On air: Is this the new South Africa?

The violence against foreigners that began a week ago has spread. At least twenty people have been killed, some burned alive in scenes horribly reminiscent of the ‘necklacing’ that took place during apartheid.

It’s estimated that 6000 people have been forced to leave their homes. Those carrying out the violence blame foreigners for taking their jobs. If you’re South African, how do you feel about foreigners in your country? If you’re from elsewhere and have been to South Africa, do the sentiments behind this violence ring true with your experiences? Karnie, our South African colleague, wrote about this last week.

There are in the region of 3 million Zimbabweans in South Africa. Something many partially explain by highlighting the situation in Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe. And that he is still in power is partly, some argue, down to the ineffective ‘quiet diplomacy’ of Thabo Mbeki. So South Africa should be supporting not attacking these people the argument goes.

Others point out that while the attacks are not justified, and the targets are wrong, the frustration many poor South Africans feel is more than justified. A decade and a half after the end of apartheid, many still live in poverty in poor quality housing with intermittent electricity and no water. Meanwhile, white South Africans still earn and own a disproportionate amount of the money and land.

Can you sympathise with these sentiments? Or do they pander to a xenophobia that fails to understand the benefits of immigration, not to mention South Africa’s responsibility to its poorer neighbours?

Either way, is what we’re seeing play out this week a representation of how a lot of South Africans feels about foreigners?

129 Responses to “On air: Is this the new South Africa?”

  1. 1 Virginia Davis
    May 19, 2008 at 13:57

    @South Africa

    I read through the article on Alexandra and xenophobia. Lack of housing, too few jobs and those there being taken by immigrants for lower wages, poor communication between people and those governing: police and councils. All bring people to violence against those they blame for a conglomeration of problems. This is “old humanity” – not the new South Africa.

    Virginia in Portland, OR

  2. 2 Mohammed Ali
    May 19, 2008 at 13:58

    Yes this is the new South Africa. Is it really a suprise to see South Africans behaving that way? IS nothing suprising to me. Here in Liberia when freed slaves from America were settled, what they did was to supressed and opressed the native Liberians. May this is a way of revenging what was done to them in the past. So to see the South African Doing this is nothing new to me. What is amazing is that people who have underwent such bad treatment from the ugly hands of Aparthied will and have now know the sweetness of freedom will attack fellow Africans is a complete disgrace to the entire South African society and the freedom the great Nelson Mendela and others fought for over the last century.
    The South Africans are becoming too much for us and they need to think about their link.

  3. 3 George Wills Bangirana
    May 19, 2008 at 14:28

    I must state from the word Go, I am no S. African and that I have heard a lot of stories about Jo’burg being the crime capital of the world.
    I have only been to SA once and Jo’burg in particular. It had the calmness that I have calm to learn is only artificial.
    Coming from a banana republic that Uganda is, and given the commonness of automatic rifles on Kampala streets, I was shocked to realise that In Jo’burg, policemen are armed to the teeth and they move in armoured vehicles and they still wear bullet proof vests.
    Crime is not new in SA but it has only changed face in that now it is xenophobic, which is very unfortunate. Attacking aliens is the saddest thing that S. Africans can do to other people from Africa who hosted them during their time of need.
    Zimbabweans, arre just being honest people by taking the consequences of the quiet diplomacy to its root for it is this very reason they are watching their country sink into an abyss. S. Africans had better learn that and learn to live with it.
    On my way back to Kampala from S. Africa, an old man of Asian descent expressed his fears to me as we both waited for our connecting flights from Nairobi and only talking in whispers -I never Knew Why-
    “The Rainbow nation is only a rainbow Nation simply because the father of the nation is still alive. When our Father Mandela passes on, all other people who are not black will be in trouble in SA”
    I thought it was only unwarranted skepticism and somehow wished it away.
    One and a half years down the road, I really see sense in the words of the old man.
    All in all, it is an unfortunate thing and it could be a result of undelivered promises. May be it is time we realised that ANC has not been the messiah, they were touted to be.
    My prayer to the marauding gangs, fight your real enemies not the imaginary ones.
    Make a great day

  4. 4 Abdi,in Mandera Kenya
    May 19, 2008 at 14:44

    South Africa is well known for it’s discrimination against foreigners.It’s also a very risky destination for any visitors.The country needs to change this and focus on how to attract more tourist so that the country gets more revenues.The police spare no efforts in ensuring that law and order are maintained at any cost.I think everybody has the right to visit any part of the globe and no one should find obstacles in visiting such a wonderful country with landscapes,mountains and wonderful wildlifes.

  5. 5 Des Currie
    May 19, 2008 at 14:51

    South Africans? Black South Africans, you must mean. Don’t see no coloureds whites and Indians involved.

  6. 6 Roberto
    May 19, 2008 at 14:55

    Those carrying out the violence blame foreigners for taking their jobs. If you’re South African, how do you feel about foreigners in your country?

    —— Very common sentiments against excessive immigration of foreigners in every region where people are congenitally unemployed, even wealthy western nations.

    Japan has very limited immigration policies, so it doesn’t have the immigration problems the rest of the world has yet. At some time they will have to be importing workers to bolster their aging population, though.

    As long as the disinfranchised citizens of a country are kept in the hardscrabble margins by the ruling class, these kinds of problems will persist. If you can’t get a job in your own country, the incentive to cooperate in the greater civil society is gravely weakened to where personal moral prohibitions may be overcome.

    Either you rule with an iron hand and create a China, or South Korea, Iraq, or 1930-40s democratic Germany where any perception of civil disorder or crime may mean summary abduction and execution, or you rule in a sort of incompetant and even criminal “democratic states” where the disinfranchised take care of the business of “abduction and executions” in impoverished ghetto like areas which are considered ungovernable and poorly policed.

    South Africa is undergoing a political reformation as they have to figure out if a democracy will even work in their country. Huge changes coming and 20 yrs from now, the whole of the world to look quite a bit different including South Africa.

  7. May 19, 2008 at 14:59

    South Africa has always been considered one of the most dangerous countries, with a high rate of murders and armed attacks. The black leadership seems to have failed to implement the principles of South Africa for all South Africans. During the apartheid era, the wide economic gap was between whites and blacks. Now the gap has widened even among blacks themselves. There are ultra rich blacks as there ultra poor blacks. With the influx of foreigners, especially from Zimbabwe, black South Africans must feel under economic invaders. But the blames shouldn’t be put on this “invaders” but on the SA government policies which have so far failed to bridge the gap between the-have and the-have-not.

    The current troubles seem not to have occurred at a good time for South Africa, as it is just two years away from holding the 2010 World Cup. This must be a signal to it on how events can turn up then. Sport events have become occasions to express political discontent. The situation in Tibet was highlighted during the Olympic torch tour as well as with demonstrations in Tibet and in many places around the world.

    Disadvantaged South Africans can use the 2010 World Cup to stage civil disobedience and to turn their areas into disaster zones if their government doesn’t work right away to solve their urgent problems. This is not good for the image of South Africa, supposed to represent the African continent.

    Apartheid in South Africa is now a matter of the past. The struggle to end white minority rule is over. The burden now is on the current black leadership to engage in ending social strife. Otherwise, poor Africans will have no means but to attack the unprotected foreigners who they think, rightly or wrongly, behind their current difficult situation. This can generate even in civil disobedience, with its unpredicted consequences.

  8. May 19, 2008 at 15:03

    This new outbreak of violence is the inevitable result of the actions of an administration that is so inept when it comes to sharing the wealth of a country that grows diamonds and gold.
    The disparity between ‘rich’ and ‘poor’ is mind blowing.
    It’s a long road to freedom, and most of it on foot it would seem, while the ‘rich and free’ speed past in their imported luxury cars on their way to spend at the supermarket more than most will earn in a month. If you are lucky enough to have a job.

    I went to East London, Eastern Cape, to set up an Open Access Learning Centre, Full of optimism and having experience of Africa (born in Zambia – spent some years in Nigeria) I felt South Africa with it’s Rainbow State mentality would be exciting. Not. It was sad. I found my experience there totally depressing.

    The racism is stunning, not only the old black and white stuff, but the black and black stuff. The violence is stunning. My (Xhosa) handyman almost lost an eye getting mugged for a rather old cell phone. My wife was almost raped and killed walking the dog down to the beach, right outside the house. Her father on a short visit returned to Germany with his arm in a sling after being knifed while getting something from the boot of the car, just outside the town Umtata.

    The whites are on the whole as apartheid minded as ever, although finding anyone who supported the system is like trying to find ex-members of the Nazi Party in Germany; everyone was of course against it. Everyone a Partisan. Of course they live behind 2 metre concrete walls, razor wire, electric fences and gates. “Armed Response” is big business.

    But these little catch phrases like this exist: “You have to treat them like children” and “But is it Kaffir Proof?” and “They’ll clean you out you know, with fishing lines through the window” and “Nice place, shame about the monkeys.” Those amazing huge sandy beaches are empty because “They are waiting in the bush, get your brai ready and they pounce”. And so it goes on.

    The whites seem to be terrified of the blacks. Probably with good reason. When you pay your gardener a month what a European gardener would earn in a day, and the cost of living is not that much less, if any, you can expect trouble sooner or later.
    And when you suggest a pay rise… the ‘local community’ make loud clucking noises that you are rocking the boat.

    I stunned ‘the locals’ when I insisted all Blue Crane staff had a bank account. “What the heck do they need a bank account for?” was the usual reaction. “You are just giving them a problem!”

    It took almost three months and threats of the sack to get the crew to stop calling me Masta and my wife Madam. Also something that didn’t go down well. But when I opened the swiming pool to the kids from the local “squatter camp”, sorry, Informal Community, that was the last straw for most. “You don’t mean you let THEM in your pool?”

    It was depressing. I was also involved with a property development project, all very Eco, but then it dawned on me that these vast tracks of highly desirable land owned by Whites, were perhaps of dubious and devious title deed. Who was the great grandfather of the land? Certainly not related the dude in the shiny new pick-up.
    This aspect combined with the outrageous difference in lifestyle made me seriously wonder that someone was going to end up in the shark infested Indian Ocean. So after blowing over 1M Rand I pulled out, mainly in disgust and went a retreat in Canada for three months to get over the whole ghastly experience.

    The largest problem facing the black South African is that they are too nice. They’ve always been “too nice”.

    In my whole time there despite my complete “Open Access” policy and respect for the black people who used the house, the grounds, the equipment was reciprocated.

    Despite the large amount of very portable computer and other electronic equipment in the buildings, nothing was stolen except for some washing from the line, unfortunately belonging to the gardener and housekeeper.

    Who did clean me out on a regular basis where the Whites! Talk about being ripped off at any opportunity! But then you can’t rip off the blacks, on the whole they have nothing you want and they can’t think about affording your prices.

    It’s a greedy country. There is little sharing. A vast amount of the population live in what are quite intolerable circumstances given the overall wealth of the country. It is rubbed in their face on a daily basis.
    Nothing really works very well. It’s all a bit shoddy. When it isn’t it’s imported. The moral of the core people, the normal people, is so low.
    And the moral of the middle class whites is also remakably low, because they can’t afford to leave.

    With bright sparks like Zuma moving in for the kill, I don’t see it getting better. A great deal more “intelligence” and “compassion” has to be in place in South Africa for the lot of it’s people to improve, and somehow I don’t think that is Dr. Zuma’s best card.

    I can see these bright sparks lighting big fires though, and S.A. is going to make one big bush fire.

    My tip is Do Not go to S.A. for the World Cup, far far safer to buy a big plasma screen and stay at home with a six pack. At least at the end of it you will have something to show other than a scar and a lot of insurance company forms to fill in.

    (not thank goodness in S.A. anymore but back in cozy Europe)

  9. 9 Muthee
    May 19, 2008 at 15:08

    Hi WHYS,
    I think the problem in South Africa has been simmering for a very long time and it only came into light after the blown out violence over the weekend.
    I have heard stories in the past of how poor South Africans regard foreigners, because of the notion that they they compete for the scarce jobs available with South Africans and they are foreigners. I used to hear that they particularly hated those from relatively well of countries like Nigeria and Kenya, and the Zimbabwean crisis has just compounded the situation.
    However, i believe no matter how one might feel aggrieved, going ahead and lynching people on that account alone is too much savagery, bearing in mind that in the case of Zimbabwe it is circumstances back home that force them to immigrate.
    I also believe that like so many African countries, what South Africans thought was freedom was really not what it looked. We attained political freedom while still under economic bondage with African and expatriate elite lording it over us where the colonialists left.

  10. 10 jesse
    May 19, 2008 at 15:13

    c’mon south africans!what is all this?no body has any right what so ever to chase out another person in his country,they are not the authority,so what’s the justification behind that ugly,insensitve,and nnthougtfull action emerge from?now,my daddy told me as a working nigerian his salary was deducted to help fight apartheid and feed southafricans,not only that southafricans sought for refuge during the reign of terror in their own country,oh how the have quickly forgotten that.i’m sure this is done by youth who dont know the history of where south africa is coming from,please go and ask your parent to tell you.and please stop that you don’t know tommorow!piece of advice.

  11. 11 James
    May 19, 2008 at 15:28

    South Africans should be ashamed of themselves. How can they kick around their fellow Africans? I live in the United States where Americans never show overt hostility toward immigrants. An American will never threaten you just because you are an immigrant. Again, shame on you South Africans!

  12. 12 Syed Hasan Turab
    May 19, 2008 at 15:29

    These riots may be considered foundation of violance in a third world diversified society, the flavour of Mr Mandala is going away.
    Though it appears as symbol of unity in south Africa at the end this will be a proven desaster along with humanaterian problems & sufferings.
    This South African’s move need to be crushed immediately nationally & internationally for sake of humanity as this tranformation angle is unhealthy & immoral for an human society.

  13. 13 eric
    May 19, 2008 at 15:31

    i have two friends in sa and they both report that it is dangerous just to drive around the country. one who lives outside of cape town will not drive by herself because she fears that if her car breaks down she will become a victim. my other friend in johannesburg has been telling me about this latest issue of violence since last week. her church is very supportive of the refugees for humanitarian reasons and recognizes it as a xenophobic reaction of citizens who are seeing their own employment prospects threatened by people who work harder and more efficiently. perhaps it all goes back to the perception the locals had instilled in them by the socialist anc which basically promised the average south african everything for free without having to work for it. the world can see what a great job socialism has done in zimbabwe. just like america, a land of opportunity where immigrants have always come to work hard and prosper, sa is the african magnet and the anc needs to do a better job of educating and training the citizens of sa the realities of living in a capitalist society: those who work prosper, those who don’t do not!

  14. 14 Nick Jonsson
    May 19, 2008 at 15:31

    These foreigners are in South Africa illeglly. What do they expect? They are not registered tax payers and are responsible for an enormous ammount of unsavoury activities in South Africa. Who runs the drug dealing? Not South Africans. These illegal aliens are a nuisance and should be sent back to where they came from.

    The Zimbabweans that are in South Africa illegally are a particularly good example. The world is aghast at these people being treated badly by South African citizens, but where is the international community when that madman dictator Mugabe is doing far worse to his own people?

    Being very proudly South African I am angry at how this is being reported. Sure, we do have certain social issues that need to be resolved, but having these illegal aliens in our country is making our reconstruction job much more difficult.

  15. 15 John
    May 19, 2008 at 15:57

    The rest of the African continent MUST take URGENT steps now to isolate South Africa even if temporarily. I am an African living here in Joburg as a ‘foreigner’ and it is obvious that while the majority of South Africans are decent people there is equally a large majority that are anti-foreigner whether you take from them or you give to them.

    If you go and buy at the supermarket and they see that as a black foreign national you can afford things they cannot afford their attitude towards you changes immediately. They have been nursing this grudge for a long time and it will never go away.

    What is happening now, is definitely being instigated by a one or more of their political leaders. The African continent should rise now and ISOLATE SOUTH AFRICA!!! They think they are better than us in the rest of Africa anyway. That is why they have the word ‘foreigner’ in their constituion. Seems to me ‘foreign national’ would have been more appropriate for a constitution.

    Nigeria in particular, should pull out of the upcoming football match with South Africa on 1st of June 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NIGERIA MUST NOT PLAY SOUTH AFRICA; YOUR NATIONALS ARE BEING KILLED RIGHT NOW IN JOHANNESBURG, AS I WRITE.


  16. 16 VictorK
    May 19, 2008 at 15:59

    @Malc Dow: a very interesting post.

    Why do so many Africans think that South Africa owes them? Apart from the front-line states, most of Black Africa did nothing at all about apartheid (Nigeria is thought to have made covert oil sales to South Africa) and in any case weren’t in a position to do anything militarily or economically. And what did the front-line states expect? If you choose to give haven to the ANC then you must expect to be attacked by the enemies of the ANC. But that doesn’t give your people a right to one day flock to South Africa in defiance of its immigration laws. And Mugabe is responsible for those 3 million Zimbabwean refugees, not Mbeki.

    The whole ‘rainbow nation’ thing is propagandistic nonsense. It may appeal to liberals but real people don’t think that way.

    @Roberto: nobody is disenfranchised in Soth Africa. The majority of those attacking foreigners pobably voted for the ANC. And that’s part of the problem. When a party faces no credible political opposition what incentive does it have to deliver on its election pledges (at least where those pledges are realistic)? Until a party comes into existence that can challenge the ANC we should expect more of the same broken promises.

    On its current trajectory, in 20 or 30 years time South Africa is likely to experience Zimbabwefication: collapse of the infrastructure inherited from European rule and despostism succeeding to democracy. In addition South Africa will have its own unique contribution of astronomical rates of crime and violence, an unmanageable AIDS pandemic, and deep and irreconcilable ethnic and tribal hatreds (a re-run of the last years of apartheid). The country has no future.

  17. 17 Justin from Iowa
    May 19, 2008 at 16:12

    I have to respond to James…. dude are you living in a dream world? I hear hostility to immigrants all the time. Hatred against Mexican/Latin American immigrants is so common it just bleeds into the background nowadays and you don’t even notice it. People around here HATE. You hear it all the time.

    Go to Idaho and listen to people talk about immigrants. I have an uncle there and its hard to even talk to him any more because every conversation ends up devolving into him hating on immigrants. Open your eyes man!

  18. 18 Chishimba John
    May 19, 2008 at 16:34

    According to my understanding, the problem is from Zimbabwe. So let the world participate in reducing the problems in Zimbabwe by removing Mugabe and all those proproblems will be the things of the past or be minimized to zero. Mugabe need to be sorted out like Sadam of Iraq. Chishimba John, Lusaka, Zambia.

  19. 19 John
    May 19, 2008 at 17:13

    MINI-GENOCIDE GOING ON RIGHT NOW in Johannesburg! And nothing can justify it, NOTHING!

    SOUTH AFRICA MUST BE ISOLATED RIGHT NOW BY THE REST OF THE AFRICAN CONTINENT!!! NIGERIA SHOULD BOYCOTT THE UPCOMING FOOTBALL MATCH AGAINST SOUTH AFRICA. Nigerians have been robbed and killed in the past here in Joburg and as I write, today 19 May 2007, they are being killed…

    I am a West African living in Joburg, in a middle-class suburb. My neighbours are mostly South African and they have been nice to me for almost 4yrs.

    However, in my encounter with lower class south Africans and even middle-class ones that are not my neighbours, I frequently encounter resentment as soon as they realise I cannot speak their local language. This nothwithstanding the fact I don’t take anything from them as I don’t work here. On the contrary I regularly transfer funds from my account abroad to my account here for my upkeep and that of my family. When I go to the supermarket and the working class blacks realise that I can afford things they cannot afford, they become resentful.

    They have thus been nursing a grudge against other Africans for a very long time, even before I arrived here. Africa needs to isolate South Africa now, because the political leaders here are not treating the mini-genocide that is going on right now with any sense of urgency. They are busy making comments in the media and having meetings and setting up task forces etc. while men, women and children are being burned alive.

    The situation is most probably being orchestrated by one or more of the political leaders themselves and they are simply paying lip service to calls to stem the violence. This situation will most likely metamorphose into inter-tribal warfare a la Rwanda in the not-too-distant future. But before that many Africans from other countries would have been killed. Other african countries should therefore immediately start to boycott meetings, sporting events etc that involve South Africa, even if temporarily.

    Africa should take decisive action for once… otherwise full-scale genocide will happen here soon enough!!! Please understand that even short-term visitors from Africa coming to Joburg will be killed in this indiscrimate violence being targeted at black foreign nationals. So, at least for now, organisations from Africa should not send their people here!!There is a mini-genocide going on that will soon engulf the entire city!!! I myself am trying to pull out right now…

  20. 20 Justin from Iowa
    May 19, 2008 at 17:15

    Friend Chishimba John, a part of the problem is from Zimbabwe, but only a part. In fact, this is one of the problems of these riots and violence… Foreigners are being made the scapegoat for South Africa’s problems when they are actually much deeper issues which aren’t being addressed.

    Sadly, all of our discussion is going to have approximately the same effect as our discussion on Zimbabwe… nothing. These are core problems that the PEOPLE of Zimbabwe, and the PEOPLE of South Africa, have to address… until they step up and hold their “leaders” accountable for the ruinous decisions they make, things will continue to deteriorate.

  21. May 19, 2008 at 17:42

    @ Chishimba John,

    I don’t think South Africa problems are from Zimbabwe. Here are some facts about South Africa:
    Foreign population: 3-5m. Majority from Zimbabwe, also Mozambique, Nigeria
    Total population: 49m
    Unemployment rate: 30%

    These figures suggest that the repatriation of Zimbabweans won’t solve the problem as the unemployment rate is 30%, which means at least 10 million of the SA population eligible for work is unemployed. There is also the question of living standards. SA workers getting starvation wages will remain deprived. South Africa’s problem then isn’t just unemployment but poverty affecting those with or without jobs.

    It is simplistic to put all the blame on foreigners, especially those who can do jobs black South Africans aren’t trained to do or don’t want to do. Also it is stupid to ask poor immigrants to leave and to keep foreign investors. The problem rests with finding radical solutions to SA rooted problems that prevent poor South Africans from enjoying the riches of their country because of the lack of education, corruption and AIDS. These are some of the ills that SA must be cured from.

  22. 22 steve
    May 19, 2008 at 18:13

    @ Justin

    Something tells me there aren’t many illegal immigrants in Iowa. I live in an area with many, and there is no violence against them. There is only talk, of people resentful that illegals get in state tuition, free healthcare, and don’t pay federal income tax. If the day ever occurred where the US became like South Africa, I would be shocked beyond belief. The “worst” thing I’ve heard about is local jurisdictions enforcing laws. oh no! Other things, some illegals have been evicted from homes due to violating zoning regulations, multiple families living in single family dwellings, having 15 cars parked outside of a home, stuff like that.

  23. May 19, 2008 at 18:20

    all types of discriminatory practices end with self destruction.
    hopspitality is no harm to an economy if well harnessed.
    the new south africa is a shame to all of Africa.
    Repent the coming of the Lord is nigh
    kipsang kerich in kenya.

  24. 24 Will Rhodes
    May 19, 2008 at 18:24

    South Africa – or the violence that we are seeing at the moment has been coming for a while.

    Still, today, after years of ‘freedom’ so many in SA are impoverished – and I will take it that they are sick of that.

    They like everyone else wants to earn a living – but one that will feed their family on more than a few cups of rice.

    Mugabe has cause more problems in more countries and is still allowed in the Africa club. Please, please get rid of this man!

  25. 25 Sikander
    May 19, 2008 at 18:36

    Crisis, What Crisis ?

    says Thabo Mbeki

    Surely, if Thabo Mbeki had stopped propping up Robert Mugabe , then the Zimbabwean would have returned to their country long time ago.

    Shame on Mbeki.

    As the saying goes ” Fish rots from the head ”


  26. 26 Frederick
    May 19, 2008 at 18:41

    That some South Africans have to launch attacks on foreigners is indeed a tragic occurence. But to justify such attacks on the grounds that foreigners are taking jobs from locals is a weak argument. Those of us who are foreigners in the United States have heard these arguments for quite sometime, and it is yet to make sense to me. After all, it is not as if locals are being fired from their jobs and replaced by foreigners! Indeed, in virtually all instances, the foreigner must fight/compete for the same position. I cannot imagine this being any different in South Africa.

  27. 27 Richard - Lusaka
    May 19, 2008 at 18:41

    Roll on 2010 World Cup. Prospective soccer visitors had better beware. That country does not accept foreigners. They got their cue from Mr Mbeki…when he said “there is no crisis in Zimbabwe”. I am reading Nelson Mandela’s autobiography “A Long Walk To Freedom” and these are the same prejudices he suffered. Reverse apartheid. Shame on a powerful nation.

  28. 28 Mohammed Ali
    May 19, 2008 at 18:42

    There can be no justification for xenophobic attack being carry out by the South Africans. This complete disrespect for their fellow Africans.

  29. 29 Mohammed Ali
    May 19, 2008 at 18:45

    @ Will Rhodes
    poorness of anybody does not give anybody the cause to attack your colleagues in such a manner.

  30. 30 Andrew
    May 19, 2008 at 18:46

    BBC is missing the point. Many other countries, even America and Russia, are also experiencing widening social disparity, terrible inflation—but they don’t riot as long as the rule of law is tough. Crime is the real issue in the “new South Africa”: the inability of this post-apartheid government to rule effectively.
    It’s not about race, it’s about ineffective government to overcome crime.

  31. 31 Justin from Iowa
    May 19, 2008 at 18:48

    @ steve
    Iowa actually rates pretty high on numbers of illegal immigrants, they are often employed in packing and processing plants here for meats and ag products. A town nearby where I live is actually famous for having 5+ different immigrant communities and languages spoken in one small town (5,000 people or less population)

    As an agricultural based community, there is less population density but as a percentage of everyone here immigrants are making a significant dent in population %. For a period over the last 5 years (less in the last year and a half) knifings and crime between the different communities had become a common occurance to hear about.

    So that’s been my experience in a rural, low population area. In larger urban areas with much greater population density, I am sure it is worse? Maybe not, I can only speak to my own experiences.

  32. 32 Justin from Iowa
    May 19, 2008 at 18:54

    I’m not saying that America is a situation like South Africa, I am just saying that saying no immigrant sourced violence occurs in America is silly. Race, Immigrant status, economic situation… all are sources of violence and crime in the US. It may be a matter of degrees of difference, but saying it flat out doesn’t happen in the US… that’s just silly.

  33. 33 pieter
    May 19, 2008 at 18:55

    We (our family) have lived in SA for 350 years. Through the bad days of apartheid. Never have i seen this country in such a mess. It took a mere 14 years. Shameful. I dont know what it is but black people can’t run businesses or countries. I am only going on history and what i see.
    Mbeki (a hole that he is) is nowhere to be seen….. as usual. He’ll set up a committee!!!! He said that we cannot turn these immigrants away? it’s disloyal to them. All 5 million of them.? What is this idiot thinking, really? We cannot even feed our own? He should be tried for humanitarian crimes re ZIM and these issues. He really should go NOW!!!! But who is to replace him???? Now there is a frightening thought.
    PS let me give you foreigners a bit of advice. Do not invest or buy property in this country. you WILL regret it.


  34. 34 David
    May 19, 2008 at 18:56

    May 19, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    “South Africans should be ashamed of themselves. How can they kick around their fellow Africans? I live in the United States where Americans never show overt hostility toward immigrants. An American will never threaten you just because you are an immigrant. Again, shame on you South Africans!


    I do not know whether you are an African American or a genetically modifies creature that makes youtalk like that. However whichever bread you are you have soe ties to sit and think what you are about to say.

    AS FOR JUSTINE from Iowa YOU ARE SO RIGHT I HAVE NOTING ELSE TO SAY. I have read your article which says in part

    “I have to respond to James…. dude are you living in a dream world? I hear hostility to immigrants all the time. Hatred against Mexican/Latin American immigrants is so common it just bleeds into the background nowadays and you don’t even notice it. People around here HATE. You hear it all the time.

    Go to Idaho and listen to people talk about immigrants. I have an uncle there and its hard to even talk to him any more because every conversation ends up devolving into him hating on immigrants. Open your eyes man!” It is good to note that some real people are living in this turbulent world.


  35. May 19, 2008 at 19:00

    The frustrations of south Africans faced with the difficulties of economic stagnation and social imobility is understandable.
    stress not well handled is bound to cause rifts and tensions that can break the social fabrica.
    am from kenya. and it is surprising that my country has not issued a travel advisory by now
    kipsang kerich, in bomet south Rift kenya.

  36. May 19, 2008 at 19:02

    We have the same problems in the U.S. with Mexicans coming in. I blame the owners of companies who hire cheap labor. It’s not that people don’t want service jobs. It’s that they cannot survive on the paultry salaries these companies are willing to pay.

    John in Cleveland

  37. 37 Yogesh Pareek
    May 19, 2008 at 19:03

    This is really shameful..South Africa will really miss some terrific human resource.This is a globalized world and south africans must learn to deal with it .
    I am really afraid to say but South Africa is going the Zimbabwean way.

  38. May 19, 2008 at 19:09

    Dear BBC
    I wish the rioting South Africans would see the effect of South African companies in the rest of Africa. Small businesses are closing down because South African ones are muscling in and taking contracts in media, advertising, telecommunications, building trade etc.
    Please we are not rioting. We are either looking at improving ourselves or licking our wounds.
    let’s show some maturity.

    Mawuena in Accra, Ghana

  39. May 19, 2008 at 19:10

    It is shocking that the people we fed,housed and educated during apartheid can turn on their fellow africans. Ungrateful people! And they want to host the world cup.
    Steven,accra ghana

  40. May 19, 2008 at 19:10

    This Xenophobic attack on other african nationals is an indication that african unity is a mirage.
    Ashiru Abbas in Nigeria

  41. May 19, 2008 at 19:16

    If SA wants people out of their country,i think they should also be asked to leave other countries. Especially from Nigeria.
    Aaron in Nigeria

  42. May 19, 2008 at 19:16

    South africans shouldnt forget that us zambians host their liberation struggle against aparthied, mbeki was protected here, so he should protect our fellow africans there. Do they want us to chase south africans back to there homeland.
    Gregor from zambia.

  43. May 19, 2008 at 19:17

    the struggle for scarce resources is what’s behind the attacks.just like here in kenya.
    jonathan biwo

  44. May 19, 2008 at 19:17

    South africa is a time bomb. It is now on the slippery slope to anarchy.
    George in Ghana

  45. 45 Jessica F
    May 19, 2008 at 19:18

    Yesterday, my heart broke a little bit. I am a South African national who lives and breathes the beauty of her country and seeing the violence and bloodshed that has become the focus of international media leaves me cold. Yes, the disparity of wealth has not been correctly addressed; yes, nearly 15 years on we are still facing the same social flaws and yes, the government have not delivered the new future they promised our lost generation.

    However, this situation hasn’t exploded out of nothing and the the international community cannot, now, throw up their hands, claim ignorance, demonise an entire nation and look at this one incident in isolation. It has been coming for a LONG time … and it needs to be looked at in context.

    A lack of options, a lack of education and a frustration built on the back of 15 years of no change and a lifetime of oppression has boiled down into a fine bile of xenophobic wrath. International media swivel their camera onto the said wrath with aveangance and publicise this as news. It not news, it’s something that has been going on for a long time that has finally reached its boiling point – the international focus should have been drummed up years ago in order to halt this potential disaster in its tracks. Everyone looking on now with their mouths agape helps nothing, it helps nobody.

    International apathy, national apathy, a stance of quiet diplomacy and the tried and true ostrich head in the sand means we missed this and now so many precious lives have been lost. My heart broke a little bit yesterday because we are back where we started and people honestly seem shocked. It’s now our responsibility and the responsibility of the international community to read the signs, maintain the interest and not let it peter out when our countries dramatic loss of control slowly trickles out of the headlines. Unless we maintain the vigilance, we are going to see the cycle repeated again and again. And, Im afraid as the options gradually diminish, so the violence will increase.

  46. May 19, 2008 at 19:19

    South african government was quiet when zim was burning. Now their home is on fire. Should the world remain quiet? South africa is an island in africa that is now getting flooded. Come on be africans and lets bring peace.

  47. 47 Sallie-Anne
    May 19, 2008 at 19:19

    As a South African I am appalled at what is happening in my country. I am also disappointed at the reporting from Lee from Yfm: to blame the fact that black South Africans are divided along tribal lines because of the apartheid government engineering that situation is narrow minded and, as a dedicated BBC Radio 4 and BBC World Service listener, I am surprised that Lee was allowed to make this allegation twice. I have no doubt that the apartheid government did play a role, however, look at the rest of Africa and you will see similar tribal divides despite the lack of apartheid regimes in those countries. Genocides in Rwanda and Burundi and the recent violence in Kenya are just 2 examples of many. I rely on the BBC for unbiased reporting to educate myself on situations in countries I do not know or understand very well and wonder if I knew less about South Africa if I would have been taken in my this one sided view?

  48. May 19, 2008 at 19:19

    The South Africans should treat others with respect because one day they may find themselves refugees in other African Countries.
    Rajab Simon, Kampala.

  49. May 19, 2008 at 19:20

    YES YES YES. I am a kenyan civil servant who attends several international meetings and i think south africans think they are better than other africans. Susan in nairobi

  50. May 19, 2008 at 19:21

    South africans should reason fairly. We also have foreigners like the chinese and indians doing better than some zambians but none of them has ever beenburnt alive.

    From Nkole in Zambia

  51. May 19, 2008 at 19:22

    I have to say that south africans do think of themselves as better. I’m a zimbabwean living in zambia and the south africans i meet here really make me ashamed because of their superior attitude. They seem oblivious to the assistance they have recieved from other african countries. The saddest thing is that this xenophobia is directed only at black foreigners!

  52. May 19, 2008 at 19:23

    I’m an African i was happy when we were awarded soccer world cup but now i wish they can take it away becasue of stupid south african viva Africa let’s unite against them and boycott the world cup.

  53. May 19, 2008 at 19:23

    Yes South Africans are snobbish. Some tourists came to maasai mara and they said, we are going to africa where people are poor.we will go back to europe.
    Edward in Nairobi

  54. May 19, 2008 at 19:24

    Yes South Africans are snobbish. Some tourists came to maasai mara and they said, we are going to africa where people are poor.we will go back to europe.
    Edward in Nairobi

  55. May 19, 2008 at 19:24

    Most south africans dont know much about other african countries. Yes they do look down on us. And south africa media is to blame because the always show bad side of africa. When they show our cities they show shanties.
    mwalula from zambia

  56. May 19, 2008 at 19:25

    Yes South Africans are snobish and very unfriendly. I was there in April and got appalled. Being Zambian, its difficult for me hear people we hosted in Zambia during appartheid think we are second class. Its a shame! Nkweto.

  57. May 19, 2008 at 19:25

    It is a shame that a country which the whole of Africa fought for to gain their freedom less than 2 decades ago will engage their fellow Africans worse than the aparthied did to them. I regret their independence. Clifford a Ghanain student in UK

  58. 58 Roberto
    May 19, 2008 at 19:26

    nobody is disenfranchised in Soth Africa.

    ——- Sorry, Vic, this is surely either a terrible joke or just complete nonsense.

    Most every country in the world has areas of poor, disenfranchised peoples. South Africa being notorious for joblessness, shantytowns the size of townships, and notorious violence for a long time that has continued to subsist in spite of the power transfer and reforms.

    It doesn’t matter that the disenfranchised may vote for the ANC. The ANC is just the remains of a rebel group that has yet to figure out the trick of governance in a challenged new democracy. The problem is immensely bigger than any political party and won’t be solved until more effective leadership emerges and the open wounds of the past have scarred over..

    Democracy is not just a majic wand that turns everything good. The US had the terrible upheaval in their Civil War where something like close to 4% of the population, primarily soldiers, but plenty of citizens also. Germany had it’s World War and Berlin Wall disasters. Mexico just a joke of a democracy, and on and on.

    The average voter casting his vote for the candidate that wins seldoms improves his lot unless he’s one of the elite with party connections.

  59. May 19, 2008 at 19:27

    Shame on south africans. Its not the foreigners problem that you not educated not to be employed in your own country. Remember were you came from. You’re ungrateful. Shame.
    Davy Nsama lusaka Zambia.

  60. May 19, 2008 at 19:29

    I am a Ugandan and I believe this problem has been simmering under the surface. The sheer numbers of immigrants has overwhelmed the South African system’s ability to cope and absorb the additional stress. Not withstanding the economy was already struggling to accomodate the native poor .
    Isaac from Uganda.

  61. May 19, 2008 at 19:30

    South Africa cant live as an island. They may be doing well now but they wil need their neighbours one day.
    They should never be harsh to others.
    Douglas, Zambia.

  62. May 19, 2008 at 19:30

    South Africans “if u dont knw where you’re going, at least know where you’re from”. U dont even deserve to host the World cup on behalf of Africa.
    Songor Koedoyoma

  63. May 19, 2008 at 19:31

    Will Thambo Mbeki see this as a crisis? He kept quiet over Zimbabwe’s issue and that is why there are over 3 million Zimbabweans in South Africa.
    Yusufari in Nigeria

  64. May 19, 2008 at 19:32

    Why does xenophobia still persist in south africa? South africa that acted as a model for africa is now a disgrace to africa.
    Paul ezeani from nigeria

  65. 65 Lovemore
    May 19, 2008 at 19:32

    Let them play the world cup alone without other countries paticipating. Why? coz they are foreigners!

  66. May 19, 2008 at 19:35

    It is a fact. South Africans see themselves as superior to the rest of Black Africa. It is a racism which makes no sense. Every country in Africa has immigrant workers and the same problems. We just hear of hostility towards blacks there. South Africa is one country i do not want to even visit.
    Manna in Accra

  67. May 19, 2008 at 19:36

    This is what happens when people given responsibility don’t take charge president mbeki has actually failed southern africa.
    chimwani from nairobi kenya.

  68. May 19, 2008 at 19:37

    The South Africans should treat others with respect because one day they may find themselves refugees in other African Countries.
    Rajab in Uganda

  69. May 19, 2008 at 19:38

    It’s really a question of education.
    Dumb the kids down and they start acting stupid.

    There is no education in place in S.A. that deals with not only the academic but the social requirements so dsperately needed by that country. Not 15 years down the down and these “You have to treat them like children” people still try to regain control of their country.

    This is going to be a long road to freedom. Trouble is, S.A. is not a Banana Republic (no offense, I like bananas), This country grows diamonds and gold! And that’s not all! And it kills people doing mining it through shoddy management.

    I would say, at risk, that the country is still dominated by De Beers and the Gold Guys, whatever they might want to call themselves at the moment. Certainly the old attitude hasn’t changed, it’s just gone underground. “You are not allowed to say that anymore” is the sad cry of the (not so old) old Boer as they cruise past the jobless and the shoeless, in BMW air conditioned comfort.

    There is no education. Not where it is needed.

    was East London E.C., now Berlin, Europe. Not the one near E.L)

  70. 70 Lovemore
    May 19, 2008 at 19:38

    Zimbabweans once looked down upon Zambians after being assisted by Zambia in their (Zimbabwe’s) liberation struggle. Guess what, they are in trouble again and they are comming back. South Africans should not think that they will never need our help again.

  71. May 19, 2008 at 19:40

    Solomon also in Uganda
    With this type of behaviour they shud never criticize whites 4 being racist because they r more racist.

  72. May 19, 2008 at 19:40

    I’m an African i was happy when we were awarded the soccer w cup bt now i wish they can take it away because of the way in which SA’s are behaving. Let’s unite against them and boycot the world cup.
    Sylvester in Seychelles

  73. May 19, 2008 at 19:41

    South africans should reason fairly. We also have foreigners like the chinese and indians doing better than some zambians but none of them has ever been burnt alive.

    Nkole in Zambia

  74. May 19, 2008 at 19:41

    South african government was quiet when zim was burning. Now their home is on fire. Should the world remain quiet? South african is an island in africa that is now getting flooded. Come on be africans and lets bring peace.
    Anonymous in Uganda

  75. May 19, 2008 at 19:41

    Africans tend to treat visitors and strangers better than their own as long as they dont overstay: its our culture.
    Nana in Ghana

  76. May 19, 2008 at 19:42

    In my view,I think what the South Africans doing the foreign Nationals is just a system to express their grievances to world about the high cost of living they found themselves in which they put the responsibility on foreigners

  77. 77 Roberto
    May 19, 2008 at 19:42

    ——–That should read approx 4% of the citizens, primarly young men, lost their lives in the American Civil War.

  78. May 19, 2008 at 19:46

    S.A is just too violent world cup will be a disaster-Harry, Zambia

  79. May 19, 2008 at 19:52

    I have lived with South african’s,they r very genuine & warm people,i think its mob mentality thats causing this.
    Maina in Nairobi

  80. May 19, 2008 at 19:52

    I have lived with South african’s,they r very genuine & warm people,i think its mob mentality thats causing this.
    Maina in Nairobi

  81. May 19, 2008 at 19:52

    It is a fact.South Africans see themselves as superior to the rest of Black Africa.It is a racism which makes no sense.Every country in Africa has immigrant workers and the same problems.We just hear of hostility towards blacks there.South Africa is one country i do not want to even visit.
    Manna in Accra

  82. May 19, 2008 at 19:52

    Will the south africans make 2010 w.cup a success? I dont think black s.africans even like 2 work at all
    Set in Uganda

  83. May 19, 2008 at 19:52

    What’s going on in S.A. is unafrican. I believe it’s a well orchestrated event. There are shadowy figures behind what’s going on.
    Walter in Nigeria

  84. May 19, 2008 at 19:55

    I am a kenyan living in Ghana fo over 1 year. I believe the so called ‘african hospitality’ does not exist. My xperience is that ghanaians r hospitable and friendly with people from the west but to fellow africans,they r simply polite but not friendly.

  85. May 19, 2008 at 19:56

    South africa has been in decline since apartheid power,crime,economic prbs they cant help zimbabwe world cup may really expose them

  86. May 19, 2008 at 19:56

    Attacks are on Black immigrants. Competing for jobs doesn’t mean i should be burnt. South Africans are in US and the poor black Americans are not burning them.

  87. May 19, 2008 at 19:56

    The behavior of South Africa is just one example of ’ill-equiped, ill-prepared, selfish, unthankful’ bunch – now adopting their own brand of apartheid

  88. May 19, 2008 at 19:57

    I believe that what this hineous group in South Africa is doing is born out of ignorance. This is because instead of them beckoning on their government to change its policies towards employment they went about sheding blood which no doubt is a baberic act. They should remember that those who live in glass houses do not throw stones. As some of their nationals occupy exhaulted positions in other countries. And also they seem to have forgotten the role played by other African countries during aparthied. OKOYE MIKE ZAMFARA STATE NIGERIA

  89. 89 Lovemore
    May 19, 2008 at 20:06

    It won’t be long before they turn on fellow South Africans – tribe Vs tribe.

  90. May 19, 2008 at 21:04

    Several countries have had an influx of foreign immigrants, refugeees and illegal immigrants, not only in South Africa. It is a great problem for governments and not easy to solve, it is only natural the inhabitants of these countries feel they are being invaded threatened, and that their lifestyles are changing, especially when large groups have a common religion or ethnic background and do not assillimate with others. The explosion of terror in South Africa is due to the lifestyles of the South African peoples being threatened and it wont be the last country that resorts to the violence being done today.
    On the other hand it is diabolical that immigrants and children of Immigrants in Britain carry out terrorist acts by causing deaths to innocent men women and children whilst they themselves live in security, they are the lowest of low and guttersnipes to boot.

  91. May 19, 2008 at 21:06

    This is just incredible!
    Instead of venting their spleen on their governement for not making jobs available for them, South Africans are taking it out on ordinary migrants whose only crime is that they are scrapping the crumbs of employment. What a shame!

  92. 92 Tyrone
    May 19, 2008 at 21:40

    I am South African & after reading some of your comments I believe that your suppositions needs proper feedback, straight from the horses mouth.
    Yes! it is mostly happening in townships but the fear of it spiralling out of control is very real. Many of us strongly believe that the blame for these tragic xenophobic attacks lay squarely at the feet of “the president of quiet diplomacy” Mr Thabo Mbeki, and no… he does not ask people to act like barbarians, nor does he condone the madness, yet whats happening is a direct result of various failed goverment policies led by him. It painful when ev’ryone else knows that you don’t allow a rotten apple into a basket filled with fresh apples as the rot will spread, yet Mr Mbeki openly welcomes Mr Mugabe into the fold of SADEC and covers up for his friend from Zimbabwe at ev’ry turn. Our president has done nothing concrete to resolve the “rot”, in Zimbabwe nor has he put proper structures in place at our borders to legally contain and deal with the hordes of refugees streaming into South Africa. In our country, to worsen matters, most of the social inequalities remain that were present, pre-1994. The present ruling party promised voters all kinds of “Pie in the Sky” for their votes and now, 14 years later, very few of it has materialized, so people are angry, frustrated and feel helpless. They can’t turn to the goverment for help. Our polititians live in lavish luxury, massive mansions, corruption and brand new BMW X5’s are the order of the day. They promise the poor and never deliver and with more refugees, more and more people need the same resources for their daily existence.The majority of us don’t condone whats happening but the goverments “non delivery” are fuelling poor peoples frustrations, which are steadely boiling over. The underlying root cause, I believe, is not xenophobia.

  93. May 19, 2008 at 21:51

    Its high time Africans stop going to that HIV infested nation.
    Anyone ever wondered why they were caused with the disease??….
    Mandela or no Mandela they should allow common sense prevail in their HIV infested heads.

  94. 94 Shakhoor Rehman
    May 19, 2008 at 22:02

    The Broederbond still run RSA. ANC are just window dressing and the rest is logical.

  95. May 19, 2008 at 22:32

    Don’t criticize the black S.A. for going on the rampage, making Toi.
    They’ve had enough.
    Most of Africa has a peacefull and cooperatve transition into independence froom these heavies that moved in from mainly Europe, stole everything, then fucked offf.
    S.A. haven’t had this experience. It’s too rich, it has nukes, the Powers “That Are” need to rock the boat It is in their interests.
    Think about that.
    Live in fear, they generate it.


  96. 96 Nana Tutu Yeboah
    May 19, 2008 at 22:41

    i will never be surprised if the xenophobic activities going on in south Africa is backed by racially wicked and self seeking white job owners

  97. 97 Ashley Mwaanga Zambian
    May 19, 2008 at 23:07

    Do you mean that South Africa only has BLACK non nationals? I dont see any WHITES complaining.This means that xenophobia is the excuse used to justify crimes against humanity.

    The rest of the world must campaign to find an alternative venue for 2010 or else we will all be attacked. We wont be accomodated. This is the real side of South Africans. Unfortunately the other races within this nation will have to be labled as well.
    President Mbeki should declare a state of emergency and bring in the army to help restore law and order. The police can no longer cope.
    A few black South Africans have been attacked and their businesses looted. Be very careful. You might have ethnic cleansing within your precious borders. Then where will you go?

  98. 98 Jamal
    May 19, 2008 at 23:22

    its rather unfortunate that this is happeing in S.A as

  99. 99 Stanley Nebo
    May 19, 2008 at 23:27

    South Africans must stopped blaming the immigrants or their neighbours for what’s happening to them.What is happening is within them and live in them. S.A . is freed from the outside but the inside is not. Typical South Africans couldn’t find their way out despite the riches in the country, because they’re not willing to sacrifice.

  100. 100 Wakayima
    May 20, 2008 at 00:25

    The hate towards immigrants in S.Africa is not justified at all but one may try to explain the underlying causes which must also be addressed.

    This is a desperate reaction and crystallization of the forsaking attitudes of African politicians – It is such a pity that Mebki and Mugabe just watch on and cling to sophisticated arguments about colonialism.

    Similary in the rest of the continent, the forsaking attitude of African leaders who engage in sophiscated colonialism arguments without any clear strategy of moving forward can be traced – It is a shame that they rather suck materia, aid and money from the West while at the same time execessively marginzalizing their subordinates.

    In many ways national sovereignity has being abused by these leaders,.

    Today we need some international intervention policy to curb down on those political and poverty issues causing massive migration, since many regions are affected. This abuse legimitizes the interference of the world.

    Migrants as individuals undergo a lot of suffering and pain across the world.

    I guess now is also the time to bring the likes of Railla Odinga to the Hague. This kind of mentalitat of burning pple and extreme brutalisation as a political negotiation strategy is pionered by him.

    It should be condemed and comprehensively addressed in schools, community work public education activities and public awareness campagains before it can spill over.

    The issue of Mugabe and Zibambwe must be addressed.

    These are also issues of Social justice.

    Note that social justice is at stake not onloy in Africa but also in the whole world -There is an increase in violent youth crimes because of the ultra marginalization and lack of perspectives.

    The situation of youth ought to be addressed.

  101. 101 Wakayima
    May 20, 2008 at 01:08

    The hate towards immigrants in S. Africa is not justified at all but one may try to explain the underlying causes which must also be addressed.
    This is a desperate reaction and crystallization of the forsaking attitudes of African politicians – It is such a pity that Mbeki and Mugabe just watch on and cling to sophisticated arguments about colonialism.
    Similarly in the rest of the continent, the forsaking attitude of African leaders who engage in sophiscated colonialism arguments without any clear strategy of moving forward can be traced – It is a shame that they rather suck material, aid and money from the West while at the same time excessively marginalizing their subordinates.
    In many ways national sovereignty has being abused by these leaders,.
    Today we need some international intervention policy to curb down on those political and poverty issues causing massive migration, since many regions are affected. This abuse legitimizes the interference of the world.
    Migrants as individuals undergo a lot of suffering and pain across the world.
    I guess now is also the time to bring the likes of Railla Odinga to the Hague. This kind of mentality of burning people and extreme brutalization as a political negotiation strategy is pioneered by him.
    These acts of violence should be condemned, taboolized and comprehensively addressed in schools, community work public education activities, public awareness campaigns, folks music and modern music all over Africa to hinder their reoccurrence.
    The issue of Mugabe and Zimbabwe must be addressed to solve the presenting problems.
    These are also issues of Social justice.
    Note that social justice is at stake not only in Africa but also in the whole world -There is an increase in violent youth crimes because of the ultra marginalization and lack of perspectives.
    The situation of youth ought to be addressed, governments ought to provide education, training, employment opportunities and social infrastructure.

  102. 102 Isingoma
    May 20, 2008 at 01:36

    Alas ! The days of the great deception!

  103. 103 Thembi
    May 20, 2008 at 07:28

    Fifa should take away the world cup from South Africa, I am ashamed of being black, how can we do this to our fellow africans. We complained about apartheid but we are doing the same thing to our brothers. FIFA please take away the world cup from South Africa, we do not deserve to host this event.

    Our president is as useless as a egg lifter, the government are not doing enough to curb this violence. These are truly sad times for South Africa and Africa.

    Its disgusting!!!! Take the world cup away from us and maybe this could be a very serious wake up call for the president and the government……

  104. 104 Alex in Nairobi
    May 20, 2008 at 07:43

    The goldfish is famed for its not-too-impressive memory. Methinks its time Black South Africans were crowned champions. How could they forget the support they got from their neighbours against apartheid? How could they forget what role Zimbabweans have played in South Africans’fight for freedom?

    My second and equally important worry is the timing of this crisis. I’m tempted to believe that discrimination against foreigners happens everywhere in the world, whether first, second, third or even fourth world. I can’t really point out what is wrong with the timing of these attacks but something funny seems to be taking root. Just when China is about to host the Olympics for the first time ever, Tibetans remember that they have been fighting for independence and not just autonomy. And now that the world is almost sure South Africa is to hold the world cup, black South Africans suddenly wake up to realize that their job pool is flooded with foreigners. Who else in Asia, S. America or in Africa is about to host anything international? Be careful! I loudly pray that my country will not be hosting anything international [and that could steal attention from the ‘owners’] because we may wake up to realize that our mothers have been getting most of our dads’ attention!

  105. 105 Symon Gathecha In Juba
    May 20, 2008 at 08:23

    The issue that is emanating now from South Africa is not as the so called experts or analysts wold want us to believe as competition for resource between the indigenous population and the immigrant population.
    the truth of the matter is that South Africans have a big Attitude problem against other Black Africans. They see themselves superior and sophisticated and do not even wish to be lumped together with the rest of Africa. This is well illustrated in sayings such as “Subsaharan Africa excluding South Africa”. Many a times have the south africans tried to wrestle off other African states hosting important world bodies and events saying their infrastructure is well developed and security is uptodate.
    Such countries like Kenya which hosts the only UN HQ in third world countries, Ethiopia which has the headquarters of the AU, previously the only world raly event in Africa the Safari rally and now the Dakar Rally. Foreigners living in south Africa are usually shouted at in the streets being called” makwerekwere” which i believe is derogatory.
    South Africa for sure is the great deception!!!

  106. 106 Eugene Ngumi
    May 20, 2008 at 09:41

    as an african or forigner having lived in South Africa for two years to attend one of its more prestigious school, I know and have experienced xenophobia. It is well known around africa and in south africa itself that africa is the most developed and richest state on the continent.
    However South Africans see other Africans coming in to steal their prosperity and riches and riches this is coupled with the disillusionment of freedom that Africa knows all to well. All the promise and hope of 1994 have faded into a distant memory and squalor, inequity and poverty reign. Since they cannot take it out on their politicians through the democratic process due to quirks in the constitution and no alternative to the anc the foreigner is the last scapegoat. This xenophobia is not limited to the poor, having attended a rich school as an African i know that rich South Africans regard the rest of Africa as many in the west do, full of poverty, despair, hunger, and corruption.
    Xenophobia in south Africa is a result of decades of South African telling themselves, they are better than the rest of Africa, combined with anger at promises not delivered. South Africa needs to embrace the rest of Africa not look down upon it as a poor relation. I find it disgusting that South Africans can burn their fellow africans who in their time of need harbored and gave asylum to them and their leaders. That the other African states were the first to recognize the immorality of minority rule and embargo and cut off ties with the apartheid leaders and their people are being burnt alive in the streets that Zimbabwe (a beacon of warning to South Africa showing it how not to do things) whose people have fled despotism and despair are being clubbed and beaten and thrown out of homes. Shame on you South Africa for all the moral high ground they claim to have and hope they claim to hold they are as bad as the worst of them

  107. 107 Mary
    May 20, 2008 at 11:09

    What is happening in South Africa is a shame!!! They are really short sighted and have forgotten history. During the aparthied error Mbeki and Jacob Zuma once lived in Zambia and Zimbabwe respectively. Many other ANC leaders were also living in Zambia….. Zambia sacrificed a lot of its resources assisting black south africans in their liberation strugle…at one time a suburb in Lusaka which was housing ANC members was bombed….in case South Africans have forgotten all this please Mbeki and Zuma tell your people the role played by your neigbouring countries in your liberation strugle…

    Mary, Zambia

  108. 108 Seanito
    May 20, 2008 at 11:47

    I am South African! Xenophobia is nothing new, it happens in most countries in the world where there are foreigners, but in SA it is a mix of different elements, poverty is the main factor here and the inheritance from the former regime who created this hatred within my people, we hated each other during the apartheid. When I grew up, we cud not just go into any area and walk freely, (I mean the black areas) A culture of crime and hatred existed in every settlement, with its own survival rules, gangsters and all that goes with it. Today, there are elements of this hatred, but now towards foreigners, the very same foreigners who helped us liberate SA and gave us refuge when we needed. The governments Liberal Economic Policies has failed the average and below average South African. We need change, a rennaisance, and many are welcoming the exit of the honorable Mr Mbeki in 2009. He needs to come out strongly and condemn this and act immediately and leave it up to his Ministers. The state is responsible for all who reside within its boundaries!!!

    The issue of the jobs, that is BS, many complain that foreigners take jobs and whatever. I eperienc4ed this when I was in exile, it the jobs that they themselves do not want. Some foreigners get 50cents an hour. There is also a hole in the Labour Laws and this amkes the corporates to hire so called cheap labour such as foreigners and pay them crappy wages….

    It is complex and there is no quick fixes…

  109. May 20, 2008 at 12:00

    Greetings Earthlings!!

    I’m deeply sadden by the out of controll events in SA between fellow Africans but very frastrated by the fact that this is another transregional politically motivated action by Mbeki and his best pal Mugabe against MDC supporters in exile,Plez peace loving SA citizens behave, take a minute silence and pay a decent respect yur Founding Father Nelson Mandela, You are fortunate coz Mine is dead i.e Dr. John Garang.
    Other wise very ill minded people are having a good time like the western world calling African leaders Stomach politicians or Muslim fernatics calling jihad to Islamize for the world to be a better place.
    Come to think of it the root cause of all this is citizens of Zimbabwe and their leaders because, the masses be very radical to effect regime change therefore preventing the host nation from getting sick of your troubles.

  110. May 20, 2008 at 12:14

    The problem stems from bad government and no job creation.
    The impact of minumum wage on this society has led South Africans to employ illegally rather than get involved in costly employment and civil actions that are a result of labour being priced far beyond what an employer expects and ca afford to pay.
    Without the minimum wage legislations that South Africa has, the average man can take a job and the employer can pay and the going wage will adjust to the market employment rate. The South Afican can choose to take the job or not at the rate and feed himself or not. This way illegals take jobs from South Africans who are sitting on the side asking what they have done. “I mean after all the governemt with all its wage increases and benefit increases was supposed to make life better for them, why are they still unemployed after 15 years of not working”? No contractor jobs, waiter jobs, gardening jobs! All because of the labour act imposing too many restrictions on the employer.
    In other countries and other climates, minimum wage can work. Here let the man earn and feed his family.

  111. May 20, 2008 at 12:49

    mmmm….Xenophobia ( the new taboo slur for ‘cultural incompatability’) is a growing problem not in the ‘new’ South Africa but in the ‘new’ world. Human beings have not transcended cultural and territorial imperatives and are unlikely to do so in the foreseeable future. There is nothing specific to South Africa here.

    The problem here is too many people and not enough gainful employment. This is a problem that more and more Europeans are complaining about too. So this, too, is not specific only to the new South Africa.

    The difficult question is why indigene South Africans voice their complaints by setting foreigners alight. It’s a question in the same category as : Why do indigene South Africans murder people to steal a cellphone or a wallet containing a few rands? Why the quick resort to the ultimate violence? the holding of life so cheaply?

    Any cultural anthropologists out there willing to brave this question?

    Sad to see contributors to this blog riding the old Apartheid donkey to death again, as though the question at hand has anything to do with Black/White relations.

    But why, O why indeed, do the Whites still have the nice houses and the German cars? A very tricky question, this one. Clearly the Whites must be doing something wrong again. Any answers from the cultural anthropologists on this one?

    Think I’ll emigrate to India where poverty and income disparity are not blamed on Whites and are not seen to justify burning foreigners in the streets.

  112. 112 The Truth Hurts
    May 20, 2008 at 13:45

    First of all, please refrain from referring to the barbaric savages who perpetrate these horrendous crimes as South Africans. They are Azanians. You won’t catch a decent, honest, hard-working, religious South African doing these things. Disgusting!

    Secondly: please don’t cancel our hosting of the 2010 Soccer World Cup! No, honestly! We, the true South Africans, really want you here so that you may experience, first hand, what we have to go through every single day of our lives. Over and above risking becoming a victim of xenophobia, perhaps then you will also have a greater understanding of the term “genocide” – which is, after all, what has been going on here for years now. Maybe then the fact that more than 20 000 people are murdered in this country every year, will actually mean something to you.

    Where are all the anti-apartheid activists now that apartheid has, for quite some time now, been rearing its ugly head? Your silence is not only deafening, it is sickening. Oh jeez, where’s my mind? Apartheid is only apartheid when perpetrated by a white Government. My mistake.

    See you in 2010!

  113. May 20, 2008 at 14:22

    Actually, this is a shame. Will South Africa continue to be a shame to Africa and Afrians?
    South Africa has got many problems, but she seems the do not know about these issues.

    Quite recently, South Africans enjoyed the support of all Africans during the apartheid era. With the support of Africans, the finally go liberation.
    Following this, the have got highest crime rate in all Africa. Now, they are killing there own neighbors, brothers and relatives in the name of protecting economy.

    I want to remind all South Africans that they have got their citizens working in other countries as well. In addition to this, they requested to host the World Cup Finals in 2010. Is this the way you will host the World Cup of 2010? Do not forget, the World Cup 2010 will bring thousands of immigrants and migrants to South Africa. What is your intention, will you carry out our old ways, by killing them all….?

    In addition, I want to remind you South Africans that we are in the world of globazation. This is the new system that have reform the world and disolved all the borders. One of the effect of the globalization is migration and immigration. I am sure that South Africa has and continue to benefit from this system. Therefore, please stop this shamful behavour. This not of Africa. Our culture never call for this. We respect your country. We count on you in Africa to be a role model. So please put on possitive behaviours. The rest of Africa expect better things from you…. If you cannot lead, sit and let other countries lead, but do not continue to tanish the reputition of Africa to the rest of the world.

  114. May 20, 2008 at 14:37

    And, as for Malc Dow, writing from among the autobahns, your criticisms of South Africa are those of the couch-potato socialist. Writing from a country whose multicultural problems were solved 60 years ago in the most appalling manner ( and where Daniel Barenboim was recently finessed out of the Berlin Philharmonic), should surely serve to infuse you with some caution when attacking South African shortcomings.

    This is a country obviously going through a tremendous readjustment in every sphere of endeavour, including the multicultural and economic spheres. It is not Germany, which, for better or for worse, has already made its readjustments.

    My wife and I recently rescued four Turkish ladies who had lost their car keys on a local beach, with night coming on. We brought them home, arranged alternative transport etc etc.. and had a great conversation with these delightful people.

    They could not stop telling us how accepted they felt everywhere in South Africa, and how helpfully they were everywhere treated, in sharp contrast to the treatment they received in their country of adoption….Germany. There, in the land of Milch und Honig, it appears, they felt quite lost and discriminated against.

    So much for anecdotal evidence, malc.

  115. 115 Kogilan Govender
    May 20, 2008 at 15:14

    Ok firstly I am from South Africa and please dont generalise in saying that South Africans are doing this. Des Currie put it best at 2.51pm.
    Thabo is to blame, His govt is to blame and now he wants to set up ANOTHER committee to investigate. The blood of those people are on his hands,his and all those barbarians that allowed these things to happen in their communities.
    I am sure as president of one the most advanced (technologically) countries on the continent; his wise advisors could have hinted to him that not stopping millions of illegal’s pouring into the country would cause problems. Allowing these illegals to mix with the general population would cause problems.Sad truth is, he doesnt give a damn, his govt dont care,they just keep lining there pockets and keep singing struggle songs making empty promises, holding hands with tyrants and blaming everything on Apartheid.

  116. 116 Barbara in Johannesburg
    May 20, 2008 at 15:17

    Yes, this is, and no, it isn’t, the new South Africa.
    This has been a very dangerous place for very many years, full of suffering for very many people, and it remains so. That’s not new. (I often wonder why anybody ever thought it was going to be as easy as a few months of meetings, a declarative election in 1994, and a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to turn the thing around.)
    Fact is, that there are very many South Africans thinking and working hard to build South Africa. I want to keep faith with them.

  117. 117 Virginia Davis
    May 20, 2008 at 15:35

    Have read through this blog till 7:24 am here in Portland, OR. And read the latest news on BBC Online. As well as the posted article by the white journalist talking with the people of Alexandra. Am impressed by the variety/expression from everyone.

    Dislike all the way to violence against “the other” is part of who we all are today.

    I went deep into myself after being beaten up by a man who was living with me and woke up the next morning to “total body rage.” If I had worked in an old folks’ home, Mr. Jones would have fallen down the stairs. If I had been a single mother with a small child, I would have hurt the child. I experienced that “total body rage” which was the “need” to hurt someone physically who could not hurt me back in the confines of our local mental hospital.

    Thankfully most of us most of the time are not violent toward others.

    These last weeks have been painful as the violence of the Earth affects Burma and China.

    And now the pain of the violence of people in SA against “the others” in SA.

    You are all in my prayers, please keep me in yours.


  118. 118 Isaac Andrew Bangura
    May 20, 2008 at 17:56

    If South Africans don`t want to see foreigners,why then you bid for the 2010 World cup?
    Shame on you, for a Country that is believed to be the beacon of Economic and Political Prosperity in Africa is behaving in such an irresponsible way like this.

    Isaac from Sierra Leone.

  119. 119 Louisa Arndt
    May 20, 2008 at 23:39

    When times are hard, when there are too few jobs, not enough food or housing, and few prospects for anything better, people lash out at immigrants. It happens here in the U.S. It’s happening in Europe. Hunger, malnutrition, violence and war are the inevitable consequences of soaring population increases.
    Africa’s rate of growth is the highest in the world – 2.36% – and 43% of its population is under age 15. Currently with 13% of the world’s population, Africa is projected to see 34% of the globe’s population increase over the next 50 years, from 800 million to 1.8 billion in 2050. Africa now produces nearly 30% less food per person than in 1967.
    No problem can be solved if the problem itself keeps getting bigger! Neither walls nor armies are of any use. The most effective means of achieving a stable population – and a sustainable economy – is the education of women.

  120. May 21, 2008 at 05:12

    It is not NATO or washington force apartheid leaders to free these leaders who are now murdering their neightbours whom gave some of them help during apartheid era. It was poor former leader of Cuba who free them, his demond was only to leave from southern Africa if washington and NATO would free the prisoners under apartheid ruled and all colonal governments in Agola & some parts of that regions to agree for peaces with all southern Africa countries that agreement took place in Cairo. Now some bribs to repair their dam from NATO they become evils like apartheid period. Above all they planing to host 2010 Football world cup. If south Africa isn’t become one of evil empire under Washington & NATO rules. Every one in world will boycott Football world cup of 2010. It is better for you to deports these people back in there countries than to murders them like apartheid leaders killed some young SA people in apartheid era of evils.

  121. 121 Tsabu
    May 21, 2008 at 10:35


    I am a Black South African living in Joburg.
    The problem with Black South Africans is due to our self hate. We hate who we are and we hate everyone who comes to SA to show us what we can be, therefore in this case fellow Africans who come from war torn countries but still manage to do well for themselves in “our Country”. We send a message of “Rainbow nation” to the world but as you all can see that is not true. We are a country and a people in need of healing and self acceptance.
    All said this does not condone the evil we have done but merely shows the evil in our core. We suffered strongly during apartheid and the rest of Africa took us in and gave us shelter.
    The behaviour of those stupid, evil rubbishes does not represent the majority of South Africans. As I said earlier we have self hate and we are jealous of fellow Africans who come here with nothing and build empires for their children, we hate that because we cannot comprehend how these “makwerekwere” can be so successful in our own country. Instead of learning from our vibrant, business minded Africans we kill them. How stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    South Africans are generally xenophobic, this is not new but now its reached levels which are ……ja!
    I suppose all of this is a chance for us to get our act together,its an opportunity for us to question ourselves, its an opportunity for us to educate ourselves.
    My big worry is for the victims to be victims in vain, I hope and pray that their deaths become a lesson to us and a reflection of the evil at our core and the healing we need to do.This is so unAfrican. What happened to our UBUNTU. What happened to it takes a nation to raise an African child. What happened to all of that. What happened? Whats happening to us? What is wrong with us?Why are we allowing desperation to rule us?

  122. May 21, 2008 at 12:08

    Excuse me everyone……we are talking about the country that is hosting the 2010 World Cup……

    I am totally disgusted by the way not very much is being made out of that very well known fact…..

    FIFA hasn’t even said anything and not very much international coverage has been made…….

    If this was happening in another Western country that was hosting the World Cup there would be a huge international out cry about it…….

    Why not know…….????

    How can foreign tourists coming for the World Cup know that they wont be attacked for being foreign….????

    The crime rate all ready insures that a hell of a lot of tourists will be robbed or even killed…..

    Have any of you the slightest idea what Zimbabweans are already going through in Zim and now they must be treated to more beatings and killings in a country that has in its constitution that is supposed to protect us foreigners……

    Maybe Mr.Mbeki and the rest of the SA government think ”there is no crisis” like they stated about Zimbabwe…..

    What a joke……

    Get your act together and put pressure on South Africa to get its act and people sorted out…..

  123. May 21, 2008 at 12:14

    This a story from one of the victims……

    From here……http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2325526,00.html

  124. 124 tesfaye ( ethiopian)
    May 21, 2008 at 16:34

    shame on you s.africans.

  125. 125 Dennis :)
    May 22, 2008 at 06:02

    I hope IT is not the NEW South Africa….

    Dennis>Madrid, U.S.A.

  126. May 22, 2008 at 10:20

    Brothers and siters all over the world, Its not the time now to point fingures to South Africans or Foreigners. The matter is more spiritual than physical. The Bible says, we are not fighting against flesh and blood, but against spiritual forces in the air. lets join hands and pray for the situation to calm down. South Africans repent on behalf of those who are taking the law in their hands because they are bringing a curse on this nation. poeple all over pray that this does not spread to our countries.
    as the late Lucky Dube sang, lets take it to heart he said”Different colour one people” we may be from different countries but we are one. God sees us as one. with love and concern
    Thomas (Ugandan in South Africa)

  127. 127 joe nkadaani
    May 23, 2008 at 15:39

    African countries through the African Union are making attempts to make the different African countries into a United States of Africa. But with such still killings and violence against emigrants in South Africa dominating the African media, makes the whole process a utopia, a chase after the wind and an exercise in futurity. South Africans once again have demonstrated that they are better people under bondage, like the one they had under the Apartheid regime. What is happening in South Africa which I call the cost of helping people. After so much money and so many foreign African lives sacrificed to liberate South Africa, the very liberators of South Africa have become the victims and to pay another price. Please Africa arise!!!!!

  128. 128 Natalie
    May 25, 2008 at 19:46

    Please all remember that it is not all South Africans that are involved, it is black SA citizens, meanwhile white citizens are thinking they might be next!!!

    Johannesburg, SA

  129. 129 owen 'mshengu' greenland
    June 7, 2008 at 18:57

    Mbeki’s Silence and Ineptitude re Mugabe ( … nKhululeko!!! … )

    Date: 2008-04-26

    Before we become hysterical and cry about the “black on black” violence – let us not forget from whence these unpredictable acts of rage originated from.

    After almost 400 years of colonial rule (which meant a lot more than just “ruling” over those who were colonised) – but the enslaving of many countries with hundreds of differing cultures languages and traditions … the whole dehumanisation of Africa (and other developing countries).

    The pain and anguish that erupted from these barbaric invasions by “self-proclaimed” viceroys of the “One and Only God” who ruled by merciless acts of violence – over and over again – proclaiming their guardianship of the Holy Bible and their “God-Given” right to rule over everyone of colour – the world over …

    Much of what prevails in the developing world … or fails is the aftermath of colonialism – for it was their intent to poison the minds of their subjects by creating divisions between neighbours – thus “Divide and Conquer” or “Divide and Rule”.

    As we have long become fully aware of their dastardly deeds – how can our President – a former cadré of the Liberation Struggle be so comfortable and lie down to sleep at night whilst ignoring the injustices perpetrated by his comrade in The Struggle – one Robert Mugabe.

    Just what was it that so many thousands gave their lives for – but for the betterment of all peoples of Southern Africa – not just the hoity-toity upper-crusts.

    Whatever have the masses done to be ignored – to be ridden rough-shod over – trampled into obscurity – their identity and civil rights robbed of them … yet again …

    This whole feeble attempt to create awareness movements – protest marches only serves to incite matters further – for unless we are aware – of the history of Africa – past and present and keep abreast with the prevailing winds of change
    and how it impacts our people – we are nothing more than being after-the-fact know-it-all’s who admonish and dictate from far off lands – virtually divorced from our kith and kin in our homelands. At best, we can be guilty of inciting mass violence – fueling the mistrust that the former rulers created.

    That said; how can you … President Thabo Mbeki turn a blind eye … sit idle … speechless – whilst our brothers and sisters up North suffer gross injustices in the face of all that is Holy – in the context of Africa’s Liberation Struggles.

    I’m sure the Spirits of the former Giants of Africa: Kwame Nkhruma, Julius Nyerere, Jomo Kenyatta, Oginga Odinga, Tom Mboyo, Kenneth Kaunda, Patrice Lumumba, Eduardo Mondlane, Albert Luthuli, Walter Sisulu, Steve Biko and our beloved Madiba are all bleeding in sorrow and disgust …

    What about the many who suffered brutal – endless … often fatal torture at the hands of these viceroys of that “God” fellah.

    But, what of our cardrés of the struggle – the Ronnie Kasrils and eloquent Kader Asmal and many others who “conveniently” hide behind the comfort of their protective homes?

    Those of us who have spent any amount of time – years being housed at the magnanimous government’s expense in five-feet by eight-feet cells – should never forget from whence we came and for what we gave our lives for …

    Whatever happened to our Dream of Africa – where so many hundreds of thousands have given their lives in dedicated conviction for?

    Since when did corruption (lies, deceit, exploitation, theft) become the new truth …

    Come on Thabo Mbeki – search your soul and rekindle the promises that you made during the struggle. Remember the words of Mwalimu:

    “And no citizen of Africa can live in the comfort of their own self-respect – while other African citizens are being denied merely for being born for what they are …”

    Here, our hearts go out to our Zimbabwean, Malawian, Moçambiqano and Angolano brothers and sisters in these trying times …

    WOZA – we herald you for your unselfish efforts. May other women of Africa follow suit. (photo of three Zimbawean women outside of Zimbabwe Embassy, Washington, DC)


    These events have brought to us … all a very sad state of affairs for our country(s) – for during the decades of the struggle – it was our neighbours who stood by us – for us – never once shunning their camaraderie for a Free South Africa … For All!

    We all should hang our heads in shame – especially those in power who remained silent for so long – while our brothers and sisters suffered these ignominious acts of brutality … barbarism … while the police forces were rendered incapable.

    The Spirits of Nkrumah, Nyerere, Kenyatta, Kaunda, Mondlane, Lumumba, Sisulu, Luthuli, Sobukwe, Biko and our beloved Madiba – in his latter years – are all crying out – imploring … asking … “Whither Brotherhood?”

    Ya’khala ‘nkhomo!!!

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