I’m curious why the US’s birthday isn’t “controversial”? I mean, if you think about it, should British people have some national day of mourning? Should Canadians be sad that day to, given many canadian anglophones used to live in what became the US and left after the rebels won. Why is a question like this asked only about Israel?
Actually, it would be the Native Americans who would have reason to protest. Each “Columbus Day,” they do. They have my moral support - I am one of those who believes in the cause of reparations. I fully understand and sympathise with Palestinians who would similarly protest Israel’s birthday.
Into a peace loving nation where she and all the countries around her can live together.
When the countries that are around her can accept peace and dialogue instead of the rocket and suicide bomb.
I mean, if you think about it, should British people have some national day of mourning? Should Canadians be sad that day to, given many canadian anglophones used to live in what became the US and left after the rebels won.
Why should the British mourn a French win? I will assume you are an American - as as that is the case you should know it was with a great amount of French help that the US became a separate nation. You should also know that their first foray into occupying another country (Canada) in 1812 led to an American defeat.
@ Steve
Well America has it’s day of controversy which seems to be growing more and more. The 4th baby! That is when the Anti-American sentiment comes out the woodwork. It’s also when everyone on the other side of the fence is getting drunk, lighting off fireworks, and waving American flags.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ISRAEL!!!!! Suprise! We have a present for you!!! It’s $3,000,000,000.00 in aid this year for you to waste on your military (well 1.8 of it) so you can further your collective punishment of Palestine!
Have a wonderful B-day!
YOu act as if Israel does what it does for fun. They live near people that teach their kids from birth to hate them and want to kill them. Nations they have made peace with, have hit songs called “I hate Israel
” and Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Mein Kampf are best sellers. That’s from the ones they’ve made peace with!
The Military aid is conditional on that Israel has to buy US made products. It’s a gift to the defense industry in all reality.
France was barely involved, and only after the tide had turned. Their only major involvement was their only naval victory against Britain, possibly ever, off the coast of Virginia.
YOu mean the opposite in 1812? Britain kept on kidnapping american sailors, and Britain attacked the US. The US tried invading canada in 1775, conquered Montreal, but lost at Quebec.
His columns offer an insider’s view of events there from his days as a Revisionist Zionist terrorist to this week. They show the a change from an idealist state to an exploitive one.
The state began with terrorist organizations executing planned genocide and ethnic cleansing. The terrorist leaders became the first prime ministers of Israel.
Albert Einstein, who was offered the presidency of Israel, and Ben Guerion, who became President, both referred to one of those prime ministers as a “Nazi”.
Thus, there has been an exploitive sociopathic vector present in the state since its beginning.
A second major vector is that of the fundamentalist extremists. These benefit a state-supported separate educational system turning out elite “knitted skullcap” cadres.
Although the majority are said to be secular, they are not organized and dispair of the general corruption of Israeli politics.
There is a consensus that the post 1967 Occupation marked a turning point in Israel where it lost its character.
Sharon visited Temple Mount in a effort to provoke an uprising which he would use as a pretext to destroy the Palestinians.
The government armed and funded Gush Emunim terrorists sought to blow up the Mosque in order to bring on an End Times scenario and exterminate the Palestinians.
The continuing policy is that of a boa constrictor, seeking to eliminate the Palestinians by ethnic cleansing.
At the moment, the very fundamentalist and settler-oriented SHAS party must be placated and the sociopathic right-wing Talmudists of Netanyahu must be kept from taking over the government. Since both are imbued with the religio/ethnic ideology, there is no hope of peace. http://otherisrael.home.igc.org/ed.html
There are intelligent and humane groups trying to act decently:
The Military aid is conditional on that Israel has to buy US made products. It’s a gift to the defense industry in all reality.
So it’s a $1.8 billion gift card; It’s still a waste.
YOu act as if Israel does what it does for fun.
The ONLY way to solve this problem is to criticize BOTH sides and their actions. Both sides are wrong and defending one side will only further the problem. Is Palestine wrong? Yes, Hamas is making an existing problem much worse. Is Israel fencing in and punishing all of Palestine for fun? No, but that does not detract from the fact that they still ARE doing it.
To celebrate the creation of Israel is to celebrate the de-humanization of the indigenous people. During Israel’s war of independance they expelled 700,000 Palestinians and passed laws to confiscate land from those who stayed. Israeli citizens who are of Arab descent are treated like blacks were in the 1940’s American South. Those Palestinians who live in the occupied territories are in an apartheid state.
Peter Gizzi, I can agree with you more. The Americans and British fought for the state of Israel to be created in the heart land of Palestine. I hope that they will now fight for the creation of a free and peaceful Palestinian State. Agan, let the Israelis worry about their birthday.
Why does Egypt fence them in too? Why do people ignore that too?
Your right; 2 wrongs do in fact make a right.
Egypt’s boarder is what, 20%? Israel is 80% (give or take a bit). So then is Israel 80% responsible for the suffering since they blockade 80% of the boarder?
I’ll accept that.
Egypt and Israel are handling this situation like Palestine is a child and they can put them in international ‘time-out’. It doesnt work that way…
I didn’t want to take away from Israels shine though, seeing as how it is the birthday brat. But yes, Egypt blocks in Palestine too, and yes, they are just as wrong.
AS COMPARED TO 52 ISLAMIC REPUBLICS INCLUDING THE LAST TWO, PAKISTAN AND BANGLADESH, CREATED IN 1947,YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE ON EARTH. WHY SHOULD ANYONE BEGRUDGE YOUR BIRTH AND EXISTENCE.
MAY YOU THRIVE.
WITH REGARD TO PALESTINIAN REFUGEES, DO NOT FORGET THE FIFTEEN MILLION OF US FORCED OUT OF OUR HOMES FROM SINDH, BALUCHISTAN, WEST PUNJAB, NWFP, NORTH KASHMIR AND EAST BENGAL WITHIN WEEKS IN 1947.
WE DECIDED NOT TO GO UNDER THE DEGRADING UMBRELLA CALLED “REFUGEE”. BEING PROUD SIKHS AND HINDUS, WE ARE SCATTERED ACROSS THE GLOBE AND ARE DOING VERY WELL. THANK YOU.
I HOPE THE VAST ARAB LANDS ALSO HAVE A TINY PLACE FOR YOU, THEIR FELLOW MUSLIMS.
BEST OF LUCK, ONCE AGAIN, ISRAEL. MAKE SURE THAT YOU ALSO HAVE DEFENCE IN DEPTH.
The foregoing asserts that Israel does what it does “because it is surrounded by enemies”.
The essence of the religio/ethnic ideology is that all the “others” are enemies and not to be tolerated except as “daily humiliated servants” within an undefined “Greater Israel”.
This Greater Israel may extend from the Nile to the Euphrates and some claim Iran and Saudi Arabia. Sharon simply said “Biblically defined” Greater Israel.
Of course, as the range of rockets increases, the security zone needed will extend to Pakistan, etc.
France was barely involved with the fighting in the US during the Revolutionary war. Yorktown was in 1781, 6 years after it began. Britain and France only went to war in 1778, 3 years after it began. Who do you think was fighting on their own for years?
His columns offer an insider’s view of events there from his days as a Revisionist Zionist terrorist to this week. They show the change from an idealist state to an exploitive one.
______________________________________-
His columns offer an insider’s view of events there from his days as a Revisionist Zionist terrorist to this week. They show the a change from an idealist state to an exploitive one.
______________________________________-
Xie _ Ming, nobody even needs to write a defense for the creation of Israel. It exists, it’s not going anywhere. Ar eyou prepared to accept it finally? Unless you have a time machine, aren’t you working yourself up into a frenzy over nothing? repeat after me Xie_Ming: Israel exists, and no matter how much I hate it, it won’t be destroyed. Time to accept reality. Perhaps the Palestinians will realize this to so they can get a country for the first time in history, and live in peace.
At the moment, the very fundamentalist and settler-oriented SHAS party must be placated and the sociopathic right-wing Talmudists of Netanyahu must be kept from taking over the government. Since both are imbued with the religio/ethnic ideology, there is no hope of peace.
Wow, 60 years old ! I would worry sooooooo much if I reached that far ! :-). As the human being grows older, he should grow wiser, he should have developed a precious respect-worthy life-time experience, his moral conscience should’ve evolved and and become mature, he now after all those years should be able to see how the things should go not only through his eyes but also through the ‘other’s eyes… Does all that apply to 60 years old Israel ?! I do hope so, but unfortunately good wishes are one thing and reality is another thing… You should be able to recognise and strongly condemn the defect no matter where the defect is, even within your own self right ?! With my love. Yours forever, Lubna.
Steve,
Two wrongs do not a right make. Just because Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the rest of those rich Arab nations ignore Palestine into a wasteland does not make it right for Israel to press it into an increasingly smaller space by slicing off land and placing it behind a Wall, or invading it daily and firing missiles at militants and civilians alike without giving anyone at all the benefit of a trial, etc. Most world governments criticise Hamas and oher Palestinian movements. Therefore, I see no reason for the average Joe to include them in their criticisms of Israel. When Israel, as the occupying force with the military power to back its occupation (and existence, frankly) can conduct itself civilly and humanely, the world will have a chance to turn its eye to Palestinian wrongs.
The foregoing post gently calls for maturity and self-examination on the part of Israel.
A Tel Aviv clinical psychiatrist, Grossbart, has written a book titled “Israel on the Couch”. From his patients, he sees a nation fixated at an adolescent stage.
There is an organization that strives mightily to help Israel toward a mature, decent and ethical conduct toward those whom it oppresses:
Brett:
On the Gaza side of the Israel-Gaza border is a state (de facto if not de jure) actively at war with Israel. For what purpose should Israel allow border crossing?—and yet she does allow (with security restrictions) Gazans to receive hospital care in Israel.
As for Israel being an “apartheid state”, answer me why Arabs are allowed citizenship in Israel but Judea, Samaria, and Gaza must become judenrein in any negotiated peace settlement?
Ross:
I never thought someone would have to bring a discussion of the Israeli-Arab conflict back on-topic, when the topic is inescapable in every other thread!
Xie Ming:
Your reference to Jews treating “‘others’ … as ‘daily humiliated servants’” is taken directly from the most vicious fabrications from antisemitic propaganda. I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but a quick search turns up your repeated use of this canard. In fact, I’ve not been able to find other references to this supposed quote from the Talmud except by you.
I can not and will not, nor should anybody, take seriously your position as an honest questioner of Israel’s actions. Whatever her faults, you have no credibility when they are under discussion.
If this be ad hominem, make the most of it.
Happy birthday to Isriel & better future along with dignity & respect. Being victom of Ghandhi’s hipocracy & political failour I paid the most price of migration from Sonipat India to Pakistan beside loosing Estate & status I lost my birth mother too as I born in a refugee camp in Lahore Pakistan.
Isralies I understand price of Hollocust & refuge, which is really tough & may not be understand by the non sufferors. On the other hand I really appreciate the Phalistianian nation not to join the Nazi Hitler war as during refuge Phalistianian embraces Jewish sufferors.
Finally I pray for peace & sucess for the region.
I think this is a very important question. Israel celebrates its 60th anniversary as the homeland for the Jewish people. But, with fast growing minority Arab populations (that will soon increase to become a MAJORITY IN Israel) and the obvious violence that exists, Israel will have to evolve into a state with a new national identity with assimilated minorities.
During Israel’s war of independance they expelled 700,000 Palestinians and passed laws to confiscate land from those who stayed.
——————————–
—- Israel was attacked by Arabs on the day of it’s creation. Outnumbered in population by 50 to 1. Some Palestinians were expelled, others fled the fighting that their arab neighbors started. The timeline of events completely escapes the grasp of those who should know better but only wish to present one side.
Nobody attacked Jordan when it was created the year before. Just as many Pals in Jordon as in Palestine. So why attack Israel when Jews have lived there from time immemorial?
Israel is not a perfect democracy, more like a democratic military state, but Palestinians are citizens there with rights. All Jews have had to flee Palestinian controlled lands. Israeli Palestinians and Jews conduct business and socialize with each other in Israel. If a Jew is caught in Palestinian lands, he is killed brutally. If a Palestinian is merely rumored to be working with Israeli military in Pal controlled lands, he’s publically dragged from his family and very brutally killed by militant vigilantes.
Pal apologists never acknowledge the 1 million Jewish refugees from the middle east and North Africa who have fled for their lives to the safety of Israel since 1948. Christians and other minority religions have fled to other parts of the globe. No reparations or guarantee of repatriation for those folks.
Until the Pals can escape the grasp of the death cult they have created, they are doomed to a terrible existance. They had it pretty nice compared to most middle eastern Arabs before they restarted the infitada with waves of suicide bombers in 2000. They collapsed the fragile Israeli peace coalition, thereby ushering in their own hell in the form of Sharon.
Egypt and Jordan not attacking Israel as they have peaceful diplomatic relations, so Israel’s not in military conflict with them. Most in Israel want a Palestinian state. It means peace. Most in Palestine want Israel destroyed if actions are to be believed. If Palestinians wish to be treated humanely, they should start with themselves and their neighbors. Children and peace loving Pals and Israelis deserve better.
Ball’s been in the Palestinian court for 60 yrs, and for 60 years they keep dropping it and their apologists keep on apologizing and blaming Israel. Ridiculous, but truth much stranger than fiction.
Well, Happy Birthday Israel. Maybe one day you can celebrate with Palestinians.
Mr,Johny,
Before writing minority to Phalistanians please study histry, infact you are victom of Contiminated media too, as Phalistanian muslims already paid enough price for there hospotility & sympathy with jewish nation.
Since its creation, Israel has been the focus of the international media and policy. It’s one of the rare states that are rarely not in the news whose existence and policies raise debates by friends and foes. For some it’s a role model of democracy in the Middle East as the countries surrounding it are ruled through one party system as it is the case of Syria or through a dominant party despite the existence of others as it is the case in Egypt.
In the past sixty years, it outlived the storms surrounding it. It had no friendly neighbouring state. Its existence depends on the generous aids of the USA and the strong Jewish lobby around the world that secures it from the sanctions of the Security Council in regards to its policies towards the Palestinians. Still it isn’t a secure state as there are countries after it like Iran as there are armed groups like Hezbollah waiting for any moment to inflict on it the heaviest blows in the hope of seeing it dead rather than continuing to celebrate its birthdays year after year.
The Middle East needs the birth of a really peaceful policy for everyone to live in peace. While Israel is counting the years since it was born, others are counting the deaths it has inflicted on the Palestinians, making the two sides look like Tom and Jerry. They can’t feel at ease without playing cat and mouse, just for the fun of it or by being serious about it.
One thing is sure. Israel is now a fact. It’s a fait accompli whether its enemies like it or not. But still it has to show more resilience towards the Palestinians as it is now in a strong position. Capitalizing on their weaknesses to go ahead with its intransigent policies will just perpetuate the current conflict.
So let’s hope that in its next birthday, Israel will have grown into a state with internationally recognised borders and the Palestinians have their free state instead of continuing to feel as Israel’s collective prisoners.
What kind of question is that? Do I think Britain has justified its creation? NO! Do I think the BBC has justified its creation? NO! The answer to the question is that the question itself is anti-semitic and intended to arouse hatred. Where is the self censorship of BBC? It’s OK to censor those who respond with this kind of talk but this thread should be removed.
Israel’s existance doesn’t have to be justified to anyone by anyone. We know that Europe KNEW that the holocaust was going on. They persecuted the Jews for over a thousand years. Europe’s attitude to a harmless pacifist people who lived among them ranged from tolerating them with hatred to beating them, robbing them, killing them, eventually trying to kill every last one of them. In the process, Europeans were turned into savages, hardly better than rabid animals. A lot of Europeans would like to see the Moslems finish off what Hitler started. This is why Israel doesn’t trust Europe and why any peace negotiations must involve the US, Israel’s only real friend.
The US recognized the State of Israel 11 minutes after it declared its independence. Of all the issues between the US and Europe, global warming, trade, the war on terror, Israel is by far the most contentious. The United States will stand by Israel no matter what, much to Europe’s chagrin.
Those who wish Israel ill should keep in mind that in all probability, Israel has the third largest arsenal of nuclear weapons in the world, possibly more now than Britain and France combined. Only the US and Russia have more. Some of those weapons may be fusion weapons too. Israel has the power to use those weapons to bring an end to all human life on earth in any one of several ways. Not necessarily at once but in not to long a time just as surely as the US or Russia could. Should Israel face the likelihood of extinction one day, there is no reason to believe that it would not take the rest of us with it. The looming prospect of a nuclear armed Iran determined to destroy Israel is something that should strike fear in every sane person on earth. Whether it is Hillary Clinton, Dr. Rice, or President Bush, they speak about Israel with one voice. America’s threat to Iran is very real also.
Happy Birthday Israel. 60 years of taking Palestinian land. 60 years of mass killings and murders. 60 years of destroying houses and lives. 60 years of existing through different wars. Thats an accomplishment.. Your deserve to celebrate.
Mark The answer to the question is that the question itself is anti-semitic and intended to arouse hatred. Where is the self censorship of BBC?
Why is this argument always posed when anti-Israeli comments are made?
Being Anti-America does not make you Anti-Christian; Being Anti-Iran does not make you Anti-Muslim; Just as being Anti-Israel (or questioning their actions) does not make you or the question posed Anti-Semitic.
Israel is a war criminal state. No rational human being should celebrate 60 years of atrocities. If Israel returns to the 1967 borders, then we can celebrate that state.
Meanwhile, question for the BBC: One in five Israelis are Arab. Will you, in your week of interviewing an Israeli each day, devote one in five days to an Arab.
Prediction: Of course not. Just as a murderous Israeli population dehumanizes the Palestinian people, so too does the BBC and western media generally.
“The answer to the question is that the question itself is anti-semitic and intended to arouse hatred. Where is the self censorship of BBC?
Why is this argument always posed when anti-Israeli comments are made?
Being Anti-America does not make you Anti-Christian; Being Anti-Iran does not make you Anti-Muslim; Just as being Anti-Israel (or questioning their actions) does not make you or the question posed Anti-Semitic.”
No other country ever has similar questions posted about it. Wheres the: “Do you think the palestinians have justified the ceding of land by Israel?” Since they: elected terrorists to power, continue to attack Israel, and hold mass celebrations over civilian deaths I would have to say hell no. The bias against Israel is incredible and the Palestinians deserve nothing but my eternal contempt. I can only hope one day they finally push Israel too far and the Pallys are finally taught a hard lesson.
“Israel is a war criminal state. No rational human being should celebrate 60 years of atrocities. If Israel returns to the 1967 borders, then we can celebrate that state.”
You realize that 1967 was 41 years ago, so how have there been 60 years of atrocities? Oh yeah, I forget, It’s Israel’s fault 6 arab nations tried to destroy it in 1948, then lost, then decided to occupy Gaza and the West Bank until 1967, when they lost it. All that mean while they never gave the Palestinians independence, but let’s blame everything on Israel.
I guess, to make you happy Ian, I will drink shots of Sabra and eat Jaffa oranages on Thursday.
“Just as a murderous Israeli population dehumanizes the Palestinian people, so too does the BBC and western media generally.”
Yes, all Israelis are murderers and victimize Palestinians. ZzzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz. Am Yisrael Chai.
Israel is a corrupt and illegitimate entity occupying Palestine.
Its existence has cost thousands of lives and millions of my tax dollars to maintain its unlawful occupation.
Israel’s formation is based on taking land from one group of people and giving it to another. The false premises are that the UN had the right to do that, it did not. The UN is not a world government with the power of eminent domain. Nor did the Palestinian people consent to the partition of their country.
Why is Israel the only country on earth that for some reason has to prove it’s legitimacy? Why is Bangledesh legitimate, but not Israel? Why is India, but not Israel? Why is Canada? Why is France?
If your basis for this conclusion is based upon taking land from others, assume away that Jews are from there in the first place, why is the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand legitimate? Do you think the vast majority of those countries are the natives? I think it’s time to end the double standards people have when they single out israel for deligitimization and criticism.
There is no logical reason why you should think Canada has a right to exist if you think Israel has no right to exist. Care to explain it in a manner that just doesn’t say “but but, they are Jews, hence I need a different standard!”
I was interested to see whether this debate could be carried out fully and, if necessary, fiercely, without that boring old slur ‘anti-semitic’ appearing at any point. It’s become a cheap shot at intimidation and should be thrown out of the vocabulary of the modern world. But: too much to hope for!
I’d say that Israel has a lot to answer for in the area of human rights violations but has, unfortunately, for all sorts of primitive reasons, been rendered untouchable.
Before celebrating any birthdays, I hope the State of Israel will first attend to the birth of a just and free Palestinian state.
At a deeper level, I hope the State of Israel will finally come to learn that a cycle of violence can never be ended by recourse to violence.
1. The Jews were not there in the first place. Where was Abraham born?
2. Israel cannot be rationalized because of how other countries were formed. Clearly Palestine was recognizable geo-political area. Its their lands, and you and no one else has the right to take it away from them including the UN.
3. Where do you live Steve? I live in Cleveland, Ohio, USA. Do you live in Palestine under Israel occupation?
Jews have lived in what is Now Israel since your ancestors lived in caves and wore skins. There have been jews continously living there for thousands of years now. There has never been a time within the past several thousand years that no Jews have lived there.
I don’t understand your second point. India/Pakistan were created by paritioning a landmass. East Timor was created by the UN, and I know Indonesia wasn’t happy about that. Why do you single out Israel? There is absolutely no difference between the US/canada/Aus/NZ and Israel other than the fact that Jews at least originated there. A Swedish-American is any less a “settler” on someone else’s land in Minnesota???
I live in Virginia, and unless you are a native American in Ohio, you have no business criticizing Israel for something you aren’t willing to do yourself. Why don’t you give your property back to the native americans it was stolen from? Did you have any objection to arab occupation of the west bank and gaza from 1947-1967 by Egypt and Jordan???
Read about Black September in 1970. The arabs have been far more brutal to the Palestinians than Israel ever has. Also, the arabs keep Palestinians in refugee camps whereas Israel didn’t keep Jews expelled from muslim countries in refugee camps. The arabs really need to stop using the Palestinians as pawns in their war against Israel.
Another thing, is when you hear about Sabra and Shitilla, people immediate shout “war crime! ariel sharon!” despite him not having done it. It was committed by the arab brothers of the Palestinians, because they absolutley hated each other. Palestinians would slaughter christians, muslims would slaughter christians, and christians would slaughter muslims/palestinians. They absolutely LOATHED each other because they were fighting a civil war that the Palestinians decided to get into the middle of due to the vacuum in lebanon. So while Ariel Sharon is a “war criminal” for not doing it, the person who actually committed the atrocitied, Hokeiba not only was considered a hero, but was elected to the Lebanese parliament! But again, if it’s easier to blame israel for everything, and ignore everything else, go ahead.
Happy birthday, Israel. If fighting is equated with work, boy, have you earned your country!
Mark is right on the mark, lol. If the world decides Israel has no right to exist, then Israel has the equal right to decide the world has no right to exist.
By noon of September 15th, the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) had completely surrounded the Sabra-Shatila camps, and controlled all entrances and exits by the means of checkpoints. The IDF also occupied a number of multi-story buildings as observation posts. Amongst those was the seven-story Kuwaiti embassy which, according to TIME, had “an unobstructed and panoramic view” of the camps. Hours later, IDF tanks began shelling the camps.[12]
Ariel Sharon and Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan[14] met with the Lebanese Phalangist militia units, inviting them to enter the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps to clean out “terrorist nests”. Under the Israeli plan, Israeli soldiers would control the perimeters of the refugee camps and provide logistical support while the Phalangists would enter the camps, find the PLO fighters and hand them over to Israeli forces.[citation needed] The meetings concluded at 3:00 p.m. September 16.[12]
An hour later, 1,500 Christian militiamen assembled at Beirut International Airport, then occupied by Israel. Under the command of Elie Hobeika, they began moving towards the camps in IDF supplied jeeps, following Israeli guidance on how to enter the camps. The forces were mostly Phalangist, though there were some men from Saad Haddad’s “Free Lebanon forces”.[12]
The first unit of 150 Phalangists, armed with guns, knives and hatchets entered the camps at 6:00 p.m. Immediately the unit began slitting throats, axing, shooting, and raping, often taking groups outside and lining them up for execution.[12] During the night the Israeli forces fired illuminating flares over the camps. According to a Dutch nurse, the camp was as bright as “a sports stadium during a football game”.[15]
At 11:00 p.m. a report was sent to the IDF headquarters in East Beirut, reporting the killings of 300 people, including civilians. The report was forwarded to headquarters in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, where it was seen by more than 20 senior Israeli officers.
The Kahan commission found that Ariel Sharon “bears personal responsibility” and recommended his dismissal from the post of Defense Minister, stating that:
It is our view that responsibility is to be imputed to the minister of defense for having disregarded the prospect of acts of vengeance and bloodshed by the Phalangists against the population of the refugee camps and for having failed to take this danger into account when he decided to have the Phalangists enter the camps. In addition, responsibility is to be imputed to the minister of defense for not ordering appropriate measures for preventing or reducing the chances of a massacre as a condition for the Phalangists’ entry into the camps…
Even though the Kahan Commission concluded that Sharon should not hold public office again, he would later become Prime Minister of Israel
Steve
May 6, 2008 at 5:54 pm But again, if it’s easier to blame israel for everything, and ignore everything else, go ahead.
10 Brett
May 5, 2008 at 4:20 pm
The ONLY way to solve this problem is to criticize BOTH sides and their actions. Both sides are wrong and defending one side will only further the problem. Is Palestine wrong? Yes, Hamas is making an existing problem much worse. Is Israel fencing in and punishing all of Palestine for fun? No, but that does not detract from the fact that they still ARE doing it.
I’m a bit confused on this one… I’m not blaming israel for everything, nor have I ever. I’m not ignoring everything else, but pointing out that Israel is wrong. Same goes for Palestine. Both are in the wrong. Is that an unnaceptable statement? Or would you just like me to focus equal criticism on Palestine as well? I certainly could do that. Can one person here say that, without argument, either side is 100% justified and correct? Doubtful.
Of course not, both sides have fault, but I’ve found in my history of discussing this issue, that the pro-palestinian people and many arabs in general blame 100% of the problem on Israel, and in fact blame every problem they have on Israel. How could peace be possible when people are taught to hate Israelis and Jews from the day they are born?
It’s like the “peace” between Israel and Egypt. It’s a peace between the governments, not the people. Egyptians are buying books like the Protocols, songs like “i hate Israel” are best sellers, and given the popularity of the Muslim Brotherhood there, it looks like if they ever took over, they would immiediately ignore the peace treaty.
Peace needs to be on a personal level as well as a government level. Palestinian youths are taught to hate Jews, by the government.
So let me understand, because Sharon let it happen, he didn’t anticipate it, or at worst allowed the Phalangists to do it, he’s worse than the people that actually did it? So he’s a war criminal, but the guy who did it isn’t? I’m trying to understand the logic behind that other than He’s Israeli, and Hokeiba isn’t. hokeiba was later elected to the lebanese parliament, yet he ordered the massacre.
And why are the other slaughters never mentioned? Because Israel wasn’t involved? It’s not like this was the only one. it’s the only one that gets any attention.
Just skimming the surface: the State of Israel has nothing to celebrate other than 60 years of existence. The rest is a tale of ongoing violence, in which the Israeli state must accept a big part of the blame, including the shame of massive human rights violations.
How come Israel can’t accept what South Africa accepted: one united state with different ethnic groups in its make up?
And, isn’t it time to reject comments that contain the term ‘anti-semitic’? This outdated carrot and stick taboo really must go out the window now. It’s overplayed to the extent that it’s become quite meaningless.
I hope the State of Israel will soon grow up and realize that you cannot put an end to a cycle of violence by perpetrating violence, even so-called retaliatory violence.
Because Israelis don’t want to commit national suicide, that’s why. Because you want Israel to cease to exist doesn’t make Israelis have to agree with you by committing national suicide. I’m sure they would just love to live in a Sharia state ruled by hamas.
1- Theh settlements are wrong. if the settlers intend to stay maybe they should understand that they need to do this on their own and not demand protection from Israel. i was born in 1945 in what was then the British Protectorate of Palestine. In 1948 it became the State of Israel. I feel that israelis have forgotten that they are Jews, nd why the state was created int he first place, What a shame. My familyl iived through the wars of 1945,1948 and 1956. I am proud of what the nation has accomplished but very disappointed in what it has become.
You didnt answer my question. Abraham was born in Mesopotamia. The Hebrew tribes left that area about 1400BC in search of that fabled “promised land”. Oddly enough there are other people living there, in Abrahams case the Canannites. The Jews did not originate in what is now Israel or ancient Israel for that matter.
The Hebrews ended up living in Egypt for a very long time. After leaving there they lived in the desert for 40 years. Still looking for a more permanent place to live Joshua and his horde of Hebrew hobos fell upon Jericho and massacred the people living there as testified in their own folklore book (Joshua 6:21)killing every man and woman, young and old. Not only did they kill the inhabitants they killed the livestock as well. I hereby nominate Joshua as the grandfather of terrorism. Talk about a double standard: while in the desert they supposedly received the law of Moses which said “THOU SHALL NOT COVET, THOU SHALL NOT KILL, THOU SHALL NOT STEAL”.
Why Jericho? Its an oasis.
Biblical Israel ceased to exist 600BC. Its not a matter of who lived where. Jews have lived all over the world. Its a matter of geo-political entities.
Over that area then came Persians, Romans and then Arabs. I mark the Arab existence by the creation of the Dome of the Rock, built 690AD, 1300 years of continuous existence.
You constantly throwing out how other countries came into existence is a red herring. It doesnt matter, whether its Canada, Kenya or Latvia, each case has to be considered on its own merits. I dont know of any clamor in India to return Pakistan or in Pakistan to be annexed back to India.
The facts are quite clear, the Palestinians did not agree to have there lands taken and the UN is not a world government that can confiscate lands.
As for as my “double standard” what about yours? Why are you not willing to give back your Virginia lands to native Americans while you demand the Palestinians give theirs to the Hebrews?
And I dont know anything about the Arab occupation of Gaza 47-67, but that seems to be a past event another dodge on your part. The occupation of Palestine is still on going. Occupation by whomever is wrong.
I was in Tel-Aviv on the second anniversary. Israel more than justified its creation not only for the need to have their own state but for the fact the Jews were scattered all over the world also they were subjugated in more ways than one. In my schooling days I was told by non jews quote ‘ you dont have a country of your own’ and other insulting words. One should remember the Spanish inquisition when jews were put to death unless they changed their religin and become catholics. They were also put into slavery by the ancient Eygtians for 400 years. Further, the six million jews that died under the guttersnipe Hitler regime, had their properties confiscated, the oversized and fat Goering acquired most of the properties for himself. Many jews known as the Jewish Brigade fought with the British army against Germany. The Romans when they were powerful conquered Jerusalem and the surrounding areas which was the home of religious and non religious jews and stole all the wealth that belonged to the jews, took it back to Rome together with several jews as slaves to work, and from the proceeds built the Collissium and other buildings with the jews having to do most if not all the work. One can see a replica of the religious Menorah they stole from the great Synagogue in Jerusalem in one of the Arches in Rome.The Romans pilferd a bundle of wealth and rejoyced of having done so.
The question is asked ” Do you think Israel has justified it creation” It goes without saying, the answer:-” Very much more than justified”.
Today we hear countries around Israel, Iran and the terrorist leadership of Hamas, their leaders openly stateing that they want to destroy Israel. For them it makes political capital in so doing for their own selfish ends.Iran does not fool me they are bent in making nuclear weapons, whilst they pretend its for peaceful purposes, who are they kidding?. They see that Israel has bloomed and created from the desert a beutiful country and they are jealous of the fact. The same jealousy under the Germans, Spanish, and the distant past Egyptian regimes not to mention others too that felt that way. Iran, Hamas and any other should wake up to the fact Israel is here to stay.
In the 1950s surrounding Israel, Eygypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq & libya went to war openly declairing to drive the jews into the sea, instead they lost bitterly and lost some of their own land in the process, Israel gave back to Egypt the land they lost and to Syria most of what they lost except the Golan hieghts which was used by Syria to fire upon settlements into Israel. Had Israel lost the war would they have got back the land of Israel, definitely not. Will China give back Tibet to the Tibetans? Will Russia give back the Islands they took from Japan, or give back to Finland the land they took in world war 2, not likely, and they preside in the United Nations.
I end with “HAPPY BIRTHDAY ISRAEL”.
Both Israel and her supporters may be silly and foolish. The HOLY GOD of Abraham, Issic and Jacob first led you out of slavery from Egype to that land but now you think westerners and washington is gods that put you in that land.You should read the Bible from book of Moses to book of 4 Ezra and if you says it is liars then we will see what will HOLY ONE says for us in future.
“Harder than the ‘lesson’ they are already being taught?”
Yes, obviously much harder. I do not think providing food, fuel, and medical care constitutes a hard lesson. Firing a missile directly at Palestinian’s for EACH rocket they fire might, however, constitute a hard lesson.
Ever seen the movie swordfish? That is how you deal with terrorists (which by my definition the vast majority of Palestinians clearly are since they elected terrorists by overwhelming majority). If they kill an Israeli citizen - destroy a village.
All over the world Muslim terrorists use brutal tactics and double speak to advance their directives. I think it is only right to fight fire with fire. I for one am sick and tired of seeing them celebrate every civilian death from ‘93 WTC to the Mercaz Harav yeshiva attacks. They deserve to be taught that such things do NOT go unpunished. Take off the kid gloves, thats all I am saying.
No, I don’t remember saying that I don’t want Israel to exist. What I’m saying is, why can’t some sort of socio-political deal be found, in terms of which Israelis and Palestinians can share one territory?
I’m quite sure that a deal could be struck,of which the outcome does not have to be a Sharia state ruled by Hamas; that is, a negotiated settlement of all the power-sharing mechanisms, with certain non-starters etc.
What other way forward? I mean, is it an either/or situation in which only one winner takes all? In that case the violence will never cease.
And please, please, please, to criticize and probe the Israeli situation is not the same as wanting Israel not to exist. That is hysterical nonsense.
What’s your plan? that Israel should keep at it until one of the two sides in the conflict ceases to exist? That is genocidal thinking.
I hope that, instead of celebrating 60 years of conflict and violence-ridden existence, the State of Israel (which has a right to exist) will, instead, pause to deeply consider a new way forward. In doing this, it would do well to look back at the process begun by the hero Yitzhak Rabin, and finally shake off the Sharon-Netanyahu mentality. Then Israel (which has a right to exist) can exist in a worthwhile way, and have not only a right to exist but also some joy in existing - and give the same right to a happy existence to the Palestinians as well (who also have a right to exist).
“one state solution” is the PC term for not wanting Israel to exist. It would be a muslim majority nation, muslims would impose sharia. Jews would live as 3rd class citizens. Why would Israelis want that? Would you want that? I’m thinking not, so don’t ask Israelis to do what you wouldn’t want either.
There will be no “one state”. Accept it, and then think about the future realizing that.
I believe that’s way extreme, however Israel is being very lenient with the palestinians. If any other country had rockets being fired at them, they would have been turned into a parking lot. I cannot imagine how the Us would respond to Mexico if Tijuanas would launch rockets at san Diego. Mexico would be a giant graveyard.
Israel is under intense media scrutiny, they don’t hide wha tthey do, so they are under a microscope.
“What I’m saying is, why can’t some sort of socio-political deal be found, in terms of which Israelis and Palestinians can share one territory?”
How would you possibly expect peace to exist when one group (Pallys) have elected a group who calls for the termination of Israel? That is why s deal cannot be found. Throughout all of this, the only thing Israel has asked for is an end to suicide bombings and rockets. It has NEVER happened, even when they gave up their own frigging territory. It is beyond stupid to believe that a deal can be reached in that environment.
@ Steve
It is extreme, but we are talking about fighting extreme people. The about of slack we cut Muslims around the world is quite frankly appalling, and they run a mile for every inch given. No other religion has such a track record of sponsoring horribly violent attacks. It is sanctioned in their holy book, which is blatantly discriminatory (read it your self if you do not believe). There is no hope in the middle east.
1. How did the Arabs learn terrorism? Could someone tell me who bombed the King David Hotel in 1946? Hamas or Hezbollah?
2. The fact that Jews suffered at the Spanish inquisition, under the Romans (as all those in the Roman Empire did as do all the supplicants of any empire) and by the most heinous and vile event in history, mass murder by the Nazis; what is the justification of seizing Palestinian lands?
What say-so did the Palestinians have about Partition?
What did the Palestinians receive in compensation?
3. Does it not bother any of you that Israel has wiped Palestine off the map? Prior to 1948 there was a Palestine, look at a map today and its missing.
4.And Israel continues to acquire more territory. Why do the put settlements on the West Bank? What is the West Bank the west bank of?
3. Does it not bother any of you that Israel has wiped Palestine off the map? Prior to 1948 there was a Palestine, look at a map today and its missing.
Um, actually the actions of the Arabs in 1948 were the reason there’s no Palestine today. Had the arabs not attacked in 1948, there would be a 60 year old Palestine today. The arabs attacked, trying to kill the Jews, and they failed at that, but did take Gaza and the West Bank, and DID NOT GIVE THE PALESTINIANS INDEPENDENCE. Yet you blame Israel. Interesting.
TEHRAN - Is that all there is to it?
Friday Prayers, now this and Church bells ring on Sundays.
Before Muslims were Muslims, Moses spelt it out in his 613 precepts. Again, whether you are a Muslim, Christian or Jew, try and remember the Ten Commandments.
The essence and dividing line between ascetic values and immorality is very thin, even subtle: But there it is, otherwise, conscience creeps in. Keep it simple.
Jews in the late fourties and early fifties in London worked as tailors, shoe makers, and hairdressers. Nothing wrong in that, but try reminding them of who they are today. A bit of humble pie wouldn’t hurt.
There was none of the animosity between races and religions we see today, because everyone tried to blend into society. Environment may be the hidden factor in evolution, and a happy ending to the saga.
Is that all there is to Zion?
Surely, the legacy of Ephrahim has a long way to go. There are so many questions that have been left answered. The Balfour Manifesto was a beginning, but Israel, Judaism and Zionists are no nearer to solving the ultimate issue. Philosophy must be reconciled to religion, which is impossible without prophecy.
Also, the location of Israel as the land of Zion is undecided.
God decided where Israel would be lovated thousands of years ago.
negative Palestinian behavior is not the responsibility of the Israelis , who act out of religious hatred….but that is not Israel’s fault….the people need to learn to control themselves.
Hi Marianne
The Bible says: “I the Lord thy father shall point the way to Zion,” or something like that. Don’t forget, the lights must shine, Shekina in Hebrew.
What I am getting at is that Hebrew is a language tool, belonging to everyone.
The same with Arabic, the tongue of your good brothers, remember; but obviously some of that has been lost in the course of history.
Rgds,
Don’t take it to heart.
I am not against any people group. I am against evil behavior. The Israeils have been “shining” much better than the Palestinians. But with HAMAS there, it seems hopeless to help them change.,
What a pointless series of exchanges this has been ? .
I am reading this on 8 May 2008 for those who are too young and infantile to recognise that date it was V E Day in 1945 .
We thought then we would have peace and contenment all over the world
It is also by the Hebrew Calendar the date the out numbered Jews in the Land of Israel decided to rule themselves - the British having said they were going .
No one expected the Jews to survive - I remember our school porter an ex B ritian Army sergeant saying ” the Arabs will wipe the Jews out in two weeks -after all we trained the Egyptians , Iraqis and Trans Jordanians un der sir John Glubb !
If Israel had not been established who would the Arabs and my erstwhile comrades on the Left have blamed for all their self inflicted wounds .?
In 1945 we hoped for a better world .
In 1948 too having seen the Muslims of India insisting on separating themselves from India in order to have their own state I wondered why should the Jews not have theirs ?
Now I would rather live in Israel than Pakistan any time .
So HAPPY BIRTHDAY Israel you have worked wonders as anyone who goes there can see - and may you have peace one day when your “cousins ” decide to settle down .
What ever we say about Israel, we remember that Israel is located in a very hostile neighbourhood. It some times naturally reacts to protect itself. Let’s not forget that Palestinians are doing themselves a favour either!
It is hard to believe that this conflict isn’t even as old as my parents. It is kind of like celebrating an infection. “Yah, it is big and painful and full of puss. I can’t believe it hasn’t popped.” Because of Israel, a lot of people find reasons to threaten and fight with each other. Our politicians are willing to kill millions of men, women, and children who have no concern with politics if the leaders of one country attack Israel.
I have to agree that I wonder what the colonization, battle for independence, and civil war of the United States would have looked like if it had occurred in the year 2000. Would the rest of the have put up with putting a price on an “Indian’s” head, murdering full villages, and slavery?
I guess in respect to Israel, Timing is everything.
So god creates people just so that the Israelis can kill, starve them, finacialy enslave them, and take land they had held for thousands of years from them for revolting? Man that “God” dude is pretty sick in the head. He seems to be a Saddist. His son was much cooler.
Hi WHYS,
What ever we say about Israel, we should remember that Israel is located in a very hostile neighbourhood. It some times naturally reacts to protect itself. Let’s not forget that Palestinians are doing themselves a favour either!
In joining in the celebration of Israel, may we note that, in 2002, the former Chief Rabbi of Israel, citing his Scripture, told the settlers to steal the olives of the Palestinians, because all trees in Greater Israel “belonged to the Jews”.
And, with the help of the Israeli Army, it was done!
_____________________
The tragedy of the people of Palestine is that their country was “given” by a foreign power to another people for the creation of a new state. The result was that many hundreds of thousands of innocent people were made permanently homeless. With every new conflict their numbers increased. How much longer is the world willing to endure this spectacle of wanton cruelty? It is abundantly clear that the refugees have every right to the homeland from which they were driven, and the denial of this right is at the heart of the continuing conflict. No people anywhere in the world would accept being expelled en masse from their own country; how can anyone require the people of Palestine to accept a punishment which nobody else would tolerate? A permanent just settlement of the refugees in their homeland is an essential ingredient of any genuine settlement in the Middle East. We are frequently told that we must sympathise with Israel because of the suffering of the Jews in Europe at the hands of the Nazis. […] What Israel is doing today cannot be condoned, and to invoke the horrors of the past to justify those of the present is gross hypocrisy.
Congratulation Israel.
We respect Israel in all the development that it has done in middle east, which include amongst others, the development of a state that is govern by the rule of law and democratic state. Having stated the above it is also time that Israel respects its neighbours and their right of existance. It time Israel extends hand for peace to their Arab brothers, this is because Israel enjoys good relationship with the western countries. It is Israel to take the first step in peace making in the middle east!!
Congratulation Again Israel
Why are you blaming Israel for the actions of the arab invading armies? If they didn’t attack, there would be a 60 year old palestine today. Why didn’t they give them independence either? Egypt and Jordan occupied Gaza and the West Bank? Do you think there would have been any exodus had there been no war? What about the Jewish refugees from muslim countries at the same time? Ignore them? Israel didn’t keep Jewish refugees in refugee camps like the arab brothers of the palestinians STILL do.. Again, if it’s easier to blame everything on Israel, then go ahead, it still won’t make you right.
Let’s also not forget that Jews have lived there, continiuously, for almost 1500 years longer than Islam even existed. I realize it’s convenient to ignore that.
Imran Khan Part 2:
In fact, Israel has killed thousands of Palestinians over the past 40 years. Since 2000, more than 2,600 mostly civilians have lost their lives due to Israeli aggression and millions have been forced from their land, living in refugee camps in various countries.
So, who are the victims? If attack is the basis for revenge, then who should take revenge?
While there have been many efforts to bring peace to the area, no real gains have ever been realized. The basic reason for the failure of peace talks between Israel and Palestine is that the peacemakers (mainly the United States) primarily feel the pain of those who’ve actually inflicted more pain on the other side.
There’s an unofficial ceasefire between Israel and Hamas these days and Egypt is attempting to broker a peace deal between the two, while the U.S., the European Union and Middle East nations are interested in a long-term peace deal between Israelis and Palestinians.
However, peace comes with justice. Just as Israelis have the right to live peacefully, the same is the right of poor Palestinians also. Neither Israel nor anyone else can achieve any type of peace via force. That’s our human nature. McCain and others know this well, but they also must consider the situation from a Palestinian perspective as well.
Am I celebrating, No, that would be silly cuz I’m American, and not Jewish.
I think Israel is justified in its creation.
As far as them evolving, I’d like them to evolve and grow with the rest of the middle east, although I doubt it because of their past and dogmatic religions.
(1) The secular and civilized.
(2) Religious fundamentalists and fanatics.
(3) Sociopathic exploiters using the religio/ethnic ideology.
The future of Israel depends upon whether the secular and civilized (who are thought to be in the majority) can overcome their disgust with the politicians and take over the government.
My Precious Ros : Today marks the 60th birthday of Israel… And it also marks 60 years of the horrific ordeal of the Palestinian people…. My aunt is a 71 years old Baghdadi lady… She sometimes tells me stories of how Baghdadi Jews used to go on with their lives in Baghdad before they were forcibly deported to the Holy Lands 60 years ago… Most Baghdadi Jews were either goldsmiths or merchants… Baghdadi Jewish goldsmiths were pretty famous of making some best-quality golden jewelry… Baghdadi Jewish merchants were well-know among Baghdadis by being hard-workers and having pretty briliant commercial minds…. Among the very high profile Baghdadi personalities in the twenties and thirties of the 20th century were the Baghdadi Jewish merchant Shaol Shaashua and the Baghdad Jewish merchant Manaheen Daniel… Both of them were pretty rich, pretty famous, and highly influential at that time… Mr Shaashua was pretty famous among Baghdadis because he built the largest and !
the most gorgeous palace in Baghdad at that time on the river Tigris bank…. Shaashua palace hosted temporarly the 1st Hashimi king of Iraq King Faisel the 1st when he 1st arrived to Iraq from Syria… When I was in high school one of my best girlfriends ‘Ruaa’ was originally from the Gaza strip… I do remember hearing her always saying ‘Iraq is my country, but Palestine is my home-land’. With my love. Yours forever, Lubna.
On March 20, U.S. Republican presidential candidate John McCain visited Sderot, an Israeli town frequently hit by Palestinian rockets from nearby Gaza Strip. His visit was part of a fact-finding mission to the Middle East, he said.
“The fact is that I come from a border state. If people were rocketing my state, I think the citizens from my state would advocate a very vigorous response.”
There’s absolutely no doubt that these are 100 percent true words, but one can change his words slightly. He said if people were rocketing his state, but what if those people occupied his state and forced its citizens from their homeland? Perhaps his words might have been like the following:
The fact is that others have occupied our state by brutal force, killing many innocent citizens and forcing us from our land, so it’s natural to attempt to regain our land via a very vigorous response.
If a portion of their land was returned to them, but all control remained in the hands of their occupiers, then his words might have been like this:
The fact is that a small portion of our state has been returned to us, virtually without any rights. But because citizens in our state want their full rights and their land back, our occupiers have made our lives miserable by not providing our basic necessities, instead using them as a tool for collective punishment. Surely, this sparks a very vigorous response.
Perhaps the last paragraph best describes the situation in Gaza, particularly Gaza Strip, where 1.5 million live in a territory 25 miles long and six miles wide, making it one of the world’s most densely populated areas.
Unemployment is 80 percent and thousands more have lost their jobs since last June. Approximately 79 percent of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip live in poverty. For example, 80 percent of the population is dependent on food aid, with at least 130,000 Palestinians estimated to be food insecure.
This situation isn’t new, as residents there have been suffering for more than 40 years. Israel pulled its troops and settlers out of the Gaza Strip in 2005, 38 years after capturing the territory in the 1967 Middle East or Six Day War. However, it still controls Gaza Strip’s borders, airspace and coastal waters, in addition to completely fencing it in, essentially making it the world’s largest prison.
Hamas won the 2006 elections and seized control of the territory from the Fatah faction in fighting last June. Since then, Israel has tightened its blockade of the Gaza Strip, worsening the situation there and creating a humanitarian crisis.
What McCain said regards simple human nature that if someone attempts to attack us, we will defend ourselves. Simply pressuring humans isn’t the answer to achieve anything. Everyone knows this, so why do people twist words in their favor and forget the others? McCain and others in the U.S. administration believe that it is Israel’s right to take revenge against rocket attacks on its towns. Let’s suppose their judgment is right.
On February 27, one Israeli was killed in rockets attack on Sderot. It actually was the first of its kind in nine months. Israel immediately launched a military offensive in Gaza, killing 120 Palestinians – mostly civilians – including women and children.
I’m curious why the US’s birthday isn’t “controversial”? I mean, if you think about it, should British people have some national day of mourning? Should Canadians be sad that day to, given many canadian anglophones used to live in what became the US and left after the rebels won. Why is a question like this asked only about Israel?
Actually, it would be the Native Americans who would have reason to protest. Each “Columbus Day,” they do. They have my moral support - I am one of those who believes in the cause of reparations. I fully understand and sympathise with Palestinians who would similarly protest Israel’s birthday.
I just hope that perhaps in 10 years time we might be able to celebrate The new Palestinian State and of course peace.
Israel birthday is for Israelis. Nobody talks about Liberia’s birthday, only Liberians.
Into a peace loving nation where she and all the countries around her can live together.
When the countries that are around her can accept peace and dialogue instead of the rocket and suicide bomb.
Why should the British mourn a French win? I will assume you are an American - as as that is the case you should know it was with a great amount of French help that the US became a separate nation. You should also know that their first foray into occupying another country (Canada) in 1812 led to an American defeat.
@ Steve
Well America has it’s day of controversy which seems to be growing more and more. The 4th baby! That is when the Anti-American sentiment comes out the woodwork. It’s also when everyone on the other side of the fence is getting drunk, lighting off fireworks, and waving American flags.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ISRAEL!!!!! Suprise! We have a present for you!!! It’s $3,000,000,000.00 in aid this year for you to waste on your military (well 1.8 of it) so you can further your collective punishment of Palestine!
Have a wonderful B-day!
Regards,
Brett ~ Richmond, Va.
@ Brett
YOu act as if Israel does what it does for fun. They live near people that teach their kids from birth to hate them and want to kill them. Nations they have made peace with, have hit songs called “I hate Israel
” and Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Mein Kampf are best sellers. That’s from the ones they’ve made peace with!
The Military aid is conditional on that Israel has to buy US made products. It’s a gift to the defense industry in all reality.
@Will
France was barely involved, and only after the tide had turned. Their only major involvement was their only naval victory against Britain, possibly ever, off the coast of Virginia.
YOu mean the opposite in 1812? Britain kept on kidnapping american sailors, and Britain attacked the US. The US tried invading canada in 1775, conquered Montreal, but lost at Quebec.
Viola Anderson has offered a good defense for the creation of Israel:
http://worldhaveyoursay.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/blank-page-no4/#comment-18685
Uri Avnery has been in the forefront of events there since the start:
http://www.gush-shalom.org
His columns offer an insider’s view of events there from his days as a Revisionist Zionist terrorist to this week. They show the a change from an idealist state to an exploitive one.
The state began with terrorist organizations executing planned genocide and ethnic cleansing. The terrorist leaders became the first prime ministers of Israel.
Albert Einstein, who was offered the presidency of Israel, and Ben Guerion, who became President, both referred to one of those prime ministers as a “Nazi”.
Thus, there has been an exploitive sociopathic vector present in the state since its beginning.
A second major vector is that of the fundamentalist extremists. These benefit a state-supported separate educational system turning out elite “knitted skullcap” cadres.
Although the majority are said to be secular, they are not organized and dispair of the general corruption of Israeli politics.
There is a consensus that the post 1967 Occupation marked a turning point in Israel where it lost its character.
Sharon visited Temple Mount in a effort to provoke an uprising which he would use as a pretext to destroy the Palestinians.
The government armed and funded Gush Emunim terrorists sought to blow up the Mosque in order to bring on an End Times scenario and exterminate the Palestinians.
The continuing policy is that of a boa constrictor, seeking to eliminate the Palestinians by ethnic cleansing.
At the moment, the very fundamentalist and settler-oriented SHAS party must be placated and the sociopathic right-wing Talmudists of Netanyahu must be kept from taking over the government. Since both are imbued with the religio/ethnic ideology, there is no hope of peace.
http://otherisrael.home.igc.org/ed.html
There are intelligent and humane groups trying to act decently:
http://www.btselem.org/English/
http://www.phr.org.il/phr/article.asp?articleid=24&catid=51&pcat=51
&lang=ENG
These must usually work through the courts, since the government is permeated with the religio/ethnic ideology.
The future of Israel depends on the civilized folk becoming active in politics.
________________________________________
Submitted to WHYS 5 May 2008 16:07 GMT
http://worldhaveyoursay.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/happy-birthday-israel/#comment-20558
Contains false assertions;
Corawallis surrendered at Yorktown because he was completely blockaded by a French fleet.
Britain had to use mercenaries from Hannover to fight the US rebels because it was too involved in fighting the French in Europe.
How is it that one can continually make assertions without research?
The Military aid is conditional on that Israel has to buy US made products. It’s a gift to the defense industry in all reality.
So it’s a $1.8 billion gift card; It’s still a waste.
YOu act as if Israel does what it does for fun.
The ONLY way to solve this problem is to criticize BOTH sides and their actions. Both sides are wrong and defending one side will only further the problem. Is Palestine wrong? Yes, Hamas is making an existing problem much worse. Is Israel fencing in and punishing all of Palestine for fun? No, but that does not detract from the fact that they still ARE doing it.
@ Brett
Why does Egypt fence them in too? Why do people ignore that too?
To celebrate the creation of Israel is to celebrate the de-humanization of the indigenous people. During Israel’s war of independance they expelled 700,000 Palestinians and passed laws to confiscate land from those who stayed. Israeli citizens who are of Arab descent are treated like blacks were in the 1940’s American South. Those Palestinians who live in the occupied territories are in an apartheid state.
No celebration.
Peter Gizzi, I can agree with you more. The Americans and British fought for the state of Israel to be created in the heart land of Palestine. I hope that they will now fight for the creation of a free and peaceful Palestinian State. Agan, let the Israelis worry about their birthday.
Why does Egypt fence them in too? Why do people ignore that too?
Your right; 2 wrongs do in fact make a right.
Egypt’s boarder is what, 20%? Israel is 80% (give or take a bit). So then is Israel 80% responsible for the suffering since they blockade 80% of the boarder?
I’ll accept that.
Egypt and Israel are handling this situation like Palestine is a child and they can put them in international ‘time-out’. It doesnt work that way…
I didn’t want to take away from Israels shine though, seeing as how it is the birthday brat. But yes, Egypt blocks in Palestine too, and yes, they are just as wrong.
CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU ISRAEL.
AS COMPARED TO 52 ISLAMIC REPUBLICS INCLUDING THE LAST TWO, PAKISTAN AND BANGLADESH, CREATED IN 1947,YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE ON EARTH. WHY SHOULD ANYONE BEGRUDGE YOUR BIRTH AND EXISTENCE.
MAY YOU THRIVE.
WITH REGARD TO PALESTINIAN REFUGEES, DO NOT FORGET THE FIFTEEN MILLION OF US FORCED OUT OF OUR HOMES FROM SINDH, BALUCHISTAN, WEST PUNJAB, NWFP, NORTH KASHMIR AND EAST BENGAL WITHIN WEEKS IN 1947.
WE DECIDED NOT TO GO UNDER THE DEGRADING UMBRELLA CALLED “REFUGEE”. BEING PROUD SIKHS AND HINDUS, WE ARE SCATTERED ACROSS THE GLOBE AND ARE DOING VERY WELL. THANK YOU.
I HOPE THE VAST ARAB LANDS ALSO HAVE A TINY PLACE FOR YOU, THEIR FELLOW MUSLIMS.
BEST OF LUCK, ONCE AGAIN, ISRAEL. MAKE SURE THAT YOU ALSO HAVE DEFENCE IN DEPTH.
http://worldhaveyoursay.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/happy-birthday-israel/#comment-20557
The foregoing asserts that Israel does what it does “because it is surrounded by enemies”.
The essence of the religio/ethnic ideology is that all the “others” are enemies and not to be tolerated except as “daily humiliated servants” within an undefined “Greater Israel”.
This Greater Israel may extend from the Nile to the Euphrates and some claim Iran and Saudi Arabia. Sharon simply said “Biblically defined” Greater Israel.
Of course, as the range of rockets increases, the security zone needed will extend to Pakistan, etc.
__________________________________-
Submitted to WHYS 5 May 2008 16:46 GMT
@ Xie Ming
France was barely involved with the fighting in the US during the Revolutionary war. Yorktown was in 1781, 6 years after it began. Britain and France only went to war in 1778, 3 years after it began. Who do you think was fighting on their own for years?
Let’s stick to Israel here please. Thanks.
Viola Anderson has offered a good defense for the creation of Israel:
http://worldhaveyoursay.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/blank-page-no4/#comment-18685
Uri Avnery has been in the forefront of events there since the start:
http://www.gush-shalom.org
His columns offer an insider’s view of events there from his days as a Revisionist Zionist terrorist to this week. They show the change from an idealist state to an exploitive one.
______________________________________-
Submitted to WHYS 5 May 2008 1703 Z
Viola Anderson has offered a good defense for the creation of Israel:
http://worldhaveyoursay.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/blank-page-no4/#comment-18685
Uri Avnery has been in the forefront of events there since the start:
http://www.gush-shalom.org
His columns offer an insider’s view of events there from his days as a Revisionist Zionist terrorist to this week. They show the a change from an idealist state to an exploitive one.
______________________________________-
Submitted to WHYS 5 May 2008 1703 Z
Xie _ Ming, nobody even needs to write a defense for the creation of Israel. It exists, it’s not going anywhere. Ar eyou prepared to accept it finally? Unless you have a time machine, aren’t you working yourself up into a frenzy over nothing? repeat after me Xie_Ming: Israel exists, and no matter how much I hate it, it won’t be destroyed. Time to accept reality. Perhaps the Palestinians will realize this to so they can get a country for the first time in history, and live in peace.
At the moment, the very fundamentalist and settler-oriented SHAS party must be placated and the sociopathic right-wing Talmudists of Netanyahu must be kept from taking over the government. Since both are imbued with the religio/ethnic ideology, there is no hope of peace.
http://otherisrael.home.igc.org/ed.html
There are intelligent and humane groups trying to act decently:
http://www.btselem.org/English/
http://www.phr.org.il/phr/article.asp?articleid=24&catid=51&pcat=51
&lang=ENG
These must usually work through the courts, since the government is permeated with the religio/ethnic ideology.
__________________________
Submitted to WHYS 5 May 2008 17:17 Z
Wow, 60 years old ! I would worry sooooooo much if I reached that far ! :-). As the human being grows older, he should grow wiser, he should have developed a precious respect-worthy life-time experience, his moral conscience should’ve evolved and and become mature, he now after all those years should be able to see how the things should go not only through his eyes but also through the ‘other’s eyes… Does all that apply to 60 years old Israel ?! I do hope so, but unfortunately good wishes are one thing and reality is another thing… You should be able to recognise and strongly condemn the defect no matter where the defect is, even within your own self right ?! With my love. Yours forever, Lubna.
Happy Birthday Israel- I hope your path is easier in the coming years and I wish for you peace
Steve,
Two wrongs do not a right make. Just because Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the rest of those rich Arab nations ignore Palestine into a wasteland does not make it right for Israel to press it into an increasingly smaller space by slicing off land and placing it behind a Wall, or invading it daily and firing missiles at militants and civilians alike without giving anyone at all the benefit of a trial, etc. Most world governments criticise Hamas and oher Palestinian movements. Therefore, I see no reason for the average Joe to include them in their criticisms of Israel. When Israel, as the occupying force with the military power to back its occupation (and existence, frankly) can conduct itself civilly and humanely, the world will have a chance to turn its eye to Palestinian wrongs.
http://worldhaveyoursay.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/happy-birthday-israel/#comment-20603
The foregoing post gently calls for maturity and self-examination on the part of Israel.
A Tel Aviv clinical psychiatrist, Grossbart, has written a book titled “Israel on the Couch”. From his patients, he sees a nation fixated at an adolescent stage.
There is an organization that strives mightily to help Israel toward a mature, decent and ethical conduct toward those whom it oppresses:
http://www.btselem.org/English/
They must usually work through the courts, since the government is permeated with the religio/ethnic ideology.
The future of Israel depends on the civilized folk becoming active in politics.
_______________________________________________
Submitted to WHYS 5 May 2008 at 1816 GMT
Brett:
On the Gaza side of the Israel-Gaza border is a state (de facto if not de jure) actively at war with Israel. For what purpose should Israel allow border crossing?—and yet she does allow (with security restrictions) Gazans to receive hospital care in Israel.
As for Israel being an “apartheid state”, answer me why Arabs are allowed citizenship in Israel but Judea, Samaria, and Gaza must become judenrein in any negotiated peace settlement?
Ross:
I never thought someone would have to bring a discussion of the Israeli-Arab conflict back on-topic, when the topic is inescapable in every other thread!
Xie Ming:
Your reference to Jews treating “‘others’ … as ‘daily humiliated servants’” is taken directly from the most vicious fabrications from antisemitic propaganda. I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but a quick search turns up your repeated use of this canard. In fact, I’ve not been able to find other references to this supposed quote from the Talmud except by you.
I can not and will not, nor should anybody, take seriously your position as an honest questioner of Israel’s actions. Whatever her faults, you have no credibility when they are under discussion.
If this be ad hominem, make the most of it.
Happy birthday to Isriel & better future along with dignity & respect. Being victom of Ghandhi’s hipocracy & political failour I paid the most price of migration from Sonipat India to Pakistan beside loosing Estate & status I lost my birth mother too as I born in a refugee camp in Lahore Pakistan.
Isralies I understand price of Hollocust & refuge, which is really tough & may not be understand by the non sufferors. On the other hand I really appreciate the Phalistianian nation not to join the Nazi Hitler war as during refuge Phalistianian embraces Jewish sufferors.
Finally I pray for peace & sucess for the region.
How would you like Israel to evolve?
I think this is a very important question. Israel celebrates its 60th anniversary as the homeland for the Jewish people. But, with fast growing minority Arab populations (that will soon increase to become a MAJORITY IN Israel) and the obvious violence that exists, Israel will have to evolve into a state with a new national identity with assimilated minorities.
During Israel’s war of independance they expelled 700,000 Palestinians and passed laws to confiscate land from those who stayed.
——————————–
—- Israel was attacked by Arabs on the day of it’s creation. Outnumbered in population by 50 to 1. Some Palestinians were expelled, others fled the fighting that their arab neighbors started. The timeline of events completely escapes the grasp of those who should know better but only wish to present one side.
Nobody attacked Jordan when it was created the year before. Just as many Pals in Jordon as in Palestine. So why attack Israel when Jews have lived there from time immemorial?
Israel is not a perfect democracy, more like a democratic military state, but Palestinians are citizens there with rights. All Jews have had to flee Palestinian controlled lands. Israeli Palestinians and Jews conduct business and socialize with each other in Israel. If a Jew is caught in Palestinian lands, he is killed brutally. If a Palestinian is merely rumored to be working with Israeli military in Pal controlled lands, he’s publically dragged from his family and very brutally killed by militant vigilantes.
Pal apologists never acknowledge the 1 million Jewish refugees from the middle east and North Africa who have fled for their lives to the safety of Israel since 1948. Christians and other minority religions have fled to other parts of the globe. No reparations or guarantee of repatriation for those folks.
Until the Pals can escape the grasp of the death cult they have created, they are doomed to a terrible existance. They had it pretty nice compared to most middle eastern Arabs before they restarted the infitada with waves of suicide bombers in 2000. They collapsed the fragile Israeli peace coalition, thereby ushering in their own hell in the form of Sharon.
Egypt and Jordan not attacking Israel as they have peaceful diplomatic relations, so Israel’s not in military conflict with them. Most in Israel want a Palestinian state. It means peace. Most in Palestine want Israel destroyed if actions are to be believed. If Palestinians wish to be treated humanely, they should start with themselves and their neighbors. Children and peace loving Pals and Israelis deserve better.
Ball’s been in the Palestinian court for 60 yrs, and for 60 years they keep dropping it and their apologists keep on apologizing and blaming Israel. Ridiculous, but truth much stranger than fiction.
Well, Happy Birthday Israel. Maybe one day you can celebrate with Palestinians.
Mr,Johny,
Before writing minority to Phalistanians please study histry, infact you are victom of Contiminated media too, as Phalistanian muslims already paid enough price for there hospotility & sympathy with jewish nation.
Since its creation, Israel has been the focus of the international media and policy. It’s one of the rare states that are rarely not in the news whose existence and policies raise debates by friends and foes. For some it’s a role model of democracy in the Middle East as the countries surrounding it are ruled through one party system as it is the case of Syria or through a dominant party despite the existence of others as it is the case in Egypt.
In the past sixty years, it outlived the storms surrounding it. It had no friendly neighbouring state. Its existence depends on the generous aids of the USA and the strong Jewish lobby around the world that secures it from the sanctions of the Security Council in regards to its policies towards the Palestinians. Still it isn’t a secure state as there are countries after it like Iran as there are armed groups like Hezbollah waiting for any moment to inflict on it the heaviest blows in the hope of seeing it dead rather than continuing to celebrate its birthdays year after year.
The Middle East needs the birth of a really peaceful policy for everyone to live in peace. While Israel is counting the years since it was born, others are counting the deaths it has inflicted on the Palestinians, making the two sides look like Tom and Jerry. They can’t feel at ease without playing cat and mouse, just for the fun of it or by being serious about it.
One thing is sure. Israel is now a fact. It’s a fait accompli whether its enemies like it or not. But still it has to show more resilience towards the Palestinians as it is now in a strong position. Capitalizing on their weaknesses to go ahead with its intransigent policies will just perpetuate the current conflict.
So let’s hope that in its next birthday, Israel will have grown into a state with internationally recognised borders and the Palestinians have their free state instead of continuing to feel as Israel’s collective prisoners.
“Do you think Israel has justified its creation?”
What kind of question is that? Do I think Britain has justified its creation? NO! Do I think the BBC has justified its creation? NO! The answer to the question is that the question itself is anti-semitic and intended to arouse hatred. Where is the self censorship of BBC? It’s OK to censor those who respond with this kind of talk but this thread should be removed.
Israel’s existance doesn’t have to be justified to anyone by anyone. We know that Europe KNEW that the holocaust was going on. They persecuted the Jews for over a thousand years. Europe’s attitude to a harmless pacifist people who lived among them ranged from tolerating them with hatred to beating them, robbing them, killing them, eventually trying to kill every last one of them. In the process, Europeans were turned into savages, hardly better than rabid animals. A lot of Europeans would like to see the Moslems finish off what Hitler started. This is why Israel doesn’t trust Europe and why any peace negotiations must involve the US, Israel’s only real friend.
The US recognized the State of Israel 11 minutes after it declared its independence. Of all the issues between the US and Europe, global warming, trade, the war on terror, Israel is by far the most contentious. The United States will stand by Israel no matter what, much to Europe’s chagrin.
Those who wish Israel ill should keep in mind that in all probability, Israel has the third largest arsenal of nuclear weapons in the world, possibly more now than Britain and France combined. Only the US and Russia have more. Some of those weapons may be fusion weapons too. Israel has the power to use those weapons to bring an end to all human life on earth in any one of several ways. Not necessarily at once but in not to long a time just as surely as the US or Russia could. Should Israel face the likelihood of extinction one day, there is no reason to believe that it would not take the rest of us with it. The looming prospect of a nuclear armed Iran determined to destroy Israel is something that should strike fear in every sane person on earth. Whether it is Hillary Clinton, Dr. Rice, or President Bush, they speak about Israel with one voice. America’s threat to Iran is very real also.
I would love to see Israel and Palestine living peacefully one day…
israel is mored evolve than its terrorist neighbors…..god bless Israel..and I hope the palestinians learn how to act someday
marianne
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/
Happy Birthday Israel!!!!
Happy Birthday Israel. 60 years of taking Palestinian land. 60 years of mass killings and murders. 60 years of destroying houses and lives. 60 years of existing through different wars. Thats an accomplishment.. Your deserve to celebrate.
Mark
The answer to the question is that the question itself is anti-semitic and intended to arouse hatred. Where is the self censorship of BBC?
Why is this argument always posed when anti-Israeli comments are made?
Being Anti-America does not make you Anti-Christian; Being Anti-Iran does not make you Anti-Muslim; Just as being Anti-Israel (or questioning their actions) does not make you or the question posed Anti-Semitic.
Israel is a war criminal state. No rational human being should celebrate 60 years of atrocities. If Israel returns to the 1967 borders, then we can celebrate that state.
Meanwhile, question for the BBC: One in five Israelis are Arab. Will you, in your week of interviewing an Israeli each day, devote one in five days to an Arab.
Prediction: Of course not. Just as a murderous Israeli population dehumanizes the Palestinian people, so too does the BBC and western media generally.
“The answer to the question is that the question itself is anti-semitic and intended to arouse hatred. Where is the self censorship of BBC?
Why is this argument always posed when anti-Israeli comments are made?
Being Anti-America does not make you Anti-Christian; Being Anti-Iran does not make you Anti-Muslim; Just as being Anti-Israel (or questioning their actions) does not make you or the question posed Anti-Semitic.”
No other country ever has similar questions posted about it. Wheres the: “Do you think the palestinians have justified the ceding of land by Israel?” Since they: elected terrorists to power, continue to attack Israel, and hold mass celebrations over civilian deaths I would have to say hell no. The bias against Israel is incredible and the Palestinians deserve nothing but my eternal contempt. I can only hope one day they finally push Israel too far and the Pallys are finally taught a hard lesson.
@ Ian:
“Israel is a war criminal state. No rational human being should celebrate 60 years of atrocities. If Israel returns to the 1967 borders, then we can celebrate that state.”
You realize that 1967 was 41 years ago, so how have there been 60 years of atrocities? Oh yeah, I forget, It’s Israel’s fault 6 arab nations tried to destroy it in 1948, then lost, then decided to occupy Gaza and the West Bank until 1967, when they lost it. All that mean while they never gave the Palestinians independence, but let’s blame everything on Israel.
I guess, to make you happy Ian, I will drink shots of Sabra and eat Jaffa oranages on Thursday.
“Just as a murderous Israeli population dehumanizes the Palestinian people, so too does the BBC and western media generally.”
Yes, all Israelis are murderers and victimize Palestinians. ZzzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz. Am Yisrael Chai.
No happy birthday Israel for me!
Israel is a corrupt and illegitimate entity occupying Palestine.
Its existence has cost thousands of lives and millions of my tax dollars to maintain its unlawful occupation.
Israel’s formation is based on taking land from one group of people and giving it to another. The false premises are that the UN had the right to do that, it did not. The UN is not a world government with the power of eminent domain. Nor did the Palestinian people consent to the partition of their country.
@ Stan
Why is Israel the only country on earth that for some reason has to prove it’s legitimacy? Why is Bangledesh legitimate, but not Israel? Why is India, but not Israel? Why is Canada? Why is France?
If your basis for this conclusion is based upon taking land from others, assume away that Jews are from there in the first place, why is the USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand legitimate? Do you think the vast majority of those countries are the natives? I think it’s time to end the double standards people have when they single out israel for deligitimization and criticism.
There is no logical reason why you should think Canada has a right to exist if you think Israel has no right to exist. Care to explain it in a manner that just doesn’t say “but but, they are Jews, hence I need a different standard!”
I was interested to see whether this debate could be carried out fully and, if necessary, fiercely, without that boring old slur ‘anti-semitic’ appearing at any point. It’s become a cheap shot at intimidation and should be thrown out of the vocabulary of the modern world. But: too much to hope for!
I’d say that Israel has a lot to answer for in the area of human rights violations but has, unfortunately, for all sorts of primitive reasons, been rendered untouchable.
Before celebrating any birthdays, I hope the State of Israel will first attend to the birth of a just and free Palestinian state.
At a deeper level, I hope the State of Israel will finally come to learn that a cycle of violence can never be ended by recourse to violence.
No reason to celebrate until then.
1. The Jews were not there in the first place. Where was Abraham born?
2. Israel cannot be rationalized because of how other countries were formed. Clearly Palestine was recognizable geo-political area. Its their lands, and you and no one else has the right to take it away from them including the UN.
3. Where do you live Steve? I live in Cleveland, Ohio, USA. Do you live in Palestine under Israel occupation?
Tino
I can only hope one day they finally push Israel too far and the Pallys are finally taught a hard lesson.
Harder than the ‘lesson’ they are already being taught?
@ Stan
Jews have lived in what is Now Israel since your ancestors lived in caves and wore skins. There have been jews continously living there for thousands of years now. There has never been a time within the past several thousand years that no Jews have lived there.
I don’t understand your second point. India/Pakistan were created by paritioning a landmass. East Timor was created by the UN, and I know Indonesia wasn’t happy about that. Why do you single out Israel? There is absolutely no difference between the US/canada/Aus/NZ and Israel other than the fact that Jews at least originated there. A Swedish-American is any less a “settler” on someone else’s land in Minnesota???
I live in Virginia, and unless you are a native American in Ohio, you have no business criticizing Israel for something you aren’t willing to do yourself. Why don’t you give your property back to the native americans it was stolen from? Did you have any objection to arab occupation of the west bank and gaza from 1947-1967 by Egypt and Jordan???
Occupation = good if not done by jews???
@ Brett
Read about Black September in 1970. The arabs have been far more brutal to the Palestinians than Israel ever has. Also, the arabs keep Palestinians in refugee camps whereas Israel didn’t keep Jews expelled from muslim countries in refugee camps. The arabs really need to stop using the Palestinians as pawns in their war against Israel.
Another thing, is when you hear about Sabra and Shitilla, people immediate shout “war crime! ariel sharon!” despite him not having done it. It was committed by the arab brothers of the Palestinians, because they absolutley hated each other. Palestinians would slaughter christians, muslims would slaughter christians, and christians would slaughter muslims/palestinians. They absolutely LOATHED each other because they were fighting a civil war that the Palestinians decided to get into the middle of due to the vacuum in lebanon. So while Ariel Sharon is a “war criminal” for not doing it, the person who actually committed the atrocitied, Hokeiba not only was considered a hero, but was elected to the Lebanese parliament! But again, if it’s easier to blame israel for everything, and ignore everything else, go ahead.
Happy birthday, Israel. If fighting is equated with work, boy, have you earned your country!
Mark is right on the mark, lol. If the world decides Israel has no right to exist, then Israel has the equal right to decide the world has no right to exist.
@Steve
By noon of September 15th, the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) had completely surrounded the Sabra-Shatila camps, and controlled all entrances and exits by the means of checkpoints. The IDF also occupied a number of multi-story buildings as observation posts. Amongst those was the seven-story Kuwaiti embassy which, according to TIME, had “an unobstructed and panoramic view” of the camps. Hours later, IDF tanks began shelling the camps.[12]
Ariel Sharon and Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan[14] met with the Lebanese Phalangist militia units, inviting them to enter the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps to clean out “terrorist nests”. Under the Israeli plan, Israeli soldiers would control the perimeters of the refugee camps and provide logistical support while the Phalangists would enter the camps, find the PLO fighters and hand them over to Israeli forces.[citation needed] The meetings concluded at 3:00 p.m. September 16.[12]
An hour later, 1,500 Christian militiamen assembled at Beirut International Airport, then occupied by Israel. Under the command of Elie Hobeika, they began moving towards the camps in IDF supplied jeeps, following Israeli guidance on how to enter the camps. The forces were mostly Phalangist, though there were some men from Saad Haddad’s “Free Lebanon forces”.[12]
The first unit of 150 Phalangists, armed with guns, knives and hatchets entered the camps at 6:00 p.m. Immediately the unit began slitting throats, axing, shooting, and raping, often taking groups outside and lining them up for execution.[12] During the night the Israeli forces fired illuminating flares over the camps. According to a Dutch nurse, the camp was as bright as “a sports stadium during a football game”.[15]
At 11:00 p.m. a report was sent to the IDF headquarters in East Beirut, reporting the killings of 300 people, including civilians. The report was forwarded to headquarters in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, where it was seen by more than 20 senior Israeli officers.
The Kahan commission found that Ariel Sharon “bears personal responsibility” and recommended his dismissal from the post of Defense Minister, stating that:
It is our view that responsibility is to be imputed to the minister of defense for having disregarded the prospect of acts of vengeance and bloodshed by the Phalangists against the population of the refugee camps and for having failed to take this danger into account when he decided to have the Phalangists enter the camps. In addition, responsibility is to be imputed to the minister of defense for not ordering appropriate measures for preventing or reducing the chances of a massacre as a condition for the Phalangists’ entry into the camps…
Even though the Kahan Commission concluded that Sharon should not hold public office again, he would later become Prime Minister of Israel
Now thats what I call a democracy!
Steve
May 6, 2008 at 5:54 pm
But again, if it’s easier to blame israel for everything, and ignore everything else, go ahead.
10 Brett
May 5, 2008 at 4:20 pm
The ONLY way to solve this problem is to criticize BOTH sides and their actions. Both sides are wrong and defending one side will only further the problem. Is Palestine wrong? Yes, Hamas is making an existing problem much worse. Is Israel fencing in and punishing all of Palestine for fun? No, but that does not detract from the fact that they still ARE doing it.
I’m a bit confused on this one… I’m not blaming israel for everything, nor have I ever. I’m not ignoring everything else, but pointing out that Israel is wrong. Same goes for Palestine. Both are in the wrong. Is that an unnaceptable statement? Or would you just like me to focus equal criticism on Palestine as well? I certainly could do that. Can one person here say that, without argument, either side is 100% justified and correct? Doubtful.
Regards,
Brett ~ Richmond, Va.
Of course not, both sides have fault, but I’ve found in my history of discussing this issue, that the pro-palestinian people and many arabs in general blame 100% of the problem on Israel, and in fact blame every problem they have on Israel. How could peace be possible when people are taught to hate Israelis and Jews from the day they are born?
It’s like the “peace” between Israel and Egypt. It’s a peace between the governments, not the people. Egyptians are buying books like the Protocols, songs like “i hate Israel” are best sellers, and given the popularity of the Muslim Brotherhood there, it looks like if they ever took over, they would immiediately ignore the peace treaty.
Peace needs to be on a personal level as well as a government level. Palestinian youths are taught to hate Jews, by the government.
@ Edmund:
So let me understand, because Sharon let it happen, he didn’t anticipate it, or at worst allowed the Phalangists to do it, he’s worse than the people that actually did it? So he’s a war criminal, but the guy who did it isn’t? I’m trying to understand the logic behind that other than He’s Israeli, and Hokeiba isn’t. hokeiba was later elected to the lebanese parliament, yet he ordered the massacre.
And why are the other slaughters never mentioned? Because Israel wasn’t involved? It’s not like this was the only one. it’s the only one that gets any attention.
Just skimming the surface: the State of Israel has nothing to celebrate other than 60 years of existence. The rest is a tale of ongoing violence, in which the Israeli state must accept a big part of the blame, including the shame of massive human rights violations.
How come Israel can’t accept what South Africa accepted: one united state with different ethnic groups in its make up?
And, isn’t it time to reject comments that contain the term ‘anti-semitic’? This outdated carrot and stick taboo really must go out the window now. It’s overplayed to the extent that it’s become quite meaningless.
I hope the State of Israel will soon grow up and realize that you cannot put an end to a cycle of violence by perpetrating violence, even so-called retaliatory violence.
@ Donovan
Because Israelis don’t want to commit national suicide, that’s why. Because you want Israel to cease to exist doesn’t make Israelis have to agree with you by committing national suicide. I’m sure they would just love to live in a Sharia state ruled by hamas.
1- Theh settlements are wrong. if the settlers intend to stay maybe they should understand that they need to do this on their own and not demand protection from Israel. i was born in 1945 in what was then the British Protectorate of Palestine. In 1948 it became the State of Israel. I feel that israelis have forgotten that they are Jews, nd why the state was created int he first place, What a shame. My familyl iived through the wars of 1945,1948 and 1956. I am proud of what the nation has accomplished but very disappointed in what it has become.
Steve,
You didnt answer my question. Abraham was born in Mesopotamia. The Hebrew tribes left that area about 1400BC in search of that fabled “promised land”. Oddly enough there are other people living there, in Abrahams case the Canannites. The Jews did not originate in what is now Israel or ancient Israel for that matter.
The Hebrews ended up living in Egypt for a very long time. After leaving there they lived in the desert for 40 years. Still looking for a more permanent place to live Joshua and his horde of Hebrew hobos fell upon Jericho and massacred the people living there as testified in their own folklore book (Joshua 6:21)killing every man and woman, young and old. Not only did they kill the inhabitants they killed the livestock as well. I hereby nominate Joshua as the grandfather of terrorism. Talk about a double standard: while in the desert they supposedly received the law of Moses which said “THOU SHALL NOT COVET, THOU SHALL NOT KILL, THOU SHALL NOT STEAL”.
Why Jericho? Its an oasis.
Biblical Israel ceased to exist 600BC. Its not a matter of who lived where. Jews have lived all over the world. Its a matter of geo-political entities.
Over that area then came Persians, Romans and then Arabs. I mark the Arab existence by the creation of the Dome of the Rock, built 690AD, 1300 years of continuous existence.
You constantly throwing out how other countries came into existence is a red herring. It doesnt matter, whether its Canada, Kenya or Latvia, each case has to be considered on its own merits. I dont know of any clamor in India to return Pakistan or in Pakistan to be annexed back to India.
The facts are quite clear, the Palestinians did not agree to have there lands taken and the UN is not a world government that can confiscate lands.
As for as my “double standard” what about yours? Why are you not willing to give back your Virginia lands to native Americans while you demand the Palestinians give theirs to the Hebrews?
And I dont know anything about the Arab occupation of Gaza 47-67, but that seems to be a past event another dodge on your part. The occupation of Palestine is still on going. Occupation by whomever is wrong.
I was in Tel-Aviv on the second anniversary. Israel more than justified its creation not only for the need to have their own state but for the fact the Jews were scattered all over the world also they were subjugated in more ways than one. In my schooling days I was told by non jews quote ‘ you dont have a country of your own’ and other insulting words. One should remember the Spanish inquisition when jews were put to death unless they changed their religin and become catholics. They were also put into slavery by the ancient Eygtians for 400 years. Further, the six million jews that died under the guttersnipe Hitler regime, had their properties confiscated, the oversized and fat Goering acquired most of the properties for himself. Many jews known as the Jewish Brigade fought with the British army against Germany. The Romans when they were powerful conquered Jerusalem and the surrounding areas which was the home of religious and non religious jews and stole all the wealth that belonged to the jews, took it back to Rome together with several jews as slaves to work, and from the proceeds built the Collissium and other buildings with the jews having to do most if not all the work. One can see a replica of the religious Menorah they stole from the great Synagogue in Jerusalem in one of the Arches in Rome.The Romans pilferd a bundle of wealth and rejoyced of having done so.
The question is asked ” Do you think Israel has justified it creation” It goes without saying, the answer:-” Very much more than justified”.
Today we hear countries around Israel, Iran and the terrorist leadership of Hamas, their leaders openly stateing that they want to destroy Israel. For them it makes political capital in so doing for their own selfish ends.Iran does not fool me they are bent in making nuclear weapons, whilst they pretend its for peaceful purposes, who are they kidding?. They see that Israel has bloomed and created from the desert a beutiful country and they are jealous of the fact. The same jealousy under the Germans, Spanish, and the distant past Egyptian regimes not to mention others too that felt that way. Iran, Hamas and any other should wake up to the fact Israel is here to stay.
In the 1950s surrounding Israel, Eygypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq & libya went to war openly declairing to drive the jews into the sea, instead they lost bitterly and lost some of their own land in the process, Israel gave back to Egypt the land they lost and to Syria most of what they lost except the Golan hieghts which was used by Syria to fire upon settlements into Israel. Had Israel lost the war would they have got back the land of Israel, definitely not. Will China give back Tibet to the Tibetans? Will Russia give back the Islands they took from Japan, or give back to Finland the land they took in world war 2, not likely, and they preside in the United Nations.
I end with “HAPPY BIRTHDAY ISRAEL”.
Both Israel and her supporters may be silly and foolish. The HOLY GOD of Abraham, Issic and Jacob first led you out of slavery from Egype to that land but now you think westerners and washington is gods that put you in that land.You should read the Bible from book of Moses to book of 4 Ezra and if you says it is liars then we will see what will HOLY ONE says for us in future.
“Harder than the ‘lesson’ they are already being taught?”
Yes, obviously much harder. I do not think providing food, fuel, and medical care constitutes a hard lesson. Firing a missile directly at Palestinian’s for EACH rocket they fire might, however, constitute a hard lesson.
Ever seen the movie swordfish? That is how you deal with terrorists (which by my definition the vast majority of Palestinians clearly are since they elected terrorists by overwhelming majority). If they kill an Israeli citizen - destroy a village.
All over the world Muslim terrorists use brutal tactics and double speak to advance their directives. I think it is only right to fight fire with fire. I for one am sick and tired of seeing them celebrate every civilian death from ‘93 WTC to the Mercaz Harav yeshiva attacks. They deserve to be taught that such things do NOT go unpunished. Take off the kid gloves, thats all I am saying.
In reply to Steve:
No, I don’t remember saying that I don’t want Israel to exist. What I’m saying is, why can’t some sort of socio-political deal be found, in terms of which Israelis and Palestinians can share one territory?
I’m quite sure that a deal could be struck,of which the outcome does not have to be a Sharia state ruled by Hamas; that is, a negotiated settlement of all the power-sharing mechanisms, with certain non-starters etc.
What other way forward? I mean, is it an either/or situation in which only one winner takes all? In that case the violence will never cease.
And please, please, please, to criticize and probe the Israeli situation is not the same as wanting Israel not to exist. That is hysterical nonsense.
What’s your plan? that Israel should keep at it until one of the two sides in the conflict ceases to exist? That is genocidal thinking.
I hope that, instead of celebrating 60 years of conflict and violence-ridden existence, the State of Israel (which has a right to exist) will, instead, pause to deeply consider a new way forward. In doing this, it would do well to look back at the process begun by the hero Yitzhak Rabin, and finally shake off the Sharon-Netanyahu mentality. Then Israel (which has a right to exist) can exist in a worthwhile way, and have not only a right to exist but also some joy in existing - and give the same right to a happy existence to the Palestinians as well (who also have a right to exist).
I agreed with steve on ….comments totally….
@ Donovan
“one state solution” is the PC term for not wanting Israel to exist. It would be a muslim majority nation, muslims would impose sharia. Jews would live as 3rd class citizens. Why would Israelis want that? Would you want that? I’m thinking not, so don’t ask Israelis to do what you wouldn’t want either.
There will be no “one state”. Accept it, and then think about the future realizing that.
@ Tito
I believe that’s way extreme, however Israel is being very lenient with the palestinians. If any other country had rockets being fired at them, they would have been turned into a parking lot. I cannot imagine how the Us would respond to Mexico if Tijuanas would launch rockets at san Diego. Mexico would be a giant graveyard.
Israel is under intense media scrutiny, they don’t hide wha tthey do, so they are under a microscope.
“What I’m saying is, why can’t some sort of socio-political deal be found, in terms of which Israelis and Palestinians can share one territory?”
How would you possibly expect peace to exist when one group (Pallys) have elected a group who calls for the termination of Israel? That is why s deal cannot be found. Throughout all of this, the only thing Israel has asked for is an end to suicide bombings and rockets. It has NEVER happened, even when they gave up their own frigging territory. It is beyond stupid to believe that a deal can be reached in that environment.
@ Steve
It is extreme, but we are talking about fighting extreme people. The about of slack we cut Muslims around the world is quite frankly appalling, and they run a mile for every inch given. No other religion has such a track record of sponsoring horribly violent attacks. It is sanctioned in their holy book, which is blatantly discriminatory (read it your self if you do not believe). There is no hope in the middle east.
1. How did the Arabs learn terrorism? Could someone tell me who bombed the King David Hotel in 1946? Hamas or Hezbollah?
2. The fact that Jews suffered at the Spanish inquisition, under the Romans (as all those in the Roman Empire did as do all the supplicants of any empire) and by the most heinous and vile event in history, mass murder by the Nazis; what is the justification of seizing Palestinian lands?
What say-so did the Palestinians have about Partition?
What did the Palestinians receive in compensation?
3. Does it not bother any of you that Israel has wiped Palestine off the map? Prior to 1948 there was a Palestine, look at a map today and its missing.
4.And Israel continues to acquire more territory. Why do the put settlements on the West Bank? What is the West Bank the west bank of?
5. Did the Jews build Jerusalem?
stan
the palestinians never owned the land….the british did…..the palestinians are refugees from arab lands……the land belongs to Israel…all of it.
the west bank used to be Israel…until the palestinians got it….
the palestinians did NOT build jerusalem , if that is what you are thinking.
@ Stan
3. Does it not bother any of you that Israel has wiped Palestine off the map? Prior to 1948 there was a Palestine, look at a map today and its missing.
Um, actually the actions of the Arabs in 1948 were the reason there’s no Palestine today. Had the arabs not attacked in 1948, there would be a 60 year old Palestine today. The arabs attacked, trying to kill the Jews, and they failed at that, but did take Gaza and the West Bank, and DID NOT GIVE THE PALESTINIANS INDEPENDENCE. Yet you blame Israel. Interesting.
Hi, Ros
Put Out the Bread, Turn Off the Stove
TEHRAN - Is that all there is to it?
Friday Prayers, now this and Church bells ring on Sundays.
Before Muslims were Muslims, Moses spelt it out in his 613 precepts. Again, whether you are a Muslim, Christian or Jew, try and remember the Ten Commandments.
The essence and dividing line between ascetic values and immorality is very thin, even subtle: But there it is, otherwise, conscience creeps in. Keep it simple.
Jews in the late fourties and early fifties in London worked as tailors, shoe makers, and hairdressers. Nothing wrong in that, but try reminding them of who they are today. A bit of humble pie wouldn’t hurt.
There was none of the animosity between races and religions we see today, because everyone tried to blend into society. Environment may be the hidden factor in evolution, and a happy ending to the saga.
Is that all there is to Zion?
Surely, the legacy of Ephrahim has a long way to go. There are so many questions that have been left answered. The Balfour Manifesto was a beginning, but Israel, Judaism and Zionists are no nearer to solving the ultimate issue. Philosophy must be reconciled to religion, which is impossible without prophecy.
Also, the location of Israel as the land of Zion is undecided.
God decided where Israel would be lovated thousands of years ago.
negative Palestinian behavior is not the responsibility of the Israelis , who act out of religious hatred….but that is not Israel’s fault….the people need to learn to control themselves.
Hi Marianne
The Bible says: “I the Lord thy father shall point the way to Zion,” or something like that. Don’t forget, the lights must shine, Shekina in Hebrew.
What I am getting at is that Hebrew is a language tool, belonging to everyone.
The same with Arabic, the tongue of your good brothers, remember; but obviously some of that has been lost in the course of history.
Rgds,
Don’t take it to heart.
I am not against any people group. I am against evil behavior. The Israeils have been “shining” much better than the Palestinians. But with HAMAS there, it seems hopeless to help them change.,
marianne
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/
What a pointless series of exchanges this has been ? .
I am reading this on 8 May 2008 for those who are too young and infantile to recognise that date it was V E Day in 1945 .
We thought then we would have peace and contenment all over the world
It is also by the Hebrew Calendar the date the out numbered Jews in the Land of Israel decided to rule themselves - the British having said they were going .
No one expected the Jews to survive - I remember our school porter an ex B ritian Army sergeant saying ” the Arabs will wipe the Jews out in two weeks -after all we trained the Egyptians , Iraqis and Trans Jordanians un der sir John Glubb !
If Israel had not been established who would the Arabs and my erstwhile comrades on the Left have blamed for all their self inflicted wounds .?
In 1945 we hoped for a better world .
In 1948 too having seen the Muslims of India insisting on separating themselves from India in order to have their own state I wondered why should the Jews not have theirs ?
Now I would rather live in Israel than Pakistan any time .
So HAPPY BIRTHDAY Israel you have worked wonders as anyone who goes there can see - and may you have peace one day when your “cousins ” decide to settle down .
What ever we say about Israel, we remember that Israel is located in a very hostile neighbourhood. It some times naturally reacts to protect itself. Let’s not forget that Palestinians are doing themselves a favour either!
It is hard to believe that this conflict isn’t even as old as my parents. It is kind of like celebrating an infection. “Yah, it is big and painful and full of puss. I can’t believe it hasn’t popped.” Because of Israel, a lot of people find reasons to threaten and fight with each other. Our politicians are willing to kill millions of men, women, and children who have no concern with politics if the leaders of one country attack Israel.
I have to agree that I wonder what the colonization, battle for independence, and civil war of the United States would have looked like if it had occurred in the year 2000. Would the rest of the have put up with putting a price on an “Indian’s” head, murdering full villages, and slavery?
I guess in respect to Israel, Timing is everything.
So god creates people just so that the Israelis can kill, starve them, finacialy enslave them, and take land they had held for thousands of years from them for revolting? Man that “God” dude is pretty sick in the head. He seems to be a Saddist. His son was much cooler.
Hi WHYS,
What ever we say about Israel, we should remember that Israel is located in a very hostile neighbourhood. It some times naturally reacts to protect itself. Let’s not forget that Palestinians are doing themselves a favour either!
In joining in the celebration of Israel, may we note that, in 2002, the former Chief Rabbi of Israel, citing his Scripture, told the settlers to steal the olives of the Palestinians, because all trees in Greater Israel “belonged to the Jews”.
And, with the help of the Israeli Army, it was done!
_____________________
Submitted to WHYS 8 May 2008 15:00 GMt
The tragedy of the people of Palestine is that their country was “given” by a foreign power to another people for the creation of a new state. The result was that many hundreds of thousands of innocent people were made permanently homeless. With every new conflict their numbers increased. How much longer is the world willing to endure this spectacle of wanton cruelty? It is abundantly clear that the refugees have every right to the homeland from which they were driven, and the denial of this right is at the heart of the continuing conflict. No people anywhere in the world would accept being expelled en masse from their own country; how can anyone require the people of Palestine to accept a punishment which nobody else would tolerate? A permanent just settlement of the refugees in their homeland is an essential ingredient of any genuine settlement in the Middle East. We are frequently told that we must sympathise with Israel because of the suffering of the Jews in Europe at the hands of the Nazis. […] What Israel is doing today cannot be condoned, and to invoke the horrors of the past to justify those of the present is gross hypocrisy.
Congratulation Israel.
We respect Israel in all the development that it has done in middle east, which include amongst others, the development of a state that is govern by the rule of law and democratic state. Having stated the above it is also time that Israel respects its neighbours and their right of existance. It time Israel extends hand for peace to their Arab brothers, this is because Israel enjoys good relationship with the western countries. It is Israel to take the first step in peace making in the middle east!!
Congratulation Again Israel
@ Jamie?
Why are you blaming Israel for the actions of the arab invading armies? If they didn’t attack, there would be a 60 year old palestine today. Why didn’t they give them independence either? Egypt and Jordan occupied Gaza and the West Bank? Do you think there would have been any exodus had there been no war? What about the Jewish refugees from muslim countries at the same time? Ignore them? Israel didn’t keep Jewish refugees in refugee camps like the arab brothers of the palestinians STILL do.. Again, if it’s easier to blame everything on Israel, then go ahead, it still won’t make you right.
Let’s also not forget that Jews have lived there, continiuously, for almost 1500 years longer than Islam even existed. I realize it’s convenient to ignore that.
Imran Khan Part 2:
In fact, Israel has killed thousands of Palestinians over the past 40 years. Since 2000, more than 2,600 mostly civilians have lost their lives due to Israeli aggression and millions have been forced from their land, living in refugee camps in various countries.
So, who are the victims? If attack is the basis for revenge, then who should take revenge?
While there have been many efforts to bring peace to the area, no real gains have ever been realized. The basic reason for the failure of peace talks between Israel and Palestine is that the peacemakers (mainly the United States) primarily feel the pain of those who’ve actually inflicted more pain on the other side.
There’s an unofficial ceasefire between Israel and Hamas these days and Egypt is attempting to broker a peace deal between the two, while the U.S., the European Union and Middle East nations are interested in a long-term peace deal between Israelis and Palestinians.
However, peace comes with justice. Just as Israelis have the right to live peacefully, the same is the right of poor Palestinians also. Neither Israel nor anyone else can achieve any type of peace via force. That’s our human nature. McCain and others know this well, but they also must consider the situation from a Palestinian perspective as well.
Am I celebrating, No, that would be silly cuz I’m American, and not Jewish.
I think Israel is justified in its creation.
As far as them evolving, I’d like them to evolve and grow with the rest of the middle east, although I doubt it because of their past and dogmatic religions.
-Anthony, LA, CA
The three main vectors in Israel:
(1) The secular and civilized.
(2) Religious fundamentalists and fanatics.
(3) Sociopathic exploiters using the religio/ethnic ideology.
The future of Israel depends upon whether the secular and civilized (who are thought to be in the majority) can overcome their disgust with the politicians and take over the government.
My Precious Ros : Today marks the 60th birthday of Israel… And it also marks 60 years of the horrific ordeal of the Palestinian people…. My aunt is a 71 years old Baghdadi lady… She sometimes tells me stories of how Baghdadi Jews used to go on with their lives in Baghdad before they were forcibly deported to the Holy Lands 60 years ago… Most Baghdadi Jews were either goldsmiths or merchants… Baghdadi Jewish goldsmiths were pretty famous of making some best-quality golden jewelry… Baghdadi Jewish merchants were well-know among Baghdadis by being hard-workers and having pretty briliant commercial minds…. Among the very high profile Baghdadi personalities in the twenties and thirties of the 20th century were the Baghdadi Jewish merchant Shaol Shaashua and the Baghdad Jewish merchant Manaheen Daniel… Both of them were pretty rich, pretty famous, and highly influential at that time… Mr Shaashua was pretty famous among Baghdadis because he built the largest and !
the most gorgeous palace in Baghdad at that time on the river Tigris bank…. Shaashua palace hosted temporarly the 1st Hashimi king of Iraq King Faisel the 1st when he 1st arrived to Iraq from Syria… When I was in high school one of my best girlfriends ‘Ruaa’ was originally from the Gaza strip… I do remember hearing her always saying ‘Iraq is my country, but Palestine is my home-land’. With my love. Yours forever, Lubna.
Imran Khan on http://www.wzartv.com has it dead right I think.
On March 20, U.S. Republican presidential candidate John McCain visited Sderot, an Israeli town frequently hit by Palestinian rockets from nearby Gaza Strip. His visit was part of a fact-finding mission to the Middle East, he said.
“The fact is that I come from a border state. If people were rocketing my state, I think the citizens from my state would advocate a very vigorous response.”
There’s absolutely no doubt that these are 100 percent true words, but one can change his words slightly. He said if people were rocketing his state, but what if those people occupied his state and forced its citizens from their homeland? Perhaps his words might have been like the following:
The fact is that others have occupied our state by brutal force, killing many innocent citizens and forcing us from our land, so it’s natural to attempt to regain our land via a very vigorous response.
If a portion of their land was returned to them, but all control remained in the hands of their occupiers, then his words might have been like this:
The fact is that a small portion of our state has been returned to us, virtually without any rights. But because citizens in our state want their full rights and their land back, our occupiers have made our lives miserable by not providing our basic necessities, instead using them as a tool for collective punishment. Surely, this sparks a very vigorous response.
Perhaps the last paragraph best describes the situation in Gaza, particularly Gaza Strip, where 1.5 million live in a territory 25 miles long and six miles wide, making it one of the world’s most densely populated areas.
Unemployment is 80 percent and thousands more have lost their jobs since last June. Approximately 79 percent of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip live in poverty. For example, 80 percent of the population is dependent on food aid, with at least 130,000 Palestinians estimated to be food insecure.
This situation isn’t new, as residents there have been suffering for more than 40 years. Israel pulled its troops and settlers out of the Gaza Strip in 2005, 38 years after capturing the territory in the 1967 Middle East or Six Day War. However, it still controls Gaza Strip’s borders, airspace and coastal waters, in addition to completely fencing it in, essentially making it the world’s largest prison.
Hamas won the 2006 elections and seized control of the territory from the Fatah faction in fighting last June. Since then, Israel has tightened its blockade of the Gaza Strip, worsening the situation there and creating a humanitarian crisis.
What McCain said regards simple human nature that if someone attempts to attack us, we will defend ourselves. Simply pressuring humans isn’t the answer to achieve anything. Everyone knows this, so why do people twist words in their favor and forget the others? McCain and others in the U.S. administration believe that it is Israel’s right to take revenge against rocket attacks on its towns. Let’s suppose their judgment is right.
On February 27, one Israeli was killed in rockets attack on Sderot. It actually was the first of its kind in nine months. Israel immediately launched a military offensive in Gaza, killing 120 Palestinians – mostly civilians – including women and children.