many people in this world have children, but don´t care about them.

    Precisely today I saw in my office the case of a woman (of limited resources) that is taking care of his grandson, because the mother moved with her boyfriend to another city leaving the child behind. The boy is 4 years old and he was running around the office. I told him in my “mom voice” that I needed quiet time to speak with her grandmother; then the boy immediately stop running and took a seat. The grandmother said: “He never listens to anybody!” I told her: “He only need attention”. I gave the boy, for his good behaviour, stickers. He was happy. I gather that it was the first time that somebody praise him.

  56. 56 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 20:44

    @ Roberto

    I like and respect Bill Richardson for all his years of service. Do you really think an Obama-Richardson ticket would be a wining combination? Two people people of color might bring too much “change” for some Americans.

  57. 57 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 22, 2008 at 20:48

    @Nelsoni & Steve
    Me and my husband work full time. Our daughters are doing great at school. Good grades, good behaviour. I have met children of stay at home mom that have behaviour problems at school. I don´t think the problem here lies in being a working parent or a stay at home parent…the matter is NOT to be a parent when you are suppose to be one.

  58. 58 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:48

    @ Kathi ~ That true. Alot of Nursing mothers really don’t have so much time to sleep for the usual reasons. I think you may have already made up for those lost hours of sleep.

  59. 59 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 20:49

    @ Katharina

    Re. Crocs:

    That’s a good point. I have seen them in many hospital here too. I wonder why we still use them if they aren’t anti-static. It opens hospitals to huge liabilities and law suits.

  60. 60 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 20:50

    Any guess on who the VP will be or comments on who was chosen, since it is very likely Senator Obama will make the announcement this Saturday?

    Hell, I dunno. Maybe we should all just ignore Obama for the next two months and concentrate on McCain. That would restore the balance a bit after the obsessive coverage of Obama evident on the BBC and elsewhere. That would have been justified to an extent while he was involved in the exciting contest with Clinton and McCain had already won the nomination, so there was no story to follow on the Republican side. But now that the primaries are over, perhaps people will remember that there is also a Republican contestant here.

  61. 61 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 20:51

    @ Luz ma, you made a valid point there. I think on one of the TP’s or BP’s, we extensively discussed the issue of poor parenting as a possible reason for anti-social behavior.

  62. 62 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 20:54

    @ nelsoni

    Have you may not live as long if you do not allow your body to replenish during sleep and that all time you “saved” will be lost? There are also a lot of health disorders related to not enough sleep or insomnia. I have been trying to modify my insomnia.

  63. 63 roebert
    August 22, 2008 at 20:54

    Anthony, I don’t see the fun or good taste in any movies or other entertainments that seek to utterly vulgarize great religious teachers. Any one who studies their lives and teachings (even from an atheistic point of view, such as my own) would find little grounds for vilifying them or making them seem ridiculous or decadent.

    To me the strange thing is not that this kind of thing isn’t done to Mahomet. The reason for that is obvious. You’d be killed for doing it. What I find strange is that, actually, it’s ALWAYS Jesus Christ that gets the ‘treatment’; never the Buddha, never Krishna, Never Mani etc.

    It says something about western lack of respect for its spiritual heritage.

  64. 64 Venessa
    August 22, 2008 at 20:57

    Katherina & Nelsoni ~

    Yeah, I realized that 8 hours a day over 60 years equates to 20 years of my life. I too have been sleep deprived…plenty. I worked 12 hours shifts on nights when I was in college. After getting off work I would go to school until around 2pm and then have to be to work by 7pm. 4 hours was my standard number of hours to sleep for a couple years.

  65. 65 roebert
    August 22, 2008 at 21:00

    Bryan: My feeling is that Obama is history anyway, regrettably. The democrats made a big mistake fielding novelty-shop candidates for such an all-important election. They should have put out someone of at least the calibre of Al Gore, who at least looks like a traditional US president. It may have been touch and go for a while, but now, with what’s going on in Georgia and Poland, I definitely see the republicans winning again, and I weep.

  66. 66 Venessa
    August 22, 2008 at 21:00

    Robert ~

    I think you make a good point but it could also be that as westerners we have an ability to laugh at ourselves.

  67. 67 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 21:00

    roebert August 22, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    It says something about western lack of respect for its spiritual heritage.

    This is the disease that is eating away at the West.

  68. 68 Lauren
    August 22, 2008 at 21:00

    @ Luz ma, I agree with you about the lack of parenting- many kids do need attention as well as discipline. Instead of paying kids to behave, why not use the money to establish after school/extracurricular programs? They can provide a structured, safe environment for students to have fun and learn at the same time.

  69. 69 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 21:02

    @ Jess, since my early teenage years, I have being sleeping for four-five hours daily, with the occassional odd exception here and there. So I would say my body recognizes the time range as normal but I would not advise any one who sleeps for Eight hours to suddenly switch, that would be disastrous. I also came across this report that quite a number of world leaders don’t sleep much. I will try and fish out the links.

  70. 70 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 21:04

    Venessa August 22, 2008 at 9:00 pm,

    That’s a valid point, except that so often it’s mockery and laughing at others, not ourselves. The BBC is especially guilty here of pouring scorn on its own religious roots.

  71. 71 Shirley
    August 22, 2008 at 21:07

    Will, if you’re out there somewhere, could you fix the title (if needed)? The URL says blank page 22; but the header says Blank Page 21, as does the [title]Blank Page 21[/title] HTML tag.

    Hi, Jessica~ It’s great to have you on board! Don’t you worry a thing about that HTML stuff. The other mods will help you with anything you need.

  72. 72 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 21:10

    Thanks Shirley, but I’ll do it. I’d like to figure this out myself.

  73. 73 Dennis
    August 22, 2008 at 21:10


    I was moderator on BLANK PAGE on August 8,2008 weekend! Because i remember, i had to have Chloe to have a back-up moderators on call…Since i was leaving Syracuse, New York where i am attending Onondaga Community College, and i had to moved out of Residence Hall on that evening…..


  74. 74 roebert
    August 22, 2008 at 21:14

    Venessa, turning Jesus Christ into a hoodlum sicko is not laughing at ourselves. It is denigrating a tremendously beautiful and wise human being. In doing that, we are revealing ourselves as rather vile, actually.

  75. 75 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 21:18

    @ Shirley/Jess, modifying the Url, may re direct the blank page to another page all together. I suggest we should leave the Url as it is.

  76. 76 Venessa
    August 22, 2008 at 21:23

    Well I think the entire point of the movie is to be offensive.

  77. 77 Venessa
    August 22, 2008 at 21:25

    Hi Jessica ~

    I can help out moderating later tonight. I’ll only be around for another hour. I have volunteer duties for the Hood to Coast run. It’s tragic I can’t run anymore but at least I can go cheer my team on!

  78. 78 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 21:49

    Israel shuts down BBC in Hebron


    The IDF shut down BBC radio transmitters in Hebron on Wednesday, acting on orders of the Communications Ministry and citing interference with communications at Ben-Gurion International Airport.

    The IDF Spokesman said the transmitters were illegal, adding that the Communications Ministry had found them to be jeopardizing contact between Ben-Gurion’s control tower and passenger aircraft.

    …. the BBC was broadcasting on a wavelength allocated to it by the Palestinian Authority without prior coordination with the Communications Ministry. “We are now trying to solve the problem,” the official said.

    Does this mean the BBC’s highjacking by the Palestinians has now become complete and can we now expect the BBC to broadcast Palestinian propaganda undiluted by any objectivity whatsoever?

    Or am I being paranoid.

    (Just because I’m paranoid, doesn’t mean they’re not out to get me.)

  79. 79 Shirley
    August 22, 2008 at 21:50

    None of the 70+ applications to protest at the protest parks in China have been approved. Tom, the two little (I think) elderly ladies are being allowed to serve their labour/re-education sentcens at home. Doe sthat mean that they won’t be subjected to hard work or other odd conditions? Their apartment is so bare that there is probably no difference between it and a prison cell. Add to that the fact that their neighbours now have to spy on them. Let me know any thoughts or insights that you might have, please/thank you.

    By the way, what is the Chinese word for please? If I knew it, then I have forgot it.

    Pro-Tibet activists are claiming a lucky 8 victory, but other activists are still in detention.

  80. August 22, 2008 at 21:54

    @ The Olympics,

    Is Jamaica really winning The Olympics?

    Score it fair. For example:

    3 points for gold
    2 points for silver
    1 point for bronze

    Then divide the country’s total score by the population of the country.

    Scoring The Games in this way gives you these scores:

    Jamaica 8.992
    Russia 7.67
    U.S.A. 6.64
    Japan 3.845
    England 1.53
    China 1.49
    S. Korea 1.223

    Bravo Jamaica!!

  81. 81 Shirley
    August 22, 2008 at 21:56

    Hello Around the World

    How do you say greeting phrases such as “hello,” “my name is ___,” “please,” “thank you,” and “you’re welcome” in your language(s)?

    I will start with a language that is not actually mine.

    * hello: salam (Islamic greeting of peace borrowed from Arabic)
    * my name is ___: mera naam ___
    * please: meherbani
    * thank you: shukriya
    * you’re welcome: koi baat nahi (trans: no problem; lit: that talk no, don’t mention it)

    (Sorry, Jamily. It the most unique one on the WHYS board that I could think of.)

  82. 82 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 21:59

    @ Venessa, thanks! I’ll be back on in an hour or so…

    @ Shirley

    Did you see that China blocked iTunes for having a pro Tibet album.

    @ portlandmike

    Bolt has another gold medal. I saw he broke another record. This guy is a superhuman, or from the future as someone said in the whys blog last week.

  83. 83 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 22, 2008 at 22:02

    * hello: ¡Hola!
    * my name is ___: Mi nombres es ___
    * please: Por favor
    * thank you: Gracias
    * you’re welcome: De nada

  84. 84 Julie P
    August 22, 2008 at 22:07

    @Luz Ma,

    I can say, “I’m sorry I do not speak Spanish, I speak English.” How do you write that?

  85. 85 roebert
    August 22, 2008 at 22:12

    Shirley, you asked for it! Here’s the Zulu for:

    Hello…sawubona (to one person) sanibonani (to more than one)
    How are you?…uNjani na? niNjani na?
    my name is…igama lami lingu

    Let’s find sanity and live in peace in our world: Masizame sicabange kakuhle siphile futhi ngokuthula la ezwini lethu.

    To my mind, one of the most beautiful spoken languages on earth.

  86. 86 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 22:17

    @ Bryan. I think that the fact they were allocated a frequency does not mean they were publicising “palestinian propaganda” as you claimed. The reason they were shut down was because of interference with civil aviation navigation and not because of the content of their broadcasts. Unless there is something else you or the article is not saying, I must say it’s very much unlike you to jump into hasty conclusions about palestinian propaganda. I stand corrected.

  87. 87 Jonathan
    August 22, 2008 at 22:17


    Useful Chinese phrases in San Francisco would include: “Please stop pushing me!” Or, “coughing on me.” Or, “shouting in my ear.” The “Please” part is optional.

  88. 88 Shirley
    August 22, 2008 at 22:19

    Obama’s VP
    I hope that Obama picks Caroline Kennedy. It’s a long shot, so my other hope is Kathleen Sibelius (spelling?), the Demorratic Kansas governor.

    Paying Students
    Some schools have already tried to pay students for good marks on tests. The plan was not as successful as they needed, so they scrapped it. Grades dropped. Best not to begin such a plan in the first place. There are other rewards, especially the social kind where students are put up on a stage and receive a certificate. We do that all the time already, but associate such events with free food, and you might have a winner.

  89. 89 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 22:26

    roebert August 22, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    My feeling is that Obama is history anyway, regrettably.

    I’m not so sure that it is regrettable. Obama apparently has some very strange bedfellows indeed, apart from his racist preacher friend, and it is something that the BBC has been keeping extremely quiet about.

    Besides, the guy changes principles like a chameleon, depending on which audience he is addressing.

  90. 90 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 22, 2008 at 22:27

    “Lo siento, no hablo Español, hablo Inglés”

    Sorry, I haven´t sent you the e-mail with the info about Mérida and the Mayan Ruins. I have been busy… I´ll do it later, it is in my “to do list” 😉

  91. 91 Shirley
    August 22, 2008 at 22:30

    Nelson, by the time you’re 60, you will still have lost 10 years of your life to sleep. Assuming that you live to be 80, you will have lost 13 1/3 housr of sleep over your entire lifetime. I don’t see a big difference.

    You are absolutely right that someone should not try to change an established sleep length. I’ve been on eight hours of sleep since I was a child. When I tried to change it to four a night, I became constantly dizzy and mentally slow. I can do six hours at night, but then on the week-ends I will sleep ten hours a day; and my functionality is still compensated.

    BP URL
    Nelson, you are absolutely correct about the URL. Jess, kudos to you.

  92. 92 Amy
    August 22, 2008 at 22:31


    I’m here for another hour or so to help with moderating and I’ll be around most of the weekend too. Welcome to the jungle!

  93. 93 Amy
    August 22, 2008 at 22:34


    I know you are surviving on 4-5 hours of sleep at the moment. As you get older, that may change (I’m with you Kathi – kids destroy your sleeping patterns). But remember, most older people (read, senior citizens) end up not sleeping a lot either. Even though it is hard for my mom to stay up later, she does it because she knows her body will wake her up about about 6 hours of sleep and she doesn’t want to get up at 3 AM.

  94. 94 Shirley
    August 22, 2008 at 22:35

    The Wikipedia article on sleep has some interesting information. The US National Sleep Foundation maintains that 8 to 9 hours of sleep for adult humans is optimal and that sufficient sleep benefits alertness, memory and problem solving, and overall health, as well as reducing the risk of accidents. A 2003 University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine study demonstrated that cognitive performance declines with fewer than eight hours of sleep. The 2006 study “Correlates of long sleep duration” by Malhotra A Patel Sr, Gottlieb DJ, et al found that sleeping more than 7 to 8 hours per day has been consistently associated with increased mortality. Researchers from the University of Warwick and University College London have found that lack of sleep can more than double the risk of death from cardiovascular disease, but that too much sleep can also double the risk of death. See the chart in the same article that shows sleep needs by age. It is interesting to see how gradually the requisite hours drop off as a child ages. Even teens still need 9-10 hours.

  95. 95 Amy
    August 22, 2008 at 22:37


    Trust me – most Americans remember that John McCain is here. He is the one with the memory problem. He can’t remember the difference between Shi’s and Sunni, where he stands on the issue of reinstating the draft and oh yeah, how many houses he owns.

    And on the topic of you being paranoid – they are out to get you so don’t change 🙂

  96. 96 Amy
    August 22, 2008 at 22:46


    “I’m not so sure that it is regrettable. Sen. Obama apparently has some very strange bedfellows indeed, apart from his racist preacher friend, and it is something that the BBC has been keeping extremely quiet about.”

    Do you really want to go there? How many of Sen. McCain’s advisors are also registered lobbyists? His prime economic advisor is former Sen. Phil Gramm who is the one who was the architect of our current sub-prime mortgage problem along with many others. What about his campaign’s actively seeking the endorsements of conservative evangelical leaders, getting said endorsements and then needed to reject them because they didn’t do a little homework about those pastors. If Tony Rezko is brought up, then the Keating 5 is fair ground too.

    Sen. McCain used to be considered a maverick. He’s not anymore. He is just another politician who has been in Washington too long. Flip flopper can be applied to him more than it can be to Sen. Obama.

  97. 97 Shirley
    August 22, 2008 at 22:50

    Hello Around the World
    ¿Luz, no se dice «me llamo ___» en vez de «mi nombre es ___»?

    The Urdu how are you:
    You greet a woman formally by asking “Aap kesi hay?”
    You greet a woman informally by asking “Tum kesi ho?”
    You greet a man formally by asking “Aap kesay hay?”
    You greet a man informally by asking “Tum kesay ho?”

    I might need corrections from Jamily on this, though.

  98. 98 roebert
    August 22, 2008 at 22:51

    Bryan, I agree that Obama is just too unpredictable. The regrettable part is that the Democrats failed to field an appropriate candidate. McCain, on the other hand, is just too awfully predictable. I dub him Dubya 2.

    Both candidates are sad cases, wouldn’t you say? compared to the sort of world leader that is needed right now; either a Reagan or a Clinton? Even if it is only a question of style…

  99. 99 Jamily5
    August 22, 2008 at 22:55

    Hi Shirley,

    I can speak a bit of French, but can not write it, so that is useless.
    Shirley, you took mine!!!!
    But, I will also add:
    “your Welcome,”
    “mujhay khushi hay.”
    It’s literal meaning is:
    “my pleasure,”
    I believe.
    Anyone from Pakistan or India want to chime in?
    And, I did know some Kiswahili, but it was lost with my other computer.
    I just remember:
    “jambo,”/”Jumbo”(for Tanzanians, which is actually Swahili, from what I am told) — “hello
    “asansana,” — “thank you very much.”
    Where are you Abdi???

    Oh, wait!
    In Shona, (official language of zimbabwe) I know that
    “Canjani,” is “hello,”\
    “kutenda,” is “thank you.”
    I can’t remember the rest in that language either.
    But, I do remember that “shamwari,” is “friend.”
    and “Mwari akuropafadze,” is “God bless you.”
    That’s about it!
    Gee, that would not get me anywhere if I ever traveled!
    But, I certainly would be a gracious guest.(smile)

  100. 100 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 22:57

    nelsoni August 22, 2008 at 10:17 pm,

    Yes, I did read the article, and the part about the interference. I was just trying out a bit of humour there with the Palestinian propaganda comment. But as they say, Many a true word is said in jest. The BBC has been pumping out Palestinian propaganda for years now, though not exclusively. Alan Johnston, “friend of the Palestinian people” was a prime example of this during his three year stint with the BBC in Gaza. A few months back I posted a comment to that effect on this very blog:


    It was on this debate:


    Now perhaps someone can think of a reason, other than propaganda, why Johnston would ignore the long and rich history of the Jews of Gaza and portray them only as modern invaders in the form of the Israeli army.

    I can’t.

  101. 101 Jamily5
    August 22, 2008 at 23:00

    Thanks Roebert,
    I agree with your comments about the movie.
    And, I would offended if this kind of portrayl was placed on the Dali Lama or Mohammed or any spiritual leader that espoused virtuous qualities.
    I find that my brand of humor a rarity, these days.

  102. 102 imran
    August 22, 2008 at 23:03

    Hi shirley, I am an urdu speaker. I am originally from pakistan. I am really impressed that you are trying to learn one of the most versatile but barely talked about language. Unfortunately, people from Pakistan haven’t put much effort in promoting it either. Many professionally recorded courses are produced for other languages, but I have been unable to locate one in urdu that I could recommend those who are passionate about learning it.

  103. 103 Jonathan
    August 22, 2008 at 23:03

    @Bryan, Nice to see you again. I trust you’re feeling better.

    I like your suggestion that we should stop talking about Obama and concentrate on Sen. McCain. There’s so much we hardly hear about. Going way back to the saving-and-loan scandal of some years ago, before his incongruous rebirth as a “reformer.” Or his reversals and dizzying spins on so many issues that he now confronts each speech with tangible suspicion, as a hostile stranger staring up from the page, uncetain of what he’s saying, or why. “I’m not questionin Obama’s patriotistm, I’m just saying he would sell out the country to get elected.” (Straight Talk Express?) Reinstituting the draft, staying 100 years in Iraq, being against theocratic wackos until he was for them. Looking down from a famous bloodline and a net worth of around $100,000,000 to call Sen. Obama “elitist,” because that word worked so well for Hillary among the all-important low-prole demographic. Taken literally, it would be absurd, but it makes sinister sense as a nasty little code word for “black man who talks well, dresses well, and thinks he’s better than you good folks.” Oh, he’s a one-man band.

    You know who wouldn’t like your idea though? Sen. McCain. He has been well advised to make the campaign about Obama, or rather a caricature of Obama. His talking points, his TV spots, all about Obama. And really, what choice does the poor man have? So you’re doing your guy no favors in trying to turn the spotlight on him.That’s the last place he wants it.

  104. 104 roebert
    August 22, 2008 at 23:05

    One reason: The Jews of Gaza did not partition the territory and give the rump to the Palestinians.

  105. 105 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 23:12

    roebert August 22, 2008 at 10:51 pm,

    I see very few leaders indeed that I regard as true leaders. And that’s worldwide, not just in the USA. I see followers, with pretensions to leadership, swayed by the slightest breeze of public opinion. And I see corrupt, greedy, egoistic, power-hungry little people, feathering their own nests. And that’s before we even start looking at the dictatorships.

    But there are a few principled and courageous leaders out there. Germany’s Angela Merkel is one. I noted her visit to Yad Vashem, the Jerusalem Holocaust Museum, and her genuine remorse over the Holocaust. I also noticed that she boycotted the Olympics. Lady has what it takes.

  106. 106 imran
    August 22, 2008 at 23:14

    I can always assist someone keen on learning my native language, but having a good course to follow would expedite the process. It would be something people could consult in their free time. Then, it would be easier for me to fine tune the skills people would acquire using that material.

  107. 107 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 23:16

    I’m back. Thanks for those who helped moderate.

  108. 108 Roberto
    August 22, 2008 at 23:21

    McCain, on the other hand, is just too awfully predictable. I dub him Dubya 2.

    ——— I’d say your comparison is an obscenity to McCain but typical of the tactics Rove used on McCain in 2000 when he “co-joined” him to an ethereal black woman in the South Carolina primaries who allegedly bore his adopted child out of wedlock.

    Nice move Herr Karl, it won themthe election, but he’ll grow to regret what happened when it’s all said and done.

    Don’t expect much from the American voters after 16 yrs of the worst presidential selections in history, but a lucky accident has occurred. Of course even Barney the Dino would be an improvement at this point.

  109. 109 Jamily5
    August 22, 2008 at 23:22

    Paying money never works.
    I know many parents (none of them stereotypical wwelfare parents, either) who give their children money to do chores, and they do buy them “things” to keep them out of trouble. The money gets old after a while and the child finds other ways to get the money, if they want it.
    How many times have you heard parents or grandparents promise a “dollar for every A.”
    It does not work.

    But, I wanted to bring up another issue.
    It seems that whenever
    bad parenting is brought up,
    any immediately equate bad parents to welfare moms.
    And, welfare is always equated with laziness.
    It is too bad that we don’t have a good representative of the entire population.
    And, I wonder how many of these “whiners about welfare recipients,” actually know people who are on welfare personally
    Well, in any case, it certainly does give a convenient scapegoat.
    Maybe someone who has a much more brilliant mind can figure out how we can blame these welfare parents for the Georgia/Russia conflict.

  110. 110 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 23:24

    @ Bryan. Lets talk about McCAIN. In a recent media interview, he was asked how many houses he had, his response was ” my staff will get back to you.” whether he actually knew and did not want to say or He really had no idea, we would never really know.

  111. 111 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 23:25

    Amy August 22, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    Well, thanks for that. I’ve always known they were out to get me. I just needed confirmation.

    Now before Obama becomes pres of the US of A, he might like to do an accurate count of how many states he’ll be the pres of. Since he’s looking for a VP, I think I’ll apply for the job to help him count them.

    I’d also advise him not to consort with convicted felons when buying houses and to do something about the extremely unAmerican comments flooding his website. I wont point out that he should have been far quicker in dissociating himself with his racist preacher friend of twenty years or advise his wife to be proud of what America was before Obama because the damage has already been done there.

  112. 112 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 23:32

    nelsoni August 22, 2008 at 11:24 pm,

    I don’t wanna talk about McCain. I want the BBC to talk about McCain, rather than wall to wall Obama, so people can at least get the impression that the BBC is even-handed in its political reporting.

    So he doesn’t know how many houses he owns? Good for him, I’d rather he knew how many states there are in the US.

  113. 113 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 23:33

    @ Amy, I will keep your points about sleep in mind. @ Shirley, I really don’t know how I do it any way, I am an exception to portions of that wikipedia article regarding sleep.

  114. 114 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 22, 2008 at 23:34

    Both phrases are used to state your name.

    The literal translation of “my name is ____” is “mi nombre es:______”

  115. 115 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 23:35

    @ Bryan

    I don’t think we can hold Obama accountable for what his preacher friend said, just as McCain is not responsible for the what his racist friends say either. Plus, no politician is immune from the chameleon effect. Look at what McCain is doing right now to court Hispanics.

    I think any politicians will say what the people he/she is addressing what to hear to get themselves elected otherwise known as tailoring your message. I don’t think this makes them dishonest, it make them politicians. The lying or and purposefully misleading us is far worst to me.

  116. 116 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 23:38

    Proposed WHYS Congress . I want to safely assume that the reason we have not heard anything about it again is because our dear editor Mark is still in Beijing. Thankfully, the Olympics end this sunday so we should have him back next week. And I am also curious as to why his daily updates suddenly stopped, the last was “Boys with toys” posted last saturday.

  117. 117 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 23:38

    Jonathan August 22, 2008 at 11:03 pm

    I trust you’re feeling better.

    Better than what?

    I also don’t recall saying McCain was “My man.”

    Obama is younger and better looking. And in the image-conscious US, that alone could swing him the vote.

  118. 118 jessnyc
    August 22, 2008 at 23:40

    A few stores hit the wire to re the media’s Obamamaina. Time magazine just put Obama on the cover again for the 7th time compared to McCain’s two or three times. But with the polls showing McCain closing in on Obama, all the media hasn’t been good media for Obama’s numbers. Do you agree?

  119. 119 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 23:52

    jessnyc August 22, 2008 at 11:35 pm,

    Well, I dunno. A religious man is in an extremely close and intimate relationship with his preacher, especially if he is also his friend. It’s quite a stretch to assume that he could have sat through twenty years of this character’s sermons while disagreeing with their racist content.

    But OK, let’s see Obama get in. Maybe he’ll do something about the illegal Mexican invasion. Looks like McCain is set on facilitating it.

  120. 120 nelsoni
    August 22, 2008 at 23:53

    @ Moderators, I am off. It’s almost mid night. I will be back at 0400 GMT or there about. @ Jess, should you need help, just request for it, a moderator in another time zone will gladly help out.

  121. 121 Amy
    August 22, 2008 at 23:53


    Even though it seems that we disagree on a lot of things, if “they” get you – I’ll plan a rescue mission 🙂

  122. 122 Julie P
    August 22, 2008 at 23:55


    About WHYS Congress, we’ll have it, be patient. As for Mark, I am quite confident that once he returns to where he can freely we are going to get all of the dirt about it is what like in Beijing.

  123. 123 Bryan
    August 22, 2008 at 23:57

    Amy August 22, 2008 at 11:53 pm,

    Thanks Amy, that’s good of you. In appreciation I’ll subject myself without complaint to endless WHYS chat.

  124. 124 Jonathan
    August 22, 2008 at 23:59


    Oh good, I see you’ve wisely shifted focus away from McCain already. I hear you grumbling some vague, dark mysterioso muddle about bedfellows, shifting principles, and of course the conspiracy of silence by the media. Won’t you step up and share it with the class please? Come on, don’t be shy.

    What exactly are the “principles” that Obama “changes like a chameleon?” By the way, hmm, interesting animal to choose for that analogy, since chameleons don’t have principles. What are they known for,.um, oh yes: COLOR. Huh. Guess he can’t change that, though, can he. Big guffaw!

    Seriously, though, what with the American media being complicit along with the silent BBC, we need to hear it. The world needs you. Rip the covers from this story. You’re our last best hope. While there’s still time, before the BBC commando tem swoops down on you, tell us what you’re growling about.

  125. 125 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 00:02

    Thanks Nelsoni for your help! Talk to you in a few hours.

  126. 126 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 00:08

    ‘Devil’ child killer has been made eligible for the death penalty.


  127. 127 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 00:11

    Guess who is on the cover of The Economist just released today. Yup, Obama.

  128. 128 Bryan
    August 23, 2008 at 00:13

    Jonathan August 22, 2008 at 11:59 pm,

    That’s all very colourful and I’m sure you are impressed with your own brilliance but I respond to genuine debate, not sarcasm and insult, as you should know by now. So if you can bear to shelve all that crap, I’ll debate the issues. But not now, gotta go.

  129. 129 Jonathan
    August 23, 2008 at 00:33


    Ooh, I just saw one of those shifting principles! Not Obama’s though.

    That moderate McCain who concerns you was last year’s model. Guess you didn’t get the word. The new, improved McCain of the moment is properly and noisily rabid about the urgency of expelling 20 million Americans—workers, churchgoers, taxpayers, holders of family values, homeowners, small business owners, landscapers, the lot–as the Party poobahs and the great unwashed demand. So don’t you worry ’bout them turribel Messixicans!

    Shifts principles pretty nimbly for an older guy. Sly little fella. I mean, spry. Can’t turn your back on him for a minute. “Your man,” because you just demanded that the media devote their coverage to McCain entirely, and Obama not at all, for the next two months. Doncha remember? Was I wrong in assuming you thought this would somehow help him?

  130. 130 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 00:40

    For those of you complaining that BBC doesn’t cover McCain enough, looks like they heard you: McCain cheers gloomy Republicans. However, it shows a picture of Obama. LOL, Robert, was it you who said the better looking person gets more votes in American? It looks like it gets more attention in the UK, too.

    Who said complaining doesn’t get you anywhere. 🙂

  131. 131 Anthony
    August 23, 2008 at 01:05

    Anyone see the “Twin Tower” version of “Space Invaders”. Wow, people are making quite a fuss. What do you think??? Here’s a link with a picture.


    -Anthony, LA, CA

  132. 132 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 01:28

    Hello Around the World
    Imran, assalam-o-alaikum (aap muslim hain, ji?)
    I have also not found any recorded educational material for learning Urdu. However, there is an excellent little green book that works very well for the beginner. It walks a person through grammar, reading and writing, and vocabulary in progressive steps. It is usually sold with the accidental omission of a couple of pages of the glossary at the end. And would you believe but that I have forgot the name of that book. But it is my favourite.

    Urdu is a beautiful language, especialy for qasidas, latmiyas (if you are a Shia Muslim like me, that is), naats, and nohas. For the uninitiated, those are all recited poetry.

    Zerda! Jamily, the stuff that I was thinking about is zerda, and if I don’t write it down for you here, I will forget it by the time that I write you an email. Whoever gets to the recipe site first should copy it down. Imran, if you know an old family recipe that beats whatever might be online, please let us know.

    By the way, are Jamily and I going to beat everyone else in writing down the French greetings? And Akbar, where are you with our Farsi? Abdi, Swahili? Nelson, might you know some Hawsa or Yorba? Does anyone know any English languages? Bob, your wife is Welsh. She can help add to our repository.

  133. 133 imran
    August 23, 2008 at 01:42

    walaikum-assalam Shirley!han jee main musalman hoon. (yes, I am muslim.) Since, this book that you are referring to is probably only available in print, I won’t be able to access it. Being blind, I totally rely on Braille or my talking computer. Therefore, I was more inclined on finding an audio course. Two years ago, I found a rather pathetic course aimed at those who want to learn English. So there were a handful of urdu phrases along with their english translation. Each phrase would be proceeded by its english equivalent.

    as for the recipies, I know next to nothing about cooking and therefore, can’t give you any suggestions. But I do have a few books that deal specifically with pakistani-indian cooking. I don’t remember their names at present, but I will list them in my next post.

  134. 134 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 01:43

    @ Anthony

    I think it’s very distasteful and agree he’s a “sleazy entrepreneur” trying to capitalize on the PR for the game and make money. I’m a New Yorker, so I’m probably (maybe!) less objective than others. 😦 It’s never a good idea to ask the people who had loved ones die in the WTC as the article did, because you’re going to get a lot of people very angry. it was very tacky of the author.

  135. 135 imran
    August 23, 2008 at 01:48

    well, I do know how to greet people in multiple languages. I myself fluently speak four languages: urdu, punjabi (my provincial language), hindi and english. I am currently working on french and hope to proceed with arabic soon in order to better understand Quran.
    in punjabi, “how are you” would be “kee haal ay?”, “what is your name” “tawada ke naa ay?” “where are you from?” “tusi kithon day ao?”

  136. 136 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 01:52


    1)COMPLAINING: I learn that complaining to the highest level, will get “you” change fast….

    Example: during the summer, when i was attending OCC, i was denied a financial aid loan from the United States government for the Fall Semester! I had to formalized a complaint to the Student Services Interim Assoc. Vice Pres., Stephanie Reynolds…And from now on forth, i will have a assistant director of Financial Aid…


  137. 137 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 01:55

    About WHYS congress:

    The problem is: We need to send our Fearless leader, Ros Atkins are idea….


  138. 138 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 02:06

    @ imran

    Wow, your blind and blogging? I’m very impressed, sometimes the idea of hard things makes people want to give up. I know when I have simple computer problems, I immidately call my tech people and claim my computer is dying or crashing–whichever one gets the tech people to my computer faster.

    You inspired me, I want to be quad-lingual, too. I registered for another another language course.

  139. 139 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 02:13

    @ Imran:

    You are inspiration to everyone!

    @ Etiquette following 9/11/2001:
    It is not a bright idea to bring up the subject with some people…..

    @ BBC and its coverage of John McCain:
    BBC provides coverage when there is news of him!
    Note: I don’t work for the BBC but they provide coverage to the Presidential Candidates!


  140. 140 imran
    August 23, 2008 at 02:19

    At jessnyc,
    Although I can understand your reasons for being surprised at my ability to effectively use a computer, my blindness does not deter me from doing anything imaginable provided I have the will to do it. Besides, I am studying to be a software engineer, so blogging is like a piece of cake to me. I don’t mean to sound overconfident, but I couldn’t think of a better example to prove my point.

  141. 141 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 02:19

    Excellent point Dennis! The BBC can’t cover something if there’s nothing.

  142. 142 imran
    August 23, 2008 at 02:22

    Thanks dennis,
    Very often people underrate those who are blind or have any other disability. I hope my participation helps eliminate

  143. 143 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 02:22

    Besides it’s always the case that the when people’s political candidate is not the front runner, we always claim the other one is getting more media attention.

  144. 144 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 02:24

    Twin Towers Video Game: Anthony, I don’t think that I want to see. Why would anyone ever want to make a video game on something that that?? How hurtful!

  145. 145 imran
    August 23, 2008 at 02:25

    Thanks dennis,
    Very often people underrate those who are blind or have any other disability. I hope my participation helps eliminate this wrong perception that blind people are in some way less capable of doing things that ablebodied people can.
    my appologies for prematurely submitting my comment earlier as I accidentally hit the submit button.

  146. 146 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 02:32

    @ Imran

    I did not mean to sound surprised, because I do not underestimate people with disabilities. It was meant to be a compliment, some things are easier for people and we taken them for granted. So I apologize for my awkward word phrasing in my previous post.

  147. 147 imran
    August 23, 2008 at 02:36

    At jessnyc,
    No offense taken. Your attitude towards the disabled population is something that everybody should adopt.

  148. 148 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 02:38

    Thanks Jessica!

    @ Imran:
    we welcome everyone to the world have your say blogs! 🙂


  149. 149 graceunderfire
    August 23, 2008 at 02:50

    @ Steve
    No. Truth be told, a awfully lot of parenting is non-verbal. If you knew to do your homework, your parents did an excellent job. They informed you of what was necessary and proper without you even knowing. You should go give then a hug or something. Oh, and that other thing; paying students to behave. that’s just a whole lot of bad news. Don’t matter if it initially works…bribery usually does. You just end up with a kid who knows how to work the system, not contribute to its improvement.
    @ Jessica
    Rubber shoes are just way down on my list of class accessories.

  150. 150 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 02:56

    HTML & Internet
    Imran bhai, assalamo alaykum
    Do you know very much about frames in HTML? I know hat they are terribly unpopular, but I want to learn how to use them before preogressing to other things.

    Hello Around the World
    Imran, can you also give us the list in Hindi? How does one say hello, my name is Layla, please, thank you, and you’re welcome in Hindi?

  151. 151 imran
    August 23, 2008 at 03:12

    Walaikum-assalam shirley,
    Sorry, I didn’t quite get your question about frames in HTML? Are you attempting to add frames to your web page? Are you attempting to write the HTMl code manually or are using an application such as front page to do the job?
    as for some hindi phrases, they are as follows:
    hello =namastay/namaskaar. my name is imran =mayra naam imran hai. (same as urdu.) please =kripaya. thank you =dhanaywaad.

  152. 152 imran
    August 23, 2008 at 03:21

    salam shirley,
    The following link has excelent examples of the usage of frames. This site has some well written HTML tutorials. You can use it as a reference site. For more indepth study of HTML, I can recommend you some books if interested. Anyway, the link is:
    Goodluck with learning the HTML.

  153. 153 Jamily5
    August 23, 2008 at 03:22

    I always just said:
    “Tum kaysay ho?”
    “Tum Kaysi ho?”
    I don’t know why this is, but my friends and I always greet like that.
    Oh, loosely translated:
    “How are you?”

  154. 154 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 03:30

    HTML & Internet
    Imran, I have an offline page that I wrote usng frames. The page has three sections: a thin top part that displays the name of the page, a tall, narrow frame to the side that acts as a sidebar with table of contents, and then a main window where pages open when one clicks a link in the table of contents. Now I want one of the frame sources to be an HTML document that itself also uses frames. I want to try it out by myself before I get any help, though. The reason that I wanted to embed the frames like that is because I wanted to click a link on the sidebar frame and have that link open using the space occupied by both the sidebar frame and the main window frame.

    Now that I have most likely confused you even more, I am going to try to write some of that code.

  155. 155 Amy
    August 23, 2008 at 03:44


    You are actually our second “known” blind member – jamily5 is also blind (I hope she doesn’t mind me sharing that fact!). I think by joining our family, you will help to dispel the stereotype that blind people can’t use a computer. Welcome!

    Amy in Beaverton, Oregon

  156. 156 Amy
    August 23, 2008 at 03:48


    I am taxing my brain but if memory serves my correctly, in Russian (and the spelling is phonetic):

    hello – zastrutia
    how are you – kak de la
    my name is – menya zavot ______
    please – pazhalsta
    thank you – spaceba

    I am trying to think of other key phrases. If I do, I’ll let you know.

  157. 157 Amy
    August 23, 2008 at 03:55


    My daughters love their crocs (one has an a knock off pair). I really don’t see the appeal. We got a hand me down pair so I then had to get the other one a pair (hence the knock off – I’m cheap and won’t pay for the real thing).

  158. 158 Jamily5
    August 23, 2008 at 03:57

    Hi Amy,
    Actually, if the truth be told, Imran got me interested in this site.
    Yes, we know each other.
    (smile blush — wave at Imran).
    But, not all blind people know each other.(smile)
    I say this because everywhere I go, people will ask me is I know this or that blind person.
    They just assume that we all blind people know each other.
    Shirley, Imran’s my software expert.
    Not “mine.” but he sure helps lots.

  159. 159 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 04:02

    @ Amy, hi. Your kinds and all kids, in my opinion, are exempt from criticism for wearing crocs. You’re suppose to wear fun things when your a kid. Then look back with humiliation and wonder how your parents ever let you out of the house that way.

    Remember, bangs?

  160. 160 Jamily5
    August 23, 2008 at 04:04

    Okay, I write too fast and must check over my posts.
    Thnk you in Swahili:
    “Asante Sana,”
    I find that my brand of humor is quite rare these days.

  161. 161 Bob in Queensland
    August 23, 2008 at 04:25

    G’day all!

    ….and I’m around on a sunny Saturday afternoon the other side of the date line from you all so can pinch hit in an emergency.

  162. 162 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 04:26

    Thanks for your feedback Amy. Good night.

    @Bob, hi. I’m sending you an email, please check it when when you have a minute.

  163. 163 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 04:36

    Hairstyles & Fashion
    Jess, are bangs out of style?

    Conversational Pet Peeves
    Jamily, I get the same. I must know every Muslim around, if I am talking with non-Muslims. Or I must know all converts to Islam, if I am talking to another Muslim.

    Thank you for bringing Imran to the site. Imran, thank you for coming over. So now the Musim count here is five? I think that out atheist WHYSayers still outnumber religious WHYSayers, though. At the same time, we religious WHYSayers can get rather mouthy. It all balances out in the end, yes?

  164. 164 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 04:40

    Bob, you are so lucky that it’s already Saturday for you. CSI: Miami week-ends isn’t for another 24 hours for me.

  165. 165 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 04:43


    The spiky-mountain-looking-ones that stick out 3-5 inches above your head are! Remember, those?

  166. 166 Amy
    August 23, 2008 at 04:44


    I thought the same thing about bangs…… I guess I am out of fashion since I still have bangs (with my high forehead, I need them!). But I will NEVER have a “shag” hairstyle again. Or wear plaid pants.

  167. 167 Amy
    August 23, 2008 at 04:45


    Oh, those bangs. I am sure that there are pictures of me somewhere from high school with that type…..

  168. 168 Bob in Queensland
    August 23, 2008 at 05:01

    @ Jessica

    Reply (actually replies plural) sent to your email!

    Re: hairstyles

    I think you’re all being “hairist” since most of my “bangs” now reside in shower drains all over the world! Just remember, the deity only made a few perfect heads…he had to disguise the rest with hair!

  169. 169 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 05:03

    Has anyone read Brazil hands ‘drug baron’ to US from the BBC’s web page?

    It seems that when one drug lord is “taken out”, there’s another one waiting to take his place. How effective is the war on drugs?

    @Bob, thanks for the help with my Q. Can I ask you to help moderate while I get some zzz, in an hour or so?

  170. 170 Bob in Queensland
    August 23, 2008 at 05:16

    @ Jess

    No problem–I should be around for the next while (and have been let off the Saturday shop this week!)

  171. 171 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 05:29

    War on Drugs
    Jess, the war on drugs is about as effective as the war on terror. Pop one pimple, and another comes along to take its place.

    Hairstyles & Fashion
    I don’t understand why leggings are coming back. It’s not like they look good. And yes, I am so glad to be rid of that ratted just-woke-up look. Disgusting. I didn’t even like it when it was the in thing.

    HTML & Internet
    I did it!! Clicked a TOC link in the sidebar, and it opened in the bottom half, taking over two out of the three frames! Bob, this stuff is fun. You should check it out some time. Now, if I couold convince a link in the very top to take over all three frames…

  172. 172 Amy
    August 23, 2008 at 05:37

    Good night everyone. See you on the other side!! Jessica, get some sleep!

  173. 173 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 05:39

    @ Shirley

    Thanks the visual imagine.
    So what’s the alternative to the current drug situation? Is there a solution?

  174. 174 Bob in Queensland
    August 23, 2008 at 05:39

    Re: War on Drugs

    So long as there’s a demand…and there’ll always be a demand…prohibition is always ineffectual. All it does is create profit opportunities for the “drug barons”.

  175. 175 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 23, 2008 at 05:42


    “Just remember, the deity only made a few perfect heads…he had to disguise the rest with hair!”

    LOL… that was a great response!

    Do you remember the horrible hairstyles of the eighties?? :S
    I was in elementary school and used lots of hairspray and big bows on a daily basis…yuck!

  176. 176 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 05:44

    *AND* I fixed the uppermost header section so that a clicked link there will take over the whole page! I totally rock! (Am I the only HTML nerd on board?)

  177. 177 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 23, 2008 at 05:48

    Good night everyone! I would not be able to participate tomorrow (Saturday for me). I´ll be away for my computer all day… Happy blogging 😉

  178. 178 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 05:53

    Vandals on probation and banned from the National Park System for a year. Evidently they took it upon themselves to go around the NPS to correct signs with misspelled words and grammatical errors as they offended the vandals.


  179. 179 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 05:53

    Good night Luz MA

  180. 180 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 06:00


    Bacack Obama has chosen Sen, Joe Biden as his vice presidential running mate according to CNN.

  181. 181 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 06:04

    Whatk? Not possible, Obama has not sent out an email or text message announcing it. If it is Biden, it must have been a leak

  182. 182 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 06:09


    It’s the header on the CNN website and I got a breaking news e-mail from CNN just minutes ago. Not for a second did I believe that I would be one of the first to get an e-mail from the Obama campaign to get an e-mail announcing his choice as running mate, the press is quite obsessed about the VP selection.

  183. 183 Jamily5
    August 23, 2008 at 06:12

    fashion and hairstyles:
    OH, I hate hairspray to this day!
    It just does not feel good!
    But, neither does polyester!
    Jellies were the worst shoes.
    They felt … … cheap and they were not good for walking lots.
    I must admit, though,
    I did enjoy the leggings fad.
    Hey, they were comfortable!
    Stirup pants… … and those parachute pants, now that’s another story.
    But, no one tried sneaking up behind me wearing those parachute pants.

  184. 184 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 06:15

    War on Drugs
    It seems to me that the current style of the war on drugs is top down. Perhaps we need a bit more grassroots kind of activity. I wonder if the breakdown of the family isn’t related to this, after all. How easy is it for a woman to get pregnant? The only OTC protection tht seems to be very accessible is something that logistically requires the man’s consent. The pill is not sold on the store shelf. If it were sold on the store shelf, how many of us think that it would actually be affordable? And we seem to have got this notion in our heads that anything younger than 25 or 30 years of age is too young to be getting married. Stuff and nonsense. I think that the problem is that we do not support married people in the way that we should. We expect two people to run themselves thin working two jobs so that they can pay the mortgage/rent and utilities, afford groceries, gas, and child care, and on top of it all save aside for their futures. Isn’t the splitting of the extended family into nuclear cells just a lovely thing? (not!) What if people knew that they could make ends meet if they got married young? What if that became a socially accepted norm? Wouldn’t that reduce the incidence of single parenthood? And what if we established a living wage that supported the basic necessities of life? Wouldn’t that free up the young couple to actually establish a relationship with each other that would found the basis of a long-term marriage and a stable family that could raise thriving, happy, sucessful children?

    And wouldn’t it make sense that when you work so hard that you hardly have time lefot over for yourself, not to mention your spouse and possibly children, and yet you still barely make ends meet, that you would feel just a tad bit hopeless? And isn’t it that same hopelessness that renders young souls as fertile breeding grounds for the propaganda of gangs and drug pushers? If you saw your family and everyone around you failing while yet struggling so hard, wou;dn’t you feel just a little bit without hope?

    We do so many stupid things in this country that discourage healthy families and promote what I consider to be a culture of death.

  185. 185 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 06:21

    Hairstyle & Fashion
    Now I do like parachute pants, especially when they have lots of pockets.

    Don’t they make sports pants with that noisy material, too?

  186. 186 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 06:22

    @Julie P

    Accorrding to Obama cap mgr, only 6-7 top people in his camp knew who the choice was going to be so it was less likely to be leaked. I’m so disappointed, but thiswas the pridictable choice. We knew he would pick someone who hard a strong foreign policy background. So selecting chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is hardly a stretch of imagination.

    @ Jamily5

    I wore the parachute pants AKA MC Hammer pants…. and I thought I was soooo cool. LOL

  187. 187 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 06:25


    I was invited to a dinner party in Atlanta the summer before the primaries started with Obama as the guest of honor. He had Biden in tow. As I remember those two were enamored with one another. I am not in the least bit surprised it’s Biden.

  188. 188 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 06:28

    @80’s clothes,

    My personal favorite to hate were teddies. Confining, uncomfortable, and a bad place to put snaps.

  189. 189 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 06:32

    Secret Service has been dispatched to Biden’s home. This makes it official.

  190. 190 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 06:37

    @ Bob

    The shame of being a hairist might allow me to show my head, urmmm mean face at whys for the rest of the day. I’m going to bed to think of what I said By the way I have sent an email to Al Gore about your hair pollution. ;P

    Will you take care of moderating funny man? Thanks. I’ll wait for your confirmation before I go.

  191. 191 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 06:39

    @ Julie P.

    I had hoped 😦 that’s why I get for believing a politician.

  192. 192 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 06:41


    There are too many people involved. I was expecting a leak. People seem to have a huge problem with keeping secrets, especially something this huge.

  193. 193 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 06:48


    I’m not going to sweat the small stuff. It happened. Although I would have preferred a personal phone call. Alas, it is was it is.

  194. 194 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 06:48

    @ Julie P

    Yup, you’re right… so much for bringing change. 😀

  195. 195 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 06:50

    Obama’s VP
    Jess, are you getting all of this from CNN? Including the bit about Secret Service?

  196. 196 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 06:54


    It’s on the FOX website too.

  197. 197 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 06:54

    @ Shirley
    No, different sources, the Guardian, ABC, WSJ, AP, LA times, seems like the whole world is running with the same story.

  198. 198 Bob in Queensland
    August 23, 2008 at 07:02

    Hi Jess….yup I’m here and happy to help out while you’re snoozing.

    Sleep well!

  199. 199 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 07:05

    ***********Attention Moderators********

    If you can help, please do. It’s 2 am EST and I’m going to bed. I’ll be back in the morning.

    Goodnight Everyone.

    Thoughts on Biden as the running mate? Good Choice? Look forward to reading your comments in a few h

  200. 200 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 07:07

    There you are Bob… thanks.

  201. 201 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 07:53

    Bob (and whoever else is still alive out there),
    I cannot believe the leak. I mean, I should have expected it. But I thought that just for once, sealed lips would be sealed. It would have been so much more fun to have found out from Obama himself.

    And for crying out loud, why not Sibelius? Actually, anyone could ramble on, and I could read and digest it all for the next four years. And maybe reply after four years.

    I am still hyped about figuring out frames, bases, embedding, and targets.

  202. 202 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 08:06

    Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr. (born November 20, 1942) is the senior United States Senator from Delaware and the presumptive Democratic Party candidate for Vice President, running alongside presumptive nominee Senator Barack Obama. [1]
    [1] BarackObama.com (2008). Barack Obama campaign site announcing his selection. Retrieved 23 August, 2008.

    Well, then. I guess it was official? But what about the buzzing cell phones? No-one got the call?

  203. 203 Bryan
    August 23, 2008 at 08:24

    My comment seemed to take a dive down the memory hole and vanish so here it is again:

    jessnyc August 23, 2008 at 12:40 am

    For those of you complaining that BBC doesn’t cover McCain enough, looks like they heard you: McCain cheers gloomy Republicans. However, it shows a picture of Obama. LOL, Robert, was it you who said the better looking person gets more votes in American?

    Nope, ’twas I what said that.

    Yeah, I saw the article. I get ‘Page not Found’ when I click on your link so here’s mine:


    I gave the BBC a rare compliment on the article here, since I couldn’t detect any of the familiar pro-Obama bias in it.:


  204. 204 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 08:31

    Good morning, everyone!

    Soooo, Obama has finally announced his VP… hands up, who thinks he will be the right choice? I don’t know much about him and even less about the other potential candidates, but I read just now that Biden has a bit of a loose tongue (note to myself: must check genealogy for possible common great-great-grandmother), so will he be a good combination to Obama, given Obama’s wife’s statements?

  205. 205 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 08:34

    @ Shirley:

    I read that it kinda leaked when the security services started moving towards Biden. I guess the paparazzi always know first. Funnily enough, I read that Biden also was running for president and when he dropped out denied that he would accept the call for VP… guess the grapes aren’t that sour, after all.

  206. 206 Bob in Queensland
    August 23, 2008 at 08:34

    Robinette? ROBINETTE?

    The stand up comics must be rubbing their hands in glee and hoping for an Obama win!

  207. 207 Bryan
    August 23, 2008 at 08:37

    jessnyc August 23, 2008 at 2:22 am

    Besides it’s always the case that the when people’s political candidate is not the front runner, we always claim the other one is getting more media attention.

    This is probably largely true but there is of course also an objective evaluation of the coverage based simply on the amount of exposure each candidate gets in the media.

  208. 208 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 08:38

    Short chat to Bryan:

    I just recovered your post from the spam, there were two but they looked to be the same.

  209. 209 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 08:39

    Where do you get the Robinette from? Is that Bidens middle name?

  210. 210 Bryan
    August 23, 2008 at 08:53

    Katharina in Ghent August 23, 2008 at 8:38 am,

    Thanks, I think they dove into the spam because of the links. And yes they were identical. Funny thing is, they didn’t appear on my compt. with the red ‘Awaiting Moderation’ bar, so that’s why I thought they might have gone to that great blog in the sky.

  211. 211 Bob in Queensland
    August 23, 2008 at 08:54

    Yup…as per Shirley’s post, he’s “Joseph Robinette Biden jr.”.

    I shouldn’t laugh but his parents have a lot to answer for…

  212. 212 roebert
    August 23, 2008 at 08:55

    As a pinch hitter, low down in the order, and with a Pat Symcox attitude (Yes, the game is largely a joke, but we have to do our best), I’d like, once again, to go over the top and pose this question: Why are the Russians being condemned for doing in Georgia what NATO did in Serbia? Why is no one clamouring to get Saakhasvili and his generals sent to the Hague for atrocities committed in South Ossetia? Why, for Pete’s sake, is no one congratulating Russia for going in to protect the human rights and lives of the Ossettians?

    This sort of hoik usually gets me out, but surely, at this stage of the game, it’s a valid shot?

  213. 213 nelsoni
    August 23, 2008 at 08:59

    @ Jess, I may not be posting but I will be checking to moderate from time to time as an invisible mod’

  214. 214 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 09:08

    @ Shirley / languages:

    Dutch: Hoi (or: Goeie middag – G’day)
    German: Hallo (Guten Tag)
    Hungarian: H`el`o (Jo napot)
    French: Allo (Bon jour)

    How are you:
    Dutch: Hoe gaat het (speak: Hoo chaat et)
    German: Wie geht’s. (ouee gueat’s)
    Hungarian: Hogy vagy (hodh vodh)
    French: Ca va (sa va)

    My name is:
    Dutch: mijn naam is (myn naam is)
    German: Mein Name ist (myn naame ist)
    Hungarian: A nevem (o neaveam)
    French: Je m’appelle (she (sound as in ‘world’ ) mappelle

    Thank you
    Dutch: Dank U
    German: Danke
    Hungarian: K”osz”on”om (all the “o are again the same sound as in world)
    French: Merci

  215. 215 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 09:11

    Georgia on My Mind
    I told my family about Georgia’s aggression against Ossetia, and their jaws dropped. They had not heard a single thing until Russia reacted.

    Did *anyone* cover Georgia’s initial aggressions in English?

  216. 216 Bob in Queensland
    August 23, 2008 at 09:21

    Well, the BBC (radio at least) reported the Georgian troops marching into Ossetia a few days prior to the Russians getting involved.

  217. 217 Bryan
    August 23, 2008 at 09:33

    Here’s a dissenting point of view for the attention of the 99% of people on this blog who would follow Obama to the ends of the earth:


    Are you guys sure you know what you’ll be getting?

  218. 218 Virginia Davis
    August 23, 2008 at 09:43

    Welcome to moderation, Jessica….

    Though I know you are sleeping by now.

    Re the conflict between Georgia and Russia. It has been on the back burner for quite some time. However, I feel Saakhasvili made the first and the wrong move.
    Obviously now he cannot count on the US/NATO to rescue Georgia. And the Russians (Putin) took full advantage and moved in. And many civilians were killed and houses were wrecked and even peach trees uprooted. Now many are homeless and in mourning. What will be the outcomes? I don’t know. Who is responsible? The leaders. The other province wants to become independent, according to the Lehr Hour segment.

    I have just watched/listened to Charlie Rose interview the president of Iran. It was a good exchange. The rudeness of the president of Columbia came up. Rose much more of a diplomat. He did provoke a longish history of how Iran has been mistreated by the US and others. But then moved on to say: “What happens now?” Asked for a letter to Obama and got in reply that Americans were involved in an internal process. So he changed to: give your letter now to whoever will be president. The interview obviously took place earlier this week. His TV crew sailed past customs in Tehran with an Indian passport; however the Americans got held up for a few hours. Explained as tit for tat.

    It is almost 1:30 am here in Portland, Oregon.

    And, also, welcome to Imran.

    No one is disabled: everyone is differently abled.

    Roseanne Cash lit into a country singer who said her Dad would have been for McCain and said even she wouldn’t presume to know who her Dad would have been for.

    I lit into “The Correspondence Team” – first time back to me from that group – for the Biden leak and also suggested they check out Rolling Stone and the article about how Clinton’s big donors all climbed on board the Obama bandwagon which no doubt make some people doubt about “changes.” They even noted that if I was making a complaint, that it took all kinds to have a discussion.

    Virginia in Oregon

  219. 219 Tom
    August 23, 2008 at 09:52

    @ Shirley,

    The sentences on those 2 elderlies are more like house arrests.

    Regarding pro-tibet protests. Apparently there is a Tibetan-in-exile Olympic team being gathered somewhere in Switzerland.

    Please in Chinese is “ching”… to ask someone about directions usually starts with “ching wun you…” which translates to “please (I) ask you…”

  220. 220 Virginia Davis
    August 23, 2008 at 09:59

    Jamily5: good set of comments on how people whine about welfare and know so little. Probably before your entry to the blog but I am now officially on social security but was until last month on disability income from a psychiatric diagnosis; I’m also “old” – 66 this year; and let’s pull out all the synonyms: fat/obese/heavy/stout/compulsive overeater. My last job was for 15 years with the State of Oregon until my boss who “accomodated” me died in an accident and the person who came after him forced me to resign. I sued and settled out of court – can’t trust those juries when it comes to being labeled “crazy.” Anyway I’ve always been lucky but have know many not so who have, as the English say, been on the dole. Some good, some bad and some doing the best they can.

    Also: Shirley liked what you said about having a decent living wage so a young couple could start out and “mom” raise the kids and have a fairly good life.

    Same sort of comment this evening on NOW on public broadcasting about how the so called middle class is disappearing. The ever widening gap between paycheck to paycheck and the “wealthy.” I’m fairly certain – speak up folks – that most of the bloggers may worry about income but are not frantic. I’m lucky in having income from a rental unit to supplement SS and a small State pension.
    Still I worry about property taxes and my house insurance went up $150 this year which I still have to ask my agent what happened?

    It is just 2 am and my email from the Obama campaing re The Next Vice President has just come through.

    Hey Bob in Queensland, how are you? Liked the remark about stand up comics and Robinette!

    Virginia in Oregon

  221. 221 Bryan
    August 23, 2008 at 10:21

    Here’s a joke doing the rounds on the net. I’m sure my esteemed colleagues on this blog will appreciate it:

    One sunny day in May 2009, an old man approached the White House from across Pennsylvania Avenue , where he’d been sitting on a park bench.

    He spoke to the Marine standing guard and said, “I would like to go in and meet with President Barack Obama.”

    The Marine replied, “Sir, Mr. Obama is not President and doesn’t reside here.”

    The old man said, “Okay,” and walked away. The following day, the same man approached the White House and said to the same Marine, “I would like to go in and meet with President Barack Obama.”

    The Marine again told the man, “Sir, as I said yesterday, Mr. Obama is not President and doesn’t reside here.” The man thanked him and again walked away.

    The third day, the same man approached the White House and spoke to the very same Marine, saying “I would like to go in and meet with President Barack Obama.”

    The Marine, understandably agitated at this point, looked at the man and said, “Sir, this is the third day in a row you have been here asking to speak to Mr. Obama. I’ve told you already several times that Mr. Obama is not the President and doesn’t reside here. Don’t you understand?”

    The old man answered, “Oh, I understand you fine. I just love hearing your answer!”

    The Marine snapped to attention, saluted, and said, “See you tomorrow.”

  222. 222 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 10:53

    @ Bryan:

    Haha, the same joke came out after the fall of the USSR with a man asking for the newspaper “Prawda”. You can change the name and the location, but the structure will always stay the same – it’s one of those jokes that will stay around forever.

  223. August 23, 2008 at 11:36

    Hi Jessie honey… And a very huge WELCOME from my Baghdad to you ! ;-)…
    Hi my dearest Bryan… So you’re actually one of those guys who think that everybody around you is setting up a conspiracy against you and what you’re believing strongly in… Wow, that’s sounds supermarvellous ! ;-)… One of my favourite American movie features an American guy who’s exactly like you in many ways… Unfortunately I don’t remember its name but it starred the British actor Joseph Finnes… And the movie actually featured him in a very cute and lovable way to the extent that I made a wish after watching it that I’d meet such a guy in real life… And right now I do know that my wish have come true, but on the WHYS blog not in person unfortunately ! Anyway, if you do hate my brothers in our beloved Palestine that much, and I am so sure that you do (I stand corrected for that one), then surely you’ll consider every report that highlights or talks about their very harsh sufferance and ordeal as biased and propoganda… At the same time you’re not bothered at all by the shameless pro-Israeli bias policy adopted by almost ALL media organisations in the US… So why this ”selective anti-bias hypersensitivity” ?! With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…

  224. 224 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 12:17

    Hey Lubna habibti,

    How are you? Do you feel better again? I haven’t heard too much about Iraq on the news lately, was that because of Georgia and the Olympics or was it really rather quiet in your country? Is it still so hot in Baghdad? When will your classes resume, and what’s on the program for this year?

    I hope you’re doing well, we also haven’t heard anything from Zainab for a while, is that because her internet is still not working?

    I send my happy thoughts to you,

    (@ Bryan: That’s chit-chat! 😉 )

  225. 225 Bob in Queensland
    August 23, 2008 at 12:23

    @ Katharina and Bryan

    To avoid more recycled jokes, here’s a weak effort I came up with for myself in the last five minutes….

    What do you call a presidential candidate in a string quartet?

    Baroque Obama

    Sorry about that

  226. 226 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 12:30

    @ Bob

    That’s actually really funny, you should have that copyrighted…

  227. 227 Roberto
    August 23, 2008 at 12:42

    Re: Biden as Obama’s veep:

    So much for change. We’ll have two current Democratic senators with established liberal stances running for the office. Not going to tell Obama his business, but his team has been saying how they have to win over white “blue collar” voters. Don’t think this is going to put them over the top. They also need the latino vote.

    I’ve always liked Joe Biden. Intelligent, well spoken, seems to have developed some principles after being busted for fluffing his resume which snuffed his 88 presidential bid. He’s definitely not a nutcase “liberal,” is cool under fire, and would be a great resource for advice.

    With his long record, he’ll make an easy target for the swiftboaters though. Can two guys from an organization with an approval rating of 8-9% be elected?

    At this point, McCain becomes the defacto “change” candidate. Let’s not forget it was Biden who, when Kerry came a’courtin’, suggested he ask McCain to bolster his 04 bid.

    Can’t even imagine who McCain would chose, but if he can get creative and not have any major gaffes, he could pull this out. Stay tuned. It ain’t over ’til it’s over.

  228. 228 Bryan
    August 23, 2008 at 12:43

    Katharina in Ghent August 23, 2008 at 10:53 am,

    Yeah, I was pretty sure it was an old one.

    Katharina in Ghent August 23, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    (@ Bryan: That’s chit-chat!

    Yeah, I know. I’m just trying to prove to you guys, and Bob especially, that I’m also human, since he apparently sees no humanity in serious comments.

    Ah, I see that someone finally fished my Times link at 9:33 am out of the spam pond. I was beginning to think this site would automatically reject anything from the Times.

    Lubna August 23, 2008 at 11:36 am,

    I don’t hate anybody. Hate is really bad for you, body and soul.

    You’ve got the US media wrong. Try major media like the New York Times, CNN, Newsweek, Time and countless others that lean in lean in sympathy towards the Palestinians. I was going to just say it’s fashionable among the left wing intelligentsia in the US to be pro-Palestinian but that’s an incomplete description. It’s also mandatory. I mentioned on another thread that the Palestinians have a tremendous amount of support worldwide – far more than the Israelis could ever dream of having. You are letting your emotions cloud your judgement.

  229. 229 Bryan
    August 23, 2008 at 12:50

    Yes, that was funny.

    Here’s one I just made up, but I think Bob’s will trump it:

    What do you call a presidential candidate who wont meet his own troops?

    “Barracks” Obama.

  230. 230 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 13:04

    Good Morning WHYS…

    @ Bob thanks for helping mod last night for me!!!!!!!! Feel free to help whenever you have time to spare.

    @ Nelsoni I will definitely need poke your head in and help moderate today. What time zone are you in?

  231. 231 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 13:10

    Good morning Jess,

    I’m also around, and since it’s a wonderful, rainy day in Flanders, I can also help out for most of the day. Have you checked the amount of posts we already have? There were times when 230 was the total of the weekend!

  232. 232 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 13:12

    @Katharina and Jessnyc,

    Let’s go for 600 comments this weekend. Last weekend it ended with right around 550 comments.

  233. 233 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 13:12

    @ Bryan

    Yes, you’re human after all, and your joke was also good. Before long, you’ll start patting shoulders, too. (It’s a conspiracy… nobody is allowed to leave WHYS feeling worse than they felt before… don’t tell anyone, shhh!)

  234. 234 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 13:13

    @ Julie

    I thought you’re also a moderator? Was I wrong?

  235. 235 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 13:15


    I’m not a moderator.

  236. 236 Bryan
    August 23, 2008 at 13:17


    Dunno if you saw it, but I responded to your 12:40 am comment at 8:24 am.

    I’d also seen that BBC article and commented that it was a fair representation of the current state of the presidential race.

  237. 237 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 13:19

    RE VP: How do people feel about him as a choice? I have mixed feelings.


    I know. I’m still disappointed at the leak. Yes I got the phone text message and email about 2 hours after the story was leaked. By the way, I saw the wiki page updated too. It’s ridiculous, that it was one of the first things updated last night 2 hours before the official message.

    @Bryan thanks for the repost. I dunno what happen with my link. Yes, there are definitely independent media watch dogs that tally everyone’s total. We have TV regulation about the airtime each candidate gets, but that’s it.

    @Katharina– Super, thanks I welcome your help. Yes we were at almost 200 when I went to bed 5 hours ago, so I’d like think it’s all me, but it’s the dedicated WHY people. 😀 and the hot topics.

    @Julie any new prospectives on Biden? … 500! Women, I am just trying to keep up with you all.

  238. 238 Bryan
    August 23, 2008 at 13:22

    Katharina in Ghent August 23, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    What do you do with someone who felt fine until they got here?!

    Julie P – No, you guys wont make 600 without my help and I’m dropping out soon for a day or two, so there.

  239. 239 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 13:24



    He’s just a good of a choice as anyone else. They all have their pros and cons on either side of the fence. The thing that really matters is November 4th when the fat lady sings.

  240. 240 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 13:27


    Oh, well. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out! 😉

  241. 241 Bryan
    August 23, 2008 at 13:28

    jessnyc August 23, 2008 at 1:19 pm,

    We have TV regulation about the airtime each candidate gets.

    Dunno if they have anything like that in the UK, but the BBC certainly needs to be under that sort of restriction in election coverage. Its pro-Labour bias is out of control.

    That said, if course it’s not only the amount of air time but also the slant of the reporting on the candidates that is important.

  242. 242 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 13:29

    @ Bryan

    I mentioned on another thread that the Palestinians have a tremendous amount of support worldwide – far more than the Israelis could ever dream of having. You are letting your emotions cloud your judgement.

    You may be right about worldwide support for the Palestinians. However, the Palestinians have zilch support where it counts… in the US political arena.

    The Israelis have spent all their sympathy capital (of which they had much after WW1) as far as ordinary people are concerned.

    And… emotions always cloud our judgment. It is a given that we all see our own side as victims in such situations.

    The pot calling the kettle black syndrome is alive and well.

    I will say what I have said many times… it is a cryin’ shame that the Jews could not have done more to see that others were never again treated as the Jews had been treated. But there is no end to hatred and violence and the change Obama promises is as elusive, and difficult to capture, as the wind.

    It might be a good thing to elect him and see the kind of change he will bring. It is quite laughable when one thinks about it.

  243. 243 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 13:37


    Welcome to moderating!

    I will be around most of the day, if I can help in any way.

  244. 244 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 13:38

    @ Selena

    What’s the real shame is that there’s no such thing as “experiment” in real life. Imagine if the US could have put Al Gore into one sandbox and GW into the other and let them be president and see which one would have been better – and then elect either of them! The same goes here: wouldn’t it be nice if both candidates could be presidents in parallel universes and after a year the better one gets chosen?

  245. 245 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 13:39

    @ Bryan, hi there.

    Yes, I saw your msg, but your faster than me at replying.

    RE: following Obama to the ends of the earth… not me buddy. It’s absolutely true that I will vote for him and convenience others to do the same, because I believe he will do a better job than McCain. However, as far as I am concerned, no one being paid a tax payer salary to represent the best interest of all the people in a country as rich and diverse as the US is immune from faults or criticism. I have them for Obama, but McCain’s list is longer.

  246. 246 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 13:39

    @ Bryan:

    Biiiiig smile when they open the website. Very simple.

  247. 247 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 13:40


    My scenario would be a little different…I’ve been thinking of a cage match; whoever gets out alive gets the Oval Office.

  248. 248 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 13:48

    @ Bryan

    Re the regulating why someone else here know the specifics. I know the airwaves are regulated in terms of the campaign coverage time it gives each candidate, but that is not including breaking news events or something. ie- networks cannot cover Obama having a burger on the 4th of July, but not watch McCain eat his potato salad or fires. This is not extended to print media, because of the free speech clause in our Constitution. ;P

    Sorry, I’ll see if http://www.campaignlegalcenter.org/ has something more substantive than my sad little explanation. I have the stove going so it may take me a bit.

  249. 249 Jamily5
    August 23, 2008 at 13:48

    Hi Virginia,
    Wel, guess you have to experience it to know it!
    We certainly do.
    Courts/Gov/etc can be a hastle, I am glad that you persevered!
    And, diversity in incomes, age, abilities, religions, skin color, life views, experiences, interests, etc make the whys community truly great!
    Yes, there are probably some majorities.
    But, glad to have you in the mix… and your opinions also.

  250. 250 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 13:50


    It is the buzzword change that gets to me in a negative way. The times are such that anyone who clings to the latest buzzword has to be suspect and considered a bit naive.

    Perhaps my cynicism is showing but there is no way humans can change. We are all pawns in a game of winner take all.

    Now that Russia has entered the game again, it seems prudent to elect someone like McCain as leader. Good Lord, did I actually say that? 🙂

    Obama is listening to pop psychologists supplied by Ophra and, while the words are lovely, the action stinks.

    Presently, balance of power is where it is at, in my opinion, and there can be no balance build upon the imaginary change of preacher rhetoric.

  251. 251 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 14:14

    @ Virginia
    Thanks for the welcome. I missed the Charlie Rose interview, I’ll see if I can find it online.

    @ Bryan
    Your joke is not funny… 😛 Like, Katharina have heard it every election cycle. I don’t have a joke, but here is a funny line for you from McCain. “I am learning to get online myself, and I will have that down fairly soon, getting on myself. I don’t expect to be a great communicator, I don’t expect to set up my own blog, but I am becoming computer literate to the point where I can get the information that I need.” –New York Times interview, July 13, 2008

    @ Lubna
    Thanks. How are things in Baghdad? With the Olympics and media obsession over the Obama’s VP, there hasn’t been much news about Iraq. The only war movie I have seen with Joseph Fienner is Enemy at the Gates? Is this the one you’re referring to?

  252. 252 steve
    August 23, 2008 at 14:19

    Anyone wanna take a bet on how directly Hillary Clinton will be working with John Mccain now to get him to win so she can run again in 2012?

  253. 253 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 14:21

    @ Bob

    ….Baroque Obama, LOL.

    @ Roberto
    I agree re VP nom of Biden, but you lost me with McCain being the defacto “change” candidate. If my change you mean an extension of Bush.

  254. 254 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 14:21

    @ Selena

    “Change” is a very cheap catch phrase, especially when you don’t specify further what this change is supposed to look like and how you’re going to put it into action.

    I’m not too scared of Russia, though, probably because I don’t live in a neighboring country. Russia may (or rather does) get rough with them, just to show that they’re still around and in charge, but in the end of the day the dollar or ruble rules and I don’t think that Russia wants to loose business.

    But having said that, I had the feeling for quite some time now that Obama has no chance at winning the race.

  255. 255 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 14:22


    Wouldn’t she be foolish if she didn’t? LOL

  256. 256 steve
    August 23, 2008 at 14:24

    So much for “change”. Biden is a DC insider. Super liberal as well (meaning that since Obama was already liberal enough, there is no chance of winning red states). Biden, also has a reputation for being a liar. But he’s a politician, so that’s expected. He was asked about his standing in law school, and he graduated near the bottom of his class, but he said he was in the top half of his class.

  257. 257 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 14:29

    RE US coverage of Palestinians

    I have to disagree, Roberto. When I lived in the south (USA) I never once heard a pro-Palestinians media coverage. As one of my dear family members GOP supporters put it, “US with it’s Christian roots, will always support Israel in the conflict.” I see it more now, but that is because I seek out alternative news coverage from the US main stream to try and get a balance. Where in the USA are you? Maybe there is more of a pro-Palestine coverage there?

  258. 258 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 14:30


    You are right! It is money that rules.

    But, in the world as it is, i am beginning to accept that it is better to have more than one major power with the capability to wield the big stick.

    The cold war is starting to look good!

    Obama could have been a change agent had he understood that the change needed was not just a change of words.

  259. 259 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 14:37

    As I said earlier, I am disappointed Biden was the choice. He definitely can’t help with red states, I guess Obama saw it fit to have someone with foreign policy background. I don’t understand how that is more important than moderates , conservatives or independents in red states. *SigH*

  260. 260 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 14:40

    @ Selena and Katharina—can you help moderate for an hour, please? I need to tend to my stove and start the laundry.

  261. 261 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 14:53

    @ Jess

    Happy cooking!

  262. 262 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 14:57


    No problem… I will stay glued to the computer. 🙂

  263. 264 Devra Lawrence-Jamaica
    August 23, 2008 at 15:15

    Morning all! (well it’s still morning here in Jamaica)

    This is my first time taking part in a weekend blog, I’m obviously late, but will try to give my input where necessary.


  264. 266 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 15:32

    Weclome Devra to the blank page. I’ve only participated in 2-3 weekends myself.

    I was watching the Olympics yesterday, waiting for the infamous text msg re the VP that would never come (or 2 hours after the media released the VP leak. Sorry, still sore about it. Give me a few more hours to get over it).

    Did you see the Englishman who won the relay (and advance to the next level)? With all the criticism of Bolt, what did you think of his “mocking” and “disrespectful” actions as the announcers said? At least Bolt won the gold and broke records, so (in my humble opinion) had lots to be very excited about….

  265. 267 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 15:40

    @ Ay Selena… I missed that story, it was not good. A presidential candidate of a superpower and a homeless bother in a 3rd world country who lives on less than a $1 a day.

    Is family is always obligated to help the ones who have less?

  266. 268 Roberto
    August 23, 2008 at 15:40

    I agree re VP nom of Biden, but you lost me with McCain being the defacto “change” candidate. If my change you mean an extension of Bush.

    ——- It was Obama who who lost it.

    His cachet was youth, bi-racial/bi-national roots and a vote against the war in Iraq and he’s skillfully parlayed it into his party’s nomination. There is no history of change in his record however, and the selection of Biden may seem nice to his supporters, but it’s two status quo button down corporate guys running for office.

    McCain is the scrapper, the rock thrower, the rebel. He has a history of bringing about reforms in his military and political career. He was among the earliest critics of the Iraqi policies, taking on the most popular president in history as well as the republican party when most of the democrats were too fearful to speak out.

    It is widely considered that the status quo considers him too unruly and unmanagable, and starting with his military career forward, they would be correct. He is willing to go against the grain, including pork reforms, election reforms, and by being the most popular republican senator among the democrats during a time of extreme polarization.

    Obama is the better politician and I think him more than his brief record would suggest, but McCain is a natural leader and natural change agent. I can’t predict how either will run other than to note the PACs will be swiftboating both.

    The Russians are not leaving the largest Georgian port of Poti while 2 American warships are currently sailing to Georgia to deliver aid supplies. The world has become a scarier place and people vote their fears under such conditions. The independents always decide the election, and who do you think they will go for?

    Both to move to the middle to keep their base while gaining their share of independent votes in an election, but McCain already dead square in the middle dug in. Obama has to fight his way in. We’ll see what happens, but unless you count physical appearences, there is little change with Obama.

  267. 269 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 15:44

    I want to see Obama in the white house. I have come to this because McCanne doesnt know how many properties his family own. This I find rather strange because I would want someone to know how many properties his family own. I have heard reports that these properties are mortaged at something like $13m.

    This came after McCanne critised Obama for buying his home last year for $1m.

  268. 270 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 15:44

    It was Obama who who lost it.—- LOL, I’ll give you that one. BRB, I’m still cooking.

  269. 271 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 15:54


    I dunno! I think that I would help my half brothers and sisters. But perhaps, one has to take into account family jealousies.

    Obama did go to Kenya and he did see the conditions in which they lived.

  270. 272 steve
    August 23, 2008 at 15:58

    @ Robert Evans

    Obama said there were 57 states. I’d rather someone not know how many homes his wife owns than not knowing how many states there are in the country he hopes to govern.

  271. 273 Bob in Queensland
    August 23, 2008 at 16:09

    I dunno Steve. I think I prefer the odd slip of the tongue to a seriously wealthy man clearly out of touch with the vast majority of people he hopes to lead.

  272. 274 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 16:16

    @ Selena

    Me too, I think we should do what we can… (not specific to Obama’s brother, but in general) As the question that is so often challenged me to what if “they” don’t want to be helped?

  273. 275 Rash
    August 23, 2008 at 16:18

    salaam to all muslim bloggers out there. ummeedh hai ke ap sab teekhai.

    hi to all WHYS’ ers!

    wow the page is on full swing already..and i tawt i’d for once be early and catch the1st snippets.

    hi jessica, ur doing great!!im kinda new to this stuff with the blank page considering i joined quiet recently…but let’s see.im really enjoying the blog so far.

    obama’s selection of joe biden came as a surprise for me. i feel like that the question is, now is, not who would be the president, but how is the new president and VP gona rule the USA, leading its citizens to success…isn’t it?

  274. 276 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 16:21

    @ Robert Evans

    Agreed! Another of my fav McCainism is when discussing tax breaks for poor, he was asked what constituted a rich person he replied something like: Someone who makes more than 5 million! Then followed with Obama will take this out of context.

    I’d rather have someone who can’t count (missed the comments about the US having 57 states? Where was it said? Links?) than someone who think 1-4.9 million is poor.

  275. 277 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 16:27

    @ Rash, hi and welcome. Thanks, glad to help. There have been wonderful moderators helping me and the WHYS bloggers who have kept the conversations going.

    Point taken, re the president. The road to success is now a bit blurry.

  276. 278 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 16:34

    @ Jess [moderator on duty]

    I know about doing laundry, because i am in the
    process of doing it right now also!

    plus, i am doing packing for next week, because of my return to onondaga community college on 31 august 2008!


  277. 279 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 16:36

    Biden is a good speaker and has a sense of humor but he’s too old to see the benefit in spouting the word change over and over again.

  278. 280 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 16:40

    @ Devra:

    Your are never late to join in the chat! As Ros, would say! Welcome to the WHYS family!

    @ Barack Obama announcement of Joseph Biden:
    i am happy with the decision….


  279. 281 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 16:42

    @ Steve:

    i prefer a mis-statement of a small number of states! than someone who is totally out of step with the people….as bob in queensland wrote!!!!


  280. 282 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 16:48

    I just would like to have a person in charge of the United States of America to give a damn about the poor people in that country because your country is in trouble.

  281. 283 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 16:49

    @ Selena

    [Biden] is too old to see the benefit in spouting the word change over and over again. Love that line. LOL. I’m going t add that to my list of why Biden sucks as a vp choice. : D

    @ Dennis

    Why can’t cloths clean themselves? One of the benefits of living in NYC is that you can order almost anything. Most of our laundry mats have a service where they will come to your apartment and pick up your dirty cloths and wash, dry and fold them for you! They will even bring them back to your apartment. It’s relatively inexpensive for the US cost of things about $20-25, but with the state of this economy every dollar has to be watched. I once had a boss who give me a gift certificate for it, it truly was the perfect gift for a laundry hater like me.

  282. 284 steve
    August 23, 2008 at 16:49

    @ Bob

    Can you name me a President in the past 100 years that wasn’t incredibly wealthy? It’s not like Obama isn’t wealthy himself. He was a successful attorney, has made lots of money from books. Do you think any candidate is going to be like your average voter? So again, it comes down to Mccain not knowing how many homes his wife owns, and Obama stating there are 57 states.

  283. 285 Rash
    August 23, 2008 at 16:49

    the blog seems to be going from politics to laundry..s funny!!
    hate to leave this so soon..its around 9:15pm here in SriLanka n i juz came bak from classes and im wornout..got classes in the morning as well, so ciao all.will be back tomorrow 🙂

  284. 286 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 16:51

    @ Jess:
    it is nice to have a service like that! but i am from the northern counties in new york, were i have to do my own! when i return to syracuse, new york next week—i will be doing it on my own.

    i would like to have someone who can do it for me!


  285. 287 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 16:52

    @ Rash:

    laundry is part of our lives 🙂

    i would rather discuss politics than domestic things!



  286. 288 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 16:52

    @ Dennis,

    Nope only for a moment… I’ll get back to politics, still have thoughts on that.

  287. 289 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 16:59

    In the US it doesn’t seem like an impoverished man could ever be elected to the Presidency. However, MANY of them came from very modest upbringing and then gained moderate wealth by the time they called the White House home.

  288. 290 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 17:02

    @ At Dennis and Rash

    Replied to Rash and put Dennis name by mistake.

    Dennis— sound like a business plan. But it might not work in many places outside NYC who have a high demand crazy things like a bagel shop open at 3 AM and a farmers vegetable market open 27/7. LOL.

  289. 291 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 17:28

    I just watched the youtube clip of Obama’s slip of the tongue. Clearly it was a slip of the tongue, but was hilarious. He knows there are 50 states. He looked exhausted. (47 visited states + 1 he had not yet + 2 the two, Alaska and Hawii, that his staff would not allow = 60 stated)

    McCain not knowing how many houses he owns while Americans are struggling to hold pay for one mortgage….not so funny.

  290. 292 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 17:29

    I have heard reports that to be selected for the political parties you need to have an amount of money raised by the supporters which equals to more than $100m for there campaign. Personally I find ridiculusly high sum of money.

  291. 293 Roberto
    August 23, 2008 at 17:29

    Re Presidential wealth:

    ——— President and First Lady Slick were not wealthy when he was elected.

    She came from a modestly well to do family, but if anyone recalls their tax returns, the amounts listed were for a long time mainly his salary. Their real estate venture famously went belly up. I think the first real money they earned was her first book.

    Now, Slick may be the weathiest expresident in history, earning well over 100 mil for his last tax return. He did the yeoman’s work for the multinationals, and was thusly rewarded.

  292. 294 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 17:37

    @ Robert Evans

    The money spent on American campaign elections is absolutely ridiculous and outrages! This presidential election is going to reach a billion dollars.

  293. 295 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 17:38

    OUCH! Has anyone seen the new McCain ad showing what Biden has said about Obama? It is bad for Obama.

  294. 296 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 17:39

    Re: Laundry

    We are renovating a condo in Paris… LOL, for anyone who remembers, no it is not finished yet!!!

    I have 2 dishwashers and a clothes washer and NA type clothes dryer.

    Everyone thinks I am mad. The workers who delivered the dish washers thought it was a mistake.

    And it was almost impossible to find a clothes dryer in the stores here…

    I am not apologizing for wanting all the modern conveniences. There is only one life to live and I want my moderate comfort…

  295. 297 1430a
    August 23, 2008 at 17:40

    hello everyone
    long time since my last post.its been some great happenings around the world.Obama choosing a running mate was quite a headline for the day.the Olympics on the other hand is also coming to a sucessfull ending(except for a few unfortunate events).I hope London can provide something close to this one.
    But what anout a question:Is the BEIJING olympics the best ever hosted?Do think about it and I hope it makes to the show tommorow.
    Abhinav Khanal

  296. 298 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 17:41

    Here’s a link from the NYT website:

    McCain Rolls Out New Ad With Biden’s Words

  297. 299 1430a
    August 23, 2008 at 17:42

    hello again,
    sorry for the error:
    But what about a question:Is the BEIJING olympics the best ever hosted?Do think about it and I hope it makes to the show tommorow.

  298. 300 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 17:47

    @ jessnyc

    I agree with you and about the new McCain ad I heard about it

  299. 301 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 17:49

    @ selena

    And you should have to apologize. If all goes well, I’m hoping to move to paris in a few years, but doubt I will have a washer and dryer. Under the TMI (too much information) when I visit family in other parts of the US I ALWAYS arrived with two suit cases full of dirty laundry. They all have diswashers, washers and dryers. For the last 10 years, They make fun of me for it.

  300. 302 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 17:51


    I live in the United Kingdom and the governments line is that they are not going to be spending anymore money other than the £9.3bln. Although I am almost certain that if the conservatives come in to power then the budget will be going up for the London Olympics in 2012. I think that the government should spend up to £15bln I dont know if you agree but I think that it is worth it.

  301. 303 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 17:57

    Just saw the McCain ad and I can’t stop laughing.

    How their words can come back to haunt them, lordy, lordy!

    How can anyone take them seriously?

  302. 304 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 17:58

    @ Selna

    Sorry, meant you shouldN’T have to apologize. Typo from from the queen of typos.

  303. 305 Amy
    August 23, 2008 at 18:01


    When I was in college (and for about a year or so afterwards) every time I went home or visiting to a family members house, I always brought my dirty laundry. My mom would also send me rolls of quarters for the machines. I just hated staying up to do my laundry at 4 AM just to get a machine and not have someone take my stuff out of the dryer to steal my time. If you ever make it out here to Portland, feel free to bring your dirty clothes – you can use my washer and dryer!

  304. 306 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 18:02

    Jess, I guessed what you meant.

    But it wouldn’t have bothered me if you had meant should.

    I always feel bad when I exercise my right to comfort. 🙂

  305. 307 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 18:04

    @ 1430a

    I don’t think this Olympics was the best ever. Although, I do love to use livehyperbalies loosely like “the best-ever”, I’m not feeling it for BEIJING. 😦 The gross human rights violations and intolerance for free speech add a big black cloud for me. China blocked iTunes for having a pro-Tibet album… come on!

  306. 308 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 18:07

    jessnyc the major of london is a rather funny guy now we have a new one

  307. 309 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 18:09

    @ Amy:

    thanks for the offer to do my wash!

    @ Jessica:

    that is nice to have a farmer markets’ 24 hours a day

    @ Selena:
    Nice to have 2 dishwashers!


  308. 310 steve
    August 23, 2008 at 18:12

    Wow, check out this story, a Cuban athlete at the Olympics attacks a referee


  309. 311 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 18:17


    The chinese authorities should remove its self from the territory of Tibet because there was a ligamet government before the chinese authories moved in and took over. I think that if this was to happen then the Dalilamma who is currently somewhere in India would go back to Tibet and then rule that country.

  310. 312 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 18:30

    @ Amy
    That is reason enough to visit Portland! Next week work for you? 😀

    @ Dennis

    Indeed. This is the city that never sleeps, remember?

    @ Robert E.

    If only one could reason with the Chinese government.

    @ 1430A

    It has been a beautiful olympics, though. I was moved by the earthquake survivor little boy. It was a nice display of hope, but then China had a lip singing little girl replace actual singer was not pretty enough… *uhhh*

  311. 313 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 18:45

    I thought it was strang that it appeared that little girl was not singing yet we could here a voice. Personally I dont really care if the person dosent look pretty which was the official reason for the last minute change. I do agree with you that bring the young on to the world stage which is the olympics was a nice thing for this government of china to do.

    I that the Cuban taekwondo fighter was most certainly out of line when when he attacked the referee. I thought that the security would have stepped into at that point to deal with that problematic situation

  312. August 23, 2008 at 18:59

    Hi again gang ! ;-)… My two fair ladies Kathi and Jessie : A very huge Salaam to both of you girls… And thanks a million to both of you girls for asking and caring about me and my most beloved Iraq… Actually your very lovely words and attitude do always manage to make feel better….These days ”small-scale” terrorist attacks (caused by roadside bombs in most of the cases and sometimes by female suicide bombers) do take place on regular bases in Baghdad particularly and all over the country in general, and especially in my most beloved district Al Karradah… Each one of those ”small-scale” terrorist attacks usually cause a small number of civilian casualties, no more than ten in most cases, and that’s why those of you guys outside Iraq do not get to hear news from Iraq that much, because the news of those ”small-scale” terrorist attacks get reported in most of the cases only on the domestic media down here… Apparantly the murder of six or seven innocent Iraqi civilians in a single terrorist attack isn’t such a big deal eh ?! At least to the outside world… Kathi my love, currently almost nothing in my daily life is going in the right direction, so I am afraid that there isn’t anything good or happy about me and my day to-day life currently that I can tell to you and to the rest of my good friends here on the WHYS blog… I just do not want to be remembered as the miserable or the whining young woman from Baghdad, Iraq… After all, you guys do have millions and millions of things to talk about and discuss better than my depression or my feeling down right ?! ;-)… I am really so sorry Kathi honey… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…

  313. 315 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 19:02

    MSNBC is reporting who the Clinton voter are supporting:

    52% Obama
    21% McCain
    27% Undecided

    I wonder which poling source it was that accumulated this data.

  314. 316 Venessa
    August 23, 2008 at 19:04

    Hi All ~ Just catching up. Quite a talkative group last night.

    Fashion ~ the 80’s was tragic enough the first time around why is it we have to re-live it? Yup, I got plenty of embarrassing pictures with the big bangs, leggings & MC Hammer “crotch” pants. Sad….

    VP’s & Presidential election ~ I know this sounds idealistic but when can we get someone in office that is objective enough to do what is in the country’s best interest and not their own. I just don’t think it will happen no matter who the candidates are. Money is the focus and interest groups have enough to throw around to get their way.

    As far as campaigns go and the amount of money, it’s absurd! The way elections are run in the US is a joke.

  315. 317 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 19:10


    I understand, sometimes I feel bad as well. Then, there are times I feel like what I have is not enough. The important thing is to not let these things over power the important ones and to be grateful to the advantages we have… whatever they are.

    Today, despite loathing laundry, I am thankful I don’t have to wash my cloths by hand or in a river as many people in the world.

  316. 318 Venessa
    August 23, 2008 at 19:11

    Jessica ~ you’re welcome to do your laundry here too. I live closer to downtown than Amy… 😉 I’ll warn you though I might put you to work on my house remodel!

  317. 319 Sheikh Kafumba Dukuly
    August 23, 2008 at 19:23

    Thanks Jess for holding up to the task. your number is swelling. My respect to some of the great regulars: Nelsoni,Julie P,Shirley,Vanessa,Amy,Anthony, Andrew and all the other folks.
    @ Obama’s Veep.
    I personally link that choosing a running mate is for political completeness. The mate should bring something to the ticket. So, Joe Biden Foreign Policy credentials is good. I don’t see it as a weakness by Obama. I think criticism is intended to point out our flaws and the great politician is the one that works on his weaknesses.
    I just hope that the OBAMA-BIDEN Tickets wins the aspiration of Americans for they are the electorates.

  318. 320 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 19:23

    @ Lubna

    Its good to hear from you

  319. 321 Venessa
    August 23, 2008 at 19:23

    Jamily ~

    You make some good points about the welfare system and the bias that many people have toward welfare mothers. I can say with some certainty that these lazy people do exist. I grew up around it and in it. Where I lived there were plenty of lazy people suckling the system including my own mother. Yes there were women in my neighborhood popping out kids to get an increase in their welfare. This doesn’t mean that there aren’t people out there really trying but certainly some reform needs to take place to “weed” such people out. They really do give a bad name to people that truly need assistance.

    My mother didn’t work until she absolutely had to because she wasn’t getting a free income anymore. Of course part of that was probably due to her horrible drug habit. There were plenty of times we were on food stamps and were getting food donations. There was no reason for that; had she been sober she was completely capable of working. She was just too lazy and had an easier route by getting a check she didn’t have to work for.

  320. August 23, 2008 at 19:23

    Hi again gang ! ;-)… 1- Jessie my love and my dearest Bryan : The name of the movie is actually ”The Darwin’s Awards”…. 2- Shirley my love : Salaam sweetie… Thanks a million honey for everything, for the links and for the very beautiful narrations you provided me with… May Allah always bless your golden heart, Amen… 3- My dearest Bryan again : Hi… Why don’t you talk about FOX NEWS and its shameless pro-Israeli bias policy for instance my good friend ?! And of course I am totally governed by my emotions, after all I am a woman, and a cancerian ! ;-)… A question to all our Precious American WHYSers : I say that ”some ;-)” American media are adopting a firm pro-Israeli bias policy… Am I right or wrong ?! With my love… Yours forever, Lubna…

  321. 323 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 19:24

    Hi Lubna,

    I will never think of you “as the whining young woman from Baghdad”, and while yes, there are many other things to talk about, we, the WHYS community, do not forget about you or about the things going on in your country. To me you are very strong, even if you feel weak at the moment, but I’m confident that you will find the strength to pull through and see a more positive side to life again soon… do you have any chocolate to cheer you up? I rather have a “whiny” comment from you than none at all, WHYS wouldn’t be the same without you!

    Love, Kathi

  322. 324 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 19:31

    @ Obama vs. McCain

    Personally, I’d rather have someone as president who comes from a modest background and made it big rather than someone who was more or less born with a golden spoon in his mouth. At least, he knows what it means to live from paycheck to paycheck. Now I’m not sure about how much this was the case with Obama, but it seems that McCain comes from a more rich family with a big naval/military history. It clearly took more for Obama to get where he is today than McCain, and I think this deserves respect.

  323. 325 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 19:37


    I agree with Kathi… better to have a whiny comment from you than no comment at all.

    You are in my thoughts all the time. To tell the truth, I don’t know how you manage to keep your head living in a war zone.

    You are very brave Lubna; your friends and neighbors need you and your talent.

    I feel terrible talking about two dishwashers…


    I read that Obama’s mother’s family was wealthy.

  324. 326 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 19:38

    Did anybody see the movie “Man of the year” with Robin Williams?


    I think he made a very valid point in this film: If you take money from the big lobby groups, you owe a lot of favors, so all the promises you make are just to fool the masses, because you can never follow up without angering the hand that fed you… and they will not feed you again.

  325. 327 Roberto
    August 23, 2008 at 19:40

    But what about a question:Is the BEIJING olympics the best ever hosted?

    ——- Compares very favorably with the 36 Berlin Olympics.

    Chinese also replicating German’s dominance of gold medals, neighbors, and grand spectacle.

  326. 328 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 19:40

    @ 320 plus posts its Saturday evening on the time difference!

    We could easily break 500 posts this weekend!

    I would love to see 600 posts!

    Because when the next time i moderated! i have my own number!!! 🙂


  327. 329 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 19:42

    This election is going to be a very interesting battle witth Obama vs McCain although I have a question and that is what happens to the person who losses at the election of the presidency of the United States.

  328. 330 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 19:43

    @ Selena

    Interesting to hear that Obama does actually come from a wealthy family, I checked on wikipedia but this little fact was too mundane to mention. Of course it always depends on who makes the entry.

    About your dryer: I didn’t have a problem to get a dryer here in Belgium, but here many dryers don’t just blow the humid air outside but collect the water in a little tank that you have to empty. These dryers can be placed anywhere. If you can’t get them in France, you should take a little trip over the border…

  329. 331 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 19:44

    Hi Lubna:

    My dear friend in Baghdad!

    I can answer the question about FOX NEWS and its BIAS! Answer is Rupert Murdoch and his friends..

    I pray for you and your country’s prosperity every night!


  330. 332 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 19:46

    @ Robert:

    The person who loses will pick his favorite topic and go on tour giving talks for the rest of his life – see Al Gore 😉

  331. 333 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 19:48

    @ Lubna question: A question to all our Precious American WHYSers : I say that ‘’some ;-)” American media are adopting a firm pro-Israeli bias policy… Am I right or wrong ?!

    To answer your question: Pretty much, you are correct! But–they have had that idea for many years…not in the last 7 years.

    @ Selena:
    Poor you, My dear friend…take the advice of our dear friend Kathi in Ghent…Take a car trip to Belgium!

    @ Katharina in Ghent:
    About the dryer! Forget that…the chocolate is what we need…


  332. 334 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 19:49

    ****Katharina, Bob, and Selena*****

    Please moderate for me for 1.5 hours. I have been cooking for a lunch gathering to step out of the apt quickly.

    Everyone else, I read your comments. No disrespect intended in my lack of reply, I want to take the time rather than give a quick 30 second response. I’ll be back shortly.

    A couple of other things to consider discussing while I’m out:

    1) Russia breaks its pledge to pull troops from Georgia as agreed: http://www.telegraph.co.uk

    2) Bhutto’s widower to run for Pakistan presidency: official

  333. 335 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 19:50

    –Katharina, Bob, and Selena

    Please moderate for me for 1.5 hours. I have been cooking for a lunch gathering [and need] to step out of the apt quickly. thanks!

    –typo queen

  334. 336 Amy
    August 23, 2008 at 19:51


    What would be the favorite topic for either McCain or Obama to talk about? Also, they still would be sitting senators (meaning they would still have a job, at least until 2010 when they both would be up for reelection)? Gore was always talking about global warming. I really can’t pinpoint a cause that either current candidate would take up.

  335. 337 Venessa
    August 23, 2008 at 19:51

    I can help out too.

  336. 338 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 19:51

    @ Jess:

    Bon appetit! Bob’s probably asleep by now, but Selena and I will stay in the drivers seat.

  337. 339 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 19:54

    @ Amy

    Hm, difficult question. I’m not in the US, so I don’t know the two well enough, but for McCain it might be that he writes his memorials and then gives readings from his book and for Obama… I’ll say… the 57 colors of change.

  338. 340 Katharina in Ghent
    August 23, 2008 at 19:56

    @ Dennis:

    Not everything in this country is perfect (looking out of the window, it has been raining all day, ugh!), but the chocolate… probably the best chocolate in the world, I’m not exaggerating. Definitely worth a trip!

  339. 341 Sheikh Kafumba Dukuly
    August 23, 2008 at 20:00

    @ Pakistan.
    Asif Zardari has some moral issues to pick with the judges if they get reinstated. He is already apprehensive about that. Sharif wants judges reinstatement to be one of the first political issue to settle in post-musharraf Pakistan.

  340. 342 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 20:00

    @ Jessnyc

    I suspect Russia has carried this invasion into Georgias break away regions because they want to show that after some years their military can and will be able to invade a country, Although I want to know why they are not using this strength in a more positive way. I am struggling to understand their thinking when they decided to invade Georgia because one of the areas has population which is the same the population in my home town.

  341. 343 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 20:02

    @Katharina in Ghent August 22, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    About schools:

    Here what i had to read to get into housing at Onondaga Community College:

    Click to access ResHallApp08-09.pdf

    [pages 2 thru 7]

    it is always a good read!


    [update: i was given housing for the Fall Semester 2008 and Spring Semester 2009].

  342. 344 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 20:05

    @ Kathi,

    I know, that in Belgium, not everything is perfect…..

    But the chocolate is good…

    Love, you my dear friend and my assistant!

  343. 345 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 20:14

    #Dennis and Kathi

    I eventually found my dryer in France but I would love to, visit Belgium.

  344. 346 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 20:16


    I saw “Man of the Year”. The point was very well made about specialist interest groups having too much say in government. For me I walked away with the reinforced belief that people do not realy vote on the issues; they vote on sound bites, slogans, and personalities.

  345. 347 Amy
    August 23, 2008 at 20:29


    I know that in Belgium you have excellent chocolate….. anytime you want to share, I know I’d love some 🙂

  346. August 23, 2008 at 20:45


    I’m not impressed with these Olympics. Here in the USA the live commentary has been shrill. We only see events where Americans have a good chance and they are given to us 13 or 15 hours AFTER we already know who won.. Hours and hours of TV time was spent on replays of Michael Phelps. Then diving, beach volleyball, and gymnastics, all sports that seldom make it to the sports page were televised here as if they were top sports.

    Watching the gymnastics was just weird with the Chinese girls being called “women gymnasts.”

    And it was strange to see so few “fans” in the seats.

    For me the Jamaican sprinters were the best story.

  347. 349 Venessa
    August 23, 2008 at 20:48

    portlandmike ~

    My husband has enjoyed watching the Olympics. I told him he needed to mute it because I didn’t think I could stand listening to the commentators any longer. I’m glad someone else shares this feeling with my husband & myself.

  348. August 23, 2008 at 20:57

    My most beloved friends Kathi, Selena, and Dennis : A very huge Salaam from Baghdad to all of you guys… You guys really have no idea how much your very lovely and xtraordinarily kind words have lifted me up and raised my morale… THANKS A MILLION guys… I do owe your kindness and goodness a great deal… May Allah always bless your golden hearts, always, Amen…
    My dearest Dennis : Thanks a million my most beloved friend for answering my question about the the firm pro-Israeli bias policy adopted by ”some ;-)” American media and also for answering my question about FOX NEWS…
    My dearest Robert : Hi… So nice to hear from you too my good friend… I actually have this deep affection for anything that’s British… Have you seen the movie ”The Painted Veil” by Edward Norton and Naomi Watts ?! Ever since watching it, I am thinking seriously of going into the lab and inventing a perfect British doctor to be my soul-mate for life !!! ;-);-);-)… May be Kathi my love can help me out in this, since she actually specialises in genetics eh ?! What do you say Kathi honey ?! ;-)… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad… PS, Jessie my love, I do wash my clothes by my hands ! ;-)…

  349. 351 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 21:20

    Hello Around the World
    Tom, thank you for even more Chinese tips. Here is what I have, then, so far on the Chinese hello.

    hello: ni hao (nee how) *
    my name is Ling Ling: ___ (don’t know yet)
    please: ching
    thank you: xie xie (shyeh shyeh)
    you’re welcome: ___ (don’t know yet)

    * I have not seen anyone greet each other with a hello/peace/greetings/welcome in Chinese. Usually, they ask how you are doing and proceed from there. It would run something like this:
    ni hao ma?
    wo hen hao, xie xie. ni ma?
    wo ye hen hao, xie xie.

    That does include the words for “very” and “also” and “thank you;” and it would not surprise me if people shorten it to a few soundbyte-wrthy syllables to make it faster.

  350. 352 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 21:22

    Olympic Protests
    Tom, can you explain the gathering of the exiled Tibetan Olympc team in Switzerland? What do they hope to do? Have they been in aniy Internet-based news articles that you could link up here? Thank you again.

  351. August 23, 2008 at 21:25


    I see that Gary Kamiya agrees with us about the Olympics (does this link work?) http://www.salon.com/sports/olympics/2008/08/23/broadcast//

  352. 354 Virginia Davis
    August 23, 2008 at 21:56

    Obama and Biden appearance in Springfield, IL – good, both of them, not too long. CNN. The damn underlines distract me~ Funny slips of the tongue which, of course, media (and McCain) jumped all over. Music was Springteen: “The Rising” and U2 ‘It’s a beautiful day.”

    I like John Truedell: say what you mean, mean what you say. Anyone know John Truedell? Santee Sioux poet tracked by the FBI and “crazy as hell.” His wife and family assassinated by “them” when he was in DC working for AIM. Has a website.

    Anyone seen the new movie “Swing Vote” – Kevin Kostner plays “Bud Johnson” (the name of my dead boss, the former Registrar of Oregon) and his daughter – well, that’s me: 45 years ago. Oh yeah, Willie Nelson croons: “you were always on my mind…..” But she doesn’t want to be prez; a vetanarian or Chairman of the Federal Reserve!

    Keep on keeping on…..

    Julie P: “cage fight?” – come on. What about each having a dog and a “southern” dog fight like the jailed football player? The winner with the live dog could breed puppies and auction them on ebay to raise campaign funds.

    Political campaigns cost way too much. Anyone read my remark lately: we live in an oligarchy of money and power.

    As for change: “the times they are a’changin” always have, always will.

    Great joke, Bob. Will email it to David Plouffe. That’s me: networker from way back.

    Going to take a shower (did laundry earlier this week) and then go have my main meal at a Vietnamese soup place.

    Loved all the different languages showing up on the blog…

    Lubna: Please let us know how you are, even if only “nibbling chocolate.” For Spirit’s sake, you are our war correspondent. Tell us more about your neighborhood. Every death counts…..every death.

    Virginia in Oregon

  353. 355 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 21:57

    Hello Around the World
    Lubna, habibti, assalamu `alaykum wa rahmatullah. You own’t tell us the Arabic phrases for hello, how are you, my name is ___, please, thank you, and you’re welcome? We are trying to gather those greetings is several languages inshallah.

    You all have impressed me so much. Kathi, Amy, Jamily, and Roebert; how did you guys learn Hungarian, Russian, Shona, and Zulu, respectively? Amazing, mashallah. 🙂

    Jamily, the Urdu word “tum” is used when one interacts with his peers. When addressing an auntie or the President, though, the word “aap” is used. It uses a plural verb conjugation. It is akin to the difference between the French tu and vous.

    Number of words: 112

  354. 356 Venessa
    August 23, 2008 at 21:59

    portlandmike ~

    I think that’s a good article. I would like to also note that most of the rubbish that comes out of the commentators mouth is a repeat of what they said 10 minutes earlier. After a day or two of that I would rather listen to Backstreet Boys blaring at maximum volume while banging my head against the wall. My husband thought mute on the TV was a much better option.

  355. 357 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 22:01

    @ Venessa, Katharina & Selena—- I’m back, thanks ladies for helping moderate. Oh and Venessa it’s a deal, plus I am very handy with a hammer.

  356. 358 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 22:07

    Welcome back jessnyc

  357. 359 Julie P
    August 23, 2008 at 22:16


    Okay, the idea of a cage fight came from a male friend of mine, so…

  358. 360 Venessa
    August 23, 2008 at 22:18

    Jessica ~ No problem! My husband would be pleased if he could have someone around a little handier than me. I’m learning though and it’s been fun… for me.

  359. 361 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 22:18

    I’m watching the Obama- Biden press conference, I missed during the lunch event.

    I’m not impressed! I certainly will not be doing any cartwheels, as one of my friends put it. I fail to see how a man who spent a year in Iowa and finished last will help win the election. Sure, Biden has decades of foreign relations experience, but I fail to see how he will bring in Clinton’s working class voters. Urrrgg. So what if Biden’s catholic? LOL, did I just hear an analyst say that will bring Hispanics in!?!

    CNN made me laugh, when they said Biden can deliver Delaware. Oh yesssss, then, then the Presidency is in the bag.

  360. 362 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 22:24

    So now, McCain need to pick a young and charismatic running mate and he’ll be toe-to-toe with Obama. If he put a woman on the ticket, I might swing his way. LOL

    …. and change his position on a few, just a few, policies like healthcare, education, the economy, women’s rights. See, I’m flexible and very reasonable.

  361. 363 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 22:29

    McCain is going to be I think its 70 or so when the presidency has been won

  362. 364 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 22:36

    @ Robert

    70 is a spring chicken these days! 🙂

  363. 365 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 22:37

    WHYS Funnies
    Bob: …presidential candidate in a string quartet? -Baroque Obama

    Hilarious! I loved it. Thank you.

  364. 366 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 22:38

    Economy & Culture of Life vs Culture of Death
    Virginia, thank you. A significant proportion of the people in my area have been visiting food pantries and soup kitchens lately. Charitable thrift stores have sprung up in several neighbourhoods; and they are equally as popular. We can cut desperation here with a knife. (It is a very strong feeling here.)

    By the way, thank you and (I think?) Selena also for the note on the Obama cell phone thing. I was wondering if anyone got the call.

    Number of words: 86

  365. 367 Robert Evans
    August 23, 2008 at 22:39

    @ Selena

    Well that doesn’t surprise me

  366. 368 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 22:41

    Obama’s VP
    Roberto: We’ll have two current Democratic senators with established liberal stances running for the office.

    Liberal?? Biden supported Bush’s war! Tubbs Jones was liberal. Boxer is liberal. Kucinich is liberal. Conyers is liberal. These other guys, even Obama, are centrists who make a sad parody of liberal.

    Rash, walaykum assalam bhai. Is your name Rashid? What does the word “umeedh” mean? (Or Jamily or Imran could help me here.) Don’t take an Obama presidency for granted, brother. Anything could happen. We lost once to the di,pled chad and “long line,” then we lost again to the “power losses,” “long lines,” and “lost polling booths.” Anything can happen this time around. Would to God that we still had Stephanie Tubbs Jones to stand up for us if it does happen again.


    Number of words: 135

  367. 369 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 22:42


    Did you hear Obama introduce Biden as the future President?

    That was some boo boo…

  368. 370 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 22:47

    @ selena! What! Now that is a slap in the face to Clinton. Are they trying to piss Hillary and Bill off, not to mention her voters. More people voted for Hillary than Obama. We have seen, Bill is not a graceful loser who doesn’t hold his tongue.

    That’s it, I’m flip flopping over to McCain in protest until Nov, then I’ll flop back. 🙂

  369. 371 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 22:52


    I can’t understand why he didn’t pick Hillary. News reports say that he didn’t even consider her for a second.

    Those politicians have no heart!

    Did you hear that Steve?

  370. August 23, 2008 at 22:54

    @ Olympics,


    Hopefully next Olympics ALL the games will be live via the www AND we can watch what we want Live.

    The very first night I was able to watch the men’s cycling road race live over the web. It was great. There was no commentator. It was as if you were sitting on the back of a motorcycle watching the race.

  371. August 23, 2008 at 23:01

    @ Billary,


    Many believe that Billary wants Obama to fail so they can run again in 2012, and that their support of the ticket will be lukewarm at best. This is why Billary will have her night at the convention. Her supporters will be embraced by Obama and his team. Hillary will be hailed as a break through candidate. Bill will be warm and enthusiastic.

  372. 374 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 23:07

    @ Selena

    I don’t think it has anything to do with heart, but the very opposite. Clinton attacked him hard and relentlessly. He would have never picked her as his running mate, I honestly think he’s rather lose the election. I’m not sure they would have made a good team. She would over shadow him. What do you think?

    Obama comes off very cool and relaxed person, but it seems that at the heart of all politicians is an ego and pride.

    Ooooh, just saw the replay. So is biden suppose to be the president at 73/74 years old.

  373. 375 Dennis
    August 23, 2008 at 23:09

    @ Lubna: no problem, i usually any question that you will ask…

    @ CNN: They make plenty of mistakes!


  374. 376 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 23:11

    @ portlandmike

    LMAO— Billary. I’m gonna miss all the election whoopla when this election is over. Yes, well I think she made her position very clear in saying he can’t win the general election, so I can understand why people would think she wants him to fail.

  375. 377 jessnyc
    August 23, 2008 at 23:16

    @ Roberto

    Are you here? Did you see the analysis on Obama no longer being a candidate of change? They made your same points.

  376. August 23, 2008 at 23:19

    OK gang… I have to sleep right now so Good Night everybody ! ;-)… Salaam
    Shirley sweetie… Here’s your request honey :
    Hello : Marhaba…
    How are you : Kayfalhal…
    Thank You : Shukran…
    Not At All : La Shukra Ala Wajib…
    Please : Rajaan…
    My name is : Ismi…
    Those phrases are from English to Arabic….
    And BTW Jessica in NYC… The girl I am calling Jessie in my comments is actually you, just in case you did not notice ! ;-)… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…

  377. 379 imran
    August 23, 2008 at 23:27

    walaikum-assalam shirley,
    well, “umeed” means hope. so “umeed hai aap sab theek hon gay” would mean “hope you are all fine” If anybody has further questions about urdu, feel free to have my E-mail address from the moderators if they object to giving it out.

  378. 380 selena
    August 23, 2008 at 23:34

    Night everyone! I am off to bed!

  379. 381 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 23:36

    Lubna: PS, Jessie my love, I do wash my clothes by my hands ! 😉

    Ya ilahi ya Latif! This world has gone insane! Lan`atullah `ala ash-Shaytan! Translation – :`(

  380. August 23, 2008 at 23:48

    @ Billary,


    I dont think she would have overshadowed him, but Bill might have. The White House would have had to “manage” him. It would be a nightmare. Imagine the news teams wanting Bill’s comments on the news of the day…everyday?


    A commentator describing the action during the women’s gymnastic event where they throw rings, and batons, and ribbons, said of one performance, “… she had two visable mistakes.” I guess it is the invisible mistakes that really hurt?

  381. 383 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 23:53

    Selena: it is a cryin’ shame that the Jews could not have done more to see that others were never again treated as the Jews had been treated. But there is no end to hatred and violence and the change Obama promises is as elusive, and difficult to capture, as the wind.

    Obama’s words do not seem to reflect a changed policy regarding the Holy Lands in the Middle East. While he made some comments regarding improving the Palestinian government, the overall tone of his comments seem to indicate a strong bias against Palestine. Obama praised former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon by saying that Sharon’s role in the conflict had always been “absolutely important and constructive.” (BBC News, January 26, 2006 and AP, January 11, 2006) He also defended Israel’s response to the killing of eight Israeli soldiers and kiddnapping of two others near the border with Lebanon in an interview with Tim Russert on Meet the Press, August 22, 2006. Obama also supports the Israeli position that Jerusalem should remain forever undivided under Israel rule. (Haaretz and CNSN

    This is one of many reasons that I say that he is nowhere near liberal, but rather a centrist.

    Number of words: 194

  382. 384 Shirley
    August 23, 2008 at 23:55

    Olympic Sportsmanship
    Jess, I agree with you. The British competitor had no excuse for behaving as he did.

    Jess: Is family is always obligated to help the ones who have less?

    I would say yes. I know that if I had any means, anything left over after I had cared for my basic necessities, I would at the very least be donating to charity, if not running some extras over to family members. (depends on geographic capablity) One of the most frustrating things about being economically challenged is seeing others giving and giving and giving to charity and to poor people and to civic institutions, and you can only sit on your thumbs and run the numbers through your head again.

  383. 385 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 00:25

    @ Shirley

    RE Olympic Sportsmanship, I wonder if anyone has ever lost for looking over to see the other runners only to have one run past him. That would be funny.

    RE family and $, I know exactly what you mean.

    RE Israel, yup US is more pro-Israel.

    @ portlandmike

    RE Billary, It would have been very entertaining to watch Bill saying looney things. I’m a bad dem.

    @ McCain vs. Obama

    Are the candidates more important that the polices/positions they represent?

  384. 386 Shirley
    August 24, 2008 at 00:25

    Olympic Moments
    Mike: Then diving, beach volleyball, and gymnastics, all sports that seldom make it to the sports page were televised here as if they were top sports.

    I actually appreciate the change from the drudgery, actually. About the only sport that I enjoy watching on TV is car racing. The Olympics are a welcome change of pace for me. I admit that the gymnastics competitions held the greatest interest for me, from the age controversy to the falls and tears to the stuck landings and beaming smiles. And now this rhythmic gymnastics – at least, the one with the ribbons – and the synchronised swimming are intriguing me.

    Btw, you have a point when you brought this up. A commentator describing the action during the women&34;s gymnastic event where they throw rings, and batons, and ribbons, said of one performance, &39;… she had two visible mistakes.&39; I guess it is the invisible mistakes that really hurt? I would add, though, that there have been last minute twists before divers enter the water, failure to complete the third twist, etc. that I simply could not catch until the slower replay.

    Number of words: 190

  385. 387 Shirley
    August 24, 2008 at 00:27

    Olympic Talking Heads
    Venessa, I can understand how the talking heads can get annoying. However, when a competition involved artistic merit or high-speed technical skills, I need the quick eyes of those who have competed in that sport before. I do wish that they would not go on and on and on and on about how the baton was dropped the night previous, though. I already felt bad enough seeing the faces of the athletes afterwards. Watching the baton roll over and over and over again the next day was another sting of the same slap.

    Number of words: 93

  386. 388 Shirley
    August 24, 2008 at 00:29

    Salam Lubna, I agree with Virginia. Keep us up to date eh. And walaykum assalam, Imran.

  387. 389 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 00:30


    Concerning are politicians vs. the issues and.or policies. It date back to our Founding Fathers feud. They invented the attack styles that are prevalent in American politics. I believe it’s a part of our culture, to vote on perceived personalities.


  388. 390 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 00:40

    @ imran

    I could use a talking computer to allow me to multitask better. Preferably, one that I could talk back to it and ask it to do things for me…. Oh wait am I describing a person? Did you read that tech reports that say computer will be able to think like humans by 2050.

    @ Robert E

    Apparently, Selena is right–70 is the new 60. Obama thinks Biden can be president at 73/74 years old (assuming Obama gets 8 years). I have not forgotten about the other comments, I’m catching up.

    @ Shirley

    What part of the world are you in, if you don’t mind me asking?

  389. 391 Amy
    August 24, 2008 at 00:49

    Re: Olympic Commentators,

    They can be very annoying but it has been interesting for us since we have been watching a lot of the events that are on CNBC, MSNBC and USA network like archery, water polo, fencing, hand ball (can anyone explain that to me?) and table tennis. My girls have really enjoyed it. I would like to ask our friends outside of the US about the coverage they have seen. Is it live? I also thought it was interesting that most of the “analysts” for the family of NBC networks are still in New York. They aren’t in China.

  390. 392 Amy
    August 24, 2008 at 00:54


    You are never whinny!! And, like everyone else, when I don’t hear from you for a few days or see a post from you, I get worried. Please know that even though you are going through a rough patch right now, the big, strong arms of your WHYS family are around you and will help you up should you stumble (that includes Natalie and Abby too!) and keep you steady on your path. We love you and only want the best for you. I hope you have had a good night’s sleep (since it will be morning in Iraq before you read this) and can look up at a blue sky and allow the sun to warm you and put a smile on your face.

  391. August 24, 2008 at 01:01

    @ Olympic Commentators,

    I haven’t seen any LIVE events on television here in Portland, Oregon.

    What pushes my buttons about the commentating is how smug SOME of the commenting is. Our gymnastic commentator implied that she could see not only the visible mistakes, but also the invisible ones too.

  392. August 24, 2008 at 01:05

    Hello all,

    Just wondering if anybody saw this. http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/wrestling/news?slug=ap-wre-abrahamian&prov=ap&type=lgns This was the second time he had been wronged in the Olympics according to some.

    With all of the fixing and rigging in nearly all other sports, is it possible that the Olympics are untouched.

    Should athletes have to wait a full day before receiving their awards just to make sure all contested results are reviewed?

  393. 395 Robert Evans
    August 24, 2008 at 01:10

    Please when replying to my posts please call me ROB

  394. 396 Amy
    August 24, 2008 at 01:12


    Might not be a bad idea…..at least in the events that are judged. Things like track, swimming, weightlifting and games with scores (all of the “ball” events come to mind) seem pretty cut and dry.

  395. 397 Robert Evans
    August 24, 2008 at 01:16

    Why are England not in the Olympics Football Competition

  396. 398 Robert Evans
    August 24, 2008 at 01:22

    Off then people I will talk again to you in a few hours

  397. 399 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 01:29

    @ Dwight from Cleveland

    Doesn’t seem likely does it? Who can blame Abrahamian. I agree with Amy, seems like a good idea for non-ball-scoring-sports. Also, what happen with the Chinese gymnast who was accused of having her passport falsified to make her eligible to compete. Anything come of it?

  398. 400 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 01:51

    @ portlandmike

    The seeing Jamaican sprinters has been a highlight for me in these olympics. A close second was the swimming competitions. Seeing Torres get a medal was fantastic for me.

    @ Dennis

    I’m glad too hear you won’t be sleeping on the street and blogging under a street lap. Good job on the appeal.

    @ Katharina
    I agree your country has best chocolate and swiss comes in at a close second.

    RE: Amy’s question. Obama’s 57 colors of change, yes he can! That was funny.

    @ Amy

    I think McCain would talk about the war, any war. I have to say, I respect for him for his service and for not capitalizing on his son being a solider in Iraq.

  399. 401 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 02:56

    Ok, it’s gotten a bit quiet, here. Hope people in my side of the hemisphere are enjoying their Saturday evening and the other half is sleeping well. I’m going to step away for a couple of hours. I’ll be back later and check in before I go to bed.

    In no particular order, more developing stories from around the world to discuss/think about:

    1) From India: N-deal: NSG ‘failure’ may cost govt dear

    2) Cool, a Saber-toothed cat fossils discovered in Venezuela:
    Off-course rocket destroyed by NASA

    3) Al-Qaida claims to have killed 130 in Algeria

    4) Russia breaks its pledge to pull troops from Georgia as agreed: http://www.telegraph.co.uk

    5) Bhutto’s widower to run for Pakistan presidency: official

  400. 402 Bob in Queensland
    August 24, 2008 at 03:16

    G’day all!

    Re: McCain’s Anti-Biden Campaign Video

    A genuine question for the Americans on the blog.

    Over hear we only hear about/see American campaign videos when the do something unusual.

    From McCain all we’ve heard about are things like the “Who do you want answering the phone at 3AM”, the Paris Hilton and now the Biden Quotes. All these seem incredibly negative campaigning, designed to reflect badly on the Obama campaign rather than make a positive statement about McCain.

    So, my question is: Is McCan running an exclusively negative campaign, or are there other videos outlining his policies and abilities that we just don’t see reported outside the USA?

  401. 403 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 03:20


    I have yet to see an ad from McCain’s camp that has any real substance about his policies. However, I would be remiss not to say that I believe negative campaigning is the meat and potatoes of American political campaigns. It dates back to our Founding Fathers.


  402. 404 Dennis
    August 24, 2008 at 03:23

    @ Jessica, our dear moderator:

    some of the folks @ Onondaga Community Community, kind of don’t like me! But Who Cares…

    I also got my housing assignment for housing!!! Which i moved in on 31 August 2008…..


  403. 405 Dennis
    August 24, 2008 at 03:28

    @ Lubna:

    Regarding Amy comments: that u are whinny! You are not!….

    I love you forever, my dear friend!


  404. 406 Venessa
    August 24, 2008 at 03:29

    I haven’t really seen any positive campaigning for McCain other than the “Maverick” congratulating himself. It’s the reason I think campaigns are a joke and why people vote on soundbytes.

  405. 407 Dennis
    August 24, 2008 at 03:30

    @ McCain:

    his ads, will be the same as bush [current]….he is going on the same path and nothing will changed!

    Dennis 😉

  406. 408 Bob in Queensland
    August 24, 2008 at 03:39

    @ Julie P

    Thanks for that link! It gave me a good laugh to see how little things have changed!

    I have to say that I guess I wouldn’t make a very good American voter–I have a very low tolerance for negative campaigning and tend to sit there yelling at the screen “yeah, but tell me why you think you’re better”. This is especially true when the “negativism” is about personality rather than policy.

  407. 409 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 03:42


    I’m the same way. I’ve jumped on a couple people’s case about that recently. If you want to know anything of substance it requires that a person do independent research of their own.

  408. 410 Shirley
    August 24, 2008 at 04:06

    Olympic Moments
    Jess, I am from the US. And seeing how Dara Torres got her silver was extraordinary for me. She has such awesome sportsmanship.

    Election Campaigning
    Bob, my family will probably vote for McCain. Even they admit that his campaign ads have been negative overall.

  409. 411 Roberto
    August 24, 2008 at 04:08

    All these seem incredibly negative campaigning, designed to reflect badly on the Obama campaign rather than make a positive statement about McCain.

    ——— Incredibly negative quite an overstatement at this point.

    Most of the real negative campaigning comes from the Pacs, not the nominee camps, though they will have their select targeted ads.

    Right now McCain just picking low laying fruit. The hard work comes in the last month. That’s also when the PACs will break out their swiftboats for the hits and runs for maximum damage before the election.

    The general policies to be stated at the conventions. Policy just a working document for the press and other literal types who want documentation. History is that the winner will have a vast unspoken agenda that plays out in conjunction with political realities and limitations of his day.

    There is nothing in his political career to suggest GDub would turn out as he did. He, a rich kid presented a new unlimited Global Carte Blanche card, fell off the wagon and reverted to his old personality, drunk on power this time and running down anything in the road.

    Slick on the otherhand, well, he certainly played to political type, completely checkmated by republican congress, no where to turn but Monica and then a Wag the Dog war in exchange for his wife’s umpteenth forgiveness.

    McCain to be ultimately portrayed as an unstable hothead, and Obama gets to play the foreign celebrity. Shakesphere would be drooling for the duration pumping out new creations.

    McCain has a very rich, self deprecating humor that will contrast to Obama’s serious nature in the debates, much like Reagan/Carter debates. Not predicting the result mind you, but some people decide to cast votes based on a single issue or personality trait. Something to think about.

  410. 412 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 04:09

    @ Good morning Bob,
    Yay, your back and brought loquacious people with you.

    RE McCain: No he is running (or rather, has run) positive ads, but mostly during the primaries. When a party is trying to decide who their nominee is going to be the ads are kind of clean. The candidates try to distinguish themselves from the others running against them in their party. I think if you go to his website, he’ll have a list of all his TV ads.

    Julie P is right about the ads, especially before the general election, they’re mostly attack ads. Dirty business our founding father started.

    @ Olympics
    -WOW! AUS’s Mitchum’ scored a perfect 10 in his dive. So cool.
    -Sonia Richards beating the Russian team at the last second 4x 4 relay was awesome.

    @ Dennis
    Ah, so don’t sweat it, we can’t win ‘em all.

    @ Katharina
    RE politians biting the hand that feeds them:

    That sums up the problem of American politics. I was once told by a congress member (House of Reps) that from the first day they take office they must raise $10,000 a WEEK in order to get reelected. They serve two year terms. It made a very big impression on me in terms of who are their [all politicians] real constituents.

    @ Julie P
    The dumbest of thieves video was hilarious… can’t believe he was hanging their for over an hour and had the nerve to say he didn’t do anything, he was stopping the thief. You should forward it to Jay Leno he loves dumb criminals.

  411. 413 Shirley
    August 24, 2008 at 04:17

    Hello Around the World
    Bob, could your wife help with a project on the board? I’ve been asking people to supply various greeting phrases in whatever languages they can come up with. Does your wife speak good Welsh? Can she help? The phrases in question follow.
    How are you
    My name is ___
    Thank you
    You’re welcome

    Thank you! :=)

  412. August 24, 2008 at 04:19

    Hi Virginia Davis
    Reyr August 23, 2008 at 9:43 am comment.
    I saw Charlie Rose’s interview too. Very low key affair.
    I think Rose should have gone straight to the point. What is Ahmadinejad doing abour runaway inflation?
    Why is Iran buidling Herat while the rest of the world is fighting in Afghanistan?
    Why doesn’t Iran cutback on expenditure abroad – supporting Hezbollah, Hamas, investment in Venezuela, Senegal and Mali – while there is shortage of Forex in the country?
    Why is thuggery still rampant in Iran and when are political prisoners to be set free?
    When is Tehran going to repatriate its citizens and pay reparation and renumeration for property seized and confiscated during the Revolution?
    Iran is getting what it deserves and has only itself to blame for the hostage crisis in 1979 and the Eight Year War with Iraq.
    It is the soft line which US had adopted on Iran which led to so many problems! People in Iran want freedom of speech, freedom of the press and immunity from arrest and the only way they will get it is to fight for it, manifest and show resistance to tyranny.

  413. 415 Bob in Queensland
    August 24, 2008 at 04:27

    @ Jessnyc

    Re: Political Funding

    I couldnt agree more. The present system (and it’s not just an American issue by the way) seems to go out of it’s way to make sure that the big donors have undue influence over politicians. At least in the USA (unlike the UK) you don’t have the added issue of “cash for honours”. In the UK, as well as influence, political donations can also buy knighthoods and other “honours”.

    I don’t know what the best solution is but the status quo is unacceptable.

  414. 416 Virginia Davis
    August 24, 2008 at 04:33

    Jamily 5 & Shirley: Thanks for positive feedback. Virginia in Oregon

  415. 417 sahar009
    August 24, 2008 at 04:35

    Steve: Bad idea to pay students to behave. They shouldn’t have to be paid to behave, they should want to behave because it’s the right, nice and beautiful thing to do. It’s how you manage to inspire that in a student that becomes the challenge.

  416. 418 Bob in Queensland
    August 24, 2008 at 04:50

    Hi Shirley!

    Caer is out just now but her Welsh should be good enough to help you–I’ll give her your list when she gets back in!

  417. 419 Jamily5
    August 24, 2008 at 04:55

    I know that sometimes it feels like there is no hope, but keep the faith.
    Things will get better, soon. Sometimes we don’t know how God will work.
    We get so many surprises.
    We will always be here for you.

  418. 420 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 05:46

    @ Jamily5

    I missed a couple of substantive comments earlier in this blog, because I was still trying to get a hang on the way things worked here. Sorry to the delayed, but wanted to share my thought on your response re welfare:

    I think a lot of misconception of welfare parents and other goverment assistance programs has to do with media’s reports of them and the journalist who give inflammatory commentary. Not everyone here in the US is surrounded by a diverse group of people or information. It’s important when people are brave enough to share their personal stories and challenge the status quo view point which can help change the misconceptions…. debate is always a healthy thing, in my opinion. I’m fond of being the devil’s advocate.

    But, but, but, I am pretty sure we can blame welfare parents for the our bad economy and the stock market on top of the Georgia/Russia conflict. ;P

    @ Virginia Davis

    I’m glad you shared your person experience. Jamily5 said it best: glad to have you in the mix. Haven’t you heard, Meryl Streep said 60 is the new 40 and she is the queen.

    A good friend of mine is an editor of a medial magazine. She says people in general are very ignorant of metal disorders, because the science is so new and not widly understood. So keep doing your part to break down the barriers and hang in here. Also, forgot to say thanks for the welcome earlier.

  419. 421 Bryan
    August 24, 2008 at 05:46

    selena August 23, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    I will say what I have said many times… it is a cryin’ shame that the Jews could not have done more to see that others were never again treated as the Jews had been treated.

    You seem to think this is an original idea but the same mind-numbing comparison of the Israelis to Nazi Germany has been used for decades and is all over internet forums popular with radical Islam and the “liberal” left. I’ve seen it before on this forum and frequently on Have Your Say when the Israeli-Arab conflict is being discussed.

    Fine, freedom of speech and all that, but then people should at least learn about the Holocaust so they know what they are talking about. A good place to start is Hitler’s Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen.

    Hitler took advantage of widespread anti-Semitism in Germany to whip up anger against German Jews. Verbal assault was followed by physical assault, destruction of property, robbery, murder and eventual expulsion to the death camps of Poland. The Germans shot Jewish women and children in mass killings at the edge of graves that they forced Jewish men to dig before killing them. They kicked and whipped defenceless Jews to cram them into cattle cars on the way to the gas chambers of Auschwitz and other death camps. German guards singled out Jewish prisoners from non-Jews and starved and shot the Jews on death marches even though the war had already been lost and the allied forces were closing in.

    With bestial cruelty on an unimaginable scale the Germans slaughtered close to a million Jews during the Holocaust. One and a half million of them were children.

  420. August 24, 2008 at 06:02

    Bryan as always defending your position. You do no justice to the other millions, yes millions, of non-jews that were treated the same way as the Jews under occupation. My family for a start.

    What you say here does not excuse the behaviour of the Israeli government or the IDF. You always base your arguments on.. but look what they’re doing. That is not much of a defence. What next, only following orders? As I am sure those soldiers accused of crimes would raise.

  421. 423 Bryan
    August 24, 2008 at 06:04

    Selena, I should add that if you want to draw comparisons with the Nazis, have a look at the Arabs. You can start with al-Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who met Hitler and conspired with him to extend the “Final Solution” of the “Jewish Problem” from Europe to Palestine. Have a look at the Nazi-friendly government in Iraq and the slaughter of the Jews there in the forties. And consider the hatred of Jews taught to small children and the venomous anti-Semitic preaching in mosques throughout the Arab world and beyond. And don’t forget close to a century of Arab terror against the Jews of Palestine and Israel and the successive attempts of Arab armies to annihilate the Jews.

    And what on earth is this:

    The Israelis have spent all their sympathy capital (of which they had much after WW1) as far as ordinary people are concerned.

    I have never heard of a Jew who required sympathy from anyone as a result of World War I or II or whatever it was you meant. Do you really believe the Israelis have been relying on “sympathy” as a cover to act like Nazis towards the Palestinians?

    Support the Palestinians, fine. But please don’t make comparisons that are meaningless except as a gross insult both to present-day Israelis and the victims of the Holocaust.

  422. 424 Bryan
    August 24, 2008 at 06:19

    Would you care to substantiate that about your family, Andrew?

    You always base your arguments on.. but look what they’re doing.

    That is simply untrue. I can direct you to reams of material I’ve posted here to prove that.

    But if I don’t respond now it’s because I have to go.

  423. 425 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 06:45

    ——I’m off to bed, any mods out there, please keep an eye–just one–on WHYS—–

  424. 426 Bob in Queensland
    August 24, 2008 at 07:00

    Good night Jess! Sleep well!

    (Closes one eye to prove he can follow orders.)

  425. 427 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 08:35

    Good morning, everyone!

    @ Bob: When you get the translations from your wife, please, remember to include how you’re actually supposed to pronounce it! What little I’ve heard from Welsh, there’s a gap as wide as the Grand Canyon between written and spoken Welsh.

    @ Bryan: The hard facts that you present about Nazi Germany are correct, but things were not as simple as they look in retrospect. The atrocities accumulated over time, it reminds me a little bit of the story of the frog in the boiling pot of water: If you put the frog in the pot when the water is hot, he’ll jump out immediately, but when you put him in cold water and slowly increase the temperature, you’ll get a boiled frog. If the Nazis had started mass-killing the Jews immediately, I don’t think that it would have gone down too easily, but most of the mass-killings happened during war time, when the general population had a lot of other worries on their minds. The general population also knew that “something” was going on in regards to the Jews, but they had no idea what exactly or in which scale. Anti-Semitism was also not a German invention, it was a world-wide sentiment and Jews had been persecuted everywhere, which explains why they got so little help when the Nazis went berserk

    My grandparents were Nazis (little numbers, just followers) and I had some long talks with them, and I think that they were quite open about what happened during that time.

  426. 428 selena
    August 24, 2008 at 10:30


    1. Israel was founded on appeasement!

    2. There were many innocent people, other than Jews, who were killed by the Nazis that have been pushed aside by the intense focus on the Jews.

    3.When I talk about the Jews, I am talking about the Jews. There is no requirement, in my opinion, to make comparisons. It should be self-evident that there are bad apples in every barrel.

    4. The history of the Jews is well known to me.

    I am truly sorry if I offend your sensibilities.

    Selena Jacobs

  427. 429 selena
    August 24, 2008 at 10:31

    @ Bryan

    Posting reams of material does not address the issues being discussed here.

  428. 430 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 10:49

    I also think that without what happened during WWII Israel would not have been founded – not just out of a “guilt feeling” from the rest of the world, but because until then Israel was just a distant dream of Jews but not something that too many Jews were overly concerned about. (Before you start hitting me with a hammer: I’m well aware of the Zionist movement of the 19th and early 20th century, but Palestine was a pretty barren land where nobody in their right mind, who was used to civilized life in Europe with proper infrastructure would want to move to unless they had to.)

    And before you accuse me of being pro-Arab: I’m really not, if Palestinians honestly wanted to improve their situation they should finally stop throwing grenades and rockets and start working properly. And for what it’s worth, I buy Oxfam’s olive oil from Palestine.

  429. 431 Bob in Queensland
    August 24, 2008 at 11:03

    @ Shirley

    Okay some Welsh translations for you:

    Hello: Croeso (Cro-eh-suh) (literally “Welcome)
    Yuked Daa (Yuck-eh Dah) (literally “good health)

    How are you? Shwmae (shoo-MY)

    My name is: (name) dwi (duh-WEE) (or a-duh-WEE for a name ending in “s” or a short name)

    Please: no direct translation. Yuked Daa would likely be used again

    Thank you: Diolch (dee-OCH) or Diolch yn Fawr (dee-OCH un vow)

    You’re Welcome: again not a direct translation but Croeso again.

  430. 432 Robert
    August 24, 2008 at 11:07

    Hi Shirley

    I’ve not seen Portuguese answers yet so it will give me a practice whilst I’m on vacation outside of Angola. I’m on an English UK keyboard so not sure how I can show the accents on the letters, will highlight them afterwards).

    Hello Ola (accent on the a)

    How are you Como esta/estas/estao (singular formal, singular informal, plural) (Accents on the a’s)

    My name is ___ Chamo Me

    Please Por Favour

    Thank you Obrigado (for men) Obrigada (for women)

    You’re welcome de nada is the closest which means no worries.

  431. August 24, 2008 at 11:07

    Hi agai gang ! ;-)… And good morning Jess my love… Ah, I have said it before on this very blog, and I’ll say it again : I do not hate Jews at all, but my heart, my soul, and my mind are all filled with extreme hate and flaming rage against occupation and occupiers regardless of their religions, races, or ethnicities… My support for the cause of my brothers in our most beloved Palestine isn’t a matter of irratinal and stupid emotions at all, it is a matter of firm moral principles, it is a matter of what my moral conscience as a human being implies on me to believe in, it is a matter of an original and immortal love that can never die or change no matter happened… I breathe Palestine, I sleep on Palestine, and I wake up on Palestine, and I will raise my future children to all of that too Inshallah, and they in turn will raise theirs to all of that as well… It is a very huge mistake and stupidity for anyone to believe that imposing false realities on the ground by exploiting extreme military force and unconditioned, influencial and limitedless financial, political, and military outside support from the world’s supreme powers, if anyone thinks that all of that can erase, undermine, or intimidate Palestine and the Palestinians, then that someone is actually making a very huge mistake and being totally stupid… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…

  432. 434 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 11:15

    Hi Lubna,

    So happy to see you again! In my ideal world, Israelis and Palestinians could live peacefully side by side, both attending to their own business and making business with the other. I think that so many bad things have happened there, committed by both sides, that this is a very unrealistic dream. Israel is here to stay, and I think that generally it made or could make a positive impact on the region in terms of economy – no (?) oil and yet a thriving economy and democracy, but with all the animosities there a lot of energy gets wasted on hatred and negative actions. I wish everybody there could wake up one day and see things from a much more realistic point of view, then there could finally peace in this region.

  433. 435 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 12:05

    @Andrew and Abdi,

    I found this on YouTube for gold medal medal performance on last weekends BP. Enjoy.

  434. August 24, 2008 at 12:15

    Hey Kathi my love ! ;-)… Thanks a million sweetie for your very kind and lovely words… Actually you, Shirley, Amy, Dennis, Selena, and all of our good friends here on the WHYS blog are all making me feel that I am being taken care of…. Now some very interesting Middle East stories for you Kathi honey and for all of you guys who do actually ”care” and believe that Palestinians are human beings who do deserve to live an honourable and dignified life just like any other human being in this world :
    1- Truce barely eases Gaza embargo : news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7570605.stm
    2-West Bank struggles for water :
    3-Activist boats reach Gaza strip :
    Your comments please… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad….

  435. 437 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 12:24

    Good Morning all…. thanks Bob (again!) for your help.

    @ Lubna, hi dear 🙂

    Hope you’re feeling better today. How are things in Iraq? As Virginia said, you are our war correspondent. As I mention yesterday, I to agree the US has more of pro-Israeli bias policies. It’s one of the reason I do not engage in an Israel vs Palestine debate, I always only listen trying to make sense of it all. I feel completed ill informed. It’s probably in only debate I have never participated in. 😦

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the warm welcome. If you’d having a bad day, especially in a war torn county it’s very understandable. This does not make you whinny. Stay safe and keep your sprits up. All war must come to and end.

    You are a lovely lady and I am glad to have had the opportunity to blog with you.

    With respect,

    PS- I had a feeling you washed your cloths by hand. Now, I’m sorry for being a whiner about hating laundry.

  436. 438 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 12:25

    Hey Lubna,

    What can I say… so much needs to be done but one side doesn’t trust the other (both ways). Do you think that if Israel would start seriously helping Gaza and West Bank and fix what’s broken, Palestinians would put down their weapons and start living normal lives? My question is without a bias, it’s an honest “what if” question.

  437. 439 steve
    August 24, 2008 at 12:38

    @ Selena

    Alright, then name me nations that were created by outside forces that was not created by “appeasement”. Was the arab state to be created in 1948 created by Appeasement as well? Had the arabs not attacked, there would be a 62 year old Palestine today. Also, what about hte other arab nations? They were ALL created by european powers. Why does israel get singled out again? Was Pakistan created by appeasement as well?

  438. 440 steve
    August 24, 2008 at 12:41

    @ Andrew

    “What you say here does not excuse the behaviour of the Israeli government or the IDF. You always base your arguments on.. but look what they’re doing. That is not much of a defence. What next, only following orders? As I am sure those soldiers accused of crimes would raise.”

    Let he without sin cast the first stone. Are you suggesting all nations but israel are completely fine? I’m guessing you are British, right? Do you have ANY idea what your nation has done over the years? They invented the concentration camp in the boer war. The ethnically cleansed the Accadians out of Canada, had a world wide empire, engaged in divide and conquer, causing most of the problems that exist in the world today, yet Israel is the nation that needs special criticism? Please…

  439. 441 Bob in Queensland
    August 24, 2008 at 12:58

    @ Steve

    Who said anything about SPECIAL criticism? Of course Israel is not alone in being guilty of actions that deserve to be criticised. The Palestinians also deserve criticism. So does Iran, the USA and, yes, Britiain.

    However, for some reason any time somebody makes a post critical of Israel’s actions or policies a certain segment of the blog (probably a microcosm of the world) becomes extremely defensive–any criticism of specific actions suddenly brands the poster as “anti Israel” and/or “pro Palestinian”.

    You say “let he without sin cast the first stone”. Fair enough but, by the same token, why should Israel be considered above criticism when clearly they engage in activities which, at best, can be considered provocative and, at worst, appear to be state terrorism. Britain (and, incidentally, I don’t think Andrew is British) deserves criticism for much of its past–but so does Israel. Why isn’t it acceptable to say so?

  440. 442 selena
    August 24, 2008 at 13:02


    Whilst we insist on debating how this happened and how that happened people are suffering. That is something that rhetoric tries to deny but cannot succeed in accomplishing.

    As long as we refuse to open our eyes and look at
    suffering there can be no end to such suffering.

    It does not concern me one whit who did what when. What has happened in the past can never be erased.

    What I can do is encourage people to look at what is happening right now on the ground in places like Palestine and Iraq. Just to open our eyes and see the human suffering… human suffering, not Muslim or Jew or Christian.

    Heaven forbid! Do we have to continue the stupidity?

    The leaders are all a bunch of cold blooded creatures who manipulate people like you and me. There will be no help from them ever, no matter who they might happen to be.

    WE can change the world if we can be persuaded to give up our own idea of truth.

    I am not holding my breath though because it seems that on this blog some of the smartest young people are clinging to their truths dearly.

    If the youth don’t open their eyes, how can anything ever change? Today’s youth are being primed to carry on the mission. Meanwhile babies are suffering. I wouldn’t mind the dying so much. It is the suffering for life that gets to me.

    You can think about what I am saying or dismiss it all as the ramblings of an older woman. 🙂

    Seriously, it seems, like Sisyphus, we are doomed to keeping rolling that rock…

  441. 443 Roberto
    August 24, 2008 at 13:11

    Re Israel:

    ————— Don’t claim to be the scholar, but it is indeed so dispiriting to hear the same ol’ tripe recycled endlessly.

    If folks are talking about today’s problems, perhaps it’s telling that they conveniently overlook the peaceful, cooperative relations the Palestinians and Israelis had from ’93-00. Palestinians busted up all the carefully crafted peace agreements in 2000 with a wave of suicide terrorist bombings on Israelis. They were able to do this because at the time they could travel freely within Israel proper. Bombings have been greatly reduced with borders shut down and walls built.

    Current situation is untenable and cannot be substained, but since Palestinians have no unified leadership to negotiate with, the status quo remains until the next violent upheaval. It’s a war front, and that means death and destruction.

    Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Israel all share similar histories of notable civililations overrun by various Mesopotamian, Roman, Arab, Ottoman, and European empires. Syria and Lebanon established in the latter half of WW2 in negotiation with then exiled French leaders and secured by allied troops until the cessation of WW2. Libya, Jordan, AND Israel established shortly afterwards.

    Yes, it is telling when a person objects to the establishment of Israel, but not the other countries mentioned. Nobody is keeping Palestine from being established but the Palestinians themselves and surrounding Arab states.

    Let us remember that the Israelis took in a million Jews who had to flee for their lives since WW2 and made them citizens, whereas the Palestinians who fled were placed in refugee camps and have no such citizenship. Yet somehow the usual suspects blame Israel for this atrocity.

    As far as so called “atrocities and illegalities” by Israel, one could argue they are no worse than what the UN commits worldwide, or what surrounding Arab states impose on Palestinians daily.

    I regret certain Israeli supporters are overzealous in their support for Israel, but these cases would have to look elsewhere for their compulsive disorders if only surrounding Arab counties could develop more equitable governing leaderships instead of self-serving tribal type leaderships which have kept these lands in a brutal feudal state of being.

  442. 444 steve
    August 24, 2008 at 13:57

    @ Bob

    Who said Israel was above criticism? The problem is, israel gets criticized for whatever it does. If the UN could condemn Israel for everytime an Israeli gets born, they would do that. It seems nothing makes people happy unless Israel goes away. Imagine if the Russian invasian of Georgia got the coverage that the Israel-Lebanon thing in 2006 got. Just imagine. And that was israel responding to a hezbollah attack (and has Russia or Georgia ever been dedicated to the destruction of each other like hezbollah is to israel?) There’s all sorts of stuff going on in the world, yet israel gets the MOST scrutiny on the planet. Why?

  443. 445 selena
    August 24, 2008 at 14:23


    Have you ever thought that your perception is colored by your connection to Israel?

    Others think that Israel is not criticised enough.

    It is all a matter of perception, on all sides.

  444. 446 Bob in Queensland
    August 24, 2008 at 14:54

    @ Steve

    I think Selena sums it up nicely. Yes, Israel comes under scrutiny but the “MOST scrutiny on the planet”? Hardly. You use the Russia/Georgia situation as a comparison. Well, since the Russian invasion I’ve heard very little indeed about Israel other than a brief mention of the sea-bourne demo today. Russia, on the other hand, has been mentioned and criticised on virtually every bulletin. Perception, as Selena says.

    One other comment. You say the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 2006 was in response to a Hezbollah attack. Yeah, it was–but Hezbollah would say that their attacks are in retaliation for things Israel has done–which Israel would claim were in retaliation for Hezbollah attacks–ahd so on. I’m mightily sick and tired of the tit-for-tat politics of both sides in that dispute and get the impression that most WHYS posters feel the same way. It’s time for some creative thinking and vision from both sides, not the “politics of the playground” we have now. “Mummy! Hezbollah started it again” “No I didn’t. Israel was picking on me!” Pah! A pox on both their houses.

  445. 447 Zainab
    August 24, 2008 at 15:14

    Hello to all the bloggers, how are you all? Hello Jessica, congratulation the blank page reach over 400… good job.Salam Dear Lubna, Shirley, Amy, Venessa, Selena, Katharina, and to all. it’s been some along time since I last was in the blog (due to a problem in the net connection), but I was listening to the program on air.
    I misssssssssssss you (all) alot.
    yours truly,
    Zainab from Iraq

  446. 448 steve
    August 24, 2008 at 15:31

    @ Bob

    Can you please show me the UN condemnations of Russia invading Georgia? I won’t hold my breath. Israel gets condemned for EVERYTHING it does. I’m sure ISrael got condemnd for being attacked in the 1973 Yom Kippur war. Condemnd for not losing as well.

  447. 449 Bob in Queensland
    August 24, 2008 at 15:37

    @ Steve

    You and I both know the only reason the UN didn’t condemn Russia was that country’s use of the veto.

    …and your assertion about the UN is ironic considering how often the USA has used ITS veto in defence of Israel.

  448. 450 steve
    August 24, 2008 at 15:40

    @ Selena

    How is it possible to criticize israel more? Have a TV network devoted to condemning Israel for everything it does?

    Al jazeera’s top two stories are about israel, of course


  449. 451 Robert Evans
    August 24, 2008 at 15:44

    @ Bob

    I personally totally agree with you. I think that if a country who invades illegally a country then I feel that they should lose there vito over that issue

  450. 452 steve
    August 24, 2008 at 15:44

    @ bob

    the general assembly can condemn russia. that’s what they do all the time to israel.

  451. 453 steve
    August 24, 2008 at 15:45

    @ Bob

    Maybe if there were 57 jewish states on Israel’s side the US wouldn’t veto anti Israel. But the fact is, there are 57 muslim nations, virtually all of them hate Israel. If Israel cured cancer, it would get condemned.

  452. 454 Robert Evans
    August 24, 2008 at 15:55

    Do these other countries not know that Isreal could simply wipe each of them off the world map. It doesnt because it wishes to get on with the other countries in that region friendly.

    Russia was being arrogant when it invaded the two parts of Georgia

  453. 455 selena
    August 24, 2008 at 16:02


    How can one measure criticism objectively? What is criticism to me may not be criticism to you and vise versa!

    Criticism is a mug’s game.

    From your posts here I take you to be a person who does not put much faith in US politicians.

    Does that lack of faith extend to Israeli politicians, as well?

    Israel is bringing hatred upon itself because it has the means to chart a better course.

    It is a democratic country and its citizens also understands what it means to suffer. By not acknowledging the suffering of others, it loses the moral high ground.

  454. 456 Bob in Queensland
    August 24, 2008 at 16:07

    @ Steve

    If your accusation is that the 57 Muslim countries are biased against Israel then there can be no argument. However, citing Al Jazeera bias as an example of how the entire world is against Israel is disingenuous in the extreme. I might as well say that IBA coverage of Hezbollah shows how the world media is against the Palestinians.

  455. 457 Dennis
    August 24, 2008 at 16:09

    @ Zainab:
    Welcome back to the WHYS family, we all missed you and again welcome back!

    @ Jessica in NYC:


  456. 458 selena
    August 24, 2008 at 16:15

    As long as we are talking about Israel let me remind you of the story of Mordecai Vanunu:


    We have finished two weeks of China bashing, conveniently forgetting that every nation silences its critics.

    Do you really fear Iran and North Korea more than any other nation that has nuclear weapons?

  457. 459 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 16:39

    Growing up my parents like having a dog for a pet and us kids loved them. One of the great things about having a dog was that when all else failed the dog blamed for it. The Swedish research team is no different. While researching the possible causes for snoring they decided to blame the dog.


  458. 460 Dennis
    August 24, 2008 at 16:42

    I just saw this story about the Former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom! Margaret Thatcher and that she is dementia….


    [i hope that the family will be in our thoughts and prayers!]


  459. 461 Amy
    August 24, 2008 at 16:52


    So glad to have you back. We’ve missed you! Big hugs from Oregon.

  460. 462 Vijay
    August 24, 2008 at 17:04

    Re:The Olympics Closing ceremony
    The Olympics in London 2012 will cost 1/3rd of the Beijing Olympics.
    I am just glad Mayor of London Boris Johnson didn’t do anything too embarassing.
    I think the London games will be for “everyman” the “street level” “Back to Basics”Games.

  461. 463 Shirley
    August 24, 2008 at 17:08

    Selena: There were many innocent people, other than Jews, who were killed by the Nazis that have been pushed aside by the intense focus on the Jews.

    This does not, of course, take away from the fact that Jewish people were the largest contingency of people to have been slaughtered by the Nazis and simultaneously ignored by the U.S. There was a campaign of hateful propaganda against the Jewish people that was unmatched by what was happening to homosexuals, communists, Romanis, twins, etc. It would be tremendously wrong for us to over-focus on part of the picture while ignoring the whole picture with a perspective like tunnel vision. At the same time, we need to remember that what happened to the Jewish people during the Nazi takeover of Europe was systematic genocide. If we forget, we risk letting it happen again.

    And it has been happening again. Have we indeed forgot?

  462. 464 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 17:20


    I had a grandmother who died from Alzheimer’s. It was not a pretty sight to watch someone who was a vital person turn into a vegetable by the end of their life. When she was in the final stage of the disease the doctors at the nursing home, where we eventually were forced to put her, wanted to put her on life support. Prior to this occurrence there had a family meeting about said possibility. We had all decided against it for a number reasons, mainly quality of life and no cure in sight. Things got really ugly for a short while between the adults in the family and the doctors. One thing I learned was not mess with my Aunt Fran. When the day came that she died it was a huge relief. That is one disease I would not wish on my worst enemy.

  463. 465 Amy
    August 24, 2008 at 17:21

    I’d like everyone to welcome the latest addition to the Oregon Zoo:


    It is a big deal here and everyone is looking forward to seeing him. Luckily, my girls are in zoo camp all next week so I know they will get a peek.

  464. 466 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 17:23

    Hi Everyone,

    I have had my eye on the blog. I have NOT been very loquacious the few past hours, because I have been enthralled with the news programs this morning listening to the analysis of Obama-Biden ticket and the McCain v Obama economic policies to improve our economy.

    @ Zainab, welcome back!

    @ Julie P, funny. Always a good lesson for kinds to learn, blame the escape goat.

    @ all the Oregonians, did you see the article in the Oregonian dem delegates? What did you think?

  465. 467 Venessa
    August 24, 2008 at 17:27

    Zainab ~

    Glad you are back!

  466. 468 Dennis
    August 24, 2008 at 17:27

    @ Julie P:

    About medical problems, after my Late Great-Grandmother had 2 massives strokes [forgive me about the terms], she basically lost of her own memory!

    I know how it is, because! When she passed away on my 23th birthday in 2001, i was pretty torn up by the loss!

    Dennis 😦

  467. 469 Dennis
    August 24, 2008 at 17:30

    @ Amy:

    Thanks for the story!

    August 24, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    Because i LOVE elephants, very much….i have a huge collection….i also have a beautiful stuff elephant that i have in my bed…..

    I hope everyone in Oregon in ENJOYS the new babe

    Dennis 🙂

  468. 470 Amy
    August 24, 2008 at 17:31


    I think the article about the delegates gives a peek into the party as a whole. There are a lot of younger people getting involved which I think overall will reenergize things but then there are still people who have been involved a long time and are quite set in their ways. I think it is happening on the Republican side as well but not to the extent that it is happening with the Democrats. Who knows, maybe we will see a lot of new, young faces next week when the focus moves from Denver to Minneapolis.

  469. 471 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 17:32


    I remember when I was called with the news of grandmother’s death. The first words out of my mouth were: “It’s about time! Good for her, she’s better off.” She had that disease for 15 years that we knew of, so it really is a long good bye and a huge relief to see someone no longer suffering.

  470. 472 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 17:33

    @ Amy:

    The picture of the baby-elephant is too cute. Does this zoo have a good track record of animals breeding? The zoo in Vienna, one of the oldest in Europe, is doing pretty good lately, last year they got a panda-bear baby. Total heartbraker!

    As far as Belgian chocolate is concerned: If we ever manage to get this WHYS-congress organized, I promise I’ll bring a biiiiiiiiiiiiig box. That alone should be bribe enough for Ros to get movin’… 😉

  471. 473 Shirley
    August 24, 2008 at 17:33

    19 June 2008 Middle East Truce (brokered in Egypt)
    Lubna pointed out the BBC news article Truce barely eases Gaza embargo.

    The fact is that Israel has not opened the Gaza borders in accordance with the terms of the 19 June truce agreement, not even for a single day. There were times that they allowed a trickle of humanitarian goods in, but nothing happened that made any beneficial impact on the daily lives of the Palestinian people. One thing that is especially being watched is the number of medical patients who die at the border waiting to be able to leave for better medical care in the West Bank and parts beyond. In the first few days and weeks of the truce, Israel made more violations of the truce in terms of shooting at civilians and in terms of how many they injured or killed.

    Number of words: 148

  472. 474 Venessa
    August 24, 2008 at 17:35

    Dennis & Julie ~

    I worked in skilled nursing & assisted living facilities for a period of time. The last assisted living home I worked in had an Alzheimer’s unit. I watched the deterioration of some families trying to cope with their loved ones. Like Julie, I would not wish this on my worst enemy.

  473. 475 Shirley
    August 24, 2008 at 17:36

    Since that beginning phase, it is my impression that the incidence of Gazan militants who have fired rockets is greater than the incidence of Israeli troops firing upon civilians in Gaza. The results of those violations do not reflect the number of violations, however, in that many more Palestinians have been injured and killed in Gaza by Israeli fire than have Israelis by Gazan rockets. In addition, Israel has continued, increased even, their attacks on the Palestinian people in the West Bank – attacks that each one of them constitutes a breach of international law. Most notable is the firing of Israeli troops upon unarmed peaceful protesters from villages throughout the west Bank who gather each week at the Wall, the raiding of educational, religious, and civic organisations throughout the West Bank by Israeli forces, and the abduction and detention of Palestinians who, as far as I can tell, remain without charges against them and have not seen anything of a judicial process.

    Frustration has been increasing in Gaza. Groups are beginning to question the practicality of continuing to abide by the truce. Someday soon, something is going to give; and all hell will break loose again.

    Number of words: 197

  474. 476 Venessa
    August 24, 2008 at 17:43

    Katharina ~

    With the lure of Belgian chocolate there will be no holding me back from the WHYS congress!

    Zoos: Everytime I go I am excited to see the animals but then have extreme sadness for them living in cages. Have you ever watched the animals? They are bored and look as if they are going insane.

  475. 477 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 17:50

    @ Venessa

    When the animals have a fairly decent habitat, as they have now in Vienna, then you will see them actually move around and they won’t look like they want to shoot themselves the next minute. 15 – 20 years ago, before the zoo in Vienna underwent major restorations, the animals really had this dead look in their eyes. The most pathetic I’ve seen were beluga-wales in Marineland at the Niagara falls, all their fins were rolled up like cigars and they were circling in their pool. I swore to myself that I would never go to such a place again, and so far I didn’t.

  476. 478 nelsoni
    August 24, 2008 at 17:51

    @ Jessnyc

    Hi, There sorry for my late reply

    I am in the GMT +1 time zone,

    I have being stepping in to moderate in your absence
    I am blogging from my PDA, it has some memory issues once posts on
    the blog exceeds a particular number, I can only read/moderate but can’t post
    so for now I will function as an Invisible Mod’ when you need one.

  477. 479 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 17:55


    The zoo in Atlanta was like that when I first moved here. Things were so bad at the zoo that the governing body of it gave them an ultimatum: You have X time to turn this zoo around, or we are shutting it down and relocating the animals. Since then zoo is a much better place for the animals.

  478. 480 selena
    August 24, 2008 at 17:56

    I don’t know what to say about caging animals.

    It is worse than barbaric!

  479. 481 Virginia Davis
    August 24, 2008 at 18:02

    Again, one of the first groups singled out for persecution and death by the Nazis, were the mentally ill. Virginia in Oregon

  480. 482 Venessa
    August 24, 2008 at 18:03

    Katharina ~

    I have seen some habitats that have been well done also. I struggle with my dislike of zoos. For selfish reasons I am happy to have the opportunity to see these amazing creatures but the other part of me realizes that the cages, as well done as they may be, are limiting and cannot compare to where they really should be in their natural habitats.

    One other thing that comes to mind is in particular to the Oregon Zoo. During the summer they have music in the park which is a stage set up in the middle of the zoo surrounded by the elephants, monkeys and other animals. I can’t imagine these animals enjoy whatever genre of music is blaring for 3-4 hours. I’ve been to a couple of the concerts and have decided that I no longer want to be a patron.

  481. 483 Dennis
    August 24, 2008 at 18:42

    @ WHYS Congress

    About bribing Ros!

    We need to send it Mark Sandell and Chloe Tilley!!!!!!!!



  482. 484 Dennis
    August 24, 2008 at 18:43

    @ Virginia:

    People with mental and related disorders! Are always the ones in the line of

    Virginia Davis August 24, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    Again, one of the first groups singled out for persecution and death by the Nazis, were the mentally ill. Virginia in Oregon

  483. 485 nelsoni
    August 24, 2008 at 18:48

    @ Dennis,

    Bribery is illegal

  484. 486 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 18:56

    @ Venessa, Dennis & Julie
    I think dealing with all mortal diseases are hard and some harder. In cases of Alzheimer, as hard as it is on the patient, I wonder if it might be harder on the family to see their loved one lose who they were. Other diseases that are swift, can be very painful and agonizing for the individual. I have never had experience with long term deceases, but many-many with short term painful ones. I read a book a few years ago where the mian character had ALS. Has any one read Tuesdays with Morrie? The author describes with great detail on how the decease will kill Moorie. I think you’re right, long term deceases may give you more time to wrap things up and spend time with the loved one, but it’s too painful.

    @ nelsoni
    No problem and thanks. I let folks know if I am stepping away for more than 30 min. I’m around today. Chocolate not bribery, it’s a negotiations starter. 🙂

    @ Amy
    I saw the story last night and the elephant is very cute. I haven’t been to the zoo since I was a kid, but I’d like to go to one that let’s me touch the animals…some of course. I don’t want any part of the ones that can eat me whole.

    @ Venessa
    Yeah I’m with you. I like to look that these beautiful animals, but it is sad to see them caged up in small places… here are a couple of videos you’ll love of lions.

    1) this lady in colombia recused a baby lion and then gave him to a zoo
    after a few years she went to visit him for the 1st time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk5L6a9xBfI

    2) DId you see the one with Christian the Lion? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRsDrqTBq6Y&feature=related

  485. 487 Dawn
    August 24, 2008 at 19:03

    Hi Jess,

    Hope you’re having fun moderating! I’m going to weigh in on the question I feel most qualified to talk about (and no, it’s not ugly shoes).

    Re. stem cells, it’s great that researchers have found another potential source for them, but this is still just preliminary research, not palpable progress toward treating or curing disease. It won’t be enough to overcome religious objections. For that, there will have to be effective treatments for some of the devastating diseases that scientists hope that stem cell technology will one day cure. When the first person with diabetes can skip daily insulin injections because we grew them a new pancreas or the first kidney patient is freed from dialysis because they were grown a new kidney that is a perfect genetic match, then objections to the technology will crumble.

    However, one of stem cell research’s big liabilities is that it can so easily be linked to cloning, and almost everyone has a visceral negative reaction to cloning. This gives opponents quite strong ammunition against it, so I think it will be a while before the religious objections to it are truly overcome.

  486. 488 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 19:07

    @ Jess

    Yes, I read Tuesdays with Morrie, also Five People You’ll meet in Heaven. Both books are an eye-opener on how to interact with people and make a positive impact.

  487. 489 Venessa
    August 24, 2008 at 19:11

    Jessica ~

    I hadn’t seen those videos. I could have done without the Whitney Houston ballad while watching Christian. 😉 The lion behaved like my kitties after I’m gone for a few days, only they don’t knock me over when they want to cuddle.

  488. 490 Shirley
    August 24, 2008 at 19:13

    Venessa: Have you ever watched the animals? They are bored and look as if they are going insane.

    It’s not just looks. They are going insane.One of the signs of insanity in animals such as cats is circular pacing. If there is not enough room to move in a circle, then the cat will pace back and forth. Usually, though, the cat will pace about in a circle if it is insane.

    I have seen so many cats pacing in circles in zoos and so-called conservatories. There is no excuse. We have the knowledge of how to maintain the physical and mental health of our animals, even when they are in captivity. We should be spending the money that it takes to keep their minds as healthy as we try to keep their bodies healthy.

    Btw, does anyone remember the link to the reunion between the lions and the two men who raised him?

    Number of words: 156

  489. 491 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 24, 2008 at 19:14

    i should have to rephrase my comments: we can bribe Ros with Chocolate, that is not illegal, except if you are under a doctor orders not to have chocolate! for medical problems…..


  490. 492 Venessa
    August 24, 2008 at 19:18

    Shirley ~ I can’t agree with you more. Quite honestly I think zoos need to be done away with and only be open for animals that need rehabilitation or can’t survive any longer on their own in the wild.

  491. 493 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 19:24

    Venessa, that’s one serious issue with zoos: quite a number of species are going quickly extinct outside and only through breeding them in zoos will we be able to still admire their beauty. Where do you think polar bears will survive once the icecap has melted?

  492. 494 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 19:28

    @ chocolate

    I should rephrase my comment above, because chocolate is NOT BRIBE! Especially chocolate that melts in your mouth, full and creamy, with a hint of something else or some nuts or something crispy, the right size to put it piece by piece into your mouth, of the type that you only need two or three a day because they are so rich that you actually don’t even want more than that… yum! Chocolate is just… delicious! (Ros, do you read that? 😉 )

  493. 495 Venessa
    August 24, 2008 at 19:37

    Kathrina ~

    The point you make about zoos is the exact reason I struggle so much with my distaste for them. I do realize there are species that may not survive outside of them, but for the most part look at who’s at fault for that.

  494. 496 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 19:40

    Venessa: Our fault, of course. Humans are the eleventh plague of this planet. Months ago I mentioned this one silly joke on the blank page: Two planets meet in the universe. Says one planet: “Hi, how are you doing?” Says the other: “Not good, I have homo sapiens.” Says the first:”Don’t worry, this will pass…”

  495. 497 Amy
    August 24, 2008 at 19:42


    You are tormenting me with your chocolate descriptions!! I remember being in Belgium (many years ago) and I tried to take some home with me. Needless to say, it didn’t even make it into the suitcase. Hopefully the WHYS staff are chocolate fans and the thought of Belgian chocolate from you will help move the congress idea along 🙂

  496. 498 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 19:44


    That was the plan, hehehehe! What does one have to do to get a congress around here???

  497. 499 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 24, 2008 at 19:49


    I think that Kathi in Ghent, is tormenting me also about the chocolate descriptions!!!!

    But i have to say this, i LOVE all of my friends…..




  498. 500 Venessa
    August 24, 2008 at 19:49

    Katharina ~ I like the joke!

    Um, if you persuade us to come to Belgium you better make sure you have room. I just might stay for the chocolate! My husband can come visit me when he sees fit or I’ll go home when he finishes the house remodel…hehehehhe! 😉

  499. 501 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 19:52

    @ all: if you take turns, I have plenty of room! And the nearest store with chocolate is about 10 min. walk, just enough to walk off half a piece… Seeya!

  500. 502 Dennis
    August 24, 2008 at 19:53


    To answer Kathi in Ghent question:

    **August 24, 2008 at 7:44 pm**

    That was the plan, hehehehe! What does one have to do to get a congress around here???

    i may have an idea, since you are a moderator….i will send the information.

    Dennis 😉

  501. 503 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 19:57

    @ Dawn, thanks for sharing your expertise.

    Re. stem cells, yes it’s preliminary research, but gives me hope that this kind of research will lead to the prove that this science is capable of curing decease and not just theory. As you point out science biggest liability is the religious visceral negative reaction to cloning. I don’t know how we can legislate to advance science without the treat of the ethical dilemmas. Cloning a whole human should not (should I use the world never instead?) be the target, but I can’t help to want science to be able to cure cancer. There are theories that claim human cloning is already underway by various governments.

    I look forward to the day when the when as you put it, the first person with diabetes can skip daily insulin injections because we grew them a new pancreas… then objections to the technology will crumble. Hope it happens before I die and can take advantage of it.

    As far as shoes are concern, you’re my shoe-hero. You can run around NYC/NJ in pretty shoes far longer than I can.

  502. 504 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 20:04

    @WHYS Congress
    Maybe Selena can bring wine to wash the chocolate down with… I’ll bring cheesecake, after call NYC has the best the world.

    Now I can’t stop thinking about chocolate. Moderate for me please, I’m going out to buy some. This is NYC, we have everything… even Belgian chocolate. 🙂

    @ Shirley
    I listed the link of Christian, the lion raised by two Englishmen and released in Africa in my previous post.

    @ Vanessa
    Me too! Forgot to warn you, I put my laptop on mute.

  503. 505 Venessa
    August 24, 2008 at 20:04

    I am all for stem cell research. The reality is that no matter what legislation you put on scientific discovery people with poor ethics will still be a part of the teams conducting experiments. When a break through is finally discovered my hope is it will not be used for ill intentions.

  504. 506 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 20:08

    @ Vanessa

    That is the problem… How do we advance the field of stem cell research while limiting it’s scope? I know it’s not the same ethical issue, but is the atomic bomb a good example of this dilemma?

  505. 507 Roberto
    August 24, 2008 at 20:22

    Israel is bringing hatred upon itself because it has the means to chart a better course.

    ———– Easy to say when you are not surrounded by a sea of hatred outnumbering you 50-1.

    Let’s see who’s up to the challenge: What can Israel and Palestine do to chart a better course?

    I’ll take a first swing at what the Pals can do:

    1. Stop the civil war and make the peace with each other.

    2. Pass a resolution recognizing Israel and re-establish peace negotiations.

    3. Ask the US, EU, and UN to negotiate an internationally recognized Palestinian state with the Israelis as close to the 2000 agreement Arafat squelched as possible.

    4. Accept that you can never get as good a deal as before, and sign on the dotted line this time.

    5. Ask the EU, UN, US to negotiate with surround Arab states for full citizenship status for refugees in those countries.

    Of course, this is as likely as us picking our pies of choice out of the sky whenever we wish, but hey, back in 2000 Pals at the front door but refused to knock, instead blowing themselves up.

    How you gonna stop a suicide cult of death?

  506. 508 Venessa
    August 24, 2008 at 20:25

    Jessica ~

    I wish I knew. Humans are flawed and many are out to get ahead or find what is only in their best interest. I don’t know that there is a way to weed these people out and limit the range of research. At some point I guess you look at the risks vs. benefits and hope it doesn’t go wrong along the way. Pandora’s box has been opened on stem cell research; I have no doubt that “unethical” investigation (whatever that is) continues without our knowledge.

    Discoveries cannot be unlearned and may very well lead to the destruction of the human race at some point. Regardless all the protesting in the world will not suspend scientific advancement.

  507. 509 selena
    August 24, 2008 at 20:31


    I’ll bring the wine…

    Just got back from a walk to the Seine.

    It is not warm tonight.

  508. 510 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 20:46

    @WHYS Congress,

    So Katharina will supply the chocolate, since Belgium makes the best, bar none. Jess will bring the cheesecake since the best comes from NY, although don’t tell my mom. She is convinced her’s is next godliness. I’ll bring the sweet Georgia peaches, if I can get them through customs.

  509. 512 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 20:56

    @Vanessa– point taken. Since this research is probably happening with out our consent or direct knowledge, I think we should try and regulate it since the world will not suspend scientific advancement and discoveries cannot be unlearned.

    @Selena– that

    @ Katharina– Great joke.

  510. 513 Jamily5
    August 24, 2008 at 20:58

    About chocolate:
    From what I understand, the reason that US chocolate does not taste as decadent as Belgium and Swiss chocolate is that we use more vegetable oil and less of the pure cocoa butter.
    Our chocolate is less chocolate and more of the other ingredients.
    Now, of course, some is due to the bean (there are three types, I think) and maturing and roasting factors.
    But, I did read an article where Hershey and the Mars company: among others tried to persuade the FDA to allow them to put even more oils in their chocolate and less actual cocoa.
    I do like all chocolate, but have to admit that Swiss chocolate had a distinctive wonderful taste and it would have been easy to get hooked.
    I do so enjoy European chocolate!!!

  511. 514 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 21:01


    One time I was flipping around the channels and I came across a show documenting her American Life tour. Until that documentary I never had a firm opinion of her, other than I could take her or leave, then I had one. That woman is hell on wheels.

  512. 515 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 21:01

    @ Hillary not being considered for veep:

    McCain ad says Obama snubbed Clinton in VP pick

    I think so, too.

    McCain’s folks did a good job this today at fueling the fire for Clinton’s supporters. There are only been two senators in US History to go from the senate to the Presidency, the last one was JFK.

    Obama picked another senator?

  513. 516 Katharina in Ghent
    August 24, 2008 at 21:03

    @ Selena:

    Yes, please bring the wine, because the French are so greedy and don’t send us the good stuff, they drink it all themselves (just kidding)…

    About Madonna in Wales: What can I say, this woman is one of the riches people in the world, so “naturally” her expectations are a little higher. I guess she tries very hard to forget where she came from.

  514. 517 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 21:22

    @ Jamily5

    I don’t know or what to fiind out how chocolate is made. I agree in general European chocolate is better. Since NYC is lucky enough to have people and shops with things shipped from every corner of the world, we actually get the authentic “good stuff” imported. It’s very common in NYC with it’s diverse populations to have specialty markets with stocked good from a specific region. I went to the Euro market down a few blocks away, it was a bit more expensive, but I got the Belgium Chocolate I wanted.

    @ Julie P

    I love Georgia peaches! Once, when I was a kid I did not know we could not bring fruit with seeds into the US from Mexico until I was at a customs check point and the agent discovered I had placed mangos in each of my short’s pockets, one inside my drinking cup and two inside my little purse.

  515. August 24, 2008 at 21:26

    Is it me or did the attack and “non issue” ads come out of the McCain camp awfully fast. I mean were there really people on the salary who sat there and made up negative ads for whoever the candidate had picked?

    Here in Ohio some friends and I have been discussing the fact that we have seen almost no Obama ads. All we have seen are McCain sponsored ads where he doesn’t say a thing about what he plans to do, just what Obama has done. I would like to think with all of his “Experience” McCain would be introducing America to all the bills he has introduced or supported that lead to lower unemployment, stronger dollar, well funded Social Security, safer national security, better foreign relations, or less expensive education. Why hasn’t he highlighted any of these successes?

  516. 519 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 21:27

    @ Julie P

    Mom’s home cooking rarely compare to anything else.

  517. 520 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 21:36

    @ Dwight from Cleveland

    You’re right. The McCain camp had these ads ready. You can’t put something like that together in a couple of hours. it was a safe bet that Hillary wasn’t going to be picked and he is trying to gain those disgruntled Clinton supporters.

    If you saw any of today’s morning new talk shows most of McCain’s spokes people were top women in his campaign analyzing Obama’s choice to pick Biden.

    Right now the polls show McCain trailing Obama 2-4% with a 3% error of margin. So he just needs to fuel the fire. Hardball on MSNBC right now is showcasing people who are undecided.

  518. 521 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 21:38

    McCain’s experience will come back into play when he announces his veep. Right now he is trying to gain moment and close the gap between him and Obama. Attack ads are a very successful way to go that.

  519. 522 Shirley
    August 24, 2008 at 22:06

    Jess, thank you for the link to Christian the lion and his reunion with the men who raised him. I saw it on TV, and it was so touching.

  520. 523 Shirley
    August 24, 2008 at 22:07


    Virginia, thank you. I knew that I was missing something.

  521. 524 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 22:30

    ************* To all WHYSers**************

    As many of you go to bed and to those who are already asleep, thank you for spending your weekend with me commenting on issues from around the world and the ones local to me that concern us. I had a great time moderating and getting to know all of you. If I ever moderate again, I promise to not be so focused on Obama/McCain, laundry or shoes.

    A special thanks to the wonderful group who lent a hand and an eye to moderate this weekend.

    Best Regards,
    Jessica in NYC

    ———–People in North, Central or South America, what’s happening in your area? We still have a few hours before our day is over.

  522. 525 kpellyhezekiah
    August 24, 2008 at 22:52

    I’ve said time and again that obama lacks the necessary experience to steer the US in this delicate times especially on foreign policy, The same position was bush and so he chose cheney as his vice but it just didn’t work. See the mess he has put the whole world and I’ve just read a comment by somebody that the taleban are winning the war. Bush’s whole approach to solve the issues arising out of sept.11 are misguided, and I am afraid with obama selecting biden(thinking he would rely on the man’s experience in foreign policy) will also backfire. This is like the case of a driver who is just not well trained in driving and hoping to use the service of an assistant to steer the truck when it becomes difficult. The democrats chosen the right man at the wrong time. To me the obama /biden ticket is just like the bush /cheney ticket. It just won’t work. The man at the steer must have thorough broad knowledge in all spheres like bill clinton. I won’t be surprise if the republicans win this elections again. I pity the democrats.

  523. 526 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 23:04

    Many people agree with you on yesterday’s discussion that an Obama-Biden ticket is not a good one. We’ll see how democrats feel this week at the convention in Denver. Why do you think McCain be a better choice?

  524. 527 kpellyhezekiah
    August 24, 2008 at 23:13

    mccain just has the experience to navigate the international waters that bush has made very mudy.

  525. 528 jessnyc
    August 24, 2008 at 23:25

    And domestically?

  526. 529 selena
    August 24, 2008 at 23:32

    In my opinion what happens domestically is a direct result of foreign policy.

  527. 530 steve
    August 24, 2008 at 23:34

    @ Katharina

    Do you know of Waremme, which is near Liege?

  528. 531 kpellyhezekiah
    August 24, 2008 at 23:36

    mcCain’s main weakness is in economics but since the downward pressure that the US economy is experiencing now is basically due to its financing of the war in iraq and not necessarily a reduction in production of goods and services. The end of the iraq and afghanistan misadventures will do the corrections which will be in the interest of the whole world because all economies are feeling the pinch of this misguided and ill-informed method of combating the alcaeda and its offshoots who think they can use terror to achieve their aims and aspirations. I don’t want to pre-empt the man mr. mcCaian but I think he is going to use one of the simple methods available to stop the alcaeda and co in their tracks. And its all because he has the experience like biden in foreign affairs. He just knows what to do.

  529. 532 Dennis
    August 24, 2008 at 23:38

    @ WHYS Congress:
    All of the food, will put on weight on my waist! 🙂

    @ Homecooking:
    i have a grandma who is a good cook….


  530. 533 kpellyhezekiah
    August 24, 2008 at 23:42

    jessnyc. selena is right. Just ask your finance minister(secretary) to take out the cost of the war in afghanistan and iraq from your(US) budget and you’d see the clear picture of the cost of putting the wrong man in the right place

  531. 534 steve
    August 24, 2008 at 23:44

    The australians killed that whale that thought a boat was its mother.


  532. 535 kpellyhezekiah
    August 24, 2008 at 23:50

    and to help you in europe and the US africa is being bled economically again. A typical example is the forcing of the ghana government to sell ghana telecom which is a viable/profitable and money making state enterprise to vodaphone in europe in a deal that if it were done in the US would land bush straight in jail. How long shall we(africa) continue to carry you on our shoulders/head. the shamble vodaphone deal will not last and people will certainly be going to jail for it. Go to africa have your say site on the bbc and see what I’m talking about.

  533. 536 kpellyhezekiah
    August 24, 2008 at 23:52

    see u tomorrow, selena

  534. 537 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 23:54


    I offered to bring Georgia peaches, so not all of the food on the WHYS buffet is fattening. In fact, I’ll go so far as to say my contribution is quite healthful and delicious!

  535. 538 Julie P
    August 24, 2008 at 23:59


    I am not sure how Georgia got the reputation it has for peaches, really the state’s main crops are peanuts, and Vidalia onions, probably marketing for state tourism. South Carolina is the real peach state. Now THEY have mouth watering peaches the size of softballs that are meaty, sweet and juicy. Yum!

  536. 539 steve
    August 25, 2008 at 00:03

    Biden’s own words about Obama and Mccain.

  537. 540 selena
    August 25, 2008 at 00:09

    Good night Kpelly!

  538. August 25, 2008 at 00:12


    It is not quite as easy as just ending the war. Say all those people come back to the states. Many of the reservists had jobs that are now not there because of the economic down turn. Others have been filed by people temporally. They will become unemployed when the vet returns. There are companies who make supplies for wars such as ammo, protection, and vehicles. Demand for those products will drop and people in those business will have to seek other employment.

    I am no fan of this war, and would chose to end it yesterday if I could. I am just saying anybody looking for an economic bounce because we stop pumping money into the cause is missing the whole scope of things.

  539. 542 Dennis
    August 25, 2008 at 00:23

    @ Julie P:

    Read your private email! Cute!
    Regarding PEACHES! I think that they are nice! .
    Dinosaur Bar-BQ food from Syracuse, New York


  540. August 25, 2008 at 00:25

    At Obama’s foreign policies.

    Obama has made a few assertions that he was ridiculed and criticized by the Republicans as well as his own community. He said we should sit down and talk with those that the Bush administration has deemed our “enemies”. recently direct talks with North Korea have yielded huge advancements in our relations. Bush begged the Iranians to come to the table a few weeks ago and they all but refused outright.

    He said we should pressure Pakistan. The republicans called Pakistan an ally of the war on terror. Pervez Musharraf recently stepped down fearing corruption charges, and the administration hailed it as a step towards democracy.

    Obamma said we should set a timetable for troop withdrawal in Iraq. A statement he was chastised and berated for by every high level member of the Bush machine. Now they are trying to secure one before GW has to move back to Texas. A move that, coincidence or not, did not come about until after Obama visited with the Iraqis president.

    Then there was the fact that he thought the intelligence was lacking on the push to war to begin with.

    What good is experience in foreign policy if you end up being wrong all of the time?

  541. 544 Julie P
    August 25, 2008 at 00:29


    Maniacal laugh!

  542. 545 jessnyc
    August 25, 2008 at 00:38

    I’m back from dinner. Thanks for help moderating.

  543. 547 Julie P
    August 25, 2008 at 00:41


    Good job with moderating this weekend! Last weekend got to 550 comments. I think you are going to surpass that figure.

  544. 548 jessnyc
    August 25, 2008 at 00:42


    McCain said few days ago that the “fundamentals of our economy are strong” and has made it clear we will stay in Iraq as long as necessary. The money being spent on Iraq isn’t going to help us domestically. It’s absolutely true that foreign policy has a big impact domestically, but McCain has similar policies to Bush if not exact duplicate so it will do nothing for us internationally. Even though Obama’s lacks in foreign policy experience is clear from his trips abroad that the international community want change.

  545. 549 jessnyc
    August 25, 2008 at 00:45

    @ Julie P
    It’s always the marketing. I once has a peach from SC but it was tasteless, it might have been the wrong season for them.

  546. 550 jessnyc
    August 25, 2008 at 00:46

    @ Dennis

    Eating these kinds of food in moderation, won’t add to your waist line 🙂

  547. 551 Julie P
    August 25, 2008 at 00:46


    I buy SC peaches in August and September. That’s when they are at their peak and their best. Of course, when I drive through the state I buy peaches right at the peach orchard.

  548. 552 Dennis
    August 25, 2008 at 00:53

    @ jessnyc

    i forgot to mentioned that : i have a tummy anyway…so eating this kind of food doesn’t bother me!


  549. 553 jessnyc
    August 25, 2008 at 00:54

    @ Julie P

    Nice, if only SC was closer. I will go to a couple of farmers markets looking for SC Peaches since you recommend them so highly…. and thanks for all your input, we had a excellent group this weekend.

  550. 554 Dennis
    August 25, 2008 at 00:55


    we already went over the 550 comments already and we are going to do a new record!

    Dennis 🙂

  551. 555 jessnyc
    August 25, 2008 at 00:59

    *********Everyone, I have to get ready for the week. I will be moderating (approving comments only) until 10 PM EST, but will not be sitting in front of my laptop.

    Thanks! Any mods out there, feel free to help out.

    @ Dennis 🙂 isn’t there a saying that a full belly makes a happy heart?

  552. 556 Venessa
    August 25, 2008 at 01:05

    Thanks for hosting Jessica!

  553. 557 Dennis
    August 25, 2008 at 01:13

    @ Jessica:

    It is true that a full belly makes a happy heart!

    Thanks for hosting this BLANK PAGE!!!

    I hope you enjoy yourself….


  554. 558 jessnyc
    August 25, 2008 at 01:18

    Thanks V & Dennis!

  555. 559 Bob in Queensland
    August 25, 2008 at 03:20

    G’day all (and good night Jessica–good weekend!)

    I’m still reading in but one thought–I suspect at least one of the WHYS team can be better bribed with beer than chocolate. Fortunately, Belgium is also second-to-none in this area and I even know a great bar or two in Ghent. One of them has literally hundreds of the best of Belgium and, because many are served in exotic glasses, it has a metal basket on a rope hanging in the middle of the ceiling. When you get one of the “stealable” glasses, you have to put one of your shoes in the basket and you don’t get it back until you return the glass!

  556. 560 Jamily5
    August 25, 2008 at 04:06

    Hey, I to stay away from the topic of “chocolate.”
    And… …
    since Hoosiers are crazy about basketball, I’ll bring the basketballs: you can play off the chocolate.
    My only other option is … … corn.
    I would love to bring An Indy500 car: but, I would want to drive it also.

  557. 561 jessnyc
    August 25, 2008 at 04:19

    Good Morning to you, Bob,

    Ha, I could argue that Mexican beer is excellent (Corona, Tecate and Modelo), but I have tasted Belgium beer. There’s this bar here in NY where the only serve belgium beer–about 20 to 30 varieties of it! It’s a dive in the village. Good beer.

    In exchange for moving WHYS congress along:
    -Belgium Beer
    -French Wine
    -NY Cheesecake
    -Belgium Chocolate
    -Georgia Peaches

    I am getting ready to call it a day and thought I’d stop in to make sure there were any comments waiting to be posted. BYE!

  558. 562 jessnyc
    August 25, 2008 at 04:26

    @ Jamily5

    You lost me at the Indy500 car thing… does it come in different flavors? LOL

    As far as the basketballs, you can bring them, but I don’t play. However, I’m a fantastic heckler. I could distract the team we want to lose.

    Good night!

  559. 563 Amy
    August 25, 2008 at 04:27


    I love that they make you put your shoe in the bucket. Had that happened to me many years ago in Germany, maybe I wouldn’t have ended up with a bunch of glasses. My parents were not pleased when I told them it was their souvenir 🙂

    I am trying to figure out what I could bring from Oregon. We have marionberries and hazelnut so maybe we could bring that. Our wines are too shabby either so maybe I could bring some for comparison taste testing with the selections Selena brings. I am hoping maybe Vanessa, Virginia or Mike can come up with ideas as well.

  560. 564 Shirley
    August 25, 2008 at 04:30

    Welcome, Bob. My gratitude to your wife for adding to our little project, and to you for typing it in (or modding it in). It was so cool to see our own dictionary of international greetings grow.

  561. 565 jessnyc
    August 25, 2008 at 04:31

    @ AMY lol—it is a great shoe story. good night, this time for real.

  562. 566 Bob in Queensland
    August 25, 2008 at 04:45

    @ Jamily5

    I’m not sure about your Indycar ambitions—Belgium is very much in the Formula 1 camp. In fact, the next Grand Prix (in two weeks time) is there at the Spa Francochamps track.

  563. 567 Bob in Queensland
    August 25, 2008 at 04:58

    Hmmm…not sure what I should bring from Australia. Wines are the obvious choice because we have some very good ones–new world wines tend to be more to my taste than many of the French ones. However, the French seem to have got in first!

    The obvious choice would be some of the tropical and semi tropical fruit around here. Near me they grow pineapples, mangoes, lots of melons, avocadoes, etc. The “state nut” here is the Macadamia which is good–but I have a feeling customs might confiscate most fresh fruit and veg from outside the EU.

    Maybe I should just find refrigerated transport and send you some Aussie seafood. Anybody ever tried “Morton bay bugs”? Delicious! (Despite the name, they’re sort of a salt water crayfish.)

  564. 568 Amy
    August 25, 2008 at 05:53


    Bring some Australian wines and we can compare, maybe some vegimite. I am trying to remember the chocolate cookies my friend always bring back from visiting her family in Brisbane. All I remember is you bite the ends off of them and and then use it like a straw for your coffee. The chocolate melts a little as you drink….. I wish I could remember the name of the cookies! If this comes to pass, I’ll make sure to ask her.

  565. 569 Bob in Queensland
    August 25, 2008 at 06:26

    @ Amy

    Those would be “Tim Tams”, an iconic Australian brand. You’re right…using them like a straw is delicious!

  566. 570 Zainab
    August 25, 2008 at 07:33

    Hello all my friends,
    thanks to all of you WHYS family especially Dennis, dear Amy how are you and your lovely daughters? My love Jessnyc,and Venessa.how are you all?
    About science: Are you noticing the strange repetition of Space phenomena? almost every year we have lunar and solar eclipses. this month, we witnessed them both. Moreover, the appearance of some planets at the sky, like Jupiter, Mercury, Mars, Venus. We can see them clearly by the eyes. even now every day i see a planet before sunset. it is very clear and very big.
    All these planets appear very big, and very near from the earth? is there any explanation for all this? cuz in my life i didn’t see such a thing, it is maybe with the beginning of the new millennium, these phenomena started.
    by the way i heard that next year (insha Allah) in June, we’ll be able to see one planet (I think Mars) as big as the moon.

    (Subhan Allah!!) means Hallelujah
    yours truly,
    Zainab from Iraq

  567. 571 Tom
    August 25, 2008 at 07:57

    @ Shirley,

    About the Tibet Olympic team, nothing much has been written about it apart from a news article I read in an Australian newspaper.

    Cadel Evans to meet Tibetan team

    I think it’s just a symbolic gathering of athletes from the Tibetan exile community around the world. They are there to differentiate themselves from the Chinese Olympic team, which technically is inclusive to ethnic Tibetans, and any other ethnic minorities, with Chinese citizenship.

    Re: “how are you”

    I don’t find that it’s customary in Chinese to ask someone “how are you?” as part of a greeting the way that English people do. When we care about someone, we’ll ask how that person is as we’d really want to know about it. Whereas English people may say it casually or out of professional duties even though he/she may have no genuine interest in knowing about the life of others.

    My French teacher said to me that she too was surprised that English people use “how are you?” in such casual manner. Her reaction was that why would a stranger want to know how she is.

  568. 572 Tom
    August 25, 2008 at 08:20

    @ Shirley,

    hello: ni hao (nee how) *
    my name is Ling Ling: “wo jiao Ling Ling”
    you’re welcome: “bu ke qi”

    Welcome is “kuan ying”.

    Since food is such a vital part of social life, it’s also very common to hear people greeting each other by asking if they’ve eaten yet – “ni chi liao ba?” – it’s akin to saying “what’s up?”.

  569. 573 Bob in Queensland
    August 25, 2008 at 08:25

    @ Tom

    “How are you?”

    My French isn’t perfect but my experience is that they do use the “Comment allez-vous?” (literally “how are you going?”) as part of a greeting relatively often–perhaps not as much as in English and maybe reserved a bit more for people you know, but it is there.

    Or, for a more colloquial greeting you often get “Ca marche?” (literally “it goes?” but I interpret it as “How’s it going?). The standard reply is generally a French shrug and “Oui, ca marche”. The alternative to the off-hand “ca marche” is a 20 minute litany of all perceived ailments…also common!

    (Not truly fluent but I learned enough to get by when I used to have a ram-shackle old farm house in Brittany.)

  570. 574 Bryan
    August 25, 2008 at 08:54

    Haven’t had much time and haven’t read all the comments but thought I’d tie up a loose thread or two (pun intended).

    Jessnyc – thanks for getting back to me re air time TV stations are obliged to be fair about when covering US elections. Be fascinating if BBC TV had no such requirement to give UK politicians fair exposure prior to an election. It certainly seems that they don’t.

    Yes, I agree that the joke about Obama in the White House is weak and, as Katherina pointed out, very old, but I thought my “Barracks” Obama joke on August 23, 2008 at 12:50 pm wasn’t such a poor attempt. At first I thought Bob’s “Baroque” Obama was better, but now I’m disagreeing with myself.

    On August 23, 2008 at 2:29 pm you addressed a comment to Roberto that I think might have been meant for me about not having seen any pro-Palestinian coverage in US media around where you lived.

    I was talking about the big names with international reach like the New York Times, CNN, Time and Newsweek. These all lean in sympathy towards the Palestinians. Time, in fact, defamed Ariel Sharon over Sabra and Shatilla. He sued and won the case, in a New York court, I believe.

  571. 575 Bryan
    August 25, 2008 at 08:57

    Shirley August 24, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    You are absolutely right about the Jews being the main focus of the Holocaust and that there was “systematic genocide” of the Jews, but I’m curious to Know who this refers to:

    “If we forget, we risk letting it happen again.
    And it has been happening again. Have we indeed forgot?”

    Rwanda, of course, was an example of genocide. And the Khartoum regime has been practicing what doesn’t seem far short of genocide on the African people of Darfur.

    selena August 24, 2008 at 10:30 am

    “Israel was founded on appeasement!”

    Well we have heard on this forum that Israel came about through terrorism, something I strongly disagree with, but “appeasement” is a new one on me. I wonder who these people were who felt they had to “appease” the Jews and how they went about it. It certainly wasn’t the British, who, despite their Mandate, were doing all they could to strangle the nascent state.

    “I am truly sorry if I offend your sensibilities.” I appreciate that but we are not talking about me here. When we start implying that Jews should not feel that they were singled out during the Holocaust because others were also murdered and that the Israelis are now doing a similar thing then we enter Holocaust denial territory.

    Perhaps people who are keen to make comparisons to the Nazis would like to have a look at my comment on August 24, 2008 at 6:04 am. There is much material there for the enquiring mind.

    Katharina in Ghent August 24, 2008 at 8:35 am

    Yes, your comment is accurate, and I agree that the general public in Germany could not have known the details and extent of the Holocaust. That information would have been in the hands of the top dogs who had the statistics of the numbers of Jews killed. But it’s not true to say they didn’t know what was going on. For example, the Police battalions that rampaged through Poland on their killing sprees were comprised mostly of older, family men who were unfit for military service. The majority of them were neither Nazis nor members of the SS. They were able to return to their families on “leave’ from the bloodbath. They were also able to opt out of the killing. Very few did.

    Goldhagen, who I mentioned on August 24, 2008 at 5:46 am makes a compelling case against the idea of the innocence of ordinary Germans.

  572. 576 Bryan
    August 25, 2008 at 09:52

    I see I made an error on August 24, 2008 at 5:46 am:
    “….the Germans slaughtered close to a million Jews during the Holocaust” should of course read “close to six million Jews.”

    Roberto on August 24, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    “I regret certain Israeli supporters are overzealous in their support for Israel, but these cases would have to look elsewhere for their compulsive disorders…”

    I guess you are referring mostly to Steve and myself here. Why don’t you make that clear? Of course there would no need to be “overzealous” if Israel were not under constant propaganda attack worldwide. You should also try to steer clear of the pop psychology. “Compulsive disorders?” I don’t appreciate being psychoanalysed on the internet by people who know nothing about me.

  573. 577 Katharina in Ghent
    August 25, 2008 at 09:59

    @ Steve

    No I’ve never been to Waremme, I haven’t ventured much into the eastern parts of Belgium yet. (Wow, this actually gives this country some dimension!)

    @ Bob:

    You sure enjoyed the “Waterhuis aan de Bierkant”! (= Waterhouse on the Beershore) I didn’t want to mention Belgian beer because it’s too heavy to bring larger amounts and out of sensitivity to our Muslim friends on the blog. But I can bring a few, if you think that London doesn’t have good beer to offer.

  574. 578 Katharina in Ghent
    August 25, 2008 at 10:07

    @ Bryan

    I didn’t say that they didn’t know at all what happened to Jews, all I said was that they didn’t know exactly, because it’s not like the details were published in the “Volkssturm” or some other daily newspaper. Of course, enough civilians were involved in the killings and also ordinary soldiers, who afterwards claimed for many years that they had anything to do with Babi Yar and the likes… until old pictures were found that proved the exact opposite. These killings didn’t involve German Jews, so the Nazis could probably make the case that they killed “Jewish Communists”. (“We don’t make any prisoners.” )

    There were plenty of rumors going around, for sure, but I want to stress this point again: the organized mass killings in the concentration camps only started somewhen around 1941, the Wannseer Konferenz was in January 1942 where the “endsolution” of the Jewish question was decided upon. Soon after the tide of the war was turning around and the German armies started loosing battles and bombs started falling onto German cities, and then the ordinary people had other things on their minds than those Jewish neighbours that had been “relocated to the East”…

  575. 579 Katharina in Ghent
    August 25, 2008 at 10:23

    @ Bryan again

    I should probably add that killing Non-German Jews was just as horrible, but I believe that the ordinary Germans knew very little of the scope these events.

  576. 580 Robert Evans
    August 25, 2008 at 10:39

    Katharina my nan has come though both world wars. If it was me I dont think I would have but I agree that it was an insane action by the Germans

  577. 581 Bryan
    August 25, 2008 at 11:16

    Well, Katherina, you obviously know your subject, but perhaps you should get hold of the book. It’s very dense and scholarly and has a vast and comprehensive section of notes and references and is written in mostly in a dry and academic fashion so it’s not an easy read. But then, it’s not an easy subject.

  578. 582 Robert Evans
    August 25, 2008 at 11:59

    Bryan of course this subject is not an easy read. This is because the hollocuse was caused by the Gernans who killed millions of jewish people. Now dont think that I am aganst Germans because I have some German friends and we get along very well.

  579. 583 Katharina in Ghent
    August 25, 2008 at 12:14

    @ Robert

    Hey, I never said that the Nazis were even remotely right in their mind. IMO, completely insane would be a more accurate descrition. I just don’t like this general accusation of “the Germans”, because while these were actions of not just a few but quite a number of people, “the Germans” are not bad people in general and also weren’t back then.

  580. 584 Tom
    August 25, 2008 at 13:01

    @ Bob,

    The impression I got from the use of “comment allez-vous?” or “comment vas-tu?” is used more between two friends or two aquaintances, as oppose to being liberally and loosely used such as by a supermarket check-out attendant saying it while busy packing a customer’s shoppings. It is in the latter situation where the greeting was used in such impersonal manner that my French teacher found odd when she initially came to Australia.

    Even for me after migrating to Australia the initial use of this greeting at work when speaking to complete strangers was something requiring getting used to. Now it just come to me as a part of the Aussie linguo and a reflection of its generally warm social culture, along with the use of “mate” (pronounced “my-aite”) to anyone. Would this be the same as in the UK or the US?

    Mon francais n’est marche pas bien. J’ai l’appris depuis dix mois et je suis encore un débutant! Ce me plait beaucoup quand meme. 😛

  581. 585 Robert Evans
    August 25, 2008 at 13:28

    @ Katharina

    I appologise to you but I think you misunderstood my post. I ment the Nazis where evil and there is frankly no question about that but I ment that I have friends in Germany

    I appologise again


  582. 586 Katharina in Ghent
    August 25, 2008 at 13:54

    @ Robert

    Don’t worry, I wasn’t offended, and I don’t think that I misunderstood you. I just don’t like generalizations. (BTW, I’m also not directly involved because I’m from Austria, but enough – or rather too many – Austrians were commiting horrible things during this time, with Hitler and Eichmann being two of the very worst.)

  583. 587 Charlie
    August 25, 2008 at 14:20

    Obama was right. And that is that.

  584. 588 Robert Evans
    August 25, 2008 at 14:27

    Katharina can we move on to a different subject

  585. 589 Venessa
    August 25, 2008 at 15:21

    We have good beer in Oregon too! We can compare it to the Belgian although I already have to say I prefer ours….

  586. 590 Shirley
    August 25, 2008 at 16:51

    Hello Around the World
    At least 15 languages got some kind of introduction over the week-end. Xie xie, gracias, asante sana, thank you.

    Tom, you mentioned that Chinese people generally don’t do the “how are you” questions unless they areally want an answer. That has me curious, because I had learned that ni hao ma was asking how are you. Can you explain, please? Thank you. Also, in Korean, there is a way of speaking to a man, especially an older one, in which one has to preface nearly everything that one says with a word that begins with d. I don’t remember much else beyond that. Is there something similar in Chinese?

  587. 591 natalie sara
    August 25, 2008 at 18:16

    @ tom

    welcome is ‘huan ying’ and not ‘kuan ying’ !

    the french is all right.

    i’m a chinese who lived in paris before!

  588. 592 Tom
    August 26, 2008 at 03:24

    @ Shirley,

    The difference between “ni hao ma?” and “how are you?” is that the first question is closed whereas the second one is open – “Are you well?” vs “How are you?”.

    If I take them literally I don’t see the two greetings as the same. The second one, when phrased in Chinese, eg “ni chen yang ah?”, is more personal like “How have you been?”. “ni hao ma?” is perfectly fine and is very commonly used.

    So a basic dialogue would be like:

    A: ni hao ma?
    “are you well?”
    B: wo hen hao, xie xie. ni ne?
    “I am very well, thankyou. Yourself?”
    A: wo ye hen hao.
    “I am very well also.”

    @ Natelie Sara,

    Thanks for clarifying. I was from Hong Kong where Cantonese is the preferred tongue and welcome there is “foon ying”. 🙂

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