I’m sure most of you will have seen the incredible story of the plane that crash landed in the Hudson River. We’re hoping to get a couple of survivors, rescuers or eyewitnesses to come on to the show, and spend ten or so minutes hearing their stories of what’s being called the ‘miracle on the Hudson. If you’d like to ask them a question, post it here.
But on to Gaza – we seem to be inching towards a ceasefire, but that’s just a first step. What needs to change to to ensure a lasting peace?
Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev has said that the Gaza offensive could be in its “final act”, and some commentators argue that Israel will have to end it before the inauguration of Barack Obama next Tuesday. There have been many ceasefires before in this long running conflict, but they haven’t brought long term peace.
So what’s the ONE thing you think needs to change in order to achieve that?
We’ve talked a lot about Gaza over the past few weeks, so to avoid covering the same ground we’re not going to talk about the need for Hamas to stop rocket attacks, or Israel stopping its shelling – it’s pretty obvious that a ceasefire is going to involve both.
We’d like you to look beyond that. It was interesting listening to the show on Wednesday and the discussion about the important of history – for a lasting peace, do both sides have to let go of the past and concentrate on the future? Should Hamas recognise Israel’s right to exist? Should the EU and US no longer call Hamas a terrorist organisation? Is Hamas and Fatah sorting out their differences the key? What about Iran and its role?
Let us know the top thing that you think needs to change.
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I surely think it’s hamas that has to change itself. After about 1000 deaths only, Hamas started talking about stopping rocket attacks. Hamas should learn that it did not achieve anything by resorting rocket attacks and try to work for a settlement of the issue through negotiations.
This is way too easy to answer.
The Islamic Clerics need to stop preaching hate and issuing incessant Jihads and Fatwas against Jews, Christians and other religions and accept religious plurality.
Islam must mature to from the 7th Century to the 21st Century.
Everything. Accountability and forgiveness need to be the foundation of the future. Israel needs to follow their agreements, stop stealing Palestinian land, end the blockade of the Gaza concentration camp, stop targeting the UN, red cross, humanitarian aid, children and other civilians, eliminate their weapons of mass destruction, and stop making wars with its neighbors. Palestine and Lebanon needs to find the yahoo hill billies shooting home made unguided rockets into the fields of Israel, and prosecute them for violating Israel air space. The rest of the middle east needs to stop selling the hill billies the rocket parts.
What is needed is a period of time when a multinational force stands between Palestinians and Israeli’s. It needs the same set up as in Cyprus. No longer should one side be able to dominate the other. Passage of aid must be controlled by this force and not used as a weapon like Israel do. Israel shoud be TOLD how it is going to be not asked and America should finally stop being the reason that Arab children are contantly being mutilated in the name of a ‘good cause’.
The one thing that must change for there to be a lasting peace is the belief on the part of many Palestinians (and Iranians, Syrians, Lebanese Hezbolla, etc.) that Israel does not have the right to exist. Until that view changes there can be no lasting peace.
Hamas is political and armed force that carries behind it the support of Iran and Syria. It can’t continue to be marginalized for ever by leading international players, especially the EU and the USA.
Israel and the US need to improve their relations with Syria and Iran which are using Hamas as a tool in their ongoing enmity with it. As such these can exert their influence on Hamas to change its tactics and to recognize Israel.
As long as the international players in the Middle East policies can’t agree on a strategy to put an end to the conflict between Hamas and Israel and as long as Iran is still seen as the biggest threat to the survival of Israel and the US interests in the this region, there will be a continuation of the conflict in the absence of reconcilable approaches that can save the face of the defeated party and guarantee the interests of the victorious one.
Everyone in the region must embrace atheism and the fact that there is no cruel, immature, invisible man in the sky called “God” or “allah”.
Both Hamas and Iran need to recognize Israel as a sovereign state, There is no way to change that fact and they should get over it and move on to a relationship that is more constructive.
Israel needs to respect international law and shut down the illegal settlements and confine itself within the UN recognized boundary. They need to treat the Palestinians with respect and dignity and through their actions recognize Palestinians right to exist.
Labeling groups as terrorists doesn’t have much meaning in this conflict since both sides commit terrorist acts…
Hamas Militants commit acts of terrorism against the citizens of Israel and the state of Israel commits acts of terrorism against palestinian citizens albeit in much greater propertion. So both are terrorists.
Dan,
Bless you. I agree!
For there to be lasting peace there need to be compromise and substantial trust of living up to agreements and respecting the existence of both sides, Palestine and Israel through international oversight.
I don’t think it will fix . As a programe on World service this week strongly suggested , Israel is in the near future going to have a water crisis . This can only intensify their need to control.
I can,t see any deal happening . Until we in the West get to see the bigger picture and make changes to stablise world economy through the socialisation of capital and productiuon , then why should anything over there change .
The world is actually going to fracture andf split up and war will insue . Lets see WHYS start focusing on the bigger questions which connect and determine reality for us all . Little sound bites from your usual politicians and proffessors amount to nothing more than precious time wasted.
I have a solution that may be too simple…
How about, instead of each group being isolated and hidden behind their own defenses, there is a deliberate exchange of people in work or school situations.
I suggest that all schools and hospitals be in the border regions.
Consider this; if schools were filled with students from both sides, would either side bomb them?
And if hospitals held (and employed) both Palestinians and Israelis, do you think they would be attacked?
All the rhetoric and policy statements fade away in light of actual people working and studying together.
First and foremost, perspective. You can not deal with a single Palestinian government as if they are to be held accountable for every rogue criminal act that comes from with in its borders. They are a fractured group, with multiple leaders and varying patriotism.
From the Palestinian side, the current recognized leaders need to say they are either “opposed to these criminal activities” or they side with them. If they support the shelling of Israelis villages, then that government needs removed and a new one willing to condemn them needs to emerge. Then help them police those rogue elements.
Define if this is a war betwen states or is it that Israel is bombing its ghettos?
For all, there was this plan for lasting peace I read once. Something about forgiveness, tolerance, and self sacrifice were part of it. Also, not killing, lying to, cheating, stealing, or pudding wrestling with your neighbors wife were important. Something about if you don’t want somebody to do something to you, then don’t do it to them.” It was a while ago, I don’t remember where I read it. It sounded like a really good plan for peace though
There will be a lasting peace when trade, business, commerce and education replace rockets, suicide bombs, and booby traps. Moderation has to replace extremism. Prosperity has to replace poverty.
The Palestinians have got to drop their “I’ve been cheated and mistreated” grudge mentality and get on with life. A partnership with Israel would be a major boon to both peoples.
Palestinians in the US are well regarded as bright and industrious. The West Bank under the Palestinian Authority is undergoing an economic revival. Just google it if you don’t believe me.
The problem is Hamas. The Arab world realizes this, and it won’t be long before Hamas is gone. Israel would not have gotten this far without silent Arab consent.
I think there should be a dual approach to this;
Firstlt, Hamas has to accept that Israel is their neighbour and should be treated as such. They have to accept that reality and live with it. Even in the Holy Quran it is stated there that you should treat your neighbour as you would treat your self.Also they should have to accept Israelis have no where else to go. It would be unfair to ask Israel to leave all these land Palestine are claiming to be theirs. Palestines should stop preaching hate and learn to live with the harsh reality that Israel is their neighbours.
On the other hand, Israel should stop over reacting to what Hamas does. They should stop encroaching the lands of palestines. Keep your cool and stop all this bombings in the name of eradicating Hamas. They have to know that they can never cleanse Hamas. Every Palestanian is a member of Hamas.
Finally there should be willingness from both parties to end the conflict. Once this is done there will be everlasting peace in the middle east.
Israel commonly cites refusal of it neighbors to acknowledge it’s right to exist as sufficient reason to not engage them in dialog, while ignoring the fact that conversation is the only way to alter its neighbors’ opinions. Their neighbors respond in kind. The way forward is clear; conversations and accommodations amongst the living, or the silence of death. Febrile patriotic ranting aside, for all biological systems; untimely death equals failure.
g
In Northern Ireland it took an attack of unprecedented scale (Omagh) for both side to figure enough was enough and move towards peace. I fear that both sides in Gaza are entrenched so much within their own and each others propaganda that neither can back down until a truly horrific incident occurs. Given the horrors that have already happened I dread to think what that might be.
It is justice.
As long as injustice and the double standard exist, violence and suffering will continue.
Having said that, I am afraid that the same mistake is going to happen again now: in order to start “clean”, there should be an honest and “clean” investigation for what has happened in Gaza and make it public. Accordingly, there should be a punishment.
Whoever ignored the Security Council’s resolutions, should be punished. Whoever acted as if it is above the law should be punished. Whoever caused civilian’s casualties, should be punished, and the more the stronger the punishment should be. Whoever caused distraction should be punished; the more the stronger the punishment should be. Whoever violated the Geneva Conventions, should be punished.
It is the Justice. The International Community should not forget or keep aside what has happened in Gaza in the last three weeks (in order to start “clean”) while keep remembering the 8 years of rockets before. It is “the important of history”.
The Blind Justice is what we all need to live in peace. Whoever ignores what a *blind justice* would state and refuses to comply, does not deserve to live on this planet in peace.
Hi Dan
Reyr January 16, 2009 at 15:04
I am with you.
We are getting our first glimpses of inside Israel from BBC Persian TV: Iranian journalists talking to Iranians in Israel on the Gaza conflict. The parallel between ultra-orthodox conservatives on either side is obvious. Tone down the rhetoric, “Jihad and Fatwa” as you say or fascism under the cover of Judaism, or ultra-nationalism under the cloak of Christianity must end.
Unless prelates, clerics, rabbis and evangelist preachers withdraw to their seminaries and niches there will be no rule of law, civil rights, liberty or freedom anywhere in the world.
Let’s be honest — the governments of men simply do not work. They have never succeeded in finding permanent solutions to humanity’s problems. They lack the answers to mankind’s greatest questions. It has not yet been given to men to understand the path to peace—or, for that matter, the path to abundance, happiness, harmony, health and prosperity. No wonder the great thinkers, leaders, educators and scientists have failed miserably in their quest for world peace. God has not yet revealed to the vast majority of humanity the solution to its unending wars.
What needs to change for a lasting peace in the region is not a palatable option. Either one side or the other is gone completely.
Israel will never back down in its stance or its approach to dealing with Palestinian acts against it and on the other hand a group like Hamas will never back down from its methods. This is one of those intractable conflicts that has no end and no winners. It is a matter of attrition and an all or nothing situation.
Perhaps if Fattah can regain control in Gaza or the people in Gaza decide they cannot ever hope to see Israel give in to rockets and oust Hamas themselves the situation as it is today may change. But it is doubtful that Hamas will ever pack up and end on its version of a solution.
What needs to change? Outlawing religion would be a good start.
I’m afraid I don’t see a lasting peace right now. I think Hamas would have to change its charter calling for the destruction of Israel, and Israel would have to leave Gaza, and there isn’t enough trust on either side for that.
I have a question that may sound very stupid of me, but I heard Condoleeza Rice say in a short soundbyte that Hamas took over in a violent/bloody coup 18 months ago? Something like that? I thought Hamas was elected by the people? If Hamas was elected by the people, they are legitimate and Israel cannot marginalize them, right?
“It takes two to tango”, as they say, and placing total responsibility on one side or the other is missing the point. It is clear who the aggressor is in this instance, but, that is only in response to past aggression from the other side. The only hitch in the balance of negotiations seems to be that one side (Gaza), is under siege from a superior force and being slaughtered en masse, with little resource and/or options to prevent it. I am quite sure that Israel will continue its current campaign regardless of a Hamas ceasfire, because, Israelis feel justified as the victims.
One can only hope that Israel will stop short of testing its American made nukes on Gaza. Though, I wonder if that would even be enough to stop the rabid supporters of Israel from calling themselves “victim”.
Islamic extremism is abhorrent, for sure, but, it is born of extreme situations that would not exist, were it not for the selfishness of those who wish to suppress and control everything that they fear or do not understand. Both sides are guilty of this. None are blessed in such a conflict, save for the children…….
What needs to change to ensure a lasting peace?
INDEPENDENCE !!!!
(Sovereign state of your own)
bjay
RE “” What needs to change to to ensure a lasting peace? “”
—————————————————————————————————————————-
————— Comprehensive Islamic diplomatic recognition of Israel with no pre-conditions like the ridiculous return to 67 borders demand of Saudi Arabia.
Followed by a planned move to an elective government running the various states. Keep the monarchy if necessary as did Jordan, but allow the people some say in how the state is run.
Grant citizenship with full rights and responsibilities to Palestinian refugees relocated to these areas.
Won’t solve every problem, but it puts the ball back into the courts of the Israelis and Palestinian leaderships to work out a 2 state solution.
Warning: Don’t hold your breath.
.
There seems to be confusion between ‘peace’ and ‘lack of gunfire/bombs etc’
The focus of the conversation has been the tit for tat ,back and forth between who shot rockets or who killed civilians. Absent from the discussion is the context of occupation. Israeli citizens can dream, travel, plan, work, pursue a career etc etc. according to their own talents and abilities. But the personal dreams, aspirations, educations, economic life,travel, even food choices of the Palestinians in Gaza and the west bank are contained, delimited, and narrowed by a country that allows any Jew from anywhere in the world ‘the right of return’ but does not allow Palestinians the hope of seeing the house they were born in,
I am a supporter of Israel who recognizes the sad fact that until the corrosive and soul killing effect of occupation is taken into account, no amount of military power will secure their future. The destiny of the two peoples are linked
As I recall, Sadam Housein was paying $40,000 each to suicide bombers to go into Israel. He is not doing that any longer. Iran is pushing for the total obliteration of Israel. Hamas has been launching rockets into Israel for years. Where was all of the fuss then. Was there any sense of urgency at the UN to put a stop to it? Were there hysterical cries for a cease fire then? Now that Israel has finally had enough, everyone is in a dither. I say, form a blockade to keep meddlers out and let Israel finnish the job. Don’t let Hamas be saved by the bell again. This is not a prize fight, it is a fight for survival. We should diplomatically tell Iran and other nations to keep their noses out of it – OR ELSE. These villains have been playing on our misguided sense of fair play and sympathy for too long.
I just listened to David Grossman’s letter to Obama and I agree with his expectation of Obama to resolve or at least have a significant impact on the peace process in order to bring about a successful two state solution. Going by Obama’s ability to have overcome a deeply rooted legacy of racial hatred between blacks and whites in his own country, Grossman believes that Obama can apply his bi/multi-focal look on the Irael and Palestinian crisis, distinguishing him from his predecessors. I agree with hime and believe that this an create a new and necessary lens through which the international community can look at the situation more objectively. I hope that Obama will re-evaluate America’s interest in Israel and begin a new chapter in which America fully engages itself with the international community, respecting, endorsing and abiding with UN peace resolutions.
Just read the Hamas charter, the genocidal bloodlust and Jew hatred, then you will understand why Israel has to respond to this jihadist aggression. Hamas and their ilk are the problem.
Will the BBC post this, or is this comment not politically correct in the myopic eyes of the BBC
Carthage is so two millennia ago.
“War,” wrote 6th century BCE military mind Sun Tzu, “is of vital importance to the state.” True enough for his times, and for the majority of ours. However, I think that human civilization as a whole is just now starting to move away from seeing war as a means of advancing political agendas.
Lasting peace can only be brought by nations and organizations that can move ahead in their development—that is, those who can grow up from what we can only hope will soon be thought of as more ‘primitive’ doctrines of violence.
Extremism in any form, of course, will be the end of us all. The great Arab writer al-Ma’arri wrote that “The inhabitants of the Earth are of two sorts: one with religion, but no brains, and the other with brains, but no religion.”
Thomas Oliver,
At the same time Saddam was doing that, Israel was taking their land, cutting of supplies, starving their children, and shooting people then trying to prove their guilt later. Part of the time, of course, the US was supplying Saddam with money and weapons to fight off Iran. Israel just celebrated only its 60th anniversary after all.
The point is that if people persist in this kind of finger pointing then peace will never be achieved. The only solution in that case would be to leave the whole place, and let nobody have it. Or more conclusively, turn it to glass and let nobody want it.
In the past Arafat reneged on a peace deal he made with Barak, they shook hands in agreement but later changed his mind. Since then there are two entities, the West Bank and Gaza so that the Palestinians are no longer united under one government. There has to be one united government to negotiate peace in the region. The present situation is aggravated by Iran and Syria who supply arms and money to Hamas to continue their terrorist ways, regardless of the suffering of their innocent people who live in Gaza.
It is necessary to block the supply of arms to Hamas, so that both the West Bank and Gaza are united under one government to reach a peace agreement. Hamas must change their ways and accept the fact that they cannot destroy Israel which is wishfull thinking. The main danger is Iran trying to develop neuclear weapons, in that they openly stated they intend to destroy Israel, something has to be done one way or another so that they do not succeed in doing so.
The definition of peace needs to be defined for both Israel and Hamas. That means Hamas stops firing rockets and becomes accepting of there neighbor. Iran & Syria need to step back and stop providing weapons and fighters. Israel needs to allow aid into Gaza and treat there neighbors as human beings. Both need to stop being stubborn and embrace ideologies other than hatred and killing.
Violence begets violence and hatred begets hatred. We are all born as loving human beings and violence is taught by those who are supposed to be teaching goodness. Go back to the beginning and repair the past actions.
Dee Kieft
The first step towards peace is having dialogue. There can be no peace without communication. Once this is underway, then each side coming to an understanding of the others view will lead to compromise and ultimately, lasting peace.
A cease-fire must be comprehensive and must be applicable in both Gaza and the West Bank. This means cessation of Palestinians launching rockets against Israel and that Israel stops assassinating Palestinian leaders. Also it means that Israel stops building more settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories and annexing their land. The cease-fire should not be a cover for the perpetual continuation of Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands.
Just full respect of human rights for everybody (even basic human rights like the right to live in a peaceful environment and to have your life -and access to food, education and health services- protected by an occupying power) and respect for a long since adopted resolution of the UN that NO settlements are allowed on occupied land. Starting from THAT, I advocate a ONE state solution, at worst under the shape of a confederation. Otherwise, how do you create a Palestinian state out of two bits separated by 40 km of a foreign state ?!… I’d start with some decent town-planning, and I’d organise basic infrastructure and facilities (like water systems, energy sources, airports, trains, etc.) IN COMMON (so that both sides would have an interest in keeping them working).
Stop the massive arms shipments from the USA, UK and other merchants of death to Israel. Simple.
Hamas certianly thinks it a religious conflict. -to the extent of persecuting Arab Christians- Lasting peace means absolute dominance of Israel until Palestinians are no longer used as proxies by Islamic Jihadists. No Palestinian leader, no matter how moderate, can effectively act as a partner in peace until the population that they hope to govern, becomes less radical.
“dominance by” rather
The UN and the Security Council need to be resolved, or else, reformed to be useful. There should be no Veto “Right” anymore; it is absolutely absurd. The concept of some parties having the Veto “right” is against what the UN is supposed to stand for. If the “UN” does not act as a *United* Nations–all the nations, it should think of doing something else. I am absolutely not being fictitious here; bear with me would you:
The UN building, its employees and the enormous resources it has should be more than enough for the “UN” to buy a big deserted island, furnish it and offer a free flight or any other way of transportation to the two parties that have unresolved issues and decided to fight with each other. Actually, only few rules needed like: The “UN” agrees to take them back (for free) to their countries if they decided not to start fighting, but if they do, they should be left for the rest of their lives on that island. In this case, there is a hope that the people who had been abandoned there might be of good help to the next two parties arriving and convince them to just go home.
If I were a member of the Hamas party, I would be asking myself “If heaven is so terrific for marters, why are the Imam hiding behind walls in other, safer countries?” “Why would they ask me to sacrifice my life and the life of my family for a cause they are not willing to fight for themselves?”.
“Are they cowards?”
Surely, the quickest way to peace would be to force the US to not give Israel $3Bil dollars a year in military aid?
Or to stop the US consistently using their veto power to block UN interventions into Israel’s blatant war crimes?
Or to force the Israelis to move black to 1947 borders and take down the huge prison walls they erected around Gaza?
Linda brings up a good point..perhaps there is need for a radical approach. In the midst of this attack if Israel had to unexpectedly withdraw and send a strong message for peace, it could stir up a strong sense of responsibility amongst Palestinians (I don’t include Hamas). If this happens and public opinion can change (again I emphasize the importance of effective communication of this unprecedented gesture to the populous), the same people will ensure that their elected Govt does not fire rockets to break this truce.
Why does Israel have to take the first step? Because they are the more powerful entity in this conflict hence have the inherent capability to make a stronger statement for peace.
What happens if this experiment fail? There is not much to lose for either parties. In the worst case there will be a few days of peace and if the situation doesn’t change, Israel would gain lots of International good will for having tried to make peace.
Sid
San Diego
Its funny how most of the focus is on Islamic Jihad, and Islam in general, as it appears from this comments and that of the so called “pundits”. The caller who mentioned extremism on the other side, on the Israeli side, is on the right track. Lets not forget that the Haganah was a terrorist organization as far as the international community is concerned, especially with their attack of the David Hotel and the British officials there. We should look at all parts of the picture, not pick and choose. The Palestinians are a people who have been kicked out of their homes and pushed back, and continue to be pushed back by settlers taking over what little lands they’ve managed to keep. That is a serious issue that should be addressed. It is the continuing hardships that the Palestinians are forced to live in that is causing the continuous festering of violence and injustice.
… and all those attacking Islam, or religion and not people’s actions and ideology of power and injustice- seriously, do some research and realize that Palestine is a diverse society, and that if we’re going to attack religion, we might as well include Christianity in the picture.
This notion, expressed by one of the callers (Kuswei?), that Hamas is democratically elected and therefore they can’t be called terrorists and must be negotiated with in good faith has got to stop. Its nonsense. If a people elect warmongering nut-jobs, those leaders remain warmongering nut-jobs. (Many around the world argue that the USA did exactly that in 2004). Hamas is dominated by people who believe in, and is founded upon principles affirming, the destruction of Israel and the subjugation of non-Muslims to Islamic rule. There’s no reason to think they can be negotiated with in good faith.
It is argued convincingly that Hamas was elected because Fatah was irredemibly corrupt rather than as an affirmation of Hamas’s principles. Fine. But who the heck is Israel supposed to negotiate with? People that think Jews are intrinically evil (no shortage of evidence of this)? Israel is negotiating with Abbas – not that he has the power to deliver the security that Israel craves.
Bombing Gaza into rubble is not the answer and may strengthen Hamas politically, but there is absolutely no reason for Israel to negotiate anything other than a humanitarian cease-fire that does not allow Hamas to re-arm.
(btw, the US re-elected Bush for primarily domestic reasons as well – largely the never ending re-fighting of the culture war).
The initial outrage to Palestinians who were displaced when Isreal was formed was ingored by the world. Terrorism blossomed in order to draw attention to their plight. You can diffuse the terrorism and suffering by addressing the Palestinian displacement. It’s a case of defusing the anger and outrage. Solve the Palestinian plight, and anger starts to deflate. Then give people hope for a decent life for themselves and their families – .
donita,
One could say the same thing about any religious advocate. One could say that about any general sitting in a barracks telling his soldiers that their country is worth dieing for. Your assessment highlights the disconnect between the east and the west perspective. It also highlights a disconnect between the western mentality their own mentality.
Hammas was elected by people who were tired of the other option not getting any done and their quality of life actually getting worse. Think US election of so many democrats and/ or actors from the movie “predator”.
It doesn’t look like anything short of a major military defeat will help Israel to overcome its arrogance and aggressiveness sufficiently to be willing to negotiate seriously for a lasting peace.
Asking for peace between religions who believe they are correct and everyone else is wrong, and not just wrong but wicked, is asking for the impossible!
Unless the fundamental dogma that shapes the daily life of millions of people is changed—peace will never be possible. These aren’t just people who like lemons and you like oranges—these are people whose lives are controlled in every way by a collective ideology. This ideology, by definition, doesn’t give room for people with other ideologies. Peace is not possible between inflexible religions, unless they simply give up, or give it up.
Education is extremely important–not the only answer, but extremely important. There is hatred of the other on both sides of the conflict, which fuels violence. On the Israeli side (I say this as an Israeli-American who has debated with relatives in Israel), there is also currently a lack of sympathy for the civilians suffering in Gaza. I wish an Israeli leader would take it upon himself of herself to advocate for sympathy for the Gazans dying, being maimed, terrorized, and starved as a result of the assault and the siege, as well as to advocate for restraint. In so doing, such a leader would educate the Israeli public, and truly lead the Israeli people towards an acceptance of Palestinians as human beings. While I wish both sides exercised restraint with respect to violence, as an Israeli, I can only call for it in my people.
Hello
I think that just a negotiation with Hamas and Israeli govertment under control of some third neutral part will stops this war. While it should lead to creation of independent Palestine state.
I also dont agree with the opinion that Hamas are terorists and in that way u cannot negotiate with them. Its not true they have benn democraticly elected by palestinian people so everybody have to respect that. Just imagine a little example:
You want a change for a better times in your country so you vote for a party or president that you think is the best for this task, he gets elected and sudenly your neighboring country stops comunicating with your government because they just dont like him. Hamas is a legitimate authority so everybody have to accept it and if somebody want something to do with Palestine they have to stort with its representatives whetever they think they are good or bad.
The thing that needs to change is Israels refusal to implement the 1967 UN agreement and stop the settlement of the West Bank. Israel attacks the extremist element of the Palestinians – Hamas – while supporting it’s own extremists – the West Bank Settlers. The answer is actually a three state solution (one put to me by a Muslim Palestinian) – Israel and Palestine set out by the 1967 agreement and a third state of the City of Jerusalem as a global state controlled by a World orgnaistaion such as the UN.
WHYS:
The solution is simple honesty.
Israel and Palestine make a peace deal; the Israel break it. Israel and Palestine make another peace deal; the Palestine breaks it. Repeat.
If both sides would be honest and stick to the deals that they make, then we would not continually repeat this violence.
Israel is right in wanting to protect itself from terrorist. Palestine is right is wanting to establish itself as a nation.
If both side would stick to the deals that they make then peace would have a real chance.
The original United Nations Agreement /Boundaries for the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 needs to be re-visited – re-negotiated.
In 1948 their were just over 1mill israelis; but over 4 mill Palestinians; yet the Israelis ended up with over 80% of the land and the most fertile parts as well – this was the root of all the conflicts since and will simply continue until it’s resolved. The Palestinians were displaced from their lands.
Since 1948, many Palestinian villages have simply been removed from this earth and replaced with Israeli settlements – how would you feel if this happened to you ?
60 years of being systematically displaced – why are the Israeli’s shocked about Hamas? – extremism will continue to flourish as long as these injustices continue and are not retrospectively addressed.
Regards, Rune
Brisbane
Australia
@ Sarah
it was the Irgun, not the Hagannah, that bombed the King David Hotel. Also, we live in now, not in 1946.
A more clear understanding of what did happen in 1948, for which one of your guests uses invective language, would contribute to lasting peace. Would any of the commenters that refer to “occupation,” like to address the formation of Jordan from the Palestinian Mandate?
What needs to change to to ensure a lasting peace?
Israelis need to recognize how much damage they have done toward the Palestinians.
Palestinians have been suffering greatly as a result of Israeli actions.
There could be no honest negotiations or compromises until Israel openly recognizes this simple fact.
Your guest who wants the one state solution, because that would be the end of Israel, neglects to mention that the same amount of Jews were expelled from Muslim nations. Also, saying they are disenfranchised is an absolute lie, and they vote and choose their representatives.
Nothing will change until a solution is forced upon Israel by the U.S. Israel will not agree to a settlement that is acceptable to the Palestinians unless the U.S. declares it is fair and threatens to withdraw all support. Unfortunately, no U.S. president will do that because the politics in the U.S.
I just heard your guest say the Israeli Arabs are “disenfranchised.” How does that work since they have the vote? In fact, Israeli Arabs have full rights in Israel, including complete freedom of worship – something that does not exist in Gaza..
International Community need to recognize Hamas.
“When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.” thats a visionary quotation of Jimi Hendrix and I think it aplies here the best.
UN and whole world has to judge both side with the same measure palestine shot rockets to Israel that barely hit something and Izrael send whole army against them and killed tousands of civilians. Its a fight of David against Goliath.
Both sides need to see reality, their own basic interests. Irregardless of whatever Israel thought it could accomplish by this, it is losing anyway. Even in the US more criticism of Israel’s actions is becoming all the more open, and the protests within the US are becoming all the more numerous AGAINST Israel. Serious war crime investigations are being talked about. And Israel’s own actions, beyond the bombing are not painting its hat white. Not allowing media in was not smart. The Palestinians need to acknowledge what prevents more of the western viewpoint or a greater number of people from seeing what they are going through with more objectivity. The declaration of seeking the destruction of Israel totally and the suicide bombings as policies need to be examined to see if they really are doing anything to help the people so committed to them.
The one thing that must change is the expectations/attitudes on both sides.
By the way, if we are referring to Palestinians and not Muslims, then you should be referring to Israelis and not Jews. ‘Palestinian’ refers to where the person is from, not to the person’s religion. Likewise, ‘Israeli’ refers to the place the person is from. The proper term is not ‘Jew’ , it is ‘Israeli.’
If the US decided to give American Indians their own state, it could be praised from everyone around the world. But if the state was your state, your city, your town, and your home, at the very least you would expect to be compensated. And if there was no compensation, some indiviuals would relocate and start over somewhere else. But many would not or could not, and anger and fighting and bloodshed would occur. This is what hapened in Palestine. Compensate and helpt the people to a new and better life.
Steve,
Thanks for the correction, I should have double checked before I typed.
Also, 1946 influences now, that is why the big picture pans out not just in space but in time. I’m not saying remove Israel… that would be impossible. I’m saying the rights of the Palestinians should be preserved, considering they’ve been short-handed, to say the least, and settlers should not be allowed to encroach on the little bit of land they’ve kept.
If the past didn’t influence us, then we would not have museums for WWI, WWII, and other world conflicts.
I am not sympathetic to either side. But this ridiculous notion that has become so trendy among certain liberals, that Palestinians are all forever innocent victims, is hysterical. Both sides are controlled by extreme religious skulduggery. We should stop romanticizing the Palestinians as a group of people, unless we intend on romanticizing the religious right in America. Are so many of us really this silly?
I just got back yesterday from Israel and watched the plume of smoke reach 50 miles out in to the mediterranean from my plane seat. Yet in Tel Aviv night clubs are hopping, fancy ultra modern restaurants are bustling. It is bizarrre to think that hell on earth is just a few miles away. The israeli people genuinely believe that crushing Hamas is a crucial step to peace. The same as the UK once thought that crushing the IRA was a path to peace in Northern Ireland.
We should look at what should change first but won’t
1. Israel’s control over the US political system through AIPAC
2. The pro-Israel bias in the media especially in the US
Therefore we cannot look to the US for a leadership to path to peace.
The first thing to change is for the EU to take up that leadership role and truly use the lesson from Northern Ireland (that had a 1000 year history not dissimilar to that of Palestine/Israel – witness the “plantations” similarity to the settlements, the massacres like at Drogheda similar to Sabra and Satilla). Let the EU step up for once,,,,!!!!
What has to change to resolve the conflict? Not an easy question, given that this has been going on for over 60 years. For those that keep blaming the Palestinians, please remember that Rabin was assasinated by one of his own countrymen after signing the Oslo Accords. And settlement expansion/land grabbing has never stopped. Israel has continually provoked the Palestinians and I don´t believe that the Israeli leaders ever really (seriously) wanted peace.
One change that would help is if the USA would stop bank-rolling the country. Or maybe just offer every Israeli $1,000,000 to go live somewhere else! That may end up costing the USA less than it is wasting in the region at present.
OK, seriously, I think that a single, secular, democratic state for everyone in the region is really the only answer. Difficult, maybe, but not impossible and definitely a far better solution than the status quo we have now.
Thank you.
I’m glad no one was hurt in the crash, sounds like the pilot did a great job
What needs to change to insure a lasting peace is that war becomes no longer profitable.
PS: Could I recommend that everyone takes a look at Gerald Kaufmann´s latest speech in the House of Commons (available on you tube). Amazing honesty.
Israel needs to secede from the USA.
This may seem like a daft idea but a one state solution is the only solution. By looking back into history we see that the peoples of the Levant are one and the same, the modern political barriers and divides are the result of ham-fisted or deeply cynical foreign policies of past (current?) British governments. The people of the middle East need to see past these imposed doctrines and agendas and form their own regional political view. Tell Washington and London where to go and grow up.
Hamas should be recognized as legitimate party, duly democratically elected.
Investigation in war crimes of Israel.
opening of border crossings
Reconstruction of Gaza (airport, sea port, schools and government buildings)
Gaza is econmically dependent on interational relief agencies and Israel (shekel is currency) but Israel doesn’t need Palestinian workers since million plus came from Russia.
Recogniction of Israel has a caveat, which israel qua boundaries.
Safe passage for travel between Gaza and west bank
elections should be held 2009 to form a government where Hamas play part
A stop and dismantling of Irael settlements
Refugee status redefined, since also in Arab countries Palestinians are excluded from jobs and taking other nationality.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that Israel and the PLO began the peace process more than ten years ago. Hamas and Hezbollah rejected the peace and continued their hostilities against Israel. Sometimes, the only solution in a case like this is to let the two sides fight it out until both are sick of death and destruction and are willing to work toward lasting peace. An imposed peace will never work. A physical wall of separation between Israelis and Palestinians is the same as what some here want between the U.S. and Mexico. That might be the most controllable way of maintaining the peace.
I think the thing to make for a securing a lasting peace in the Middle East:
1)Cease Fire (truce)
2) Peace Talks
3)Negotiations over the futures of items that are in contempt of both sides….
~Dennis Junior~
Your 11 oclock reporter in S Gaza was absolutely irritating!
“All the Israelis want is for Hamas to stop firing rockets” (without mentioning the REAL issues they want!)
and
“All that Hamas wants is to fire rockets” EXCUSE ME???
This person needs to be taken out of the field if that is the level of her knowledge on what each side wants! Perhaps she could watch Al Jazeera a bit and get in on the issues?
I would love to keep BBC as my preferred site, but you seem to be entirely out of the loop.
Kind regards, Mary Ellen
1. Recognize Hamas as a political party, not an all-out terrorist group.
2. The blockade needs to seize to exist ASAP
3. MORE TALKING. My 4 year old knows that Israel, for all our awesome superpower, cannot, and will not, win this war militarily, that is a furnished fact. So to bring back more positivity into Israel’s side (we really need a whole a lot of that), we need to give the Gazan’s more reasons to not believe in parties such as Hamas.
RE “” For those that keep blaming the Palestinians, please remember that Rabin was assasinated by one of his own countrymen after signing the Oslo Accords. “” Has nothing to do with the price of tea in China nor the price of peace in Gaza. Rabin’s death was not the end of the peace coalition. Barak was on the verge of a signed settlement until Arafat collapsed the peace coalition with the restart of the intifada in 2000.
Palestinians have no such peace coalition to negotiate with or collapse since Arafat just played the parties for years to line his pockets with an estimated billion buck$ of aid monies, not develop his people.. You cannot claim some kind of equivalency to the Israelis that doesn’t exist. There is no Palestinian peace movement that would ever be allowed to exist in Palestinian territories, much less come to power.
Just imagine for a second a world without Palestinian conflict. You deny the world terrorist their O2.
I wonder how many people will disagrre with the fact that only formula to a lasting peace in Middle East is to give Palestinians their freedom & honour to buy Israel its peace.
The two state solution is the only viable option on the table , if only USA (a)changes its policy to a fair solution by both sides of the conflict (b) go slow on arming Israel and bank rolling its war budgets (c) bankroll instead the peace process (d) helps in a quid pro quo policy of release of occupied lands back to Palestinians under the 1968 UN Security Council resolution in return for all Palaestinian factions to recognise Israel’s existence with future secure borders. Same time, Palestinian factions have to agree on unified governance mode vis-a- vis Israel and aided with funds for development of a full fledged Palestinian state with strengthenened institutions to meet people’s needs.
Only when Israel abides by UN resolution 242 and returns to its rightful borders, will it gain sympathy for the world. Only then will there be true justice. The Palestinians have every right to feel the need to stand up for themselves. No one else will. Israel thumbs its nose at the UN when it chooses yet complains loudly when it feels agrieved.
Israel has no intention of being in Gaza on Obama’s inauguration day. They will be out on Sunday night! They don’t want to ruin his inauguration day. Israeli claims that they want to stop arms smuggling from Egypt, is an obvious lie! If the Palestinians had arms why haven’t any helicopters been shot down or tanks destroyed? Those tunnels are smuggling mainly food and medicine.
We should start with the truth. who are these Palestinians and lets look at the recorded history. When was Palestine founded and by whom, what was its capital, what were the main cities,what constituted the basis of its economy, what was its form of govt. can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?Was Palestine ever recognised by a country whose existence at that time or now leaves no room for interpretation, what was the language of palestine, what was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?
Try
1)Opening the crossings properly,
2)Manning them with 3rd party forces who don’t treat every Palestinian as a sub human being,
3)Conducting independent investigations of alleged atrocities,
4)Removing illegal Israeli settlements and preventing new ones being built,
5)Stopping the US arming and blindly supporting Israel in everything it does (not much chance there).
In short remove the injustices which are the lifeblood of organisations such as Hamas, the IRA etc etc. Remove the oppression and you remove the support for resistance/terrorist movements (take your pick on what you call them) because their “cause” ceases to exist. Also forget about thinking about this in terms of religious conflict – as in Ireland it is merely a symptom of economic disparity.
seems pretty clear to me the secret to a lasting peace is for Hamas to choose the way of peace: stop firing rockets into Israeli towns and cities and start putting their energies into improving the lives of Gazans.
should Hamas recognise Israel’s right to exist? ‘Should’ is the wrong verb. ‘Must’ works much better. Should the EU and US no longer call Hamas a terrorist organisation? Sure, when it stops behaving like one. Is Hamas and Fatah sorting out their differences the key? Not necessarily. 2-party systems work in other democracies. What about Iran and its role? If it has a role, it would be helpful if it was a peaceful one, such as financing infrastructure, universities and medical facilities and not surreptitiously arming Palestinians with nasty weapons that serve only to endanger Palestinians, while also requiring Israelis to remain vigilant.
One of the things that is needed is hope. A good start would be the West Bank. Hamas does not operate there, no rockets or violence from the West Bank. Abbas is in firm control. But, he has not delivered anything to the Palestinians:
Occupation? continues
Wall of separation? still stands
Illegal settlements? growing
Checkpoints? still there
Refugees? not allowed back
Crimes against Palestinians? growing and still unpunished.
Seeing as the international community is so adamant in demanding that the Palestinians abandon their legal right to resist the illegal occupation, perhaps they can be equally adamant in demanding that Israel has no right to illegally occupy Palestine.
If Gazans see the West Bank strategy of abandoning legitimate resistance against occupation bear fruit then they too will opt for that strategy and abandon Hamas.
Israel says there are 3 conditions Hamas has to accept before they will talk, 1, recognition of Israel’s right to exist. 2, Cessation of violence, and 3, Respect and acceptance of previous agreements signed by Fatah!
Why does nobody expect the same conditions applied to Israel. 1, Israel should recognise the right of the state of Palestine to exist, 2, Israel should cease all violence and 3, Israel should respect all the treaties they’ve signed.
Israel should also respect and adhere to the UN resolutions against them.
For me the solution to this conflict is easy. Modern wars are fought with, MONEY and the MEDIA. I say cut off all foreign aid to both sides. No bullets for Israel and no life support for the Palestinians.
NO MONEY. After we have cut off the money supply to this never ending conflict we must and I repeat MUST completely cut off all Media coverage. I don’t care how many poor people you can parade before the camera. I will not look. The world is full off poor people that need our help. We will concentrate our humanity on these people. After say 5 years of this total money and media embargo, we bring both sides together and … seek COMPROMISE.
Hello again
I insist on being in total agreement with Fred S. The one state solution is the only hope for peace in the middle east. And that state must be Palestine.
I’m still waiting for a previous comment to be axed. I know that my comments are not politically correct but they are honest and they are based on historical fact. What outrages me is injustice and cruelty.
Jim
World Government
Untill there is a mutual respect and tollerance between all persons living in the area peace will not happen. A lasting peace is not a political entity, one or one hundred states will do nothing untill the individuals comprising of them decide they love life more than they hate their neighbours.
I am under the distinct impression that nobody holds Hamas, and by extension, to certain degree the Palestininan People in any way culpable for anything that has happened. Hamas has been clearly and repeatedly requested to cease the rocket attacks. The lethality of these attacks is a minor issue. They were only limited in their lethality by the blockade that Israel imposed. They were unable to get anything more sophisticated. Any war crimes trials need to have some Palestinians among the accused.
Wars are hatched in the minds of men. That is where it can only end. Adhering to tth UN Charter is the only way.
Hello again
I would like to answer Denver in saying that, in my opinion, the only crimes that the Palestinians are guilty of is putting up resistance against the zionist squatters who have been squatting their land for sixty years.
Jim
Hello again
I think John of Scotland has a point. In your choice of subjects for debate and your ferocious censorship policy WHYS do seem to be a team of lotus eaters rather than a serious debating platform.
Consider this a mild rebuke.
Jim
Denver, you’ve missed the point. As Jim said, the Palestinians watch squatters steal more of their land each year. When will the USA hold Israel to account?
Israel has repeatedly ignored requests and UN resolutions requiring it to get off Palestinian land. Why should we condemn the Palestinians for trying to get their land back from those who have stolen it? If the same thing happened to any other nation all hell would break loose.
Now Israel wants to stop Hamas arming itself again. Should we not also demand that Israel be disallowed to arm itself?
Justice for both sides is needed. And it must be seen to be fair to all involved.