Iain here and good morning from Television Centre in West London.
Should obese people on planes pay more for their ticklet? One Australian doctor thinks so..
“If you are going to charge for excess baggage, then charge fat people for excess weight”
Dr John Tickell, an Australian expert in nutrition and weight-control, believes obese passengers should be liable for a penalty.
Is he right? Would a fat tax work?
Also like many of you I expect, I watched yesterday as people across the world remembered their war dead. According to the US Department of Veteran Affairs
“Americans are blessed to live in a Nation of democracy and freedom. For these blessings we thank our veterans”.
Well it seems thanking the veterans is one thing.. Housing them is quite another. It’s a statistic that some might say shames America: military veterans make up one in four of all the homeless people in the United States.
Figures are also bad in here in the UK.I’ve read statistics as high as 1 in 8 of homeless in the UK is a former soldier..
What is going on here.. don’t our veterans deserve better?
She wrote an ode to beheading – now she faces a jail term..
“You’ll feel the knife hit the food pipe. But don’t stop. Continue with all your might”
Samina Malik who dubbed herself the “Lyrical Terrorist” has became the first Muslim woman in Britain to be found guilty of terrorism offences. Samina Malik, who worked air-side at Heathrow airport, posted a series of poems on websites across the internet about killing non-believers, pursuing martyrdom and raising children to be holy fighters.
Police chiefs, politicians and football administrators in Italy are meeting today to discuss the weekend’s violence across the country which flared up after a policeman accidentally shot dead a football fan in his car. One listener has already emailed us here to say ‘Violence in Italian football occurs every weekend.” So is Italian foootball out of control
Foreign ministers from Commonwealth countries are meeting in London later today to discuss possible sanctions against Pakistan. How can the Pakistan crisis be resolved?
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I have had to take quite a few jumper planes over to hard to reach Islands. Planes owned by government contractors and the like. When getting on these planes they weigh your luggage and then they weigh you with all of your carry-ons. My trips are paid for usually, so I don’t know if they charge people after a certain weight is exceeded. However, one thing is true. Airlines are in the business of moving cargo. Many of them move the “cargo” of people. Just like when you ship a heavy or oversized package you expect to pay more. Why would that not be true when shipping yourself. Flight costs can be measured directly by the pound of cargo. There is a whole science to putting the right amount of fuel in for each trip. I would recommend all airlines set a base price for “x” amount of pounds and then charge a price for anything that exceeds that.
Kind of funny about the sad state of things, but Disneyland has closed the “It’s a Small World” ride because they have to modify it because the riders are so much heavier than when the ride started they have been causing the boats to sink. Sad state of affairs.
If airlines don’t charge more for heavy people then that would be rather unfair, because they will thus charge the fuel surcharge on everyone else.
The comment about homelessness in the US is a little dishonest. Many of the homeless people you see on the streets are mentally ill. Many of them are veterans. We are a free society and don’t institutionalize people involuntarily unless they are a threat to their safety or that of others. I live in the Washington, DC area, and there are LOTS of homeless people, and virtually everyone you see is visually mentally disturbed. They talk to themselves constantly, they sometimes yell and scream profanities, but usually bother nobody except for asking for money. I’m pretty sure some are veterans. I always see this one older man, probably in his 50s, who wears camouflage every day. In a free society, you don’t involuntarily lock up people. So what can be done? Lock them up, force medications on them? There’s no winning. If you do that, then we aren’t free. If we don’t we then have veterans living on the streets..
Talk about straw men auguments, Steve. It’s not simply a case of either letting vets live rough on the streets or locking them up. And to imply that’s the case is at best naieve and at worst, a cop out. Like movies, the real world’s problems are no longer just in black & white, there are myriads of shades.
Steve touches upon the often missed point. The full cost of war is rarely realized by those who wage it. That is why it is so important to be absolutely certain that it is your only remaining option. You are going to produce some pretty messed up individuals as a result of war. This is especially true when you are involved in wars where you can’t tell your friends from your enemies. This is also why if “mistakes (are) made” people need to be held accountable.
War produces fathers who are abusive, (before you jump, not everyone but a large percentage.) It produce physical and mental problems not seen immediately or with the naked eye. Just the heightened state of awareness produces a greater susceptibility to addictions. The soldiers look to regain that endorphin high that they lived with their entire deployment.
Then there are the children of these soldiers. And sometimes the children’s children. What will be the real cost of the Vietnam war may never be known. It is certainly the responsibility of the government to care for these brave soldiers. I would say the price of home care should easily match the price to wage the war. The catch 22 there is that The US has produced a country of whiners who want a million dollars for a spilt hot cup of coffee. How do you know when people are really messed up because of the war?
So Rhona, what do you suggest doing? Locking them all up?
I can only imagine the psychological effects a “fat tax” will have on people that suffer from depression or hereditary disorders that lead to their conditions. Isn’t it bad enough that most societies deride and ridicule obese people? Why would should we want to adopt punishment in lieu of education? Logical priorities seem to be slipping away more and more.
Ken in Cleveland
There is a wider context to the suggested ‘Fat Tax, namely the consistent attacks on liberty, and the corresponding growth in state power, in the name of one of several political fetishes that seem to obsess Western societies. These are race and gender equality, gay rights, public health and safety, children’s welfare, and the environment. The five pillars of modern Left-Liberalism.
Taken together they imply a massive and never-ending programme of government regulation of all aspects of our lives in order to achieve goals that, however commendable, there is no reason or evidence to think can always be attained. The only certain outcome is that pursuing these objectives through the state’s coercive power will lead to a more centralised government and a less free people.
No government should ever introduce legislation that marks out a specific group for discriminatory treatment, whether that treatment be harmful or beneficial to the group in question. If there is an argument for using the tax system to encourage people to look after their health then it’s an argument that applies to every conceivable illness or condition, not just obsesity. But there is a more powerful argument for me which is that government should reflect the wishes of electors, and should effect those wishes in laws that apply to all citizens. Anything else makes government a master where it should be a servant, with an activist agenda to impose the will of a few politicians on millions of voters. Tyranny with a democratic mask.
Individual freedom means choice about one’s health. If I want to eat myself into an early grave that’s no concern of government. If government wants to control my eating habits that should be the concern of every citizen who believes in limited government, private life, and personal freedom. No fat tax.
Re the Lyrical Terrorist: surely it will come as a surprise to no one that Islam is simply incompatible with our values and way of life in the West? And let’s be clear, this is about Islam. This woman was not ‘alientated’ or following an ‘extremist’ version of the religion, or any of the 1001 other excuses that are trotted out on occasions like this. She was an orthodox muslim expressing a heart-felt desire to murder innocent non-muslims because the contents of her holy book (and it can be cited, chapter and verse), the example of her prophet (see the hadiths concerning Muhammed), and the Jihadist traditions of her co-religionists (refer to any competent history of Islam) all agree in thinking slaughter of non-muslims a pious and worthy act for a muslim. She worked alongside an airport but could just as easily have worked in one. The only way to preserve the safety of the public is to recognise that muslims cannot be regarded as ordinary citizens, with the appropriate loyalty and allegiance to the state. They form a class apart – loyal only to fellow muslims in the world-wide ‘umma’ – and should be treated accordingly. Unfortunately, but unavoidably, this means that it should be legal to discriminate on the basis of religion in appointing people to positions that could be used to endanger public safety.
Ken, if you eat less and exercise more you’ll lose weight. Unless someone has a “glandular” problem, which is less than 1% of cases of obese people, it is their responsibility they are fat. They won’t make the effort, quit making them into victims, people will only get fatter from your mindset, because they will think “i’m a victim, thus there’s nothing I can do”. What am I going to do tonight after work? I’m going to walk the 4 miles home. That’s why I’m not obese. If I didn’t do that, i would have gone to the gym. If you’re depressed, working out HELPS. I’m depressed now nafter a breakup. Exercise is the BEST thing I could be doing. So stop making excuses for people.
VictorK, you didn’t think your comments through. Government has a responsibility to make rules that discriminate or benefit a specific group. Would you want blind people to be able to get driver’s liceneses? Of course not. But it would be allowed based upon what you wrote. This is private sector anyways, and airlines should be able to charge more for overweight people. Their excess weight means that’s less baggage I can bring on the airplane.
In the last five years some 25,000 veterans returning from Iraq with injuries ranging from brain trauma to missing limbs to post traumatic stress disorder have been denied disability payments and treatment because of Veterans Dept. doctors diagnosing them as having “pre-existing” conditions, despite being given a clean bill of health when they enlisted.
Watching Cheney lay a wreath at the tomb of the Unknown Soldier makes me sick. No one in this administration deserves the privilige of honoring those who have died on our behalf.
John D. Anthony
Salem, Oregon
You talk of fat tax ,some times we need to first fully understand why fat people are
fat, because he is based in a developed country then the reason is simple consuming too much fat then that same person can afford to pay for how ever much tax that is imposed. may some one from like Africa where being obis is inherited then is justified but ironicaly these are the people who realy travel.I think we need to understand that there no tax that has ever failed aperson as long as you accept it then you are willing to pay.The doctor got it wrong this time, there should be some reasoning in the assertions. Thank WHYS.
Okay, Steve. Let’s play it your over simplistic black & white – one or the other, way. In answer to your question, my answer is no.
Not very helpful, is it? Doesn’t come even close to solving any problems at all, does it.
Steve: I maintain that government should not discriminate for or against any group of citizens, but would take from your comment the need to distinguish two forms of discrimination.
I’m sure that drivers’ licenses in the US are issued on a similar basis to licenses in the UK: to those who have demonstrated ‘vehicular competence’ by passing a test of some kind. This is discrimination but not in the sense that I’m writing against: a license discriminates between the competent and the incompetent, but on grounds that both groups can reasonably accept (e.g. the undesirability of having blind, near-blind, dangerous or otherwise incapable drivers on the road). Someone who is blind is not really discriminated against: they were simply never in the running, since the test of fitness for a license itself usually has minimum standards of eligibility (age, citizenship, physical capacity, etc), which even those whom it excludes can accept as being reasonable and for the common good.
There is another kind of discrimination that government engages in when it favours one group at the expense of another, or penalises one section of its loyal citizens. This discrimination is easily recognised because, unlike the first kind, it produces discontent and opposition. A good example would be all varieties of affirmative action programmes.
Once again, a person with a weight problem is made the pariah of the world. Used to be it was lepers. It seems people love to hate someone who doesn’t fit their idea of the ideal human body. Things that would be shameful if it was based on skin color is ok if based on body size. Harassement, comments, laws – how about we remember these are human beings with feelings – not just skins to admire or hate? Every law against weight makes it worse. Oh yes, and wasn’t it airlines that fired a “flight attendant” if they didn’t meet their criteria for body size? Over a size 6, gained 5 pounds – you’re out of a job.
Many don’t understand that weight isn’t always a fact of over-eating. Many cancer patients gain weight due to the drugs they must take – do we pin little yellow tags on people so we can pinpoint them, or was this banned with the holoaust? My daughter was over-weight by 50 lbs – she was harrassed to the point she didn’t want to leave the house. She ate less than me (and lord forbid I’m 10 pounds over weight due to my cancer), now she has an eating disorder in a desperate attempt to fit society’s ultra skinny desires. She always ate healthy, moderately and biked 25 miles a day plus walked 10, and still the weight was on. So, people threw things at her when she was walking, comments were made to her face and loudly because of her size. Frankly, I’m really beginning to dislike the sheeple.
Linda, people cannot control their skin color, they can control their weight. Linda, the law of physics applies to everyone. If you consume 2000 calories per day, but burn 2200 calories, you will lose weight, 200 calories worth of weight every day. Unless you’re somehow located in an area, such as a blackhole, where we don’t understand the physics, then one simply needs more exercise. I’m sorry if the truth isn’t pleasant. If you eat less, and exercise more, you lose weight.
Wrong steve, obviously you don’t get it. It’s not a simple case of eating too much or the wrong thing, there’s a lot of other factors involved. Did you know a body builder is considered fat by many insurance companies. What do you say to a person who eats 500 cal a day, excercies to burn 4000 and still doesn’t lose weight? The bottom line is – who gives another person the right to say you should weigh this amount or you are open to extra taxes, humiliation etc. because you don’t fit my description of ideal? If airlines want to demand more because a person takes 2 seats – that I have no problem with. Someone who’s skinny should pay for that extra seat they take up with their “carry on” luggage also. Maybe the airlines should quit trying to cram as many people as possible onto one plane in the name of company profits.
I am not sure it is possible to eat 500 calories, exercise to burn 4000 and still not loose weight. Hormones in the body do not produce fat cells out of the air.
Yep – it’s possible, but when you get on a plane – do you bring your doctors “permission slip” with you and make airlines the new health industry? The problem is – if you allow this, what will be the next thing they will regulate? Can’t be over 5’6″ – the whole thing sounds like a way for airlines to increase their profits. Frankly – I think drinking alcoholic beverages should be banned. Why should I be forced to smell the noxious fumes from your alcohol breath? And while we’re at it, maybe regulate deodorant use in case if offends someone, some of those perfumes out their positively make me nauseated…….. it goes on.
Linda, to the person who says they eat 500 calories a day and burns 5000 calories but doesn’t lose weight, I say to them “why didn’t you report the other food you ate?” clearly they are eating more than they report or don’t burn as much as they say. What you’ve described violates the laws of physics. I know many overweight people who say they barely eat and try to exercise, and it always turns out they confess to me they pig out all of the time, have food hidden everywhere, and don’t do a minimum of exercise. They always say they’ll begin next week. The only person I know who was like this that actually lose weight, who was probably a good 100 lbs overweight, he lost weight because he got a job requiring lots physical effort and he lost 40 lbs after several months.
Is obesity a problem in countries where there is famine and starvation? I just did an image search for “famine” and there wasn’t one single person who was obsessed.
Steve is right. Food is a form of energy, like gasoline to your car. only you never what to turn your engine off just because you are not using it. so just sitting in perfect Zen, breathing, beating your hear, some of us thinking, and swallowing you use between 1200 and 1500 calories a day. Since we know the first law of thermodynamics says “energy can not be created or destroyed, just transferred.” that energy has to be coming from somewhere. If we can find something that creates energy from nothing, the worlds problems will be nearly solved. Or man wouldn’t it be great if we could manipulate the genes of everybody who lived in a food shorted area to gain weight on just 500 calories a day!!?
For a better explanation and to learn a little about global warming in the process I would recommend that you check out Global Warming- Not Just Science It’s Also a Diet Plan (http://logicandpolitics.blogspot.com/2007/06/global-warming-not-just-science-its.html)
Dwight, the people who say they eat a little and exercise, but lose weight aren’t being honest about how many calories they consume. I’ve seen them claim it, then see them not count the big macs and ice cream because it was a “reward”. The laws of physics applies to everyone.
Veterans-
If we sent them to war we can send them to college.
GI Bill YES, fat cat excuses NO.