Is this ‘the end’ for Hillary?

That’s how the BBC’s North America correspondent Justin Webb is describing the results in Indiana and North Carolina. Is he right? Is it time for Hillary to realise her dream of reaching the White House is over? Or should she fight on to the convention in Denver? Many thanks to Brett for moderating as the results came in.

64 Responses to “Is this ‘the end’ for Hillary?”

  1. 1 Benjamin OGEN
    May 7, 2008 at 10:12

    Its only the American people (democrats) who can decide whether its the end for Hilary or the lady herself.
    The American democrats should be colour blind and make a choice good for America and peharps repair america’s image damaged by GWB.
    if after Pastor Jeremiah wright’s mad ravings, loss in Pensylvania and his dark pigmentation Obama still manages to come out strong like this in NC and Indiana it just might be the end for Hilary.
    Benjamin Ogen
    Yadounde, Cameroon

  2. 2 teryila iorember
    May 7, 2008 at 10:38

    NO. this is a battle between race and sex and race may have the upper hand

  3. 3 steve
    May 7, 2008 at 11:21

    forget it hilary your time is up, obama for the white house, you lost three months ago.

  4. May 7, 2008 at 12:06

    No, sadly she is showing she cares nothing about America. She is power and money hungry. She is old and knows that in 8 years she won’t have a chance. She might in 4, but that would require her opponent not winning.

    This race has been about so much more then just race and sex. I didn’t realize how much race had to do with it until i started listening to people I would have thought were open minded before this all started. My own father who taught me to, “judge each man as you meet them” has thrown the “N” word around lately. It seems shehas cornered the market of those white people who were alive during the “Jim Crow” era.

    However this is also about people wanting something different the same old political empire. It is about the educated younger middle class vs. the uneducated middle class. It’s about voters who vote by an understanding of the issues vs. the voter that votes with their gut.

  5. May 7, 2008 at 12:13

    Go Barack, go Barack GO!

    High time Clinton join hands with Barack. Change is around the corner. I bet you, I can FEEL IT.

  6. 6 Brett
    May 7, 2008 at 12:38

    It’s been the end for a long time for Hillary. She just keeps turning back and digging up the last resorts to keep her in the game.
    Asking for Michigan and Florida to count:
    Jumping on the gas tax holiday bandwagon with hopes it would help her:
    And now she is calling ever more strongly that the Super Delegates know best, not the people and they should be the ones to decide and go against the will of the voters to elect her into office.

    The whole thing is pretty sad really. It’s like watching a bad episode of some bad TV Show like American Idol, and you know who is going to lose but they keep in there, episode after episode, no matter how poor their performances are.
    Maybe Simon will overrule the rest of the judges in this one and put her ontop? lol
    Hope not.

    Brett ~ Richmond, Va.

  7. 7 anonymous
    May 7, 2008 at 12:44

    I won’t be voting for either of them (see https://worldhaveyoursay.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/talking-points-for-7th-may/#comment-21022 ). However, I feel that Hillary should not be asked to leave the race until Barack has the 2025 pledged delegates necessary for nomination. Even if one of them gets the 2025, it would be courteos of th media to refer to him or her as the presumed nominee, as they generally do for McCain.

  8. May 7, 2008 at 13:17

    Happy is the man or woman who sees the end drawing near and know it is time for the stage to be lowered, for he or she will receive the loudest applause. Hillary, can you see the end of the road from here?

  9. May 7, 2008 at 14:00

    @ Shirley,

    Welcome to democracy. For that fact, welcome to any form of government really. Paranoia rules. Before it was the Muslims, it was the Communist. Before it was the Communists, it was the Nazis. Before that, it was more a nationalist and regional drive to the paranoia.

    Following your logic, if a candidate in say Iran were catholic, should they not vote for any of the candidates simply because none of them promote a pro-Christian agenda? In many Muslim countries they have a word to describe Christian political candidates with growing popularity. The term is “dead”.

    There are so many things I don’t like about either of the two major contenders. Like a good stew. No one ingredient makes it taste good. I would never take a bite our of a raw onion. But in a stew, they are a necessary ingredient. You pick a candidate that you think is going influence the system in a positive general direction.

    I am curious. What policy of Barrack Hussein Obama (I think here it is appropriate to use his full name) that you feel is disaffecting to Muslims?

  10. 10 Lloyd in North Carolina USA
    May 7, 2008 at 14:56

    In the United States, the super delegates of the Democratic Party are not comfortable with Hilary Clinton. They cannot remember the last time they had a national candidate who does not grovel or quit.
    The media pundits do not consider this either.
    The Party meekly accepted the Florida vote in the 2000 election, and the Ohio vote in the 2004 election. In the houses of Congress, they cowered before George W. Bush for years.
    Hilary is a persistent candidate, which shakes the Party’s self image.

  11. 11 steve
    May 7, 2008 at 15:04

    The only th ing that would make Hillary quit is money. She’s loaning her campaign money right now. Obama has plenty of money. She simply feels entitled to be President so I think she will only go out kicking and screaming like a 7 year old girl throwing a tantrum becuase mommy didn’t give her what she wanted.

  12. 12 Des Currie
    May 7, 2008 at 15:10

    I hope so. I decidedly do hope so.

  13. May 7, 2008 at 15:10

    I am voting Libertarian since they are the only people who could help restore sanity to America.

  14. 14 John in Salem
    May 7, 2008 at 15:39

    Hilary has two major problems that I doubt she can overcome.
    1. Barack gets people excited and he not only has the youth vote, he is bringing them out in historic numbers.
    2. Experience = history = baggage = Bill. She would be fought on everything she tried to do and we have simply had enough of gridlock in Washington.

    It’s too soon to drop out but I don’t think she can win.

  15. May 7, 2008 at 15:40

    Mathematically speaking, it’s been over for Hillary for a long time, but the media continues to manufacture Sturm und Drang, pretending she’s still “in” when it’s not possible for her to get the delegate count without asking the superdelegates to go against the popular vote. (The media does that, you see, to keep you returning to their websites and clicking on their sponsors’ ads. Clever, eh?) Her supporters have been ignoring the fact that Obama won 11 states in a row. After that, there was no recovery.

    Also, as a few commentators have stated, Clinton underestimated her opponent. If she can’t properly evaluate an opponent standing right next to her, how can we trust her to properly evaluate a threat from afar? Her supporters really need to evaluate that statement. I want a female president as badly as the next feminist, but the wrong president period is going to be disastrous (and already has been).

  16. 16 rawpoliticsjamaicastyle
    May 7, 2008 at 15:42

    Hi WHYS!

    I had the most eye-opening discussion with an otherwise balanced colleague and friend last night leading into the end of counting for the Primaries in North Carolina and Indiana. According to her, Hilary has faced stiffer opposition because she is a woman and has been under greater pressure to drop out of the race and that of all the candidates Barack Obama is the most “out-of-touch”.

    I was stunned by her assessments, however, because she is normally so anti-feminist and decidely against invoking gender in politics, which is not to say these things do not matter. Still, I am now inclined to think that it is silly season, politically. People seem to have forgotten over a year ago most people were convinced that Hilary was the presumptive Democratic nominee and that she was basically a shoo in for the Presidency.

    The campaign style Sneator Clinton has adopted while under pressure from the vastly less experienced and, according to her campaign, “not electable” Senator Obama has brought out other qualities in her. Among them, a sort of “win-at-all-cost” attitude which has uglified her campaign and, ultimately, her public image. That she has been more successful at slinging mud than Senator Obama, who is no less guilty, is a clear statement about her guts and determination, though.

    However, I wonder whether Hilary is not a little out of her depth insofar as what would be required to come up with the nomination in terms of the rest of the contests and the significance of that for the DNC’s chances in November? What explains the long string of defeats as well as the fact that Senator Obama performed so well last night, especially coming on the heels of the Pastor Wright scandal? These are important questions to be addressed by her regarding whether she should drop out, as it would seem to me that there are elements of her campaign that are not connecting with the electorate. Only she can determine the extent to which this is a problem. However, there can be no doubt that her campaign is in trouble, at this time!

  17. 17 Jens
    May 7, 2008 at 15:49

    hillary will carry on to the bitter end in the hope of destroying Obama’s chances so that she has a second chance in 4 years. this shows a level of selfishness that beggers believe. who cares about the country when it can all be about me me me…..

  18. 18 Brett
    May 7, 2008 at 16:07

    hillary will carry on to the bitter end in the hope of destroying Obama’s chances so that she has a second chance in 4 years.

    I really hope she never comes back and tries this again. After her conduct in this race, I will NEVER vote for her. Furthermore, I will encourage everyone I ever talk to who is thinking to vote for her to think twice.
    I’m sure in 4 years, many people and media will forget all of her selfish turns and tactics in this race and be able to spin her into another ‘electable candidate’. I’ll sure remember it all, and I’ll push to make sure others don’t forget.

  19. 19 steve
    May 7, 2008 at 16:10

    I’m curious, are Americans still “racist”? 90% of black democrats vote for Obama, and around 40% of whites are voting for Obama at least. Indiana doesn’t have many blacks, yet Hillary only had 51% of the vote. If Americans were racist, don’t you think she would have won by a lot more, especially in a state that doesn’t have a high percentage of blacks like NC does?

  20. 20 VictorK
    May 7, 2008 at 16:13

    It looks like it.

    I’m amazed, though. She has experience; Obama has no substance at all behind his rhetoric. His involvement with Pastor Wright should have derailed his campaign but hasn’t. Far from representing ‘change’ Obama is a Sixties throwback and stands for every misguided, spendthrift, ‘Great Society’ programme that began in that era only to fail later. He only has one good policy – withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan, But Hillary support those too so that doesn’t explain why he’s doing so well. Obama is a triumph of packaging, false labeling and advertising.

    The Democrats are looking a lot like the British Labour Party in the early 1980s, when it rejected an electable heavyweight to lead it (Denis Healy), and opted instead for an eloquent but unelectable ultra-leftist (Michael Foot). Labour was predictably massacred by Margaret Thatcher at the general election.

    John McCain may not be half the man that Mrs Thatcher was but I think the Republicans are really going to do a number on Barack Obama come November.

    Hillary’s only hope now rests on the improbable: video of Obama making Wright-style statements surfacing, or some especially scandalous revelation about his private life.

  21. 21 steve
    May 7, 2008 at 16:13

    The funny thing is that neither HIllary or Obama would be able to defeat Mccain, but if they ran as Pres-VP, they would surely win, but their egos are so large, they both crave power so much that they would never agree, so they would rather let Mccain win than be VP. Funny stuff. We’re gonna have two fighter pilot presidents in a row!

  22. 22 rawpoliticsjamaicastyle
    May 7, 2008 at 16:21


    I am afraid to say that I do agree with you in terms of the “carrying on” part. I am not sure what good is to be served by that, though, especially considering that she has been running from behind for so long now. It would seem to me that the extent to which she continues to bring up the rear and sees that as an opportunity to lead the party to a victory make very little sense to me. How can you be at the back at such a crucial moment and still feel that you are the more likely of the candidates to be the nominee and, possibly, the President? That seems very weird to me.

    I wonder whether Mrs. Clinton’s motives are not to do as you have said? That would be really sad if the plan is to “win-at-all-costs”, for example; the claim that her supporters are somehow considered to be racists if they vote for her rather than Senator Obama! What nonsense! This is very sad and does not augur well either for her or the DNC! This is especially the case with President Bush’s popularity being as low as it is currently. This should be the time for the Democrats to firm up their base, rally the troops and hit the ground running behind one candidate – Senator Obama!

  23. 23 Will Rhodes
    May 7, 2008 at 16:24

    I don’t know how many of you saw her speech last night – but to me is was a bye-bye speech as in getting people ready for her to drop out of the race.

    I think she will go for a deal to drop out if she gets the VP.

  24. 24 thelegendali
    May 7, 2008 at 16:26

    I am one person who have argue all along that H. Clinton will be nominated to the candidacy of the democrat paty, but it seems that the Americans are saying something else and that is change and maybe that change will be OBAMA. However the race is still on.

  25. 25 Brett
    May 7, 2008 at 16:31

    The funny thing is that neither HIllary or Obama would be able to defeat Mccain, but if they ran as Pres-VP, they would surely win, but their egos are so large, they both crave power so much that they would never agree, so they would rather let Mccain win than be VP. Funny stuff. We’re gonna have two fighter pilot presidents in a row!

    I could see Hillary in her arrogant and dillusional state, offering Obama a VP slot even though he already has the race clinched; Like she is doing him a favor and acting like she is extending an offer to him that he shouldn’t refuse. Haha. If I could just watch that happen, it would seal the deal for me, I could die laughing at her and her ego.

    She needs to be begging Obama to be his running mate. Yes Hillary, suck it up and come crawling back after all the mud-slinging, all the trash talk, all the arrogance and ignorant statements, all the talk about yourself and how wonderful you are, after all of that… Come back and appologize and join forces. Heck, then you could even flex that ‘experience’ you claim to have! But flex it as VP 😉

    Brett ~ Richmond, Va.

  26. 26 Jens
    May 7, 2008 at 16:40

    the win for hillary in indiana is not a 2% win as she so happily claims its more like a 0.6% win.


    i am convinced obama can defeat mccain, since not many americans want to stay in iraq for the next 100 years……

  27. 27 Jens
    May 7, 2008 at 16:47


    well this is my fear. she has twisted the truth so often, that i can simply not trust her. i don’t realy care about the sniper-fire story, but i am seriously concerned about her lies about nafta etc. i can not understand that the so-called blue-collar workers are supporting her more than Obama. they have lost their jobs partially due to the clintons, plus the gas-tax-vacation is just a gimmick. i seriously hope that the american population is able to see through such nonsens and ha learned from the last 8 years, where cooperate america has been running and ruining the country. do not get me wrong i am not against cooperations, but i am for governace of cooperations, rather than cooperations governing me…..

  28. 28 rawpoliticsjamaicastyle
    May 7, 2008 at 16:55

    VictorK, I am dismayed by your analysis. On what premise is it useful to argue that there is no substance behind Senator Obama’s rhetoric? I ask because I am not sure what you mean by “substance” here. Is that the same as arguing about “experience”? If so, that too is a largely over-rated argument made by the Clinton Campaign, as it speaks nothing to whether she herself also has the Presidential experiences for which she berates Obama.

    As for the surfacing of some scandalous video of Obama making “Wright-like statements”, what does that mean? Is this where the politics has come to? Political sabotage/ character asssasination and intrigue? This is really sad if a potentially good candidate’s abilities are to be assessed in terms of what may happen, especially something as negative as this. This reminds me of the picture of Senator Obama in the Somalian outfit, a few weeks ago, that the Clinton campaign finally denied posting on the net after it had been in the public domain for what felt like forever.

    The notion that “blackness”, such as it is, is somehow a premise on which to disqualify someone for a job,in this case Senator Obama as the DNC nominee and possibly for the job of President, is hardly a noble strategy of campaigning. I say that not so much because I think the Clintons had anything to do with the photo, however, the power of public perception is real.

    The Clinton campaign has been in the business of trumping the remarks of Senator Obama as purely rhetoric bolstered by the claims about “lack of experience” and his “unelectability”. Yet , by her own admission, Mrs. Clinton has “misspoke” and has made, apparently, very grave errors of judgement concerning voting for the War in Iraq. The explanation? She is “only human”. It would seem to me that Senator Obama is not, based on that particular characterisation of humanity.

    Indeed, the importance of Christian values and principles are to be questioned in a country which publicly prides itself on being ‘very Christian’. How very ironic! One set of expectations for Hilary and another for Obama! Is this not a double standard in terms of Senator Clinton’s expectations of Obama in relation to herself? Here, I am referring to some of her comments about “leaving the Church” had she been in his position. The good thing is that she was not and, therefore, would not have to demonstrate real human compassion and the strengths of her convictions like her position on the gas issue, recently.

    Thank God, we do not have to see her as a real human being just an “electable candidate” with “substance” – whatever that means!

  29. May 7, 2008 at 17:01

    VictorK –

    Having “experience” such as she has in Washington is like having experience robbing banks. (yes i like this analogy for more reasons then one.) Experience in Washington did not encourage her to read the entire Intelligence report before voting to give a blank check to President Bush. Experience didn’t help her stop the prescription drug Bill. Many times she sites her “experience” and it highlights only that she made the wrong decision or wasn’t even involved in the process. The war vote, NAFTA, Irish peace talks, or anything. Name one thing she has done that Monica Lewinski hasn’t down, let alone Barack Obama?

    Another Analogy s this. You have to take a cruise around the Artic. Do you want Joseph Hazelwood the captain of the Exxon Valdez, or Daniel Pannoha, a guy who is fresh out of the military and graduated top of his class in nautical navigation school. You could say that Dan has no experience in captaining a cruise ship. Alls he has done is drive Naval ships.

    As far as pastors go. If we are going to count friends as liabilities, then Hilary had no place to run in the first place. First there is white water. The prosecutor will tell you that Hillary is not in prison because he believes she was innocent, but because he couldn’t get enough evidence. Look up Stephan Smith (pardoned), Jim McDougal, Chris Wade, Robert Palmer (not the singer), and Charles Mathews off the top of my head. Many of these guys were prosecuted and convicted of fraud and bribery connecter to the Whitewater case and were pardoned. Finally look up Norman Hsu. Yet another investment Scheme, yet another friend, supporter, and donor to the Clinton campaign. He‘s in jail now finally I believe. Although you can never tell with these snakes.

    If ripping off people is the kind of “experience” you are looking for, then Hillary is your man. She has had plenty of that. That is what she means by “baggage”. It is funny. Most political analyst will tell you the most important thing is name recognition. With all of her “experience” she is still not winning with the number one asset in her favor.

  30. 30 steve
    May 7, 2008 at 17:07

    If Obama is the nominee, so much dirt on him will be revealed, the swiftboating Kerry got will seem like a celebrity Roast. There’s SO much potential dirt on Obama. His cocaine usage, his background, his associates, etc. I think that will get conservative dems to vote for Mccain. the “reagan democrat” types.

  31. 31 Lee Rademacher, Crown Point, Indiana
    May 7, 2008 at 17:09

    Indiana had the chance to really affect this election – a chance we have not had in many years. In my own county of Lake, unprecedented numbers of voters turned out to make a positive difference in this election. Indeed, it was the one county that would turn the primary over for either Clinton or Obama.

    As an Obama supporter, I am not happy that Clinton won. But her narrow margin shows her overall lack of appeal to voters. With only a 17,000 vote lead, Clinton does not become a winner, but a hanger-on. In a very conservative state, it is a testament to Obama that he come come as close as he did in this primary. Clearly, democrats want a candidate who can provide hope. Obama is that candidate.

  32. 32 rawpoliticsjamaicastyle
    May 7, 2008 at 17:20

    Ditto, Brett! Though, I am doubtful if she would be willing to eat as much humble pie and run as VP! Plus, she would need to publicly tell us of her reasons, as such a move could truly backfire after this bout of very negative campaigning.

    @ Dwight, I like the bit that she has not done anything Monica Lewinski has not. Very funny! Though a little inappropriate, admittedly.

    @ Jens, right on! Trust is a VERY BIG issue and I would go so far as to say that that is the number one reason why Obama continues to grow in the polls, even without what appears the requisite “experience” that she claims to have so much of.

    Last night was a clear indication about trust (as well as other factors I am sure!). People expect Hilary to do well, especially amongst white, working class voters and, by extension, in certain states. However, what those expectations belie is the fact that Obama can do well amongst this group as well as others within the overall Democratic Party as well as outside of it. Hilary seems to have missed the bus on the overall trust factor when compared to Obama pound for pound.

  33. 33 steve
    May 7, 2008 at 17:25

    @ Lee

    What is “hope”??? Hope for what? Can someone actually explain this to me, or should we pick another meaningless word? I know, say “tea pot” instead of “hope” or “change”.

    Tea pot we can believe in!

    wait, tea pot has a meaning. I’ll have to coin my own meaningless word.

  34. 34 rawpoliticsjamaicastyle
    May 7, 2008 at 17:34


    I thought this was Hilary’s job? Revealing dirt on Obama and telling people how much “experience” he does not have? Her Republican-style campainging, hopefully, will be a very tired set of talking points come Election Day!

    There are smarter people in the American electorate who will be able to make useful choices about who they want to lead them come crunch time…Hopefully! Otherwise, we are all in trouble!

  35. 35 Brett
    May 7, 2008 at 17:47

    His involvement with Pastor Wright should have derailed his campaign but hasn’t.

    Why? No one in America seems to care about McCain and the multiple religious bigots which endorse him and which he has sought endorsements from.

    I’m looking forward to Barack and McCain and for this issue to come up in the battle between them for the White House.

  36. 36 Jonny
    May 7, 2008 at 17:53

    I agree with Maria that Hillary’s path to the nomination has been blocked since Super Tuesday, but the media (hungry for conflict) has been a willing participant in her circus. She’s been running a strong campaign since Pennsylvania, but her momentum has been blunted and she is done (in the most complete sense of the word!). Her plea for more money last night seemed like a ploy to help pay down her campaign’s now massive debt (she has now loaned to herself again). Her hopes of seating Michigan/Florida delegates during the May 31st meeting of the DNC’s bylaws committee is inconsequential.

    Some of the pundits are saying she should stay in until after West Virginia (which she will handily win) to spare nominee Obama the embarrassment.

    I really believe Senator Obama is a politician that comes along once in a lifetime, and I’m happy, as an American, that we’re not blowing it.

  37. 37 Syed Hasan Turab
    May 7, 2008 at 18:03

    Over all US election compain sound like a joke with public because of unavailability of strong public agenda, resolving of diversity issue upto candidacy level is not the answer of public suffering’s.
    Each & every candiadate is united on war & trying to bring sentimental action in this election compain on the other hand ideological front is not ready to surrender either.
    Inspite of having knowledge of common public suffering’s, why both political parties are kind of quite on real public issues or US crises are beyond there controll & reach.
    Under this stuck up or immeture political sitution election’s may please be postponed, unless & untill both political parties understand real public agenda & sufferings. No doubt inflation, recession, real estate, crimes & mobility is building up frustration in common public as no one is trying to understand common public sufferings.
    Just two deaf & dump political parties are not the end of the USA, as the public suffering’s are beyond there reach or they dont want to talk about public.
    Supportive contiminated media behaviour is distructive in long run.
    Please do some thing for USA.

  38. 38 Jens
    May 7, 2008 at 18:06


    what does hillary offer? “i can do it because I am married to a guy who was president?”

    she messed-up on nafta, voted for a war that has achieved nothing, screwed-up on the prescription drug bill…….

    change is a very real word and change is what we as a nation need. change from having cooperations running the country in their and not my/our interest. change from porkparel spending. change from Dc basically being detached from the rest of the country. change so that health care is the privilage of all and not the few. change from big oil pocteting billions of dollars. don’t get me wrong i think oil companies desrve to make a profit, but does it have to be this obscene, while having TAX REBATES???

    i know that this will mean i have to pay more taxes, but do impovrished people not deserve a change of their future or fortunes.

    steve, the ord change means to me a lot more than “tea pot”. a tea pot is good for brewing tea, often ONLY one kind of tea. CHANGE means the chance of a better future, change means that their is hope for millions of people to have a chance at their tiny slice of the american dream.

  39. 39 Jens
    May 7, 2008 at 18:25


    what public suffering are you talking about? yes we have impoverished people, who life at the bottom end of socciety with little hope for change. nevertheless, the general public is NOT suffering. i am not sure what you are talking about???

    under these circumstance elections should CERTAINLY NOT be suspended/postponed. this is a democracy and whatever you think of bush, he is not a despot of a tin pot country. the nice thing about a democracy is that even though somebody is trying to dress-up a pig with make-up, we all have the opportunity to call the pig still a pig.

  40. 40 steve
    May 7, 2008 at 18:31

    @ Jens

    You really think there is a difference between Obama and Clinton? Other than race/gender? They have exactly the same views except the gas tax holiday, and that’s simply Hillary being desperate. There is no difference at all between them. There is no more “change” that Hillary can bring than Obama. If you think there is going to be universal healthcare, you are dreaming. If anything, there will be laws forcing lower income people to buy insurance, and many will refuse to do so, even though it would be subsidized a bit, and would be free for the poorest. You are in support of forcing people to do something they might not want?

    This is capitalism, profits are the goal. If you want to punish the oil companies, don’t buy gasoline for a car. But don’t tax them for being successful. This isn’t the USSR. I would highly recommend everyone in favor of punishing the oil companies tax wise to punish the economically, by not buying gasoline. Go out and walk more. You’ll kill two birds with one stone, hurt the oil companies and help fight the obesity epidemic.

  41. 41 VictorK
    May 7, 2008 at 19:14

    @Raw: what I don’t like about Obama is his lack of detail on policy, his voting record as an ultra-liberal/leftist, his empty but apparently beguiling call for ‘change’, his habitual association with political extremists, and the Messianic cult that surrounds him as if the US were a failed state in need of light and liberation from a Mandela of the Northern Hemisphere.

    These articles by Thomas Sowell reflect my views.



    Obama lacks experience. You may be correct in saying Hillary’s isn’t that more impressive, but Obama’s is certainly the more superficial of the two.

    It’s not Obama’s blackness I object to, it’s his leftism and the likelihood that his arrogance, inexperience and Messianic delusions will lead to poor decisions on the international stage (I still shudder when I recall his statement that ‘We can fix the world’ – George Bush used to think along those lines until reality gave him a smack across the head). What I said about a video or scandal undoing him was not wishful thinking on my part – as little as I care for him – just an observation that Hillary’s position in the race now appears to be so bad that it’s only some such deus ex machina development that can turn things round for her.

    @ Dwight: I’m no Hillary fan. I just think that – Iran aside – she’d be a better candidate than Obama.

    @Brett: the Ku Klux Klan endorsed Ronald Reagan in 1980, but that in itself didn’t make him an extremist (which he wasn’t anyway). Has McCain been on intimate terms with racist clergymen in the way that Obama declared a racist to be a part of him and someone he could no more disown than he could his own grandmother (shortly before disowning him)? I think that that is the critical difference, and it’s compounded by Obama’s track record – noted by Sowell – of searching out hardcore leftists as his mentors and associates.

  42. 42 Janet T
    May 7, 2008 at 19:26

    This race has boiled down to she said/he responded. Obama began his campaign by talking about what mattered to him and telling the American people it was going to be tough go- now it seems he spends his time responding to and explaining Clinton accusations and dirt.
    I would love to see an election not based on dirt- I don’t care about past drug use, and I’m more concerned with McCain’s pastor associations than Obama’s.

    Obama does bring excitment to the table- we saw him at Mac Court at the University of Oregon- it holds over 9000 and was full, with 3000 outside that he stopped to talk to before in came in. Hillary filled a high school gym in South Eugene. My 20 year old son registered to vote so he could vote for him. I think Obama is a change for the better.

  43. 43 steve
    May 7, 2008 at 19:36

    All this “change” talk is no better than when Bush would speak in Slogans back in 2000 and 2004. It’s a slogan, it’s meaningless. There is no difference between Clinton and Obama. It’s just a slogan like “fuzzy math” or “I’m a uniter, not a divider”.

  44. 44 Janet T
    May 7, 2008 at 19:50

    @Steve- I think you need a verb, an action word, rather than a noun- and adverb might work too!

  45. 45 Shirley
    May 7, 2008 at 19:58

    Hello, Dwight
    If this is a sort of re-post, just read the first and ignore this (or better yet, the moderator could accept the first and reject this one).

    The rule affecting my ability as a Shia Muslim to vote is more specific than what you have described. It might be more specific than what I initially described. I am actually able to vote for someone whose policies are not actively pro-Muslim. The kind of person for whom I am not allowed to vote would be a KKK member, neo-Nazi, someone patently prejudiced against Muslims, or someone whose domestic or foreign policies would harm Muslims here in the States or globally, respectively. The Catholic candidate in Iran would not, therefore, be a parallel analogy, though I do hear your complaint on the word “dead.” I am glad that I don’t live in a place where that kind of thing happens, and I hope that it continues to stay that way.

    A very short list of the faults of each of the three candidates would look something like this:
    McCain: 100 more years
    Hillary: “obliterate” them
    Obama: “If…President Musharraf won’t act, we will.” Also, his criticism of Jimmy Carter for meeting with Khaled Mash`al and support for AIPAC.

    I understand what you are saying about a stew. However, I have always felt strongly about where my vote should go, even before I converted to Islam. I have never felt it acceptable to cast a vote for the lesser of two evils. [repeat: I plan to vote for Cynthia, if possible.] I do, however, believe that it is my right, my responsibility, to make my voice heard by our politicians. I’ve done it in the past, and I look forward to doing it again.

  46. 46 Jens
    May 7, 2008 at 20:10


    universal health care is a sore topic. my idea is to have a basic universal health care for all. if you want more or better or faster then you or your employer can top it up. yes it will be a two tier system but let’s face it what we have now is even a worse two tier system.

    so you would not tax any company out there? any groupe, company person etc uses the infrastructure build by the “we-the-people” and as such HAS to pay tax to contribute to society and the upkeep. oil companies have an extra burden in that they are involved in a bussiness that actually thrieves on the destruction of the enviroment. Hell i expect those guys to be tax pretty harshly. they gain money by detsroyng the very place we life in. car constructors need to be tax heavily as well, especially detroits 4, which refuse to build energy efficient engines. the same for the hummer brigade, tax them as much as you want. if we want to get to an energy effiecient society we need to impliment this through money. nothing hurts people more than shelling out for stupid behaviour. the reason why america complains about the gas price is the irony that it is not taxed enough.

  47. 47 Jens
    May 7, 2008 at 20:13

    and yes there is really a differnce betwen hillary and obama.

    one of them annoys me like crazy and she acts like one of them bubble head figures with her persistant bopping of her head. plus she feels she is entitled to it. NO this country was build on merit and not entitlement, otherwise we would have to elevate her to the level of queen hillary.

  48. 48 Syed Hasan Turab
    May 7, 2008 at 20:28

    Dear Jens,
    An example of pig may be understand your hint towards Pharmactical or oil companies, I am quite sure you are not adressing obesity problem, any way your comments may help to both political parties to bring sincearity with common citizens of USA.
    Infact healthy debate may resolve the commitment issue, public election as a routeen role call might cause sever damage to Democracy in USA.

  49. 49 rawpoliticsjamaicastyle
    May 7, 2008 at 20:36

    @ Jens in response to Steve:

    Thanks for your clarification VictorK. Notwithstanding, the great thing about Obama is that the word “change” in terms of what he has actually said gives a real chance for meaningful assessment if and when he gets the job of President. That means, the American people and the world, in a wider context, will be afforded the means by which to examine what he said he would do and what he actually did. As it turns out, that is perhaps one of the best ways of making any such assessments.

    I will agree with you that the Messianic cult, as you call it VictorK, which surrounds him does nothing to really say what his worth is. However, there is something to be said about hope, if even. That means where people see the possibilities of realising “their tiny slice of the American Dream”, according to Jens, they will act accordingly. Often that is the most powerful drug to get action and, ultimately, change insofar as the implications for improving the quality of peoples’ lives. I have no doubt Senator Obama talks a big game, but one has to also accept that such is the nature of politicking – one has to say what people want to hear to get into power. That is the first item of business. If he talks a better game then Hilary is obligated to tell us why her game is better. She has chosen a comparably more negative approach which is a little taxing, in truth.

    Now, it remains to be seen whether Obama’s pronouncements will be translated into real and meaningful action on the ground. From where I sit, I believe in hope and am motivated by people who see that as an important way of engaging people. That has got to count for something. Whether that “something” is exactly what is required under all circumstances, though, is another matter by itself. But, it is a very important place from which to move.

    Please note that I was not attributing the colour issue to you, specifically. Indeed, I was not saying you said because Obama is black he should not be elected! I was responding to the implied biases of the commentary about what it is that most people seem to like about him. Surely, this is more than just the colour of his skin. Compared to Hilary, there are very real trust issues which make it harder for people to believe everything she says, as noted above. Her campaign shows that, however, the ongoing narrative is that she is to be “given a chance” to explain, whereas Obama’s responses, when he attempts to clarify (too much of the times, I think!), is treated with a comparably more hostile attitude.

  50. 50 steve
    May 7, 2008 at 21:07

    @ Jens

    So what are Obama’s qualifications to be President? He’s been a senator for 2 years and served shortly in the IL legislature, and was a lawyer. There are plenty of people with qualifications like that. You’d really vote for him because you find Hillary annoying? Believe me, i don’t want to hear her robotic voice for the next four years. You don’t think Obama has an entitlement mentality either? Why would a first term senator run for president then? HE wants and feels entitled to be the first black president, just like Hillary feels entitled to be the first female President. There’s no difference between the two except Hillary has a more annoying voice.

  51. 51 Jens
    May 7, 2008 at 22:06


    he runs for president not because he feels entitled to be the first black president, but because he truely beliefs that he has a chance at making america a better place. he runs because he has the guts to do so, even as only a 2 year senator. forget about the black/female etc issue. all our blood is red and it is the ability to carry oxygen that makes us alive and not the skin color or gender. yes she has an anyoing voice on top of her most annoying habbit of twisting the truth. to bring change you must have the vision of wanting to do so and more importantly be able to convey your vision, however vague this may be. hillary is about as charismatic as a shoe box or maybe tea pot. i’d rather have somebody run this country who has the ability of getting the masses engadged in politics. this is the only way to overcome the basic enthalpy and actually catalyse change and trust me there needs to be some changing done. i seriously doubt that a robotic bubble head can achieve that. i would actually vote for mccain so that I do not have to listen to ueber-nanny for the next 4 years…..

  52. 52 Jens
    May 7, 2008 at 22:13


    there is a saying regarding dressing up putting make-up on a pig. this means to make an ugly scenario look pretty. what i was driving at is that the situation is ugly right now and that some politicians are trying to dress-up the situation. however, in a democracy “we-the-people” have the right and obligation call the situation by what it is. since a pig that wears make-up is still a pig and not a good looking lady……

    plus elections usually do not weaken the process of democracy, lack of them do so. elections is the only way to keep politicians accountable for their actions, but even that does not work all the times.

  53. 53 Laura in Minneapolis
    May 8, 2008 at 03:40

    I’m desperate for Hilary to call it quits, as I fear the party is simply going to collapse in upon itself if this primary keeps up for much longer. People are tired of hearing about them… soon McCain is going to sound fresh and new (which is hilarious because if voted into the white house, he will set the record for OLDEST president…)

    The democratic party is sort of like my favorite baseball team, my Chicago Cubs. They start out strong, yet always find a way to choke in the end. Yet, just like the cubs- i’ll keep rooting for ’em.

    Hilary, girl i’m just as stubborn as the next, but it’s time to move on. You’ve paved the way for many more women in the future, but right now you are not what this country needs.

    Laura in Minneapolis

  54. 54 David
    May 8, 2008 at 09:50

    Good on you Janet T

    May 7, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    “he runs for president not because he feels entitled to be the first black president, but because he truely beliefs that he has a chance at making america a better place”.

    I pitty Steve!!!!!!!

    I have said many a times in this forum that there is only one chance for America to gain the lost ground and that is voting for Barack Obama. I have said it again that there is nothing like black and white because we are all coloured. If you think you are either back or white, please read the English meaning of these colours. Where do the Asians then fit in?

    What coulour is the blood fron either of any human being on this plane???

    America, your only hope is to vote for Barack Obama.

    As for Hillary, I advise that she just accepts the fact that she can do better as Vice President.

  55. 55 Douglas in Kenya
    May 8, 2008 at 10:48

    I am sick and tired of the whole US presidential election. This is much ado about little or nothing. Neither the black race nor the female sex has ever ruled America.To make matters worse John mckain and Hillary are too old.

  56. 56 ZACK in Kenya
    May 8, 2008 at 11:50

    Hillary is too old this is time for the young generation we need more young people like OBAMA campaigning for presidency.

  57. May 8, 2008 at 14:20


    You can’t look past Iran. So many thing I looked past in 2000. The thing people don’t seem to understand is that the president doesn’t make policies or write bills. The president’s biggest role is to be the world’s most powerful diplomat. A president needs to be able to speaker with intellect, eloquence, appear to be open and honest, know when to be firm and when to bend, and never appear to be “in the dark”. No matter how little sleep they got. The leaders of the nations around the world need to respect you. This is no more true then it is today. Think about what you hear of a president doing on a daily basis. Meeting with the pope, priminister of Russia, England, and people of the like. Saying you will “obliterate” whole countries is how we ended up in the international situation we are in now. Everybody and their brother are tying to build nuclear weapons. I have a hard time blaming them for arming under the current situation. I would. Even if it is true, you never say it.

    We have got a glimpse of what bills she might pass along if it hits her desk with the “gas tax holiday”. If one had a basic understanding of economic they would see how detrimental that would be. She doesn’t. That is scary.

    I would love to know what qualities make her a “better candidate”? What has her “experience” yielded so far?

    @ Raw, it is a bit racy, but I keep getting the same answer from everybody that she will bring Bill. That has no merit in logic.

    @ Shirley, there is creed i a lot of alcoholics follow. “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference.” You can’t go into the forest and find a house. You got to cut down a few trees and do a few things that you would rather not to build it.

  58. 58 Tita Lenz
    May 8, 2008 at 16:34

    Hillary time for you to realize that you just need to come out of the race before you spend all the money you have on something you wouldn’t like it results.Just stop and give your support to Barack Obama.

  59. 59 Dennis Young, Jr.
    May 8, 2008 at 20:45

    To the World Have Your Say team:

    I think that Hillary should stay in the race
    until the remaining contests in the United
    States end. And then the start the process
    of exiting the race…….

    Dennis~Madrid, United States of America

  60. 60 Dr. Lee
    May 25, 2008 at 17:05

    Hillary cannot even keep her husband and running team happy or loyal. How can she run a country? A successful manager must show in it in the way she manages her personal family team and political team too. If she cannot manage the small, how is it possible for her to manage the big ones. I believe this concept comes from the bible. I have no confidence in her running the country as a super power. She should try running for county mayor first; perhaps she might have a chance.

  61. 61 selena
    May 25, 2008 at 18:15

    There is one thing that older people know that the young have yet to find out. That is, there are no heroes.

    Barack Obama is just another person who lusts after power.

    @Dr. Lee

    I wouldn’t like to be your wife or husband. Whatever Hillary is, or isn’t, she is not on earth to make another person happy. What kind of strange thinking is that?

    As individual humans, it is enough to look after ourselves ( and any dependent children) let alone be responsible for the happiness of another adult.

    My goodness, I still can’t believe you said that…. it is, after all, 2008! 🙂

    You really don’t believe that you have to be responsible for another person’s happiness or that another person has to be responsible for your happiness, do you?

  62. 62 selena
    May 25, 2008 at 18:16

    @ Dennis

    I agree Hillary should stay until the last vote is counted. Any other way and she would be bowing to pressure and that is not democracy.

  63. May 25, 2008 at 19:04

    Hi Shirley, Akbar here in Tehran
    I think shias are supposed to be more tolerant than Christians or Jews or sunnis, don’t you think. I like the idea of integrating all Muslims and converting Mosques into tea houses. It would be so nice to have tables around the pool in the courtyard. Our Mosques are getting drab. The better mosques in the affluent parts of town have intricate seating arrangements for funerals, and elaborate cooking facilities which can cater for hundreds of visitors over Ashura and Ta’sua and other occasions. Mind you, they do a brisk take away business on the side.
    Whoever is elected in the November US presidentials won’t make much difference to Iran. They come and go. I liked Nixon, though. The panache, the fourish and the style, even if it meant bringing Henry Kissinger to say a few words on traditional European policy, no disrespect, of course. .

  64. 64 Dr. Lee
    May 26, 2008 at 18:35

    We humans should be here to try to make each other happy. This is the meaning of doing service for others. Dont only think of yourself. Individualism: ignoring everybody else and stepping over anyone to get what I want. Sadly, your world cannot be filled only with “Me”. This is not the meaning of life, even in 2008. Maybe this is your outlook in life but professionally, I suggest if Selena can spend even a short time everyday to make somebody else happy, perhaps you will not have struggle to look after yourself and children alone. Community and co-existence involves trying to make each other happy. The very essence of that emanates from the nucleus, that is your immediate family being happy.

    Please dont see the task of making someone else happy as lowly or unworthy of humanity. Try to keep your family (including your husband or partner), as happy as possible; then try also to look out further beyond your immediate family.

    Take part in some disaster relief, visit some old people in nursing homes, perhaps even bring some food to the homeless. This makes them happy. In turn, happiness will come your way. Trust me. Learn these and you will be a much happier person and may one day be in politics and lead your country to happiness too. I wish you and everyone peace and happiness too.

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