As you consider what to talk about tomorrow, here’s something to mull over. George Bush has been on his farewell tour of Europe over the past week and there’s been lots of talk over what his legacy will be as his two terms come to an end. He wants us to think he’s been a force for good. What do you think?
Will in Canada is with you while we’re away. If you’ve got another idea you think we should do on the programme tomorrow, here is your chance to sell it……
@1700GMT
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Good afternoon Will…
How are you been doing lately…..
Dennis
OCC
Syracuse, New York
(i am sorry for not typing a note correctly, in central new york, we are under a tornado warning)
Good evening, morning and all in between.
I will be looking over the stories that you all will be posting and discussing today – but one that really did strike me this weekend was this one.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7453349.stm
The ingenuity of humans, or the desperation that some have to deal with?
A little from that BBC story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7457781.stm
Amy Winehouse rushed to the hospital after fainting. I hate to say it, but it’s her bad decisions that will lead to this, but I think the arab israeli conflict getting resolved is more likely than Amy Winehouse living to 30.
“The ingenuity of humans, or the desperation that some have to deal with?”
Certainly isnt related to desperation. From the article:
“Recently the flow of small arms and bullets through their tunnels has all but dried up – such is the glut of weaponry already inside Gaza. There is now more than enough for everyone who wants one to have his own semi-automatic and a sidearm with plenty of ammunition.”
So instead of crying endlessly about the humanitarian crisis they could AT LEAST spend time smuggling medical supplies and food/whatever instead of enough arms to supply every single person more than once over.
Does blogging represent a freedom of speech never seen before – and should you be arrested for having a blog and the views you have on your blog?
Which guests do you think would be good to have for a show on, what we do, blogging?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7456357.stm
Hi to my favourite ‘potential’ radio presenter Precious Will Rhodes
, and may Allah bless you my good friend for choosing such an eye-opening story ! Hi my Precious Dennis, it’s always lovely to read your brief but very nice blog posts… And Hi my Precious Steve, your comment managed to draw a huge smile on my rather sad face… You know, Imam Ali says : “There’re so many healthy people who die early during their lives, as there’re also so many ill people who live long !!”… I was wondering, has anyone of you guys seen the documentary “Three Faiths, One God” ?! My Precious Will, may I ask you to google it and put a link that refers to its content here on this page ?! With my love… Yours forever, Lubna…
http://www.threefaithsonegod.com/
There you go, Lubna.
@ Will
I’ve seen portions of that documentary before. I believe a lot of it is filmed where I live.
@ Steve
The three faiths one?
Re: being arrested for blogging, or just fined. How about having Brigitte Bardot on the show to speak about the $24 000.00 fine she recently got for speaking out on her website against Muslim sacrifice of animals in France?
Wasn’t that deemed as hate speech, Donovan?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brigitte-bardot-fined-for-racism-839403.html
Wow my Precious Will, Thanks a million my good friend !
… I wonder, have you ever seen it before ?! If yes then what do you think of it and its content ?! So you did actually see it before my Precious Steve, didn’t you ?! What’s your opinion about it and its content ?! With my love… Yours forever, Lubna…
“tired of being led by the nose by this population that is destroying us, destroying our country by imposing its acts.”
Yes Will, I imagine that was his point. That line is what she was charged for. The line is not hate speech, and the fine is beyond absurd.
The program and what it advocates, in my opinion, is that all faiths can live together IF those faiths are tolerant of each other.
What you do find in the real world is that faith has become politicised on many fronts – when that happened then faith became politics. The two do not mix well at all.
I believe that a secular society is what we should aim for. Each faith having as much respect as due – but tolerant of each. I never did find this hard to contemplate – it seems that some of the worlds ‘leaders’ do.
Each faith seems to have taken on a very violent form of one degree or another – this can never be accepted.
@ Lubna and Will
I have seen portions of it. I thought it was entertaining. I didn’t recognize the name of it, but I recognize the concept and the people featured in it, especially the muslim family. I just cannot put it all together for some reason, but I know I’ve seen at least some if it, and if it were boring I would have changed the channel. I just probably turned it on during the middle of it, and watched the rest of it, so if you can see it, I would recommend it. I seem to recall it’s more of a “feel good” type of documentary and avoids controversy.
Amy Winehouse rushed to the hospital after fainting. I hate to say it, but it’s her bad decisions that will lead to this, but I think the arab israeli conflict getting resolved is more likely than Amy Winehouse living to 30.
Haha. Skillz – 2007 Rap-Up:
“Amy Winehouse said “rehab, I ain’t goin there”, I wouldn’t go niether if I kept my drugs in my hair”
Oh those crazy celebs…
Tino,
I think the reason the fine for Ms. Bardot was so high was because this wasn’t her first offense. I believe it was her third. I would expect the fine to go up the more times you break the rules. That’s what usually happens.
Amy
I haven’t seen the documentary, “Three Faiths, One God,” but I read a book titled, if I remember correctly, “The Tent of Abraham” on the same subject. While I didn’t agree with all of it, it was an excellent read. It, too, was about the common roots of the three faiths.
Re Brigitte Bardot: racism is real enough, but accusations of racism are sometimes nothing more than attempts to stifle debate and intimidate those who hold opinions that fall outside the limits of right-thinking opinion.
As Islam is a creed and not a race it’s absurd that she could be accused, let alone convicted, of ‘racism’ for remarks directed at Muslims (I’ve been called a ‘racist’ by a blogger here – who I strongly suspect knew better – for being critical of Islam).
Her objection to animals being killed without being stunned first seems fair enough (I’d support a ban on it as well) but I don’t suppose that’s what people took exception to. I suppose her comments about France being destroyed were what got some people excited. Blunt. Controversial. Unwelcome to some. But I can’t see in what she said any suggestion of the inherent inferiority or superiority of one race to another, or any hint that people ought to be treated more or less favourably because of these inherent differences (the only meaningful definition of racism as far as I’m concerned, as opposed to many of the propagandistic and politically motivated definitions that do the rounds).
Ironically the case does partly justify her position. Freedom of speech in France is certainly being destroyed if comments like Ms Bardot’s are now actionable. And isn’t that a direct consequence of the presence in France, as she put it, of
‘this population…imposing its acts’?
It doesn’t seem that officially sponsored diversity and multiculturalism are compatible with free speech (as Danish cartoonists and Dutch filmakers have discovered). I know which I’d ditch.
Outlawing internet blogs is a bit like telling people they can’t write in their diary and then let others read it if they choose to do so. Or forbidding the free assembly of persons to discuss anything they wish.
“But I can’t see in what she said any suggestion of the inherent inferiority or superiority of one race to another, or any hint that people ought to be treated more or less favourably because of these inherent differences (the only meaningful definition of racism as far as I’m concerned, as opposed to many of the propagandistic and politically motivated definitions that do the rounds).”
As usual, Victor makes a point I agree completely with. She said that her culture was being destroyed by people imposing their way of life upon France which seems like a reasonable position to hold – whether you agree with it or not. That isn’t advocating discrimination on any grounds whatsoever, even religious ones let alone racist ones.
at Lubna:
When you are busy like me, time is of the quickest…
Dennis
OCC
Syracuse, New York
USA
@ Victor et al
“Re Brigitte Bardot: racism is real enough, but accusations of racism are sometimes nothing more than attempts to stifle debate and intimidate those who hold opinions that fall outside the limits of right-thinking opinion.”
I think you are right. There is always an attempt to stifle debate when things are not the way we like. But we all do it… every single one of us.
Would you define *racism* and *right thinking* for me, please.
According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, the term “racial discrimination” shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
That’s a pretty broad definition and covers just about anything of which one might think. According to that definition some of the remarks made here about Africans and Arabs fall into the definition of racism, in my opinion.
And we mustn’t forget sexism, ageism and homophobia and other things I can’t remember that pop up regularly.
Call it what you will, if one has an attitude that is black and white, as in I am right and you are wrong, one could think that is right thinking.
There has been many things said here that could upset any number of people. But the people being upset are usually upset about their own groups or beliefs. That’s natural because we are schooled to protect our own.
There are plenty of blogs and forums where we can go to defend the status quo. But this blog should aspire to be more than a place where we can come to *fight* for our own group.
My dream and vision for this blog is that we can learn how to see the other’s point of view. That will take time. But if we don’t make a small step toward change, there will never be change. We can’t change if we insist on defending our own position, without a thought for the other. We can talk change as we always do. But we always expect the other to change because we are always right. Results can never be achieved that way.
Can we make a small step? Of course we can! We just need to start removing those logs from our eyes.
Each faith seems to have taken on a very violent form of one degree or another – this can never be accepted.
——————————————————————————————
——- Don’t get much more secular than communism.
Guinness records had the Chinese communists, re: Mao, as holding the record for most mass murders, something like 50 million followed by Soviets with 30 million.
People armed with anything scare me. Pen knife, pen, cars, ladies thongs, cartoons, you name it and it’s been used to assault, maim, and kill others.
You can beat someone to death with a Bible, Koran, or Torah, and probably bore someone to death reading them The Communist Manifesto out loud.
Or you could tax them to death, work them to death, or stuff them to death with junk food.
Ladies thongs?!?
Well, we could ask Ros to do a show on ‘What underwear really skeeves you?’ Can’t see that happening much, you?
Will,
Dispatch 17 June 2007 @ 2.19am
Great idea, problem is Ros will NEVER go for it….
How did you come up with this brilliant idea.
Dennis
OCC
Syracuse, New York
Roberto’s post above mine.
It’s stories like this that really make me want to scream!! Children are precious gifts and should be cherished.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/16/tied.to.tree.ap/index.html
Amy
@ Amy
It is a terrible story. Some people shouldn´t be allowed to have children!
I know sometimes I get too extreme regarding this issue, but I am a researcher on child abuse, so unfortunately I hear this kind of stories all the time. It is sad that so many children in the world have to endure abuse from their own parents, the people that are suppose to take care of them.
“Ladies’ thongs” would be a topic fraught with difficulty and misunderstanding. Half the world would be discussing skimpy underwear while the other half would be talking about “flip flop” style footwear. It all goes to show how careful you have to be in an international forum!
As for that original question way back when about Bush’s legacy, I firmly believe that he will go down in history as a disaster for both the USA and the world.
-His “war on terrorism” turned into a “recruiting drive for terrorism” and we live in a world far more dangerous and divided than when he took office.
-His mismanagement of the US economy (couple with him being in the pocket of big business which he failed to regulate properly) led to the present “credit crunch” and a global recession.
-Thousands of young men and women died in his mis-guided invasion of Iraq, a war based on a lie. This was at the expense of “finishing the job” in Afghanistan, a war which COULD have made a real difference.
…the list could go on and on.
@selena – “Call it what you will, if one has an attitude that is black and white, as in I am right and you are wrong, one could think that is right thinking.”
The problem I find with strong-headed people who think in black and white is that often they jump into conclusions without first seeing things from multiple angles, nor would they realise that things or events could be interpreted differently depending on the circumstance of the interpreter. One can think confidently in black and white only if they are sure that their thinking is not made out of ignorance, assumptions, or half-guesses. How could one ever be sure about that?
Perhaps the “right” way of thinking would be to do due diligence, conduct in-depth research, explore all variables, before commenting on something that you have educated yourself on to the best of your ability?
@Roberto – “Guinness records had the Chinese communists, re: Mao, as holding the record for most mass murders, something like 50 million followed by Soviets with 30 million.”
No doubt these are big numbers, but I doubt who ever submitted these as records knew exactly how many people were killed by these people. As usual political crimes like these have claims and counter-claims. At best these figures are educated guesses only.
One could also claim that Genghis Khan outdid both Mao and Stalin as he had the tendancy to flatten entire cities that dared not submit. During his conquest he had conquered thousands of them. Just in Baghdad alone the death toll ran into the millions following the Mongol conquest. But would anyone know the precise figure?
http://www.theage.com.au/national/nowhere-to-run-in-beijing-athletes-stay-away-20080617-2ry1.html
On justifying the decision of not sending the Australian track and field team to the Opening Ceremony of the Beijing Olympic games due to the air pollution there:
—————
“Australian track legend Raelene Boyle said preparing for the Olympic Games outside of Beijing and avoiding the opening ceremony was a “very sensible move”.
…
“I believe that the athletes are there to perform on the track as athletes,” she said on 3AW.
She described the opening ceremony as “the dress-up of the Olympics. It’s not what the Olympics are all about … If that’s the most important thing you’re going for, you’re going for the wrong reasons.”
—————
Is the Olympics about uniting the people from all parts of the world, or is it all about winning medals?
Frankly, I love watching the opening ceremony. I could miss out on the 100m sprint or the football final, but I always make sure that I don’t miss the opening and closing ceremonies. So have I been following the Olympics for the WRONG REASONS??
Still, perhaps Bardot could go on the show to expand and clarify her position? It is about animals being killed for no good reason, isn’t it?
@Tom
No Tom for your reasons, and they cannot be wrong for you.
From the Athletes point of view i believe they are right, the air is so contaminate that, its like putting diesel in a highly tuned racing car.
The whole business of Sport is a debacle. Finace, the advertising companies, and the sports bodies, have or are turning it into a finance thing, and the politicians into a political thing. Schedules are determined by the TV Firms. there’s a lot more money there, but the Sport Geist has not got better,
Sorry to say, the run-up this time has taken all interest from my person, so i shall watch the world go by, and listen to the birds in the garden. To top it all i’ll wear the same sport shoe that i always wear, and cover my face with the same after shave.
Hoping you enjoy the Olypics
John in Germany
Hi Will Rhodes
Should the media defend British mercenary Simon Mann?http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7458274.stm
Can the media defend itself without proper backing?
Given the situation in Africa and the abominations perpetrated here in the name of justice by self-righteous zealots and fanatics, the survival rating for the independent press are thin. Shouldn’t the media take self-preservation measures in political hot spots?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7457794.stm
Absolutely stupid. If you cannot showcase the product properly that seems a valid reason to not hire someone. I am, however, not very surprised.
@ Tino:
That’s it: Whenever we apply for a job now and get turned down, we claim injustice and hurt feelings, we can make this a business!
@ selena
in the spirit of your above message I will take up daily reading the Jeruselam Post. Recomended by Bryan with link supplied by Steve. Should be interesting.I think that we all cherry pick news articles and publications that suit our bias and spout them like they were fact. If you have a narrow and biased source of information you have a narrow and biased opinion. I will try to broaden mine. Andt that doesn’t mean I’m coming over to the dark side Tino!
@Tino
Strikes me as a bit like a vegetarian claiming discrimination because they can’t get a job in a butcher shop.
Seriously, this sort of case always worries me. There’s enough genuine discrimination around but when a somewhat nonsensical case like this is upheld, it gives even the valid cases a bad name.
This is pretty fresh from the press:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/16/condemned-lakes.html
Good-bye, nature.
Katharna in Ghent
I think it was H D Thoreau that said a hundred and fifty years ago “There is a pestilence upon the earth, and we are it.”
@Olympics Games
We all know for a fact the all developed countries and the developing ones including Australia are the worst polluters or emitters of Green House Gas that is polluting the atmosphere. The athlete from Austrialia not wanting to attend the opening ceremonies of the Olympic Games in Beijin citing pollution of the air as reason is completely rediculous and absurd. When the Olympic Games were held in Sydney, Austrialia, nobody complains about pollution of air despite the fact that is one of the worst polluters on earth. The decision by this Austrilian athlete is purely political which is influence by the leaders of that country as it is with the western countries.
@George W. Bush
Here in Liberia Bush will be mainly remembered as the man who helped ended our 14 year bloody civil war by asking Charles Taylor out of Liberia. This action is beleived to have had an immediate effect on the conflict positively. He also strongly advocated for the releive of Liberia’s debts by the IMF, World Bank and to other other creditors.
To the rest of the world Bush will be remembered as a man who waged on Iraq on faulty premise; as a man who cause a crash on the world financial market because of his war attitude; as a man who disrespected the UN and thought that he could go it alone; as who by claiming to be fighting terrorism actually increase the number of stupid people who became terrorists; as a man who actually inspire the ambition in Iran to want nuclear weapons, etc. In short, Mr. Bush will be remembered as a man who brought ontold sufferings to the poor people of the because of his ugly foreign policy.
“-His “war on terrorism” turned into a “recruiting drive for terrorism” and we live in a world far more dangerous and divided than when he took office.”
Bob, I’m not sure we should be putting the war on terror in quotes, though I know this is standard BBC practice. That, and using phrases such as “The so-called war on terror” and America/Bush’s war on terror” – as if it is not in the interests of all of us that terror is defeated. Perhaps a memo went out? If anyone from the BBC ever agreed with George W. Bush, they’d never be able to hold their head up again in the corridors of the BBC. There is, or was, a poster of George Bush as Hitler up in the BBC newsroom, of all places
I tend to agree that Iraq was a step too far. Still ,the subject is incredibly complex and wide-ranging. But why ignore the reality and aim of Islamic terror? People who have really researched the subject have found that the aim is the dominance of radical Islam over all other faiths – not just in those countries where it is prevalent, but throughout the planet. The aim is the reestablishment of the ‘Caliphate’ and more.
Put another way, how strong would Islamic terrorists be if America had not acted after 9/11? Would they be weaker or stronger than they are today? When Israel withdrew from Gaza it actually strengthened Hamas – who saw the disengagement as the Israeli enemy’s weakness rather than an opportunity for peace. This is why, as has been pointed out on the Gaza thread, Hamas resumed rocket fire at Israel when the dust from the withdrawal had barely settled.
So I don’t see why attacking terrorists is more of a recruitment for terrorists than adopting a neutral position and allowing terror to spread. It just doesn’t make sense.
I like the way this topic has been worded: “He wants us to think he’s been a force for good. What do you think?” That’s a leading question inviting the “correct” answer if ever I saw one. It brings the poster of Bush as Hitler to mind.
@ Tino and Katharina
Wow, I’m going to move to the UK, apparently “hurt feelings” is a cause of action there! I will open up my London branch of Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe, LLP and make millions!
Bryan
there was no WMDs found in Iraq and also no evedence of Al Quida. When the Al Quida realized there was a quarter of a million sitting ducks on their doorstep it was bees to honey. The failure of the Coalition of the Willing to secure Iraq after their military success was like a welcome matt. The U.S. was not fighting terror in Iraq initialy. They were getting rid of a brutal dictator. The quotation marks are there because it wasn’t a war on terror at all.
According to today’s JP, Hamas has got rid of corruption, and made Gaza a much safer place to live with a 95% reduction in crime. Every incursion and sanction makes the population more determined to defy Israel and support Hamas. They would be re-elected again today regardless of all the suffering they are experiencing.
I believe that their use of kassam rockets is their way of saying that they are not going to get on their knees and they would rather die fighting than submit.
The methods that they can show that defiance are rather limited. Their terror is not world wide but local and due to the fact that they believe they have been and are being treated unfairly. As soon as they lay down their weapons they have lost any claim to justice.
I do believe that the percieved injustice of their situation and occupation of Iraq are used by terrorists to recruit followers to join the fight for their cause. And thereby made the world a more dangerous place.
I think that I might have seen Three Faiths, but the website is so tricked out that my dinosaur – or computer – can’t read the data. I wanted to find a transcript of the show. I’ll have to wait until I’m at the library.
Still fuming over having missed that Pal-Isr convo yesterday. The only access that I will have to the archive will be when the podcast mp3 is linked up. If the word “first” had really meant first… *fuming*
Hurt feelings make me LOL.
If we choose to take everything personally our feelings will always be hurt.
If I interview three people for one job only one person can be hired. If this kind of foolishness is allowed to stand, managers will be reluctant to advertise jobs.
We will never get away from the personal aspect of hiring. If I don’t like blonds, I probably won’ t hire a blond. I won’t even be thinking consciously about it but I will stay away from blonds.
I have always been intrigued by the hiring process. Many times I have interviewed a number of people for one job and a person who didn’t get the job has felt aggrieved.
In particular, one person who felt the job was his turned up at my door one Sunday morning in a very angry mood. I was home alone but I invited him in, gave him a cup of tea and asked him where he got the idea that the job was his.
He had no answer for that except to keep repeating that the job was his, which didn’t make much sense to me and still doesn’t. This situation was not unique, as I have seen the same thing happen to other managers. What am I missing?
Perhaps someone can help me to understand why one person would feel that s/he would be better qualified than another for a job I am advertising. And why I can’t do the choosing without fearing retaliation?
Interesting story: Photographer sued for refusing to photograph a homosexual commitment ceremony.
http://www.lcsun-news.com/ci_8893673
I’m curious, by implication, by saying the photographer discriminated, it is saying she should have done the work, even if it was against her will, ironically violating the 13th amendment’s prohibition of forced servitude.
I remember cases of muslim cashiers refusing to ring up groceries that were pork products, and that was defended for religious freedom purposes.
I have loved living in Paris but I fear that I may change my mind in the near future.
The government is going to join NATO, fire 45,000 soldiers and concentrate on Homeland Security.
Sound familiar?
France has always been a safe place but it won’t be long before that changes. Mark my words!
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ioOvN7CZ7umJ36u0-GSj_MTKZpvg
@ Selena, you asked: “Would you define *racism* and *right thinking* for me, please.”
I refer you back to the definition I gave of racism (believing in inherent superiority/inferiority due to race, and justifying differential treatment on that basis).
As to ‘right thinking,’ I have in mind what’s sometimes described as
‘Guardian-reader’s mentality’ here in Britian. The Guardian is a left-liberal newspaper with an international reputation. It always has entirely predictable, ‘right on’, very correct views on everything. A sampling of its opinions would produce a selection like the following: George Bush, one of the worst Presidents in history; Bill Clinton – a political genius; Africa is poor because of Western exploitation; Christianity is an outdated superstition, like all religion, and deserves our contempt; Islam should be treated with respect, not as a religion but as the expression of a minority culture; we must try to understand why disaffected Muslim youth are being radicalised and turning to terror; Guantanamo is a terrible human rights injustice; capitalism is exploitative; the nation-state is the source of war and division in the world; states should surrender more of their sovereignty to the UN; only a world government will bring us global peace and prosperity; there should be a tax for Africa; children of different races should be educated together, using forcible integration if necessary; global warming is unquestionable; the EU is an excellent thing; any minority that complains about the majority must be taken seriously; any majority that complains about a minority are bigots; Cuban socialism has been distorted by America’s campaign against Fidel; we must strive for social justice; minorities in the West often face oppression, marginialisation and dispossession; we must fight Islamophiobia; gays should have just the same right to marriage as heterosexual couples; ’sex workers’ should be treated just like any other profession; ‘undocumented workers’ should have the same rights as citizens; the traditional family is an oppressive, patriarchal institution whose time is past; immigration restrictions make little sense in a global village; we should celebrate diversity; patriotism is chauvinism; private education is an injustice; let’s pay for X by taxing the rich and the corporations; etc..
I was interested to read your quote from the the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. I hope my country isn’t a signatory to that document. Its definition of racial discrimination seems geared to enhancing the power of the state to regulate all aspects of life. It attempts to ban all kinds of discrimination, not just racial, including it seems that between citizens and non-citizens. No soceity that seriously implemented this Convention would remain free or viable for very long. Could you explain how ‘…some of the remarks made here about Africans and Arabs fall into the UN definition of racism’? If they do, that’s just another reason for not taking the UN seriously.
@ John in Germany
Taking politics and the typical official pleasantries aside, there is something magical in opening and closing ceremonies where athletes from all countries walking into the stadium in their national costumes all relaxed, having fun and mingling with one another. These are the only times when competing athletes don’t see each other as rivals but friends. That is what Olympics was really about – a breakdown and celebration of differences, the ideal of a unified world – and not about merchandising, TV ratings, corporate sponsorship or politics. The last one unfortunately will be inseparable from the games as athletes are there to represent political entities but not peoples or believes.
@Tom
Your “was” is the key word to many problems in the World, not only the Olympics.
Admitting that many things are different is not easy, as was was part of our lives. As an Oldie i don’t praise the good old times, but i am certainly not very happy about the good old today.
We had a Catholic day here in Germany a while ago, i was able to enjoy the atmosphere whilst watching the television reports of the procedures (i am C of E).
There were also youths and older people from all over the World, and it worked without Big Money, or Politics.
Enjoy your Olypics Tom i certainly wish you good entertainment, and relaxation.
John in Germany.
@Victor
The things you mention are questionable. My point is: the opposite of the examples cited are just as questionable.
If one believes that one side is entirely right and the other side is entirely wrong, that is black and white thinking and it is the kind of thinking that causes all the world’s problems.
The Africans are not responsible for all their present challenges. They are caught up in a quagmire cause by circumstances beyond their control. If the continent is to find its way out of this quagmire, we have to acknowledge our role in getting the continent to where it is today.
Similarly, with the Arabs and the Chinese and the Cubans and whomever… When we continue to take a superior stance and refuse to admit any culpability, this is racism, in my understanding of racism.
We are not superior! We do not have a superior civilization! We do not have superior justice.
“Similarly, with the Arabs and the Chinese and the Cubans and whomever… When we continue to take a superior stance and refuse to admit any culpability, this is racism, in my understanding of racism.
We are not superior! We do not have a superior civilization! We do not have superior justice.”
Civilization comparison has nothing to do with race, for one thing. Secondly, saying you are responsible for ALL THE BAD is even more racist. You think saying Africans are wholly dependent upon aid or help is not racist? You are implying the people cannot take care of themselves. Same thing I have seen from the loonies of the 9/11 conspiracy nonsense. Govt had to do it because they are not capable. Education and money are the solution to terrorism. All of these things are a direct result of thinking you are so much better than they are, especially when evidence points to the opposite so often. I mean, you said unless we take responsibility for their problems, we are racist. That is like the relationship between a parent and a young child. So you are suggesting, by your own argument, that they cannot do things on their own – which is far more racist than saying they are responsible for themselves…
PS: We do have a superior civilization, unless you think free speech and many other freedoms are equal to a repressive government. We also have rule of law which has to be obeyed even by our leaders. And unless you think we have a white civilization or something it isnt racist. We have asians, arabs, blacks, hispanics, etc in our civilization – therefore it is impossible for me to be racist when saying our culture is superior. I truly hope you see the distinction.
@Tino
I don’t make my points very well, it seems.
I don’t think I said any of the things you think I said.
So, how do we resolve this issue? I wonder!!
Just out of curiosity, why do we not have a TP 18 June? There may be a plethora of suggested discussions, but I rather enjoyed our freely meandering discussions, as well.
Have we heard yet from Lubna or Zaynab? That bombing in Baghdad has me worried.
“We do have a superior civilization, unless you think free speech and many other freedoms are equal to a repressive government.”
I’d say that civilization and system of government are two very different concepts. When Germany was under Nazi rule would we say that German civilization was inferior because their authority preached and practiced political repression and ethnic genocide – but now they are on par with these “superior” civilizations with the official adoption of democracy?
The people and its cultural, artistic, philosophical, scientific achievements, but not the adopted system of government, indicate the strength of a civilization. Peoples living under Nazi or Communist rules yearn for freedom, free speech and justice as much as people from a superior civilization you’re referring to.
Even though one may be enjoying freedom and free speech, would rising levels of family breakup, divorce, alcohol and drug abuse, sexual and violent assaults be a hallmark of a strong civilization?
People in many parts of the developing world would think otherwise.
No way are we responsible for getting the bad countries in Africa where they are today. Just as much as the younger generation are not responsible for what happened in Germany. Its History.
Down right corruption, mis-use of sources, incompetent people in the important political positions, (not opposition), nepotism, greed, and don’t care attitude is the downfall of those countries that are not on their feet. To blame History, and the colonists is an easy way out. i do not blame my father for my incompetence, and attitude,. it is entirely my problem. Cause im a big boy, and fed up with all the excuses.
The elite are the responsible ones, sort them out and the country functions.
But make sure the control function is in order for the new Elite.
John in Germany.