02
Jan
08

KENYA – ARE YOU THERE ?

Morning / afternoon / evening, Peter Dobbie here with news of todays World Have Your Say, on air at 1800 GMT.

Kenya is still dominating the news agenda today, with the feeling that the planned opposition rally tomorrow might become something of a flashpoint. Both sides in Kenya’s disputed election have accused the other of violence as diplomatic efforts intensify to defuse the country’s political crisis.

The main news out of Nairobi is that at least 275 people have been killed, including 30 in western Kenya burned to death while sheltering in a church. That happened yesterday, but the injured are still in hospital. Many Kenyans have been taking refuge from armed mobs and looters as fears mount of further attacks and reprisals. Police in the capital have set up barricades at the major roundabouts into the city and they’ve stopped traffic.

Now, what we’re planning for today will shape-up like this – we hope. Do you remember one of my presenter / anchor colleagues called “Gmoney”, a lovely guy who fronted WHYS about six months ago. Well, he now lives and works in Nairobi, and like all broadcasters the plug was well and truly pulled on his efforts, alongwith what seems like every radio and tv station in the country. They’re back on air now but he’s e-mailed us here in London, to say that people were either trying to tune into the BBC World Service, or watching our sister TV network BBC World – because information was so scarse.

Here’s a link to Gmoney’s radio station.

Anyway, what we’re going for is what we call a co-pres show — me in London, Gmoney either at his radio station, or on a sat-phone, plus people from all over the country. We know that many areas have no electriticy, and no phones, but we also know that people have been e-mailing top-up vouchers around, so if someone has something like a Blackberry they can at least communicate. We want to hear from those people. 

What we’re going for is voices from the trouble spots, from different tribes, who voted for different parties. There’s nothing to separate the political parties when it comes to policies, it’s all about tribal loyalities — and how they feed into tensions that have now simmered for many years. Those voices, those stories will make up todays World Have Your Say.

Tell us what you think: Who did you vote for ? Did you vote simply along tribal lines ? Is that issue of the election now lost, overtaken by what’s going on right now ? Did this trouble start because the election was rigged and the vote was so very close ? What will happen at this opposition rally tomorrow ? Are you one of these people who’re staying low, hiding indoors? Let us know what you think…

As ever:

WORLDHAVEYOURSAY.COM
TEXT: +44 77 86 20 60 80
PHONE: +44 20 70 83 72 72

Later, Peter :o)


58 Responses to “KENYA – ARE YOU THERE ?”


  1. 1 Nolbert Muhumuza
    January 2, 2008 at 13:25

    The election rigging in Kenya and the chaos has caused serious problems in Uganda. In just 2 days we have seen fuel prices hike to 10,000 Shillings, from 2,400. Thats roughly 5.6 dollards from 1.3! We are already seeing people park their cars and motorcycles because of the fuel hikes. Its alleged that gas stations are actually hiking the prices to take advantage of the violence in Kenya in pretence of fuel shortage yet they have alot of fuel in their reserves!


    Nolbert Muhumuza,
    Kampala – Uganda.

  2. 2 Duncan
    January 2, 2008 at 13:27

    The Rwanda Genocide, The Darfur Crisis, The Somali War, The Congo war, and now?………………….. Will we call it Kenyan Genocide??????????
    No way, in the full glare of international community. The US, Britain, China, Japan, Germany, Canada, France- all have enjoyed a good peaceful relations with Kenya, and now we as the Kenyan Citizens are asking for your help. We are not ready for ethnic cleansing, we are ready for peace and not fighting. Please we pray that the international community to come up and help broker peace between the two warring leaders in Kenya. We ask leaders like Nelson Mandela, former UN Chief Koffi Annan- the long term friends of Kenya to hurry and help restore peace in Kenya. Tension is high and we need your help. Already many people have been displaced and killed in the rampant ethnic violence that has hit Western and Coastal parts of Kenya, we also ask the international communities for a quick move to help deliver aid to the starving people affected by this menace.

    Here, I am writing this plea with my last round of meal and with the Internet credit ending by Jan 13th and with no money to renew this, I am making my final plea, Please Pray for our peace, pray for the brokering of peace in Kenya. This peace loving nation can not be brought down by a few cronies and clowns who think they can manipulate Kenyans and incite them for their political gains. Please please please, help us.

    Thank you for not letting us down citizens of the world.
    Duncan
    Kenya East Africa.

  3. 3 Inusa
    January 2, 2008 at 13:37

    Kenyans, you should use all available means within your reach to fight for democracy, but not by killing your fellow kenyans. Kibaki is corrupt and must go. Africa is no longer a safe heaven for dictators and corrupt politicians like Kibaki. You should know that the politicians have always use ethnicity and religion for their selfish interests. Please do not be deceived by these.Poverty, disease, illetracy, etc does not know ethnicity or religion, and these and many others can only be fought except the right leaders are elected to lead the people.For Mr Kibaki ther is no hiding place for you.You must go, the people have spoken. Bravo Kenyans. God help Kenya

    (Inusa, a Nigerian student in London, Canada)

  4. 4 Sylvester
    January 2, 2008 at 13:40

    I think it is time that prominent international news houses such as the BBC and the CNN take serious note of the genocide that is unfolding in Kenya and do something before it goes of control.
    President Mwai Kibaki is mistaken if he thinks he can rig the elections, hide behind legal technicalities to remain the president and use state machinery to suppress legitimate public anger.
    The president knows and everyone knows he has stolen the vote. This is an illegitimate president and he expects Kenyans to take recourse to legal avenues, the result of which will not be known even after five years hence.
    The best the president can do is to vacate office on his own. The costs of waiting until he is evacuated are beyond comprehension at this stage, but will certainly be borne by the countries most populous community.
    That the president has stolen the vote and that his continuation in office is detrimental to his own people must be used to impress the president to resign and go.
    The BBC should also open an avatar to enable Kenyans across the world to post and access whatever is going on in Kenya because the Government of Kenya has muzzled all media houses.
    I look forward for your kind and favourable consideration.
    Yours faithfully
    Sylvester
    India

  5. 5 Charles
    January 2, 2008 at 13:51

    Any call for stability has to be unequivocal. It is a contradiction for Raila of Kenya’s opposition to appeal for calm whilst simultaneously asking Kenyans countrywide to hold a protest march on Thursday. No protest march can be held peacefully under an environment of heightened tension.
    Charles, Nairobi,

  6. 6 Tony
    January 2, 2008 at 13:55

    Hi, I’m a Kenyan living in Oregon. My family is in Western Kenya, and my uncle was shot dead in November in election-related violence. Right now, I think there is a solution we’re not seeing: the opposition has a majority in parliament that they can use to vote no confidence in the government and president. Let Raila accept defeat for others’ lives’ sake and go to parliament with his majority for a showdown with Kibaki. If Kibaki wants to dissolve parliament, then he too will have to seek a fresh mandate from the people.
    Tony
    Corvallis, OR/Bungoma, Kenya

  7. 7 Joseph
    January 2, 2008 at 13:59

    Am a poor kenyan livin on less than a doller per day, i voted because i wanted some real changes in my life and the people, but am being denied my rights as a voter to elect a leader we want. Why do they tell us to go to polls then they are just rigging openly even a 10Year old baby can tell clearly that the polls was rigged.Now i know change doesn’t come on a silver plate,am really ready to die fighting for my rights if Kibaki is still the president, is it a must he must rule us if we dont want him?or this is because of selfishnesses?Am totally sad and ill not give up.
    Joseph Awa Kawino
    Kenya

  8. 8 Alexander
    January 2, 2008 at 14:02

    Am from Jua Kali 20km from Eldoret. Chaos are all over. The kikuyu tribe that lived in this area were chased and the houses lotted and burned to ashes. Its this tribe that makes kenyans feel go into chaos. Nobody wants to associate with them! Raila pledged to deal with corruption which makes the Kibaki team fearful since most of them are involved, but kenyans want the person they willingly voted, who is RAILA! Imagine, am supposed to join Eldoret Poly on 7th this month to do Diploma in Accounting, but don’t know when peace will ever get back. Rumours of insecurity take the better hand while the president is at peace not bother to give an assurance of calm! The pple you inquire from are HIS, Matha karua, amos kimunya, alfred mutua etc. I’ld like to say bravo to BBC for alighting kenyans while our own stations are banned. Thanks and keep up the good spirit.
    Alexander, aged 20 from Eldoret.

  9. 9 Mustafa
    January 2, 2008 at 14:03

    it saddens me and i believe almost everyone in the world to see our country which has been peaceful going to the dogs simply because our politicians wont humble their selfish ambitions and interests for the sake of the 35+million kenyans.Raila and Kibaki must meet and solve the stalemate before our slippling nation falls.that a the EU observers, the electoral commission itself and the ODM feel there was dicrepancies in the tallying of the presidential votes, the PNU and especially its leader and some chest-thumping ministers,need to respsct the sanctity of human life being lost and join the rest in an urgent round table negotiation.
    anyway keep us informed on whats happening since our media too have been gagged,we barely get enough from our once free media.thanks

  10. 10 Theuri
    January 2, 2008 at 14:07

    Am a regular listener but am very disappointed by the way you western Media is potraying the situation here in our country.
    It so sad to hear people in America and Europe telling us How Nairobi is a No Go Zone please your dont have to tear our country Apart with the senseles News

    Regards
    Theuri

  11. 11 Thika
    January 2, 2008 at 14:08

    The greed in Kibaki to lead for a second term in Kenya has landed once a peaceful country into blood sheding one.

    He Kibaki and his followers can’t be ashamed of what they are doing. After people rejected him and then he went forward to rig the results.

    The innocent blood of the people shed as a result of Kibaki’s irresponsibility will haunt him the rest of his term in office, the chairman of the Kenya Electoral commission and Kibaki’s men.

    God save us all and deliver Kenya from these dirty hands.

  12. 12 Chris
    January 2, 2008 at 17:12

    Election in Kenya

    It is a shame to see broad day light theft.

    It is equaly a shame to see the rest of the world watch Kenya to rapidly descend to chaos especially when this kind of film has been seen elsewhere before.

    In the case of Rwanda, DRC, Sudan, Somalia and others for example.

    1) Economics and business important.

    2) Human life and Rights very important

    3) Fight againist Terror not too far in the distance should the situation continue

  13. 13 kariuki07
    January 2, 2008 at 17:13

    On Violence in Kenya,
    No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.
    By Nelson Mandela.

    Kariuki, aged 28, Nakuru, Kenya

  14. 14 Isaac Kiplagat
    January 2, 2008 at 17:16

    I want to disagree with what many media houses say about the current mayhem in Kenya.For heaven’s sake,it is not a Kikuyu-Luo affair.clashes are all over the country even where there are no luos.Luo inhabit only Nairobi and Kisumu.The fight is a manifestation of the people’s desire to do away with politicians who have dominated them for decades.They have always stolen from the public,rigged elections and continued to politically straddle over our heads.People are resorting to unorthodox means of fighting because in Kenya,you can never have a peaceful demonstration.Police will always be set upon you.

    Kibaki is sleeping in State House.He is not in-charge.He has been kidnapped by 4 people(John Michuki,Martha Karua,Stanley Murage,Kiraitu Murungi and Amos Kimunya).Kibaki is largely a nice guy..but he has no capacity to resist his handlers.
    The international community must isolate this government completely.The EU must ban Kibaki and his ministers from traveling to Europe.They must,at least designate his government as a terror organization

    Isaac Kiplagat
    Kenya

  15. 15 Isaac Kiplagat
    January 2, 2008 at 17:17

    Dear BBC,

    I think the Incumbent President Mwai Kibaki can be directly held responsible for the attrocities in today’s Kenya’s. How Can he Change the will of the People by insisting that he must be named as the winner in an Elections he loose woefully.

    Give Caeser’s what Belongs to Caeser’s and What is good for the Goose is Good for the Gangers.

    Kenya should have been peaceful if the KEC announces the Expectations for the Polls. Sierra Leone is today relatively in Peace because our Former President Dr. Alhaji Ahmad Tejan Kabbah listens to the will of the People and give orders for no backing and the Real Winner of giving the Power from the Opposition Part APC and this bring us our Peace and Joy today.

    Mwai Kibaki should have seeks advice from Tejan Kabbah who is in Kenya as a Representative of the Commonwealth Observer as Head of Delegations.

    Shame On The Police of Kenya that fires directly at the Demonstrators and this ignite the whole Scenario and Chaos by burning, machetting, looting and Killing of Innocent peaceful Souls. May the Souls of The Innocent Rest In Peace.

    The Kenya Police Clearly committed Offences of Genocide and the International Community should set up an inquiry for a Genocide Offenses and Ethnic Cleansing in Kenya, they cannot sit down and watch another Rwanda in Today’s Millenium.

    Rgds

    Chernor Musa Jalloh
    (Football Scout & Consultant )
    Freetown, Sierra Leone.

  16. 16 Hatar
    January 2, 2008 at 17:19

    If you go to any African country in the rural area, over 40 years after independence the miserly one sees there is very very painful. These are places where people still live “naturally” miserably, using traditional medicine, afraid of witches, no safe drinking water, not enough food to eat… Yet the political leaders most of whom were born around about independence time have grown up in situations where such deprivation is not known. The Kenya situation is the beginning of bursting anger: that the statistics of economic growth always well touted by politicians never sink down to the levels where the poor live. So when the people think they made a political choice of their own, someone decides for them that he is better for them. The other African leaders watch out, this anger is unstoppable. Democracy will be the only thing to bring stability. let the people chose who they want. One weeps for the innocents caught up in the greed of power hungry politicians, well protected by the police, and eating their new year chicken!

    Dr. Augustin Hatar
    Institute of Journalism and Mass Communication University of Dar es Salaam
    Tanzania

  17. 17 Mr Desiderious Simiyu
    January 2, 2008 at 17:20

    This is the best solution:
    1. Let Mr. Odinga be prime minister and to form the Goverment with authority to appoint Minsters from any party.
    2. Let Mr Kibaki remain a ceremonial president for 30 days.
    3. Let the ECK and independed international bodies peruse the results.
    3. Whoever wins thereafter should form Govt a fresh.

    Mr Desiderious Simiyu ~ Nairobi Kenya

  18. 18 Siam Babu
    January 2, 2008 at 17:24

    Democracy is cheating. Analyze in India. Just for example, the other day, one politician Janardhan Reddy died. All his party members and also many so called opposition members are yelling into media mikes that they will stand by the bereaved family tall and will go to the extent of giving away an M.L.A post unopposed to one of his family members ! Is this democracy ? Look at the poor and under privileged in India. And look at nonsense like this .

    A hard disk of 500 GB will not suffice to write the horrible way in which this democracy is running.

    Regards Syam.

  19. 19 Dr Seronei Cheison
    January 2, 2008 at 18:02

    BBC,
    The running battles in Kenya and the genocide that is unfolding right before our eyes have nothing to do with a Luo-Kikuyu war. The Luo don’t live in Eldoret, neither in Mombasa. It is a war between the disillusioned Kenyans whose election victory was stolen from them and innocent people bearing the brunt just because the thieves happen to belong to their ethnic community. Innocent Kenyans are being killed by Mungiki (that gang of goons which beheads people in ritual killings) in Eldoret, Kapsabet and Kericho. Mungiki is taking orders from the government because the police are feeling the pain of a battered country. Innocent Kenyans need not die, where is the first lady Lucy the civil-servant-slapping champion of women and children. Kibaki did not steal this poll for the Kikuyu, he did it for some vested class interests and BBC please allow me to speak to Lucy Kibaki and her family.

    Talk to your husband, Lucy. Tell Kibaki that as a mother and a grandmother you can no longer stand the sight of one more innocent Kenyan dying for no other reason but that he and his senseless supporters stole victory from the people. Kenyans will remember you as the mother of the nation who stood up to the hegemony that has besmirched your family. Save our country, otherwise you will be remembered as the spineless mugger of the nation who stood by as Kenyans were being killed by Mungiki and the Police. Please Lucy, you may even slap all those who stole the ballot for your husband, we will lionise you for that effort and forgive you for slapping a hapless civil servant the other Jamhuri day .

    ——————————————————-
    Dr. Seronei araap Chelulei Cheison, PhD
    Technical University of Munich
    Germany
    Personal homepage: http://www.sinonin.com

  20. 20 Anonymous
    January 2, 2008 at 18:11

    This has been fueled by unfulfild promises by the gov.& the need for change.NOT TRIBALISM.

  21. 21 John
    January 2, 2008 at 18:15

    What a shame on the government of Kenya! Politicians who steal the election blatantly right in the daylight still say that Kenya is a great nation. I cannot stand to see these lying, vote-rigging politicians holding the Holy Bible and taking the oath. By saying, “Kenya is a peaceful nation,” these corrupt politicians brain-washed the Kenyans. They trumpeted throughout the election campaign that they established democracy in Kenya. The same people have now stiffled the media. What a shame on the whole of Africa!

    John
    USA

  22. 22 Mak
    January 2, 2008 at 18:17

    The problem with Kenya elections is shambolic electral laws. A 200,000 vote difference is ground for a petition & the law must alow that before a winner is sworn-in. Mak, Uganda

  23. 23 Tedla Asfaw
    January 2, 2008 at 18:18

    Tomorrow’s protest organized by the opposition should go on and the leaders should inform their supporters to be peaceful and orderly.

    Banning it is counterproductive because anger kept inside should be given outlet otherwise it will be released like we saw it in a dangerous way.

    This is not tribal war it is a power struggle and Western media wanted to simplify it like “terrorism”.
    Going to court is not a solution and I suggest fresh election in the coming months with international supervision.
    Tedla Asfaw
    New York City

  24. 24 Franz Geff
    January 2, 2008 at 18:18

    * Some misinformation – from “G Money” – Kenya cannot be the MOST peace loving place – not factual.

    * Furthermore Kenya has fundamental problems and deep poverty that are due to poor governance.

    * Kenya’s problems are similar to those in Togo and Equatorial Guinea – very deep corruption and poverty. Such countries should be isolated from the international community. Are these leaders not much worse than the so called “bad” Colonial Masters?

    Franz Geff

  25. 25 Anonymous
    January 2, 2008 at 18:19

    We would like two know how many church leaders or Diplomats participated on Mr Kibaki swearing in?

  26. 26 Lawson
    January 2, 2008 at 18:20

    It’s very distressing to hear about the political instability in kenya. It is a country of great potential and an example of the potential of all African nations. I hope that Kenya’s problem will be soon reconciled

    Lawson, in Jamaica

  27. 27 Jimmy Onyo Kulang
    January 2, 2008 at 18:20

    Kibaki should just accept defeat and surrender the office to Odinga, the electrol commioners did accept the fact that there were serious irregularities in the electrol process, that to me simply means exactly what Odinga is saying of robbing people of thier victory,

    I would not call you Mr, President but Kibaki accept the verdic of the people and give Raila the seat, he is the winner your well aware of that fact. just for the sake of suffering people of your country and for your own good name to be respected forever.

    Juba Southern Sudan

  28. 28 Yusuf Kassam
    January 2, 2008 at 18:27

    The mediators are asking the leader of odm honarable Raila Odinga to accect the fraudelent result and reconcile for peace. But we want to see justice first than peace. You can not get peace without justice. And if the mediators will come to this country to ask the honourable Raila Odinga to accecpt the result, they will be embarased on a return flight back without any mediatation. The Kenyan had spoken in a large number and the people of PNU manupalated the results and rushed to swear in the president. All was pre aranged for the rigged in president. If he was elected democratically the violance would not have erepted.
    A concerened Kenyan, Yusuf Kassam. Nairobi.

  29. 29 Max Maximilian Maximus I
    January 2, 2008 at 18:30

    AN APPEAL TO ALL MY KENYAN BROTHERS & SISTERS!

    BBC’s report of attackers throwing a 3-year old baby back into a burning Church is ghastly! Please! In the past, hasn’t enough injustice been done to Africans, by outsiders & by Africans themselves? Remember slavery & Rwanda!

    If you HAVE to fight no one can convince you NOT to. BUT keep it between MEN. Don’t bring women & innocent babies into this ghastly game.

    What did that 3-year old girl KNOW about tribalism & election rigging? TELL ME!!

    MaxMaximilianMaximusI, Indian Caesar in, Singapore

  30. 30 Michael King
    January 2, 2008 at 18:31

    Nairobi,Eldoret, Kisumu: where is America,what are they doing to pressurize Mr Kibaki. To hand over power to the winner Mr Odinga, so that Democracy wil prevail. Like when Mr Arap Moi handed over power to MR Kibaki. Shame on you Mr kibaki, Follow the footsteps of Madiba. My children are living in fear because of you. You must face justice.
    Thanks, Mr MICHAEL KING. Am a SEYCHELLOIS, Am married in Mombasa.

  31. 31 Matelong (Germany)
    January 2, 2008 at 18:32

    The running battles in Kenya and the genocide that is unfolding right before our eyes have nothing to do with a Luo-Kikuyu war. The Luo don’t live in Eldoret, neither in Mombasa. It is a war between the disillusioned Kenyans whose election victory was stolen from them and innocent people bearing the brunt just because the thieves happen to belong to their ethnic community. Innocent Kenyans are being killed by Mungiki (that gang of goons which beheads people in ritual killings) in Eldoret, Kapsabet and Kericho. Mungiki is taking orders from the government because the police are feeling the pain of a battered country. Innocent Kenyans need not die, where is the first lady Lucy the civil-servant- slapping champion of women and children. Kibaki did not steal this poll for the Kikuyu, he did it for some narrow vested class interests and BBC please allow me to speak to Lucy Kibaki and her family.

    Talk to your husband, Lucy. Tell Kibaki that as a mother and a grandmother you can no longer stand the sight of one more innocent Kenyan dying for no other reason but that he and his senseless supporters stole victory from the people. Kenyans will remember you as the mother of the nation who stood up to the hegemony that has besmirched your family. Save our country, otherwise you will be remembered as the spineless mugger of the nation who stood by as Kenyans were being killed by Mungiki and the Police. Please Lucy, you may even slap all those who stole the ballot for your husband, we will lionise you for that effort and forgive you for slapping a hapless civil servant the other Jamhuri day.

  32. 32 Yussue
    January 2, 2008 at 18:32

    Yussue in Kenya
    Kibaki should accept defeat & resign honourably for the bloodshed to stop. Shame on you Kibaki.

  33. 33 Simon
    January 2, 2008 at 18:33

    Simon in Nairobi
    The current state of affairs in Kenya is being fuelled by ODM leaders. They finance youths to cause chaos and shelter them from police.

  34. 34 Bekele Woyecha
    January 2, 2008 at 18:36

    I sometimes wonder whether we need elections in Africa as they have been causes for loss of lives in many parts of Africa. See what is happening in Kenya. The elections in Nigeria, DRC, Uganda, Ethiopia, and Zimbabwe have not been accepted by the oppositions. There needs to be proper and genuine dialogue between opposition leaders and the incumbent party wherever and whenever there is election.
    The reason for the crisis in Kenya to my belief is that the electoral commission was not neutral. It should have been neutral so as to win the confidence of the Kenyan people. In addition to being neutral, it should have been well prepared in terms of logistics and man power. That is one of the pre-conditions for a fair election. We have now learnt that the Kenyan electoral commission chairman himself was not clear as to who has won the election. How come thus he announced the results? Did he think it could bring stability? Was he under pressure from Kibaki and his supporters? That is for him to answer.
    Whoever may have won the elections in Kenya, it is now down to all the parties involved to work for stability and reconciliation. It doesn’t take a genius to guess what is going to happen if these leaders are not ready to hold talks in the earliest possible time and ask their supporters for calm. They need to work together on the future of the country and the people they are ready to lead. The international community especially the African Union, which mostly favours incumbent parties, should put effort to find immediate solutions to the crisis. Neighbouring countries also should help mediate between the opposition and the ruling party as the crises in Kenya have all sorts of impact on these countries. Tribal, religious leaders and community elders also should use their influence to stop the crisis. All concerned should work hard for sustainable peace and democracy in Kenya.
    I am optimist that the days when incumbent parties concede defeats are not far.

  35. 35 Intro
    January 2, 2008 at 18:41

    I think that Kenya can cause another events in the world: some countries can manipulate it and use it for selfish aims, like Sudan. And this will bring not good for all internetional society.

  36. 36 T. Kootee KORVAH
    January 2, 2008 at 18:41

    Dear Kenyans,

    Please forget about tribalism and fight only for demoncracy. Tribalism is a backclash of better standard of life, which is a part of the fruit of true demoncracy. Please try to resolve this issue peacefully. The whole world is listening and looking at you.

  37. 37 Moses Ngone
    January 2, 2008 at 18:44

    I’m a Kikuyu. I would have voted for Raila Odinga irrespective of my tribe. i think was the primary test of genuine democracy in Kenya and our leaders have failed the test miserably. Kibaki has now brought up the same fears we as Kenyans always eluded of power hungry African leaders. Odinga on the other hand is not helping the current situation. He is a populous leader who’s followers have long been marginalized and think that with Odinga as president they will all receive a check in the mail. My support for Odinga is primary due to the need for change style of leadership.

  38. 38 Renee Sue
    January 2, 2008 at 18:45

    I am listening to World Have Your Say and becoming increasingly concerned at remarks made by my fellow Kenyans. I am a Kenyan and it doesnt matter what tribe I am. I am appalled by both our leaders Kibaki and Odinga who have failed to curb the acrimony in the country. what they forget that it is the very kenyans who voted for them that are now suffering or worse still causing massive damage, injury and loss of life.

    I thought the least we can do and simply all appeal to the leaders to go out and stop the violence. Their very presence is demanded at the scenes of the chaos. Kibaki: He is supposedly the president and has failed to make a state address. Seconldy, his cronies – Mutua, Kimunya, Karua – cannot go on to issue such ridiculous statements comparing Kenya to Somali and telling world leaders to stay away. They (the leaders) have failed us so let our statesmen come to our help. It is very african and acceptable.

    Raila: Face it. Luos begun the mayhem and now the likes of the feared Mungiki are up on the go. I demand that you go and ask them to stop the chaos. You are revered and you are listened to. Help us!

    Renee Sue, Lilongwe, Malawi

  39. 39 Julius
    January 2, 2008 at 18:47

    Tribal sentiments have hit highs during Kibaki leadership. It will be worse for Kenya if we allow him to escape this theft, others will never learn.

  40. 40 Njuguna
    January 2, 2008 at 18:47

    Njuguna Maragua, Kenya.
    Raila cannot bring any change compared with Hon Kibaki.

  41. 41 Adewumi
    January 2, 2008 at 18:48

    Adewumi in Nigeria
    The international community should order for a recount.

  42. 42 Anonymous
    January 2, 2008 at 18:48

    How should a poor person like me express his griviences when my only chance has been robed when I’m seeing with my own eye?

  43. January 2, 2008 at 18:53

    Whoever is responsible for this chaos should b held responsible and accountable for the innocent deaths of innocent Kenya. I would request all the leaders to meet together to make a collective plea to all Kenyans and Kibaki step down publicly to avert further loss of lives of Kenyans and their properties

  44. 44 Susan
    January 2, 2008 at 18:55

    The main tribal problem is jealousy started by kenyata and his 1 party state an kikuyuization, who are very good businesmen and hard working. I’d like to warn the luo and kalengin that don’t stir them too much, I saw them in action in the maumau and recently mungiki and they can be horendously violent. Susan

  45. 45 Humphreys Chilemba
    January 2, 2008 at 18:57

    To whom are the people angry? To Kibaki? Then why burn other peoples’
    houses? Including burning people alive in a Church!

  46. 46 James
    January 2, 2008 at 18:57

    (Tribal Fighting In K)I am not a lou nor a kikuyu but am couht up in between the fight. James. In nrb.

  47. 47 Charles Simango - Lilongwe, Malawi
    January 2, 2008 at 19:04

    The kenya situation is a manifestation of the frustrations of the winner-takes-all democracy where patronage is the backbone of governance in africa. Winning an elections is a once-in-a-life-time chance for your kinsmen to get out of poverty. Losing means you and your lot will toil for the next five years – no jobs, no contracts, no handouts for your poor tribesmen. Hence a sitting government will do anything to stay in power.

    Lets face it, Africa is a tribal continent and it is a good thing – until we start applying democratic concepts that marginalise other tribes like winner-takes-all that we start having problems because it marginalises minority tribes althought they may constitute a majority as a group. Proportional representation is my solution for african countries. Everyone wins

  48. 48 Thomas
    January 2, 2008 at 19:14

    Kibaki has the key to end of all this. If he is very sure that he won then let him accept a recount. I think this will solve the problem

    Thomas, Uganda

  49. 49 Lucas
    January 2, 2008 at 19:15

    Hi.

    Im listening to the radio service ongoing.

    In my opinion the commentators are skirting around the real issue. Kenyans are Tribalists and that is an undeniable and indisputable fact. Just ask the average Kenyan what really influened their vote. In particiular the Kikuyu and the Luo, then look at the voting patterns and its clear to behold.

    Right now its kind of pointless to be asking about who one supports or why.
    I think were way beyond that now. The unity of the whole country and all we have worked for over last 40 years is at stake.

    I consider myself a Kenyan first and a Luo second. I chose who I supported and thats my business alone. I do not like what has happened and it is clear that the electoral process failed to live up to expectations. I am upset because Kenyans take to heart what is spewed out of politicians mouths without thinking that when its all said and done, the politicians from both sides of the divide will continue to live in luxury at the expense of their supporters who are busy butchering each other on the streets.

    Kenyans are also the masters of rumours. Half of what you have been hearing are rumours and this just serves to make the whole situation more volatile.

    The most important thing is for kenyans to realise that this violence is a result of US as Kenyans not coming to terms with the fact that we have allowed our leaders to use the tribal ‘carrot’ to lead us down this road to destruction.

    It is true that there is a Kikuyu elite who have greatly benefited from the incumbents rule. But the truth is that during the reign of the last President, Moi the same was true of the Kalenjin (Moi’s) tribe and the same during Kenyatta’s reign before him.

    So what is happening in Kenya is that Politicians have caucused their supporters into tribbal bases and as such they convince their supporters that with them in power they will have their needs ecomonic and otherwise taken care of. Normally this would happen though corrupt means and or nepotism.

    What we really immediately needed in kenya and it has been suggested before is a truth and reconcilliation commission where kenyans can address past grieviances percieved or real that have occured along tribal lines.

    Without this, it will not be possible for this country to come together in any meaningful and sustainable way. The result of this is that the political elite get richer, the gap between the rich and the poor continues to grow and the whole country becomes even more unstable and tribal based.

    There is no attempted genocide in Kenya by either side. Both just want to make the other look as insidious as possible which borders on the height of irresponsibility on both sides.

    With that in mind, it is simply not possible for us to know who really won the election but its clear that the Electoral Commission of Kenya was interferred with, to what extent, that remains unclear. That is really what needs to be addressed.

    Kenyans are notorious for cutting each other ‘down to size’. Instead of celebrating others success we have a perverse way of wanting others to fail so thet we can ‘get ahead’. Kenya is like a dysfunctional family and that must be understood accepted and changed.

    regards

    Lucas Mboya

  50. 50 Chernor Jalloh
    January 2, 2008 at 19:22

    Gentle men, Kenya is now in a state of political turmoil caused by Mwi Kibaki and his Kikuyus bloody groups,who have been all along butchering innocent people in slums. Africa was,is and will bleed forever if those greedy presidents keep on staying in power. As an African,Iam ashamed of seen my fellow African brothers surrounding a Church were so many women and children have to seek refuge for their lives and only to be burnt inside the Church it self.Those are places of worship and who ever goes there because of unrest in the country should be left alone.The International community has to dispatch delegates to try to coildown the crisis in Kenya.This is terrible,and those election results are now causing desolations and destructions in the country.And Kibaki doesnot want to go away.I urge all of my brothers and sisters in Kenya to remain calm and stop the killing of your own people in the name of ethcity and politics.You can obviously make a difference by organising a peaceful protest until Mr ODINGA becomes the real President of your country.Kenyans learn the lessions from Rwanda, Burudi DR Congo,Liberia and SierraLeone.May the souls of those innocent men women and children who were murdered in coldblood rest in peace.We Africans are looking forward to you.May you get what you want(change)without bloodshed.Thank you my brothers and sisters in Kenya.

  51. 51 Misocanpnist
    January 2, 2008 at 22:35

    In the BBC’s reporter’s comments from Kenya, I think I heard Karen Allen say ‘tin roofing sheets’ ; I’m sure she should have said ‘corrugated iron roofing sheets’. These are infact galvanized sheets, zinc is used to coat the iron, not tin.

    The events she reported on are tragic, however it helps to get all the facts correct when describing a scene.

    Perhaps Kate Addie or another member of the team at the BBc can pass on this information to Karen Allen.

  52. 52 steve
    January 2, 2008 at 22:41

    Not too long ago, WHYS was discussing freedom of speech. Well, looks like that wonder, peaceloving, tolerant, Saudi Government arrested a top dissident blogger. I know, this should be swept under the carpet because it isn’t about Israel, as everything is Israel’s fault.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/31/AR2007123101915.html

  53. January 3, 2008 at 04:16

    Kenya is a peaceful country by and large. If a question has been raised as to the validity of the outcome in the polls and the current govt feels they won fairly… DO A RECOUNT AND PROVE THAT YOU DID!! That will stop the feelings of anger that Kenyans have been cheated and everyone will go back to normal. There is no Kikuyu/Luo thing going on. The question is, DID YOU REALLY WIN? IF YOU DID, PROVE TO THE WORLD, RAILA AND KENYANS THAT YOU DID WIN AND ORDER A RECOUNT!!

  54. 54 Abdi
    January 3, 2008 at 04:25

    Am a Kenyan who for the first time in my life in the general elections. I voted for change. The biggest problem facing the country at the moment is tribal factor. We, who have voted for change won but the votes were rigged by the government through a corrupt one sided electoral commission whose commissioners have all been selected from one community, the kikuyu.

    They are the ones who pressurised the Electoral Commission Chairman, Samuel Kivuitu who in public was informed of the rigging claims and even given the proof for it in the full glare of the media and the general public, broadcasted live by the media stations in the country. The Kibaki government lost almost three quarters of all the seats that they held before the elections while almost all its ministers and assistant ministers lost their parliamentary seats, how then does its flag bearer becomes the winner? Its outright Robbery of democracy.

  55. 55 Ali Hassan Ahmed
    January 3, 2008 at 07:32

    There is no doubt that the election was fraudulent and a great sham! The government of Kibaki is thus in power illegitimately.

    The country has been plunged in to chaos by an inept and corrupt ECK Chairman who certified a stolen election. He still maintains that he doesn’t know who won the election! What BS and what nonesense!

    I hear many people say that Kibaki is a nice guy who’s been kidnapped and held hostage by his wife and a clique of powerful ministers who will cling on to power at whatever cost! What crap!

    If Kibaki is not in charge of this nation, then that means there’s been a coup de tat when we were all awake.

    It’s time Kibaki comes out in the open and talks. Kenyans have so many questions that need answers.

    If we let this regime get away with this blatant theft of the electorate’s mandate, we might as well migrate to another country as refugees! Who knows they might even change the constitution to have a life president and take us back to dictatorship.

    The ban on media and peaceful demos are pointers to what lies ahead.

    How we handle this crisis will determine our future as a nation. We also have to be careful what message we’re sendind the rest of Africa and the world.

    A good citizen should be prepared to pay the price of defending his country from the excesses of its government!

    Let’s all rise and resist this stolen vote verdict for the sake of our beloved nation.

    Ali Hassan, Nairobi, Kenya

  56. 56 Patriotic Kenyan
    January 3, 2008 at 11:29

    It is common knowledge that the polls were not free and fair. It also appears that both Raila Odinga and Mwai Kibaki are power-hungry politicians. What is currently taking place in the country is rivalry between two selfish individuals spilling over to the populace because of hate that was preached [especially by Mr. Odinga’s ODM] during the campaigns.

    Whether democracy has been “strangled” or not, Kenyans want peace. There is no point in having democracy restored without peace. It appears as though all that Mr. Odinga cares about is the presidency that he very much covets, regardless of what is happening to the common man. The general well-being of Kenyans is far more important that the dreams of a man who has been trying to get to power by all absurd means including a failed military coup in 1982 in which kenyans lost their lives. Mr. Odinga incites people to violence then uses that as an excuse, to appear to be a people’s advocate for democracy, citing that the violence is the people’s way of crying for justice. If Mr. Odinga should get into power, he will not be able to recover the lives that have been lost so far as well as those that are waiting to be lost. I think he should first seek to restore peace then look for a way to seek justice. His call for a million-man-march is in total disregard for the people’s safety and continuity of peace in Kenya. After the police announce that the demonstration is banned, he continues to call on Kenyans to ignore the police and put their lives on the line so he can gain sympathy and political mileage. This to me is not a fight for peace and democracy from Mr. Odinga but an inhumane greed for power. There are other avenues for Mr. Odinga to seek justice without having to have innocent lives being snuffed out of Kenyans.

  57. 57 kariuki07
    January 4, 2008 at 10:28

    THE ERA OF RIGGING IN MULTIPARTY DEMOCRACY KENYA
    In the one party dictatorship of the 1980s winners in a general election were declared losers and loser likewise made winners. It was the era when district commissioners were returning officers. The most notorious of them all was DC Mberia who declared Martin Shikuku a loser in Butere.He further declared Masinde Muliro a loser in Kitale East. Those were the days that the popular leaders among the electorate where ridiculed by the system.
    Justice and fair play was officially outlawed.
    Indeed little did Kenyans imagine that 2007 general election would declare a winner a loser. Many thought ECK was an independent and a credible organization. What happened on December 30th 2007 when Kibaki was declared the president of Kenya despite the fact that ECK inflated figures on his favor ushered into the nation a new dispensation a replica to the era of the one party dictatorship.
    In real sense Kenya lost her credibility nationally and internationally. ECK like our courts is manipulated by the executive. Its is outcome is geared to produce the results that favor the system. In that case Kenyans have no hope of shaping the destiny of their nation. They have to go by the verdict of corrupt systems: courts and ECK…
    The EU observers where shocked by two results for Molo where Kibaki garnered 50,175 at the tallying station while the ECK read out a different figure:75,474. The same was true for Juja where Kibaki garnered 48,293 while ECK gave him 100,390.Mwea followed the same script.PNU candidate scored 62,374 while the ECK inflated the figure to 82,374.
    Many PNU constituencies had their figures inflated at ECK.Such obvious manipulation of numbers to create a scenario of imaginary and fabricated statistics is a new phenomenon in Kenya . It is the reincarnation of Kanu’s man made democracy of the 1980s.
    What this means is: free and fair election is abstract in Kenya . Hence the frustrations that were poured throughout the nation by Kenyans are soon going to be the order of the day.
    ODM won 101 seats while PNU mere 31.How can a minority party fair in parliament?
    Churches were burnt down. Shops and markets were looted. People were hacked to death. Roads were blocked and lawlessness became the order of the day.
    Lives and property were destroyed in Nairobi , Mombasa , Kisumu, Kericho, Nakuru, Ravine, Eldoret and Kakamega.Many a chief had their houses and property razed down by irate and frustrated Kenyans.
    Indeed the burning down of Moi’s guest house at Mumberes in Koibatek district was a prove that Kenyans have no respect anymore for the powerful individuals who used the state machinery to accumulate their wealth.
    Kibaki’s second term will not be a bed of roses. His administration is detested and abhorred in all the opposition strongholds. His chiefs, his DOs, his DCs, and PCs will this time round be ignored and defied.
    He will have to craft a new formula to rule the unruly nation. He will have to devise a new prism to project his vision.
    He got full support from Gema communities but real rejection in non Gema regions.
    If he will ignore other regions and spear head his second term things will not be easy.
    First Gema communities in Diaspora will face real resistance. Their businesses will decline. The PNU supporters in ODM strongholds have been persecuted.Kisiis and Kalenjin who supported PNU have equally been persecuted. Their homes were burnt to debris.
    Indeed Kenya in three days went to the dogs. Insanity has taken the upper hand.
    Post election chaos have gone too far. Scooters, carpets, fridges and gadgets of high life were looted from supermarkets and showrooms.
    The way forward is simple. The ODM and PNU leadership should dialogue. They should bury their hatchets and reason together. National reconciliation should be sought with sincerity and truthfulness. The outright rigging in ECK should be acknowledged and condemned. Kenya leadership should seek the way of justice and righteousness. The ECK should be disbanded like the Kenya Air force in 1982 after the military coup.The ECK executed a civilian coup detat.
    In any case party primaries were flawed.ODM and PNU primaries were equally flawed just as the ECK was. Kenya must begin to build credible institutions. Credible courts, credible legislature and the executive. That is the way forward. Anything less than justice is disaster for the nation.
    Nobody will be spared in the mayhem and the cross fires.
    Let 2007 general election process be a learning experience for Kenya . That it is better to be fair and just than the vice versa. It is better to let transparency and righteousness rule the day.
    It is a folly to go the way of war and destruction. It is folly to push for lawlessness to achieve lawfulness. It is indeed better for our leaders across the divide to swallow their pride and reason together. Yes the mess was done by ECK.Yes the mess was done during party primaries.
    Kibaki is now the president of Kenya through flawed election. The actual winner Raila is the loser according to the ECK.For Raila to regain presidency means he has to fight it through the Kenyan courts which are recklessly flawed. The other option is to fight it out the way of Garang, Kagame, Kabila and Museveni-the way of bush war and rebel warfare.
    It is will be costly in terms of lives and rsources.When Obote rigged Uganda ’s elections in 1980 Museveni and his cohorts went to the bush. They formed NRA which fought a rebel war for six years. It was a costly affair.Garang too fought a rebel for over two decades costing 2million lives and eventually Garang himself was sacrificed after the long and bloody rebel war.Raila and the ODM team should come to terms that rebel war and mass action will not work.They should learn from Al Gore the US presidential candidate who lost unfairly to George Bush in 2000.Yes ODM won but their victory was stolen. For sake of national stability they should serve Kenyans as a strong opposition for the next five years. This is a painful and humiliating thing but it is the logical way. The road to freedom in Kenya and many African nations is tedious and deadly. It needs brave fighters. Fighters who are willing to be losers in a climate of victory. Fighters who are willing to pay the price of sacrifice for posterity. Great revolutions do not benefit the fighters. Its the posterity that are the beneficiaries. Mahatma Gandhi never lived to see the fruit of freedom in India . He was shot. Martin Luther too never lived to see the freedom of blacks in America . He too was shot dead.ODM’s victory was shot dead at the ECK HQ.The ODM should do what a single mother did in ancient Israel . The mother gave birth to a bouncing baby and so did her roommate. The roommate sat on her baby to death at night. She then exchanged her dead baby with her roommate. The case was brought before the wisest king of all time: Solomon.The verdict was simple. He demanded that the baby be cut into two. The mother real mother of the baby pleaded with King Solomon to spare the baby by letting her competitor to retain the baby. She reasoned that it was better for baby to be alive in the custody of her rival. On the other hand the rival welcomed the killing of the baby. Simply because she knew us was dead. The ODM zones are bleeding with bloodshed. Churches have been burnt. Innocent people have been killed and persecuted. If ODM is truly a peoples’ movement she must stop carnage and unnecessary loss of lives.
    Both America and Uganda have recognized Kibaki’s government. America is not comfortable with ODM’S association with the Muslims. Uganda is scared of Raila’s presidency.Raila a Luo like the Luos of Uganda are the enemies of Museveni’s presidency. Religion and ethnicity has turned US and Uganda against ODM’s victory. It is why Kibaki has taken a stern stance against any kind of negotiation with the opposition. If Kenya goes the way of Somalia there will be no victor. The rich with cash stashed in foreign banks will be the winners but not the poor.
    Is there a better way?

    Kariuki, aged 28, Nakuru, Rift valley, Kenya.

  58. 58 Mohammed Ali
    January 7, 2008 at 13:36

    Kibaki is a shame to democracy in Africa. He should step down to save kenya from disaster.


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