‘People will think we are all wild animals’

Good morning from West London…

There are a number of stories that have caught my eye today. Serbia and the attack on the American Embassy in Belgrade, immigration controls, alcohol controls and controlling teenage pregnancy.
First to Kosovo where last night breakaway groups from a mass protest against Kosovo’s declaration of independence broke into the US embassy in Belgrade and set fire to parts of the building.  

I’ve just spoken to Boris who is a Serb living in Belgrade who is very upset about the violence:  He told me: “I’m really angry with those hooligans who bring shame on Serbia. People will think we are all wild animals”.

America have accused the Serbian government of incitement. But were America and other countries right to recognise Kosovo’s independence so quickly?

Meanwhile in Ghana an international programme is being launched in today to try to stop the flow of illegal migrants from Africa to Europe. At the same time the EU is coming up with legislation to make it harder to migrate.

Here in the UK  there are recommendations that spouses of immigrants “should” have to pass an English language test to qualify for immigration.

Is this right? Should you be able to speak the language of the country you want to move to?

We talked about the price of alcohol in yesterday’s programme meeting.  The peg being that the British Medical Association say Supermarkets’ cut-price offers on alcohol are fuelling binge drinking.    What measures would succeed in tackling this problem and who benefits from cheap alcohol?

And finally the teenager..

The most read story on the BBC right now is about the teenage girl in Argentina who has just given birth to her second set of triplets.  This reminded me recent comments made by Fay Weldon who argued that teenage girls should be sterilised … ‘temporarily at least’ Here is her article. 

13 Responses to “‘People will think we are all wild animals’”

  1. 1 Xie_Ming
    February 22, 2008 at 11:40

    So many different questions dealing with the nature of humans-

    Underlying are at least two dimensions:

    (1) The individual, the society that surrounds him, and population of the World. Where is the principal focus of one’s identity to be?

    (2) The individual as a rational being vs. the mass man a part of a manipulated mob.

    Today we are seeing an emphasis on the nationalist tribe, with the very natural human desire for the familiar.

    The civilized, liberal, attitude must be imposed by an elite, for it is not natural to the human animal.

  2. 2 John in Salem
    February 22, 2008 at 12:48

    It was so grossly insensitive for the administration to recognize Kosovo so quickly that I can’t help but wonder who it is they’re trying to pick a fight with and why. I’m not buying any of that bs about spreading democracy – this has all the marks of a tactical decision.

  3. 3 Brett
    February 22, 2008 at 12:59

    “Boys have always wanted to have sex and notch up “scores” on the bedpost.

    The trouble now is that the girls – who once wanted just to be loved by someone, anyone – are under intense peer pressure, don’t want to be outdone or be seen to be ‘square’, and so behave like the boys. ”

    – Wow, yes, because girls don’t act just as sexually charged as men, right? Maybe its something in the water here in the States, but women aren’t exactly innocent and just looking for someone to love them, all the same with the men.

    What a great topic though! Good points on each side, however, what method are they using for contraception? Although I’m not a doctor nor a woman, I don’t know of a single method that does not have side effects (some serious and have been recalled or pulled off the market for such effects) stroke, cancer, etc… This state-imposed mass sterilization should under no circumstances compromise the health (not just reproductive abilities) of the willing or unwilling.

    Personally, I am against sterilizing an unwilling person, regardless of their age.

    And as the article noted, if women have to have it done, men should as well, its only fair, right? Afterall, women are the innocent ones being pressured into sex by the men… Why then should they have to be sterilized?

    Why can’t the government offer free contraception or birth control or something (if they do not already)?

    So many questions, its sure to be a divided debate!

    Brett ~ Richmond, Va.

  4. 4 Brett
    February 22, 2008 at 13:10

    “America have accused the Serbian government of incitement. But were America and other countries right to recognise Kosovo’s independence so quickly?”

    This morning on NPR, there was a commentator who was also very upset with the crowd who set fire the embassy. He referred to them as the same types who go to football games to drink and start fights. Just troublemakers looking for an opportunity to cause destruction.
    He also mentioned that the riot police were overwhelmed and took a few hours to get to the scene of the embassy and take control.

    I was not there so I cannot say, but of course the Serbian government was opposed to the independance of Kosovo. Regardless of what happened next, one can pretty much argue that many countries would note the simple act of public disagreement in the government, as incitement, if that countries citizens acted out.

    And on the alcohol bit, where do the profits from the rise in alcohol go? Hopefully directly towards alcohol-abuse related programs.

    Brett ~ Richmond, Va.

  5. 5 VictorK
    February 22, 2008 at 15:09

    The US and UK have done more than merely recognise Kossovo’s independence: they, together with the EU, have orchestrated the whole thing. Without EU-US funding Kossovo would have collapsed financially, and without the NATO presence it would long ago have been re-incorporated into Serbia. The riots are directed against the representatives of the nations that have, from start ot finish, planned and managed this entire affair.

    And since Kossovo is sovereign Serbian territory (a point that no one has ever disputed), the crime against Serbia in stealing a part of its land is far more significant than the minor hooliganism of the rioters. The US and UK can’t plead any right by which they have mutilated Serbia by seizing and giving away its territory. It is an act of aggression against a country too weak to defend its borders.

    It’s a shameful day when the actions of the British and American governments place them in the same category as China (re Tibet): a powerful bully who gets his way by intimidating and terrorising weak victims into bending to his will. That’s the real story.

  6. 6 steve
    February 22, 2008 at 15:26

    I think temporarily sterilizing women up to the age of about 26 is a good idea, though it should be voluntary of course. You have to face the reality, the women act out of emotion, which means they don’t usually make logical decisions. In fact, they tend to make very poor decisions during their “Attractive years”, picking men that will provide the most drama for them becuase that’s fun, so their lives are like TV shows. Problem is that if you develop baggage, it will hinder you for the rest of your life, and other people you involve yourself in case you actually do one day grow up (many women don’t, and continue to behave like children their entire lives). The PC people won’t admit it, but women are vastly more promiscuous than most men are (simply for the reason it’s easier for them to get sex) in fact, it involves virtually no effort on their part. It’s more of an achievement for a woman to not have sex these days. So until women start making proper decisions, perhaps it’s in their financial interest, and for the state, to not be able to have children until they can act like adults. For those who will say “what about the men?” well, pareto principles apply to these women. A small minority of men are having most of the sex with these irresponsible women, and they are just as blameworthy, however, they are a small % of the men out there. When these women grow up (if) , the men they eventually marry are the men they wouldn’t have given the time of day to 7 years earlier. Those men should keep that in mind when considering she’ll subject you to her baggage from her past decisionmaking.

  7. 7 SJ
    February 22, 2008 at 18:29

    Can we flag blatantly sexist comments?

  8. 8 George USA
    February 23, 2008 at 04:06

    Burning the US Embassy does not make us think Serbs are wild animals.

    But it show the need for Kosovo to be independent.

  9. 9 irv
    February 23, 2008 at 14:37

    “Can we flag blatantly sexist comments?”

    Those comments certainly were unkind – but
    the truth sometimes hurts. Get used to it.

  10. 10 SJ
    February 24, 2008 at 03:24

    Regarding sterilizing teenage womyn:
    I think that’s a bad idea. Interesting points & it’s probably true that some people take advantage of a welfare system, but a systemic violation of people’s bodies shouldn’t be put in place as a reaction. I think there are much better, ethical ways of going about reducing teen pregnancies, like awareness & education, exposure & eradication of sexism, etc. No person, male, female, non-gendered, other-gendered should have any kind of medical procedures they do not agree with. I’m not opposed to willing sterilization, provided free of charge, without any coercion or “reward”.

    And hormonal birth control has risks, especially the 5 yr shots. OBGYNs I’ve met hand out birth control like candy, but I think (some? all?) hormonal methods are meant to simulate pregnancy hormones so one’s body doesn’t release eggs. Talk about a long ‘pregnancy’, eh?

    Finally, about what I mean by sexist comments: I don’t agree with grouping all members of a gender together and applying stereotypes. Just as it’s misleading to take a race and apply stereotypes (one I hear a lot around here – “a black person is more likely to commit a crime than a white person”), it’s misleading to take an entire gender and apply stereotypes. “Womyn act out of emotion”, etc may be true for some womyn, and it may also be true for some non-womyn. But, to say that b/c somebody is a womyn, that they will act out of emotion is false. I think those attitudes are dangerous too – for womyn who may not be taken seriously when their issue is not “just emotional”; for black folks, who are pulled over and threatened disproportionately in my city. I guess if somebody wants to make those comments, I think they should be put in context… i.e. “many of the womyn I know did this and this”. We all know such limited amounts of people, that we miss a lot of exceptions to our own stereotypes.

    About Serbia:
    Could someone tell me why many Serbs are so angry about losing Kosovo? I guess it would be like the U.S. losing California?

    Ok, I hope I didn’t stray too far from the points (after reading the “contributor’s charter”)!

    ~SJ in Portland Oregon

  11. 11 John in Germany
    February 24, 2008 at 09:09

    Hi Iain.
    It is difficult not to be sexist (sometimes), I find it interesting that most of the prominent females that fight for women’s rights ECT, do not seem to be part of a one parent family. Of course women should be allowed all the opportunities that men have, but could we have a tablet that removes the roll instinct as soon as you take it.

    As for unwanted pregnancies, every form of contraception is available today, so why are there so many unwanted pregnancies. Please correct me if i am wrong,. Some girls in England got pregnant so as to get a council house. Being very careful here, but i read that a large amount of wanted pregnancies are found in emigrant families, because of the facilities which are found in the adopted land. Our girls and boys are not all bad, they could do with better examples, and may be it should be made just that bit harder to start a family without marriage.

    When the production of illegal drugs is the main income in some lands, and only half hearted attempts are made to stop the manufacture and distribution, the result is what it is. The attitude to drugs varies alone in Europe so much that drug tourist’s are part of life on the borders. Holland has a relaxed attitude to soft drugs (Coffee Shops) so that on the border you can see cars from all over Germany that certainly do not look like people on holiday. It is up to Law Makers to get their act together, and not to blame Law enforcers for the situation at the moment.

    This is not going to go down well, but National Service for all, in a disciplined environment would do good, not boot camps as that is seen as punishment. An advantage would also be that the employment situation would be better.
    No more on this as it is a controversial theme, that may get over heated.

    Wish you al a good day.
    John in Germanyl

  12. February 24, 2008 at 13:45

    Those,who use the term about human as social animal, all are wrong. Human is human from the start,since his creation.

    There is great and admissble evidence in this regard,all religious books describe man not animal or social animal.this has been created by God unique in nature and best in other all creations.

    In case, you may use term social animal,ok you may.but keep in minde creator have provide him everything based on preferance.

    human can identify everthing by its name no such ability animal have so this difference has made humanbeing best among all.

  13. February 25, 2008 at 18:21

    Under the democratic rule or tradition parliment has soveriegn authority law making institurion as well.
    When we see the previous histiry reach the conclusion that parliment delivered worthseeing decisions and chanhed the face of the history to right side no one dared to stop.

    Here is a example before us,Kosovo parliment proclaimed independence,formaly dismemberment from sebia it must be accepted but as we we have seen elements who are essential part of those playing with innocent human blood appeared with dirty designs they are not humanbeing they are animals wild animales.

    History is witness,Bangladesh was part of pakistan ,its newly elected memebers of parliment decided in favour of sepration pakistan had to accept their decision that time particular element tried to play their part but died their own death.

    who creat tention,
    who play with blood of innocent people,
    who play a crucial role as insurgent,
    who commite a suicide attacke witout any reason and take live of many civilians,
    who put hurdle in the way of justice ,
    who usurp right of people,
    and hatche conspiracy for power is not humanbeing,

    he is animale,i would like to say here he deserve no sympathy we shouldn’t say him animale because to say him animale is insult of animale.

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