Whites will become an ethnic minority in the United States in a generation as Hispanic and Asian populations transform the make up of the leader of the western world. The US Census Bureau projects that whites, now 66 per cent of the population, will make up less than half the total in 2042 – eight years sooner than previously predicted.
Whites will still be the largest ethnic group, but non whites will for the first time make up the majority in America since the first US census in 1790.
So will it make any difference to Americans, or how Americans are viewed around the world? As the balance of power changes will it alter US policies? Or actually will it make little difference?
RSS feed
BBC World Have Your Say 
I think that the fact that the United States is such a mix of different ethnic groups is one of our greatest strengths. I don’t think that will change no matter what the specific blend is at any given time.
Although I am a proud Canadian, I think it would be a shame if America only identified itself by the colour of its people. So, Yes, America will still be America, regardless of skin colour. There is much more to the USA than that!
people from all around world dream of settlement in USA .especially people of under developed and developing countries.so people of Nepal are no exclusion.But what i think that with these kind of datas there will be intense debate in comiong days in america to change immigration policy.
The projections for this trend were well documented over twenty years ago, this is nothing new, nor surprising. There was a rather large write up about this is Time in the late 1980s. The trend, at the time, was attributed to immigration trends from Latin America, Asian countries, and the larger birth rates of those coming from predominantly Catholic countries.
What this question brings to mind is that people are now telling us that ‘AMERICA’ means white. Is it that people are now beginning to worry that in a generation or so the whites will be minority in a country that is wrongfully perceive as a white country. If me were to bring history in to place, we will know that America does not belong to whites, they occupy it and therefore there is no need to worry. One thing that is a fact is that America strength lies in her diversity of backgrounds.
There can be unity in diversity if people don’t stir up racial sentiments for selfish ends. Inevitably, there may be a change in the balance of powers as the majority will want to make their numbers count.
Awesome Topic! My initial reaction is… Yes, america will not only still be america when whites are the minority, but it will also be the america it should have been in the first place. This is the melting pot. It should have been a place where everyone celebrates the fact that they’re in a free country together, but at the same time shares all the elements of their old cultures. Maybe then we won’t all have to conform to the same standards.
My secondary reaction… America will be entirely different. The largest group of immigrants will be from south of the border, and they don’t have the same education level that we have in the USA. That means we’ll have a lot more potential workers in the blue collar arena. This will cause salaries to plummet, and that will result in more poor people. The middle class will drop out, and the divide between the rich and poor will get even bigger. I can foresee some serious racial tensions, which result in a blacks and whites vs. hispanics situation.
Basically, if we really do have the predicted “439 million” people in the USA at that point, then it’s going to be chaos. The world can’t handle overpopulation like this. 439 million in the states must mean 2 billion in China and India. That is far too many people on one planet.
America will remain whether it is dominated by whites, hispanics, asian of africans.
It’s a rise and fall of any empire. We just happen to be watching it in all it’s glory. I imagine the Gauls, certainly the Scots, looked at the rapid implosion of the Roman Empire with similar glee.
But being a minority didn’t impede the British, Portuguese, Spanish, Roman, Moor, Byzantine, … running out of pixels here, various Empires, sorry if I missed you out, I mean Zulu for instance, ruling the show. For a time.
The whites in the USA could downsize a bit without feeling the pinch.
For though there are poor whites in S.A., well on the whole they are not ‘that’ poor.
I find it interesting that the French, in their famed revolution, favored the “off with their heads” solution. Bit of a full stop if I ever saw one.
I wonder if the USA is not adopting a trick already treied and tested in S.A.;
We are going to be a minority.
We support (in public) the Rainbow State.
Get one of the majority as the shop window…
It all looks to me like the death throes of an empire we got know so well.
Imagine how they felt in Scotland when the corner shop moved back to Rome. Took them a long time to invent another one.
Malc
Berlin (also just a tourist attraction, but we can skate over that…)
No, America will not be the same, that is why the USA has to change its immigration laws and restrict immigration for Latinos! There are so many of them and they want to change America the USA to their culture and they want to change our language to their language. The USA should abolish giving the US citizenship to anyone who is born in the USA unless one parent or two are Americans, deport the illegals, restrict and reduce immigration. They should make English is the only and the official language of the US. No governmental documents in any other language. I only want to see English language, after all it is the world’s language.
Will American culture change? Off course it will. Has American culture changed in the past? Off course it did. Change will always happen, and the ethnic make up of the country will not prevent the change from happening even if it were 100% white.
Whites becoming the minority will most likely change our government’s policies in the long run (probably for the better) but America will remain what it has always been – a work in progress.
Fantastic topic! From the articles sent in today’s daily email from Chloe I was struck by a couple of sentences:
“For America’s friends and allies, there is no cause for apprehension and much for admiration. The American nation is a…successful case of social engineering, which continually renews itself.”
🙂 beautifully phrased.
@ Nick in USA,
Thank you for sharing your well thought out post. This brings to mind a quote:
“Change is the essence of life; be willing to sacrifice what you are for what you could become” – I have no idea who the author is…
America has always prided itself on its racial diversity. It does not matter, and it should not matter, who the “majority” is.
if america truly is what it says it is, then its values of freedom and equality will hold up regardless of any demographic changes. i hope this is the case and no backlash occurs… unfortunately with current immigration debates, it’s already a devisive issue.
but it will also be the america it should have been in the first place. This is the melting pot. It should have been a place where everyone celebrates the fact that they’re in a free country together, but at the same time shares all the elements of their old cultures. Maybe then we won’t all have to conform to the same standards.
Nick’s got it.
well i dont think anything will change if Whites become the minority.But yes things might change if the blacks are the majority.
So i think the question should be:Will America still be America if Blacks are the majority?
Well i dont think the whites can be out numbered by the blacks in the comming years.But I am sure the amount of non-american residents is increasing in America and that could go against them.
Thanks
Abhinav
@ Meg
Great quote. It is very insightful. I have no problem with spreading the wealth, and I already live quite modestly. My biggest expense is wine and good food, haha. I’m just worried about what will happen when the bottom really does drop out. When even americans can’t feed themselves. There are going to be some serious class wars at that point.
I don’t really see the point (or any sense, to be honest) in Malc Dow’s USA and SA comparisons. The minority Whites in SA are in no position to put a ‘majority figure’ in the shop window, as he puts it. The majority rules, and that’s that. If the Whites are economically better off, they can hardly be to blame after 14 years of majority rule with all its ‘rectifying’ and ‘redressing’ policies.
No, I don’t think the USA will be the same if the ‘whites’ decline to a small minority. It will be different, and perhaps better, seeing as how the current demographics of the electorate seem to encourage ongoing, destructive and globally dangerous American interference in every corner of the world.
At any rate, I think that American whites, even if they do form a minority, will swing things into a sort of white timarchy anyway.
The whole thing raises an even more interesting question: is democracy, in it’s final goals, really compatable with simple majoritarianism? Isn’t the uneducated, socio-politically unaware majority mass eventually going to sabotage democracy anyway?
So long as people integrate who cares? I will have a problem if the trends continue and people become insular. There are areas where I live that it’s like being in Latin America, nobody can even speak english. I hope I’m not going to be expected to learn spanish in my own country.
@ Colleen
Do you think any other country would allow a huge demographic change resulting from mainly illegal immigration. No other country would allow it, yet America is somehow racist if we even debate enforcing our laws?
If a whole bunch of whites snuck into south africa, and became the majority, there would be holy hell raised, and you know it!
@ Nick in USA,
Cheers to good wine and good food! Also two of my favourite things. I hope that the class war you speak of isn’t as bad as I fear… is all of this just evening the playing field?
This is another one of the questions that makes me wonder what is up with the WHYS team? It does give an opportunity to point out the differences between the conservative and the liberal movements.
Conservatives believe that America is made up of hard laws, people numbers, a flag, a language, and the land itself. Any aggressive action towards any of these objects is considered to be a strike in the face of “America”. Liberal though believes “America” is an ideology of freedom, equality, and place a pluralistic view to the “inalienable rights” as being something that every human deserves. To the liberal a strike on the ideals of “Americans” is a strike against the whole country. That is why Conservatives feel more offended by the 9-11 attacks then liberal thinking people. It is why Liberal will say that “the patriot act” did more damage to America then all the terrorist attacks combined.
America will still be here no matter what the color of skin is of the people in it. “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”
if america truly is what it says it is, then its values of freedom and equality will hold up regardless of any demographic changes. i hope this is the case and no backlash occurs… unfortunately with current immigration debates, it’s already a devisive issue.
Colleen’s got it as well! Already so many great points made!
America will be different because the White Neo-Liberal elite with their anti-democratic and anti-christian values will be effete.
I already see the values of the African-Americans and Latinos taking root in our communities for community action and real solutions to the failures of the ‘market-forces’ which are the new form of the catholic church to the White neo-liberal educated elite.
The African-American and Latino people understand the real outcomes of unmitigated market-forces on a society, there are no illusions from distant suburbs, gated communities or private prep schools. They understand the interconnectedness of the Western powers to the planet. Latinos know first hand the US CIA supporting dictatorships who naturally subscribed to Neo-Liberal economics because of the rapid accumulation of wealth in the hands of a few, and all the horrors of torture and human rights violations that entailed.
I so look forward to a new America with fewer White’s and their dumb dogmatic orthodox black and white belief systems. PS I am white white white.
America used to be a “melting pot” but more and more I see it as a loose grouping of insular communities. With the lack of integration–or even tolerance–that’s evident today, I foresee problems.
@1430a, why did you choose to restrict the topic to black and white. This is way of transforming a great debate into a racial one.
I hope I’m not going to be expected to learn spanish in my own country.
Google Language tools, I love em 🙂 I took spanish throughout highschool, and have worked with latinos at many food service jobs I have had since. My sister is fluent and her husband is from central america. I can speak a bit of spanish, but when I’m bored I’ll play around with the language tools on google to learn new words or how to phrase things. I know that it isn’t always 100% correct, but its fun to learn a new language 🙂
I understand everyones problem with having to learn a new language as immigrants populate their community. Many people in Herndon, near you Steve, get quite upset about that as it has been happening for the past decade there.
I think with the proportion of ethnicities it will be important to also note the distribution of wealth and power among those groups. That could be a very large problem in the future.
@ Brett
I took German in high school, because I wanted to learn German. I refuse to learn a new language to have to communicate in my OWN COUNTRY. All of us had ancestors that came from somewhere else. They learned english. Where do people get off thinking that they don’t have to do that, and why do the PC people enable them? Are they somehow better than my ancestors? more important, they don’t have to learn, but my relatives did?
Are they somehow better than my ancestors? more important, they don’t have to learn, but my relatives did?
I completely agree and understand.
@ Jeff in Cleveland Heights
I completely agree, when did this stop being such a positive thing? I live in NY so one of the biggest benefits to living in this over priced city is the world cuisine. MMMM!
@ Mohammed Ali
I wonder about this too. I think part of the reason America has the impression of being white and and anyone other than white-non-Hispanic are foreigners is, because 98% of our politicians are white. I wish more people understood that America’s strength lies in her diversity of backgrounds.
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”
The concept is multi cultural.
In much of the world, the importance given to racial and ethnic differences seems to be an oddity … archaic.
@ Steve,
I understand your frustration at the prospect of potentially having to learn a new language. And I agree. But let’s think about this in a different light: if that does happen, and you are unable to communicate in English to people around you, are you going to miss opportunities because you refuse to learn a new language? The language of a country is often created by its speakers being the majority. If English is not the language of majority in your area, will you strive to learn a new language so you can communicate? I’m not saying you’re wrong with how you feel, I’m just curious.
Well, I see what you’re saying about learning a new language Steve, but personally, like Brett, I enjoy studying a new language. I study Chinese daily. Being forced to study a new language in your own country, just to be competitive, seems a bit much though.
On the other hand, I taught ESL (English as a Second Language) in Taiwan. There are ESL schools on every other corner in that country. While teaching, I often thought that it was unfair for my students to be forced to learn English by their parents. If I were Taiwanese, I might be a little offended because all these English schools would be like someone saying “your language is not good enough”. I often thought, “what’s so great about English”, but then I realized that this was really a result of globalism and capitalism. The Taiwanese are so much more employable than most americans these days because they can bridge the gap.
A similar situation will happen with hispanic people in the future because they are the ones being forced to learn English, instead of vice versa. Eventually, whites and blacks in the states will be one language wonders, and nobody will want to hire them. So… it’s time to get on the bilingual train folks, before the rest of the world leaves us behind.
I think America is going to be worse if this demographic change happens. America was founded by the white people, and white people is America. Multiculturalism is a myth and it does not work, just look of what happened in the Soviet Union. There should be only one culture and one language, immigrants in the US should accept and blend with the American culture (the white culture) and speak the English language.
@ Brian
There is a BIG difference between multi culti and meltingpot. The US WAS a meltingpot. People from all over the world came to the US, with their own language, and became Americans. They learned the language, and blended in. Multi culti is people living in enclaves, and the government enabling it. It’s like separate societies in a society. You see what happens with that in Europe and somewhat in canada. Multi Culti is bad because it leads to self segregation and not blending in. Melting pot is good because you blend in, but always have your old identity. You don’t suddenly forget arabic by learning english. But when you never learn english, how are you really going to make it in an english speaking nation?
Historically there were worries among some Anglo –Saxon Protestants when Kennedy was the first Catholic US president. What can make the US different or the same in the future are the ideas held by the majority of its people. As long as the Americans hold to the constitution which guarantees the rights of everyone, there is little chance of national split because of a change in racial majority. The whites may stop being a majority in 2042, but this doesn’t mean the majority will drop the American values.
What is predicted is that the US won’t be the same in 2042 as in 33 years from now other countries will emerge as economically and politically more powerful, especially China and India. The Americans should learn to adjust from now on to the possibility that they can no longer be a superpower, but as a powerful nation with people from different parts of the world who can live in harmony among themselves and with the rest of the world.
@ Meg
The only way that situation would happen is if a bunch of people who didn’t speak english moved into my area, and it goes from an english speaking area to a non english speaking area. In that case, I would probably move. However, if I moved to a non english speaking area, I would learn the language. Apparently that rule doesn’t apply in the US though. If i moved to France, I would learn French. If I moved to Quebec, I would learn french, etc…
@ Steve,
I think the issue is that when countries encourage people to retain their culture, they are tied closely to that by their mother tongue. I don’t disagree that people should learn the language of majority wherever they go to.
@Mohammed,
I am really sorry if it was racial.But i really meant the fact and by black i mean all the Asians and the Africans migrating there and the way they are bringing in significant Changes(Rice and Obama to name a few of them.And these changes are for the good of America. So no racism brother.Only peace and brotherhood.
Abhinav
This is such old neww, words fail me as to how or why anyone could be surprised at this revelation. It is what is. If a person does not like the trend move or start having large families of your own. To me this is such an old non-issue it’s not even worthy of a debate.
In the past, even 10 years ago, immigrant populations were disconnected from their home countries. This meant that they felt the need to assimilate into their new society. Which explains the success of the American “melting pot” theory.
However we now live in a world where instant communication and air travel has shrunk distances. This now allows the individual to live his life as he would in his home country, eating the same food, speaking his own language, finding compatriots from his homeland as friends and so on. This is the road to ghetto-isation since the strong incentive to assimilate and localize is gone.
The America even 5 years from now will not be anything like the liberal beacon of freedom we see today. Immigrants will bring their way of life – including negatives such as honour killings, religious courts (e.g. the Shariat courts in Canada), restrictions on women’s liberty.
Being accepting of immigrants is fine as long as they assimilate. Otherwise stop them at the gates. India today faces a massive influx of economic refugees from Bangladesh and Pakistan. There are border states where the demographic changes are alarming and the effect on society is also visible in the rising crime rates. Beware America.
another point that i think will be interesting to see is this:
Many policies today that are considered by many to be un-just to minority groups (African Americans, Latinos, etc) are justified with the defense of being fair for the majority (White Americans). so it is hard to prove that there is institutional racism embedded in American social policy. Once the majority changes, we will see if policies continue to benefit a disproportionate number of white americans even when they are the minority of the population…. thoughts?
@ Colleen:
we will see if policies continue to benefit a disproportionate number of white americans even when they are the minority of the population
Well, if thats where the bulk of the wealth and power remain… And that discrepancy could cause quite a few problems.
as a little gal growing up whenever i saw a tall white man walking in our city in a very smaet way , the first thing I used to think was undoubtely he is an american neither Britions nor may b french,irish or anythg else.but now with the world being so much narrowed by the media and many non-white americans representing america from politics to the playground it isn’t necessarily a criteria that america equals the whites who should b the majority…america is a melting bowl and everyone has now found that they can b its part regardless of his/her skin color…so america will still be america even if the whites may seem to fall on the minority class
Even after the year 2042, The white population being the largest ethnic group will still prevail in later years.
@Steve,
I agree with your point on the need to speak English, but from a different perspective. The British colonized so much of the world, and English speaking popular culture is so universal, that English has become a world wide common tongue. So, for employment purposes, worldwide all should be encouraged to speak English as a second language even though other languages may be more elegant and expressive.
As for multi cultural versus melting pot, most Americans have certain things in common … but culture? … perhaps in the popular sense of the word. Please, cultural diversity has been here since “dirt was invented”.
Does not matter what race. The call of freedom and the idea of living in a place that enjoys such diversity, and the gathering of cultures…..the best of each culture….from other continents cause a wonderful mix of humanity.
I do not know if most seem to realize, but the people born from the mixing of the races seem to be really smart, and really nice looking people. Plus because of the idea that many people come here to be part of the brain drain and character drain…..the kids end up being well raised, well loved, and great citizens.
True, when we have so many coming here, they cannot all be good deals, we get a lot of criminals and many of our dullards use social benefits to destroy themselves and their sub cultures by just coping out of trying to do what is good for their own selves and families.
Overall though look at our people, look at our college towns, our real institutions of value. They are all getting better.
troop on the coast of Oregon
I do not know if most seem to realize, but the people born from the mixing of the races seem to be really smart, and really nice looking people
I’m going to second that 😉
Wow, sorry, that is one of the most racist topics in scope I’ve ever seen on the WHYS. I guess skin color DOES matter more than work ethic, values, economic make up, foreign policy….
Apparently, since someday whites won’t be the majority in the US, we are all going to start listening to rap music, etc etc. I’m glad I won’t have the opportunity to listen to today’s program.
@ Dwight in Cleveland
I’m a New Yorker and no one, liberals or ultra conservatives, feels more than we do about 9/11.
“The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”
Or ole G Dubya changing the threat level to Burnt Orange or whatever the new fear color is. Fear, such a powerful tool in exerting control and ensuring compliance.
There is good and bad in every culture. Unfortunately it’s not PC to discuss negative aspects. If you take for example, and I hate to make generalizations, but when you see it confirmed about a 95% of the time, you can’t really deny it much longer. But in the latin american cultures, they eat lots of fried food. Fried food is unhealthy, and it makes you fat. Virtually every hispanic woman I see is fat. The men don’t seem to be that as affected. Will these demographic change mean america is going to be even fatter in the future? We’re already fat enough as it is.
Again, not PC, but would this also mean that the average height of Americans will go down given that hispanics tend to be substantially shorter than whites? Then again, does it really matter (eheh, actually I wouldn’t mind more short men, makes it easier to get the women)
Sorry for my lack of political correctness, I’m not trying to offend anyone, but am just basing this on what i have seen on a daily basis my entire life.
@ Brett
I’m posting from my fallout shelter now. It’s a lot like Ned Flanders’ panic room that he went into when Bart and Milhouse had broken into Flanders’ house and discover Flanders’ Beatles memorabilia.
@ Steve:
Some interesting health facts on the non-PC front; Black vs Anglo-Americans:
http://www.blackhealthcare.com/BHC/HealthStatistics/healthstatistics1.asp
Maybe we’ll all be paying higher healthcare costs…. Then again as you’ve listed, every ‘race’ has their own cultural and genetic health traits.
@ Justin from Iowa
Well said and I, too, am glad I will in a meeting and not listening to today’s show. There’s nothing more disappointing than being pigeon into what other people think you are or should be or how you feel. Great why to end a meaningful discussion.
@Justin- You won’t have to listen, since you already know what will be said, so have a great day.
@Chipman–What exactly is “the white culture?” irish? English? German? Polish? Danish? Frrench? Italian? (Getting a bit darker there!) Spanish? Probly not, huh. Russian? Problem is, these are all very different cultures, and incidentally, each and every one of them was convinced that the next wave was going to be the end of American culture. The English dreaded the Germans and Irish, who looked down on Poles, who were certain that Italians were the lowest form of life… they would all howl with laughter at the notion of a “white cultue.”
In fact, so am I. But it’s not an entirely joyous or healthy laugh, and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
@ Brett
Every group has their pros and cons, their health pros and cons as well. There’s also a question about mixing. Since I’m a “jew” at least ethnically, I have higher odds of having a child with Taysachs disease, which means the child will never make it to adulthood. There are certain groups that also have that problem, such as French Canadians, so if there were lots of French Canadians in the US, if I had a child with one, my odds of having a taysachs child would be much higher.
I think that we will still be America in name but with more immigrants we will change and will continue to do so. In the area where I live we have a large amount Hispanic immigrants. I think the great thing about America is that we do have so many diverse cultures here. While not everyone is accepting of other cultures the majority are.
The larger Hispanic population here has created many changes. For example, smaller towns that are inhabited with large numbers of immigrants have seen a many long time residents moving to different cities. Many of the businesses have closed due to the white population not doing business at their stores. There is one town here that is almost entirely populated with Hispanic people. When I was young, we lived there. It was a beautiful, thriving, town now it looks unkept and run down. The mainly Hispanic population that resides there has no pride in it.
We see more businesses trying to draw Hispanic customers in by hiring Hispanic employees to translate and make them feel comfortable. Almost every time I call customer service menu options in English and Spanish. Many people are choosing to hire Hispanic people over white people because they are more eager to earn money while doing a less glamorous job. Colleges are appealing to the Hispanic population to pursue education.
I am not trying to call the Hispanic population out but they are the largest growing population here. While some are coming here legally, some are coming here illegally. I have a problem with that. It is draining our financial resources. Many are receiving assistance from the government when they should not. America welcomes everyone but if people want to live here, I believe they should do it legally and make an effort to assimilate with society. If I moved to another country, I would do the same.
This is simply an absurd question. Will America still be America if whites are a minority? Could you choose any more inflammatory language, or throw out a more ill defined concept? Without bothering to define what ‘America’ is, but using insinuating language – you play on people’s worst instincts and tendencies. You imply images of a beautiful white America sullied by the dark masses (very Birth of Nation), or a simplistic, racist America that is finally liberated when the horrid whites are suppressed. And really, this doesn’t even begin to touch on the complexity of all of the transformation that is occurring our country due to economic, social, political and environmental realities.
BBC, I am an African American female who turns to you each day for balanced, thoughtful dialogue. Clearly, today is not one of those days.
@ Jennifer
If you ever come to the DC area, look at construction workers. I cannot remember the last time I have seen a non hispanic construction worker. It must have been during my childhood. And that’s not the crummy job that Americans don’t want to work either. If I had my student loans paid off, I would work construction tomorrow. I would love to be outside and getting exercise all day..
Yes, people should assimilate, but the PC enablers don’t want that to happen. And the Latin American nations use the USA as their welfare system. The european Mexicans have all the wealth and power, and rather than fix mexico, they make us have to deal with the problem they refuse to deal with.
Hi gang ! ;-)…. 1stly I cannot say how much happy I am that the title of today’s on air thread is NOT ”Will America still be America if Arabs and Muslims form a significant proportion of its population ?”… 2ndly, I am not a big fan at all of the policies of the US government, besides I do have an overt pro-British bias… But let’s put all of that aside and say that the US as a nation, away from its government which I obviously hate the most, is a great nation that has so many marvellous merits, the most important of which are multiculturalism and diversity… The US was established on the bases of immigration in the 1st place, and so the US nation is essentially a nation of immigrants… I do remember that I have asked once a good British friend of mine a very naive question : ”What’s the difference between London and NYC ?!”… He answered me : ”If you go to London, you’ll be an Iraqi Londoner, but if you go to NYC, you’ll be a NewYorker !!”… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna… PS, my dearest Steve, what’s the meaning of ”PC people” ?! 😉
I’m sorry, but this question refers to a change in “the balance of power” in America? That’s what we have with Russia, not among ourselves. It describes a relation between adversaries, or enemies. We Americans are not each other’s enemies. There’s no balance of power here. What could you be thinking!
Jonathan
San Francisco
This one’s simple. America will be even more “American” when whites are no longer the majority. I think it’s the one thing a lot of America most needs.
Americans on the coasts embrace this diversity, and we’re aware how much we benefit from it. But Americans in the middle states are still very insulated and fearful of diversity, multiculturalism, and immigration. It’s a shame, and I believe this racial shift will eventually clear that up.
Diversity will always be one of America’s greatest strengths.
We do, however, need to reinvigorate America’s education system in conjuction with this shift. If we don’t do this, young Americans of any color will be ignorant of the benefits of diversity. I think the bigger threat to America’s identity is the rapidly disintegrating education system.
Hi Lubna
PC = Politically Correct
saying not what you mean, but what you are supposed to mean so as not to offend anyone!
Makes no difference at all to me. I’ve lived in a minority-white city in a minority-white state for years without any ill effect. San Francisco remains prosperous, pretty, and pleasant. California would be the 7th richest country in the world if it were a country.
This is a nation of immigrants, and we’ll do just fine, thanks!
@Jessica,
I am not sure what you man by your post. But, since you are from NYC you have a special connection to the incident. During one of my multiple pursuits I studied Eastern philosophy. I had a teacher who said something like this, “The bruise around the area is most affected, even though the whole body feels the result of the strike. You can not the health of the body by the bruise. Life must still go on.” However, even in your own city, there are people who believe that policy changes such as “the patriot act ” was a malice reaction to the attacks. There are also people who believe that it was a necessary reaction and helps secure the city. Are either of these people less “American” or less respectful of the tragedy of 9/11? I would say, “no”. So how do two different people who experienced the same event arrive at two very different conclusions about the response?
The difference lies in what they value and attribute to being, “American”. If an invading force swept through America, started a dictatorship that followed the rules and ideas of the declaration of independence and the constitution, would it still be the United States of America?
This is a farce of a topic. Countries don’t change due to race. Sheesh. Next topic. Title (and topic) written by someone with at least half a brain this time.
“Whites” that rule America–this particular subgroup is the WASP Establishment. The world of skull and bones, Knickerbocker, Sons/Daughters of the American Revolution, Union League etc. Think of that family that owns the Wall Street Journal–Bancrofts are descended from Boston Brahmins.
The movie by Whit Stillman–“Metropolitan”.
Compared to WASPs, other whites don’t enjoy as much leverage/sway (Italian Americans, Irish etc are collectively significant), or as much “prestige” (e.g. mega-rich influential Hollywood Jewish group), though still factor in the power equation.
Lubna~
There’s a good reason why the topic is not “Arabs and Muslims–Threat or Menace?” as it would more likely be in Britain or France. Arabs and Muslims here in America are mostly planted firmly in the mainstream of American life. In Europe, they’re shunted off to distant grimy suburbs, from which they eventualy emerge, sometimes angrily, to the great surprise of the British and French. In London, I don’t think you’d even get to be an “Iraqi Londoner” so much as an “Iraqi” — or some more unfortunate name.
I very much hope you get a chance sometime to visit for yourself.
Did you see my answer to you on talking apoints about the updated view on homosexuals?
I can’t help but think what happened in Fiji, is happening in Fiji, over the past 2 decades when the native Fijians revolted against the growing Indian population, the subsequent military coups and removal of elected ethnic Indian leader.
@Andrew–
So when you think of Fiji, what do you think, for America?
Will America still be America if whites are in a minority?
Yes, Immigrants to the USA see themselves as Americans ,they all buy into a set of values when they become citizens.
Also,these immigrant groups are diverse and compete with each other.
The USA is a nation of immigrants ,however the WASPs run the show.
Isn’t it still part of the Declaration of Independence or American Constitution that
Whites are 7/5 Human,
Brown people are 5/5ths Human and
Blacks are 3/5ths Human.
I cannot help to comment the inapropriate use of the word America. PLEASE could you use the words United States to refer to the North American nation.
America is the whole continent, not a single country. Please refrain from using IMPERIALISTIC language.
I agree with others that think this is an absurd question.
Who cares if the ethnic minority changes. Highlighting diversity in a negative way just perpetuates the idea of racial division.
Addendum to my previous post:
The very fact that there will be immigrant populations in ghettos that live in minature versions of their home countries mean that their allegiance to America, it’s values and the way of life will be very weak. Their values may even clash with each other and consequently America will have imported their rivalries and issues as well.
it is the multiracial nature of america that makes it what she is today…america will be a greater country. the country should continue to open up
“White Power” institutions do not run the country NY Oil……
True, the minority is not adequately represented, but “White Power” is not institutionalized throughout government….
The change has already occurred in some states. The cultural and political tension is evident in California. There is an acrimonious debate over whether to provide public services to illegal immigrants. While the debate focuses on illegal immigrants it has spilled over to legal immigrants. Demographic shifts has also happened in the “heartland,” where many Mexican immigrants work in industries such as meatpacking.
It is what it is! It will depend on what the culture becomes or how it changes. Diversity it’s a recipe for anything but diversity. You can be diverse and have a great productive culture or you can be diverse and have a brutal unproductive culture.
This terrible idea promoted by people on this blog and on your show, that if less white people are in power it will somehow make it better—is bigoted. You don’t fix bigotry with stupidty and more bigotry.
Hi my dearest Andrew… And thanks a million for answering my question my good friend ! ;-)… Wow, it always feels so good to learn something new… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna…
@Jessica in NYC
I agree with you – I think it is a really positive thing to have many different experiences, cultures and viewpoints in our country. It’s especially true in regards to the food, restaurants and culinary ingredients available now that were totally unknown just a few years ago. In the last couple of months, a Turkish, Vietnamese and Japanese restaurant have opened in my town – kind of cool!
I hope I am wrong, but you have to look into the future whilst remembering the past and there have been race riots and only 2 generations ago the segregation and all that went with it.
I do not know what goes on in the hearts of the average non minority American, but there is probably resentment by a lot of white Americans as there is everywhere and from taking a broader perspective and seeing how ‘melting pots’ often do not achieve the harmonious results they aspire to this might explode. It happens in Europe regularly. It happens in Africa, it happens all over the world and sadly civilisation is not evolved to a point where we can really get on so well together.
NY Oil, or whatever his name is, is not the best representative of a multicultural America. The man from Philly makes a good point. If Oil can’t carry on a conversation, the America is in danger.
How much of this predicted demographic shift will actually be racial mixing? In the African-American community especially, children with one white parent white are still classified racially (on gov’t forms – University applications come to mind) accoridng to the minority parent’s race.
Any comments from the guests?
I’m a Canadian expat living in Canada, Canada has an official open stance to diversity. I only learned French in the education system there but even now I try to maintain my fluency.
I I find it oddly insular but typical (look at American history) that this is even a talking point in America. I’m a very boring caucasian working in America but I find the Latinos and Asians in my city very interesting and stimulating … I’m trying to learn Spanish and read Mandarin in order to plug into their fascinating cultures.
I think Americans are like everyone else in the world and are initially (on a gut level) suspicious and afraid of things new and different. Look to Europe or Africa where people are fluent in more than one language. I find this very optimistic … imagine the exchanges! Until the global community re-institutes Latin or picks up Esperanto, learning multiple languages id probably the best bet for understanding our neighbours.
English-only or whatever is scarily nationalistic. Embrace newness!
NY Oil, or whatever his name is, is not the best representative of a multicultural America.
Agreed! I think his contribution to the Hip Hop debate was wonderful. In nearly every other appearance on the show many of his comments have been incredibly divisive. He is entitled to his opion though, as everyone is. And I respect that.
I would just like to say that I, as a 24 year old from Tennessee, welcome any kind of culture or ethnicity. But to accuse someone of xenophobia because they would like immigrants to assimilate to the way of life in America is ridiculous. We aren’t asking for them to change their heritage or beliefs, but they need to be willing to at least try and adopt some of the prevalent customs in our country. A friend of mine is a teacher and she has had parents that refuse to learn a word of English and will only write a note in Spanish. I feel that if we are reaching out to them in order to help, that individual need to be willing to meet halfay.
I am Latino and I am proud of being Latino- I speak English and Spanish and I am very grateful of knowing to distinct cultures very well. To me America will be America whether it is white, black, brown, pink, etc-since America is bigger than any ethnic, culture, race. America is freedom and America was meant to be different than European customs that our founders was getting away from-America is an what is in each in our hearts and what we are grateful of this great America. Maybe the question should be is America ready to adapt to the global culture or changes that there is no way of coming back. I really belive who are the ones that are against these changes that are going on in the make-up of our country is fearful and is limiting our greatness of our country: meaning being an example and leader of freedom, justice, and equality for ALL!!!!!
“clinging to being ignorant”… what a great description of the complaints about a diversifying country. What’s wrong with learning a new language? Why would you fight the opportunity to learn something new? I understand not wanting to cater to a new language and asking them to learn English is fine, but refusing to learn Spanish just because you resent the Latino influence is shallow and short-sighted.
Diversity is—simply diversity. It doesn’t represent a solution to the worlds problems. You can’t even fairly and logically make the claim that it is a good or bad thing.
Those proposing that more diversity will make America a better place, are just as wrong, as people proposing it will make it worse.
Any forced separation of races is of course a terrible thing.
If the whole world is mixed up and is equally diverse, people will find other ways to separate themselves—just look at religion and many other things.
As a soon-to-be-minority, I can say that I have no concerns over the United States changing as whites become the non-dominant group in terms of overall size. As one guest pointed out, as long as the institutions remain unchanged, the power structure of the US will remain the same. I believe that any changes to the ingrained, institutional struture of the the US will be slow in coming.
Regarding language, I have noted that English is often the “default” language in many areas. Even if it is not the dominant or official language, almost everywhere someone speaks at least a little English. I point this out because I do not feel English is in any danger of becoming weakened because of this. Regarding a plurality of languages spoken with a country, I believe that South Africa is a good example of utilizing an over-arching offical language while at the same time incorportating local languages. As a native English speaker, I find it quite easy to travel in South Africa and its neighbors.
Why can’t we be American? Why do we have to say if we are German-American, African-American, Polish-American… why can’t we say we are American? Frankly this whole discussion I find rediculous. In other countries you aren’t French-Polish, African-French, or German-French, African German, you are German or you are French. I think that the minorities are the ones who will make it seem like there is a problem in the U.S. The minorities label themselves as Hispanic-American, African-American, latino, etc. Why can’t they just call themselves American? My Grandfather came from Russia and my Grandmother Lithuania. They call themselves AMERICAN not Russian-American or Lithuanian-American. I think that English should be the national, established, language of America ALWAYS. American students should be taught other languages but we need a unifying language. Maybe when the minorities become the majority in the United States they will finally stop complaining about how bad they have it, complaining about racism, and we can get rid of affirmative action which is rediculous. Some may say I feel this way because I am white, but it is much harder to be poor and white in America “white trash” than a poor hispanic or african-american. Where are the scholarships and aid for college or affirmative action for poor whites? Minorities complain too much in america and as I said, maybe when they are the majority they will stop complaining about how bad they think they have it and the United States can finally progress. This white power structure? The minorities are the only ones making themselves think that they cannot get high jobs, they are the only ones holding themselves back. As I said, this discussion is rediculous.
Thanks for the clear-up NY 🙂 You are absolutely correct in your response. Except for the whites being terrified of Obama in office. I look forward to his presidency 🙂 Well more-so than if McCain were to be in office.
Having a “melting pot” should mean that newcomers should make an effort to assimilate. Too many Mexicans do not want to be Americans; they want to convert the US in to a “little mexico.” Having multiple languages is great; everyone should know more than one language — everyone, not just the white Americans. There should be a common, national language — in the US it’s been English for 200 years.
What concerns me is the backward-thinking trends promoted by many latino and indian immigrants. They don’t want equal rights for all; they want more rights than others. They do not want to become Americans. This is true for several other groups, too. Chinese often do not consider themselves Americans, they consider RACE first, ancestral home second, and community third. The US is somewhere further down the list.
Those who perpetuate the gender and caste discrimination from their ‘home’ countries and degrade all the efforts which have been made to promote equal rights, particularly for women. So yes, these people frighten me. Americans of all backgrounds will LOSE the ideas of equality and community as ONE Nation because too many immigrants do not want to actually become Americans.
Listening to the show,
My view is of course it will be the same, the whites have the money and control of the money.
The US institutions and the anglo american establishment will ensure that system stays in check regardless if they are in a minority.
re: NY OIL’s comments about Obama
Blacks are 12% of the US Population, without the white vote, he has NO chance of winning. So if he wins, it will because of white voters voting for him.
I can’t stand politicians, so I’m not voting for anyone. However, there are far more blacks who will vote for Obama because he is black than there are whites who would not vote for him because he is black.
America is NOT a melting pot but a mosaic with everyone proudly maintaining their original culture but blending into the surrounding cultures local to them. Polish people eat Mexican food, Mexican people eat Chinese food, Chinese people etc, and we celebrate all the holidays of each other.
Yes, and it will be better. What keeps this country moving is that it is a combination of the best and worst on this planet. As soon as we live up to those intentions we will move on and past our current economical, political and racial issues. it will happen… but it will be a slow, painful and helpful process for this country.
Your guest is as guilty as the racists he decries.
With his broad stereotypical statements about white people and others.
You don’t fix bigotry with lopsided views and more bigotry.
The hispanics got into the new world before the wasps got into the northern part and yet the northern americans prospered. Now the impoverished hispanics want to come north to mess that part as well?
I’m not concerned with what ethnicity people are, but I would be concerned with the number of people in GENERAL. The country is already overpopulated, as is the world. Unless population control is implemented, America cannot afford to accept everyone who wants to come here.
For sanity sake, whoever step in to the United States, should at least comprehend and communicate in English. Period!
@ steve
“However, there are far more blacks who will vote for Obama because he is black than there are whites who would not vote for him because he is black.”
How do you know that? not saying that you are wrong or not, but how do you know?
It is important to remember that only within the last few generations the idea of “whiteness” has come to include people from Italy, Spain and France or the Irish. My grandfather did not think of himself as white because he was a French speaking Catholic from rural Maine. In his experience, he was not white. In fact the Klan was very active in rural Maine in the 30s and specifically targeted French speaking Catholics. Though now we would think of him as white.
Many hispanics are white (Spanish ancestry)
It is important to remember that race is a social construct that is always changing. And I do not doubt that the idea of America will remain intact while the idea of race will change.
Jon from Portland.
If America was America when most of its citizens had a British accent (or when a large number of people were native to the country) then it certainly should be America when the majority of its people have varying skin complexions – other than White. It is ludicrous to say it is a different place based on race…it will be different based on a pervasive value system of the people…but once the values that premise the foundation of the USA (dictated by the constitution)remain the same then America will still be same for as long as it holds.
I’m a Jamaican, living in Jamaica. My history books tell me that colonial Jamaica was a very different place from it is now based on racism, the laws, the economy and many other socio/psycho/cultural changes. We were always Black in the majority.
It is policy changes that changes a nation, not the race race.
I came to the US from Panama and the first thing I did was to learn and to have a better understanding of the language and to adopt the culture. I did not came to this country to impose my culture or to expect the people of this nation to make changes for me.
It is better for the people of a country to speak a common language. I also believe that diversity is our weakness and not our strengths. Diversity only function when it works as a unify force.
In the nation of Panama Spanish is the official language and English is the language for business. It is important for the Panamanian people to learn both languages. Chinese immigrants in Panama do not want learn neither Spanish nor English, for me that is totally wrong and it brings division among people.
I considerer that the official language of a nation needs to be respected by immigrants and they need to learn the language in order to become an important member of that society.
I hope we all understand that the “language” issue is a big red herring and a fig leaf for racists. English isn’t going away. Immigrants learn English as fast as possible, knowing that it’s important for a good job and a good life here. It’s been happening as long as America has existed.
Jonathan
San Francisco
Also, I can’t stand it when people say that they will not vote because they can’t stand politicians. Like it or not, one of these two men will be presiding over our country for the next 4-8 years, and with severely different foreign policy, energy, and economic platforms, it makes no sense to not vote. Hmm would you rather invade Iran or become involved in a conflict with Russia, or not? Would you rather develop alternative energies, or just ignore the limited resource of oil, and keep drilling? Choose one, then pick the corresponding president. It’s that easy. Can you detect my bias?
I am wondering about the timing of this forecast. It sounds like the tactic of fear during election year.
Anyway, I don’t see a problem of multi-language as long as there is one common language. Some multi-racial countries have compulsory 2nd language in school curriculum, so that every child speaks a mother tongue and a common language; in the case of US, it’s American English. Language is part of a culture. Not knowing the mother tongue also means not able to read books in that language. People are capable of speaking more than one language. Infact, many people around the world speaks more than one language. Why not Americans?
I am of direct Native American and Irish descent and not only speak english, but am proud to call myself American. I am not dominated by a ‘white power structure’, and am terribly offended by the speaker how tells me that I am. What right does he have to speak on the subject. I see the changing of ethnic structure in the US as neither positive or negative, but as an event that marks a shift in United States history. I do, however, find it extremely important to speak more than one language, but keep english the language spoken in the public at large. The French people have a large arab minority, but continue to speak french, why should we change the language that our country was founded on?
People like Lou Dobbs, Bill O’Reilly and Michelle Malkins (who is the Asian-American version of Ann Coulter) should take note of the new study. The racial shift makeup is ultimately a good thing for the United States. Minorities will be expected to finally represent their communities in all aspects of governement and civilian administration.
Hi,
It is disturbing to see what is happening in the USA at the moment. Is there justice ?
I’d like to refer you to today’s BBC Outlook programme.
Many innocent people are being imprisoned in the name of ‘ War on Terror ‘
One example is Seyed Mohamood Mousavi who has been imprisoned on trumped-up charges.
http://www.freeseyedmousavi.com
Refer to BBC Outlook here :
=================================
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/outlook/index.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/outlook/2008/01/080523_trailpage_outlook_new.shtml
Thursday 14th August
Listen On Thursday’s programmeCourt Interpreter
Erik Camayd is a Cuban-American court interpreter whose complaint about a recent mass trial of illegal immigrants has led to an investigation by the US Congress.
More articles here :
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Erik+Camayd+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
http://news.google.co.uk/news?hl=en&q=Erik%20Camayd&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn
http://news.google.co.uk/news?hl=en&um=1&tab=wn&nolr=1&q=Erik+Camayd+congress&btnG=S
Ramses
from Shepherdstown, WV
The concept of ‘whiteness’ has changed several times as European immigrants assimilated into the fabric of our culture. The inclusion of these immigrants into the elite ‘white’ classification was not immediate or simple in any way. Similarly, America as we know it will change as the demographic changes. To be able to change is part of America’s strength. The beauty of America is not ethnocentrism or concepts of racial superiority, but the built-in systems designed to uphold and protect individual liberties.
As for institutionalized ‘white power’, look into white priviledge and it becomes clear that once put in place, the racist policies established early on in our nation’s history has lasting effets that although hard to put a finger on, are still prevalent today. Thanks.
I agree. We are one of the only contries that speak only one language. We, as speaking English only Americans are limiting our participation in the rest of the world. If we all knew two or three languages our communication and understanding of other cultures would increase, not decrease. It is incredibly self-centered for Americans to expect the world to bend to it’s language because Americans are not educated enough to learn another language.
The demographic of America has been changing continually since it’s inception. The concept of what is considered America has been change during this time. No matter if whites are a minority or not America will be different than it is right now in 2042. America will still be America no matter what.
The American gentleman with an Italian descent makes more sense….as compared to the American white….who sounds more like a moron… Just imagine presenting your program “Have Your Say” in different languages…. beside using the presenter using English?
As a white American teenager in a primarily white city, I very rarely come in much contact with people of other races than my own, and I am distressed by that. I think that America could regain some of what originally made us great (most of which has been lost over the years) if we return to the “melting pot” ; the blending of cultures, the diversity. As much as we would like to pretend that America kicked its habit of racism long ago, it is clear it still lives as a real and pressing issue. We can see it in much of the opposition to presidential candidate Barack Obama. Perhaps putting whites into the minority would help alleviate this problem. I, for one, would embrace that. I feel that America could only be improved by the added diversity.
Will America will still be America if white’s are the minority? Of course it will. You have here a country that has chosen to be a “melting pot” and as the term signifies, that means that things will consistently change as new ‘ingredients’ are added and melt together.
But I would like to comment on something the lady on the radio said a while ago… she commented that students who come to America and become american do so because they have embrassed the culture.
I’m sorry but that is a naive belief. For some, certainly but for many, they are coming from a country that they want an “alternative” to. Many people from countries that have an uncertain future (like Syria for example) and so they want a second nationality from a 1st world country .
Often, they not only don’t embrasse the new country’s culture but strongly crticise it. I’ve known many people who have gained US or Canadian citizenship (illegally, I might add) and yet, once they have it, they go back to their country where they proceed to sing the praises of their original country and criticise the one they’ve just gained citizenship for.
It is mad to think that the America we know today is some sort of immutable concept that has existed since the constitution was written. We are different now than we were two hundred years ago and we will be different again in another hundred years. The only question is how we will change, and I do believe that our population will influence that. But whether or not America will change is a moot question: everything changes.
Hi,
Color does not matter it is how people are programmed
Thanks
I am a white American of European descent who is greatly disappointed in the perspective of the gentleman from Pennsylvania. I think the more diversity we have the better off we are! Of course we will have to resolve the complications of multiple languages and cultures but the USA has always done that so why should we worry that we will suddenly not be able to. Every culture has strengths and when we have those gathered together we are stronger. I believe that fear is a destructive force in the USA mindset right now. I think we need to slow down, listen and learn from one another and choose respect as our default. This will not weaken us but make us stronger.
The United States greatest strength is in its diversity. The color of one’s skin or where you are from is not what makes you an American. An American is truly an ideal that anyone no matter where they are born or what class they are born into can become anything they strive to be. The greatest downfall of America is the inadequacy of public education. If America wants to cultivate its citizan’s to be enlightened, contributing citizan’s of the world then we must educate all equally.
The debate about the color of the future USA seems silly and unproductive.
It doesn’t matter if Whites are a minority in the US. Just remember that the US was not only populated by what we now call Native Americans, but the southern States, California and Oregon used to be part of Mexico, just look at the names of those places. The entitlement white Americans show is concerning.
However, let’s not forget current reality, look at profesional sports, Whites are a minority, Golf, a previously all white sport is now dominated by Woods. Even in these olympics, a black american won Gold with the AMERICAN TEAM.
Little by little people of color and diferent race and ethnic origin are showing that color makes no difference, geographical origin makes no difference.
At the end of the day, we are all humans, and human spirit is what’s important, the desire to improve, to grow is what makes the USA a great country and not the color of their people’s skin.
not a chance..if Obama wins there may no longer be an America, since the Russians and rouge nations will not fear us or respect us with him as our leader..
and the black guy on the show needs to relax…America is getting sick of hearing black people crying about being black..the whole situation is getting real old, they need to man up and get the community together and forget the past and look to the future…ps…i am black..
@ Colleen
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/28/politics/washingtonpost/main4298194.shtml
Though the study only says that 95% of blacks support obama, and doesn’t say why they support him, given that mccain doesn’t have a remotely as high support level of white voters, I think it’s easy to come to a certain conclusion. Or is it that Obama is simply that great that 95% of blacks will vote for him?
In a way this whole debate is moot because we are trying to identify something which has been changing over time. We are trying to jump on a moving train, so to speak.
The idea of “white” has changed over the centuries; at one time Irish and Italians were not considered “white.”
Also, the idea of “white” has changed in the eyes of the younger and older generations. During the 1960s young “whites” became disillusioned with their parents’ actions and spoke out. They saw issues as more classs-oriented, and I believe that this is the real issue. The U.S. is different from other countries because of what we went through in the 60s and 70s. This more recent change will come to identify a new U.S. for the future as well.
Ethnicity, culture and language are convenient “smoke and mirror” tactics used by the power elite – of whatever ethnicity – to stay in power.
A good example is how language is used as a convenient whipping boy. Most immigrants try very hard to learn English and their children learn it and lose their mother tongue in the process. It is a very complex issue that includes education, rights to communication and understanding, and socio-economic issues.
The Italian American gentleman expressed the complexity clearly when he said, on the one hand, that he thought non-English speakers were trying to impose their languages on the rest of the U.S., but that he wished he could speak Italian.
The social, economic and political culture is based on the original English culture that founded the culture, but has changed and will continue to change.
It will be interesting to revisit this topic in 50 years to see if our fears have come true…
Freedom of speech applies to all speech, not just the English language.
There is a difference between ‘integration’ and ‘assimilation’. Please discuss.
I don’t think the question is all that absurd. Although the US is more of a melting-pot than, say, the conflict-ridden multicultural scenario in Europe is, there is the possibility that the ‘melting-pot’ will be tolerable only for as long as the ‘whites’ wield the final political power.
Having said that, people of very diverse ethnic backgrounds do seem to become Americanized much more readily that non-indigenes in Europe become Europeanized, which might have a lot to do with the sink-or-swim hard capitalist US system as opposed to European soft socialism, which is often abused (or seen to be abused) by immigrants. Unless you become an American, you won’t make it in the States; but this isn’t true of Europe.
American patriotism also plays a role, whereas patriotism is mostly despised in Europe, together with nationalism.
As for Spanish possibly becoming one of two official languages in the US; why not? It seems a pretty natural outcome, given the demographics of the entire continent. Nice language, too!
Whatever happens, I hope that the US will pull out of the current nosedive of negative global activity and become again what it always has been…the land of the good guys, more or less.
I work in a company with many ethnicities (Asian, White, Hispanic, etc) and I have no concern about America not becoming American. When I see a Hispanic immigrant at lunch talking on their iPhone, I know America’s future is fine.
@ Jonathan:
“I hope we all understand that the “language” issue is a big red herring and a fig leaf for racists. English isn’t going away. Immigrants learn English as fast as possible, knowing that it’s important for a good job and a good life here. It’s been happening as long as America has existed.”
Yes, if you are referring to legal immigrants, you are absolutely correct. Not so for illegal immigrants.
@ Steve,
I refuse to learn a new language to have to communicate in my OWN COUNTRY.
You are so right! I know Spanish and I do not tell people I can speak it because I believe we need to have English spoken. Now, if a person tries to speak English and they are having a difficult time I will help out with my Spanish because at least they are trying.
Also, I would encourage someone in an unfavorable situation to immigrate to America, but not illegally. The American citizenship test is there for a reason, we need to regulate the immigration of people into our country for accurate census and tax purposes. By all means, keep your language and your culture, that’s great. However, if you choose to live in our country and enjoy many of our benefits, but avoid citizenship and taxation, then you are disrespecting the Americans who do, and I would not consider you an American.
I think the greatest thing Americans (of all colors) need to be concerned with is the fall of the country from its Number One position. Like Egypt a few thousand years ago, the Greeks and Romans and, more recently, Great Britain The US of A will soon be overtaken by China or India. Right now we’re all so worried about being “Politically Correct” and making allowances to all manner of odd fringes and those who want something for nothing that we’ve lost sight of our true values – ability to work together and make a success of what ever we attempt.
Soon enough we’ll wake up and find ourselves regarded as an aging grandfather who has lost his position in the family.
Hello,
I am a Caucasian Canadian living in Oregon, USA as an immigrant married (10 happy years now) to a US Citizen. The USA has often regarding itself as a “melting pot”. The difference in Canada and as Canadian Citizen/American Resident is the concept of Multicultural.
A celebration of many immigrants from around the world is enriching culturally. Increasing respect for our Native Americans, all of whom have their own languages, and righting wrongs of the past is a step forward.
An embracing of Multiculturalisms makes this country stronger and even more diverse. We cannot forget the people from non-English speaking parts of the world who were early pioneer immigrants created the country we know today.
Change is often hard, particularly for a majority. This is a strength not a detrimental change.
Thank you,
—
Kathryn – Colton, Oregon
Come, on, all the similar situations are happening in everywhere in the world or have happened in the world. How about the native American feeling when White come to America, what did they feel about the change? UK had different races people of Viking, Anglo-Saxon coming than the original habitants. Scotish melted in Britain, did British people feel Scotish emerging with others make Britain not Britain or a greater Britain? I’m Chinese living in Australia, people feel proud about multi-culture here. Similar things happened in Canada. Even in China and Japan, Tibetan, Mongolian, Korean are mixed with other ethnics in China, Okinawa people melted with other Japanese after Liukyu islands became part of Japan. Even France and Germany have other ethincs, Jewish, Corsican, Sorbes. Race mixture is one way why world is more colourful. Some white people now habit and reside in Tokyo and Shanghai now. People melting is happening everywhere, that is how human processing. Look where have most beautiful girls, South America, because there are more race mixtures.
The black gentleman speaking on multilingual / multiculturalism is missing a fundamental point…
A house divided falls! A common language is THE cornerstone to a strong social structure. Culture on its own is not the issue of whether America is America.
It is extremely disrespectful to come to someone’s home and not conform to the rules / customs of that house. The same holds true to coming to a country. Learn the language, learn the culture and learn the customs AND put them into daily practice. That is what it means to be an American immigrant.
I do not support multi-lingual representation. I resent the fact that our country as a whole is loosing sight of the above principles.
Lastly to illustrate that this is a very old I issue I leave you with a quote:
Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN
“In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American…There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile…We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language…and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Barack isn’t black NY, any more than he isn’t white, he’s mixed….
If you want to see what is to become of American in the next 4 decades look at California. The trends in this state are more often than not adopted in the rest of the country in a decade or two anyway. The diversity in this state is what makes it a wonderful place to live. Living with people from all over the world enhances your own perspective of the globalized world and the integration and tolerance that people have grown to have in California is absolutely wonderful. If this is the makeup of things to come in the rest of the country it can only serve to uplift the status of the rest of the country.
I am hearing a lot of anger expressed at the Euro-Centric power structure here. Why shouldn’t we continue with a structure that for the most part has ensured the most stability worldwide. Other non-Euro Centric cultures do not seem to be doing as well balancing stability and personal freedoms. I think things will change gradually not explosively.
Dear World:
All Americans are not as ridiculously stupid and lacking in depth as some of the people featured on today’s show.
I think it’s the whites being bullied by non-whites. It’s the case of reverse discrimination where the latter point conveniently at human rights, racial equality and etc, to treat the former unfairly. Give the whites a break! It’s unrealistic to expect them to accept every culture change in America with a smile. Imagine your ethnic group in your country being replaced by a minority. Will you smile? Yet we still blame some whites for being concerned. In my opinion, the non-whites who enjoyed the fruits of racial equality set up by whites will turn out to be internal intruders, stabbing the whites in the back. This world is full of hypocrites, and heartless souls! By the way, i’m Asian., a Burmese. I love America with the whites as the majority. Rapper, please read this..
such anger in his voice..
I was talking on the air and suddenly the line was cut off! Was there a reason?
Hi,
I would like to share a quote from Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. :
“When our days become dreary with low hovering clouds of despair, and when our nights become darker than a thousand midnights, let us remember that there is a creative force in this universe, working to pull down the gigantic mountains of evil, a power that is able to make a way out of no way and transform dark yesterdays into bright tomorrows. Let us realize the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice.” – Martin Luther King
This also Senator Barack Obama ‘s favorite quote :
” Let us realize the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice ”
Thanks 🙂
@ NYNOIL
Actually the caller is right. Obama wasn’t exactly raised wealthy, but he wasn’t raised in the black experience of inner city poverty. He was raised by his white mother, and white grandparents, and then in other countries. He never lived the experience of the kids in the HBO documentary Hard Times at Douglass Hight, which i recommend everyone on here watch.
As a “white” person living in American I am saddened in some of the views expressed by other “white” citizens of my country.
The more deversity we have in America te better of we will be. I hope the more people are exposed those different than themselves and in that gain some perspective.
America will be less WASPy, not less “white”.
I can’t believe you are letting this racist clown dominate the show.
BTW, Oil, your quote was not by Bob Marley – it was Bob Marley quoting Haile Selassi.
Here is another useful quote :
“No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.”
Nelson Mandela
Long Walk to Freedom
@ Jade
“I am wondering about the timing of this forecast. It sounds like the tactic of fear during election year.”
Good point!
As for Americans speaking more than one language. I heard a joke about this. Something like: If you speak 3 languages, you’re trilingual. If you speak 2 you’re bilingual. If you speak one language poorly, you’re american. This is the type of thing that gives us that “ignorant” image around the world. I know there are a few listeners in the UK who think we don’t know anything about the world outside of North America.
In istening to the program, NY Oil keeps saying that it is the power structure that is the problem, that it isn’t diverse enough. I agree that politics in the US is dominated by older, affluent white peple. But, I mist point out that, we as the “whites” cannot be held completely responsible for that. Where are the individuals that want to run for office and make themselves a part of the government. Barack Obama is just one example of what different people can bring to the table.
On a side note, I have to say that I find it irritating that NY Oil keeps referring to Americans as “y’all” as if is different from us.
I think that when this will happen, the america’s policies will become more sensitive to the world realities.
Come, on, all the similar situations are happening in everywhere in the world or have happened in the world. How about the native American feeling when White come to America, what did they feel about the change?
UK had different races people of Viking, Anglo-Saxon coming than the original habitants. Scottish melted in Britain, did British people feel Scottish emerging with others make Britain not Britain or a greater Britain? I’m Chinese living in Australia, people feel proud about multi-culture here. Similar things happened in Canada. Even in China and Japan, Tibetan, Mongolian, Korean are mixed with other ethnics in China, Okinawa people melted with other Japanese after Liukyu islands became part of Japan. Even France and Germany have other ethnics Jewish, Corsican, Sorbes.
Race mixture is one way why world is more colourful. Some white people now habit and reside in Tokyo and Shanghai now. People melting is happening everywhere, that is how human processing. Look where have most beautiful girls, South America, because there are more race mixtures.
A lot of people now have different blood origin, look Obama, look Johny Depp, Keano Reeves.
My dearest Jonathan : Hi… And unfortunately no. I haven’t seen your comments about the updated perception of homosexuals, but I’ll take a look at the talking points page as soon as I submit this comment Inshallah, THANKS A MILLION my good friend ! ;-)… And I do believe that we shouldn’t take the answer of my good British friend in a general context here… After all he was answering MY question to him i.e. If I, as an Iraqi project of a future doctor who speaks pretty good English and who buries in her heart a great deal of respect and admiration for the British culture, BUT at the same time wants very much to remain Iraqi, then living in London won’t be a problem for me and I’ll be able to cope and manage pretty well down there… While the American culture does have a very unique characteristic which is that after a while of living there you’d find yourself to be totally American and detached both culturally and emotionally to a significant extent from the original place that you’ve come from… I do know that’s called a ”melting pot” or something like that, am I correct ?! ;-)…. With my love… Yours forever, Lubna… PS, if any of my perceptions about the American culture is wrong, then please guys, free to correct me, after all I am a knowledge seeker…
The question above implies and it is likely that America will change if whites become a minority. It is no less likely that the attitude to America in the world will change if non-whites take over its government because it will no longer represent Western culture. Minding even the Forum discussion of Western culture over the BBC, one has to say that Western culture still enjoys superiority. But most importantly, the world will be changed and it has already as the recent conflicts show. The recklessness of the younger generation has started fixing a new design to the world.
To your question: Yes, of course America will still be America even if minorities (non-whites) become the majority of the population so long as these minority children attend public school. It’s in kindergarten and elementary school where we learn we are all Americans, no matter what our background or ancestory. We salute the flag daily and learn the words to our national anthem and the other great standard American songs. Public education in this country is the great homogenizer, the ladle that stirs the melting pot, if you will. I am white and my wife is from China so my children are half Chinese – and I can confirm that their Boy Scout uniforms fit the same way they would on a white child. That’s the genius of American public education; we’re all different yet we’re all the same.
Firstly, the AMerican constituiton was drawn out during the transition from feudalism to industrialization. That goal of the constitution was “equal competition.” True enough there was an element of racism during that time ( e.g. slavery, was still a commodity). But hey! there were many things that were not perfect, and that should not be a reason to devalue or neglect the achievement of this transition (freedom from feudalism:- probably pictured by the capture of Bastile by the French peasants et cetera). So although the constituion was written by white men, the fundamentals were based on equality. That is why little has changed in the constitution while there has been a lot more integration of different races as compared to ~200 years ago (in America).
My opinion is that the “white power”, “black power” etcetera rhetoric does not have much leverage as before. Actually, I feel today, the question is how much money do you have (that is the biggest divide). But the cool thing is that in parts of the world (i.e. developed countries et ecetera) to some degree there is a much more equal way for every man, regardless of color, in the competition to gather wealth. However, success requires a lot of determination and luck of course.
Things change with time. The world today has a lot more equality than before. But nothing is perfect and nothing will ever be. But in my view, that is a cause to continue the change, and try to make it as perfect as possible.
MAybe the goal of the AMerican constsituion is the same as that of the UN (kind of similar):- Not to bring humanity to paradise, but to save it from hell.
I have to admit I’m xenophobic. It’s not about skin color, but about culture. I’m a WASP and I have to say, I like my WASPy culture and I do have fear about other cultures dominating because there are lots of aspects of the soon-to-be-outnumbering cultures I don’t like. Such as the food — for example, a lot of Asian is gross to me. I just can’t stomach it. I grew up on the East Coast but I live in California now, and South and Latin American food abounds. It really doesn’t do it for me. (I love Thai, Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, Indian — but these aren’t the cultures we’re talking about). There are other aspects, such as manners (ie bluntness versus politeness — many Asian people seem to be quite blunt while many Hispanic people are unfailingly polite to the point of not communicating effectively). There’s the way women are treated in more-paternal cultures — I had an Asian man tell me I should be ashamed that I didn’t take my husband’s last name. And yeah, I bought a Spanish language program on CD so I can learn Spanish. But do I want to learn a second language at the age of 40? Not really. I’m not very good at foreign languages — I’ve tried French, Russian, Italian, Portuguese — and it’s a big struggle I don’t want to have to reintroduce into my life this many decades out of school.
That said, if America turns into a place where eventually everyone has beautiful caramel-colored skin and mixed heritage, but I can still enjoy *my* cultural heritage of WASPiness, then that would be okay for me.
Yes, America will continue being America but only better when there are other racial groups in power. Don’t get your knickers in a twist just because the whites will be a ‘minority’ notwithstanding the largest group. Let’s hope that the minorities will assert themselves and won’t be Uncle Toms (a la Colin Powell). And produce a better foreign policy than what we have seen for the last 105 years.
Vive la difference!
I’m a white American of European descent. There are two black branches in my family (one the descendants of former slaves, the other more recent immigrants from Africa.) There is one Asian branch, from the Philippines. In addition to these biological relatives, my family also includes two separate Hispanic branches, the result of adoption.
I am intensely proud of the racial mix in my extended family.
Sooner or later all American families will be as racially diverse as my own. I personally will rejoice when this is so.
@ Steve – RE: Obama’s experience
The idea that in order to have a ‘Black experience’ in the US someone has to be raised in poverty, is indicative of how deep stereotypes have been ingrained into our thoughts. Just as poor Blacks have different experiences than poor whites, so too does the experience of rich Blacks differ from that of rich whites. It does not take being poor to experience being Black. And please, don’t get mad, get enlightened.
I think that this future shifting of the demographic reality in the United States makes the 2008 election and the possibility that Sen Obama could become President more important in that his campaign, and the first real chance that a minority could actually become president is motivating the minority electorate in a way that has never happened before. America will be a better place with more diversity and might actually approach the ideals that so many Americans cling to, but that society has not emulated.
America is run by few rich white people and if the majority to be ruled are white or non white it does not make difference. Asians mostly Koreans and Chinese might benefit in putting their representatives in congress in the next decade or so. African Americans sending black representatives,however, have not produced dramatic change in improving the lives of African Americans and Asians will not expect much either.
As long as America is run by few rich white people nothing will change for the now minority groups which will soon become majority.
Where language is concerned, there is absolutely no harm in learning more than one language. We are one of the only countries that is not bi-lingual. Yes, English, right now, is the global language so there is no threat in losing that. All we have to gain is a more open-minded cultural frame-work which, by seeing how upset people are getting over this, is much needed. We are a melting pot, not historically speaking but currently also. How selfish are we to say that our ancestors could come from Europe to find freedom, but the open arms stop there.
Let it be remembered that the white group we’re talking about is a fairly new concept – in previous eras, much of this population – Italians, Irish, Germans, Polish, Scandinavians, and so forth were all ethnic groups which suffered severe discrimination. The dominant whites in other eras were from a few Northern European countries like England and the Netherlands. This show seems to be considering the idea that a proper American is of European extraction, but the face of America has always been one of great plurality.
If you watch the video where Obama said that Americans should learn Spanish, he led the speech by saying that immigrants DO need to learn English, but that Americans should promote the learning of other languages, primarily Spanish.
Canada had to change its previously dominant French culture in order to accommodate Anglo-Americans who continued to push back its borders, yet today Canada is one of the most diverse, tolerant and peaceful countries. Why should white Americans become fearful of the increasing immigrant population? As long as the proper systems are kept in place to integrate immigrants there should be no problem with a diminishing white population.
I’m American and we are snobs when it comes to our language. We need to learn other languages. They should be taught in school at a early age.
Wow – as an American, I am offended by the very question whether America will still be America based upon which race is a minority. America’s strength comes from its diversity and there is no country more diverse than America. If you doubt this, turn on the Olympics. No Olympic team is more diverse than that of America. The question obviously came from abroad, because true Americans do not think in these terms. True Americans know this is not a nation of homogenous race, creed, and color. America is a nation built upon values and principles. Americans do not judge others by the color of their skin, but rather by the quality of their character. Americans have fought and died for these values. Both at home and abroad!
Joe is an example of the old guard, America first world vision that has led to the aggressive, narrow minded governance that has lead this country down the wrong path. I for one cannot wait till they are no longer a major political voice in this country, maybe then America can truly be the leader of the free world, leading through promotion of peace and freedom FOR ALL!
@ Robin from Portland
“The more deversity we have in America te better of we will be. ”
This sounds nice, but is it actually true? What I’m asking is: How will immigrants fundamentally improve the “quality of life” in America? Culture is interesting, and I love diversity, but can immigrants actually make the quality of American life better? And how?
Changes in America structure of population are not able to change America, only changing values of American society can change America.
America won’t be ‘America’ as we currently know it when whites become a minority but we need to acknowledge that America hasn’t been ‘America’ as the framers envisioned it since the military/industrial complex began running the country after WWII.
As a white American I’d like to say I am frustrated by non-whites being so happy to ‘get’ the majority while simultaneously mocking whites for wanting to ‘keep’ the majority through immigration limitations, maintaining English as an official language, etc.
@ steve,
you said the amount of black people who will vote for obama because he is black outnumbers the number of white people who will not vote for him because he is black. i still don’t see any proof of this statement…
@ Nick
“This sounds nice, but is it actually true? What I’m asking is: How will immigrants fundamentally improve the “quality of life” in America? Culture is interesting, and I love diversity, but can immigrants actually make the quality of American life better? And how?”
Good point. Is Japan somehow less better off because it isn’t diverse?
I have a feeling is that while it doesn’t cause harm, it really just makes liberal guilt diminish, temporarily.
I hope the people will be more adult and more fair-minded than the young & maybe full of themselves, people who said it will be a better America. It sounds like what I would not hesitate to call hate speech if it came from a neo-nazi or KKK member saying it would be better all white,or all blond&blue eyed.People are different even when they look the same.That is what created the KKK&the whites who fought for civil rights.These”I want mine now”ideas are scary&divisive as any prejudiced KKK ideology.
I came to the US from Panama and the first thing I did was to learn and to have a better understanding of the language and to adopt the culture. I did not came to this country to impose my culture or to expect the people of this nation to make changes for me.
It is better for the people of a country to speak a common language. I also believe that diversity is our weakness and not our strengths. Diversity only function when it works as a unify force.
In the nation of Panama Spanish is the official language and English is the language for business. It is important for the Panamanian people to learn both languages. Chinese immigrants in Panama do not want learn neither Spanish nor English, for me that is totally wrong and it brings division among people.
I considerer that the official language of a nation needs to be respected by immigrants and they need to learn the language in order to become an important member of that society.
The natives own the land they call America. Not whites
europe has had massive immigration from asia for thousands of years, there was no one to control the goths, visigoths, huns, or ottoman turks. The only difference in america is that immigrants from europe and asia have to cross the oceans to get here. Canada has an open immigration policy and are only benefiting from it. This “great melting pot” is a total crock. The world is a great melting pot. It is going to happen whether or not we get upset about, so why unnecessarily stress ourselves? I have many ethnicities in my background and family, what is the big deal?
The American Civil war was fought because of a desire for change. A change that has made the US (despite problems within so called racial minorities) a haven for people believing in democracy.
Obama has called for change – and has managed to call on those who have been disallusioned with the staus quo of the Have’s in power. The young want change. And as the leader of the Western World, the US is showing that they will be a multicultural society which could work. The fact that Obama beat Clinton is proof of a desire for change.
And finally – it is the oddest thing in the world to say that dark people are ‘People of Colour’. World statistics illustrate that the fair skinned people are actually the minority.We (white people) are people of colour(or no colour).
This distinction shows how embedded white attitudes are- and a change in the Us into a less white view is to be applauded – and will make the US greater.
America is always America no matter who the majority is. We are all Americans first be it white, black, or bi-racial. We have the freedom to marry, immigrate, and have children with any race we choose. It should speak to the diversity and freedom we enjoy. No other place in the world has the mix of races and peoples that we do and we are proud of that!
Yes, and it will be better. What keeps this country moving is that it is a combination of the best and worst on this planet. As soon as we live up to those intentions we will move on and past our current economical, political and racial issues. it will happen… but it will be a slow, painful and helpful process for this country.
@ Steve
“Good point. Is Japan somehow less better off because it isn’t diverse?”
This is the exact country I had in mind. Japan is 99.99984% Japanese. They have a very high quality of life, and they refuse to let foreignors in. Imagine how different Japan would be if they allowed tons of Filipino, Chinese, and Koreans in the country. Would it be better? They certainly don’t think so in Japan. I just asked my Japanese co-worker, and he thinks the preservation of his culture is one of the biggest benefits of not allowing immigrants into the country.
I’m a white male Republican voter who will be voting for McCain, not because he’s white, but because I agree most with his stands on the issues. Back when there were 14 Republican nominees and 10 Democrats, I told a friend I’d prefer McCain, but I never dreamed at that time he would win the nomination. I also said at the time I would vote for Obama over any of the other Republicans.
I am insulted by the guest who suggests I’m voting by race. I’m not the racist, he is.
This reminds me of a comment my mother made. She told me I wouldn’t vote for Hillary because she is a woman. But that’s not true either. In fact, I’d vote for Kathleen Sebelius for president, depending on who her Republican opponent is, but I’d never vote for Hillary because I don’t like her stands on several issues.
This whole discussion of whites becoming the minority is premature anyway. 1st, it’s a prediction and can easily prove to be false. Similar predictions in the past have proven false. 2nd, whites might not be the majority in a generation, but they’ll likely still be the most numerous group — i.e. a plurality.
America will still be America in a generation. America has shown that the principles established in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution can and do apply to groups not originally intended by the founders, but America has remained strong and cohesive by applying those principles to more people.
It seems to me that we’re making it seem like there will all of a sudden be a sharp change overnight, which it won’t be. Yes, there will be changes. The world is always changing. Gradually over time as the cultural make up of the world changes, America will change. It is not the same today as it was 100 years ago, and I should hope it’s not the same 100 years from now. When the majority of the immigrants to the US were white at the turn of the century, we had a melting pot of European cultures coming together into one, and that is gradually happening on a global scale now. It is nothing different than what has always been happening in the United States. Change is inevitable, and progress helps the world.
People like Bill O’Reilly, Lou Dobbs and Michelle Malkins (who is the Asian-American version of Ann Coulter) should take note of this racial shift makeup. Ultimately, this change will be a good thing for the country. Minorities will be represented in all aspects of government and civilian administration. I personally think that English should be the official language of the country but that Spanish and other languages should be diligently taught in schools. People who remained unconvinced by this potential change may just be xenophobe, or ignorant at best.
The guest keeps saying “whites want this, whites want that”, e.g. “whites don’t want to be friends with blacks”. That’s just not true.
Someone just brought up the point that america is a melting pot already. The reason white people will not be the majority anymore is because of the afore mentioned reason. So many people in America are entering into interracial relationships, and the resulting child is not, for instance, called mulatto (black and white parents), but instead is simply labeled black. Someone can be an eighth black, and seven eighths white, and still be considered black. So the study really just means that the white majority, will be fully white. Not to be funny or racist, but America will be a country full of “mutts” (mixed races), and not just white, black, hispanic, chinese, etc.
Just mentioned on the radio programme:
Yeah, the baby boomers … as a generation to follow them, I feel more hostile to them (so many, so selfish, so egocentric) than I feel towards the optomistic, invigorating immigrants. Babyboomers probably all speak English but they’re going to be a more negative impact on the economy than immigrants. Immigrants tend to invigorate an economy.
Quite obviously, America of the future will be not much like the America of today. A change in ethnic make up will radically change America’s character in both positive and negative ways.
In the past catholic immigrants, from Poland, Ireland and Italy arrived in their numbers and had larger family sizes turning America into a majority catholic country, which changed America’s character completely. For example, a majority catholic America has changed how America views the rights of women to have abortions.
Why does America, unlike the UK, requires any organisation applying for US funds to sign an undertaking not to counsel women on abortion – other than advising against it – or provide abortion services? Because, America is a catholic country and the UK is still a protestant country.
I think what the one women was saying is English should be the “Legal Language” is saying that in government offices English would be the Official language. My wife works at a Library and the school district serving the area has 30 different languages spoken. For each hand out that the Library has it is available in 10 different languages.
I would like to add that the man from the Us who is living in the Uk is dead right – colour is not the issue – it is power. I am a white Zimbabwean. We know(as all ZImbabweans) what bigotry can do – and it has nothing to do with the colour of our skin. It had to do with entrenched power – Mugabe used colour as an excuse.
My daughter is living with a man who has mixed blood. My son is dating a Philipine girl. Who cares? Why should we? The happiness of our kids is much more important.And integration is a fact of the future. It is foolish to deny it- regardless of whether it is the USA or ZImbabwe.
As a second generation educated Mexican American, I agree with the point of NY Oil. The Power of the Anglo-American has shifted to an Socio-Economic oppression. To avoid the truth of their own Racism
unfortunately,time and time again when people get a percieved advantage,or power,or status,they start acting as bad as any other tyrant,autocrat or dictator.
Abusing power.Abusing authority and abusing the people around them.By being the most devious predator,we are at the top of the food chain.We can kill anything.By being the most dangerous predator on the earth,we are destroying the environment and the world around us.We won’t go over the cliff like lemmings,our lack of perspective and sanity will destroy the ground we stand on.The cliff will be irrelevant when we do not recognize the danger we are surrounded by.
I am a British-Iranian and emigrated to England as a child 30 yrs ago now married to an Englishman. I think the issue your discussing is a cultural one that has little to do with language or religion or race. The so called “problem” with American emigrant population also applies to United Kingdom with the birth rate higher amongst the Asian population than the English. It is important to remember that as an emigrant when you move to a new country one must integrate with the locals and I believe an awful lot of emigrants are guilty of not making that effort and staying in their own pockets and remain separated. When I came here I believed in the ” when in Rome live like Romans” if immigrants refuse to mix, learn the language or forbid their children from marrying outside their race it not only makes the new generation confused and keeps them isolated but also it allows for the segregation that leads to extreme ideology and stops them from becoming a part of the bigger picture.
On another point we have to stop being nationalistic and think of ourselves as the citizens of the world because that is the only civilized way forward.
Just wanted to pop in and say that i resent the fact that the obvious racism exhibited by your “hip-hop/gangsta” guest has gone un checked. when he referes to whites as “they”, he betrays his own racism.
For his information, the U.S.A. if NOT a nation, it IS a body of laws which WE refer to as THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Further, he should know that anybody who comes to America is welcome as long as they agree to abide by the LAW. WE ARE ONE PEOPLE.
thanks.
Of course it will, and more so! We will probably admit more immigrants, from more areas. And our famed ingenuity will be enhanced by different modes of thinking. I look forward to the vibrancy and invigoration of such an environment. And I have some experience with this: I am white, bu t attended a high school where whites were only 30% of the students.
On the other hand, if we consider certain aspects of our current situation – maybe not! Interaction between groups will probably be easier. There will probably be more emphasis on social and economic situations. (In many countries, and I believe the UN, a decent economic situation is considered a basic human right.) There will probably be less interest in attacking other countries. At least, there will probably be less interest among the overall population in attacking any specific country.
It’s possible that some especially insightful, articulate guest might deserve to be on the show for the whole hour, and even be indulged for long filibuster speeches.
Today’s obnoxious loudmouth “NY Oil” is most distinctly NOT that guest.
The whites should stay the majority in America, they founded this country. I mean by the whites are the ones with the Europeans decent, that is America, and it should stay this way. We don’t to be a latin America or African America.
Just for information’s sake: Does the constitution of the Founding Fathers say that it should be white majority in the first place and at all times? It has become a country of immigrants and their off springs under a united banner. What’s wrong with maintaining the momentum so long as it is economically sustainable to do so?
@Steve
While we do have Hispanic people who work in construction/road crews here I was referring to factories. Those are positions that are hard to fill with white workers at times or they choose to not continue working after awhile. I have no problem with anyone having any job they like as long as they are here legally.
@Lubna
Have you ever been to the US? We are a melting pot of people with many different cultures:) Just because someone moves here from a different country doesn’t mean that they are forced to emotionally and culturally detach from their home country. I think the opposite is true. People are encouraged to be who they are and practice whatever beliefs they hold. However, to keep onesself so rigid in their home country’s culture would not give anyone the opportunity to learn about other cultures or also be a part of the U.S as well. There is room to hold on to one’s own beliefs but learn about other beliefs.
The more; the merrier! I know a bit of German, and anybody can learn enough Spanish in a few days to have fun on Cinco de Mayo. Throw in some bayou French to correctly order Cajun food and a bit of Arabic so as to not put a foot wrong on Mawlid al-Nabi, and all will be cool. Heck, since listening to BBC, I can even understand the British (still have bit of trouble understanding the Scots, though.)!
guf
What is an ethnic minority, really? It’s a person living within a culture that is foreign to them. As a person raised in ethnically white suburban American, I would love nothing more than to see my way of life become foreign to me and the sort of people I grew up with. But I don’t see that happening within my life time.
I find the question itself ignorant, though I can understand the need to ask it, if only for an excuse to point that out. One can’t believe that the color of a persons skin will change what they desire without first failing to judge them by “the content of their character.”
The character of immigrants and their descendants reveals that they want to be part of our culture, which regrettably means becoming selfish, materialistic and thoroughly ignorant of any world view, or perspective, that would reveal this sense of self-importance by comparrison to different cultural norms.
The one exception to those who want to “be like us” would be the few Native Americans who still remember and teach the old ways. It’s ironic that throughout US history, up until the civil rights movement for blacks, and beyond the urban relocation policies of the Eisenhower administration, it has been the official US government policy to discourage blacks from becoming more like whites (affluent and influential) and to encourage Indians to be less like themselves. (basically what every hippie wanted to be during that era)
What does the US government, or the powers that be in general, want so hard for us to forget? Who does it threaten really? And how.
Sorry, what was the question? Minorities or something like that? Nope. Don’t see that making a heck of a lot of difference.
When Golda Meir, Prime Minister of Israel, appealed to Henry Kissinger for assistance to Israel he wrote to her that he considers himself, “An American first, Secretary of State second, and a Jew third.”
She responded: “In Hebrew we read from right to left.”
Do the millions of Hispanics who have flooded America illegally in recent years consider themselves Americans first? It seems that many of them think of themselves as Americans last, or not at all. And they really should be making an effort to learn English rather than trying to impose Spanish on the host nation.
It must be very difficult and isolated (from the mainstream culture) to live in a country that speaks an alien language. Why immigrate to suffer? Maybe due to 3 main reasons: run away from authoritative regimes or wars, make more money, study then stay on. Any other reasons? Is this young country an accidental nation? Was it planned? Did it evolve without planning?
Upto date USA is melting part of the world because of the:-
– Strong Economy
– Strong Defance
– Multipal social & Cultural choices.
– Freedom.
– High Level Corruption.
Infact USA is in a contineous Transformation process because of migration & immegration policies been adopted by US Congress & followed by Executives of USA. Before WW no one even know about USA , those who know were scared from popularity of USA as semi terrorist society with a continous war with Natives of the land.
As far as Europen’s migration is concerned it started from Spain because of Muslims’s domination over 800 years & war’s between Roman’s & Arab Muslims.
Actually English Merchant Navy plays a dominating role with the help of Army to form a civil society in USA, as colonolism was the English pattern by that time.
As our society was fully dependant on manpower & Industrial revolution was at initial stages this is why English dominant authorities were eager to get manpower supply from European Society to maintain there supermacy, Command, controll & political authority to achieve the colonial object.
Because of WW Europe was an hell for Europeans in the presance of Marshall attitute, double standard & supermacy object in a competative way.
No doubt English priorities were White Dominating European Society, without any ethnic religious diversity & same pattern been followed in USA by way of encouraging Eastern European immigrants. The hardest part of this pattern was typical Evil white supermacy Injection by way of promoting hate, double standard, discrimination, diversity, lazyness, mental torcher & crimes against humanity.
No doubt these European’s migrant’s started there carrier from zero point & charity meals at New York harber, immediately after haveing typical “White Supermacy Injection” & adopting common society practice start claming ownership of USA with a typical abusive behaviour.
On the other hand a forced migration been made to this region too with abusive “SLAVERY” Legislative regeem. No doubt they started there carrier from Zero point, Charity meals at New York harber with an abusive, discramative, dishonor & disgracefull welcome in US society.
As far as mental & physical appearance’s are concerned appears to me the same may be African American’s seems to me physically stronger then Europeans.The reason of Discrenative welcome, getting along in society & legal structure is the mother of crimes against humanity in US society, though Legal Structure been fixed accordingly with out figouring out physical & emotional damges living in sick atmosphier & absouive society, as victom’s lost there identity, culture, values & education, most of the readers may not understand my point of view as they never live in AFRICA.
Only education is the key for diversified American society not the welfaire pride, the issue of colour, race & domination will be fixed automatically.
No doubt sustainable Economy, justified wealth distrubation will be the future problem’s of USA, as these factors always plays a key role in formation of an sustainable society skatch, as society transform by itself with little cooperation & coordenation of Govt & lower level law enforcement.
We may learn from South African peacefull transformation process as Black & white domination started from English society with a partial endorsement of Nazi Hitler & all this school of thought is histry. This is the time we suppose to find the solution’s of our mistakes as enough damaged been done by defecto school of thought, which is over.
The comment about mixed race people being better looking, smarter, etc is totally ignorant, untrue, and really lame and fetishistic. There are LOTS of mixed race people that are ugly as sin as they have the worst of both gene pools rather than the best. Intelligence has more to do with how smart the parents were, regardless of what color they were. And for many people around the world, mixed race people are less attractive because they look less like their original race and no longer fit their native beauty ideal.
We whites should look at the formerly white-controlled African Nations, whose historical abuses of non-whites are not so different from our own in the U.S. Theirs is a cautionary tale – one of how a controlling minority become, ignoring human rights in order to stay in control, incur the wrath of the people they have trampled underfoot.
In that case, I think they should go after Lou Dobbs and Glen Beck first.
@ Hiam Chipman,
Lou Dobbs and Glen Beck and Hiam Chipman. Have a nice day in dreamland, dude.
America will remain America…whatever the colour of the skin………….
Dennis
@ KayK
Some of us wear our ugliness on the outside; hence for us, it’s only skin deep. I’m guessing you think yourself good looking – and you very well might be. But I just had a glimpse of the person you are on the inside. I won’t spoil anyone’s supper with a description.
Cheers.
non whites will for the first time make up the majority in America since the first US census in 1790.
—————————————————————————————————
——- Why are non whites all classed together as “the other”?
The thread header is poorly worded unless racy racial tabloid headlines are what is desired.
The demographic trend is old news and at any rate, deeply flawed since it cannot count all the illegals who live in the shadows. What is new news is that the US may become a proxy state of Mexico if something is not done to solve the illegal immigration problem. Border skirmishes increasing as Mexican drug and human traffickers grow more powerful and take over border territories for criminal activities.
They will only be emboldened when the US is run out of Iraq and Afghanistan as is a distinct possibility. Russians may run them out of Eastern Europe.
What’s that old curse, “May you live in interesting times?” Could get interesting folks.
As far as I think America was never a country of Whites.Rather it is a country of Indiginous Americans and Whites came and ruled it for long time.So they are the People what we say now will happnen after few years.That means we fear now that asian and not native of America would invade and make the majority by year 2045.But this is what happened last centuries.Whites from different Europians countries and settled in America,so they themself are not native of America.
So I think as in coming years people from developing countries come and live in America or get settle down there.It would not make any difference it would still be America.When anyone live any country for several year we feel its our own country and so we would be American as we stay in America.
So I think that now American should not be worrying that the America wont be changed but rather America would be more diverese country and it might help America.
The Caucasians have been held accountable above the freedoms of their race. It is a given, that Hispanics and Negroids are promiscuous. To some falsified higher taboo standard the white race is being imprisoned by. That is as frank as it can be said.
But America never existed as it is programmed the world citizen. The same abusive subversion of the rich click, began the USA. At least to a lesser degree the USA citizen was imprisoned by their new government in the beginning. The quote IE., You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.” Came about out of the truth of what was known the government to be.
Now today the US Citizen is a brainwashed out, mind controlled people. Freedom like candy is proclaimed but it is a lie. Freedom exist only as long as it can be exploited. What is legal, right and correct today can just as swift in the next moment be a crime. A country that gives you anything, can and does when it is convenient, take it away too.
Piece out Caucasian race. If is is right for another race. It is alright for you too. In the 1960’s celebrated was free love and defiance against the corruption of government and any economical authoritative abuse. That was right then and it is right, now.
because it would have been easier to brainwash and manipulate leaders like Sakaashvili ,and of which many european countries will,i think the USA will be large than any other country as all its allies will become one large block/country known as the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.by 2042
THE LAST DON
play GEMS,not games
uthiru,kenya
why does this come as such a surprise,in the 60s =make love not war,catholic church= no birth control,the progress of equal rights, after the wars = ww2 in brittain the gov was short of labour so they imported from the west indies with no restrictions, they also opened the country to asia ,the result is there are whole towns that are asian ,and there are a lot of them ,i used to work in one and i was the only white person for miles,
dont get me wrong some of my friends are jamaican and asian and i have been in fights ,when someone has been racists ,what i am trying to say is ,govs control things as and when they see fit, and when equal rights and pc are added, what do they expect ,this is a natural progression ,no different than brits abroard they have enclaves,=spain /france,
if i lived in india/or pakistan and i heard i could do better in an other county ,
i would be on my way, look how many brits have gone to australia ,
hi every one ,
althought im a proud iraqi citizn, think there will be some slight changes,towards the best ofcours,i belive those people that victimised in the us will appreciate powre when the get it to serve humanity more ,because they know what does it mean if some one press on you and deal you as aslave.thus i belive it will be better if the coloured people(im sorry to use this word,but its source is from amireca)get the power.
thanks alot
hi every one
… ‘whites’ want this… ‘whites’ want that…. who let NY oil decide what ‘whites’ want…?
not talking to the average ‘white’ person? but you continue to use generalized language that could be construed as meaning all ‘whites’.
people will integrate with consecutive generations.
my only issue with the language is that i had to wait for 4 hours to get a passport. it took them 3 minutes to process my paperwork. why? everyone before me needed translation and to have their legality / birth certificates dealt with.
and ps: obama has a white mother. how easily people forget that. obama is the melting pot, neither black nor white.
America will remain America(as long as Russia doesn’t nuke us first), colour doesn’t matter. What matters is that our government not become something it is not inteneded to be – our Constitution is not a decument for socialist or communist…it gives us a Republic here. A government for the people by the people. Unfortunately we have people in the government that feel we cannot take control of our borders as other countries do. Something the Constitution says the government is suppose to do – protect its people. Having borders and laws like we have is it any reason we’re going the direction we’re going? A person can come north into the US illegally and give birth and the baby is a citizen of the US?!~ That is BS! That is why America needs to get rid of the people in charge and we get people in place that protect us from this kind of thing. And get rid of sanctuary cities – they are killing us – literally!
This topic is really nice, I am an Indian, still living in India.If you look into our country, we have a diiferent language, different living stlye, but whenever anything comes up againt India, we all stand up like one single country. I am 23 years old, working in an american multinational. The way I see it, the political senario is set to change, people make up the votes, a change in percentage will be an obvious change in policies.
As a white person this is somewhat frightening. As a white person, I’m proud of my heritage. White people are responsible for lots of great things like separation of church and state, courts, including equal rights for women and minorities.
I’m worried that other races might not share the white view of equal rights. It’s not surprising to me that a minority group or person would selfishly and justly work to empower their racial power and ensure equal treatment at the hands of another. This has been done by downtrodden and unfairly treated minorities throughout time and seems good. But to find a majority race or political group that voluntarily surrenders power to relatively powerless minority groups or members is rare. White America did exactly that. They gave of themselves to help others of different race and gender ensure their fair treatment. White America stood on principle and it has cost white America money and power that now rests in the hands of various minorities. So I worry, which of these minorities has a proven history of helping the other at their own expense? have black or Asians risen up in protest and enacted laws to promote the interests and rights of minorities where they are dominant? Or are they only interested in equality when it benefits them? the question is one of cultural values and I hope the new cosmopolitan non-majority-white doesn’t make give reason to regret the days of white majority values rule. I don’t think there is a good way to tell how a non-white majority would behave towards minorities. I suspect behavior and attitudes change when ones ethnic and social group is dominant. Life frat boys, some groups change scary when they get in a dominant situation while seeming obliging enough as a minority.
The supercession of the WASP hegemony should not be surprising. Was it not a Portuguese and a Spaniard who discovered the Americas? Unfortunately, humans being as they currently are nothing will change significantly.
steve, the ‘white view on equal rights’ may not be appropriate for many other cultures etc. the declaration of human rights had such ambiguity to it that each culture or state should have the freedom to design and tailor it to the right principles and values of society and not just take heed and advice from the white or western society where it originates from.
america will still be america, a country of immigrants just like my country singapore. policies would be have to be all encompassing no matter the percentage of races there are. about how americans being viewed outside america, for me it’ll just be a little awkward because i’ve grown up thinking all the whites are from america but the economy matters more that the composition of people. wouldnt it depend on their productivity, terms of trade and position as a world power as by then china, india and russia might have overtaken it and we’ll be looking at them instead.
@ all the people who question whether diversity has any value
Different cultures, different approaches, different perspectives – result in different solutions to problems. As an engineer, I’ve seen over and over that the teams with the most diversity come up with the widest range of ideas. And from that wider range of ideas – always comes the best idea.
If you doubt diversity has any value, I doubt you have had the experience of problem solving in a diverse team as versus a monoculture team. Once you do that you will understand completely.
Work is also more exciting when you’re in a group that comes up with a wider range of ideas. So, I would bet that a large portion of the U.S.’s higher productivity, technical innovation, and ingenuity is directly attributable to our diversity.
We should keep in mind, though, that race is definitely not the only way people can be diverse. You can have a group of strictly white people that are incredibly diverse in thinking and experience.
Finally, I’ve always thought diversity was more beautiful and enjoyable to work with. I can’t imagine living and working in a world of grayness. Diversity is valuable for that reason alone.
There are quite a few things addressed in the comments that, quite frankly, scare me. The fact that so many people are upset about immigrants not speaking English (or not speaking it well) is something that is directly reflected in the way immigrants are treated in society. Most people who come to the US are adults who may not have had the opportunity (via education) to learn English before the came here. As a result of the language barriers as well as their immigrant status, they are forced to work jobs for wages that US citizens would deem unacceptable- I mean when was the last time any of you tried to support a family on $6.65 and hour? I can guarantee you that those who make that little are working more than one job, and if that’s the case, when are they supposed to have time to take language classes five days a week for 4+ years like those of us who boast knowing a 2nd language because we took classes in high school and college? People whose native language isn’t English may be forced to learn thru emersion only which is not an easy thing to do, especially when there are so many US citizens who refuse to learn their language and are incapable of helping because they can’t communicate. What are those of you who complain doing to help these people learn English? Speaking slowing while yelling really doesn’t work!
As for the US culture, customs and values argument, what exactly are you referring to? US culture seems fairly shallow, centering on capitalism and wealth; customs may include bigotry and hostility towards the “others” (anyone not like us), and values can include carrying guns, preaching that homosexuals are going to burn in hell and stating that the people shouldn’t have to pay for others to have health insurance, but complain when our tax money flips the bill when someone is hospitalized. I know these views are not held by all Americans, but they are held by a significant number, enough so that these are nationally debated issues.
One thing to keep in mind is that the US has a tendency to criticize the cultures of others, saying that they should keep it too themselves and conform to the mainstream, while at the same time picking that culture apart and taking the pieces that are entertaining and taking them as our own. Cinco de Mayo, St. Patties Day, ethnic restaurants, salsa dancing, Jazz music etc- why is it ok for people to celebrate US approved cultural traditions and events in public, but people put up a fight when were asked to embrace the whole?
The US has used intimidation and violence to force people to conform to mainstream ideals. Native American children were forced into white boarding schools to strip them of their native language and heritage up thru the 1980’s and that’s a direct cause of so many tribes no longer knowing their native language. The US is going to change whether people want it to or not. Politics may take a while, and there will most likely be more minority politicians who are viewed as not having the “true whatever racial experience”, but that’s a direct result of the difference in opportunities between minorities and low income individuals of any race.
What concerns me about the question and the majority of responses is the implied attitude that the US is somehow a bad nation for being majority white and needs to change. While other cultures/nations struggle to finally see the majority of their citizens represented by their governments (e.g., South Africa, Tibet, South Ossetia)- and I am certain that the majority of readers here support these causes- there is this idea that it is somehow wrong that a nation made up of 66% white/Europeans should be dominated by that group. I don’t follow this logic. Whites are the majority in the US- why shouldn’t their needs/ideas be most fully represented in the culture? Blacks and hispanics only make up about 13% each of the US population- and Asians only a fraction of the total. Despite these statistics, the US government (and even more so the US media) bends over backwards to accommodate these groups and to create an environment of inclusion. But this doesn’t seem to satisfy the youth of the world, who I think have been largely brainwashed by the idea that white is simply bad. Has not anything good come out of white/European culture? The marvelous technological and economic principles brought by Western culture can’t be conveniently ignored (which include this website and our ability to chat on it, and all of the liberal democratic ideas presented in it). I think a better question to ask is, “in the 30+ years that whites will continue to be a majority in the US, will the minorities seek inclusion as the whites have, and will the tradition of progress toward liberal ideals and economic progress continue?”
I think that people aren’t saying that a majority white US is a “bad” thing but that the representation of whites in government, media, pops culture etc, that the needs/ideas of the minorities aren’t being represented fairly at all. When segregation was legal it was because of the will of the white majority and the elected officials making the laws (all white), but did that make it fair or right to the minority? This is veering slightly away from the original topic, but is it fair for the majority to be represented to such a degree that the minority suffers? The US stands on the principle of equal rights for all but that sometimes only plays out in theory. There are laws and systems in place (i.e. the educational system) that intrinsically disadvantage the minority. How can someone “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” if they don’t have access to the same opportunities as everyone else?
When people hear that there will be a shift in the demographic, its viewed as a good thing because maybe those who have gotten the short end of the stick will finally have enough support to institute changes that will truly benefit them as well.
@Jeff
I agree with your statement about the U.S. being perceived as a bad nation. I knew that there were some countries that disliked the U.S. but with reading posts here I have realized just how much. Many of the good things that the U.S. does and tries to do are simply dismissed. There is no making everyone happy.
@ Lauren
It is very interesting to hear that the white majority is making laws that are only benefiting them when CLEARLY there are white people who live in poverty as well. Why not make it a minority issue only? There are people of EVERY race that are disadvantaged who need help.
American will always live and act like Americans regardless of their race or color.
If the population of white Americans decrease, let them blames satan and their leaders. In most states in America most white Americans are higher rate of satanic evil of homosexual and lesbians. This is main reasons the white Americans will depopulated even it will be worst if the next leader become of homosexual and lesbian member. Although some of the white Americans may thinks their population is about 64% but the higher percentage of these people are 65 and above this means the age people are many than young ones out of these lower population of young people are lesbian and homosexual. This will show that the Homosexual and lesbian is another indirect weapons that will finish the white Americans poplulation. There is some history of Americans soliders are encourages by their government to use homosexual and lesbians as the part of their services these means they will lost their part in wars and these evil act will decrease their number too.
for amirica to be what it is today it was the strnth of mixed ethnic groups.whether being dominated by non whites or not its srenth will continue to grow high
@ Jennifer
I didn’t mean for it to sound like there are no white people living in poverty- I know that there are. However, there are a disproportionate number of people of color living in poverty and so the current laws are affecting more communities of color on a wider scale. The US is the wealthiest nation in the world- we shouldn’t have the poor or the homeless, but we do.
This country has been run by the same type of people since it was founded -all privileged, all highly educated, a majority white and only recently included both sexes. This group has not done enough to help people of ANY race living in poverty, but you have to admit that in the nation’s eye, the face of poverty is a minority. Whenever there’s a story about welfare, its a minority you see and I think that that image and all the stories out there about the few people who abuse the welfare system, has had a negative influence on the way a lot of people view social services, and so funds are perpetually pulled and programs cut.
As I said in my last comment, if there is a shift in the demographic there will eventually be a shift in policy. What’s important to an upper-middle class white family of 4 is not the same as a lower-class family of 4 of ANY race.
I guess follow up question to ask would be will America still be America if the poor are the majority?
America will be America regardless. The people with the most influence in this country are the people with money, regardless of their culture. So I don’t see any major difference happening soon.
@ Lauren
To suggest that minorites are under represented or only negatively represented in the culture is flatly inaccurate. The next time you go to the movies, take a look at how many actors are black, and how many are the protagonists; how many of the most popular musicians are black; how nearly all TV and print ads now have black faces selling their products. Blackness in the American culture has become a fad, with black faces showing up far in excess of their actual representation in society. I wouldn’t concern myself with this if it weren’t a deliberate phenomenon, promoted for personal, racial, and financial gain, and resulting in some of the most vulgar pop trends and images we have ever witnessed in this or any other country. It also comes at the expense and neglect of other ethnicities in society. This trend has certainly benefitted the Obama campaign, and led to wholly wrong perceptions about the US, both within and outside it borders.
But I think your main point is that poverty issues should be better attended in the US, and this somehow boils down to race, and thus having less whites represented in the culture over time would somehow cure this. I think this is bad reasoning. Race and poverty are not directly correlated. Since it’s making headlines these days, consider the population of Georgia. Virtually everyone in that country is poor- much poorer on average than every citizen of the US. And virtually every Georgian citizen is white, including the politicians.
I think that racism in politics is rarely a cause of poverty, anywhere in the world, least of all in the US. Poverty has more to do with basic cultural and structural deficiences, and entrenched class disparities. These classes come in all colors, depending on where in the world you are looking, and mostly the same color as the masses of those countries. So I ask, is it possible that racism in politics is not the cause of poverty in the US in our time? Is it even possible that poverty in the US is not our greatest problem, compared to the undeniable problem of the poverty of other nations?
You say that white politicians in the US have “not done enough to help people of ANY race living in poverty.” Are you certain of this? To what standard do you hold your government, yourself? Is it possible that a free capitalist society that provides the greatest opportunities for most citizens, despite enormous efforts to maintain a baseline for all ethnicities, simply can’t guarantee a healthy, poverty free existence for all? And isn’t poverty about income levels, and not pigment levels? Why should race even be a consideration when it comes to public policy?
While I appreciate the idealism in your comments, as responsible adults it is also our duty to grow into pragmatic ideas about what we can and can’t accomplish, and be fair to ourselves about our relative successes. Living on ideals alone leaves you chronically disappointed, with a tendency toward dislike of one’s self and one’s own culture. Such idealism also permits you to excuse the failings of other cultures and peoples, somehow instead believing them to be the result of your own nation’s failings.
You only need look at other less developed nations to see just how far ahead the US has been on social policies and in cultivating tolerance over the last 50 years. (And if we need reminding, slavery ended 150 years ago in the US and the Civil Rights Act was passed before I was born.) What we are not good at is holding other cultures and other governments accountable for their own failures. We are taught to see only the US failures, and then only failures of white culture. Such is our liberal education and media. Our successes have left us feeling guilty, soft, and unprepared for the responsibility and hard decisions that come with leadership. And instead we turn our fears inward, looking to discredit ourselves and find fault in our greatest acheivements and endeavors, no matter how noble.
I am not so sanguine about potential dominance of other cultures in the US, but I do agree that most people first and foremost accept the freedoms and opportunities of this nation as what’s best and most worth preserving, and this being the common denominator that binds us all, should permit the US to remain strong and resiliant.
Politics, by the very nature of democracy, is biased towards one group or another. The majority vote has a greater say than the minority by way of election and to argue that racism or bigotry has NOT been a huge contribution to poverty is ridicules. Have you forgotten that 50-60 years ago, blacks couldn’t use the same restrooms as whites? That they couldn’t attend the same schools, and had little or no opportunity to attend college? That they weren’t allowed to work in various sectors because of the color of their skin As a direct result of those RACIST laws that were in affect in THIS country, there are a great many minority students who are 1st generation college students because their parents/grandparent were not allowed to go to college. How can you say that with all those opportunities barred from a certain groups based solely on race, that race in politics has had little influence on poverty? Basic cultural and structural deficiences, and entrenched class disparities are a result of institutionalized racisim that occurred blatently in the past and still exists within policies today. While those policies may not appear to directly target minorties, they target low-income areas that are predominatly black, hispanic, etc.
I’m not saying that when making public policies, we should think “well, what’s going to benefit blacks? What will benefit whites?” etc, however, to argue that the differences in income don’t correlate to race dosen’t look at the whole picture. Accourding to the US Dept of Commerce Census Bureau Community Survey in 2005, 10% of white familes with kids under 18yrs lived in poverty, compared to 30.1% of black families, 25.6% of hispanic families.
Poverty, racism, ethnocentrism, etc in other nations far surpasses that in the US, but for a nation who boasts being the “leader of the free world” and promotes the ideals of democracy and equality to the rest of the world (especially those develpoing nations suffering), shouldn’t we place more effort into addressing our own faults before we preach to others? As a US citizen, I want my country to be strong and provide a positive example for other nations. I want other nations to be able to benefit and grow from our success as well because we’re all human, and human suffeing anywhere is unacceptable. However, as an Africian-American woman in the US, I want the oppertunities for myself, my family and my community to be equal to those who have been privaliged in this society since the get-go. I strongly believe that with a change in the color of America, there will be a change in the mindset of America that will allow our country to better realize those ideals that we hold dear.
I disagree with all those who say America will not change or, if it does this is whatit should have been in the first place. Our common language is already threatened. The ridiculous Executive Order 13166 issued by Clinton required ballots to be printed in many languages at the same time as a requirement for citizenship is a knowledge of English. Obviously the latter is not being enforced or falls far short of a fluency requirement. If you must be a citizen to vote and you must know English to be a ciitzen, then ergo there should be no need for multi-lingual ballots and other government materials. So language is one adverse effect of the majority minority.
The social integration and cultural and linguistic assimilation necessary for a cohesive nation is being eroded every day by the establishment of enclaves which are simply transplants of the cultures and peoples of other countries that defy the melting pot concept.
Although there are exceptions to every rule, the addition of many people from countries whose record of economic and scientific achievement, as measured by the number of Nobel prizes awarded, is certain to dilute the talent pool and de-emphasize those sorts of measures of advanced civilization.
Hand in hand with the majority minority phenomenon is population growth which is certain to negatively impact America. And most of that growth is in the minorities because of their higher fertility rates. In fact it is due almost entirely to the numbers of new immigrants and their progeny because the fertility rate of American women is at or near the replacement level.
Aside the issues of the changes in America that make it more difficult for assimilation to be successful, there is therefore the issue of our burgeoning population. The limit of finite natural resources per capita as population grows without bounds is zero. The question then becomes how far down that road do we and the world want to go. Not far, I think. It is downright dumb to believe that population driven economic growth is sustainable in the long run.
Fine points, Gordon.
@ Lauren:
I think we are beginning to reveal the cultural heritage of our liberal educations in America, and the biased ideas we’ve been encouraged to accept.
Inheritance of poverty from past discrimination was a fact at one point in America’s history. But it is not of our generation, nor of any recent one. To conclude that higher incidence of poverty in certain ethnic groups in 2008 is the result of racism is no longer a valid argument. You point out yourself that discriminatory laws existed some 50-60 years ago. This was before your life began (and mine too). Those laws left our shores with the adoption of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. This history was not in your experience, nor mine, and probably not even your parents.
And there is also the false perception that those discriminatory laws existed everywhere in the US. Just like slavery itself, they existed only in certain states, a small minority of the whole (even at slavery’s peak, slavers made up less than 1% of the nation’s population, and slaves themselves only amounting to a minority percentage). To paint the whole nation with these stripes is an injustice to all the people and states that never endorsed slavery or discriminatory laws- which, by the way, was always the majority of the population- and a slap to those whites and their present day heirs that fought and lost their lives in the civil war to end slavery (whites, of course, suffering the overwhelming majority of casualties).
There is also the fact of relative cultural success in the black American community during the 40s-50s, even despite legally enforced separatism in parts of society. So you have to ask, what happened after Civil Rights? What happened after we all became equal under the eyes of the law, after a slew of social welfare polices came into being? Can you honestly argue that the failings in parts of the black community in the 70s-90s- break up of families, increased crime and drugs, higher drop outs- was a result of institutionalized racism? That their higher incidence of poverty in 2008 is only a result of past discrimination and slavery, despite the many laws and programs enacted over the past 60 years to try to level the playing field?
This is a cheat of the facts, particularly in light of those families of various cultures that come to our shores with no money at all, but who embrace basic ideas of strong family, education, and hard work, and manage to build some security for themselves and their children (the statistics of Asian families in America should provide a strong example). “But they were never slaves,” you might argue. Neither were you, or your friends, or your family, or anyone alive today. You’ve always had the right to vote, and more financial and educational opportunities than 2/3rds of the people on the planet- throughout its entire history.
I should point out these successes include many black families, as blacks in America now enjoy a higher standard of living than at any other time (and a higher standard of living over most other nations of the world). Welcome to the middle class. I suspect yours is among such families, as you are clearly a product of higher education. I should point out that I was not born into any privilege myself: my mother was a single parent on welfare (who retired in complete financial bankruptcy), and my father (a drug addict and alcoholic) left before I had any memory of his face. I have had no inheritance of any kind, and have had only my wits to carry myself and to exploit the opportunities and potential benefits the American system offers.
So even though it is a minority of the overall black population, why are 30% of black families poor in America? I repeat- racism is not the root cause of poverty in America in 2008. Where failures exist and poverty persists in this day and age is in those families and communities that reject these basic national ideals, and instead embrace youth-driven nihilistic attitudes and vacant here-and-now consumerism. This is true of any culture (Palestine being a prime example). As Cosby said, it is analgesic for the black community to speak of what the white man has done to the black man in America- but it avoids hard facts and harder truths in the 21st century about the persistence of poverty and the breakdown of families in some communities in this country.
The question I put to you is, why are you so quick to look back 60 years to find evidence for your arguments? What evidence do you have to support your grievances in this day and age? Do you claim to speak for poorer communities and past generations simply because you are black? Just what “mindset” do you think is preventing our country from “realizing those ideals we hold dear”? Many immigrants do in fact hold these ideals dear, and many find some measure of success as a result. How do you account for this?
I challenge you to describe those institutionalized racist policies that “still exist with us today”. Just what are they? And just what more racially balanced laws would you expect to come from a poor majority leadership in the US? Higher taxes? More social programs? The same ones that have failed over the last 60 years? The same ones failing in most developing countries? The same kinds of policies that have been rejected by the most successful emerging economies like China and India? Do you look to Cuba, or Bolivia, or Zimbabwe for guidance on social policy?
You say you seek the same opportunities as the historically privileged in this country, but this is wholly unrealistic. The privileged are the privileged by way of their wealth and personal political connectedness, and a change in race of the most privileged will not ever earn you or I the same opportunities as them, even if we share their same color (unless they are in fact you or members of your direct family or direct circle of friends). Look at a great many of the regimes in Africa post-independence. A change in color at the top has in most cases resulted in worse standards of living for the majority of citizens. Just feel content that such overwhelming and exclusive power to steal at the top does not now exist and hopefully will never come to pass in America’s future.
And I can’t pass on your comment that “a change in the color of America” will somehow produce better governance. Isn’t this a fundamentally racist idea? That somehow our race is the seat of our ideals and objectives, and that minority colors will be racially predisposed to do a better job of governance than whites? Despite your intent to paint a more harmonious future, there is really an ugly idea underneath it all, and shows how far away we are from judging only the content of each other’s characters, how little we actually regard the ideal that “the best should rise, regardless of color”, and that racism has grown roots in America in colors other than white (particularly among youth, who can have no legitimate claims of oppression, yet find it trendy and convenient to dislike white- even whites themselves).
What this discussion has highlighted about American culture is that certain colors retain the right of grievance, well beyond their actual experience or suffering, well beyond what any time, fact, or law can concede. Many of us have been conditioned to simply accept unearned guilt, and unearned grievances, without examining the facts. This is our liberal tradition. Even proclaiming yourself African American is a conceded privilege in our culture. I am white, and will always be called white. Mostly I am just an American. Our shared American experience, language, and history binds us closer than any other claims to foreign ancestors and cultures. You may not like it (and you have been encouraged not to by our culture). But it is fact. Travel to any part of Africa, and you will see (maybe you already have). You will always be American first, and only incidentally black.
And anyway, Africa is a continent of many nations, cultures and races, with Asian, Arab, and white populations who consider themselves to be perfectly African (more authentically African than you or I will ever be). If you are of recent African descent then perhaps you already know this (and in which case you are not “African American”, but “Sudanese-American”, or simply “family from Kenya”, or “from the Ethiopian community”, etc.). But if not, I think it something of a conceit for any American who is not recently from the continent to claim this heritage as their own.
We have witnessed here a sad fact about the American melting pot: it has not been stirred in some time. We are insular in our ideas and expectations, and in fact most of us are quick to proclaim unique identities to gain some immediate advantage. We see this on university campuses, in our media, and chat rooms all over (which together represent the spoiled seat of idle discontent in this country). For this I worry about minorities encouraged to avenge in the present, some perceived historical grievances from the past (and not even their own past). We see the worst of these conflicts play out all over the world (Kosovo, Rwanda, Iraq, etc.). I want to think we are above this in America. But our race tainted election (and our conversation right here) proves the real political currency such thinking still affords many groups in our country.
Sorry for the long posting, Clearly, it is an important subject to me.
Why do I look to the past to make a point about current conditions in society today? Because the past matters! Just because you say people are equal on paper does not instantaneously level the playing field. People weren’t suddenly offered well paying jobs; just because they had access to higher education doesn’t mean they could afford it.
Let’s say that race has had absolutely no bearing on anyone’s financial situation in the US- that still doesn’t change the fact that there are more minorities living in poverty than whites. Its another fact that you need money to pay for things- you need money for rent; you need money for transportation, food, clothing; you need money for education: college, tutors, computers, books etc. “The best should rise, regardless of color” is a beautiful concept, one that I hope will one day be true, but how can they rise if the field isn’t level? Opportunities are available to those with money that aren’t available to without. Surely you’ve noticed that? Haven’t you, at any point in your life, had a path closed to you because of your financial situation or your mothers?
In many states, a large portion of public school funding is derived from property taxes. While the way the funds are distributed varies from state to state, in many states school districts where the property tax revenue is higher receive more funding. Schools with less money available cannot provide the same level of education as those with adequate funding. If someone went to a high school with a poor academic program, it can be harder for them to get into college; it may even be something that they never really considered an option. All you have to do is start looking at some of the better paying jobs to see that a B.A., B.S. Masters or PhD is preferred or required. I recommend you read (if you haven’t already) Savage Inequalities or The Shame of the Nation both by Jonathan Kozol. They both present the argument that the poor quality of education provided by public schools in low-income neighborhoods hinders a childs ability to “rise” in society. If those inequilities exist now, what do you think they were like for our parents and grandparents?
I don’t mean to sound like “all white people are bad and all minorities are oppressed” because that’s not the point I’m trying to make. All I’m saying is that it’s only been, what, 2 generations since segregation was legal? How can anyone expect for every inequality to even out in such a short amount of time? I’m also not trying to say that a black government will make everything alright- I’m saying that because the number of minorities who fall into the middle, lower and flat out poor classes is fairly high, and because votes DO matter, there is a possibility that an increase in minorities (which doesn’t necessarily mean there will be an increase in their financial status) may call more attention to the problems that they face. And maybe, just maybe, democracy will prevail and the majority will be heard, politicians elected who represent those views and policies will change. I don’t speak for the black community; I’m sharing my opinion that’s based on my experiences and what I’ve seen in my life and in my community.
FYI:
I spent 6 years of my childhood being raised by my grandmother while my grandfather was in jail and my mother was in rehab. When my mother did get custody of myself and my brother, we were also raised in a single parent household with a mother who worked (and still works) 3 three jobs. I have been working multiple jobs since I was 16. I am not in college and have only a high school degree.
In order to have a true American Republic, we have to accept each other as we are on the inside without regards to race, creed, colour, ethnicity, and external beauty.
what is america or who is an american? an american is one who has left behind all his previous prejudice behind and taken up a new role to be partrotic to this new America.I guess america will not change if blacks are the majority.Who owns America anyway.Nobody is my answer