15
Oct
09

Is this entertainment gone too far?

soldiersIn one clip, an Israeli soldier takes aim at a smiling young girl and kills her.
In another, a bullet is fired by an Israeli soldier travelling in slow motion towards a Palestinian child.

These are scenes from a new Turkish television series called “Separation”, in which actors playing Israeli soldiers and Palestinians fight street battles in Jerusalem.

The Israeli government have called it “state-sponsored incitement” by TRT television’s “Separation” series. Europe Today are discussing this at 1700 BST. What do you think?


33 Responses to “Is this entertainment gone too far?”


  1. 1 jens
    October 15, 2009 at 16:03

    imagine this would be an israeli or american movie……..there would be wide spread riots in the muslim world.

  2. 2 steve
    October 15, 2009 at 16:06

    I think Jews are pretty used to being maligned and the blood libel stuff, so this isn’t new. But this is a sign that Ghul is taking the Turkish government towards a more Islamist agenda, which he denied he was doing. I really doubt Europe will let Turkey into the EU now that Turkey is becoming more extreme.

    Meanwhile, Turkey is responsible for a genocide of Armenians, and they have this tendancy to kill of Kurds as well…… Yet they have all the time to focus on Israel… Fascinating.. The Turks are the last people on earth to be pointing a finger at anyone.

  3. 3 Steve in Boston
    October 15, 2009 at 16:23

    It’s slander, libel, intentional provocation, and a clear attempt to incite violence. The Muslims have been doing this kind of thing for years in books, mosques, elementary school classes, and Palestinian television. Muslims see their citizens as a low-cost weapon of war, and this is what they do to get them agitated. It’s nothing less than what the mullahs do in mosques all over the West Bank and East Jerusalem on Friday nights. They send their flock out into the streets running and screaming and throwing rocks so they can get shot at and then run to the United Nations crying “war crimes.”

    You can forget peace in the Middle East with antics like this going on. I say to the Israelis: keep building in the West Bank and East Jerusalem because you apparently have nothing to lose by doing so, and nothing to gain by making concessions to those who want you eliminated.

  4. October 15, 2009 at 16:25

    I do not believe that we need Turkish TV soap operas inorder to know the actions of the Israeli occupation forces against innocent Palestinian civilians… All we need to do is to tune in to the BBC or Al Jazeera, or hey, how about trying to have a look at the Goldstone’s report ?! The horrific war crimes committed by the Israeli occupation forces against innocent Palestinian civilians (including women, children, and elderly people) are not some fictional Turkish TV soap opera, they’re well documented by well-respected and trust worthy international news organisations, and only those who get their news from Fox TV network aren’t aware of them… Well, I used to distaste Turkish TV soap operas in the past, but I may well start to change my mind now… With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad….

  5. 5 Tom K in Mpls
    October 15, 2009 at 16:33

    How about this, we get all the real militants from both sides. Then we wall off a big enough area and set up remote cameras. Then we put all the militants in there with all the small arms and ammo they could want. Then we tell them the last side alive wins all of both the Israeli and Palestinian areas and start filming.

    Finally it would be over with no innocent lives lost. Until it is over, I don’t care one bit about either side. They deserve each other.

  6. 6 steve
    October 15, 2009 at 16:52

    @ Lubna

    Given how the Turks have treated the Kurds and Armenians, do you think they have any business pointing the finger at Israel? And Hamas was completely innocent and didn’t do anything bad?

    • October 15, 2009 at 18:15

      Hello there Steve,
      Well, if a TV show portrays what the Turks have done to Kurds and Armenians, then I’ll have no problem with it what so ever…. With my love… Yours forever, Lubna in Baghdad…

  7. 8 Anthony
    October 15, 2009 at 16:54

    OK, let me get this straight, so if we draw a cartoon picture of Mohammad with a bomb, then we and those around us will get blown up by a bomb. But showing Jews smiling and having fun killing little kids, that’s OK?

    -Anthony, LA, CA

  8. 9 jens
    October 15, 2009 at 16:59

    Lubna,

    so you are telling us that you would start watching turkish soap operas now, because they show this kind of stuff?

  9. 11 Bert
    October 15, 2009 at 17:05

    I think that Turkey will have a long and difficult journey on their quest to join the EU. And the EU rightly should resist their efforts.

  10. 12 steve
    October 15, 2009 at 17:38

    http://www.kurdmedia.com/article.aspx?id=15346

    I wonder what would be the reaction to an Israeli TV show about Turkey killing Kurds, or of the Turkish genocide of Armenians?

    You think going Islamist is going to get you into the EU? Not even the Europeans are that suicidal and stupid.

  11. 13 VictorK
    October 15, 2009 at 17:43

    It’s clearly anti-Jewish propaganda, but I’m aware of worse from other Muslim countries. It’s part of a tradition of Jew-hating films and soap operas. Yes, it’s entertainment for those who enjoy that kind of thing.

    This is only a matter of horror to those who expect Western standards of conduct in an area like this (non-racist, basic decency, not inciting hatred and violence, etc) from non-Western cultures.

    I wonder if the US will continue to exhort the EU to admit Turkey, or if the latter will continue to be held up as the poster-child for the unicorn of ‘moderate Islam’.

  12. 14 Ibrahim in UK
    October 15, 2009 at 18:01

    There are much more horrific images of real life on the internet and youtube, footage which the BBC dare not mention let alone show. Lookup an interesting peice called “Dispatches Unseen Gaza.”
    How can you tell the story of an ongoing conflict if you leave out the victims.

    @jens
    There are countless US films that depict Arabs as anti-semetic terrorists killing Westerners for fun (along with graphic footage of a suicide bombing). Many films showing Russians, Chinese, Europeans, Americans, South Americans, Africans etc all committing evil acts of murder and torture. It seems it is still taboo in the West to have a film that shows Israelis or Jews in a bad light.

  13. 15 steve
    October 15, 2009 at 18:12

    @ Ibrahim

    Can you show me a movie in the past 15 years that has presented any Arab in a negative light? Remember Clear and Present Danger? The movie producers changed it from being arab terrorists to being eastern european. In Die Hard movies, the terrorists are always Germans…. The terrorists are always germans or Russians in western movies..

    There are plenty of movies that show Jews in a negative light. Once Upon a Time in America was about jewish gangsters growing up in the early 20th century. They killed lots of people. In Band of Brothers, Mark Schwimmer plays Lt. Sobel, a jewish Lieutanant that everyone in Easy Company hated. In every holocaust movie they show the Kapos/Sonderkommandos and other Jews that worked with the nazis to either police, or took possessions from Jews before they were killed.

    In a movie called The Counterfeiters, the Nazis used expert Jewish counterfeiters to make fake british money to destroy the British economy. The Jews complied to stay alive. Not exactly postive.

    Perhaps you’re choosing not to watch these movies?

  14. 16 gary
    October 15, 2009 at 18:12

    The visual arts are a propagandist’s most useful tools, and one’s enemies will use every tool they have available. Though most propaganda is untrue, it is wise to behave in ways that allow the ordinary citizen in an unfriendly country to uncover the deception.
    d

  15. 17 steve
    October 15, 2009 at 18:18

    OOps, meant Sum of All Fears, not clear and present danger.

  16. 18 Bert
    October 15, 2009 at 18:22

    Ibrahim, no one in his right mind condones the kiiling of innocent children.

    And:

    No one in his right mind condones years and years of lobbing rockets into inhabited areas in Israeli territory, or in any other country.

    No one in his right mind condones flying airplanes into buildings deliberately

    No one in his right mind condones sending suicide bombers into busy market places.

    No one in his right mind condones bombings inside mosques.

    No one in his right mind condones taking hundreds of school children hostage inside their school.

    No one in his right mind condones bombs placed in urban mass transit systems.

    If movies depict deliberate acts that are being done every single day, that’s hardly “propaganda.” If instead a movie portrays tragic mistakes as if they were deliberate acts, that’s definitely propaganda.

    I can tell you without hesitation that Israle would quickly be demonized if they started carrying out such horrors on a regular basis, on their own people or on others.

    • October 15, 2009 at 18:30

      Hello there Bert… Just try to read the report of the internationally respected South African Jewish judge Richard Goldstone on the war crimes committed during the Gaza war… If you guys down there in the US haven’t heard of it before then that’s OK, try googling it…

  17. October 15, 2009 at 18:24

    And just for clarification, there’s a huge difference between anti-Israeli occupation approach and anti-Jewish approach… To me this Turkish soap opera is everything but anti-Jewish, and yet it has a powerful anti-Israeli occupation approach, and that’s why I like it…

  18. 21 VictorK
    October 15, 2009 at 18:30

    @Ibrahim: I don’t think Hollywood nowadays is as far ranging in the ethnic villains it shows. Arabs tend to be less typecast than they were (they were heroes in the last series of ’24’, for example). Serbs, Russians, Southerners and neo-Nazis continue to be acceptably cast as villains, often played by British actors for some reason. But you’re right about Jews not often being portrayed as villains. Didn’t Brando say much the same thing, and more, a few years ago?

    But given some of the genuinely horrific images that do exist of Palestinian victims (which I have seen), and harrowing tales of their treatment, why do Muslims so often prefer to deal in overwrought fiction of the kind that fails as propaganda (with non-Muslims) and discredits those who think it entertainment (and the Palest. cause)? Seems to be a dearth of sober, intelligent documentaries about this kind of thing from independent Muslim broadcasters? The on-going court-approved seizure of Palestinian property is something that I find shocking because of its cold-blooded cynicism. Apparently not sensational enough for Muslims to make films or docs about it, though it’s probably more significant than the things dealt with in this Turkish film. Odd.

  19. 22 Wendy
    October 15, 2009 at 18:37

    I think a few people in the fashion industry should not be allowed to dictate what is appropriate looking for the majority of people. These images of women with skeletal figures are unreal. However if we continue to buy these magazines with these unreal images then the industry will continue to publish them. So we need to put our money where our mouths are and boycott these magazines that publish only women that do not reflex our reality.

    Wendy.

  20. 23 Jennifer
    October 15, 2009 at 18:41

    Is this entertainment going to far?

    NO. This is disgusting, warped, pushing of what amounts to a political agenda whereby Israel is big bad wolf and palestinians are innocent “victims”. It will only fuel misinformation. I would question the stability of anyone who would watch this show….it seems liberal;, playing to feelings (a smiling little girl) rather than showing truth. Horrible!

    This show will do nothing but foster hatred and create more violence.

  21. 24 jens
    October 15, 2009 at 19:39

    what shocked me a little, was Lubna’s comment that she watched turish soaps, but that the show israeli soldiers laughing will killing palstiniens she would start watching these soaps, because they are apparently showing “nothing but the truth”.

    the fact that some movies show muslims as evil people does not make the turish soap right or justifiable. you know the old “two wrongs not making one right”

    • October 16, 2009 at 11:11

      Again Jens, please try to read the Goldstone’s report… I am really so sorry if the Israeli occupation soldiers are perceived in the US as people of good will stuffed with warmth, love, peace, and delicious dark chocolate, but time to wake up buddy, b/c that’s not the truth at all… I really do not know if you guys down there in the US have heard of something called “The Goldstone’s report”, conducted by the internationally well respected South African JEWISH judge and prosecutor Richard Goldstone about the war crimes committed during the Gaza war, try googling it Jens, or just try to tune in to the BBC or Al Jazeera English as a change… Those guys i.e. the Israeli occupation soldiers are occupiers who have committed war crimes against humanity, period. Anything can be expected from someone who has committed war crimes against humanity, also period.

  22. 26 Chinaman
    October 15, 2009 at 20:55

    Chinese have been portraying as nerds , sidekicks and China as the evil empire since movies were invented. So what? Hollywood pays big bucks.

  23. 27 viola
    October 15, 2009 at 20:56

    As long as Israel is in knee-jerk fashion viewed by its middle-eastern neighbors as being illegitimate, evil and deserving of annihilation, all such so-called entertainment must be viewed as attempts to make hatred of Israel, and infidels in general, all about Israel and never about the self. Propaganda.

    If the producers of the television show choose to move their audiences to a new level of understanding about the conflict with Israel, it could be about education. If its focus is always to show Israel as evil it will remain self-serving, divisive propaganda. They have that choice and we must learn to distinguish between propaganda and truth. It’s not always easy to do that.

    I recall an Israeli English-language movie called, if I remember right, “The Lion of Judah”, which was a complex, nuanced story about an Israeli assassination team launched in response to the Munich massacre of Israeli athletes. It showed the people they targeted as human beings rather than heinous, cold-blooded monsters. It probably contributed to the ongoing internal debate about Palestine and Israel which I seem to perceive, admittedly from afar, to be taking place in Israel. It articulated the concern about the effect these kinds of actions have on the psyche of a culture that values ethics.

  24. 28 scmehta
    October 16, 2009 at 07:31

    The menace of intolerance and extremism has had a sadistic mental effect on some elements of our societies around the world.

  25. 29 Ibrahim in UK
    October 16, 2009 at 10:23

    @steve: Look up “Reel Bad Arabs”. A study in nearly a thousand films that show Arabs in a bad light.

    @Bert: The horrors committed every day for the past 60 years by Israel in their 60 year occupation of Arab land are well documented by Palestinians and even Israeli human rights groups. The recent report by Richard Goldstone (also Jewish btw), should provide some insight. However, people “in their right mind” continue to spend billions in tax dollars protecting Israel while justifying and condoning this behaviour.
    The negative stereotyping of Arabs has been happening well in advance of 9/11 and the War on Terror and daily suicide bombings. Ironically, it is only since 9/11 that Holloywood has started including a token Arab good guy (who loves Western culture) and helps the “good westerner” to kill all the rest of the “evil arabs”.

  26. October 16, 2009 at 11:15

    Also again, the show didn’t portray Jews, it portrayed Israeli occupation soldiers, and there’s a huge difference between the two portrayals…

  27. 31 Ibrahim in UK
    October 16, 2009 at 11:16

    @VictorK
    I agree, Muslims don’t yet know how to communicate their story to a Western audience. I think this has alot to do with Arab story culture traditionally being overly dramatic and emotional, so any story (including the Palestine-Israel conflict) will appear over-the-top. Nor is there the type or scale of Hollywood productions. There are also numerous obstacles to onsite filming of anything pro-Palestinian since Israel controls and blocks access. It’s an uphill task, but some films like “Salt of this Sea” do manage. Until this situation improves, only bits of the stories will be heard, like the 60 minutes show on the settlers.

    PS: I’ve also noticed the strange association of villains having British accents. Even the Orcs in Lord of the Rings!

  28. 32 NSC London
    October 16, 2009 at 12:01

    I think the Arabs have communicated thier “story” pretty well. 9/11, Madrid, 7/7 were a pretty clear communication of the Arab story. Fitna is also a pretty excellent telling of the Arab story.

    To Lubna, I think you raise several valid points. I do also hope the soap opera shows Hamas using civilians and children as shields, intentionally drawing Israeli fire on a UN school, etc. I’m all for showing “nothing but the truth” and the truth is that both sides fight pretty dirty and there is no right or wrong side in that conflict. One thing I do know is that at least Israel isn’t part of a global effort to subvert western democracy and replace it with a primitive caliphate, so forgive me for going a little easier on poor old Israel.

    As for Turkey joining the EU, its never going to happen. Western Civilisation and Islam are not compatible, they never will be. There is no motivation for the EU to admit Turkey, they first applied in the late 80’s. Turkish secularists have all my sympathy though, it must be difficult for an intelligent person to live with an Islamic regime.

  29. 33 steve
    October 16, 2009 at 18:07

    @ Ibrahim, by your own language, you refuse to recognize Israel’s right to exist. You state 60 years of occupation. Israel has occupied the WB and Gaza for only 42 years, since in 1967. Before that, they were occupied by Jordan and Egypt, respecitively… How do you expect peace besides expecting the Israelis to lay down and die given you don’t even think the country should exist from your own words, saying 60 years of occupying arab land…

    And Wrong again, that movie about martial law in NYC, with Denzel Washington and Bruce Willis, with Tony Shaloub, called The Siege, was made in 1998, and it wasy an anti discrimination movie, where the arabs were protrayed as good guys…


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