Hello everyone Komla Dumor on World Have Your Say.
CAN WESTERN STYLE DEMOCRACY WORK IN AFRICA?
Zimbabweans will go the polls this Saturday but the outlook for the opposition is bleak in spite of the fact that the country has been in a total economic meltdown for several years.
Incumbent Robert Mugabe has been in power for 28 years since the country’s independence and has violently suppressed opposition to his rule.
Many independent international observers groups have been barred from the country. The elections will only be observed by election monitors from China, Libya Sudan and Iran and Russia.
International media organisations such as the BBC have also been barred from covering the election. The opposition alleges that millions of surplus ballot papers have been printed in advance by the government to rig the poll.
The government has warned that any attempt to protest against the eventual outcome of the election will be put down by the security services.
Unfortunately this scenario has been repeated several times in Africa. With a few exceptions leaders are unwilling to give up their grip on power.
The electoral process is manipulated, the losing party cries foul, violence ensues, international observers state their views and eventually the country goes back to business as usual.
That leads us to the question Can Western Style Democracy Work in Africa?
Earlier this year an editorial in the official Chinese paper the People’s Daily argued that Western Democracy was unsuitable for Africa and was “tyrannically imposed” by colonial rulers who ignored traditional forms of governance.
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If you give me which kind of democracy – there are a few in the west – I would be better able to answer the question.
I’ve lived on the continent and I’ve never met an ordinary African who thought that torture was an African value, that extrajudicial killing was an African value, that theft was an African value. The phrases ‘African democracy’ and ‘African values’ (and Asian as well) are almost always used not by the ordinary people but by dictators and their lackies to smokescreen the indefensible. (ex: The China People’s Daily).
So define ‘African democracy,’ what it means and how it would be different from the systems now in place. Any comments are really pointless until we agree on a common frame of reference.
West & US are rewriting an old timer Greek “Arastodal’s” theory of Democracy as end of the world, without knowing endangement of practical nature Democracy may not be prescribed to each & every nation of the world.
Democracy might work in small countries of Europe like England, France, Netherland & Germany where multiculture society is unmentionable otherwise Democracy create an human desaster like India.
This system of Govt eat out minorities rights, which create sick & welfare pride society in socalled developed Democratic societies of the world.
Without assesmant of a country, nation and group of peoples this system of govt may not be introduced & implimenated as a fashion.
Leadership crisis in Africa has forced societies to bear the pain of dysfunctional governments. WESTERN TYPE democracy cannot help either since solutions to local problems must incorporate traditional systems.
For zimbabweans, voting is a useless process, at least for now.
Kipsang in Bomet, Kenya.
Its quite obvious that western imposed democracy is not suitable for Africa,especially when Sovereign states are made to follow the hegemonic tendencies of the colonial past. Zimbabwe is what it is today,just because it disobeyed the machinations that are suitable to the OCCIDENT.The term “Western Style Democracy” should not be used to generalise situations in all countries.
Togo – KAMPALA
Yes it can, perhaps I have been brainwashed too much by the machine, but the only way for the future is democracy, perhaps western style democracy is not the hypocritical example we need, but we are in the search of a more perfect union of government structure and society.
there should be a clear seperation of church and state, and voting rights should be protected. this is 2008 why have the extremists and the corrupt still have power. we are the techno generation, we will enlighten and wake up the world
“That leads us to the question Can Western Style Democracy Work in Africa?”
Wrong question. Why should it work? After all, Africa isn’t the West. Besides which the hard evidence of more than a generation of post-independence mismangement, corruption and collapse might suggest that ‘democracy’ is a machine that Africans haven’t the inclination or aptitude to maintain in working order.
Right question: what styles of governance are best suited to African states (and isn’t it sensible not to treat Africa as a single country?).
You can’t impose a particular constituional arrangement on a people who aren’t suited to it (Africa isn’t the only place in which Western style democracy hasn’t worked). You can devise a constitution and political arrangements from the actual values, practices and problems of a given people. What African countries require are political arrangements that reflect African circumstances. Ethnic diversity points to ethnic representation (e.g. a tribal senate), rotation of offices, regionalism, multiple centres of power and authority, etc. Habitual electoral corruption – and Africans have shown beyond all doubt that can’t hold fair elections – points to other, non-electoral modes of representation, e.g. hereditary tribal chiefs (who, according to commentator George Ayittey, have never, in any African country, stolen money and deposited it in foreign bank accounts, in sharp contrast to the elected politicians).
Is it any surprise that African polities implode when they attempt to run themselves according to constitutional arrangements devised for ethnically and culturally homogeneous Western peoples with centuries of nationhood behind them? The attempt was so absurd that it deserved to fail.
Part of the problem is that the Western liberals who set the terms of these debates and who constantly try to coerce Africans in the direction of democracy have a similar mindset to Islamic fundamentalists: they want the whole world to look like them and can’t tolerate anything that diverges from their idea of what’s right. Democracy is mere machinery. It’s not an end in itself. If its end of good governance can be achieved through other, non-democratic means, all well and good. We in the West need to stop making a fetish of ‘democracy’ and learn to respect good government regardless of the forms in which it presents itself.
hello bbc
my name is mahamed geeljire citezen of somalilander not somali.as we know somaliland is a democratic country we have chosen multi system parties.200 and the first election held in somaliland december2001 council election.after five months presedential election held,and we also made parlementary election,somaliland is a small country still seeking indepedence,and at this time is not the part of somalia,we gained firt indepedence 26 june 1960 from great britain and after seven days we united somalia,all in all we regained our indepedence 18 may 1991
thank you bbc
from mahamed geeljire
hargeisa somailand
The problem most Africans and the larger world have with democracy is this; what kind of democracy does the western world like other governments to practice? This is so because in some countries the west especially the United States has advocated a brand of democracy and in other nations the democracy being practiced there is quite different.
One begins to wonder if the US wants all nations to be democratized in all ramifications. If so, why aren’t they in favour of Taiwan having a full fledged democracy? Why support a military ruler like Musharraf in Pakistan but cant dialogue with Cuba?
Western style democracy might be functional in the West but in Africa we tend to do our things differently.
Dolapo Aina,
Lagos, Nigeria.
Democracy is not the be all and the end all, as we have been brainwashed to believe. If countries were permitted to work out the government best suited to their culture we would probably get a different and maybe better style of government everywhere. One size does not fit all
Alas, the West still feels the needs to control! As long as the control type of global government prevails, the question being asked will continue to be moot?
Perhaps the real question is “What exactly is a Western democracy?” Let’s agree on that and then ask how it is working where it exists.
Western democracy is far different from Africans,you need to first consider the levels of development I don’t think a continent with 80% living in rural areas can have the same democracy as America or Britain.Democracy is all about what you know of your rights,you won’t fight for the rights you don’t know.Take example of Zimbabwe am sure democracy is at it’s best (Am talking of African Democracy) you don’t need to compare it with America to come up with a reasonable conclusion.In such countries Where every educated man wants to lead, are hard to govern because the ratio of leaders to common man is 1:90.To my conclusion African democracy is very much defferent to the western version of (make me happy and use my happiness for your gains).
Educate the people – teach them what democracy is. If the people want it, the people must get rid of Mugabe and install a leader who speaks for the people. Only then will Zimbabwe have there democracy.
Western style democracy doesn’t even work in the west, how can it possibly work in Africa? Or is this yet another example of flogging off redundant technology to the so called ‘third world’?
Malc
Berlin
Tom in Oregon by E-Mail
I think Africans should strive to do better than the west in democracy. Our US democracy has been corrupted by the likes of Bush/Cheney and the American People have been robbed of their wealth and power. So don’t look to us, look to yourselves and do better than us.
Dcamara by e-mail :
The problem with big ideas, huge concepts like freedom ,democracy etc…is people die for them without really know what they mean. You keep repeating in your show “western democracy” Well if it’s “Western” explain it first till everyone even in the remote little village understands what is, then let’s see if it will work for Africa. Is their democracy in the west? Is democracy a one size fits all product? Finally has Africa ever had a political system before “western democracy” arrived, that could be re-examined? Or merged with” western democracy” where we take the best of both systems?
Arcolina by e-mail
Fela, inventor of Afrobeat from Nigeria, described democracy as demo-crazy, a demonstration of craziness. We know that Western democracy is broken. Our government does not do what we want it to do; it is an instrument of white-supremacist capitalist patriarchy, invented by wealthy white men for wealthy white men. Globally, we need to hear more female voices.
Thank you,
Arcolina Panto
Italian-American Female
Malc – Yes Western style democracy often doesn’t work, but what else is there? Should we all just give up? Are there some other viable options that have a better chance at success.
Nothing will ever work perfectly, but some things might have better chances then others.
-Portland, Oregon
Daniel by e-mail
Democracy has only one meaning: The government of the people, made by the people and for the people.
We have to correct this point “Western democrazy” does not exist.
The story of the so called west in the twenties up to the seventies is even worst compare to what Africans are going
through today. I am sure we can all remember that Hitler is not African.
With the situation of things in my country Nigeria today,i believe that democracy is like a seed with time,
it will grow.
If the house of senate can brought back former finance minister and co to give account of how they
spent our money, then democracy is growing. In the old Nigeria, such case will not rise to the senate level.
Africa needs time and tell all the Western bureaucrat to get out of Africa.
Daniel Lawal from China.
Andrew by e-mail :
Sometimes I feel western style democracy doesn’t work that well in the west, so what hope for nations and societies where this concept is anathema
Andrew
Australia
Emilio by e-mail :
What a joke!
“Election monitors from China, Libya, Sudan, Iran and Russia” — these are the people who will certify the election?
This would be a farce … if it weren’t so pathetic.
Are the monitors there to certify the election or to learn new methods of cheating?
Emilio
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
Maurice by e-mail
Zimbabwe is a failed state headed quick to hell in a luxury Mercedes
Maurice
Please donot try to fool your African brothers and sisters by saying that Western stye Democracy.Can Western style of democracy ever work in these countries?Chad,Cameroon,Gabon,Zimbabwe,South Africa etc.etc.
I’d like to know what was wrong with the way distinct African Kingdoms governed themselves before colonialism.
@ Emilio: you are right to mock a state that appoints “election monitors from China, Libya, Sudan, Iran and Russia.”
But think about the mentality at work here: ban Western observers and appoint observers from those countries that the West has for one reason or another been critical of. The point is to insult and defy the West. It comes back to the pathetic obsession that too many Africans have with Western opinion, Western models, Western fads and fashions. No thought of appointing monitors who will actually help Zimbabweans have a clean and fair election; instead cut off your political nose as if that’s going to spite the whiteman’s face! And recall, many Africans outside Zimbabwe love and admire Robert Mugabe for such childish and self-defeating antics.
An important point to make about ‘Western democracy’ is that it represents the outcome of a political process stretching back over generations. It seems to me sheer madness to attempt to achieve at a stroke what it took Western states centuries to bring to a tolerable degree of effectiveness. If Africans want to imitate Western political structures – which is inadviseable, but Africans seem hypnotised by everything to do with the West – then they should begin by imitating them at the start rather than at the end. This would mean ‘democracies’ with a franchise limited to ‘the rich, the educated and the well-born’, i.e. the most responsible and cautious citizens, and the men and women with the greatest stake in their countries’ welfare, prosperity and stability. Perhaps if steady progress could be made from such a basis universal suffrage might be achieved 100 or 200 years later on. It would make a lot more sense than giving the vote to anyone with two arms, two legs and a head. In fact, it would be a good idea to limit the vote in many Western socities too.
I believe Western Style Democracy can work in Africa, Case and point: Nigeria. Even though it is only a couple of years old, the people have been quick to embrace the idea and have been doing the best they can to take advantage of what democracy has to offer to set things right. Yes it is not as fast as the rest of the world might expect it to be but we are speaking of a country here that has had decades of corrupt leaders. The people are slowly changing their minds and are coming to the realization that they can have a voice and say in what direction the country chooses to go from here.
I agree, the people are to blame in this as the biggest problem we have in africa is that we have people who feel being passive is same as making a point. Nigerians have passively accepted corrupt regime after corrupt regime without standing up to demand change.
Western democracy is taking a real beating in the USA today.
Zimbabwe is not even a cartoon likeness.
Guess what !
whats democracy…. Fela kuti( of blessed memory) once said. ‘DEMO-CRACY’: ‘DEMO’ – ‘demonstration of
‘CRACY’ – ‘Crazziness’
so democracy (being of western)in africa is – demonstration of crazziness by african leaders..
thanx…
ToJeremiah Chienda:Long before the West went to Africa,Africans were governed by African style of democracy without any vote rigging and racism and above all external interference.But regrettably it may seems, some of them were crooked and betrayed and their people were taken away from them.
“Scott Millar March 28, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Malc – Yes Western style democracy often doesn’t work, but what else is there? Should we all just give up? ”
No, but study the meaning and essence of the word and practice it better.
As it is, ‘western style’ is riddled with sleaze and corruption. It’s nothing to be proud of and certainly not to emulate.
Malc
Berlin
In your reports on Zimbabwe during the week ending 29th March, not once the economic sanctions on Zimbabwe was mentioned. The sanctions have been in place for 8 years. It was the UK, under Tony Blair who got his allies in Europe, America, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and elsewhere, including the international financial institutions to impose economic and other sanctions on Zimbabwe because some ‘white’ Zimbabweans had lost their lands. That’s what is responsible for the misery in Zimbabwe!!
Everyone seems to forget that America was once a colony. Everyone seems to forget that America once consisted of 90% rural agriculture. Everyone seems to forget that America was built from a multitude of different cultures.
Democracy works when enough people in a country care about their basic freedoms. While other forms of government can work, and work well, they will never gaurd their people’s freedoms and welfare so well as Democracy will.
Criticize America as you will, and God above knows America has many things to be criticized of, but few other places in the world boast the freedoms and protections Americans have (and take for granted, which will come to bite us in the butt)
So you ask can Western style democracy work in Africa, and I respond, do enough Africans value basic human rights enough to make democracy work? Because you’ve gotta be willing to take up arms to defend the person standing next to you’s right to life, liberty, and happiness – as well as your own – before Democracy will work. And I don’t see that in Africa.
Democracy may not be defined as a fashion & style, infact basic theory is the same for each & every one.
Projection of Democracy along with proposal provide an easy access to the developed countries to dominate the third world countrie’s economy as most of them are rich from god gifted natural resources.
More then style we need Global projection of this theory with a foundation cource.
Do you have Democracy and Western Style Democracy separately? Until up to date of this debate, this is what I believe: In the phrase of Abraham Lincoln, “democracy is a government “of the people, by the people, and for the people.”
In view of this, I am with the optimism that with time and hard work, Democracy NOT the “Western Style Democracy” will work perfectly in all countries of Africa. I think the media, the so-called election observers from the West in recent times have acknowledged that elections in countries such as Tanzania, Benin, Ghana, Liberia, Sierra Leone and so on were and free and fair. If so, of course Democracy is working in some part of Africa and it will inventually triumph in every country of Africa.
In order to achieve this, I would like to propose that the West, the Media and you mention the rest continue to work positively with those African Countries the are willing to promote Democracy.
Colonialism.
That is all one hears if something goes wrong in Africa. Lets face it, corruption ,greed, nepotism, is the down fall of most of the would be democracies. Lets stop blaming our ancestors for the criminal energy, incompetence, and greed of some of the leaders in to-days society.
Admiration is all that one can say for the people that go and vote and hope for a change . Will things change in Zimbabwe?, Only if there is a change of government, and an active opposition. What has happened to the resources in Africa? They were not all taken by the colonists as they left. No they were forwarded by slave labour, and the resulting monies have been. (You all know the answer). People still vote, even though they see the luxury in which there so called leaders live. They still vote when the families of such people Jet set to London-Paris-New York shopping, and the poor hunger. They still vote when they have next to no medical attention, and the ruling classes just jump in an aircraft and consult the best doctors in the whole world.
My heart aches for these people and there trust. Sadly they will probably be disappointed again, and the inflation rate will increase some more. And what’s most sickening, the BRITAINS are at fault..Does anyone know what are the official reserves of Zimbabwe. shall we say in dollars?:
If a land requires financial assistance from any world organisation no matter which, the leaders, their near family should be forced to disclose there total fortunes, except for an average amount decided by the lending agency. It should be disclosed where the children are schooled, where the families obtain medical attention Ect…..So that the people of this country are not blind to what is going on..
Hard stuff in the hope of transparency.
Just a light point, we all have to retire at 65.
John in Germany
Malc Dow March 28, 2008 at 8:07 pm
“Scott Millar March 28, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Malc – Yes Western style democracy often doesn’t work, but what else is there? Should we all just give up? ”
No, but study the meaning and essence of the word and practice it better.
As it is, ‘western style’ is riddled with sleaze and corruption. It’s nothing to be proud of and certainly not to emulate.
Malc
Berlin
Democracy is supposed to be for the benefit of the people.
“Western Democracy” seems to imply elections, but covers a gamut of possibilities from being effectively able to replace the leaders to initiative, referendum and recall. Very few polities in the West dare to have the latter.
The culture of Africa is evidently ethnic and tribal. Their leadership is sufficiently educated to be able to fashion a response to their needs.
One must suspect that the efforts of former colonialists to impose governmental systems is motivated by colonial interests- otherwise, what rationale do they have for intervening?
Hi!
Sadly, developing countries are always at mercy of powerful governments just to make it work like a lab, imposing their systems without bearing in mind that adoption deserves adaption.
😐 Plus, who on earth made them believe democracy’s been totally effective in the western world if, sadly, it’s always been affected by corruption?
As long as they kept in mind the actual meaning of ‘democracy’, perhaps things would work. Yet, it never happens, as they always go after their own interests, and in a continent like Africa, they won’t ever mind taking advantage of it!
The western world looks on, corruption, nepotism, a part of the daily norm for many leaders. It is sickening to see how the normal man or woman on the street is lead to believe that, that is ok, its normal. Are we all blind, or don’t we want to see what is happening?. Just a few have all of the advantages, and the rest the dirt.
Now its time to be careful, Some times even logical thinking people cannot stand the truth. Why are western election observers not allowed, could it be that they cannot be bribed?. A question-not a statement.
However what is wrong with a lending or charitable agency asking what is the financial situation of the leaders of the receiving country. It is laughable, when money is given to appease hunger, and the bathrooms of the leaders have golden taps, and the military budget is very high. No more to be said, except myself and many of my friends do not donate to certain charities any more, you can never be certain where your money will end up, may be as guns?.
For Clarity-there are many charities that work well, do a hell of a lot for the hungry, and sick, they deserve every respect. Bur even they admit its difficult in some African countries to ascertain if monies are correctly used.
Where are the backbones?, all turned to rubber?.
A tired and frustrated
John in Germany.
Democracy for Africa in Western style can never work. Leaders only the word “Democracy” for attention from the West, but actually it doesn’t exist and will never. The West needs to see Democracy in the African style not theirs. It is all about systems; the American style of democracy can not work 100% with the democracy of Zimbabwe. The US is forcing democracy across Africa, while Africa is using the remix version.
It should and must be said, emphatically, when what is discussed is the “possibility” of African Democracy, that there is hidden dictatorship, totalitarianism and globalism in that. “Why?”. Because Africans had monarchy — the origin of which is the demand for a King by the Israelites, and the giving of David to them by God, not the election of David by the Israelites. Africans also practiced leadership by the elderly, wise and moral — which is consistent with Socrates’ Philosopher king. What you call democracy is brigandism and fascism.
Prince Pieray Odor
Lagos, Nigeria
What is ‘Western-style democracy’? The last election in the ‘world’s leading democracy’, i.e., the USA? If that’s democracy, then democracy is the same all over the world!
The biggest challenge we face as Africans is our cultural upbringing that requires us to follow and respect our elders……wherever they lead us! “The future of our country is in you, the youth! Wait your turn”! We see this in political and corporate circles, with the latter making more progress to break the mould. In the 2002 Kenya elections, many people from my parents’ generation told (not advised) us to vote for Kibaki, their age-mate, and not for Uhuru Kenyatta (our age-mate) so that we could ‘learn how to run Kenya’! What they didn’t acknowledge was that Kenya had already had two older Presidents – we had already ‘learnt’ what not to do from them! We were voting for democratic and age change! They voted for a tribal leadership change!
2007 was the same battle! A change of tribal leadership! As the post-election violence flared, I heard many times “You young people! Why can’t you wait your turn?” I was quick to point out that Kibaki and Raila are closer in age than I as a 40-year old will ever be to either of the two leading candidates! And being 40 puts me at the end of ‘youth’ scale! I’m clearly not in the same age-group as my children!
What the African ‘youth’ (may I be so bold as to put myself in that age-bracket) must find a lasting solution for democracy to work in Africa and our elders must accept that they don’t have the monopoly of ideas to chart Africa moving forward, and that handing over is not just acceptance that the ‘youth’ will successfully build and run, but that our elders trust they’ve left a foundation the youth will (and can) build on, based on their elders’ successes and failures.
Savane
Nairobi, Kenya
Need I remind the BBC that Africa is not a monolithic political or social culture. For deomocracy to work (Western or otherwise) a few vital ingredients are necessary: a viable opposition, respect for the rule of law, a free press and developed civil society.
Based on the above criteria, there are a number of African countries, which are gettiing on with the business of democracy without much fanfare. These include Ghana, Senegal, Botswana and Zambia. Even though these countries do not feature much in the African doom-and-gloom scenarios that are replayed to us every day, they are slowly delivering the benefits of modernity to their populations.
Dear African Leaders let tried to adopt the political system that can allow all the candidates and opposition leaders to stand in election without threatening them because they might perform work better than you. I especially encourage President Magbi to continue presiding the Nation.
and Thanks
Uh folks democracy has no west, east north or south, it is the idea of one man one vote, in this time one person. It is a system of goerning the goes back to the Greeks, to not realize this is just letting your self have an easy excuse for when the government collapses or becomes a dictatorship. The only people who are to blame are the citzens of a nation wether they acted incompetently or who was elected went bad. A democratic nation is dependent on the intelligence of its citzens and they are to blame for the succses or failure of the government.
Yes i believe the western stle of democracy is workable in Africa if only the EUROPEANS would stop neo-colonialism in Africa and allow Africans to practice true democracy.
Godpower,
Rivers State,
Nigeria
Belove Africa leaders is time to give chance to a pure democratic system in your country,let all your subjects be happy with your ideas, donot be a dectetor.Serve your country with pure love of God.Stop changing your constitution to last longer than the normal mandate, if you take immunity after your mandate then you most be a criminal,let the Cameroonian President know that if he is not judge now,God will not allow him to go unpunish.
Bamenda,
Cameroon.