03
Jan
08

Kenya’s two sides speak to you and each other

We’re on air now – click here to listen

An honorary mention to Joe from Colorado, who is visiting London and has just dropped some chocolates in. That’s the kind of commitment I’m looking for from Daily Email subscribers. Thanks Joe.

Kenya remains the story today. So many people are emailing and texting the BBC with comments about President Mwai Kibaki and his opponent Raila Odinga that today we are going to let you speak directly to the hierarchy of both their parties.

We’ve confirmed the guests and they are prepared to speak to you and to each to other.

KOIGI WA WAMWERE is Assistant Minister for Information and Communications in President Mwai Kibaki’s government.

WILLIAM RUTO is a top level member of Raila Odinga’s Orange Democratic Party


94 Responses to “Kenya’s two sides speak to you and each other”


  1. 1 devadas.v
    January 3, 2008 at 14:51

    the key question i want to ask is does the ruling front and opposition realise that the clashes in kenya which has escalated into tribal fights is a pointer to the bloodbaths which have occured in ruwanda,sudan etc .and also please put your heads together in not letting this happen as in ruwanda it took 3 months to decide that the genocide happening there comes under united nations charter definitions by the time 8 lakhs were hacked to death .do ruling and opposition wants such a thing to happen or are you true to your countries peoples welfare and security?

    devadas.v
    kannur, kerala, india

  2. 2 Malc Dow
    January 3, 2008 at 14:59

    Just when is Africa going to stop shooting itself in the foot?

  3. January 3, 2008 at 15:06

    I ACTUALLY SUPPORT THE KENYANS WHO ARE FIGHTING TO GETRID OF
    CROOK POLITICIANS.I WISH THEY COULD DO THIS WITHOUT RESORTING TO
    KILLING EACT OTHER.

    KIBAKI HAS RUBBED THEM OFF THEIR RIGHT.

  4. January 3, 2008 at 15:10

    Dear fellow Kenyans,
    Should I believe what I am seeing and hearing? Then I should conclude that there is something wrong with all Africans. Were you not the ones hosting all refugees of the whole region? Then what lesson did you learn? Entering ethnical violence simply because of greedy leaders? Do you want to make another genocide of the century? I don’t just want to hear that. Please! please!
    On another side this should save as a big lesson to all Africans, because democracy has been misinterpreted in Africa, we don’t know it at all! We really need more Raira Odinga to challenge and teach democracy, because continuing allowing these kinds of leaders it is what makes Africa what it is today.

    Arnaud Ntirenganya Emmanuel
    Rwandan in Cameroon

  5. January 3, 2008 at 15:13

    Geoffrey in Kenya
    I don’t understand why the president’s advisors refused to have international mediators to negotiate for peace in kenya. Many families have been displaced and majority of the population still believe that the elections were rigged.

  6. January 3, 2008 at 15:19

    Hi Ros,

    Re Kenya: Living in Singapore, the story feels rather detached from me. I think, ‘it’s just another country with a problem with its elections’. My question, firstly, is to Raila Odinga’s representative on the show. It has been suggested quite a number of times before, both by neutrals and by President Kibaki’s government. If Mr Odinga really believes there’s an issue, why doesn’t he go through the courts?

    Secondly, to President Kibaki’s representative, if everything’s really been fine, why not just let the opposition have their say? Is there a need to restrict what they say, shoot innocent people and stifle the airwaves for this? Is it so damaging? If the opposition isn’t telling the truth surely letting them announce a lie would be more damaging to them, rather than the government.

    Happy New Year!
    ZK
    Singapore

  7. January 3, 2008 at 15:38

    Dearest Ros : Hi…. How are you doing today my good friend?! I have a question to the representative of Raila Odinga’s party : Don’t you agree that Mr.Odinga didn’t do enough to stop the violent actions committed by his supporters?! If Mr.Odinga and his party think that there has been a fraud in the Kenyan elections, then why didn’t Mr.Odinga call for a peaceful generalised strike till the results of the elections are recounted?! With my love !
    Your friend Lubna in Baghdad !

  8. 8 Chernor Jalloh
    January 3, 2008 at 16:00

    It is quite apalling for Mwi Kibaki not to concede defeat.This is miserable for him to see his people being slaughtered like animals.What such of power is he seeking for again? As a man who has got a high education in London,I suppose Mwi Kibaki wouldhave practised what he has learnt in the West(Democracy).This is a wake up call for you and your supporters for a quick resumption of dialoque between the ruling party and the main opposition leader,Raila Odinga. This a disgrace for every African to day and one minute silence should be observed through out the African continent for those innocent victims in Kenya.Mwi Kibaki has committed crimes against humanity and the International community must act now to bring those nefarious to justice.Thus,when people know there is no room for them in politics why are they insisting to plunge the future of their people into the dark old days? The ruling party has modered sleep in the country for holding at gun point the head of Kenya´s electoral commision,Samuel Kivuitu to declare Mwi Kibaki as the winner.The Police and the army donot have the rights to crackdown hard on those peaceful demonstrators supportig the opposition leader Raila Odinga.Where is the so-called African Union standing on this matter that has violent the human rights of the people of Kenya?Those evil acts has so far claimed the lives of 300 innocent people in Kenya and displaced 70,000 men,women and children from their respective homes.Mwi Kibaki stop this Genocide or ethnic cleansing.

  9. 9 John D. Anthony
    January 3, 2008 at 16:02

    I would say to the representative of President Kibaki ~
    If you’re confident that everything about the election was clean then you should have nothing to fear from an internationally monitored recount. So why not do it and settle the dispute once and for all?

    John in Salem

  10. 10 dolapo aina
    January 3, 2008 at 16:32

    To the opposition: Would people have to lose their lives and property before your supporters are spoken to?
    To the leading party: why was the announcement of the result not done in public? How come Kibaki won the presidential election and his party lost the house of parliament? Did the electorate remove his cohorts in the senate and retain him? And if so, do you think that was illogical to remove the servants and not the self serving king? Also, would they like another election or a recount?

    Dolapo Aina,
    Lagos, Nigeria

  11. 11 eric kalunga
    January 3, 2008 at 16:51

    mr kibaki stole the election, clear n simple. Mr kivuitu has, in his own fumbling way, said so and so has the EU chief observer.
    Mr kibaki just needs to step down, his clinging to power is an insult to us all.
    The only way forward is to stop pretending tht we r not sure who won because mr odinga did. let us all unite n ask kibaki to step down
    .

  12. 12 steve
    January 3, 2008 at 17:22

    11 more months of campaigning until the presidential election. 11 months of hearing a group of narcissists pretend they care about people other than themselves. And it’s even more pathetic that people will volunteer and help these self serving narcissists get elected, so they can serve their own personal ambitions. Why are people so stupid?

  13. 13 ARNAUD
    January 3, 2008 at 18:17

    Dear fellow Kenyans,

    Should I believe what I am seeing and hearing? Then I should conclude that there is something wrong with all Africans. Were you not the ones hosting all refugees of the whole region? Then what lesson did you learn? Entering ethnical violence simply because of greedy leaders? Do you want to make another genocide of the century? I don’t just want to hear that. Please! please!

    On another side this should save as a big lesson to all Africans, because democracy has been misinterpreted in Africa, we don’t know it at all! We really need more Raira Odinga to challenge and teach democracy, because continuing allowing these kinds of leaders it is what makes Africa what it is today.

  14. 14 MUSTAPHA C. SESAY
    January 3, 2008 at 18:21

    Sir,
    HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL THE CREW.

    You are informed that the kenyan issue must be resolved to say all Africans in this 21st century.Therefore I suggest the following:-
    People’s power have been demonstrated in Ukraine and other areas in the world (globally).
    Africa have no democracy let alone fear justice, so Kenya must be set as an example to help Africans out of this mkissery.The electorate must have their right respected to allow democracy to take its caurse. A rerun of the elction (Presidential) could be the best bet.
    Thanks

  15. 15 Ezekiel Koech
    January 3, 2008 at 18:22

    BBC

    I m come from Eldoret and I would like to differ with some reporters especially with Mr. Wanyama in Eldoret that there had been pre-medidated ethnic cleansing. If there were rehearsals why didn’t they report this to the police? People are angry because the elections results were stole. You know very well that the EU Chief Observers questioned the credibility of the ECK. Also, Kibaki has not even addressed the nation, rather give orders to police to “shoot to kill” even after banning live media coverage in the country.

    Ezekiel Koech
    USA

  16. 16 Farsue A.B. Donzo
    January 3, 2008 at 18:22

    Hi BBC,
    Please tell Kebakeh to give chance to the winner of the election.
    He is not the winner.
    That beautiful seat does not belong to a corrupt and wicked leader.
    It belongs to a patriotic leader who has the country at heart.
    Please Kebakeh, innocent people are dying.
    Children are also dying.
    From Farsue A.B. Donzo in Monrovia, Liberia

  17. 17 Mr Dennis E Young, Jr.
    January 3, 2008 at 18:23

    KENYA – ARE YOU THERE ?

    i hope Kenya gets thru
    this crisis quickly!!!!!!


    Happy New Year!!!!
    =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
    Mr. Dennis E. Young, Jr.
    Madrid, New York (U.S.A.)

  18. 18 Mr Desiderious Simiyu
    January 3, 2008 at 18:24

    North Uganda was burning but the Ugandan solders were busy harvesting DRC timber & causing chaos. Kenya is burning due to election disagreement yet Mr Museveni is inflaming the situation with congratulation.
    The Ugandan president enjoys chaos & disorder.

    Mr Desiderious Simiyu
    Nairobi Resident.

  19. January 3, 2008 at 18:28

    BBC,
    The senseless deaths of innocent Kenyans is unjustified. Mr Kibaki did not steal this election for the thousands of Kikuyus who are being killed. He is a prisoner of vested class interests and he doesn’t feel the pain that the ordinary Kenyans are going through. Koigi Wamwere is also a victim of class interests and he knows well that this government is not interested in international mediation because it will lose. Could the world simply:
    1. Slap a travel ban on Kibaki and his government officials
    2. Stop aid to Kenya
    3. Expel Kenyan diplomats and
    4. Suspend and/or expel Kenya from the Commonwealth.

  20. 20 Aduh Francis Ngala
    January 3, 2008 at 18:28

    Fellow Kenyans go ahead and claim your electoral rights.We are tired of dictators stealing votes here and there on the African continent.Your action should sound a serious warning to other dictators on the continent

    ADUH Francis NGALA
    Bamenda-Cameroon

  21. 21 Farsue Donzo
    January 3, 2008 at 18:28

    Dear BBC,
    Please tell Kerbakeh to accept the result that he was defeated by
    opponent Odinga.
    Odinga is choice of the Kenyan today not him.
    His corrupt regime has gone.
    Let Kebakeh knows that, only a patriotic leader capable to rule
    that beautiful and peace nation for two terms.
    More than three hundred people have lost their lives and eight thousand
    people have been display because of Kerbakeh power greve and cruel behavious.
    From Farsue Donzo in Monrovia, Liberia

  22. 22 Isaac Kibalama
    January 3, 2008 at 18:29

    Hello BBC,
    Let the world be clear about some issues regarding the Kenya chaos;
    1)Kenya presently has no leadership, because 1)one president is fearful of his mandate which he clearly took over iillegally, 2)the second president has not been sworn in whether legally or by trick.This is a period of political interregnum in Kenya.What does the constitution say?Is it the Chief Justice who takes over temporalily under whom a fresh election is organised(if that one does not also fail)
    2)Kibaki will be too ashamed to accept he was caught with his hand in the box and so will not wish to meet/work with Odinga.Odinga is so mad he will not work with a man who he believes took the main dish away from him.How will a government of national unity then be made up?Who will be the boss of who?Do you see the rapist joining hands with the raped?
    3)What is happening is no longer a Kenyan internal affair, its international because it has crossed borders and that the murder of people cannot be an internal affair of any country.
    4)Both Kibaki and Odinga should note that they are breaking many articles of their own constitution, the former by veiling the expression of the Kenyan people and the latter by pushing his people forward to a rally where he knows there will certainly be no public safety and public order.

    Isaac Kibalama
    KAMPALA UGANDA

  23. 23 Teferi
    January 3, 2008 at 18:29

    Why is the Asian community which controls a great deal of the economy not mentioned? Can peace be achieved when the economic disparity between Asians and the indigenous Kenyans is addressed?

    Teferi

  24. 24 Arnaud
    January 3, 2008 at 18:30

    Dear fellow Kenyans,
    Should I believe what I am seeing and hearing? Then I should conclude that there is something wrong with all Africans. Were you not the ones hosting all refugees of the whole region? Then what lesson did you learn? Entering ethnical violence simply because of greedy leaders? Do you want to make another genocide of the century? I don’t just want to hear that. Please! please!
    On another side this should save as a big lesson to all Africans, because democracy has been misinterpreted in Africa, we don’t know it at all! We really need more Raira Odinga to challenge and teach democracy, because continuing allowing these kinds of leaders it is what makes Africa what it is today.

    Arnaud Ntirenganya Emmanuel
    Rwandan in Cameroon

  25. 25 Chawezi Phiri
    January 3, 2008 at 18:30

    Time and ability plus double capacity has forced my fingures to dance automatically on this benedicted keyboard of my PC. Why! this miraculous thing happened is because WHYS I love KENYANS spontaneously and as I stand horizontal to the wall and perpendicular to the ground I am giving a lot of food for thought for numerous mammoth people being masacred in their own country for their own right – democracy. Iam asking KIBAKI and ODINGA to stop haranguing with the feelings in my heart because I love KENYANS more than a snake loves rat. To me each day since the FAKE elections in KENYA I start by thinking of KENYANS being masacred by their own police officers and ends by dreaming of a peaceful and united KENYA. Each time I see KENYANS being victimised by the KIBAKI POLICE FORCE my metabolism suddenly stops and my peristalysis goes in reverse gear My medular-oblandata also stops functioning.
    Crazy crazy crazy you may say but this is true. If only you knew what is going on in my encephalon you would understand. That’s why I need to see KIBAKI and ODINGA face to face with me, soon. I think I have to pen-off hear because I still haven’t finished studying electrolysis and polymerization. Catch you WHYS- later.
    KENYANS stop the violence, KIBAKI and ODINGA wont be killed by live bullets being fired by THE KIBAKI POLICE FORCE they are in their comfy and cozy homes and drinking hot teas in their couchs.
    BUT I HAVE ONE QUESTION TO ALL AFRICAN LEADERS ACROSS THE CONTINENT – COULD HAVE YOU BEEN LEADERS AND PRESDIENTS TODAY HAD IT BEEN KAMUZU BANDA, KWAME KRUMAH, KENNETH KAUNDA, DANIEL ARAP MOI, DE KLERK, MOBUTU SESEKO ETC HAD IT BEEN THEY RIGGED AND DIDN’T ACCEPT DEFEAT BY THE INCUMBENTS OR PRDECESSORS? GIVE IT A FOOD FOR THOUGHT AFRICAN LEADERS – BE CIVILISED LIKE POST INDEPENDECE LEADERS!
    ITS CHAWEZI PHIRI HERE IN LILONGWE, MALAWI.

  26. 26 Simeon Banda
    January 3, 2008 at 18:31

    What is happening in Kenya, I am visualizing the Rwanda experience slowly coming to engulf Kenya. Our leaders shepherd your flocks and promote peace and not violence. We are tired of blood shed. Do not incite your people who are emotionally charged. Ethnic violence will lower your good image. Calm and reconciliation through dialogue will end the suffering of your people. Kenya advocate peaceful means to resolve your differences.
    Simeon Banda, Kasungu, Malawi.

  27. 27 John in Cleveland
    January 3, 2008 at 18:31

    What is happening in Kenya is not new and has been going on for decades. I attended Salve Regina University in Newport, Rhode Island in the late ’80’s with a young man from the Kukuyu (sp?) tribe. His assasinated uncle was in our textbooks in our Politics of Africa class. This recent uprising seems to me to be just another cycle in their political atmosphere.

    John in Cleveland

  28. 28 Anguzu Best Robert in Arua Uganda
    January 3, 2008 at 18:33

    . Please Mr. Raila, save the blood of the innocent. Listen to the voices of plea to restore peace in kenya.

  29. 29 Peter
    January 3, 2008 at 18:36

    Listening to the Man representing the kibaki Camp, I’m just ashamed of him.

    He is talking about new elections as if they don’t cost money.

    Why not accept defeat and save Kenya this agony?????

    I’m sure very soon, they will be blaming the western influence…..and colonization for the woes of Kenya (Africa)

    Peter

    Lagos.

  30. 30 Eric
    January 3, 2008 at 18:37

    Mr kibaki just needs to step down, his clinging to power is an insult to us all.
    The only way forward is to stop pretending tht we r not sure who won because mr odinga did. let us all unite n ask kibaki to step down eric tanzania

  31. 31 Bethwel
    January 3, 2008 at 18:38

    My names are Jackson Kimaiyo arap Minanyang, a Kenyan student, in Bucharest, Romania.

    It is particularly disheartening that lives of people who have nothing to do with elections have been lost because of politicians sending out insincere message of peace and tranquility with some having failed to put the well-being ahead of everything else.

    The Kenyan problem is not at all with the voters but the whole issue has always been with those at the top, those hungry and greedy for power, and those with the responsibility to decide for the rest of the million of Kenyans.

    It is high time for these leaders to talk to their respective people to avert further bloodshed as they sort out the election problem. Peace is more important than those election related matters. To my MP, Mr. William Ruto, thank you for your yesterday call through the Kass FM on our people to remain calm.

  32. 32 Flatonia Tonny
    January 3, 2008 at 18:38

    From Flatonia Tonny in luwero Uganda

    Mr Kibaki please you should accept the election defeat just like your counterpart in South Africa who was defeated in the ANC party leadership. Let us try to practice free and fair election in Africa other than that selfish will of just clinging into power.

  33. 33 Raage
    January 3, 2008 at 18:39

    Ros,

    I am a transplanted African living in America, and my view is that third world country leaders has been and will always do whatever it takes to hold on to power. From the outside, it looks like Kibaki stole the election.

    God help Africa.


    Raage

  34. 34 Dr Seronei
    January 3, 2008 at 18:40

    BBC,
    The senseless deaths of innocent Kenyans is unjustified. Mr Kibaki did not steal this election for the thousands of Kikuyus who are being killed. He is a prisoner of vested class interests and he doesn’t feel the pain that the ordinary Kenyans are going through. Koigi Wamwere is also a victim of class interests and he knows well that this government is not interested in international mediation because it will lose. Could the world simply:
    1. Slap a travel ban on Kibaki and his government officials
    2. Stop aid to Kenya
    3. Expel Kenyan diplomats and
    4. Suspend and/or expel Kenya from the Commonwealth.

    ——————————————————–
    Dr. Seronei araap Chelulei Cheison, PhD
    Technical University of Munich,
    Freising,
    Germany

  35. 35 Pat Orjianioke
    January 3, 2008 at 18:40

    d situation in kenya is bad 4 2008.well,i’ll be more particular about d latest attacks by ‘politician boys’ cum millitants,in d niger delta.d attacks are sponsored by unpatriotic political moneybags.
    -pat orjianioke,enugu,nigeria.

  36. 36 Anthony Osula
    January 3, 2008 at 18:41

    If the chairman of the ECK has also come out and said that Kibabki did not win then what else are we waiting for?
    Is Kibaki trying to say we have to accept him by force?
    We cannot go to courts controlled by the same government that rigged the elections. We need a total re-election.
    There is no reason for Kibaki to stay in power.


    Anthony Osula

  37. 37 Peter
    January 3, 2008 at 18:41

    Africa does not seem to be interested in making effort to improve their lot, especially the leaders.

    Kibaki has robbed Kenyans of their mandate. Their right to choose their leader.

    People are protesting it and due to police action, Lots of innocent fellows are dead.

    The next level now is that everyone will be calling on Odinga to call back his protesters.

    That is how Obasanjo rigged elections in Nigeria and everyone kept quiet.

    If things continue this way, this same corrupt leaders will be keep ruling Africa and when they are tired, they give power to who they like.

    How can we move forward?

    If the price Africa has to pay to gain real independence from corrupt fellow Africans is to spill some blood now, and save a lot more in future let it be.

    But Kibaki did not win the election and should not keep ruling.

    Rgds…

    Peter

    Nigeria..

  38. 38 Paul
    January 3, 2008 at 18:42

    2 ODM MPs have been arrested in Kisumu (Nyanza province police commander Michael Baraza told AFP). I think Raila Odinga’s life is in danger.

    Paul
    The Netherlands

  39. 39 Robert Abour
    January 3, 2008 at 18:43

    There is no way Kibaki wants a talk while he is stiil in as president yet he knows very well he STOLE the elections.Kenyans will have dialogue with him once he acknowledges and appologises to Kenyans.The two must come to a table as equals.Not a single as the president.Solutions to these problems lies with Kibaki.Let him stand down so that other negotiations follow.Am Robert Abuor in Dallas Texas.

    Robert Abour,
    Junior Youth MP – Rangwe constituency,
    Orange Democratic Movement Uganda Chapter Co-ordinator,
    Bugema University Kagan Students Association BUKASA-Chairman,
    School Of Education Maths Club Secretary General,

  40. 40 Mathew
    January 3, 2008 at 18:44

    Kenyans should sieze this moment and should not let this get away. Kenyans should put their heads together and teach all of the lying, poll-rigging, power-mongering politicians of Africa an unforgettable lesson. Kenyans do not want to listen to Martha Karua and Kimunya like politicians because they do not know how to speak to the people in civility.

    Mathew
    USA.

  41. 41 Jerry Locula
    January 3, 2008 at 18:44

    Dear BBC,

    I strongly agree that the elections in Kenya were not very freed and fair. But I like to express my serious dissatisfaction on the part of the opposition who are taking the laws into their own hands. May they stop the violence and go through the court system. I don’t want to see Kenya being another Liberia.

    Jerry Locula
    Monrovia, Liberia

  42. 42 Ayodeji
    January 3, 2008 at 18:45

    I cant just help thinking how misguided the supporters of Odinga Raila are. Do they think this man will make a good president? A man who refuses to find a peaceful resolution to this voting outcome via discussion? A man who will rather go on with a rally that could cause further people to die. A man who isn’t asking his supporters to refrain from Violence? Is this a man who cares about the people in his country? Is this the man the “intelligent people” of Kenya want as their president. He will sell them before he loses power. To me he appears like a man who if given power will never vacate the post. I feel so ridiculous to share a continent with people like this

    Ayodeji

  43. 43 Nicola
    January 3, 2008 at 18:46

    It seems that political figures and potential leaders of third world countries simply don’t want to get it right for their people…they want to satisfy huge egos, whield power and line their pockets with money…and ensure their positions by a tainted and unfair election process.
    If the opposite were true think what great nations we would have thus providing a strong voice in global politics rather than having to be a poor relation to rich and powerful nations..Nicola, Jamaica

  44. 44 Syed Shahab Rehman
    January 3, 2008 at 18:46

    In response to a question from sky news about the involvement of government in bhutto killing, Musharaf replied that “I am not a feudal land lord or a tribal to do such a thing”. I do agree with him saying that he belongs to an educated family and he was never taught to kill someone but once again Musharaf disappoints us by stereotyping and branding landlords and tribal as killers.

    Any outsider living in the tribal areas of Pakistan does not make them a tribal or at least any action of them should not be blamed on all tribals. If our own president think of tribals as killers how can we make the western world believe that we are peace loving people in need of basic development and education, not another military operation.

    Syed shahab Rehman
    Glasgow

  45. 45 Avagalwa Paul Masidza
    January 3, 2008 at 18:47

    The only solution to Kenyan post election problems is for Mr. Kibaki to allow re-run of elections in the 48 affected constituencies or the entire regions. It is only through this that he will prove to the nation that he really won. Use of army and police wont solve anything. As much as he sticks to the presidency he will not only widen the gap between the affected communities and more violence but also damage to countries good peaceful reputation and economy.

    Avagalwa Paul Masidza-western KENYA

  46. 46 Khadar
    January 3, 2008 at 18:47

    I believe Kenyan leaders ought to swallow their pride and work towards peace. If tension is not arrested,It will lead to Rwanda scenario. We should not be complacent and the time to take action is now and must be fast. The unrest is not criminal acts or robbery,it is political crises and needs a political solution.

  47. 47 Bekele Woyecha
    January 3, 2008 at 18:48

    I am really sorry for the feelings of Elizabeth and others in Elderet. Yet it is all down to Kibaki and his colleagues to work for the stability of the country as they have robbed off voter’s democratic rights. Kibaki should take responsibility and compromise for the better before it is too late. They should work for stability at all cost, including power relinquishing.
    Bekele Woyecha, London.

  48. 48 Paul Tominac
    January 3, 2008 at 18:49

    BBC WHYS:

    Another period of slaughter in yet another African country, and once again, one voice seems silent: The Archbishop of the Anglican Church in Rwanda. When a liberal synod of the Church in America chooses a gay bishop, the Arch Bishop of Rwanda finds the idea so repellent he makes an international stink. But, apparently, when Africans start murdering each other, the Archbishop of Rwanda seems to see nothing worth speaking to. I find it hard to believe that homosexuality is somehow more abhorrent to God than mass slaughter, so from my perspective the Archbishop has, by his silence, made himself out to be a hypocrite..

    Paul Tominac
    San Francisco

  49. 49 Anonymous
    January 3, 2008 at 18:49

    Shame on kibaki! You were defeated and you were a president and you are behaving like rebel.please save kenya and your people

  50. 50 Nasombi. Kenya
    January 3, 2008 at 18:50

    If Kibaki cared for his people he would have agreed to talk to the opposition. Kenyans are dying as his ministers talk with such arrogance.

  51. 51 Tom
    January 3, 2008 at 18:51

    I am kenyan who is gravely appalled by the current crisis. The brackish way in which politicians are playing with human life. I just don’t understand, the opposition has 100 + members while the incumbent has a handful and then he is re-elected, it doesn’t add up.
    Stop the violence and call re-election, let the incumbent win clean.

    TOM

  52. 52 David of Lambwe,Suba-KENYA
    January 3, 2008 at 18:51

    .Sample this! kenyans were fed up with nepotism termed kikuyuism in the Kibaki s Govt.Yet currently who holds the key

  53. 53 Eric Yomi
    January 3, 2008 at 18:51

    If the international observers have deemed the elections fraudulent and if the opinion of the international community is that the elections were far from transparent, isn’t any attempt to resolve this crisis by legitimising the fraudulent results futile? If so, wouldn’t it be sensible for the current president to call for a recount of the votes of a re-run of these elections? And shouldn’t the international community be pressing for this?

  54. 54 Keiyo
    January 3, 2008 at 18:52

    A question to Mr. Wamwere

    -Was the election rigged and who planned post election violence?
    -Why didnt the government crack down on pro-government vigilante groups such as the Mungiki and Chinkororo?
    -Where will the Kikuyus displaced from Rift Valley Go?

    To Ruto and Wamwere Is the Government Guilty Restriction of media and ban of public demonstrations. Police shoot to kill order.

    Refusal of the government to participate in international arbitration.Controversial vote tallying process and hastily swearing-in of the president.Arming of pro-government vigilante groups such as the Mungiki and Chinkororo and their incorporation into the uniformed forces.Senseless killings of the poor and destruction of property.

    Mention Kibakis record on corruption:The exile of John Githongo, Economic Crimes Forgiveness Act pushed by the government on the last parliament.
    We call on international community to push for among other things:

    A freeze on travel visas Kibaki and his family

    A freeze on travel visas by senior government officials

    Freeze specific aid grants

    Recall a number of key diplomatic staff from Nairobi and expel the Kenyan embassy officials

    Demand that Kibaki cedes his bandit presidency and hands over power to ‘the people’ and their elected leader.

  55. 55 David of Lambwe,Suba-KENYA
    January 3, 2008 at 18:52

    Sample this! kenyans were fed up with nepotism termed kikuyuism in the Kibaki s Govt.Yet currently who holds the key: funtional Ministriers:-(1)INTERNAL SECURITY-Michuki,a kikuyu(2)CONSTITUTIONAL MINISTER-Marther Karua-a kikuyu(3)FINANCE MINISTER-Amos Kimunya-a kikuyu(4 CHIEF JUSTICE-Evans Gicheru-a kikuyu.The list is endless.Question;Are all the remaining 41 tribes not able?

  56. 56 Kiprop Kipsang
    January 3, 2008 at 18:52

    My comment to Have your say live

    It would appear from what the Minister Koigi Wa Wamwere is saying, is that President Kibaki got himself into this situation so as to force another election having conceded that Raila Odinga’s ODM had won. What would he have to say about this?

    Kiprop Kipsang

  57. 57 CAROL in kenya
    January 3, 2008 at 18:52

    I find what the president has said in bad taste.what if the violence continues 4 yrs.it is the dialogue that is to bring peace not to wait 4 pple 2 die further then talk

  58. 58 Isaac Kiplagat
    January 3, 2008 at 18:53

    I would like to thank Wamwere when he says that elections have to be repeated.What does he think about the 3 arrogant ministers(Kimunya,Michuki and Karua) who do not want to listen to anything and who appear to have held hostage the president

    Isaac Kiplagat

  59. 59 a texter from Nigeria
    January 3, 2008 at 18:53

    Mr Kibaki is cynical. He is the cause of the problem and should step down. What he said is reminiscent of Nigeria s leaders after they have stolen peoples vote.

  60. 60 Eric
    January 3, 2008 at 18:53

    If the international observers have deemed the elections fraudulent and if the opinion of the international community is that the elections were far from transparent, isn’t any attempt to resolve this crisis by legitimising the fraudulent results futile? If so, wouldn’t it be sensible for the current president to call for a recount of the votes of a re-run of these elections? And shouldn’t the international community be pressing for this?

    Eric
    Langley, England

  61. 61 Frm a lucky but v worried nd scared kenyan in hurlingham nairobi
    January 3, 2008 at 18:54

    Word is martha karua nd john michuki are the powers behind pnu.How true?.

  62. 62 Mwenyi Davis
    January 3, 2008 at 18:55

    Its not kibaki to talk about respect for the constitution b se de enfranchised kenyans b stealing the election. Its a very bad african example.

  63. 63 Andre C
    January 3, 2008 at 18:55

    I have several questions for the Kenyan Opposition.

    How much actual evidence of election fraud do you have?
    If election fraud existed, can you show that it is enough to have changed the result of the election?
    What role have you played in attempting to stop the post-election violence?

    André C., Portland, Maine, USA

  64. 64 Josephine
    January 3, 2008 at 18:56

    This is Josephine Muluka, a Kenyan living in France. The Kenyans did their role by voting very peacefully. Obviously it’s during the counting that things went wrong, with allegations that there was rigging on both sides. Now, I believe the best soultion would be doing a re-run. However, what guarantee do we have that there won’t be rigging once again? I believe at this stage, we’ll have to call upon international observers to do the tallying and counting.What do both Ruto and Kamwere think of a thrid party from outside keyan stepping in, in the palce of ECK

  65. 65 text
    January 3, 2008 at 18:56

    The Kenyan govt should be more serious ,if people have died and some are running 2Uganda there is a big problem the govt is incubating a pepertual futu

  66. 66 Jones, Accra Ghana.
    January 3, 2008 at 18:57

    Kibaki is a plain thief and shd be made to step down!

  67. 67 From Falilu bah freetown,Sierra leone.
    January 3, 2008 at 18:58

    no man is so stupid as to desire war more than peace – for in peace sons bury their fathers, and in war fathers bury their sons. However Mr kibaki has choose war,may Allah save Kenya amin.

  68. 68 Chike
    January 3, 2008 at 18:58

    As a Nigerian who has seen this playbook in the past I am thoroughly ashamed that Mr. Kibaki for all his supposed statesmanship and education could lead his country to where it is today through a crude, clumsy and transparent attempt to manipulate the electoral process. I hope he comes to his senses quickly to preserve whatever legacy he may have or face the fate that ultimately awaits all sit tight leaders in Africa which is either death in office, civil war in their countries, or both.

    Chike
    Chicago, USA

  69. 69 Etekit-kumi-uganda
    January 3, 2008 at 18:58

    Kibaki should take responsibity for what has happened in Kenya and it s a high time Africa condemns such dictators.

  70. 70 James Banda
    January 3, 2008 at 18:58

    What we are seeing in Kenya is what happened in Malawi in 2004 elections with one difference: Malawi took 12 hrs to swear in President, while Kenya is now holding the world record of swearing in president of less than 120 minutes.

    The problem is the appointment of commission and use of government agents/civil servants as returning officers.

    We have a stand off about appointment of commissioners now in Malawi and are learning again from Kenya experience.

    Forget courts. They never reverse presidential status quo in Africa

    James Banda, MALAWI

  71. 71 Abdi, nairobi.
    January 3, 2008 at 18:58

    Bbc world have your say: I don t believe mr kibaki s call for dialogue and am sure violence will continue as long as he is office because he never respected parties in the past

  72. 72 Steve
    January 3, 2008 at 18:59

    Ros, your resolution should have been to stop blaming the phone connection and blame the accent of the caller. I realize that’s probably not PC, but it is the truth. It seems you always have “bad connections”
    when it’s an African or Indian/Pakistani caller even though the line is clear, it’s the accent on it that is difficult to make out.

    Steve
    USA

  73. 73 Sylvester
    January 3, 2008 at 18:59

    I believe ODM would love to go to court. But they cannot because the courts, the execuive and the presidency are one and the same thing in Kenya. If ODM goes to court, the verdict will be written at state house and the judge will only have to read it.

    Remember, when Kenyans and the international community were dissuading the ECK commissioner from announcing the results, the swearing-in team was waiting for the certificate at state house.

    The path Kenyans have taken is the hard way but it is the only way!

    Sylvester

    Missouri, USA

  74. 74 Tom Odhiambo
    January 3, 2008 at 19:00

    Kenya is a deeply tribal society and this election outcome has exposed the beast. The people should acknowledge this and then set solutions. I live in America a society with different ethnities, races, creeds,etc. They did acknowledge theri deficiencies and found solutions like when it comes to employment, finding a house or school you have a disclaimer that states equal opportunity employer, housing and education provider.

    Can we as a society in Kenya borrow a leaf? Let us acknowledge who we are.

  75. 75 Waithira
    January 3, 2008 at 19:01

    Thank you for this very informative show with Wamwere and Ruto….Ruto has helped us understand what ODM would be like as leaders. He should have condemned the violence immediately rather than showing us how egotistical he and his party are.

    Thanks,
    Waithira

  76. 76 Jonathan
    January 3, 2008 at 19:02

    This is a a disgrace to my mother Africa
    when i watch cnn and bbc and seeing my people dying.
    For pres kofour am happy that he is not allowed to kanya
    Kofour to solve the volence in the northen part of ghana before thinking of others
    Jonathan
    Ghana-accra

  77. 77 Agwambo Odera. Nbi
    January 3, 2008 at 19:30

    Kibaki & raila united in 2002 Kenya was 1. They divide, we die. Don t want both oldguard elite puppets. Media very bias & irresponsible.

  78. 78 Julie
    January 3, 2008 at 19:48

    BBC,

    The real issue is not being addressed. The question is: did Kibaki legitimately win the election? Based on the remarks made by ECK commission’s chairman and some commissioners, the results are questionable. To avoid any more violence then, it is imperative that Kibaki accepts to either have a recount of the votes or a reelection. I don’t think any party is directly responsible for the escalating violence. Rather, the people feel cheated and are taking the law into their own hands. Unless Kibaki faces the fact that his “win” is the cause of the problem, violence will continue. We all know also that the Kenyan courts are filled with Kibaki cronies making this not an option to pursue. Thanks.

    Julie Bore

    No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.
    Nelson Mandela

  79. 79 Samuel Mathau
    January 3, 2008 at 19:49

    It is amazing to think that violence and mayhem can solve current problems. It is a shame that this is happening in Kenya. The ordinary Kenyans will surfer in the long run. I hate to see another Somalia, Sudan, Ruanda and Liberia. For the sake of the country and the rest of the Kenyans. If ODM is bent on encouraging violence, how can they be trusted to up hold the rule of the law. At the same time, If Mr. Kibaki won “fair and square”, then let there be a recount and barring another election which can be held within a reasonable time.

    I am not a Kenyan but I was born there and have deep feeling about the country and as such, current violence touches me and many others in the west who love Kenya.
    Please get it together and stop all the mayhem. The rally should not take place as it would be another invitation for larger scale violence.

  80. 80 Rev Kriwa Maritim
    January 3, 2008 at 19:49

    Hon. Rutto is championing the rights and democracy of the people of Kenya. Kenyans made their choice at the ballot, but Mwai Kibaki in a premeditated move colluded with ECK to abort justice and democracy. He appointed new Judges to the High Court of Appeals who are his cronies and now he is asking Raila to take his grievances there? We do’t trust Kenya’s judicial system and ECK has lost the little confidence we had. Right now Kibaki is unleashing police brutality to “shoot & kill” innocent demonstrators sparking off looting and killings. Kenya Police & General Service unit has killed more Kenyan’s than anybody else. At this point Kenyan’s are left with one alternative in fighting for their rights; nationwide mass & peaceful street demonstrations to force Kibaki and his illegal government out of Nairobi.

    Rev. Kirwa Maritim- Washington, DC

  81. 81 T. Kootee KORVAH
    January 3, 2008 at 21:07

    Dear World Have Your Say,

    I have a comment to make to Mr. Wanwar of the Kenyan Authority.

    My question is, why is it the authority rush in endosing Mr. Kibaki as President in view of the earlier cry of the opposition about fraud during the vote counts.

    Now, almost all the election commisionners have admitted that there were frauds or the result are not correct. Could you appreciate going through now to avoid the unrest at present in your country? If proven guilty, will your self declared president come down for the sake of peace and genuin demoncracy in Kenya and the world at large?

  82. 82 Concerned
    January 4, 2008 at 08:20

    I may understand that Kibaki may have lost the election, but for ODM to say that they won outright is also disingenuous because the Chairman of the Electoral Commission himself said that he did not know for sure who won.

    The country is dangerously polarized, and I would just want Ruto to let Kenyans know what they see as the logical conclusion of the impasse. Or at least paint a few viable scenarios. For them simply to say that they will not talk to the government side, even though it is illegitimate, only risks drawing out the problem and creating a situation where more people die from hunger than from the violence.

  83. 83 muthee mwangi
    January 4, 2008 at 09:32

    Hi Ros
    great stuff you are doing with world have your say. last night’s show where you hosted Mr Ruto and Mr Wa Wamwere left me wondering whether our leaders are relly concerned about the situation thats prevailing on the ground today.
    particularly ruto who was loudly yelling to the world audience that they are not involved in the systematic looting, killing and wanton destruction of property.what he didn’t tell the world is that Eldoret where people were burnt inside a church(which he also shamelessly tried to justify as not caused by arsonists) is his both parliamentary and political constituency and the killers are actually his fellow tribesmen, the kalenjins.
    Just yesterday, the protesters who were called by ODM burnt five cars and a petrol station in Nairobi. in the news we saw footage of the leaders visiting
    supposedly shot by police in Nairobi. but the truth is that we followed proceedings yesterday and nobody was actually hurt by gunfire the whole day.
    this shows that they just want to capitalize on the violence and gain political mileage over the president.
    thanks

    .

  84. 84 Kootee - JAPAN
    January 4, 2008 at 15:58

    Dear World Have Your Say,

    I have a comment to make to Mr. Wanwar of the Kenyan Authority.

    My question is, why is it the authority rush in endosing Mr. Kibaki as President in view of the earlier cry of the opposition about fraud during the vote counts.

    Now, almost all the election commisionners have admitted that there were frauds or the result are not correct. Could you appreciate going through now to avoid the unrest at present in your country? If proven guilty, will your self declared president come down for the sake of peace and genuin demoncracy in Kenya and the world at large?

  85. 85 Elijah Ngotho Ngugi
    January 4, 2008 at 15:58

    Is it possible to buy back democracy through killing the inoscent women and children?

    does Britain or American give in to terrorism that express their voice through Killing others n not exchange what we claim to be democracy with deaths of children and women who are helpless in a church as we claim to have been stolen the election. Moi have been stealing elections for over 24 years. There has never been any Kalenjins killed or a Luo for that matter let alone being barbaric and burning the church killing over fifty people. What uncouth way to claim you are making a legitimate and democratic statement. How do you get leadership position by shedding blood of the Kikuyus and then you tell people you like peace. It shows that is what you would do with same democracy if you took over the government .
    go to court. if it fails the world will see what you have done you make a point as an individual whose objective is true peace.
    Raila has chosen to finish traditional anger that has been there for generation in the pretext of stolen election.

  86. 86 Anthony Osula
    January 4, 2008 at 15:59

    what happened in Kenya is similar to People getting together to destroy hell then electing Lucifer to lead them towards the future.
    How could all the members of Kibaki’s party be voted out then turn around and elect him as the leader. come on, it does not take a rocket scientist to see that this is wrong.
    There can not be any trust to take the people to the courts which are only going to be run by the same people who rigged the elections.
    There needs to be re-elections under the observance by the international community and the public. A recount at this time will not help as there has been enough time for the Kibaki camp to adjust the papers.
    Kibaki needs to step down and call for re-elections. I know he is getting his advice from somewhere else but he needs to be a man and do the right thing!
    Not even a coalition govt. will work. That is giving him a right to what he did. Have re-elections and if he wins let it be!!

  87. 87 Nayan - OTTAWA
    January 4, 2008 at 16:00

    The violence in Kenya is not yet ethnically driven. Do you see any middle class people out there brandishing weapons? Do you hear any calls for a genocide?

    The primary cry is of a ‘stolen’ election.

    The riots are by and large characterized by looting – what does that say?
    That it is currently a conflict a section of the underprivileged who see hope in the improvement of their conditions by virtue of the candidate they support and the incumbent who is perceived of not having succeeded in making a difference to their lives so far.

    How do you tell these people to wait another five years for their hopes to fulfilled? How do you tell the challenger to forget about a victory lost by perceived deceit and no fair play?

  88. 88 Ken
    January 4, 2008 at 16:02

    Hi,

    I’m a Kenyan residing here in the UK and getting increasingly distressed by the dimension the conflict in Kenya is taking and the time it’s taking to get the two protagonists to sit down and resolve the dispute.

    I’m also afraid that sooner we’ll reach a point of no return and Kenya will be heading towards “clanism” in reference to the situation in Somalia.

    I’m also getting increasingly annoyed by the reluctance of Britain and America to take a firm position regarding the conflict and demand a timetable for the resolution of the stand off.

    I feel that the British Govt. is dragging it’s feet and is more interested in protecting its business interests in Kenya than helping in resolving the problems.

  89. 89 Renee
    January 5, 2008 at 04:47

    Hi, am a kenyan kikuyu and before the elections i would have voted (i didnt vote- i reside out of the country) for Raila simply because i wanted to see what new changes he would have brought to the country. He seemed very promising. Now i think both leaders should be kicked out of the ballots and have someone else who is less greedy and who puts the nation first. Mr kibaki, having outrightly stolen the votes showed that he has no integrity whatsoever. Mr Odinga on the other hand, whom i thought was more reasonable, i thought he would put pressure on the particular agencies to get a recount or re-election. Instead he starts protesting and talking about a parallel government. He knows he has the power to tell his supporters who are protesting in the streets to end the violence but instead he looks on and takes advantage of it to force the president to resign. I reviewed his background on bbc.com and this man is hungry for power. if things do not go his way, he moves to something else until now with his goal so close he could taste it, it becomes quite that clear he will not lose. (no matter who pays the price). He was MP for Kibera etc, what has he done to prove that he has made a difference.? Will he, as president, make promises to kenyans like he did to the residents of Kibera and then years down the line, nothing has changed (except he will be richer?). These two leaders must go. The 3rd runner up seems to be a much better choice than both of these combined.

    Renee

  90. 90 Wandetto
    January 5, 2008 at 13:10

    We know that Raila Odinga and the ODM are saints and did not cheat in Luo Nyanza although no PNU agents were allowed there and in other ODM strongholds in Rift Valley and Coast.

    Also, the violence was necessary because the majority voted for Raila. The majority means the four million plus who voted for Raila. Those who voted who Kibaki and Kalonzo represented by than five million votes (after deducting 300,000 which figure the ODM says is what Kibaki inflated his votes by).

    Lastly, most the people calling BBC are pro-Raila. That shows that really the majority of Kenyans want Raila. Never mind that the body given the work of deciding that is the ECK -and that they require one to register with them, and show up in the elections queues.

    PNU are slow riggers, they took over three long days to do the small job of adding a couple o’ thousands on Kibaki’s vote count. The bright ones are ODM who did the job before anyone could realise, or care.

  91. 91 adeline
    January 6, 2008 at 01:24

    one of the speakers here representing raila odinga, william ruto, a kalenjin leader is the one who has been carrying out ethnic cleansing against the kikuyu. he should be prosecuted by the international criminal court for crimes against humanity. he has for long been preaching anti-kikuyu rhetoric for a long time now it is no wonder that most the killings and displacements have occurred in his own constituency.,

  92. January 8, 2008 at 03:59

    Hi, I’m a citizen of neibouring Uganda and I feel that both leaders should be thrown out of politics. Both do not have the interests of their voters at heart.Kibaki after rigging elections is not even considering the fact that his fellow kikuyus are being slaughtered and chased out of their own country because of him.He should do all that he can to save his people even if it means stepping down and holding new elections.We’ll see how he’ll manage to rig them again.Odinga should stop being so selfish as to let the people fight his battles and die so he can acheive his personal goals.The way he’s acting now shows that he can not be a good president,the people don’t matter to him neither does his country’s economy.He had and has the power to stop the rioting and killings,so why isn’t he using it? Does he even consider that some kikuyus might have voted for him? Kibaki,your turn is over,please step down. Odinga,kenya belongs to all kenyans no matter what tribe they come from and they all have the right to life.

    Sheila, Uganda

  93. January 8, 2008 at 10:10

    The United Nation’s delegation,consisting of high ranking officials visited Kenya last week ,told media that more than 1.5 lac people has been compelled to leave their homes.

    In this way, the crisis, created just after election has converted into a horrible shap.

    A good number of families have been stayed in official accomodations and religous places like churches.
    According to them more than three hundred died during the violence.

    Western kenya is going through a tough time ,there are all refugees ,facing hungry ,childern are dying due to exposure and lack of food.

    An independent and riable sources has confirmed it that nearly five lac Kenyans require emergency assistance.

    With the issuance of president’s statement in which it was said that he was ready to accept the opposition’s charter of demands including fresh election in case, a court of law ordred for,then change appeared and agitation fizzled out,but not absolutely only to some extent.

  94. 94 mathew Birgen
    February 15, 2008 at 12:28

    Hi
    In my view,it is blatantly ashameful that Kibaki cannot be in control of the country as they say he is the “president”.Why is it that when Kibaki and Raila meet,high expectation on successful discussion runs thru the country?After a short time Martha Karua fights back in disagreement.Pliz Mr. kibaki take control of your women and men.In R/valley any time Karua and Mutua speaks,a house is torched becouse of their arrogance.A safe travel to the Haque should be ready incase Martha is not Ready for peace.As a christian its my prayer that she comes to the knowladge of the loving God,who cares and is not happy to see His children suffer.
    Kenyans in Diaspora what are you doing in the comfort zones silent when your invesment in your families is destroyed?we want to see and hear you speak on this issues.Lets all call for peace.


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