It’s the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. That’s not the only reason we’re talking about this today though. It’s the number of current stories that highlight the range of physical threats that women around still face (see links below).
We’re going to try and understand why the level of violence against women in all forms remains so high. Is it because of a lack of education, a lack of legal measures to stop it, or a willingness among some women to tolerate it?
The latter point may be offensive to some of you, but it remains a belief held in some quarters.
We’d like to hear if violence against women has affected your life, if attitudes in your country are changing, and if measures taken to rexcue it have been effective.
Also, are there some circumstances when violence against women can be justified? Is treatment of women a Western pre-occupation? (Again I ask as I know some people would argue that it is.)
Some recent stories…..
* Arrests over acid attack on Afghan schoolgirls
* New laws to prevent forced marriages in the UK
* UN announces US$19 Million in Grants for 23 Projects in 29 Countries to End Violence Against Women
* 13 year old girl stoned to death in Somalia earlier this month
* Fatwa against Malaysian women who dress like men, Pakistan cabinet minister who defended honour killings
*Report on violence against women out today in Nigeria
RSS feed
BBC World Have Your Say 
Why are women still under attack?
Because some ‘boys’ think that picking on girls makes them big, tough ‘men’. Yeah, they’re tough guys alright. They’re so tough in fact that they can beat up/rape/attack somebody half their size and strength.
What, their mommies didn’t love them enough as a youngster? Maybe they’re fed up of getting laughed at for their teeny, weenie…. egos? Either way, they are dishonorable cowards unfit for the title of ‘man.’
In our countries, I am Peruvian, the violence againt women reflect the lack of educaction and information in women. Also poor living conditions and basic needs as job, food or medical help, make woman to be target of insane partners who take advance of them. The information is key in thi9s problems, women who are able to receive education to know their right and possibilities in our developing countries will do the difference.
Despite Latin American countries more and more women are taking important rolls on conducting our societies, the violence continues, because the lack of education is still stuck there.
Media doesn´t help so much , sex contents in newspapers, the image of the woman as sexual object through TV and media is still there, as part of the common communication.
The fear among women, who have been attacked, young gilrs riped, in many cases is allowed for the law. The law sistem is not providing the necessary resources to protect women and to punish criminals. It´s frecuent to see violators denounced and some months later these guys are back in the streets, back in their homes, back with the same abussed woman.
It will never change as long as men feel like they need to dominate the women they come in contact with. No violence should ever be justified, especially when there was no violence to instigate it. Women are humans. They are not property! Women should not be traded, sold, or married off like property. This is one reason I feel that other nations don’t like western nations, because they feel women to be equal not owned.
Violence against women occurs even in relatively civilized societies. Though such cruelty may be greater in countries that deny women basic education and legal protection, I believe it’s universality (at some level) militates against poor education, economic hardship, or legislative gaps being the principal “loop holes” for such behavior. I believe the explanation is simple: I take a lesson from the twelve apostles – most people are conforming members (good) of society most of the time; but a few percent of them are either fundamentally, or opportunistically non-conforming (bad). Distinct characteristics of such folks are often poor self image, insecurity, cowardice and poor perceived societal status, all of which they seek to to improve by sitting on the bodies of their victims. Of course, their remedies are as poorly reasoned as are their ongoing antisocial behaviors. Women are the focus of such antisocial behavior because they are the rock which society is built.
g
Religion is the biggest reason. It legitimizes violence of many kinds, essentially because it encourages discrimination against differently thinking people and relatively powerless people. Get rid of religion and the bullies will have one less means to launch and later defend their cowardly attacks.
Yes, violence against women has affected my life. I believe that the main reason why women are still under attack, whether it be by double standards in society, domestic violence, rape, etc. is because some men are afraid of smart women. Some also believe that a woman is property or nothing more than sexual objects. I think the media and society in general do a great job perpetuating this false assumption.
It is my belief that any man who would ever hurt a woman, whether it be physical, sexual, or any way is an insecure jerk who has control problems. Men who are raised in homes where there is abuse see that abuse and some go on to abuse their significant others because they view it as acceptable. While women in abusive environments will either look for someone who exhibits some of the same traits as their father or else be super picky with regards to relationships/avoid them for safety reasons.
A woman in a domestic violence situation is often in a complex web of issues that keep her tied to the situation; could be self esteem, taking away or harming children, lack of financial resources, nowhere to go, etc. It is easy for those outside the web to say just leave but it seems that the problems are bigger than the realization that yes, you can just leave for the woman.
Historically speaking, we’ve barely just come down from the trees. The instinct to dominate is part of our genetic heritage and it will persist in any society where it is tolerated. It can be fought with laws and with education but the ultimate solution is generational – it’s what we teach our children that matters most.
Only women are? I don’t think so.
I believe the most important reason of violence against woman is that she’s been out of her natural environment for long time.
Needless to say that Mothers do not practicing their instinctive and logical role in education; they just acting as female robots, fulfilling the dirty tasks assigned for her by men, tasks that men can not achieve themselves, or they feel more important to perform such a thing.
What’s must be done?
Turn Woman back to her safe place, where she is able to “produce” free men, men that know what a female is.
I’m not talking only about Somalia and Afghanistan, I’m talking about every place whre Woman is not more than a pleasure tool, and a reproducing mashine…just for men.
Ros,
I have a question that I want to ask of the gallery of great minds that usually respond to this discussion.
Where are you today?
Do you not see any issues with violence against women? What if it were children related? What about mentaly handicapped people facing the death penalty? I’m saddened by the fact this has been here for hours and there are only 5 posts. Wow.
Why are women still under attack?
Parmjeet Kaur a woman from Chattarnagar,Punjab,India was murdered two years ago by her mother in law and brother in law A can of diesel was on poured on her and then she was set alight ,she suffered 80% burns and died two weeks later.
Today on the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women her murders were found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment,this equates to a sentence of twenty years,they will serve only ten years .
@ Faysal
Are you joking?
In order to stop women from being abused, you recommend that we should “turn Woman back to her safe place, where she is able to “produce” free men, men that know what a female is.”
So attacking a woman is abuse, but keeping one inside to be a breeder as you imply is protecting her? That’s still abuse! What if she doesn’t want to be relegated to pumping out units? I’m sorry, but that opinion is twice as bad as assault, because it disguises oppression in the form of protection.
I was brought up with the rule – “You never hit a girl/woman” ever. Call it an old fashioned household but some of those rules, if applied today, would see a much better society than we do have.
@ faysal
Are you implying that women belong in the home and just allowed to be mothers? I am not understanding your post.
@ Vijay
I am glad they were found guilty, it’s ashame they will serve only a short sentence.
I read a story the other day where in India a 15 year old boy wrote a letter to a girl in a different part of the community. His mother screamed to unhearing ears as he was thrown under a moving train and killed. Last I heard there were no arrests. Tragic.
“Egypt treated its women better than any of the other major civilizations of the ancient world.
The Egyptians believed that joy and happiness were legitimate goals of life and regarded home and family as the major source of delight.
While women could become Pharaoh only in very special circumstances, they were otherwise regarded as totally equal to men as far as the law was concerned.
They could own property, borrow money, sign contracts, initiate divorce, appear in court as a witness, etc.
Of course, they were also equally subject to whatever responsibilities normally accompanied those rights.
Love and emotional support were considered to be important parts of marriage. Egyptians loved children as people and not just as potential workers and care-takers.”
@ fysal
so how can you believe that women should be tucked away in a house to produce free men…
In this area of India ,female foeticde is perpertrated and this has resulted in a male female ratio of 1000:850 in some areas 1000:790.
This practice relates to the payment of dowry by the brides family,if a family spends US$1000 on an abortion they can save US$10000 in dowry payment.
A boys birth is celebrated more than a girls,because for example a boy will look after his parents in their old age whereas a girl will be married and go away to look after somebody elses family, men protect their families and also work outside the home and bring wealth to the family.Women eat after the men have eaten,girls may not get the same medical treatment as boys if they are ill,their education may be compromised if they need to do household chores or if there is limited finances boys will be educated girls will not.
Mandie, here I am, fresh from the gallery of great minds.
All violence against women, and indeed all violence, stems from a lack of mental training in tolerance and patience. There are demonstrable psychological differences between the sexes, and these differences can lead to highly frustrating misunderstandings between men and women. We all know about that. In more refined, civilised societies, this kind of frustration is dealt with by techniques of rationalisation and other inhibitive techniques (humour is an important one). In less refined societies or social subcultures these techniques have often not been learned, and the result is violence. An important indicator here is that, in societies and subcultures where women are subjected to violence, other forms of violence are also prevalent (violence against animals included). The conclusion must be that, where education, including education in ethical self-control, is absent, the male psyche tends to violence, and weaker males will practise violence against weaker members of the group. Even refined people might become violent when learnt inhibitions are repressed, for instance when they are drunk or drugged.
Violence is in human nature. It has to be unlearned. Definitely the male is more predisposed to violent behaviour and stronger inhibitors are required than is the case with females (except under certain conditions). Training in non-violence is most effective when it is applied from early childhood.
@ faysal
Is that a joke? 😯
Boys, usually, are taught violence for defensive purposes–it’s part of being a man. Men who are not taught or do not embrace the rest of manhood; that is, being a gentle-man with the values of gentle-manliness, are crippled and cruel half-men. They are the problem. The women will become the problem when they despair and take up arms to defend their children and themselves, for violence in response to violence leads to more violence, not less. Remember, “Whatsoever you reap, so shall you sow.”
I and the rest of the females of the world call upon the males of the world to embrace ALL of the glorious posiblities inherent in the phrase, “I am a man.” Just as cruelty of women toward their children is unacceptable and an abomination, so is cruelty of the man toward woman an abomination. Reject that cruelty. Don’t kid yourselves that your God sanctions cruelty toward women. Throw out all civil and religious laws that foster cruelty toward women.
Canada
It seems to me that there are differing cultural expectations in different countries.
In many developing countries (and I have lived and worked in some) I have noticed a higher acceptance of abuse towards women by their spouses. It happens and it is more or less expected and accepted as part of life. People living in those communities dont “bat an eyelid” when such stories surface.
This is in contrast to developed countries where the community is more likely to be outraged by such stories of abuse of women.
I see the reasons for this as:
– lower standard of education
– “traditional” approach 2 gender role in society
– following poorly understood religeous values
– fundamentalist religeon being used to control society
– poorly implemented rule of law
So in my oppinion as long as we have undeveloped or developing countries, we will continue to be outraged by such abuses because we in the west are judging these societies by our standards.
that women too plays a role in perpetraton of subjugation and subversion of other women is a fact that needs to be acknowledged as well. mothers are to blame who raise their sons to approach any other women that could be a threat to her own security, comfort and kinship with suspect and dsrespect. women are to blame who let themselves be abused under pretext of religious, cultural, and moral tabboos. girls are to blame for allowing, encouraging and appreciating the celebration of “feminity” as an object of masculine pleasure by media. the change in socio-cultural,moral fabric needs to be initiated and actively pursued by women themselves.
It is sad that cowardly men treat women the way the do. I wonder if they see the irony in the fact that they would not exist if it were not for women giving birth to them.
@ Viola
very well put!
@ faysal
You are part of the problem.
If religion or religious based culture subjugates women and treats them other than equal human beings, especially under the guise of protecting them, then that religion needs to be reformed or eliminated. From what I have seen, particullarly in the middle east, I can only conclude that the men are weak and can’t keep themselves controlled thus the need to separate women and hide them in oppressive total body coverings. Why the women don’t revolt is a mystery to me.
It is more to do with the culture and upbringing of children which has gone from bad to worse over a number of years. Also the fact that films and television show so much violence and sex that children watching such programmes grow up thinking that its a normal way of life. Parents have little safeguards in trying to stop children seeing such programmes. Then there is the instability in many countries with internal wars and strife that lend the easy abuse of women by men with animal instincts who think they can get away and not charged with offences they have perpertrated.
The worst violence against women in my view is perpetrated in muslim society. About 50% of muslim population are women, yet they sit there in silence and do NOTHING when 13 year old girl get stoned because she reported being raped. Honour killings, even when perpetrator of rape is known member of the family. When famous cartoons were published – whole muslim world erupted in marches and proitest. WHERE ARE YOU muslim women? Why don’t you stand up in defence of your sisters in AFghanistan? Why are you not protesting against woman being lashed because she was raped? Guess you are all afraid for your own welbeing and scared to protest against injustice. But STOP talking about Islam as just and peaceloving religion when violence against women is justified by your laws.
@Faysal
Re:Turn Woman back to her safe place, where she is able to “produce” free men, men that know what a female is.
I am not sure that I understand what you mean but I think you are speaking about a woman staying at home and having/raising children? In some cases, that only serves to isolate the woman in an unsafe place-her own home with the person who abuses her.
Re: Men who are not taught or do not embrace the rest of manhood; that is, being a gentle-man with the values of gentle-manliness, are crippled and cruel half-men.
I believe that statement is very true. It starts with sentiments like boys don’t cry, wear pink, bake cookies, whatever and progresses. However, it can’t be overlooked that children will think what occurs in their environment normal. If a little boy sees his father abusing his mother he will think that is alright. Little girls will see it as the way they can expect to be treated by men who “love” them.
@Mandie
Some communities marry “in”, some communities marry “out”,but most would not consent to underage premarital relationships,it reflects on the reputation of the family,therefore to protect the family or clan honour they may even kill,if the local police ,politicians and administrators are from the same community as the murderers they may not take any legal action.
A girl from my village wrote a note to a boy in an another village she asked a rather simple and timid neighbourhood boy to deliver the note for her when he got to the boys village,he was slapped around by the boys family and the next day he was beaten up by the girls family,it was a matter of honour.
Why are women under attack?
Because of harsh physical living conditions and limited resources(food,money).
Women have to organise and educate each other and take collective action to highlight their problems.
Women are still under attack because every culture is built upon the tradition that man is at the top of the chain and women are lesser mortals.
All religions encourage this type of thinking and both women and men accept it as normal.
There have been strides made in the West to counter this belief but the basic foundation remains well entrenched.
Until this belief system changes, women will continue to suffer at the hands of men.
We live in a world where mysogyny is rife. This mysogyny is fuelled by a focus on male gratification.
Mothers are still the main child carers and they must be responsible to some extent of the lack of respect for women. Some women raise infant boys, doing everything for them instead of teaching them to do some things for themselves as they would a girl. Some mothers and fathers believe boys should be tough. These boys grow up with a sense of aggression and lack of respect for women in general. As these boys grow up they seek out gratification in other ways and see women as an object to be used and abused as they see fit.
Look at the case of Baby P. That child was beaten and abused by his mother. With no other kind of role model the child was likely to grow into an aggressive adult.
I agree with many women around here that women in not so developed countries are mistreated. I think they don’t stand up for themselves because their movement or revolution would end in their death, or disfigurement. They see how millions can be killed in civil wars, ethnic cleansings, and the world just watch. Support them en mass and they may stand a chance.
At risk of stirring the soup here, what’s the big about women? Are we not all ‘equal’?
I would say given the Violence Against Men, women get off proportionately lightly.
What’s about the Violence Against People?
What’s wrong with this miserable species that it has to go around hitting, hurting, maiming and killing each other?
That’s the question I would like to see answered.
Women, just be happy you are not guys, they get it really bad.
Malc
Berlin
I meant;
…what’s the big *deal* about women? Are we not all ‘equal’?
etc. etc.
@Malc
it is only a big deal if you are a woman! 🙂
Equal? Come on! Have you read the posts on the homosexual blogs?
Come to think of it, I also agree with Mandie in Cape Coral, FL, why are women so wishy washy? They really do just sit around and watch these guys go crazy. And when they do join in, they are heavier than any guy.
Get a grip women, stand up for a bit of Peace All Round!
Throw the weight around a bit. DO something positive!
Say YES to peace and NO to brutality!
Tell these dumb guys, the knuckle heads, to get the brain in gear.
Then we might have a bit of peace and quiet all round.
I watch this war documentary, and there are the dames egging their sweethearts off to a certain death.
Shame on you!
Now if we were talking about brutality towards kids, now there’s a nice streak in the human race… beggars thinking about it.
Malc
I agree with Robert. This is a systemic issue that encompasses more than the voilence of man against woman.
I would not shake a finger at one culture saying “you are the problem”. In the United States, we have taken equality and said, ‘If we genders are all equal, then it’s okay to treat one as badly as another.’
We as humans have seeds of voilence in us. It is with self-awareness and self-control that we combat it.
I am not sitting from a safe seat making these statements. My friends, close family members, and myself have been in situations where verbal, mental or physical abuse occurred.
We need to take into consideration the fact that sometimes women enable their abusers by staying in the realtionship and further endangering their own well-being. They get psychologically wrapped up in the events and make excuses for their abuser, rather than immeditately removing themselves from the situation. This allows the violence to continue and permanently damages the woman’s psyche.
I started dating a man who within days was telling me he loved me and was following me around. I sensed something wasn’t right and tried to distance myself, but it was too late. It took me two years to extricate myself from the “relationship”. I consider myself a strong western woman. I come from a loving family where violence wasn’t present. When I finally told this man I was leaving him I fully expected him to respond in a violent manner, but I wanted out so bad at that point I didn’t care anymore. That relationship scarred me. I haven’t been with a man since and have no intention to. Men don’t loose their temper they use anger as a tool to control women.
I’m a smaller female and I worry I wouldn’t be able to fend off a larger male attacker, if ever in that circumstance. I sometimes fantasize about what the world would be like if every woman woke up tomorrow in possession of a lethal weapon with knowledge of how to use it… I think about this every time I hear about the rape epidemic in DR Congo.
@ Malc
I never said women were wishy washy!
Women, in some countries can be killed for any unfounded reason a man thinks of. Women fear for their safety and the safety of their children! Women give birth with no medications, raise children, and run companies that give jobs to men. I said women are not stupid. We will not revolt until we are sure of the outcome. We think before we do, unlike men.
“It’s the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women.”
I always want to go back and look at the basics, to try and find where belief systems start and are taught.
I suggest that one of the earliest experiences and training in the use of violence to get their way comes in one of the largest religions of the world, the Abrahamic big three group, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, in the form of the King Solomon teaching parents to “spare the rod and spoil the child”. That role model teaches a child at a very early age to use domestic violence to get their way.
I think that the accompanying attitude of keeping people in a state of fear ends up in children developing mental strategies to cope with and deal with the fear. Strategies like giving up on life, developing depression, rebelliousness, sneaking around behind the parents back, self destructive behaviors like drugs, alcohol, and self cutting, and a myriad of other dysfunctional behaviors.
I’d like to see all three Abrahamic religions take a new look at “spare the rod” and reject it in light of modern psychologically studied ways of parenting children.
I have come to believes that the “spare the rod” behaviors and attitudes are the cause of many of the problems that man and womankind face.
Let’s teach the children a different role model!
“Honor thy father and mother” requires that the father and mother be the role models by honoring their children! They teach by how they be, by how they act.
The real question may be why men need to be violent against women. What makes a man, a group of men, a nation of men, imagine that violence against women is appropriate as a political protest, as an act of war, as a rite of passage, as a means of expressing dominance over other groups and tribes of men (as with the rape and genocide atrocities). Ask some men about this.
I think that men who would abuse a woman would also abuse children and other men they think they have an advantage over. Most men in general do not practice such dominant attitudes over others. Those who don’t know that they have a problem have to be dealt with by the good men who can come to the aid of victims. there should be strict law enforcement and neighbor looking out for your neighbors.
The point about Religion does not apply to Sikhism which is explicit about the Equality of women.The problem of subjugation of women in North India(Afghanistan to Bangladesh) is cultural.
Why did Naurinder describe herself as Sikh instead of Punjabi?
Was her reilgion oppressive or was it her Punjabi Culture?
There are many reasons for violence against women, but one of them may be womens’ role as being under the protection of their relatives. In developing countries where women are viewed as the responsibility and to some extent, property of male relatives. An attack on women is an attack on the power of the men.
To show your enemy is powerless, rape “his” women, if he cannot even protect them, what kind of man is he. If she lives she remains as a reminder of his weakness and shame.
As long as women are viewed as belonging to men, and not as people in their own right, we will have rape as a weapon against rivals, and violence towards women in the household as acceptable practices.
A wise woman said that if we want our daughters to sit in the senate, to run corporations and share in the ruling of the world, we have to educate our sons. And I think that men have to share in that education, have to take the lead in that process of eradicating violence against women.
We’re not beating ourselves or stoning ourselves or forcing ourselves into marriages that benefit men of property. We’re not throwing acid in our daughters’ faces. Men are perpetrating this violence. So some other men should talk to their brothers, defend their sisters and mothers and daughters, and not leave it to us to deflect the violence, defend ourselves.
Violence against women is not inherently a human trait. It is a socially constructed behavior based on men having power over women AND children. It is part of patriarchal society based on class societies.
Joseph – Seattle, USA
@ selena in Canada November 25, 2008 at 6:46 pm
“Women are still under attack because every culture is built upon the tradition that man is at the top of the chain and women are lesser mortals.
All religions encourage this type of thinking and both women and men accept it as normal.”
If I understand correctly, Judaism is matriarchal, and so are the Dineh people, the Navajo. The women run the show. I believe there are others but I don’t recall them right now. Certainly history has examples.
The question of why women stay in an abusive relationship has been asked many times. The situation can be complicated and abuse is not usually only physical but also psychological. I studied this a little in university and usually men who are violent against women combine physical and psychological abuse to a point where they can change the sense of reality for a woman where they do not feel strong or worth it enough to leave the relationship. At times women can blame themselves for the violence — again part of the psychological tactics used by abusive men — and continue to stay with them. There may be other reasons, it is not easy for women in these situations to answer this question.
Woman don’t report or do anything about their abusive husbands generally because they blame themselves and are scared about trying to leave.
The key to having them get the courage to leave is to have them think about their children. Most women will take the abuse as long as it doesn’t affect the kids in the household. If he beats you, it’s only a matter of time before he hurts your children. Even if you don’t care about yourself, care about them.
Also, it’s ridiculous to say that someone doesn’t know why they stay with their abusive husband. That is a way to get out of having to think about it.
Josh
Women need to stop allowing themselves to victims! Like Bob Marley said stand up for your rights.
I am beginning to think that they might be some psychological problem with women. The kids reason is a crock because your kids already knows what is going on so get out already.
They are always going to be violent people and the only way to stop violence is to remove yourself from the situation. And yes I know is hard, but no one says life is going to be easy.
People do hurt other people. Todays topic asks WHY Against WOMEN? Women can be strong in thier sensitivity and gentleness. An abuser strikes out out because they are a damaged being. Women should be honored and cherished, not abused. Through the generations these dysfunctions perpetuate. creates more . THis is in contrast to the natural gifts women have to nurture children. To want to stop this mistreatment of women is to yearn to help heal the family back to health and love.(right on Roebert comments)
Re: At risk of stirring the soup here, what’s the big about women? Are we not all ‘equal’?
What’s so big about it is that women are more at risk, easier to exploit emotion-wise, smaller, and also usually isolated (because of the man’s jealousy/anger) from family and community for any help.
Maybe it would be “big” when a man goes so far as to kill his significant other. Wait, that does happen!
I really do hope you are joking!
women should be respected, they are provocative but as well should keep secretes! But who are you moving out withanyway? history tells it but not for all – this depends on the nature of employment at time, where and how?
I love a woman, thou i dont have one at now?? – This muslem traditional and forced marriege business?????
There are many resources on the Web about violence against women.
One of the best is a blog called Lovefraud.com.
This Blog deals with anti-social personalities,, sociopaths and their devastating effects of those that they feed upon. They are like inter-species predator.
There are many different writers and researchers on it. One of the best is a Liane Leedom. MD who has done extensive research on the brain and genetics.
I think law and law enforcement ought to be better but I also think that better parenting ought to be taught in schools from early ages.
And when someone is caught abusing someone they should immediately be enrolled in a mandatory intervention course and taught positive ways to interact.
I do not want to understate that violence against women is a horrible thing. However, it is important to remember that for every man who abuses a woman there are a million men who would not even think of doing anything vile like this, and unfortunately we seem to be making all men out to be nothing more than potential rapists and abusers.
Dave
Florida USA
you had a guest who told u she is a victim of abuse and all u chose to do is tell her to have a good life???hello bbc!!!!!
As concerned to my country Nepal it is due to the lack of education and inefficent implementation of lawsregarding Women rights. In our society its a big social offence for a widow to get re married but a man can get married just after finishing the funeral of his wife . So all the attacks on women in undeveloped country such as Nepal are due to lack of awareness i.e lack of education .
A good and harmonious society is evident by its good morals principle .And for this ,most p eople look up to their religion .How less do we expert women to be treated when some religion do not permute gender equality the fact that they are considered as “weak” in this circle ,sends the wrong message to the men
so many muslim women get beaten up under sharia law which jusifies it. WHY this woman denies it on air and says AGAIN how good sharia law is for women. She is blind or silly? or scared?
Too much generalizations here!
I haven’t heard anyone comment about low self esteem or co-dependency by women who are abused.
I believe that if women would just take a stand for themselves, and show these men that what they are doing will not be tolerated then the violence would go down.
Some might say that that’s easier said than done, but speaking from personal experience, I have done just that.
Wanda in Cleveland, Ohio US
And lets look at the most powerful role model in the world today, the leader of the US, President Bush; he uses violence to get his way and totally rejects talking to people, he tortures people, he has caused the deaths of more than a hundred thousand Iraqis, he has enabled the genocidal ethnic cleansing of Iraqi neighborhoods and the ghetto-ization of Iraqi refugees into Syria.
When Bush gives violence his blessing by how he acts, how he behaves, every other punk in the world thinks he has permission to use violence to get his way just like Bush!.
We need better role models!
Rape, sexual assault, infant girls buried alive… these crimes have become common in the society we are living… how come people become so cruel and sick!
just to fulfill their personal desires!….
talking about past…when people read papers the usually received shock when they read about rape…and now they say its 3rd one this week….
Just throwing those monsters in jail seems quite a tame punishment!
In Islam which is my religion women are given many rights… you cant raise a hand on women…you cant abuse women… it is said that paradise lies under the feet of mothers…
Its a talk about humanity… steps should be taken to reduce such brutality and abuse to women… its a very serious issue which needs global consideration … women should not fear anything anymore…they should step forward and fight for their rights, fight for their honor and fight for their independence!
This kind of illiteracy should be stopped.. I have seen many women suffer from this kind of abuse…some cases leading to suicide and women being thrown out of their houses…married women who were pushed in forced marriages were burned alive by their mother in law and husband….
I feel that one day all these things will be put to an end…women will rise .. and when they will, it will be a start of new generation …a world of peace and respect!
Do anybody agree woman is more stronger than man, ment are stronger in physique. But woman are more stronger mentally and intelectually.
I come from India, it is social stigma and culture, woman can not even complain about her husband to her parents and parents also sometime do not heed to the daughter’s complaints.
Mainly in more developing or developed countries it is the lack of financial independence or for the children sake the woman suffers these atrocities.
But no doubt in every society woman is given high regard and respect as a mother, sister and spouse.
I am no hesistnat to say this “woman is the enemy of a woman” just take, any mother in law and daughter in law story it is same everywhere whether the society is advanced or not.
A good and harmonious society is evident by its good morals principle .And for this ,most people look up to their religion .How less do we expert women to be treated when some religion do not permit gender equality the fact that they are considered as “weak” in this circle ,sends the wrong message to the men
There was a Goodness Gracious Me sketch(UK South Asian Comedy show) about domestic violence in the south Asian community where a woman goes to her local authority to complain about be abused by her husband,but the social worker says she can not interfer because it is cultural and they have to be culturally sensitive to her community.
I can only speak from my own religous background to say. I’m Roman Catholic and we worship Mary the mother of Jesus as a holy person who was chosen by God himself through the holy spirit to bring Our lord Jesus into this world for forgiveness of sins. and to open the gates of Heaven for our goal to reach with our good works and charity.
g.
Very good comments by many. Please men who are self aware…Know that family is perpetrated by different members in different situations- broken men and broken women. Mommie Dearest abused Christina Crawford and Christina survived to tell. “Whats Love Got To Do With It?” singer Tina Turner survived many years of an abusive husband named Ike. In many countries including the U.S. there is a silent falling of the many women and s who die continuously like soldiers in the war against the female. We can help the s and the boys of the present and future.
Although I am against people who use violence against others, I see them as psychologically damaged humans who ought to re-taught better ways to interact, even if that re-teaching is done while they are in jail. Punish but rehabilitate them also.
@ Tom D Ford
Visible? Yes. Incompetent? Maybe. Intelligent? Maybe, too. But I wouldn’t go so far as to say Pres. Bush is a ‘role model.’ That’s like saying Gov. Palin is the pinnacle of well-informed, moderate feminism.
I have a question on the issue of ‘women are for making babies.’
Some time during my life, some women chose to forgo a career and engage in an activity they considered to be more important: raising a family and keeping a home.
Yet some feminists – particularly the more militant ones – have vilified these women as setting back women’s rights and ‘the movement.’ From my experience, these women are largely well-educated and aware of their more-or-less equal rights, yet they made a rational choice to raise the family. My opinion is good on ’em. Kids need a stable place to grow up in and if she can provide it by staying home, that’s great.
Anybody care to comment as to why these women have been accused of being anti-feminist?
I think Women in a way encourage violence against Women. I mean, how can a woman claim to love a man who has continuely violated her for 14 years of their marriage?! What kind of Love is that?!…
In certain areas in Africa, women believe that when a man beats them, he loves them..What!
Women ought to stand against all forms of violence against them. By this i mean, women should build good characters: respectful, mature, non nagging. Nagging sometimes can get men very irritated!
Women ought to understand mens tempraments. Men are different from women, so women should not expect their men to behave like women.
On the other hand, men should stop thinking that they are the stronger sex, and thereby dominiaring. Being the stronger sex does not translate into physical strenght.
Men should understand that no matter how Big a woman looks, her mind is still like a baby. That is why women easily cry. Some men dont understand this, and get very mad at the slightest provocation from their women.
This ought not to be so.
I whole heartedly believe that violence against women is institutionalized, through media, through war and power as Tom Ford mentioned in his comments, and this includes those in power who women should be able to go to for help. So much violence, especially here in the the US, is perpetrated by police officers themselves. I believe rape and violence against women is a world wide epidemic. On the show this morning, one of the guests stated that women need to take a stand and men need to be educated, this is true. But, I think that too much responsibility is being asked of women. There are certainly men out there who oppose violence against women. This is not strictly a women’s issue, it is most definitely a men’s issue as well. Men need to take a stand, and men need to educate other men.
Ah yes. It’s also W’s fault that Islam allows men to beat women. I have to admit, that’s a new one on me. I was also amazed by the number of callers that justified this, by saying “only after .. .” Only nothing. It’s like justifying rape.
Violence against women exists because there are cowardly, ignorant, feeble little men out there, and because there are misguided traditions or superstitions that allow it. And because there are women who were brainwashed from childhood to believe that they had to depend on a man for their survival. And there are societies out there that intend to keep things that way.
@ Malc
“I never said women were wishy washy!”
Sorry! I just construed it that way. In that case I say women are wishy washy! I mean it nicely, it’s not a put down. Unclear in stance…
mandie in cape coral:
“Women give birth with no medications, raise children, and run companies that give jobs to men.”
But don’t call the shots (pun intended)? Why not? Sounds like quite a position of power to me, what goes wrong?
mandie in cape coral:
“I said women are not stupid.”
I wouldn’t generalise here. But women do have seem to got into a stupid situation (see above).
mandie in cape coral:
“We will not revolt until we are sure of the outcome.”
You can *never* be sure of an outcome, that is one reliable thing about life.
mandie in cape coral:
“We think before we do, unlike men.”
Don’t generalise! It lets the side down!! 🙂
Anyway, how about a bit less thinking and a bit more doing to improve your lot?
Help yourselves rather than relying on external ‘donated’ aid.
(Sounding a bit like the Aid to Africa thread here!)
And for goodness sake don’t rely on ‘the guys’ behaving themselves.
Any objective observer will tell you this is not a strong point in guys.
Of there are many guys who behave themselves, and are very nice and gentle people, especially towards women, especially when they want something from a woman (I wonder what that could be?)
But don’t you think it’s about time women got a bit of a grip?!
This patriarchal society is a relatively recent phenomenon you know.
I mean, the guys didn’t mess around with Boadicea, and I amled to believe when Cleopatra said “Jump”, the guys jumped.
Malc
Malc
To Dave in Florida: I think it must be horible to carry around such stereo types as a man. This is why I think it is so important that MEN take a stand against rape and violence. If you feel strongly about this issue, you should get some other men together who feel the same way and start raising awareness.
Asher
Portland, Oregon
The concept of relation ship between two gender’s are common, no doubt a human being have sence of dignity & respect, which is the essence of any relationship.
Though East & west have there own classification’s & defination’s, as far as western relationship is concerned sound like temporary only on weekend’s woman is spot light character & eastern relationship is permanant, full with caring & shairing, full with the love stories & Taj Mahal is one of the best example of Mugal MUslim King’s love & respectfull relationship.
Any way societies learn from practice.
OK Trent West, do you see how, by what you wrote, you are putting the responsibility totally on women? Who’s commiting the violence? By not asking WHY women are being abused, we neglect to get at the root of the problem. Stand up for women, not against them. So much power lies in the hands of men, do you really expect women to fight this alone? Have you ever been violated? Do you know what it is like to feel powerless? It is hard to fight when you are powerless.
@ Jennifer,
i have met plenty of women you are more than capable of emotionally exploiting men……and are physically violent towards their significant other. one problem is that men are general much stronger and that violent attacks lead to severe injuries if not death.
the issue is that domestic violence in general stems from the insecurity of one of the partners. by no means should this be an excuse and we all know that violence does not solve any problems.
you are right the issue should be discussed and people have to be made aware of the consequence of such actions.
Re:”Do anybody agree woman is more stronger than man, ment are stronger in physique. But woman are more stronger mentally and intelectually.
I am no hesistnat to say this “woman is the enemy of a woman” just take, any mother in law and daughter in law story it is same everywhere whether the society is advanced or not.”
I agree with these statements very much.
Some men are capable of snowing everyone else about abuse. When family members know, they want to keep it hush hush as if that will make it go away or they will also blame the victim.
Re:”I have a question on the issue of ‘women are for making babies.’
Some time during my life, some women chose to forgo a career and engage in an activity they considered to be more important: raising a family and keeping a home.
Anybody care to comment as to why these women have been accused of being anti-feminist? ”
I think that accusation stems from some women making choices that are not “progressive” enough for some women. It’s saying; women have the right to do what they want despite being a woman then saying how dare you make that choice! 😛
I’m with Selena here. I decided at five or six that I would rather die than be a silent slave with a fake smile and a Betty Crocker spoon. I have experienced wonderful solidarity from men who see their own benefits in equality and a horrible range of violence and manipulation from those who feel threatened.
This a multigenerational war about how we are going to live. My own grandmother chained herself to a statehouse entrance for the vote. My daughters both work with girls struggling to find a stake in the society through education.
Sometimes the cost of success can be fatal. Take the woman with many degrees from MIT who challenged Larry Summers in 2005 for his blatant prejudice against female aptitude in math and science. She became chancelor of U.C. Santa Cruz, lost her mental health and failed to show up at the graduation of 2006 to speak. You are not hearing from her now because shortly after she voted on the glass ceiling by jumping thirty stories to her death in San Francisco. It was on the day that Harvard lost its biggest grant ever as a punishment for Summers statements. She won lots of battles but lost the war.
She is not here to comment on Larry Summers, collective memory lost its figurehead. The shards of the glass ceiling surround the living but we step over hoping not to get cut.
Dignity is sometimes the only homeland, and hard to find.
This is my first time commenting on this blog.
I haven’t read through the other comments yet, so I don’t know if my contribution has been touched on before. I came late to the radio program and didn’t hear this thought either:
What is unspoken in all this is that the culture that a woman lives in is the force behind the rapist. If the rapist is the nail, it is the culture that is the force that drives it home.
Witness:
–women in Iraq, kidnapped, whose families will not have them back because they “don’t know what the kidnappers have done to them”.
–rape’s use as an agent of ethnic cleansing: these women, once raped, are considered ineligible for marriage and therefore children, thus reducing the population of that ethnic group
— a mother, in Bosnia, who said she’d rather her daughter be dead than raped.
–the Somali teenager, stoned to death for being raped
It is my contention that a woman’s very people, her culture, adds the crushing weight to the act which is a trauma in and of itself. In turning against the victim, the culture aids and abets the rapist. Society cooperates with the rapist when it stigmatizes the victim. The shameful treatment of a woman who has been raped magnifies her suffering 100-fold.
Why is that? Some primitive scapegoating instinct? My feeling is that as long as this dynamic is true, woman are targets for this crime.
Tom D Ford is absolutely right.
And Bush’s model of violence is even more profound when we look at how he was treated as a child and what he appeals to in us (or worries us about) that is old, deep, and “forgotten”.
It is not excusing men but addressing causes of their actions to ask, What is their history as children? Child abuse of boys and girls–the use of children for adults’ emotional needs–is rampant still throughout the world. The West is only beginning to recognize what it does to people who, as a result of having been abused and disrespected, believe that they need both revenge and scapegoats. Revenge is sought because no one has compassionately assisted them in looking at why they feel relief upon looking into the eyes (or, I am sorry to say, into other orifices and hearing pitiful appeals) of a helpless and terrified woman or child or infant or torture victim.
Women tend to take their revenge out on themselves, perhaps for seeming to have betrayed themselves, but they also abuse children. They have the opportunity to do so, and do so to shore up their devastated self-respect–like men.
Again, sexual and physical abuse of men when they were little children is widespread. See Alice Miller’s The Body Never Lies: the Lingering Effects of Hurtful Parenting. And Lloyd deMause’ The Emotional Life of Nations. (Its chapters are at w.psychohistory.com.) Skilled psychotherapy helps; so do widespread acknowledgment of the significance in the cultures of abuse by spokespeople, particularly by men’s repeatedly speaking out, and, above all, so does self-awareness by all people with power in children’s lives.
The point is not to condemn parents but to help them to feel, think, and act from their aware adulthood when relating to children and to have compassion for their own early position as children and for their responses to it. It is a tall order, but we can get out of this encompassing health condition no other way than through the truths of lives.
Abuse is identifying with–and/or submitting to–the aggressor in our early lives. Till it is no longer the rule, “weak” people’s safety and democracy itself will be subject to Margaret Thatcher’s maxim that people must see that “there is no alternative” (TINA) to submitting to power–and grabbing what little is available of it (that is, what’s under our own secretive roofs).
An irony is that women are traditionally taught (at women’s expense) that men are their protectors. Men feel they must be just that (often, we see, at women’s and their own expense). And social structures forbid individual men from being protectors in any effective, meaningful way. (Try war or corporate power, instead, till they fail.)
Women are nature’s lesson that apparent weakness isn’t weakness–in either gender. They can be an excuse for working out problems on others rather than honestly and compassionately in ourselves, resisting accusations of wimpishness and pretensions of “honor”. The “honor” is misplaced on the abuser who terrified us. Life deserves honor. Children and tenderness in ourselves and reliability deserve honor.
–An army brat turned psychotherapist turned learner
@ jennifer,
i have no idea why any woman who has kids and stays at home should be accused of being anti-feminist. i personally think it is a wonderful thing if woman has the time and nerves to engage in full time motherhood. trust me i probably would go insane being at home 24/7
Because they were made from the rib of man…
@@@:Shaun in Halifax, Mandie in Cape Coral, Will Rhodes, Bob from Florida, Jennifer and others.
I did mean every word I said, but none of you’ve taken the effort to ask what could I mean by that.
Bob from Florida, whose problem is it?
My wife is an English teacher, my sister is a supervisor in a 1000 pupils mixed primary school. My younger sister is an English teacher in Dubai. My niece is psychologist in USA.
THEY ARE SAFE, they are “producing” free men, free human beings.
Your standards and criteria do not fit us. If you mean to judge us, do it fairly without any prejudices.
Islam has nothing to do with these extravagant stories that you’ve told.
If you insist on that Islam is responsible, I’d accuse Christianity of all the disasters that Muslim world is suffering from. But I know Christianity has nothing to do with the crimes of so-called Christians, as well as Islam has nothing to do with stupidities of so-called Muslim.
We do not spread our troops all over the world to occupy other’s lands,to kill, to rape, to build secret prisons, and Guantanamo and AbouGhreib.
You should remember that chastity and virginity mean nothing to you people, but they mean A LOT to us.
So please take the oil,and leave us alone.
Yesterday all news services in Adelaide, South Australia, reported that Barack Obama had chosen his economic team, which consisted of at least two men and two women. The reporters named the men, gave them their titles and their backgrounds to show their qualification for the job. The two women standing beside these two men were ignored. No name, no job, no qualification, yet they were standing there, behind Barack Obama, along side the men. Who are they? They were standing there as part of the top economic team, weren’t they? While women continue to be ignored by the media in this way, women will continue to fail in their bid to have a voice. Without a voice women will continue to be powerless. Without power, women will continue to be preyed upon. Therefore, I hold the media accountable for not recognizing women, such as not giving the female economic experts who are part of Barack Obama’s economic team a name, or title, and for not recognizing their qualifications and background. How did they arrive on that stage? Give women the credit they deserve, by giving them the recognition given to their male counterparts, by giving them their place on the stage, and by acknowledging their qualification and background as any other ‘expert’ would be acknowledged. Then women can be SEEN to be on an equal footing to men, and will no longer appear to be as vulnerable through the perception of lower capacitity or capablitiy.
Wow – I know it’s also National Group Therapy Week but I didn’t expect an online display of Bush Derangement Syndrome and the closely-related Palin Derangement Syndrome.
“the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency — nay — the very existence of George W. Bush”
Someone should check their calendars – it’s also National Alopecia Day today – to raise awareness of this condition that touches the lives of so many.
Here in the U.S., in Washington state, during a very contentious divorce, women have blamed me, the victim, for the misery that my ex-husband put me through, using emotional and psychological abuse. One has a Ph.D in psychology and testified in court that it was okay for him to hurl a cheap piece of furniture, since it had little monetary value and since he didn’t hurl it directly at me, despite the fear it instilled in me. The Guardian ad Litem, supposedly looking out for the best interests of my children, said that since the relationship appeared to be dysfunctional since the beginning, it was my fault that the power imbalance continued and that a finding of domestic violence really couldn’t be made. Now a female lawyer who won a pro bono award for representing domestic violence victims has agreed to represent my ex in his appeal to the next level. She doesn’t believe I suffered from emotional and psychological abuse either! There was some minor, sporadic, physical violence too, but without a hospital record to show, a woman in this very progressive (ha!) state doesn’t stand a chance.
Yes, my children were given to their father, a gay man, a long-term unemployed man, an abuser, for two years, while I still wait for the right to mother them, unless my ex succeeds in his appeal.
I have had much better success with the male judge and the male psychologist who was my expert witness. Women who aren’t victims far too readily blame the victim, and continue to victimize them. This has shocked me beyond belief.
…But honestly, any man who is proud to violate a woman in anyway at all, is just a coward!
Some men just are happy to make women feel small. Such men are usually men with very low self esteem1
RE “” Tom D Ford is absolutely right. “”
————————————————————————————————–
————- Bound to happen eventually.
Fairplay, he does have the experience edge even if Sarah Palin could take him one on one.
At any rate, the question asked can never be answered until greater humanity addresses the appalling level of bloodshed, brutality, and violence in it’s thousands of years of history.
Until the general question can be answered, no specifics can ever be, and thousands of years of the status quo will be maintained.
While countries like the UK and US kill thousands of woman and children with their war machinery in Iraq and Afghanistan the BBC has no moral right to pretend to have the interests of woman and children at heart. It is false, and rings more hollow than you can imagine. Even the heavens grimace.
Des Currie
All over the world (at least in the handful of countries I have travelled to so far) violence against women is common and at times tolerated to some extent as something unusual.
This, in my point of view, has got to do something with the way men and women are brought up as children.
In many family settings it is still evident that male children are given exclusive command over their female siblings, allowing an attitude that males are stronger and cleverer than the females to nurture in them. Girls accompanied by their brothers whenever they go out is a common scene in many Asian and Muslim societies. Women who work late being escorted by their husbands or brothers is not a rare occurrence either.
But, at the very root of this over protectionism lies an established opinion in the society that women are less protective on their own and, still worse, they are weaker by nature. Like it or not, we are naturally given to consider our female members as sub-species which is inferior in all standards.
To me, violence against them is only part story. too many other kinds of harassment they are to face in the male dominated society.
Fix the root cause and you will fix the problem. Star it in your own small world of family and let your children actually feel that they are equal. It works best with their up bringing.
. education is not enough.most of time to be independent economically (or existence of any economical support for women) can help women to protest her unfavorable conditions in home or other part of society.however lack of legal measures impact on the violence against women.
as proven by some researches economical development has decreased the gender inequality and gender violence more than the development of judicial system.i think economical independency can strengthen a educated woman as agent to change her condition, mentally and spritually,but the protective legal system has a outside impact.before this important outside help we as women who live in developing countries,need to be empowered by having a job.in my country unemployment crisis is a great factor that it enforce women to tolerate their bad conditions
most of it is just lack of confidence in them…its easier for a community to let a male stranger have their confidence than trust in their own daughter or girl child.
anyway,ive been a victim of abuse by the girl child..the girl child abused ME.
tambua,hamisi,kenya
Cover Our Heads in Shame!
TEHRAN – No sackcloth or ashes but bury your heads in shame. As Iran veers out of control, a no man’s land, Fatemeh Haghighat Pajouh was lynched at dawn. No sentinel, no bellman, no flourish but the usual stark force and irreverent stance to human needs, human rights, amnesty.
Aye, it has all been in vain for the last seven years. Petition to the sacrosanct head and less sacrosanct judiciary chief down to the dregs and finally the hangman had his prey.
What crime, no crime. Self-defense against a vicious lout, her so-called husband who would grab anything in sight, including his step-daughter, whenever passion commanded.
In an adjacent, but related topic to this. The way we socially think of men and women are just different to the core. Until that social view is changed on your society, the derivatives of it will remain.
As an example, a colleague and I noted that there were very few women in our employment. A filter for that is the requirement to travel a lot and at the drop of the hat. Most women are not interested or can not justify doing that when they have children. It is also not socially acceptable for women to travel and leave their kids behind for work.
It is this kind of disconnect that allows for an environment that make violence against women possible.
Violence against women will not end unless violence itself stops. There is violence everywhere against men against children against countries. Lets admit that violence is part of us and I don’t believe that it should be given special attention merely cos it is directed towards women. Those complaining should also know that violence does not have to be physical and I know women that are very good at non-physical violence.
Violence on women especially battary has greatly been blamed on Men by many. But to an extend, its just a solution to family disorders.
For example, in the Bulu lands of Cameroon, women consider battary as a sign of love. If a month goes by without a man beating his wife, the wife begins to feel like the man is not giving her enough attention.
At such moments, the men are bound to beat for the sake of love.
I am not in support of such uncultured action, but recomending that women should be civilize enough to fight the malace or stop complaining.
Hi WHYSers!
Like all other forms of prejudices, the battle against sexism is an ongoign struggle to educate, inform and legislate. Some people genuinely do not know any better becaue of lack of information and opportunities to view women outside of certain conventions. Whereas, others perhaps require the gentlest of reminders about why it is that women, like men, are deserving of respect. Still, governments in other instances have to legislate and enforce laws aimed at protecting all people, including women. That, of course, starts through education, information and practise.
Yesterday, I had the unique privilege of being invited to co-mark an undergraduate poster exam about media, gender and development. During the course of one of presentations/ displays, I became appalled at how little awareness there seemed about some of these issues in Jamaica.
The students were prepared, for the most part, and were quite meticuluous in their explanations of facts and figures. Still, one of the more telling consequences about their near singular focus on women’s rights, for me, was just how little there seemed of the awareness of these issues in the larger university community and the rest of the society, more generally.
One of the students pointed out, for instance, the often salacious and deliberately misleading nature of some news headlines which report domestic violence, here. Looking at, at least one of the examples pointed to, I was appalled that there was no major public outcry against these forms of reporting.
The student also admitted that, prior to doing the course, she too was unaware of the impact of stories like these in their enshrinement of women’s roles as explicitly subordinate to men’s and how that links into the violence mobilised against women in the wider society. All I could do was listen in dismay at how much work still needs to be done in terms of getting that message across for more people to become aware and act, accordingly.
I, for one, will never consider beating a woman or anyone else a sign of love. I don’t care what is the cultural “norm” in any given place. People who cause pain in others in order to to express “love” or gain control or establish order are either stupid or just plain mean. Maybe both.
It shouldn’t be all that confusing. Part of the responsibility for loving someone is not to do something stupid or mean just because your “loved one” seems to want you to. Beware of giving ownership of what you really want to do to the person you want to do it to. In other words, don’t blame the victim. Take responsibility for your own actions.
@ viola,
Agreed! It is sad that there are also some women who have internalised this mantra that, if a man does not beat her (up) he does not love her! How strange, indeed!
@ Lydia Blanchard November 25, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Brought tears to my eyes, thanks.
Air Force brat turned learner.
I’d like to post a link to a powerful slideshow about the murders of women in Juarez, Mexico. It’s a quicktime movie: http://www.visionproject.org/multimedia/index.htm
thanks, Jonathan!
@rawpolitics
Yes, it is sad that anyone would believe such a thing. It’s even sadder that some men think it is doing the woman a favor to cave in to it. By not giving in, he might lose this person he loves, but life is full of such hard choices and possible losses. Women may end up with the same choice to make if she is with a man who seems to invite violence of either the verbal or the physical kind. How much better for everyone to stay true to the truth they know–it is wrong to deliberately inflict pain in order to gain something.