08
Aug
08

Talking Points August 8

Goodmorning, it’s Karnie..

Thanks to everyone who stepped in last night to moderate the blog!

As the International Aids conference in Mexico comes to an end, Red Cross representative, Dr Mukesh Kumar says that despite unprecedented financial support for the disease, this was still not good enough. He says: “We are still confounded by the fact that we’re not doing enough against the epidemic”.

AIDS is the world’s fourth leading cause of death. It’s still NOT the world’s leading cause of death. But take a look at this article which says, despite the billions of dollars of funding AIDS receives, it’s still never enough..Syracuse University professor Jeremy Shiffman, sees the increased attention that AIDS receives as both a cause for celebration and concern. He says: “It is reason for concern because there is growing evidence that the extensive focus on this one disease is crowding out resources for the many other causes of death and illness of the poor in the developing world.” Is AIDS hijacking the world’s health agenda? OR are other diseases/illnesses being ignored because of AIDS?

***

Pakistan’s ruling coalition is moving to impeach President Musharraf. If he is impeached this may potentially be a critical blow to the west as he is considered a key ally in the War on Terror. Asif Ali Zardari, head of the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP), which leads the coalition Government, accused Mr Musharraf of: “conspiring with opposition parties to undermine the country’s transition to democracy”. He says an impeachment of President Musharraf would be “good news for democracy”. Do you agree? Will the impeachment of President Musharaff strengthen democracy in Pakistan?

***

And..are Wedding Lists..as Melanie Reid of the Times writes, a vulgar impertinence? Have you ever been is a position where you’ve been invited to a wedding and the gift list is VERY SPECIFIC? And do you follow it? (it’s pretty hard not too). When I got married and suggested a wedding list to my family, some of them were quite offended that I was actually asking for very specific gifts. They said they wanted to buy my husband and I something they liked and they felt was appropriate and probably more affordable.

Even though I was disappointed then, I must admit when I receive wedding invites these days, I am easily offended at most suggestions as to what a bride and groom would prefer and find some of them quite cheeky..so why can’t we just give a bridal couple what WE would consider special? In some cultures to actually ask for gifts is considered highly rude l(ike the way Melanie Reid suggests)..Is it offensive to include a wedding list in an invite and should guests give what they are able to?


140 Responses to “Talking Points August 8”


  1. 1 nelsoni
    August 7, 2008 at 20:19

    Hello every one,

    Hi Will, You beat me to it, I was already writing a blog post. I will co-moderate with you until the mod’ for the night turns up.

    Critics call it journalism on the cheap, unskilled hacks putting out stories that are heavy on opinion and light on fact. Supporters say Citizen reporters provide independent, accurate, reliable information that the traditional media doesn’t provide, goes the argument.

    Citizen Journalism, The face of new media?

  2. 2 Shirley
    August 7, 2008 at 20:27

    @ admins:
    Will is awesome, give him a raise, too.

    Looks like I missed a very cool on air tday. How did it go?

  3. 3 Dennis
    August 7, 2008 at 20:28

    Welcome Will!

    Today, was my last class for the summer here!

    TIME TO PACK!

    Dennis
    Syracuse, New York

  4. August 7, 2008 at 20:44

    Hi to Will and nelsoni, this story just came up on abc news that Iraqi and American officials have reportedly agreed on 2010 october for American troops withdrawal from Iraq. Nelson could you please get the link on abc news as I can’t cuz I’m blogging from mobile phone.

  5. 5 steve
    August 7, 2008 at 20:51

    9 dead, 10 injured in a single car, SUV accident. Apparently they had 19 people in a Suburban.

    http://www.abc15.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=9012a386-02f3-409f-9fcc-877f0c6d95b3

  6. 6 Julie P
    August 7, 2008 at 20:54

    Yet one more graduate of the Naomi Campbell school of airline etiquette. It appears as the Mrs. Victoria Olsteen lost her cool on a Continental flight. So much for “Living Your Best Life Now”.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/07/osteen.wife.trial.ap/index.html

  7. August 7, 2008 at 21:02

    The news is like a gospel. Everyone wants to be the first to take credit for spreading it. Like the amateur footage of the 9/11, an eye witness account of a murder, accident etc. The news is for everyone’s consumption. That is why WHYS bloggers are increasing like converts of a new religion.

  8. August 7, 2008 at 21:14

    Turning over security to the iraqis is the best move america and her allies. The longer they stay, the more perennial the instability becomes. Iraqis do not see America as a liberator but rather an occupier. They see America as a marauder running in their territory searching for booties(fuels and oils). This is the underlining courage of the insurgency.

  9. 11 Shirley
    August 7, 2008 at 21:16

    Gardens
    Luz María: I love oregano tea. It is great to ease PMS cramps. K raro, I knew that oregano is useful for suppressing flare-ups of H. simplex and other viral infections, but I didn’t know that it had pain-killing potential. Ginger has not only pain-killers and anti-inflammatories, but also anti-cramping and anti-anxeity chemicals. It might even also be a diuretic. I know that it has zingibain, a proteolytic enzyme, so I suspect it of also flushing water from the body. A woman’s best friend. You get a medicinal dose from half a litre to 750 mL of ginger ale, like Vernor’s. It never hurts to drop some powdered or grated fresh ginger in for added benefit. I’ve found, though, that adding ground ginger can turn the taste of the soda so that it’s more a medicine and less a confection.

    Number of words: 140

  10. August 7, 2008 at 21:19

    Will, steppin up, taking the bull by the horns, running with it, taking control… Ok, I’m done now; Good lookin out WIll 🙂

    @ 19 idiots packing into 1 SUV

    DPS officials said they believe all the patients are U.S. border crossers and suspected undocumented immigrants.

    I see….

  11. 13 Jens
    August 7, 2008 at 21:20

    66 months for driver.

    looks like the case was not as tight as the goverment assumed. I mean these are officers of the USArmy that have come to this sentence. It makes be proud to life in a country where the military has so much common sense. shows a true separation of powers.

  12. 14 Jens
    August 7, 2008 at 21:22

    steve,

    must have been tiny people, that is the reason why vikings make poor illegal immigrants. we are just too tall. 😉

  13. 15 Robert
    August 7, 2008 at 21:27

    Troop withdrawal

    Is this like the British plans to pull troops out of Brasa at the start of 2008? I’m sure the plans will either be vague enough that it says nothing or have enough if’s and but’s and technical terms so that it can be twisted without ever strictly violating it.

  14. 16 Jens
    August 7, 2008 at 21:28

    Oh dear never critize white trailer trash, even when it is rich trailer trash…..or is it now PC to call them mobil-living-white-trash…………

    the declination must be going stupid, absolutly stupid, total moron, lohan….

    http://omg.yahoo.com/news/michael-dina-lohan-fire-back-at-anderson-cooper/11670?nc

  15. 17 Jens
    August 7, 2008 at 21:28

    Oh dear never critize white trailer trash, even when it is rich trailer trash…..or is it now PC to call them mobil-living-white-trash…………

    the declination must be going stupid, absolutly stupid, total moron, lohan….

    http://tinyurl.com/5hr6no

  16. 18 Will Rhodes
    August 7, 2008 at 21:31

    Brett –

    I just can’t imagine how the logistics will work in repatriating 12 million people.

    It is mind-boggling to me. OK – some will call it an amnesty but – 12 million people? How?

    Shirley – I can’t get a raise because I ain’t paid – but thanks anyway. LOL

  17. 19 Will Rhodes
    August 7, 2008 at 21:32

    Thanks, Nelson.

    I am sure the other Mods will help out, too. 🙂

  18. 20 Jens
    August 7, 2008 at 21:38

    Will,

    i will pay you twice the going rate….. 😉

  19. 21 Jens
    August 7, 2008 at 21:39

    Will,

    I forgot. You cannot tell me that nothing is not significantly more than absolutly nothing.

  20. 22 Shirley
    August 7, 2008 at 21:41

    Nelson: Islam’s ultimate aim is Islamize the whole world by what ever means necessary. So the rest of the world needs to be concerned.

    Actually, nelson, that is the goal of a particular faction of Muslims who think that it is necessary to re-establish the Caliphate. They have no backing from mainstream Muslim scholars, as a site:qa.sunnipath.com or site:www.sunnah.org or site:ww.al-islam.org search on Google would reveal. I did the qa.sunnipath.com one, and the best that I got was a passing reference to the historical but now long gone Caliphate. Now, if the aim of most of us were to re-establish the Caliphate, it would be blasted from every corner of most of our websites so that the huge number of youth who peruse their pages would have said wacky idea entrenched in their heads. Even the Salafists don’t go nuts over the “campaign to bring back the Calphate” like these guys do, and they’re wacky enough.

    Just to clarify, when I post under the “World Domination” heading, it is part of a running joke that started here at WHYS. Other than my twisted sense of humour, I and millions of other Musims on planet earth are perfectly sane individuals who want to live our lives and leave the rest of you alone.

  21. August 7, 2008 at 21:41

    Nelsoni, you are always there for me, Thnx. @Jens, I totally agree with you. That in fact makes me proud of you the Americans. Had that been them, the penalty would have been death by beheading without trial.

  22. 24 Shirley
    August 7, 2008 at 21:43

    Luz María: I love oregano tea. It is great to ease PMS cramps. K raro, I knew that oregano is useful for suppressing flare-ups of H. simplex and other viral infections, but I didn’t know that it had pain-killing potential. Ginger has not only pain-killers and anti-inflammatories, but also anti-cramping and anti-anxeity chemicals. It might even also be a diuretic. I know that it has zingibain, a proteolytic enzyme, so I suspect it of also flushing water from the body. A woman’s best friend. You get a medicinal dose from half a litre to 750 mL of ginger ale, like Vernor’s. It never hurts to drop some powdered or grated fresh ginger in for added benefit. I’ve found, though, that adding ground ginger can turn the taste of the soda so that it’s more a medicine and less a confection.

  23. 25 Virginia Davis
    August 7, 2008 at 21:45

    Oh my gracious: another rude white preacher’s wife caught with her elbow in a flight attendant’s chest! News can be so chatty! Note: potential jurors: some in awe of said wife; others just don’t like the breed.

    And then there is “they” packing nineteen people in an SUV and many souls departed. Of course the “they” are some of those tiresome people crossing a border for a better job. Real clue: the “they” of those people, the others, the lawbreakers.

    Think I’ll take a couple hours off…..

    Virginia in Oregon

  24. August 7, 2008 at 21:45

    @robert, I think it will be good for us to know the detail. In any case, the Americans will be needed in Iraq for a long time to come.

  25. 27 Shirley
    August 7, 2008 at 21:49

    Bob, I suspected something when he failed to respond to that funky script that I posted. If Asad really were a pro-Caliphate wacko, he would have read my testification of faith (the funky script), surmised that I am a Shia Musim, and immediately have declared me an infidel subject to execution under Shari`ah (not shar’iah – the `ayn is between the ya and double-dotted ha, not the ra and ya). By the way, Shari`ah is the same thing that tells me to pray five times a day, respond to someone else’s greeting, give to charity, and fast the month of Ramadan. It isn’t all flogs, chains (hi, J in SanFran) and decapitation. If we’re going to debate religion, let’s be respectful and sensible about it. ^5, TQ

  26. August 7, 2008 at 21:54

    @shirley and nelson, I’m launching a campaign to make the world religious free. With this we’ll not have to contend with extremism be it islamic or christianity.

  27. 29 Jonathan
    August 7, 2008 at 21:55

    Terrible to hear about 19 people coming to grief in one SUV. Oh, wait, they weren’t people, they were “aliens?” In that case, of course, no problem.

    I’m assuming they were from Scotland “)

    @Shirley, I hate like heck to tell you missed it… but the show was great today. One of the better ones. You can listen to the podcast, right?

  28. 30 nelsoni
    August 7, 2008 at 22:03

    @ Shirley

    The liberals support their arguments from the Qu’ran, the fundamentalists also supports their arguments from that same Qu’ran. The fundamentalists call the liberals “infidels”, the Shia muslims say one thing, the Sunni muslims say another. So who is right or wrong? For the man outside this circle, forming an opinion now becomes a matter of convenience.

    in between I participated LIVE on the show today, I said a few things to rock the house
    the wacko arabic script appeared as incomprehensible characters

    @ Mohammed Ali : That’s mission impossible

  29. 31 Robert
    August 7, 2008 at 22:07

    @Mohammed

    I’m sure they will release the details but as I said it will be so flexible to be nearly meaningless.

    Just from that article for instance how to you define combat troops? Are armed US military advices nested with Iraqi police on the streets covered by this? If not then US troops will still be on the streets after 2010.

  30. August 7, 2008 at 22:08

    @19 people, I will not ride anything to enter any country illegally.

  31. August 7, 2008 at 22:11

    Will and Nelsoni, Sheikh Dukuly said he has several times but can’t see it. Pls check the system.

  32. 34 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 7, 2008 at 22:11

    Shirley
    My mother used to give me oregano tea when I was a teenager suffering from PMS cramps. It worked wonders for me. Maybe it was my mind that did the trick…

    Jonathan
    Can I assume that your comment was sarcastic, right?

  33. 35 Shirley
    August 7, 2008 at 22:15

    Amber Alert
    A Texas woman has been accused of kidnapping five children for whom she was caring after their family fled Katrina/New Orleans. The woman enjoyed caring for the children entirely too much. She also sounds a bit off. The mother doesn’t sound like an angel, either. Still, not excuse for kidnapping.

    From the Dallas News article:
    The children and their mother, Erica Alphonse, have been living with Ms. Tavey since their displacement by Katrina, but for several weeks Ms. Tavey has refused to turn the children over to their mother. “Their parents are into drugs, crime, and I know God put these kids into my hands to take care of,” she said. Ms. Tavey said she left her Houston home with the children July 11 after Ms. Alphonse threatened her with a knife over a financial issue. She had also been threatened by the children’s father, she said.

  34. 36 Robert
    August 7, 2008 at 22:19

    Mohammed

    Surely forcing an atheist belief/agenda/dogma on the whole world is no better than the religions forcing there own? Your just swapping the adamant belief of a god for the adamant belief that there isn’t one. There are plenty of non religious nutters out there you would strap on a bomb or kill for something like national pride or animal rights or anti/pro abortion.

  35. 37 Shirley
    August 7, 2008 at 22:20

    Mike, the funky scripted thing that I copy-pasted said, “There is no deity except God, Muhammad is the Messenger of God, and `Ali is the Wali of God. I cannot remember how to translate “wali,” but it refers to the Shia Islamic belief in divine succession of leadership after the death of Prophet Muhammad. They’re just words. If anyone is scared of that much, don’t live near a mosque. You’ll hear it five times a day and be paranoid the rest of your life. (That was a joke. You may laugh now.) As for the wacked Caliphate nonsense, I wouldn’t fall for it if the doc had dropped me on my head before he slapped my newborn behind. There’s no more need to establish a Caliphate, especially since I a a Shia Muslim, than there is to kill my neighbours for the “crime” of not being Muslims. (That was a joke. You may laugh now.)

  36. 38 nelsoni
    August 7, 2008 at 22:22

    @ Mohammed Ali
    No messages in the Spam from sheikh Dukuly,

  37. August 7, 2008 at 22:32

    Nelsoni are you a religious person? Every time we argue religion it doesn’t get us any where. We end up talking about some barbaric individuals slaughtering their fellow humans like animals all in the name of religion. If God says that people should be treated that way, then I rather in with satan.

  38. 40 nelsoni
    August 7, 2008 at 22:35

    @ Mohammed Ali ,

    I am not a religious person.

    Trust me, Satan is not a better alternative, Lets just say there are a few misguided individuals who get all the publicity while the good ones don’t

  39. August 7, 2008 at 22:37

    @robert, I didn’t say I’ll force it. I said campaign for it religious free world.

  40. August 7, 2008 at 22:41

    @shirley, I admire what Tavey did for those children and I think she should continue to take care of them. She’s a real mother. Those drugs sucking parents should find a psychiatrist home to go to and get their heads to start thinking in the way sane people do.

  41. August 7, 2008 at 22:47

    @nelsoni, if that’s the case, the we should separate the good ones from the bad ones when discussing. At times people generalize and make aspect of a particular religion bad. I ceased being a religious person long ago and I’m actually enjoying the way I am.

  42. 44 Robert
    August 7, 2008 at 22:48

    Mohammed

    As Nelsoni said, it will be impossible. As long as somebody believes in a god there will always be religion in the world. The best we can work towards is tolerance and acceptance. Even that would be a tall order in some places.

  43. 45 Anthony
    August 7, 2008 at 22:49

    This would be a fun and interesting topic, although I’m sure it would never make it on the show…

    -Which Religion (if any) is Right and Why?

    Wow, there would be a Zillion posts!!!

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  44. 46 Jens
    August 7, 2008 at 22:51

    Robert,

    sure, there are nutters out there, but i would doubt that they would kill in the name of a non-existing god.

    “i kill you in the name of the non-existing good and my fundamentalist non-believe…… very very doubtfull, my friend.

    i am absolutly positive that no atheist would kill somebody because of the abortion issue, since that one my friend is driven by religiouse NUTS.

  45. 47 nelsoni
    August 7, 2008 at 22:54

    @ Mohammed: If the Media don’t focus on the bad guys, they wont get a high audience and high revenues, Good guys dont sell stories, bad guys do. If you doubt me take a look at the British tabloids, when last did you see a good headline?

    @ Robert: well said ^5

  46. 48 Jens
    August 7, 2008 at 22:56

    the religion discussion is an interesting BUt all to often futile one. while i let people believe what they want, however irrelevant and irrational it might be, i often get the feeling that the religiouse types come along all messianic and ready to convert.

    heck belive in the tooth fairy, easter bunny or sascquach, i do not care. BUT do not start a war over this crap. dying the name of any non-existing diety is not very dignifying….even if you are promised a never ending supply of virgins

  47. 49 Shirley
    August 7, 2008 at 22:57

    Jonathan: @Shirley, I hate like heck to tell you missed it… but the show was great today. One of the better ones. You can listen to the podcast, right?

    Naw, admit it, you love watching people squirm. I would have half a chance of listening to the archive if someone could post a link that included the mp3 part at the end.

  48. 50 Jonathan
    August 7, 2008 at 22:58

    @Shirley~~

    I don’t intend to pile on; I see you’re getting a good deal of grief lately. As you may have noticed, I took up the cudgel on your behalf more than once yesterday.

    Apparently someone had suggested that terrorists should be opposed and denounced, not embraced, by sane, peaceable individuals who just want to live their lives. You, testily responded, “Etither make that demand of everybody or stop demanding it just of us [Muslims].”

    I make that demand of everybody. The moderate, nonviolent, sane people who comprise the vast majority of every race, religion, and culture are morally obligated to denounce, disavow, and disown any terrorists, “freedom fighers” who slaughter civilians and free nobody, suicide bombers, and murdering “martyrs” they might happen to encounter. Rather than, say, dancing in the streets, partying, idolizing them, and celebrating their “accomplishments.” And rather than remaining silent. That’s surely a reasonable demand of everybody who wants to live in peace; I hope you agree.

  49. August 7, 2008 at 23:03

    @Jens, truly no atheist will kill someone because they can’t pray or committed adultery or fornication. The religious zealots will do that for breakfast.

  50. 52 nelsoni
    August 7, 2008 at 23:03

    @ Shirley
    I would have half a chance of listening to the archive if someone could post a link that included the mp3 part at the end.
    This is your link here

  51. August 7, 2008 at 23:10

    @nelsoni, you are right. I have a friend journalist friend who always tell me that good news are not news and are therefore not media worthy.

  52. 54 Robert
    August 7, 2008 at 23:10

    Sorry Jens

    My wording could have been a little better. What I was trying to put across is that there are nutters that just want to kill or make explosions. At the moment religion is a convenient excuse to do this. Remove the religion and they will find another cause. These might be nationalism of some sort (say ETA, NI, former Soviet Republics etc), animal rights campaigns etc. Your right no atheist would kill in the name of atheism, but those disposed to inflict harm would find a secular issue to abuse in the absence of religion.

    Simply removing religion will not solve the worlds ills, it would just give them a new facade

    PS I was under the impression that the anti abortion lobby was separate from religion although many of the lobby are religious. After your fair challenge, I’m now not sure what would happen to the movement if the religion was stripped away.

  53. August 7, 2008 at 23:13

    Religion should provide an eternal bliss and a direction for salvation. The world is so messed up today because fanatics and trouble makers have decided to be defenders of faith. My God resides in my heart.

  54. 56 nelsoni
    August 7, 2008 at 23:18

    @ Mohammed Ali. I am glad you heard that from the horse’s mouth. Tune into any major news channel bad news out numbers good news, 8-2 ( I am being generous here) . So that’s why all those religious extremists will keep getting prime time coverage.

  55. 57 nelsoni
    August 7, 2008 at 23:23

    @ Sheikh, I just recovered your post from the spam filter. Your posts seem to have a strong affinity for the spam because I always have to recover them from the filter. Keep the posts coming in and happy blogging.

  56. 58 Jonathan
    August 7, 2008 at 23:39

    @Shirley~~

    Me? I like to make people whimper and squirm? Why on earth would you say that? [He asked, with a wink and a wide, sly grin.]

    OK, I figured out the podcast, stepped away for a bit, and returned to see that nelsoni has provided you the link you asked for. So that my efforts won’t be wasted, I’ll follow up that metaphorical fish dinner with a proverbial fishing lesson:

    Near the upper right of this page is a series of five colorful icons. Clicking the one labeled “podcast” will take you to a page bearing an orange and a green panel, under which is a column headed “LATEST EPISODES” and another headed “HOW TO DOWNLOAD.” Follow the instructions in the latter column to obtain from the former column a cool, refreshing MP3 for your listening pleasure.

    Striding back into the closet then to find the right tie….

  57. 59 Anthony
    August 7, 2008 at 23:53

    So I guess the U.S. will be almost completely out by 2010. Hmmmmmmmm. Just more smoke and mirrors, or realistic projections???

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  58. 60 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 00:00

    @Will—
    What’s all this then about 12 million people??

    @Shirley~~
    Sorry I didn’t know about the “World Domination” running joke, must have started before I came along, or the fake oil test one, which I still don’t understand but at least I’ll give you no more grief about; how’s that? (When you say oil, I reflexively pounce.)

    @Everyone–
    I am SO ready for the end of these holy wars lately– the repetitive inflammatory links, insults, turgid quotations from tracts, accusations, badgering and hounding and rude pseudonymous trolls and the whole tiresome business. Fifty posts saying “Your god stinks” is not the discourse I’m here for. It’s not instructive, interesting, or amusing. Even the squirms it elicits are not the fun sort. Am I alone in this sentiment?

  59. 61 Shirley
    August 8, 2008 at 00:00

    Religious Extremism
    Nelson, as long as the person says la ilaha illa Allah Muhammad rasul Allah and makes taqlid*, I’m cool. It’s these nuts running around shouting “bid`ah, haram^” and “Caliphate Now or Bust!” that irritate and scare me.

    * follows a school of thought, if Sunni; follows a high-ranking scholar, if Shia
    ^ wrongful innovation, sin

    I really hope that someone can post a link to today’s show so that I can hear your input. By way of update, I discovered an ancient yet living form of Window Media PLayer on this dino child-friendly computer.

    the wacko arabic script appeared as incomprehensible characters – I did that as a test for Asad. He completely confused me with his posts, so I posted in a form of HTML Arabic that needs to have the View->Encoding switched to Arabic just to see how familiar he was with the topic that he was discussing.

    Kidnapping
    Mohammed, I have serious questions about the woman’s mental stability. She kept going on and on about how she loved those kids and wanted to have them in her house forever; and that was back to just after Katrina. Then she said that she believed that God had given her the kids. It all sounds just a bit off to me.

  60. August 8, 2008 at 00:03

    Hi, everyone. I don’t know if you know or care about: that today is the 20th Anniversary of the failed revolution of 1988 in Burma. I’m greatly aware that people shouldn’t be bothered with troubles not their own, but has the international community turned a blind eye to the junta? Sadly, the efforts to overthrow the regime has diminished once again since the Saffron revolution of 2007. It seems nobody is moving in one direction – the west applies economic sanctions; Burma’s neighbours sign trade deals. I hope this fit in somewhere…

  61. 63 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 00:06

    @ Jonathan, Try reading the very first post on this page and lets hear your thoughts abt you carrying a cam and reporting for xyz news international

  62. August 8, 2008 at 00:07

    Thanks Nelson! I guess you are my antispam giant.

  63. 65 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 00:08

    @ sheikh. Just doin my job to make our conversations run smoothly 🙂 Recovered two. Again.

  64. 66 Bryan
    August 8, 2008 at 00:10

    nelsoni August 7, 2008 at 8:19 pm,

    The debate over citizen journalism against the “professionals” is a fascinating one.
    Dunno if you saw this article by the BBC’s Peter Horrocks:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/01/value_of_citizen_journalism.html

    A bit long, but well worth a read. The debate among citizen journalists can get quite rough and un-PC. Horrocks is quite distressed by that and expressed the intention to do something about it. Shortly after he published his article, ‘Have Your Say’ began to drastically reduce the number of topics open for discussion on any given day and also seems to be concentrating on less controversial topics than the one that caused Horrocks such concern, dealing, as it did, with the ‘Religion of Peace’.

  65. 67 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 00:18

    @ Bryan. I was able to get the main points of the article. Regardless of any Editor’s dislike for citizen journalism, I think that it’s something that has come to stay. May be a few main stream journalists are sacred of losing their jobs.

  66. 68 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 00:22

    @Anthony–

    Out of Iraq (I assume) in 18 months? Where’d you hear that?

    Last I heard, McCain was promising a thousand year reich, Obama was saying 18 months, and the PM of Iraq said 18 months sounded just fine to him.

    Then all I could hear for days was the sound of arms being twisted from their sockets and waterboarding noises.

  67. August 8, 2008 at 00:26

    @ 8th August 1988, there are many undemocratic and dictatorial regimes around the world. Many of these failed states unnoticed as long as they continue to puppeteer and do business with big powers. Burma has reached its nadir of hardship and human rights violation.

  68. 70 Roberto
    August 8, 2008 at 00:29

    Re Bin Laden’s driver at Gitmo trial:

    Salim Hamdan recieved a sentence of 5 1/2 years, falling short of the life sentence requested by the prosecution. Five years and a month have already served at Guantanamo Bay, so his sentence will be finished by year’s end.

    Thing is that he can be still held indefinitely as an enemy combatant. It is also unclear if Yemen, his home country would allow him back in the country if he were eligible for release.

    He was acquitted of the most serious charges of assisting terrorist attacks on the US and providing missles to Al Qaeda.

    In essence, the military judiciary has punted this conundrum back to the administration.

    I have to wonder how many million$ have been spent for justice of this poor misfortunate foreign national when there are millions in the US in need of this caliber of legal assistance because of circumstance but cannot afford or otherwise know how to interest a decent lawyer in their case..

  69. 71 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 00:44

    Shirley~~

    You’ve got your blinkin’ link, dear lady, from nelsoni at 11:03. Followed by my instrucion (strict of course) at 11:39 for future reference.

    OK, I am NOT into decapitation. Yeesh, a normal healthy wholesome sadist can’t get a break, or what. ‘) You do have a twisted sense of humor, my favorite kind. Be nice or I’ll give it one more twist.

  70. 72 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 00:54

    @Nelsoni–

    Me? A reporter? For XYZ? Why would you suggest that? I guess I’m either flattered or furious or both; don’t know yet.

    Shall I assume it’s the “unskilled hacks” link that you commend to my specific attention?

    I got stuff to do now. I’ll be back later to read the links and return bearing a smile, a scowl, or just a confused look….

  71. August 8, 2008 at 01:05

    http://thoughtsfromrva.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/my-garden-from-the-eye-of-a-cell-phone/

    For all who were interested last night about pics of my garden. They were taken by my cell and sent through picturemail so they are quite small, the pics are about half of the different veggies and such I am growing right now but just wanted to give an idea to those who were asking last night. Enjoy 🙂

  72. 75 Julie P
    August 8, 2008 at 01:10

    @Brett,

    The pictures came out well, your veggies are well displayed. They are quite beautiful too. Good job!

    I planted a roma tomato plant during the ban on them. It is doing quite well for its late start. I expect to get tomatoes from the plant before Halloween.

  73. 76 Shirley
    August 8, 2008 at 01:27

    Religious Extremism
    Jonathan: I make that demand of everybody. You do? I hadn’t noticed? Truth to be told, I directed that to the general public. Since you makes your demands on the general populace to denounce violence, I won’t have any problem saying the following: I denouce violence.

    I will, of course, hold you to this whole demanding denunciations of violence from the general populace in the future. Or at least, I’ll try.

    Robert, most anti-abortionists are tied at the hip with religion. Their political leaders are religious and invoke religion along with their political cause. They themselves base their political position on religion, and to hell with social conditions and coat hangers. I’ve found one exception so far to this.

    Tech Assist
    Nelson, thank you much! Jonathan, an excellent fishing lesson. If any step of that process requires flash, java, or any internet technology more recent than 10 years, I may not be able to do it.But I will certainly try the next that I get curious about a show.

    Oh, wow. Two hours to d/l the file. Imahafta wait til midnight to do that. :=(

  74. 77 steve
    August 8, 2008 at 01:27

    wow, I hope the dollar continues to rise for my trips to montreal and germany this year!

  75. 78 Shirley
    August 8, 2008 at 01:43

    Burma
    Wow. Gosh. Ok, let me Wikipedia that and read up.

    Slow Interactions
    Jonathan, as you might have figured out, there is a time difference between what I load and what I respond. It has much to do with my dino-computer and the fact that I am always bouncing between the computer room and something else to do in the house. And no, actually, I slipped in the reference to you before I mentioned decaptitation.

    Btw, just out of curiosity: Sheikh Kafumba Dukuly, are you really a Shaykh? In the Islamic sense as opposed to just a community elder? Of the Adam Kawthari/Dar al Iftaa/qa.sunnipath.com kind, or of the islamqa/muttaqoon kind, or of the al Azhar kind…? Is there anything that you could offer by way of verification?

  76. 79 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 01:48

    @Steve–

    You should do OK. The dollar invariably plummets when I go abroad, and I’m not planning any travel. I’m a contrarian leading indicator. I can’t imagine Canada with bigger dollars than ours; how humiliating. Hope we at least get parity when you go.

    Where in Germany?

  77. 80 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 02:08

    @Roberto–

    Yeah, the Hamdan verdict must have been one long good news/bad news/good news/bad news joke. I sure feel like I got my money’s worth. Just imagining Bush’s face on hearing the news: priceless.

  78. 81 Count Iblis
    August 8, 2008 at 02:19

    Brewaking news: War breaks out between Georgia and South Ossetia It is almost certain that this will lead to a major conflict. The Georgian army is much stronger than the rebels in South Ossetia, but Russia will back the rebels. So, even if there is quick victory for Georgia, the Georgian army will find themselves in a quagmire.

  79. 82 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 02:23

    @Shirley~~

    It’s the same link that Nelsoni provided. I just gave you directions to get there from here. Click the “podcast” icon at top of blog page, click the show you want on the page that link takes you to. End of story.

    Don’t worry about the time lag; I do that too, even with a fast PC and a screaming internet connection.

    And I don’t do chains! The page today is unsually freighted with suggestive references though. I’m blushing all over.

  80. 83 Bob in Queensland
    August 8, 2008 at 02:45

    G’day everyone!

    Just to let you know I’m around if any of the other mods are still up but wanting sleep.

    I’m still reading in (and trying to get some of that pesky blood out of my caffeine stream) but thought that, if Anthony wants a debate about which religion has it right, I want to be the first to make MY SUBMISSION.

  81. 84 Bob in Queensland
    August 8, 2008 at 02:53

    @ Robert 10:19 PM and later

    I’m in about 98% agreement with you. I don’t believe in a god but trying to force my non-belief on others would be just as wrong as that controversial paragraph in Asad_Babyl’s post yesterday. Also, following on from yesterday’s discussion, trying to logically decide on a non-belief (if you believe) would be just as impossible as the other way around.

    I also agree that ending religion certainly would not cure all the world’s ills. There are plenty of other excuses used for hatred and fighting.

    However, my 2% agreement with held is just because if, by some miracle, everyone else wakes up this morning and voluntarily renounces religion, I do believe this would go some small way towards a better, more peaceful world.

  82. 85 ZK
    August 8, 2008 at 02:56

    Hi, thanks Will and Nelson and the others for taking care of this until I showed up — I’ve been having internet issues overnight.

    I’m here now, and will take you through the rest of the morning until the BBC team get back into the office.

    Coup d’état in Mauritania: what more can be done to stop having democratically elected governments tossed out by military juntas? Every time there’s a military coup you get condemnation from the free world and little else.

  83. 86 Venessa
    August 8, 2008 at 03:02

    Brett ~

    Your peppers look fantastic! I think I’m going to try to grow some next year. Thank you for sharing.

  84. 87 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 03:21

    @ Bob in Q’ and ZK. Good morning and thanks for coming in at this point. Perfect timing. It’s past 3 am here, so I need to catch a few hours of sleep. I will join up with you guys later.

  85. 88 Shirley
    August 8, 2008 at 04:32

    Georgia on My Mind
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080808/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_south_ossetia;_ylt=AvxR32gTtibP57UD1uaua3lvaA8F
    The capital of Georgia’s separatist region of South Ossetia came under heavy fire early Friday, just hours after Georgia’s president declared a unilateral cease-fire, news reports and the rebel government said. Russia asked the United Nations Security Council for an emergency meeting, which was scheduled at unusually short notice at 11 p.m. Thursday in New York.

    Myanmar Limping Along
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080807/ap_on_re_as/myanmar_cyclone_s_wake;_ylt=AsT2v29b7Q.8cEEqa4725eBvaA8F
    Can someone explain the name controversy (Myanmar/Burma) to me?

    A survey of families in 291 villages showed that 55 percent have less than one day of food left and no stocks to fall back on. Some 924,000 people will need food assistance until the November rice harvest, while around 300,000 will need relief until April 2009. A survey of families in 291 villages showed that 55 percent have less than one day of food left and no stocks to fall back on. Some 924,000 people will need food assistance until the November rice harvest, while around 300,000 will need relief until April 2009. The real post-cyclone heroes have proved to be individual donors, small private groups and Buddhist monks — some of whom have been harassed, curbed and sometimes arrested by the junta for their efforts. “I don’t expect any help from the government. I just know that if I ask them for help I would have to give them something in return. But I have nothing now,” said Khin Maung Kyi, the farmer from the delta area of Kungyangon.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma

  86. 89 Bob in Queensland
    August 8, 2008 at 06:45

    Typical. I get online and everybody else disappears!

    Anyway, here’s one for you. How many of you have heard of Google Maps “Street View” yet? If you haven’t heard of it, you probably will in the next few years.

    Basically, much of America (and now much of Australia) has been photographed at street level so, when you click on the right button on the Google Map, you get a photograph of the street at that point. You can move back and forth along the street and zoom in and out.

    The thing is, the launch hasn’t been without controversy here in Australia. Many people consider it an invasion of privacy since, in some photos at least, there are people visible on the street. One example featured on the news down here was a man caught walking into a sex shop. Frankly, the resolution is such that I doubt many people are recognisable but…should we be concerned?

    (As an aside, while playing with the feature I visited San Francisco–on the map–and tried to look at the view from the Golden Gate. Alas, the had done their SF shots in a typical fog and you can’t see a thing! Next time Jonathan posts his name as being in “sunny San Francisco”, poke your tongue out at him!)

  87. 90 1430a
    August 8, 2008 at 06:47

    hello everyone,
    the olympics begins in hours and the excietment is rousing amongst the people here.well the only thing i am looking forward to is the fabulous opening ceremony.China is well know for their ceremonies and this one will certainly be the best.
    But i did not undersand the point of bringing the world leaders in this ceremony.Whats the use of bringing Bush in the opening ceremony?I mean who wants to see him?do you?
    Thankyou
    Abhinav

  88. 91 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 07:28

    @Abhinav 1430a–

    Are you in Beijing? How exciting.

    World leaders at Olympics is a tradition even older than I am. Of course we love to see Bush all the time, but we don’t want to be selfish, so we send him around now and then to share his inspiring radiance with the other people of the world. You’re quite welcome. Enjoy him. ‘)

    I think they should do the olympics as they did in ancient Greece originally: in the nude. Then I’d watch them.

  89. 92 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 07:44

    @Shirley~~

    Burma is what the Brits called it when it was a colony. Myanmar is the new improved “native” postcolonial name, after the fashion of Rhodesia > Zimbabwe. The brutal military government there is so amazingly horrible that many people call it Burma as a statement against its legitimacy, as calling it Myanmar would be an implicit acknowledgement of it. (Like the guy said, not a whole of of substantial help from the world.)

    How bad is their government? So bad that when there was a catastrophic typhoon there recently, the government refused to let aid workers in. From anywhere. For weeks. I have no idea why. Good manners, custom, and tradition dictate accepting aid and stealing a nice chunk of it. These guys are stark staring mad. Countries and NGOs were all over the UN begging to be allowed in to donate goods and labor.

    Their major industry is the manufacture and sale of drugs, firstopium from the poppies that grow there, and lately massive amounts of methamphetamine pills that are making life difficult in Thailand.

    For all that, it’s a breathtakingly beauttiful land.

  90. 93 Bob in Queensland
    August 8, 2008 at 08:04

    @ Jonathan

    I think they should do the olympics as they did in ancient Greece originally: in the nude. Then I’d watch them.

    Do you wish to reconsider? Don’t forget, for every gymnast or swimmer there will be a weight-lifter or shot-putter!

  91. 94 Bob in Queensland
    August 8, 2008 at 08:06

    @ Jonathan and Shirley

    You can count me as one who deliberately calls it Burma rather than Myanmar. The name change came from those same generals who did so well after the typhoon. I’ll happily change to Myanmar if and when a democratic government ratifies the name.

  92. 96 Julie P
    August 8, 2008 at 08:24

    @Bob,

    As a matter of fact, we disappear just for you! 😉 It’s a game we like to play!

  93. 97 selena
    August 8, 2008 at 08:24

    Just a little reminder for those quick to criticize China…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/04/us/04trailer.html

  94. 98 selena
    August 8, 2008 at 08:25

    @ Nelsoni

    On what do you base your conclusion that Satan is not a better alternative?

  95. 99 1430a
    August 8, 2008 at 08:37

    @Jonathan
    nice idea watching the players nude.then the olympics would be an Adult rated tournament.haha.But ofcourse the viewership will increase then.I would certainly not miss a game.:)
    But no i am not in China,in neighbouring Nepal.
    I do hope to have a blast in today’s opening ceremony.
    🙂

  96. 100 Robert
    August 8, 2008 at 08:39

    Selena

    Satan is still a devine entity akin to a god, and a movement to follow him would still be a religion. Give him a bunch of followers and I’m sure they will find a way of distorting his teachings.

  97. 101 Tom
    August 8, 2008 at 08:53

    @ Google Map Street View,

    Living on a small quiet street that I don’t expect anyone would bother visiting, I’m pleasantly surprised to see my house clearly depicted on Google Map’s Street View, along with the 2 cars sitting on our driveway. Whoever visited and photographed all the tiny suburban streets must have had extreme patience and dedication. Despite the privacy concern by some, it will be embraced by many more, especially those wishing to find out more about the streets they are considering moving into.

  98. 102 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 09:15

    @Bob–

    Oh, I’ll always be around in the lonely hours for ya, Bob. Was that your wife smiling at me last night by the way? Hah, I’m way ahead of you; I deleted the weather report a couple of days ago.

    San Francisco was the first city to get street viewed, google being just down the road a piece. (I could tell you stories ’til you topple, glutted, begging for mercy.) Tthey’re now fuzzing up the faces, so enjoy them while you can. There are, or were, whole blogs about sharing funny street view shots. I prefer Microsoft’s views, at least the San Francisco coverage. It’s called “live local” but its web address is local.live.com.

    I think it would be ubercool to have google maps “pushpins” here on WHYS, so we could see where we’re talking about in the world, and optionally share our own locations, with linked satellite imagery of course. Big fun. I mentioned it last month in “Help plan WHYS’ Future” to resounding silence. Lots of sites and blogs are doing it, and it’s technically simple, though I don’t know if wordpress accomodates it.

    Three google earth fun facts: Resolution is sharper in cities than rural areas, but the Pakistan/Afghanistan border region is sharp as a tack for reasons you can probably guess. Prince of Darkness Dick Cheney has persuaded Google to fuzz up the view of his residence, one of a very few places with that distinction. A click turns google earth into google night sky, a dazzling navigable riot of stars and planets.

    For the best pics of SF, go to http://www.hd-sf.com. Front page is a real-time view, but go to the handful of hi-res time-lapse films (you know, sunrise to dazzling day to sunset to night in two minutes, with sailboats skittering around the bay at manic velocity). It’s better than being here, and much cheaper.

  99. 103 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 09:20

    @Tom–

    Patience and dedication, yes. Stock options do wonders to concentrate the mind. May I ask where you write from?

  100. 104 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 09:24

    @1430a–

    Well, they COULD have an adult Olympics, but I was just thinking the standard sports, performed naked. I guess it would slow down the swimmers and, hmm, probably everyone though. Nepal? Wow! Have fun!

  101. 105 Jonathan
    August 8, 2008 at 09:36

    @Bob–

    Well taken. I’d pick and choose the events I guess. Still be more of a draw than sports have ever been for me thus far.

    I call it Burma too. But then I still call Rhodesia Rhodesia when I can get away with it. Media are split: BBC says Burma; NPR and PBS say Myanmar. (Let’s call the whole thing off….)

    Still interested in my E-Z plan for stellar elementary education? I’ve got it written already on a virtual Post-It.

  102. August 8, 2008 at 09:57

    [i]selena August 8, 2008 at 8:25 am

    “@ Nelsoni

    On what do you base your conclusion that Satan is not a better alternative?”[/i]

    Nelsoni, if people are killing in the name of God and I don’t hear people often killing in the name of satan, what would be a better alternative?

    @Bob,
    I argued that I’m launching a campaign to make the world free of religion. In that way we will not have to contend with religious extremism be it Islamic or Christianity.

  103. 107 nelsoni
    August 8, 2008 at 10:15

    @ Mohammed Ali. First things first. The html tag for italics is the greater than symbol and less than symbol not [].

  104. August 8, 2008 at 10:29

    @nelsoni,
    It looks like I have to go through this tutorial over and I need your help in this.
    Thanks for the observation.

  105. 109 Rick
    August 8, 2008 at 10:33

    @ selena
    that was an awsome reference to tibeten buddhist history you sent yesterday and so topical with the protests going on in china at the moment. I saw some actual footage of pre ww2 tibet in a doco about Hitler’s venture there to explore some kind of connection with the arian race thing. I thought then that these people look realy backward and poor. I had no idea it was that bad. Its very long and I am still reading it.

  106. 110 Melanie Chassen
    August 8, 2008 at 10:54

    Good morning all! I just woke up and had a thought about this:

    @ wedding gifts
    While its true that some people may be offended by being told what to buy a bride and groom, don’t these people want to get the newlyweds something they actually want? And if price is an issue, wedding lists at the very least can give ideas of what the couple would like, leaving the guest to seek out a less expensive version.

  107. August 8, 2008 at 11:18

    @AIDS,
    The huge sum of money spent on the AIDS disease publicity given to it is understandable in my views for two reasons:

    1. The disease has no cure and as such there needs to be high level of publicity to make people know the dangers it poses to society and the labor force of the country.

    2. The stigma associated with AIDS is very high. For example, here in Liberia people do not openly talk about their status for fear of being ostracize by society. being HIV positive in Liberia is a sentence to isolation in society even by family members.

    Whatever it takes should be done to curtail the spread of the HI Virus as it has the propensity to plunge the world into natural crisis.

  108. 112 selena
    August 8, 2008 at 11:19

    @Melanie

    You are right about wedding gifts. Better to know what the couple wants rather than give what you think they want.

  109. 113 Melanie Chassen
    August 8, 2008 at 11:20

    @ Selena

    Exactly. I can see to an extent that someone might construe it to mean that the couple doesn’t trust their choice in gifts, but really, it’s to take away the stress on the guest of trying to find something suitable. If theyr’e pointed in the right direction it’s much easier.

  110. 114 selena
    August 8, 2008 at 11:28

    @Melanie

    No one can ever buy me anything I like because my taste is a bit outlandish. So, I understand that it is better to state preferences.

    For, instance, I love glass. I would rather have something in glass that costs a $1.00 than something I don’t like costing $1000.00.

    One of the nicest gifts I ever got was from a student. It was a half dozen colored glass balls wrapped in a cute jewelry box. It probably only cost a couple of dollars, box included. I still treasure the gift.

  111. 115 Tom
    August 8, 2008 at 11:30

    @ Jonathan,

    I write from Melbourne, Australia.

  112. August 8, 2008 at 11:40

    It obviously sounds as a real fact that a military personality in either job or retired must be replaced forthwith to rescue democracy, the most popular system of running a country, e.g. Pakistan.

  113. August 8, 2008 at 11:41

    Gifts should be to the liking of the one receiving it. In my opinion if a person to whom a gift is given doesn’t like what it contains, it is not a gift. We should know what people like most and that should be their gifts.

  114. 118 Robert
    August 8, 2008 at 11:43

    Wedding lists.

    I’ve had some plus and minus’s over the years with them. On occasion I’ve been working long hours in really remote locations right up until the day of the wedding. The list meant I didn’t really have to stress too much over the gift.

    But once I remember getting the wedding list that contained a load of tat. I didn’t have the opportunity to shop (literately, there were no shops in the location) but it felt a little embarrassing buying a friend a gift from that particular list.

    Generally I do try and buy from the list, but for close friends and relative who deserve the investment of time I will try and find something special myself. I think the wedding parties need to accept that some people will want to do this and not take offensive when they do. Guest need to accept that the couple do want certain things and that the lists are a guide as to what is needed.

  115. August 8, 2008 at 11:46

    This Nigerian man has 86 wives and at least 170 children.
    Nigerian Mohammed Bello Abubakar, 84, has advised other men not to follow his example and marry 86 women.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7547148.stm

    Interesting story.

  116. 120 Robert
    August 8, 2008 at 11:57

    I wonder what the Nigerian man could ask for on his wedding list for marriage 86 that he didn’t already have from the previous 85?

  117. August 8, 2008 at 12:03

    @ Vanessa:

    Your peppers look fantastic! I think I’m going to try to grow some next year. Thank you for sharing.

    Thanks you two for the kind words 🙂

    Keep in mind, peppers can be grown indoors too, many require hardly any space. So if you have a bright room and impatient about waiting for next years growing season, give it a try, they will flower and produce indoors too and you can get the hang of caring for them. Keep in mind the watering schedules will be slightly different. I’ve heard of them producing for up to 3-4 years depending on the pepper type moving inside during the winter and outside during the summer.

  118. August 8, 2008 at 12:12

    @Robert,
    Do you actually believe that he alone had more than those 170 children?
    Do we believe that he can sexually satisfy all of those women?

  119. 123 Melanie Chassen
    August 8, 2008 at 12:54

    @ Mohammed Ali

    I just read the article about the Nigerian man… I can’t imagine that situation, but I live in a different world than he does. You asked if people believe that he can sexually satisfy all of his wives. Mathematically, it’s possible (each wife would get four nights a year… assuming he doesn’t take any more wives!) but I got the impression from the article that sexual satisfaction isn’t a priority. As the man seems to be a healer of sorts, the wives just seem to be content being in his presence. Can you imagine the female jealousy though? Yikes!

  120. 124 Katharina in Ghent
    August 8, 2008 at 12:56

    @ AIDS:

    I already wondered what happened to all the other nasty diseases like polio, leprosy, not to mention malaria and other fly-borne diseases that are prevalent in Africa and Asia. Probably a lot could be done to exterminate those, but you don’t get as much attention – and therefore donations – for those as when you hold an “Aids-ralley”. The reason for this is probably because Aids also exists in the West, so that’s why we care more.

    @ Wedding lists:

    The original reason for a wedding list is that couples use it as a help to get all the necessary stuff they need to equip their household. Nowadays, where couples often have lived together for a long time before getting married, there’s no point in a particular list anymore. The other issue is of course that, when sticking to a list, you avoid getting the same item twice… or three times, or more. Especially at big weddings this may happen a lot. That’s why I think this list is still a good idea, but the couple should be careful not to go overboard or ask for pricey items only that nobody wants to afford.

  121. 125 Venessa
    August 8, 2008 at 13:44

    @ wedding gifts

    I do like the lists but typically I know the bride or groom well enough to get something without it. Personally when I got married I made it very clear we did not want gifts but of course that NEVER works. I was almost 30 and have everything I need. We just wanted for people to celebrate with us; no gift needed! I was finally forced by my inlaws to go register at a couple places which I thought was very wierd. Only a couple people actually got us something on the lists. I was appreciative of everything we recieved, sent out my thank you cards and I was happy to return anything I didn’t want. After all someone was thoughtful enough to give me a gift. Far too many brides and grooms (at least in the US) are greedy and rude and should be happy that they have people they care about celebrating a great day with them!

  122. 126 Melanie Chassen
    August 8, 2008 at 14:14

    @ Venessa,

    Well said. I am not married, and don’t expect to be for at least a few years. But my loved ones attending my wedding would be enough of a gift.

    I’d like to stay with the same theme, but pose a different question:

    Is the father of the bride still expected to pay for the wedding (even though we are now in the 21st century?) I’d be interested to hear about traditions/customs that exist in other parts of the world, too.

  123. 127 Venessa
    August 8, 2008 at 14:20

    Melanie ~

    In my case my husband and I paid the entire bill (I don’t have any family but a brother and 2 aunts). I also think people spend ridiculous amounts of money on them but most of my friend’s parents have paid for their weddings. Both sides have typically paid for it, not just the bride’s family.

  124. 128 Melanie Chassen
    August 8, 2008 at 14:26

    @ Venessa

    I figured that was more common. I know that my cousins paid for their wedding, but I think the bride’s father bought her wedding dress. I wouldn’t be surprised if my father, or even my grandfather wanted to contribute to the cost of my own wedding, as both sides of my family are traditional in their own ways. For my 21st birthday (2 years ago) my grandmother gave me a ring and told me to wear it at my wedding as “something old”…

    But you’re right – weddings are super expensive. It’s slightly ridiculous!

    Here’s an unrelated article about the dispute over the Northwest Passage:

    “As Ice melts, debate over Northwest Passage heats up”
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-04-03-nwpassage-debate_x.htm

    Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ)
    http://geography.about.com/library/misc/uceez.htm

    The Law of the Sea
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

  125. 129 Venessa
    August 8, 2008 at 14:28

    Melanie ~

    I would also like to add that when you get married you can have a fantastic wedding without paying a small fortune or what could amount to a down payment on a house! Don’t be fooled by the all the junk you get when you start planning.

    We set a $5k budget and I stuck to it! It included every expense but our honeymoon which was a vacation we already planned. We had a phenomenal wedding on the Oregon coast (which by the way was a free venue) with only 25 guests. We rented a house and spent the weekend there. Our “rehearsal dinner” was a fantastic potluck BBQ and bonfire on the beach at the rental house which overlooked the ocean. We had the reception a month later at a venue that was free except for a minimum food and beverage requirement. Even on our small budget we had a prime rib & pasta dinner with an open bar with beer and wine.

    It can be done but people who are getting married and aren’t the ones paying for it probably don’t care much since it doesn’t come out of their pockets.

  126. 130 Melanie Chassen
    August 8, 2008 at 14:34

    @ Venessa

    I totally agree. What matters most to me is that my family is there!

  127. August 8, 2008 at 15:33

    What scares people from tying the knot here in Cameroon is the economic hardship which has resulted in most couples resorting to cohabitation. Even if you are a poor fellow here in Cameroon and happen to have a wedding, be sure that only poor people will attend while for the rich and more affluent, people of the social strata will grace the occasion there.

  128. 132 Luz Ma from Mexico
    August 8, 2008 at 16:30

    @Melanie about wedding gifts and wedding costs

    I prefer gifts lists, it is very practical for both parts. Sometimes, when the bride and groom are friends, I prefer to give them money (some relatives and friends gave my husband and I money instead of wedding gifts… we use that extra cash in our honeymoon, it was nice and unexpected).

    A curious note about my wedding gifts: when we returned from our honeymoon, my husband and I moved to Canada to study our graduate studies. Since we couldn´t move all our stuff there, we didn´t open our wedding gifts and decided to put them in storage. When we came back to Mexico -after 6 years of marriage- we finally find out what we received in our wedding 😉

    Cost of weddings:
    Here in Mexico, weddings are a HUGE issue. Many of them last 2 or 3 days (pre-wedding dinner, wedding ceremony and party, and after-wedding party). My wedding lasted 2 days, but I didn´t attend the after-wedding party. This “extra” party was hosted by my parents for close friends and relatives that came to our town for the wedding.

    Usually, the father of the bride pays everything (specially if you live in the center and south of Mexico). Here in the north of Mexico is accostumed that each family pay the cost of the food and beverages of their guests. If you invite a lot of people, you pay more. The cost of other items (music, flowers, etc.) is divided in half. The groom pays for the wedding dress, the civil ceremony fees and the Church fees.

    My parents and parents in law wanted a big wedding. We didn´t, but since they paid for it, we accepted their wishes. It was nice, but if you ask me… a waste of money 🙂

  129. 133 jamily5
    August 8, 2008 at 17:59

    @shirley,
    I could not help but laugh at post 37.
    And, I didn’t need to wait for your direction!!
    Great post!

  130. 134 jamily5
    August 8, 2008 at 18:00

    Kidnapping,
    Here is the point, if she really thought that the mother was not taking care of the children, then there are legal procedures.
    I am always skeptical of those people who do something radical upon emotion without thinking if there is a more appropriate way of getting the same result.

  131. 135 jamily5
    August 8, 2008 at 18:06

    @Melanie,
    The problem is that some people have such extravagant tastes that the gifts are quite expensive and sometimes the bride and groom put things on their lists that they can’t afford, themselves. The challenge is that “I” can’t afford them either.
    And, I try and think of unique things that the bride and groom have not thought of, yet.
    Maybe I would find something that they did not know even existed.
    So, here is an alternative question:
    “are you insulted or glad when someone gives you a gift card as a gift?”
    Does it demonstrate their resourcefulness or laziness?

    Polygamy:
    I don’t think that four nights a year would be very satisfying.
    But, on a perfect basis, I guess, that might be a child or two per year per wife.
    I wonder if each wife had one or two children or were there some women who had many children and others who had none?

  132. 136 Andrew
    August 8, 2008 at 18:09

    While the opening ceremony in Beijing looked good enough, it just lacked soul, feeling, emotion. For such a grand event you would have hoped for some of those qualities but as expected the performances seemed merely perfunctory. It was tightly choreographed virtually flawless but maybe we expect too much of this event and of what the Chinese would have presented the worldwide audience.

  133. 137 steve
    August 8, 2008 at 18:21

    Re: Polygamy

    how mentally ill do you have to be to want multiple nagging wives and multiple divorce settlements and alimony payments?

  134. 138 Jens
    August 8, 2008 at 18:30

    Steve,

    have you looked at the people involved in the polygamy churches of late. they are under the mind control of the elders and probably get beaten oder drugged up. they do not nagg, they are so subserviant they open their legs when they are told to do so or else…….

  135. 139 jamily5
    August 8, 2008 at 20:16

    @Jens,
    You’re going a bit overboard.
    But, after reading several biographical accounts of women in polygamous relationships,
    If they wanted out, they certainly would not ask for alamony.
    You are either in completely – or you got out and as far away as possible.

  136. 140 fromtheworldofdennis
    August 9, 2008 at 19:09

    About the WEDDING GIFTS requests: it is totally tacky to make a specific request for a 1gift!


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