Hi it’s Karnie…
I am South African and like most citizens despite living so far away from home I am very proud of my country. My roots are deep, I often get teased by my colleagues here at WHYS about my enthusiam for South Africa. Can I blame them when I try and mention it at almost every editorial meeting? I suppose this type of enthusiasm/patriotism is prevalent in most South Africans, post Apartheid.
We are after all the world’s first ”Rainbow Nation” - given the title due to our diverse community. That title to me is symbolic of acceptance of all citizens, despite cultural background or heritage.
Even though I am “proudly South African”, when I come across articles like this one I get angry and feel embarrassed that we can behave in this way only 14 years after the end of Apartheid. South Africa has witnessed over 40 years of inhumanity, injustice, hatred, fear - I could go on listing all the negative things I experienced growing up as a non-white in SA.
I was an “apartheid baby”, born and bred in one of THE most racist countries in the world. South Africans waited for more than 40 years to experience freedom and justice for all. Never in the years after the end of Apartheid did I imagine we would act in a way very reminiscent of the Apartheid government.
The recent township violence has led to deaths and women being raped and all because they are foreigners who “threaten” the livelihood of the working class. One of the most ironic aspects about Alexandra Township is this - the residents of Alexandra were actively involved in the liberation struggle during the Apartheid era.
They stood side by side to end tyranny…how different are they today from their oppressors? We can attempt to condone the acts of the working class by saying they’ve been let down by the government, that they are SA’s forgotten race and that they’re angry that their jobs are being taken away from them..but what happened to basic human rights? Have they forgotten where they’ve come from?
One of South Africa’s leading newspapers, The South African Times when referring to this particular story asks - Is this the new South Africa? The editor of the SA Times has agreed to join us in a WHYS discussion. We will also try and get to speak to people from other countries who live in Alexandra Township and who have been the target of the recent violence. And to South Africans who want these people to leave…In the meantime, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this story…
@1700 GMT
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Hi Karnie & the WHYS crew!
I am saddened when I hear things like this. People should be allowed to live in peace wherever they want to! It is tragic, especially considering the history of the country, that violence is being mobilised against non-nationals on whatever premise. Fear and hate are always such deadly emotions by themselves and an especially lethal cocktail when combined. I have to pull the famous Rodney King line: “can’t we all just get along?”
People in the west take for granted how good we have it. Things like this don’t happen here. Where I live, in the Washington, DC area, is very err, cosmopolitan. I think most of the conversations I heard while on the street were not in English. When I left work and took the metro home, some people from Spain got on the Metro, and were proudly and loudly speaking in Spanish about Spain. I’ve never seen any anti Immigrant act ever wherever I’ve been in the US. In fact, the only time I ever saw something was in London. I was in Bishopsgate, having finished an exam, I left the building, and there was some guy, either drunk or mentally unbalanced, shouting at himself in some other language. Several of the locals observed and then lamented “bloody foreigners!”, but that was it.
Why the surprise?
I’ve always said that Africa is one of the worst places in the world for racism. Quite literally millions of Africans have been robbed, raped and murdered by other Africans for belonging to the wrong tribe. This has been the case since independence but the world has deliberately ignored this ethnic racism because, for some reason, it’s only considered acceptable to use the ‘R’ word about Westerners.
The ANC’s victory released a torrent of crime and violence in South Africa. One can only speculate why, but I’d put it down to the liberal tendency to excuse and defend criminals and to treat crime with kid-gloves (’it’s the fault of society; the criminal is a victim too…etc’). South Africa is the liberal state par excellence, from its silly label of ‘rainbow nation’ (what, just like Yugoslavia was a ‘rainbow nation’?) to its ultra-progressive legislation on same-sex couples. The ANC has erected welfarism into the cornerstone of government. When, instead of creating the circumstances in which opportunity and enterprise can flourish, you promise tens of millions of people that you as government will find them jobs, build them homes, etc, is it really a surprise that you create huge expectations that are inevitably going to be disappointed, and a culture of entitlement that is outraged at the sight of non-South Africans succeeding on the strength of their own hard work?
The criminality and violence against foreigners is despicable and ought to dealt with firmly (but liberalism and law &order have always been unlikely bedfellows). But there are nonetheless very real issues at the back of the violence. What proportion of the foreigners in South Africa are illegal immigrants? How much immigration should a country be taking that has high levels of unemployment? To what extent does the ANC, like the good liberals they are, turn a blind eye to illegal immigration? If the people of South Africa are generally in favour of a restrictive immigration policy (3 million Zimbaweans? Even as refugees that’’s going to be a problem) what right has a liberal government to thwart their will on such an important point? This story is not dealt with by just condemning the violence; the issues that have caused the violence also need to be addressed.
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/15/xenophobia-%e2%80%93-alexandra-a-tale-of-two-in-one-city/
I went out onto the streets of Alexandra to ascertain the underlying cause of the violence. I spoke to both sides (locals and Zimbabweans) as well as the police, magistrates, prosecutors and other interested parties.
Hope this makes understanding the situation a little easier.
@ Karnie & the World Have Your Say Team.
the foreigners should be welcome if they can provide the society with
their contributions…..
i also accept, that in times of crisis, we need to accept asylum seekers into a country.
but we do not need any more criminals….
Regards,
Dennis~Madrid, United States of America
Hi Karnie be strong.
Some people often don’t recognize even teasing can hurt especially if the root is racism. While this may not be the case it wouldn’t hurt to set them straight - how about putting the soundtrack to ‘Mandela’ on somewhere, at work, or even on an ipod, and just ignoring the nay-sayers. Use the movement of freedom started by Nelson Mandela to steamroll a path through the myer.
I was shocked when I heard from the radio, that South African are rounding up foreighners. South African, are forgetting so soon, during their struggles to freedom,when their neighbours were standing by them. Your neighbours sacrificed for the freedom that you are enjoying today. It’s time to stand by them instead of rounding them up. Let’s learn to be good neighbours.
It is quite naive for Black south africans to stoop so low. It shows how positions have changed and they are now practising apartheid against their especially downtrodden neighbours like Zimbambweans and mozambicans.The question of how people like the Somalis have opened up businesses after just a short time should be a lesson to those lazy South Africans sitting on a gold mine. It also shows that South africa has no connections whatsoever with the rest of Africa and does not therefore have the moral right to demand for a permanent seat in the UN. Actually what is important is the people not wealth or pretence to be rich. Nigeria, Egypt and Kenya are the ones that are African and should be considered for Security Council permanent seat.
When the last person on this world turns out the light, the discussion over foreigners will cease. It all started with Adam and Eve , the Snake was the foreigner.
The whole Universe should be free for everyone to go where they want, but please under one condition, that they adapt to the surroundings. If they accept that fitting in, abiding by the rules that have been laid down by the host, and trying to speak his language are the basic requirements needed to integrate, then our world would be a much better place.
Sadly that is mostly not the case.
No more to say.
John in Germany.
Am completely disappointed by the behavior portrayed by some South Africans.Truly speaking it was just 1993 when many South Africans were seeking refugee and enjoying various white colar jobs in many of our countries who are neighbours to RSA.And today you have turned against the same people who offered you with that shelter.Its sad am telling you and the whole world is ashamed especially South Africans living abroad.Stop that kind of behavior guys lets learn to accommodate one another in times of trouble like the economic hardships facing Zimbabweans.My advise to those guys undergoing such kind of racial betrayal by your own African brothers and sisters ,it would be good to just go back to your own countries where you can enjoy peace.
MBEKI SHOULD BE BLAMED FOR IT ALL. IT’S HIS POOR LEADERSHIP THAT’S MADE THE BENEFITS OF ENDING APARTHEID NOR SPREAD TO ALL SOUTH AFRICANS BETTER THAN IT DID IN MANDELA’S TIME AS PRESIDENT. INSTEAD THINGS ARE WORSE AND SOUTH AFRICANS FEEL THREATENED AND ARE TURNING ON FOREIGNERS.
IN ADDITION, IF MBEKI HAD HANDLED MUGABE FIRMLY ZIMBABWEWOULD NOT BE THE SORRY CASE IT IS TODAY AND ZIMBABWEANS WOULD NOT NEED TO BE MIGRATING TO SOUTH AFRICA LIKE THEY ARE DOING AND THE SOUTH AFRICAN XENOPHOBIA WOULD NOT REACH THE LEVEL IT HAS.
I find South African Blacks a shame, venting out their frustations on helpless poor, fellow Africans. When White racist beat them and throw them into lion dens, they never riot, choosing instead to target helpless fellow Africans. South Africa is going the way of Zimbabwe very soon, the telltale signs are already there. Very soon you will be back in Africa as in the 80s - wait till Zuma takes over. The difference is that you are now going to find a very hostile Africa. The sacriface some countries like Zambia did, you will never repair.Africans are a shame. Perhaps African teams should boycott the 2010 soccer, which should not have gone to South Africa, in the first place. One thing I have find disturbing through my interaction with South Africans is their general ignorance. I think apartheid education destroyed them forever.
How shocking it must be to discover that you are not only no better but deep down no different from the people you probably despised the most for much of your life. And for the same reason. Fallen off your moral pedistal? Come down to earth? How disillusioning to find there is the same cruel stupid hatred inside, only the names, shapes, and color are different, meaningless details really. In the words of Walt Kelly’s cartoon character Pogo “we have met the enemy and he is us.”
Its dissapointing what this world has became. South Africa should not be allowed to host 2010 FIFA world cup. We wont be safe there after all we are foreigners. How can Thabo Mbeki condon this nonsense? How can he fail to protect non nationals? As a non national resident in South Africa, I dont think the Government is doing enough to maintain peace and protect the so called foreghners.
As for the Zimbabwe political refugees, the appointed mediator is treating bob with kiddie gloves so we as Africans, especially Zambia and South Africa will just have to accept the situation as it is and accomodate them. We can not chase them.
We accomodated exiled South Africans during the appartheid era. What makes this situation with Zimbabwe different?
Hagen NRW Germany
The family and friends of a women, rioted in a German hospital at the weekend, breaking pictures, throwing medical equipment to the floor, and destroying furniture.
This debauch followed the death of a lady following a heart attack. Doctors had tried to save her life, but could not revive her. The trouble started after a doctor informed the waiting people that the lady had died. The hospital called the police, and on their arrival, the visitors called in more of their friends.
Even at the time of grief this type of action is not acceptable, and marks the inherent difference in the culture of different lands. The people were not newcomers to Germany, so that it indicates that integration had not taken place with these persons.
Long discussions as to why cannot answer the problem, and sometimes one just thinks it is a chip on the shoulder problem.
John in Germany
I am a Ugandan and an African at that. I really feel ashamed for South Africans who were well looked after by the same Zimbabweans, Malawians, Mozambicans, etc to be now chasing them and even burning them to death. Almost all African countries have unemployment problems but should we start chasing and killing fellow Africans? The positive in it is for people like Mbeki to realise how much their glove handling of dictators like Mugabe who have ruined their country’s economies causing exodus of refugees does affect them
The violence is deplorable and there needs to be a crackdown against it. But I think that some of the bloggers need to acknowledge that South Africa has an immigration problem and ordinary South Africans are entitled to look to their government to deal with it.
This is also a lesson to those who like to believe that only whites are capable of being racist: racism is universal, and the worst instances of it are to be found outside the West.
When i hear the African peoples standup against themself that sad for them,like what happening between South Africa and Zimbabuwe.I hope well when the aparteide all South African black who get tha way for enter Zimbabuwe this times,that is heavy for him.
I can say is thrue, is because not solidarity in Africa we can not develloping just the end of world.
Thanks….