25
Jan
08

Who is responsible for Gaza?

Josh and Sioux in Oregon and Alka in London – thanks for signing up. Well, we came in expecting to be talking about one thing and have been clearly told by you to do another, so we will. 

GAZA, NOT THE WORLD ECONOMY
We had been planning to have a discussion about the world economy, as the BBC World Service is taking a close look today at the fall-out from the market fluctuations and we were going to join in. But this is a programme driven by your discussions and what’s happening in Gaza remains the biggest talking point.
Clearly people in Gaza need to be provided for on a number of counts, and what’s as unclear as it’s ever been is who should be doing the providing? We’ll have Israelis, Palestinians, Egyptians and Americans taking part and if you’d like to join in, post on the blog or drop me a line.Who is responsible for Gaza? Hamas, Israel, Egypt or the international community?


91 Responses to “Who is responsible for Gaza?”


  1. 1 Brett
    January 25, 2008 at 13:12

    The situation is that of two children in the back seat of a car on a long road trip. They are too close to eachother and incessantly bugging and annoying eachother. They need to be separated and put into time-out.

    Unfortunately, the solution is not that easy and we can’t “turn this car around”. In the middle are left innocent civilians, starving, and being killed or having their lives decimated by rocket attacks.

    Brett ~ Richmond, Va.

  2. January 25, 2008 at 13:19

    It’s the rigidity of the Mullahs & Church Fathers that is behind all the insanity against innocent people.

  3. 3 rosatkins
    January 25, 2008 at 13:52

    I think the question should be: Who SHOULD be responsible for Gaza, until now, no-one outside of Hamas has given a damn about the people of Gaza and what becomes of them. It is utterly disgraceful. I want to thank you for taking the time to allow people to speak out against this tragedy. There is to be a protest convoy tomorrow, in coordiation between The Israeli Coalition Against the Siege and The Palestinian Coalition. It will leave from Israel and go to the border with Gaza. Amoungst those present from Israel will be Uri Avnery and Jeff Halper. I would like to conclude with a few paragraphs I penned this morning and sent in e-mails to others who care:

    For a couple of days the people of Gaza got to taste the sort of freedom people everywhere else in the world take for granted. Now they are being herded back into their “cattle pen” with “cattle prods.” The Egyptian authorities have to be given a little credit for handling their neighbours with a degree of dignity but in the end, that which takes priority with the Mubarak government, as with all the governments whose loyalty has been bought and paid for by the US on behalf of their Zionist lords and masters, is financial gain.

    Hamas must be applauded, they have shown, once again, that the welfare of their people takes priority and they gave their people a breathing space and though it didn`t last long, it has lifted the spirits of the beautiful people of Gaza which may carry them through even more inhumane hardship and suffering.

    My thoughts and the thoughts of many others are with them and I`m sure that I speak for many when I wish these people all the peace and love they deserve.

    Ingrid B Mørk.

    Norway.

  4. 4 steve
    January 25, 2008 at 13:55

    Ingrid, how is attacking Israel with rockets looking after the welfare of the Palestinian people, knowing that it will only cause the Israelis to retaliate? Are you insane? Are you one of those people that thinks a few lives lost is okay so long as you get to bash Israel? What kind of a monster are you? Better yet Ingrid, why don’t you go to Gaza, become a correspondent, and then we’ll watch the news coverage of you getting kidnapped by some peaceful terrorists that you love so much. Remember Alan Johnston? Everyone and their mother commented on how his reporting was totally biased towards the palestinians, was anti Israel, and he still got kidnapped and held for months.

  5. 5 Alon by phone from Sderot
    January 25, 2008 at 14:34

    The leadership in Gaza should take responsibilty for their own people. They need to stop the terror, stop the rockets. They need to uderstand that if they don’t stop the rockets then maybe we need to fight them like we did in Lebanon or Nablus. Maybe some of our soldiers will die but we will protect ourselves.

    Alon in Sderot

  6. 6 John D. Anthony
    January 25, 2008 at 14:41

    As cold as it may sound I think it’s time for the rest of the world to stop picking at this sore and leave it alone to heal by itself.

    John in Salem

  7. January 25, 2008 at 14:45

    israel is totally responsable for gaza
    it wouldnt be a prison camp but for israel

    but for israel lobby on usa polititions , us would not be putting presure on egypt

    but for israel incursions seeking collective punnishment ,seeking to subdue and humiliate an entires race of indigenant people they would be at work doing as thier human need dictates

    it is beyond debate that israel lobby is responsable ,as to who should be held to account , lets be human first and help people clearly drivenn beyond human endurance

    use our compassion sence not our moral outrage senslessly
    may god be with both parties

  8. 8 BritPatJax
    January 25, 2008 at 15:04

    Too many here in America do not see any problems with how Israel deal with the palestinians and it is never suggested that the radicals were protesting at all about that on 9/11. The word is that the radicals hate our freedom as the excuse to deny any self critisism. Ancient rockets against modern gunships and misslies used to take out people in taxi’s. Israel is just America’s wishes in the Middle East. The World understands this and internet makes it more obvious what happens and we all saw what happenend in Lebanon and do not admire either Israel or America for their tendency to use a sledghammer to crack a nut. It is also very easy to defame Hamas or Hezbollah but we all know that we would be the worst thorns in Israeli sides if we were so treated. Just change the words ‘insurgent’ and call them ‘Free French’ and start thinking as a ‘Free Frenchman’ with an occupational force raping and pillaging and putting a wall around the City of London and telling Brits wher they may go? Americans here do not waste a moment thinking like that and I write like that for my city newspaper all the time. As much as I love my life here I want to be proud and there is little to be proud of since my arrival right after 9/11. There is a lot of false military pride and ‘winning’ is a ‘God’ to most people and they cannot contemplate leaving Iraq without a victory parade. Israeli’s have the same mentality as seen above?

    Patrick on WZAR TV INTERNET
    Times-Union BritPatJax Homepage
    Patrick Lockyer American Chronicle Author

  9. 9 rosatkins
    January 25, 2008 at 15:11

    Dearest Ros : Hi …. How are you doing today my good friend ?! Wish you a very happy trip to Ghana Inshallah ! As for the situation in Gaza : In my opinion the whole international community is responsible for the relief of the horrible suffering of the innocent Gazan civilians…. Gaza does need despairedly urgent food, fuel, and medications supplementations… I just don’t get it…. Is feeding the hungrey or treating the sick considered to be supporting of terrorism ?! The World’s conscience must wake up… Enough silence ! And to the Arab countries I say : Shame on you for letting your brothers in Gaza starve ! With my love ! Your friend forever Lubna in Baghdad !

  10. 10 steve
    January 25, 2008 at 15:14

    Ingrid: I would like you to then speak out against all Americans and Canadians and Australians and British Falklanders, other than native American/Canadian/Aborigines, given that every square inch of those countries were stolen from the natives. As an American, it would be hypocritical of my to tell Israelis to do what I’m not willing to do myself. But until you criticize the US/Canada/Australia/NZ, you have no standing to criticize Israel other than you just being an antisemite for singling out the Jews. So let’s hear it. Looking at my history books, at least Jews from from there, whereas someone named “Smith” with blond hair and blue eyes in the US likely has no historical ties to the US. So let’s open this up, and stop singling out the Jews, or as you call them, the US’s “zionist masters”, a la The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

  11. 11 Ingrid B Mørk
    January 25, 2008 at 15:28

    I`d like to reply to Lubna in Baghdad. I`ve read some of your bloggs, you`re becoming quite famous. I think the situation in Iraq and the situation in Gaza are very similar. Iraqis have been put through hell and their country torn apart because the US want to steal their oil and create a US controlled area from which to protect Israel and attack enemies of Israel. I`d like to post a few words here that I wrote a few days ago and to wish Lubna and everyone in Iraq love and peace.
    A few days ago, my family and I, watched Occupation 101. I find it hard to believe that a nation such as Israel is still breaking every International law without being held accountable.
    I am also left with a rather disturbing thought, which refuses to go away, and that is, it was ordinary, decent American citizens like the parents of Rachel and James, who paid for the bulldozer which killed Rachel and the bullet which killed James and the citizens of the US still haven`t figured it out, that their blind acceptance of the Bush administration and their apparent lack of knowledge of the consequences of the votes they`re casting now, will have a devastating impact on the continued anti US resentment which is building worldwide. Every vote for the pro-Zionists (I`d mention a few but there are so many,) will guarantee that this anti-US and anti-Israel anger will continue and escalate and every country in the world is being used to promote the Hegemonic power of Zionist Israel. Doesn`t anyone else find it disturbing, the sinister, all-pervading tentacles which are emanating from the Zionist state.
    It`s Iraqis and Palestinians and possibly the Iranians today, it could be us tomorrow.
    Ingrid B Mørk.
    Norway.

  12. January 25, 2008 at 15:29

    The situation in Gaza is a sign that in politics humanitarian issues are set aside when political interests are of paramount importance. Palestinians have been subjected to collective punishment because of political differences between the Hamas and the Israeli government. But it isn’t an excuse to deprive them of the basic necessities like fuel which is of paramount importance in emergency cases like ambulances and operating rooms in hospitals.

    Concerning the attitude of Egypt which has started to seal off its borders with Gaza, this shows that Arab “brotherhood” is only a slogan eloquently repeated in forums and Arab conferences. It remains a description on paper. On the ground, there are political matters that come first. Egypt is also ready to see the Palestinians plunged in their own troubles in their own territories rather than on its own. The risk for the Egyptian government is that when the Gazans will overstay their welcome in Egypt and become a political force, directly influencing the ordinary Egyptians who will lead demonstrations in their support, demonstrations that can go out of hand. Perhaps Egypt doesn’t want to have Palestinian camps similar to those in Lebanon. In other words Egypt doesn’t want an Israeli raid on its soil should militants from these supposed camps enter Gaza from Egypt to attack Israel and then return to their camps.

    Also it isn’t in the interest of Hams that the majority of Palestinians flock into Egypt and stay there. This will be advantageous to Israel, which will find it easy to surround Hamas forces and politicians. At least these look stronger when surrounded by huge crowds carrying Hamas green flags in a show that looks more a parade with speeches full of woes and hopes for a better day.

    If there is a commitment by Egypt to strop arms getting into Gaza from its territories, the humanitarian crisis in Gaza can end overnight. Rich Gulf states can provide these territories with sufficient amount of fuel and food while the logistic task should be carried by the Egyptians.

    The USA is unlikely to put any pressure on Israel at these times fro the race to the presidency. The international community is used to the frequent strident measures by the Israelis towards the Palestinians either in the form of massive killings as it was in Sabra and Shatilla in Lebanon or in Jennin or in the summer of 1996. Isreal seems to be a winner as Fatah ( Hamas’s rival) didn’t break off ties with it. The Israelis have a lot of ground to manoeuvre while Hamas and its supporters around the world have a lot of words to condemn the Israeli actions.

    There can be different ways to put and end to the humanitarian crisis although the political stalemate is certain to last for years. Starving a whole population isn’t an effective weapon to eradicate radicals among the Palestinians. They are used to hardship of all sorts. But adding the ordinary people to pay for political differences between two irreconcilable side is an act unacceptable to those with political sense.

    As the situation in this region is very complicated, solving it remains problematic. Ironically, what is taking place in Gaza doesn’t stir anyone to take responsibility but to find excuses to shake off all responsibilities!

  13. January 25, 2008 at 15:32

    If by “responsible” you are asking, “who caused this mess?”, then you could cite multiple ingredients in that stew. An overview of what I have come to understand goes something like this. In the early 1900’s a Jewish movement started to migrate. As hard as it is to believe the main contribution to the Israeli / Palestinian problem was Arab tolerance. (I know to even hear those two words together in a sentence will send many of the readers into a broken logic loop.) However, and the area we known as Israel was once 99% Muslim Arab populated. Over the course different waves of Jews migrated into the area. When everybody else in the world were persecuting and killing the Jewish people, they were accepted into Palestine until around the mid 1930’s. at that point Jews had inundated the Palestinian community to a point where they made up 1/3 of the population. (Boy this sound eerily familiar to those of us who worry about illegal immigration in the US.) The situation leads to a revolt by the Arab community. The focus of their aggression was targeted towards the British granting it’s Jewish community permission to settle and buy land in an area that the Arabs had claimed as their own for 15 centuries or so.

    It seems that around the mid 1900’s the British were in the Middle East screwing all kinds of things up that we now have to deal with today. They were responsible for smashing the Sunnis, Shia, and Kurds together (even though they had been mortal enemies for centuries) and forcing them to be called Iraq in 1926. So really the British rulers of that ear are “responsible”.

    But that happened; nothing can be done to change the past. I am very happy about what the British, Spanish, and French did to the Native American in the 1400’s and after. It wasn’t right, really I feel for you, but while the “law of God” rules minds, the “law of nature” rules reality.

    That said, if you mean, “Who should take care of the problem?”, then the answer has to be let Palestine and Israel take care of their own problems. I am not so naïve as to think that it is as easy as just letting them two alone. The west can’t just back off. We have propped them up and armed them with nuclear weapons. If we took all of our toys from them and told them to fight it out man to man, then surely the surrounding Muslim and Arab communities would come to the aid of Palestine. Places like Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia. In a fair fight, Israel would be “removed from the map” inside of 1 year max. Palestine has way more friends in the area then Israel.

    Really the politics are caught in a “catch 22” where the West has no choice but to be responsible. The west can’t just walk away because it will set the Middle East alight. However, staying there causes prolonged agony and keeps the Western presence there a necessary yet unwelcome and seemingly repressive. This upsets many Arab Muslims to the point that they target us with their frustration.

    So all current parties are “responsible” for doing exactly what they are doing. This includes the US and Brittan as well as Iran and Humas. If anybody has any ideas that will solve this conundrum plans are seriously being sought by a certain organization in Washington. Please send the plans to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Washington DC.

  14. 14 viola anderson
    January 25, 2008 at 15:32

    Too many of the people who have opinions about Gaza, Palestine, and Israel are not old enough to have followed middle east events in the news nor have they bothered to read up on the history of the region and how and why Israel was founded. Attention spans must stretch beyond the currently trendy fashion of blaming Israel and Jews for every bomb that gets thrown at them.

    Viola
    Canada

  15. 15 John D. Anthony
    January 25, 2008 at 15:49

    Please forgive my previous outburst ~ I’m just so disgusted at how far this has been allowed to progress.
    I would only make two points.

    Point #1. Israel is 60 years old and has existed this long largely because of American aid. It’s time to push it out of the nest. If it hasn’t learned to fly by now then it wasn’t meant to be.

    Point #2. The U.S. is responsible for providing the humanitarian relief needed in Gaza.
    The reason? See Point #1

    John in Salem

  16. 16 Rob Briggs
    January 25, 2008 at 15:51

    I can’t help thinking that if the Palestinians stopped lobbing rockets at other people life would get better. In that respect I think Hamas is responsible for them because they won’t stop the attacks. Believe me, I am no fan of Israel and I wish the US would drastically curtail support for them, but I can’t fault them for putting pressure on the Palestinians to quit their offensive. I am sure there would be short term benefits for the Gaza people.

    Long term, the Palestinians are responsible for their own fate.

  17. January 25, 2008 at 16:18

    We all are. How ineffectual we all are when it comes to stopping anything inhumane, distasteful or just rampant megalomania and greed that is prevalent in many democratically elected administrations.
    So many people gasp in dismay at the actions going on,not only in Gaza but in many other places on the world, and that dear listener is about the extent of the involvement.
    The bullies in the playground rule. They are allowed to, by us.

    Malc

    Berlin

  18. 18 Dolapo Aina
    January 25, 2008 at 16:48

    Gaza solution lies in the Middle East. Succinctly put between the Israelis and the Palestines. What is happening now is all about egos that’s all.
    Dialogue is the only solution. But it is better these series of dialogues hold now in this generation than for it not to because once the old generation fades away without resolving the issues of land etc. the younger generation who have been told many stories would practically find it impossible to resolve the issues plaguing them.
    Dolapo Aina,
    Lagos, Nigeria

  19. 19 John D. Anthony
    January 25, 2008 at 17:21

    Viola ~
    Israel is only 3 years older than I am. I know it’s history and the history of the region, and I know that every time a workable solution is presented that requires concessions to be made the answer is always, “Why should we?”
    These people either want peace or they don’t. It’s that simple. If they have some divine right to the land then maybe that includes a divine obligation to share it.
    I think we owe it to everyone to provide as much humanitarian aid as we can to people who need it, but any further political aid has to be tied to a serious effort to work out the problems.

    John in Salem

  20. January 25, 2008 at 17:21

    Good for Hamas! It has shown that Israeil is not as powerful as it thinks.

    There will be no peace until Israel gets out of the West Bank — totally. No more settlements.

    I live in Portland, Oregon.

  21. 21 gary
    January 25, 2008 at 17:30

    Hello All,
    Who should be responsible for the humanitarian and economic needs of the people of Gaza? That’s simple: the nations that created the state of Israel and Israel itself. Since these have clearly failed to discharge their responsibility, any and all nations with any sense of human decency need to step in. Presumably, this would be a task with which the UN could help. But; in it’s typically inefficacious manner, the UN seems to have equipped itself best to enthusiastically kill people, rather than to forcibly save their lives.
    With applogies to D. G. Farragut: “Damn the rockets, full speed ahead – to save the people of Gaza.”
    later,
    g

  22. 22 mohamed
    January 25, 2008 at 17:33

    the european colonial powers that killed their jews and decided to attone for it by giving jews continuous problems until they accept christ

  23. 23 VictorK
    January 25, 2008 at 17:42

    The Palestinian Authority (PA) is responsible for what happens in Gaza, including organising any relief that’s needed or bringing to an end the conditions that have made relief necessary. .

    The question only arises because the PA has shown itself to be thoroughly incompetent as an administrator. But the question might itself be re-phrased in more candid terms: who should rescue the Palestinians from themselves? To which the answer is nobody. Not Israel, which hasn’t the slightest obligation to assist enemies commited to wiping it from the face of the map. Not the ‘international community’ (translation: the countries of the West, the only part of the world where compassion matters and charity is real): Islam has been at war with the West since 9/11: the duty of compassion does not extend to enemies who would, if it were in their power, destroy us (have people forgotten how the Palestinians attacked Western embassies and burnt US and British flags not too long ago?). Not the UN , which has learned from Iraq that it’s a losing proposition to help people who have more important priorities (such as Jihad) than helping themselves: any UN ,mission to Gaza is likely to be the target of bombers and gunmen, just as a UN office in the PA was – prudence will probably cause the UN to take a backseat on this occasion, or to engage in only a token mission to Palestine – quite understandably.

    The only players with any kind of interest (or at least one assumes) in saving the Palestinians from themselves are the Arab and muslim countries of the world. Here, at last, is an opportunity for them to do something more solid than raise a clamour about Israel. Yet what do we see? All of the Palestinians’ Arab neighbours – Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon have reason to fear them. They caused chaos in Lebanon for years after being admitted as refugess; the Jordanians have had serious problems with them in the past too; and Egypt understands perfectly that Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood are natural allies bound by a dual creed of ‘Islamism’ and terror: it has no interest in allowing the border with Gaza to become porous to any significan extent since the traffic in arms that Israel fears can just as easily operate from Gaza into Egypt. Those who best know the Palestinians neither like nor trust them, while the rest of the wider muslim world has no tradition of or disposition to international humanitarian aid (which is more or less exclusive to the Western cultural tradition – as international responses to the plight of muslims in Darfur reminds us).

    Those with the means to help the Palestinians (Israel and the West) have no moral obligation to do so; those with a moral obligation to assist them (the Arab and muslim countries of the world) regard them with either suspicion or indifference; while the UN is in a quandary since it knows from experience that the Palestinians are likely to shoot at, suicide-bomb, kidnap and ransom members of any UN mission.

    In the end the Palestinians need to take responsibility for themselves and end the crisis that their own thoughtless and utterly pointless acts of terror has brought about.

  24. 24 Alberto Aberasturi
    January 25, 2008 at 17:44

    Probably the best solution would be that the international community arranged an airlift to supply all the palestinian people who are shut in Gaza, similar to the airlift of Berlin during the cold war.

  25. January 25, 2008 at 18:01

    In my opinion I can blame the US Senate & Congress for the existing problems in the Middle-East. Israel has violated many resolutions to include return of land but unfortunately the US continues to veto such process. The US always talks about democracy and it makes me cringe to think Hamas was elected with over whelming amount of votes and yet, are not recognized by the US who inturn influences some of the western countries to give support to Israel. I remember when Hillary was in Israel for a photo opt she praised the Israelis for the erection of the wall and how nice it looked. Then at AIPAC conference, once again Hillary praised the Israelis and promised her full support, and now she wants to be President. Remember, since 1948 the US in annual grant form gives Israel $1400.00 for each man woman and child living in Israel and this includes the Arab-Israelis. Unfortunately Arab-Israelis do not get one red cent.
    Bush will not see a two state solution until such time as Hamas is recognized and that Abbas speaks with Hamas leaders before continuing agreements with PM Olmert.
    The Palestinian’s life is worse than a dog – at least someone will throw out a bone to the dog so he doesn’t starve. When one watches foreign TV stations as I, and see how the media on major US channels – there is a huge difference. Anything positive about the Palestinians will not be published or promoted in the US the same as the negative of Israel. Israel complains about the rocket attacks but don’t mention about the helicopters firing missiles into the homes of innocent people in Gaza.
    It’s time the entire leaders of the international communities get involved and insure freedom to the Palestinian people and to insure they also have control of land, sea and air. They are housed in a huge prison and it’s time to let the “Dogs out.”

  26. January 25, 2008 at 18:06

    I don’t understand the question. Shouldn’t the people of Gaza be responsible for themselves? Shouldn’t they form their own government and live by their own terms? I believe if Gaza is it’s own independent country such as France and Germany, the question of responsibility should be irrelevent.

    Daniel
    KALW

  27. 27 Wesley
    January 25, 2008 at 18:07

    Why can’t the people of Gaza help themselves? If, in fact, the latest episode of cutting off fuel and energy to Gaza on the part of the Israelis was a result of continued rocket attacks originating from Gaza then the people of Gaza have no one to blame but themselves. Put the pressure on those conducting the attacks, make them stop and you keep your energy supplies. If you want to keep this from happening, find a way to become self sufficient. I know that it is easier said than done but it is not impossible. I would not be averse to the U.S. or other countries helping but I would want to see the Gazans helping themselves as well.

  28. 28 Daniel Kusema
    January 25, 2008 at 18:14

    These r all consequences of the choice made by the palestinians to allow extremists into government.Hamas and the militants are to blame.Israel is only on the defensive.Stop the rocket attacks for the good of the vulnerable.

    kampala,Uganda

  29. 29 julie in Cleveland Ohio USA
    January 25, 2008 at 18:29

    Something I have always wondered about is how Egypt and Jordan made peace with Israel while essentially abandoning the people and territories they governed from 1948 to 1967. It suggests that they were only to eager to be rid of the Palestinian problem themselves.

    Is there anyway to engage Egypt and Jordan as midwives to a Palestinian state. I know this is beyond the scope of today’s show, but I believe it is a question worth asking.

  30. 30 Sherman
    January 25, 2008 at 18:31

    We need to stop focusing on the government bodies and start trying to help the people in Gaza whom have no food, shelter and water, yet alone they can’t protect themselves by the Israeli army. The poor Palestians have suffered enough in Gaza by Israel who always trys to selfishly act that they are the victims. Enough is enough!

  31. January 25, 2008 at 18:32

    Every nation has border security. Does a nation have a duty recognize a political group that has its cornerstone policy its extermination? I think not.
    If the majority of Palestinians elect poor governmnt then other nations have a responsibility to respond in an ethical manner that protects its citizens. A nation that intentionally places its citizens in danger is an irresponsible nation. Israel has consistently been on the side of reasonable ethics while the Palestinians have consistently insisted that international law and ethics only selectively apply to it.

    danvers

  32. 32 Nathaniel
    January 25, 2008 at 18:33

    I think it time for the world to see that a Hamas-led government will inflict pain on the Palestinian people. This is a very sensitive issue that needs urgent attention; it is
    worthwhile for Israel todevise another means rather than impose measures that are affecting the Palestinian population.
    Egypt and its Arab neighbors should help the Palestinian people rather by putting pressure on Hamas to stop launching rockets to Israel.
    Nathaniel Egwu
    Cape town , South Africa

  33. January 25, 2008 at 18:38

    Who is responsible for the mess in Gaza? The list is long.

    The blame starts with the UN. The UN mandated the creation of Israel in 1948 then walked away, without ensuring the safety of the Jewish settlers. Of course, this seems to mark the beginning of the UN policy of failure that has been consistent since their inception in 1945. Are their any successes from the UN? Bosnia, Ethiopia, Israel, Rwanda, Iraq, Cambodia?

    The numerous Islamic countries which invaded Israel to wipe them off the map are where the most blame should lie though. They made a bad decision by invading Israel, and the Palestinians paid the price for playing along. Thus, the spoils of war go to the victor. The determination to eliminate Jews by the Muslims has imbedded such hatred that there is going to be several generations unless someone from both sides decides to work at getting along.

    As for the horrendous situation of the Palestinians that are stuck in the middle, Yaser Arafat, the terrorist Nobel Prize Winner and corrupt ruler and Hamas are largely to blame. Arafat used all the government money to fund his and his wife’s life rather than invest in the country. Hamas, as a terrorist group loses relevance as an organization if there is peace, so it is in their interest to promote the continued violence.

    Thank You,

    Jon

  34. 34 Raouf
    January 25, 2008 at 18:38

    as an Egyptian _ I am ashamed of way the government handled this crises we should have provided the Palestinians with there basic needs – Egypt has sacrificed a lot for this just cause and to see it now surrender its free will to Israel is shameful – we should help

  35. January 25, 2008 at 18:38

    As usual, the BBC distorts a Gaza story by throwing in the usual Israel-bashing cast of characters and not getting any comment at all from anyone else.
    Any pretense of objective journalism died long ago.

    Steve G
    New York City

  36. January 25, 2008 at 18:39

    the current issue is the offshoot of the larger issue which is unresolved for years which have lead to this situation .yet again the world bodies and the perpetrators israel and palestines are yet again asking the question whether who is responsible for the current problem the so called rocket attack or the embargo on supply of fuels and food across palestine?rather than nurturing the tree trunk to save it the stakeholders in israel,palestine and worldbodies are trying to bolster the branches of the tree trunk.its time israel has to talk palestine issue on the land they have transgressed in 1966 and after also the palestines must assure its extremist path in solving the issue .and the un must see to it how they can effectively be a mediator in this conflict resolution and the veto power misuse of america for israel aggression.
    anyother method will not be a permanent solution regarding israel-palestine problem .it will be like putting band-aid to cancer wounds rather than treating from its roots?
    or else see in this grave situation when security counsil wants to pass a resolution against israel america vetoed it the other day .
    this instance plus the transgression of iraq and afghanizthan sovereignity bypassing united nations charter article 2(4)blatantly till date shows that united nation has indeed become an obslete body that cant keep pace with 21st century needs and shockingly weakness apart dancing to the tunes of america and other rich nations?gaza like will be the order of the world if every who is who concerned with policymaking of international law come together to come up with everlasting solution for peace in this world or else the lesser regional players like hamas,israel,fatah,egypt cant solve this grave problem concerning the international world for 60years?

    devadas.v
    jyothinivas
    talap
    kannur
    kerala
    india

  37. 37 Neal Cassidy
    January 25, 2008 at 18:40

    The mass breakout of Gazans seeking the means of survival illustrates how desperate their situation has become. Hamas is wrong to launch indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israel, but Israel’s blockade of the entire civilian population is wrong. It is never justified to punish a civilian population for the acts of a small minority living among them. The Gazans elected Hamas to represent them because Fateh had become corrupt and feeble, but the population cannot force them to stop their attacks. It would be better for Israel to open a back-channel dialogue with Hamas and establish a truce, which might lead to negotiations.

    Oakland, CA USA

  38. 38 Mark
    January 25, 2008 at 18:40

    The Palestinians are responsible for their own fate. They democratically elected a government whose only platform was to wage a war of annihilation against Israel. Now they are losing that war and suffering the consequences. That they didn’t have a prayer of winning didn’t deter them. They have laughably proposed a ten year cease fire so that they can reorganize themselves in hopes that at the end of that time, they will be in a better position to more successfully wage that war. Were the situation reversed, what would those in Islamic countries say about opening borders and sending relief to Israelis who would be starving in the dark and helpless? I never hear much mention of the genocide in Darfur and condemnation of the Sudanese government from Islamic apologists for attacks against Israel and complaints that Israel’s actions are inhuman violations of international law. What kind of law is it when it is applied selectively? No kind of real law at all, just a sham trotted out when it is convenient to make a political point and put back in a dark safe place when it is inconvenient. The Palestinians will get peace when they really want peace on an equitable basis and not before. As things stand, their hatred for Israel resulting from the endless litany of lies told by the demagogues they call leaders is more compelling for them than their love of their own lives or even their children’s lives. Therefore I find it impossible to feel sympathy for their plight. Will they ever come to their senses before it is too late and a real humanitarian crisis brings death to them on a mass scale? Prospects don’t look good for that from where I see it.

  39. 39 Michael Sheridan
    January 25, 2008 at 18:41

    I feel that Israel and Gaza need to have a sitdown and try and sort this situation out without this foolish blockade that will in the future further hurt the two relations.

  40. January 25, 2008 at 18:41

    I realize this is an issue primarily in the States, but the election of our next president will have world-wide ramifications. In the Florida debates last night, Republican candidate Ron Paul was treated as an after thought, as usual, by the MSNBC network. Our media and the corporations that contribute advertising revenue to their coffers, have an unfair ability to shape the nature of the primary races, as well as the general election. I am an independent voter who leans democrat, but I am inspired by Dr. Paul’s amazing performance in the debates, his internet grass roots campaign, as much as I am disgusted with the way he is being ignored by the mainstream media (who would no doubt take a financial hit in a spending-reduced, no tax Paul presidency.)

    I’d like to hear about how others around the world view our presidential candidates, and if they agree with me that the best candidates never seem to be able to secure the nomination, because they are never given a chance by the mainstream media.

    Ryan

    USA

  41. January 25, 2008 at 18:46

    What about the OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES????? I find it appalling that Egypt doesn’t simply annex Gaza, and that Jordan doesn’t simply annex the West Bank. What is the problem with the Arabs??? Why wont they help their brothers other than with hatred, extremism, and the call to war????

    David Kesler
    A r c h i t e c t
    Berkeley, California

  42. January 25, 2008 at 18:46

    Israelis are very arrogant. They should cede land that doesn’t belong to them to the Palestinians. Why do Israelis kill Palestinians on daily basis? Don’t tell me Palestinians fire Kassams to Israel on daily basis. Palestinians are under occupation, and they have every right to demand Israelis leave their land. I wonder how Americans or Britons would feel if part of their territory is occupied by foreigners. Would they greet the occupiers with flowers?

    James
    Seattle

  43. January 25, 2008 at 18:47

    David in the US is absolutely right 100%.

    Let the Egypt border stay open! Let Jordan open the West Bank and leave Israel out!

  44. January 25, 2008 at 18:47

    Ideally, Hamas would be responsible for Gaza, because it is the party that was voted into power by the Palestinians. However, the world has effectively removed power from Hamas in most parts of the West Bank and continues a very physical assault on Hamas in Gaza. The decision by the global community to undermine the voice of democracy in Palestine and to attempt to remove Hamas from power is a grand-mal violation of UN Security Council 242 (sovereign integrity of Palestine) by all involved. Therefore, it is we, the gobal community, who are now responsible for the welfare of Palestine.

    I still maintain that we need to use international law in order to accomplish security in the Middle East. After all, it was the violation of international law by Israel that led to the current crisis in Gaza. Israel continues a daily assault on Palestine – both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Once this rogue state is reigned in, it should be entirely possible for peacekeeping forces to be employed in the Middle East so that security can be established and the foundations of a viable government be laid for Palestine. Once a viable government is in place in Palestine with the ability to control all aspects of the maintainance of a sovereign state, we should see much more control in the region.

    If we continue the path of supprt for Israeli violence – whether actively or by our silence, there will only be eternal violence in the Holy Lands of the Middle East.

    Shirley Wilson
    Chicago, Illinois USA

  45. January 25, 2008 at 18:48

    The answer couldn’t be any clearer. If Hamas stops firing rockets at Israel, the blockade will end. Why is there even any question about what is obvious? Is firing rockets at Israel helping the Palestinian cause at all? Not to anyone with two working brain cells.

    Steve
    USA

  46. 46 Joey
    January 25, 2008 at 18:48

    Do Gazans think of themselves as belonging to Africa? It seems that they are culturally north african to my limited view.
    Thank you and have a good day

    Joey
    Colorado, USA

  47. January 25, 2008 at 18:49

    Sami in Gaza is correct. You cannot divorce the current situation in Gaza from the West Bank, or from the historical wrong done to the Palestinians. Israel’s continuing occupation and annexation of Palestinian lands is an illegal provocation, and there will never be peace without a just settlement.

  48. 48 Robert
    January 25, 2008 at 18:50

    How can Israel trust Hammas when after they were elected they immediately said they were not bound by the treaties the PLO agreed to. Internationally governments are bound by previous treaties. If this is Hammas’ position, then what long term agreements can be made with them.

    It is the Hammas positions that are responsible for the current situation in Gaza.

    –Robert
    San Diego

  49. 49 steve
    January 25, 2008 at 19:18

    Joey: Though Gaza used to be part of Egypt, the part of Egypt it was connected to was on the Sinai Peninsula, which is located in Asia, not Africa. Egypt is one of the few nations that is located on two continents.

  50. 50 steve
    January 25, 2008 at 19:19

    Neal, if the “arab brothers” didn’t Attack Israel in 1948, and occupy Gaza and the WB, there would be a 60 year old Palestinian state today. But if it’s easier for you to blame Israel, go ahead. You will still be just as wrong though.

  51. 51 Xie_Ming
    January 25, 2008 at 19:24

    Israel is responsible for Gaza.

    It ducked its responsibilities as the occupying power and the sought to starve them out. The “rockets” are just the latest in a long, long string of pretexts to drive all gentiles out.

    It is unfortunate that the shrill dishonesty of the Zionists can intimidate the media from discussing the facts.

  52. January 25, 2008 at 19:29

    Under international law, an occupying country has the responsibility to provide for the security and welfare of the occupied population.
    There is no question, it has been settled long ago where the responsibility lies.

    Michael Kemper

    San Francisco, CA

  53. January 25, 2008 at 19:29

    The problems in Gaza can only be solved by those that are brave enough to leave religion out of the equation. By eliminating Zionist, Islamist and even Christian factors from the politics of Gaza, logic will begin to prevail and peace will soon follow.

    Ken in Cleveland

  54. January 25, 2008 at 19:30

    All the Leadership of Paleastine (Israeli, Hamas and Fatah) are responsible for the impossible situation in Gaza today. Gazans live like penned cattle and are treated as hostages to Israel’s security and the political ambitions of Hamas and Fatah.

    The Big 5 at the UN are responsible for not declaring the 1967 boarder a UN Protectorate, get the security situation right and organise elections. What could be simpler?

  55. January 25, 2008 at 19:30

    The onlysoloution is throgh atheism. Once both sides give up on ancient myths, the problem will evaporate. For example, there has never been an atheist suicide bomber.

  56. January 25, 2008 at 19:31

    Wesley from McMinnville Oregon here:

    Why can’t the people of Gaza help themselves? If, in fact, the latest episode of cutting off fuel and energy to Gaza on the part of the Israelis was a result of continued rocket attacks originating from Gaza then the people of Gaza have no one to blame but themselves. Put the pressure on those conducting the attacks, make them stop and you keep your energy supplies. If you want to keep this from happening, find a way to become self sufficient. I know that it is easier said than done but it is not impossible. I would not be averse to the U.S. or other countries helping but I would want to see the Gazans helping themselves as well.

    Cheers and thanks for another great show

  57. January 25, 2008 at 19:31

    It is very easy to claim that rocketfire is intolerable and must stop, but it is entirely unfair to compare the actions of Israel, an autonomous gov’t with a multi-billion dollar economy and a state of the art military with Gaza and the Palestinians in general, an oppressed people, under occupation with a gov’t in strife, divided and quite frankly inept. The rocketfire is not right, but neither is holding innocent people hostage for the actions of few. Homes in Gaza and the West Bank are demolished, Palestinians are held like prisoners in their own towns and penned in by an Apartheid wall, but no one seems to cry out about the injustice of those actions. A UN commission must be formed with representation from the US, UK, Eqypt and Jordan in addition to Israel and Palestinian gov’ts to truly deal with the conflict fairly.

    Ahmed in California


    “History doesn’t repeat itself,
    but it does rhyme.”
    – Mark Twain

  58. January 25, 2008 at 19:32

    With Israel calling for Egypt to take control of Gaza, over 40 years after the 6 Day War, the question must be asked: “why didn’t they pull back after the 6 Day War?”. Israels occupation of these territories has been the principle factor in the decades of violence and growing extremism that has kept the Middle East a major international hot spot since the end of the 67 war. If peace ever comes to the region, it will be after an Israeli withdrawal (which could have been accomplished in the year following the war) making the past bloody decades a horrible political miscalculation on the part of Israel and their primary supporter the US. These two nations bear the responsibility and owe the world a strong apology at the very least. I for one am deeply ashamed of my countries foreign policy since World War Two, particularly with the Middle East.

    Mason – Park City UT, USA

  59. January 25, 2008 at 19:35

    There’s no greater act of collective punishment than randomly firing missiles at the homes of innocent Israeli civilians. Indeed, where is the concern for the “humanitarian crisis” among Israelis, such as the residents of Sderot, who have had to live under the threat of rocket fire for the last six years? Temporary power outages in Gaza cannot compare to the deadly, indiscriminate threat from missiles landing on schools and homes. If U.N. and European officials uniformly blamed Hamas instead of amplifying its propaganda, it might be forced to cease its aggression, ending the real humanitarian crisis.

    Bob Horenstein
    Community Relations Director
    Jewish Federation of Greater Portland
    Portland, OR

  60. 60 steve
    January 25, 2008 at 19:52

    Bart, while I agree with your intent, there have been athiest suicide bombers. The Vietnamese would use them against the French and the Americans, but they only attacked military targets, but they were still suicide bombers.

  61. 61 steve
    January 25, 2008 at 19:54

    Mason, Israel didn’t pull back after the 6 day war because the Arabs had a conference in Khartoum, with the famous “3 nos”. No peace, no recognition, no negotiations with Israel. Why give back territory in a war you won which you didn’t start? Would have been the first time in history. Israel held onto the territories (including Sinai) until Egypt changed its mind, and made peace with ISrael, but Egypt didn’t want Gaza back. I’ll pose a question for you, had The 1967 war never taken place, would there even be talks of a Palestinian state? Would Egypt have granted gaza independence? Jordan with the West Bank? Lots of people ignore the fact that Egypt and Jordan occupied the territories and never gave the palestinians independence. Why?

  62. 62 Waleed
    January 25, 2008 at 20:49

    I hope one day that Gaza would be part of a legitimate country called palestaine. This has been the aim of the palastenians to live in a country of their own like everybody else but unfortunatley the reality is Gaza is a little strip of land that is controlled and opperessed by Isreal and extermist Palastenians.. Until such times comes when Isreal wants to live in peace among it’s neighbours then you can put the balme fully on the palestenians!

  63. 63 Joey
    January 25, 2008 at 21:18

    Hi Steve,
    Suffice it to say your definition is geographically based, however my idea is that of the cultural influences over that broad region.
    It seems to me that this headache on the Sinai peninsula as you rightly point out, directly affects it’s neighbors in Northern Africa, if not all of Africa by direct connection.
    It’s just an idea, but eventually a strong voice will need to come from the African region, and if that voice is North African/Moslem Egyptian or whatever, my god, why wouldn’t the Gazans want to benefit from that if they are culturally related.
    In fact, most people in the US relate Gaza and Palestine, geographically and politically, to the Middle East as a region. Obviously I’ve not visited this area, but that seems a little bit too centered for a definition.
    Thank you.

    Joey
    Colorado, USA

  64. 64 Thomas Murray
    January 25, 2008 at 21:40

    “Who’s responsible for Gaza?” is the wrong question.

    Better one should ask: “How might we relieve their suffering?”

    Hamas shoots some pathetically ill-aimed home-brewed missiles over the wall, and Israel hammers down with F-16s. Like swatting flies with a sledgehammer.

    Hey! I’m on Israel’s side, too. But enough is enough!

    Egypt should step up and allow trade relations with Gaza across their common border. It will obviously relieve some of the deprivations the Palestinians must be enduring. And it’s better to have a controlled port of entry rather than an uncontrolled one, or none at all.

    Else, Gaza is nothing but another concentration camp, only without the gas chambers.

    All sides make me ashamed to be a human being. Pathetic…!

    –Louisville, Kentucky, USA.

  65. 65 Bryan in San Francisco
    January 25, 2008 at 21:48

    This is getting tedious. Has anyone ever been to Brooklyn? Brooklyn is a small (well, not that small) patch of land where Jews and Arabs get along grand. Why can’t they do the same in Israel & Palestine? Sheesh.

  66. 66 Mark
    January 25, 2008 at 21:50

    The Moslems have it completely backwards. The Israelis are the descendants of people who lived on the land for thousands of years long before Mohammed was born long before Islam existed. They were the ones dispossessed of their land and scattered. It was only right to establish the modern state of Israel and return them to their rightful land after the most infamous genocide in human history, the second world war. There was never any talk of a Palestinian People before the Israelis captured the West Bank of the Jordan River, Gaza, and Jerusalem in the third of four Arab wars to wipe them out waged in 1967. The so called Palestinians are just Arabs who happened to live in that area. This is why there is no single geographical entity which would constitute a contiguous Palestinian State. That Israelis built settlements on this captured land was the result of realization that the original borders of Israel were so indefensible being only 8 miles wide at one point that they represented an irresistible target for endless attacks by Arab governments constantly plotting how to destroy Israel entirely. It is therefore necessary for Israel to keep all of the settlements it has built and populated. Besides, the prospect of relocating close to half a million Israelis off that land now has no practical possibility and American taxpayers certainly aren’t going to pay for it. It is also a fact that the Jew’s holiest spot, the “Wailing Wall” which is all that remains of the original temple is now open to them and all of Jerusalem is open to people of every religion while it was off limits to Jews when it was under Arab control. Therefore Jerusalem should and must remain the eternal capital city of Israel. Even though there is therefore no historical basis for a Palestinian State, the Israelis have agreed that one could be created if it were likely to be a peaceful entity which no longer presented a threat to Israelis. The United States government has always fully supported this position and there is no reason to assume it will change. Europe’s governments and populations can continue their rants in their seemingly endless process of anti-Jewish sentiment but it will not change the facts one iota. Israel will continue to exist for the indefinite future and those who would destroy it whether by small rockets fired from Gaza or more powerful weapons originating from a greater distance face destruction themselves. That’s just how it is.

  67. 67 Jon
    January 25, 2008 at 22:15

    Anyone who honestly believes that Israel is the only reason the Palistinians are suffering need only look at Egypt’s recent actions to have their perspective challenged. Arab nations in the region use Israel to deflect attention from their own contempt for and neglect of the Palistinians. There are a thousand ways arab nations could productively contribute to the stabilization and well being of Palistinians in Gaza that do not include supplying the populace with arms. Unfortunately, the Arab response toward the Palestinian’s struggles indicates that their hatred for Israel is much stronger than their affinity for Palestinians.

  68. 68 Emile Barre
    January 25, 2008 at 22:17

    Israel. With a little help from her friends.

  69. 69 Brett
    January 26, 2008 at 02:55

    “John D. Anthony January 25, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Please forgive my previous outburst ~ I’m just so disgusted at how far this has been allowed to progress.
    I would only make two points.

    Point #1. Israel is 60 years old and has existed this long largely because of American aid. It’s time to push it out of the nest. If it hasn’t learned to fly by now then it wasn’t meant to be. ”

    I was just discussing this exact point over dinner. Well stated!

    Brett ~ Richmond, Va.

  70. 70 Mohamed, Egypt
    January 26, 2008 at 05:02

    Remember Israel and Hamas’s stances after the latter won the parliamentary election. Hamas stopped all Kassam rockets. Israel cut them off from the rest of the world.
    Hamas government tried to provide for their people with whatever they had. Israel collaborated with Abbas’s corrupt government to wipe Hamas out.
    Hamas announced its willingness to negotiate with the Israelis. Israel wanted all the concessions before they sat for talks.
    Now we are talking about Kassam rockets launched by Hamas.
    It is arrogant power through which Israel talks, but will this blockade and other desperate measures taken by Israel solve the problem? Will this make it safe?
    If Israel doesn’t come to terms with the two-state solution, it simply reinforces the idea that peace is impossible between Muslims and Jews. Isn’t it time for the Israelis to live and let live? Or they only remember the persecution of the Nazis as a means to rally for the world support and sympathy, while they practice much worse atrocities against the Palestinians.

  71. 71 Miche Norman
    January 26, 2008 at 07:14

    This is quite incredible. Hammas is responsible for the Gaza strip – one of the terrorists killed last week was the son of a senior minister killed firing rockets at Sderot. In the past weeks Hammas have fired rockets at the very power station that supplies their electricity and have knocked out the power supply in Sderot and now complain that their own supply has been cut by 15%.
    We refuse to send them fuel because that is fed into rockets which are fired at our children – and the Gulf states which have boycotted Israel for 60 years complain- The absurdity of the headline “Arabs suffering from Israeli Oil boycott” beggars belief.
    For Israel to have quiet on its southern border what does it need to do – reroute the water pipes to gaza through the streets of Sderot so that Hammas would be wary of hitting their water supply – firing artillery fire indescriminately at Gaza – even that would not work because Hammas puts no value on life – it seems that they are litterally begging for an Israeli invasion.

    For Hammmas to have life return to normal – its very simple stop firing rockets at our children on their way to school

  72. 72 George
    January 26, 2008 at 07:16

    Hamaz and their backers are responsible for the suffering in Gaza.

    They attack Israel daily.

  73. 73 Dave W, Ireland
    January 26, 2008 at 08:35

    Any answer to your query ‘who is responsible for Gaza?’ must be split into two parts.

    The first part as alluded to by Bob Hornstein is an answer to how did we get here?

    Unlike Bob I don’t believe there is any simple answer to this question since any unbiased reading of the history of this region makes any ‘blame game’ deeply problematic and whose version of history you believe depends on your own prejudices. (and as in all things human, to be is to have prejudices)

    Experience over the last 50 years have shown that the practices engaged in by ‘the West’, by Israel, by the Arab world (whatever that is) and by the Palestinians are NOT leading to a peaceful solution.

    But until there is a realisation that violence, squatting and land-grabs are acts of folly then those who profit from violence and rule through fear will never be replaced by consensus.
    The actions of the Hamas rocketeers, like the actions of the Israeli military and the Israeli ‘settlers’ merely confirm a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    For an idea of what i mean read any of the articles by URI AVENRY.
    for example: http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/49183
    Or follow this site: http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp

    However there is a real humanitarian crisis in Gaza and only the Israelis have the power to end it.

    Gaza is to all intents and purposes a prison. To starve prisoners because of the actions of a few is immoral.

    The population probably didn’t support Hamas before but since the actions of the IDS moderates will not be listened to so all the Israelis are doing is recruiting for Hamas, then punishing the population which then recruits for Hamas etc.

    Who should feed and supply Gaza? Ideally the Palestinians but since Isreal won’t allow them to be self-supporting then it will fall to anyone who abhors genocide and cruelty.

    The lesson that both sides need accept is the lesson Ireland learned in the North. Both sides have legitimate grievances, fears and demands. AND both sides must be heard in an unbiased and even-handed fashion without preconditions.

    Unless and until that happens we’ll see more rockets. more illegal settlements, more dead Palestinians and more violence and suffering.

  74. 74 Neil McGowan
    January 26, 2008 at 08:59

    Who’s responsibe for the Gaza Crisis?

    Absolutely simple – Israel.

    What possible “discussion” can there be? It’s Israel who have caused it.

  75. 75 Miche Norman
    January 26, 2008 at 09:36

    Re Michael Kemper

    I agree whole heartedly that the occupying power is resonsible. by occupying I think that we can all agree that this means the last power that took Gaza by force. Which leads us back to Hammas. Stopping firing rockets at school children is a pretty small request from a civilized people. Faced with a country that is the first one in history to unilateraly withdraw from a territory captured in a defense war and to ethnically clense that territory of its own people, whose diaspora even bought greenhouses to help your economy, which declared that if everything was peaceful it would lead to massive withdrawals from Israel’s ancestral homeland maybe the sensible thing to do would be to explore the possibility of statehood which was being handed to you on a plate.

    What Hammas has done has been to convince the overwhelming majority of Israelis that withdrawal from the west bank will turn Tel-Aviv and the coastal plain into a shooting range and thus have seriously dmaaged the chances of Palestinian statehood. The massive support they get from the majority of the population of Gaza only strengthens this feeling.

    We too wish that you would just go away, jsut the same as you wish that we would. Perhaps you too can have the intelligence to realise that that is not going to happen – that if you decide to build a state in peace with us – no Israeli government would ever be able to deny your statehood.

    The disengagement came about not because we are scared of you, but because we beleive that it is wrong to rule over another people – we do not want to rule over you, we just want to live beside you in peace. And until you can internalize that, and value your own lives more than you want to end ours, you are condemning yourselves to what you have.

    The reason that Israel does not let you work in Israel is not out of malice – it is a direct result of your nasty habit of wrapping yoursleves in a mixture of rat poison nails and TNT and exploding in our marketplaces and malls.

    You have very much made your own beds – and have bene lying in them for months. Perhaps its time to remake them

  76. 76 Alec Paterson
    January 26, 2008 at 10:08

    The Arab Governments, PA and Hamas, are responsible for the Gaza situation. They are all unwilling to accept the reality of a Jewish state of Israel within their 22 Muslim/Arab states. The Palestinians have been offered a state on numerous occasions, but tit would seem they are more interested in eliminating Israel than having a state.at peace with it’s neighbour. They use Israel as a scapegoat for the ills of the Arab world

  77. January 26, 2008 at 15:44

    the tussle between Israil and gaza has a historical perspective and needs to be commented upon dispassionately . There is no question about israils indifference and hostility towards gaza, or say the palestine . going back to the question raised by the cultural critic Edward Said who did reflect a sreious concern for the struggling humanity and the excesses imposed by the imperial or imperial supported powers on the palestinians in the celebrated essay The Question of Palestine . The essay infuriated the political powers of the day and was rebuked for supporting the cause of the palestinian struggle . Edward Said himself was a jew but he sided with the suppressed and remained committed to his principle , that perhaps also offennended both the jews and the christian alike .
    The point however is that the encroachment on the rights and liberties of the palestine , the very nation holding the rough end of the stick has been tormenting the advocates of the human rights and israil being the aggressor keeps sticking to imperial tendencies . Israils obdurate stance on the restoration of the palestinian land ofcourse usurped is not concerning the prophets of freedom as much as it does about nations that enjoy the protection and patronage from the rulers of the world . Gaza crisis is again a reminder of the israili obsessions with anarchy and misrule.

  78. January 26, 2008 at 18:07

    It is admireable,Egypte has played a remarkable role not only based on brotherhood but also based on humanterian ground by granting permission those dying witout daily essentials.

    People have different views,Many of them are saying that
    every country have right to secure its territory and sovereignity.
    It is right, i am agree with it but not absolutely because no country have authority to create risk for others by making interestfull measures.

    Rocket firing was a reaction of the action taken by Israel but overlooked why?

    Long fence was constructed under the planed project and now blocked the paticular area called Gaza.

    Everyway
    .,coming to inside or going to out side was closed.
    business stoped and commodities of daily use disappeared,what should did the people?
    they brocken the sheild erected.

    It is common that peace conference in Annapolis is going on,It is also common that what president Bush have view regarding the Israeli occupation.As being said agreement is expected within year.

    United States wante to give some relief to Palestin that is untolrable for Israel so American effort is being destroyed delibrately by sabotaging the peace in the region.

  79. 79 George in Georgia, USA
    January 26, 2008 at 19:42

    THE ISSUE OF CONFLICT

    1. Israel has the right to exist.

    2. Hamaz is responsible for it’s actions.

  80. 80 Richard
    January 26, 2008 at 21:44

    There will be no peace until the leadership adopts policies that promote tolerance, partisanship, and cooperation, where all parties have a joint stake and no one is alienated. Unfortunately, civial wars in this region have not produced a sovereign government, instead a splintered regime exists, wherein a separtist mentallity has taken hold and infected each side to the point of intolerance. There is only one outcome along this theme and it is hate, suffering and death. Additionally, peace in this region is possible with the removal of current leadership and implantation of moderates, willing to chair discussions on creating a singular government, governorships, and enact a constitution that embodies stability, law, and civil rights. In reality, a civil war to come must include the entire region and the victor must impose its will across it, completely, and enforce it with a iron fist. Anything less, and this feud will continue for decades.

  81. January 27, 2008 at 15:09

    The question should be “who is responsible for the state Gaza is in”. In which case the answer is clear – both Israel and Hamas are responsible for the awful state Gaza finds itself in with a wrecked economy and little income.

    Israel is responsible because it has continually provoked the palestinians by building sttlements on occupies land. It should have made more substantial steps to give back the occupied land. Its failure to do so has simply stoked the fires of chaos within the palestinian community.

    Hamas is responsible because, true to the history of palestinian politics, they never fail to miss an oppportinity to take the moral high ground and seize the political moment. Hamas, and palestinian politicians historically seem to only want satisfaction through a resolution brought about by violence.

    In truth violence has brought no benefit for either side but until the Isreali and palestinian public start supporting politicians who have real vision then there will be no resolution to this conflict.

  82. 82 Alec Paterson
    January 28, 2008 at 14:51

    Ashrafriafroz,

    Edward Said was not a Jew, both his parents were Palestinian Christians. He was an orientalist, and totally sympathetic to Islam and it’s aims. A Palestinian nation has never existed. Palestine was a mandated territory controlled by the British following the collapse of the Ottoman empire and caliphate. Current day Jordan was part of that territory. The mandated territory had various ethnic groups, Jews, Arabs, Druse, various Christian groupings. So it never has been Arab land. Did not the Arab Palestinians pre 1948 describe themselves as southern Syrians, not Palestinian? You need to check your facts.

  83. January 28, 2008 at 16:00

    thanx for the correction. yes there you are . Edward was a christian and his orientalism published in 1978 is a landmark publication , Alan if you could note please and further he was not very drawn or sympathetic to islam. he was a basically a humanist who kept talking of a humanitarian crisis and even had to face the ire of the imperial masters for advocating a cause they thought Said should abandon . But he never digressed and drew in conflict with the blatantly biased west.

  84. 84 Xie_Ming
    January 28, 2008 at 16:20

    In history, The Canannites occupied Syria, Lebanon and Palestine for a long time and defended it against larger empires north and south.
    The Hebrews gradually came in. Later, the Persians and the Romans mastered the Hebrews.

    The Hebrew tribal myths are filled with hatred for Canannites and others who are not members of the Tribe.

    Claims of tolerance for gentiles within what is claimed as “Greater Israel” are also myths.

    The existence and birthrate of Palestinians are deemed existential threats to the Jewish state and their ethnic cleansing is part of Israeli government policy.

  85. 85 Xie_Ming
    January 28, 2008 at 16:28

    Of course, the Israelis were responsible, as occupiers, for the administration of Gaza. They ducked that responsibility and announced an “independent” enclave, which they immediately began to strangle.

    There is the intention to ethnically cleanse the gentiles and take their land and homes for the illegally expanded Jewish state.

    State terrorism and provocation by the Israelis is carefully orchestrated policy. The home-made rockets are only the latest in a long, long line of pretexts to achieve ethnic cleansing.

  86. 86 Alec Paterson
    January 28, 2008 at 21:43

    Xie Ming,

    You must live on a different planet, and not one that deals in reality, and historical fact. Israel acquired territory following a war instigated by the Arabs in 1967. Sinai has been returned to Egypt. Gaza is not occupied. Continual rocket fire on your civilian population, from a regime, which is aligned to the Muslim Brotherhood, and whose charter requires your demise requires a response.

    Jews were ethnically cleansed from parts of the Arab world (800,000), where they had lived centuries before the arrival of Islam. Can they have their land and property returned? No Jews are allowed to live in Saudi Arabia and Jordan, where Jews resided in the past. On the subject of ethnic cleansing, and subjugation you need to ask the people of Darfur and Tibet

  87. 87 George USA
    January 29, 2008 at 07:43

    Irrational arguments are frustrating.

    But they are Biblical also.

    The people who claim Israel has no right to exist and they themselves are not responsible for their actions was foretold long ago.

    There will be conflict until Messiah comes, as it is written.

  88. January 29, 2008 at 14:38

    israil does have a right to exist but must learn to live in peaceful coalscence . As a nation it has been flourishing at the expense of the larger question palestine. The traditional conflict and the tendency to preside over the destiny of a nation whose right to self determination has been challenged and its political rehabilitation never considered seriously . was israil born even assuming for a moment that arabs are primarily responsible for waging war against a sizeable chunk of jews and consequently it culminated into the emergence of Israil , the festering sore.
    A country whose legitimacy remains to be determined and a country that exists only to torment the freedom of a state seeking not only freedom but also speaking the language of prayer, persuasion and petition and when all three p”s fail they resort to the ideology driven by violence . is not the legitimate and valid frustration of a state continously kept at bay by the people living dwelling on its own usurped land . The violation of human rights , the gross abuse of military power garnered through the support of the big brother and the refusal to acknowledge the existence of Palestine as an individual state. The whole Arab must pledge itself to a commitment that along side israil the issue of palestine is resolved without confrontation. The role of the UNO ia a reminder of the theatre of the absurd and it is a body subsevient to the American interest.

  89. 89 Xie_Ming
    January 29, 2008 at 18:08

    Anyone interested in the Gaza situation needs to get on the mailing list of this website:

    http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1198361773/

    One can understand what is happening from a Jewish point of view!

    “THE ISRAELI strategic aim in Gaza is not to put an end to the Qassams. It would still be the same if not a single Qassam fell on Israel.
    The real aim is to break the Palestinians, which means breaking Hamas.
    The method is simple, even primitive: to tighten the blockade on land, on sea and in the air, until the situation in the Strip becomes absolutely intolerable…”

    The site is run by a famous Israeli journalist and former Knesset member.

    This website is a must for very honest and insightful facts and commentary.

  90. 90 Xie_Ming
    January 29, 2008 at 18:15

    Only in the indoctrinated Zionist mind can some relation be found between what the Israelis do within Israel and the Occupied Territories
    and what is done in other countries and territories.

    The UN and the international community have many times pronounced the Israeli activity to be illegal and condemned it.

    A tribally deranged mind might claim that the UN is a vast conspiracy against Israel, but the facts would not support such a claim.

  91. 91 Dennis in The U.S.A.
    May 21, 2008 at 05:15

    I think Gaza is responsible for itself….

    Dennis-Madrid, U.S.A.


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